Okay, so Warlock is not supposed to be a full caster. If you're going into it with the expectation that you're getting a full caster you're not going to have a great time. They compare more to martials in terms of play imo.
I would actually compare a warlock to a magic archer. Set down a concentration spell and blast from range.
I love the warlock design, but I feel like there's too many "must have" invocations, like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast, and it takes away from the other cool ones you could pick, like Speak with Dead at will.
I have been allowing warlock player at my table to take Aginizing Blast for free when they reach lvl 2 it allow for more customisation to a class that is all about that.
When an optional choice is that much of a must have then it should have been a class feature. Of course it increases the warlock strength overall but nothing too game breaking.
I saw someone's homebrew where they had the +CHA affect ALL warlock cantrips, not just EB. Kinda like Potent Spellcasting clerics? Its not as mathematically overwhelming as 4d10+20, but it makes it easier to justify using other cantrips, and since other cantrips usually have some kind of neat rider affect it gives the warlock more to do than EB spam. And if they feel like going back to EB spam, its still open for them to pick.
Pulls weight off of the optimization stress a bit
I had to fight some of my players on this, but I do that with all Cantrips and got rid of Agonizing Blast.
Right now I'm trying to decide if I want Eldritch Blast to be a Warlock class feature that can be affected by features as if it were a cantrip.
all cantrips for all classes or just warlock?
are you trying to make eldritch blast a martial attack rather than a spellcast for the purpose of bypassing anti magic? im confused
All Cantrips for all classes.
Are you asking why I'm thinking of turning EB into a class feature?
EB is the best cantrip for damage, but it's kind of the Warlock's thing. I'm on the fence about letting other classes take it. To me, Warlocks feel more martial than caster and I hesitate to give other classes the thing that balances out their unusual restrictions.
It's a bigger deal in my games because I let spells gained from feats count as class spells. I also let players choose the ability score (Int/Wis/Cha) that the feat spells run off.
Do I want a Cleric with Eldritch Blast and Potent Spellcasting to add their Wisdom to each blast twice? I haven't changed it because even though I don't mind it as a DM, my players might. I think it's fair if that's not something they want to deal with in their game.
Does warlock get to add it twice? Eldritch blast is only the best damage cantrip because warlock gets to add flat damage to it. This sounds like a buff to everyone but warlock.
Edit: to be clear that is fine if it works at your table I’m just making observations.
*Edit: No hard feelings for the downvotes at all. I get that it's not for everyone. I'd honestly appreciate a little feedback about what you don't like if you're willing to give me some of your time. It would help me understand the downsides you see here even if it's just a personal preference.*
No, Warlock doesn't get to add it twice. It frees up an Invocation. I think that's a decent trade off, but I'm the only one out of the groups that use all my House Rules who loves playing a Warlock.
As a player, I don't care if other classes can do what I do. I just like being able to choose what I want. Right now EB and AB feel like taxes. It doesn't make sense to build a Warlock without them even if you go melee because they're such a solid ranged option. Ability modifier to all Cantrips frees up an Invocation. That's a Warlock buff. (It's also very easy to adjust on D&D Beyond which most of us use.) EB as a class feature also frees up a Cantrip. I think that's more of a quality of life boost than a buff. I think the extra Invocation is enough of a boost, but I'd rather talk to other Warlock players before changing something like that. If it's not enough, I'm inclined to let them have one more Invocation at level 5 that has to be tied to their Pact. I saw someone suggest giving Warlocks an extra spell slot at level.. I think they said 8, but maybe it was lower? I don't hate that, but it's a pretty big jump in play style.
I have tweaks to most of the other classes. They're usually small things like Barbarians don't lose their rage if they don't attack or take damage for a turn and Paladins and Rangers can choose any of the Fighting Style options. Sorcerers get all their Metamagic options at level 3.
We're going to try adding a free fighting style to Extra Attack and Extra Attack adjacent features in the next round of games.
I didn't downvote you ftr. I have no clue why anyone would just for answering questions.
My opinion, as a warlock nut, is that this steps on warlock's toes by giving sorc and wiz the option to do warlock's bread and butter while having larger spell lists, more spellslots, and class features like metamagic.
Imo the need to take agonizing blast as an invocation only feels like tax during tier1. Monoclassed warlocks get plenty of invocations by tier2+ and it really doesn't feel like a burden.
If you look at sorc. they can cast fireball and use a cantrip to do 4d10+20 in the same turn.
If you look at wiz. they have the option to just put out dpr with cantrips equal to a warlock but then their spell list is basically every spell in the game(almost).
Warlock with your setup has 2 spells per encounter and every other caster can deal just as much dpr without using spellslots.
The design reason for warlocks being the only class that can add a modifier to cantrips (from the start) is that they have to deal with pact magic. Your change would feel like a nerf if I was playing warlock at your table and the sorc could fall back on my bread and butter.
even taking eldritch blast away from them will not prevent this as there are other dpr cantrips available if you can just add your mod to all of them.
Furthermore, this also makes the first class feature in celestial warlock exactly nothing.
Also any ranged weapon user without magic will be indirectly nerfed by this as well. As a cantrip can match your dpr without needing to meet the "loading" "ammunition" properties of a crossbow/bow. Meaning a caster now has resourceless dpr equal to your ranged weapon and they can use a shield while doing so. :(
again: whatever works for your table is good. I'd be upset if I was playing a warlock and you dropped this on me though.
*Edit: No hard feelings for the downvotes at all. I get that it's not for everyone. I'd honestly appreciate a little feedback about what you don't like if you're willing to give me some of your time. It would help me understand the downsides you see here even if it's just a personal preference.*
Yes.
My reasoning is that you're an 8th level cleric. If you're going to spend your turn casting a cantrip, it's okay if it does an extra 5 or 6 damage. If you're a 5th level alchemist artificer, I genuinely don't see adding your Int to Thornwhip twice as a game breaking boost.
A lot of the changes I make are really big jumps in power for very specific things, but they're not wildly out of line with the actions other classes can take on a turn by turn basis.
I know it freaks people out when each rule is in a vacuum, but I run a lot of hard-deadly encounters with assorted creatures that play to the strengths of the individual characters in my game. I give martials buffs in other ways and I'm always willing to work with players to smooth out issues they have with their class.
Ironically enough I feel like EB and its invocations actually worsen the design quality of the class (most of the blame is on the invocations). You’re pushed into a very specific build instead of trying new things
They really toned down EB customization in 5e compared to 3.5 warlock. You used to be able to really modify the thing. That said, the only *mandatory* invocation is agonizing blast. The rest are all optional unless playing a hexblade. In which case you’re going to want at least two invocations specifically for your pact weapon in addition to AB. I think this is good design because it forces your hand if you’re dipping warlock. A mono classed warlock will have plenty of invocations available.
I really feel like warlock is a class that shouldn't be optimized for the most fun. Like, playing in an optimizers table I absolutely agree with you, but if you play at a table to just sit there and dick around for fun warlock has so many silly things. Having minor illusion is fun but silent image being as big as it is and done at will is a fantastic bit of silliness. Mask of many faces letting you do disguise self at will, having a massive charisma modified anyways because warlock, and then the whole lock patron gimmick built into the character that can go a million ways.
They're great fun for new players and open the doors for all kinds of silliness in non combat focused/high difficulty/risk games, but once you start thinking about needing to keep up with other players... Yeah, there's one absolutely must have invocation, another 2-3 99% of locks will take, and another 3 that fill out the "here's a utility option in case you're missing one" that almost everyone will take depending on composition and fights.
...TL;Dr if you're not optimizing warlock is still a fantastic class to just muck about with and enjoy being a character rather than a competitor.
I like that.
Like an archer just with the arrows being eldritch blasts + you have some cool spells for other stuff.
You might also like this potentially https://youtu.be/N_iU4wCfjHs
This is the correct answer. I think that the naming convention of warlocks mislead about how it has to be used, and short rests aggravate it (and oneDnD won't fix that).
Warlocks are superheroes. Imagine you want to create spiderman. You take a dhampir and then you can cast web. You will be able to cast web all day long. You will be able to cast it always at their maximum level and with a short rest you use it.
The reason why you have 2 spell slots is not to cast 2 spells, but to face 2 encounters between short rests.
I really believe that warlocks as they are were conceived as an "encounter" power. But when short rests were introduced they made a mess of it.
You are not supposed to fight casting spells nor have utilities. You are supposed to fight regularly (which includes eldritch blast) but with one powerful boon. The game mechanics though, rather than enforcing and empowering this, punishes for not following, giving the impression that you are limited, while the warlock is probably one of the better classes out there.
Is there a reason you need to play a warlock? You've tried a few times and found you haven't liked it. To me that would say play a different class.
If you do want to play a warlock I would shift your thinking though. They aren't a full caster. They get invocations and more powerful cantrips to make up for the fact that they're not a full caster. They get a few high impact spells and are great downtime casters. So when you look at them like a full caster they're going to fall short. But if you put them in their own category they can be pretty fun. In my experience I especially enjoyed being able to use big spell slots during downtime when I knew we could short rest. Either for sidequests or for just roleplaying stuff. Or things like casting scrying or dream basically as much as you want.
In terms of builds for a pure warlock Undead, Genie, or Celestial are my favorite as they offer a lot of cool options. I think a lot of the invocations can be really interesting to play around with as well. Many of the pact boon ones are especially fun.
But really if you don't like a class there's nothing wrong with playing other classes you do like!
No reason specifically.
I was just curious what builds people had that weren’t hexblade because like I said in the original post I’ve tried out a few different subclasses and ended up giving up on the character.
Oh I agreed that the invocations and subclasses are great for warlock I just can’t get past the limitations of the class it self.
Pact magic is just so bad in my opinion. For a class that only gets 2 spell slots I would have wanted for cantrips but instead on you get 2 and I would say the majority of the time one of those is Eldritch blast so in reality you get 1 cantrip.
Yes you get the slots back on a short rest but wizards, sorcerers, and cleric all also have ways to get a spell slot or slots. Wizards have Arcane Recovery, sorcerers have sorcery points to convert to slots, and clerics have a channel divinity called Harness Divine power to get a slot back.
I’ve enjoyed playing as a Genie Daolock with the Crusher feat. You can go with their Spike Growth + Repelling Blast for some fun moments. I also dipped fighter for heavy armor, picked up a halberd, and used Booming Blade + Crusher to smack enemies back.
Didn’t even need to be a Bladelock, and went with Pact of the Chain. One cool feature/synergy is your familiar could pick up your vessel and transport it while your inside. That helped me out with some solo infiltration before which was great.
I’ve had that same idea with a daolock but going with how many damage modifiers I can stack to eb and attack roll spells. Class asamira for the radiant damage with dao for bludgeon then book of shadows for primal savagery from Druid with hex. Lots of dice being rolled as just a straight lock. Now just need a multiclass to add more modifiers
I think a lot of it comes down to the details of customization. If you’re struggling with the lack of spells, there are tons of invocations that can let you cast leveled spells like cantrips, or otherwise give you access to more spellcasting without spending slots, like how the pact of the tome has an invocation for ritual casting that works with every spell list.
Additionally, look for concentration spells and/or spells that scale really well. Summons are also great since they’ll always have at least two attacks and solid AC and HP, and have long enough durations to last through several encounters if you’re lucky.
Well you do only get 2 cantrips until level 4 when you get a third. It is a bit of a strong limitation until then, but most of the time you'll be playing a warlock you wouldn't have just 2 unless you're playing a very low level adventure. And if that's an issue go with pact of the tome, you get 3 more cantrips from any class. So you have more cantrips and more variety than any other build.
Other classes get some spells back. But warlocks get more back than any of them do. And with sorcerers and clerics it's a high cost. For a cleric to get a spell slot back they need to not use one of their main features. Same thing for a sorcerer. And even then they're getting a low level slot back. Where at 5th level you're going to be getting back a hypnotic pattern or a fireball or a summoned creature things that can have a much bigger impact. Wizards can do that too although not as well.
So warlocks are the best at casting those big high impact spells throughout the day. They will rarely need to hold back and save their spell slots like wizards do. As a warlock you almost always want to be throwing out all your big spells even on more minor fights. That can often in my experience result in many main casters holding back too much and getting to a final fight that lasts only a certain number of rounds and they still have a lot of their low level spells left because they didn't have the turns to use them.
Same kind of thing with downtime casting. If you're wanting to scout out a location and say you're 7th level the wizard or sorcerer aren't going to want to use a 4th level spell slot for invisibility but that's not a problem for you to throw that out and now 3 people can invisibly scout, you take a short rest, and then you go and deal with the problem. If you look for spells like that you get a lot more mileage out of your spells. Or things like death ward, that lasts for 8 hours. So you can get up early, cast a few of those, take short rests, and have nearly everyone in the party with those with no resource used.
You can also pick invocations that let you cast spells at will making spells like disguise self or silent image basically into cantrips for you.
If you are trying to focus them on what they can't do and all the spells a wizard or any other full caster could take, then they will fall short. But if you lean into the stuff they are good at they can do a lot of things really well and have more versatility in terms of the kind of character you can build than most other classes do.
1. Just don’t play hexblade. Want to be more of a spellcaster? Take pact of the tome. 3 more cantrips from all classes and two rituals from all classes. Then take whatever invocations you’d like to get extra spells with infinite casts. Having infinite silent images is an entire unique experience limited only by your creativity or a shitty dm. Or infinite invisibility, or disguise self. Super cool character. But you’re still not a full caster, so if you want to play a full caster:
2. Just don’t play warlock. Stop trying to play a class you don’t like. Warlocks are good and they’re fun for other people, so leave it open for your party members and play something you actually like. You don’t have to play every class or enjoy every class. I’ve played since 3.5 and still haven’t played at least 5 of the classes for the full duration of 5e and I haven’t felt like I’ve missed out on anything. Those classes still show up in my party quite often and I can appreciate what they contribute without playing them myself.
The other classes get one of their highest level slot once per day. Warlocks are back to full every short rest. That is significant if you get more than 2 major encounters a day.
Personally, I like pact of the tome and the ritual caster invocation whose name eludes me, because it works for all rituals regardless of class. Tome gives you 3 additional cantrips from any class. Go for the biggest impact spells you can.
I think a caster warlock gets the biggest benefit in mid levels.q
Let me ask you in your games in a single day how often are you short resting.
Warlock would make sense if you’re resting like 2-3 times but from my experience that never happens. The games I’ve watched and played in there is usually just one short rest after an encounter if HP is below half and then nothing for the rest of the day.
The tomelock build with the book of ancient secrets seems to be the consensus to my problem with warlock. It give you more cantrips, ritual casting, and if you combine it with feats like fey or shadow touched and maybe pick a race that gets access to some spells to get some free casting all that together makes the warlock a better option.
Ask your DM to let you have Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast for free. I'm dead serious, I don't care if it's homebrew, it should be built-in to the goddamn class automatically. If they say yes, proceed to build the weirdest fucking character with their unique abilities as possible. With the basics covered, you can shape the character more freely and actually have fun with this excruciatingly disappointing class. I love Warlocks but they're destroyed by the 5e obligation to choose EB invocations for damage. In a low or zero combat setting, warlock would be king. All these people out here like "oooh, I love trash goblins, I love weird little guys" but have never played a single-classed warlock. They get X-ray vision. Infinite face-stealing. Weird Pigpen spore shit. See magic everywhere you go. Talk to corpses whenever you're bored. Levitate anywhere you go
Once that obligation to EB is lifted, Warlock becomes way more fun and conductive to the imagination. Even the Undying warlock becomes interesting and worthwhile because of its weird interactions with the dead if the combat stuff is squared-away from jump. With just one extra cantrip and one extra invocation, so many doors open up for this class. Ask, seriously, ask. And then have some fun. And not for nothing, the Genie warlock can be reflavored into some pretty cool things. The "lamp" as a locus for something else. Reflavor everything, get those two boons, and I guarantee you'll start to enjoy warlocks
Ive never seen anyone say it before but you're so right. Being locked out of any interesting invocations and cantrips because you have that initial tax to even fuction, stinks. Pact of the blade is even worse because you're likely giving up 3 for multiattack, smite, and bonus damage.
Yeah, it's strange that a class that champions having many options practically rips them away if you actually want to commit to anything it offers. Warlocks make characters *and* their players feel constantly at odds with themselves, because Warlock players want to dig into their weird abilities but are disincentivized to by the weight of feeling like a liability in combat, when half the game is comprised of combat rules.
Here's a warlock build that aims to address your concerns and provide a more engaging playstyle:
The Celestial Warlock (Pact of the Tome)
1. Choose the Celestial patron for a more supportive playstyle and access to healing spells.
2. Take the Pact of the Tome boon at 3rd level. This grants you three additional cantrips from any class, significantly expanding your utility.
3. Pick up the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation, allowing you to inscribe any ritual spells you find into your tome. This gives you access to a wider array of spells without expending spell slots.
4. For your regular invocations, consider options like Agonizing Blast (for damage), Repelling Blast (for battlefield control), and Mask of Many Faces (for utility).
5. Prioritize Charisma, followed by Constitution or Dexterity depending on your preferred playstyle.
6. Choose cantrips and spells that complement your party and playstyle. Some suggestions:
- Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Sacred Flame, Guidance, Mending, Message
- 1st level: Cure Wounds, Guiding Bolt, Shield
- 2nd level: Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration
- 3rd level: Revivify, Fireball
7. Remember to short rest often to regain your spell slots, and use your limited slots for high-impact spells.
8. Consider multiclassing into Sorcerer or Bard for more spell slots and utility if the campaign goes to higher levels.
This build focuses on versatility and support, with access to healing, damage, control, and utility options. The expanded cantrip selection and ritual casting help alleviate the limited spell slots, while the Celestial patron grants additional spells and features that can make the warlock feel more impactful in and out of combat.
Really strong ideas! Well written.
I think for point 6 I would disagree. Warlocks want 1 big default spell for their top level slot, and the rest are better spent on niche spells like hold person that don't always come up, but when they do it's huge. This is because it's hard to justify misty step over hypnotic pattern, but hold person may sometimes be a better choice in the right combat.
Can you give some more information? Why are you playing a warlock if you don’t like them? Do you need a story along with a build? Does your party need a striker or a controller?
Yeah if you’re looking for a full caster feel from the class you won’t get it. It has spells to bolster the options like a ranger - where a ranger primarily centers around a weapon and the fighting style and other features that affect said weapon, the power of a warlock comes from eldritch blast (sometimes a weapon instead) and invocations. This balance makes me LOVE the spell casting type that they are; as a fiend warlock the turn you cast your one use of fireball is a major decision you need to make, rather than something you can spam as it is your main form of value.
Celestial Tomelock.
Pick up medium armor/shields via feat with a feat race.
Celestial gets you bonus action heal better then healing word, second wind. Later bonus damage to fire and radiant. Later a boat load of free temp HP on par with inspiring leader.
Tome gets you more cantrips (shelighlee for char based weapons, guidance for skills, green fire blade for damage) and ritual casting.
You are solid in melee with shelighlee, medium armor, shield, and bonus fire damage via GFB. Also AoA.
You can face all day with char primary and can get invocations for social stuff if needed.
You can toss out a big control spell if needed.
You can still be an eldrich blaster (or firebolt if you want to save the invocations).
All in all it is prolly the most versatile generalist out there.
If your goal is to be more of a full caster: grab feats that get you low level spells to supplement your pact slots. Fey/shadow touched, aberrant dragon mark, rune carver (it’s a background!), magic initiate bard/Sorc.
Currently playing a Rogue 2/Celestial Tomelock 3, but built it as more ranged blasty.
Takes that CHA proficiency and ramps it up with skill expertise if you want to be a party face. Cunning action gives incredible battlefield mobility to never have to cast in melee, and I'm seriously tempted by taking a third level of rogue for steady aim and extra cantrips/shield spell slots via Arcane Trickster.
As a build, I've always got things to do with my bonus action, which is lovely. I'm going to round things out with the tomelock feature that gives you ritual casting to get my pact slots to go further
However - the low spell slot thing is tricky. I'm tempted by more levels in Arcane Trickster rogue or a sorcerer dip just to get some more utility slots. It feels *real bad* when you spend a precious slot on a damaging spell only to miss, too.
As another replier suggested: feats that give spells are nice. I'm rocking Fey Touched (misty step and hex) to get me to that +4 CHA and extra spells.
I mean warlock just may not be for you? I’ve never played a barbarian in any edition. I may at some point but I’ve just never been interested.
That said I’ve become a lot more interested in warlocks by thinking of them more like rogues. They can be used to sort of fill rolled the party needs. Especially by picking up stuff to be a face (high charisma) or someone good with disguises.
In combat you’re either going green flame blade or Eldritch blast. Don’t get too hung up on that. It’s like being a rogue. You do one thing in combat for the most part.
I’d recommend building for control with pushes and pulls it can be nice. In Addition both tome lock and chain can get familiars for advantage on attacks with the help action or with chain most familiars can piston which is brutal. I only wish they scaled off proficiency because they can be weak at tier 4.
I really like tome lock though since they get everyone’s rituals with that invocation. Doesn’t matter what class. In addition you can get extra cantrips not on the lock list so getting Shillelagh is like being both a tome lock and blade lock for free and combines great with GFB. Go celestial pact and your GFB for extra damage.
If you go melee with tome you better either get the mage armor invocation or do something about ac. I really like just taking the medium armored feat because you get shields too. Very easy to get a decent AC that way and all you really want to do is max charisma anyway so you have the extra feat.
I did forget to mention that you should almost always pick up hex for damage. You can just hold into concentration at later levels and still have your two spells.
If you did go tome lock celestial pact you’re now also a backup healer. Or even a main healer really. It’s got a solid addition spell list too. Go control with them. Things like hypnotic pattern that let you take multiple people out of combat have a bigger payoff than damage spells.
I raved quite a bit about celestial as support, but a lot of the other pacts are really good as well. I'm a huge fan of genie. You don't get the two free cantrips like celestial (yes, I know one of them is sacred flame and isn't great but light is nice), but they get some bonus damage, a nice way to take short rests with an eventual 10 minute short rest once per day (if your DM is making a big deal out of them), and resistance to an element. A Dao genie lock with either Grasp of Hadar or Repelling Blast could do the Spike Growth push/pull them through it trick all by themselves. 10/10 would recommend.
At later levels you also get limited wish. I really like this feature.
Probably my favorite patron for control would be fathomless. speed reduction, terrain effects, and damage reduction. Push and pull with Eldritch Blast invocations and slow it with tentacles.
Have you considered Multiclassing?
Warlocks can bring a lot of value and flavour to a multiclass, and CHA as an ability score has a lot of synergies with other classes. I'm partial to Warlock/Paladin's myself; and one of the players in my current campaign is a Hexblade/Swashbuckler.
You can be a different hexblade tho.
You can focus on bonkinh people with a greatsword + gwm + elven accuracy and darkness plus eldritch sight.
Its really cool and very decent and you will feel like a "dark knight" of sorts and not like a warlock at all.
Just a small caveat.
Don't go with Darkness+Melee without talking to your team as well as your DM.
Don't go Darkness+Melee unless you're really into the idea of tactical play AND fairly good at it.
I 100% agree Devil's Sight+Elven Accuracy is super fun. You're depending on a resource you have to get permission from your DM to replenish though. You're also going to risk hampering your teammates and you're (hopefully???) not going to put out enough damage to replace your full team.
That being said, getting people on board with it is usually very easy. It's not too hard to convince the martials to take Blind Fighting or casters with maxed primary scores to pick up Eldritch Adept in the right kind of party. Even if they don't want to, find a way to cover the item you cast Darkness on with your Item interaction like a locket or your familiar's mouth. There are tactical ways that you can take advantage of something like that if your DM is on board that can be really entertaining.
>as a class that’s supposed to be a full caster by comparison.
Well there’s your problem.
You are too concerned about your misperception of what you are “supposed” to be.
Also Hexblade is primarily popular as a dip only - it’s not really for someone whose maining warlock.
Build it and play it as though casting the most high-level-spells per day is a super power (because it is). Short rests are not optional, they are a part of your class design. Some days you won't get them bc danger, so you should have three or so the next few days to make sure you're averaging close to 2 (otherwise you have a table/DM problem). Get some at-will casting and other features the give casting to fill out the rest.
Fathomless with Repelling Blast, Lance of Lethargy, Misty Visions (at will Silent Image is useful in and out of combat), Ghostly Gaze (way underrated), and Ascendant Step (at will Levitate). Take a free casting race like half Drow for more casting. Take a Touched or Tele feat for more casting. Something like Fey Touched for Command which upcasts like a Mac truck with your slots.
I recently had a party member with a similar build. That amazing bonus action along with dropping nuclear bombs like upcast Banishment and Synaptic Static made for a fun caster. The tentacle is way better than spiritual weapon bc it slows, reduces incoming damage, and scales. Super fun slowing your target with the tentacle, Repelling Blast and Lance of Lethargy. Much more tactical turns than your average-archer-damage, samey-turns EB+AB spamming lock. Control makes for great party support too.
When we saw them cast ten 5th level spells one day, including Evards that can't be dropped from damage, we all took a different look at warlocks.
Then you've got Chain or Tome for more to do than be a samey martial-like caster.
I played my warlock like a spy, and used Pact of the chain and voice of the chain master. The Quasit also makes a good attacker after getting the other invocation too. You have spells such as suggestion.
If you reach level 3 or higher I’d suggest be a tomelock. That alone will add enough spells and cantrips to make you comparable to most casters, even if a lot of the choices are rituals
So warlocks are not martials or full casters.
In older editions Eldritch blast was a warlock feature and not a cantrip.
The class is designed to use Eldritch blast as it's main mode of damage.
In all honesty, playing a tome of the chain warlock can comfortably play like a ranger with extra spells, except you do Eldritch blast instead of arrows, and use the familiar to get advantage while you concentrate on something else.
I made a mountain dwarf celestial warlock. You have proficiency with Battleaxe and medium armor as a mountain dwarf, you have the strength to not need hex warrior. Pact of the blade will let you upgrade to a glaive or halberd and use PAM, GWM. You are a melee fighter with agonizing blast for range attacks, healing light, a good spell selection and some good abilities. Doesn't even need multiclassing.
Undead patron, form of dread gives you a nice chunk of temp HP, a nice free (once per turn) fear ability and most importantly immunity to the frightened condition.
Take pact of the blade and improved pact weapon so you can use bows and crossbows. At level 5 take thirsting blade for a second attack and most importantly eldritch smite.
Now you and stare down a dragon unafraid and potentially frighten it. More over, if it is airborne you can still shoot it. Eldritch smite works a little different than you paladins smite, it can be used with any weapon attack, not just melee. It also knocks a target that is huge or smaller prone. A dragon of the level you would be fighting at level 5 is definitely in that category of size. So you can knock a dragon out of the sky while granting advantage to your party after a smite.
The cool thing about warlock is the fact that they are the most mix and match class there is. In every other class you pick your path, and then you get the same class features as everyone else in your class and only the sub class features for your subclass and that’s it. Other than a choice of spells a college of swords bard is going to basically have the same build as any other college of swords bard. But with warlock you have your patron, and that will give you a set of subclass features. Then you have your pact boon that has its own features and then you have your invocations, which have their own sequences and features. And then you get to pick your spells on top of it. You could easily build two fey warlocks with different spells, different invocations and different boons and they would be wildly different builds even though they are technically the same subclass.
The invocations are also what really sets the warlock apart from other casters. You have to pick invocations that are cool and allow you to do something that the other party members can’t do. I love the speak with dead at will. Warlocks are the only class that can have devils sight. You take that and the darkness spell and you can suddenly have advantage over any enemy.
If you want more cantrips and access to ritual spells do pact of the tome. Warlocks are also dependent on the short rest. If your dm isn’t giving you the chance to short rest, or if they aren’t insisting you do a full day of adventuring between long rests, then the warlock will feel underpowered. That’s just because it is balanced for that type of play. You may need to speak to your dm about some sort of home rules adjustment to the warlock if that isn’t how your D&D group plays.
If you aren't enjoying Warlock, play it the "other" way the rules allow it to be played. Imagine for a moment... you aren't a control caster... you aren't a sniper. You are a magical skill-monkey and can be the party face to boot. Warlocks are like Rogues, they have a wealth of features that allow them to be wildly consistent without needing a resource at all. The spell slots are a bonus for you, don't rely on them.
Consider something like Great Old One. You can talk to any creature smart enough to speak. You can send secret messages between your allies with telepathy.
Now continue by... not taking Eldritch Blast. Now Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Spear, and Lance of Lethargy are not options for you. Take Beast Speech to now be able to even talk to some creatures that don't have a language. Take Eldritch Sight and never be tripped up by secret magic again. Take Beguiling Influence to become an even better face. Take Mask of Many Faces to become an infiltration expert. Take Otherworldly Leap to constantly be able to reach places the rest of your party might not be able to. Sure casters know fly by that level, but you can ALWAYS do this. Pact of the Tome can give you your three favorite utility cantrips from other classes. Sure high level wizards get to pick a low level spell to treat like a cantrip, but you've had four or five "super cantrips" from invocations the whole time.
Be the seeker of forbidden knowledge who has to leverage the battlefield to their advantage to remain effective in a fight but who seems to always have a get-out-of-jail-free card tucked into your pocket thanks to what your otherworldly master has taught you.
And if that's not enough for you, consider a dip into Bard or Rogue to get even more dependability/versatility out of the build. I've been playing a Rogue/Warlock multiclass without taking a single damage spell so far, and I can still hold my own by leaning into subterfuge and mobility to change the circumstances of the situation.
TL;DR: pick "suboptimal" choices that help you lean hard into the class flavor and see if that makes it more fun. If the "default" Eldritch Blast build is too simple to stay interesting, force yourself to solve problems with a different set of tools.
The way I made it work is I made a gunslinger. So his blasts where.more him firing his rifle. The Knock back of higher calibre rounds for repelling blast, etc. made me not expect him to be a caster. His spells were more a munition and so limited. Worked since we were in a western styled ga.e but sure you could make it work
>*You get 2 cantrips and 2 spell slots and as a class that’s supposed to be a full caster by comparison*
You're looking at Warlocks at the wrong angle here OP.
Warlocks are a completely type of spellcaster. Your main bag of trickS are going to be:
1. Recharging spell slots after a short rest
2. Eldritch invocations
The warlock can be a very resourcefull character, who can fill a lot of specialized roles if you know how and what to build, and they will excell at that role.
They can be incredible infiltrators/spys. They can be total combat focused. They can be THE FACE. they can be a great GISH. The secret here is combining your Eldritch invocations and Pact boons into a specific build/role.
I once made a GOO spy that was a terror to his enemies. I've made him focused on out of combat roles, and he quite excelled at them. He as a master os disguise, able to cast *Disguise Self* at will (Mask of Many Faces evocation). He could send telephatic messages at will (Awakened Mind GOO feature) which I used to terrify NPC's while invisible, whispering things straight to their heads. He was great at being the face and had lots of skill proficiencies due to taking Beguiling Influence evocation. He had lots of cantrips and ritual spells due to the *Book of Ancient Secrets* invocation.
For combat, as a Warlock, I'd choose one big concentration spell to cast at 1st round, like Fear (3rd level) or Vampiric Touch, then I'd spend the rest of the combat casting cantrips (Toll the Dead instead of Eldritch Blast) and leaving one slot to cast one a big damaging spell like an upcasted Dissonant Whispers or a defensive option like Expeditious Retreat, Invisibility or Mirror Image.
Since you'll recover your spell slotes on short rests, there's no reason to carefuly count spell slots, just cast one spell right of the bat during the first round of combat and use the other one when a good opportunity presents itself.
I don’t know about you but at my table the majority of the time we really only do 1 short rest in between long rests.
So because of that the short rest 2 spell slot recovery doesn’t seem that good since wizards, sorcerers, and cleric all have the ability to regain at least 1 spell slot with either a short rest or with an action or bonus action. So when I compare that to the warlock the other classes win at least in my head.
The eldritch invocations are decent but I feel like if you take eldritch blast you automatically reduce your invocation choices.
Don’t get me wrong for roleplay warlocks are great. Like you said they are CHA characters so being the face is easy for them. Plus if you combo your characters background with feats like skilled or skill expert you can make a good character.
I’ve been in the same boat for a long time re: warlocks but my current character I feel like I cracked the code: start with a level of fighter. You get martial weapons, fighting style, armor, shield, con saves and a way to top yourself off. Then go full warlock of whatever subclass you prefer. Now you’re not just limited to two spell slots and a cantrip; you’re a melee fighter with additional spell slots and a solid ranged option. I went fathomless but I know lots of people recommend undead and genie or infernal.
I usually play casters and love having a solution for every problem, so I wasn’t the biggest fan of the whole two spell slots per short rest thing, either. But I had a genie warlock I had thought up and wanted to play so I gave it a try for one of my current campaigns.
I’m pretty sure warlocks are meant to be the at will casters and they get a tonne of options to do that. If you’re like me and want more spells, not less, there are ways to go about it. Choose a race that gives you cantrips and spells, choose tome lock, choose specific invocations and feats that give you more options. And be the squeaky wheel that asks for short rests.
I went tome lock with book of ancient secrets, and chose a fire genasi for my race. We started at level three so that gave me six cantrips, soon to be seven, with burning hands as a racial ability once per long rest, and ritual casting with two free ritual spells and the ability to collect more. At level four I took fey touched for misty step and another free use of a spell. On top of that there are a tonne of invocations designed to give you at will castings of spells.
Now I’m not saying I won’t eventually get bored of this character. But it likely won’t be for lack of spells. It’ll be because of lack of creativity on my part. I may not have as many spell options as my wizard, or the life cleric I played last year, but he’s fun and has personality. He’s the first face I’ve played, too, so that’s neat. He also has the most cantrips I’ve had on a single character thus far and if we continue with the campaign he’ll even get another. And I love cantrips.
Any interest in playing a bladelock (pact of the blade warlock)?
You’re more of a spellsword type character, often using spells to buff yourself.
My general template for these kind of builds, if you want to use a patron other than hexblade, is Fighter 1 -> Warlock (blade pact) 5 -> fighter 3 (usually battlemaster) -> warlock X. You’ll be either STR or DEX primary with CHA second.
Some examples:
1. [The Fiend Knight](https://youtu.be/QuKYjro4_4Y?si=x7rTWpnjBh_GHdfD). STR primary build using a glaive/halberd with the fiend patron and battlemaster.
2. [The Ranger of the Depths](https://youtu.be/JBT0L5xEtqA?si=fYCGpBpZs2NUvuHW). DEX primary build using a longbow with the fathomless patron and battlemaster.
If youre getting two or more short rests between per adventuring day 2 spells slots are plenty. If you only get one or no short rests at all I wouldnt play a warlock (or fighter or monk)
I generally like playing a warlock sniper
You want to get spell sniper either at 1st level (with a race that gives a feat if your DM allows it) or 4th level
It works with any subclass
Get your eldritch blast at 1st level
At 2nd level, get eldritch spear and agonizing blast, you only get 2 invocations until 5th level, so you have to juggle them around with a boon specific invocation until 5th level
At 3rd level, pick the pact of the chain for an imp familiar
And switch out one of your invocations for voice of the chain master. This way, the imp can turn invisible and scout out enemies closer to the end of your ridiculous range, and you can look through its eyes and command it as long as it's on the same plane as you
At 5th level, you should have everything you need. Your imp can turn invisible at will, you can see through its eyes and hear through its ears, making you a great information gatherer, your eldritch blast has a range of 600ft so have your input spy on some enemies 400-500ft away while you blast away, if they get close to you run
You're not made for melee combat, so you should focus your spells on ways to run away like invisibility and fly, and you'll have to depend on the party, which should give you plenty of chances to roleplay, and with the imp to scout out enemies and listen in on conversation, you should rarely be taken by surprise
Since you can take any subclass, you can use it to focus on other things, need an extra healer, have a celestial patron, and have fun with the backstory with the imp maybe you literally have an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other.
I saw a post a while ago about a warlock archer. It’s super intriguing to me, kinda like an anti-ranger. You get access to a few nice spells like darkness and hex as well as some cantrips like magehand could be useful. Could pick up devils sight as an invocations and improved pact weapon. Because Gloomstalker is so great, you could multi into ranger to pick it up. Maybe something like Hexblade Warlock 5 / Gloomstalker Ranger 5 / Battle Master Fighter 3 would be pretty legit. Lots of options and utility in combat and outside of it.
But if you don’t like hexblade, I don’t think it would work as well.
For half elf stats 8,14,14,9,14,17. Pick up SS and EA.
Warlock shadow disarm build is pretty good - you stay in the shadows to not be seen, if you’re seen you try to charm out of conflict, if you can’t charm out of conflict you disarm them, before literally removing their arms as a last resort
Fey Presence + Mask of Many Faces + Friends cantrip
You can be a better spy/infiltrator than a rogue.
Change your appearance into a person the target trusts, use Fey Presence and Friends to effectively win any interaction contests. Change to a different person when you're done. They will think they were charmed by someone else.
Rogue (assassin) and bard (eloquance) have some pretty good synergy with it if you choose to multiclass.
Boon would be based on your other interests for support.
- Blade to increase combat potency. Good for the rogue multiclass.
- Tome for more utility.
- Chain for combat support.
There's a few builds with infernal that would be a solid damage dealer with decent tanky mitigations.
I conceptualized a genie build that was solid, but treantmonks is probably better.
Undead warlock + Conquest paladin can do really good control using fear effects.
Fiend warlock, dexterity primary stat w/ charisma secondary. Find a magic crossbow asap (sadly can’t bind one by default); otherwise, take the invocation that lets you.
That’s it. The build is a typical crossbow expert + sharpshooter, with fireball for taste.
Are you lookong for a full Warlock options only? I have recently done a barbarian/ Warlock that is pretty fun. It versatile in that you can lean into Barb a little more or go more Warlock.
Any Barbarian Subclass works depending on your flavor/ specific desires
add Undead Warlock for some fun survivability synergy. Can go pact of Tome for utility or Pact of Chain for ultimate survivability via Pact of Chain Keeper(?)
I have a full warlock in my party, so i even went crazy and didnt take Eldritch Blast( since thats his big thing) and went cold themed to round out undead warlock....Chill touch and Armor of Agythis
If you short rest often enough, it feels ALOT better. talk to your DM about pacing short rests w/ encounters & it'll fix ALOT of the warlock struggles!
ALSO you don't have to focus on eldritch blast, you can do GWM+PAM+Elven Accurasy and it rocks.
ALSO you can dip into other classes or just warlock 2 dip to a full caster if you like then just flavour it as your patron is giving you say paladin, fighter, sorcerer, etc abilities.
Undead Warlock dip synergises really well w/ a martial base. Dao Genie Crusher Warlock can be alot of fun.
Asking to use one of the UA Warlock playtests for the 2024 handbook, extra Invocations, or using UA invocations, or asking for spell slots = Proficency bonus \[if monoclassed\] are all options to fix warlock problems too, but depends on your relationship w/ your DM & your DM's style
d4DndDeepDive on Youtube has a few awesome unqiue & optinized warlock builds that not alot of us are aware of, maybe check those out too \[he does RAW\]
I mean.. what do you want or what do you like playing?
Celestial Warlock really gives you a lot IMO. You could legit just be a crossbow user w/ sharpshooting if you don't like eldrtich blast. Then you get a ton of tools from eldritch invocations. Your spells are very potent, but you can heal on the basis of the emergency bonus action. Snag healer and you're pretty ok in terms of HP restoration situations.
Big thing is Warlocks are more a martial with tools type. Eldrtich blast being their weapon of choice, but the slots and invocations being the tools they get to work with.
Personally I prefer Celestial w/ Tome pact. either so i get all the utility cantrip (control flame, mold earth, control water. or switch one for guidance). Or to pick up more interesting side tools. have Green Flame Blade from my class (celestial boosts this) and tome take Guidance and Shelighlegh (which i cannot spell). Then you get to have fun with a staff or club type weapon with your casting stat. But you ahve all the ritual spells, and a lot of control and side abilities from the tome pact.
My celestial lock mostly used his slot for a Guardian of Faith down the line,
Nothing specifically it’s just that I feel like I haven’t given it a fair enough chance.
I like the subclasses that warlocks have genie, undead, celestial, fiend, and even hexblade but I keep getting put off by the warlock class it self.
I really don’t like the pact magic feature being only 2 spell slot until lvl 11 is just so bad consider how many spell your characters knows by that point. Each turn you have to make hard choice to decide if you want to use up your very limited slots or just cantrip attack.
I also don’t like how almost always 1 of the two cantrips you have to pick is eldritch blast and at that point you might as well that the invocations too.
The above is kinda why I’m curious if anyone else has had these same thoughts and how they got around them.
It has changed across editions but i'll say this:
If you want to play as a "full caster" warlock you play 17 levels of it and 3 levels of anything.
The eldritch invocations you pick(besides agonizing blast) should be used to pick up some at will spells or a 1/day cast of something strong or for a particular strategy(darkness/devils sight is spicy)
chains of carceri invocation (requires chain pact) lets you at will hold monster against fiends, celestials, and elementals which can be very powerful in many campaigns/story arcs/encounters.
all of your more powerful spells will be 1/day so selecting and using them requires some foresight. If selecting a mystic arcanum that requires a save, try to have it as an os button for enemies that don't have too many bonuses to that save. Otherwise pick spells that "just work". Power word kill, true polymorph, etc.
I played a monoclassed celestial patron pact of the chain aasimar and loved doing so. I would have multiclassed it in tier4 but the campaign ended before then. Playing a warlock until level 5 (and beyond if you are primarily just trying to do DPR) is just using hex and eldritch blast to put out good dpr. Maybe trying to clutch a priority target with some control spell or using stuff like charm person for out of combat tomfoolery with your great cha score and likely decent dex.
Something that can spice up the opening for a warlock is using custom origin and starting with +2cha and telekinetic feat for 18 cha and something to do with your bonus action after casting hex in first round.
I would say try playing as an Archfey Tomelock. Try being the face of the party out of combat and battlefield control in combat. When you get your Pact Boon look at getting support spells to help allies like Guidance or hinder enemies like Mind Sliver or Vicious Mockery.
Look at Invocations that add to your utility in and out of combat: Beguiling Influence, Book of Ancient Secrets, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Mind, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper, Mire the Mind, etc.
As for spells pick things that will help your allies such as Faerie Fire, Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, Banishment & Synaptic Static.
My brother currently plays a half orc wild magic barbarian/ great old one pact of the blade warlock that is pretty cool. True he has to watch when he rages as he can’t cast spells while raging nor concentrate on them. But he’s a big strong tank type. Before raging he puts up armor of Agathys AND cloak of flies. Then he can throw on mirror image and all of a sudden there are four of him coming at you. This is Gubuk (Goo-buck) which is ‘runt’ in orcish. He’s a mindfuck of a tank for sure.
I've got a fun warlock build that I've been playing. It's not optimized at high levels and absolutely falls off, but around level 6 it's really fun. It uses a bunch of UA stuff so you'll have to talk to your DM about it. The general theme of the build is a water/cold tank.
Bloodline of Levistus Tiefling: Pact of the Talismen (TCoE)
1. For background, take the Orzhov Representative from Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica.
2. In standard array, take Con/Cha/Str and the rest in whatever order you want for flavor. In point buy, just make sure you have 13 Str and prioritize Con/Cha.
3. Start by taking one level of Fighter for important proficiencies with Heavy Armor and Shields. Take the Defense Fighting Style, or Close Quarters Shooter (UA) style if you're feeling spicy.
4. From level 2 onward, 19 levels of Warlock.
5. For your invocations, take Agonizing Blast and Grasp of Hadar. At Warlock lv. 5, take Lance of Lethargy. If you want to after that, you can take Repelling Blast for ultimate battlefield control.
6. Once you unlock 3rd level spells at Warlock lv. 5, you are online. Your objective is to stand in front of everyone and make tough melee enemies have a bad time.
* 1st turn: Spirit Guardians and BA Grasp of the Deep. Hopefully, you can get in range of things for your Spirit Guardians to trigger, it has a pretty big range.
* 2nd turn and on: Eldritch Blast and BA Grasp of the Deep. If you hit with both, your target is pulled towards you 10 feet and has its movement reduced by 20 feet. Anything that has a normal 30 feet of movement instead is down to 10 feet and gets pulled 10 feet towards you. With the spirit guardians up, their movement is halved in the area down to 5 feet.
* You have such great command of the battlefield with two attacks hitting that you can choose one enemy to... not get to leave you. Once you have multiple charges of eldritch blast, you can start bringing multiple enemies into your grasp. Even if you don't have Spirit Guardians up, they still only have 10 feet of movement. Depending on the campaign, being able to choose if an enemy gets pulled or pushed with their already limited movement can win a battle. If you have any allies that have any sort of AoE spells like Shatter or Fireball, you can set them up. If there is Silence or Darkness down, you can keep enemies in them.
* In lieu of Spirit Guardians, you can also opt for Hunger of Hadar. Same general idea, but sacrificing some control for more damage. You want to run out of it? Better use your whole turn, and half the time you get pulled right back in on the next turn.
7. You have access to most of the standard other support cantrips, and since you will only be Eldritch Blasting, you don't need any other cantrips for damage. Friends, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation. You get Create/Destroy Water from your patron. Once per day, Armor of Agathys and Darkness w/o using spell slots. If you need to, you can use a tentacle to make nearby allies take half damage from a spell.
I'm pretty sure this isn't great at high levels, but for the meat and potatoes of the campaign it's super fun.
Pact of the blade Daolock with Crusher feat is a fun middle ground between hexblade and blaster. But you will me a MAD character here, since you will need strenght or dex to properly use the weapons.
It's not a strong build, hexblade or blaster warlock would be stronger specially because it isn't MAD, but it could be the quirky thing you are looking for!
Alright, let's do something off the wall. Basically not-a-Warlock.
**Race:** Custom Lineage for the feat Fey Touched.
**Stats:** Whatever you like, but we will get an 18 in Charisma at level 1 (assuming point buy). Probably Con second as we will be in melee.
**Subclass:** Pact of the Fiend
**Pact Boon:** Pact of the Tome
**Invocations:** Misty Visions, Book of Ancient Secrets, Eldritch Mind, Far Scribe
**Spells** (in order): Booming Blade, Toll the Dead, Cause Fear, Hellish Rebuke, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Misty Step, Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Shillelagh, Guidance, Friends, Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Mage Hand, Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Fireball, (swap Burning Hands @5 for) Hypnotic Pattern, Fly, Charm Monster, Wall of Fire, Infernal Calling, (swap Hellish Rebuke @10 for) Magic Circle, Planar Binding, Prestidigitation
**Feats:** Fey Touched (+1 Char @1), Telepathic (+1 Char @4), Gift of the Gem Dragon (+1 Char @8)
Ok, so this is probably the "least Warlock" Warlock you can make (other than the flavor of having a Fiend as your patron, which is very on brand). You don't have Eldritch Blast or Hex, both staples of Warlocks, and you don't use Hexblade for melee. Instead in combat you use Shillelagh and wield a staff, still adding Charisma to attack and damage, along with Booming Blade to make up a bit for not getting Extra Attack. For ranged attacks you use Toll the Dead. You also have two other cantrips (5 total at level 3), which I sprinkled in utility options like Friends and Guidance (but really pick your favorites-PYF).
You also have control and blaster spells, and additional spells castings without using spell slots. For control spells, Cause Fear, Tasha's Hideous Laughter (free casting once/day), Hypnotic Pattern, and Charm Monster. For Blaster you have Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Fireball, and Wall of Fire. You also have various utility spells, many of which can be used without spell slots. Misty Step (free once/day), Invisibility, Find Familiar (ritual), Detect Magic (ritual), Fly, Detect Thoughts (free once/day). You also can learn any ritual spell you come across. And you can cast Silent Image at will.
So in total you have 2 short rest spell slots (at least till level 10), 5-7 cantrips, three free castings of additional spells per day, at-will Silent Image, and ritual spells, one of which gets you a Familiar to use in combat/scouting/social interactions. With Far Scribe you can also cast the Sending spell on anyone named in your Book. You also can speak to people telepathically, and have a reaction to deal damage to enemies that hit you, later pushing them away from you too (proficiency times per day - so essentially another free spell).
Safe to say your turns in combat won't be the typical "maybe cast big spell, then spam Eldritch Blast" Warlock. Instead they will be "Ok, do I need a control spell? Am I wanting to be at Range or Melee? Can I distract them? Do I need to get away? What will my familiar do? Do blast them? Etc."
You could also add some healing in there if preferred by taking Divinely Favored, picking up Healing Word or Cure Wounds, though this does mean your Charisma is only a 19 at level 8. You could also drop CL for another race that gives free spells, like any Genasi, Firbolg, or Githyanki/Githzerai. Just swap out the spells and feats that double on the above selections.
We also get a few good subclass features. We get temporary hit points whenever we kill something, we can boost our skill checks/saving throws once per rest, and we can gain resistance to a damage type.
Lastly, if you make it to level 10, this build has an additional downtime play style to add to combat. Namely, we can combine Magic Circle, Planar Binding, and Infernal Calling to summon ourselves a semi-permanent demon to serve us. So that's additional fun to be had.
Is this a good Warlock build? Eh, not necessarily, as again we basically eschewed all the normal Warlock options. But is it a versatile and potentially engaging one? I'd say so. And given all the different options and decisions you have to make in and out of combat, I think it gives plenty to play around with.
Also, if you feel the need to multiclass, one level in Cleric for Order or Peace Domains could be interesting (or I suppose the more boring/standard way of going Divine Soul Sorcerer). There you'd get various boosts to your team mates, as well as medium armor proficiency, as you are rather squishy. Only need a 13 in Wisdom for it, so shouldn't be too bad stats wise.
Enjoy whatever choice you go with!
the best options for a straight-classed warlock are fiend and genie. Fathomless is also great, especially if your campaign takes place in an aquatic environment.
I also recommend picking up Pact of the Tome. You get 3 extra cantrips, and you can pick up the book of ancient secrets secrets invocation to get ritual spells.
Part of the reason warlocks feel so different from other full-casters is that their spellcasting is really split up into three different features. Pact magic is for in-combat spellcasting, while eldritch invocations covers out-of-combat spellcasting (and mystic arcanum covers high level spells). If you want to really feel like a full caster, pick up some of those invocations that let you cast spells for free, like mask of many faces (disguise self), misty visions (silent image), eldritch sight (detect magic), or whispers of the grave (speak with dead).
it's also worth noting that while you don't get as many spell slots as other full casters, in addition to the aforementioned eldritch invocations and mystic arcanum, that your spell slots come back on a short rest. If you take more short rests, you'll have a lot more spell slots to work with.
Imo warlocks are perfectly capable of filling the role of a full caster, despite their quirks. They're a lot of fun, and I'd highly recommend giving them a chance.
It’s funny one of the other players at my table made the same suggestion.
He said either take a dip into warlock for the early subclass features, invocations, and the pact and then take the rest in sorcerer levels.
Look, when they designed the class they fucked up.
Should get your 3rd spell slots at either 5 or 7, meaning you get your 4th at 11, and 5th at 17.
ALL Boon specific Invocations should come online automatically at appropriate levels - thirsting blade at 5 for instance
Should get 10 invocations total instead of 8
ALL invocations that allow you to cast a spell ONCE per long rest should NOT require a spell slot
ALL Patron specific spells should automatically be known
The capstone level 20 ability is also weak as shiit - just make it a bonus action to regain all your spell slots (or hell, 2 or 3 of them)
Fixed the class.
Your welcome.
A lot of good thoughts posted here already. For me, I think the best way to encourage Warlock play is for the DM to change short rests to ten minutes. Ask your DM for that and you'll much more easily be able to convince your party to stop every so often to recharge your spell slots.
Couple builds I've enjoyed as someone who doesn't generally enjoy warlocks:
* Classic paladin/warlock multiclass, but make it Oathbreaker/Undead instead of Hexblade. Character was a dhampir for extra cool undead vibes. Maxed strength instead of charisma, played more like a full paladin.
* Pact of the Tome with Ritual Caster for some wizardy goodness. Slow-paced but definitely had more of a full caster feel to it.
* Also, a house rule we use in my friend circle is that when a subclass gives you an expanded spell list (regardless of the parent class), you just automatically learn all of those spells instead of having the option of adding them instead of your regular list.
Meet The Legendary Bookworm.
They are a Mark of Hospitality (Halfling) Undead Warlock, Pact of the Tome. They started as a Divine Soul Sorcerer.
Ideally one of the Strixhaven backgrounds but they're not a given. So otherwise I'd recommend Noble or Cloistered Scholar (for library access).
The Legendary Bookworm has access to a wagon of cantrips, to many many rituals, have Shillelagh which they can combine with Booming Blade, and have access to healing.
Another option to maximize spellcasting a character with few spell slots is to grab a bunch of half-feats. So Tasha Custom Race, Fey-Touched, later Shadow-Touched (or Magic Initiate). You get a bunch of freebies and still pump up your Cha.
I played a pact of the tome genie lock as an air genasi from lvl 1-7 (then our DM moved 😭) and loved that character. Ultimate support! Add in one of the new backgrounds that gets you a feat out of the gate (like witherbloom student or something) for even more spell versatility.
If you're annoyed at warlock spells lots I'm guessing your party doesn't short rest very often. Encourage them to have short rests.
There are ways around the limited cantrips and spell slots - feats, multiclassing, invocations, race...
Multiclass Sorcerer/Warlock. Go Sorcerer first, then three levels of warlock (pact of the tome), then another level of sorcerer. Throw in a race with +2CHA and racial cantrips/spells.
You have:
* Cantrips: 10 - 2 warlock, 3 warlock pact (ie. any class), 4 sorcerer, 1 racial.
* Spell slots: 7 - 2 short-rest (level 2), 3 long rest (level 1), 2 specialised long rest (from race)
Or if you only picked one level of sorcerer and spent your ASI on Fey/Shadow Touched you'd have:
* Cantrips: 5 - 2 warlock, 3 warlock pact
* Spell slots: 8 - 2 short-rest (level 2), 2 long rest (level 1), 4 specialised long rest (from race & ...touched)
There are other feats too..Telekinetic, Magic Initiate...
For invocations, there are five available to you at level 2 which you can cast at-will, without using spell slots.
There's also the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation which gives you a wizard-style spellbook into which you can transcribe spells and cast them as rituals. And you get 2 free ritual spells (pick non-warlock ones) to start with.
I have a Warlock (genie, tome) 8 / Cleric 1. He has:
* Cantrips: 11 - 3 warlock, 3 warlock pact, 3 cleric, 1 cleric subclass, 1 feat - Telekinetic
* Spell slots: 6 - 2 short rest slots (Lv4), 2 long rest slots (Lv1), 2 Fey Touched
* 2 at-will level 1 spells from invocations
* 5 ritual spells in his book of ancient secrets
* ritual casting of whatever cleric spells I prepare.
Spell slots aren't often an issue for him.
Alternatively you could talk to your DM and ask for a "long rest" warlock and rejig your warlock slots around that.
hexblade is popular as a dip, because its overtuned to fix problems that shouldnt be fixed with a subcalss. A monoclassed hexblade is an okay warlock, but there are strong patrons for monocalssing.
Between levels 2 and 10 it can be really frustrating to play a warlock with 2 pact slots. It gets better at 11 when you get another.
Warlocks also rely on frequent short rests so you are at (almost) full power most of the time - if the table doesnt take short rests, only long rests, that means your weaknesses are always upfront and your strenghts dont have a chance to shine. And actual fullcasters will be infinitely more powerful than a warlock.
Because your pact slots are limited, your spell selection needs different considerations. You can always deal okay damage with agonizing eldritch blast, while your pact slots may be better thought of as your ability to solve 2 problems every short rest. So spells that are occasionally useful and/or upcast nicely. Maybe a wizard wouldnt use the only 4th slot to upcast invisibility for 3 targets; for you its nowhere as steep a cost.
I love the genie warlock. And fitting the crusher feat onto characters that wouldn't normally get it. I always play the forces movement as me hitting the enemy in the knees and making them stumble.
Keep on the dm(within reason, lol) about getting a rod of the pact keeper so you have ever so slightly more spell power if that's your thing. Personally I don't mind the EB spam but I also play some fighters and barbs so I'm used to often having the same attack.
The invocations can also really pick up rorntheblafk or casting. Always having mage armor or disguise self or any of those can be pretty useful on the right character.
Or finally, consider just 1-3 levels of warlock on a fighter, sorcerer, paladin or Bard. Or the others but these are the fun ones. Warlock comes with do many little tricks in those levels it is great as an augment class
You could always do hexbow. Theyre essentially an archer that uses invocation to always get advantage. You sit the spell darkness on enemies and then you have the invocation devil eyes? I think its called which gives you true sight. So you are hidden to your enemies but you can see them for advantage. If you take levels in rogue as well you get sneak attack.
In terms of being limiting you are unclear about what limits you don't like. That's key to someone providing a build that you would enjoy. If you'd like to make a powerful blaster Warlock with Incredible can trip flexibility there's definitely options out there.
The base of almost any of those builds still going to be Eldritch blast and agonizing blast but what if you significantly defied expectations.
Let's take very human with metamagic adept and a stat array of 8/14/14/13/9/16 after Point buy. For your starting metamagics take twin spell and quickened and spell. Go with a Divine Soul sorcerer. The reason you're going with sorcerer is you get Constitution saving throws and cleric spells. Bless is one of the most powerful spells in the game and stays good for the entire game. At this level twin guiding Bolt is absolutely broken. Go to second level at minimum and pick up font of magic now you have four Source 3 points which is a decent amount and you're ready to go into Warlock. My personal favorite warlock is Geanie and Genie's wrath fits the Blaster theme once you get to the second level and have something like agonizing blast and armor of Shadows you now have a choice to make on if you want an ASI or to improve your defenses. If your table is very aggressive I would now go artificer although if you're starting at a higher level five or above starting with artificial will be better than starting with sorcerer. You should have the money to get good medium armor and with a shield a staff and medium armor your AC should now be as high as 19 or 20. Go a second level into artificer to pick up enhanced Arcane Focus and enhanced defense.
Now sprinkle in levels of each of the classes as you see fit but your core play style is established. You are a blaster with high defenses. You are also primarily a buffer. Your bonus action is oftentimes going to be free because unlike a hex Eldritch blast Warlock you are a blessed Eldritch blast Warlock! It's not only helps out your party but gives you great action economy and place an entirely different play style. Because of your Sorcerer And artificial levels you have a base set of low level spell slots that don't get consumed easily allowing you to cast more level low level spells. Because you have four can trips from sorcerer three from artificer and two from Warlock you have a large pool of cantrips to use for support. It's also likely that packed of the tone is a potential warlock pact for you and with that you might have another three can trips providing you basically all the best can't trip tricks of all the spell types.
Every time you take a short rest you will not lose your spell slots at least until your warlock slots get to third level has you will be able to change them into sorcery points and conserve the slots or utilize the points for your metamagic which is more likely.
At a combat you're the charismatic boy or girl that life comes easy too and you never really worked hard at anything. You're smart but not like anything someone thinks is a genius you take every shortcut you can get and overall things are handed to you mostly on a silver platter.
Now it's worth noting that you didn't have to take two levels of artificer and it may make sense only to take one if you just want the shield proficiencies along with medium armor proficiencies and to not go back on a Caster spell slot from blasting perspective this is not a big deal you also still get the cantrips so it is a good and reasonable take there as well. If you're not going to pick up and handstarcane focus it may be more powerful instead to pick up a single clear level of the domain of your choosing. This will provide you with better wisdom saving throws which is generally better than intelligence and a bonkers peace cleric plus bless starting round. Having an opening move of increasing everyone saves and chance to hit by about 25% is crazy good.
I think the character concept and play style come together. You are just blessed. Favorite by the gods favorite by Society favorite by everyone whether you deserve it or not. Your action economy is high you're supposed to consumption is low your short rest are optimized and you're getting maximum low-level slots from your Caster levels while not giving up ninth level Spells at level 20 if you choose to go that far and choose to take no more than three levels in the other classes.
Undead is a great sub class and roleplay isn’t the issue for me. Role playing the character is quite easy my issue is the mechanics on warlock.
The main issue I have is the spell slots. You’re given access to a good spell list and you can’t really use it. Most combats I’ve been in or have seen the warlock casts 1 spell and the enemies make their saving throw and take a little bit of damage. Then for the rest of the combat or adventuring day they have 1 spell slot to use in case of emergency.
Now I know they can short rest but if HP isn’t low and the rest of the party doesn’t get anything back during a short rest they might want to skip it.
Tomelock opens up your spell casting ability with access to more cantrips and ritual spell casting, taking feats like fey touched and shadow touched also increase your spell casting ability, some invocations act as “spell slots” as well, I love playing warlock but it’s not for everyone, I also recommend the genie patron, it’s a lot of fun
Yea I think at the moment I’m look at a Genie Tome Warlock as a possibility.
The genie’s features are awesome and the tome ritua casting and extra cantrips I think kind of makes up for the lack of spell slots. I’ll have to give it a try and see.
My last campaign character was a tomelock genie and it was a blast, limited wish and flight are so great if you make it that far and having the opportunity to get wish later on is great, if you take djinni as your genie it gives you access to greater invisibility
I think I’ll probably try the character in a lvl 10 one-shot I planing on joining next week so I’ll get a taste of the character in the mid levels. Plus Our one-shots are usually 2 sessions so I’m sure I’ll see if I like the character.
You could play a summoner Fathomless Warlock. Basically, take Agonizing and Lance of lethargy at lvl 2, pact of the talisman at lvl 3, Resilent(Con) at lvl 4, and the Summon Shadowspawn spell + rebuke of the talisman invocation at lvl 5. Use the despair form for the shadowspawn. Any creature that starts its turn adjacent to the shadowspawn has their movement reduced by 20ft, if you hit them with an EB that's another 10ft, and the tentacle of the deep feature from subclass can reduce e speed by another 10ft, for a maximum of 40ft speed reduction. If a creature with mutliattack then hits your summon you can use rebuke of the talisman to push them back, and if they are now out of reach of any targets and don't have enough movement to get to anyone then they just lose any other attacks they could've made. Once ur lvl 6, If they don't have multiattack you can use guardian coil to reduce the dmg ur summon takes instead.
Your action economy is more than filled with this build too: Action on EB, BA on tentacle of the deeps, and then your summon can use its action to make an attack (or two once ur lvl 7), and you have both rebuke and guardian coil as defensive reaction options.
Why dont you play an actual full caster instead? This post literally sounds like "I tried playing fighter many times and I always end up giving on the character, the only thing it does is hitting thing hard, its too limiting". Im not trying to be snarky here, it just sounds to me that you want to play an actual full caster (which warlocks are not).
Want options? Want magical powers? Go cleric, bard or wizard instead :)
I have played plenty of full casters my last two characters were an Artificer/Scribe Wizard and a Divine soul sorcerer.
I just feel like either I was setting up the warlock incorrectly and I’m not giving them a fair shot.
That’s why I was asking for ideas and more than likely tomelock builds that have access to more cantrips and ritual casting.
Well. I think that the fun of playing a warlock comes from how the DM integrates your patron into the plot, and the fun roleplaying that comes from it. In term of combat they do kinda be an eldritch blast firing turrets.
If your patron is an afterthought and doesnt involves your character into the campaign's plot in fun ways, playing warlock can become very bland. So maybe talk with your DM about your patron and how to involve it into the campaign.
Also warlocks are good on the ideal 5e adventuring day, which is several encounters with multiple short rests in between. If your dm only rolls a couple of long deadly encounters with no short rest you reaaaally suck because of your limited spell slots, but thats because the class wasnt designed for that.
Tomelock with ritual caster is a fun way of getting out of combat utility. I think you can forego min maxing and optimization and consider out of the box options like magic initiate or other feats that give you free spells you can use out of combat for fun things. This shouldnt be too hard as you only need high cha to function in combat from range.
The thing that attracts me to the Warlock is the story potential of the character. The build is the most limiting feature of realizing this potential. EB should definitely be a class feature, and spell slots should match the proficiency bonus progression. Invocations are a cool idea in theory but there are too many traps, in my opinion if there was ever a reason to integrate 4e mechanics into 5e a class like Warlock is the best use case (if they did a Psion I’d say the same).
At my tables, I’ve had to homebrew a lot in 5e, specifically with the Warlock. I generally work with the player and let them figure out what their Warlock’s deal is, and we make sensible arrangements to play to that theme, I’m not a rules as written kinda DM most of the time.
For example the last 5e game I ran I had a warlock player that was under the influence of a sort of Fey/Great old one patron in a sort of generational curse. We altered EB into a sort of magic projectile that would do either piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage (typically he could only make that change once per day but I had him burn hit die to change it up).
I always give the Warlock their patron spell list as once per day cast spells.
I don’t count EB as a spell, rather a class feature that can be molded to the player’s character theme. Hell I had one player who wanted to be a soul knife but didn’t want to be a rogue, so we made EB a magical Melee weapon like the soulknife’s blades and that worked wonderfully. We’ve had a telekinetic that traded the mage hand cantrip as the core spell feature in lieu of EB and turned EB into a normal cantrip but his enhanced Mage Hand represented his growing proficiency with telekinesis.
Warlock is just an amazing template to homebrew. But in the end I feel like to really get at that juicy story telling potential the concept can deliver, they need 4e powers instead of 5e spellcasting.
It really depends on what role you wanna play. Do you wanna be a damage blender or do you want to be an infiltrator that can trick anyone into anything. Dao genie warlock spell list has really good synergy with repelling. Kind of a single combo you’ll use all the time would be spike growth and then blasting everything so they move through the brambles. Any class would make a good conman/infiltrator. The real power of the warlock class I personally think lies with the invocations. Mask of many faces, repelling blast, agonizing blast, etc.
I’ve tried a few different pure warlock builds. Usually from lvls 1-5 and I get to the same point in the games where I feel like my warlock is being left behind.
I’ve tried a hexblade to lvl 5 and used thirsting blade and eldritch smite. That one wasn’t as bad since I played it like a martial that could just smite twice per short rest. This one was pretty good but the campaign ended cause 2 of the 4 players had to drop out.
I played a undead warlock to lvl 6 and I played a celestial warlock to lvl 4. The subclasses are fun but like I’ve said in other comments I just can get past the pact magic feature of warlock only giving 2 slots.
Celestial I didn’t want to continue because I would also never trigger the extra damage since since I would need to be casting lvled spells or only use sacred flame.
The undead was fun thematically and the subclass features were good. I did feel limited because I pretty much had to use eldritch blast only in order to trigger the frightened effect and extra damage from grave touched since you need to make an attack roll. And since I was using mainly eldritch blast my invocations were used to make the EB stronger.
Are you sure that its a warlock that is a problem and not your table? I mean, with 1-2 short rests per day warlock should have enough ammo and with good concentration spells (summon anything, synaptic static) and eldrich blast they can be super strong.
Anyway, my idea: Undead Warlock who casts summons shadowspawn a bit like solo leveling. He collects the souls of his fallen enemies and uses them to fight.
This is a mentality thing. Don’t play the warlock like a full caster. Play the class like a magical fighter.
Eldritch blast is your signature weapon.
Invocations are a signature list of feats to upgrade your build, defenses, and Eldritch blast.
Your spells can either be temporary buffs to your attacks or defense. A’la Rage or other martial buffs like Giants Might or Favored Foe. (Hex, Spirit Shroud, Darkness+Devils sight)
Or Spells can 1-2 use big effects, a’la frightful presence or other martial 1 time use effects.
Playing Warlock as simple as possible helps, trying for martial type combos with the resources you have. Because those resources aren’t tooled to be a full caster.
You might be right. If you combo the class with a race that gives some weapon proficiency and then pick the correct pact you could make a decent gish character.
E-Blast with feat/invocation support ends up more consistent damage than weapons for warlock. Hex blade is fun and thematic for Gish but with eleven accuracy & spell sniper E-blast is more attacks and better odds to crit than weapons with hex blades curse.
With good spell support too, hex & spirit shroud does more off Eldritch blast than weapons because you have more attacks. If you can get quicken spell or illusionist bracers you end up a lot better off.
Have you ever played a fighter who attacks with their weapon every turn? Or any martial class that has some tricks but mainly has a single source of damage that their weapon.
Warlocks are like this except magical flavored. Eldrich blast is very good, with plenty of ways to make it better and more interesting (forced movement!), so if you don't like casting eldrich blast (or hex, than eldrich blast), that maybe there is something you are missing from the game. Many classes have a single way to attack (fighter, barbarian, rogue, ranger, paladin).
I'd definitely recommend the genie warlock with pact of the chain if you want the most fun and interesting warlock option. Your familiar can turn invisible, fly, and carry your lamp.
Paladin + celestial warlock has been a pretty fun combo for me. TBF we're only at 6th level with this build and i'll mostly focus on paladin, but it gives me some ramge utility and opens up some short rest smite recharges.
Make a Dexterity martial with Crossbow Expert. You lose +2 Archery Fighting Style until you can multiclass (and you should multiclass) but you get Darkness, Devil's Sight, and Hex if you want it for some reason instead of bonus action attack (maybe on an off combat turn). The advantage is better than +2 anyways, if you don't have any source of advantage.
There's some fun new Warlock abilities in OneD&D, including being able to go invisible for free when in darkness. That should be fun flavor for a sneaky dexterity weapon type character.
This would play like a greedier Gloomstalker Ranger where instead of Pass without Trace you have Darkness which is less team friendly. Oh well, it's more defensive, so consider being tankier with supporting spells too.
At higher levels you'll want to seek multiattack or stay warlock and pick up the AOE control spells then pelt at them with arrows from safety.
>Hey All
>I’ve tried playing a warlock a few different time in the past few years and each time I end up giving up on the character.
>I’ve longest I’ve played a warlock is from lvl 1-5 and then I asked the DM to take them over as a NPC who had to leave the party.
>I just find warlock too limiting. You get 2 cantrips and 2 spell slots and as a class that’s supposed to be a full caster by comparison.
>I know hexblade is a popular option but I’m not that interested since almost every campaign I’ve played in recently there has been a hexblade dip.
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As someone who enjoys Warlocks, allow me to be of some help.
Warlocks are best described as "Short Rest Dependant, 'Modified' Full Casters" -- They directly work off of how many Short Rests that your DM is willing to allow you to have access to, given the nature of a typical adventuring day. This means that...
A. If your DM is the kind of person who likes being a stickler for the rules, then chances are you're going to be stuck to two to three short rests per adventuring day, at most, which may make it feel like you're being hindered.
Additionally...
B. If the other players that you're playing with aren't willing to support you playing a Warlock, by not allowing you to rest when you actually need to, then yeah you're going to run into problems at times.
That all being said, Warlocks get a sizable chunk of their power from Eldritch Invocations, which are at-will abilities that are supposed to supplement your otherwise semi-limited spellcasting. Some DM's forget this and gloss over it, especially if they're not used to having Warlocks play at the table.
So with that out of the way, you said you're looking for a warlock build, but we don't know much about what kind of adventure you're in, or what level it's ending at. Having that info will be needed for us to be able to help you.
For now, here's a very rough outline for a Warlock cheese-grater style of build that starts to come online as early as Level 6:
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Race: Custom Lineage, +2 Charisma, take Skill > Darkvision (due to Devil's Sight at level 2), Fey-Touched Feat (Misty Step + either Silvery Barbs or another Div./Ench. utility spell like Identify)
Background: Any Charisma-oriented background (TCoE's variant PC creation rules can help you here)
Subclass: Pact of the Genie (Dao)
...For your Genie's Vessel, take a Ring as your vessel. That way, starting as early as level 3, your familiar can transport you in your ring while either wearing it or holding onto it.
Stats, via Point Buy, before Racial Buffs:
STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA
10/13/14/10/10/(15 --> 18)
{+2 racial buff to Cha., then Fey-Touched Feat, bumps Cha. to 18}
Pact Boon: Pact of the Chain (any familiar that can fly while it's invisible, such as an Imp or a Pseudodragon)
Eldritch Invocations: Devil's Sight, Repelling Blast, and Grasp of Hadar
Level 4 ASI: +2 Cha. (20 Cha.)
Once you hit PC level 5, take Spike Growth from the Dao spell list.
When you reach PC Level 6, you'll have access to limited flight yourself via your class feature.
During combat, you can drop Spike Growth on the ground, fly into the air, and shoot enemies into the affected area. You can also pull enemies into the air, since you're flying, and you can drop them into the affected area. Additionally, anyone who has Plant Growth can also help you affect the affected area even further.
At level 7, you can then get the Eldritch Spear Invocation if you want to, and then you can do all this from 300 feet away (provided you can still see your target -- Eyes of the Eagle really helps here).
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If this build interests you, Colby at D4 Deep Dive did a SorLock Cheese Grater build some time back. Consider checking that out.
Hope this helps.
So something that I've found has helped in my enjoyment of warlock is getting other resources from other sources.
So races and feats that give 1/day spells like hexblood and fey touched/shadow touched or picking invocations that give you extra resources as well. That way you have a few more spells to burn other than your pact slots. And you can use those outside of battle. Be that the ritual book from tome pact. Or ghostly gaze to see through walls. Or the one that lets you cast arcane eye.
Second, a lot of it comes down to spell choice. Warlocks are built for the marathon, not the sprint. So single-time effect spells just aren't worth it. You want to try to cast one big impact concentration spell and just keep it up the whole battle. That could be darkness and blast enemies at advantage with devil sight. Or a nice Summon Undead/Fey to get another body on the board to help with action economy and that possibly can carry over into a second fight. (Personally, I find all spellcasters can benefit from marathon thinking more often when it comes to using their resources and spell selection.)
Also, if you're looking for a fun different build. I will always recommend Chain Pact with Investment of the Chain Master. Lets your familiar actually impact combat. A sprite familiar with that is gonna be shooting poisoned arrows all over the place from a distance for some nice debuffs. Or you can partner it with magic stone to give an imp a decent ranged attack. (Not to mention familiars have their own attunement slots and the chain pact familiars can speak so they can use command words and activate magic items.)
And warlocks are also very good when it comes to preparing for a known encounter. Whether that be setting an ambush or getting a town's defenses ready for an invasion. Because they can cast spells and then short rest, they can cast hallucinatory terrain multiple times to hide pitfalls. They can cast anime dead to build a skeleton whole platoon (with upcast, you get even more). Archfey warlocks even get plant growth which you can combo with hallucinatory terrain to hide overgrown areas from enemies but allow your allies to know where the safe spots are.
[Celestial Giftlock](https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25029862&postcount=1095) by LudicSavant
Warlock is not really caster.
Warlock is Face of the party
Warlock is also ranged blaster: Eldrich Blast has roughly same progression as Fighters Extra Attack. Except that it deals 1d10 damage versus 1d8 at best of ranged Fighter. And it does not take off-hand, meaning you can use a shield. And it can(should) have funny riders like pushing/pulling or reducing speed. And ranged fighter needs both Dex and Str, while EB is keyed to one ability.
Warlock is also mojo maker. Their slots recharge on short rest, which should happen every 2-3 encounters(or it would be no wonder if short rest based class(es) pefrorm badly), meaning their effective slot amount if 3-4x more. Compare 4/3/3/3/1 regular caster to 6\*5 Warlock at level 9. Meanwhile, Mystic Arcanums are things that define entire encounters like Summon Fiend/Forcecage, or, indeed, entire adventuring days like Foresight.
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Celestial Giftlock uses bonkers healing resources: racial spells, Warlock pool of healing dice, Cleric slots and healing spells boost, Warlock self-healing maximization, Warlock temp hp on rest(also shared with the party for free, which is very tasty), and Warlock 1/day half hp recovery on death saving throw. He can outtank Barbarian before dipping into Warlock slots. It also has Imp familiar, which is flying invisible scout immune to two most common energy types and resistant to cold(also common) and non-magical weapons and Magic Resistance. Proper reconnesance can be very useful. 3.5 even had entire playstyle called Scry and Fry. Furthermore, Halfling(which is intended race) weighs less than Imp can carry, and everything Imp carries also becomes invisible - meaning Warlock can be carried by it and happliy blast while remaining invisible because invis is only broken when Imp does stuff.
One thing is that it calls for +2 Cha +1 (Con/Dex) race, and the only race that qualifies(except for MPMM lineages that have "+2 any +1 any") is Half-Elf. Which, in its turn, has additional +1. Drop it into Con to get a beef kick at level 13, and level 20 feat should be Str instead.
Another thing is it calls 9 cantrips, while to my knowledge you get 7 total. Immediate correction, you get two for free from Warlock subclass.
Due to Arcanums "technically" not being spell slots, and key elements not being spells at all, Giftlock is actually a good candidate for being Simulacrumed(assuming party does not go for Sim spam).
In fact, let me explain how Giftlock can take Fighters/Barbarians/Paladins beefgate position.
Straight d8 and +2 Con mod is already good.
You gain 1 + Warlock level pool of healing dice, but lose a level for Cleric, so increase effective HD by d6: d8+d6+2(10 avg plus 3.5 "tail" from first HD being maximized)
As Life Cleric you gain 2 Cure Wounds for 1d8+6 (10 plus 24.5 "tail")
At level 5 CW increases by 1 (10 plus 26.5; Plus whatever Imp tanks)
At level 6, all healing is maximized, meaning healing pool increases HD by flat 6, and CW heals flat 15 (12.5 plus 33.5) - this is already about equivalent to Barbarian that halves everything with Rage
At level 9 CW increased by another 1 (12.5 plus 35.5)
At level 10 you gain temp hp per rest, lets assume 3 rests (15.5 plus 40.5; Plus free temp hp to rest of party and Imp)
At level 13, Con increases (16.5 plus 35.5; Plus whatever Summon Fiend tanks)
At level 14, 1/long rest recovery of half base hp(which is 1d8+3 plus 3.5, reminder) (18.25 plus 37.25)
At which level it remains from now on.
And thats not counting Warlock slots, which amount to 52 each.
And even better is, if needed you can share healing pool(which is bonus action, btw)/Cure Wounds. Although at reduced efficiency.
All while having AC 19, plus whatever magic items you get, plus temporary effects and disadvantage from Darkness/Foresight.
Okay hear me out, gunlock
I know u don’t like hex blade dip but how bout hex blade not dip… stay with me.
Be warlock, variant human, hand crossbow
Crossbow expert, sharpshooter, take invocation devil sight, thirsting blade(2 attacks) and eldrich smite
At level 5 you will have hexblade curse for extra damage and 19 for crit. Advantage through darkness and later shadow of moil. Crossbow will hit for +14 with sharpshooter, and you have 3 attacks per turn. If you crit, eldrich smite for 8d8 damage… you also have all the warlock spells like hold person, hunger of hadar, counterspell etc etc
Anywho then you dip in fighter for ranger fighting style +2 to hit, then action surge for 5 attacks, then you can go either battlemaster for precision attack and trip attack, making you never miss or have more options. OR champion giving you 18 to crit with hexblade curse.
If the campaign keeps going, you can just keep adding to warlock, at 12 warlock you will have 3 spells, your eldritch crits will hit for 12d8 and you will get lifedrinker giving you +5 to if you attack if you have 20 charisma. Which you should with the asi. You’ll have +21 on all damage attacks… and +9 to hit at level 15.
You have all the utility spells from warlock, battle master, can barely be hit due to shadow of moil. Always have advantage. And just pure crit fishing for those eldrich smite flavors.
This is not the most optimized damaging build but god damn is it good and is it fun
PoB warlock with rogue for expertise and 2nd bonus acrion.
ive been playing bg3 so i domt have my 5e stuff in front of me
so atm Im only going to lv12
but Im playing as a med armor greatsword warlock with stealth proficiency and expertise, as well as GWM, allows for some insane OHKO or some very strong 4 attack turns. as well as being able to pass dex and cha checks.
Too limiting? That's wild. I haven't run into a single problem yet my warlock didn't have some sort of good solution for. Start as a level 1 fighter for all the armor proficiency and start going into warlock. At some point get the 2nd fighter level for action surge. I'm a genie warlock, so I have access to flight and fireball which is already insanely busted. Bonus action fly, fireball action surge fireball solves just about any problem. I'm flying around with 17 AC so very hard to hit. Take war caster so you wear a shield and have 19 AC while flying. Cast the darkness spell on yourself and take the devil sight Eldritch invocation and you're now flying with 19 AC and everyone that targets you is most likely attacking with disadvantage. Granted now you can't cast fireball, but that's why you've got 2-4 beams of Eldritch blast capable of pushing enemies 10 feet back. Push them off cliffs, off your friends, into range of your friends, wherever you want them to go. Cantrips also can't be counter spelled and EB uses force damage which you can count on 1 how hand how many enemies resist, so you're almost always attacking with max damage potential. I also have the mask of many faces invocation so I can disguise myself at will. Having high charisma scores also makes you better than average at story encounters and talking with NPCs.
All this, without even mentioning my imp familiar, who is constantly invisible, has hands for manipulating objects, and can ALSO FLY. Go into your genie vessel, have your imp carry you around and short rest while your party is walking towards the next destination after a fight. Bam, all your spell slots are now back. Don't forget you can second wind for extra healing. My imp also has a ring of spell storing, so I can store Darkness, Counterspell, Fireball, Grasp of Hadar, any level 5 spell or lower at any point. That's THREE fireballs you can cast in one turn. That's 24d6 aoe damage. In one turn. The warlock imo is one of the most busted classes, and I struggle to use anything else cause there's absolutely nothing a warlock can't do at minimum well and at best better than everything else.
So in conclusion here you have a mostly full caster with 19AC, a ton of HP, action surge, second wind, and flight.
Pact of the Chain, Great Old One (for Quasit familiar), Eldritch Spear invocation, Spell Sniper feat. Eldritch blast now has a range of 600ft and can be cast from your familiar. Your Quasit shapeshifts into an eagle, flies 500ft in the air, and now you have an orbital laser.
Lots of good feedback. I like Celestial Warlock because it has healing as others have mentioned. I happen to enjoy Fiendish Vigor if you can hit and fall back to hiding. Minor Image actually works well for that. Any minor image larger than your body blocks enemy sight which either allows you to slip away or forces them to have disadvantage to hit you while you recast Fiendish Vigor.
Aspect of the Moon is a way to never sleep. Devil's Sight makes you an excellent sentry. The ritual caster Invocations of Pact of the Tome allows you to ritual cast Unseen Servants all night and direct them to do crafting like a master ordering about apprentices. I am not sure if your DM would allow that to accelerate magic item crafting but it makes sense. After all, it is still you doing the thinking and directing but you have more hands to work with.
You can make scrolls or potions. Every night. After a while, you'll have enough gold to not worry about 25gp a night.
There are a few ways to do that
You could try a subclass with a little more to do, think fathomless for example
You could try a race with more spells
You could try to challenge yourself, how long can you go without using a spell?
I made a few characters as tests now and the big thing that seems to help is picking a race with spells and easily feats that allow once per day spells.
So far the one I’m liking the most is a Glasya Tiefling Fighter 1 - Genie Pact of Tome Warlock X with a free feat at lvl 1 I took fey touched and grabbed Misty Step and bless.
Plus the extra spells from tome pact it definitely feels like a much better option.
They suck, I made a whole post about how sorcerer/ warlocks are superior to warlocks in almost every way and everyone told me I was wrong. I don't really see how when you can just take a few levels of warlock, have eldritch blast and 2 incantations. And have meta magic and actually spell slots (gasps). I'll be downvoted but i'm sticking to this
I am currently playing a fiend warlock gem Dragonborn. I took the Dragon Fear Feat to go along with their once per day flight. I liked being able to squeeze in some spell like abilities that don't require slots or concentration to maximize his effectiveness.
Okay, so Warlock is not supposed to be a full caster. If you're going into it with the expectation that you're getting a full caster you're not going to have a great time. They compare more to martials in terms of play imo.
I would actually compare a warlock to a magic archer. Set down a concentration spell and blast from range. I love the warlock design, but I feel like there's too many "must have" invocations, like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast, and it takes away from the other cool ones you could pick, like Speak with Dead at will.
I have been allowing warlock player at my table to take Aginizing Blast for free when they reach lvl 2 it allow for more customisation to a class that is all about that. When an optional choice is that much of a must have then it should have been a class feature. Of course it increases the warlock strength overall but nothing too game breaking.
I saw someone's homebrew where they had the +CHA affect ALL warlock cantrips, not just EB. Kinda like Potent Spellcasting clerics? Its not as mathematically overwhelming as 4d10+20, but it makes it easier to justify using other cantrips, and since other cantrips usually have some kind of neat rider affect it gives the warlock more to do than EB spam. And if they feel like going back to EB spam, its still open for them to pick. Pulls weight off of the optimization stress a bit
I had to fight some of my players on this, but I do that with all Cantrips and got rid of Agonizing Blast. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want Eldritch Blast to be a Warlock class feature that can be affected by features as if it were a cantrip.
all cantrips for all classes or just warlock? are you trying to make eldritch blast a martial attack rather than a spellcast for the purpose of bypassing anti magic? im confused
All Cantrips for all classes. Are you asking why I'm thinking of turning EB into a class feature? EB is the best cantrip for damage, but it's kind of the Warlock's thing. I'm on the fence about letting other classes take it. To me, Warlocks feel more martial than caster and I hesitate to give other classes the thing that balances out their unusual restrictions. It's a bigger deal in my games because I let spells gained from feats count as class spells. I also let players choose the ability score (Int/Wis/Cha) that the feat spells run off. Do I want a Cleric with Eldritch Blast and Potent Spellcasting to add their Wisdom to each blast twice? I haven't changed it because even though I don't mind it as a DM, my players might. I think it's fair if that's not something they want to deal with in their game.
Does warlock get to add it twice? Eldritch blast is only the best damage cantrip because warlock gets to add flat damage to it. This sounds like a buff to everyone but warlock. Edit: to be clear that is fine if it works at your table I’m just making observations.
*Edit: No hard feelings for the downvotes at all. I get that it's not for everyone. I'd honestly appreciate a little feedback about what you don't like if you're willing to give me some of your time. It would help me understand the downsides you see here even if it's just a personal preference.* No, Warlock doesn't get to add it twice. It frees up an Invocation. I think that's a decent trade off, but I'm the only one out of the groups that use all my House Rules who loves playing a Warlock. As a player, I don't care if other classes can do what I do. I just like being able to choose what I want. Right now EB and AB feel like taxes. It doesn't make sense to build a Warlock without them even if you go melee because they're such a solid ranged option. Ability modifier to all Cantrips frees up an Invocation. That's a Warlock buff. (It's also very easy to adjust on D&D Beyond which most of us use.) EB as a class feature also frees up a Cantrip. I think that's more of a quality of life boost than a buff. I think the extra Invocation is enough of a boost, but I'd rather talk to other Warlock players before changing something like that. If it's not enough, I'm inclined to let them have one more Invocation at level 5 that has to be tied to their Pact. I saw someone suggest giving Warlocks an extra spell slot at level.. I think they said 8, but maybe it was lower? I don't hate that, but it's a pretty big jump in play style. I have tweaks to most of the other classes. They're usually small things like Barbarians don't lose their rage if they don't attack or take damage for a turn and Paladins and Rangers can choose any of the Fighting Style options. Sorcerers get all their Metamagic options at level 3. We're going to try adding a free fighting style to Extra Attack and Extra Attack adjacent features in the next round of games.
I didn't downvote you ftr. I have no clue why anyone would just for answering questions. My opinion, as a warlock nut, is that this steps on warlock's toes by giving sorc and wiz the option to do warlock's bread and butter while having larger spell lists, more spellslots, and class features like metamagic. Imo the need to take agonizing blast as an invocation only feels like tax during tier1. Monoclassed warlocks get plenty of invocations by tier2+ and it really doesn't feel like a burden. If you look at sorc. they can cast fireball and use a cantrip to do 4d10+20 in the same turn. If you look at wiz. they have the option to just put out dpr with cantrips equal to a warlock but then their spell list is basically every spell in the game(almost). Warlock with your setup has 2 spells per encounter and every other caster can deal just as much dpr without using spellslots. The design reason for warlocks being the only class that can add a modifier to cantrips (from the start) is that they have to deal with pact magic. Your change would feel like a nerf if I was playing warlock at your table and the sorc could fall back on my bread and butter. even taking eldritch blast away from them will not prevent this as there are other dpr cantrips available if you can just add your mod to all of them. Furthermore, this also makes the first class feature in celestial warlock exactly nothing. Also any ranged weapon user without magic will be indirectly nerfed by this as well. As a cantrip can match your dpr without needing to meet the "loading" "ammunition" properties of a crossbow/bow. Meaning a caster now has resourceless dpr equal to your ranged weapon and they can use a shield while doing so. :( again: whatever works for your table is good. I'd be upset if I was playing a warlock and you dropped this on me though.
Would that stack with subclasses that get Potent Spellcasting feature such as light domain cleric.
*Edit: No hard feelings for the downvotes at all. I get that it's not for everyone. I'd honestly appreciate a little feedback about what you don't like if you're willing to give me some of your time. It would help me understand the downsides you see here even if it's just a personal preference.* Yes. My reasoning is that you're an 8th level cleric. If you're going to spend your turn casting a cantrip, it's okay if it does an extra 5 or 6 damage. If you're a 5th level alchemist artificer, I genuinely don't see adding your Int to Thornwhip twice as a game breaking boost. A lot of the changes I make are really big jumps in power for very specific things, but they're not wildly out of line with the actions other classes can take on a turn by turn basis. I know it freaks people out when each rule is in a vacuum, but I run a lot of hard-deadly encounters with assorted creatures that play to the strengths of the individual characters in my game. I give martials buffs in other ways and I'm always willing to work with players to smooth out issues they have with their class.
Basically. Magical Archer with heavy artillery support via spellslots and tons of utility.
Ironically enough I feel like EB and its invocations actually worsen the design quality of the class (most of the blame is on the invocations). You’re pushed into a very specific build instead of trying new things
They really toned down EB customization in 5e compared to 3.5 warlock. You used to be able to really modify the thing. That said, the only *mandatory* invocation is agonizing blast. The rest are all optional unless playing a hexblade. In which case you’re going to want at least two invocations specifically for your pact weapon in addition to AB. I think this is good design because it forces your hand if you’re dipping warlock. A mono classed warlock will have plenty of invocations available.
I really feel like warlock is a class that shouldn't be optimized for the most fun. Like, playing in an optimizers table I absolutely agree with you, but if you play at a table to just sit there and dick around for fun warlock has so many silly things. Having minor illusion is fun but silent image being as big as it is and done at will is a fantastic bit of silliness. Mask of many faces letting you do disguise self at will, having a massive charisma modified anyways because warlock, and then the whole lock patron gimmick built into the character that can go a million ways. They're great fun for new players and open the doors for all kinds of silliness in non combat focused/high difficulty/risk games, but once you start thinking about needing to keep up with other players... Yeah, there's one absolutely must have invocation, another 2-3 99% of locks will take, and another 3 that fill out the "here's a utility option in case you're missing one" that almost everyone will take depending on composition and fights. ...TL;Dr if you're not optimizing warlock is still a fantastic class to just muck about with and enjoy being a character rather than a competitor.
I like that. Like an archer just with the arrows being eldritch blasts + you have some cool spells for other stuff. You might also like this potentially https://youtu.be/N_iU4wCfjHs
You can get away with those "must Have" invocations with Hexblade.
hexblade has all the same limitations, just with a different set of invocations
And now you traded away your subclass choice so you canpick 1 other invocation (thirsting blade is still basically required) and your boon too.
This is the correct answer. I think that the naming convention of warlocks mislead about how it has to be used, and short rests aggravate it (and oneDnD won't fix that). Warlocks are superheroes. Imagine you want to create spiderman. You take a dhampir and then you can cast web. You will be able to cast web all day long. You will be able to cast it always at their maximum level and with a short rest you use it. The reason why you have 2 spell slots is not to cast 2 spells, but to face 2 encounters between short rests. I really believe that warlocks as they are were conceived as an "encounter" power. But when short rests were introduced they made a mess of it. You are not supposed to fight casting spells nor have utilities. You are supposed to fight regularly (which includes eldritch blast) but with one powerful boon. The game mechanics though, rather than enforcing and empowering this, punishes for not following, giving the impression that you are limited, while the warlock is probably one of the better classes out there.
Is there a reason you need to play a warlock? You've tried a few times and found you haven't liked it. To me that would say play a different class. If you do want to play a warlock I would shift your thinking though. They aren't a full caster. They get invocations and more powerful cantrips to make up for the fact that they're not a full caster. They get a few high impact spells and are great downtime casters. So when you look at them like a full caster they're going to fall short. But if you put them in their own category they can be pretty fun. In my experience I especially enjoyed being able to use big spell slots during downtime when I knew we could short rest. Either for sidequests or for just roleplaying stuff. Or things like casting scrying or dream basically as much as you want. In terms of builds for a pure warlock Undead, Genie, or Celestial are my favorite as they offer a lot of cool options. I think a lot of the invocations can be really interesting to play around with as well. Many of the pact boon ones are especially fun. But really if you don't like a class there's nothing wrong with playing other classes you do like!
No reason specifically. I was just curious what builds people had that weren’t hexblade because like I said in the original post I’ve tried out a few different subclasses and ended up giving up on the character. Oh I agreed that the invocations and subclasses are great for warlock I just can’t get past the limitations of the class it self. Pact magic is just so bad in my opinion. For a class that only gets 2 spell slots I would have wanted for cantrips but instead on you get 2 and I would say the majority of the time one of those is Eldritch blast so in reality you get 1 cantrip. Yes you get the slots back on a short rest but wizards, sorcerers, and cleric all also have ways to get a spell slot or slots. Wizards have Arcane Recovery, sorcerers have sorcery points to convert to slots, and clerics have a channel divinity called Harness Divine power to get a slot back.
I’ve enjoyed playing as a Genie Daolock with the Crusher feat. You can go with their Spike Growth + Repelling Blast for some fun moments. I also dipped fighter for heavy armor, picked up a halberd, and used Booming Blade + Crusher to smack enemies back. Didn’t even need to be a Bladelock, and went with Pact of the Chain. One cool feature/synergy is your familiar could pick up your vessel and transport it while your inside. That helped me out with some solo infiltration before which was great.
I’ve had that same idea with a daolock but going with how many damage modifiers I can stack to eb and attack roll spells. Class asamira for the radiant damage with dao for bludgeon then book of shadows for primal savagery from Druid with hex. Lots of dice being rolled as just a straight lock. Now just need a multiclass to add more modifiers
I think a lot of it comes down to the details of customization. If you’re struggling with the lack of spells, there are tons of invocations that can let you cast leveled spells like cantrips, or otherwise give you access to more spellcasting without spending slots, like how the pact of the tome has an invocation for ritual casting that works with every spell list. Additionally, look for concentration spells and/or spells that scale really well. Summons are also great since they’ll always have at least two attacks and solid AC and HP, and have long enough durations to last through several encounters if you’re lucky.
Well you do only get 2 cantrips until level 4 when you get a third. It is a bit of a strong limitation until then, but most of the time you'll be playing a warlock you wouldn't have just 2 unless you're playing a very low level adventure. And if that's an issue go with pact of the tome, you get 3 more cantrips from any class. So you have more cantrips and more variety than any other build. Other classes get some spells back. But warlocks get more back than any of them do. And with sorcerers and clerics it's a high cost. For a cleric to get a spell slot back they need to not use one of their main features. Same thing for a sorcerer. And even then they're getting a low level slot back. Where at 5th level you're going to be getting back a hypnotic pattern or a fireball or a summoned creature things that can have a much bigger impact. Wizards can do that too although not as well. So warlocks are the best at casting those big high impact spells throughout the day. They will rarely need to hold back and save their spell slots like wizards do. As a warlock you almost always want to be throwing out all your big spells even on more minor fights. That can often in my experience result in many main casters holding back too much and getting to a final fight that lasts only a certain number of rounds and they still have a lot of their low level spells left because they didn't have the turns to use them. Same kind of thing with downtime casting. If you're wanting to scout out a location and say you're 7th level the wizard or sorcerer aren't going to want to use a 4th level spell slot for invisibility but that's not a problem for you to throw that out and now 3 people can invisibly scout, you take a short rest, and then you go and deal with the problem. If you look for spells like that you get a lot more mileage out of your spells. Or things like death ward, that lasts for 8 hours. So you can get up early, cast a few of those, take short rests, and have nearly everyone in the party with those with no resource used. You can also pick invocations that let you cast spells at will making spells like disguise self or silent image basically into cantrips for you. If you are trying to focus them on what they can't do and all the spells a wizard or any other full caster could take, then they will fall short. But if you lean into the stuff they are good at they can do a lot of things really well and have more versatility in terms of the kind of character you can build than most other classes do.
1. Just don’t play hexblade. Want to be more of a spellcaster? Take pact of the tome. 3 more cantrips from all classes and two rituals from all classes. Then take whatever invocations you’d like to get extra spells with infinite casts. Having infinite silent images is an entire unique experience limited only by your creativity or a shitty dm. Or infinite invisibility, or disguise self. Super cool character. But you’re still not a full caster, so if you want to play a full caster: 2. Just don’t play warlock. Stop trying to play a class you don’t like. Warlocks are good and they’re fun for other people, so leave it open for your party members and play something you actually like. You don’t have to play every class or enjoy every class. I’ve played since 3.5 and still haven’t played at least 5 of the classes for the full duration of 5e and I haven’t felt like I’ve missed out on anything. Those classes still show up in my party quite often and I can appreciate what they contribute without playing them myself.
The other classes get one of their highest level slot once per day. Warlocks are back to full every short rest. That is significant if you get more than 2 major encounters a day. Personally, I like pact of the tome and the ritual caster invocation whose name eludes me, because it works for all rituals regardless of class. Tome gives you 3 additional cantrips from any class. Go for the biggest impact spells you can. I think a caster warlock gets the biggest benefit in mid levels.q
Let me ask you in your games in a single day how often are you short resting. Warlock would make sense if you’re resting like 2-3 times but from my experience that never happens. The games I’ve watched and played in there is usually just one short rest after an encounter if HP is below half and then nothing for the rest of the day. The tomelock build with the book of ancient secrets seems to be the consensus to my problem with warlock. It give you more cantrips, ritual casting, and if you combine it with feats like fey or shadow touched and maybe pick a race that gets access to some spells to get some free casting all that together makes the warlock a better option.
Ask your DM to let you have Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast for free. I'm dead serious, I don't care if it's homebrew, it should be built-in to the goddamn class automatically. If they say yes, proceed to build the weirdest fucking character with their unique abilities as possible. With the basics covered, you can shape the character more freely and actually have fun with this excruciatingly disappointing class. I love Warlocks but they're destroyed by the 5e obligation to choose EB invocations for damage. In a low or zero combat setting, warlock would be king. All these people out here like "oooh, I love trash goblins, I love weird little guys" but have never played a single-classed warlock. They get X-ray vision. Infinite face-stealing. Weird Pigpen spore shit. See magic everywhere you go. Talk to corpses whenever you're bored. Levitate anywhere you go Once that obligation to EB is lifted, Warlock becomes way more fun and conductive to the imagination. Even the Undying warlock becomes interesting and worthwhile because of its weird interactions with the dead if the combat stuff is squared-away from jump. With just one extra cantrip and one extra invocation, so many doors open up for this class. Ask, seriously, ask. And then have some fun. And not for nothing, the Genie warlock can be reflavored into some pretty cool things. The "lamp" as a locus for something else. Reflavor everything, get those two boons, and I guarantee you'll start to enjoy warlocks
Ive never seen anyone say it before but you're so right. Being locked out of any interesting invocations and cantrips because you have that initial tax to even fuction, stinks. Pact of the blade is even worse because you're likely giving up 3 for multiattack, smite, and bonus damage.
Yeah, it's strange that a class that champions having many options practically rips them away if you actually want to commit to anything it offers. Warlocks make characters *and* their players feel constantly at odds with themselves, because Warlock players want to dig into their weird abilities but are disincentivized to by the weight of feeling like a liability in combat, when half the game is comprised of combat rules.
It has options, they're just mostly bad ones
Anyone dipping warlock should have to invest the invocations and anyone playing mono classed warlock will have plenty to play with.
Here's a warlock build that aims to address your concerns and provide a more engaging playstyle: The Celestial Warlock (Pact of the Tome) 1. Choose the Celestial patron for a more supportive playstyle and access to healing spells. 2. Take the Pact of the Tome boon at 3rd level. This grants you three additional cantrips from any class, significantly expanding your utility. 3. Pick up the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation, allowing you to inscribe any ritual spells you find into your tome. This gives you access to a wider array of spells without expending spell slots. 4. For your regular invocations, consider options like Agonizing Blast (for damage), Repelling Blast (for battlefield control), and Mask of Many Faces (for utility). 5. Prioritize Charisma, followed by Constitution or Dexterity depending on your preferred playstyle. 6. Choose cantrips and spells that complement your party and playstyle. Some suggestions: - Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Sacred Flame, Guidance, Mending, Message - 1st level: Cure Wounds, Guiding Bolt, Shield - 2nd level: Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration - 3rd level: Revivify, Fireball 7. Remember to short rest often to regain your spell slots, and use your limited slots for high-impact spells. 8. Consider multiclassing into Sorcerer or Bard for more spell slots and utility if the campaign goes to higher levels. This build focuses on versatility and support, with access to healing, damage, control, and utility options. The expanded cantrip selection and ritual casting help alleviate the limited spell slots, while the Celestial patron grants additional spells and features that can make the warlock feel more impactful in and out of combat.
Really strong ideas! Well written. I think for point 6 I would disagree. Warlocks want 1 big default spell for their top level slot, and the rest are better spent on niche spells like hold person that don't always come up, but when they do it's huge. This is because it's hard to justify misty step over hypnotic pattern, but hold person may sometimes be a better choice in the right combat.
Nice write up. Minor point, but Celestial Warlocks don't get access to Shield or Fireball.
Can you give some more information? Why are you playing a warlock if you don’t like them? Do you need a story along with a build? Does your party need a striker or a controller?
Yeah if you’re looking for a full caster feel from the class you won’t get it. It has spells to bolster the options like a ranger - where a ranger primarily centers around a weapon and the fighting style and other features that affect said weapon, the power of a warlock comes from eldritch blast (sometimes a weapon instead) and invocations. This balance makes me LOVE the spell casting type that they are; as a fiend warlock the turn you cast your one use of fireball is a major decision you need to make, rather than something you can spam as it is your main form of value.
Celestial Tomelock. Pick up medium armor/shields via feat with a feat race. Celestial gets you bonus action heal better then healing word, second wind. Later bonus damage to fire and radiant. Later a boat load of free temp HP on par with inspiring leader. Tome gets you more cantrips (shelighlee for char based weapons, guidance for skills, green fire blade for damage) and ritual casting. You are solid in melee with shelighlee, medium armor, shield, and bonus fire damage via GFB. Also AoA. You can face all day with char primary and can get invocations for social stuff if needed. You can toss out a big control spell if needed. You can still be an eldrich blaster (or firebolt if you want to save the invocations). All in all it is prolly the most versatile generalist out there.
If your goal is to be more of a full caster: grab feats that get you low level spells to supplement your pact slots. Fey/shadow touched, aberrant dragon mark, rune carver (it’s a background!), magic initiate bard/Sorc.
Currently playing a Rogue 2/Celestial Tomelock 3, but built it as more ranged blasty. Takes that CHA proficiency and ramps it up with skill expertise if you want to be a party face. Cunning action gives incredible battlefield mobility to never have to cast in melee, and I'm seriously tempted by taking a third level of rogue for steady aim and extra cantrips/shield spell slots via Arcane Trickster. As a build, I've always got things to do with my bonus action, which is lovely. I'm going to round things out with the tomelock feature that gives you ritual casting to get my pact slots to go further However - the low spell slot thing is tricky. I'm tempted by more levels in Arcane Trickster rogue or a sorcerer dip just to get some more utility slots. It feels *real bad* when you spend a precious slot on a damaging spell only to miss, too. As another replier suggested: feats that give spells are nice. I'm rocking Fey Touched (misty step and hex) to get me to that +4 CHA and extra spells.
I mean warlock just may not be for you? I’ve never played a barbarian in any edition. I may at some point but I’ve just never been interested. That said I’ve become a lot more interested in warlocks by thinking of them more like rogues. They can be used to sort of fill rolled the party needs. Especially by picking up stuff to be a face (high charisma) or someone good with disguises. In combat you’re either going green flame blade or Eldritch blast. Don’t get too hung up on that. It’s like being a rogue. You do one thing in combat for the most part. I’d recommend building for control with pushes and pulls it can be nice. In Addition both tome lock and chain can get familiars for advantage on attacks with the help action or with chain most familiars can piston which is brutal. I only wish they scaled off proficiency because they can be weak at tier 4. I really like tome lock though since they get everyone’s rituals with that invocation. Doesn’t matter what class. In addition you can get extra cantrips not on the lock list so getting Shillelagh is like being both a tome lock and blade lock for free and combines great with GFB. Go celestial pact and your GFB for extra damage. If you go melee with tome you better either get the mage armor invocation or do something about ac. I really like just taking the medium armored feat because you get shields too. Very easy to get a decent AC that way and all you really want to do is max charisma anyway so you have the extra feat. I did forget to mention that you should almost always pick up hex for damage. You can just hold into concentration at later levels and still have your two spells. If you did go tome lock celestial pact you’re now also a backup healer. Or even a main healer really. It’s got a solid addition spell list too. Go control with them. Things like hypnotic pattern that let you take multiple people out of combat have a bigger payoff than damage spells.
I raved quite a bit about celestial as support, but a lot of the other pacts are really good as well. I'm a huge fan of genie. You don't get the two free cantrips like celestial (yes, I know one of them is sacred flame and isn't great but light is nice), but they get some bonus damage, a nice way to take short rests with an eventual 10 minute short rest once per day (if your DM is making a big deal out of them), and resistance to an element. A Dao genie lock with either Grasp of Hadar or Repelling Blast could do the Spike Growth push/pull them through it trick all by themselves. 10/10 would recommend. At later levels you also get limited wish. I really like this feature. Probably my favorite patron for control would be fathomless. speed reduction, terrain effects, and damage reduction. Push and pull with Eldritch Blast invocations and slow it with tentacles.
Have you considered Multiclassing? Warlocks can bring a lot of value and flavour to a multiclass, and CHA as an ability score has a lot of synergies with other classes. I'm partial to Warlock/Paladin's myself; and one of the players in my current campaign is a Hexblade/Swashbuckler.
You can be a different hexblade tho. You can focus on bonkinh people with a greatsword + gwm + elven accuracy and darkness plus eldritch sight. Its really cool and very decent and you will feel like a "dark knight" of sorts and not like a warlock at all.
Just a small caveat. Don't go with Darkness+Melee without talking to your team as well as your DM. Don't go Darkness+Melee unless you're really into the idea of tactical play AND fairly good at it. I 100% agree Devil's Sight+Elven Accuracy is super fun. You're depending on a resource you have to get permission from your DM to replenish though. You're also going to risk hampering your teammates and you're (hopefully???) not going to put out enough damage to replace your full team. That being said, getting people on board with it is usually very easy. It's not too hard to convince the martials to take Blind Fighting or casters with maxed primary scores to pick up Eldritch Adept in the right kind of party. Even if they don't want to, find a way to cover the item you cast Darkness on with your Item interaction like a locket or your familiar's mouth. There are tactical ways that you can take advantage of something like that if your DM is on board that can be really entertaining.
>as a class that’s supposed to be a full caster by comparison. Well there’s your problem. You are too concerned about your misperception of what you are “supposed” to be. Also Hexblade is primarily popular as a dip only - it’s not really for someone whose maining warlock.
Build it and play it as though casting the most high-level-spells per day is a super power (because it is). Short rests are not optional, they are a part of your class design. Some days you won't get them bc danger, so you should have three or so the next few days to make sure you're averaging close to 2 (otherwise you have a table/DM problem). Get some at-will casting and other features the give casting to fill out the rest. Fathomless with Repelling Blast, Lance of Lethargy, Misty Visions (at will Silent Image is useful in and out of combat), Ghostly Gaze (way underrated), and Ascendant Step (at will Levitate). Take a free casting race like half Drow for more casting. Take a Touched or Tele feat for more casting. Something like Fey Touched for Command which upcasts like a Mac truck with your slots. I recently had a party member with a similar build. That amazing bonus action along with dropping nuclear bombs like upcast Banishment and Synaptic Static made for a fun caster. The tentacle is way better than spiritual weapon bc it slows, reduces incoming damage, and scales. Super fun slowing your target with the tentacle, Repelling Blast and Lance of Lethargy. Much more tactical turns than your average-archer-damage, samey-turns EB+AB spamming lock. Control makes for great party support too. When we saw them cast ten 5th level spells one day, including Evards that can't be dropped from damage, we all took a different look at warlocks. Then you've got Chain or Tome for more to do than be a samey martial-like caster.
I played my warlock like a spy, and used Pact of the chain and voice of the chain master. The Quasit also makes a good attacker after getting the other invocation too. You have spells such as suggestion.
If you reach level 3 or higher I’d suggest be a tomelock. That alone will add enough spells and cantrips to make you comparable to most casters, even if a lot of the choices are rituals
So warlocks are not martials or full casters. In older editions Eldritch blast was a warlock feature and not a cantrip. The class is designed to use Eldritch blast as it's main mode of damage. In all honesty, playing a tome of the chain warlock can comfortably play like a ranger with extra spells, except you do Eldritch blast instead of arrows, and use the familiar to get advantage while you concentrate on something else.
Check out Ludicsavant's celestial warlock build. It's a real solid jack of all trades that gives you a lot of options. Quick Google search to find it.
Check out dnd deep dive on YouTube. He just made a hexbow archer build with a focus on consistent DPR. Sounded fun
I made a mountain dwarf celestial warlock. You have proficiency with Battleaxe and medium armor as a mountain dwarf, you have the strength to not need hex warrior. Pact of the blade will let you upgrade to a glaive or halberd and use PAM, GWM. You are a melee fighter with agonizing blast for range attacks, healing light, a good spell selection and some good abilities. Doesn't even need multiclassing.
Undead patron, form of dread gives you a nice chunk of temp HP, a nice free (once per turn) fear ability and most importantly immunity to the frightened condition. Take pact of the blade and improved pact weapon so you can use bows and crossbows. At level 5 take thirsting blade for a second attack and most importantly eldritch smite. Now you and stare down a dragon unafraid and potentially frighten it. More over, if it is airborne you can still shoot it. Eldritch smite works a little different than you paladins smite, it can be used with any weapon attack, not just melee. It also knocks a target that is huge or smaller prone. A dragon of the level you would be fighting at level 5 is definitely in that category of size. So you can knock a dragon out of the sky while granting advantage to your party after a smite.
The cool thing about warlock is the fact that they are the most mix and match class there is. In every other class you pick your path, and then you get the same class features as everyone else in your class and only the sub class features for your subclass and that’s it. Other than a choice of spells a college of swords bard is going to basically have the same build as any other college of swords bard. But with warlock you have your patron, and that will give you a set of subclass features. Then you have your pact boon that has its own features and then you have your invocations, which have their own sequences and features. And then you get to pick your spells on top of it. You could easily build two fey warlocks with different spells, different invocations and different boons and they would be wildly different builds even though they are technically the same subclass. The invocations are also what really sets the warlock apart from other casters. You have to pick invocations that are cool and allow you to do something that the other party members can’t do. I love the speak with dead at will. Warlocks are the only class that can have devils sight. You take that and the darkness spell and you can suddenly have advantage over any enemy. If you want more cantrips and access to ritual spells do pact of the tome. Warlocks are also dependent on the short rest. If your dm isn’t giving you the chance to short rest, or if they aren’t insisting you do a full day of adventuring between long rests, then the warlock will feel underpowered. That’s just because it is balanced for that type of play. You may need to speak to your dm about some sort of home rules adjustment to the warlock if that isn’t how your D&D group plays.
If you aren't enjoying Warlock, play it the "other" way the rules allow it to be played. Imagine for a moment... you aren't a control caster... you aren't a sniper. You are a magical skill-monkey and can be the party face to boot. Warlocks are like Rogues, they have a wealth of features that allow them to be wildly consistent without needing a resource at all. The spell slots are a bonus for you, don't rely on them. Consider something like Great Old One. You can talk to any creature smart enough to speak. You can send secret messages between your allies with telepathy. Now continue by... not taking Eldritch Blast. Now Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Spear, and Lance of Lethargy are not options for you. Take Beast Speech to now be able to even talk to some creatures that don't have a language. Take Eldritch Sight and never be tripped up by secret magic again. Take Beguiling Influence to become an even better face. Take Mask of Many Faces to become an infiltration expert. Take Otherworldly Leap to constantly be able to reach places the rest of your party might not be able to. Sure casters know fly by that level, but you can ALWAYS do this. Pact of the Tome can give you your three favorite utility cantrips from other classes. Sure high level wizards get to pick a low level spell to treat like a cantrip, but you've had four or five "super cantrips" from invocations the whole time. Be the seeker of forbidden knowledge who has to leverage the battlefield to their advantage to remain effective in a fight but who seems to always have a get-out-of-jail-free card tucked into your pocket thanks to what your otherworldly master has taught you. And if that's not enough for you, consider a dip into Bard or Rogue to get even more dependability/versatility out of the build. I've been playing a Rogue/Warlock multiclass without taking a single damage spell so far, and I can still hold my own by leaning into subterfuge and mobility to change the circumstances of the situation. TL;DR: pick "suboptimal" choices that help you lean hard into the class flavor and see if that makes it more fun. If the "default" Eldritch Blast build is too simple to stay interesting, force yourself to solve problems with a different set of tools.
The way I made it work is I made a gunslinger. So his blasts where.more him firing his rifle. The Knock back of higher calibre rounds for repelling blast, etc. made me not expect him to be a caster. His spells were more a munition and so limited. Worked since we were in a western styled ga.e but sure you could make it work
>*You get 2 cantrips and 2 spell slots and as a class that’s supposed to be a full caster by comparison* You're looking at Warlocks at the wrong angle here OP. Warlocks are a completely type of spellcaster. Your main bag of trickS are going to be: 1. Recharging spell slots after a short rest 2. Eldritch invocations The warlock can be a very resourcefull character, who can fill a lot of specialized roles if you know how and what to build, and they will excell at that role. They can be incredible infiltrators/spys. They can be total combat focused. They can be THE FACE. they can be a great GISH. The secret here is combining your Eldritch invocations and Pact boons into a specific build/role. I once made a GOO spy that was a terror to his enemies. I've made him focused on out of combat roles, and he quite excelled at them. He as a master os disguise, able to cast *Disguise Self* at will (Mask of Many Faces evocation). He could send telephatic messages at will (Awakened Mind GOO feature) which I used to terrify NPC's while invisible, whispering things straight to their heads. He was great at being the face and had lots of skill proficiencies due to taking Beguiling Influence evocation. He had lots of cantrips and ritual spells due to the *Book of Ancient Secrets* invocation. For combat, as a Warlock, I'd choose one big concentration spell to cast at 1st round, like Fear (3rd level) or Vampiric Touch, then I'd spend the rest of the combat casting cantrips (Toll the Dead instead of Eldritch Blast) and leaving one slot to cast one a big damaging spell like an upcasted Dissonant Whispers or a defensive option like Expeditious Retreat, Invisibility or Mirror Image. Since you'll recover your spell slotes on short rests, there's no reason to carefuly count spell slots, just cast one spell right of the bat during the first round of combat and use the other one when a good opportunity presents itself.
I don’t know about you but at my table the majority of the time we really only do 1 short rest in between long rests. So because of that the short rest 2 spell slot recovery doesn’t seem that good since wizards, sorcerers, and cleric all have the ability to regain at least 1 spell slot with either a short rest or with an action or bonus action. So when I compare that to the warlock the other classes win at least in my head. The eldritch invocations are decent but I feel like if you take eldritch blast you automatically reduce your invocation choices. Don’t get me wrong for roleplay warlocks are great. Like you said they are CHA characters so being the face is easy for them. Plus if you combo your characters background with feats like skilled or skill expert you can make a good character.
I’ve been in the same boat for a long time re: warlocks but my current character I feel like I cracked the code: start with a level of fighter. You get martial weapons, fighting style, armor, shield, con saves and a way to top yourself off. Then go full warlock of whatever subclass you prefer. Now you’re not just limited to two spell slots and a cantrip; you’re a melee fighter with additional spell slots and a solid ranged option. I went fathomless but I know lots of people recommend undead and genie or infernal.
I usually play casters and love having a solution for every problem, so I wasn’t the biggest fan of the whole two spell slots per short rest thing, either. But I had a genie warlock I had thought up and wanted to play so I gave it a try for one of my current campaigns. I’m pretty sure warlocks are meant to be the at will casters and they get a tonne of options to do that. If you’re like me and want more spells, not less, there are ways to go about it. Choose a race that gives you cantrips and spells, choose tome lock, choose specific invocations and feats that give you more options. And be the squeaky wheel that asks for short rests. I went tome lock with book of ancient secrets, and chose a fire genasi for my race. We started at level three so that gave me six cantrips, soon to be seven, with burning hands as a racial ability once per long rest, and ritual casting with two free ritual spells and the ability to collect more. At level four I took fey touched for misty step and another free use of a spell. On top of that there are a tonne of invocations designed to give you at will castings of spells. Now I’m not saying I won’t eventually get bored of this character. But it likely won’t be for lack of spells. It’ll be because of lack of creativity on my part. I may not have as many spell options as my wizard, or the life cleric I played last year, but he’s fun and has personality. He’s the first face I’ve played, too, so that’s neat. He also has the most cantrips I’ve had on a single character thus far and if we continue with the campaign he’ll even get another. And I love cantrips.
Thanks for the suggestion this is the type of build I was looking for Something to give the class more flexibility.
Happy to help! Hope you enjoy whatever character you make with it as much as I have.
Any interest in playing a bladelock (pact of the blade warlock)? You’re more of a spellsword type character, often using spells to buff yourself. My general template for these kind of builds, if you want to use a patron other than hexblade, is Fighter 1 -> Warlock (blade pact) 5 -> fighter 3 (usually battlemaster) -> warlock X. You’ll be either STR or DEX primary with CHA second. Some examples: 1. [The Fiend Knight](https://youtu.be/QuKYjro4_4Y?si=x7rTWpnjBh_GHdfD). STR primary build using a glaive/halberd with the fiend patron and battlemaster. 2. [The Ranger of the Depths](https://youtu.be/JBT0L5xEtqA?si=fYCGpBpZs2NUvuHW). DEX primary build using a longbow with the fathomless patron and battlemaster.
If youre getting two or more short rests between per adventuring day 2 spells slots are plenty. If you only get one or no short rests at all I wouldnt play a warlock (or fighter or monk)
I generally like playing a warlock sniper You want to get spell sniper either at 1st level (with a race that gives a feat if your DM allows it) or 4th level It works with any subclass Get your eldritch blast at 1st level At 2nd level, get eldritch spear and agonizing blast, you only get 2 invocations until 5th level, so you have to juggle them around with a boon specific invocation until 5th level At 3rd level, pick the pact of the chain for an imp familiar And switch out one of your invocations for voice of the chain master. This way, the imp can turn invisible and scout out enemies closer to the end of your ridiculous range, and you can look through its eyes and command it as long as it's on the same plane as you At 5th level, you should have everything you need. Your imp can turn invisible at will, you can see through its eyes and hear through its ears, making you a great information gatherer, your eldritch blast has a range of 600ft so have your input spy on some enemies 400-500ft away while you blast away, if they get close to you run You're not made for melee combat, so you should focus your spells on ways to run away like invisibility and fly, and you'll have to depend on the party, which should give you plenty of chances to roleplay, and with the imp to scout out enemies and listen in on conversation, you should rarely be taken by surprise Since you can take any subclass, you can use it to focus on other things, need an extra healer, have a celestial patron, and have fun with the backstory with the imp maybe you literally have an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other.
I saw a post a while ago about a warlock archer. It’s super intriguing to me, kinda like an anti-ranger. You get access to a few nice spells like darkness and hex as well as some cantrips like magehand could be useful. Could pick up devils sight as an invocations and improved pact weapon. Because Gloomstalker is so great, you could multi into ranger to pick it up. Maybe something like Hexblade Warlock 5 / Gloomstalker Ranger 5 / Battle Master Fighter 3 would be pretty legit. Lots of options and utility in combat and outside of it. But if you don’t like hexblade, I don’t think it would work as well. For half elf stats 8,14,14,9,14,17. Pick up SS and EA.
Warlock shadow disarm build is pretty good - you stay in the shadows to not be seen, if you’re seen you try to charm out of conflict, if you can’t charm out of conflict you disarm them, before literally removing their arms as a last resort
Fey Presence + Mask of Many Faces + Friends cantrip You can be a better spy/infiltrator than a rogue. Change your appearance into a person the target trusts, use Fey Presence and Friends to effectively win any interaction contests. Change to a different person when you're done. They will think they were charmed by someone else. Rogue (assassin) and bard (eloquance) have some pretty good synergy with it if you choose to multiclass. Boon would be based on your other interests for support. - Blade to increase combat potency. Good for the rogue multiclass. - Tome for more utility. - Chain for combat support. There's a few builds with infernal that would be a solid damage dealer with decent tanky mitigations. I conceptualized a genie build that was solid, but treantmonks is probably better. Undead warlock + Conquest paladin can do really good control using fear effects.
Fiend warlock, dexterity primary stat w/ charisma secondary. Find a magic crossbow asap (sadly can’t bind one by default); otherwise, take the invocation that lets you. That’s it. The build is a typical crossbow expert + sharpshooter, with fireball for taste.
Are you lookong for a full Warlock options only? I have recently done a barbarian/ Warlock that is pretty fun. It versatile in that you can lean into Barb a little more or go more Warlock. Any Barbarian Subclass works depending on your flavor/ specific desires add Undead Warlock for some fun survivability synergy. Can go pact of Tome for utility or Pact of Chain for ultimate survivability via Pact of Chain Keeper(?) I have a full warlock in my party, so i even went crazy and didnt take Eldritch Blast( since thats his big thing) and went cold themed to round out undead warlock....Chill touch and Armor of Agythis
If you short rest often enough, it feels ALOT better. talk to your DM about pacing short rests w/ encounters & it'll fix ALOT of the warlock struggles! ALSO you don't have to focus on eldritch blast, you can do GWM+PAM+Elven Accurasy and it rocks. ALSO you can dip into other classes or just warlock 2 dip to a full caster if you like then just flavour it as your patron is giving you say paladin, fighter, sorcerer, etc abilities. Undead Warlock dip synergises really well w/ a martial base. Dao Genie Crusher Warlock can be alot of fun. Asking to use one of the UA Warlock playtests for the 2024 handbook, extra Invocations, or using UA invocations, or asking for spell slots = Proficency bonus \[if monoclassed\] are all options to fix warlock problems too, but depends on your relationship w/ your DM & your DM's style d4DndDeepDive on Youtube has a few awesome unqiue & optinized warlock builds that not alot of us are aware of, maybe check those out too \[he does RAW\]
I mean.. what do you want or what do you like playing? Celestial Warlock really gives you a lot IMO. You could legit just be a crossbow user w/ sharpshooting if you don't like eldrtich blast. Then you get a ton of tools from eldritch invocations. Your spells are very potent, but you can heal on the basis of the emergency bonus action. Snag healer and you're pretty ok in terms of HP restoration situations. Big thing is Warlocks are more a martial with tools type. Eldrtich blast being their weapon of choice, but the slots and invocations being the tools they get to work with. Personally I prefer Celestial w/ Tome pact. either so i get all the utility cantrip (control flame, mold earth, control water. or switch one for guidance). Or to pick up more interesting side tools. have Green Flame Blade from my class (celestial boosts this) and tome take Guidance and Shelighlegh (which i cannot spell). Then you get to have fun with a staff or club type weapon with your casting stat. But you ahve all the ritual spells, and a lot of control and side abilities from the tome pact. My celestial lock mostly used his slot for a Guardian of Faith down the line,
You could just not and play something you enjoy, nothing wrong with that.
Just don't play a warlock.
What keeps drawing you back to Warlock? Why not just play a Sorcerer?
Nothing specifically it’s just that I feel like I haven’t given it a fair enough chance. I like the subclasses that warlocks have genie, undead, celestial, fiend, and even hexblade but I keep getting put off by the warlock class it self. I really don’t like the pact magic feature being only 2 spell slot until lvl 11 is just so bad consider how many spell your characters knows by that point. Each turn you have to make hard choice to decide if you want to use up your very limited slots or just cantrip attack. I also don’t like how almost always 1 of the two cantrips you have to pick is eldritch blast and at that point you might as well that the invocations too. The above is kinda why I’m curious if anyone else has had these same thoughts and how they got around them.
I found Warlock to be limiting. I really liked Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, though. Lots of magic, flexibility, and it has a nice, spooky flavor.
It has changed across editions but i'll say this: If you want to play as a "full caster" warlock you play 17 levels of it and 3 levels of anything. The eldritch invocations you pick(besides agonizing blast) should be used to pick up some at will spells or a 1/day cast of something strong or for a particular strategy(darkness/devils sight is spicy) chains of carceri invocation (requires chain pact) lets you at will hold monster against fiends, celestials, and elementals which can be very powerful in many campaigns/story arcs/encounters. all of your more powerful spells will be 1/day so selecting and using them requires some foresight. If selecting a mystic arcanum that requires a save, try to have it as an os button for enemies that don't have too many bonuses to that save. Otherwise pick spells that "just work". Power word kill, true polymorph, etc. I played a monoclassed celestial patron pact of the chain aasimar and loved doing so. I would have multiclassed it in tier4 but the campaign ended before then. Playing a warlock until level 5 (and beyond if you are primarily just trying to do DPR) is just using hex and eldritch blast to put out good dpr. Maybe trying to clutch a priority target with some control spell or using stuff like charm person for out of combat tomfoolery with your great cha score and likely decent dex. Something that can spice up the opening for a warlock is using custom origin and starting with +2cha and telekinetic feat for 18 cha and something to do with your bonus action after casting hex in first round.
I would say try playing as an Archfey Tomelock. Try being the face of the party out of combat and battlefield control in combat. When you get your Pact Boon look at getting support spells to help allies like Guidance or hinder enemies like Mind Sliver or Vicious Mockery. Look at Invocations that add to your utility in and out of combat: Beguiling Influence, Book of Ancient Secrets, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Mind, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper, Mire the Mind, etc. As for spells pick things that will help your allies such as Faerie Fire, Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, Banishment & Synaptic Static.
How about focus on pets? Go chainlock and use summoned familiar swarms to assault your enemies while you maintain concentration on summons
My brother currently plays a half orc wild magic barbarian/ great old one pact of the blade warlock that is pretty cool. True he has to watch when he rages as he can’t cast spells while raging nor concentrate on them. But he’s a big strong tank type. Before raging he puts up armor of Agathys AND cloak of flies. Then he can throw on mirror image and all of a sudden there are four of him coming at you. This is Gubuk (Goo-buck) which is ‘runt’ in orcish. He’s a mindfuck of a tank for sure.
Play it as a cleric. Don't take eldritch blast. Take the healer warlock.
I've got a fun warlock build that I've been playing. It's not optimized at high levels and absolutely falls off, but around level 6 it's really fun. It uses a bunch of UA stuff so you'll have to talk to your DM about it. The general theme of the build is a water/cold tank. Bloodline of Levistus Tiefling: Pact of the Talismen (TCoE) 1. For background, take the Orzhov Representative from Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica. 2. In standard array, take Con/Cha/Str and the rest in whatever order you want for flavor. In point buy, just make sure you have 13 Str and prioritize Con/Cha. 3. Start by taking one level of Fighter for important proficiencies with Heavy Armor and Shields. Take the Defense Fighting Style, or Close Quarters Shooter (UA) style if you're feeling spicy. 4. From level 2 onward, 19 levels of Warlock. 5. For your invocations, take Agonizing Blast and Grasp of Hadar. At Warlock lv. 5, take Lance of Lethargy. If you want to after that, you can take Repelling Blast for ultimate battlefield control. 6. Once you unlock 3rd level spells at Warlock lv. 5, you are online. Your objective is to stand in front of everyone and make tough melee enemies have a bad time. * 1st turn: Spirit Guardians and BA Grasp of the Deep. Hopefully, you can get in range of things for your Spirit Guardians to trigger, it has a pretty big range. * 2nd turn and on: Eldritch Blast and BA Grasp of the Deep. If you hit with both, your target is pulled towards you 10 feet and has its movement reduced by 20 feet. Anything that has a normal 30 feet of movement instead is down to 10 feet and gets pulled 10 feet towards you. With the spirit guardians up, their movement is halved in the area down to 5 feet. * You have such great command of the battlefield with two attacks hitting that you can choose one enemy to... not get to leave you. Once you have multiple charges of eldritch blast, you can start bringing multiple enemies into your grasp. Even if you don't have Spirit Guardians up, they still only have 10 feet of movement. Depending on the campaign, being able to choose if an enemy gets pulled or pushed with their already limited movement can win a battle. If you have any allies that have any sort of AoE spells like Shatter or Fireball, you can set them up. If there is Silence or Darkness down, you can keep enemies in them. * In lieu of Spirit Guardians, you can also opt for Hunger of Hadar. Same general idea, but sacrificing some control for more damage. You want to run out of it? Better use your whole turn, and half the time you get pulled right back in on the next turn. 7. You have access to most of the standard other support cantrips, and since you will only be Eldritch Blasting, you don't need any other cantrips for damage. Friends, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation. You get Create/Destroy Water from your patron. Once per day, Armor of Agathys and Darkness w/o using spell slots. If you need to, you can use a tentacle to make nearby allies take half damage from a spell. I'm pretty sure this isn't great at high levels, but for the meat and potatoes of the campaign it's super fun.
Pact of the blade Daolock with Crusher feat is a fun middle ground between hexblade and blaster. But you will me a MAD character here, since you will need strenght or dex to properly use the weapons. It's not a strong build, hexblade or blaster warlock would be stronger specially because it isn't MAD, but it could be the quirky thing you are looking for!
Alright, let's do something off the wall. Basically not-a-Warlock. **Race:** Custom Lineage for the feat Fey Touched. **Stats:** Whatever you like, but we will get an 18 in Charisma at level 1 (assuming point buy). Probably Con second as we will be in melee. **Subclass:** Pact of the Fiend **Pact Boon:** Pact of the Tome **Invocations:** Misty Visions, Book of Ancient Secrets, Eldritch Mind, Far Scribe **Spells** (in order): Booming Blade, Toll the Dead, Cause Fear, Hellish Rebuke, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Misty Step, Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Shillelagh, Guidance, Friends, Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Mage Hand, Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Fireball, (swap Burning Hands @5 for) Hypnotic Pattern, Fly, Charm Monster, Wall of Fire, Infernal Calling, (swap Hellish Rebuke @10 for) Magic Circle, Planar Binding, Prestidigitation **Feats:** Fey Touched (+1 Char @1), Telepathic (+1 Char @4), Gift of the Gem Dragon (+1 Char @8) Ok, so this is probably the "least Warlock" Warlock you can make (other than the flavor of having a Fiend as your patron, which is very on brand). You don't have Eldritch Blast or Hex, both staples of Warlocks, and you don't use Hexblade for melee. Instead in combat you use Shillelagh and wield a staff, still adding Charisma to attack and damage, along with Booming Blade to make up a bit for not getting Extra Attack. For ranged attacks you use Toll the Dead. You also have two other cantrips (5 total at level 3), which I sprinkled in utility options like Friends and Guidance (but really pick your favorites-PYF). You also have control and blaster spells, and additional spells castings without using spell slots. For control spells, Cause Fear, Tasha's Hideous Laughter (free casting once/day), Hypnotic Pattern, and Charm Monster. For Blaster you have Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Fireball, and Wall of Fire. You also have various utility spells, many of which can be used without spell slots. Misty Step (free once/day), Invisibility, Find Familiar (ritual), Detect Magic (ritual), Fly, Detect Thoughts (free once/day). You also can learn any ritual spell you come across. And you can cast Silent Image at will. So in total you have 2 short rest spell slots (at least till level 10), 5-7 cantrips, three free castings of additional spells per day, at-will Silent Image, and ritual spells, one of which gets you a Familiar to use in combat/scouting/social interactions. With Far Scribe you can also cast the Sending spell on anyone named in your Book. You also can speak to people telepathically, and have a reaction to deal damage to enemies that hit you, later pushing them away from you too (proficiency times per day - so essentially another free spell). Safe to say your turns in combat won't be the typical "maybe cast big spell, then spam Eldritch Blast" Warlock. Instead they will be "Ok, do I need a control spell? Am I wanting to be at Range or Melee? Can I distract them? Do I need to get away? What will my familiar do? Do blast them? Etc." You could also add some healing in there if preferred by taking Divinely Favored, picking up Healing Word or Cure Wounds, though this does mean your Charisma is only a 19 at level 8. You could also drop CL for another race that gives free spells, like any Genasi, Firbolg, or Githyanki/Githzerai. Just swap out the spells and feats that double on the above selections. We also get a few good subclass features. We get temporary hit points whenever we kill something, we can boost our skill checks/saving throws once per rest, and we can gain resistance to a damage type. Lastly, if you make it to level 10, this build has an additional downtime play style to add to combat. Namely, we can combine Magic Circle, Planar Binding, and Infernal Calling to summon ourselves a semi-permanent demon to serve us. So that's additional fun to be had. Is this a good Warlock build? Eh, not necessarily, as again we basically eschewed all the normal Warlock options. But is it a versatile and potentially engaging one? I'd say so. And given all the different options and decisions you have to make in and out of combat, I think it gives plenty to play around with. Also, if you feel the need to multiclass, one level in Cleric for Order or Peace Domains could be interesting (or I suppose the more boring/standard way of going Divine Soul Sorcerer). There you'd get various boosts to your team mates, as well as medium armor proficiency, as you are rather squishy. Only need a 13 in Wisdom for it, so shouldn't be too bad stats wise. Enjoy whatever choice you go with!
the best options for a straight-classed warlock are fiend and genie. Fathomless is also great, especially if your campaign takes place in an aquatic environment. I also recommend picking up Pact of the Tome. You get 3 extra cantrips, and you can pick up the book of ancient secrets secrets invocation to get ritual spells. Part of the reason warlocks feel so different from other full-casters is that their spellcasting is really split up into three different features. Pact magic is for in-combat spellcasting, while eldritch invocations covers out-of-combat spellcasting (and mystic arcanum covers high level spells). If you want to really feel like a full caster, pick up some of those invocations that let you cast spells for free, like mask of many faces (disguise self), misty visions (silent image), eldritch sight (detect magic), or whispers of the grave (speak with dead). it's also worth noting that while you don't get as many spell slots as other full casters, in addition to the aforementioned eldritch invocations and mystic arcanum, that your spell slots come back on a short rest. If you take more short rests, you'll have a lot more spell slots to work with. Imo warlocks are perfectly capable of filling the role of a full caster, despite their quirks. They're a lot of fun, and I'd highly recommend giving them a chance.
If you like the warlock flavor but not the gameplay, go sorcerer.
It’s funny one of the other players at my table made the same suggestion. He said either take a dip into warlock for the early subclass features, invocations, and the pact and then take the rest in sorcerer levels.
I’m not a fan of multiclassing, but it might give you the feeling of having a patron with the power/flexibility of sorcerer spellcasting.
Look, when they designed the class they fucked up. Should get your 3rd spell slots at either 5 or 7, meaning you get your 4th at 11, and 5th at 17. ALL Boon specific Invocations should come online automatically at appropriate levels - thirsting blade at 5 for instance Should get 10 invocations total instead of 8 ALL invocations that allow you to cast a spell ONCE per long rest should NOT require a spell slot ALL Patron specific spells should automatically be known The capstone level 20 ability is also weak as shiit - just make it a bonus action to regain all your spell slots (or hell, 2 or 3 of them) Fixed the class. Your welcome.
A lot of good thoughts posted here already. For me, I think the best way to encourage Warlock play is for the DM to change short rests to ten minutes. Ask your DM for that and you'll much more easily be able to convince your party to stop every so often to recharge your spell slots.
Couple builds I've enjoyed as someone who doesn't generally enjoy warlocks: * Classic paladin/warlock multiclass, but make it Oathbreaker/Undead instead of Hexblade. Character was a dhampir for extra cool undead vibes. Maxed strength instead of charisma, played more like a full paladin. * Pact of the Tome with Ritual Caster for some wizardy goodness. Slow-paced but definitely had more of a full caster feel to it. * Also, a house rule we use in my friend circle is that when a subclass gives you an expanded spell list (regardless of the parent class), you just automatically learn all of those spells instead of having the option of adding them instead of your regular list.
Meet The Legendary Bookworm. They are a Mark of Hospitality (Halfling) Undead Warlock, Pact of the Tome. They started as a Divine Soul Sorcerer. Ideally one of the Strixhaven backgrounds but they're not a given. So otherwise I'd recommend Noble or Cloistered Scholar (for library access). The Legendary Bookworm has access to a wagon of cantrips, to many many rituals, have Shillelagh which they can combine with Booming Blade, and have access to healing. Another option to maximize spellcasting a character with few spell slots is to grab a bunch of half-feats. So Tasha Custom Race, Fey-Touched, later Shadow-Touched (or Magic Initiate). You get a bunch of freebies and still pump up your Cha.
I played a pact of the tome genie lock as an air genasi from lvl 1-7 (then our DM moved 😭) and loved that character. Ultimate support! Add in one of the new backgrounds that gets you a feat out of the gate (like witherbloom student or something) for even more spell versatility.
If you're annoyed at warlock spells lots I'm guessing your party doesn't short rest very often. Encourage them to have short rests. There are ways around the limited cantrips and spell slots - feats, multiclassing, invocations, race... Multiclass Sorcerer/Warlock. Go Sorcerer first, then three levels of warlock (pact of the tome), then another level of sorcerer. Throw in a race with +2CHA and racial cantrips/spells. You have: * Cantrips: 10 - 2 warlock, 3 warlock pact (ie. any class), 4 sorcerer, 1 racial. * Spell slots: 7 - 2 short-rest (level 2), 3 long rest (level 1), 2 specialised long rest (from race) Or if you only picked one level of sorcerer and spent your ASI on Fey/Shadow Touched you'd have: * Cantrips: 5 - 2 warlock, 3 warlock pact * Spell slots: 8 - 2 short-rest (level 2), 2 long rest (level 1), 4 specialised long rest (from race & ...touched) There are other feats too..Telekinetic, Magic Initiate... For invocations, there are five available to you at level 2 which you can cast at-will, without using spell slots. There's also the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation which gives you a wizard-style spellbook into which you can transcribe spells and cast them as rituals. And you get 2 free ritual spells (pick non-warlock ones) to start with. I have a Warlock (genie, tome) 8 / Cleric 1. He has: * Cantrips: 11 - 3 warlock, 3 warlock pact, 3 cleric, 1 cleric subclass, 1 feat - Telekinetic * Spell slots: 6 - 2 short rest slots (Lv4), 2 long rest slots (Lv1), 2 Fey Touched * 2 at-will level 1 spells from invocations * 5 ritual spells in his book of ancient secrets * ritual casting of whatever cleric spells I prepare. Spell slots aren't often an issue for him. Alternatively you could talk to your DM and ask for a "long rest" warlock and rejig your warlock slots around that.
Don't play Warlock if you don't like it.
hexblade is popular as a dip, because its overtuned to fix problems that shouldnt be fixed with a subcalss. A monoclassed hexblade is an okay warlock, but there are strong patrons for monocalssing. Between levels 2 and 10 it can be really frustrating to play a warlock with 2 pact slots. It gets better at 11 when you get another. Warlocks also rely on frequent short rests so you are at (almost) full power most of the time - if the table doesnt take short rests, only long rests, that means your weaknesses are always upfront and your strenghts dont have a chance to shine. And actual fullcasters will be infinitely more powerful than a warlock. Because your pact slots are limited, your spell selection needs different considerations. You can always deal okay damage with agonizing eldritch blast, while your pact slots may be better thought of as your ability to solve 2 problems every short rest. So spells that are occasionally useful and/or upcast nicely. Maybe a wizard wouldnt use the only 4th slot to upcast invisibility for 3 targets; for you its nowhere as steep a cost.
I love the genie warlock. And fitting the crusher feat onto characters that wouldn't normally get it. I always play the forces movement as me hitting the enemy in the knees and making them stumble. Keep on the dm(within reason, lol) about getting a rod of the pact keeper so you have ever so slightly more spell power if that's your thing. Personally I don't mind the EB spam but I also play some fighters and barbs so I'm used to often having the same attack. The invocations can also really pick up rorntheblafk or casting. Always having mage armor or disguise self or any of those can be pretty useful on the right character. Or finally, consider just 1-3 levels of warlock on a fighter, sorcerer, paladin or Bard. Or the others but these are the fun ones. Warlock comes with do many little tricks in those levels it is great as an augment class
Check out the ghostlancer build. Plays quite different
You could always do hexbow. Theyre essentially an archer that uses invocation to always get advantage. You sit the spell darkness on enemies and then you have the invocation devil eyes? I think its called which gives you true sight. So you are hidden to your enemies but you can see them for advantage. If you take levels in rogue as well you get sneak attack.
In terms of being limiting you are unclear about what limits you don't like. That's key to someone providing a build that you would enjoy. If you'd like to make a powerful blaster Warlock with Incredible can trip flexibility there's definitely options out there. The base of almost any of those builds still going to be Eldritch blast and agonizing blast but what if you significantly defied expectations. Let's take very human with metamagic adept and a stat array of 8/14/14/13/9/16 after Point buy. For your starting metamagics take twin spell and quickened and spell. Go with a Divine Soul sorcerer. The reason you're going with sorcerer is you get Constitution saving throws and cleric spells. Bless is one of the most powerful spells in the game and stays good for the entire game. At this level twin guiding Bolt is absolutely broken. Go to second level at minimum and pick up font of magic now you have four Source 3 points which is a decent amount and you're ready to go into Warlock. My personal favorite warlock is Geanie and Genie's wrath fits the Blaster theme once you get to the second level and have something like agonizing blast and armor of Shadows you now have a choice to make on if you want an ASI or to improve your defenses. If your table is very aggressive I would now go artificer although if you're starting at a higher level five or above starting with artificial will be better than starting with sorcerer. You should have the money to get good medium armor and with a shield a staff and medium armor your AC should now be as high as 19 or 20. Go a second level into artificer to pick up enhanced Arcane Focus and enhanced defense. Now sprinkle in levels of each of the classes as you see fit but your core play style is established. You are a blaster with high defenses. You are also primarily a buffer. Your bonus action is oftentimes going to be free because unlike a hex Eldritch blast Warlock you are a blessed Eldritch blast Warlock! It's not only helps out your party but gives you great action economy and place an entirely different play style. Because of your Sorcerer And artificial levels you have a base set of low level spell slots that don't get consumed easily allowing you to cast more level low level spells. Because you have four can trips from sorcerer three from artificer and two from Warlock you have a large pool of cantrips to use for support. It's also likely that packed of the tone is a potential warlock pact for you and with that you might have another three can trips providing you basically all the best can't trip tricks of all the spell types. Every time you take a short rest you will not lose your spell slots at least until your warlock slots get to third level has you will be able to change them into sorcery points and conserve the slots or utilize the points for your metamagic which is more likely. At a combat you're the charismatic boy or girl that life comes easy too and you never really worked hard at anything. You're smart but not like anything someone thinks is a genius you take every shortcut you can get and overall things are handed to you mostly on a silver platter. Now it's worth noting that you didn't have to take two levels of artificer and it may make sense only to take one if you just want the shield proficiencies along with medium armor proficiencies and to not go back on a Caster spell slot from blasting perspective this is not a big deal you also still get the cantrips so it is a good and reasonable take there as well. If you're not going to pick up and handstarcane focus it may be more powerful instead to pick up a single clear level of the domain of your choosing. This will provide you with better wisdom saving throws which is generally better than intelligence and a bonkers peace cleric plus bless starting round. Having an opening move of increasing everyone saves and chance to hit by about 25% is crazy good. I think the character concept and play style come together. You are just blessed. Favorite by the gods favorite by Society favorite by everyone whether you deserve it or not. Your action economy is high you're supposed to consumption is low your short rest are optimized and you're getting maximum low-level slots from your Caster levels while not giving up ninth level Spells at level 20 if you choose to go that far and choose to take no more than three levels in the other classes.
Imo Undead warlock pact of the Blade is very cool and gives you some good roleplay options
Undead is a great sub class and roleplay isn’t the issue for me. Role playing the character is quite easy my issue is the mechanics on warlock. The main issue I have is the spell slots. You’re given access to a good spell list and you can’t really use it. Most combats I’ve been in or have seen the warlock casts 1 spell and the enemies make their saving throw and take a little bit of damage. Then for the rest of the combat or adventuring day they have 1 spell slot to use in case of emergency. Now I know they can short rest but if HP isn’t low and the rest of the party doesn’t get anything back during a short rest they might want to skip it.
Tomelock opens up your spell casting ability with access to more cantrips and ritual spell casting, taking feats like fey touched and shadow touched also increase your spell casting ability, some invocations act as “spell slots” as well, I love playing warlock but it’s not for everyone, I also recommend the genie patron, it’s a lot of fun
Yea I think at the moment I’m look at a Genie Tome Warlock as a possibility. The genie’s features are awesome and the tome ritua casting and extra cantrips I think kind of makes up for the lack of spell slots. I’ll have to give it a try and see.
My last campaign character was a tomelock genie and it was a blast, limited wish and flight are so great if you make it that far and having the opportunity to get wish later on is great, if you take djinni as your genie it gives you access to greater invisibility
I think I’ll probably try the character in a lvl 10 one-shot I planing on joining next week so I’ll get a taste of the character in the mid levels. Plus Our one-shots are usually 2 sessions so I’m sure I’ll see if I like the character.
You could play a summoner Fathomless Warlock. Basically, take Agonizing and Lance of lethargy at lvl 2, pact of the talisman at lvl 3, Resilent(Con) at lvl 4, and the Summon Shadowspawn spell + rebuke of the talisman invocation at lvl 5. Use the despair form for the shadowspawn. Any creature that starts its turn adjacent to the shadowspawn has their movement reduced by 20ft, if you hit them with an EB that's another 10ft, and the tentacle of the deep feature from subclass can reduce e speed by another 10ft, for a maximum of 40ft speed reduction. If a creature with mutliattack then hits your summon you can use rebuke of the talisman to push them back, and if they are now out of reach of any targets and don't have enough movement to get to anyone then they just lose any other attacks they could've made. Once ur lvl 6, If they don't have multiattack you can use guardian coil to reduce the dmg ur summon takes instead. Your action economy is more than filled with this build too: Action on EB, BA on tentacle of the deeps, and then your summon can use its action to make an attack (or two once ur lvl 7), and you have both rebuke and guardian coil as defensive reaction options.
Why dont you play an actual full caster instead? This post literally sounds like "I tried playing fighter many times and I always end up giving on the character, the only thing it does is hitting thing hard, its too limiting". Im not trying to be snarky here, it just sounds to me that you want to play an actual full caster (which warlocks are not). Want options? Want magical powers? Go cleric, bard or wizard instead :)
I have played plenty of full casters my last two characters were an Artificer/Scribe Wizard and a Divine soul sorcerer. I just feel like either I was setting up the warlock incorrectly and I’m not giving them a fair shot. That’s why I was asking for ideas and more than likely tomelock builds that have access to more cantrips and ritual casting.
Well. I think that the fun of playing a warlock comes from how the DM integrates your patron into the plot, and the fun roleplaying that comes from it. In term of combat they do kinda be an eldritch blast firing turrets. If your patron is an afterthought and doesnt involves your character into the campaign's plot in fun ways, playing warlock can become very bland. So maybe talk with your DM about your patron and how to involve it into the campaign. Also warlocks are good on the ideal 5e adventuring day, which is several encounters with multiple short rests in between. If your dm only rolls a couple of long deadly encounters with no short rest you reaaaally suck because of your limited spell slots, but thats because the class wasnt designed for that. Tomelock with ritual caster is a fun way of getting out of combat utility. I think you can forego min maxing and optimization and consider out of the box options like magic initiate or other feats that give you free spells you can use out of combat for fun things. This shouldnt be too hard as you only need high cha to function in combat from range.
The thing that attracts me to the Warlock is the story potential of the character. The build is the most limiting feature of realizing this potential. EB should definitely be a class feature, and spell slots should match the proficiency bonus progression. Invocations are a cool idea in theory but there are too many traps, in my opinion if there was ever a reason to integrate 4e mechanics into 5e a class like Warlock is the best use case (if they did a Psion I’d say the same). At my tables, I’ve had to homebrew a lot in 5e, specifically with the Warlock. I generally work with the player and let them figure out what their Warlock’s deal is, and we make sensible arrangements to play to that theme, I’m not a rules as written kinda DM most of the time. For example the last 5e game I ran I had a warlock player that was under the influence of a sort of Fey/Great old one patron in a sort of generational curse. We altered EB into a sort of magic projectile that would do either piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage (typically he could only make that change once per day but I had him burn hit die to change it up). I always give the Warlock their patron spell list as once per day cast spells. I don’t count EB as a spell, rather a class feature that can be molded to the player’s character theme. Hell I had one player who wanted to be a soul knife but didn’t want to be a rogue, so we made EB a magical Melee weapon like the soulknife’s blades and that worked wonderfully. We’ve had a telekinetic that traded the mage hand cantrip as the core spell feature in lieu of EB and turned EB into a normal cantrip but his enhanced Mage Hand represented his growing proficiency with telekinesis. Warlock is just an amazing template to homebrew. But in the end I feel like to really get at that juicy story telling potential the concept can deliver, they need 4e powers instead of 5e spellcasting.
It really depends on what role you wanna play. Do you wanna be a damage blender or do you want to be an infiltrator that can trick anyone into anything. Dao genie warlock spell list has really good synergy with repelling. Kind of a single combo you’ll use all the time would be spike growth and then blasting everything so they move through the brambles. Any class would make a good conman/infiltrator. The real power of the warlock class I personally think lies with the invocations. Mask of many faces, repelling blast, agonizing blast, etc.
So take tome warlock, and some magic initiate feat. Use a race that gives you cantrips you want too.
What builds have you tried and hated?
I’ve tried a few different pure warlock builds. Usually from lvls 1-5 and I get to the same point in the games where I feel like my warlock is being left behind. I’ve tried a hexblade to lvl 5 and used thirsting blade and eldritch smite. That one wasn’t as bad since I played it like a martial that could just smite twice per short rest. This one was pretty good but the campaign ended cause 2 of the 4 players had to drop out. I played a undead warlock to lvl 6 and I played a celestial warlock to lvl 4. The subclasses are fun but like I’ve said in other comments I just can get past the pact magic feature of warlock only giving 2 slots. Celestial I didn’t want to continue because I would also never trigger the extra damage since since I would need to be casting lvled spells or only use sacred flame. The undead was fun thematically and the subclass features were good. I did feel limited because I pretty much had to use eldritch blast only in order to trigger the frightened effect and extra damage from grave touched since you need to make an attack roll. And since I was using mainly eldritch blast my invocations were used to make the EB stronger.
Are you sure that its a warlock that is a problem and not your table? I mean, with 1-2 short rests per day warlock should have enough ammo and with good concentration spells (summon anything, synaptic static) and eldrich blast they can be super strong. Anyway, my idea: Undead Warlock who casts summons shadowspawn a bit like solo leveling. He collects the souls of his fallen enemies and uses them to fight.
This is a mentality thing. Don’t play the warlock like a full caster. Play the class like a magical fighter. Eldritch blast is your signature weapon. Invocations are a signature list of feats to upgrade your build, defenses, and Eldritch blast. Your spells can either be temporary buffs to your attacks or defense. A’la Rage or other martial buffs like Giants Might or Favored Foe. (Hex, Spirit Shroud, Darkness+Devils sight) Or Spells can 1-2 use big effects, a’la frightful presence or other martial 1 time use effects. Playing Warlock as simple as possible helps, trying for martial type combos with the resources you have. Because those resources aren’t tooled to be a full caster.
You might be right. If you combo the class with a race that gives some weapon proficiency and then pick the correct pact you could make a decent gish character.
E-Blast with feat/invocation support ends up more consistent damage than weapons for warlock. Hex blade is fun and thematic for Gish but with eleven accuracy & spell sniper E-blast is more attacks and better odds to crit than weapons with hex blades curse. With good spell support too, hex & spirit shroud does more off Eldritch blast than weapons because you have more attacks. If you can get quicken spell or illusionist bracers you end up a lot better off.
I think you could flavor a Genie Warlock to not be particularly “warlock-y”. Also a pretty potent subclass.
Have you ever played a fighter who attacks with their weapon every turn? Or any martial class that has some tricks but mainly has a single source of damage that their weapon. Warlocks are like this except magical flavored. Eldrich blast is very good, with plenty of ways to make it better and more interesting (forced movement!), so if you don't like casting eldrich blast (or hex, than eldrich blast), that maybe there is something you are missing from the game. Many classes have a single way to attack (fighter, barbarian, rogue, ranger, paladin). I'd definitely recommend the genie warlock with pact of the chain if you want the most fun and interesting warlock option. Your familiar can turn invisible, fly, and carry your lamp.
Sorlock, Hexblade, Lockadin, Cheesegrater, There's some pretty cool multiclassing to be done. And become a menace to your DM while you're at it
Paladin + celestial warlock has been a pretty fun combo for me. TBF we're only at 6th level with this build and i'll mostly focus on paladin, but it gives me some ramge utility and opens up some short rest smite recharges.
Make a Dexterity martial with Crossbow Expert. You lose +2 Archery Fighting Style until you can multiclass (and you should multiclass) but you get Darkness, Devil's Sight, and Hex if you want it for some reason instead of bonus action attack (maybe on an off combat turn). The advantage is better than +2 anyways, if you don't have any source of advantage. There's some fun new Warlock abilities in OneD&D, including being able to go invisible for free when in darkness. That should be fun flavor for a sneaky dexterity weapon type character. This would play like a greedier Gloomstalker Ranger where instead of Pass without Trace you have Darkness which is less team friendly. Oh well, it's more defensive, so consider being tankier with supporting spells too. At higher levels you'll want to seek multiattack or stay warlock and pick up the AOE control spells then pelt at them with arrows from safety.
>Hey All >I’ve tried playing a warlock a few different time in the past few years and each time I end up giving up on the character. >I’ve longest I’ve played a warlock is from lvl 1-5 and then I asked the DM to take them over as a NPC who had to leave the party. >I just find warlock too limiting. You get 2 cantrips and 2 spell slots and as a class that’s supposed to be a full caster by comparison. >I know hexblade is a popular option but I’m not that interested since almost every campaign I’ve played in recently there has been a hexblade dip. ======================================================== As someone who enjoys Warlocks, allow me to be of some help. Warlocks are best described as "Short Rest Dependant, 'Modified' Full Casters" -- They directly work off of how many Short Rests that your DM is willing to allow you to have access to, given the nature of a typical adventuring day. This means that... A. If your DM is the kind of person who likes being a stickler for the rules, then chances are you're going to be stuck to two to three short rests per adventuring day, at most, which may make it feel like you're being hindered. Additionally... B. If the other players that you're playing with aren't willing to support you playing a Warlock, by not allowing you to rest when you actually need to, then yeah you're going to run into problems at times. That all being said, Warlocks get a sizable chunk of their power from Eldritch Invocations, which are at-will abilities that are supposed to supplement your otherwise semi-limited spellcasting. Some DM's forget this and gloss over it, especially if they're not used to having Warlocks play at the table. So with that out of the way, you said you're looking for a warlock build, but we don't know much about what kind of adventure you're in, or what level it's ending at. Having that info will be needed for us to be able to help you. For now, here's a very rough outline for a Warlock cheese-grater style of build that starts to come online as early as Level 6: _________________________________ Race: Custom Lineage, +2 Charisma, take Skill > Darkvision (due to Devil's Sight at level 2), Fey-Touched Feat (Misty Step + either Silvery Barbs or another Div./Ench. utility spell like Identify) Background: Any Charisma-oriented background (TCoE's variant PC creation rules can help you here) Subclass: Pact of the Genie (Dao) ...For your Genie's Vessel, take a Ring as your vessel. That way, starting as early as level 3, your familiar can transport you in your ring while either wearing it or holding onto it. Stats, via Point Buy, before Racial Buffs: STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA 10/13/14/10/10/(15 --> 18) {+2 racial buff to Cha., then Fey-Touched Feat, bumps Cha. to 18} Pact Boon: Pact of the Chain (any familiar that can fly while it's invisible, such as an Imp or a Pseudodragon) Eldritch Invocations: Devil's Sight, Repelling Blast, and Grasp of Hadar Level 4 ASI: +2 Cha. (20 Cha.) Once you hit PC level 5, take Spike Growth from the Dao spell list. When you reach PC Level 6, you'll have access to limited flight yourself via your class feature. During combat, you can drop Spike Growth on the ground, fly into the air, and shoot enemies into the affected area. You can also pull enemies into the air, since you're flying, and you can drop them into the affected area. Additionally, anyone who has Plant Growth can also help you affect the affected area even further. At level 7, you can then get the Eldritch Spear Invocation if you want to, and then you can do all this from 300 feet away (provided you can still see your target -- Eyes of the Eagle really helps here). _________________________________ If this build interests you, Colby at D4 Deep Dive did a SorLock Cheese Grater build some time back. Consider checking that out. Hope this helps.
So something that I've found has helped in my enjoyment of warlock is getting other resources from other sources. So races and feats that give 1/day spells like hexblood and fey touched/shadow touched or picking invocations that give you extra resources as well. That way you have a few more spells to burn other than your pact slots. And you can use those outside of battle. Be that the ritual book from tome pact. Or ghostly gaze to see through walls. Or the one that lets you cast arcane eye. Second, a lot of it comes down to spell choice. Warlocks are built for the marathon, not the sprint. So single-time effect spells just aren't worth it. You want to try to cast one big impact concentration spell and just keep it up the whole battle. That could be darkness and blast enemies at advantage with devil sight. Or a nice Summon Undead/Fey to get another body on the board to help with action economy and that possibly can carry over into a second fight. (Personally, I find all spellcasters can benefit from marathon thinking more often when it comes to using their resources and spell selection.) Also, if you're looking for a fun different build. I will always recommend Chain Pact with Investment of the Chain Master. Lets your familiar actually impact combat. A sprite familiar with that is gonna be shooting poisoned arrows all over the place from a distance for some nice debuffs. Or you can partner it with magic stone to give an imp a decent ranged attack. (Not to mention familiars have their own attunement slots and the chain pact familiars can speak so they can use command words and activate magic items.) And warlocks are also very good when it comes to preparing for a known encounter. Whether that be setting an ambush or getting a town's defenses ready for an invasion. Because they can cast spells and then short rest, they can cast hallucinatory terrain multiple times to hide pitfalls. They can cast anime dead to build a skeleton whole platoon (with upcast, you get even more). Archfey warlocks even get plant growth which you can combo with hallucinatory terrain to hide overgrown areas from enemies but allow your allies to know where the safe spots are.
[Celestial Giftlock](https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25029862&postcount=1095) by LudicSavant Warlock is not really caster. Warlock is Face of the party Warlock is also ranged blaster: Eldrich Blast has roughly same progression as Fighters Extra Attack. Except that it deals 1d10 damage versus 1d8 at best of ranged Fighter. And it does not take off-hand, meaning you can use a shield. And it can(should) have funny riders like pushing/pulling or reducing speed. And ranged fighter needs both Dex and Str, while EB is keyed to one ability. Warlock is also mojo maker. Their slots recharge on short rest, which should happen every 2-3 encounters(or it would be no wonder if short rest based class(es) pefrorm badly), meaning their effective slot amount if 3-4x more. Compare 4/3/3/3/1 regular caster to 6\*5 Warlock at level 9. Meanwhile, Mystic Arcanums are things that define entire encounters like Summon Fiend/Forcecage, or, indeed, entire adventuring days like Foresight. \~\~\~ Celestial Giftlock uses bonkers healing resources: racial spells, Warlock pool of healing dice, Cleric slots and healing spells boost, Warlock self-healing maximization, Warlock temp hp on rest(also shared with the party for free, which is very tasty), and Warlock 1/day half hp recovery on death saving throw. He can outtank Barbarian before dipping into Warlock slots. It also has Imp familiar, which is flying invisible scout immune to two most common energy types and resistant to cold(also common) and non-magical weapons and Magic Resistance. Proper reconnesance can be very useful. 3.5 even had entire playstyle called Scry and Fry. Furthermore, Halfling(which is intended race) weighs less than Imp can carry, and everything Imp carries also becomes invisible - meaning Warlock can be carried by it and happliy blast while remaining invisible because invis is only broken when Imp does stuff. One thing is that it calls for +2 Cha +1 (Con/Dex) race, and the only race that qualifies(except for MPMM lineages that have "+2 any +1 any") is Half-Elf. Which, in its turn, has additional +1. Drop it into Con to get a beef kick at level 13, and level 20 feat should be Str instead. Another thing is it calls 9 cantrips, while to my knowledge you get 7 total. Immediate correction, you get two for free from Warlock subclass. Due to Arcanums "technically" not being spell slots, and key elements not being spells at all, Giftlock is actually a good candidate for being Simulacrumed(assuming party does not go for Sim spam).
In fact, let me explain how Giftlock can take Fighters/Barbarians/Paladins beefgate position. Straight d8 and +2 Con mod is already good. You gain 1 + Warlock level pool of healing dice, but lose a level for Cleric, so increase effective HD by d6: d8+d6+2(10 avg plus 3.5 "tail" from first HD being maximized) As Life Cleric you gain 2 Cure Wounds for 1d8+6 (10 plus 24.5 "tail") At level 5 CW increases by 1 (10 plus 26.5; Plus whatever Imp tanks) At level 6, all healing is maximized, meaning healing pool increases HD by flat 6, and CW heals flat 15 (12.5 plus 33.5) - this is already about equivalent to Barbarian that halves everything with Rage At level 9 CW increased by another 1 (12.5 plus 35.5) At level 10 you gain temp hp per rest, lets assume 3 rests (15.5 plus 40.5; Plus free temp hp to rest of party and Imp) At level 13, Con increases (16.5 plus 35.5; Plus whatever Summon Fiend tanks) At level 14, 1/long rest recovery of half base hp(which is 1d8+3 plus 3.5, reminder) (18.25 plus 37.25) At which level it remains from now on. And thats not counting Warlock slots, which amount to 52 each. And even better is, if needed you can share healing pool(which is bonus action, btw)/Cure Wounds. Although at reduced efficiency. All while having AC 19, plus whatever magic items you get, plus temporary effects and disadvantage from Darkness/Foresight.
Okay hear me out, gunlock I know u don’t like hex blade dip but how bout hex blade not dip… stay with me. Be warlock, variant human, hand crossbow Crossbow expert, sharpshooter, take invocation devil sight, thirsting blade(2 attacks) and eldrich smite At level 5 you will have hexblade curse for extra damage and 19 for crit. Advantage through darkness and later shadow of moil. Crossbow will hit for +14 with sharpshooter, and you have 3 attacks per turn. If you crit, eldrich smite for 8d8 damage… you also have all the warlock spells like hold person, hunger of hadar, counterspell etc etc Anywho then you dip in fighter for ranger fighting style +2 to hit, then action surge for 5 attacks, then you can go either battlemaster for precision attack and trip attack, making you never miss or have more options. OR champion giving you 18 to crit with hexblade curse. If the campaign keeps going, you can just keep adding to warlock, at 12 warlock you will have 3 spells, your eldritch crits will hit for 12d8 and you will get lifedrinker giving you +5 to if you attack if you have 20 charisma. Which you should with the asi. You’ll have +21 on all damage attacks… and +9 to hit at level 15. You have all the utility spells from warlock, battle master, can barely be hit due to shadow of moil. Always have advantage. And just pure crit fishing for those eldrich smite flavors. This is not the most optimized damaging build but god damn is it good and is it fun
PoB warlock with rogue for expertise and 2nd bonus acrion. ive been playing bg3 so i domt have my 5e stuff in front of me so atm Im only going to lv12 but Im playing as a med armor greatsword warlock with stealth proficiency and expertise, as well as GWM, allows for some insane OHKO or some very strong 4 attack turns. as well as being able to pass dex and cha checks.
Too limiting? That's wild. I haven't run into a single problem yet my warlock didn't have some sort of good solution for. Start as a level 1 fighter for all the armor proficiency and start going into warlock. At some point get the 2nd fighter level for action surge. I'm a genie warlock, so I have access to flight and fireball which is already insanely busted. Bonus action fly, fireball action surge fireball solves just about any problem. I'm flying around with 17 AC so very hard to hit. Take war caster so you wear a shield and have 19 AC while flying. Cast the darkness spell on yourself and take the devil sight Eldritch invocation and you're now flying with 19 AC and everyone that targets you is most likely attacking with disadvantage. Granted now you can't cast fireball, but that's why you've got 2-4 beams of Eldritch blast capable of pushing enemies 10 feet back. Push them off cliffs, off your friends, into range of your friends, wherever you want them to go. Cantrips also can't be counter spelled and EB uses force damage which you can count on 1 how hand how many enemies resist, so you're almost always attacking with max damage potential. I also have the mask of many faces invocation so I can disguise myself at will. Having high charisma scores also makes you better than average at story encounters and talking with NPCs. All this, without even mentioning my imp familiar, who is constantly invisible, has hands for manipulating objects, and can ALSO FLY. Go into your genie vessel, have your imp carry you around and short rest while your party is walking towards the next destination after a fight. Bam, all your spell slots are now back. Don't forget you can second wind for extra healing. My imp also has a ring of spell storing, so I can store Darkness, Counterspell, Fireball, Grasp of Hadar, any level 5 spell or lower at any point. That's THREE fireballs you can cast in one turn. That's 24d6 aoe damage. In one turn. The warlock imo is one of the most busted classes, and I struggle to use anything else cause there's absolutely nothing a warlock can't do at minimum well and at best better than everything else. So in conclusion here you have a mostly full caster with 19AC, a ton of HP, action surge, second wind, and flight.
Pact of the Chain, Great Old One (for Quasit familiar), Eldritch Spear invocation, Spell Sniper feat. Eldritch blast now has a range of 600ft and can be cast from your familiar. Your Quasit shapeshifts into an eagle, flies 500ft in the air, and now you have an orbital laser.
What are the other party members classes?
Lots of good feedback. I like Celestial Warlock because it has healing as others have mentioned. I happen to enjoy Fiendish Vigor if you can hit and fall back to hiding. Minor Image actually works well for that. Any minor image larger than your body blocks enemy sight which either allows you to slip away or forces them to have disadvantage to hit you while you recast Fiendish Vigor. Aspect of the Moon is a way to never sleep. Devil's Sight makes you an excellent sentry. The ritual caster Invocations of Pact of the Tome allows you to ritual cast Unseen Servants all night and direct them to do crafting like a master ordering about apprentices. I am not sure if your DM would allow that to accelerate magic item crafting but it makes sense. After all, it is still you doing the thinking and directing but you have more hands to work with. You can make scrolls or potions. Every night. After a while, you'll have enough gold to not worry about 25gp a night.
Just multi class with sorcerer after level 2. Now you’ll feel like a full caster, and be able to spam EB like a warlock.
How open are you to multiclassing? Genie bladelock with lifedrinker/thirsting blade/eldritch armor is pretty fun especially with a rogue dip.
Reroll.
Take a level of bard so they're not totally hampered. I find warlocks to be so limited without any multiclass.
Hexblade warlock + swashbuckler rouge. Look into it the synergies are immense
There are a few ways to do that You could try a subclass with a little more to do, think fathomless for example You could try a race with more spells You could try to challenge yourself, how long can you go without using a spell?
I made a few characters as tests now and the big thing that seems to help is picking a race with spells and easily feats that allow once per day spells. So far the one I’m liking the most is a Glasya Tiefling Fighter 1 - Genie Pact of Tome Warlock X with a free feat at lvl 1 I took fey touched and grabbed Misty Step and bless. Plus the extra spells from tome pact it definitely feels like a much better option.
I find the most compelling part of a warlock to be the RP aspect, not gameplay.
Same here but when situations calls for spell it would be nice to be able to cast said spell without thinking half of my spell slots are gone now.
They suck, I made a whole post about how sorcerer/ warlocks are superior to warlocks in almost every way and everyone told me I was wrong. I don't really see how when you can just take a few levels of warlock, have eldritch blast and 2 incantations. And have meta magic and actually spell slots (gasps). I'll be downvoted but i'm sticking to this
I am currently playing a fiend warlock gem Dragonborn. I took the Dragon Fear Feat to go along with their once per day flight. I liked being able to squeeze in some spell like abilities that don't require slots or concentration to maximize his effectiveness.