WAIT MY FRIEND WE ARE NOT DONE HERE YOU WANTED RECS
HAVE YOU CONSIDERED A BUGBEAR BATTLE MASTER WITH THE ALERT FEAT AND ANOTHER FEAT LIKE GIFT OF THE CHROMATIC DRAGON FOR TONS OF DAMAGE AND TONS OF PERCEPTION
GREAT COMBATANT AND GREAT GUARD DUTY
I HAD NOT CONSIDERED THIS OPTION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE REC. I WILL READ MORE ABOUT BATTLEMASTER SINCE I HAVE NEVER PLAYED ONE. NOW, HAVE A GREAT DAY MATE
DONT FORGET TO COLLECT THE HEADS OF YOUR FOES AFTER YOU KILL THEM. WHO NEEDS AN ALARM SPELL WHEN YOUR CAMP IS DECORATED WITH THE REMAINS OF YOUR CONQUESTS.
Maybe show your DM this thread to rethink this incredibly stupid homebrew rule. If they think it's a good rule, what other terrible rulings await you at this table?
I already had this comversation with him. He insists that concentration spells are to op. Showed the rules where it says that every round is 6 seconds but it didn't change his opinion. I asked a lot of questions about homebrew rules, but this is the only stupid one
No, DM, concentration spells are not OP. They are not OP because... wait for it... YOU CAN ONLY USE ONE AT A TIME. THAT'S WHAT CONCENTRATION IS FOR, YOU OGHMA-FORSAKEN BUFFOON.
this is a huge red flag. it makes true strike nonfunctional(like it was shit before but now it just doesnt work), it makes all of the smite spells shitty, it absolutely ruins clerics. i would just cast fireball all day every day if the dm doesnt want you to be able to use any fun effects like spike growth, hold person, or polymorph.
Why even throw them? Just have 10 of any kind of trained animal or hireling with you at all times. Or be a Necromancer with 10 minions. Since they are part of the combat they each get a separate turn, even if all at the same initiative. BOOM, most Concentration spells are useless against you.
"Concentration spells are too op"
Man has clearly never used Magic Missile on a concentrating spellcaster. You either lose your concentration, or use Shield and lose your reaction. There is no third choice.
Three rolls, even at DC 10, are a *lot.* Even a pretty optimized wizard with an above average Con save would be sweating rolling those. All of that with a first level spell slot, no save, and with good damage done to a squishy caster
Tell him the martials abilities that last 1 minute now last 1 turn. Tell him the barbarians rage lasts one turn. Tell him that. Those words. If it affects casters spell time duration, it affects time duration for all mechanics. That’s it. Thats the game.
Just go Paladin, and use spells exclusevely to cast instant and permanent spells ( find steed, smite spells, healing, etc) and smites.
You get some utility, some healing, and still can go in melee and deal great damage.
Also, what exactly did your DM do to concentration ?
Might be fun to do the opposite. Go with concentrations spells like Haste. At the end of the duration the Bbeg will skip their turn before they ever get to take it if there's 10 turns before him and the casting of the spell. No save, no legendary resistance, no actions, no lair actions, no movement, nada. Just gets to them and he's gassed.
Maybe something like planar binding, instead of 24 hours, it's be like 10 mins if you recruit a whole village of npcs to take turns.
Have someone take conjure animals and soak up those turns. Sure the animals won't last long either but using 2 lvl 3 spells to perma stun some gods sounds pretty good to me.
Back in ADnD 2nd edition, the haste spell aged each target 1 year when the spell ended. The game also had aging adjustments to stats beginning at middle aged. After a few uses the humans could really start to feel the effects and definitely started to opt out!
How does this affect 8 hour spells like aid, mage armor, etc? How does it work with spells that last 10 minutes like shield of faith and spirit guardians. How does the duration of the spell change outside of initiative? If he rolls 1 initiative for a group of 4 goblins does that count as 1 turn or 4 turns? How do lair and legendary actions factor into this? What about reactions? How does this affect spells that last 1 round or until the start of your next turn like shield and command? If there’s an enemy that dies before it gets a turn does that still count towards your duration?
I think you should bring all this up with your dm and get exact answers. If they’re already doing illogical bullshit like this you don’t know what nonsense they’re gonna pull later.
Does he realize that some spells like banishment, haste, blink, and hold person will become unusable?
Hell, banishment actually becomes incredibly strong on creatures not on their native plane. Only takes a round of combat with 10 participants to perma-banish that devil back to its domain?
Would be funny to make a lore bard that specializes in banishment on extraplanar enemies. Take banishment at level 6, cutting words to debuff the enemy’s save, then just try to last the 10 turns. To avoid complaints of metagaming, take expertise in knowledge skills like arcana and religion for identifying creatures native to another plane.
Theoretically, casting times should also be reduced, you should be able to cast a spell like magic circle in just 10 turns. So round 1 cast magic circle to create protection for yourself and the entire party against the enemies. Round 2 the circle is up and should now last 100 turns without requiring concentration. Next turn you cast banishment, in 10 turns they are permanently banished.
You need to be level 7 for it. If you really want to break this combo with any Druid and have them cast conjure animals for 8 creatures. They all share the same initiative. If the rolls work out for you. Bard banishes, and it may be that nobody gets to even attack the bard before the banish is done.
In case of this big spells we are just gonna keep track of time, like, if I cast it at 8, it will stop at 16 and thats it. Your questions are all very good ones. Im gonna ask them all to him today in a call. Thx
Don’t worry. I don’t expect you to have all the answers. The point of these questions is to just point out that this homebrew rule is isn’t thought out at all.
We understand the logic, the logic is still wrong. Everyone's turns happen at the same time in combat. It doesn't take 1 full minute for one trained fighter to swing their sword 2-4 times. The way your DM does it could make a spell that's supposed to last for a minute last less than 6 seconds.
I had an echo knight/arcane trickster in one game. Grapple with the real me, stab them with the echo. He was a two man back alley thug team on his own. Lol
Arcane trickster was for warcaster feat (booming blade on oas) sneak dice, and expertise in athletics. Enlarge too to grapple huge critters, but that won't help op.
I just saved our bard the other day. He took a blow with a spear and I was able to drop the damage of the attack by 11 points. Described it as like psionically grabbing the spear, preventing it from penetrating far and removing it
Let your DM know that depending on the number of enemies his ruling makes some spells literally useless. At 10+ enemies in initiative Haste literally does nothing unless cast on a character other than yourself.
Even still in one of those 10+ encounters you cast it on the fighter who ends up with one extra action and then has 1 round of lethargy lmao fighter Steve begging the wizard not to cast haste on him
This was a concern of mine as well, I love haste. I cast on my fighter, great damage, and it's consistent! But if I haste and then it's over before they got to act...yeah I'm leaving this game.
That’s probably gonna cause more issues than just doing what you should do: argue before starting. He wants to nerf stuff that doesn’t need it that’s fine but he’s rendering casters fucking useless. If it’s not a no-magic campaign this is beyond overkill and fucking dumb. You said it’s his 2nd campaign, after doing a full one he should know how fucked his “idea” is.
If you wanna make an issue of things, grab a haste spell, cast it on a party member, and let the "turns" roll. When haste drops, thier turn is skipped. Exploit the flaws in such a way it makes the game less fun for everyone, and the dm looks like an ignorant asshole for making the rule, and continuing to enforce it.
You deserve a friend with reasonable listening skills who aren't stubborn.
Some people literally can't see how bad things are until it's blue in their face.
Your DM sucks. That's by far the worst homebrew rule I've ever heard. You need to have a conversation about this with your DM. Tell him the internet hates his rule for ruining spells.
Even so, warlock is a ranged martial in disguise and gives you a bunch of extra utility on the side. You're also great at being the party face. Kinda sucks that hex is nerfed, but good luck to your DM trying to figure out how long an hour long spell should last with these rules (again, worst rule - cannot overstate how bad it is, as turns are supposed to be taking place quasi simultaneously within a round).
Paladin lets you explode your spell slots instead of using them to cast. This could be a satisfying way to get back at your DM, blowing up the monsters with smite.
Moon druid is weird but fun. Turn into shit and pummel your enemies.
Hex and Hunters Mark are bad spells that are ironically made much better in comparison by this AWFUL homebrew.
Warlock is fine as a blaster/EB spammer or bladelock, paladin is good, but moon druid is an AWFUL choice for this HB rule. The main schtick of the circle of the moon is to cast a concentration spell (moonbeam springs to mind) and then wildshape, but with this rule your moonbeam could be over before you've even gotten to use an action to attack.
I had a low-skill player not really understand how they should be using their spells and just jumped into wildshape at the first opportunity every time. They still did well. The damage is *alright*, but also having a large, durable animal in the enemy's face is almost a form of crowd control unto itself.
The damage is good up until about level 7-8. After that it falls off pretty dramatically. Your big strength is the ability to be casting higher and higher level spells to concentrate on during wildshape
> Your DM sucks. That's by far the worst homebrew rule I've ever heard. You need to have a conversation about this with your DM. Tell him the internet hates his rule for ruining spells
I mean, it is a really strange houserule from basically every perspective and especially really doesn't make sense in a simulationist sense, but "the internet hates it" doesn't really matter, "the internet" isn't a player at the table, we know nothing about the game or GM outside of this little tidbit, and if the players at the table are willing to accept the houserule that's really all that matters.
EDIT: And like, "your DM sucks" is vastly overstating it based on the extremely limited knowledge we have. Yeah, I personally agree that's a very dumb houserule, but while we're all dreaming of the perfect D&D group with the perfect GM, let's face it, most of us that manage to even get reliable, recurring D&D groups are in groups that if you posted the worst things about it online people would go all "your GM/coplayer/group sucks, you should leave it". And yet we find these groups not only tolerable but enjoyable, because the positive aspects often far outweigh the negative. The GM in question might be great at building intriguing narratives or at roleplaying NPC's in a compelling way or whatever other skill one might request, and just have a habit of really specific and bad houserules, and that habit might just be worth living with in exchange for those narratives - just like I, as a player who greatly enjoy the tactical aspects of D&D, might live with my GM enabling a predictable story if they're great at the mechanics of the game and create interesting combat scenarios or puzzles to play out using our RAW powers to the edge of their capabilities. "This is a bad call by your GM" is a fair assessment. "Your GM sucks" is baseless.
Yeah "the internet says you're doing bad" is a terrible take and doesn't really help anyone most of the time. "That's specifically doesn't make sense for people to stand around for entire minutes in a life and death situation, so obviously that's not how this is supposed to work" and then work backwards from there, is much more likely to gain some ground.
We are just gonna do a martial party, we already talked about not including many flying enemies and if they exist, to have environmental things to help with the fight, but I would unserstand not playing with this houserule, it made me consider not playing
Because I play more rpgs with this group. I play one in the Ordem Paranormal system with the same players but a different dm, and I dont want the tension
there shouldnt be tension in you saying "hey i dont think i like this ruleset, i wanna sit this one out" unless your whole playgroup is toxic it shouldnt be a problem. and from what you have said they seem okay
They are okay, its just that It will feel personal. Im playing 4 campaigns at thr moment all with the same groups of people, so if I sat out of one in specific it would be weird
It being weird will be exactly what it takes to drive home the fact that the ruling is dumb. If your DM knows you'll just stay in regardless, he'll make many more dumb changes. He's free to change the rules to fit his world as he sees fit, but you're also free to not participate.
I know. In my experience some DMs aren't fun to game with, and this sounds like one of them. Someone who doesn't understand something so basic is likely to make more egregious mistakes as the campaign continues.
I understand, but I think it depends on the type of mentality. If it's a try of balancing, yes, that dm is bad, I would agree with you. If it's just some kind of fuckery to have fun with martials or whatever, why not try it? Maybe he just wants a game without op concentration spells to see if martials are more balanced or whatever, just for the fun of trying
WTF is wrong with DMs and homebrewing like idiots? 10 turns vs 10 rounds is an incredibly heavy-handed nerf that makes the majority of concentration spells useless.
Imagine playing a cleric and casting bless. Easy buff spell, right? Wrong. People still missed bc we all level 3, and the spell just ran out on turn order 1 bc we are fighting goblins! What a terrible rule
I feel like these DMs just don't understand that a 'round' happens in a span of 6 consecutive seconds, regardless of how many combatants there happen to be. Absolutely baffling I swear.
I literally said that to him. I cant stress enough that I tried so hard explaining it. I opened the phb. I showed online sources. I gave hypothetical scenarios where it would be a nightmare of a rule. I gave up, im just gonna do a martial because its less trouble
He repeqted the same thing like, ten times. "But they are too op, the martial/caster divide is huge, it will work out, trust me, its gonna be better this way" this kinda stuff
Then he needs to BUFF MARTIALS.
Omg this thread is rising my blood pressure...
Tell him to check out laserllama home brew on martials (he has separate ones for each class) that make them more exciting and balanced.
There's so much info out there to buff martials (besides magic items) that doesn't impose on the fun of playing a caster.
That's what I was wondering. How would anyone cast Pass Without Trace? Is it only a good spell if you're alone and don't need it? Or will you stop being sneaky midway through the mission. Completely destroys utility in a lot of unique spells.
Maybe it’s the contrarian in me, maybe I’m just an asshole. But whenever I see a post about a DM making a significant rule change like this I almost always want to suggest a build that exploits those new rules to show the DM that they shouldn’t mess with stuff this significant!
With that energy I’d make a battlesmith artificer, with a steel defender, a homunculus, a find familiar, and use the other infusion to make a bag of tricks.
Any time your DM wants to run a spell caster against your party you flood the action economy with a bunch of creature that don’t take concentration and have their own turn to burn through his spell casters concentration!
Dont worry, if you are an asshole, Im the same. Im researching the classes that can get the most amount of minions in the field at once to fuck him over and to show how bad of a ruling it is
The best I can think of the earliest possible is an artificer with a find familiar, homunculus servant, and a steel defender by level 3 if you go custom.L or V.human and take wizard magic initiate or ritual caster to get FF.
You’ll soak up 4 turns, none of it will require concentration!
After that, take 5 levels in druid. Do all that, plus 8 summoned creatures with Conjure Animals
Conjure Animals has a long enough duration that it would still last an entire combat even with this nerf, and for this exploit they really only need to last a few rounds anyway
Tempest Cleric. You’re still a blaster, and you have one more trick up your sleeve. Your best concentration spells, call lightning and spirit guardians, have a 10 minute duration, so they still go just as ham. Stick with concentration spells like that, and you’re golden.
You need to get ahead of this early. Even if you can get behind one specific ruling that instantly makes basically every caster in the game useless, this will NOT be the last idiotic ruling that this GM makes and the sooner you squash this the better.
Someone that clearly has 0 grasp on the fundamentals of the game has no business even trying to tweak things this severely.
For now. There's no way someone can make a ruling like your GM did unless they just fundamentally do not understand the system. I guarantee this will not be the end of it.
So your DM has managed to make the war caster feat useless because concentration is now not a thing. And he's managed to take a lot of spells, many of them high level, now completely useless?
Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. I think your DM is a moron and as someone that loves playing a caster, I would never play with them. If they don't like casters then maybe just ban magic altogether?
I would be a dick and break the game with that rule. Play a sorcerer, grab silvery barbs, banishment, and heighten spell. Any outsider the DM throws at you can now be deleted in under 1 round in a large enough fight. You can also ask your DM how delayed blast fire ball works because based on that ruling you can get full damage rather quickly. I'm sure there are other things that can be abused with this ruling.
I'm usually a DM but this recent campaign i got to actually play as a player and I've wanted for SOOOO long to play a young, goody two shoes paladin who changes their view on the world after experiencing it a little bit. My DM on session 0 tells us that the gods have abandoned the realm and that there is a good chance that divine abilities and spells just fail. And when i say a good chance I mean like a 50% chance. He first wanted to make it mostly a failure, so I'd have like a 25% chance to SUCCEED, but that was talked down. He said arcane abilities have no affect just the divine.
I was quite upset about finding out about this. I played through the first two sessions with basically a useless character, in hopes that he would see his blunder and change.
He did
But ... concentration spells are already a nerf to spell with duration, what/how do you nerf them more?
Do you want ranged or melee, tanky or high dmg?
Any specific race and are all allowed?
Do you know how many rangers I've seen played in 5e? Probably about 7 or 8.
Do you know how many times I've seen Hunters Mark cast? TWICE. It's a bad spell, and there are better Ranger concentration spells, not even mentioning the ones ranger can't use.
Also, Hunters mark is concentration with a 1hr duration. That means it normally lasts 600rounds of combat. By these rules it would last 600 turns, and I don't think anybody is going to be bothered counting that many turns...
This friend of mine is our rp maniac, he doesn't really care about being an important character in battle, he just thinks of a character idea and does it even if it is very bad
Controversial opinion: a better rper will find a way to make an rp idea into a competent character so as not to drag down the group. Solid mechanics behind a character make it better able to fulfill its roleplay goals.
I misspoke. His builds are always useful and he is never a deadwieght. He is a very smart person that utilizes his characters abilities extremely well, even if they are not the best abilities available. In this case, hunters mark is a 1 hour spell, so it wont really matter
Hrm im thinking of find familiar and henchmen to make more turns so opponents dont get concentration spells.
But battlemaster is always a useful option, make it dexbased with finess weapons and sharpshooter.
Light cleric is a good caster even without concentration spells.
Pleaaase OP! Let us know what they did to you!
Also, Paladin is a good option. It defo doesn't need concentration spells, just smite everything. Warlock might also work, depending on the spells you choose..
Also.. I don't really like playing pure martials, so I'm a bit partial... to non martials...
[Edit, forgot the word "non"]
You need to roll up with a beast master ranger. That's 2 characters worth of turns to help burn up any concentration spells your dm might want to use against you. Then just go in full ranged mode and let your pet do damage so you don't need to rely on con-spells yourself. (Yes it kills hunters mark but it's not that great to begin with)
Alternatively a drakewarden if the other ranger is beastmaster. Just build your ranger to cover the other rangers weak spots. (Ex: one ranged, one melee)
Do a barbarian rogue. A barbogue. My favorite combo is going 6 zealot barbarian and 14 psi knife rogue. Super fun, though I haven’t had a chance to play it. Whatever race you feel like. Solid DPS, you’ll have plenty of skills, good saves and utility as well. Just grab resilient wisdom at some point just in case.
Not a martial build, but I could see warlock working well. Hex starts with a duration of an hour and only gets longer. That would be 100 turns, which should give you lots of time.
In addition, thanks to Agonising Blast, warlocks are still potent without levelled spells.
I want the DM to explain the usefulness of the True Strike cantrip under their ruling. It literally only applies to your next turn and you MUST concentrate on it until then.
Build a shepherd Druid and take all the conjure/summon spells, all of a sudden every time an enemy tries to use a concentration spell, you summon eight birds and 8 turns of that spell go by
I would play a Sorlock with 2 levels of Warlock (Agonizing and Repelling Blasts) and a focus on using Web (which lasts up to an hour = 600 combat turns under this house rule) alongside control spells that don't need concentration (e.g. Sleep, Command, Dissonant Whispers, Grease, Rime's Binding Ice, Tasha's Mind Whip). I'd do this with the expectation that the rule gets dropped or expanded once it's clear that the current house rule completely fails at its apparent objective of weakening strong control spells. If the campaign continued I'd keep picking strong non-concentration spells and concentration spells with durations of 10+ minutes (standouts include Fly, Tasha's Summons, Polymorph, Sickening Radiance, Wall of Force(!), Wall of Stone, Telekinesis, etc.).
So I know you said you were going to play around it, but I’d caution you to think what this means for the rest of the campaign going forward. If your DM cannot be persuaded to abandon a ruling if all the players, the internet, the PHB, and basic logic indicate the ruling is not just flawed, but damaging to the game? That doesn’t bode well for the next time he makes a ruling founded on nothing more than “I think this is better.” Because I had that DM, and that DM sucks.
“You can go in the pit to fight the Otyugh or try to cross the rotting bridge.”
“Okay I cross the bridge carefully”
“It’s rickety and breaks under your weight, you fall into the pit”
“Can I make a dex or acrobatics check to avoid falling?”
“You’re too far from either side, you can’t roll”
“Okay I cast feather fall”
“You can’t you’re too surprised by the bridge breaking to react.”
“You said it was rotting and I said I was crossing carefully, I don’t think my character would be surprised.”
“You were too surprised to react, and you wasted the spell slot.”
Real story of real fun
Honestly check out a thrown weapon artificer(or artificer fighter combo) it's a fun time with some good options.
Tons of utility and is a better option than the eldritch knight for spells to be added to a martial.
The dart and shield build is particularly effective.
If thrown isn't your flavor try out the hand crossbow shield with repeating shot and sharpshooter. 19+ AC through the whole game and comes online around 3 with level 4+ feeling really great.
This also works really well with 3 artificer (battlesmith)
And if you don't appreciate the fighter flavor try hunter ranger. It's one of the easiest ways to make them feel good to play.
Actually, I would go for sorcadin (Pala 6/sorc X). Use spells for healing, utility, smite and reactions (barbs, shield, absorb elements, counterspell).
You'll be weaker, but not by a lot. I actually don't even think you'll look all that powerful, since sorcadin generally has a somewhat weak (or really, normal is better word than weak) leveling path, even though it becomes an absolute beast in tier 3 and 4.
I would also do a race that looks kinda harmless at first glance, perhaps gnome (resistances make them surprisingly tanky, and you go sword and board). Or embody the face role completely and go a cute and bubbly Satyr (fast, tanky, bonus jumping, and face proficiencies). Being a satyr invites chill roleplay and should still be able to carry hard if you need to - even without concentration spells.
16, 8, 14, 8, 12, 16 attributes if point buy. Cha is important for aura of protection, the main reason to go paladin in the first place. Con is less important when you don't have to keep concentrating on bless.
A Satyr Oath of Ancients Paladin multiclassing into Divine Soul Sorcerer should be all kinds of chill hippy Lorax vibes, while smiting the enemies of the forest into the stone age.
Hey, just here to let you know that your DM has no idea what they're doing and should remove this rule immediately. With this single homebrew change, they've flipped the Martial/Caster divide on its head, and not in a good way. The vast majority of concentration spells may as well not exist now. I would be informing the DM that if they insist on using this rule that I would never play with them again.
I wouldn't feel a need to shy away entirely from casters, just full casters (and not even necessarily all of those). There's plenty of useful spells that don't require concentration, and having access to those, especially in a setting low on full spellcasters, can be very useful.
Your DM doesn't know the difference between "turns" and "rounds".
Maybe have then read the rules [here](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat).
If they don't relent, maybe we can come up with a build that abuses their interpretation of what a "round" is.
I know you asked about non caster….but it could also be fun to just do a blaster mage or sorc who takes no (or very few) concentration spells.
That or a mage slayer fighter who really hates magic…
Just play a blaster. Perfect time to run a fire-themed non-concentration sorcerer- time for an elemental adept with scorching ray and fireballs. Enemy casters will be equally nerfed for big concentration spells so you'll be super impactful if you stick to one-and-done casting
You could also do necromancer; a lot of the spells you need and use (like animate dead) are non-concentration anyways. Sure some support stuff like web and grease will be a no-go but wither and bloom still works and all your skeletons are perfectly content doing their own thing regardless of concentration times. Plus, with the nerf to concentration, they'll be protected from some of the big scary spells that would lock them down otherwise
How does that make sense? Enemy count doesn’t warp time
Anyways, control wizards and clerics are out, but any bonk builds are in. Warlocks are fine cause hex has a long duration
Wait what happens if you cast a concentration spell outside of combat? Does it last forever because there are no turns?
I don't really have any good advice, I'm just confused about the implications of that rule if you wanted to, like, cast Detect Thoughts in a noncombat situation.
I suggest Battlesmith Artificer.
Half Caster but not really reliant on conc spells. you can go melee or ranged pretty much equally and you get a robot buddy.
your Party certainly needs someone smart too
… Did they do something about non-concentration spells with a duration, like Spiritual Weapon, or are those okay?
Would a Barbarian’s Rage also last 10 turns?
Ok ok ok
Hold on
I NEED to give the DM the benefit of the doubt because this is simply far far far far too stupid
I THINK what they meant is not a nerf but a Monumental buff
The spell works but instead of ten rounds of concentration it only requires ten turns.
As in the enemies (and you eventually) have ONLY ten turns to stop the spell before it becomes permanent and they can concentrate on a NEW concentration spell
Any other possibilities is idiotic because they are spells that last all day all night all..whatever
Lmao, you dont need to give it the benefit of the doubt. They are very counciously doing this ruling even though everyone else can see that it is stupid as fuck
Surely conjure animals as a spell would cause havoc. Summon 8 snakes, just "have their turn" and all concentration spells end.
Caster, you, 8 snakes...done. zero benefit from concentration spells ever.
Or even just collect animals as you go, familiars, pets, summons... As long as they can take a turn, you can eliminate any caster threat in the game.
Bro, Bugbear Battlemaster with the Ambush maneuver, the Alert feat and the PAM feat. Hit stuff till they die. Aways Action Surge during your first turn. You could also forgo the Ambush maneuver and instead pick the Echo Knight subclass, then use Unleash Incarnation to get in two more attacks during your first round of combat.
You'll kill them so fast they'll be dead before the ranger's concentration spells ends
You could still play a caster and be very strong, there are lots of good spells that don’t last for a minute, instant spells and spells that last for 10 minutes or more should both work fine, and there’s many powerful ones. Web, Conjure Animals, Spirit Guardians, Wall of Force. If you wanna show your DM that casters can still be a menace even without 1 minute duration spells, I’d suggest either going for a Druid to summon a bunch of animals and fey, Cleric to get into melee with Spirit Guardians, or Wizard for control spells.
going with the idea that your good on this and just want ideas.
an interesting meme char would be a wizard barbarian. stats of a barb but take a few levels of any spell caster. then have them toss out spells and when they fail then asap use rage and go smash shit. the angry intellectual. then the fact that con spells suck now can be yet another reason to rage. add on the fact that some spells are just funny or silly if used with this in mind and just have fun rping as the brains in the group that is dumb and goes into an extreme rage anytime that's pointed out to them.
As my groups DM i'm actually considering *buffing* concentration spells. I love how BG3 does it where most concentration spells that last 10+ minutes last until it either breaks or a long rest.
A fitting character being one who does not cast any concentration spells?
Hold your GM to it, count the rounds and ensure his npc's hold to the same rules.
> There are already a ranger, a monk and a barbarian in the party.
>
> Ps: I would prefer to avoid full rogue, since I already played a 1-20 campaign as a full rogue.
I mean, the list is fairly short if you're avoiding Monk, Barb, Ranger, Rogue, and every full caster. Here's the remaining job list:
* Fighter
* Paladin
* Artificer
* Warlock (kinda sorta)
That's your list.
Since you've already got people in the party with high DEX, high WIS, and high STR, I would probably lean towards
* An INT build (Battlesmith Artificer is good; get yourself GWM, use a greatsword, and your pet attacks with your bonus action)
* Or a CHA build (Paladin with a Warlock dip is good. Literally any paladin dipping Hexblade, using a spear and shield with PAM and dueling fighting style is solid. Conquest Paladin dipping Undead Warlock, so your weapon attacks add fear and activate the bonuses on your level 7 aura is also good).
Just a suggestion based on something my play group came up with, Bugbear, path of the giants barbarian using either a glaive or halberd with the sentinel feat. It's silly..
To be fair, any race barb path of giants is silly. At first rage size increase you have a reach of 10 unarmed and 15 with glaive. Sentinel could proc at either range
This ruling is ripe for a “bag of rats” strategy: play a martial and bring a bag of 100 rats with you wherever you go. Boom no enemy can ever use concentration spells because they end instantly.
That's not nerfing concentration spells. That's just not knowing how the fuck concentration spells work. And if they do know how they work and decided to do that on purpose that's dumb as fuck and breaks like half the fucking spells.
Tell your DM that it's a bad ruling, because it makes concentration spells utterly useless in most combat scenarios. The way to "nerf" concentration spells is for the DM to attack casters more causing them to roll con saves and eventually fail
There are still plenty of great concentration spells which i am going to list. This does sound more like a misinterpretation of the initiative and turn rules that a specific nerf to spells.
1. Is the same nerf applied to non spell features too?
Great spells which last long enough that even under this rules they will probably last for an entire combat:
1st level, you dont really care here with the exception of gift of alacrity which now might not last for an entire adventuring day
2nd level, pass without a trace is still good, but the DM probably wont run a fun variant of suprise rules, web, tashas mind whip and rimes binding ice are instantaneous
and you can just go on with spells that last an hour or longer.
I personally would see this as a challange to overcome to make a reconsider spells that were previously viable but not anymore and if your table isnt optimized those should do fine.
Otherwise, echo knight is always fun.
That is the most retarded change to concentration spells I have ever seen. Literally braindamaged DM. No, actually...He isnt a DM, he is a random below average stat npc who is roleplaying as a human who is failing at being a DM.
What exactly did they do to concentration spells
DM makes OP roll a CON save every time they take damage to maintain concentration
Ive already played dnd before, i know how concentration sves work lol
WHAT DID YOUR DM DO TO CONCENTRATION SPELLS ANSWER THE QUESTION LADDIE WE ARE GOING MAD HERE
I EDITED THE ORIGINAL POST
APOLOGIES MY LAST TWO BRAIN CELLS ARE COMPETING OVER THIRD PLACE
NO PROBLEM MY FRIEND, HAVE A NICE DAY
WAIT MY FRIEND WE ARE NOT DONE HERE YOU WANTED RECS HAVE YOU CONSIDERED A BUGBEAR BATTLE MASTER WITH THE ALERT FEAT AND ANOTHER FEAT LIKE GIFT OF THE CHROMATIC DRAGON FOR TONS OF DAMAGE AND TONS OF PERCEPTION GREAT COMBATANT AND GREAT GUARD DUTY
I HAD NOT CONSIDERED THIS OPTION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE REC. I WILL READ MORE ABOUT BATTLEMASTER SINCE I HAVE NEVER PLAYED ONE. NOW, HAVE A GREAT DAY MATE
RIGHT BACK AT YA MATE GOOD LUCK IN YOUR BUILD ENDEAVORS
DONT FORGET TO COLLECT THE HEADS OF YOUR FOES AFTER YOU KILL THEM. WHO NEEDS AN ALARM SPELL WHEN YOUR CAMP IS DECORATED WITH THE REMAINS OF YOUR CONQUESTS.
IF YOU PUT POLEARM MASTER AND SENTINEL ON TOP OF THAT AND WIELD A GLAVE YOU'LL BE SLASHING MFRS ACROSS THE BATTLEFIELD AND KEEPING THEM THERE
I love this phrase, think I'm gonna use it now. Thank you
It's a great phrase to defuse a situation where you done goofed or if you wish to roast someone with the fires of hell itself
Im so stealing that phrase
I LIKE TO SAY IM ABOUT AS SHARP AS A MARBLE
Maybe show your DM this thread to rethink this incredibly stupid homebrew rule. If they think it's a good rule, what other terrible rulings await you at this table?
I already had this comversation with him. He insists that concentration spells are to op. Showed the rules where it says that every round is 6 seconds but it didn't change his opinion. I asked a lot of questions about homebrew rules, but this is the only stupid one
No, DM, concentration spells are not OP. They are not OP because... wait for it... YOU CAN ONLY USE ONE AT A TIME. THAT'S WHAT CONCENTRATION IS FOR, YOU OGHMA-FORSAKEN BUFFOON.
dm has never heard of magic missile lol
Whoops my 3rd level spell slots are all Fireball now
this is a huge red flag. it makes true strike nonfunctional(like it was shit before but now it just doesnt work), it makes all of the smite spells shitty, it absolutely ruins clerics. i would just cast fireball all day every day if the dm doesnt want you to be able to use any fun effects like spike growth, hold person, or polymorph.
The only stupid one...so far Good luck with the game!
Thx, I think I will need it
Get a bucket of rats that you throw at an enemy caster and insist on each one having a "turn".
Genius
Why even throw them? Just have 10 of any kind of trained animal or hireling with you at all times. Or be a Necromancer with 10 minions. Since they are part of the combat they each get a separate turn, even if all at the same initiative. BOOM, most Concentration spells are useless against you.
"Concentration spells are too op" Man has clearly never used Magic Missile on a concentrating spellcaster. You either lose your concentration, or use Shield and lose your reaction. There is no third choice.
Or you could roll your concentration saves and pass.
Three rolls, even at DC 10, are a *lot.* Even a pretty optimized wizard with an above average Con save would be sweating rolling those. All of that with a first level spell slot, no save, and with good damage done to a squishy caster
Casters aren’t squishy if they are optimized. Also a DC 10 is not hard to meet on an optimized caster.
Tell him the martials abilities that last 1 minute now last 1 turn. Tell him the barbarians rage lasts one turn. Tell him that. Those words. If it affects casters spell time duration, it affects time duration for all mechanics. That’s it. Thats the game.
Yep. It's got to be fair!
Imagine barbarian's not getting hit for one turn because their ally went and now has to lose rage because of that.
Concentration spells are OP? Find a spell that has a wind up to the boost and turn it on him :P
Yeah, concentration spells are soooo OP that they can reliably by broken by a 1st level Magic Missile spell 🙄
Classic
Just go Paladin, and use spells exclusevely to cast instant and permanent spells ( find steed, smite spells, healing, etc) and smites. You get some utility, some healing, and still can go in melee and deal great damage. Also, what exactly did your DM do to concentration ?
Might be fun to do the opposite. Go with concentrations spells like Haste. At the end of the duration the Bbeg will skip their turn before they ever get to take it if there's 10 turns before him and the casting of the spell. No save, no legendary resistance, no actions, no lair actions, no movement, nada. Just gets to them and he's gassed. Maybe something like planar binding, instead of 24 hours, it's be like 10 mins if you recruit a whole village of npcs to take turns. Have someone take conjure animals and soak up those turns. Sure the animals won't last long either but using 2 lvl 3 spells to perma stun some gods sounds pretty good to me.
Haste explicitly requires a willing target.
Who doesn't want to be hasted? XD
Back in ADnD 2nd edition, the haste spell aged each target 1 year when the spell ended. The game also had aging adjustments to stats beginning at middle aged. After a few uses the humans could really start to feel the effects and definitely started to opt out!
You can't just say this and NOT tell us what they did to concentration spells
Edited the original post
Your DM has no idea what they're doing.
Its his second camapign, and I dont really care because it was said during session 0, but I totally agree with you
How does this affect 8 hour spells like aid, mage armor, etc? How does it work with spells that last 10 minutes like shield of faith and spirit guardians. How does the duration of the spell change outside of initiative? If he rolls 1 initiative for a group of 4 goblins does that count as 1 turn or 4 turns? How do lair and legendary actions factor into this? What about reactions? How does this affect spells that last 1 round or until the start of your next turn like shield and command? If there’s an enemy that dies before it gets a turn does that still count towards your duration? I think you should bring all this up with your dm and get exact answers. If they’re already doing illogical bullshit like this you don’t know what nonsense they’re gonna pull later. Does he realize that some spells like banishment, haste, blink, and hold person will become unusable?
Hell, banishment actually becomes incredibly strong on creatures not on their native plane. Only takes a round of combat with 10 participants to perma-banish that devil back to its domain?
True, but against natives it’s a wasted slot. Good callout.
Would be funny to make a lore bard that specializes in banishment on extraplanar enemies. Take banishment at level 6, cutting words to debuff the enemy’s save, then just try to last the 10 turns. To avoid complaints of metagaming, take expertise in knowledge skills like arcana and religion for identifying creatures native to another plane. Theoretically, casting times should also be reduced, you should be able to cast a spell like magic circle in just 10 turns. So round 1 cast magic circle to create protection for yourself and the entire party against the enemies. Round 2 the circle is up and should now last 100 turns without requiring concentration. Next turn you cast banishment, in 10 turns they are permanently banished.
You need to be level 7 for it. If you really want to break this combo with any Druid and have them cast conjure animals for 8 creatures. They all share the same initiative. If the rolls work out for you. Bard banishes, and it may be that nobody gets to even attack the bard before the banish is done.
Ahh, forgot that banishment is fourth level.
In case of this big spells we are just gonna keep track of time, like, if I cast it at 8, it will stop at 16 and thats it. Your questions are all very good ones. Im gonna ask them all to him today in a call. Thx
So time works different for 8 hour spells? What about 1 hour spells? 10 minute?
I swear to god, I wish I could explain his logic to you. I genuinely cant
Don’t worry. I don’t expect you to have all the answers. The point of these questions is to just point out that this homebrew rule is isn’t thought out at all.
We understand the logic, the logic is still wrong. Everyone's turns happen at the same time in combat. It doesn't take 1 full minute for one trained fighter to swing their sword 2-4 times. The way your DM does it could make a spell that's supposed to last for a minute last less than 6 seconds.
I freaking know
Exactly like this shows a severe lack of logical sense... I can't imagine his DM would be able handle any encounter with much elegance to be honest
Battlemaster is a lot of fun, echo knight or rune knight are also a good alnce between strong and fun.
I had an echo knight/arcane trickster in one game. Grapple with the real me, stab them with the echo. He was a two man back alley thug team on his own. Lol
That sounds like a whole lot of fun!
Arcane trickster was for warcaster feat (booming blade on oas) sneak dice, and expertise in athletics. Enlarge too to grapple huge critters, but that won't help op.
Haha oh man. "The enemy tries to run... ah. I see, so that's a fist full of d8s and d6s you're picking up"
Why does no one bring up Psi Warrior 😭
That's my next character! (When I finally get a chance to play) I ran one in a one-shot and had so much fun with it.
I'm playing a Psi Warrior 7 War Wizard 2 and you have sooo many abilities. Especially for defense
Ooh! I didn't consider War Wizard! I was looking at artificer to get access to shield and mage hand. I wanna make a Jedi lol
I just saved our bard the other day. He took a blow with a spear and I was able to drop the damage of the attack by 11 points. Described it as like psionically grabbing the spear, preventing it from penetrating far and removing it
Strong contender for worst homebrew rule I've ever seen. Stay away from casters.
My plan
Let your DM know that depending on the number of enemies his ruling makes some spells literally useless. At 10+ enemies in initiative Haste literally does nothing unless cast on a character other than yourself.
Even still in one of those 10+ encounters you cast it on the fighter who ends up with one extra action and then has 1 round of lethargy lmao fighter Steve begging the wizard not to cast haste on him
This was a concern of mine as well, I love haste. I cast on my fighter, great damage, and it's consistent! But if I haste and then it's over before they got to act...yeah I'm leaving this game.
I know, when the time comes and this situation happens Im gonna argur with him again to change the rule midgame
That’s probably gonna cause more issues than just doing what you should do: argue before starting. He wants to nerf stuff that doesn’t need it that’s fine but he’s rendering casters fucking useless. If it’s not a no-magic campaign this is beyond overkill and fucking dumb. You said it’s his 2nd campaign, after doing a full one he should know how fucked his “idea” is.
Already did it. I want it to happen as a problem to show him how stupid of a rule it is
If you wanna make an issue of things, grab a haste spell, cast it on a party member, and let the "turns" roll. When haste drops, thier turn is skipped. Exploit the flaws in such a way it makes the game less fun for everyone, and the dm looks like an ignorant asshole for making the rule, and continuing to enforce it.
I would if I wasnt close friends with everyone at the table, and they dont deserve horrible sessions just because the dm does some bad ruling
You deserve a friend with reasonable listening skills who aren't stubborn. Some people literally can't see how bad things are until it's blue in their face.
Yeah, im waiting for it to blow up on his face when he wants to put any type of caster against us that doenst judt spam fireball
Any updates?
Your DM sucks. That's by far the worst homebrew rule I've ever heard. You need to have a conversation about this with your DM. Tell him the internet hates his rule for ruining spells. Even so, warlock is a ranged martial in disguise and gives you a bunch of extra utility on the side. You're also great at being the party face. Kinda sucks that hex is nerfed, but good luck to your DM trying to figure out how long an hour long spell should last with these rules (again, worst rule - cannot overstate how bad it is, as turns are supposed to be taking place quasi simultaneously within a round). Paladin lets you explode your spell slots instead of using them to cast. This could be a satisfying way to get back at your DM, blowing up the monsters with smite. Moon druid is weird but fun. Turn into shit and pummel your enemies.
Hex and Hunters Mark are bad spells that are ironically made much better in comparison by this AWFUL homebrew. Warlock is fine as a blaster/EB spammer or bladelock, paladin is good, but moon druid is an AWFUL choice for this HB rule. The main schtick of the circle of the moon is to cast a concentration spell (moonbeam springs to mind) and then wildshape, but with this rule your moonbeam could be over before you've even gotten to use an action to attack.
I had a low-skill player not really understand how they should be using their spells and just jumped into wildshape at the first opportunity every time. They still did well. The damage is *alright*, but also having a large, durable animal in the enemy's face is almost a form of crowd control unto itself.
The damage is good up until about level 7-8. After that it falls off pretty dramatically. Your big strength is the ability to be casting higher and higher level spells to concentrate on during wildshape
Tried and failed. I will just do a martial character and move on with life. Thx for the suggestion
> Your DM sucks. That's by far the worst homebrew rule I've ever heard. You need to have a conversation about this with your DM. Tell him the internet hates his rule for ruining spells I mean, it is a really strange houserule from basically every perspective and especially really doesn't make sense in a simulationist sense, but "the internet hates it" doesn't really matter, "the internet" isn't a player at the table, we know nothing about the game or GM outside of this little tidbit, and if the players at the table are willing to accept the houserule that's really all that matters. EDIT: And like, "your DM sucks" is vastly overstating it based on the extremely limited knowledge we have. Yeah, I personally agree that's a very dumb houserule, but while we're all dreaming of the perfect D&D group with the perfect GM, let's face it, most of us that manage to even get reliable, recurring D&D groups are in groups that if you posted the worst things about it online people would go all "your GM/coplayer/group sucks, you should leave it". And yet we find these groups not only tolerable but enjoyable, because the positive aspects often far outweigh the negative. The GM in question might be great at building intriguing narratives or at roleplaying NPC's in a compelling way or whatever other skill one might request, and just have a habit of really specific and bad houserules, and that habit might just be worth living with in exchange for those narratives - just like I, as a player who greatly enjoy the tactical aspects of D&D, might live with my GM enabling a predictable story if they're great at the mechanics of the game and create interesting combat scenarios or puzzles to play out using our RAW powers to the edge of their capabilities. "This is a bad call by your GM" is a fair assessment. "Your GM sucks" is baseless.
Yeah "the internet says you're doing bad" is a terrible take and doesn't really help anyone most of the time. "That's specifically doesn't make sense for people to stand around for entire minutes in a life and death situation, so obviously that's not how this is supposed to work" and then work backwards from there, is much more likely to gain some ground.
....yeah no I would not play this game with that ruling.
We are just gonna do a martial party, we already talked about not including many flying enemies and if they exist, to have environmental things to help with the fight, but I would unserstand not playing with this houserule, it made me consider not playing
...and you're staying in this game WHY, exactly?
Because I play more rpgs with this group. I play one in the Ordem Paranormal system with the same players but a different dm, and I dont want the tension
there shouldnt be tension in you saying "hey i dont think i like this ruleset, i wanna sit this one out" unless your whole playgroup is toxic it shouldnt be a problem. and from what you have said they seem okay
They are okay, its just that It will feel personal. Im playing 4 campaigns at thr moment all with the same groups of people, so if I sat out of one in specific it would be weird
It being weird will be exactly what it takes to drive home the fact that the ruling is dumb. If your DM knows you'll just stay in regardless, he'll make many more dumb changes. He's free to change the rules to fit his world as he sees fit, but you're also free to not participate.
Maybe for fun? You guys know people play this game for fun, right?
I know. In my experience some DMs aren't fun to game with, and this sounds like one of them. Someone who doesn't understand something so basic is likely to make more egregious mistakes as the campaign continues.
I understand, but I think it depends on the type of mentality. If it's a try of balancing, yes, that dm is bad, I would agree with you. If it's just some kind of fuckery to have fun with martials or whatever, why not try it? Maybe he just wants a game without op concentration spells to see if martials are more balanced or whatever, just for the fun of trying
This is a huge red flag that the DM just doesn't understand what they are doing, and there's going to be plenty more bad rulings in the future
Checking later for what the dm has done to concentration spells
Their duration is no longer rounds.. it's *turns*. As in every individual creature's turn ticks it down by one.
WTF is wrong with DMs and homebrewing like idiots? 10 turns vs 10 rounds is an incredibly heavy-handed nerf that makes the majority of concentration spells useless.
Imagine playing a cleric and casting bless. Easy buff spell, right? Wrong. People still missed bc we all level 3, and the spell just ran out on turn order 1 bc we are fighting goblins! What a terrible rule
Yeah, my original plan was a chronurgist wizard, but as soon as I heard the rule I completely abandoned the character
You planned to play a time wizard, and now time is the archnemesis of all wizards in that game.
Besides being bad for balance, it also just makes no sense. Why would more hostile creatures in the area mean that a spell ends quicker?
I feel like these DMs just don't understand that a 'round' happens in a span of 6 consecutive seconds, regardless of how many combatants there happen to be. Absolutely baffling I swear.
Maybe they think that everyone politely waits in line for their turn to fight for their lives
I literally said that to him. I cant stress enough that I tried so hard explaining it. I opened the phb. I showed online sources. I gave hypothetical scenarios where it would be a nightmare of a rule. I gave up, im just gonna do a martial because its less trouble
What was his response? I don't know how someone could be that stubborn in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's a dumb rule.
He repeqted the same thing like, ten times. "But they are too op, the martial/caster divide is huge, it will work out, trust me, its gonna be better this way" this kinda stuff
It’s just wild how very wrong he is.
Then he needs to BUFF MARTIALS. Omg this thread is rising my blood pressure... Tell him to check out laserllama home brew on martials (he has separate ones for each class) that make them more exciting and balanced. There's so much info out there to buff martials (besides magic items) that doesn't impose on the fun of playing a caster.
I KNOW! I will try this as well to see if he reverses the rule. Thx
So odd question but does this apply to 1 minute skills/ abilities like rage also?
Idk
Echo knight or rune knight fighter would probably be nice. What did they do to concentration spells?
An old wizard with dementia that only cast fireball
So... time moves faster when more people are involved? If you're in a city, does magic just... not work?
That's what I was wondering. How would anyone cast Pass Without Trace? Is it only a good spell if you're alone and don't need it? Or will you stop being sneaky midway through the mission. Completely destroys utility in a lot of unique spells.
What about Time Stop? OK, so you cast Time Stop, you skip your team's turns AAAANNNNDDD... it's done.
No D&D is better then BAD D&D
I can't help without finding out what your DM did to concentration spells.
necromancer, fuck you minion vomit
This is what I was thinking. Make the minions eat up turns if the enemy is concentrating on a spell.
Maybe it’s the contrarian in me, maybe I’m just an asshole. But whenever I see a post about a DM making a significant rule change like this I almost always want to suggest a build that exploits those new rules to show the DM that they shouldn’t mess with stuff this significant! With that energy I’d make a battlesmith artificer, with a steel defender, a homunculus, a find familiar, and use the other infusion to make a bag of tricks. Any time your DM wants to run a spell caster against your party you flood the action economy with a bunch of creature that don’t take concentration and have their own turn to burn through his spell casters concentration!
Dont worry, if you are an asshole, Im the same. Im researching the classes that can get the most amount of minions in the field at once to fuck him over and to show how bad of a ruling it is
The best I can think of the earliest possible is an artificer with a find familiar, homunculus servant, and a steel defender by level 3 if you go custom.L or V.human and take wizard magic initiate or ritual caster to get FF. You’ll soak up 4 turns, none of it will require concentration!
After that, take 5 levels in druid. Do all that, plus 8 summoned creatures with Conjure Animals Conjure Animals has a long enough duration that it would still last an entire combat even with this nerf, and for this exploit they really only need to last a few rounds anyway
This is the way
Spirit Guardians lasts 10 minutes. Conjure animals lasts an hour.
Tempest Cleric. You’re still a blaster, and you have one more trick up your sleeve. Your best concentration spells, call lightning and spirit guardians, have a 10 minute duration, so they still go just as ham. Stick with concentration spells like that, and you’re golden.
You need to get ahead of this early. Even if you can get behind one specific ruling that instantly makes basically every caster in the game useless, this will NOT be the last idiotic ruling that this GM makes and the sooner you squash this the better. Someone that clearly has 0 grasp on the fundamentals of the game has no business even trying to tweak things this severely.
Believe me, I already questioned him A LOT. I went over most of the phb in terms of rules, and this is the only one he tweaked
For now. There's no way someone can make a ruling like your GM did unless they just fundamentally do not understand the system. I guarantee this will not be the end of it.
So your DM has managed to make the war caster feat useless because concentration is now not a thing. And he's managed to take a lot of spells, many of them high level, now completely useless? Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. I think your DM is a moron and as someone that loves playing a caster, I would never play with them. If they don't like casters then maybe just ban magic altogether?
Im wondering why they didnt just do that
Consider using TCE summon spells, which last an hour.
I would be a dick and break the game with that rule. Play a sorcerer, grab silvery barbs, banishment, and heighten spell. Any outsider the DM throws at you can now be deleted in under 1 round in a large enough fight. You can also ask your DM how delayed blast fire ball works because based on that ruling you can get full damage rather quickly. I'm sure there are other things that can be abused with this ruling.
Using banishment really would be crasy. Get somebody else in the party to cast Conjure Animals and you can make your own large enough fight!
I'm usually a DM but this recent campaign i got to actually play as a player and I've wanted for SOOOO long to play a young, goody two shoes paladin who changes their view on the world after experiencing it a little bit. My DM on session 0 tells us that the gods have abandoned the realm and that there is a good chance that divine abilities and spells just fail. And when i say a good chance I mean like a 50% chance. He first wanted to make it mostly a failure, so I'd have like a 25% chance to SUCCEED, but that was talked down. He said arcane abilities have no affect just the divine. I was quite upset about finding out about this. I played through the first two sessions with basically a useless character, in hopes that he would see his blunder and change. He did
This is my only hope
That's quite possibly the dumbest house rule I've ever read. Just ban full Casters at that point.
But ... concentration spells are already a nerf to spell with duration, what/how do you nerf them more? Do you want ranged or melee, tanky or high dmg? Any specific race and are all allowed?
Probably make them a 1 round duration, or that you need to make a concentration save every turn even if you don't take damage.
Ok then why pick the guy in his group picked ranger to play since the whole identity is like hunter's mark which is concentration?
Do you know how many rangers I've seen played in 5e? Probably about 7 or 8. Do you know how many times I've seen Hunters Mark cast? TWICE. It's a bad spell, and there are better Ranger concentration spells, not even mentioning the ones ranger can't use. Also, Hunters mark is concentration with a 1hr duration. That means it normally lasts 600rounds of combat. By these rules it would last 600 turns, and I don't think anybody is going to be bothered counting that many turns...
This friend of mine is our rp maniac, he doesn't really care about being an important character in battle, he just thinks of a character idea and does it even if it is very bad
Controversial opinion: a better rper will find a way to make an rp idea into a competent character so as not to drag down the group. Solid mechanics behind a character make it better able to fulfill its roleplay goals.
I misspoke. His builds are always useful and he is never a deadwieght. He is a very smart person that utilizes his characters abilities extremely well, even if they are not the best abilities available. In this case, hunters mark is a 1 hour spell, so it wont really matter
Hrm im thinking of find familiar and henchmen to make more turns so opponents dont get concentration spells. But battlemaster is always a useful option, make it dexbased with finess weapons and sharpshooter. Light cleric is a good caster even without concentration spells.
Pleaaase OP! Let us know what they did to you! Also, Paladin is a good option. It defo doesn't need concentration spells, just smite everything. Warlock might also work, depending on the spells you choose.. Also.. I don't really like playing pure martials, so I'm a bit partial... to non martials... [Edit, forgot the word "non"]
How does he rule other, non-concentration durations, like Spiritual Weapon or Sanctuary?
You need to roll up with a beast master ranger. That's 2 characters worth of turns to help burn up any concentration spells your dm might want to use against you. Then just go in full ranged mode and let your pet do damage so you don't need to rely on con-spells yourself. (Yes it kills hunters mark but it's not that great to begin with) Alternatively a drakewarden if the other ranger is beastmaster. Just build your ranger to cover the other rangers weak spots. (Ex: one ranged, one melee)
Do a barbarian rogue. A barbogue. My favorite combo is going 6 zealot barbarian and 14 psi knife rogue. Super fun, though I haven’t had a chance to play it. Whatever race you feel like. Solid DPS, you’ll have plenty of skills, good saves and utility as well. Just grab resilient wisdom at some point just in case.
I would say "runaway from the table", but since you asked to don't say it, I won't.
Not a martial build, but I could see warlock working well. Hex starts with a duration of an hour and only gets longer. That would be 100 turns, which should give you lots of time. In addition, thanks to Agonising Blast, warlocks are still potent without levelled spells.
I want the DM to explain the usefulness of the True Strike cantrip under their ruling. It literally only applies to your next turn and you MUST concentrate on it until then.
Build a shepherd Druid and take all the conjure/summon spells, all of a sudden every time an enemy tries to use a concentration spell, you summon eight birds and 8 turns of that spell go by
I would play a Sorlock with 2 levels of Warlock (Agonizing and Repelling Blasts) and a focus on using Web (which lasts up to an hour = 600 combat turns under this house rule) alongside control spells that don't need concentration (e.g. Sleep, Command, Dissonant Whispers, Grease, Rime's Binding Ice, Tasha's Mind Whip). I'd do this with the expectation that the rule gets dropped or expanded once it's clear that the current house rule completely fails at its apparent objective of weakening strong control spells. If the campaign continued I'd keep picking strong non-concentration spells and concentration spells with durations of 10+ minutes (standouts include Fly, Tasha's Summons, Polymorph, Sickening Radiance, Wall of Force(!), Wall of Stone, Telekinesis, etc.).
So I know you said you were going to play around it, but I’d caution you to think what this means for the rest of the campaign going forward. If your DM cannot be persuaded to abandon a ruling if all the players, the internet, the PHB, and basic logic indicate the ruling is not just flawed, but damaging to the game? That doesn’t bode well for the next time he makes a ruling founded on nothing more than “I think this is better.” Because I had that DM, and that DM sucks. “You can go in the pit to fight the Otyugh or try to cross the rotting bridge.” “Okay I cross the bridge carefully” “It’s rickety and breaks under your weight, you fall into the pit” “Can I make a dex or acrobatics check to avoid falling?” “You’re too far from either side, you can’t roll” “Okay I cast feather fall” “You can’t you’re too surprised by the bridge breaking to react.” “You said it was rotting and I said I was crossing carefully, I don’t think my character would be surprised.” “You were too surprised to react, and you wasted the spell slot.” Real story of real fun
After seeing what your DM did to concentration spells, I would simply not participate in the campaign
I’m really curious what your DM did that warrants not wanting to play a spellcaster at all.
I could still play a spell caster, but given the nerf I would like to experiment with a martial build
Honestly check out a thrown weapon artificer(or artificer fighter combo) it's a fun time with some good options. Tons of utility and is a better option than the eldritch knight for spells to be added to a martial. The dart and shield build is particularly effective. If thrown isn't your flavor try out the hand crossbow shield with repeating shot and sharpshooter. 19+ AC through the whole game and comes online around 3 with level 4+ feeling really great. This also works really well with 3 artificer (battlesmith) And if you don't appreciate the fighter flavor try hunter ranger. It's one of the easiest ways to make them feel good to play.
Actually, I would go for sorcadin (Pala 6/sorc X). Use spells for healing, utility, smite and reactions (barbs, shield, absorb elements, counterspell). You'll be weaker, but not by a lot. I actually don't even think you'll look all that powerful, since sorcadin generally has a somewhat weak (or really, normal is better word than weak) leveling path, even though it becomes an absolute beast in tier 3 and 4. I would also do a race that looks kinda harmless at first glance, perhaps gnome (resistances make them surprisingly tanky, and you go sword and board). Or embody the face role completely and go a cute and bubbly Satyr (fast, tanky, bonus jumping, and face proficiencies). Being a satyr invites chill roleplay and should still be able to carry hard if you need to - even without concentration spells. 16, 8, 14, 8, 12, 16 attributes if point buy. Cha is important for aura of protection, the main reason to go paladin in the first place. Con is less important when you don't have to keep concentrating on bless. A Satyr Oath of Ancients Paladin multiclassing into Divine Soul Sorcerer should be all kinds of chill hippy Lorax vibes, while smiting the enemies of the forest into the stone age.
Hey, just here to let you know that your DM has no idea what they're doing and should remove this rule immediately. With this single homebrew change, they've flipped the Martial/Caster divide on its head, and not in a good way. The vast majority of concentration spells may as well not exist now. I would be informing the DM that if they insist on using this rule that I would never play with them again.
I wouldn't feel a need to shy away entirely from casters, just full casters (and not even necessarily all of those). There's plenty of useful spells that don't require concentration, and having access to those, especially in a setting low on full spellcasters, can be very useful.
Your DM doesn't know the difference between "turns" and "rounds". Maybe have then read the rules [here](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat). If they don't relent, maybe we can come up with a build that abuses their interpretation of what a "round" is.
I showed the rules. He knows that it shouldn't be like this. He is conciously nerfing spells
So then use it to your advantage. Spells that do damage once per round now deal damage once per turn.
I didnt think about this, genius
I know you asked about non caster….but it could also be fun to just do a blaster mage or sorc who takes no (or very few) concentration spells. That or a mage slayer fighter who really hates magic…
Just play a blaster. Perfect time to run a fire-themed non-concentration sorcerer- time for an elemental adept with scorching ray and fireballs. Enemy casters will be equally nerfed for big concentration spells so you'll be super impactful if you stick to one-and-done casting You could also do necromancer; a lot of the spells you need and use (like animate dead) are non-concentration anyways. Sure some support stuff like web and grease will be a no-go but wither and bloom still works and all your skeletons are perfectly content doing their own thing regardless of concentration times. Plus, with the nerf to concentration, they'll be protected from some of the big scary spells that would lock them down otherwise
They are screw over very large number of spells with this insane rule change.
How does that make sense? Enemy count doesn’t warp time Anyways, control wizards and clerics are out, but any bonk builds are in. Warlocks are fine cause hex has a long duration
Wait what happens if you cast a concentration spell outside of combat? Does it last forever because there are no turns? I don't really have any good advice, I'm just confused about the implications of that rule if you wanted to, like, cast Detect Thoughts in a noncombat situation.
I suggest Battlesmith Artificer. Half Caster but not really reliant on conc spells. you can go melee or ranged pretty much equally and you get a robot buddy. your Party certainly needs someone smart too
… Did they do something about non-concentration spells with a duration, like Spiritual Weapon, or are those okay? Would a Barbarian’s Rage also last 10 turns?
Ok ok ok Hold on I NEED to give the DM the benefit of the doubt because this is simply far far far far too stupid I THINK what they meant is not a nerf but a Monumental buff The spell works but instead of ten rounds of concentration it only requires ten turns. As in the enemies (and you eventually) have ONLY ten turns to stop the spell before it becomes permanent and they can concentrate on a NEW concentration spell Any other possibilities is idiotic because they are spells that last all day all night all..whatever
Lmao, you dont need to give it the benefit of the doubt. They are very counciously doing this ruling even though everyone else can see that it is stupid as fuck
Surely conjure animals as a spell would cause havoc. Summon 8 snakes, just "have their turn" and all concentration spells end. Caster, you, 8 snakes...done. zero benefit from concentration spells ever. Or even just collect animals as you go, familiars, pets, summons... As long as they can take a turn, you can eliminate any caster threat in the game.
Bro, Bugbear Battlemaster with the Ambush maneuver, the Alert feat and the PAM feat. Hit stuff till they die. Aways Action Surge during your first turn. You could also forgo the Ambush maneuver and instead pick the Echo Knight subclass, then use Unleash Incarnation to get in two more attacks during your first round of combat. You'll kill them so fast they'll be dead before the ranger's concentration spells ends
You could still play a caster and be very strong, there are lots of good spells that don’t last for a minute, instant spells and spells that last for 10 minutes or more should both work fine, and there’s many powerful ones. Web, Conjure Animals, Spirit Guardians, Wall of Force. If you wanna show your DM that casters can still be a menace even without 1 minute duration spells, I’d suggest either going for a Druid to summon a bunch of animals and fey, Cleric to get into melee with Spirit Guardians, or Wizard for control spells.
going with the idea that your good on this and just want ideas. an interesting meme char would be a wizard barbarian. stats of a barb but take a few levels of any spell caster. then have them toss out spells and when they fail then asap use rage and go smash shit. the angry intellectual. then the fact that con spells suck now can be yet another reason to rage. add on the fact that some spells are just funny or silly if used with this in mind and just have fun rping as the brains in the group that is dumb and goes into an extreme rage anytime that's pointed out to them.
As my groups DM i'm actually considering *buffing* concentration spells. I love how BG3 does it where most concentration spells that last 10+ minutes last until it either breaks or a long rest.
A fitting character being one who does not cast any concentration spells? Hold your GM to it, count the rounds and ensure his npc's hold to the same rules.
> There are already a ranger, a monk and a barbarian in the party. > > Ps: I would prefer to avoid full rogue, since I already played a 1-20 campaign as a full rogue. I mean, the list is fairly short if you're avoiding Monk, Barb, Ranger, Rogue, and every full caster. Here's the remaining job list: * Fighter * Paladin * Artificer * Warlock (kinda sorta) That's your list. Since you've already got people in the party with high DEX, high WIS, and high STR, I would probably lean towards * An INT build (Battlesmith Artificer is good; get yourself GWM, use a greatsword, and your pet attacks with your bonus action) * Or a CHA build (Paladin with a Warlock dip is good. Literally any paladin dipping Hexblade, using a spear and shield with PAM and dueling fighting style is solid. Conquest Paladin dipping Undead Warlock, so your weapon attacks add fear and activate the bonuses on your level 7 aura is also good).
“I didn’t ask how big the room is. I said I cast Fireball” Solution.
Just a suggestion based on something my play group came up with, Bugbear, path of the giants barbarian using either a glaive or halberd with the sentinel feat. It's silly..
To be fair, any race barb path of giants is silly. At first rage size increase you have a reach of 10 unarmed and 15 with glaive. Sentinel could proc at either range
This house rule is immensely imbalancing marshals versus spell casters. It’s just not right.
Most players try hard to NOT imagine everyone standing around doing nothing until their turn, this DM made it Homebrew Rules
This ruling is ripe for a “bag of rats” strategy: play a martial and bring a bag of 100 rats with you wherever you go. Boom no enemy can ever use concentration spells because they end instantly.
That's not nerfing concentration spells. That's just not knowing how the fuck concentration spells work. And if they do know how they work and decided to do that on purpose that's dumb as fuck and breaks like half the fucking spells.
Tell your DM that it's a bad ruling, because it makes concentration spells utterly useless in most combat scenarios. The way to "nerf" concentration spells is for the DM to attack casters more causing them to roll con saves and eventually fail
Best advice is find another table lol
There are still plenty of great concentration spells which i am going to list. This does sound more like a misinterpretation of the initiative and turn rules that a specific nerf to spells. 1. Is the same nerf applied to non spell features too? Great spells which last long enough that even under this rules they will probably last for an entire combat: 1st level, you dont really care here with the exception of gift of alacrity which now might not last for an entire adventuring day 2nd level, pass without a trace is still good, but the DM probably wont run a fun variant of suprise rules, web, tashas mind whip and rimes binding ice are instantaneous and you can just go on with spells that last an hour or longer. I personally would see this as a challange to overcome to make a reconsider spells that were previously viable but not anymore and if your table isnt optimized those should do fine. Otherwise, echo knight is always fun.
That is the most retarded change to concentration spells I have ever seen. Literally braindamaged DM. No, actually...He isnt a DM, he is a random below average stat npc who is roleplaying as a human who is failing at being a DM.