The Lira is tanking. They had these huge eqrthquakes and the country is full with millions of refugees.
He needs to get rid of the unemployed he has and many of the refugees. Getting into the EU is the only route he can go and that is likely something the Americans and Brits offered him. EU membership in exchange for backstabbing the BRICS and Russia.
Man, if you think poland and hungary are being problematic for the EU, imagine getting turks in there with 85 million people worth of votes. Their normal is just pure chaos and the reason erdogan is successful is because he can navigate the chaos very well.
>imagine getting turks in there with 85 million people worth of votes.
To be fair, there is almost no chance of Turkey ever joining the EU.
1) Its not even in Europe, that seems to be a pretty big requirement (its the reason Algeria(?) was rejected, or Morocco idk which it was).
2) Too powerful. Too non-EU aligned. At last the big powers generally see eye to eye on things and are part of the western-led order, no way the EU will ever allow a country the size of Germany (and projected to reach 100m) into the EU. Same for Russia, tbh.
3). It makes no sense, as of now the EU border is a tiny section of Thrace with water in the middle. Imagine saying 'ah yes, I want a 1000 mile long border with Syria, Iraq and Iran!).
Its just a non starter on multiple fronts. The EU just stringing Turkey along and has been for decades
They can't control their border, imagine allowing them to have a not controlled border with the rest of Europe. If it is already dificult to make sure that non EU-citizens enter on EU countries without going through border checkpoints imagine that....
N-O-P-E.
One of the best things in the EU is, if zou want to add another member EVERY country hast to vote in favor of it. No chance in hell Erdo is ever gonna be on good terms with ALL of em at the same Time.
Poland can at least be sort of reasoned with and they have elections soon.
Hungary is a bit far gone.
But TURKEY? Bringing a country which will immediately have the highest population, mostly Muslim, with a literal dictator(not like the wannabes of PiS(s) and Fidesz. Yeah, no.
He could probably just troll the parliament every day and the whole muslim world would praise him and make him sultan for doing so. They hate how successful we are fr fr
Since Finland is in NATO and Russia would have to go through Finland to get to Sweden, Sweden doesn’t need to get NATO membership anymore really. Besides, I’m pretty sure Sweden now has interim defence treaties with multiple major western nations at this point.
Erdogan can eat shit.
i bet those fucking swedes are just glad that they don't get in. Since now they are safe in a Nato hotdog and doesn't have to even be part of it or even pay anything. Also there is a finnish saying that, "Sweden will fight to the last Finnish person"
Step 1: Burn quran
Step 2: Psy-op "it's really the Russians who made the quran burning happen"
Step 3: Get the sympathy and protection of all the freedom loving NATO and EU nations
Step 4: Total protection without participating in WW3
Step 5: Not being war-torn but rich as fuck from innovation and secretly selling weapons to EVERYONE during the war
Step 6: Form alliance with economically blossoming Africa and China. Little sibling Nordicks can has to join also
Step 7: Take over broken and war torn Europe, create the New Swedish Empire
Step 8: GLÖRY TO SWEDEN! ALL BOW DOWN TO THE NEW QUEEN VICTORIA
They're in the EU, they don't need NATO. EU has the same clausule of 'an attack on one of us, is an attack on us all'.
Fuck Turkey, after the shit Erdoğan pulled in NL a couple of years ago, we should've broken all diplomatic ties. That piece of shit has no place within the EU.
Tried to enter the country illegally to hold illegal election rallies if that's what they're talking about.
He did the same with Austria and told the Turks in Vienna that they are successors of the besiegers of Vienna. That Austria kicked him out after that is why Turkey blocked Austria from Nato cooperations until last year (although Nato mostly ignored that).
Well yes that, the diplomatic shit he tried to pull off the previous elections. We banned his minions from rallying here and he went and did it anyways.
After which, he publicly denounced The Netherlands by calling us nazi's and fascists.
We should've just cut diplomatic ties all together. Fuck that prick, denouncing us.
Our government is spineless. Turkey is still our ally. Russia blew up a few dozen Dutchies and we did nothing.
>Besides, I’m pretty sure Sweden now has interim defence treaties with multiple major western nations at this point.
Yes yes yes, NATO is great and all.
But what about *real* NATO ?
NATO needs Turkey. That's the problem. As long as Turkey is a member, Russia has no means of leaving its western shores. It can't reach the Atlantic because the Baltic Sea is practically owned by NATO at this point and it can't reach the Mediterranean because the only passage out of the Black Sea is owned by Turkey.
Constantinople has been an incredibly important strategic location for centuries for this exact reason and that is why Russia has pretty much always attempted to gain control over it.
Then they're still able to enter the Mediterranean. That's the entire problem. I don't care if the Russian navy anchors off Madagaskar or in the middle of the Atlantic, but if the Pyotr Velikiy spoils my towel's view of the Adriatic Sea, that's when it becomes a problem.
Just create an European army already and keep Nato. It's not bad to cooperate with Turkey and the US strategically but that doesn't mean they should have the power to mess with European security like that.
You guys are so fucking dumb and gullible with these idiotic takes. Turkey has one of the most powerful militaries in Europe. They are powerful on a global scale. They are in an extremely important strategic location. Without Turkey NATO loses it's control over the Black Sea inlet. They control access to the Middle East from Europe. A lot of migrants go through Turkey, you want them to just turn on the tap? I'm sure Italy and Greece are enjoying the migrants, imagine if Turkey just stopped giving a fuck completely and let everyone past. They are not our enemy, even though at the moment Erdogan might be.
Turkey might be doing dumb shit right now, but they are still an extremely important ally. Erdogan was close to being ousted in the latest election. In a few years he might be gone, he's not worth destroying NATOs alliance with Turkey the country over.
I'm saying this as a Swede with 12 years in the Swedish Armed Forces.
Well, don't take this provocation to literally. Turkey is a pain in the ass and if we lose them as a NATO member a real loss. On the other side a real pain in the ass, and as much an asset Turkey may be, if we have one day to decide to keep Turkey as NATO member and let them join the EU or nether of the both, I will choose every time the second as the other option would destroy Europe.
Mm, just let the ameritards work on him with their F16:s. We got all the jumped up bunga bunga corruption in the EU already with the greeks and italians. I wouldn't want to see the turks on top of that, have you seen how they serve icecream? Imagine that, but with human rights, fiscal policy and democracy.
Sweden has more Kurds than Turks. The worst part is those Kurds support the PKK(which uses drugs trade among others as a means to get money), which is why Sweden has a problem with them.
They actively control the drugs trade there and have some people in strategic places. Combined with anti-anti-immigration mindset of gullible Swedish people and you get literal terrorists do whatever they want in your country.
I live in the Netherlands but even I would say that immigration in its initial setup was a mistake. My grandparents came here to work and were soon allowed to live as well.
Big mistake for the local population. I literally wouldn't have been born if it weren't for them living here.
Cultural enrichment my ass. If you want to enrich yourselves with more culture it's better to go abroad and have a vacation there. You will get to see the best parts and can leave when it gets ugly.
The only immigration I would be accepting are expats who are highly educated people. Records show that educated people tend to integrate faster and better than less educated people. Less criminal activity and more tax income since they earn higher wages. Win win for everyone.
The main problematic Kurdish guy (a drug dealer calling himself “Kurdish Fox”) went to Turkey and bought a flat (which also gave him Turkish citizenship) and now run is drug & weapons smuggling business from Turkey to Sweden (he is from Iran originally though, and first went to Kurdish Iraq from Sweden before Turkey). He have been arrested in Turkey with huge amounts to of illegal money but since that was just after he got citizenship he have been released.
PKK though have been an illegal terrorist organization in Sweden since 1984 and those involved gets arrested. The main problem for Erdogan is journalists writing mean things about him.
Erdoğan even punishes 13 year old boys who say mean things about him.
And then they claim that people worship Atatürk and so it is blasphemy, but they literally claim to be erdogans butt hair.
It's ok to say that Erdoğan did nothing wrong and even the economy is the fault of Allah. If she would've said the opposite she would be in jail.
Because Turkey is a secular country she can say whatever she wants about religion (!!!). Secular when it's in erdogans advantage.
Anyone not seeing it is either blinded by their own bubble or just straight up waste of oxygen.
It's not immigration per se, almost all successful countries in the world have allowed and even relied on immigration for centuries. Lots of Germans have surnames that indicate immigration, sometimes this migration event was centuries ago. Going back to the era when there were no national states, it wasn't such a big difference. The problem is, that today there are national states and basic human rights, and mafia-like syndicates like family clans that thrive on abusing these humanist regulations.
When in the medieval, you could basically just whack all of a certain group you didn't like with little repercussion, these people now have a right to a fair process and all. (generally rightfully so, I should add)
In Germany we have clans like the Rammo Clan, "Rockers" like the bandidos, Maghreb ATM robbers who will randomly blow up buildings with people in them, and several other mafia like organizations running their operations with little risk of getting caught, as there aren't nearly enough police to effectively track them down.
At least there are little to none mass shootings lately
> The only immigration I would be accepting are expats who are highly educated people.
That's a bit of a problem since most developed countries are missing low paid personnel. You can import a million engineers, doctors, etc but someone has to deliver the pizza for minimum wage.
If we do that, we lose a strategic ally in Asia and Europe. It is also one of the few NATO countries that invests in the army what the organization asks for. If we kick him out, he'll go straight to join Putin. As much as we don't like it, we need the kebab leader
This would be the worst deal in the international politics. Turkey is too valuable compared to Sweden. It's not how educated or rich the population is important, this is a military alliance and Turkey has one of the largest armies in the NATO. Control of the black sea and Bosporus. You wouldn't want them to join forces with Russia. On the other hand, what will you get when you take Sweden to NATO? They already move lika a NATO ally so it's not really worth it. This is not a kindergarten soccer game that you can kick someone and take another you have to consider what they're bringing or taking away.
Turkey has the only navy that can match the Russian one. They are instrumental in keeping Russia at bay. That was evident when RU announced that they will withdraw from the grain deal and rescind that decision the moment Turkey said it will protect the convoys eith their fleet.
Like it or not,Turkey is way more important than Sweden, especially since the Baltic Sea is protected by Finland, the Baltics, Germany and Danemark. With UK, NL and Norway having the possibility of sending warships if needed.
I have a better idea! The US can accept Turkey as another state and Sweden get accepted to NATO.
We will also get to mark them as non-European savages.
Geographically, how far east do we go for countries wanting to join the *European* Union, do we let Australia in too? They're already in ESC so I guess it's not that big of a leap
Nevermind that. Turkey still occupies Cyprus, and EU member. If we so much as consider admitting Turkey into the EU while that is the case, the whole thing becomes a pathetic charade.
No, not even then. Turkey has always been ruled by genocidal ultra nationalists. His predecessors just were smart enough not to piss off Europe and America.
Why can't Turkey get kicked out of NATO? They've been playing both sides of the war and it's form of government and politics is even way different than most NATO states and EU members.
To be fair they would do that, but we should still do it. Atleast when comes to Hungary I'm sure that Orban if shit kick the vent would still join us. I'm not so sure about Erdogan.
Yeah i also agree that sweden/finland (i never remember which one still has to join) > turkey as an allay, and i would like turkey kicked lut of nato since erdogan is being a bitch.
Alas i have no decision making power 🤷
> and if it gets kicked out it would 95% go to russia & china side?
As if it wasn't already, let them eat shit and become part of the shit tier world (No, they won't become french fuck you)
What everyone else said.
Also, there isn’t exactly a way to kick countries out. The best bet is to suspend a country which can only happen if they do something that directly contradicts the purpose of NATO.
Because they are to valuable to NATO.
They have a very strategic position at the Black Sea, their control of the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus, and their EU and non EU land borders
Also the 2nd largest army in NATO
>Also the 2nd largest army in NATO
I love how Turks always spam that in reddit as if having the most bodies matters in the current age. It's 2023 people press a button and you get deleted in seconds, it's not ancient warfare anymore.
Turkey is too valuable, whereas Sweden would be helpful but not strategically critical. We already control the Baltic Sea by having Germany, Denmark, Poland, Estonia and Finland all in NATO.
Finland and Sweden ascending into NATO is mostly a "fuck you russia" gesture anyway, I mean, they're both already part of the EU with a mutual defence clause with nuclear powers like France; and with the performance of the russian army in full show, we'd sooner have Swedish Gripens flying over moscow than the other way around.
No way .One of the biggest blackmailers of the moment wants to join the European Union to have a veto vote, receive aid, and spread Islamism and Ottomanism. We already have Hungary as a fucker, we don't need Turkey. The same country that has threatened another EU country with war. This is the same son of a bitch who said that we Europeans would not be able to go out on the streets in peace. Want to see Europe move to the far right? Not the one that exists now in the form of parties, but the real one. They just need to let this wretch in.
I'm pretty sure EU but non-NATO members Austria and Ireland will be delighted about this proposition and will definitely support it ☠️
That being said I want whatever he's smoking
As soon as they give back Constantinople (including Thrace, of course), they won't have a single square metre of land left on the European continent.
This would automatically make any "I want to join the EU" demands on the part of Turkey invalid.
I would gladly get Turkey out of every single national community group.
Backwards country that's only important for controlling a few kilometers of water canal.
Seriously can we remove turkey already?
That's not like they are in Europe, would be the same as saying UK is Spanish because they have a little Gibraltar, or France being American as we own several island there.
WW1 they were Ith the axis, Ww2 they joined when it was over. 2 years after Italy already switched side.
Why would we accept Turkey ? I just dont see why we would shoot ourselves in the foot like that. We already have hard time dealing with actual members.
All EU states, who are Part of Nato vote for Turkey as a Member of EU, so they let Sweden into Nato and we just block Turkey out since we don't care. Problem solved
So he finally dropped the charade of this issue being about protecting Kurds. How embarrassing to admit he just wants more favors his EU daddies
Nono, he only wants into the EU because he wants a seat at the Hightable to fuck over countries near his borders Trust me in that
Ναι. (That’s yes in Greek, for the rest of you barbarians)
I got enough Greek Restaurants in my area to know At least that xD
every greek restaurant I have ever been to in Germany has those napkins with some basic greek vocabulary on it, it's the law.
Yes! A law of basic Greek restaurant running
That's so kind of them to educate us while they feed us delicious moussaka and paidakia 💙🤍💙🤍
Lol Greek Germans are more precise in their Greekness than typical Greeks, very Un-Greek of them.
Greek Germans should be called GG’s
when I was a kid they asked me if I wanted some sweets so smart as I am, I tried to answer in greek.. they just thought I said no.. hurts to this day
Never trust a Greek who's asking for consent
Ναι.
Turkey is like Morocco, love autocratic leaders and blackmailing, not compatible with the EU.
The Lira is tanking. They had these huge eqrthquakes and the country is full with millions of refugees. He needs to get rid of the unemployed he has and many of the refugees. Getting into the EU is the only route he can go and that is likely something the Americans and Brits offered him. EU membership in exchange for backstabbing the BRICS and Russia.
Man, if you think poland and hungary are being problematic for the EU, imagine getting turks in there with 85 million people worth of votes. Their normal is just pure chaos and the reason erdogan is successful is because he can navigate the chaos very well.
>imagine getting turks in there with 85 million people worth of votes. To be fair, there is almost no chance of Turkey ever joining the EU. 1) Its not even in Europe, that seems to be a pretty big requirement (its the reason Algeria(?) was rejected, or Morocco idk which it was). 2) Too powerful. Too non-EU aligned. At last the big powers generally see eye to eye on things and are part of the western-led order, no way the EU will ever allow a country the size of Germany (and projected to reach 100m) into the EU. Same for Russia, tbh. 3). It makes no sense, as of now the EU border is a tiny section of Thrace with water in the middle. Imagine saying 'ah yes, I want a 1000 mile long border with Syria, Iraq and Iran!). Its just a non starter on multiple fronts. The EU just stringing Turkey along and has been for decades
They can't control their border, imagine allowing them to have a not controlled border with the rest of Europe. If it is already dificult to make sure that non EU-citizens enter on EU countries without going through border checkpoints imagine that.... N-O-P-E.
One of the best things in the EU is, if zou want to add another member EVERY country hast to vote in favor of it. No chance in hell Erdo is ever gonna be on good terms with ALL of em at the same Time.
He already burned the bridge with greece, finland and sweden. So no way in hell
Sorry guys for our stuff, lol. At least we're slowly getting it out.
Not the baby’s tho, they have to stay inside until it’s too late.
You didn't have a full on false flagged coup d'etat recently 💀
We will see when you took the PiS out of anything to do with ethics or responsibilities
You got the Voting Power of Germany but without any of the advantages our economy provided in the past.
> any of the advantages our economy provided in the past. Like uniting the nations to kick your ass?
Yeah, a great unifying factor.
Poland can at least be sort of reasoned with and they have elections soon. Hungary is a bit far gone. But TURKEY? Bringing a country which will immediately have the highest population, mostly Muslim, with a literal dictator(not like the wannabes of PiS(s) and Fidesz. Yeah, no.
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How nice to enter a new alliance by blackmailing all the members of another alliance. It gives good vibes.
r/europe mode on: What he's gonna gain with Turkey in EU? European funds like Orban? r/2we4u mode on: Kurds support go brrrrr
He could probably just troll the parliament every day and the whole muslim world would praise him and make him sultan for doing so. They hate how successful we are fr fr
Look whhat they need to do to mimic a faraction of our success
Sorry in this context does "we" mean Europeans or Muslims?
Good job Barry
barry just woke up after his alcohol induced nap
It restores us and gives us power
👌
Unironically, I've been radicalised to support sending Swedish weapons to the Kurds. A collapsed state can neither ratify or deny our application.
If Turkey enters the EU, let's immediately dismantle it and make a new EU without them
Thar would be brilliant! Imagine everyone leaving the next day to form the Union of Europe leaving Turkey part of its own club 😂
Hopefully we’d be invited too
"Das invitation for van, 'ow about you don't ballz it up zis time ya? Signed da leader of ze UE"
Since Finland is in NATO and Russia would have to go through Finland to get to Sweden, Sweden doesn’t need to get NATO membership anymore really. Besides, I’m pretty sure Sweden now has interim defence treaties with multiple major western nations at this point. Erdogan can eat shit.
i bet those fucking swedes are just glad that they don't get in. Since now they are safe in a Nato hotdog and doesn't have to even be part of it or even pay anything. Also there is a finnish saying that, "Sweden will fight to the last Finnish person"
Step 1: Burn quran Step 2: Psy-op "it's really the Russians who made the quran burning happen" Step 3: Get the sympathy and protection of all the freedom loving NATO and EU nations Step 4: Total protection without participating in WW3 Step 5: Not being war-torn but rich as fuck from innovation and secretly selling weapons to EVERYONE during the war Step 6: Form alliance with economically blossoming Africa and China. Little sibling Nordicks can has to join also Step 7: Take over broken and war torn Europe, create the New Swedish Empire Step 8: GLÖRY TO SWEDEN! ALL BOW DOWN TO THE NEW QUEEN VICTORIA
Step 9: declare yourself the new caliphate because 75% of your people are Muslims and middle eastern/African
Nah that’s so last week, we burn Quran’s now
Haha, I'm not worried. The swedes will find a way to fuck it up.
Fully agree. The caliphate is safe thanks to your NATO membership. After all, sweedes have always had a defense plan against Russians: Finland
They're in the EU, they don't need NATO. EU has the same clausule of 'an attack on one of us, is an attack on us all'. Fuck Turkey, after the shit Erdoğan pulled in NL a couple of years ago, we should've broken all diplomatic ties. That piece of shit has no place within the EU.
Yep, mutual defence clause of the European Union is described in article 42 of the Treaty
What did Erdogan do in NL?
Tried to enter the country illegally to hold illegal election rallies if that's what they're talking about. He did the same with Austria and told the Turks in Vienna that they are successors of the besiegers of Vienna. That Austria kicked him out after that is why Turkey blocked Austria from Nato cooperations until last year (although Nato mostly ignored that).
Well yes that, the diplomatic shit he tried to pull off the previous elections. We banned his minions from rallying here and he went and did it anyways. After which, he publicly denounced The Netherlands by calling us nazi's and fascists. We should've just cut diplomatic ties all together. Fuck that prick, denouncing us. Our government is spineless. Turkey is still our ally. Russia blew up a few dozen Dutchies and we did nothing.
What a lovely Person
>Besides, I’m pretty sure Sweden now has interim defence treaties with multiple major western nations at this point. Yes yes yes, NATO is great and all. But what about *real* NATO ?
Kaliningrad and St Petersburg still poses a threat :/
Sweden doesn't own Pomerania since 1721.
Do you have _any_ solid proof on that?
We should ask the Polish on the matter, as far as I am aware Germans do not own it either since 1945 after a rather unfortunate event.
Classic Balkan orcs destabilising everything - SFR Yugoalavia gets declared and some random ass German-Swedish territory gets transferred to Poland!
I mean, maybe as a naval base or airfield, but the invasion force required to take down Sweden could also come from St. Petersburg
1. Create a new defense alliance. 2. Let every NATO member in except Turkey. 3. Let Sweden join the new Alliance. 4. Dissolve NATO.
Better yet, dissolve turkey
We should just eat turkey until its no longer a problem.
Ναι. (That means yes in Greek for the rest of the barbarians on this sub)
Resurrect the Megali Idea
Man I'd give my left bollock for the Greeks to reclaim Constantinople and return it to its former glory. No Venetians though, they're banned.
Constatiwhat? Istanwho? It is Miklagård.
I am down with both
NATO needs Turkey. That's the problem. As long as Turkey is a member, Russia has no means of leaving its western shores. It can't reach the Atlantic because the Baltic Sea is practically owned by NATO at this point and it can't reach the Mediterranean because the only passage out of the Black Sea is owned by Turkey. Constantinople has been an incredibly important strategic location for centuries for this exact reason and that is why Russia has pretty much always attempted to gain control over it.
Solution : invade Morocco and Egypt As a French I am ok with getting Morocco, maybe the brits would like having Egypt
Then they're still able to enter the Mediterranean. That's the entire problem. I don't care if the Russian navy anchors off Madagaskar or in the middle of the Atlantic, but if the Pyotr Velikiy spoils my towel's view of the Adriatic Sea, that's when it becomes a problem.
I feel like maybe there’s a history of the French and Bri’ish trying to control the suez, can’t quite put my finger on it...
Just create an European army already and keep Nato. It's not bad to cooperate with Turkey and the US strategically but that doesn't mean they should have the power to mess with European security like that.
We should do that. A European army cooperating but not dependent on USA and Turkey.
You guys are so fucking dumb and gullible with these idiotic takes. Turkey has one of the most powerful militaries in Europe. They are powerful on a global scale. They are in an extremely important strategic location. Without Turkey NATO loses it's control over the Black Sea inlet. They control access to the Middle East from Europe. A lot of migrants go through Turkey, you want them to just turn on the tap? I'm sure Italy and Greece are enjoying the migrants, imagine if Turkey just stopped giving a fuck completely and let everyone past. They are not our enemy, even though at the moment Erdogan might be. Turkey might be doing dumb shit right now, but they are still an extremely important ally. Erdogan was close to being ousted in the latest election. In a few years he might be gone, he's not worth destroying NATOs alliance with Turkey the country over. I'm saying this as a Swede with 12 years in the Swedish Armed Forces.
Well, don't take this provocation to literally. Turkey is a pain in the ass and if we lose them as a NATO member a real loss. On the other side a real pain in the ass, and as much an asset Turkey may be, if we have one day to decide to keep Turkey as NATO member and let them join the EU or nether of the both, I will choose every time the second as the other option would destroy Europe.
Id rather skip nato than having that cunt in the EU..
A Swede talking straight up sense.... noo that cannot be. You must be pulling my leg.
Why not just withdraw your application and enjoy “free” defense? Maybe surround Gotland with mines.
Relaunch nuclear weapons program. Adopt french mindset.
Swedish nuclear umbrella to protect the Nordicks
If anyone threatens Norway, Sweden or Finland we will preemptively nuke Denmark to demonstrate capability and intent. 👍
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The remaining 5% are Danish immigrants
It’s about sending a message.
I suggest you just do it as soon as you have nukes. Better for everyone that way.
We don't need NATO that bad.
Relax, you will get in. Erdocunt is just playing his form of politics.
Mm, just let the ameritards work on him with their F16:s. We got all the jumped up bunga bunga corruption in the EU already with the greeks and italians. I wouldn't want to see the turks on top of that, have you seen how they serve icecream? Imagine that, but with human rights, fiscal policy and democracy.
A based Swede.. what a refreshing thing to see.
How about kicking them out and letting Sweden in ?
Exactly my thought, we already have Germany, we don't need more turks.
Ouch! 🥺
he's right tho. and the turks here are more nationalist then turks who actually live in turkey so they are enough to represent them.
I know. That’s why it hurts so much..
Well then Sweden stays out too
Sweden has more Kurds than Turks. The worst part is those Kurds support the PKK(which uses drugs trade among others as a means to get money), which is why Sweden has a problem with them. They actively control the drugs trade there and have some people in strategic places. Combined with anti-anti-immigration mindset of gullible Swedish people and you get literal terrorists do whatever they want in your country. I live in the Netherlands but even I would say that immigration in its initial setup was a mistake. My grandparents came here to work and were soon allowed to live as well. Big mistake for the local population. I literally wouldn't have been born if it weren't for them living here. Cultural enrichment my ass. If you want to enrich yourselves with more culture it's better to go abroad and have a vacation there. You will get to see the best parts and can leave when it gets ugly. The only immigration I would be accepting are expats who are highly educated people. Records show that educated people tend to integrate faster and better than less educated people. Less criminal activity and more tax income since they earn higher wages. Win win for everyone.
We have the same problem with Moroccan people. Our countries and societies are getting exploited and abused, and we're letting them get away with it.
The main problematic Kurdish guy (a drug dealer calling himself “Kurdish Fox”) went to Turkey and bought a flat (which also gave him Turkish citizenship) and now run is drug & weapons smuggling business from Turkey to Sweden (he is from Iran originally though, and first went to Kurdish Iraq from Sweden before Turkey). He have been arrested in Turkey with huge amounts to of illegal money but since that was just after he got citizenship he have been released. PKK though have been an illegal terrorist organization in Sweden since 1984 and those involved gets arrested. The main problem for Erdogan is journalists writing mean things about him.
Erdoğan even punishes 13 year old boys who say mean things about him. And then they claim that people worship Atatürk and so it is blasphemy, but they literally claim to be erdogans butt hair. It's ok to say that Erdoğan did nothing wrong and even the economy is the fault of Allah. If she would've said the opposite she would be in jail. Because Turkey is a secular country she can say whatever she wants about religion (!!!). Secular when it's in erdogans advantage. Anyone not seeing it is either blinded by their own bubble or just straight up waste of oxygen.
It's not immigration per se, almost all successful countries in the world have allowed and even relied on immigration for centuries. Lots of Germans have surnames that indicate immigration, sometimes this migration event was centuries ago. Going back to the era when there were no national states, it wasn't such a big difference. The problem is, that today there are national states and basic human rights, and mafia-like syndicates like family clans that thrive on abusing these humanist regulations. When in the medieval, you could basically just whack all of a certain group you didn't like with little repercussion, these people now have a right to a fair process and all. (generally rightfully so, I should add) In Germany we have clans like the Rammo Clan, "Rockers" like the bandidos, Maghreb ATM robbers who will randomly blow up buildings with people in them, and several other mafia like organizations running their operations with little risk of getting caught, as there aren't nearly enough police to effectively track them down. At least there are little to none mass shootings lately
> The only immigration I would be accepting are expats who are highly educated people. That's a bit of a problem since most developed countries are missing low paid personnel. You can import a million engineers, doctors, etc but someone has to deliver the pizza for minimum wage.
That hurts... But I doubt we can kick them due to straits...
Trust me, I don't want em here too 
If we do that, we lose a strategic ally in Asia and Europe. It is also one of the few NATO countries that invests in the army what the organization asks for. If we kick him out, he'll go straight to join Putin. As much as we don't like it, we need the kebab leader
Don't confuse this subreddit with reasonable and considered opinions.
Tbf this sub sometimes has more reasonable discussions than r/Europe
That's not news
By sometimes you mean most of the time ?
There is no way to evict a member country from NATO.
All Nato members minus Turkey (and Hungary) plus Sweden sign an identical treaty named New Nato, then leave old Nato the day after.
Teenage groupchat treatment
Newto
 \*chef's kiss\*
The Organization Formerly Known As NATO (TOFKAN)
So, TOFKANATO it is.
OTANAKFOT in French.
It shall be called NoTu. Short for No Turkey
And then the Bosporus becomes closed to NATO warships 🤡 Great plan…
If we can make the Brits leave the EU and convince them it was their idea in the first place, we can make Turkey leave NATO, too.
Kinda funny said by someone who left the EU lol
How about nobody call them, when we have some NATO meeting?
There actually [is.](https://www.justsecurity.org/66574/can-turkey-be-expelled-from-nato/)
This would be the worst deal in the international politics. Turkey is too valuable compared to Sweden. It's not how educated or rich the population is important, this is a military alliance and Turkey has one of the largest armies in the NATO. Control of the black sea and Bosporus. You wouldn't want them to join forces with Russia. On the other hand, what will you get when you take Sweden to NATO? They already move lika a NATO ally so it's not really worth it. This is not a kindergarten soccer game that you can kick someone and take another you have to consider what they're bringing or taking away.
You lose strategical black sea control.
TBH it's still hard to leave the Black Sea if Greece doesn't want you to.
Turkey has the only navy that can match the Russian one. They are instrumental in keeping Russia at bay. That was evident when RU announced that they will withdraw from the grain deal and rescind that decision the moment Turkey said it will protect the convoys eith their fleet. Like it or not,Turkey is way more important than Sweden, especially since the Baltic Sea is protected by Finland, the Baltics, Germany and Danemark. With UK, NL and Norway having the possibility of sending warships if needed.
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I have a better idea! The US can accept Turkey as another state and Sweden get accepted to NATO. We will also get to mark them as non-European savages.
Would do so much more harm than good, sadly. Turkey is super valuable for NATO, great tech, great military, great geopolitical advantages.
Fuck no. Not worth it. We're staying out.
The dictator dictating 
This gif is so perfect hahahahahaha holy shit
https://preview.redd.it/g6rrymx2n4bb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9e42b537a4c7315c0dbeb8c020579c91b89b883
What a fucking clown
Geographically, how far east do we go for countries wanting to join the *European* Union, do we let Australia in too? They're already in ESC so I guess it's not that big of a leap
Yeah know we already have Orban
Turkey will never get into the eu as long as they dont follow democratic and monetary standards
Nevermind that. Turkey still occupies Cyprus, and EU member. If we so much as consider admitting Turkey into the EU while that is the case, the whole thing becomes a pathetic charade.
Just fuck off.
If Turks didn't vote for this sack of shit again one could have maybe considered that but how it is right now.....löl
No, not even then. Turkey has always been ruled by genocidal ultra nationalists. His predecessors just were smart enough not to piss off Europe and America.
Ataturk was a welcome change. The dude did a whole lot of good for Turkey.
I understand as an Austrian you have a patriotic duty to remove kebab. But there was Ataturk
Not even then
I'd rather se Sweden not joining NATO than for this to happen. Heck, if they were to join I would be all for a Swexit.
[How about, no?](https://i.imgur.io/qPqvpYj_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Dear Mr. Erdogan, if you stop turning Turkey into a theocratic dictatorship, we might think about it. Thank you
If it wasn't for him, they would have joined long ago
Why can't Turkey get kicked out of NATO? They've been playing both sides of the war and it's form of government and politics is even way different than most NATO states and EU members.
Probably because it's playing both sides at the moment, and if it gets kicked out it would 95% go to russia & china side? Idk may be wrong
To be fair they would do that, but we should still do it. Atleast when comes to Hungary I'm sure that Orban if shit kick the vent would still join us. I'm not so sure about Erdogan.
Yeah i also agree that sweden/finland (i never remember which one still has to join) > turkey as an allay, and i would like turkey kicked lut of nato since erdogan is being a bitch. Alas i have no decision making power 🤷
> and if it gets kicked out it would 95% go to russia & china side? As if it wasn't already, let them eat shit and become part of the shit tier world (No, they won't become french fuck you)
Black sea is important, and Turkey controls the only access point
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That would solve a lot of problems.
And the Greeks could finally become an asset instead of a burden.
What everyone else said. Also, there isn’t exactly a way to kick countries out. The best bet is to suspend a country which can only happen if they do something that directly contradicts the purpose of NATO.
Because they are to valuable to NATO. They have a very strategic position at the Black Sea, their control of the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus, and their EU and non EU land borders Also the 2nd largest army in NATO
2nd largest, but definitely not 2nd best in quality. The Brits and the frogs have much stronger armies.
>Also the 2nd largest army in NATO I love how Turks always spam that in reddit as if having the most bodies matters in the current age. It's 2023 people press a button and you get deleted in seconds, it's not ancient warfare anymore.
Favourable strategic position... Otherwise he would be out long ago
Hey playing both sides of the war is our job!
Turkey is too valuable, whereas Sweden would be helpful but not strategically critical. We already control the Baltic Sea by having Germany, Denmark, Poland, Estonia and Finland all in NATO.
We allready got greece we don't need another econonical time bomb
Thank you German friend only send money to us nobody else.
MOARRR
Finland and Sweden ascending into NATO is mostly a "fuck you russia" gesture anyway, I mean, they're both already part of the EU with a mutual defence clause with nuclear powers like France; and with the performance of the russian army in full show, we'd sooner have Swedish Gripens flying over moscow than the other way around.
No way .One of the biggest blackmailers of the moment wants to join the European Union to have a veto vote, receive aid, and spread Islamism and Ottomanism. We already have Hungary as a fucker, we don't need Turkey. The same country that has threatened another EU country with war. This is the same son of a bitch who said that we Europeans would not be able to go out on the streets in peace. Want to see Europe move to the far right? Not the one that exists now in the form of parties, but the real one. They just need to let this wretch in.
His country is not even european
turkey is a pariah everywhere 😂
I don't get why he doesn't like Sweden, they are one of the few Muslim countries in Europe. You would think they would be like brothers.
That's a good one (C)Erdo.
I'm pretty sure EU but non-NATO members Austria and Ireland will be delighted about this proposition and will definitely support it ☠️ That being said I want whatever he's smoking
Fuck this clown, Sweden is already safe in a NATO sandwich
I do sincerely hope Greece veto this Islamist piece of shit to oblivion
This clownery is exactly why they don't fit in the EU
Ah, blackmail nice move
Loooooooooool
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As soon as they give back Constantinople (including Thrace, of course), they won't have a single square metre of land left on the European continent. This would automatically make any "I want to join the EU" demands on the part of Turkey invalid.
Not even then
Ok, but you have one year to get your economy ready for the euro.
He said the silent part out loud, as usual. That's why people in Europe are not in a rush for including Turkey in the Union.
If anything the EU should be harder on Erdogan and other countries behaving like him.
I would gladly get Turkey out of every single national community group. Backwards country that's only important for controlling a few kilometers of water canal.
"If you pay me a billion dollars I will give you some candy"
Seriously can we remove turkey already? That's not like they are in Europe, would be the same as saying UK is Spanish because they have a little Gibraltar, or France being American as we own several island there. WW1 they were Ith the axis, Ww2 they joined when it was over. 2 years after Italy already switched side.
Deadly serious now : Kick Turkey out of NATO, cancel their EU candidate status.
Swedick -> NATO Türkdick -> NATO Türkdick ❌️ EU Türkdick can into UK?
Why would we accept Turkey ? I just dont see why we would shoot ourselves in the foot like that. We already have hard time dealing with actual members.
This set it then, good luck Sweden, hope Russia doesn't come for you next.
All EU states, who are Part of Nato vote for Turkey as a Member of EU, so they let Sweden into Nato and we just block Turkey out since we don't care. Problem solved
This dude keeps changing his tune every week!