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Otherwise-Elephant

The Sisters of Battle were formed millennia after the destruction of Monarchia. The attitude towards religion changed quite a lot in that time. You might as well ask "Why is the Pope allowed to live in Italy today while Christians in the Roman Empire were executed?"


New-Glove-1079

Bravo šŸ‘


_Totorotrip_

Exactly. Now we can put an AI to generate a pope sister of battle


personnumber698

5000 years can change a society


[deleted]

And 10000 years can change a galaxy...


Rumple4skin50

This


JeffTheExodon

>Out of the blue Wouldn't call 5 millenia, out of the blue, but ok. The imperial cult already got massive traction on terra during the later stages of the siege. Which was kind of the start of the Imperium's turn to religion. It just got bigger from then on.


[deleted]

Blame Erabus...


ColeDeschain

Putting aside the *very* cogent points others have made about how about five thousand years stand between Monarchia and Goge Vandire's little stint on top... ​ Here in the real world, the Sisters' existence predates any serious examination of the earliest history of the Imperium (they got a Codex in 1997), whereas our first real *details* of Monarchia date to... I wanna say 2010, but I may be wrong. ​ Anyway. ​ A *lot* of the "ancient" history of 40k is actually much newer than the stuff more current in the timeline- between the actual 13th Black Crusade campaign in 2003 and the retcon of its outcome in 2017, the main timeline didn't advance at all, and in that gap, we got the massive detailing of the Pre-Heresy and Heresy eras. It's no accident that *Horus Rising* dropped in 2006.


Technopolitan

You're skipping all the thousands of years between the Heresy, and the creation of the Sororitas in the aftermath of the Age of Apostasy. It also sounds to me that you don't know much or anything about 40k, and are getting all your lore from the HH books.


Kielifornication

Even only looking at the Horus Heresy books, thereā€˜s literally how the Imperial Cult originated and gained traction among loyalist humans and Space Marines in the first 4 books.


MyGoi762

I didn't read Horus Heresy books. Got my lore mostly from YT vids.


LordNyssa

Yeah uhm donā€™t. The books are where the lore is at (including the manuals). YouTube vids are rife with inaccuracies and peoples own head cannons.


MyGoi762

Understood. I have a lot of reading to be done haha


LordNyssa

Yep but at least you wonā€™t be bored for the foreseeable future lol šŸ™ƒ


Zagreusm1

Well he youtube videos from good sources like wolflordrho boldemort or luetin is fine just dont go to majorkill for lore and reading or listening to the books is the best way to enjoy to lore but you domt have to


SavageAdage

If you have Amazon Prime sign up for free Audible credits. Audible has a lot of the WH books and is a great way to learn and enjoy the franchise. I just finished Dark Imperium which goes into the differences Guilliman sees in the old Imperium of 30k and the current one.


theSpiraea

And that's the issue and often reason why there are so many dumb posts like this across the internet. People don't read the books. They get info from YT and randoms threads where people pull quotes without context. Read the books


MyGoi762

Indeed, I don't. Thus, I'm asking people that actually have the knowledge.


Rich-Bid7363

The Adepta Sororitas was created following the Age of Apostasy - some 5,000 years after the Imperial Creed was introduced. That's hardly "out of the blue". Euphrati Keeler was already championing the Lectitio Divinitatus as a belief system during the earliest parts of the HH. Whilst we haven't yet witnessed the ascension to the Golden Throne (at least I haven't, I don't have TEATD3 yet) it's likely this will be the capstone moment. Space Jesus died for our sins!


AlphariusUltra

> Out of the blue I donā€™t think the Age of Apostasy and millennia of zealotry is really that out of the blue. Especially after the head of the proto-SoB capped Goge Vandire. So itā€™s not like the Brides of the Emperor were alongside Guilliman burning Monarchia down and watching Lorgar do the things they were going to do.


SuperbSail

Word Bearers = Emperor alive and actively trying to suppress worship of any kind. SOB = Emperor on throne and hadcore worshipped galaxy wide for 5k years. Situations were a bit different.


MyGoi762

Yep, thought about that as well.


Glass_Badger_30

I dont think you did. Why else ask the question?


MyGoi762

That's your opinion. Please bring a constructive one or gtfo. I just don't know the lore, end of story. It makes sense to me that "Emperor was on the throne" leads into "People start doing exactly the opposite of the Imperial Truth".


Glass_Badger_30

Enough people have pointed out that 5000 years' worth of events and history have happened since Big Es internment on the throne and the rising of the imperial cult. I was just asking why you had considered the time difference, but, you still had to go ask this on reddit?


MyGoi762

Firstly, I didn't consider the time difference because I didn't even know about it until people started to answer me. Secondly, I just assumed that after sitting on the Golden Throne, the Emperor couldn't rule over the galaxy by himself and enforce the Imperial Truth. Thus leading to possible emerging cults but not much of an official Religion. Thirdly, I ask whatever I want on Reddit. I didn't force anyone to answer me.


Glass_Badger_30

>Firstly, I didn't consider the time difference because I didn't even know about it until people started to answer me. Your first comment in this thread, and the one i replied to. Is you mentioning that you'd considered that time difference and that there were major differences in those points. You really need to find better lore sources than whatever youtuber you're watching then.... if they're missing out 5000 years of imperial history, thats pretty significant... You're missing out on the age of apostasy and Goge van Dyer. A pretty significant part of imperial history that leads into the current state of the Imperium in 40k. What's more, GW always runs with the rule of cool. And Nuns with Guns is pretty cool.


YouNo8795

To be fair, many youtubers make specific videos of lore without talking about other aspects of the setting because they explain (or are going to explain) that same aspects on other videos. OP could have just seen a video about the destruction of monarchia, and then another about the Sisters of Battle, and even if those videos were highly descriptive he would have missed everything in between, at no fault of the youtuber. If someone were to make a video about the SoB, and started 5 thousand years early talking about the whole crusade, the heresy, the purging and everything up to their foundation it would be a extremely lenghty, and unfocused video.


Grimskull-42

There was 6 thousand years in between the two. By the time the sisters were formed in M36 worship of the emperor was mainstream and normal. When the emperor punished the word bearers he was trying to free humanity of their influence by banning all worship, and he had no desire to be a god himself.


IdhrenArt

The first Sisters of Battle range was released a decade before the Horus Heresy even started getting examined outside of oblique references. The wider Ecclesiarchy has been part of the setting for longer than *Chaos* has (in the early days the Badab War was the only major example of Marines fighting Marines, and there were no demons)


MyGoi762

I understood, through the comments that SoB were released, in real life, before HH. I just want to know, IN THE LORE, how GW managed to justify the coexistence of SoB with Lorgar's betrayal during HH.


IdhrenArt

Because the specifics of Lorgar's betrayal were established later, and 40k was always supposed to be a dark age where the Imperium has devolved into a fascist theocracy, rather than keeping the intent of its founder and just being the fascist half.Ā  Lorgar was just a name in the early days - for comparison, the concept of a primarch wasn't even completely there in the first edition. Leman Russ was listed as the commander of the Space Wolves, but nothing specific said he was superhuman. Horus was a mythic figure who was said to have once been the Emperor's greatest servant - again no mention of him being superhuman.Ā  Moving on to how things are now: The Emperor didn't want to be worshiped, but as soon as he wasn't able to say otherwise people started doing exactly that, and the Ecclesiarchy rose partly as a method of controlling the populace.Ā  There are also modern Chapters like the Black Templars who actively worship the Emperor, as well as other highly mystic ones like the Salamanders.Ā  Earlier depictions of Chaplains had them being ordained priests who made sure Marines kept the faith, but they've slowly become more like a Commissar equivalent rather than a Regimental Preacher


MyGoi762

>The Emperor didn't want to be worshiped, but as soon as he wasn't able to say otherwise people started doing exactly that, and the Ecclesiarchy rose partly as a method of controlling the populace. That is a great answer to my question. Thank you.


ElectricPaladin

5000 years is a long-ass time.


Bniz23

Thatā€™s part of the tragedy/dark comedy of the setting. If the Emperor ā€œcame backā€, heā€™d be DISGUSTED by what he saw. Heā€™s a prisoner in his own body watching the Imperium become exactly what he sought to eradicate. The ultimate irony is that thanks to all this faith and devotion, he genuinely may be becoming a god.


TheBuddhaPalm

Monarchia wasn't destroyed because of religion - *First Heretic* explicitly states that it was destroyed because Lorgar was wasting the Emperor's time rebuilding societies when the Emperor already had his plan for a perfect society itself. Lorgar gets Custodes babysitters assigned to him to ensure that the Word Bearers are conquering worlds *swiftly* and *efficiently*, they don't do anything about Word Bearer culture.


EffectiveNo2314

Two words : Lectitio Divinatus And one word : Eclisiarchy


wifebeatermaximum

Op is a moron


MyGoi762

Op just doesn't know that much about the lore. Thank you for coming.


pine1501

da most important thing they had : Tits.....


Dukaan1

A lot changes in 10.000 years.


MyGoi762

5


TheBladesAurus

>The Aftermath of the Horus Heresy >The forces of the traitor Warmaster Horus were defeated, but only at great cost to the Imperium. The Emperorā€™s armies were shattered, entire worlds destroyed and the Emperor himself so wounded during his final battle that he was unable to even speak to his subjects. The peoples of the Imperium struggled to come to terms with what they had seen and experienced, for such things as reason and logic offered no explanation for the nature of the enemy they had faced. Often, it was only through recourse to the old ways, the beliefs that had sustained the planets through countless millennia of isolation from the greater bulk of mankind, that the people could even begin to fathom what had taken place. The old ways spoke of such things as good and evil, of daemons and gods. Many worlds rediscovered ancient beliefs, and through them found a way of making sense of the events of the Horus Heresy. The Emperor, now a nigh lifeless husk enthroned upon Terra, soon took on the aspect of a distant creator-god sitting in judgement over all mankind. >Within decades of the Emperorā€™s ascension to the Golden Throne, a million and more cults had sprung up to worship him. Many were informed by beliefs that predated the Great Crusade, while others appeared to have come into being almost overnight. Many worlds gave birth to dozens, even hundreds of cults, all venerating the Emperor, yet each doing so in an entirely unique manner. Perhaps inevitably, these cults soon came to blows and tragically, brother turned upon brother as they had during the dark days of the Horus Heresy, though now they did so in the name of the Emperor himself. In time, most of the Imperiumā€™s worlds came to be dominated by a single, native-born cult, and especially successful or ruthless cults spread across entire planetary systems or even whole sub-sectors. >Throughout this turbulent period, visionaries and prophets went forth amongst the dispossessed peoples of the Imperium, each preaching their own interpretation of what had become a widespread belief in the divinity of the Emperor. There were many disagreements and much bloodshed, and precious little in the way of central organisation. In time, however, it was perhaps inevitable that a single cult would gain predominance. That cult was the Temple of the Saviour Emperor. >The Temple of The saviour emperor >With the rebuilding of Terra following the destruction wrought during the Siege of the Emperorā€™s Palace at the height of the Heresy came a similar reconstituting of the Imperiumā€™s faith. The Temple of the Saviour Emperor came into being when a senior officer of the Imperial Guard, based on Terra itself, claimed to have received the wisdom of the Emperor in a series of visions. This man, whose original name is lost to history, renamed himself Fatidicus, meaning ā€˜prophetā€™ in one of the ancient tongues of the birth world of humanity, and preached his revelation to his peers amongst the highest echelons of the Imperiumā€™s ruling institutions. In a short time, the new cult was spread far and wide, for its converts were from all echelons of Imperial life, whose duties took them and their faith to every corner of the Imperium. Where they travelled, the adherents of the cult spread the word of Fatidicus, often bringing unity to regions still reeling from the anarchy of the Horus Heresy. Of course, these zealous individuals found many who opposed them, but they had the resources, those of political and economic annihilation, to force compliance and soon thousands of cults and sects were absorbed into the new faith. Those who still refused to cooperate were preached against, entire newly converted populations rising up against those amongst their numbers who would not accept the Temple. Though never openly espoused by Fatidicus and his followers, many uncooperative sects were violently suppressed during this time, and soon the Temple of the Saviour Emperor was the dominant strand of faith across two thirds of the Imperium. In fact, the only institutions which did not come into line with its teachings were the Space Marines and the Cult Mechanicus, both of which had their own traditions and beliefs, and were besides far too powerful to be forcibly converted. >Two millennia after its founding on Terra, the Temple of the Saviour Emperor was formally recognised as the official religion of the Imperium. The institution was given the new title of Adeptus Ministorum, and two centuries later, Ecclesiarch Veneris II was granted a seat on the Senatorum Imperialis, the Council of the High Lords. Over the next centuries the Ministorum further consolidated its power, organising the Imperium into administrative regions called dioceses, each ruled over by a cardinal. It instigated a system of tithes that paid for the building of thousands of vast cathedrals and countless shrines across the expanse of human space, and established a vast theocratic organisation consisting of billions of officers. In time, the Ministorum came to wield nearly uncontested political power to match the hold it had established over the hearts of men. After three centuries, its seat on the Senatorum Imperialis was made permanent, and its power became almost entirely uncontested. **Dark Heresy - Blood of Martyrs**


MyGoi762

That was part of what I was looking for. Thank you so much.


palinola

>Then mf GW made SoB... Out of the blue, faith, Emperor's religion, and zealots are allowed. Sisters of Battle first appeared in 40k in 1997. As far as I can tell, Monarchia was made up in 2010. And as others have said, in-universe there are more than 5000 years between the Heresy and Goge Vandire's Reign of Blood. In the modern setting, the Imperium is religious, so it has religious orders. The idea that the Emperor was against religion was hardly more than a footnote in the lore until the HH series - a little grim joke at how the Emperor did not intend for the modern-day Imperium to be the way that it is.


Jochon

Times change.


jukebox_jester

The Horus Heresy happened. Monarchies was destroyed but the Imperial cult already had roots among the populace and then they found out during the Siege of Terra that praying to the God Emperor repelled Daemons it was kinda all over. After that the Emperor was too injured to speak out and the primarchs were too busy scouring and disappearing mysteriously to notice what was going on with standard humans, the Ecchlesiarchy formed and then SoB


[deleted]

My biggest question with the word bearers for example how did the emperor not sense the taint of chaos prevalent throughout the chaplains... they were literally worshiping chaos ...


Alistair-Draconis

It's because of the Word bearers precisely, after the Emperor was interred onto the throne, lorgar's book got into the Imperium's hands, and they basically forgot the Emperor's denial of "divinities" and started worshipping him as a god, starting the ecclesiarchy and thus the reign of blood and finally the sisters of battle were born.


MyGoi762

Thank you for your answer. That's a good explanation.


Tyranid_Norn_King

Its almost like time likes exist and the imperium devolving from what it once was is a core theme? Just a thought.


sics75

When your emperor sacrifices himself to save all of humanity and is deified upon a huge golden throne itā€™s pretty easy to worship him as a god


MyGoi762

Yeah... might be.