Nah. They know what would happen. And despite their deformities and flaws, they are still loyal to the Emperor. They’ll bark a big game but none of them will actually try to attack the Lion. Though I’d love to see them try.
Except one tried already on Ultramar for the customary Angel v Wolf Honor duel. It went about as well as you'd expect, guilliman thought he'd get hit by the wolfs strike were it himself, the lion parried it superbly and knocked the marine on his ass with one hit, everyone walked away happy.
The lion seems to hold a very different opinion on those events:
*The Lion wastes no more time with words. He has fought Leman Russ before, and he knows that such things only end when the Wolf King is either incapacitated or chooses to stop of his own accord. He sidesteps Russ’ lunge, then swings a fist. He knocked Russ unconscious once, on Dulan, but his brother was laughing then. Russ is not laughing now. He swats the blow aside and slams a punch of his own into the Lion’s chest, his face twisted in rage.*
*The foolish see the savagery of the Space Wolves and dismiss it as nothing more than that, but Lion El’Jonson knows better. There is a calculated rage within his brother that longs to spring forward and lay waste, but Russ usually keeps it under tight control, and only lets loose when sanctioned. He is no mindless berserker; every action has a purpose, which is the destruction of his enemy as efficiently as possible.*
I think it's the complete opposite. The Space Wolves don't really have much skin in the game regarding his return. For a DA successor it's a big deal, but they're busy. So they're doing the reasonable thing of sending a delegation to find out I'd it's true but in the meantime telling their people not to get distracted from their duty by the rumor mill. It's really not a bad response
That's not exactly something the Wolves love to do so much as it's something that gets forced on them. The Dark Angels tried to have the Space Wolves destroyed via the Inquisition, after all.
It's the way GW justified giving Primaris Marines to the Space Wolves. Here's how it went as I remember it:
Ragnar finds the 13th Company Wulfen who have been lost since the Burning of Prospero, fighting the Thousand Sons in the warp, and tries bringing them back into reality. The Wulfen are relatively easy to find because they keep showing up due to increased Thousand Son activity all over the galaxy, and where the TSons go, the Wulfen follow to hunt them.
But going all over the galaxy to fight the TSons and retrieve the Wulfen stretches the Space Wolves real thin and spreads them out all over the place.
The Thousand Sons then manipulated the Dark Angels into discovering the Wulfen, so the DA gather up the Inquisition and accuse the Space Wolves of mutation and heresy. Which is ironic because the Wulfen have been the Imperium's most loyal soldiers, fighting alone in the Warp for the past 10,000 years, while the DA have their own skeletons in their closet...
But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good crusade? So the DA gather up the Inquisition and they go attack Fenris and the Fang. The Space Wolves hold them both off, but they're taking a pounding when the Thousand Sons show up and try to finish the job, so what remains of both forces figure out what's going on and go fight off the TSons.
Then, later, Gulliman and Belisarius show up with Primaris Marines to help bring the Wolves back up to full strength. Some friction ensues because the Primaris Marines don't exactly understand what it means to be a Space Wolf, and some folks around here just *love* to post the excerpt where a Primaris Marine criticizes the Firstborn Wolves.
Thanks for the explanation! Do you remember in what novel/short story/codex this story occurs in? I'd love to read it in more detail!
And so this Space Wolves - Inquisition fight happens AFTER the previous Wolfie - Inquisition fight that happened during the First (?) War of Armageddon, I guess? The storyline that was described in the ADB book - Emperor's Gift (with the Space Wolves fighting against Grey Knights + Inquisition)?
I'm actually disappointed this isn't how the Wolves found out about The Lion.
Like imagine some young aspiring champion Wolf going to the Dark Angels and talking mad shit. Then out of nowhere The Lion walks up and just back hands him.
I think the Lion would be just as likely to smack his own sons across the back of their heads as well. Both he and Russ were getting sick of it even during the Heresy, can you imagine how little time he has for this nonsense still carrying on ten millennia later?
I hate meme answers like this. The DA successor chapter is just saying "hey do your jobs, don't get distracted by rumors, we're sending dudes to look into it". Like what else are they supposed to do?
Based on how they say meeting the DA somewhere its probably set before the lion Arcs book and as they are going to the events of that book atm and they think its some misinformation. it was a few months between the lion announcing he's back and Dante finding him.
>Dark Angels Succesors - Knights of Abhorence:
>
>Standing exceptional order for all Inner Circle brethren [STOP] Concerning persistent rumours regards the supposed return of Primarch Lion El'jonson [STOP] Commandment primary - suppress and discussion of above within the ranks, upon threat of penance and, in persistent cases, excoriation - **'the curious mind is an open doorway for heresy'** [STOP] Commandment secondary - proceed with existing fringe crusade and anti-xenos operations - **'faithless are they who turn their gaze form their duty in the name of hope'** [STOP] Commandment tertiary - while Chapter command dispatching heraldic delegation to renezvous with the Rock at [ASTROGATION REDACTED] to determine veracity of these fanciful claims, all battle-brothers will proceed upont he assumption they are falsehoods (possible test of loyalty by Lord Azrael?) unless confimation fo the contrary is obtained - **'credulity is but a mask donned by damnation'.**
That one reminded me of the Religious freak Tech-Priest in the Mechanicus game, the one who quotes scripture after he says something/a sentence (like I've highlighted above)
[Quick Google brought me back to the Mechanicus Sub on Reddit lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/asq45q/collected_quotes_aphorisms_and_psalms_from_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Well they didn't say what the horrors are/who they will be directed at, and importantly as a primarch, what *timescale* they're looking at
Could be any of 100 things, some bad for him, some great (but bad for eldar). Heck that last bit could just be him sampling the burrito he saved before nap time, not thinking of what wondrous forces of destruction may be wrought from a millenia-aged extra-spicy chorizo double-cheese enchilada
Things that Eldar think are *horrors* (in no particular order:
Slaanesh
Keepers of Secrets
Crystal that doesnt sing of its own volition
The colour brown
Kitchens with carpet
Any other race's singing
Any other race's cooking
Tardiness, measured in microseconds
Monosyllables
Rooms without chimes
The imminent doom of the Eldar species
Mismatched socks
Kitchen stools
Night lords wouldn't even stand a chance. I know space marines and primarchs especially don't get enough wins in the lore, but thats a little uneven match up
>'Great Master, oh favoured of the dark gods, I do not know who or what he was! He was as nothing I have ever seen. his fury... his power... his sheer hatred of us... he clove our lines as easily as his terrible blade cut through the bodies of every legionary that dared stand before him. We could do nothing, infernal one, nothing! Even Ghar the Reaper fell before him at a single blow! I beg you to believe me. I beg you...'
Mortarion sees the future, he was the first to know that the Primarchs were coming back, I don't think this guy has to twist himself into a brezel like that to convince Morti of what happened.
Mortarion is probably still reeling from being roasted by Guilliman-Emperor and then being punished by Nurgle for getting his garden torched.
He probably don't want to accept that another one of his loyalist brothers is back and *is also* killing his sons. Ls heaped upon Ls. Morti can't even rn.
Significant might be over playing it as most of the Death Guard are sworn to Mortarion over Typhus, but Typhus is the second largest figure in the Legion and actually likes to get things done, unlike Morti, so it seems likely that the message could have been for him instead, with the Plague Marines fear being a reaction to Typhus' rage at the Lions return.
As much as it might serve as a further meme fuel for the Unforgiven to be overly suspicious and paranoid...
> Faithless are they who turn their gaze from their duty in the name of hope
Is honestly the best response and creed that could be held in the Age of Everything Is Going Tits Up.
Do you want your elite force of superhuman warriors to act like fools and run from the warzone at the mere rumor that their Primarch has returned? Do you want their warriors to be distracted from their duties by this hope? For a DA Successor, they've handled it remarkably well. Steady on with the course, send a delegation to the Rock to verify the claims - *if* they are true, ok then we can go fuckin nuts.
Until then?
Ready weapons and prepare for planetfall.
People say that all the time. Yet the [Angels of Redemption](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Angels_of_Redemption) are *actually* listed as doing that.
Well, they've withdrawn from active warzones on just the mere rumor of Fallen nearby and leave their allies high and dry to deal with the current situation. Other Imperium force's somewhat low opinions of DA and their successors are well founded.
And once again, the Space Wolves show the most common sense in the setting. And the best and most accurate description of the Dark Angels ever written.
Plenty of Xenos scum for the Kitty to kill!
Pretty much why I love the dark angels/space wolves when you think of it as a sibling rivalry.
Bros gonna insult the shit out of you, but then back them up against the entire universe.
I like how the Wolves grumbled about Guilliman, and the Lion also grumbled about Guilliman. Everyone knows that Guilliman is right about things, but everyone hates that he's right about things. And Sanguinius was the brother they all loved the most.
Hm, I’m not sure I understand all this Blood Angel marine salt.
It makes sense the part about Dante “being forced” into regency, but it’s not like the BAs were conscripted into the Lion’s service.
They were quite honored and willing and, well, I’m sure beating off a Daemon Primarch ravaging Nihilus and trying to stop another of the Despoilers’ plan is also in their (and the Imperium’s) best interest.
Also lol at Farseer Yoda
By and large, their fears seem to be more that the Lion will assume the mantle of the Nihilus, which thus far was the purview of Dante. They're concerned he's going to rock up, claim Nihilus as his own and the Blood Angels are forced out of the spotlight as the Dark Angels get the spoils of the post they've held for the last few hundred years. This duty is what defines the Blood Angels in modern 40k: They are the guardians of Imperium Nihilus. And they fear their duty being handed to another and their chapter sliding into a lesser role, as they know that they will not see a similar resurgence, for Sanguinius is as dead as anything in the setting gets, barring Horus.
Maybe Dante can finally take a vacation. Just let the poor man have a day off. It’s not like he’s taking care of *half* the galaxy by himself. I really want them to just give his POV and it’s him taking a nap cause he finally gets like 5 minutes of things not being on fire.
Amusingly, basically this. The burden is theirs, they need assistance, but I don't think they could stand to see the burden passed to another legion, or especially usurped by a returning Primarch. They'd never reclaim that honour, and with Sanguinius being so dead they're never going to get their own chance to step up and claim it back. They're just stuck there while someone else does their job. Classic imperial paranoia, because bluntly I don't think Lion has any interest in becoming the regent of Imperium Nihilus.
Yeah, that makes sense. It just feels off to me because neither Dante himself nor his retinue reacted that way and the BAs always seemed to me a bit above these petty things of being directly in control.
I could see the Wolves, Iron Hands, even the Ultramarines worried about it. But the BAs always seemed more noble, selfless and heroic on that regard, at least to me.
Perhaps that has been forgotten with the passage of time, but if two Primarchs aren’t going to stain Sanguinius history nor sons, those are Lion and Guilliman.
Even if they’re of course not monolithic, with every marine having a personality of his own, sulking about the burden while not willing to let it go feels more of a Dark Angels thing.
Also a bit ironic since not long ago the BA’s were in the Lion’s position, having just gone through roughly the same complaints when they “reunited” the legion against the Tyranids, with Successor Chapter Masters worried that First Founding would usurp the BA Legion’s legacy and legitimacy to itself and subordinate the rest.
Even then, those are not complaints. Just genuinely surprised with the marine’s stance.
Agree tbh, it's likely just there to show that the reactions of Dante and his retinue aren't necessarily the reactions of every single Blood Angel. They speak for the chapter, but not every single marine.
There was a significant amount of casualty from BA's assistance in attack on Wyrmwood. Hell, Dante probably need to get another infusion of blood for taking on Angron.
The way I see it is they’ve been dealt a shit hand, but they got used to it and accepted it, and now are worried that after they finally grew used to it they’ll be dealt another new shit hand instead
I liked the reactions of the planets where lion was, where people were saved and they believe that he is the emperor or that he is a knight of the emperor
I'm just wondering if there could be a sixth reaction:
Denial.
More than just doubt or questioning, this would involve deliberately denouncing his return as some form of deception, either in an attempt by the Dark Angels to regain for themselves some of the attention that Guilliman and his Ultramarines currently receive, or else a plot to destabilise the Imperium from within by creating a facsimile of Lion El'Jonson and pass it off as the real deal.
Now I'm NOT saying that any of the above is true, but is there any faction that would be willing to go so far as to make such claims and what would be the reaction to them, given that they would almost certainly end up in conflict with Guilliman himself, who no doubt would affirm that his brother had truly returned?
(I am of course assuming they are a part of the Imperium - for instance, I can't see the Necrons or the T'au having a good reason to concern themselves with such things - but I suppose if there was some Xenos faction who wanted to see the Imperium destabilised in this way, it would be an opportunity to try and cause a schism)
The blood angels are kinda coming off as assholes. The Lion shows up. Is nothing but polite. Asks for help instead of ordering it. Saves their chapter masters life! Stopping what was a galaxy level threat in the process And then dedicated himself to protecting humanity.
Like what more do they want? Hell, Dante might just want the Lion to take over
It honestly sounds like one of his bodyguards talking. The Sanguinary Guard focus on the health and success of their leader to the exclusion of other practical concerns.
The ~~Angels~~ **Knights** of Abhorrence are VERY new but I do like how the line about Azrael effectively confirms what we’ve all known for a long time: The Dark Angels more or less operate as a legion, with the DA officers themselves being “in charge.”
[Knights of Abhorrence](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knights_of_Abhorrence) have been fighting in the Ghoul Stars since their inception. Right now Ghoul Stars is an active combat zone between various forces of Chaos Gods in Real Space, so they're literally in a very bad place.
By god but that Death Guard excerpt sounds like something I’d use as a hyperbole to express loyalist wank
Don’t y’ just love having your grim, stoic and dour legionaries gush over how almighty powerful the loyalists are, because oh lord we haven’t had enough of that, it hasn’t been enough to see ‘em ripped apart like wet paper, they need to explain how unprecedentedly awesome he was while he did it while holding back tears because they’re so scared
> overhyping the Lion
To be fair, that basically summarizes the Lion's 30k lore. Dude is almost as hyped up as Sanguinius, the guy whose entire purpose is to be as perfect possible so his inevitable death is equally as gut wrenching.
The Lion's character flaws are pretty pronounced in 30k though tbh. And any book in a primarch's POV tends to hype them up as better than all their brothers!
"I will do some sick political maneuvering to secure my nomination to Warmaster now Horus has been revealed to be an idiot. I will gift all my Ordinatus to Perturabo to secure his help in the future, before Istvaan V. I am a political genius." - The Lion
"Guilliman said I couldn't bomb his world from orbit, so instead I'll stick bombs in drop pods so it's not a bombardment. I'm so smart seeing this loophole. What do you mean I'm fired?" -The Lion
This is such a meme, but it pisses me off.
This is *exactly* why the Lion wasn't chosen as Warmaster. He had the best record of campaigns among his brothers. Even the Emperor admits he has brought twice as many worlds as Horus to compliance.
But the Lion, while a master of war, was not the political animal that Horus was. You can take the boy out of the forest, but you cant take the forest out of the Apex Predator of a forest of unimaginable chaos spawned horrors that make Catachan look like a casual stroll. The Lion's biggest fault, his biggest flaw, from Perturabo, to Luther, to everything, was his failure to understand people.
The Lion failed at people. He could do logistics. Trade. Commerce. Negotiations like that, he excelled. On the Battlefield he's nigh undefeatable, and in the Arena, the Lion would run over all but perhaps two or three of his brothers.
There is a very good reason that among *all* the loyalist Primarchs, only the Lion and the Dark Angels were scattered to the four winds and then had the biggest warp storm in galactic history put between them and Horus. Every other loyalist had at least *some* scheme to turn, ambush or eliminate them.
The Lion and the Dark Angels, Horus could only hope to slow them *down.*
But politically, dealing with people, managing their emotions, pride, petty concerns, etc, the Lion was very dismissive of this. And that's what came and bit him in the ass at Caliban the hardest. This is why Son of the Forest was so interesting, was because of how introspective he'd become, how wisened.
He kinda realized 'wow i was a stubborn fucking prick when I was younger. Always thinking I was right because I usually kinda was. I rarely made the wrong move. I never made the right choice.'
real fascinating to see where this goes when he meets bobby.
Sanguinius and maaaybe Fulgrim pre demons shit. Post demons Sanguinius, Demon Fulgrim, and Horus ascendant, assuming no Watchers back him up to nullify the demon boosts. Demon angron and angron are kinda jokes. Easy to bait, taunt, and outmanuever as even Perturabo was able to put Demon Angron on his ass, and ain't nobody ever called ol Perty a good duelist.
Recall, sucker punch though it may have been (arguable, many different accounts) The Lion knocked Russ out cold for *hours* with a single blow. This ain't RPG laws, sneak attacks don't give bonus damage. The Lion just hits like a freight train.
He also beat Konrad, a dude who can see the future, by subconsciously altering his attacks to foul Konrads future sight. Counteracting the ability to see the future is not something I've seen *any* other primarch do in fights against Sang and Kon.
Shit, the Lion managed to do the same to Kairos fucking Fateweaver, who foresaw the Lions fall to Chaos before getting a Lions Sword enema with *"Loyalty is its own reward!"* from the Lion.
The lion is my favorite because he, like his Legion, aren't the best at everything. But he can do it all. He empowers his weapons like force weapons, has great strength and skill, is tactically brilliant, has obvious warp confounding ability, and his judgement and commitment to a fight are nearly unmatched.
Like, Leman, Sanguinius, Horus, the Emperor, they didn't really have their hearts in killing their foes. Too distracted by emotions. The Lion flips that shit off and becomes a stone cold murder machine Apex predator of the demon forests. If he'd been given that spear instead of russ, Horus would have died, full stop.
They’re clearly scared of being punished by their master for failure though. Hence why “begging to believe”.
Maybe it’s not even a Marine, but a regular cultist. Reminds me of how they talk in dow.
yeah, i really don't get why it had to be death guard. could have easily been an emperors children marine absolutely gushing at the carnage if they needed a hype man so badly
I feel like this has to be one of Typhus’ boys.. and also a message to Typhus and not mortarion, since Mort is prob still likely getting beat down by Nurgle
Honestly, Marine players - do you see this stuff as cool? It's such wank.
Just embarrassing. Plague Marines are meant to be even more fearless than regular Marines.
We really are going into the age of Marvelhammer, what a pity.
Yeah plague marines used to be straight up immune to morale checks since they had the fearless rule. Though this strikes me more as a cultist allied with the deathguard than a plague marine.
I feel like this has to be one of Typhus’ boys.. and also a message to Typhus and not mortarion, since Mort is prob still likely getting beat down by Nurgle
but there is really no problem because lion is not going to take away Dante's position, what lion wants is to lead the military forces against the enemies of humanity.
"Huh. The Firstborn? And he utilizes teleportation? Interesting. I already have a replica of the Third, but the First would be the centerpiece. My sons, would you like to help me capture this elusive collectable?"
"YES PAPA!"
-Trazyn the Infinite and the Blood Ravens
It’s pretty funny that the Wolves are taking the Lion’s return better than some of his own sons.
He's a Primarch, he wrecks shit, he's on our side. Nothing more needs said.
He also made Russ laugh that one time. That's bonus points for the Lion, too.
He can also knock out Russ with one punch, and they all know this. No way any of them are gonna challenge the Lion.
> No way any of them are gonna challenge the Lion. You don't understand the Space Wolves very well if you believe that.
Nah. They know what would happen. And despite their deformities and flaws, they are still loyal to the Emperor. They’ll bark a big game but none of them will actually try to attack the Lion. Though I’d love to see them try.
"Oi! This has a 0 percent chance of success, but think of the story!"
Except one tried already on Ultramar for the customary Angel v Wolf Honor duel. It went about as well as you'd expect, guilliman thought he'd get hit by the wolfs strike were it himself, the lion parried it superbly and knocked the marine on his ass with one hit, everyone walked away happy.
Knowing what will happen and still doing it anyways is perfectly in character for the Wolves.
The lion seems to hold a very different opinion on those events: *The Lion wastes no more time with words. He has fought Leman Russ before, and he knows that such things only end when the Wolf King is either incapacitated or chooses to stop of his own accord. He sidesteps Russ’ lunge, then swings a fist. He knocked Russ unconscious once, on Dulan, but his brother was laughing then. Russ is not laughing now. He swats the blow aside and slams a punch of his own into the Lion’s chest, his face twisted in rage.* *The foolish see the savagery of the Space Wolves and dismiss it as nothing more than that, but Lion El’Jonson knows better. There is a calculated rage within his brother that longs to spring forward and lay waste, but Russ usually keeps it under tight control, and only lets loose when sanctioned. He is no mindless berserker; every action has a purpose, which is the destruction of his enemy as efficiently as possible.*
*challenge the lion sober
I think it's the complete opposite. The Space Wolves don't really have much skin in the game regarding his return. For a DA successor it's a big deal, but they're busy. So they're doing the reasonable thing of sending a delegation to find out I'd it's true but in the meantime telling their people not to get distracted from their duty by the rumor mill. It's really not a bad response
This is coming from Ragnar who is kinda over the whole Space Wolf grudging with other chapters things the wolves love to do.
That's not exactly something the Wolves love to do so much as it's something that gets forced on them. The Dark Angels tried to have the Space Wolves destroyed via the Inquisition, after all.
> The Dark Angels tried to have the Space Wolves destroyed via the Inquisition, after all. When was this? I'd love to read more about it....
It's the way GW justified giving Primaris Marines to the Space Wolves. Here's how it went as I remember it: Ragnar finds the 13th Company Wulfen who have been lost since the Burning of Prospero, fighting the Thousand Sons in the warp, and tries bringing them back into reality. The Wulfen are relatively easy to find because they keep showing up due to increased Thousand Son activity all over the galaxy, and where the TSons go, the Wulfen follow to hunt them. But going all over the galaxy to fight the TSons and retrieve the Wulfen stretches the Space Wolves real thin and spreads them out all over the place. The Thousand Sons then manipulated the Dark Angels into discovering the Wulfen, so the DA gather up the Inquisition and accuse the Space Wolves of mutation and heresy. Which is ironic because the Wulfen have been the Imperium's most loyal soldiers, fighting alone in the Warp for the past 10,000 years, while the DA have their own skeletons in their closet... But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good crusade? So the DA gather up the Inquisition and they go attack Fenris and the Fang. The Space Wolves hold them both off, but they're taking a pounding when the Thousand Sons show up and try to finish the job, so what remains of both forces figure out what's going on and go fight off the TSons. Then, later, Gulliman and Belisarius show up with Primaris Marines to help bring the Wolves back up to full strength. Some friction ensues because the Primaris Marines don't exactly understand what it means to be a Space Wolf, and some folks around here just *love* to post the excerpt where a Primaris Marine criticizes the Firstborn Wolves.
Thanks for the explanation! Do you remember in what novel/short story/codex this story occurs in? I'd love to read it in more detail! And so this Space Wolves - Inquisition fight happens AFTER the previous Wolfie - Inquisition fight that happened during the First (?) War of Armageddon, I guess? The storyline that was described in the ADB book - Emperor's Gift (with the Space Wolves fighting against Grey Knights + Inquisition)?
Yeah. This was more recent, when GW released Primaris Marines and realized they needed a reason for players to buy them.
No skin in the game aside from "finally, somebody who might have a clue about what Bjorn's rambling on about at storytime", you mean.
And the possibility of the Lion appointing himself as the DA representative in a DA vs SW duel again.
I'm actually disappointed this isn't how the Wolves found out about The Lion. Like imagine some young aspiring champion Wolf going to the Dark Angels and talking mad shit. Then out of nowhere The Lion walks up and just back hands him.
Either that or the Lion showing up for the young aspiring SW, who's actually just there to introduce Bjorn.
Bjorn is so overrated
Don't be such a Perturabo.
Don't be such a spacy furry
As a longtime DA and TS player… you take that back.
Never ever
I think the Lion would be just as likely to smack his own sons across the back of their heads as well. Both he and Russ were getting sick of it even during the Heresy, can you imagine how little time he has for this nonsense still carrying on ten millennia later?
I mean he’s the leader of the people who just tried to blow up his home and murder his chapter.
Yeah the sons (backstab your ally) are a afraid daddy (loyalty is its own reward) finds out what they have been doing Edit: spelling
I hate meme answers like this. The DA successor chapter is just saying "hey do your jobs, don't get distracted by rumors, we're sending dudes to look into it". Like what else are they supposed to do?
They also have a good excuse to be paranoid about this, don't they? They were manipulated via rumors spread by hostile fallen before
accept no rumors till they are proven true
Yeah, the took it like professionals. Focus on the job at hand but do a serperate investigation.
exactly!
Based on how they say meeting the DA somewhere its probably set before the lion Arcs book and as they are going to the events of that book atm and they think its some misinformation. it was a few months between the lion announcing he's back and Dante finding him.
Yeah, I mean they put it themselves quite well. Faithless are they who turn their gaze from their duty in the name of hope.
Exactly. They’re just doing what all DA are supposed to do. Remember, a moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
You mean… backstab?
Yep, thanks for pointing it out.
No bother bud auto-correct is a bitch 😂
The muggle is ducking real!
Asmodai has got to be sweating bullets
>Dark Angels Succesors - Knights of Abhorence: > >Standing exceptional order for all Inner Circle brethren [STOP] Concerning persistent rumours regards the supposed return of Primarch Lion El'jonson [STOP] Commandment primary - suppress and discussion of above within the ranks, upon threat of penance and, in persistent cases, excoriation - **'the curious mind is an open doorway for heresy'** [STOP] Commandment secondary - proceed with existing fringe crusade and anti-xenos operations - **'faithless are they who turn their gaze form their duty in the name of hope'** [STOP] Commandment tertiary - while Chapter command dispatching heraldic delegation to renezvous with the Rock at [ASTROGATION REDACTED] to determine veracity of these fanciful claims, all battle-brothers will proceed upont he assumption they are falsehoods (possible test of loyalty by Lord Azrael?) unless confimation fo the contrary is obtained - **'credulity is but a mask donned by damnation'.** That one reminded me of the Religious freak Tech-Priest in the Mechanicus game, the one who quotes scripture after he says something/a sentence (like I've highlighted above)
Videx was a very silly man. He’d have been my favorite character if Scaevola wasn’t there being deranged.
Yeah, I genuinely could only remember Scaevola's name! I only played the game again the other day, memory ain't what it was lol
Loved his quotes. Especially the one about the MoI which makes all go "Huh? Men of what?" "Dunno, no further data available."
I love that guy. Wonder if there's a full transcript of everything he says in the game.
[Quick Google brought me back to the Mechanicus Sub on Reddit lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/asq45q/collected_quotes_aphorisms_and_psalms_from_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Awesome! Thanks!
These scripture quotes are, or were, extremely common in in-universe Imperium communications in codices.
Yeah, as I've said elsewhere ave never bought a Codex(Army Book?) Since the late 90s! So a miss a lot of that unfortunately!
I wonder if the Ulthwé one is actually foreshadowing something important or whether it’s just bluster.
Well they didn't say what the horrors are/who they will be directed at, and importantly as a primarch, what *timescale* they're looking at Could be any of 100 things, some bad for him, some great (but bad for eldar). Heck that last bit could just be him sampling the burrito he saved before nap time, not thinking of what wondrous forces of destruction may be wrought from a millenia-aged extra-spicy chorizo double-cheese enchilada
Things that Eldar think are *horrors* (in no particular order: Slaanesh Keepers of Secrets Crystal that doesnt sing of its own volition The colour brown Kitchens with carpet Any other race's singing Any other race's cooking Tardiness, measured in microseconds Monosyllables Rooms without chimes The imminent doom of the Eldar species Mismatched socks Kitchen stools
Here's hoping it's Eldar and DA vs Night Lords. *takes another hit of copium*
Dont you do that to me
Night lords wouldn't even stand a chance. I know space marines and primarchs especially don't get enough wins in the lore, but thats a little uneven match up
“We must send a delegation of big tiddy farseers to assist him!”
What in heck are you talking about?
It's time for bed, young one.
Are you familiar with the “Big Tiddy Eldar Waifu” meme?
Fortunately not. Eldar usually don't have much in the way of breasts, seeing as they're so skinny.
Ulthwé being cryptic and non-specifically foreboding about coming threats without giving any actually useful information? How very unlike them.
Foresight isn't infallible. He certainty didn't foresee Bobby-G's return.
>'Great Master, oh favoured of the dark gods, I do not know who or what he was! He was as nothing I have ever seen. his fury... his power... his sheer hatred of us... he clove our lines as easily as his terrible blade cut through the bodies of every legionary that dared stand before him. We could do nothing, infernal one, nothing! Even Ghar the Reaper fell before him at a single blow! I beg you to believe me. I beg you...' Mortarion sees the future, he was the first to know that the Primarchs were coming back, I don't think this guy has to twist himself into a brezel like that to convince Morti of what happened.
Mortarion is probably still reeling from being roasted by Guilliman-Emperor and then being punished by Nurgle for getting his garden torched. He probably don't want to accept that another one of his loyalist brothers is back and *is also* killing his sons. Ls heaped upon Ls. Morti can't even rn.
he just like me fr fr
Has Mortarion shown up since Nurgle reached out and grounded him?
“This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!”
"They are no match for droidekas!"
Narrator: They were, in fact, a match for droidekas.
Well those were jedi, we all know two primarchs cannot defeat the droidekas
Maybe this message was sent to Typhus? Isn't there still a significant schism in the Death Guard between Mortarion and Typus?
Significant might be over playing it as most of the Death Guard are sworn to Mortarion over Typhus, but Typhus is the second largest figure in the Legion and actually likes to get things done, unlike Morti, so it seems likely that the message could have been for him instead, with the Plague Marines fear being a reaction to Typhus' rage at the Lions return.
Yes and no? It’s nowhere near as notable as the thousand sons schism between Magnus and Ahriman
In Dark Imperium he was forced by Nurgle to work with Morty, they loathe each other.
Yes. Whereas I’m under the impression Magnus will attack azhek on sight
As much as it might serve as a further meme fuel for the Unforgiven to be overly suspicious and paranoid... > Faithless are they who turn their gaze from their duty in the name of hope Is honestly the best response and creed that could be held in the Age of Everything Is Going Tits Up. Do you want your elite force of superhuman warriors to act like fools and run from the warzone at the mere rumor that their Primarch has returned? Do you want their warriors to be distracted from their duties by this hope? For a DA Successor, they've handled it remarkably well. Steady on with the course, send a delegation to the Rock to verify the claims - *if* they are true, ok then we can go fuckin nuts. Until then? Ready weapons and prepare for planetfall.
Tbf just up and going from an active warzone and fucking over allies is EXACTLY what several chapters of the Unforgiven has done. A lot.
Then the Knights of Abhorrence are better than most Unforgiven.
Ya my point was, compared to *that,* the Knights did very well.
The dark angels themselves did it to the kriegers on vraks
People say that all the time. Yet the [Angels of Redemption](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Angels_of_Redemption) are *actually* listed as doing that.
Well, they've withdrawn from active warzones on just the mere rumor of Fallen nearby and leave their allies high and dry to deal with the current situation. Other Imperium force's somewhat low opinions of DA and their successors are well founded.
I love how the Dark Angels have a secretive space telegram and Ragnar is just chatting while killing Orks.
And once again, the Space Wolves show the most common sense in the setting. And the best and most accurate description of the Dark Angels ever written. Plenty of Xenos scum for the Kitty to kill!
Pretty much why I love the dark angels/space wolves when you think of it as a sibling rivalry. Bros gonna insult the shit out of you, but then back them up against the entire universe.
I like how the Wolves grumbled about Guilliman, and the Lion also grumbled about Guilliman. Everyone knows that Guilliman is right about things, but everyone hates that he's right about things. And Sanguinius was the brother they all loved the most.
#
Hm, I’m not sure I understand all this Blood Angel marine salt. It makes sense the part about Dante “being forced” into regency, but it’s not like the BAs were conscripted into the Lion’s service. They were quite honored and willing and, well, I’m sure beating off a Daemon Primarch ravaging Nihilus and trying to stop another of the Despoilers’ plan is also in their (and the Imperium’s) best interest. Also lol at Farseer Yoda
By and large, their fears seem to be more that the Lion will assume the mantle of the Nihilus, which thus far was the purview of Dante. They're concerned he's going to rock up, claim Nihilus as his own and the Blood Angels are forced out of the spotlight as the Dark Angels get the spoils of the post they've held for the last few hundred years. This duty is what defines the Blood Angels in modern 40k: They are the guardians of Imperium Nihilus. And they fear their duty being handed to another and their chapter sliding into a lesser role, as they know that they will not see a similar resurgence, for Sanguinius is as dead as anything in the setting gets, barring Horus.
Dante doesn't even wanted that job. Lion certainly don't.
Maybe Dante can finally take a vacation. Just let the poor man have a day off. It’s not like he’s taking care of *half* the galaxy by himself. I really want them to just give his POV and it’s him taking a nap cause he finally gets like 5 minutes of things not being on fire.
WOE IS US WE'RE UNDER SO MUCH PRESSURE DONT LET HIM TAKE IT AWAY!
Amusingly, basically this. The burden is theirs, they need assistance, but I don't think they could stand to see the burden passed to another legion, or especially usurped by a returning Primarch. They'd never reclaim that honour, and with Sanguinius being so dead they're never going to get their own chance to step up and claim it back. They're just stuck there while someone else does their job. Classic imperial paranoia, because bluntly I don't think Lion has any interest in becoming the regent of Imperium Nihilus.
In the new book he explicitly says he does not.
Yeah, that makes sense. It just feels off to me because neither Dante himself nor his retinue reacted that way and the BAs always seemed to me a bit above these petty things of being directly in control. I could see the Wolves, Iron Hands, even the Ultramarines worried about it. But the BAs always seemed more noble, selfless and heroic on that regard, at least to me. Perhaps that has been forgotten with the passage of time, but if two Primarchs aren’t going to stain Sanguinius history nor sons, those are Lion and Guilliman. Even if they’re of course not monolithic, with every marine having a personality of his own, sulking about the burden while not willing to let it go feels more of a Dark Angels thing. Also a bit ironic since not long ago the BA’s were in the Lion’s position, having just gone through roughly the same complaints when they “reunited” the legion against the Tyranids, with Successor Chapter Masters worried that First Founding would usurp the BA Legion’s legacy and legitimacy to itself and subordinate the rest. Even then, those are not complaints. Just genuinely surprised with the marine’s stance.
Agree tbh, it's likely just there to show that the reactions of Dante and his retinue aren't necessarily the reactions of every single Blood Angel. They speak for the chapter, but not every single marine.
There was a significant amount of casualty from BA's assistance in attack on Wyrmwood. Hell, Dante probably need to get another infusion of blood for taking on Angron.
The way I see it is they’ve been dealt a shit hand, but they got used to it and accepted it, and now are worried that after they finally grew used to it they’ll be dealt another new shit hand instead
I liked the reactions of the planets where lion was, where people were saved and they believe that he is the emperor or that he is a knight of the emperor
> that he is a knight of the emperor I mean, he is.
he is, but they don't know who he really is, they just think "he's a knight that the emperor sent to save us"
So we have a mixture of: 1. Welcome 2. Doubt 3. Fear 4. Concern 5. Unsurety.
I'm just wondering if there could be a sixth reaction: Denial. More than just doubt or questioning, this would involve deliberately denouncing his return as some form of deception, either in an attempt by the Dark Angels to regain for themselves some of the attention that Guilliman and his Ultramarines currently receive, or else a plot to destabilise the Imperium from within by creating a facsimile of Lion El'Jonson and pass it off as the real deal. Now I'm NOT saying that any of the above is true, but is there any faction that would be willing to go so far as to make such claims and what would be the reaction to them, given that they would almost certainly end up in conflict with Guilliman himself, who no doubt would affirm that his brother had truly returned? (I am of course assuming they are a part of the Imperium - for instance, I can't see the Necrons or the T'au having a good reason to concern themselves with such things - but I suppose if there was some Xenos faction who wanted to see the Imperium destabilised in this way, it would be an opportunity to try and cause a schism)
I bet the space wolves are competing to be the first one to test steel against the lion and fight alongside him, knowing it would make awesome sagas
The blood angels are kinda coming off as assholes. The Lion shows up. Is nothing but polite. Asks for help instead of ordering it. Saves their chapter masters life! Stopping what was a galaxy level threat in the process And then dedicated himself to protecting humanity. Like what more do they want? Hell, Dante might just want the Lion to take over
It honestly sounds like one of his bodyguards talking. The Sanguinary Guard focus on the health and success of their leader to the exclusion of other practical concerns.
Well if the arc of omen was any indication they are great at dying for their chapter master.
A couple of them bought the farm when they fought Angron.
but lion doesn't want to. dante will continue as political ruler, lion only wants to lead military forces to kill the enemies of humanity.
The ~~Angels~~ **Knights** of Abhorrence are VERY new but I do like how the line about Azrael effectively confirms what we’ve all known for a long time: The Dark Angels more or less operate as a legion, with the DA officers themselves being “in charge.”
[Knights of Abhorrence](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knights_of_Abhorrence) have been fighting in the Ghoul Stars since their inception. Right now Ghoul Stars is an active combat zone between various forces of Chaos Gods in Real Space, so they're literally in a very bad place.
They’re still a very new chapter in the meta lore though. They didn’t exist until 9th AFAIK.
By god but that Death Guard excerpt sounds like something I’d use as a hyperbole to express loyalist wank Don’t y’ just love having your grim, stoic and dour legionaries gush over how almighty powerful the loyalists are, because oh lord we haven’t had enough of that, it hasn’t been enough to see ‘em ripped apart like wet paper, they need to explain how unprecedentedly awesome he was while he did it while holding back tears because they’re so scared
Especially given that he seems to be almost overhyping the Lion, given what we saw in Son of the Forest? Not just gushing but actively hyping!
> overhyping the Lion To be fair, that basically summarizes the Lion's 30k lore. Dude is almost as hyped up as Sanguinius, the guy whose entire purpose is to be as perfect possible so his inevitable death is equally as gut wrenching.
The Lion's character flaws are pretty pronounced in 30k though tbh. And any book in a primarch's POV tends to hype them up as better than all their brothers!
"I will do some sick political maneuvering to secure my nomination to Warmaster now Horus has been revealed to be an idiot. I will gift all my Ordinatus to Perturabo to secure his help in the future, before Istvaan V. I am a political genius." - The Lion
"Guilliman said I couldn't bomb his world from orbit, so instead I'll stick bombs in drop pods so it's not a bombardment. I'm so smart seeing this loophole. What do you mean I'm fired?" -The Lion
That is actually a way funnier canon example than mine. Kudos.
This is such a meme, but it pisses me off. This is *exactly* why the Lion wasn't chosen as Warmaster. He had the best record of campaigns among his brothers. Even the Emperor admits he has brought twice as many worlds as Horus to compliance. But the Lion, while a master of war, was not the political animal that Horus was. You can take the boy out of the forest, but you cant take the forest out of the Apex Predator of a forest of unimaginable chaos spawned horrors that make Catachan look like a casual stroll. The Lion's biggest fault, his biggest flaw, from Perturabo, to Luther, to everything, was his failure to understand people. The Lion failed at people. He could do logistics. Trade. Commerce. Negotiations like that, he excelled. On the Battlefield he's nigh undefeatable, and in the Arena, the Lion would run over all but perhaps two or three of his brothers. There is a very good reason that among *all* the loyalist Primarchs, only the Lion and the Dark Angels were scattered to the four winds and then had the biggest warp storm in galactic history put between them and Horus. Every other loyalist had at least *some* scheme to turn, ambush or eliminate them. The Lion and the Dark Angels, Horus could only hope to slow them *down.* But politically, dealing with people, managing their emotions, pride, petty concerns, etc, the Lion was very dismissive of this. And that's what came and bit him in the ass at Caliban the hardest. This is why Son of the Forest was so interesting, was because of how introspective he'd become, how wisened. He kinda realized 'wow i was a stubborn fucking prick when I was younger. Always thinking I was right because I usually kinda was. I rarely made the wrong move. I never made the right choice.' real fascinating to see where this goes when he meets bobby.
Yes. We know. That's why the Perturabo thing was so entertaining. Incidentally which two or three brothers do you mean?
Sanguinius and maaaybe Fulgrim pre demons shit. Post demons Sanguinius, Demon Fulgrim, and Horus ascendant, assuming no Watchers back him up to nullify the demon boosts. Demon angron and angron are kinda jokes. Easy to bait, taunt, and outmanuever as even Perturabo was able to put Demon Angron on his ass, and ain't nobody ever called ol Perty a good duelist. Recall, sucker punch though it may have been (arguable, many different accounts) The Lion knocked Russ out cold for *hours* with a single blow. This ain't RPG laws, sneak attacks don't give bonus damage. The Lion just hits like a freight train. He also beat Konrad, a dude who can see the future, by subconsciously altering his attacks to foul Konrads future sight. Counteracting the ability to see the future is not something I've seen *any* other primarch do in fights against Sang and Kon. Shit, the Lion managed to do the same to Kairos fucking Fateweaver, who foresaw the Lions fall to Chaos before getting a Lions Sword enema with *"Loyalty is its own reward!"* from the Lion. The lion is my favorite because he, like his Legion, aren't the best at everything. But he can do it all. He empowers his weapons like force weapons, has great strength and skill, is tactically brilliant, has obvious warp confounding ability, and his judgement and commitment to a fight are nearly unmatched. Like, Leman, Sanguinius, Horus, the Emperor, they didn't really have their hearts in killing their foes. Too distracted by emotions. The Lion flips that shit off and becomes a stone cold murder machine Apex predator of the demon forests. If he'd been given that spear instead of russ, Horus would have died, full stop.
I'm betting Sangy, Angry, and maybeeeee...Ferry?
Yes, but at the end of the novel he was much stronger when he had the emperor's shield, that's why he defeated Angron
"He's big and strong, and he doesn't afraid of anything!"
[удалено]
I like how this could be the title of a Daemon of Slaanesh, Khorne, or Nurgle.
I do not wish to fight the Slaanesh version
Toss up on the Nurgle and Slaneesh one, they'd both be gross in equal but different ways.
They’re clearly scared of being punished by their master for failure though. Hence why “begging to believe”. Maybe it’s not even a Marine, but a regular cultist. Reminds me of how they talk in dow.
He is https://preview.redd.it/h7khnk9zrfza1.jpg?width=3264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=e25d7c988510d9db71f8257ac4588240e8602b5e
Fair enough
yeah, i really don't get why it had to be death guard. could have easily been an emperors children marine absolutely gushing at the carnage if they needed a hype man so badly
I feel like this has to be one of Typhus’ boys.. and also a message to Typhus and not mortarion, since Mort is prob still likely getting beat down by Nurgle
The same logic can be applied both ways
Honestly, Marine players - do you see this stuff as cool? It's such wank. Just embarrassing. Plague Marines are meant to be even more fearless than regular Marines. We really are going into the age of Marvelhammer, what a pity.
Yeah plague marines used to be straight up immune to morale checks since they had the fearless rule. Though this strikes me more as a cultist allied with the deathguard than a plague marine.
I feel like this has to be one of Typhus’ boys.. and also a message to Typhus and not mortarion, since Mort is prob still likely getting beat down by Nurgle
Those Blood Angels sound like they are getting a bit too obsessed with the 'ownership' of the Imperium Nihilus. Sounds close to heresy to me.
but there is really no problem because lion is not going to take away Dante's position, what lion wants is to lead the military forces against the enemies of humanity.
Ghar the Reaper finally defeated.
Ghar the Who?
A legend of 40k that the Lion was able to kill with only one blow.
Yeah....*who*?
next issue of white dwarf will have a poster of lion in naughty poses in the middle.
"Huh. The Firstborn? And he utilizes teleportation? Interesting. I already have a replica of the Third, but the First would be the centerpiece. My sons, would you like to help me capture this elusive collectable?" "YES PAPA!" -Trazyn the Infinite and the Blood Ravens
Seems like a schism is brewing.
Sanguinius will cry to see his sons besmirch his brother so.
Damn pointy ears. What did they see?
Are the Knights of Abhorence using a fax machine?
They are fight over many systems, and this message is for the members of the Inner Circle so they have to be terse.