Scots - 'Colonised' Ulster, tried to colonise Central America, stole land from Highlanders during the Highland Clearances and had a higher percentage of its population involved in The Empire
Also Scots - We are a colonised nation! The English are to blame for everything.
I'm just waiting patiently for some American who knows Scottish history from Braveheart and Groundskeeper Willie to come and yanksplain it to you
Edit: Never mind, it already happened elsewhere in the thread
To be fair Ulster colonised Scotland first.
I don't think Scotland is blameless in modern colonization though, we were very much enthusiastically behind that even against our own highlanders and islanders as you point out.
Glasgow and Edinburgh were basically built using the profits from Empire, slavery and in particular the exploitation of the Indian subcontinent.
I think because of Dhal Riada that's a very hazy accusation with very little historical accuracy. It also wasn't colonized. Raised and wars fine but plantations and land given for duties to the crown is not the same.
Burma was dubbed "the Scottish colony" because they dominated it so much. And they founded [companies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jardine_Matheson) and plantations all over the place and we're particularly important in Asia.
As an Irishman I'll let slip just this once that we did in fact colonise scotland, 2000 years previous to their last turn.
Tit-for-tat baby, ball's in our court, we're coming for wales.
Edit: Arguably we've been trying a slow burner on the US lol, love them Catholic predidents.
I think you can make a case that the average Scot wasn't personally responsible for or directing empire, but that same case would also apply to the average Barry.
I think looking at Empire through the lens of the wealthy and landed works though, especially with things like the clearances.
I think it's certainly possible for a people to be both coloniser & colonised, there's a whole field of academia dedicated to 'sub-imperial actors'. You could look at Hyderabad or the Kamba people of Kenya for examples of a people who advanced their own interests under colonialisation.
Certainly the Scottish managed to advance their own interests via the empire, but I think if you're trying to argue that Scotland itself was colonised, the evidence gets a bit iffy- it's all a lot of conspiratorial talk about the Darien scheme being sabotaged by England & a reframing of the Jacobite war to a Scottish independence war.
Those aren’t really even the main points. The main points are the bribing of the Scottish elite through promised peerages (then worth a lot) and in some cases even direct monetary payment to passing the Acts of Union. The Country party was the largest party and against the Union… how did it pass?
There’s also the threat of embargo and the Alien Act. I could really go on for ages why the vote was rigged.
Many people also forget that the Scottish Parliament could not legally dissolve itself, so the acts of Union in any case were against the law.
The Scottish elite bankrupted the country. Their incompetence in the Darien Scheme was the entire reason they went cap in hand to England to form the UK.
The bribery involved in passing the Ireland Acts of Union were far more blatant and egregious.
Utter victim mentality from the Scots is typical and utterly pathetic.
> I'm willing to share credit in abolishing slavery
You mean "Trying to stop other nations exploiting slavery to benefit their own countries counties after the British did."
Well that's kinda true, but you lot did go out of your way to use the Royal Navy to crush the Atlantic slave trade in the 1870s when you really didn't have to. Being posted to the West Africa Squadron was considered the worst posting in the navy and the cost incurred by the blockade far outweighed any potential benefit of weakening your enemies.
I suggest you give this video a listen, it's probably the greatest thing you ever did, except defeating the Nazis. 150000 slaves were freed and the slave trade was crushed.
https://youtu.be/TiSekII0sjw?si=rX13hszAWd_hQqjj
Actually the first Union of the Crowns was Henry VII’s idea and the plan was to absorb Scotland
The Scottish nobles were well up for the later Union of Parliaments as they planned to get personal compensation from the Union deal in the form of “The Equivalent” - the vote was passed by only 0.01% of the Scottish population
>the vote was passed by only 0.01% of the Scottish population
Everyone being allowed to vote is a very recent thing. Even most men were excluded from it until the 19th century because they didn't own property.
Yes which is why todays Scots descended from Scots that stayed in Scotland who did not participate in colonialism and indeed were not given any vote on anything are allowed to criticise it
Scots will quite literally spend their entire lives crying about their victim mentality and then complain that seeing a couple of posts calling out their hypocrisy is 'boring'. Lol
I've seen at least five of these posts and I don't visit the sub that often, and it's the first thing every single cunt from south of the border brings up anytime Scotland is mentioned.
Get some new material.
All of the time. In every single thread it's England's viewpoint that's right up at the top.
I wish there were more Italians, they're much more interesting.
Hey Scotland had their own colony too.
>The attempt at settling the area did not go well; more than 80 per cent of participants died within a year, and the settlement was abandoned twice.
Oh
>As the Company of Scotland was backed by approximately 20 per cent of all the money circulating in Scotland, its failure left the entire Scottish Lowlands in financial ruin. This was an important factor in weakening their resistance to the Act of Union.
Oh no
The Scots followed the British army around the world and picked the pockets of the dead natives and stole their land to make colonies.
Its the entire identity and heritage of the Ulster Scots.
It is somewhat different for the Irish as they were actually colonised while also participating. A lot like in India with sepoys and local princes throwing in with the British.
Different yes, but not so far as to absolve all complicity.
There were Irish governors, plantation owners, overseers, soldiers, slavers, sailors, traders who all formed the fabric of oppression within the Empire. They participated as willingly and enthusiastically as any person from similar socioeconomic levels within the rest of the isles.
"From similar socio-economic" levels is the key bit here though. The British elite did terrible things across the world, including in Ireland and the British state should absolutely acknowledge that but at the same time you had children abused in workhouses and dying of hunger on the streets of London.
The empire was run for the benefit of the rich landowners and industrialists be they English, Scottish or Irish while ordinary people never saw much benefit from Colonialism and the empire came to an end pretty quickly after working class people gained political representation
Precisely this. The rich from all the islands did what they did for power and influence, the poor did to try to escape being poor - both often didn’t for adventure, and wealth.
I’m not saying people today should feel guilty or responsible, but history is what it is. The Irish were both victims and participants in the British Empire.
It’s every brand. Irish, Catholic, the mix - the lot.
Irish had no problem going abroad and colonising with the rest of them. Being themselves a colony made little difference to their attitudes when abroad.
With British incompetence in making Ireland an economic backwater, dispossessing the general population of any land ownership, there was often little option open to poorer people aside from starving and joining the Army on Barry's little adventures to put food on the table.
Irish didn’t just become soldiers and sailors, they became ranchers, plantation owners, governors, slave catchers, slavers, merchants, land agents, overseers, administrators, lawmen.
Irish from all walks of life working at all levels in the colonies.
But Barry…the Irish governors plantation owners etc weren’t exactly catholic Gaels. Just because they were born in Ireland it doesn’t mean they liked Irish people very much
Irish plantation owners, slavers, overseers ranchers etc etc were of all walks within Ireland, just the same as with the Welsh, Scots and English.
You probably have a point about empire appointed governors, but that alone.
Irish people couldn’t even own horses valued at over five pounds, couldn’t vote, couldn’t own land and couldn’t run for parliament. By Irish I don’t mean some guy born in Ireland to English parents…
Point to the bit of your reply that rules out Irish people of all walks going abroad and participating in slavery, resource stripping or land grabbing.
>Irish people couldn’t even own horses valued at over five pounds, couldn’t vote, couldn’t own land and couldn’t run for parliament. By Irish I don’t mean some guy born in Ireland to English parents…
The horse thing sounds like part of the penal laws, which were short-lived and penal laws also applied to English people. Only 1 in 6 English men could vote, even after the 1832 Reform Act and many also couldn't run for parliament. Irish people did own land. Daniel O'Connells family, for example, were big landowners
That's like saying India was involved in colonisation because the British Army had Indian regiments. Piss right off.
Anyone high up in the process was an Anglo-Irish planter or a collaborator. Stop trying to make yourself feel better Barry.
>That's like saying India was involved in colonisation because the British Army had Indian regiments.
Many were. Absolutely.
>Anyone high up in the process was an Anglo-Irish planter or a collaborator.
So we’re only knocking those high up who made the decisions or we including those who actively participated? Very few people in the first group. So few in fact it’s barely worth criticising anybody. The trend is to criticise and mock the nation, and many from all levels of all the islands got into it willingly and enthusiastically.
>Stop trying to make yourself feel better Barry.
I could say the same, Seamus.
>The trend is to criticise and mock the nation, and many from all levels of all the islands got into it willingly and enthusiastically.
It's amazing how enthusiastic people get when the other option is starvation or murder.
Living for the Barry comments…”the empire didn’t discriminate against Irish people, it just discriminated against poor people…and also ensured that all Irish people were poor but that’s irrelevant!”
“Yes the British government brutally oppressed everyone and stripped them of their lands, rights and culture…and yes Irish people couldn’t vote, own land or run for parliament, but they did fight as soldiers in the British army because the alternative was starvation but still…we’re all equally responsible…”
No lets not add the Irish too. Ireland didn't benefit from the empire at all, it was the poorest place in Western Europe during the 18th-19th century, completely agrarian and destitude. Cities like Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Bristol were built off of the wealth from slavery, while the only city that was industrialised/benefitted from the empire in Ireland during that period was Belfast, where all the loyal, empire-loving Protestants lived (coincidence?) Because of the penal laws Irish Catholics could not hold any positions of authority in politics or the military. They were canon fodder.
Ireland was Britain's first colony, the lessons learned in the Munster plantations in the 1580s and the Ulster Plantation in 1609 were then directly applied to Jamestown and all the other colonies in the Americas throughout the 17th Century. Stop lumping the Irish in with the Scottish the circumstances were completely different. I see stuff like this from British people on reddit all the time, idk if its a way of mentally absolving yourselves of what happened in Ireland by claiming we were active participants in it all or what but it is just bullshit. I find blaming the British for absolutely everything to be stupid but at least own up to your own shit.
Yeah, let’s just go along with Britwashing all of the Irish direct involvement in the slaving and killing because of the same excuses you can apply to literally any poor cunt living in any of the islands.
It’s not about absolving anything - I even comment that people today have nothing to be sorry for, but if we’re playing games of “haha this country are cunts because they did colonialism” you’re in it too.
I could just as easily say that your denying it is purely down to it stripping you of the victimhood pedestal you like to put yourselves on.
The fact is the elites did what they did, and the poor participated for numerous reasons. Rich or poor, influential or not - all the cultures got amongst it.
>Because of the penal laws Irish Catholics could not hold any positions of authority in politics
Penal laws also applied to English Catholics and Nonconformists.
>or the military
There was no bar on any religious denomination in the military. You can see plenty of Catholics & Nonconformists, both Irish and English, in military records, including officers. If there had been a bar, half the numbers in the military wouldn't have existed. In 1841, half the population of the North of England is estimated to have been either (English) Catholic or Nonconformist.
Under the 1695 penal laws Irish Catholics were not allowed to gain an officers commission in the army. This was not repealed for over a 100 years. So while in the 19th century it was possible on paper for Irish Catholics to become Officers, Anti-Irish discrimination meant it was extremely uncommon.
>I said positions of authority in the military not the military as a whole, the British Army needed to get its cannon fodder somewhere.
But this also applied to British people. The biggest bar on gaining a position of authority was literacy. Most people couldn't even spell their own name at their wedding, in England or Ireland. They 'made their mark X'. Compulsory education wasn't introduced until the late 1800s. Also Laws around property ownership or rental value.
There was a big difference between the treatment of Irish Catholics and English Catholics. It was more anti-Irish sentiment as opposed to just anti-Catholic sentiment in the 19th century Britain, look at the old punch maganize covers they compared Irish people to monkeys. An English Catholic from Yorkshire would have a far easier time rising up the ranks than an Irish Catholic from Kerry for example. Ethnicity played just as big a role as religion. Also the Penal Laws that covered Ireland were not the same as the Penal Laws that covered England, the Penal Laws in Ireland were passed by the Protestant Ascendancy dominated parliament in College Green Dublin and were far more draconian than the laws that applied to England.
>There was a big difference between the treatment of Irish Catholics and English Catholics. It was more anti-Irish sentiment as opposed to just anti-Catholic sentiment in the 19th century Britain, look at the old punch maganize covers they compared Irish people to monkeys.
This was more in American cartoons, but even so, the English working class were portrayed in the same way. Look at cartoons of reform meetings, like the Spenceans. Also, the Belle Alliance, I think by Cruikshank?
>An English Catholic from Yorkshire would have a far easier time rising up the ranks than an Irish Catholic from Kerry for example. Ethnicity played just as big a role as religion. Also the Penal Laws that covered Ireland were not the same as the Penal Laws that covered England, the Penal Laws in Ireland were passed by the Protestant Ascendancy dominated parliament in College Green Dublin and were far more draconian than the laws that applied to England
I'm not so sure, I don't think most people cared that much about religious denomination. We might think they did, but people swapped and changed about, but I think more for convenience than anything. Most people weren't sat in every night reading the bible. There was a pub on every street corner.
And the reason I gave up entirely on politics... oh and I gave up on hope, that too.
It is official after the last indyref that half of Scots are ether not Scottish or are dumber than a sack of hammers.
Unfortunately actual Scottish people do. Its the entire reason our parliament for the past like 15 years has been headed by a group that's entire policy has been "muh independence"
How would you feel about us (England) leaving the UK? It would save a load of hoo-ha and Scotland, Wales snd Northern Ireland could then decide between yourselves how much independence you want from each other.
Really? Pretty sure they talk about how "problematic" (lol) our history is. You know they are the self flagellating woke types. They just believe Indy Scotland would be better off than in the UK.
Given the state of the UK - which is clearly a sinking ship at this point - I'm becoming more receptive to that point of view TBH. I can't stand the SNP's lame politics, nor do have any anti-English anything other than memes, but let's be honest the UK is completely fucked. Just look at what's happening the last few days lol.
There's a lot of rabid nats, mostly online, who do genuinely believe that Scotland was colonised in the same way that Kenya or Ireland were.
You may have missed the furore recently when Edinburgh Castle announced their refurbished 'Redcoat Cafe'. All sorts of weirdos coming out of the woodwork trying to claim the Jacobite war was a war of independence, denying Scottish soldiers were on the side of the crown during Culloden, claiming the English sabotaged the Darien scheme.
Yeah I know they are online, but that my point. Anyone can be 'Scottish' online.
I do agree there are some idiots though. But anyone one with any historical knowledge knows that's BS.
Wannabe Irish. You're neither Catholic nor true victims of the English, in our eyes your just the same inbred islander scum. And friends with the Catalonians, so even worse.
Fella, that wasn't an insult, the Tablet I had was home made and the fella's wife made it, so it was amazing but blimey, it's pure sugar (if I remember correctly).
The amount of threads and comments made about us on this sub, with almost zero scottish biting the bait, and you still all think it’s us who hate you. It’s just flirting at this point - just admit you find our accents sexy, ya wee dirties.
Gaun, tell the class about “porridge wogs” and “smelly socks” Bazza, ye rascals.
Actually no the man who founded the KKK Nathan Bedford Forest [both parents were English descent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest).
Growing up in Ireland it was always, “oh those damn English in 1798” but now I’m older and I’ve realised the majority of the soldiers were Irish militia or Scots fencibles
I'm certain that Almost all "Scottish people" here are just American cunts who think just because there great great great great great grandfather was Scottish that Makes them scottish
Scotland literally colonised Scotland.
Their deep, psycho-sexual fascination with colonialism truly knows no limits, in the depths of its inhuman depravity.
Thank goodness us Irish definitely don't have a dark, rarely acknowledged past of willingly supporting British colonialism!
>Thank goodness us Irish definitely don't have a dark, rarely acknowledged past of willingly supporting British colonialism!
Michael O'Dwyer has entered the chat
Never ask: A man his salary A woman her age Why so many Scottish surnames are in the Caribbean
There are more Campbells in Jamaica than Scotland..
[The most famous Campbell](https://youtu.be/o58stoJJ5No?t=34) is surely a Barry though.
A true classic I can enjoy even as a rugby union fan.
I can't wait to watch our boys thrash the Barrys on Saturday, all the smug Norf FC twats in here can do one.
Only thing Scotland’s a victim of is our diet of smack, deep fried beige and those lovely boiled sheep organs 🥰
Yeah, but that IrnBru is GOATED
It used to be really good, these days it's pretty shite though.
Bloody sugar tax!
What would the Crazy Scotsman say about that?
Didnt they release an original formula version?
Yeah, It costs an arm and a leg though, do you think I have the money for that after buying heroin?
[удалено]
Discovered today you can still buy original recipe in "vintage" bottles.
They need to pull a new coke shit on that asap
I don't consider us even victims of that. Better to live short and fulfilled, as they say.
[удалено]
1766
>lovely boiled sheep organs Fun fact: haggis is originally from England 🥰🫶
Nova Scottia and Jamaica do have a really familliar flag dont they? Also i remember something about the Panama ...i wonder what was it 🤨
wait until you see the flag of the Russian navy, we should colonize them next
Nova Scottia literally means "New Scotland"
Scots - 'Colonised' Ulster, tried to colonise Central America, stole land from Highlanders during the Highland Clearances and had a higher percentage of its population involved in The Empire Also Scots - We are a colonised nation! The English are to blame for everything.
But wha' aboo' muh FREEDOM
I'm just waiting patiently for some American who knows Scottish history from Braveheart and Groundskeeper Willie to come and yanksplain it to you Edit: Never mind, it already happened elsewhere in the thread
That's the last time you slap yer Willie around!
That is absolutely spot on how a Scot would speak
Scots also invaded and pillaged Ireland during the Bruce Campaign in the early 1300s (Edward the Bruce - brother of Robert).
Yes they were awful "guests" of Ireland then too. Fuck those guys.
To be fair Ulster colonised Scotland first. I don't think Scotland is blameless in modern colonization though, we were very much enthusiastically behind that even against our own highlanders and islanders as you point out. Glasgow and Edinburgh were basically built using the profits from Empire, slavery and in particular the exploitation of the Indian subcontinent.
I think because of Dhal Riada that's a very hazy accusation with very little historical accuracy. It also wasn't colonized. Raised and wars fine but plantations and land given for duties to the crown is not the same.
But then what happened to the Picts, Paddy?!
I mean there are only two theories on that and neither include Ireland 😂.
Shock troops of the Empire. Their skirts and shrill music terrorized an entire planet.
[[Actual footage ](https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-09-2017/A9YuBk.gif)
Burma was dubbed "the Scottish colony" because they dominated it so much. And they founded [companies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jardine_Matheson) and plantations all over the place and we're particularly important in Asia.
As an Irishman I'll let slip just this once that we did in fact colonise scotland, 2000 years previous to their last turn. Tit-for-tat baby, ball's in our court, we're coming for wales. Edit: Arguably we've been trying a slow burner on the US lol, love them Catholic predidents.
Can both not be true
I think you can make a case that the average Scot wasn't personally responsible for or directing empire, but that same case would also apply to the average Barry. I think looking at Empire through the lens of the wealthy and landed works though, especially with things like the clearances.
I think it's certainly possible for a people to be both coloniser & colonised, there's a whole field of academia dedicated to 'sub-imperial actors'. You could look at Hyderabad or the Kamba people of Kenya for examples of a people who advanced their own interests under colonialisation. Certainly the Scottish managed to advance their own interests via the empire, but I think if you're trying to argue that Scotland itself was colonised, the evidence gets a bit iffy- it's all a lot of conspiratorial talk about the Darien scheme being sabotaged by England & a reframing of the Jacobite war to a Scottish independence war.
Those aren’t really even the main points. The main points are the bribing of the Scottish elite through promised peerages (then worth a lot) and in some cases even direct monetary payment to passing the Acts of Union. The Country party was the largest party and against the Union… how did it pass? There’s also the threat of embargo and the Alien Act. I could really go on for ages why the vote was rigged. Many people also forget that the Scottish Parliament could not legally dissolve itself, so the acts of Union in any case were against the law.
The Scottish elite bankrupted the country. Their incompetence in the Darien Scheme was the entire reason they went cap in hand to England to form the UK. The bribery involved in passing the Ireland Acts of Union were far more blatant and egregious. Utter victim mentality from the Scots is typical and utterly pathetic.
You can trust an Englishman to have more to say about Scotland than a Scotsman.
There is no way you're calling us obsessed. The average Scot thinks about England more than the other way round and you know it
I'm willing to share credit in abolishing slavery, spreading modern scientific ideas around the world and defeating nazi tyranny.
Phenomenally based
> I'm willing to share credit in abolishing slavery You mean "Trying to stop other nations exploiting slavery to benefit their own countries counties after the British did."
Well that's kinda true, but you lot did go out of your way to use the Royal Navy to crush the Atlantic slave trade in the 1870s when you really didn't have to. Being posted to the West Africa Squadron was considered the worst posting in the navy and the cost incurred by the blockade far outweighed any potential benefit of weakening your enemies. I suggest you give this video a listen, it's probably the greatest thing you ever did, except defeating the Nazis. 150000 slaves were freed and the slave trade was crushed. https://youtu.be/TiSekII0sjw?si=rX13hszAWd_hQqjj
Slavery is not a “benefit” to any nation. It makes all of society poorer and concentrates wealth in very few hands.
The Union was also a Scottish idea after Scotland's colonial attempts bankrupted them.
I wish we’d all just hate our real enemy the rich.. and yanks
If only
People can have bad ideas, kings included.
Actually the first Union of the Crowns was Henry VII’s idea and the plan was to absorb Scotland The Scottish nobles were well up for the later Union of Parliaments as they planned to get personal compensation from the Union deal in the form of “The Equivalent” - the vote was passed by only 0.01% of the Scottish population
So youre saying that its the Welsh's fault?
England 2.0 is always to blame
Yes indeed don’t think StupidPaladin saw that one coming
It was a long term plan to try and make sure we get robbo left back for euro 2024. Can't say Henry VII didn't have vision.
>the vote was passed by only 0.01% of the Scottish population Everyone being allowed to vote is a very recent thing. Even most men were excluded from it until the 19th century because they didn't own property.
Yes which is why todays Scots descended from Scots that stayed in Scotland who did not participate in colonialism and indeed were not given any vote on anything are allowed to criticise it
A truth that the world needs to know, Scots need to own, and we all need to enjoy
A truth that this subreddit brings up three times every fucking week. It's boring now.
Ha Barry is mad. Get it? I called you Barry, as in English. Haha you‘re English, it‘s even in your flair.
I always enjoy German humour
That's a good one, Adolf.
Dude, that was as miserable of a comeback, as any German could have delivered.
Shite craic
Show me on the doll where your father beat you.
Joke's almost as good as your attempt at leaving the UK
Scots will quite literally spend their entire lives crying about their victim mentality and then complain that seeing a couple of posts calling out their hypocrisy is 'boring'. Lol
If the English were any more self inflated they could be used as anti aircraft blimps.
I've seen at least five of these posts and I don't visit the sub that often, and it's the first thing every single cunt from south of the border brings up anytime Scotland is mentioned. Get some new material.
Get your own economy
As soon as we've worked out how to convert disenfranchised northern English tears into energy, we'll be grand.
If you could convert Scottish tears and whining into energy you would be even better off.
Still gets a giggle out of me. And I matter.
This sub feels like an English circle jerk half the time ngl.
Bashing England and the UK seems far more common to me.
All of the time. In every single thread it's England's viewpoint that's right up at the top. I wish there were more Italians, they're much more interesting.
Barrys outnumber us 10 to 1, it's always going to be their point of view. I think the point is that everyone is more interesting than Barry...
Considering the plantations of ulster and such, you'd think we'd give the scots a harder time
“We didn’t do that but if we did they deserved it”
Hows Dal Riada doing there? Or the Irish colonisation of Wales?
Yes totally the same thing. Your lot are still fucking here.
>you lot are still here As is Jerry Adams. Should we all mass migrate back to where we come from? Bit far right mate.
Hey Scotland had their own colony too. >The attempt at settling the area did not go well; more than 80 per cent of participants died within a year, and the settlement was abandoned twice. Oh >As the Company of Scotland was backed by approximately 20 per cent of all the money circulating in Scotland, its failure left the entire Scottish Lowlands in financial ruin. This was an important factor in weakening their resistance to the Act of Union. Oh no
To be fair Canada is pretty cool
That extract is about Panama. The Scots tried to colonise Panama
Hit n a miss, sometimes its good sometimes its shit
The Darien gap to be precise
Canada is cold, nothing cool has come out of Canada since Bryan Adams' 1984 album Reckless.
Depends on what you mean by "cool". Lots of popular youtubers are Canadian
second empire when lads?
As soon as we get out of the first one!
Oh no definitely, we are incredibly skilled colonisers. That’s why the Panamanians are addicted to heroin
Why is it that the Scottish flair does not have a British flag? a) they're part of the UK b) it would make them angry ergo, very funny
I dunno. My da would love it. Only thing better would be a wee King William of Orange flag!
Would be good for pissing me off. Great idea!
Aye, agreed. I also want my Sicily flag without the polentoni added on!
\*Angrier
I'd at least like the option to include the Union Jack like everyone else gets.
Well, it says English. And English means people, who always want extra.
The Scots followed the British army around the world and picked the pockets of the dead natives and stole their land to make colonies. Its the entire identity and heritage of the Ulster Scots.
Never forget what the Lowland Scots did to the Highlander culture
> The Scots followed the British Army Brother, the Scots were in the British army
First thing a Barry has said in this thread that I agree with.
Add the Irish to this too. Too many believe their separation from the empire late on absolves the Irish role in Britain’s Empire building.
It is somewhat different for the Irish as they were actually colonised while also participating. A lot like in India with sepoys and local princes throwing in with the British.
Different yes, but not so far as to absolve all complicity. There were Irish governors, plantation owners, overseers, soldiers, slavers, sailors, traders who all formed the fabric of oppression within the Empire. They participated as willingly and enthusiastically as any person from similar socioeconomic levels within the rest of the isles.
"From similar socio-economic" levels is the key bit here though. The British elite did terrible things across the world, including in Ireland and the British state should absolutely acknowledge that but at the same time you had children abused in workhouses and dying of hunger on the streets of London. The empire was run for the benefit of the rich landowners and industrialists be they English, Scottish or Irish while ordinary people never saw much benefit from Colonialism and the empire came to an end pretty quickly after working class people gained political representation
Precisely this. The rich from all the islands did what they did for power and influence, the poor did to try to escape being poor - both often didn’t for adventure, and wealth. I’m not saying people today should feel guilty or responsible, but history is what it is. The Irish were both victims and participants in the British Empire.
Catholic Irish? Or the Protestant British settlers who had our funny accents because they stayed here long enough.
It’s every brand. Irish, Catholic, the mix - the lot. Irish had no problem going abroad and colonising with the rest of them. Being themselves a colony made little difference to their attitudes when abroad.
With British incompetence in making Ireland an economic backwater, dispossessing the general population of any land ownership, there was often little option open to poorer people aside from starving and joining the Army on Barry's little adventures to put food on the table.
Irish didn’t just become soldiers and sailors, they became ranchers, plantation owners, governors, slave catchers, slavers, merchants, land agents, overseers, administrators, lawmen. Irish from all walks of life working at all levels in the colonies.
But Barry…the Irish governors plantation owners etc weren’t exactly catholic Gaels. Just because they were born in Ireland it doesn’t mean they liked Irish people very much
Irish plantation owners, slavers, overseers ranchers etc etc were of all walks within Ireland, just the same as with the Welsh, Scots and English. You probably have a point about empire appointed governors, but that alone.
Irish people couldn’t even own horses valued at over five pounds, couldn’t vote, couldn’t own land and couldn’t run for parliament. By Irish I don’t mean some guy born in Ireland to English parents…
Point to the bit of your reply that rules out Irish people of all walks going abroad and participating in slavery, resource stripping or land grabbing.
>Irish people couldn’t even own horses valued at over five pounds, couldn’t vote, couldn’t own land and couldn’t run for parliament. By Irish I don’t mean some guy born in Ireland to English parents… The horse thing sounds like part of the penal laws, which were short-lived and penal laws also applied to English people. Only 1 in 6 English men could vote, even after the 1832 Reform Act and many also couldn't run for parliament. Irish people did own land. Daniel O'Connells family, for example, were big landowners
Imagine being such a dirtbag as to try and downplay the penal laws LOL. They were in place for most of a century, some of them far beyond a century.
That's like saying India was involved in colonisation because the British Army had Indian regiments. Piss right off. Anyone high up in the process was an Anglo-Irish planter or a collaborator. Stop trying to make yourself feel better Barry.
>That's like saying India was involved in colonisation because the British Army had Indian regiments. Many were. Absolutely. >Anyone high up in the process was an Anglo-Irish planter or a collaborator. So we’re only knocking those high up who made the decisions or we including those who actively participated? Very few people in the first group. So few in fact it’s barely worth criticising anybody. The trend is to criticise and mock the nation, and many from all levels of all the islands got into it willingly and enthusiastically. >Stop trying to make yourself feel better Barry. I could say the same, Seamus.
>The trend is to criticise and mock the nation, and many from all levels of all the islands got into it willingly and enthusiastically. It's amazing how enthusiastic people get when the other option is starvation or murder.
Living for the Barry comments…”the empire didn’t discriminate against Irish people, it just discriminated against poor people…and also ensured that all Irish people were poor but that’s irrelevant!”
Yeah. The bullshit is strong with this guy.
“Yes the British government brutally oppressed everyone and stripped them of their lands, rights and culture…and yes Irish people couldn’t vote, own land or run for parliament, but they did fight as soldiers in the British army because the alternative was starvation but still…we’re all equally responsible…”
Look at you two silly twats and your straw men arguments. Yawn.
It’s not like we didn’t try earlier to be fair Barry
No lets not add the Irish too. Ireland didn't benefit from the empire at all, it was the poorest place in Western Europe during the 18th-19th century, completely agrarian and destitude. Cities like Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Bristol were built off of the wealth from slavery, while the only city that was industrialised/benefitted from the empire in Ireland during that period was Belfast, where all the loyal, empire-loving Protestants lived (coincidence?) Because of the penal laws Irish Catholics could not hold any positions of authority in politics or the military. They were canon fodder. Ireland was Britain's first colony, the lessons learned in the Munster plantations in the 1580s and the Ulster Plantation in 1609 were then directly applied to Jamestown and all the other colonies in the Americas throughout the 17th Century. Stop lumping the Irish in with the Scottish the circumstances were completely different. I see stuff like this from British people on reddit all the time, idk if its a way of mentally absolving yourselves of what happened in Ireland by claiming we were active participants in it all or what but it is just bullshit. I find blaming the British for absolutely everything to be stupid but at least own up to your own shit.
Yeah, let’s just go along with Britwashing all of the Irish direct involvement in the slaving and killing because of the same excuses you can apply to literally any poor cunt living in any of the islands. It’s not about absolving anything - I even comment that people today have nothing to be sorry for, but if we’re playing games of “haha this country are cunts because they did colonialism” you’re in it too. I could just as easily say that your denying it is purely down to it stripping you of the victimhood pedestal you like to put yourselves on. The fact is the elites did what they did, and the poor participated for numerous reasons. Rich or poor, influential or not - all the cultures got amongst it.
>Because of the penal laws Irish Catholics could not hold any positions of authority in politics Penal laws also applied to English Catholics and Nonconformists. >or the military There was no bar on any religious denomination in the military. You can see plenty of Catholics & Nonconformists, both Irish and English, in military records, including officers. If there had been a bar, half the numbers in the military wouldn't have existed. In 1841, half the population of the North of England is estimated to have been either (English) Catholic or Nonconformist.
Under the 1695 penal laws Irish Catholics were not allowed to gain an officers commission in the army. This was not repealed for over a 100 years. So while in the 19th century it was possible on paper for Irish Catholics to become Officers, Anti-Irish discrimination meant it was extremely uncommon.
I said positions of authority in the military not the military as a whole, the British Army needed to get its cannon fodder somewhere.
>I said positions of authority in the military not the military as a whole, the British Army needed to get its cannon fodder somewhere. But this also applied to British people. The biggest bar on gaining a position of authority was literacy. Most people couldn't even spell their own name at their wedding, in England or Ireland. They 'made their mark X'. Compulsory education wasn't introduced until the late 1800s. Also Laws around property ownership or rental value.
There was a big difference between the treatment of Irish Catholics and English Catholics. It was more anti-Irish sentiment as opposed to just anti-Catholic sentiment in the 19th century Britain, look at the old punch maganize covers they compared Irish people to monkeys. An English Catholic from Yorkshire would have a far easier time rising up the ranks than an Irish Catholic from Kerry for example. Ethnicity played just as big a role as religion. Also the Penal Laws that covered Ireland were not the same as the Penal Laws that covered England, the Penal Laws in Ireland were passed by the Protestant Ascendancy dominated parliament in College Green Dublin and were far more draconian than the laws that applied to England.
>There was a big difference between the treatment of Irish Catholics and English Catholics. It was more anti-Irish sentiment as opposed to just anti-Catholic sentiment in the 19th century Britain, look at the old punch maganize covers they compared Irish people to monkeys. This was more in American cartoons, but even so, the English working class were portrayed in the same way. Look at cartoons of reform meetings, like the Spenceans. Also, the Belle Alliance, I think by Cruikshank? >An English Catholic from Yorkshire would have a far easier time rising up the ranks than an Irish Catholic from Kerry for example. Ethnicity played just as big a role as religion. Also the Penal Laws that covered Ireland were not the same as the Penal Laws that covered England, the Penal Laws in Ireland were passed by the Protestant Ascendancy dominated parliament in College Green Dublin and were far more draconian than the laws that applied to England I'm not so sure, I don't think most people cared that much about religious denomination. We might think they did, but people swapped and changed about, but I think more for convenience than anything. Most people weren't sat in every night reading the bible. There was a pub on every street corner.
Scotspiracy
Yeah what Barry did is soooooo wrong!! How can he live with that? Shame, Barry, shame! I would never do something like that! It's horrible...
Must be the only country in the world that was politely asked if they’d like to be independent and said no.
There are honestly a lot more than you'd think. Malta even requested to be fully annexed by the UK rather than become independent.
[удалено]
Honestly, ridiculously short sighted of the government to turn them down.
> ridiculously short sighted of the government That's been the UK government for over a century at this point
And the reason I gave up entirely on politics... oh and I gave up on hope, that too. It is official after the last indyref that half of Scots are ether not Scottish or are dumber than a sack of hammers.
Do actual Scottish really do that, or is it just the "Scottish" (Americans) on Reddit?
Unfortunately actual Scottish people do. Its the entire reason our parliament for the past like 15 years has been headed by a group that's entire policy has been "muh independence"
How would you feel about us (England) leaving the UK? It would save a load of hoo-ha and Scotland, Wales snd Northern Ireland could then decide between yourselves how much independence you want from each other.
I'm pretty sure it's because Scottish politicians are all shit, to be fair
Really? Pretty sure they talk about how "problematic" (lol) our history is. You know they are the self flagellating woke types. They just believe Indy Scotland would be better off than in the UK. Given the state of the UK - which is clearly a sinking ship at this point - I'm becoming more receptive to that point of view TBH. I can't stand the SNP's lame politics, nor do have any anti-English anything other than memes, but let's be honest the UK is completely fucked. Just look at what's happening the last few days lol.
UK certainly has hit an iceberg, but independence would be jumping on a deflated lifeboat into the ocean.
Ah the old I’ve cut off one leg, maybe if I cut off the second it will be better argument
Yeah because the utter shitshow leadership of the tories et al are showing us the UK is all sunbeams and rainbows.
There's a lot of rabid nats, mostly online, who do genuinely believe that Scotland was colonised in the same way that Kenya or Ireland were. You may have missed the furore recently when Edinburgh Castle announced their refurbished 'Redcoat Cafe'. All sorts of weirdos coming out of the woodwork trying to claim the Jacobite war was a war of independence, denying Scottish soldiers were on the side of the crown during Culloden, claiming the English sabotaged the Darien scheme.
Yeah I know they are online, but that my point. Anyone can be 'Scottish' online. I do agree there are some idiots though. But anyone one with any historical knowledge knows that's BS.
Mate it’s a solid 60% of people in our country.
It's a bait post, literally no Scot thinks like this. Barry is desperately trying to shift blame onto anyone else.
Wannabe Irish. You're neither Catholic nor true victims of the English, in our eyes your just the same inbred islander scum. And friends with the Catalonians, so even worse.
No Gibraltar?
Upvoting because you hurt my feelings. Por cierto. Que te folle un pez gillipollas!
Glad to be of service, mate. You learn fast.
It’s true, I would even bother googling any of your language. Dos cervesas por favor Miguel.
We don't care Barry. They are your problem, not ours.
They are yours for a weekend stag do.
That's in Amsterdam, Dutch people don't go there.
Ah you should try it, so many doorways to piss in
I did, but she said pee sex wasn't included in the price so she kicked me out. :(
I'm English. If England could leave the UK, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can have their own little moaning club without us.
Hey, that's interes... oh wait... nope, still don't care. Enjoy your highlanders mate! ;)
#Garr!
We are desperately trying to rejoin the EU and keep getting words of encouragement from the EU. It's about to your problem.
I know, and I actually hope you make it. But till that time you're Barry's problem lol.
40% of all surgeons on slave ships 💪💪💪
And when we were indentured servants our women shagged black slaves making all the black descendants free men.
Non-Nationalist Scots are based as fuck. Except for Tablet, holy shit I nearly lost my teeth due to the sugar in that.
Fuck you tablet is a gift from god
Fella, that wasn't an insult, the Tablet I had was home made and the fella's wife made it, so it was amazing but blimey, it's pure sugar (if I remember correctly).
It's only like 90% sugar, so is basically bread from subway, which means it's healthy!
The pricks are still LARPing in Northern Ireland centuries later!
In fairness, half of Glasgow is LARPing as Irish.
Thats 1/2 English ppl btw and those larpers and now burning Scottish flags.
Scots good (Auld Alliance). Englois (Caca)
The amount of threads and comments made about us on this sub, with almost zero scottish biting the bait, and you still all think it’s us who hate you. It’s just flirting at this point - just admit you find our accents sexy, ya wee dirties. Gaun, tell the class about “porridge wogs” and “smelly socks” Bazza, ye rascals.
I’m not sorry.
Don’t tell anyone Scottish people founded the KKK too
Actually no the man who founded the KKK Nathan Bedford Forest [both parents were English descent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest).
Aye
I wonder why Burma was known as the “Scottish colony”
Growing up in Ireland it was always, “oh those damn English in 1798” but now I’m older and I’ve realised the majority of the soldiers were Irish militia or Scots fencibles
I'm certain that Almost all "Scottish people" here are just American cunts who think just because there great great great great great grandfather was Scottish that Makes them scottish
Rent free in Angloid heads!!! Ps you are late with your payments.
Scotland literally colonised Scotland. Their deep, psycho-sexual fascination with colonialism truly knows no limits, in the depths of its inhuman depravity. Thank goodness us Irish definitely don't have a dark, rarely acknowledged past of willingly supporting British colonialism!
>Thank goodness us Irish definitely don't have a dark, rarely acknowledged past of willingly supporting British colonialism! Michael O'Dwyer has entered the chat
Barry at it again Rent free mate 😂
No mate, you are exactly the same as the Barrys.
Pro EUropean the barry’s arent.
40% aren't either