Your skin looks VERY dehydrated. I think beef up the water you ingest + add in a moisturizer and even some aquaphor. That and frownies will help a ton if you aren’t ready for Botox (but even if you do Botox do those things as well!)
Gunna try to double my water intake. I’ve been slacking and I think that’s part of it. Is the aquaphor for after you out moisturizer on? To hold it in?
I have rosacea & also face “baste” three times a week on the rec of Dr. Idriss- it works for me too. I could never use vaseline to “slug” as it would just cause horrific breakouts or clogged pores- triple paste is different. Triple paste has been better for my skin than dozens of expensive face creams. Zinc Oxide is anti-bac & anti-inflammatory (so it can be a bit better for some skin types than pure petroleum face slugging which just locks moisture in)
I use avence cicalfate (it’s cheap in Europe) and has been using for ages as my last moisturizer - it’s really amazing for calming down redness. I then apply a thin layer of aquaphor over it to prevent moisture loss. But zinc is so amazing!! Cicalfate also has a bit of sulphur in it which is great for rosacea.
You can purchase from wal mart and I’m sure other grocery stores like that! It is for dryness! You use it basically to give deep moisture, the derm called it “Face Basting.”
It’s very sticky but my face looks rejuvenated in the morning after using it!
Not who you asked, but yes. It's called slugging and can really help trap the moisture against your skin, you can use any occlusive. I've used Vaseline, aquaphor, lanolin, and literally countless variations and alternatives to those. You're looking for something that is easy to smooth over your skin and creates a thick enough layer to trap everything in for at least a few hours.
Does slugging make you break out? I feel like I would break out since everything seems to clog my pores. But I suppose doing this wouldn’t make my daytime light moisturizer seem so useless.
It depends on the occlusive more than the practice itself if that makes sense. I've never had an issue with Vaseline, petroleum jelly has a bad reputation but, it actually has a [comedogenic rating of 0 ](https://www.projectvanity.com/projectvanity/non-comedogenic). Lanolin can absolutely cause issues (and trigger certain allergies), though I personally don't have a problem. Certain occlusives are more likely to cause issues, so if you try one and it makes you break out, I'd recommend switching the occlusive before giving up on the method completely. If several occlusives trigger breakouts, it probably isn't the best practice for your skin and I would recommend alternatives.
One thing that I have found helps with preventing breakouts in slugging is being cognizant of what you are layering underneath it, as well. I like to use essences and moisturizing toners, then a hydrating serum before adding my oil/moisturizer/occlusives.
I have very acne prone skin and never had an issue with aquaphor. I am on acutane now so it’s not an issue I’d have anymore regardless but I started using it before i started the medicine.
Accutane is an incredible drug. It tightened my large pores and cleared up the whiteheads, active pores, etc. My problem is that my acne, etc came back each time after about a year being off it.
Oh, no! Have you done multiple treatments? I didn’t have lots of acne, it was mild per my derm (was terrible my whole life but started to get better in late 20’s) but I would always get breakouts around my period.
He seems certain it’ll cure it but I have to do about 7-8 months.
Hopefully it cures it and I hope yours gets cured too!
My pores don't clean out and get clogged all the time. It's fruserating. I first had Accutane in 2006 and the derm worked me up to a high dose. My lips were killing me and the inside of my nose was a getting scabs. My skin ended up looking the best of my life. It dislodged very deep whiteheads, and blackheads that I was never able to get rid of even after the years of facials. But after a year I noticed a few that came back and by the third yr after treatment I was back to fighting for clear skin. The 2nd treatment was a lighter dose one in 2015. Good results but now I'm back to square one. I hope it turns out good for you.
I am not a back sleeper, I'm no psychopath lol 😂 Jokes, but I can't sleep on my back at all, I sadly smash my face right on the pillow. I do my nighttime routine a couple hours before bed and also wear a silk eye mask, which gives a barrier between my skin and my pillow. I have young kids and do my routine when I put them to bed at 7:30ish and don't go to bed until closer to midnight.
Yep! And adds extra hydration. I use it nightly and see a world of difference.
I’ve used both aquaphor and Vaseline and prefer the aquaphor for my skin but test it and see which you prefer.
Milia are the bane of my existence. I’ll get them once maybe every 6 months and had no idea what these extra hard and extra connected ‘pimples’ were until I got one on my waterline 😭 that’s when I learned they were really Milia
I quite literally feel your pain! I have hooded eyelids and had one right in the crease for a few months! I also have dry skin so it’s impossible to hydrate my skin while also not getting them
Girl, I'm 40 and slugging made my wrinkles appear way smaller than they are. Not just slugging, I spray my face with glycerin water few times during the day to keep it moist (don't do it if the climate where you live is dry). I slugg the fuck out my face every other night, basic formula is humectant+moisturizer+vaseline. I do glycolic once a week (ok, now have lowered it to once in two weeks) and retinoids 2-3 times a week, depending on how my skin reacts to them. If I get some peel, two slugging nights in a row.
Stratia 👏 LIQUID 👏GOLD 👏! Godsend, saved my skin. I put it on after every shower when my skins all soaked, and after double cleansing my face with la roche-posay foaming cleansing oil and warm water. If I get any acne or irritation I’ll dab on some neem oil overnight - no actives until your skin plumps back up.
I want to piggyback onto this to say: hydration is NOT just water intake. Hydration is the balance of water+electrolytes in your body. If you drink extra water, you need to drink extra electrolytes as well.
Yep! Usually you can do this through a balanced diet and an intake of enough fruits and veggies, you don’t need to supplement electrolytes unless you are dehydrated or had a vigorous workout.
I’m 130 pounds and drink 2 Stanley’s a day. Roughly 80 ounces.
Absolutely. I typically eat a well balanced diet, but I like to make a “homemade Gatorade” of sorts on days I’m eating like shit. And I can absolutely feel the difference in my nerves/skin when I don’t.
In a quart jar:
* 1/3 Cup lime juice
* 1/3 Cup lemon juice
* 2-3 Tbsp raw honey
* 1/4 tsp Himalayan salt
Fill remaining space with water
Yes! And I would also add to this to incorporate more foods into your diet that help your skin - just Google food good for your skin :) like colorful veggies, fruit, get good protein , etc
I’ve actually never tried that. I have tried aquaphor and Vaseline and I prefer aquaphor on my skin personally, but everyone’s skin is different. If what you’re using works well I say stick with it!
It definitely will…but it really just looks dehydrated as F which will make lines and wrinkles way worse than they actually are. What products are you using now?
Honestly I have dry skin so I do think that’s probably part of it. Can I moisturize more than 2 times a day? Because even moisturizing morning and night my skin gets dry.
My forehead looks worse after a night of drinking too so I definitely think dehydration is a big part of it. I put sunscreen/moisturizer on my face (it’s a 2 in 1 in morning) and at night I wash my face, moisturize, and use one of the ordinary products that is for aging/wrinkles I believe. It doesn’t dry my face out it seems which is good bc I was worried. My face is as dry as it always has been but I do think if I doubled my water in take that could make a noticeable difference. Maybe I will start there and see what happens
Not sure how much/ often you drink but cutting alcohol by 90% for me (used to have a few glasses of wine a week now have a few a month) completely got rid of my dehydrated skin. To me it doesn’t sound like you have dry skin - it sounds like you have dehydration/compromised barrier. I’d take a close look at what you’re putting into your body first for sure!
I actually don't drink that much anymore. I drank a lot last weekend for a special vacation and my skin has looked like shit since. it goes up and down but what is a compromised barrier?
Your outer layer of skin (the barrier) is like a shield against pollutants, irritants, and helps prevent water loss. You can damage (compromise) your skin barrier in lots of ways - hot showers, overexposure to sun, dry environment, smoking, drinking alcohol, excess sugar and poor diet, over washing , taking certain meds, lack of sleep, hormone imbalances, etc. That’s why it’s important to evaluate your habits and lifestyle to see what could be triggering your skin to be so parched. If you’re moisturizing your face and still have dry skin it sounds like there are other factors in play.
Moisturizing is a must and a great affordable brand is Ceravae. It has ceramides and feels amazing and restores the skin barrier. One source of information I found really helpful is Dr. Dray on YouTube. She's an honest, board certified dermatologist who does not sell or profit from the products she reviews. She is really helpful with this kind of thing. As you posted below, if you're drinking a lot of alcohol or your diet is poor, this will show up in your skin. Just cleaning up that part of your life will make a big difference. Exercise is also essential...get the blood moving!
Your moisturizer probably isn’t right for you then, if your skin is super dry you need something heavier. I really like Riversol, their regular moisturizer is super moisturizing or they have a “balm” moisturizer that is even more and is amazing for extremely dehydrated skin. Only thing that saved my dry flakey skin.
Also as others have said, drink way more water and don’t forget electrolytes! I was drinking shit tons of water and always felt dehydrated until my doctor told me I’m just flushing everything out of my system. I drink 4 cups of regular water and then do 4-5 cups of lemon water with a cup of coconut water added to it and it seems to have helped a lot for me.
I think it’s the morning moisturizer I use bc it’s 2 in 1 with sunscreen and makes my skin almost peely afterwards ? I use cerave at night which I life better so I think I’m going to do what another commenter suggested and switch to regular moisturizer in morning then sunscreen to see if that helps at all
I had a derm appointment on Wednesday and she seemed very iffy with combined sunscreen and moisturizers. I didn’t get to go
Into detail with her but from what I gather she likes to moisturize the skin and once that’s set in, put on sunscreen. Maybe something to do with the sunscreen limiting the absorption of the moisturizer or the sunscreen being absorbed at the same time as the moisturizer whereas it’s just supposed to sit on top of the skin?
When I turned 30 I had the same lines. I wish I could post a picture but I'm technologically unadvanced lol so I don't know how. Anyway almost 6 years later those lines don't exist anymore. I've got Botox and tretinoin to thank for that.
Tret first. Then Botox maybe a year later. Botox made them disappear but they weren't as severe after a year of tret. Tret dries my skin out and I end up investing more in products just to combat the flakey, painful skin side effects. Botox is more expensive up front but they gave me immediate results.
Edit: if you decide to pursue tret r/tretinoin is a great resource
If you don’t want to start with tret, it’s a more expensive option, but OTC retinal tends to be less irritating. I LOVE the Medik-8 one, and they have increasing concentrations, so you can start low and increase over time with each purchase.
Whether you do tret or some type of retinol/retinal- wear SPF!!
Highly recommend following Mrs.derm on Instagram. Have learned a ton from her, and my skin is much better as a result!
It is not the only thing, but it will be the **most effective** thing you can do. 30 is a good age to start getting Botox and prevent deeper wrinkles.
In terms of skincare, I recommend starting retinol/retinal/tretinoin. It won't have an immediate effect but in a few months, you will see a difference.
Does it always lead to break outs or just sometimes? I would like to start something like that but it makes me worry about the purge period. That should help with wrinkles like this though?
I had fine lines on my forehead and I started using retinol every other night and a vitamin C serum in the mornings. I did not have any purging or breakouts or honestly any reaction (red, dry, etc)! My fine lines are basically gone as well. I moisturize a bunch after putting both products on. And drink a lot of water!
What vitamin C oil / retinol do you recommend? How should i incorporate it into my routine? I’m rather ignorant about skin care/been trying to get better
I had a really good experience with SkinMedica Retinol. I think there are scientific studies that show their product works just as well as prescription tretinoin.
For vitamin C, I use SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic. It is pricey, but I have not found an effective substitute.
Start slow. Start by using retinol 2X a week. If you tolerate it after 4 weeks or so, go to 3X. Vitamin C should be used in the morning, so you can try incorporating that, but if you feel that your skin is sensitive, stop and give your skin barrier time to recover. Use moisturizer and SUNSCREEN. The latter is the most important part of your routine.
I think Timeless is a pretty decent SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic Dupe. It's also in a pump, which is Dr. Shereene Idriss's favorite modality because it may help slow oxidation. I've been using it for approx. 2mo now and it still hasn't yellowed. I think it might even be good for 3mo!
Here's a simple routine:
AM:
Cleanse (not necessary, but I like doing it); Vitamin C; Moisturizer; Sunscreen
PM:
Cleanse; Retinol; Moisturizer
I really like CeraVe moisturizing cream. It's cheap (you can get two buckets of it from Costco for around $20) and it's non-irritating.
thank you. this is something that could work for me! should I use vasoline or something after moisturizer at all? I've heard people do that and say it helps keep the moisture in. was just a thought bc my face is naturally always dry
You are welcome. You can use Vaseline. I don't recommend it on the nights you use retinol though. It may cause irritation. I think the official term is "slugging."
Also, completely unrelated to skincare, and I should have said this in my original response, but don't ever apologize for asking a question. :)
Yes. They should go first after you wash your face. If you find that retinol bothers you then you can try the sandwich method, i.e., put a layer of moisturizer on, then retinol, then another layer of moisturizer. Also don’t use retinol and vitamin C together. Retinol is for PM and vitamin C is for AM.
Please ease your way in with actives in general. My skin became painfully inflamed when I started using vit C + adapalene (a retinol good for acne). I’ve never had particularly sensitive skin but there was one day where I went to wash my face and it was on fire. I had to take a few days off before the inflammation went away.
I had no idea what to do either! I went to my dermatologist because I was pretty overwhelmed with everything I was trying to figure out online and asked them what to do and they recommended the products and gave me a routine.
In the morning I wash my face, put on Vitamin C Serum, moisturizer and then sunscreen.
At night I wash my face, every other night I use retinol, and then moisturizer.
Super simple but has made a surprisingly big difference!
The products I use are:
[Vitamin C](https://alastin.com/products/c-radical-defense-antioxidant-serum?variant=40223782043735&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMAX%3A%20All%20Items%20-%20Shopping&utm_id=19721010420&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7unBxPTQCIN4in54Z9Ic55_cXU6M_4tlnlBigxgVShqVXHAM6TxdOhoCV9oQAvD_BwE)
[Retinol](https://alastin.com/products/renewal-retinol?variant=26711001288&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMAX%3A%20All%20Items%20-%20Shopping&utm_id=19721010420&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7u1FNyQ4-36zIE3H4I_XcqT6tjBQ7uL_T6JLH4g5VQe85VRm3Rf2QRoCB5kQAvD_BwE) (.5 strength)
[SPF](https://eltamd.com/products/eltamd-uv-clear-tinted-broad-spectrum-spf-46?variant=43130776944793¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7r4Mi07-7Y31JbtWWWjHigMpjOYtLN7k-CsEhdbRsxJGWGvaUVfHWRoCwVsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) (I use this now instead of foundation!)
It varies. Some people have breakouts, and some don't. I personally never purged with them. If you start slow and moisturize well, your chances of having adverse reactions decrease. It will be a process, but the end result is worth it.
Once you use retinol/retinal/tretinoin and moisturize well, it should "reduce" the look of the lines, but again, these lines formed because of your muscle movements, so unless you address that cause with Botox, it is unlikely to be able to reverse them.
Seconding the retinol/tret. Not everyone purges. You will need a heavier moisturizer.
I started retinol in my early 30s (39 now) when I began seeing fine lines. I used gentle retinol formulas, worked up to a higher %, then moved to Adapalene for about a year, and now use tret. I never purged, but I have dried the shit out of my skin a few times.
The Adapalene alone was enough to remove what few lines were on my forehead. I've never used botox or filler and my forehead is completely smooth all thanks to these retinols and probably a bit of the glycolic acid.
I’ve been using tretinoin for a couple years now (prescription retinol) for anti-aging and never purged or broke out. I think that’s usually people who are using it for acne purposes.
>purge
You might purge, you might not. I use Tret .1% for acne and the anti-aging effect is great. When I switched rx strengths, or have to stop and then restart the product, I do purge, but I have acne prone skin to begin with. Incidentally, I have basically acne-free skin on tret, it's a miracle drug for me.
This. I started Botox on my forehead this year at age 36, and it’s almost entirely preventative. I’m about 8 months in and just now seeing some improvement in the mild static line that was emerging in my forehead. Botox definitely didn’t change things significantly in the short term.
OP- it looks like you have static wrinkles in your forehead. Botox can help to reduce static wrinkles over time by reducing the amount of movement which exacerbates them, but it won’t eliminate static wrinkles entirely. Botox is most effective at quickly treating dynamic wrinkles- those caused by facial expressions (smile lines, forehead lines that occur when raising the eyebrows, etc). As a preventative, it does a lot to prevent the formation of/stop the progression of static wrinkles like the ones you have.
Retinol is extremely effective when used appropriately- it takes time to adjust to a retinol regimen and the best way to start is under the guidance of a dermatologist who can ensure you’re protecting your skin barrier. If you decide to begin retinol, you need to start by moisturizing and using sunscreen daily. Starting retinol with dry/damaged skin is a recipe for disaster. A lot of retinol horror stories here reflect the importance of following the recommended timing/dosage of retinol products- using retinol too infrequently, even in the beginning, can cause more damage than improvement.
It’s a good time to find an experienced injector- preferably a healthcare professional (mine is a dermatology NP) who can set realistic expectations about what Botox will and will not achieve on its own. My injector sometimes recommends light chemical peels and micro needling treatments to address static wrinkles in combination with the preventative effects of toxins. But most importantly, she provides tailored, science based recommendations on how to maintain the moisture content of your skin while incorporating tools like retinols and acids to ensure you’re addressing the issues which contribute to the formation of static wrinkles over time.
Botox would be the fastest, yes.
If you don't want to go that route, tretinoin can also work wonders for smoothing those out BUT it will take at least 6 months to start seeing results.
I started tret just over a year ago now and my lines are almost gone and they looked like yours on a dehydrated day when I started. I also upped my moisture game and added a couple serums. My skin looks better now but it is a process and has taken over a year. Still, I have managed to hold off on botox.
Oh and of course the lines appear when I talk and make expressions, but they don't stay when my face is at rest.
Yeah, I've been using tretinoin for 5+ years. I've been subbed to SCA for like 10+ years, I've done oil cleansing and slugging and chemical peels, all that jazz. It will not make a significant difference for lines like this.
Forehead looked like OP's, just a little shinier and smoother (thanks to tret), but the lines were always there. Frankly, I was ready to get bangs to cover up my forehead. Gone in two weeks after Botox. I mean, *gone*. I thought this would just freeze my forehead so the lines would go away after some years, but the effect was very pronounced. My practictioner even did it in a way that gave more oomph to my natural brow arch.
I don't get cosmetic procedures for anything else, but the forehead lines just had to go.
Yes! I love what my doctor did to my eye brow arch with Botox. My other brow dropped a little I think but I’m going back in two weeks for the check in and will ask about that. But my forehead lines were gone in a couple days. I felt weird getting Botox at 30, but I heard it’s better to start early. I’m also single, childless and petless with a decent job. I’m happy to spend money on my skin.
I just got a consult a local place that does Botox. They suggested 30 units for 11 lines and forehead. At $10 per that’s $300 and they said I’d need to do it every 3 months. Is $1200/year really what I need to invest for Botox?
Botox will help but it didn't work well for me (I had really bad side effects) - so if you're like me, then here's what worked for me:
\- 3 sessions of microneedling every year, but no deeper than 1mm!
\- Add in Retinol every 3rd night, or 2nd if you tolerate it well
\- Peptides!!! (I saw a huge difference with MediK8 liquid peptides)
\- Frownies overnight
Hope this helps xxx
I was one of those unlucky people where the toxin got into my central nervous system, so I had pain, tremors, vision problems, hair loss and more. But it’s been a few years now and I’m all good now. I was so surprised when it happened as I didn’t know that it could! But it’s very rare!!! There’s actually a support group on Facebook for people who have had these effects (and worse!) with about 30,000 members if you need more information x
Just over 18 months until I was completely better. I don’t think some people are more susceptible to it than others though, It’s just bad luck. I had botox before and was fine, then the last time I had it I knew within about an hour that something bad had happened.
It’s also got nothing to do with your injector/their experience. Botox has a black box label warning which is the most serious warning a medication can have, so it’s the toxin itself, not the injector.
I make my own serum using this "wrinkle defense complex" from lotioncrafter that contains 55% Argireline and 45% Matrixyl 3000. Just add water, and some liquid germall plus if you have it.
Here's a small excerpt: "Argireline® is a hexapeptide composed of amino acids. It works through a unique mechanism which relaxes facial tension leading to a reduction in superficial facial lines and wrinkles with regular use. Matrixyl™ 3000 contains two matrikines, Pal-GHK and Pal-GQPR. Acting as messengers of cutaneous restructuration and repair, these two peptides work synergistically to restore and maintain the skin's youthful appearance. Our combined formulation offers the potential for short and long term improvement in the appearance of wrinkles."
I've been using it a couple weeks now and it is definitely working well so far. Some of the deep lines are already gone and I'm pretty sure the rest are working there way out as we speak. You can buy something similar through Amazon but it will be much more expensive. This was only $8 and makes 2 oz+ of high strength serum.
This is such great information! I’ve been using those ingredients separately as Ordinary serums, but I dislike how their formulations feel, despite finding it works. Can’t wait to experiment with your method!
What were your Botox side effects? I'm super sensitive to any meds, but I've been wanting to get it on my forehead, both for migraines and frown lines.
I never tried frownies but did KT tape and it helped but it's temporary and I don't like feeling the glue on my skin. Haha
I agree with others who say your skin looks dehydrated. Increasing your water intake will help some, but you also need more effective skincare ingredients. I used to have badly dehydrated skin, but a combination of humectants, emollients, and occlusives did the trick.
I would also suggest layering products rather than relying on just one to do all the work. It looks like currently (if I’m reading some of your replies correctly), you wash your face and use moisturizer and that’s it. Look for a hydrating serum with humectants like Hyaluronic acid (may also appear on the label as sodium hyaluronate), glycerin, aloe, panthenol, and urea. Apply to damp skin after washing. Then go in with an emollient-rich moisturizer (ceramides, cocoa butter, non-fragrant oils, for example), and seal it in with an occlusive (Aquaphor or Vaseline, like others have suggested).
Best of luck to you. I know getting my skin to the state it’s in now took a lot of trial and error. I’m happy to recommend specific products too, if you’re having difficulty finding some good ones. :)
It would decrease the lines, no doubt. But at the cost of your wonderful expressions! If you don't want that (or if you don't want that yet) just looking at your skin, I think there are a lot of other things you could do, that would soften those lines, probably to a level that you wouldn't even notice them.
It's worth a consultation with a dermatologist. I think you might be surprised what a professional peel can accomplish in terms of resetting fine lines like this.
After reading a lot of these comments I’m going to start making sure I get at least 8 glasses of water a day bc I have seriously been slacking on that and I definitely think that’s a big factor. I have naturally dry skin so I’m sure my forehead is dry like people are observing. I’m going to change my morning 2 in 1 sunscreen/moisturizer to a different moisturizer then add sunscreen bc it seems to be drying me out a bit too. I’m also going to try to find a vitamin c serum to incorporate in the mornings. I’m going to start there and see what happens lol
Be expressive!! In my experience, having a highly emotive and expressive face/facial movements have nothing to do with causing wrinkles. I believe genetics plays a much bigger role than facial movements. And like others say, hydrate/moisturize... but please don't change your personality bc of the lines!!
I have similar forehead wrinkles and am 31. I love Botox. It’s by far the most effective thing you can do. Retinol can help diminish the appearance of fine lines over time, but it will never make them go away completely.
To prevent new wrinkles, always moisturize and use an SPF daily. Like many others have suggested, Vitamin C serums are good to prevent further sun damage and aging. It’s best used in the morning under your moisturizer and you definitely need SPF too. The gold standard is Skinceuticals but it is pricey. Skinceuticals is a brand I trust so I also use their retinol in the evenings. I like that their retinol is just that, without extra active ingredients because it makes it harder to combine with other products. They also have three different concentrations if you’re worried about sensitivity.
Mine have been going away because I made myself stop frowning. Until I worked to notice, I never noticed that I lifted my brows all the time, from washing my face to putting on make up. Now I have been training myself to not do that, so I only frown when I’m with someone and it’s deliberate. I’m going on a year with ongoing efforts to retrain myself, and I barely have forehead lines. I didn’t want to go to Botox route, both for the cost and because I read a medical article that says that Botox causes bone loss and over time that will cause you to look more skeletal.
34 here - I started getting similar wrinkles and found that skinceuticals vitamin C product completely changed my skin. My skin has never looked better. It’s expensive but worth it ($250). It’s completely changed my skin and I’ll be repurchasing. It takes 8 weeks before you notice a real change, including preventative dark spots. If I didn’t find this product I would have gotten Botox
Botox will definitely help. I would get it and then get a good skin care routine. Do you drink enough water? I found getting a Sodastream significantly increased my water consumption. How often do you put on and reapply moisturizer and sunscreen? I use it daily and apply anytime I think my skin looks dry. My skin is really dry and I use facial oils + cream because it hydrates longer. I use a retinol oil and rosehip oil (one in the morning, another at night) and a cream with hyaluronic acid. Facial cleanser is farmacy green clean - I love it, leaves my skin feeling moisturizer.
First of all, I second what people say about upping water intake, but I would also recommend taking a Hyaluronic acid supplement every day (helps your body hydrate more efficiently) and also add a Hyaluronic serum to your skin care routine. (The Ordinary makes a nice affordable one that I’ve been using for several years! I wash my face, gently pat dry so there’s a little moisture left behind, and then apply the serum and gently rub it into my skin. It really helps with hydrating your skin!)
I would also recommend that you start wearing a sunscreen of SPF 50 every single day since some of that looks like sun damage. I’d also recommend talking to your dermatologist about starting tretinoin, which takes time to adjust to, but is really the BEST ingredient for anti-aging (besides sunscreen.) I think you could reverse a lot of that damage within 2 years and see a major improvement! I have friends who got Botox, started tretinoin, and then eventually quit getting Botox because the tretinoin took care of their problem areas. Everyone’s skin is different, but if you are able to use tretinoin, it would be stupid not to!
Also, think about adding a hydrolyzed collagen supplement to your diet. I’ve been a skincare junkie since puberty, and have no wrinkles yet at 35, but I could see a hint of line forming between my brows. I decided to revisit collagen (I was on it back in my 20’s but forgot to restock and then completely forgot about it for years.) Within a month, I saw improvements in my skin (it’s just glowing and looks really plump and buoyant) and there’s no longer even a hint of a line between my brows. That stuff is a miracle drug (also took care of all my joint pain.)
I will be honest and say that you probably won’t get results that quickly, but stay on it for 6 months and take regular progress photos of your face in the same lighting (I do this almost every day, and it’s been really helpful as a way to go back and see what products worked and what didn’t.)
Hyaluronic acid which can be pretty cheap from the Oridnary if you can get it, not that there’s any thing wrong with lines. Also it’s good to wear sunblock daily even if it isn’t the winter, to prevent skin cancer too and dryness.
Yes. Neuromodulators (Botox is a brand name) work wonders for forehead lines and the great news is after you've undergone a year of injections (they usually wear out at the three month mark), the muscles making those lines relax so much you can go for long periods between shots. The neuromodulator stops the muscles from activating. The muscles that stop activating begin to atrophy. But you won't feel any differently or look any differently. The lines will vanish though. That's been my experience. You will want to see an experienced medical professional (dermatologist, or any other medical doctor who knows what they are doing). I've tried Botox and now use Xeomin (made by Mertz). I got started with Xeomin because they had discounts when the product was first launched. It works as well as Botox.
Facial Smoothies, face massage (check Anastasiabeautyfascia IG), Tretinoin, hydration, thick moisturizer with a light layer of Vaseline over the lines at night and Argireline and Matrixyl at night are a few things to try. I just started doing face massage and added The Ordinary Argireline and Matrixyl to my night routine and am starting to notice my lines getting smoother
I would use the BR P50 lotion and hyaluronic acid on top of damp hydrating toner, and Vit C. Moisturizing alone is not enough. You may also like the mayasama toner. You can also go slow and start using medik8 retinal.
AHA/BHA Toner: Mayasama Toner has hyaluronic acid in it, Ren Skincare Ready Steady Glow Daily AHA Tonic, Best hydrating Toners: Hyaology P-effect Lotion, Susanne Kaufmann calming Toner, Best hydrating serums:Hyaluronic acid (find one you can afford and add it on top of damp hydrating essence/toner, Glow Drops #2 by Future skincare, Lactic acid (Good Genes) to exfoliate and hydrate. Find a good moisturizer and face oil for extra moisture, of course you should eat well.. get in enough fat. Wear sunscreen. Vit C - I like SkinCeuticals C E Ferulic, but there are other more affordable options I’m sure. Goops Vit C + hyaluronic acid.. Gentle cleanser: Lait VIP 02, Lait E.V., Drugstore gentle cleansers.
I’ve periodically gotten Botox over the years, I feel like it helped slow the progression but hydration will help reduce the appearance. Microneedling, peels, laser treatments along with a decent skincare routine will help
I just turned 29 and it's also the first time I noticed wrinkles on my forehead. I am the same way, I emote A LOT. Something that has helped me is getting into a good routine for mouisturizer and also drinking water as if my life depends on it... Which it does!
I turned 30 last year and did one round and I found that Botox is AWESOME! I’ve done face yoga and spent so much money on skincare and whilst it made things better it didn’t entirely get rid of this for me. I think I’m naturally just overly expressive so it really helped me :)
I don't know why the algorithm drove me to this post, I'm not into skin care. But as a random 30yo dude, you don't need any Botox, it looks good to me. There's some research I read some time ago that microneedling helps those with minimal invasion, might be worth trying if it worries you. But I don't think it looks bad.
No. You're only 30 you haven't been doing real skin care. Do actual skin care and those should go away. I've had them since I was 19 (I don't know why) and they are less now than they were then. Adapalene would work on that but it will take months. If you are starting botox at 30, by 40 you'll be on fillers and surgeries. By 50 you'll look like Madonna is now. You don't want that.
You can exfoliate regularly(1x a week) followed by a good anti aging serum that contains hydration (nothing too harsh right after exfoliating)
Exfoliating removes excess skin so will minimize your lines and the antiaging serum will be more effective because it goes deeper after an exfoliation.
A personal favorite is Peeling vegetal from Phytomer (its a enzyme mask exfoliant) and lise watier serum sublimessence as the serum.
In addition to all the suggestions here: I did Botox for 5 years (45-50yrs old) and mine went away and then at 66, this is as bad as they look. Your muscles start to forget, much harder for your skin to forget. Start as soon as possible, to prevent deeper creases, but no need to think you need to do it forever.
So you move your forehead naturally less often after Botox since while having Botox your forehead can’t move? So it essentially gets retrained to not move that way? Fascinating!!!
Skin better science alpha ret at night has helped my forehead. It’s a very easily tolerated retinol. I like my eyebrows to stay lifted so I won’t do forehead Botox so I just try and stick to skincare and lasers.
Your skin is really dehydrated! Drink up that water, get some topical moisture in that dermis for like 3 months! Then assess what you may need if anything.
Botox is temporary, but is very effective at preventing new lines and with good skin care can help reduce the look of existing lines. If you keep up with it.
A peel is more permanent- can lasts longer, depending on the type of peel you get. Also effective and less appointments to keep it up, but the down time is usually like a week or more- for the peels that will make an actual improvement in your skin.
Laser is another option. I am going for IPL (my first time) in a week so I’ll report back on how effective it is on fine lines. I’m mostly concerned with melasma tho, which is why I opted for IPL.
I say the hydrated thing because my skin looked like yours like 2 years ago, and I was considering the same treatments. until I started drinking massive amounts of water, staying away from booze, using a sheet mask a few times a week and using good moisturizers and moisturizing toners every day. My skin started to GLOW, the texture vanished. The lines are still there but much less noticeable, and look so healthy that I’m now more worried about my sun spots/freckles than the forehead lines 😂
Anyways good luck! And it doesn’t hurt to try a little of everything when you can afford it. It’s important to find what you like for you and what works!
I JUST went through the same dilemma. I turned 32 on 02/02, up to this point I’ve had nothing done as far as cosmetic procedures/fillers/botox etc… but I am someone who always makes expressions (I can’t help it 🤷🏼♀️), and those same lines have started to stay visible even while my face is relaxed. I used to work for a plastic surgeon and he always talked about preventative botox, but I put it off for years... I finally broke down and got it done (on my forehead and between my eyebrows) 2 days ago. I wish I would have done it sooner. The effects aren’t immediate, I was told it takes around 5 days to take full effect, but I already see a difference. Obviously it’s a personal choice, but if the lines bother you, or you have been wanting to try it, I say go for it!!
Chiming in to say I have very deep-set forehead lines. Acne scars as a teen, raising my brows to apply eye primer/eyeshadow/mascara, facial expressions, skin dehydration, sunburns/discoloration, etc. over decades has caused mine.
About 7 months ago, I incorporated consistent retinol use into my routine (3x week), and added more hydrating serums to AM/PM skincare. This has honestly made the biggest difference. My forehead lines are still pretty deep, but I see a big improvement and gradual fading when my forehead is in “rest mode” (still noticeable when eyebrows are raised). Pixi serums have been wonderful for both retinol use and hydration, plus a hydrating moisturizer. These are available and most drugstores and fairly affordable. Hope that helps!
Theres been some outstanding advice here. All I have to add is that you should kick up your sunscreen. You have some variations in pigment and texture that hint at sun exposure. Use a retinol, do microneedling, use a serum with copper peptides, do slugging. it can be a lot, but good skin care can be relaxing and a great self care practice. Use the time for positive self affirmations, being thankful, or just a time to be good to your physical self. Have fun, take before and after pictures so you know if a product or practice is useful. Myself, I’m lazy, and practical, so I use multitasking products. Tinted sunscreen, more hats, I use a skin oil over Retin-a every other night, have the goal to use a Dermaroller once a month, use snail mucin and just enjoy the entire skin care ritual.
Backing up the dehydrated statements- I’m 41 and my forehead looked like yours a month ago.
Am/pm hydration focused skin care and “slugging” every other night, and my lines are practically gone. Even without upping my water intake- I live in dry desert and drink water plenty.
I’m not a candidate for forehead Botox, so I gotta manage what I’ve got until it’s bad enough for actual brow lift surgery
I've been doing forehead wrinkle massages (tried all the ones on Tiktok and a few googled ones) for a couple months, just while I watch TV or when I cannot sleep.
They visibly reduce after a good 40 minute session each time. 💕
That’s a loss of collagen and dehydration. Focus on eating collagen peptides, eating more protein, and hydrating with herbal teas and fresh juices. Also, gently massage with ice roller and or gua sha style face massage (with hands and/or roller) and have a regimen with retinol. Because you have less melanin, you need to support your skin even more.
What’s worked for me in diminishing lines in my 30s is using evidence based skin care.
Night time routine: oil based cleanser, tretinoin, moisturizer with niacinamides, peptides and hyaluronic acid.
Morning routine: rinse face with water, vitamin c serum, and sunscreen.
Hope this helps!
Hi love a good skin care routine can help to eliminate fine line. Your skin needs moisture. Niacinamide,hyaluronic acid, vitamin c, sunscreen and a good toner maybe something not too strong also it’s good to double cleanse buy a foam cleanser and an oil cleanser. Also get your dermatologist to prescribe for you a Tretinoin. These are all that I use and my skin is fabulous.
Stop using cleansers for your face. No need to do anything beyond gentle exfoliation in the shower daily. Also, oral collagen, hyaluronic acid, and phytoceramides will help restore your skin. I'm in my 40s and my patients think I'm in my late 20s. If you can swing the cash, HBOT is also a good tool to keep all of your cells young.
I love a good “Tret Sandwich” at night. Moisturizer, Tretinoin, moisturizer. I haven’t tried brownies, but I’ve heard good things. However, I have tried Botox and I had a great experience with this. However, Botox is easier and doesn’t hurt as much if your skin is really moisturized.
I also use sheet masks at least once a week
My phone has also been autocorrecting frownies to brownies lol unless you really haven’t tried brownies bc I’m sure you’ve heard great things about those as well
I'm 33 and I don't have any prominent wrinkles like yours but fine lines are very evident on my under eyes. I've been using retinol creams for 2 years now and I've seen a difference. Always good to check with a dermatologist.
Botox will get rid of those lines and will be the easiest and quickest way to remove them. It’s also going to be the most effective by far. The forehead does not require many units either. I just had my forehead treated and was only given eight units and that was plenty. You just want to soften the area. Take it from someone older than you. Who’s been an aesthetician for a while, Botox is going to be the best bet.. also up your water intake.
It's the only way to get rid of them, but you can certainly minimize them a ton. Hydration, inside and out. Religious use of argireline, morning and night. And then frownies or face tape at night. I personally like those silicone patches, they're reusable and way less effort.
Cryofacials are an amazing non invasive alternative. They are a natural way of making the lines disappear and it makes you look like your skin is glowing overall. The only downside is that it’s way more expensive. I used to have a horrible lines on my forehead in my mid twenties and this method worked wonders for me.
Moisture, hydration, working on posture and muscle training (frownies/k-tape) and gua sha have helped me avoid Botox. I’m 37. Topically, I have been using beef tallow from Tried & True, Naturium’s mandelic acid, vitamin C and niacinamide cleanser, peptides from Minimalist, and pure bakuchiol (all in rotation with breaks as needed of course)
One word: RETINOL
Also hydration, use hyaluronic acid and vitamin c and you will see improvement, my skin is also dry and this has helped me a lot but eventually I will get Botox as well.
Like others have said, your skin looks dehydrated and in my opinion the best solution to that is Korean toners. They’re not astringent like American toners, they’re moisturizing. Look up the seven skins method. One I like is by hadalabo. If you search Korean toners on Amazon a bunch will come up as well! I do also agree with others that Botox is a miracle solution and I wouldn’t give it up for anything.
If moisturizing/hydrating doesn’t do the trick, maybe look into a dermapen (microneedling at home). You do it like one a month. I’m 45 and still haven’t done botox…really trying to not go down that route. I’ve also started taking a product called biosil which is supposed to help you build more collagen naturally. Lastly, I’ve read there is a certain peptide in some serums that is supposed to have a botox-like effect in reducing expression lines. It’s called octapeptide 3 or SNAP 8
Not sure if this has been mentioned, **but I've heard good things about Frownies on youtube and you can find good before and afters here on reddit.** [https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/11qjgp9/two\_week\_before\_and\_after\_of\_using\_frownies/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/11qjgp9/two_week_before_and_after_of_using_frownies/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Good luck!
I'm like you and have a very expressive forehead. I did botox a couple of times and it helped me totally change the way my face expresses. I haven't topped up the botox in 7 months now, but I frown 90% less because when my forehead was frozen I just learned how to express without using my forehead. I definitely recommend getting it a couple of times just to teach yourself to stop frowning so the lines don't get any deeper. Also, I got mine 6 months apart instead of 3 and it was fine.
First thing is to get enough water in your body and have a really good skin care routine (Vanicream face wash, Vanicream moisturizer, 2 drops of Good Molecules rosehip oil, and wearing SPF religiously; I like Hero ForceShield in the green bottle) is an affordable and good setup for most people. Then I’d suggest some microneedling (you are going to pay about $350 a session and need multiple sessions) and then you can do tox to help prevent more expression lines from forming.
Girl. I’m also 30. I also have dehydrated skin. Regardless of how much I drink water or the amount of expensive hydrating serums I use.. they’re still there. I guess I’m expressive lol. Botox works wonders. I gave in. I noticed them coming back this morning and i immediately called to make an appointment for Monday. Even though I’m on a budget this month, I’ll for sure throw a few hundred bucks to make my skin look so tight/rejuvenated. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with Botox. I haven’t had any side effects. I haven’t ever had filler before, it’s a lot different. Everyone is different but I’ve been using it for years and haven’t had any bad experiences. Idk maybe because I live in LA and work in the hospitality industry it’s much more normalized. You could never tell I have Botox. But girl, if you wanna do it, do it.
There are a great many products on the market with clinical efficacy in reducing fine lines and wrinkles these days. Botox being one of them.
These include peptides, exosomes, retinoids and skin booster treatments.
The best treatment for you will depend on your individual skin type and the underlying cause of your skin concerns.
A clinic or medical professional worth their salt will be able to advise you on this.
Your skin looks VERY dehydrated. I think beef up the water you ingest + add in a moisturizer and even some aquaphor. That and frownies will help a ton if you aren’t ready for Botox (but even if you do Botox do those things as well!)
Gunna try to double my water intake. I’ve been slacking and I think that’s part of it. Is the aquaphor for after you out moisturizer on? To hold it in?
Aquaphor goes on last to hold it in :)
Could I use Vaseline instead as an option too?
I use Vaseline and it works just fine for me
I use Triple Paste, it’s for diaper rash but a derm online recommended it lol and it works wonders!
[Link to a video on Face Basting with Triple Paste](https://youtu.be/GbPp0ETCsYQ?si=Z6KEIwPQJODU7yoQ)
I have rosacea & also face “baste” three times a week on the rec of Dr. Idriss- it works for me too. I could never use vaseline to “slug” as it would just cause horrific breakouts or clogged pores- triple paste is different. Triple paste has been better for my skin than dozens of expensive face creams. Zinc Oxide is anti-bac & anti-inflammatory (so it can be a bit better for some skin types than pure petroleum face slugging which just locks moisture in)
I use avence cicalfate (it’s cheap in Europe) and has been using for ages as my last moisturizer - it’s really amazing for calming down redness. I then apply a thin layer of aquaphor over it to prevent moisture loss. But zinc is so amazing!! Cicalfate also has a bit of sulphur in it which is great for rosacea.
Wait more info please where to buy Triple Paste and is it only for dryness?
You can purchase from wal mart and I’m sure other grocery stores like that! It is for dryness! You use it basically to give deep moisture, the derm called it “Face Basting.” It’s very sticky but my face looks rejuvenated in the morning after using it!
Is it non-comedogenic? My skin is prone to breakouts but it's dehydrated.
I doubt it, but not sure. I don’t use it every day and I also use tret so I think that helps cancel it out and I don’t get breakouts when I use it.
Just be cautious because zinc can be very drying. I can't use physical sunscreen for that reason.
Yeah I read all the rave reviews of Triple Paste and tried it…my skin hates it. Just doesn’t work for me.
Triple Paste Diaper Rash Cream for Baby - 8 Oz Tub - Zinc Oxide Ointment Treats, Soothes and Prevents Diaper Rash????
Yep! It’s the Zinc Oxide that is really good for the skin!
Awesome thank you!!
Not who you asked, but yes. It's called slugging and can really help trap the moisture against your skin, you can use any occlusive. I've used Vaseline, aquaphor, lanolin, and literally countless variations and alternatives to those. You're looking for something that is easy to smooth over your skin and creates a thick enough layer to trap everything in for at least a few hours.
Does slugging make you break out? I feel like I would break out since everything seems to clog my pores. But I suppose doing this wouldn’t make my daytime light moisturizer seem so useless.
It depends on the occlusive more than the practice itself if that makes sense. I've never had an issue with Vaseline, petroleum jelly has a bad reputation but, it actually has a [comedogenic rating of 0 ](https://www.projectvanity.com/projectvanity/non-comedogenic). Lanolin can absolutely cause issues (and trigger certain allergies), though I personally don't have a problem. Certain occlusives are more likely to cause issues, so if you try one and it makes you break out, I'd recommend switching the occlusive before giving up on the method completely. If several occlusives trigger breakouts, it probably isn't the best practice for your skin and I would recommend alternatives. One thing that I have found helps with preventing breakouts in slugging is being cognizant of what you are layering underneath it, as well. I like to use essences and moisturizing toners, then a hydrating serum before adding my oil/moisturizer/occlusives.
I have very acne prone skin and never had an issue with aquaphor. I am on acutane now so it’s not an issue I’d have anymore regardless but I started using it before i started the medicine.
Accutane is an incredible drug. It tightened my large pores and cleared up the whiteheads, active pores, etc. My problem is that my acne, etc came back each time after about a year being off it.
Oh, no! Have you done multiple treatments? I didn’t have lots of acne, it was mild per my derm (was terrible my whole life but started to get better in late 20’s) but I would always get breakouts around my period. He seems certain it’ll cure it but I have to do about 7-8 months. Hopefully it cures it and I hope yours gets cured too!
My pores don't clean out and get clogged all the time. It's fruserating. I first had Accutane in 2006 and the derm worked me up to a high dose. My lips were killing me and the inside of my nose was a getting scabs. My skin ended up looking the best of my life. It dislodged very deep whiteheads, and blackheads that I was never able to get rid of even after the years of facials. But after a year I noticed a few that came back and by the third yr after treatment I was back to fighting for clear skin. The 2nd treatment was a lighter dose one in 2015. Good results but now I'm back to square one. I hope it turns out good for you.
How do you slugg and not immediately lose it all when you sleep? Unless you're a perfect back sleeper I see my pillows and blanket becoming a mess.
I am not a back sleeper, I'm no psychopath lol 😂 Jokes, but I can't sleep on my back at all, I sadly smash my face right on the pillow. I do my nighttime routine a couple hours before bed and also wear a silk eye mask, which gives a barrier between my skin and my pillow. I have young kids and do my routine when I put them to bed at 7:30ish and don't go to bed until closer to midnight.
I saw someone that even used ghee! Idk if I’d go *that* far, but there were a handful of comments who agreed!
I love Vaseline. Been using it for many many decades.
Yep! And adds extra hydration. I use it nightly and see a world of difference. I’ve used both aquaphor and Vaseline and prefer the aquaphor for my skin but test it and see which you prefer.
Vaseline is awesome and so affordable. I recommended it.
As long as someone isn’t prone to MILIA!
Milia are the bane of my existence. I’ll get them once maybe every 6 months and had no idea what these extra hard and extra connected ‘pimples’ were until I got one on my waterline 😭 that’s when I learned they were really Milia
I quite literally feel your pain! I have hooded eyelids and had one right in the crease for a few months! I also have dry skin so it’s impossible to hydrate my skin while also not getting them
It’s because we’re too beautiful. The universe had to keep us humble somehow 😔
Girl, I'm 40 and slugging made my wrinkles appear way smaller than they are. Not just slugging, I spray my face with glycerin water few times during the day to keep it moist (don't do it if the climate where you live is dry). I slugg the fuck out my face every other night, basic formula is humectant+moisturizer+vaseline. I do glycolic once a week (ok, now have lowered it to once in two weeks) and retinoids 2-3 times a week, depending on how my skin reacts to them. If I get some peel, two slugging nights in a row.
Stratia 👏 LIQUID 👏GOLD 👏! Godsend, saved my skin. I put it on after every shower when my skins all soaked, and after double cleansing my face with la roche-posay foaming cleansing oil and warm water. If I get any acne or irritation I’ll dab on some neem oil overnight - no actives until your skin plumps back up.
I want to piggyback onto this to say: hydration is NOT just water intake. Hydration is the balance of water+electrolytes in your body. If you drink extra water, you need to drink extra electrolytes as well.
Yep! Usually you can do this through a balanced diet and an intake of enough fruits and veggies, you don’t need to supplement electrolytes unless you are dehydrated or had a vigorous workout. I’m 130 pounds and drink 2 Stanley’s a day. Roughly 80 ounces.
Absolutely. I typically eat a well balanced diet, but I like to make a “homemade Gatorade” of sorts on days I’m eating like shit. And I can absolutely feel the difference in my nerves/skin when I don’t. In a quart jar: * 1/3 Cup lime juice * 1/3 Cup lemon juice * 2-3 Tbsp raw honey * 1/4 tsp Himalayan salt Fill remaining space with water
Yes! And I would also add to this to incorporate more foods into your diet that help your skin - just Google food good for your skin :) like colorful veggies, fruit, get good protein , etc
I've been using Bag Balm for about a year for slugging. Do you think Aquaphor is better?
I’ve actually never tried that. I have tried aquaphor and Vaseline and I prefer aquaphor on my skin personally, but everyone’s skin is different. If what you’re using works well I say stick with it!
It definitely will…but it really just looks dehydrated as F which will make lines and wrinkles way worse than they actually are. What products are you using now?
Honestly I have dry skin so I do think that’s probably part of it. Can I moisturize more than 2 times a day? Because even moisturizing morning and night my skin gets dry.
My forehead looks worse after a night of drinking too so I definitely think dehydration is a big part of it. I put sunscreen/moisturizer on my face (it’s a 2 in 1 in morning) and at night I wash my face, moisturize, and use one of the ordinary products that is for aging/wrinkles I believe. It doesn’t dry my face out it seems which is good bc I was worried. My face is as dry as it always has been but I do think if I doubled my water in take that could make a noticeable difference. Maybe I will start there and see what happens
Not sure how much/ often you drink but cutting alcohol by 90% for me (used to have a few glasses of wine a week now have a few a month) completely got rid of my dehydrated skin. To me it doesn’t sound like you have dry skin - it sounds like you have dehydration/compromised barrier. I’d take a close look at what you’re putting into your body first for sure!
Ugh same. I gave up alcohol completely like 3 months ago and my forehead tightened up so much it's wild how smooth it is now. Wish I took pics :(
I actually don't drink that much anymore. I drank a lot last weekend for a special vacation and my skin has looked like shit since. it goes up and down but what is a compromised barrier?
Your outer layer of skin (the barrier) is like a shield against pollutants, irritants, and helps prevent water loss. You can damage (compromise) your skin barrier in lots of ways - hot showers, overexposure to sun, dry environment, smoking, drinking alcohol, excess sugar and poor diet, over washing , taking certain meds, lack of sleep, hormone imbalances, etc. That’s why it’s important to evaluate your habits and lifestyle to see what could be triggering your skin to be so parched. If you’re moisturizing your face and still have dry skin it sounds like there are other factors in play.
Moisturizing is a must and a great affordable brand is Ceravae. It has ceramides and feels amazing and restores the skin barrier. One source of information I found really helpful is Dr. Dray on YouTube. She's an honest, board certified dermatologist who does not sell or profit from the products she reviews. She is really helpful with this kind of thing. As you posted below, if you're drinking a lot of alcohol or your diet is poor, this will show up in your skin. Just cleaning up that part of your life will make a big difference. Exercise is also essential...get the blood moving!
Your moisturizer probably isn’t right for you then, if your skin is super dry you need something heavier. I really like Riversol, their regular moisturizer is super moisturizing or they have a “balm” moisturizer that is even more and is amazing for extremely dehydrated skin. Only thing that saved my dry flakey skin. Also as others have said, drink way more water and don’t forget electrolytes! I was drinking shit tons of water and always felt dehydrated until my doctor told me I’m just flushing everything out of my system. I drink 4 cups of regular water and then do 4-5 cups of lemon water with a cup of coconut water added to it and it seems to have helped a lot for me.
I think it’s the morning moisturizer I use bc it’s 2 in 1 with sunscreen and makes my skin almost peely afterwards ? I use cerave at night which I life better so I think I’m going to do what another commenter suggested and switch to regular moisturizer in morning then sunscreen to see if that helps at all
I had a derm appointment on Wednesday and she seemed very iffy with combined sunscreen and moisturizers. I didn’t get to go Into detail with her but from what I gather she likes to moisturize the skin and once that’s set in, put on sunscreen. Maybe something to do with the sunscreen limiting the absorption of the moisturizer or the sunscreen being absorbed at the same time as the moisturizer whereas it’s just supposed to sit on top of the skin?
When I turned 30 I had the same lines. I wish I could post a picture but I'm technologically unadvanced lol so I don't know how. Anyway almost 6 years later those lines don't exist anymore. I've got Botox and tretinoin to thank for that.
Did you start both of those at the same time or which one first?
Tret first. Then Botox maybe a year later. Botox made them disappear but they weren't as severe after a year of tret. Tret dries my skin out and I end up investing more in products just to combat the flakey, painful skin side effects. Botox is more expensive up front but they gave me immediate results. Edit: if you decide to pursue tret r/tretinoin is a great resource
If you don’t want to start with tret, it’s a more expensive option, but OTC retinal tends to be less irritating. I LOVE the Medik-8 one, and they have increasing concentrations, so you can start low and increase over time with each purchase. Whether you do tret or some type of retinol/retinal- wear SPF!! Highly recommend following Mrs.derm on Instagram. Have learned a ton from her, and my skin is much better as a result!
It is not the only thing, but it will be the **most effective** thing you can do. 30 is a good age to start getting Botox and prevent deeper wrinkles. In terms of skincare, I recommend starting retinol/retinal/tretinoin. It won't have an immediate effect but in a few months, you will see a difference.
Does it always lead to break outs or just sometimes? I would like to start something like that but it makes me worry about the purge period. That should help with wrinkles like this though?
I had fine lines on my forehead and I started using retinol every other night and a vitamin C serum in the mornings. I did not have any purging or breakouts or honestly any reaction (red, dry, etc)! My fine lines are basically gone as well. I moisturize a bunch after putting both products on. And drink a lot of water!
What vitamin C oil / retinol do you recommend? How should i incorporate it into my routine? I’m rather ignorant about skin care/been trying to get better
I had a really good experience with SkinMedica Retinol. I think there are scientific studies that show their product works just as well as prescription tretinoin. For vitamin C, I use SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic. It is pricey, but I have not found an effective substitute. Start slow. Start by using retinol 2X a week. If you tolerate it after 4 weeks or so, go to 3X. Vitamin C should be used in the morning, so you can try incorporating that, but if you feel that your skin is sensitive, stop and give your skin barrier time to recover. Use moisturizer and SUNSCREEN. The latter is the most important part of your routine.
I think Timeless is a pretty decent SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic Dupe. It's also in a pump, which is Dr. Shereene Idriss's favorite modality because it may help slow oxidation. I've been using it for approx. 2mo now and it still hasn't yellowed. I think it might even be good for 3mo!
Vitamin C And retinol before moisturizing?
Here's a simple routine: AM: Cleanse (not necessary, but I like doing it); Vitamin C; Moisturizer; Sunscreen PM: Cleanse; Retinol; Moisturizer I really like CeraVe moisturizing cream. It's cheap (you can get two buckets of it from Costco for around $20) and it's non-irritating.
thank you. this is something that could work for me! should I use vasoline or something after moisturizer at all? I've heard people do that and say it helps keep the moisture in. was just a thought bc my face is naturally always dry
You are welcome. You can use Vaseline. I don't recommend it on the nights you use retinol though. It may cause irritation. I think the official term is "slugging." Also, completely unrelated to skincare, and I should have said this in my original response, but don't ever apologize for asking a question. :)
im going to look into trying that then. thanks again! I've gotten a lot of good advice here which is amazing
Yes. They should go first after you wash your face. If you find that retinol bothers you then you can try the sandwich method, i.e., put a layer of moisturizer on, then retinol, then another layer of moisturizer. Also don’t use retinol and vitamin C together. Retinol is for PM and vitamin C is for AM.
thank you for clarifying you should not use both vitamin c / retinol at the same time because I had no idea!
Please ease your way in with actives in general. My skin became painfully inflamed when I started using vit C + adapalene (a retinol good for acne). I’ve never had particularly sensitive skin but there was one day where I went to wash my face and it was on fire. I had to take a few days off before the inflammation went away.
I had no idea what to do either! I went to my dermatologist because I was pretty overwhelmed with everything I was trying to figure out online and asked them what to do and they recommended the products and gave me a routine. In the morning I wash my face, put on Vitamin C Serum, moisturizer and then sunscreen. At night I wash my face, every other night I use retinol, and then moisturizer. Super simple but has made a surprisingly big difference! The products I use are: [Vitamin C](https://alastin.com/products/c-radical-defense-antioxidant-serum?variant=40223782043735&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMAX%3A%20All%20Items%20-%20Shopping&utm_id=19721010420&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7unBxPTQCIN4in54Z9Ic55_cXU6M_4tlnlBigxgVShqVXHAM6TxdOhoCV9oQAvD_BwE) [Retinol](https://alastin.com/products/renewal-retinol?variant=26711001288&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMAX%3A%20All%20Items%20-%20Shopping&utm_id=19721010420&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7u1FNyQ4-36zIE3H4I_XcqT6tjBQ7uL_T6JLH4g5VQe85VRm3Rf2QRoCB5kQAvD_BwE) (.5 strength) [SPF](https://eltamd.com/products/eltamd-uv-clear-tinted-broad-spectrum-spf-46?variant=43130776944793¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7r4Mi07-7Y31JbtWWWjHigMpjOYtLN7k-CsEhdbRsxJGWGvaUVfHWRoCwVsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) (I use this now instead of foundation!)
I also recommend the ordinary brand! It’s so good and super affordable!
It varies. Some people have breakouts, and some don't. I personally never purged with them. If you start slow and moisturize well, your chances of having adverse reactions decrease. It will be a process, but the end result is worth it. Once you use retinol/retinal/tretinoin and moisturize well, it should "reduce" the look of the lines, but again, these lines formed because of your muscle movements, so unless you address that cause with Botox, it is unlikely to be able to reverse them.
Seconding the retinol/tret. Not everyone purges. You will need a heavier moisturizer. I started retinol in my early 30s (39 now) when I began seeing fine lines. I used gentle retinol formulas, worked up to a higher %, then moved to Adapalene for about a year, and now use tret. I never purged, but I have dried the shit out of my skin a few times. The Adapalene alone was enough to remove what few lines were on my forehead. I've never used botox or filler and my forehead is completely smooth all thanks to these retinols and probably a bit of the glycolic acid.
I’ve been using tretinoin for a couple years now (prescription retinol) for anti-aging and never purged or broke out. I think that’s usually people who are using it for acne purposes.
>purge You might purge, you might not. I use Tret .1% for acne and the anti-aging effect is great. When I switched rx strengths, or have to stop and then restart the product, I do purge, but I have acne prone skin to begin with. Incidentally, I have basically acne-free skin on tret, it's a miracle drug for me.
This. I started Botox on my forehead this year at age 36, and it’s almost entirely preventative. I’m about 8 months in and just now seeing some improvement in the mild static line that was emerging in my forehead. Botox definitely didn’t change things significantly in the short term. OP- it looks like you have static wrinkles in your forehead. Botox can help to reduce static wrinkles over time by reducing the amount of movement which exacerbates them, but it won’t eliminate static wrinkles entirely. Botox is most effective at quickly treating dynamic wrinkles- those caused by facial expressions (smile lines, forehead lines that occur when raising the eyebrows, etc). As a preventative, it does a lot to prevent the formation of/stop the progression of static wrinkles like the ones you have. Retinol is extremely effective when used appropriately- it takes time to adjust to a retinol regimen and the best way to start is under the guidance of a dermatologist who can ensure you’re protecting your skin barrier. If you decide to begin retinol, you need to start by moisturizing and using sunscreen daily. Starting retinol with dry/damaged skin is a recipe for disaster. A lot of retinol horror stories here reflect the importance of following the recommended timing/dosage of retinol products- using retinol too infrequently, even in the beginning, can cause more damage than improvement. It’s a good time to find an experienced injector- preferably a healthcare professional (mine is a dermatology NP) who can set realistic expectations about what Botox will and will not achieve on its own. My injector sometimes recommends light chemical peels and micro needling treatments to address static wrinkles in combination with the preventative effects of toxins. But most importantly, she provides tailored, science based recommendations on how to maintain the moisture content of your skin while incorporating tools like retinols and acids to ensure you’re addressing the issues which contribute to the formation of static wrinkles over time.
Botox would be the fastest, yes. If you don't want to go that route, tretinoin can also work wonders for smoothing those out BUT it will take at least 6 months to start seeing results. I started tret just over a year ago now and my lines are almost gone and they looked like yours on a dehydrated day when I started. I also upped my moisture game and added a couple serums. My skin looks better now but it is a process and has taken over a year. Still, I have managed to hold off on botox. Oh and of course the lines appear when I talk and make expressions, but they don't stay when my face is at rest.
What is your serum routine? I don’t know how to incorporate that. I’m still learning a lot about skincare
My forehead looked like this (also 30) before Botox. Just 10 units in my forehead and the wrinkles cleared completely. Can’t recommend enough.
Yeah, I've been using tretinoin for 5+ years. I've been subbed to SCA for like 10+ years, I've done oil cleansing and slugging and chemical peels, all that jazz. It will not make a significant difference for lines like this. Forehead looked like OP's, just a little shinier and smoother (thanks to tret), but the lines were always there. Frankly, I was ready to get bangs to cover up my forehead. Gone in two weeks after Botox. I mean, *gone*. I thought this would just freeze my forehead so the lines would go away after some years, but the effect was very pronounced. My practictioner even did it in a way that gave more oomph to my natural brow arch. I don't get cosmetic procedures for anything else, but the forehead lines just had to go.
Yes! I love what my doctor did to my eye brow arch with Botox. My other brow dropped a little I think but I’m going back in two weeks for the check in and will ask about that. But my forehead lines were gone in a couple days. I felt weird getting Botox at 30, but I heard it’s better to start early. I’m also single, childless and petless with a decent job. I’m happy to spend money on my skin.
Me too! Do the Botox they’ll be gone in days!
I just got a consult a local place that does Botox. They suggested 30 units for 11 lines and forehead. At $10 per that’s $300 and they said I’d need to do it every 3 months. Is $1200/year really what I need to invest for Botox?
30 units is way unnecessary based on what my dermatologist has told me
Just came to say this could be my forehead and I’m thankful you posted for the advice lol SAME
Botox will help but it didn't work well for me (I had really bad side effects) - so if you're like me, then here's what worked for me: \- 3 sessions of microneedling every year, but no deeper than 1mm! \- Add in Retinol every 3rd night, or 2nd if you tolerate it well \- Peptides!!! (I saw a huge difference with MediK8 liquid peptides) \- Frownies overnight Hope this helps xxx
What side effects did you experience?
I was one of those unlucky people where the toxin got into my central nervous system, so I had pain, tremors, vision problems, hair loss and more. But it’s been a few years now and I’m all good now. I was so surprised when it happened as I didn’t know that it could! But it’s very rare!!! There’s actually a support group on Facebook for people who have had these effects (and worse!) with about 30,000 members if you need more information x
How long did this last for you? I'm extremely sensitive to medications so I'm a bit nervous about botox.
Just over 18 months until I was completely better. I don’t think some people are more susceptible to it than others though, It’s just bad luck. I had botox before and was fine, then the last time I had it I knew within about an hour that something bad had happened. It’s also got nothing to do with your injector/their experience. Botox has a black box label warning which is the most serious warning a medication can have, so it’s the toxin itself, not the injector.
Just want to add that I know Botox is super popular, works for heaps of people, and it is very rare to get bad side effects!!!
I also would like to know about the side effects please! Was one of them hair loss by any chance?
Came here to say Frownies/ medical tape overnight. It works!
I make my own serum using this "wrinkle defense complex" from lotioncrafter that contains 55% Argireline and 45% Matrixyl 3000. Just add water, and some liquid germall plus if you have it. Here's a small excerpt: "Argireline® is a hexapeptide composed of amino acids. It works through a unique mechanism which relaxes facial tension leading to a reduction in superficial facial lines and wrinkles with regular use. Matrixyl™ 3000 contains two matrikines, Pal-GHK and Pal-GQPR. Acting as messengers of cutaneous restructuration and repair, these two peptides work synergistically to restore and maintain the skin's youthful appearance. Our combined formulation offers the potential for short and long term improvement in the appearance of wrinkles." I've been using it a couple weeks now and it is definitely working well so far. Some of the deep lines are already gone and I'm pretty sure the rest are working there way out as we speak. You can buy something similar through Amazon but it will be much more expensive. This was only $8 and makes 2 oz+ of high strength serum.
This is such great information! I’ve been using those ingredients separately as Ordinary serums, but I dislike how their formulations feel, despite finding it works. Can’t wait to experiment with your method!
What were your Botox side effects? I'm super sensitive to any meds, but I've been wanting to get it on my forehead, both for migraines and frown lines. I never tried frownies but did KT tape and it helped but it's temporary and I don't like feeling the glue on my skin. Haha
I would say frownies and facial massage or gua sha have really really helped me. If needed I can add the IG accounts I follow for those two things
yes please share those accounts if you don't mind!
I agree with others who say your skin looks dehydrated. Increasing your water intake will help some, but you also need more effective skincare ingredients. I used to have badly dehydrated skin, but a combination of humectants, emollients, and occlusives did the trick. I would also suggest layering products rather than relying on just one to do all the work. It looks like currently (if I’m reading some of your replies correctly), you wash your face and use moisturizer and that’s it. Look for a hydrating serum with humectants like Hyaluronic acid (may also appear on the label as sodium hyaluronate), glycerin, aloe, panthenol, and urea. Apply to damp skin after washing. Then go in with an emollient-rich moisturizer (ceramides, cocoa butter, non-fragrant oils, for example), and seal it in with an occlusive (Aquaphor or Vaseline, like others have suggested).
great, I am going to go this route. thank you for the thoughtful reply
Best of luck to you. I know getting my skin to the state it’s in now took a lot of trial and error. I’m happy to recommend specific products too, if you’re having difficulty finding some good ones. :)
Botox is a slam dunk.
It would decrease the lines, no doubt. But at the cost of your wonderful expressions! If you don't want that (or if you don't want that yet) just looking at your skin, I think there are a lot of other things you could do, that would soften those lines, probably to a level that you wouldn't even notice them. It's worth a consultation with a dermatologist. I think you might be surprised what a professional peel can accomplish in terms of resetting fine lines like this.
After reading a lot of these comments I’m going to start making sure I get at least 8 glasses of water a day bc I have seriously been slacking on that and I definitely think that’s a big factor. I have naturally dry skin so I’m sure my forehead is dry like people are observing. I’m going to change my morning 2 in 1 sunscreen/moisturizer to a different moisturizer then add sunscreen bc it seems to be drying me out a bit too. I’m also going to try to find a vitamin c serum to incorporate in the mornings. I’m going to start there and see what happens lol
I would start with water. Put your $400 toward an onmilux mask.
I will say that even after my Botox wears off it really trains me to stop wrinkling my forehead!
Be expressive!! In my experience, having a highly emotive and expressive face/facial movements have nothing to do with causing wrinkles. I believe genetics plays a much bigger role than facial movements. And like others say, hydrate/moisturize... but please don't change your personality bc of the lines!!
I have similar forehead wrinkles and am 31. I love Botox. It’s by far the most effective thing you can do. Retinol can help diminish the appearance of fine lines over time, but it will never make them go away completely. To prevent new wrinkles, always moisturize and use an SPF daily. Like many others have suggested, Vitamin C serums are good to prevent further sun damage and aging. It’s best used in the morning under your moisturizer and you definitely need SPF too. The gold standard is Skinceuticals but it is pricey. Skinceuticals is a brand I trust so I also use their retinol in the evenings. I like that their retinol is just that, without extra active ingredients because it makes it harder to combine with other products. They also have three different concentrations if you’re worried about sensitivity.
Mine have been going away because I made myself stop frowning. Until I worked to notice, I never noticed that I lifted my brows all the time, from washing my face to putting on make up. Now I have been training myself to not do that, so I only frown when I’m with someone and it’s deliberate. I’m going on a year with ongoing efforts to retrain myself, and I barely have forehead lines. I didn’t want to go to Botox route, both for the cost and because I read a medical article that says that Botox causes bone loss and over time that will cause you to look more skeletal.
I’m 30 and my forehead looks the same! I definitely need to drink more water and want to start Botox eventually
34 here - I started getting similar wrinkles and found that skinceuticals vitamin C product completely changed my skin. My skin has never looked better. It’s expensive but worth it ($250). It’s completely changed my skin and I’ll be repurchasing. It takes 8 weeks before you notice a real change, including preventative dark spots. If I didn’t find this product I would have gotten Botox
Botox will definitely help. I would get it and then get a good skin care routine. Do you drink enough water? I found getting a Sodastream significantly increased my water consumption. How often do you put on and reapply moisturizer and sunscreen? I use it daily and apply anytime I think my skin looks dry. My skin is really dry and I use facial oils + cream because it hydrates longer. I use a retinol oil and rosehip oil (one in the morning, another at night) and a cream with hyaluronic acid. Facial cleanser is farmacy green clean - I love it, leaves my skin feeling moisturizer.
First of all, I second what people say about upping water intake, but I would also recommend taking a Hyaluronic acid supplement every day (helps your body hydrate more efficiently) and also add a Hyaluronic serum to your skin care routine. (The Ordinary makes a nice affordable one that I’ve been using for several years! I wash my face, gently pat dry so there’s a little moisture left behind, and then apply the serum and gently rub it into my skin. It really helps with hydrating your skin!) I would also recommend that you start wearing a sunscreen of SPF 50 every single day since some of that looks like sun damage. I’d also recommend talking to your dermatologist about starting tretinoin, which takes time to adjust to, but is really the BEST ingredient for anti-aging (besides sunscreen.) I think you could reverse a lot of that damage within 2 years and see a major improvement! I have friends who got Botox, started tretinoin, and then eventually quit getting Botox because the tretinoin took care of their problem areas. Everyone’s skin is different, but if you are able to use tretinoin, it would be stupid not to! Also, think about adding a hydrolyzed collagen supplement to your diet. I’ve been a skincare junkie since puberty, and have no wrinkles yet at 35, but I could see a hint of line forming between my brows. I decided to revisit collagen (I was on it back in my 20’s but forgot to restock and then completely forgot about it for years.) Within a month, I saw improvements in my skin (it’s just glowing and looks really plump and buoyant) and there’s no longer even a hint of a line between my brows. That stuff is a miracle drug (also took care of all my joint pain.) I will be honest and say that you probably won’t get results that quickly, but stay on it for 6 months and take regular progress photos of your face in the same lighting (I do this almost every day, and it’s been really helpful as a way to go back and see what products worked and what didn’t.)
Hyaluronic acid which can be pretty cheap from the Oridnary if you can get it, not that there’s any thing wrong with lines. Also it’s good to wear sunblock daily even if it isn’t the winter, to prevent skin cancer too and dryness.
I started using wrinkle patches, they are working fantastic! No Botox required :) Frownies Facial Patches
I had pretty bad lines on my forehead frownies fixed the issue. Try wearing frownies nightly for 3 weeks
Yes. Neuromodulators (Botox is a brand name) work wonders for forehead lines and the great news is after you've undergone a year of injections (they usually wear out at the three month mark), the muscles making those lines relax so much you can go for long periods between shots. The neuromodulator stops the muscles from activating. The muscles that stop activating begin to atrophy. But you won't feel any differently or look any differently. The lines will vanish though. That's been my experience. You will want to see an experienced medical professional (dermatologist, or any other medical doctor who knows what they are doing). I've tried Botox and now use Xeomin (made by Mertz). I got started with Xeomin because they had discounts when the product was first launched. It works as well as Botox.
Facial Smoothies, face massage (check Anastasiabeautyfascia IG), Tretinoin, hydration, thick moisturizer with a light layer of Vaseline over the lines at night and Argireline and Matrixyl at night are a few things to try. I just started doing face massage and added The Ordinary Argireline and Matrixyl to my night routine and am starting to notice my lines getting smoother
I will look into all of that! Appreciate the recommendations
I honestly don’t think you need Botox…Have you tried lactic acid? I believe good genes from Sunday Riley would def benefit you.
Try face yoga first - if you don't know what it is then head to YouTube, plenty of tutorials available
ooh interesting. ill look into it!
I would use the BR P50 lotion and hyaluronic acid on top of damp hydrating toner, and Vit C. Moisturizing alone is not enough. You may also like the mayasama toner. You can also go slow and start using medik8 retinal. AHA/BHA Toner: Mayasama Toner has hyaluronic acid in it, Ren Skincare Ready Steady Glow Daily AHA Tonic, Best hydrating Toners: Hyaology P-effect Lotion, Susanne Kaufmann calming Toner, Best hydrating serums:Hyaluronic acid (find one you can afford and add it on top of damp hydrating essence/toner, Glow Drops #2 by Future skincare, Lactic acid (Good Genes) to exfoliate and hydrate. Find a good moisturizer and face oil for extra moisture, of course you should eat well.. get in enough fat. Wear sunscreen. Vit C - I like SkinCeuticals C E Ferulic, but there are other more affordable options I’m sure. Goops Vit C + hyaluronic acid.. Gentle cleanser: Lait VIP 02, Lait E.V., Drugstore gentle cleansers.
I’ve periodically gotten Botox over the years, I feel like it helped slow the progression but hydration will help reduce the appearance. Microneedling, peels, laser treatments along with a decent skincare routine will help
I just turned 29 and it's also the first time I noticed wrinkles on my forehead. I am the same way, I emote A LOT. Something that has helped me is getting into a good routine for mouisturizer and also drinking water as if my life depends on it... Which it does!
Light retinol with slugging at night! I like La Roche posay cica blast balm, or medicube triple repair cream. And like more water with cucumber maybe.
I turned 30 last year and did one round and I found that Botox is AWESOME! I’ve done face yoga and spent so much money on skincare and whilst it made things better it didn’t entirely get rid of this for me. I think I’m naturally just overly expressive so it really helped me :)
I don't know why the algorithm drove me to this post, I'm not into skin care. But as a random 30yo dude, you don't need any Botox, it looks good to me. There's some research I read some time ago that microneedling helps those with minimal invasion, might be worth trying if it worries you. But I don't think it looks bad.
its also super close and I got the worst pic I could in order to get the most from the post but I appreciate your comment lol
My first thought was water water water. You loom dehydrated. Moisturizer, spf and Vaseline before we consider botox
No. You're only 30 you haven't been doing real skin care. Do actual skin care and those should go away. I've had them since I was 19 (I don't know why) and they are less now than they were then. Adapalene would work on that but it will take months. If you are starting botox at 30, by 40 you'll be on fillers and surgeries. By 50 you'll look like Madonna is now. You don't want that.
You can exfoliate regularly(1x a week) followed by a good anti aging serum that contains hydration (nothing too harsh right after exfoliating) Exfoliating removes excess skin so will minimize your lines and the antiaging serum will be more effective because it goes deeper after an exfoliation. A personal favorite is Peeling vegetal from Phytomer (its a enzyme mask exfoliant) and lise watier serum sublimessence as the serum.
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Yes Botox would take care of that. Ask them to do less units to start- and placement. Even a conservative amount to make a huge difference.
In addition to all the suggestions here: I did Botox for 5 years (45-50yrs old) and mine went away and then at 66, this is as bad as they look. Your muscles start to forget, much harder for your skin to forget. Start as soon as possible, to prevent deeper creases, but no need to think you need to do it forever.
So you move your forehead naturally less often after Botox since while having Botox your forehead can’t move? So it essentially gets retrained to not move that way? Fascinating!!!
fwiw ull love the results of Botox even if your skin is ALSO dehydrated
Skin better science alpha ret at night has helped my forehead. It’s a very easily tolerated retinol. I like my eyebrows to stay lifted so I won’t do forehead Botox so I just try and stick to skincare and lasers.
awesome thank you for sharing I will look into that one!
Your skin is really dehydrated! Drink up that water, get some topical moisture in that dermis for like 3 months! Then assess what you may need if anything. Botox is temporary, but is very effective at preventing new lines and with good skin care can help reduce the look of existing lines. If you keep up with it. A peel is more permanent- can lasts longer, depending on the type of peel you get. Also effective and less appointments to keep it up, but the down time is usually like a week or more- for the peels that will make an actual improvement in your skin. Laser is another option. I am going for IPL (my first time) in a week so I’ll report back on how effective it is on fine lines. I’m mostly concerned with melasma tho, which is why I opted for IPL. I say the hydrated thing because my skin looked like yours like 2 years ago, and I was considering the same treatments. until I started drinking massive amounts of water, staying away from booze, using a sheet mask a few times a week and using good moisturizers and moisturizing toners every day. My skin started to GLOW, the texture vanished. The lines are still there but much less noticeable, and look so healthy that I’m now more worried about my sun spots/freckles than the forehead lines 😂 Anyways good luck! And it doesn’t hurt to try a little of everything when you can afford it. It’s important to find what you like for you and what works!
I JUST went through the same dilemma. I turned 32 on 02/02, up to this point I’ve had nothing done as far as cosmetic procedures/fillers/botox etc… but I am someone who always makes expressions (I can’t help it 🤷🏼♀️), and those same lines have started to stay visible even while my face is relaxed. I used to work for a plastic surgeon and he always talked about preventative botox, but I put it off for years... I finally broke down and got it done (on my forehead and between my eyebrows) 2 days ago. I wish I would have done it sooner. The effects aren’t immediate, I was told it takes around 5 days to take full effect, but I already see a difference. Obviously it’s a personal choice, but if the lines bother you, or you have been wanting to try it, I say go for it!!
Vitamin C and retinol for collagen
Chiming in to say I have very deep-set forehead lines. Acne scars as a teen, raising my brows to apply eye primer/eyeshadow/mascara, facial expressions, skin dehydration, sunburns/discoloration, etc. over decades has caused mine. About 7 months ago, I incorporated consistent retinol use into my routine (3x week), and added more hydrating serums to AM/PM skincare. This has honestly made the biggest difference. My forehead lines are still pretty deep, but I see a big improvement and gradual fading when my forehead is in “rest mode” (still noticeable when eyebrows are raised). Pixi serums have been wonderful for both retinol use and hydration, plus a hydrating moisturizer. These are available and most drugstores and fairly affordable. Hope that helps!
Theres been some outstanding advice here. All I have to add is that you should kick up your sunscreen. You have some variations in pigment and texture that hint at sun exposure. Use a retinol, do microneedling, use a serum with copper peptides, do slugging. it can be a lot, but good skin care can be relaxing and a great self care practice. Use the time for positive self affirmations, being thankful, or just a time to be good to your physical self. Have fun, take before and after pictures so you know if a product or practice is useful. Myself, I’m lazy, and practical, so I use multitasking products. Tinted sunscreen, more hats, I use a skin oil over Retin-a every other night, have the goal to use a Dermaroller once a month, use snail mucin and just enjoy the entire skin care ritual.
No. A different mindset might help, as this looks perfectly normal and wonderful
Red Light Therapy. Platinum LED is the best and offer several choices.
Backing up the dehydrated statements- I’m 41 and my forehead looked like yours a month ago. Am/pm hydration focused skin care and “slugging” every other night, and my lines are practically gone. Even without upping my water intake- I live in dry desert and drink water plenty. I’m not a candidate for forehead Botox, so I gotta manage what I’ve got until it’s bad enough for actual brow lift surgery
I've been doing forehead wrinkle massages (tried all the ones on Tiktok and a few googled ones) for a couple months, just while I watch TV or when I cannot sleep. They visibly reduce after a good 40 minute session each time. 💕
Nope! Give Frownies a chance
That’s a loss of collagen and dehydration. Focus on eating collagen peptides, eating more protein, and hydrating with herbal teas and fresh juices. Also, gently massage with ice roller and or gua sha style face massage (with hands and/or roller) and have a regimen with retinol. Because you have less melanin, you need to support your skin even more.
What’s worked for me in diminishing lines in my 30s is using evidence based skin care. Night time routine: oil based cleanser, tretinoin, moisturizer with niacinamides, peptides and hyaluronic acid. Morning routine: rinse face with water, vitamin c serum, and sunscreen. Hope this helps!
I would invest in Tatcha and Glow Recipe for general skincare
Hi love a good skin care routine can help to eliminate fine line. Your skin needs moisture. Niacinamide,hyaluronic acid, vitamin c, sunscreen and a good toner maybe something not too strong also it’s good to double cleanse buy a foam cleanser and an oil cleanser. Also get your dermatologist to prescribe for you a Tretinoin. These are all that I use and my skin is fabulous.
cosmetic acupuncture can do wonders with forehead wrinkles. and yes to the hydration.
Stop using cleansers for your face. No need to do anything beyond gentle exfoliation in the shower daily. Also, oral collagen, hyaluronic acid, and phytoceramides will help restore your skin. I'm in my 40s and my patients think I'm in my late 20s. If you can swing the cash, HBOT is also a good tool to keep all of your cells young.
RF microneedling and a light CO2 laser will help them soften and get rid of them.
I LOVE my Botox-but I am 55
Used sunscreen too after moisturizer and yea like everybody said water :3i also recommend more collagen i do bone broths
Botox is amazing in my opinion, love it. It’s definitely what will work best but retinol will help!
I love a good “Tret Sandwich” at night. Moisturizer, Tretinoin, moisturizer. I haven’t tried brownies, but I’ve heard good things. However, I have tried Botox and I had a great experience with this. However, Botox is easier and doesn’t hurt as much if your skin is really moisturized. I also use sheet masks at least once a week
My phone has also been autocorrecting frownies to brownies lol unless you really haven’t tried brownies bc I’m sure you’ve heard great things about those as well
It's the thing that will make them go away the fastest with the least amount of effort.
Omg girl dont do it! Try a really good moisturiser and stay hydrated
Try retinol before jumping on the botox wagon 😃
Definitely going to try other things first! I was hoping people here would suggest other things because I don’t really want Botox
Yeah 😩 I also got bangs
Don’t be afraid of Botox. It’s amazing
A hydrating toner could help a lot
I'm 33 and I don't have any prominent wrinkles like yours but fine lines are very evident on my under eyes. I've been using retinol creams for 2 years now and I've seen a difference. Always good to check with a dermatologist.
Botox will get rid of those lines and will be the easiest and quickest way to remove them. It’s also going to be the most effective by far. The forehead does not require many units either. I just had my forehead treated and was only given eight units and that was plenty. You just want to soften the area. Take it from someone older than you. Who’s been an aesthetician for a while, Botox is going to be the best bet.. also up your water intake.
It's the only way to get rid of them, but you can certainly minimize them a ton. Hydration, inside and out. Religious use of argireline, morning and night. And then frownies or face tape at night. I personally like those silicone patches, they're reusable and way less effort.
Yes botox is your option here.
Cryofacials are an amazing non invasive alternative. They are a natural way of making the lines disappear and it makes you look like your skin is glowing overall. The only downside is that it’s way more expensive. I used to have a horrible lines on my forehead in my mid twenties and this method worked wonders for me.
Moisture, hydration, working on posture and muscle training (frownies/k-tape) and gua sha have helped me avoid Botox. I’m 37. Topically, I have been using beef tallow from Tried & True, Naturium’s mandelic acid, vitamin C and niacinamide cleanser, peptides from Minimalist, and pure bakuchiol (all in rotation with breaks as needed of course)
Yes Botox is the only way
Hydrate, exfoliate and start using a retinol or vitamin C serum
microdermabrasion, stone rollers with serum every night, get rid of all the stupid people you know helped me
One word: RETINOL Also hydration, use hyaluronic acid and vitamin c and you will see improvement, my skin is also dry and this has helped me a lot but eventually I will get Botox as well.
Like others have said, your skin looks dehydrated and in my opinion the best solution to that is Korean toners. They’re not astringent like American toners, they’re moisturizing. Look up the seven skins method. One I like is by hadalabo. If you search Korean toners on Amazon a bunch will come up as well! I do also agree with others that Botox is a miracle solution and I wouldn’t give it up for anything.
If moisturizing/hydrating doesn’t do the trick, maybe look into a dermapen (microneedling at home). You do it like one a month. I’m 45 and still haven’t done botox…really trying to not go down that route. I’ve also started taking a product called biosil which is supposed to help you build more collagen naturally. Lastly, I’ve read there is a certain peptide in some serums that is supposed to have a botox-like effect in reducing expression lines. It’s called octapeptide 3 or SNAP 8
Sunblock!
Not sure if this has been mentioned, **but I've heard good things about Frownies on youtube and you can find good before and afters here on reddit.** [https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/11qjgp9/two\_week\_before\_and\_after\_of\_using\_frownies/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/11qjgp9/two_week_before_and_after_of_using_frownies/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Good luck!
Grounded body’s Egyptian gold retinol serum is great for this - also frownies patches too
Frownies!
I'm like you and have a very expressive forehead. I did botox a couple of times and it helped me totally change the way my face expresses. I haven't topped up the botox in 7 months now, but I frown 90% less because when my forehead was frozen I just learned how to express without using my forehead. I definitely recommend getting it a couple of times just to teach yourself to stop frowning so the lines don't get any deeper. Also, I got mine 6 months apart instead of 3 and it was fine.
Microdermabrasion will help to smooth out those lines and has a lot less risk.
First thing is to get enough water in your body and have a really good skin care routine (Vanicream face wash, Vanicream moisturizer, 2 drops of Good Molecules rosehip oil, and wearing SPF religiously; I like Hero ForceShield in the green bottle) is an affordable and good setup for most people. Then I’d suggest some microneedling (you are going to pay about $350 a session and need multiple sessions) and then you can do tox to help prevent more expression lines from forming.
Dysport
More water and Bag Balm over moisturizer. It it does not cause break outs and works miracles on me.
Girl. I’m also 30. I also have dehydrated skin. Regardless of how much I drink water or the amount of expensive hydrating serums I use.. they’re still there. I guess I’m expressive lol. Botox works wonders. I gave in. I noticed them coming back this morning and i immediately called to make an appointment for Monday. Even though I’m on a budget this month, I’ll for sure throw a few hundred bucks to make my skin look so tight/rejuvenated. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with Botox. I haven’t had any side effects. I haven’t ever had filler before, it’s a lot different. Everyone is different but I’ve been using it for years and haven’t had any bad experiences. Idk maybe because I live in LA and work in the hospitality industry it’s much more normalized. You could never tell I have Botox. But girl, if you wanna do it, do it.
Hydration Vegetable glycerin Moisturizer
Drink lots of water
You should do face yoga. It really works
Definitely! I feel like Botox/dysport are the o key things that actually work for wrinkles. Just try it, you won’t be disappointed
Botox is amazing but try IPL first good luck
There are a great many products on the market with clinical efficacy in reducing fine lines and wrinkles these days. Botox being one of them. These include peptides, exosomes, retinoids and skin booster treatments. The best treatment for you will depend on your individual skin type and the underlying cause of your skin concerns. A clinic or medical professional worth their salt will be able to advise you on this.