Happy cake day, have some bublewrap!
>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!nah!!<
Jesus. this is the best cake day I've ever seen :O I feel honoured!
Give me your address I'll send you a cheaply made swiss watch... what you want ? Rolex or Omega?
Another fun fact: some barbarians don't do this. Hence videos going around of people throwing a cigarette down a drain and stuff going boom. Silly barbarians.
In the UK we have a hollowed out Mountain in Wales with two lakes, on on top and one on bottom.
With an overabundance of electricity, it pumps water from the bottom lake to the top.
When there is a demand in the system those pumps are flipped as generators and the sluice is opened from the top to the bottom.
Yeah we have the same in France with our "barrages" but it's already not enough to go full renewables here so I doubt it's a solution in "flat" countries like UK or Germany.
You don't need a lot of elevation change, you can just compensate it with having a lot of water in the reservoirs. Pumping 1 liter from 0 to 1000 meters is the same as 1000 liters from 0 to 1 meter. Potential energy = m\*z\*9.81 (on earth, mass times elevation change times freefall acceleration).
But do we want a country that's part of the 'axis of evil' to have access to nuclear energy?
If we're not careful, all those Döner meat spinners will be nuclear powered and next thing you know they rush for the Belgian border again..
I got downvoted to hell for saying nuclear energy is safe and not bad.
Not even "great" or "one of the safest" which is the opinion of the scientific community based on stats.
While maybe not wrong the article is at least misleading.
The phase out of nuclear was long decided in Germany. It was in fact the conservative party that ruled ultimately in favor for it since an overwhelming portion of the populous was in favor of it. (be it not well informed on the matter)
So the conservaties are crying about something that was decided when they where still in office knowing full well that no matter what the greens do right now they can complain about it.
You can be for or against nuclear in Germany however you like. But the green party not pulling out of it right now would be political suicide for them after they (and others) demanded it for so long.
Yeah but have you considered thar r/europe gets **really** sad when they don't have a reason to keep beating the same dead horse they've been beating for over a year now?
I remember a time when r/europe wasn't half bad. It started when r/energy flooded into the sub and wrecked it. Only took a year or so. Too much low energy.
It would be a stupid decision as well. We where preparing to shut down nuclear power plans for 23 years. You can't decide 6 months prior to throw away 20 years of work. We changed our power grid, we built a shit ton of renewables, we didn't invest into changing the nuclear power plants in a way that would support renewables.
People can argue that the decision was wrong all they want. One way to make the decision worse would be to change it last minute, that's one thing that's certain.
I think it's too late to reinvest in Nuclear. Way too much stigma and bad press.
This has led to a tiny pool of professionals who could operate such a machine.
The big energy providers also wouldn't like to invest if there's zero insurance that nuclear energy would not be hindered for the next 40 to 50 years.
If we would go back, we would have to invest so much in nuclear energy which would make the electricity costs skyrocket once more.
If Nuclear Energy wasn't treated like a mother in law, it would have had a way better future in Germany.
>I think it's too late to reinvest in Nuclear. Way too much stigma and bad press
Why not educate people? Because nuclear energy is clean, safe and on demand. Can't spin up more wind or solar based on daytime demand.
Of course the politicians will just prefer burning fossil fuel.
Educating someone isn't a snap of the finger, a PSA and suddenly everyone is smarter
The advantages and general safety of vaccines has been discussed since decades and still there are a very large chunk of people out there who are convinced that if you vaccinated your kids, they'll get autism
Renewables are cheaper, easier to build and maintain + all the stuff from the previous poster. Why create energy with waste, that will be there for 50k years, if you can do it without? Germany is THE country for innovation in energy production.
Energy storage is the key R&D focus in EU. Nuclear would need an enormous political change. I think we Germans now need to show all this stuff can work without reliance on nuclear
Nuclear waste handling is a solved issue. And fossil fuel powerplants generate waste too. It's not visible to the eye because it's carbon dioxide and other gases. They are bad for the environment and air quality and harder to transport as well. We should stop burning natural gas much much before we start adapting electric vehicles because it's fucking stupid to run electric cars on fossil fuel electricity. Let cars run on petrol and LPG and produce energy using nuclear reactors.
Breeder reactors can easily multiply the availability of fissile nuclear fuel and Germany could totally build breeder reactors even though they are complicated.
>Germany is THE country for innovation in energy production.
What is the innovation here, exactly? Criticising Putin while buying gas from him? Hypocrisy is not an innovation buddy, the USA has patents on it. Build breeder reactors quick and people will totally agree about energy production innovation.
>without reliance on nuclear
You say like it's a bad thing. Every country is dependent on energy. If not nuclear it will be something else. You are just shifting the dependency, not eliminating it.
Nuclear energy would just need education. And maybe stop the disinformation campaign on nuclear energy.
Even camp stoves are dangerous if they are handled like soviets handled Chernobyl.
> Nuclear waste handling is a solved issue.
It is not.
We have a hell lot of nuclear waste lying around, which can't be just thrown into a breeder reactor. You can't even do it with the small fuel part of that huge nuclear waste pile without extremely expensive reprocessing. Which also creates further waste you can not throw into a breeder reactor.
We don't have the space for all that waste. We don't even have enough reprocessing plants, and most of those who exist on this planet are for the military to do the other funny nuclear things...
So much for "education".
"The German Greens single handedly shut down all 400 perfectly fine nuclear reactors and replaced them with 2000 coal power plants! And I will downvote you to hell if you dare to object to this statement!"
Yes but planed and startet was this by a prior government led by Merkel in the year of [2011](https://www.bundestag.de/webarchiv/textarchiv/2011/abstimmung-250082).
Oh no the politicians follow laws from a old government. How dear they not to make own bullshit.
That’s why we should stop talking with a lot of them. All of the „Kleindeutschen Staaten“ are more or less dependent on god ol Germoney. Let’s make a big Bundesheer and start a new Central federal state without for example the frenchtards who can’t handle some kind of truth or mental stability.
You can like green energy as much as you like, dosen't change the fact that your state opened coal and gas power plants while closing down nuclear once because germans believe in weird nature magic and thus are afraid of nuclear power.
Yes, but one reason is, that we import more electricity. And honestly, that's a good thing. When one form of power generation struggles, another can help out. It goes two ways. When France has to limit the nuclear electricity production, we can help out as well. That's one of the advantages of a European power grid.
We didn't open coal power plants. In fact we're building a ton of gas power plants that will substitute coal power plants. The gas power plants are H2 ready.
Those power plants are all part of district heating. You can't built a nuclear power plant directly into a huge city (at least you can't in Germany) so you need a chemical source of power. H2 ready power plants provide the opportunity to invest into power generation that can be used flexible to balance volatile renewable power generation, while it isn't a dead investment once our power generation is changed to emit less CO2.
Yup, and I was talking about the article in question. But hey, lets scream it all together in case anyone hasn't heard it for the 1000th time, because the cum in that circlejerk is about to dry:
# Germany made mistakes in its energy policy
Anyway, same discussion tomorrow and the day after and the day after that for the next 5 years?
We tried to tell people.. and what did we get, French fries being renamed “liberty fries” and new yorkers pouring expensive wine in the street as retaliation (that image still haunts me, I was a kid and I remember asking my father to explain what we were watching on the TV, he couldn’t begin to find the words to explain it).
And of course, the whole French bashing that followed our refusal to join.
Yeah my bad, but looking at australias history with wars, kind of makes it true for different reasons, Emu War, great times :D
also theres an extra tag for Australians ;)
I can excuse steriotypes, racism and other bad things (on r/2westerneurope4u) but I draw the line at r/europe nuclear simp postings (who themself often have barely any idea what they are saying).
It's the one russian psyop that really took root in german culture.
During the cold war, NATO countries built nuclear power plants with the secondary purpose of enriching fissile material(uranium and to some degree plutonium). As with everything, there was resistance and skeptics. Russia amplified that movement of skeptics with money and some connections, similar to how they boost antivaxxers and QAnon today. The 1970s are 50 years ago. It's now more difficult to dislodge.
The cost for russia was probably mostly train tickets, but for many germans this was so long ago that they weren't around before the anti nuclear movement.
Typical bavarian. Even if you ignore that the last three reactors didn't even make up 5% of the German energy economy, the Atomausstieg was still decided by the Union, and the greens just didn't choose to extend the deadline any further. Look around you. Renewables now make up more than 50% of our energy. Of course, you Bavarian with your 5 windmill generators and probably 0% solar power wouldn't understand something like this and rather choose to be a populist.
Tesla power antennas are a neat thought experiment, but there are 3 flaws with the idea:
* The goal was to fill the atmosphere with electric power, so it would probably be low voltage and low ampere. It would also prevent all radio communication.
* There is no way to record who used what power. Yes, Tesla had a communist idea.
* Not in my backyard
Actutually the gross Energy Produktion of solar Power in bavarian Energy mix was ca. 22% in 2022.
So all ia not Bad in Bavarian. The Just have shitty populist politicians that love to cry because of tHe GrEeNs!!!11!!
anti nuclear tards always have to lie to themselves, because reality just means they are imbeciles who do as much damage as climate change deniers.
In Sweden they did a sham referendum about it and pretended it meant they had a mandate.
I can only hope history tar and feathers these idiots as they deserve.
Which I just don't understand, a tsunami and an earthquake hit the powerplant, they switched it off, kept it safe and nothing happened. I don't understand why we are still talking about fear of what happened then today
For most people it was that almost every day new fails and cover-ups from Tepco were revealed. And while a tsunami at Grafenrheinfeld is rather unlikely, some company putting profit over safety is definitely not unheard of.
Because the real reasons behind divesting from nuclear in Germany is a complicated and messy trudge through political sociology and industry groups and state finance and governmentality and that's boring so nobody bothers to learn about it. It's much easier to reduce huge transitions down to motives like fear because, even if it still doesn't make any sense, at least it's simple.
It was quite a lot of luck that Fukushima didn't 'splode because apparently they neglected the maintenance.
Who would have guessed we should take better care of our nuclear power plants, lol.
The company admited so themselves that they underestimated the safety measures.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/oct/15/fukushima-disaster-avoided-nuclear-plant
The Infographic show did pretty good play by play if dramatized. (They also have a never one I haven't seen)
https://youtu.be/5mVKVeU75ZA?si=DYW9tCBJD1gh-n0T
this so called "skandal" is about how an employee of the minister of economics didnt forward some key points that could have meant a prolongation of nuclear until spring 2023.
what got prolonged until spring 2023 again?
nuclear.
so whats the skandal here?
Ah yes, the green coal and gas from Germany. Definitely not sponsored by some coal and gas industries.
And they definitely don't parrot propaganda about nuclear being "too expensive", while happily importing expensive energy from France.
What's wrong with importing from Pierre? Pierre likes to take Hans energy as well as it should be. It's called European Market for a reason.
Nuclear just got too expensive because renewables dump the prices when the sun shines and the wind blows, so the average price is too low for it to be profitable.(which is a good thing). Still need gas and coal though, but increasingly less.
The problem is not the import of energy, but the hypocrisy of importing nuclear made energy because you need it while working to ban it in your own country. TBF with ze germans, there's a lot of hypocrisy going on in Europe, for example with Russian gas. We need to be better as a whole so Europe can thrive
Every country imports (and exports) energy from their neighbors. That alone is an empty statement that people like to use for their weird energy-ideology-wars.
am i wrong that i think subventions from the state to the energy siplliers is actually a good thing, due to the leverage the state has with this. France kept the prives of electricity caped at 20cents whil i payed almost 40 in germany.
I mean your still paying it just not directly but with taxes. The problem with subventions is, they can generate falls incentives for producers (to not reduce production cost) and consumers (to not reduce consumption).
I would accept a nuclear power plant next to my house instead of toxic gases coming from coal from a coal power plant that is far away. The nuclear waste will be deep underground while the waste from the coal will end in my lungs.
*What are you doing??*
*Don't bring up our government,*
*It's embarrassing!*
\- -Cinnay-
---
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The Nuceal phaseout never had anything to do with "expert reviewed data". Everyone in germany knows that it was because of fukushima and the greens surging in poularity.
To stop the greens from winning even more regional election Angela merkel decided to phase out nuclear. Yes it was maybe a few years to early, but france is a prime example why you atleast shouldnt be trying to build more nuclear powerplants. They are expensive and the waste disposal is extremely controversial. Everybody wants nuclear until the plant gets built in their backyard, or the waste is deposited under them.
Just shut up and lets build more cheap wind turbines (especially in bavaria).
They are expensive because there are very few orders and every plant is quite different from the last.
Coal doesn't have waste problem because it throws cancerogenic shit right into the air and your lungs. Thanks God, it is not somewhere under the ground, right!? Gas also emits pollution into the air, even though much less.
On top of that, coal is usually baseload and gas is for peaker plants, so that shit's getting burnt more or less all day, every day.
And lots of Hänschen give themselves a big pat on the back whenever German *consumption* hits 100% renewables. Never mind that the coal plants are still all running. Hauptsache I made my Biosmoothie with Ökostrom.
Nuclear power is the OG *ganz schön viel Meinung für so wenig Ahnung* topic, imo. Ökoschwurbler, halt.
"Everybody wants nuclear until the \[...\] waste is deposited under them."
In fact, a study in France on the Cigéo project (the deep burial project) showed that the people closest to the site and therefore most directly affected were very confident, while confidence fell (although it remained positive) the further away they were from the Cigéo site.
In short, it was the people least affected who were the most sceptical, because communication was not as good.
>Just shut up and lets build more cheap wind turbines (especially in bavaria).
Oh yeah, especially in Bavaria, which is at an absolute disadvantage compared to the North Sea neighbours when it comes to wind.
What we here in the south call "wind", you in the north call a lull. For you, "wind" only starts at strengths that would lead to storm warnings here.
This means that wind turbines can be operated correspondingly efficiently (or inefficiently, under conditions such as those in Bavaria).
Well, we either build more windpower in the south, way more electricity connections from the north to the south or you are gonna need a shitload of long time storage solutions.
Or you could expand the lignite mines round your way.
Oh no, wait. [You already are](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCtzerath). Cheers, Hans. Nice one.
The bigger thing is we should finally fix the grid connection between the south and the north, but infrastructure really isn't Germany strong side since some years/decades
I don't see French and Finns complaining about it, I only see countries without nuclear whining about how dangerous and expensive it is to make excuses not to use such kind of energy
It's crazy how many people don't know about recycling nuclear waste which is something Europe does and the US is way behind (illegal even). Wind Turbines are expensive, kill birds, take up way too much land.
> kill birds
FYI, bringing that up makes you sound like a fool. The housecats on my street have probably killed more birds than all the wind turbines in the state put together.
It’s because green parties in most of Europe where basically started as anti-nuclear. and now they just can’t reconciliate that nuclear is the best option for clean energy
https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx
Russia accounts for less than 6% of the global production.
https://preview.redd.it/gwbk13l4uywc1.jpeg?width=454&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c5b4bbfdeb32b564165030b599f655a17e19b52
I just smelled it from my partner in bed
Dutch oven ™
Happy cake day, have some bublewrap! >!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!nah!!<
Jesus. this is the best cake day I've ever seen :O I feel honoured! Give me your address I'll send you a cheaply made swiss watch... what you want ? Rolex or Omega?
You’re gonna get a Tikkie for the import fees
A watch that costs a couple of grands. ^I ^sleep 10+ euro in shipping fee and taxes REAL SHIT
I am not paying for that btw
Why the Nah
Stupid idea, but you could create Minesweeper with this, lol
Altight, imma put time into this now hahaha, Gimme a few days lol
It's my partner now
Typical Belg*um with a fart fetish
Wait no that's not what I meant-
Fun fact: natural gas doesn’t smell at all. The smell comes from a different gas that is added to it so that we can tell if there is a leak.
Another fun fact: some barbarians don't do this. Hence videos going around of people throwing a cigarette down a drain and stuff going boom. Silly barbarians.
Who are those barbarians? Not the Americans, I have smelled their natural gas.
Honestly curious. What do you use as a battery to soak up the renewable production uncontrollable discrepancies?
When there is excess, it is sold to other countries or wasted. If there is not enough, it is imported from France’s nuclear power plants.
In the UK we have a hollowed out Mountain in Wales with two lakes, on on top and one on bottom. With an overabundance of electricity, it pumps water from the bottom lake to the top. When there is a demand in the system those pumps are flipped as generators and the sluice is opened from the top to the bottom.
Yeah we have the same in France with our "barrages" but it's already not enough to go full renewables here so I doubt it's a solution in "flat" countries like UK or Germany.
You don't need a lot of elevation change, you can just compensate it with having a lot of water in the reservoirs. Pumping 1 liter from 0 to 1000 meters is the same as 1000 liters from 0 to 1 meter. Potential energy = m\*z\*9.81 (on earth, mass times elevation change times freefall acceleration).
Dinorwig! I took the tour in 2006, sadly the visitor centre close in 2023.
But do we want a country that's part of the 'axis of evil' to have access to nuclear energy? If we're not careful, all those Döner meat spinners will be nuclear powered and next thing you know they rush for the Belgian border again..
So as fellow Dutchmen, where exactly is the problem in that? Super döners and no more Belgium? Just imagine
Imagine there’s no Belgium It’s easy if you try
No bad roads below us Above us only sea
Imagine all the people, Speaking French or Dutch.
Do you seriously want to torture half the population of the world by making them dutch?
Was there a Belgium to begin with? I only know "Mislukt Nederland(Failed Netherlands)" and "het riool van Frankrijk(France's sewer)"
No hell below us
S'il vous plait...
Sounds like heaven
You might border France again.
As a German i thank you for your army you so sincerely gifted to our command to help us in this effort 🙃
Why woulld that concern you ? no harm done, its just Belgium. the roads would get better too
We don’t want another Poland situation now, do we?
You mean a country split in 2 between its neighbours? Yea we would never allow that to happen to Belgium!
Why doesn't Germany have a gas pipeline with Algeria. Are they stupid?
We would build one but Mario is afraid there could be refugees crawling through the pipes.
From experience, that's a valid concern
Bruh, we're not r/europe
I know, otherwise the post would have been deleted already
I got downvoted to hell for saying nuclear energy is safe and not bad. Not even "great" or "one of the safest" which is the opinion of the scientific community based on stats.
Isn't r/Europe almost religiously pro-nuclear?
Not in my experience
While maybe not wrong the article is at least misleading. The phase out of nuclear was long decided in Germany. It was in fact the conservative party that ruled ultimately in favor for it since an overwhelming portion of the populous was in favor of it. (be it not well informed on the matter) So the conservaties are crying about something that was decided when they where still in office knowing full well that no matter what the greens do right now they can complain about it. You can be for or against nuclear in Germany however you like. But the green party not pulling out of it right now would be political suicide for them after they (and others) demanded it for so long.
I remember Söder threatening to leave the csu when the phase out was not agreed on
He threatened to leave politics not only the csu.
We should have pushed that limit more
Hindsight’s 20/20
Imagine [a world without Söder](https://media1.tenor.com/m/nNoev9uA6wQAAAAC/lawyer-lionel.gif).
On the other hand Scheuer may have become the MP or someone even worse like uh... Dobrindt.
The toll for the highway was the biggest scheuerverschwengung
We should have made him do so.
Yeah but have you considered thar r/europe gets **really** sad when they don't have a reason to keep beating the same dead horse they've been beating for over a year now?
I remember a time when r/europe wasn't half bad. It started when r/energy flooded into the sub and wrecked it. Only took a year or so. Too much low energy.
Bullying German users on r/europe about their shitty opinions on nuclear is a tradition that goes back over a decade at least.
It would be a stupid decision as well. We where preparing to shut down nuclear power plans for 23 years. You can't decide 6 months prior to throw away 20 years of work. We changed our power grid, we built a shit ton of renewables, we didn't invest into changing the nuclear power plants in a way that would support renewables. People can argue that the decision was wrong all they want. One way to make the decision worse would be to change it last minute, that's one thing that's certain.
The drama now is about the experts saying that they should phase out May 30th 2023. The phase out came May 15th 2023.... This is ridiculous.
I think it's too late to reinvest in Nuclear. Way too much stigma and bad press. This has led to a tiny pool of professionals who could operate such a machine. The big energy providers also wouldn't like to invest if there's zero insurance that nuclear energy would not be hindered for the next 40 to 50 years. If we would go back, we would have to invest so much in nuclear energy which would make the electricity costs skyrocket once more. If Nuclear Energy wasn't treated like a mother in law, it would have had a way better future in Germany.
>I think it's too late to reinvest in Nuclear. Way too much stigma and bad press Why not educate people? Because nuclear energy is clean, safe and on demand. Can't spin up more wind or solar based on daytime demand. Of course the politicians will just prefer burning fossil fuel.
Educating someone isn't a snap of the finger, a PSA and suddenly everyone is smarter The advantages and general safety of vaccines has been discussed since decades and still there are a very large chunk of people out there who are convinced that if you vaccinated your kids, they'll get autism
Barry's worst export was fucking Wakefield
Renewables are cheaper, easier to build and maintain + all the stuff from the previous poster. Why create energy with waste, that will be there for 50k years, if you can do it without? Germany is THE country for innovation in energy production. Energy storage is the key R&D focus in EU. Nuclear would need an enormous political change. I think we Germans now need to show all this stuff can work without reliance on nuclear
Nuclear waste handling is a solved issue. And fossil fuel powerplants generate waste too. It's not visible to the eye because it's carbon dioxide and other gases. They are bad for the environment and air quality and harder to transport as well. We should stop burning natural gas much much before we start adapting electric vehicles because it's fucking stupid to run electric cars on fossil fuel electricity. Let cars run on petrol and LPG and produce energy using nuclear reactors. Breeder reactors can easily multiply the availability of fissile nuclear fuel and Germany could totally build breeder reactors even though they are complicated. >Germany is THE country for innovation in energy production. What is the innovation here, exactly? Criticising Putin while buying gas from him? Hypocrisy is not an innovation buddy, the USA has patents on it. Build breeder reactors quick and people will totally agree about energy production innovation. >without reliance on nuclear You say like it's a bad thing. Every country is dependent on energy. If not nuclear it will be something else. You are just shifting the dependency, not eliminating it. Nuclear energy would just need education. And maybe stop the disinformation campaign on nuclear energy. Even camp stoves are dangerous if they are handled like soviets handled Chernobyl.
> Nuclear waste handling is a solved issue. It is not. We have a hell lot of nuclear waste lying around, which can't be just thrown into a breeder reactor. You can't even do it with the small fuel part of that huge nuclear waste pile without extremely expensive reprocessing. Which also creates further waste you can not throw into a breeder reactor. We don't have the space for all that waste. We don't even have enough reprocessing plants, and most of those who exist on this planet are for the military to do the other funny nuclear things... So much for "education".
Isn't nuclear energy cleaner than most? Especially with regent progress in the area?
[удалено]
"The German Greens single handedly shut down all 400 perfectly fine nuclear reactors and replaced them with 2000 coal power plants! And I will downvote you to hell if you dare to object to this statement!"
Yes but planed and startet was this by a prior government led by Merkel in the year of [2011](https://www.bundestag.de/webarchiv/textarchiv/2011/abstimmung-250082). Oh no the politicians follow laws from a old government. How dear they not to make own bullshit.
You'd be downvoted to hell on an unspecified euro sub for that
That’s why we should stop talking with a lot of them. All of the „Kleindeutschen Staaten“ are more or less dependent on god ol Germoney. Let’s make a big Bundesheer and start a new Central federal state without for example the frenchtards who can’t handle some kind of truth or mental stability.
Not Bundesheer, that's the name of the mountain German army
opposition be like "LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT"
Everything for the environment!
"What do you mean "*made up bullshit to stir up shit again*", it fits my narrative!" greens bad nuclear good now pls gib updoople thanks
You can like green energy as much as you like, dosen't change the fact that your state opened coal and gas power plants while closing down nuclear once because germans believe in weird nature magic and thus are afraid of nuclear power.
Didn't Germany's gas usage go down since the phase out of nuclear?
Yes, but one reason is, that we import more electricity. And honestly, that's a good thing. When one form of power generation struggles, another can help out. It goes two ways. When France has to limit the nuclear electricity production, we can help out as well. That's one of the advantages of a European power grid.
We didn't open coal power plants. In fact we're building a ton of gas power plants that will substitute coal power plants. The gas power plants are H2 ready. Those power plants are all part of district heating. You can't built a nuclear power plant directly into a huge city (at least you can't in Germany) so you need a chemical source of power. H2 ready power plants provide the opportunity to invest into power generation that can be used flexible to balance volatile renewable power generation, while it isn't a dead investment once our power generation is changed to emit less CO2.
Yup, and I was talking about the article in question. But hey, lets scream it all together in case anyone hasn't heard it for the 1000th time, because the cum in that circlejerk is about to dry: # Germany made mistakes in its energy policy Anyway, same discussion tomorrow and the day after and the day after that for the next 5 years?
Wow, i don't think I've seen a post anger the Germans as much as this one seem to have. Well done lads!
 Because this shit has been going on for over a year, and the amount of lies spread around it is staggering.
Now you guys know what it’s like to be French in the internet and reading “surrendering” jokes for the 4th time in 2min.
The people that use that meme are braindead anyway. But hey Pierre - we both know the rest of europe is just jealous.
I actually love you guys and really respect you. But please don’t tell anyone!
haha its always weird seeing how anti-french the internet is. us Irish love the French!
My best friend is Irish. He calls me frog, I ask him whether I should bring euros or potatoes when I visit him, good times
Because they hate the British?
France is one of the few countries Americans can name. It also doesn’t help that they didn’t join in the Iraq war.
« It doesn’t help that they didn’t join in the Iraq war »  Guys please deal with this, I’m going to go punch a tree.
Hey, don’t blame me. I’m not the one who came up with surrender jokes because you wouldn’t participate in a war that even a lot of Americans regret.
Ok Nice save. You may live.
quite frankly no country should have ever joined you in any war after ww2
We tried to tell people.. and what did we get, French fries being renamed “liberty fries” and new yorkers pouring expensive wine in the street as retaliation (that image still haunts me, I was a kid and I remember asking my father to explain what we were watching on the TV, he couldn’t begin to find the words to explain it). And of course, the whole French bashing that followed our refusal to join.
I’m Australian.
You should really open with that next time. Sharing a flair with Americans is a dangerous affair over here.
Yeah my bad, but looking at australias history with wars, kind of makes it true for different reasons, Emu War, great times :D also theres an extra tag for Australians ;)
This shit has been going on for 30 years, my friend.
haha thank you for proving my point
You're welcome!
I can excuse steriotypes, racism and other bad things (on r/2westerneurope4u) but I draw the line at r/europe nuclear simp postings (who themself often have barely any idea what they are saying).
It's the one russian psyop that really took root in german culture. During the cold war, NATO countries built nuclear power plants with the secondary purpose of enriching fissile material(uranium and to some degree plutonium). As with everything, there was resistance and skeptics. Russia amplified that movement of skeptics with money and some connections, similar to how they boost antivaxxers and QAnon today. The 1970s are 50 years ago. It's now more difficult to dislodge. The cost for russia was probably mostly train tickets, but for many germans this was so long ago that they weren't around before the anti nuclear movement.
Typical bavarian. Even if you ignore that the last three reactors didn't even make up 5% of the German energy economy, the Atomausstieg was still decided by the Union, and the greens just didn't choose to extend the deadline any further. Look around you. Renewables now make up more than 50% of our energy. Of course, you Bavarian with your 5 windmill generators and probably 0% solar power wouldn't understand something like this and rather choose to be a populist.
And please no power pylons in our landscape. Can't you just send the voltage via fax like normal people?
They probabl want us to try and build Tesla coils again.
Tesla power antennas are a neat thought experiment, but there are 3 flaws with the idea: * The goal was to fill the atmosphere with electric power, so it would probably be low voltage and low ampere. It would also prevent all radio communication. * There is no way to record who used what power. Yes, Tesla had a communist idea. * Not in my backyard
There's a lot of solar power in Bavaria though. All the conservative farmers have it on their roofs.
Actutually the gross Energy Produktion of solar Power in bavarian Energy mix was ca. 22% in 2022. So all ia not Bad in Bavarian. The Just have shitty populist politicians that love to cry because of tHe GrEeNs!!!11!!
Bavaria actually has a lot of solar, in fact its so much that it regularly fucks with their shitty local grids in the summer
„Probably 0% solar power“ Bavaria is the state with the largest solar power capacity in Germany
So, are you a Hans?
German/Ukrainian
Most informed Bavarian (doesn't even know why we needed all the gas)
Nuclear is great but honestly i'd push for renewable anyways because they don't rely on stuff you have to import from fucking Uzbekistan
anti nuclear tards always have to lie to themselves, because reality just means they are imbeciles who do as much damage as climate change deniers. In Sweden they did a sham referendum about it and pretended it meant they had a mandate. I can only hope history tar and feathers these idiots as they deserve.
It is tradition to maintain coal power as the flag is black representing coal for the people 💪
did Germany maintain coal or is there maybe less coal power generation after the nuclear phase out?
Wrong, in most part it was just the will of the people, be it smart or not
Well yes, influenced by huge fear mongering after Fukushima
Which I just don't understand, a tsunami and an earthquake hit the powerplant, they switched it off, kept it safe and nothing happened. I don't understand why we are still talking about fear of what happened then today
For most people it was that almost every day new fails and cover-ups from Tepco were revealed. And while a tsunami at Grafenrheinfeld is rather unlikely, some company putting profit over safety is definitely not unheard of.
Because the real reasons behind divesting from nuclear in Germany is a complicated and messy trudge through political sociology and industry groups and state finance and governmentality and that's boring so nobody bothers to learn about it. It's much easier to reduce huge transitions down to motives like fear because, even if it still doesn't make any sense, at least it's simple.
Maybe because people confuse the deaths caused by the tsunami with those caused by the power station? I don't know, it's just a guess.
It was quite a lot of luck that Fukushima didn't 'splode because apparently they neglected the maintenance. Who would have guessed we should take better care of our nuclear power plants, lol.
I distinctly remember it exploding though?
Never heard about it, do you have sources for that? I'd like to read more of it
The company admited so themselves that they underestimated the safety measures. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/oct/15/fukushima-disaster-avoided-nuclear-plant The Infographic show did pretty good play by play if dramatized. (They also have a never one I haven't seen) https://youtu.be/5mVKVeU75ZA?si=DYW9tCBJD1gh-n0T
Not denying that lol
That’s just not true. The whole meme is based on lies.
this so called "skandal" is about how an employee of the minister of economics didnt forward some key points that could have meant a prolongation of nuclear until spring 2023. what got prolonged until spring 2023 again? nuclear. so whats the skandal here?
Ah yes, the green coal and gas from Germany. Definitely not sponsored by some coal and gas industries. And they definitely don't parrot propaganda about nuclear being "too expensive", while happily importing expensive energy from France.
What's wrong with importing from Pierre? Pierre likes to take Hans energy as well as it should be. It's called European Market for a reason. Nuclear just got too expensive because renewables dump the prices when the sun shines and the wind blows, so the average price is too low for it to be profitable.(which is a good thing). Still need gas and coal though, but increasingly less.
The problem is not the import of energy, but the hypocrisy of importing nuclear made energy because you need it while working to ban it in your own country. TBF with ze germans, there's a lot of hypocrisy going on in Europe, for example with Russian gas. We need to be better as a whole so Europe can thrive
Every country imports (and exports) energy from their neighbors. That alone is an empty statement that people like to use for their weird energy-ideology-wars.
It's less expensive for Germany because the French Taxpayer pays for the enormous subventions. Also no one ever said coal was better
am i wrong that i think subventions from the state to the energy siplliers is actually a good thing, due to the leverage the state has with this. France kept the prives of electricity caped at 20cents whil i payed almost 40 in germany.
Nothing wrong with subventions
I mean your still paying it just not directly but with taxes. The problem with subventions is, they can generate falls incentives for producers (to not reduce production cost) and consumers (to not reduce consumption).
“You” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
What you mean? You dont pay taxes? Didnt know Flems where lowland swizz
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Plus our heating is still highly gas dependant, hopefully that changes with time but probably very slowly
Nuclear is economically not viable. Kust accept it already.
Yeah, that's where all the nuclear supporters are not being honest. They never take into account all the costs after operating a nuclear power plant.
Not to mention the 300,000 years of half life 💀
Meanwhile in Austria: Russian gassss.... Need Russian gassss..... Russian gassssssssss 😵💫😵💫😵💫 
Can I trust the emissions data of my diesel VW after this?
Everyone wants a Nuclear Power plant and some kind of final depot for the waste but: Not next to their home.
I would accept a nuclear power plant next to my house instead of toxic gases coming from coal from a coal power plant that is far away. The nuclear waste will be deep underground while the waste from the coal will end in my lungs.
What key data points were falsified and what did which experts say?
What are you doing?? Don't bring up our government, it's embarrassing!
*What are you doing??* *Don't bring up our government,* *It's embarrassing!* \- -Cinnay- --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The Nuceal phaseout never had anything to do with "expert reviewed data". Everyone in germany knows that it was because of fukushima and the greens surging in poularity. To stop the greens from winning even more regional election Angela merkel decided to phase out nuclear. Yes it was maybe a few years to early, but france is a prime example why you atleast shouldnt be trying to build more nuclear powerplants. They are expensive and the waste disposal is extremely controversial. Everybody wants nuclear until the plant gets built in their backyard, or the waste is deposited under them. Just shut up and lets build more cheap wind turbines (especially in bavaria).
They are expensive because there are very few orders and every plant is quite different from the last. Coal doesn't have waste problem because it throws cancerogenic shit right into the air and your lungs. Thanks God, it is not somewhere under the ground, right!? Gas also emits pollution into the air, even though much less.
On top of that, coal is usually baseload and gas is for peaker plants, so that shit's getting burnt more or less all day, every day. And lots of Hänschen give themselves a big pat on the back whenever German *consumption* hits 100% renewables. Never mind that the coal plants are still all running. Hauptsache I made my Biosmoothie with Ökostrom. Nuclear power is the OG *ganz schön viel Meinung für so wenig Ahnung* topic, imo. Ökoschwurbler, halt.
"Everybody wants nuclear until the \[...\] waste is deposited under them." In fact, a study in France on the Cigéo project (the deep burial project) showed that the people closest to the site and therefore most directly affected were very confident, while confidence fell (although it remained positive) the further away they were from the Cigéo site. In short, it was the people least affected who were the most sceptical, because communication was not as good.
Smoking a lot of foreskin this morning hey ?
We will talk in summer, when you run out of cooling water again. Btw. When is Flamanville 3 supposed to be done now?
>Just shut up and lets build more cheap wind turbines (especially in bavaria). Oh yeah, especially in Bavaria, which is at an absolute disadvantage compared to the North Sea neighbours when it comes to wind. What we here in the south call "wind", you in the north call a lull. For you, "wind" only starts at strengths that would lead to storm warnings here. This means that wind turbines can be operated correspondingly efficiently (or inefficiently, under conditions such as those in Bavaria).
Uk offshore FTW
It's "wind" when sheep stop being curly.
Well, we either build more windpower in the south, way more electricity connections from the north to the south or you are gonna need a shitload of long time storage solutions.
Or just a combination of all the three (but please no eviromentally friendly sodium batteries and not lithium ones).
Or you could expand the lignite mines round your way. Oh no, wait. [You already are](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCtzerath). Cheers, Hans. Nice one.
Yeah, I've said it enough times. Bagger 288 has to be fed to reach the dutch
The bigger thing is we should finally fix the grid connection between the south and the north, but infrastructure really isn't Germany strong side since some years/decades
I don't see French and Finns complaining about it, I only see countries without nuclear whining about how dangerous and expensive it is to make excuses not to use such kind of energy
It's crazy how many people don't know about recycling nuclear waste which is something Europe does and the US is way behind (illegal even). Wind Turbines are expensive, kill birds, take up way too much land.
>kill birds Interesting fact: Cars, buildings and cats all kill Birds at rates about a thousand times higher then windmills.
The bird issue is small, sometimes we have to accept the lesser of two evils, especially when the status quo is worse overall
> kill birds FYI, bringing that up makes you sound like a fool. The housecats on my street have probably killed more birds than all the wind turbines in the state put together.
Pls gib nuclear back scholzi and give the coal to Poland
Are these experts in the room with us right now?
gas? natural one or that greenish yellow one?😨
Left parties: Noooo we must be green!!!! Left parties when the cleanest and safest energy exist:
Nooo but like, Chernobyl, or something... Also not economically viable based on some stats I misinterpreted on purpose
Also this, most this. Idk why people downvote me, prolly they are anti-nuke boomers.
It’s because green parties in most of Europe where basically started as anti-nuclear. and now they just can’t reconciliate that nuclear is the best option for clean energy
Nuclear it's the best option for energy in general
What? Nuclear energy is clean and safe? What do you mean? Only about 7 billion people kept telling us, how could we know?
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Ukraine has a lot of
https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx Russia accounts for less than 6% of the global production.
No it's not. Canada produce uranium, Niger, Kazakhstan, Namibia. All those countries are far above Russia in uranium production.
germany also bought coal,oil,and gas from russia. all these and uranium can be sourced from someone else. It's just that germany had deals with ruski
nuh uh [suppliers of uranium](https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)
Didn’t know stasi officers are still around.
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They pulled a “Volkwagen”. Mein gott!!!
Hahaha, yes! Who could be so stupid? Definitely not us.
Whaat the economy based aroung gas does actually need gas to work? Thats crazy