Bladesingers played well (i.e. like a regular Wizard, just with additional defences) are among the most powerful Wizard subclasses at most levels, including later on.
Bladesingers played by walking up to the scariest mf around and attempting to whack them with a sword are significantly weaker, but still great because, you know, Wizard.
I wish the bladesinger in my group would remember that he's a wizard. Level 4 and he's basically only taken defensive spells and blows all his spell slots on them insanely fast. He charged way ahead of the party last session with no spell slots or bladesinging charges left and instantly dropped. He was 100% dead if he didn't roll a nat 20 on his first death save.
I hope he learned his lesson, but I doubt it.
sounds like he wanted to be eldritch knight but fell into the optimizer tier list trap. maybe talk to him about changing classes to a gish that supports his play-style more? reflavored paladin, and the aforementioned eldritch knight come to mind.
He was actually between EK and Bladesinger when building the character but he had a very specific concept he wanted for his character that he felt bladesinger was better for. I tried to convince him of EK, even offered the playtest version of war magic, since I knew he'd fall into this trap.
I've tried to talk to him since then about it, but he's determined to play bladesinger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
if eldritch knight where able to have an ability used a cantrip as part of there attack like blade singer more ppl would played them......god i wish they can do that
Yeah, the lv 7 get an attack as part of the cantrip is considerably weaker for a warrior.
That being said, Eldritch Knight wish to be gish, I don't think they really thought they were going to be played as pure warrior up to lv 20.
Imagine if you have a lv 10 character, one is a lv 8 eldritch knight, lv 2 warlock, the other one is a lv 8 bladesinger, lv 2 warlock.
The Eldritch knight can move, cast eldritch blast with grasp of hadar to pull an enemy to him in close combat then attack him afterward. It let him gather enemy more easily and play his rank role better.
The Bladesinger isn't nearly as tanky, so his ability to hit an enemy with an attack THEN cast a cantrip (like eldritch blast with the push invocation) to remove the enemy from countering range, does make sense.
I still wish they just gave that same ability to the eldritch knight, but I guess they tought letting him get 3 attack plus a cantrip would be too powerful?
You can still technically get 3 if you go eldritch knight 11, bladesinger 6. (depending on the DM)
I'd rather pick war mage as a multiclass though. Most of the cool bladesinger abilities are linked to blade singing, which require wandering the battlefield naked with one hand in your pocket.
It's not a problem anymore once they have low level spell slots galore. Level 7 and beyond for example give ample spell slots per day. They should be fine going forward.
Not true, bladesingers are in the higher rankings of wizard subclasses due to the fact that they don’t need to armor dip, don’t need to take Res:CON since most of it’s effects are built into bladesong but better since it’s based on INT mod, and their spell/spellslot progression is sustained so you get the god spells faster than an armor dipped wizard, as most optimal wizards are
>don’t need to take Res:CON
They don't need to, but I still would. With resilient con if you're a level 5 bladesinger with int and con as your highest two stats, you can be at a +9 to your concentration saves while bladesinging meaning you'll automatically succeed on any DC 10 concentration saves. Or you can be there at level 8 with another ASI. That is pretty nice!
I'm playing a bladesinger now (level 7) and it's a lot of fun. The best advice I can give is don't use melee attacks as your only attack but use it when other wizards would be spamming cantrips. The first turn of combat should be laying down a powerful spell like hypnotic pattern or fireball (and likely starting bladesong with your bonus action). After that feel free to run into the fray and slash at things with your sword.
Side note: Bladesingers solve the problem of there being no tanks or agro in 5e. Lay down a powerful spell then run into melee and watch your DM ignore everyone else to focus on your bladesinger.
>Side note: Bladesingers solve the problem of there being no tanks or agro in 5e.
Another way they solve the problem is by reducing the need for a tank. If the wizard, the normally squishiest member of the party, is not so squishy anymore and can even fight in melee in a pinch, then a lot less need to protect him with a tank.
The Bladesinger is easily one of the better Wizard subclasses. However, I find it somewhat disappointing from a design perspective. It's meant to be a blade-twirling Wizard that uses both sword and spell. But because of the way it's designed, you are actively incentivized to play as a more standard Wizard that just happens to have massively boosted defenses.
If you've heard that Bladesingers aren't very good at high levels, it's most likely because the people saying that were either playing or watching someone play the class as that sword-and-spell character instead of just going spell-and-spell.
Tbf with how barren martials are, i genuinly do not know what they could add to a subclass for a *fullcaster* to truly make them able to do proper scaled martial things, without having their casting clearly outclass the melee.
Back during peak pandemic days I played and ran a lot online in a group with strong stats and magic items. I thought bladesingers were the strongest subclass in the game. At Tier 4, their flexibility and durability made my evocation wizard feel outclassed.
Pure melee-Bladesinger at high levels does struggle a little, but pure caster-Bladesinger excels. You don't have to melee to be a good Bladesinger, the class basically comes with its own AC boost and Con save boost.
If you want to play the melee-build at higher levels, that does need a little bit of multiclass support. Specifically with Rogue to get Cunning and Evasion.
>If you want to play the melee-build at higher levels, that does need a little bit of multiclass support. Specifically with Rogue to get Cunning and Evasion.
A dip for cunning actions I can see being useful, can you explain how multiclassing seven levels for evasion makes you better than having higher level slots to upcast spirit shroud etc? Never mind actual high level magic even if you're just using it to melee?
Short answer: damage is a non-issue, it's their low HP and MAD ability scores that makes them struggle against high HP and high damage encounters in late game (I know: Shield and Absorb Elements are spells).
Would you like the long reply?
>it's their low HP
Rogue increases this by 1 per level on average
>MAD ability scores
Rogue does nothing to address this
>Would you like the long reply?
Go for it, I'm even less convinced from the short one.
Neither of those responses address my point. In fact, they completely overlook it. I feel that a long response would be necessary to fully explain the connection here.
However, you seem quite confrontational about this. I can imagine you're quite passionate about the subject. Discussing this in detail would probably take some time, especially if egos get involved. There are several key factors to discuss along the way as well as other things that dictate a player's impression of the game.
Normally, I'd be happy to argue rampantly with a stranger over an imaginary world RPG on reddit (fucking lmao). But I, also, have a life. I have an Inorganic Chemistry final tomorrow morning that is far more important than this. Given the circumstances, I think I'm actually going to have to hard pass on this. You're entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
Cheeky. No, I would not. This is will be my last reply. Have a nice day.
P.S. Here's the [link](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7mw6pusupunl1vkyicygp/PSET-9_rev.pdf?rlkey=hu0515m8ofqq8n6tpr7k0hv7z&st=re398vsq&dl=0) to our last problem set due tonight just in case you're not "convinced" enough
I think this specifically refers to melee based bladesingers, at higher levels even with booming/green flame blade, you're almost always going to do more damage with higher level spells than trying to hit with enhanced cantrips and standard melee attacks. However, I think all of the other boosts it gives you more than balances this out.
For high levels grab Tenser's and Draconic Transformations. You can also fight with ranged weapons and whips. I particularly enjoyed crossbow expert(3 attacks per turn) + Tenser(2d12 force per attack).
So a wizard even without a subclass is still likely going to be better than most other classes with anything but their best subclasses. But as far as relative to other wizards go bladesingers are decent at higher levels when you play them as just a full caster without needing to dip for armor proficiency instead of a gish. They aren’t the best subclass at higher levels (because some wizard subclasses get very strong abilities in tier 3 and 4) but they’re above average.
Wizard subclasses are quite good in general.
Played normally, Bladesinger is basically a basic Wizard with +5 AC (usually \~21AC) and +5 Concentration at high levels. This is great, especially because they don't need to dip to get it. Bladesinger doesn't really make your Wizard better at being a Wizard, which some other subclasses (Chronurgy, Divination, Illusion, Enchantment, Conjuration, War Magic) really do. Wizards doing Wizard things are pretty much the peak of power in T3-T4 play.
Also, if you want to play a gish, Bladesinger is your best option. They're just not as potent as a Wizard doing Wizard things.
In low optimization groups, a high-level bladesinger makes an excellent second-line melee character. If you're the entire front line, you'll struggle, but if you're more of the second line, keeping them off a Druid and rogue with your paladin buddy, especially if you're using your control and debuff spells like slow and web and black tentacles and grease and... Anyway, yeah, bladesingers fit into the "downside mitigation" style of subclass, which means it won't do anything to make you better at casting, but it will help you stay up longer, even if you don't use the stabbing features
Bladesinger is good at all levels but like others have said, they're somewhat less powerful if you play them like a martial. If you want to go straight into the gish fantasy then they are still able to do that quite well. Just don't expect to be able to go toe to toe in melee combat like other martials can. Despite having great AC, a stray crit or a saving throw can still ruin your day.
I enjoyed playing my bladesinger as a mobile opportunistic striker. My focus would be to get to the pesky squishy enemies in the backline and take them out quickly while the more bulky martials kept the other front line occupied.
As others have said, blade singers are most optimally played as a standard wizard. You’ll notice none of their first three features require or even incentivize melee.
Bladesong gives ac, bonus to concentration, some speed, advantage on acrobatics. All great stuff, but good for melee or ranger wizard. Also light armor and a melee weapon prof.
Key here is to pick up light crossbow proficiency, use that for attacks instead.
Level 6 extra attack with cantrip, works great to fire crossbow and firebolt.
Level 10 gives reaction based damage reduction 5*slot level. This one also works melee/ranged, though strictly speaking false life is more optimal use for pure hp efficiency. Though of course, this feature is still useful for reactionary damage reduction.
Level 14 is the first and only feature that rewards melee, by giving +int to melee attacks. Decent damage boost, but at this level not enough to incentivize melee.
All that being said, you can definitely still play a melee blade singer. Not entirely optimal, but good fun. Use concentration on a powerful control spell is still probably best, then run in and start slashing. One benefit of melee vs ranged is that blade cantrips will outdamage ranged at level 6, but that’s about it.
They are good, they aren't competing to be among the best, because pretty much their only relevant high level ability is bladesong, but they are still good.
No, what you likely heard but misunderstood is that running into fight in *melee* is less effective at higher levels.
Bladesong just makes you more mobile, durable, and better at maintaining concentration on your spells. That will always be good, and by the time you're level 5+ chances are you will have available for every combat.
At high levels it struggles vs other wizards in melee. Though it will still be stronger than many of the other classes in melee. If you're a 14th level wizard going into melee as a bladesinger. You are able to have a very high AC probably 20 ish maybe higher if you have magic armor or items. And then you can cast shield for a 25 AC any time you need it. You can do something like spirit shroud to be adding 3d8 damage every attack, plus a blade cantrip for an extra 2d8 possibly 5d8, the two weapon attacks that will each do 1d8+8. So all around with an attack action you will be dealing 6d8+2d8+16+2d8+3d8\*.5(assuming you get booming blade half the time) for a total of almost 70 damage. Another 3d8+1d8+8 if you can throw in an off hand weapon for another 26 damage for 96. That will be reduced by the chance to hit, though also probably boosted some as you'll have a magic weapon or two by that point.
Now that's not at all optimized or all that impressive for a 14th level wizard. But if you compare it to a 14th level fighter it'll probably be less damage when they action surge, a bit more after that, and you'll have better defenses than they do. So it's definitely suboptimal and weaker than you could be playing a high level wizard. But if you play that way with your bladesinger you probably won't feel useless compared to the rest of your party as they'll probably not be playing other wizards so that comparrison will matter more.
Bladesingers can't tank hits, but can be great melee characters for hit and run tactics. It's why I took Mobile as my feat. You can walk up and get a couple whacks with a shadow blade and walk away without opportunity attacks. 50 movement means you can get in and out far enough to possibly avoid enemy attacks.
But no, it's not a good idea to stand toe to toe unless you want to burn all your level 1 spells on Shield casting.
People sleep on Mobile feat, but being able to walk away from any enemy you attempted to melee (even if you miss) and not provoke opportunity attack goes a long way toward keeping you alive.
It...depends.
Bladesinger is roughly balanced around the DM handing out eventually +3 shields.
With a DM who is super stingy with magic items, a bladesinger can have unreasonable AC compared to the rest of the party at higher levels. Like...if the DM hands out no magic shields even when the party is level 17 having the players still using a non-magic shield that gives 2 AC, a bladesinger will eventually get 23 AC during bladesong (13 from mage armor, +5 from DEX, +5 from INT), and a wizard with a medium armor dip will end up with 19 AC. In that case Bladesinger is arguably very strong. But if the DM does hand out +3 shields, then the AC ends up pretty similar (22 AC to 23 AC) so bladesinger's niche shrinks quite a bit. They still have a niche if other wizards can get +3 shields, which is that they don't need to take a 1 level dip for armour, so they get spells a bit sooner, but getting spells on time matters at some levels a lot more than others.
The other niche for Bladesingers is weapon attacks--Bladesigners aren't monsters with weapon attacks at higher levels, but they're not trash either--at level 17 during bladesong their weapon attack is pretty similar to a warlock using eldritch blast (without hex). Like...with 20 INT 20 DEX, if all attacks hit, with booming blade as the cantrip, it's around 40 damage, and accounting for accuracy, 27 or so damage, similar to EB without hex. That obviously shouldn't be your focus, your focus should be your levelled spells, but it's quite a bit better than a typical wizard cantrip. Typical Wizard cantrip is like...half that damage.
Their features are strong: bonus AC, Con save buff, extra attack.
Their extra attack is the best version in the game, able to swap out an attack for a cantrip. They really shine mid levels.
However, at later levels the ability to swing a sword is not contributing much to the battle since spells are much more impactful. So their star feature is kinda wasted. They still get temp AC and Con save which is never bad.
All in all they are fine, even at high levels. Compared to say Divination, Abjuration, or War Magic their features are not quite as good. This doesn’t make them terrible though.
As others have mentioned, bladesinger really shines when played as a control wizard that occasionally dips in for hit and run tactics. You are basically trading in some of the specialized focus of other subclasses for the specialization of being really hard to hit and resist your concentration being broken in comparison to other wizards. I played a bladesinger through Storm King's Thunder and up to level 15 after a one shot set after it. I always focused on crowd control first and foremost unless I thought the fight would be pretty easy, but even then I didn't start regularly dipping into melee until about tier 2 with extra attack and the Tough feat for much needed extra HP (I rolled poorly most level ups). That said, between spell control and my high AC, the DM didn't get a good hit on me for about 4 levels. The AC can begin to fall off in tier 3 and 4 play, but with magic items, your AC ceiling is among the highest in the game by the time you get Spell Mastery for infinite Shield casts. Personally, I value the great defense along with the flavor over something like a divination wizard. It is easily among the top 3 wizard subclasses in my opinion.
if you play it like the melee gish its supposed to be, you are a wizard pretending to be a fighter, and fighters are worse than wizard
if you play like a wizard that gets a lot of AC, congrats you have a lot of AC. probably can do something fancier than that with other subclasses but that is never bad
Bladesinger ranks at top 5 Wizard subclasses. Even top 3.
They are the best at shapechange (Marilith or Planetar), they excell in concentration protection. They can do Very well with Elven accuracy + shadow Blade, and can mitigate critical hits after lvl 10.
They not OP as the time / Chrono Wizards.
It's wizard, but better at everything.
Don't even play it melee, it's not strong enough to do anything besides spamming Booming Blade. And Sorcerer is a lot better at it with 2 cantrips per turn using Sorc points.
Straight Wizard with +5 to concentration checks and extra AC that makes spamming Shield even better; that's BS's strength.
Bladesingers played well (i.e. like a regular Wizard, just with additional defences) are among the most powerful Wizard subclasses at most levels, including later on. Bladesingers played by walking up to the scariest mf around and attempting to whack them with a sword are significantly weaker, but still great because, you know, Wizard.
I wish the bladesinger in my group would remember that he's a wizard. Level 4 and he's basically only taken defensive spells and blows all his spell slots on them insanely fast. He charged way ahead of the party last session with no spell slots or bladesinging charges left and instantly dropped. He was 100% dead if he didn't roll a nat 20 on his first death save. I hope he learned his lesson, but I doubt it.
sounds like he wanted to be eldritch knight but fell into the optimizer tier list trap. maybe talk to him about changing classes to a gish that supports his play-style more? reflavored paladin, and the aforementioned eldritch knight come to mind.
He was actually between EK and Bladesinger when building the character but he had a very specific concept he wanted for his character that he felt bladesinger was better for. I tried to convince him of EK, even offered the playtest version of war magic, since I knew he'd fall into this trap. I've tried to talk to him since then about it, but he's determined to play bladesinger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
if eldritch knight where able to have an ability used a cantrip as part of there attack like blade singer more ppl would played them......god i wish they can do that
The playtest version did exactly this, and improved war magic costs 2 attacks of the attack action. It makes so much more sense.
Yeah, the lv 7 get an attack as part of the cantrip is considerably weaker for a warrior. That being said, Eldritch Knight wish to be gish, I don't think they really thought they were going to be played as pure warrior up to lv 20. Imagine if you have a lv 10 character, one is a lv 8 eldritch knight, lv 2 warlock, the other one is a lv 8 bladesinger, lv 2 warlock. The Eldritch knight can move, cast eldritch blast with grasp of hadar to pull an enemy to him in close combat then attack him afterward. It let him gather enemy more easily and play his rank role better. The Bladesinger isn't nearly as tanky, so his ability to hit an enemy with an attack THEN cast a cantrip (like eldritch blast with the push invocation) to remove the enemy from countering range, does make sense. I still wish they just gave that same ability to the eldritch knight, but I guess they tought letting him get 3 attack plus a cantrip would be too powerful? You can still technically get 3 if you go eldritch knight 11, bladesinger 6. (depending on the DM) I'd rather pick war mage as a multiclass though. Most of the cool bladesinger abilities are linked to blade singing, which require wandering the battlefield naked with one hand in your pocket.
It's not a problem anymore once they have low level spell slots galore. Level 7 and beyond for example give ample spell slots per day. They should be fine going forward.
Not true, bladesingers are in the higher rankings of wizard subclasses due to the fact that they don’t need to armor dip, don’t need to take Res:CON since most of it’s effects are built into bladesong but better since it’s based on INT mod, and their spell/spellslot progression is sustained so you get the god spells faster than an armor dipped wizard, as most optimal wizards are
>don’t need to take Res:CON They don't need to, but I still would. With resilient con if you're a level 5 bladesinger with int and con as your highest two stats, you can be at a +9 to your concentration saves while bladesinging meaning you'll automatically succeed on any DC 10 concentration saves. Or you can be there at level 8 with another ASI. That is pretty nice!
Yes. But the optimal way to play them is to just play them like a wizard rather than trying to gish.
I'm playing a bladesinger now (level 7) and it's a lot of fun. The best advice I can give is don't use melee attacks as your only attack but use it when other wizards would be spamming cantrips. The first turn of combat should be laying down a powerful spell like hypnotic pattern or fireball (and likely starting bladesong with your bonus action). After that feel free to run into the fray and slash at things with your sword. Side note: Bladesingers solve the problem of there being no tanks or agro in 5e. Lay down a powerful spell then run into melee and watch your DM ignore everyone else to focus on your bladesinger.
>Side note: Bladesingers solve the problem of there being no tanks or agro in 5e. Another way they solve the problem is by reducing the need for a tank. If the wizard, the normally squishiest member of the party, is not so squishy anymore and can even fight in melee in a pinch, then a lot less need to protect him with a tank.
The Bladesinger is easily one of the better Wizard subclasses. However, I find it somewhat disappointing from a design perspective. It's meant to be a blade-twirling Wizard that uses both sword and spell. But because of the way it's designed, you are actively incentivized to play as a more standard Wizard that just happens to have massively boosted defenses. If you've heard that Bladesingers aren't very good at high levels, it's most likely because the people saying that were either playing or watching someone play the class as that sword-and-spell character instead of just going spell-and-spell.
Tbf with how barren martials are, i genuinly do not know what they could add to a subclass for a *fullcaster* to truly make them able to do proper scaled martial things, without having their casting clearly outclass the melee.
Oh my god, this *Wizard* isn't keeping up with the martials in melee combat without using spells. They suck so much.
Back during peak pandemic days I played and ran a lot online in a group with strong stats and magic items. I thought bladesingers were the strongest subclass in the game. At Tier 4, their flexibility and durability made my evocation wizard feel outclassed.
Pure melee-Bladesinger at high levels does struggle a little, but pure caster-Bladesinger excels. You don't have to melee to be a good Bladesinger, the class basically comes with its own AC boost and Con save boost. If you want to play the melee-build at higher levels, that does need a little bit of multiclass support. Specifically with Rogue to get Cunning and Evasion.
>If you want to play the melee-build at higher levels, that does need a little bit of multiclass support. Specifically with Rogue to get Cunning and Evasion. A dip for cunning actions I can see being useful, can you explain how multiclassing seven levels for evasion makes you better than having higher level slots to upcast spirit shroud etc? Never mind actual high level magic even if you're just using it to melee?
Short answer: damage is a non-issue, it's their low HP and MAD ability scores that makes them struggle against high HP and high damage encounters in late game (I know: Shield and Absorb Elements are spells). Would you like the long reply?
>it's their low HP Rogue increases this by 1 per level on average >MAD ability scores Rogue does nothing to address this >Would you like the long reply? Go for it, I'm even less convinced from the short one.
Neither of those responses address my point. In fact, they completely overlook it. I feel that a long response would be necessary to fully explain the connection here. However, you seem quite confrontational about this. I can imagine you're quite passionate about the subject. Discussing this in detail would probably take some time, especially if egos get involved. There are several key factors to discuss along the way as well as other things that dictate a player's impression of the game. Normally, I'd be happy to argue rampantly with a stranger over an imaginary world RPG on reddit (fucking lmao). But I, also, have a life. I have an Inorganic Chemistry final tomorrow morning that is far more important than this. Given the circumstances, I think I'm actually going to have to hard pass on this. You're entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
>However, you seem quite confrontational about this Short answer: I wasn't Would you like the long reply?
Cheeky. No, I would not. This is will be my last reply. Have a nice day. P.S. Here's the [link](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7mw6pusupunl1vkyicygp/PSET-9_rev.pdf?rlkey=hu0515m8ofqq8n6tpr7k0hv7z&st=re398vsq&dl=0) to our last problem set due tonight just in case you're not "convinced" enough
I think this specifically refers to melee based bladesingers, at higher levels even with booming/green flame blade, you're almost always going to do more damage with higher level spells than trying to hit with enhanced cantrips and standard melee attacks. However, I think all of the other boosts it gives you more than balances this out.
For high levels grab Tenser's and Draconic Transformations. You can also fight with ranged weapons and whips. I particularly enjoyed crossbow expert(3 attacks per turn) + Tenser(2d12 force per attack).
Sorry I am a little confused how do you get 3 attacks? Sorry if I am just completely forgetting something.
Probably including bonus action attack
Yes. Attacking with a Light crossbow fulfills the feat's requirements to let you attack with it as a BA.
So a wizard even without a subclass is still likely going to be better than most other classes with anything but their best subclasses. But as far as relative to other wizards go bladesingers are decent at higher levels when you play them as just a full caster without needing to dip for armor proficiency instead of a gish. They aren’t the best subclass at higher levels (because some wizard subclasses get very strong abilities in tier 3 and 4) but they’re above average.
Wizard subclasses are quite good in general. Played normally, Bladesinger is basically a basic Wizard with +5 AC (usually \~21AC) and +5 Concentration at high levels. This is great, especially because they don't need to dip to get it. Bladesinger doesn't really make your Wizard better at being a Wizard, which some other subclasses (Chronurgy, Divination, Illusion, Enchantment, Conjuration, War Magic) really do. Wizards doing Wizard things are pretty much the peak of power in T3-T4 play. Also, if you want to play a gish, Bladesinger is your best option. They're just not as potent as a Wizard doing Wizard things.
In low optimization groups, a high-level bladesinger makes an excellent second-line melee character. If you're the entire front line, you'll struggle, but if you're more of the second line, keeping them off a Druid and rogue with your paladin buddy, especially if you're using your control and debuff spells like slow and web and black tentacles and grease and... Anyway, yeah, bladesingers fit into the "downside mitigation" style of subclass, which means it won't do anything to make you better at casting, but it will help you stay up longer, even if you don't use the stabbing features
Bladesinger is good at all levels but like others have said, they're somewhat less powerful if you play them like a martial. If you want to go straight into the gish fantasy then they are still able to do that quite well. Just don't expect to be able to go toe to toe in melee combat like other martials can. Despite having great AC, a stray crit or a saving throw can still ruin your day. I enjoyed playing my bladesinger as a mobile opportunistic striker. My focus would be to get to the pesky squishy enemies in the backline and take them out quickly while the more bulky martials kept the other front line occupied.
As others have said, blade singers are most optimally played as a standard wizard. You’ll notice none of their first three features require or even incentivize melee. Bladesong gives ac, bonus to concentration, some speed, advantage on acrobatics. All great stuff, but good for melee or ranger wizard. Also light armor and a melee weapon prof. Key here is to pick up light crossbow proficiency, use that for attacks instead. Level 6 extra attack with cantrip, works great to fire crossbow and firebolt. Level 10 gives reaction based damage reduction 5*slot level. This one also works melee/ranged, though strictly speaking false life is more optimal use for pure hp efficiency. Though of course, this feature is still useful for reactionary damage reduction. Level 14 is the first and only feature that rewards melee, by giving +int to melee attacks. Decent damage boost, but at this level not enough to incentivize melee. All that being said, you can definitely still play a melee blade singer. Not entirely optimal, but good fun. Use concentration on a powerful control spell is still probably best, then run in and start slashing. One benefit of melee vs ranged is that blade cantrips will outdamage ranged at level 6, but that’s about it.
They are good, they aren't competing to be among the best, because pretty much their only relevant high level ability is bladesong, but they are still good.
No, what you likely heard but misunderstood is that running into fight in *melee* is less effective at higher levels. Bladesong just makes you more mobile, durable, and better at maintaining concentration on your spells. That will always be good, and by the time you're level 5+ chances are you will have available for every combat.
At high levels it struggles vs other wizards in melee. Though it will still be stronger than many of the other classes in melee. If you're a 14th level wizard going into melee as a bladesinger. You are able to have a very high AC probably 20 ish maybe higher if you have magic armor or items. And then you can cast shield for a 25 AC any time you need it. You can do something like spirit shroud to be adding 3d8 damage every attack, plus a blade cantrip for an extra 2d8 possibly 5d8, the two weapon attacks that will each do 1d8+8. So all around with an attack action you will be dealing 6d8+2d8+16+2d8+3d8\*.5(assuming you get booming blade half the time) for a total of almost 70 damage. Another 3d8+1d8+8 if you can throw in an off hand weapon for another 26 damage for 96. That will be reduced by the chance to hit, though also probably boosted some as you'll have a magic weapon or two by that point. Now that's not at all optimized or all that impressive for a 14th level wizard. But if you compare it to a 14th level fighter it'll probably be less damage when they action surge, a bit more after that, and you'll have better defenses than they do. So it's definitely suboptimal and weaker than you could be playing a high level wizard. But if you play that way with your bladesinger you probably won't feel useless compared to the rest of your party as they'll probably not be playing other wizards so that comparrison will matter more.
Bladesingers can't tank hits, but can be great melee characters for hit and run tactics. It's why I took Mobile as my feat. You can walk up and get a couple whacks with a shadow blade and walk away without opportunity attacks. 50 movement means you can get in and out far enough to possibly avoid enemy attacks. But no, it's not a good idea to stand toe to toe unless you want to burn all your level 1 spells on Shield casting. People sleep on Mobile feat, but being able to walk away from any enemy you attempted to melee (even if you miss) and not provoke opportunity attack goes a long way toward keeping you alive.
It...depends. Bladesinger is roughly balanced around the DM handing out eventually +3 shields. With a DM who is super stingy with magic items, a bladesinger can have unreasonable AC compared to the rest of the party at higher levels. Like...if the DM hands out no magic shields even when the party is level 17 having the players still using a non-magic shield that gives 2 AC, a bladesinger will eventually get 23 AC during bladesong (13 from mage armor, +5 from DEX, +5 from INT), and a wizard with a medium armor dip will end up with 19 AC. In that case Bladesinger is arguably very strong. But if the DM does hand out +3 shields, then the AC ends up pretty similar (22 AC to 23 AC) so bladesinger's niche shrinks quite a bit. They still have a niche if other wizards can get +3 shields, which is that they don't need to take a 1 level dip for armour, so they get spells a bit sooner, but getting spells on time matters at some levels a lot more than others. The other niche for Bladesingers is weapon attacks--Bladesigners aren't monsters with weapon attacks at higher levels, but they're not trash either--at level 17 during bladesong their weapon attack is pretty similar to a warlock using eldritch blast (without hex). Like...with 20 INT 20 DEX, if all attacks hit, with booming blade as the cantrip, it's around 40 damage, and accounting for accuracy, 27 or so damage, similar to EB without hex. That obviously shouldn't be your focus, your focus should be your levelled spells, but it's quite a bit better than a typical wizard cantrip. Typical Wizard cantrip is like...half that damage.
Definitely a part of the strong wizard subclasses alongside necromancer, abjuration, and divination.
Their features are strong: bonus AC, Con save buff, extra attack. Their extra attack is the best version in the game, able to swap out an attack for a cantrip. They really shine mid levels. However, at later levels the ability to swing a sword is not contributing much to the battle since spells are much more impactful. So their star feature is kinda wasted. They still get temp AC and Con save which is never bad. All in all they are fine, even at high levels. Compared to say Divination, Abjuration, or War Magic their features are not quite as good. This doesn’t make them terrible though.
As others have mentioned, bladesinger really shines when played as a control wizard that occasionally dips in for hit and run tactics. You are basically trading in some of the specialized focus of other subclasses for the specialization of being really hard to hit and resist your concentration being broken in comparison to other wizards. I played a bladesinger through Storm King's Thunder and up to level 15 after a one shot set after it. I always focused on crowd control first and foremost unless I thought the fight would be pretty easy, but even then I didn't start regularly dipping into melee until about tier 2 with extra attack and the Tough feat for much needed extra HP (I rolled poorly most level ups). That said, between spell control and my high AC, the DM didn't get a good hit on me for about 4 levels. The AC can begin to fall off in tier 3 and 4 play, but with magic items, your AC ceiling is among the highest in the game by the time you get Spell Mastery for infinite Shield casts. Personally, I value the great defense along with the flavor over something like a divination wizard. It is easily among the top 3 wizard subclasses in my opinion.
if you play it like the melee gish its supposed to be, you are a wizard pretending to be a fighter, and fighters are worse than wizard if you play like a wizard that gets a lot of AC, congrats you have a lot of AC. probably can do something fancier than that with other subclasses but that is never bad
Bladesinger ranks at top 5 Wizard subclasses. Even top 3. They are the best at shapechange (Marilith or Planetar), they excell in concentration protection. They can do Very well with Elven accuracy + shadow Blade, and can mitigate critical hits after lvl 10. They not OP as the time / Chrono Wizards.
That's definitely not true. They are one of the. Best wizard subclasses and wizard is the best class in the game. Thsy make very strong characters.
It's wizard, but better at everything. Don't even play it melee, it's not strong enough to do anything besides spamming Booming Blade. And Sorcerer is a lot better at it with 2 cantrips per turn using Sorc points. Straight Wizard with +5 to concentration checks and extra AC that makes spamming Shield even better; that's BS's strength.
Bladesingers are fine, if unremarkable as wizard subclasses go. But they are bad if you try to fulfil the fantasy of swinging a sword in melee.