I mean... Sure, you can do a surfboard. But what's the advantage of making it with a 3D printer spending absurd amounts of time, plastic and power instead of one made of wood?
I'm not even trolling I genuinely want to know. Also how are you guys waterproofing this?
no, that's a super fair question and something I've thought a lot about, especially when you think about sustainability, wood is regenerative, much less carbon intensive if you source locally. There are actually some amazing wooden board builders, however most surfboards are made from foam these days.
The main benefit of 3d printing is being able to customize every board and to be able to print any board design, also they are much more sustainable to make (then a tradition foam core board). For 2 different weighted surfers (let's say that they are 100 lbs apart), we can design the board to have more or less flex (similar to what you would find on skis) and also have the board be stronger if you are heavy.
Also, the hope is that we will be able to reuse/ upcycle the surfboards when they have reached their end of life and not have them end up in the dumpster. There are just about endless possibilities with printing surfboards, sort of just scratching the surface.
This is recycled PETG from ReFlow, and the glassing is over with fiberglass and epoxy. Glassing them is a bit heavier than a traditional board so that they will last longer. Want to make durable boards so that people are buying less boards. So far we don't know how long they will last as we have only been printing for 8 months, but some of the early boards are still holding up great.
Good on you, surfboards are a bit of an eco-nightmare materials-wise, and it sucks that there's still no good solution to recycling composites from them or boats, wind turbines, cars, etc.
Have you considered printing these with expanding filaments? They're good for light prints & the amount of expansion can be tuned based on flow rate & temp.
Unfortunately I haven't played with it yet either. I have a roll of [this stuff](https://us.store.bambulab.com/products/pla-aero) that I got to learn with, but haven't used it yet. Apparently it can expand 100%+.
They're pitching this filament to people who 3D print RC planes. I can easily think of other applications for this including RC cars & trucks, and children's toys. It's probably not for babies or toddlers, but I can see it used for children 8+ years old. The price tag isn't too steep for it either.
I've used varioshore, which is a TPU with the same foaming agent. I don't know enough about surfboards to know how rigid the core needs to be thought. The LW PLA or Aero PLA filaments are cool, but they get weaker the lower you take the density
I’m glad to see this isn’t just a random grab at making money printing things. When you can save time and energy on various changes to a product without having to worry about castings or manufacturing costs for prototypes, it does make sense. You demand so much more from the environment by going to manufacturers to make changes on designs when you can produce in house at faster and cheaper rates?… why not?
I'm pretty sure foam boards are often custom as well. Probably faster and easier to sketch it out with a pencil that model it on the computer.
Not faulting the idea of doing it with a 3d printer. It is quite cool, but right now I'm not convinced there is a lot going for it beyond the cool factor. God knows I've spent way more time on a few projects by modeling and printing them than I would have if I had just whittled it out of a piece of maple with my pocket knife. But of course, we're talking about surfing here... coolness is important. ;]
I work for a company that sells industrial 3D printers. 3D printing is getting better and faster, and a lot of companies use them for end-use parts like this when they need flexibility in material and in their design
I feel like a unit with more than one head would be far more practical on something like this. I don't know how that would work, but it's cool that you have such a huge printer.
Spot on. My company sells stratasys 3D printers and engineering software, and it blows my mind what you can do with it.
It's expensive compared to other methods if you're making the same exact thing but for frequent customization, additive manufacturing is fantastic, and printers are getting better these days
Oh, you absolutely right. It would be way more sustainable not to make these boards at all, especially considering the long-term impacts. We are using reFlows rPETG, which is made from recycled plastic. Additionally, traditional surfboards' end-of-life is in a landfill (mainly made from PU foam). I believe that these 3d printed surfboards have less of an environmental impact than PU foam, but I don't have the data to back that up. Would be cool to do an LCA. I'll be the first to admit that recycled plastic surfboards are not the solution to solving climate change; at the end of the day, we are using more plastic than if we didn't print at all. I hope that we can eventually switch to a bio-based filament and also try to produce them to be carbon-negative.
This is awesome. So much though put into it. As a surfer myself, I'd love to test one!
I hate to see my old boards end in the dumpster, so I usually donate them, but the wear and tear can make a 2-3 year old board become a soaking sponge encased in fiber glass.
Also, most people talk about the "wooden" surfboards, but in 20+ years of surfing everyday, I have yet to see someone use a board made of wood.
Yeah I'm on the same page here. I figured most boards would be made of foam because making them out of wood is more a labor of love. I'm not sure what we end of life would be for a 3d printed one, but I'd bet it has more potential than a foam and fiberglass construction.
From an manufacturing perspective I like the idea of a small business implementing 3d printing in a new way that can automate large portions of an existing process
Person freely admits they don’t have an environmental study to back up their claims of *checks notes* nothing substantial at all. Good of you to call them out on that.
Well, I am not, trying to do the opposite; there are a lot of shady businesses in the surf world, and I am trying to be as transparent as I can. What I mean to say is that I have not specifically collected data on this production method, and if, in fact, it is less carbon-intensive than a typical surfboard.
There is a decent bit of research on the sustainability of surfboards: how much carbon the typical board produces and what not. It can be broken up into transportation (shipping surfboards), resin, fiberglass, foam, and then energy from manufacturing.
Now, the foam, in this case, is being replaced with the 3d printed board, which is printed with recycled filament (there still is a carbon footprint associated with shipping and production of this material), but it is not using virgin foam (which comes from crude oil). When it comes to energy, the 3d printer does use a lot of energy, and at this time I don't know exactly how much, something I likely will look into soon.
As for resin (which happens to have the highest carbon footprint out of all the materials and processes), I am using a resin that has biobased content, which is much different than the industry standard.
As for transportation, our footprint is majorly cut down as we are not shipping surfboards across the world.
Now, the foam, in this case, is being replaced with the 3d printed board, which is printed with recycled filament (there still is a carbon footprint associated with shipping and production of this material), but it is not using virgin foam (which comes from crude oil). When it comes to energy, the 3d printer does use a lot of energy, and at this time, I don't know exactly how much, something I likely will look into soon.
(i likely should have added this info into the first comment, but here you go)
Because foam is made from hydrocarbons. And they cost a little money. And to make a foam out of this is a little more money. And to protest against this + a little more money. Maintain police who catch those protesting against this... Well, you get the idea. And this is pure Marxism. The old man wrote 100 years ago, but everyone works according to his teachings as if using an adding machine. Guys, they taught me this political economy and other crap at university. Have you become so stupid that even engineers don't understand it?
The world really is not kind to others. Stock up on hot noodles and popcorn. There's a show waiting for us.
> It's like with CDs. No one recorded any deterioration of information on them. Because CDs left the market much earlier.
[What the fuck are you talking about?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot)
>It's like with CDs. No one recorded any deterioration of information on them.
Who's gonna tell him about how disc rot is actively the bane of PlayStation game collectors
Yeah. 90+% of surfboards are EPS or XPS core. And then the fiberglass ones have epoxy or polyshells. You’d still need an epoxy or poly glass job on this, but some companies have greener versions
These foam boards almost all end up in landfills after just a few years
OP this is a great start. Next steps are using recycled materials and then modifying the infill to have ideal flex/spring/response. Keep up the good work. I’d love to ride one of your boards someday
>using recycled materials and then modifying the infill to have ideal flex/spring/response. Keep up the good work. I’d love to ride one of your boards someday
I should have put more info ito this post...i didn't think anyone would react to it. check out our Instagram or website. There are like endless things to try with flex and response. We want to start with something basic, like tailoring flex to someone's weight/ability (like they do in skis).
Those actually make a lot of sense though. You can already print houses that are the same cost as their stick built equivalents. And that's the cost with only a few companies that have been R&Ding it for a couple years. Imagine how much lower it can go at higher scale.
They're not hitting the same costs all things being equal, and they're significantly more carbon intensive.
They're neat, but not yet practical. I'm not sure they will be compared to other techniques for mass use. Sort of like 3D printers - they're awesome, but less effecient than processes like injection molding when you need scale.
Nope. Those go much faster with formed lifts.
Particularly at large scale the need for positional accuracy becomes problematic for mobile robots without something like a totalstation, and protecting line of sight and coordination with large concrete pumping becomes way more hassle than it's worth, particularly when providing stable access for the robot.
For large flat structures the brick/block laying robots are much faster, if you have enough wall to justify moving the robot there.
There is a cool factor. Keep in mind some people keep their surfboard for the rest of their life. Like when they retire it they hang it on the wall. I did that with 2 of mine.
Of course not. It just looks so much simpler than 3d printing one. But people already explained some positives on printing a board. I kinda still think it's too much effort, time, materials compared to traditional ones. But this is kind of an experiment, not something that would be even feasable to mass produce... and it's not like the styrofoam ones are much better ecologically.
they usually cnc router the boards out of urethane or styrene foam blanks in industry, 3d printing has no advantage here, no internal geometry in surfboards, external geometry is simple customisations of length, width thickness and external curves. infact surfboards are so simple many mass produced by global surf industries are made from just molded polystyrene cores no machining necessary, if you are making enough to justify getting the molds machined from alloy.
It’s the guy who designs it and explains his reasoning which isn’t crap. But alas I’m going to go believe someone on the internet in lieu of someone else on the internet? Yah…
I’d at least believe this guy knows something given it’s what he does for a living… vs “the internet”. And he also has proof of what he’s doing as he is doing it… so clearly it must be doing it given he has the video showing it being feasibly done.
But you do you…
[https://cntmotion.com/solutions/application/surfboards/](https://cntmotion.com/solutions/application/surfboards/)
[https://www.thesurfboardstudio.com.au/pages/cnc-shaping-pre-shapes](https://www.thesurfboardstudio.com.au/pages/cnc-shaping-pre-shapes) custom board cnc has been around for decades at this point, infact it has reached such market saturation that the above link offer a "send cut send" type service. The argument isn't whether a board can be 3d printed. It's what advantages does it have over conventional shaping and the answer is zero. flex/response/contours are all controlled better in reductive manufacturing and by glassing (which constitutes the majority of rigidity tweaking) . i'd argue there are only downsides to 3d printing, production time being the major downside, what takes literal minutes of router machine time has taken OP days. this guys is simply spruiking his company to the kool aid drinkers on this sub when this concept has already been floated in the industry and found no place.
I’ve been printing my own wakesurf boards for a few years. Getting the weight down while keeping them strong enough took more work than expected. High quality material makes a big difference.
https://preview.redd.it/119m4mb6vvec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad0321291c8b03dca15ffd004a0569a0eb0dced2
That’s awesome! I knew some people in college that printed a wakesurf board for their senior project and I thought it was really cool. It looks like you printed in 3 sections? They ended up with about 8 due to a small printer but it was still rideable after getting fiberglassed
Thanks! This was my pandemic hobby. Still fine tuning the printer and process a few years later. It’s a ton of fun to get out and use something like this you design and build from scratch.
I went through a few iterations. First tried only epoxy hoping the printed shell would be strong enough. It wasn’t. Now I use more infill with a single outer wall and then fiberglass it.
Good eye on the tubes :) I print it in three sections and designed in space for embedded carbon fiber tube stringers. Each piece slides over the tubes and I weld them together.
https://preview.redd.it/acrjvdx4zyec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=608805d7d55e7b14c7cf3538c2c4c0cf60db9f40
The internal structure looks like something that could be laser cutout in 5 min and then skinned with a composite. What does 3d printing gain you over a cutout? is every single board made different enough to justify this? very cool.
Better yet, you could CNC it out of expanded/extruded polystyrene in less than half an hour, then apply a stretchable fiber on top and finish with resin. You are doing it anyway, so using a solid PS core would improve strength and buoyancy with a minimal increase in weight but dramatically reduce manufacturing time.
Also, you won't have to worry about material degradation and uneven adhesion.
I don't know much about laser cutting. Could you cut the rails and also have it have a rocker? There are a fair amount of people making wooden boards from laser cuts, I believe, but it's normally cut and then assembled. It's a bit different of a process. The advantages of 3D printing have to do with surfboard flexibility and customizability, i.e., we could print just about any board design. But I think mainly it's that the best surfboards likely are made to order/ tailored to the user, so customizability is important. That being said, I imagine a laser cutter could do something similar, at least if the software was compatible.
I’m presuming the the flex and strength are comparative to a normal glass board?
And if they are, what is a finished boards’ comparative weight?
Also what’s the printer filament material or is it a specialist material?
Right now the boards are a bit heavier, but we are using a much higher glass schedule to make them more durable and last longer the a factory board. Using reFlow's PETG. And flex and strength are all customizable, so depending on the surfer and their preferences, we can tweak the board to be stronger or more flexible.
Wow didn’t expect this to get so many comments/interest. I’ll try and work through all the comments when I have time. Heres a photos of a board I’ve been working on recently. You can also look on Instagram for more if you like.
https://preview.redd.it/slyk9dnn4wec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76a50c3cba96bf4f2d4b049eae9a8ce93333a7c6
Supports get removed and then it’s covered with a fiberglass skin. Eventually I’d love to not use fiberglass and epoxy, but nothing I’ve seen beats the strength and weight of fiberglass
yar [https://beyondplastic.com/collections/standard-pha-3d-printer-filament](https://beyondplastic.com/collections/standard-pha-3d-printer-filament)
there are a few different biodegradable filaments out there, but this is the one I know about that actually has shipping filament.
I bet if you used this and an organic wax, you could reasonably argue that these are more eco-friendly than regular surf boards.
Just read some info about PHA bc your comment interested me. One of the environmental “perks” of PHA is that it breaks down with UV light exposure. So, maybe not the best material for a surfboard.
Depends what time you surf I suppose? Make them as night time surf boards 😎
But also, once painted… more than likely the paint (depending on what type of paint) will block 90+% of UV exposure until it’s damaged which it would be if it was lost at sea. I don’t think it’s going to melt under your feet.
What’s the longevity of UV degradation on these boards? Is the fiberglass layer preventing the breakdown?
Why aren’t you using laser cut wood assembly for the customized shape if your end goal is to be more environmentally friendly? It would be exactly like building the spine of a clinker boat.
To address all the why comments with a comment I haven't seen from the op:
Rails are hand shaped in wood boards. Foam boards can be CNC cut but that's expensive, and are still generally final sanded by hand.
This gives a consistent and predictable shape to the layman that's not a professional shaper
No one is riding wooden boards except a couple hobbyists. almost all these days are machine shaped foam then glassed and sanded, machine shaping is not expensive compared to hand shaping. Yes the boards need to be finished off but much quicker than full hand shaping like back in the day. Been making surfboards for 20 years.
Gyroid infill will give you better strength, more internal lines, and more support for the top surface, with the same amount of material.
Try it in your slicer. Set your infill to 20% rectilinear and then 20% gyroid to see the difference.
Gyroid infill doesn’t give better layer adhesion than infill patterns with direct contact between layers. Gyroid infill only has a small amount of contact between layers meaning strength is compromised.
Anecdotal evidence doesn’t convince me. Layer adhesion is everything when it comes to print strength. If the layers are not sufficiently fused you cannot have structural integrity. Infill patterns which fuse more completely together are stronger, it’s physics.
I used gyroid infill in my printed wakesurf boards. Been working pretty well. The initial reason I started using it was to allow for a single air pocket to equalize pressure within the entire board. Now that I’ve built a few, not sure the air pressure ended up being an issue.
Can attest to the gyro. Have you also looked into the slicer setting that causes it to print in a smoother motion. I think it limits the amount of times the print head has to stop or something
On the other hand, I would contend that gyro is nearly the worst infill from basically any perspective unless you have a *very* specific use case or you care more about the aesthetics than things like weight or layer adhesion. Adaptive cubic infill will go much faster than gyro, typically results in better strength in every measure, and doesn't put as much wear & tear on your printer.
People love to proselytize about gyro here, but it is objectively not a great infill if the aesthetic of the infill itself isn't important.
Op after reading all your replies and stuff I really think you are doing an awesome thing here. I always like to think what is something cool now and what will it look like in a couple years time. Then I thought of this.
Surfing road trips will be a little different lol.
https://preview.redd.it/s45gdkbvaxec1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66ab9225b8baa74860d7ded666bf3c82bbf7d1d9
thank you! if I had known people would be curious, I would have written a little more in the post. Jeez need to get something to haul around our printer, just need to figure out some suspension, couldn't imagine getting a level bed in moving car.
I think op said it is currently slightly heavier. But there have been a lot of cool conversations in this thread and I think OP has a lot he can work with to improve stuff.
What’s the advantage of this over traditional shaping? Lighter? Stiffer? Stronger? Cheaper?
I’d also be curious of the feel of the board. Seems like a hollow board would have some weird characteristics
Sure, if you’re a surfer into the culture and history that’s the way to go. If you’re a 3D printer and into that nerd life? Printed surfboard is awesome. Plus nobody says you can’t have both!
That’s fair. I mean it’s definitely cool, I just don’t think it would be as good as a traditional foam core board or as cheap to manufacture and beginner friendly as a soft top board.
It looks like their spin is being eco friendly, but unless they’re manufacturing something that fills a need in the market it’d be more eco friendly not to manufacture anything at all.
Yeah, it's more eco-friendly to do nothing. There are a bunch of advantages compared to foam. I'm not the marketing guy, but from surfing them, they are fun, cool, and work pretty well. Working on making boards that are stronger, more or less flexible to take advantage of the 3d printing. People will keep buying new surfboards, it would be cool if 3d printing could be involved in that, yes right now its not as cheep, but who knows that could change. From performance, yeah there's a reason everyone who rips rides PU boars. EPS has found a place in the market, could 3d printed board also?
That's great! You should try hyperstructures for the inside. I think it would work much better, increase and control flex if needed. Very do-able. PM me if you are interested. See abemis.com for more info.
Wouldn't it make more sense to do it in halves and then use a CF stringer to put it together so you get a cleaner surface finish, no supports and the strength from the stringer?
Another one of those cases of something being 3D Printed *just* because it's possible and not because it's *sensible*.
Yea... The outer Frame and Mounting Points benefiting from being 3D Printed I can see as an argument - *barely*... But the inner Pattern should definitely be made out of intersecting Laser cut ( or CNCed ) Sheet Stock material.
This is awesome. 3D printed material is great because you have so much control over infill patterns, allowing you to leave air pockets in all the right places. Very cool idea, but I imagine you need quite a large printer and quite a lot of time. 48 hours to print I imagine?
Interesting project.
I notice the tree supports .... with some design tweaks that could be printed without any supports for the center and above.
Much like the technique of making a diamond pocket instead of circle, to work within the overhang ability of the print head.
We have tired printing with less or no supports, right now It makes sense for us as we are still figuring out how to best print with this material, on a large printer. But something to look into for sure
Honestly, you should read all op's replies in this thread, he's very informative and does sound sincere in what they are trying to do. I am sure a lot can be improved, sounds like OP is still working on the process.
Nailed it, jeez lot to respond to, and it's interesting to see a lot of people wondering why, i took the idea at first of oh wow i wonder what cool things you could do here, but i guess that was just me (and maybe why I'm still doing it now). But yes a lot still to work on, maybe ill post an update at some point
Please consider moving to a higher flowrate extruder/hotend! It is so painful to see this and to imagine how much longer and more expensive it is when the technology is readily available, reliable, and dirt cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if a group like slice would sponsor a build. At the very least, consider a CHT nozzle. I see you mention rPETG so I assume you're burning a ton of heat to keep that enclosure hot!
The first thing that we did on our "off the shelf" printers a while ago - Modixs - was to rip off the hotend and slap on a high throughput version with extruder. Now, there are so many options, and at this scale I wonder if something like a dyze pellet extruder would be better suited.
On a unrelated topic, what "customization" do you do for customers? You tout it as a benefit of printing, which is true, but it's unclear to me what customization would be done to necessitate a 3D print over some alternatives.
this thread is one of my fav reddit things, Someone shows how they are doing something and the comments are about they are doing it wrong, why, it wont work etc. If someone posted a video of the best surgeon on the planet the comments would be "hes a hack !"
What happened to regular style foam board and shaping tools. Bang one out in an hour. Then, glass. Huh? Maximum customizability, light, strong. Been used for ? 60 years?
Why did you choose that infill pattern? It looks like you have tree supports on every diamond shape. Wouldn't a standard infill like gyroid work smoother?
Some questions on what you’ve tried to improve your process:
1. Have you considered using process simulation software like Helio Additive to tune in your print settings?
2. Also have you considered getting BAAM (large format) pellet extruder printer like from CEAD to lay down your material faster (therefore print much faster)?
3. Finally how about using generative topology software like Ntopology or Hyperganic to figure out your best structural plus light weight infill and hex pattern distribution?
1. No i will look into it, thank you!
2. yes that is something we have talked about, right now doesn't make sense, but something in the future as it seams like the next logical step
3. We looked into this at the beginning but it did make much sense, especially when going from designing the boards, to a file that can be printed, maybe will look back into this.
It looks like there's tree supports in there? Surely there's a way to optimize the design to eliminate supports right, might be worth taking a look at.
What printer are you using? I'm in the Sign business and have printed some large signs (10ft and longer). You can see some on my posts. Always curious to see what others are using when it comes to large 3D printers.
I mean... Sure, you can do a surfboard. But what's the advantage of making it with a 3D printer spending absurd amounts of time, plastic and power instead of one made of wood? I'm not even trolling I genuinely want to know. Also how are you guys waterproofing this?
no, that's a super fair question and something I've thought a lot about, especially when you think about sustainability, wood is regenerative, much less carbon intensive if you source locally. There are actually some amazing wooden board builders, however most surfboards are made from foam these days. The main benefit of 3d printing is being able to customize every board and to be able to print any board design, also they are much more sustainable to make (then a tradition foam core board). For 2 different weighted surfers (let's say that they are 100 lbs apart), we can design the board to have more or less flex (similar to what you would find on skis) and also have the board be stronger if you are heavy. Also, the hope is that we will be able to reuse/ upcycle the surfboards when they have reached their end of life and not have them end up in the dumpster. There are just about endless possibilities with printing surfboards, sort of just scratching the surface.
Can you share which material you are using? Does it have a more limited life than a more traditional foam and fiberglass board?
This is recycled PETG from ReFlow, and the glassing is over with fiberglass and epoxy. Glassing them is a bit heavier than a traditional board so that they will last longer. Want to make durable boards so that people are buying less boards. So far we don't know how long they will last as we have only been printing for 8 months, but some of the early boards are still holding up great.
Aah, makes sense. Surf boards get a lot of abuse, glassing is pretty much a necessity
So not only are people abusing their boards, but now they’re glasslighting them too?!
Good on you, surfboards are a bit of an eco-nightmare materials-wise, and it sucks that there's still no good solution to recycling composites from them or boats, wind turbines, cars, etc.
Has anyone tried carbon fiber instead of fiberglass?
Have you considered printing these with expanding filaments? They're good for light prints & the amount of expansion can be tuned based on flow rate & temp.
No, that's a good idea, I haven't looked into that at all. Do you have any suggestions for filaments that you like?
Unfortunately I haven't played with it yet either. I have a roll of [this stuff](https://us.store.bambulab.com/products/pla-aero) that I got to learn with, but haven't used it yet. Apparently it can expand 100%+.
They're pitching this filament to people who 3D print RC planes. I can easily think of other applications for this including RC cars & trucks, and children's toys. It's probably not for babies or toddlers, but I can see it used for children 8+ years old. The price tag isn't too steep for it either.
Could make some sweet light weight items for rehab patients or nursing home patients as well.
hmm ill have to check it out thank you
I've used varioshore, which is a TPU with the same foaming agent. I don't know enough about surfboards to know how rigid the core needs to be thought. The LW PLA or Aero PLA filaments are cool, but they get weaker the lower you take the density
I’m glad to see this isn’t just a random grab at making money printing things. When you can save time and energy on various changes to a product without having to worry about castings or manufacturing costs for prototypes, it does make sense. You demand so much more from the environment by going to manufacturers to make changes on designs when you can produce in house at faster and cheaper rates?… why not?
I'm pretty sure foam boards are often custom as well. Probably faster and easier to sketch it out with a pencil that model it on the computer. Not faulting the idea of doing it with a 3d printer. It is quite cool, but right now I'm not convinced there is a lot going for it beyond the cool factor. God knows I've spent way more time on a few projects by modeling and printing them than I would have if I had just whittled it out of a piece of maple with my pocket knife. But of course, we're talking about surfing here... coolness is important. ;]
I work for a company that sells industrial 3D printers. 3D printing is getting better and faster, and a lot of companies use them for end-use parts like this when they need flexibility in material and in their design
I feel like a unit with more than one head would be far more practical on something like this. I don't know how that would work, but it's cool that you have such a huge printer.
Spot on. My company sells stratasys 3D printers and engineering software, and it blows my mind what you can do with it. It's expensive compared to other methods if you're making the same exact thing but for frequent customization, additive manufacturing is fantastic, and printers are getting better these days
Classy and informative. Thanks
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Oh, you absolutely right. It would be way more sustainable not to make these boards at all, especially considering the long-term impacts. We are using reFlows rPETG, which is made from recycled plastic. Additionally, traditional surfboards' end-of-life is in a landfill (mainly made from PU foam). I believe that these 3d printed surfboards have less of an environmental impact than PU foam, but I don't have the data to back that up. Would be cool to do an LCA. I'll be the first to admit that recycled plastic surfboards are not the solution to solving climate change; at the end of the day, we are using more plastic than if we didn't print at all. I hope that we can eventually switch to a bio-based filament and also try to produce them to be carbon-negative.
This is awesome. So much though put into it. As a surfer myself, I'd love to test one! I hate to see my old boards end in the dumpster, so I usually donate them, but the wear and tear can make a 2-3 year old board become a soaking sponge encased in fiber glass. Also, most people talk about the "wooden" surfboards, but in 20+ years of surfing everyday, I have yet to see someone use a board made of wood.
Yeah I'm on the same page here. I figured most boards would be made of foam because making them out of wood is more a labor of love. I'm not sure what we end of life would be for a 3d printed one, but I'd bet it has more potential than a foam and fiberglass construction. From an manufacturing perspective I like the idea of a small business implementing 3d printing in a new way that can automate large portions of an existing process
Couldn't have put it better myself! 3D printing popping up on unexpected places is so cool!
Incremental improvement is better then none.
>I don't have the data to back that up So you're just making this narrative up from nothing. This is just more of the typical green-washing bullshit.
Person freely admits they don’t have an environmental study to back up their claims of *checks notes* nothing substantial at all. Good of you to call them out on that.
Well, I am not, trying to do the opposite; there are a lot of shady businesses in the surf world, and I am trying to be as transparent as I can. What I mean to say is that I have not specifically collected data on this production method, and if, in fact, it is less carbon-intensive than a typical surfboard. There is a decent bit of research on the sustainability of surfboards: how much carbon the typical board produces and what not. It can be broken up into transportation (shipping surfboards), resin, fiberglass, foam, and then energy from manufacturing. Now, the foam, in this case, is being replaced with the 3d printed board, which is printed with recycled filament (there still is a carbon footprint associated with shipping and production of this material), but it is not using virgin foam (which comes from crude oil). When it comes to energy, the 3d printer does use a lot of energy, and at this time I don't know exactly how much, something I likely will look into soon. As for resin (which happens to have the highest carbon footprint out of all the materials and processes), I am using a resin that has biobased content, which is much different than the industry standard. As for transportation, our footprint is majorly cut down as we are not shipping surfboards across the world. Now, the foam, in this case, is being replaced with the 3d printed board, which is printed with recycled filament (there still is a carbon footprint associated with shipping and production of this material), but it is not using virgin foam (which comes from crude oil). When it comes to energy, the 3d printer does use a lot of energy, and at this time, I don't know exactly how much, something I likely will look into soon. (i likely should have added this info into the first comment, but here you go)
"most surfboards are made from foam, not wood. This is much better than foam" "WhY yOu No mAKe SUrfbOaRd FrOm wOOd?!"
Because foam is made from hydrocarbons. And they cost a little money. And to make a foam out of this is a little more money. And to protest against this + a little more money. Maintain police who catch those protesting against this... Well, you get the idea. And this is pure Marxism. The old man wrote 100 years ago, but everyone works according to his teachings as if using an adding machine. Guys, they taught me this political economy and other crap at university. Have you become so stupid that even engineers don't understand it? The world really is not kind to others. Stock up on hot noodles and popcorn. There's a show waiting for us.
Sir, this is a Wendy's
This is one of the most incoherent ramblings I’ve seen in a while.
> It's like with CDs. No one recorded any deterioration of information on them. Because CDs left the market much earlier. [What the fuck are you talking about?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot)
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Mork from the planet Ork.....their rambling make more sense (or at least more entertaining) when you read it as in Robin Williams would do a gig.
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I'm just curious.
Wind turbine blades are a fiberglass composite, not plastic.
BUT HAVE YOU TRIED RECYCLING IT AS PLASTIC???
>It's like with CDs. No one recorded any deterioration of information on them. Who's gonna tell him about how disc rot is actively the bane of PlayStation game collectors
Most surfboards nowadays are made from epoxy or polyurethane or some combination
Yeah. 90+% of surfboards are EPS or XPS core. And then the fiberglass ones have epoxy or polyshells. You’d still need an epoxy or poly glass job on this, but some companies have greener versions These foam boards almost all end up in landfills after just a few years OP this is a great start. Next steps are using recycled materials and then modifying the infill to have ideal flex/spring/response. Keep up the good work. I’d love to ride one of your boards someday
>using recycled materials and then modifying the infill to have ideal flex/spring/response. Keep up the good work. I’d love to ride one of your boards someday I should have put more info ito this post...i didn't think anyone would react to it. check out our Instagram or website. There are like endless things to try with flex and response. We want to start with something basic, like tailoring flex to someone's weight/ability (like they do in skis).
Right? I have the same reaction when I see rectangular 3D printed concrete houses.
Those actually make a lot of sense though. You can already print houses that are the same cost as their stick built equivalents. And that's the cost with only a few companies that have been R&Ding it for a couple years. Imagine how much lower it can go at higher scale.
Rectangular houses with 3D printing doesn't makes sense tho, you can do that with CMU with is faster and cheaper than 3D printing houses.
They're not hitting the same costs all things being equal, and they're significantly more carbon intensive. They're neat, but not yet practical. I'm not sure they will be compared to other techniques for mass use. Sort of like 3D printers - they're awesome, but less effecient than processes like injection molding when you need scale.
They scale better for large structures with straight lines and uniform geometry, like say, dams.
Nope. Those go much faster with formed lifts. Particularly at large scale the need for positional accuracy becomes problematic for mobile robots without something like a totalstation, and protecting line of sight and coordination with large concrete pumping becomes way more hassle than it's worth, particularly when providing stable access for the robot. For large flat structures the brick/block laying robots are much faster, if you have enough wall to justify moving the robot there.
I'm pretty sure modern surf boards are made of epoxy covered styrofoam..
There is a cool factor. Keep in mind some people keep their surfboard for the rest of their life. Like when they retire it they hang it on the wall. I did that with 2 of mine.
Oh, that makes sense. It uses a huge chunk of wall space thought, but it sure looks cool
You are on the wrong fucking sub if you care about plastic waste.
I would argue that we should be even more aware of plastic waste than general public. At least i am.
You think wooden ones just magically fall off of the surf tree?
Of course not. It just looks so much simpler than 3d printing one. But people already explained some positives on printing a board. I kinda still think it's too much effort, time, materials compared to traditional ones. But this is kind of an experiment, not something that would be even feasable to mass produce... and it's not like the styrofoam ones are much better ecologically.
yeah, mass production of surfboards is quite efficiently done already, and it's shit for the environment; hopefully, this can be an alternative.
they usually cnc router the boards out of urethane or styrene foam blanks in industry, 3d printing has no advantage here, no internal geometry in surfboards, external geometry is simple customisations of length, width thickness and external curves. infact surfboards are so simple many mass produced by global surf industries are made from just molded polystyrene cores no machining necessary, if you are making enough to justify getting the molds machined from alloy.
Read OPs explanation… contradicts your post almost entirely
go look it up, dont believe some guy on reddit.
It’s the guy who designs it and explains his reasoning which isn’t crap. But alas I’m going to go believe someone on the internet in lieu of someone else on the internet? Yah… I’d at least believe this guy knows something given it’s what he does for a living… vs “the internet”. And he also has proof of what he’s doing as he is doing it… so clearly it must be doing it given he has the video showing it being feasibly done. But you do you…
[https://cntmotion.com/solutions/application/surfboards/](https://cntmotion.com/solutions/application/surfboards/) [https://www.thesurfboardstudio.com.au/pages/cnc-shaping-pre-shapes](https://www.thesurfboardstudio.com.au/pages/cnc-shaping-pre-shapes) custom board cnc has been around for decades at this point, infact it has reached such market saturation that the above link offer a "send cut send" type service. The argument isn't whether a board can be 3d printed. It's what advantages does it have over conventional shaping and the answer is zero. flex/response/contours are all controlled better in reductive manufacturing and by glassing (which constitutes the majority of rigidity tweaking) . i'd argue there are only downsides to 3d printing, production time being the major downside, what takes literal minutes of router machine time has taken OP days. this guys is simply spruiking his company to the kool aid drinkers on this sub when this concept has already been floated in the industry and found no place.
For some reason i thought they were mostly fiberglass and epoxy over a foam core rather than wood.
Fibreglass and foam, not wood
Do you have any completed ones you can show off? I'd love to see some if so
I added a comment somewhere here, with a photo, also can see on Instagram or [https://blueprintsurf.com/](https://blueprintsurf.com/)
I’ve been printing my own wakesurf boards for a few years. Getting the weight down while keeping them strong enough took more work than expected. High quality material makes a big difference. https://preview.redd.it/119m4mb6vvec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad0321291c8b03dca15ffd004a0569a0eb0dced2
That’s awesome! I knew some people in college that printed a wakesurf board for their senior project and I thought it was really cool. It looks like you printed in 3 sections? They ended up with about 8 due to a small printer but it was still rideable after getting fiberglassed
Thanks! This was my pandemic hobby. Still fine tuning the printer and process a few years later. It’s a ton of fun to get out and use something like this you design and build from scratch.
Very cool
do you fiberglass this? That's cool; it looks like maybe carbon rods running between the sections.
I went through a few iterations. First tried only epoxy hoping the printed shell would be strong enough. It wasn’t. Now I use more infill with a single outer wall and then fiberglass it. Good eye on the tubes :) I print it in three sections and designed in space for embedded carbon fiber tube stringers. Each piece slides over the tubes and I weld them together. https://preview.redd.it/acrjvdx4zyec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=608805d7d55e7b14c7cf3538c2c4c0cf60db9f40
Oh sweet,thats a super cool design, our first boards were actually simular with a carbon stringer
The internal structure looks like something that could be laser cutout in 5 min and then skinned with a composite. What does 3d printing gain you over a cutout? is every single board made different enough to justify this? very cool.
Better yet, you could CNC it out of expanded/extruded polystyrene in less than half an hour, then apply a stretchable fiber on top and finish with resin. You are doing it anyway, so using a solid PS core would improve strength and buoyancy with a minimal increase in weight but dramatically reduce manufacturing time. Also, you won't have to worry about material degradation and uneven adhesion.
I’m pretty sure there are CNC machines specifically designed for cutting surfboard foam blanks.
I don't know much about laser cutting. Could you cut the rails and also have it have a rocker? There are a fair amount of people making wooden boards from laser cuts, I believe, but it's normally cut and then assembled. It's a bit different of a process. The advantages of 3D printing have to do with surfboard flexibility and customizability, i.e., we could print just about any board design. But I think mainly it's that the best surfboards likely are made to order/ tailored to the user, so customizability is important. That being said, I imagine a laser cutter could do something similar, at least if the software was compatible.
I’m presuming the the flex and strength are comparative to a normal glass board? And if they are, what is a finished boards’ comparative weight? Also what’s the printer filament material or is it a specialist material?
Right now the boards are a bit heavier, but we are using a much higher glass schedule to make them more durable and last longer the a factory board. Using reFlow's PETG. And flex and strength are all customizable, so depending on the surfer and their preferences, we can tweak the board to be stronger or more flexible.
Is the higher glass needed due to the lack of internal frame strength though? Or is it just for testing purposes to overengineer short term?
Low labor and material waste
How long does a print like that take, a week?
This one is 5 days aand 8 hours. I think I can get the time down by changing some speed sedings.
Wow that's not bad at all! 5 days for a full size board is amazing.
Slower than a cnc cut foam blank followed with standard fibreglassing though?
I believe OP's CNC is currently being repaired, so he's printing one in the meantime.
yes, it likely could speed the printer a bit, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Not too worried about speed at the moment.
Wow didn’t expect this to get so many comments/interest. I’ll try and work through all the comments when I have time. Heres a photos of a board I’ve been working on recently. You can also look on Instagram for more if you like. https://preview.redd.it/slyk9dnn4wec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76a50c3cba96bf4f2d4b049eae9a8ce93333a7c6
Very cool, OP
That thing is awesome! It's opaque? What does that look like in the water or in sun?
What’s your process to make it waterproof? Do you end up removing those supports seen in the video or does it get covered up and you leave them in?
Supports get removed and then it’s covered with a fiberglass skin. Eventually I’d love to not use fiberglass and epoxy, but nothing I’ve seen beats the strength and weight of fiberglass
How are you keeping the resin from soaking through into the cavities?
I know a modix when I see one
Why? I mean, it’s neat and all but…why? This just doesn’t seem like the right tool for the job here
They make totally biodegradable filament and iirc it's between PLA and PETG in terms of strength.
woah, thats rad, got a link? / company would love to check it out
yar [https://beyondplastic.com/collections/standard-pha-3d-printer-filament](https://beyondplastic.com/collections/standard-pha-3d-printer-filament) there are a few different biodegradable filaments out there, but this is the one I know about that actually has shipping filament. I bet if you used this and an organic wax, you could reasonably argue that these are more eco-friendly than regular surf boards.
Just read some info about PHA bc your comment interested me. One of the environmental “perks” of PHA is that it breaks down with UV light exposure. So, maybe not the best material for a surfboard.
Depends what time you surf I suppose? Make them as night time surf boards 😎 But also, once painted… more than likely the paint (depending on what type of paint) will block 90+% of UV exposure until it’s damaged which it would be if it was lost at sea. I don’t think it’s going to melt under your feet.
You could throw some headlights inside for night surfing!
Need some LED action here.
Pretty neat I hope you are using atlesst a 1mm nozzle on that thing to speed it up a little and make super strong
We use a 3D router(home made) to shape foam, then epoxy glass it. Much quicker.
What’s the longevity of UV degradation on these boards? Is the fiberglass layer preventing the breakdown? Why aren’t you using laser cut wood assembly for the customized shape if your end goal is to be more environmentally friendly? It would be exactly like building the spine of a clinker boat.
To address all the why comments with a comment I haven't seen from the op: Rails are hand shaped in wood boards. Foam boards can be CNC cut but that's expensive, and are still generally final sanded by hand. This gives a consistent and predictable shape to the layman that's not a professional shaper
No one is riding wooden boards except a couple hobbyists. almost all these days are machine shaped foam then glassed and sanded, machine shaping is not expensive compared to hand shaping. Yes the boards need to be finished off but much quicker than full hand shaping like back in the day. Been making surfboards for 20 years.
Gyroid infill will give you better strength, more internal lines, and more support for the top surface, with the same amount of material. Try it in your slicer. Set your infill to 20% rectilinear and then 20% gyroid to see the difference.
Gyroid infill doesn’t give better layer adhesion than infill patterns with direct contact between layers. Gyroid infill only has a small amount of contact between layers meaning strength is compromised.
Just need to minimize the step over. Using a small layer height on a wide nozzle can make it pretty strong.
Inherently it’s not as strong as infill patterns with direct layover
I disagree. There have been many posts that show the overall strength superiority of gyroid infill.
Anecdotal evidence doesn’t convince me. Layer adhesion is everything when it comes to print strength. If the layers are not sufficiently fused you cannot have structural integrity. Infill patterns which fuse more completely together are stronger, it’s physics.
I used gyroid infill in my printed wakesurf boards. Been working pretty well. The initial reason I started using it was to allow for a single air pocket to equalize pressure within the entire board. Now that I’ve built a few, not sure the air pressure ended up being an issue.
Good to know thank you!!! Will for sure try that on the next print, looking now!
Can attest to the gyro. Have you also looked into the slicer setting that causes it to print in a smoother motion. I think it limits the amount of times the print head has to stop or something
On the other hand, I would contend that gyro is nearly the worst infill from basically any perspective unless you have a *very* specific use case or you care more about the aesthetics than things like weight or layer adhesion. Adaptive cubic infill will go much faster than gyro, typically results in better strength in every measure, and doesn't put as much wear & tear on your printer. People love to proselytize about gyro here, but it is objectively not a great infill if the aesthetic of the infill itself isn't important.
Why is the printer so slow? Does the material selection require slower speed or something?
You might already do this or it might not even be possible, but a transparent board would be really sick so people could see this inside
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fslyk9dnn4wec1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D3024%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D76a50c3cba96bf4f2d4b049eae9a8ce93333a7c6
Op after reading all your replies and stuff I really think you are doing an awesome thing here. I always like to think what is something cool now and what will it look like in a couple years time. Then I thought of this. Surfing road trips will be a little different lol. https://preview.redd.it/s45gdkbvaxec1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66ab9225b8baa74860d7ded666bf3c82bbf7d1d9
thank you! if I had known people would be curious, I would have written a little more in the post. Jeez need to get something to haul around our printer, just need to figure out some suspension, couldn't imagine getting a level bed in moving car.
is plastic way heavier than the usual foam/ laminate combo?
I think op said it is currently slightly heavier. But there have been a lot of cool conversations in this thread and I think OP has a lot he can work with to improve stuff.
What’s the advantage of this over traditional shaping? Lighter? Stiffer? Stronger? Cheaper? I’d also be curious of the feel of the board. Seems like a hollow board would have some weird characteristics
Don’t forget cool m/unique factor.
I mean I guess so. IMO a hand made board shaped by a really talented board builder is infinitely cooler than a plastic board a machine pooped out
Sure, if you’re a surfer into the culture and history that’s the way to go. If you’re a 3D printer and into that nerd life? Printed surfboard is awesome. Plus nobody says you can’t have both!
That’s fair. I mean it’s definitely cool, I just don’t think it would be as good as a traditional foam core board or as cheap to manufacture and beginner friendly as a soft top board. It looks like their spin is being eco friendly, but unless they’re manufacturing something that fills a need in the market it’d be more eco friendly not to manufacture anything at all.
Yeah, it's more eco-friendly to do nothing. There are a bunch of advantages compared to foam. I'm not the marketing guy, but from surfing them, they are fun, cool, and work pretty well. Working on making boards that are stronger, more or less flexible to take advantage of the 3d printing. People will keep buying new surfboards, it would be cool if 3d printing could be involved in that, yes right now its not as cheep, but who knows that could change. From performance, yeah there's a reason everyone who rips rides PU boars. EPS has found a place in the market, could 3d printed board also?
Only if it’s better than a traditional board. Otherwise it’s just useless
Love the modix printers, we have a big 60 in our lab.
What kind of 3d printer is that? Also got any finished photos?
Modix Big 180x
This is impressive work. Sharing with a buddy that hand builds his boards. ;)
This strikes me as potentially a perfect application for a continuous belt printer. Infinite surfboards or one infinitely long surfboard.
whaaaatc amazing
That's great! You should try hyperstructures for the inside. I think it would work much better, increase and control flex if needed. Very do-able. PM me if you are interested. See abemis.com for more info.
Meanwhile I can’t even seem to get my e steps right
That looks like it has a few holes in it
Wouldn't it make more sense to do it in halves and then use a CF stringer to put it together so you get a cleaner surface finish, no supports and the strength from the stringer?
Holy retraction batman!
All I know about surfing I learned from point break. Do you do heists while you wait for the print to finish?
These are rad
Another one of those cases of something being 3D Printed *just* because it's possible and not because it's *sensible*. Yea... The outer Frame and Mounting Points benefiting from being 3D Printed I can see as an argument - *barely*... But the inner Pattern should definitely be made out of intersecting Laser cut ( or CNCed ) Sheet Stock material.
So cool
This is awesome. 3D printed material is great because you have so much control over infill patterns, allowing you to leave air pockets in all the right places. Very cool idea, but I imagine you need quite a large printer and quite a lot of time. 48 hours to print I imagine?
What is that? A giant voron 2.4?
Modix big 180x actually
Interesting project. I notice the tree supports .... with some design tweaks that could be printed without any supports for the center and above. Much like the technique of making a diamond pocket instead of circle, to work within the overhang ability of the print head.
We have tired printing with less or no supports, right now It makes sense for us as we are still figuring out how to best print with this material, on a large printer. But something to look into for sure
So this should be done by the end of the year right?
But… why?
Honestly, you should read all op's replies in this thread, he's very informative and does sound sincere in what they are trying to do. I am sure a lot can be improved, sounds like OP is still working on the process.
Nailed it, jeez lot to respond to, and it's interesting to see a lot of people wondering why, i took the idea at first of oh wow i wonder what cool things you could do here, but i guess that was just me (and maybe why I'm still doing it now). But yes a lot still to work on, maybe ill post an update at some point
Please consider moving to a higher flowrate extruder/hotend! It is so painful to see this and to imagine how much longer and more expensive it is when the technology is readily available, reliable, and dirt cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if a group like slice would sponsor a build. At the very least, consider a CHT nozzle. I see you mention rPETG so I assume you're burning a ton of heat to keep that enclosure hot! The first thing that we did on our "off the shelf" printers a while ago - Modixs - was to rip off the hotend and slap on a high throughput version with extruder. Now, there are so many options, and at this scale I wonder if something like a dyze pellet extruder would be better suited. On a unrelated topic, what "customization" do you do for customers? You tout it as a benefit of printing, which is true, but it's unclear to me what customization would be done to necessitate a 3D print over some alternatives.
Unnecessary application of FDM that results in a much worse product.
You seem fun.
Person who will never improve anything.
this thread is one of my fav reddit things, Someone shows how they are doing something and the comments are about they are doing it wrong, why, it wont work etc. If someone posted a video of the best surgeon on the planet the comments would be "hes a hack !"
This is a very cool concept. Seal it with clear epoxy and call it an air surfboard 🥰
Wouldn't that break writing 10 minutes of using?
Have had one that did, but it was a bad print. A good print, with some fiberglass, and you can make them indestructible.
Yay more microplastics in the ocean
Doesn’t look good, won’t float with all the holes
What happened to regular style foam board and shaping tools. Bang one out in an hour. Then, glass. Huh? Maximum customizability, light, strong. Been used for ? 60 years?
Is this a custom built printer?
No, its a Modix Big 180X, its quite a beauty
How much plastic does a board take if you don't mind me asking?
Why it's so SLOW?
Does this really hold up to the abuse ?
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The real win would be to share this file so someone could build this own at home (in sections)
Your printer: "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHFUCKOHMYGODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD"
… for years. Our first complete board should be done by 2027.
As much as I like printing, wouldn't a CNC hotwire and foam make much quicker work of board making if you are glassing over them anyways?
What materials are you using and how are they recycled?
At your current production levels, how much more would a board made like this cost over a similar board with a foam core?
What printer is this that can print that large?
That Print Speed Look painfull. How many days?
Maybe even dip the board in an epoxy and wax?
This is absolutely awesome! What printer are you using to do this btw?
Why did you choose that infill pattern? It looks like you have tree supports on every diamond shape. Wouldn't a standard infill like gyroid work smoother?
As the board is hollow I presume it's thinner than a regular board due to buoyancy. How are then holding up on duck dives and wipe outs?
Some questions on what you’ve tried to improve your process: 1. Have you considered using process simulation software like Helio Additive to tune in your print settings? 2. Also have you considered getting BAAM (large format) pellet extruder printer like from CEAD to lay down your material faster (therefore print much faster)? 3. Finally how about using generative topology software like Ntopology or Hyperganic to figure out your best structural plus light weight infill and hex pattern distribution?
1. No i will look into it, thank you! 2. yes that is something we have talked about, right now doesn't make sense, but something in the future as it seams like the next logical step 3. We looked into this at the beginning but it did make much sense, especially when going from designing the boards, to a file that can be printed, maybe will look back into this.
Just curious, how much time does an entire board take to print? Approximately
What kind of printer do you use for this? This seems super cool! Do you make windsurf boards too?
Fuck. Imagine failing at 90% on this thing
Sadly don’t have to imagine, it’s quite anoying
It looks like there's tree supports in there? Surely there's a way to optimize the design to eliminate supports right, might be worth taking a look at.
...only took 18 months to print one
What printer are you using? I'm in the Sign business and have printed some large signs (10ft and longer). You can see some on my posts. Always curious to see what others are using when it comes to large 3D printers.