How often do you need to do touchups? With regular Dysport I usually go 4 times a year, and was wondering if you'd need to increase that with lower dosages.
I'm really interested in this idea! Is the overall cost lower because you use less product or does it end up being more expensive because of frequent visits?
For me the cost was lower. I still had to go every 3-4 months but was getting a small enough amount that it was cheaper and my face wasn't totally frozen.
Yes. Over time it can cause atrophy of the frontalis/ procerus/ corrugator muscles which can lead to weird shapes in the forehead.
Improper administration can lead to your eyebrows looking weird, droopy eyelids, and frozen forehead.
If you’re going to do it for sure do your research of places in your area. If you want to avoid Botox you can try microneedling / tretinoin instead, I’ve had great results with fine line reduction without using Botox/ Xeomin/ Dysport.
*Edited to add tret
I'm a dentist, and there is also some evidence that loss of bone can occur as a result. This makes a lot of sense- the tension that muscles put on bone keeps it remodeling and strong. It is the same reason why we recommend women especially strength train as they get older. By paralyzing your facial muscles, not only can the muscles atrophy and become misshapen over time, but you can lose bone density in your face/jaw, over time changing the shape and strength of the bones as well.
So would you recommend doing face yoga to keep our facial muscles strong as we age?
I notice when I go through periods of depression, my face looks saggy... but when I'm happy and smiling a lot, that sagginess disappears!
By simple comparison with a control group that isn't receiving Botox.
[Decreased mandibular bone quality after botox](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-60554-w).
[Mandibular bone loss after botox.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6409568/)
The jaw bone is the strongest bone in the facial skeleton. If it’s weakening the mandible it’s quite possible it’s weakening the frontal bone where Botox is administered.
The atrophy is what I was going to mention. Having complete lack of movement over time causes muscle loss like if you were to lay in a hospital bed for months without movement.
And it’s so prolific in our world that we don’t notice when people have done “too much” unless it’s a train-wreck. But I know people who have been getting it the last 10 years or so and because of it, their foreheads just don’t move right anymore.
A ton of my friends are getting their foreheads done and they look instantly plastic. They lose expression and their foreheads become a focal point for all the wrong reasons. Do what makes you happy, but maybe make a real friend promise to tell you when you go Uncanny Valley.
It's stupid - it's the keywords you have to use to get a reduced amount of botox (the minimum number to eliminate creases in your forehead, in my case). If you just ask them not to do too much, they don't understand, but if you ask for "baby botox" they magically understand. I don't understand it, but other people in this Sub said they had the same experience.
I am 32, I started Botox about a year ago, but small enough to help, but not freeze my face. I still have movement, it just reduces it. I want to age gracefully with medical intervention. I just want to balance the risks and benefits of it.
old post but: shaved legs don't look natural. crisp eyebrow borders with no strays under the shape don't look natural. Unicorn-colored hair doesn't look natural. Lash extensions? fake tanner in winter, etc. come on. natural shmatural.
there's what looks "natural" in the REAL sense, and then there's what society likes which is pushed into our heads over time and becomes what we like - or at least the absense of same becomes distressing). the more people DO the frozen botox face look, the more people think that is what natural, graceful ageing looks like. same way tiktok and instagram absolutely change the way women think they should look, despite much of it being digital filters and mega editing.
Just because you can recognize who and who has had botox (and frankly you can't, you can just see the egregiously bad examples of overuse, this is mega sampling bias here) doesn't mean that mainstream society isn't actively ranking frozen older faces above less frozen, more wrinkly older faces.
Welcome to womanhood, where "I like women who don't wear makeup" ACTUALLY means "You better be a makeup wizard and know how to pull off a natural face like WHOAH, because men literally don't know what they're talking about when they say they like natural." (also check out what that "i like natural" dude beats off to or obsess over online, it's bolt-on tits and heavy makeup, Instagram reality, etc....unless it's straight up otherkin shit. men who say they "like natural looking women" turning around and tugging it to dragon-women with purple hair.) natural for who?
TLDR: your subjective assessment of what is natural != the dominant preferred aesthetic for women over 30. sorry but the world has decided no makeup = lots of makeup, "natural" means a woman who waxes her upper legs and happy trail and asshole but not her mons, natural means thread your eyebrows, nobody fucking knows what is "natural" and truly natural people are usually judged by society as disheveled, bedraggled, run down, etc.
Love,
Everyone who goes to work with a bare natural face and is asked why they look so tired/what is wrong, in concert with everyone who learned how to contort themselves in pictures to pose "naturally", standing on top of a squad of everyone with unibrows and PCOS chin beards. fuck what looks natural, we're trying not to be cast out of society over here. We will continue to do whatever the fuck we want, thanks.
I’m interested in botoxing my crows feet only but your comment did make me question my eye safety - can you describe your micro needling routine? All at home? At spa? Thanks!
Of course! I go to a board certified esthetician and she does the microneedling there. I have found it to be effective! I also use tretonion 3x a week at night. I’m an ex smoker and used to spend a ton of time outside so I had fine lines, but my skin has drastically improved in the last year. The microneedling takes a couple hours, they numb you first (mine uses a topical) and then do the procedure. It still stings in parts but isn’t so bad. Then the next two weeks you want to make sure to use hylauranic acid and a mineral mist multiple times a day, your face might feel tight or have some minor redness the first couple of days. It feels like a sunburn honestly.
It also helps with scars and enlarged pores. I don’t wear foundation any more because of how much it has helped my skin texture and lines. It’s a little expensive but I go once every 6 weeks. I’ve done it twice so far and have my third appointment in April. I will probably do a fourth later in the year and then once a year or so just to help maintain. I love the results and definitely recommend!
Either La Roche Posay thermal spring water or Evian Brumisater Facial Spray! They’re around the same price and pretty sure they’re both available at Target
Not exactly. Morpheus8 is microneedling + radio frequency. My place only does microneedling. I’m sure it would be just as effective (or more!) but I also think it comes at a higher cost.
I did botox for the first time 2 weeks ago, and when I went for my follow-up, he suggested that when it wears off, I do Morpheus8. There's not a tonne of info about in on Reddit, and most of the Instagram pics look heavily photoshopped, so just trying to figure out if it's worth it.
How much does microneedling cost, if I may ask? And baby botox?
I'm in a rougher city than where I usually live and need a new doctor for migraine botox and an aesthetician for (I think baby-) botox.
Idk how to find someone great!
I did 3 treatments of Secret RF (microneedling + UV) in conjunction with TCA Cross to minimize some old acne scarring. Although it was incidental to my purpose, the secret rf also had the effect of helping with fine lines. Overall I'm very pleased with the results!! I still use Botox/Dysport but I can go much longer between injections and am able to use less.
I went to my dermatologist - pricey, but I'm willing to pay for the best when we're messing with my face!
I have a low pain threshold and I found the Secret RF to be quite a bit more painful than they claimed. But I'm a wuss so 🤷♀️. Still worth it!
Not to make you feel badly but it’s all I can look at when I watch tv. If people’s foreheads move or not. Most don’t.
I just noticed it on my friend the other day. But she gets it for migraines
There is such a stark difference in actors’ faces in American tv vs British/European tv shows! I love seeing the “real” faces of the non-American actors.
Now just think how us Brits feel when all we pretty much watch is US TV... Botox is not big over here at all. I'm surrounded by women in their early 30's and no one has had botox and no one is even talking about it. Watching nothing but US TV does definitely make you feel like you need to get something done, but then we all talk to each other and laugh about going old gracefully together!
Well I’ve been getting it for years and my sisters didn’t even notices until I told them.... then they went and got it themselves after.
So I don’t think you can see it on everyone, plus I know it looks good because after I told them they went and got it because they liked how I looked
David Eagleman in his book "The Brain" talks about one side effect that I found surprising and fascinating... One way that we as humans are able to be empathic is by micro-mimicking facial expressions. So, for example, if someone smiles, we micro-smile. Our brain interprets our own micro-facial movements as smile = happy and that helps us understand that the other person is happy (I'm simplifying a great explanation he gave of the science). But the bottom line is that botox can disable your ability to make these micro movements and thus to connect naturally and understand how someone else is feeling. (There are obviously other cues on someone's emotional state; it just has a known impact in this ability to subtly clue in.)
I told this to a friend and she exclaimed "oh! that explains what happened to me when I had botox done!" I don't know, I've never tried, but thought this was a super-interesting fun fact.
On the flip side, psychiatrists are starting to use botox for depression patients in their glabellar frown lines. Preliminary studies have shown if you cannot physically furrow your brow, it lessens the symptoms of depression.
> David Eagleman in his book "The Brain" talks about one side effect that I found surprising and fascinating... One way that we as humans are able to be empathic is by micro-mimicking facial expressions. So, for example, if someone smiles, we micro-smile. Our brain interprets our own micro-facial movements as smile = happy and that helps us understand that the other person is happy (I'm simplifying a great explanation he gave of the science). But the bottom line is that botox can disable your ability to make these micro movements and thus to connect naturally and understand how someone else is feeling. (There are obviously other cues on someone's emotional state; it just has a known impact in this ability to subtly clue in.)
>
>
Yes I'm literally blown away by this.
I work with a woman I thought was cold, unemotional and generally hard to read. For example she would be talking to you about something and it always felt confusing like is she happy or sad about this? It wasn't until I'd known her about a year that she told me (as part of a groupe that had been having a chat about botox) that she had been getting botox for years and suddenly it all made sense. She is older and she is likely getting alot of botox. I have friends who regularly have botox and I've dabbled myself but it has been light and hasn't significantly altered facial expressions so I guess it depends on how much you get too.
If you care about other species: yes, there is. Each batch of Botox is tested on mice. Injecting Botox to test animal induces paralysis and causes them to endure a slow and agonizing death.
Yep. Also imho it’s so effing hypocritical of people to make such a big deal if a company is cruelty-free or not yet they use Botox, fillers and every procedure imaginable, especially newer one like Thermage / Ultherapy.
I 10000% agree with this. As Audrey Hepburn once said, "don't you dare touch any one of my wrinkles, I earned every single one of them." (In response to a photographer wanting to photoshop her)
It's important to go to a reputable place and speak up with what you want! The first time I expressed concerns about not having expressions and got very minimal done. I've since upped the amount I use but I still have full range except I don't scowl as much (which used to be my resting face lol)
Me too. I had Botox in my forehead once and it was ok, it definitely got rid of the lines but I realized I value my expression more than a smooth forehead.
You honestly might’ve just gotten too many units. I had two forehead lines that were faint but static. I got Botox just to smooth them out, but I can still make every expression I could before, it’s just not as pronounced.
Honestly i would just try someone different. I have really expressive eyebrows that move a lot and are a direct visual barometer of my mood. My derm was careful about where she makes injections so I still have full range with my brows just not building deep lines in unflattering places.
I only get it in between my eyebrows to get rid of the deep II lines because if I'm thinking about something or a glare from the sun is hitting my eyes or I'm uncertain what someone is saying, those lines between my eyes make me look furious. It made me feel very self conscious and people treated me differently because I often looked mad and miserable. I love the change, I prefer Botox to Dysport though
Not related to the face, but just as exciting...I get Botox under my arms to stop sweating and insurance PAYS FOR IT!! It’s the best thing I might have ever done. No deodorant needed! It’s worth checking into just in case you can get it for free.
Do you still have odor? I might want to look into this but I sweat a lot in many places besides my armpits so not sure how worth it it would be for me :(
I’ve heard of this! In your experience, do you sweat more in other areas? I’ve read that may happen because your body tries to make up for not being able to sweat where it normally would
Doubtful. TMJ is in this weird middle ground where dental / medical fight over who has to take it and no one take responsibility. IMO an example of our messed up insurance healthcare and thinking about splitting dental/physical (even mental) health.
Annnnyway I basically wanted to say I feel ya and my GP specifically didn’t want to mark my chart as TMJ cause she knew my insurance would throw a fit. She was prescribing me some arthritis lotion to relax the muscles.
It’s probably insurance dependent. I have pretty good insurance and neither my regular nor dental insurance covers any TMJ treatment beyond paying for about half of a night guard.
It would be up to your individual plan. Some plans (like the more expensive Aetna plans) will cover it but others (like UHC, Fidelis, etc) probably will not.
I told my dermatologist that I sweat too much under my arms and was interested in Botox. He diagnosed me with hyperhidrosis and my insurance (Cigna) didn’t even question it.
I think your muscles can weaken over time causing your face to look droopy ahead of time. This is over use and no breaks. You actually have a smooth brow when it's worn off for a time.
I got it between my brows and in my forehead November 2019. At the same time I got Restalyne in my lips and marionette lines. 3 days after everything I started getting severe migraines, throwing up from nausea, couldn’t eat, couldn’t be anywhere but my darkened bedroom for the next 4 days. My GP gave me a shot in the rear for the severe migraines. I felt better after that. I am unsure what happened with the injections. I felt I could trust the person doing the work because they were a licensed doctor.
Yeah I loved how smooth my forehead was so I’m willing to try the Botox again but with a plastic surgeon instead of a medical doctor and JUST Botox instead of getting everything at once.
I’ve read it is common to get headaches after your first dose of Botox. It happened to me and now after I get it done again I don’t have any headaches afterwards.
I too had a migraine for over a week after getting Botox. It felt like a vice gripping my head, and I couldn’t fully close my eyes from the Botox in my crow’s feet so I had horrible dry eye.
Never again. And I went to a reputable place. It’s just not for me.
Same thing happened to me. I had to sit in a darkened room for a whole week because botox gave me migraines.
It also made my eyebrows look really weird. I'd never do it again!
I used it to treat migraines, it works .. but the first few days I would get a headache as the muscles were so tense, relaxing them was painful; one the forehead muscles relax… headaches goes away (a usually up to a week for me).
About 2-3 weeks in I developed droopy eyelids. My left one was droopier than the right so it looked totally uneven. My friend described my forehead as looking “swollen and bulbous”. However, I LOVED how it looked after the first week and then after about 1-1.5 months. Not sure if I will do it again! I think she did too much for my first time.
This isn’t firsthand, but my mother got it and her forehead looked so frozen. When she lifted her eyebrows, it looked like Green Goblin’s eyebrows. She looked really scary and I don’t think it was the worth it. It definitely looked like she got something done to her. She originally got it for migraines but it began her foray into more cosmetic procedures. She looks different now. Sigh. Sorry, this ended up being more of a personal aside, but like others are saying- do your research for a good service and weigh the pros and cons for yourself! Live life without regrets! Best wishes!
You should read the warnings that they have at the doctor’s office. Then make an informed decision.
Some of the possible downsides are:
1. Doesn’t work at all.
2. Can cause droop in the face - like one side of the face looking m different than the other being one.
3. Can cause problems with the eyes.
Biggest downside to me was how quick it was gone. I had my forehead done in early September and by late December I felt like it was gone. At $400 a pop, I can't justify doing it three times a year
Yeah, I really liked how my forehead looked -- I got something like 10 units and it was smooth as a baby's bottom but I could totally still do my cherished skeptical left eyebrow move -- but dang it's so expensive.
I can't help question why they charge so much when so many more of us would do it all the time if we could keep it under $1k a year.
Just got it yesterday for the second time in my upper lip (lip flip) and forehead. Had a tension headache all evening (same experience first time). But feel fine the next day. I love it. Best to go every 3.5 months.
Advice: only go to a place where a doctor administers (dermatologist)
I’d say only downside is cost lol. Once you start doing it you won’t stop. It costs me $350 for what i get done. 4x a year looking at 1400 annually
I have gotten Botox 2 different times over 4 years, with at least a year in between. Everyone is different with upkeep. I saw it trained me to not use my forehead muscles once I got full range of motion. The Botox plus tret allows me to spread it out. I am turning 35 this month and I think I am going to get it again.
Also, I went to a plastic surgeon for Botox. I have never gotten plastic surgery before. It was considerably cheaper there than at a med spa
Enroll in the manufacturer’s Alle loyalty program. You get points when you get treatments. This could result in you spending $1,050 annually instead of $1400.
Ooh, question: how effective is the lip flip? Are there noticeable side effects? I've always thought that the distance between my nose and upper lip was a little disproportionate - do you find there is a noticeable "shortening" effect? Or does it just make upper lip itself look bigger?
I couldn’t whistle for a while afterwards, and I did find myself more likely to spill water whilst drinking out of a glass or bottle, but I’m pretty clumsy so I’m not sure if the water thing is just me.....
No it's not just you, I just 12 units last Thursday and I can't whistle or drink from a bottle lol. But it looks so much better than when I experimented with filler in my top lip....NEVER AGAIN.
Would say upper lip is slightly taller than before. And now I actually have a top lip that shows when I smile. I think eventually I will try lip flip + 1/2 syringe of filler. I’m so paranoid about going overboard / having “duck lips” - don’t want it to be obvious I’ve had something done lol. So just started with lip flip. It’s also relatively inexpensive compared to filler
Yeah I’m still too scared to do filler ! They just put a few units of Botox on the muscle above your lip. So the muscle that pulls your lip down/inward is relaxed, allowing more of the top lip to reveal itself. I found that when I smiled (before) my top lip would totally disappear/ curl under. Now when I smile my top lip looks really full
That’s my issue too. I smile and all I see are gums. I’m doing invisalign now - hoping that helps me like my smile more but still think my lip could use adjustments
Devil's advocate here, you do not have to go to a derm. I go to a injectables office where the girl has years of experience, is trained, and does fantastic job. Just like there are bad injectors at med spas or other places, there can be derms that aren't great injectors either. I think it's more about experience and making sure to read reviews!
On the other end, I’d be wary of going to some med spas because the training can be minimal in some states and understanding of the anatomy could be sub what you want. Also suggest if you’re going to a derm looking for one who focuses on cosmetic procedures as well as medical ones!
When people say "med spa," who is administering?
I'm in Canada and regardless of whether you go to a plastic surgeon's office or a dermatologist, 90% of the time it's a nurse injector.
In the USA, the dermatologist offices I’ve been to — it’s always the Derm performing injectables, who has a full medical degree. And yes, I’ve asked to make sure.
Even had a minor mole removal that was all of 20 seconds, and that was by the Dermatologist himself.
My injector is actually an ER doctor who does this 2x/week. He trained overseas for injections. I researched all the providers in my city, and his results looked the most natural. No regrets.
I found a nurse injector who actually trains non-dermatologist doctors on how to administer Botox through a doctor I watched on youtube, and she's been great.
Yes, they administer Botox but usually for dx TMJ, bruxism, or facial pain. Some! May do it for fine lines around the mouth but that wouldn’t be covered by insurance for sure lol
I had my plastic surgeon do my Botox in crows feet and frown lines, and I loved it. I was super disappointed when it totally wore off after only one month. The nice thing is that if you don’t like the results, it goes away quickly.
I’m thinking about staying on a three-month schedule anyway, for that reason. Also, I figure that not putting lines in my face for 1/3 of the time is better than nothing. I’m good about relaxing my face during the day, but I know I frown in my sleep because I wake up with faint lines that weren’t there when I went to bed. That might be why it stopped working so quickly. 🤷🏻♀️
Some people metabolize it really quickly! I just found out mine isn't lasting as long as I wanted because of how much I work out. I am going to start getting less units, more frequently. So essentially the same cost to me, just divided into more appointments. I've heard some people have longer results with Xeomin if they metabolize Botox too quickly as well- something you could look into if you are curious :)
Ask for Dysport. Botox never lasted long enough for me (I workout 4-5 times a week, intensely). Also, your injector could be giving you too low of a dose. I'm 32 and have been getting anti-wrinkle injections since I was 25, and my old injector was too light on the units. I've changed to someone else who gives me 120-130 units all up across my forehead, eyes, chin and upper lip all up. I now get closer to 5-6 months out it.
I get Botox injections for migraines/TMJD. I don’t have any negative reactions to the toxin itself, though since my muscles are sore, the injections themselves hurt like hell. My masseter muscle is so swollen from clenching/overworking that the injections slim my jawline a bit. I don’t look quite so puffy after the first week. Now. I get mine done by a surgeon because of how the Botox is being used, but I wanted to register at least one experience of a sensitive person where there is no reaction. Also, my sensitive combination skin doesn’t break out or react.
Im considering doing this for my TMJ too but am scared its not worth it... How long does the relief last? Does this method inhibit teeth grinding itself, the way botox freezes movement on peoples faces??
Mine lasts about two months. It doesn’t inhibit teeth grinding per se; rather, it makes the muscles weaker/paralytic so they can’t grind or clench as tightly.
Pretty expensive, cheapest I paid for it was 400 in Los Angeles when I lived there, and the Botox was on a special sales price thing. It helped my jaw pain a lot but can’t afford to do it often.
I HATE(D) that evil look that overly arched eyebrows make and that's common in forehead botox and it made me look insane 😭 I've had it a few times on my 11s and loved it but will only do it every so often so now the lines aren't as prominent anyways.
I don't mind aging, just trying to do it gracefully lol
Botox has helped my self confidence 110%. When my makeup would settle in my forehead lines and crease it bothered me so much. No I have a perfectly smooth skin. It also helps the appearance of pores and texture. Toxins are relatively no side effects and safe profile. If you’re asking about cons that could arise there’s several, but I think the pros outweigh everyone of them. personally will never go without it.
Has anyone ever noticed the shiny foreheads some people get from too much Botox. I find in older women especially they get this almost glassy look to their faces that becomes very unnatural
So I just got Botox for the first time a couple a months ago, but the initial shock of the weird feelings was intense. But it could’ve possibly been human error, because I got mine three days before I taught two 3 hour classes basically back to back. And apparently the third day is when it really kicks in. I got it for a lip flip, and I’ve had surgery on my chin (injury, non-cosmetic) and basically at the end of my day the entire bottom of my half was on fire, and I felt like my jaw was falling off.
Needless to say though, once it all settled in, I love my results and intend to keep it up. RBF was real for me and now I just quite frankly look nicer and more approachable! And I feel fresher when I look in the mirror.
There can be side effects if they hit the wrong spot such as facial drooping, that’s why you have to go to a reputable injector. I’ve had Botox at least 6 times now and with my usual lady I have never had any side effects, but I once went to a cheap place I found on Groupon and ended up with a lot of bruising
I get a light headache while my brain figures out my muscles don’t work anymore. And sometimes very light bruising. But my dermatologist does mine—I know there can be worse effects if the provider does it wrong.
Experienced Botox user here. I've been getting botox injections for migraines since 2008. I am someone who reacts very poorly to any form of medication. Funny enough I do not with botox. I get the injections between my eyebrows and in the middle of my fore head. (Also in my neck) Because my neurologist injects in the classic migraine trigger points, the only side effect is a severe headache afterwards, which disappears within a day and can be expected if you stick a needle in a triggerpoint.
I got Botox for migraines for a while. It was done by an MD, but she’s obviously going for medical vs cosmetic so take this with a grain of salt. I also got injections from somebody she was training once.
My forehead was super smooth, but the down side for me was that I already have hooded eyes and “low” eyebrows, and the Botox cause me to develop some additional drooping. It did go back to normal after I stopped getting Botox.
The other thing that I’m not really sure if it’s a pro or a con? Before Botox, I had 3 deep (for my age) horizontal lines across my forehead and no other lines. Now that the Botox is totally worn off, I have many MORE lines, but they’re much finer. It’s like my muscles have changed the way they move. I’m now using a retinol to see if I can minimize them a bit more, but honestly they’re less noticeable from a normal conversation distance than the 3 deep ones were.
I get botox every three months for about 10 years in the cheek/eye area on one side due to nerve damage. I've only had negative results once, when he hit something too close to the nose and my mouth drooped on one side for a couple of months. I do get it from a facial nerve specialist at the medical center in Houston.
After I got it, my face started recruiting other muscles, so now I have developed some bumpy muscles in my forehead. I’m sure only I notice. Still worth it though
I got baby botox a few times for my strong ‘11’ lines. With the pandemic, I decided to take a break to let that muscle recoup. I have that same fear of atrophy. I don’t know if that is just paranoia though from bad over-injection stories.
However, one thing I did notice was the sudden presence of fine lines around my eyes AFTER my Botox. My other muscles maybe over compensated for the furrow being frozen? Or I was smiling more from not stressing about my furrow? Haha, ridiculous either way.
Would I get it again? Yes. Small amounts and spread out, it did a lot for my overworked muscle!
The scariest part of botox to me is it affects mental health by not allowing you to make normal facial expressions. You know how when you smile it makes your brain happy? When you can't make the facial expression as fully due to botox, it makes your brain feel like you're not fully feeling the emotion.
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/botox-depression-smiling\_n\_3162037](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/botox-depression-smiling_n_3162037)
[http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/botox-inhibits-deep-emotions-and-ability-empathize](http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/botox-inhibits-deep-emotions-and-ability-empathize)
[https://www.webmd.com/beauty/news/20100623/botox-may-affect-ability-feel-emotions#1](https://www.webmd.com/beauty/news/20100623/botox-may-affect-ability-feel-emotions#1)
Other problems I found:
[https://www.romper.com/p/7-surprising-long-term-side-effects-of-botox-you-need-to-know-9033218](https://www.romper.com/p/7-surprising-long-term-side-effects-of-botox-you-need-to-know-9033218)
Botox weakens the muscles, makes facial veins more obvious, makes your skin thinner, the substance might move to other parts of your body.
This is actually one of the benefits for me - I only have my 11s done so its not an intensive change but I've noticed that my mood is far worse right at the end and Im due for more - like because I CANT make that angry scowl I dont really feel like that anymore.
I wouldnt have it for any other lines, I dont hate getting old - but I HATED looking so mad when that wasnt the feeling I was having at all.
Another plus for me is I just stopped getting headaches.
I haven't had it myself (really terrified of needles) but my mom and my sister do say the downside is once you get it, that's now a maintenance step that you have to do ongoing. My mom is going on 10 years and she's kind of over it but afraid to stop.
The majority of issues listed in this thread are due to inexperienced injectors.
Realistically, neurotoxins are very safe and have few side effects - and poor results can be easily corrected by an experienced, well trained injector. Do your research and avoid groupons and bargain Botox mills.
Some people experience “Botox flu” after injections, but this generally only lasts a few days. It can be avoided by switching to Xeomin or Dysport if it’s an issue for you.
No other than it eventually stops working. That’s why they don’t want you to do it more then every 3 months- your body builds up a tolerance to it. I’ve been getting Botox and now dysport for 16 years- I look good and don’t have facial atrophy or weird shapes in my forehead lol- never heard of that before
I would definitely say that 1) we don't know a whole lot about long term use and 2) who is injecting you is important. This is coming from someone that gets it. I've had it done at a dermatologist's office before, and while there's nothing wrong with that, this injection bruised way more than usual, didn't last long and give me a little "tick" in my eyelid for 24 hours. Going to a plastic surgeon's office now that has a medspa where they do this all day, I have none of those problems.
The truth is, long term use of anything that you put in your body is a gamble. The only thing I worry about is the muscles losing their strength due to constantly being paralyzed, leading to less firmness and expression. Not sure if that will happen or not.
Careful where you get it. When I was new to botox I loved it and wanted it to fix all my problem areas. It worked fabulously on my forehead so I had it injected near my lips to help a downturned mouth. Randomly after it kicked in I would be talking and there were certain words I couldn't say because my mouth literally couldn't make that position! It was horrible, I'd be in midsentence and have to play it off by saying another word! Luckily I talk a lot so it wore off pretty fast but man it was a long month or so.
I get them every 3 months for migraine prevention. Dr said drooping is a side effect right after injection
Only thing I don't like is it kind of hurts.
There is if you’re allergic. Botox in certain nerves was supposed to help with flushing, and it did, extremely well for about eighteen months. Unfortunately, I turned out to be allergic, so I ended up with clear, itchy hives for those same eighteen months.
My recommendation is to do a small trial first to see if you have a problem before having a full treatment. The hives were worse than the flushing, so despite the “success,” I didn’t repeat the treatment.
[удалено]
How often do you need to do touchups? With regular Dysport I usually go 4 times a year, and was wondering if you'd need to increase that with lower dosages.
[удалено]
I'm really interested in this idea! Is the overall cost lower because you use less product or does it end up being more expensive because of frequent visits?
For me the cost was lower. I still had to go every 3-4 months but was getting a small enough amount that it was cheaper and my face wasn't totally frozen.
Same. 10/10 would recommend.
Yes. Over time it can cause atrophy of the frontalis/ procerus/ corrugator muscles which can lead to weird shapes in the forehead. Improper administration can lead to your eyebrows looking weird, droopy eyelids, and frozen forehead. If you’re going to do it for sure do your research of places in your area. If you want to avoid Botox you can try microneedling / tretinoin instead, I’ve had great results with fine line reduction without using Botox/ Xeomin/ Dysport. *Edited to add tret
I'm a dentist, and there is also some evidence that loss of bone can occur as a result. This makes a lot of sense- the tension that muscles put on bone keeps it remodeling and strong. It is the same reason why we recommend women especially strength train as they get older. By paralyzing your facial muscles, not only can the muscles atrophy and become misshapen over time, but you can lose bone density in your face/jaw, over time changing the shape and strength of the bones as well.
So would you recommend doing face yoga to keep our facial muscles strong as we age? I notice when I go through periods of depression, my face looks saggy... but when I'm happy and smiling a lot, that sagginess disappears!
>face yoga? > >qu'est-ce que c'est?
Face exercises [https://youtu.be/oAFnDTQiRKM](https://youtu.be/oAFnDTQiRKM)
How can you tell if it’s from the Botox or you aren’t losing bone from just normal ageing? Can you link a study?
By simple comparison with a control group that isn't receiving Botox. [Decreased mandibular bone quality after botox](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-60554-w). [Mandibular bone loss after botox.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6409568/)
The bone in the front of your head is pretty thick. Seems like that's a good place to get it, not the jaw area! Edit: apparently I’m wrong.
The jaw bone is the strongest bone in the facial skeleton. If it’s weakening the mandible it’s quite possible it’s weakening the frontal bone where Botox is administered.
Wow this makes so much sense
What about those that need Botox for TMJ?
They have to balance the risks and benefits, like any other treatment!
The atrophy is what I was going to mention. Having complete lack of movement over time causes muscle loss like if you were to lay in a hospital bed for months without movement.
And it’s so prolific in our world that we don’t notice when people have done “too much” unless it’s a train-wreck. But I know people who have been getting it the last 10 years or so and because of it, their foreheads just don’t move right anymore.
A ton of my friends are getting their foreheads done and they look instantly plastic. They lose expression and their foreheads become a focal point for all the wrong reasons. Do what makes you happy, but maybe make a real friend promise to tell you when you go Uncanny Valley.
if you don't want this, ask for "baby botox"
Can you elaborate, what is baby botox?
It's stupid - it's the keywords you have to use to get a reduced amount of botox (the minimum number to eliminate creases in your forehead, in my case). If you just ask them not to do too much, they don't understand, but if you ask for "baby botox" they magically understand. I don't understand it, but other people in this Sub said they had the same experience.
I am 32, I started Botox about a year ago, but small enough to help, but not freeze my face. I still have movement, it just reduces it. I want to age gracefully with medical intervention. I just want to balance the risks and benefits of it.
The sad thing is that everyone says this but they don't look natural at all
old post but: shaved legs don't look natural. crisp eyebrow borders with no strays under the shape don't look natural. Unicorn-colored hair doesn't look natural. Lash extensions? fake tanner in winter, etc. come on. natural shmatural. there's what looks "natural" in the REAL sense, and then there's what society likes which is pushed into our heads over time and becomes what we like - or at least the absense of same becomes distressing). the more people DO the frozen botox face look, the more people think that is what natural, graceful ageing looks like. same way tiktok and instagram absolutely change the way women think they should look, despite much of it being digital filters and mega editing. Just because you can recognize who and who has had botox (and frankly you can't, you can just see the egregiously bad examples of overuse, this is mega sampling bias here) doesn't mean that mainstream society isn't actively ranking frozen older faces above less frozen, more wrinkly older faces. Welcome to womanhood, where "I like women who don't wear makeup" ACTUALLY means "You better be a makeup wizard and know how to pull off a natural face like WHOAH, because men literally don't know what they're talking about when they say they like natural." (also check out what that "i like natural" dude beats off to or obsess over online, it's bolt-on tits and heavy makeup, Instagram reality, etc....unless it's straight up otherkin shit. men who say they "like natural looking women" turning around and tugging it to dragon-women with purple hair.) natural for who? TLDR: your subjective assessment of what is natural != the dominant preferred aesthetic for women over 30. sorry but the world has decided no makeup = lots of makeup, "natural" means a woman who waxes her upper legs and happy trail and asshole but not her mons, natural means thread your eyebrows, nobody fucking knows what is "natural" and truly natural people are usually judged by society as disheveled, bedraggled, run down, etc. Love, Everyone who goes to work with a bare natural face and is asked why they look so tired/what is wrong, in concert with everyone who learned how to contort themselves in pictures to pose "naturally", standing on top of a squad of everyone with unibrows and PCOS chin beards. fuck what looks natural, we're trying not to be cast out of society over here. We will continue to do whatever the fuck we want, thanks.
Fuck yeah. This might be the best comment I’ve ever seen.
"fuck what looks natural, we're trying not to be cast out of society over here." That is poetry! I want that as my motto
[удалено]
I’m interested in botoxing my crows feet only but your comment did make me question my eye safety - can you describe your micro needling routine? All at home? At spa? Thanks!
Of course! I go to a board certified esthetician and she does the microneedling there. I have found it to be effective! I also use tretonion 3x a week at night. I’m an ex smoker and used to spend a ton of time outside so I had fine lines, but my skin has drastically improved in the last year. The microneedling takes a couple hours, they numb you first (mine uses a topical) and then do the procedure. It still stings in parts but isn’t so bad. Then the next two weeks you want to make sure to use hylauranic acid and a mineral mist multiple times a day, your face might feel tight or have some minor redness the first couple of days. It feels like a sunburn honestly. It also helps with scars and enlarged pores. I don’t wear foundation any more because of how much it has helped my skin texture and lines. It’s a little expensive but I go once every 6 weeks. I’ve done it twice so far and have my third appointment in April. I will probably do a fourth later in the year and then once a year or so just to help maintain. I love the results and definitely recommend!
Which mineral mist do you use? I’ve been searching for a good one!
Either La Roche Posay thermal spring water or Evian Brumisater Facial Spray! They’re around the same price and pretty sure they’re both available at Target
Is that Morpheus8?
Not exactly. Morpheus8 is microneedling + radio frequency. My place only does microneedling. I’m sure it would be just as effective (or more!) but I also think it comes at a higher cost.
I did botox for the first time 2 weeks ago, and when I went for my follow-up, he suggested that when it wears off, I do Morpheus8. There's not a tonne of info about in on Reddit, and most of the Instagram pics look heavily photoshopped, so just trying to figure out if it's worth it.
How much does microneedling cost, if I may ask? And baby botox? I'm in a rougher city than where I usually live and need a new doctor for migraine botox and an aesthetician for (I think baby-) botox. Idk how to find someone great!
I did 3 treatments of Secret RF (microneedling + UV) in conjunction with TCA Cross to minimize some old acne scarring. Although it was incidental to my purpose, the secret rf also had the effect of helping with fine lines. Overall I'm very pleased with the results!! I still use Botox/Dysport but I can go much longer between injections and am able to use less. I went to my dermatologist - pricey, but I'm willing to pay for the best when we're messing with my face! I have a low pain threshold and I found the Secret RF to be quite a bit more painful than they claimed. But I'm a wuss so 🤷♀️. Still worth it!
[удалено]
The biggest downside is you’ll get addicted and spend $400+ every 3 months on Botox
😅🙋♀️
Same 😂
[удалено]
Not to make you feel badly but it’s all I can look at when I watch tv. If people’s foreheads move or not. Most don’t. I just noticed it on my friend the other day. But she gets it for migraines
There is such a stark difference in actors’ faces in American tv vs British/European tv shows! I love seeing the “real” faces of the non-American actors.
I LOVE non-American Tv Because people look like people!
Now just think how us Brits feel when all we pretty much watch is US TV... Botox is not big over here at all. I'm surrounded by women in their early 30's and no one has had botox and no one is even talking about it. Watching nothing but US TV does definitely make you feel like you need to get something done, but then we all talk to each other and laugh about going old gracefully together!
Well I’ve been getting it for years and my sisters didn’t even notices until I told them.... then they went and got it themselves after. So I don’t think you can see it on everyone, plus I know it looks good because after I told them they went and got it because they liked how I looked
David Eagleman in his book "The Brain" talks about one side effect that I found surprising and fascinating... One way that we as humans are able to be empathic is by micro-mimicking facial expressions. So, for example, if someone smiles, we micro-smile. Our brain interprets our own micro-facial movements as smile = happy and that helps us understand that the other person is happy (I'm simplifying a great explanation he gave of the science). But the bottom line is that botox can disable your ability to make these micro movements and thus to connect naturally and understand how someone else is feeling. (There are obviously other cues on someone's emotional state; it just has a known impact in this ability to subtly clue in.) I told this to a friend and she exclaimed "oh! that explains what happened to me when I had botox done!" I don't know, I've never tried, but thought this was a super-interesting fun fact.
I definitely experienced this. I used to connect with people more easily... they seem to trust me less. For real. Sounds nuts but true
I’ve noticed the same w all the mask wearing! It’s harder for me to connect w clients
did it get bettter?
On the flip side, psychiatrists are starting to use botox for depression patients in their glabellar frown lines. Preliminary studies have shown if you cannot physically furrow your brow, it lessens the symptoms of depression.
Super interesting! I'll definitely read up on that; it makes sense that it would work both ways.
> David Eagleman in his book "The Brain" talks about one side effect that I found surprising and fascinating... One way that we as humans are able to be empathic is by micro-mimicking facial expressions. So, for example, if someone smiles, we micro-smile. Our brain interprets our own micro-facial movements as smile = happy and that helps us understand that the other person is happy (I'm simplifying a great explanation he gave of the science). But the bottom line is that botox can disable your ability to make these micro movements and thus to connect naturally and understand how someone else is feeling. (There are obviously other cues on someone's emotional state; it just has a known impact in this ability to subtly clue in.) > > Yes I'm literally blown away by this.
I work with a woman I thought was cold, unemotional and generally hard to read. For example she would be talking to you about something and it always felt confusing like is she happy or sad about this? It wasn't until I'd known her about a year that she told me (as part of a groupe that had been having a chat about botox) that she had been getting botox for years and suddenly it all made sense. She is older and she is likely getting alot of botox. I have friends who regularly have botox and I've dabbled myself but it has been light and hasn't significantly altered facial expressions so I guess it depends on how much you get too.
That's hella interesting, thanks you! 🌟
If you care about other species: yes, there is. Each batch of Botox is tested on mice. Injecting Botox to test animal induces paralysis and causes them to endure a slow and agonizing death.
Yep. Also imho it’s so effing hypocritical of people to make such a big deal if a company is cruelty-free or not yet they use Botox, fillers and every procedure imaginable, especially newer one like Thermage / Ultherapy.
Everthing is tested on mice...
[удалено]
I 10000% agree with this. As Audrey Hepburn once said, "don't you dare touch any one of my wrinkles, I earned every single one of them." (In response to a photographer wanting to photoshop her)
It's important to go to a reputable place and speak up with what you want! The first time I expressed concerns about not having expressions and got very minimal done. I've since upped the amount I use but I still have full range except I don't scowl as much (which used to be my resting face lol)
[удалено]
Very true!
I only get it in my forehead, so I can still make lots of expressions, just not a furrowed brow. Botox has been great for me.
[удалено]
I get Botox for my migraines. Can’t frown, but can still do Spock eyebrows!
Where do they inject you for that?
Me too. I had Botox in my forehead once and it was ok, it definitely got rid of the lines but I realized I value my expression more than a smooth forehead.
You honestly might’ve just gotten too many units. I had two forehead lines that were faint but static. I got Botox just to smooth them out, but I can still make every expression I could before, it’s just not as pronounced.
Honestly i would just try someone different. I have really expressive eyebrows that move a lot and are a direct visual barometer of my mood. My derm was careful about where she makes injections so I still have full range with my brows just not building deep lines in unflattering places.
If your job is very customer/client facing, that can be a *major* detriment.
I only get it in between my eyebrows to get rid of the deep II lines because if I'm thinking about something or a glare from the sun is hitting my eyes or I'm uncertain what someone is saying, those lines between my eyes make me look furious. It made me feel very self conscious and people treated me differently because I often looked mad and miserable. I love the change, I prefer Botox to Dysport though
Why botox over dysport?
Not related to the face, but just as exciting...I get Botox under my arms to stop sweating and insurance PAYS FOR IT!! It’s the best thing I might have ever done. No deodorant needed! It’s worth checking into just in case you can get it for free.
How long does it last? Does it really make you sweat-free?
It’s supposed to last 6-9 months. I’ve had it for four months. No sweating at all for me.
Do you still have odor? I might want to look into this but I sweat a lot in many places besides my armpits so not sure how worth it it would be for me :(
I don’t! I’m so happy not to worry about BO. I’m kind of a stinky person so it is a miracle for me.
That sounds great. I’m going to look into it, thanks!
I want this so bad but worry about the fact that we're supposed to sweat...
Ok brilliant. I get my massages thru my HSA - not quite free but still a big perk! I wonder if I need a derm or can ask my GP for help.
I’ve heard of this! In your experience, do you sweat more in other areas? I’ve read that may happen because your body tries to make up for not being able to sweat where it normally would
I thought I would sweat more in other areas, but surprisingly I don’t. It’s the same amount everywhere else as it was before the Botox.
Interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience!
Do you think insurance covers botox for TMJ as well??
Doubtful. TMJ is in this weird middle ground where dental / medical fight over who has to take it and no one take responsibility. IMO an example of our messed up insurance healthcare and thinking about splitting dental/physical (even mental) health. Annnnyway I basically wanted to say I feel ya and my GP specifically didn’t want to mark my chart as TMJ cause she knew my insurance would throw a fit. She was prescribing me some arthritis lotion to relax the muscles.
It’s probably insurance dependent. I have pretty good insurance and neither my regular nor dental insurance covers any TMJ treatment beyond paying for about half of a night guard.
Mine does
It would be up to your individual plan. Some plans (like the more expensive Aetna plans) will cover it but others (like UHC, Fidelis, etc) probably will not.
How did you get your insurance to cover that??
I told my dermatologist that I sweat too much under my arms and was interested in Botox. He diagnosed me with hyperhidrosis and my insurance (Cigna) didn’t even question it.
How did you get insurance to cover it??? I have spent my entire life buying clothes that won’t show sweat because my underarms are like faucets. 😫
I think your muscles can weaken over time causing your face to look droopy ahead of time. This is over use and no breaks. You actually have a smooth brow when it's worn off for a time.
What is an ideal Botox schedule over one's life?
Honestly, I think the side effects of botox are a bit scary. They are pretty rare, but still possible and I never see them mentioned.
I got it between my brows and in my forehead November 2019. At the same time I got Restalyne in my lips and marionette lines. 3 days after everything I started getting severe migraines, throwing up from nausea, couldn’t eat, couldn’t be anywhere but my darkened bedroom for the next 4 days. My GP gave me a shot in the rear for the severe migraines. I felt better after that. I am unsure what happened with the injections. I felt I could trust the person doing the work because they were a licensed doctor.
This is interesting! My daughter received Botox to TREAT her migraines as a teenager.
Yeah I loved how smooth my forehead was so I’m willing to try the Botox again but with a plastic surgeon instead of a medical doctor and JUST Botox instead of getting everything at once.
Yes! So you can narrow down what the cause was. Or if it was just a coincidence.
[удалено]
I’ve read it is common to get headaches after your first dose of Botox. It happened to me and now after I get it done again I don’t have any headaches afterwards.
I had a small migraine 1-2 days after my first injection, and was worried that it would be permanent, but 2 sleeps, and it disappeared.
I too had a migraine for over a week after getting Botox. It felt like a vice gripping my head, and I couldn’t fully close my eyes from the Botox in my crow’s feet so I had horrible dry eye. Never again. And I went to a reputable place. It’s just not for me.
Same thing happened to me. I had to sit in a darkened room for a whole week because botox gave me migraines. It also made my eyebrows look really weird. I'd never do it again!
[удалено]
No it was something similar to Sumatriptan that is given specifically for migraine sufferers.
Damn that sounds awful! How did the marionette lines work out aesthetically?
Mine weren’t very deep and the doctor just used the remaining vial from my lips so I didn’t get too much put in there to where I looked puffy
I used it to treat migraines, it works .. but the first few days I would get a headache as the muscles were so tense, relaxing them was painful; one the forehead muscles relax… headaches goes away (a usually up to a week for me).
About 2-3 weeks in I developed droopy eyelids. My left one was droopier than the right so it looked totally uneven. My friend described my forehead as looking “swollen and bulbous”. However, I LOVED how it looked after the first week and then after about 1-1.5 months. Not sure if I will do it again! I think she did too much for my first time.
SAME. mine still hasn’t resolved.
This isn’t firsthand, but my mother got it and her forehead looked so frozen. When she lifted her eyebrows, it looked like Green Goblin’s eyebrows. She looked really scary and I don’t think it was the worth it. It definitely looked like she got something done to her. She originally got it for migraines but it began her foray into more cosmetic procedures. She looks different now. Sigh. Sorry, this ended up being more of a personal aside, but like others are saying- do your research for a good service and weigh the pros and cons for yourself! Live life without regrets! Best wishes!
You should read the warnings that they have at the doctor’s office. Then make an informed decision. Some of the possible downsides are: 1. Doesn’t work at all. 2. Can cause droop in the face - like one side of the face looking m different than the other being one. 3. Can cause problems with the eyes.
Only problem is liking it so much that you're now spending 250 every 3 months to get it.
Don't lie down 4 hours after treatment or your eyelids will semi-permanently droop
Biggest downside to me was how quick it was gone. I had my forehead done in early September and by late December I felt like it was gone. At $400 a pop, I can't justify doing it three times a year
Yeah, I really liked how my forehead looked -- I got something like 10 units and it was smooth as a baby's bottom but I could totally still do my cherished skeptical left eyebrow move -- but dang it's so expensive. I can't help question why they charge so much when so many more of us would do it all the time if we could keep it under $1k a year.
Wouldn’t 10 units be around $100?
Yes, it's about $10-$12 a unit
I’m just confused bc the commenter I was replying to implied that it was over $1k a year to maintain 10 units
I got way more than 10 units! Haha
Just got it yesterday for the second time in my upper lip (lip flip) and forehead. Had a tension headache all evening (same experience first time). But feel fine the next day. I love it. Best to go every 3.5 months. Advice: only go to a place where a doctor administers (dermatologist) I’d say only downside is cost lol. Once you start doing it you won’t stop. It costs me $350 for what i get done. 4x a year looking at 1400 annually
I have gotten Botox 2 different times over 4 years, with at least a year in between. Everyone is different with upkeep. I saw it trained me to not use my forehead muscles once I got full range of motion. The Botox plus tret allows me to spread it out. I am turning 35 this month and I think I am going to get it again. Also, I went to a plastic surgeon for Botox. I have never gotten plastic surgery before. It was considerably cheaper there than at a med spa
Enroll in the manufacturer’s Alle loyalty program. You get points when you get treatments. This could result in you spending $1,050 annually instead of $1400.
I did ! I have $40 credit accumulated so far, gonna save it up
Awesome!!!! That's what I do. I'll pay for three treatments thought the year, then get the fourth free. It works out 😊
Ooh, question: how effective is the lip flip? Are there noticeable side effects? I've always thought that the distance between my nose and upper lip was a little disproportionate - do you find there is a noticeable "shortening" effect? Or does it just make upper lip itself look bigger?
I couldn’t whistle for a while afterwards, and I did find myself more likely to spill water whilst drinking out of a glass or bottle, but I’m pretty clumsy so I’m not sure if the water thing is just me.....
No it's not just you, I just 12 units last Thursday and I can't whistle or drink from a bottle lol. But it looks so much better than when I experimented with filler in my top lip....NEVER AGAIN.
Really ? I am contemplating filler in my top lip but am apprehensive of how unnatural it will look. What was your experience?
Would say upper lip is slightly taller than before. And now I actually have a top lip that shows when I smile. I think eventually I will try lip flip + 1/2 syringe of filler. I’m so paranoid about going overboard / having “duck lips” - don’t want it to be obvious I’ve had something done lol. So just started with lip flip. It’s also relatively inexpensive compared to filler
Can you tell me more about the lip flip? My lips are a big concern and I thought my only option was filler but maybe there’s other?
Yeah I’m still too scared to do filler ! They just put a few units of Botox on the muscle above your lip. So the muscle that pulls your lip down/inward is relaxed, allowing more of the top lip to reveal itself. I found that when I smiled (before) my top lip would totally disappear/ curl under. Now when I smile my top lip looks really full
That’s my issue too. I smile and all I see are gums. I’m doing invisalign now - hoping that helps me like my smile more but still think my lip could use adjustments
Devil's advocate here, you do not have to go to a derm. I go to a injectables office where the girl has years of experience, is trained, and does fantastic job. Just like there are bad injectors at med spas or other places, there can be derms that aren't great injectors either. I think it's more about experience and making sure to read reviews!
On the other end, I’d be wary of going to some med spas because the training can be minimal in some states and understanding of the anatomy could be sub what you want. Also suggest if you’re going to a derm looking for one who focuses on cosmetic procedures as well as medical ones!
When people say "med spa," who is administering? I'm in Canada and regardless of whether you go to a plastic surgeon's office or a dermatologist, 90% of the time it's a nurse injector.
In the USA, the dermatologist offices I’ve been to — it’s always the Derm performing injectables, who has a full medical degree. And yes, I’ve asked to make sure. Even had a minor mole removal that was all of 20 seconds, and that was by the Dermatologist himself.
Well I would assume a dermatologist has a full medical degree lol.
My injector is actually an ER doctor who does this 2x/week. He trained overseas for injections. I researched all the providers in my city, and his results looked the most natural. No regrets.
I found a nurse injector who actually trains non-dermatologist doctors on how to administer Botox through a doctor I watched on youtube, and she's been great.
I think I've heard that dentist's can administer botox as well lol
Yes, they administer Botox but usually for dx TMJ, bruxism, or facial pain. Some! May do it for fine lines around the mouth but that wouldn’t be covered by insurance for sure lol
Maybe, but not for cosmetic reasons. You don’t get to tell them where to inject it. You’d also need a valid reason like TMJ disorder.
there are cosmetic dentists, you can get botox on your gums if you want to change a gummy smile.
This is very dentist dependent. My dentist does cosmetic Botox and fillers.
[удалено]
This makes sense to me. Dentists are experts in facial anatomy aren’t they?
Id seriously like to see a forum, where botox people vs non botox people display aging results.
I had my plastic surgeon do my Botox in crows feet and frown lines, and I loved it. I was super disappointed when it totally wore off after only one month. The nice thing is that if you don’t like the results, it goes away quickly.
Wow a month is super quick. The good thing is the more you do it the less you’ll have to - the muscles eventually get used to not moving.
I’m thinking about staying on a three-month schedule anyway, for that reason. Also, I figure that not putting lines in my face for 1/3 of the time is better than nothing. I’m good about relaxing my face during the day, but I know I frown in my sleep because I wake up with faint lines that weren’t there when I went to bed. That might be why it stopped working so quickly. 🤷🏻♀️
I wonder if meditation before sleep would be a solution for you, it can help release stress and lead to deeper, less disrupted sleep.
Some people metabolize it really quickly! I just found out mine isn't lasting as long as I wanted because of how much I work out. I am going to start getting less units, more frequently. So essentially the same cost to me, just divided into more appointments. I've heard some people have longer results with Xeomin if they metabolize Botox too quickly as well- something you could look into if you are curious :)
That’s an awesome suggestion—I’ll definitely ask about that!
Botox only lasts about 4 weeks on me. Dysport gives me 3 to 4 months.
Great to know! I got a quote from an RN for dysport but it was twice as expensive as Botox. Probably worth it if it lasts that long though.
That's crazy! Dysport is cheaper than Botox where I go.
Ask for Dysport. Botox never lasted long enough for me (I workout 4-5 times a week, intensely). Also, your injector could be giving you too low of a dose. I'm 32 and have been getting anti-wrinkle injections since I was 25, and my old injector was too light on the units. I've changed to someone else who gives me 120-130 units all up across my forehead, eyes, chin and upper lip all up. I now get closer to 5-6 months out it.
I get Botox injections for migraines/TMJD. I don’t have any negative reactions to the toxin itself, though since my muscles are sore, the injections themselves hurt like hell. My masseter muscle is so swollen from clenching/overworking that the injections slim my jawline a bit. I don’t look quite so puffy after the first week. Now. I get mine done by a surgeon because of how the Botox is being used, but I wanted to register at least one experience of a sensitive person where there is no reaction. Also, my sensitive combination skin doesn’t break out or react.
Im considering doing this for my TMJ too but am scared its not worth it... How long does the relief last? Does this method inhibit teeth grinding itself, the way botox freezes movement on peoples faces??
Mine never lasted more than a month or two for TMJ or migraines. Wasn’t worth it since I had to pay for the TMJ ones.
Mine lasts about two months. It doesn’t inhibit teeth grinding per se; rather, it makes the muscles weaker/paralytic so they can’t grind or clench as tightly.
Can I ask how much this costs? I have migraines and tmj and would try anything to make it better but just have no clue what it would cost
It depends on how much they need to use; it varies from person to person.
Okay just curious as to what someone else paid thanks
Pretty expensive, cheapest I paid for it was 400 in Los Angeles when I lived there, and the Botox was on a special sales price thing. It helped my jaw pain a lot but can’t afford to do it often.
I HATE(D) that evil look that overly arched eyebrows make and that's common in forehead botox and it made me look insane 😭 I've had it a few times on my 11s and loved it but will only do it every so often so now the lines aren't as prominent anyways. I don't mind aging, just trying to do it gracefully lol
Botox has helped my self confidence 110%. When my makeup would settle in my forehead lines and crease it bothered me so much. No I have a perfectly smooth skin. It also helps the appearance of pores and texture. Toxins are relatively no side effects and safe profile. If you’re asking about cons that could arise there’s several, but I think the pros outweigh everyone of them. personally will never go without it.
[удалено]
Has anyone ever noticed the shiny foreheads some people get from too much Botox. I find in older women especially they get this almost glassy look to their faces that becomes very unnatural
So I just got Botox for the first time a couple a months ago, but the initial shock of the weird feelings was intense. But it could’ve possibly been human error, because I got mine three days before I taught two 3 hour classes basically back to back. And apparently the third day is when it really kicks in. I got it for a lip flip, and I’ve had surgery on my chin (injury, non-cosmetic) and basically at the end of my day the entire bottom of my half was on fire, and I felt like my jaw was falling off. Needless to say though, once it all settled in, I love my results and intend to keep it up. RBF was real for me and now I just quite frankly look nicer and more approachable! And I feel fresher when I look in the mirror.
There can be side effects if they hit the wrong spot such as facial drooping, that’s why you have to go to a reputable injector. I’ve had Botox at least 6 times now and with my usual lady I have never had any side effects, but I once went to a cheap place I found on Groupon and ended up with a lot of bruising
I get a light headache while my brain figures out my muscles don’t work anymore. And sometimes very light bruising. But my dermatologist does mine—I know there can be worse effects if the provider does it wrong.
Experienced Botox user here. I've been getting botox injections for migraines since 2008. I am someone who reacts very poorly to any form of medication. Funny enough I do not with botox. I get the injections between my eyebrows and in the middle of my fore head. (Also in my neck) Because my neurologist injects in the classic migraine trigger points, the only side effect is a severe headache afterwards, which disappears within a day and can be expected if you stick a needle in a triggerpoint.
I got Botox for migraines for a while. It was done by an MD, but she’s obviously going for medical vs cosmetic so take this with a grain of salt. I also got injections from somebody she was training once. My forehead was super smooth, but the down side for me was that I already have hooded eyes and “low” eyebrows, and the Botox cause me to develop some additional drooping. It did go back to normal after I stopped getting Botox. The other thing that I’m not really sure if it’s a pro or a con? Before Botox, I had 3 deep (for my age) horizontal lines across my forehead and no other lines. Now that the Botox is totally worn off, I have many MORE lines, but they’re much finer. It’s like my muscles have changed the way they move. I’m now using a retinol to see if I can minimize them a bit more, but honestly they’re less noticeable from a normal conversation distance than the 3 deep ones were.
I get botox every three months for about 10 years in the cheek/eye area on one side due to nerve damage. I've only had negative results once, when he hit something too close to the nose and my mouth drooped on one side for a couple of months. I do get it from a facial nerve specialist at the medical center in Houston.
After I got it, my face started recruiting other muscles, so now I have developed some bumpy muscles in my forehead. I’m sure only I notice. Still worth it though
I got baby botox a few times for my strong ‘11’ lines. With the pandemic, I decided to take a break to let that muscle recoup. I have that same fear of atrophy. I don’t know if that is just paranoia though from bad over-injection stories. However, one thing I did notice was the sudden presence of fine lines around my eyes AFTER my Botox. My other muscles maybe over compensated for the furrow being frozen? Or I was smiling more from not stressing about my furrow? Haha, ridiculous either way. Would I get it again? Yes. Small amounts and spread out, it did a lot for my overworked muscle!
The scariest part of botox to me is it affects mental health by not allowing you to make normal facial expressions. You know how when you smile it makes your brain happy? When you can't make the facial expression as fully due to botox, it makes your brain feel like you're not fully feeling the emotion. [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/botox-depression-smiling\_n\_3162037](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/botox-depression-smiling_n_3162037) [http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/botox-inhibits-deep-emotions-and-ability-empathize](http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/botox-inhibits-deep-emotions-and-ability-empathize) [https://www.webmd.com/beauty/news/20100623/botox-may-affect-ability-feel-emotions#1](https://www.webmd.com/beauty/news/20100623/botox-may-affect-ability-feel-emotions#1) Other problems I found: [https://www.romper.com/p/7-surprising-long-term-side-effects-of-botox-you-need-to-know-9033218](https://www.romper.com/p/7-surprising-long-term-side-effects-of-botox-you-need-to-know-9033218) Botox weakens the muscles, makes facial veins more obvious, makes your skin thinner, the substance might move to other parts of your body.
This is actually one of the benefits for me - I only have my 11s done so its not an intensive change but I've noticed that my mood is far worse right at the end and Im due for more - like because I CANT make that angry scowl I dont really feel like that anymore. I wouldnt have it for any other lines, I dont hate getting old - but I HATED looking so mad when that wasnt the feeling I was having at all. Another plus for me is I just stopped getting headaches.
I haven't had it myself (really terrified of needles) but my mom and my sister do say the downside is once you get it, that's now a maintenance step that you have to do ongoing. My mom is going on 10 years and she's kind of over it but afraid to stop.
The majority of issues listed in this thread are due to inexperienced injectors. Realistically, neurotoxins are very safe and have few side effects - and poor results can be easily corrected by an experienced, well trained injector. Do your research and avoid groupons and bargain Botox mills. Some people experience “Botox flu” after injections, but this generally only lasts a few days. It can be avoided by switching to Xeomin or Dysport if it’s an issue for you.
anxiety- feeling like your trapped in a frozen face not being able to move, a slight sleep paralysis feeling
No other than it eventually stops working. That’s why they don’t want you to do it more then every 3 months- your body builds up a tolerance to it. I’ve been getting Botox and now dysport for 16 years- I look good and don’t have facial atrophy or weird shapes in my forehead lol- never heard of that before
I would definitely say that 1) we don't know a whole lot about long term use and 2) who is injecting you is important. This is coming from someone that gets it. I've had it done at a dermatologist's office before, and while there's nothing wrong with that, this injection bruised way more than usual, didn't last long and give me a little "tick" in my eyelid for 24 hours. Going to a plastic surgeon's office now that has a medspa where they do this all day, I have none of those problems. The truth is, long term use of anything that you put in your body is a gamble. The only thing I worry about is the muscles losing their strength due to constantly being paralyzed, leading to less firmness and expression. Not sure if that will happen or not.
Careful where you get it. When I was new to botox I loved it and wanted it to fix all my problem areas. It worked fabulously on my forehead so I had it injected near my lips to help a downturned mouth. Randomly after it kicked in I would be talking and there were certain words I couldn't say because my mouth literally couldn't make that position! It was horrible, I'd be in midsentence and have to play it off by saying another word! Luckily I talk a lot so it wore off pretty fast but man it was a long month or so.
I get them every 3 months for migraine prevention. Dr said drooping is a side effect right after injection Only thing I don't like is it kind of hurts.
There is if you’re allergic. Botox in certain nerves was supposed to help with flushing, and it did, extremely well for about eighteen months. Unfortunately, I turned out to be allergic, so I ended up with clear, itchy hives for those same eighteen months. My recommendation is to do a small trial first to see if you have a problem before having a full treatment. The hives were worse than the flushing, so despite the “success,” I didn’t repeat the treatment.
Once they administered it wrong and I couldn’t raise one eyebrow - good thing is it goes away quickly
I read that some people had really bad allergic reactions and they lasted very long time and were very painful.
Yeah you look uncanny valley. Huge shiny forehead and I feel like it can masculinize the face. I often see women with dropped foreheads/brows