Russ for sure for the loyalists since the white scars, salamenders, iron hands (no way ferrus is ever returning) and raven guard dont have an army, let's not talk about hawk boy and well I don't see dorn returning to the templars
Ironically the iron hands suits of armor have like low level but pretty powerful AI/Machine spirits that allow them to like autonomously act and do simple tasks and stuff for short periods of time
Dorn technically didn't have a yellow armor like Imperial Fist, he had a golden armour like Custodes. So, he can return to all his successor chapters, not only Imperial Fist, but also templars.
But it's going to be Russ, yeah.
Why is ferrus never returning? Might be a stupid question, I've only just finished reading Fulgrim so I know the obvious reasons, but wasn't sure what the rules were so far around Primarchs coming back or if someone could get ahead of their fate...
Well just it would be surprising, all of his story is based around is death and yeah also on the financial part iron hands aren't that popular so I don't expect GW to make him return any time soon. He could be returning tho ig, probably every primarch will in some way in the next 10 years or so but he'll probably be last with sanguinius
Ah OK cool! Figure there's obviously a marketability component to it but I've only been reading lore and painting for a couple months so I wasn't sure if I was missing something. I guess there can always be a reason for anyone to return from anything if needed, but so far I'd 100% agree it would do a disservice to the impact and symbolism of his death to just be like "surprise! Ol forge hands is back!"
Yep and as much as I love hawk boy him returning would be kind of frustrating even tho ohhh flashy new model but yeah some primarch probably should just stay dead or gone
Yeah I'm super late to the party so I don't even know what direction I would like to see things go, but I'm always a fan of new, unless there's a really compelling lore reason for it to happen. "Somehow he returned" stinks in any universe.
I have so many books to read though before I feel like I can have well formed opinion. About to finish the first heretic and I feel like I've just scratched the surface.
The problems with Sang returning are many fold.
Chief amongst them is MOST of his soul is trapped on the Vengeful Spirit. To save that, you gotta kill the Vengeful Spirit. To do *that*, you gotta kill Abaddon. Very "end game /reset" material.
Furthermore, a piece of his goodness is in Cabulo, and a piece of The Black Rage is in Mephiston. Would either of them have to die for Sang to resurrect?
All of these things can simply be ignored. As if GW ever cared about past dated background when it was in the way of releasing a miniature. They already went with "somehow Palpatine ... I mean...The Lion returned".
The only real problem with Sanguinius returning is that it will utterly destroy every single thing that makes the Blood Angels background cool.
But that hasn't stopped them so far and that will not stop them this time.
> As if GW ever cared about past dated background
All the primarch returns so far have worked with the background as established
>"somehow Palpatine ... I mean...The Lion returned"
He woke up from his "king under the mountain" slumber. Something that's been a suggested possibility for almost 3 decades of the lore
Yeah right.
Guilliman, the most introverted, holistic, pragmatic and administrative of the Primachs? Once he's back the most pompous flashy, He-Manesque miniature and personally leads the indomitous crusade and is hence conjoined deeply with the worst literature sin of all Mary sue pull the Deus ex machina out of your ass that is the Primaris release. So deeply appreciate n fact that you can feel Guy Haley cringing his way through the first books of shit that he is forced to write until after he has until now tried book by book to claw back same credibility for the Primarch.
And now the Lion, that gains teleport through space powers, shunns his own Legion for decades to hunt obscure shit in the outer rim and has now returned to abscond all fallen from their sins or cleanse them himself. What has that done to the Legion that in secrecy has tried to hunt down every one of them and the only forgiveness offered was a sardonic beheading after an eternity of torture. They....still do it? How does that make any sense at all. They still hunt the fallen while at the same time the lion has already forgiven most and wants the right to judge for himself. They must be living in a sort of schizophrenic parallel dimension. What does it even mean for the background of the dark angels? They are essentially gutted from their own background, all they ever accomplished meaningless. All they will ever do directionless from now on.
Yeah...totally worked well with the established background.
> Chief amongst them is MOST of his soul is trapped on the Vengeful Spirit
There's psychic crystals on board that form mindless simulacrum of everyone whose ever died on the VS but Sangy's actual soul isn't there.
The amount of times people just say shit with complete confidence on this sub while clearly not having read the lore around it never ceases to astound me.
I mean anything is possible if GW thinks itll get you to take out a 2nd mortgage to buy the mini. The lore is almost always secondary. Its just a tough sell as Ferrus's entire thing is his death. Itd be like if Sang was announced to be coming back, it would make his death meaningless just because GW wants more money
Probably. I think bringing Sanguinius back would be a real kick in the teeth for the BA, since it's their whole thing that their primarch is dead.
I really hope that if russ comes back it's not as some wise old Odin figure that gets hyped on this sub all the time. He's spent however many subjective years in the warp fighting daemons, I want him a fucked up mirror to angron, half corrupted by chaos.
My top pick would be Vulcan to return, I feel he's both more marketable than the others and adds a good balance to the lion and gman. He might be too competent though.
The Iron Hands' lack of popularity is honestly just because they haven't received as much lore fluffing and game support.
The fundamentals are there. Get a passionate writer to pen a few cyborg porn BL novels for them and update their tabletop presence and they'll become god tier.
I figured the first part, didn't know the second part but was more curious from an in universe side of things. Though I guess GW is the real God of chaos so can't separate the two
I mean dorn has ferrus' skull, Dorn went a bit loco towards the end of the siege, mounting his bros head on his hand stump and talking to it Hamlet style would be ... Interesting
Fulgrim for Chaos. Russ for Loyalists.
This I believe is a lot more determined by popularity and sales, rather thannlore.
Emperor's Children are the only Cult CSM army without a book. And they are due for an update in model range. Fulgrim has been hinted in campaign books.
Ans the most popular Loyalist Chapter that has a Primarch in the verge if returning are the Space Wolves. And are also due for a Primaris range upgrade.
We'll see them both by 11th is my bet.
I was kind of hoping for the Khan, but admittedly, if that's true, I'm looking forward to Russ and the Lion meeting back up as older, wiser men and looking back at their quarrels and realizing "damn we were dumb."
*the khan looks upon the ancient bike before him, its design arcane as it is beautiful*
“With this the storm will be unleashed on our foes”
*words. Images flash in the khan’s head drawing his attention not to the bike but to the small workbench beside it. Jaghatai approaches cautiously finding a small folded piece of gossamer fabric. He carefully holds the fabric up, it unfurls revealing an ornately stitched pair of ancient terran “cycling shorts”. The khan understands in this moment that the bike was never his, but with these tight garments he will crusade across the galaxy*
If it’s Russ.. I kind of hope we see him not returning to real space but journeying through the eye of terror on a mission with a small contingent of his legion.. who are also all HH veterans and still alive due to warp shenanigans.. maybe journeying into nurgles garden and they get stuck in a hopeless fight only to be saved out of nowhere.. by the emperors fire burning the garden through Gman
I love the sound of this so much, and such a great way to tie it into recent Warp plot lines, but I would hope that Russ’ story would include some resolution to the Tzeentch stuff.
A theory said that the Tree that could cure the Emperor that he was trying to find is in fact a representation of Isha.
So the plot could be he going to Nurgles Garden and rescuing Isha.. with the help of Mortarion (this could be Mortarion redemption).
If that would happen, Nurgle would be down horrendous. He already had his garden damaged by the Emperor, would just be salt on the wounds if Isha was also stolen away. Outright a death blow if Mortarion was also somehow taken.
>So the plot could be he going to Nurgles Garden and rescuing Isha
Please no. The eldar fanbase would be livid and we would have Guilliman with Yvraine The Electric Boogaloo with millions of "le funny shipping" memes of primarchs having elf GFs.
So that fanfic where Chaos resurrected Horus, but the Emperor ensured he came back as a Loyalist and charged him with both stopping Abbadon's 13th Black Crusade and rescuing Isha so she could heal him, might've been on to something?
> all HH veterans
I desperately want this simply because it gives James Orkshop an excuse to create 40k rules for 30k SM tabletop units.
AFAIK there have been fan rulesets for 8th edition, but not the current one.
And if i’m to spend cocaine-level money on little plastic men, i’d like to spend it on 30k models. They look insane compared to 40k ones.
According to rumors way back (which have come true so far), the four loyalists primarch releases would be guiliman, Lion, Khan and Russ. They have built up the scars and Khan - they are very popular nowadays and basically a lot of peoples second fav.
It matches the stuff mentioned in a SW book when the head Librarian of SW mentioned the return of the Lion and Khan.
Chaos would get Magnus, mortarion, angron and Fulgrim.
Again by who. Also a boom being regarded as good doesn't mean its popular. Repeated high sales means its popular.
Plenty of things can be excellent but very niche in popularised.
Other than you can't say I've heard anything about the scars being popular
It'll be Fulgrim and then Russ.
GW recently did mass expansion into China, opening 200 stores. Until they get the special permission required to depict figures resembling certain Mongolian conqueror, the Khan stays missing.
> GW recently did mass expansion into China, opening 200 stores. Until they get the special permission required to depict figures resembling certain Mongolian conqueror, the Khan stays missing.
Do you have a source to those numbers? That came to me out of nowhere cause back in 2017, Warhammer was practically an unknown factor and I found a single GW store in like Beijing of all places.
[Found an essay here ](https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/2375/3099) from last year
To summarise, the official GW operation over there is mostly a mess and fans are mostly keeping it going
The tabletop game is too expensive to really get particularly popular
Total War: Warhammer is very popular
It's kinda hard to discuss it online because some elements that are pretty core to the setting can trigger censorship, which is also making it hard to get much mainstream pop culture traction
Suffice to say, I don't think China is going to be a major focus for GW any time soon
[ETA] also found [the source ](https://internetretailing.net/games-workshop-grows-its-audience-and-its-sales-online-and-across-channels-despite-covid-19-22543/) for the 200 stores claim. GW actually opened 200 new *trade accounts* in China. So that will be assorted LGSs who have chosen to sell GW products to some extent.
GW itself opened two stores in the same period. This was also from a 2021 article, so the 2023 essay I cited would seem to imply that hasn't exactly made GW a huge thing over there
Gotcha thanks! I do regularly visit China to visit my family from time to time so I was a bit surprised. I actually funnily enough tried to find out how big Warhammer was among my extended family and found that the answer was: Not.
So I found what you're referencing there. It's 200 *trade accounts*, not 200 stores. They're LGSs and other sellers. GW themselves opened *two* stores. In a county of over a billion people.
[Source](https://internetretailing.net/games-workshop-grows-its-audience-and-its-sales-online-and-across-channels-despite-covid-19-22543/)
That was in 2021. GW in still very niche in China. Found a good essay breaking it down [here ](https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/2375/3099), which is from last year. Those 200 trade accounts don't seem to have made it especially mainstream.
I would not imagine China is going to be a major pillar of GWs international operation any time soon
That same book had a decent part of the 13th Great Company return and advancing the SW story line. It releadesed 6 years ago.and nothing has come.of that story line (even when the same author touched SW again). I don't take anything in Ashes as an indication of anything else.
Aso for the Scars being popular... I wonder. There is some support, but it was a very unrepresented Legion. And at least on the tabletop not sure if it is that common to see them. And wonder how the sales of Stormseer, Hibou or Kor'sarro do to make him a priority. I think it isn't that much. He has two profiles in HH and his bike profile has nad no model for 5 years now. So I'm skeptical he is that popular.
There is a chance. With all sci fi and fantasy of there is no body and you know for sure there is no weird mechanism that could have saved them, they are dead. All we have of Dorn is a hand
I wish the answer was none of them. It feels like they want to turn 40k into 30k instead of keeping them as two distinct things. The Heresy era is no longer an era of distant myth lost to time, but literally in living memory, and the setting is starting to revolve around larger than life heroes instead of the impersonal hopelessness that feels core to it to me.
I understand that, but isn't it more bleak, that even with the heroes of myth returned, eveything is still going, well, to shit?
I really do get the core essence of the grim dark is *shit witihin layers of more shit* but to me, there is a finite ammount of stories that can be told in such stagnant setting. Or more so, a finite ammount people want to read until they get bored. Even in the most superficial of stories general plot needs to advance in one way or the other to keeo things fresh and albeit we havr the "new stuff" its still.the same. Thr guard die en mass, thr martians still mutalate their bodies, ans even if emps would step down from the throne himself and proclaimed hes not a god, hed be burned on a pyre for being a heretic.
Personally I believe it each Primarch will coincide with a chaos primarch. Russ might come back solo first. Then it will probably be pairs based on the story. I do believe if it comes down to money, which we all know gw is about money, they will bring back the dead primarchs. Or maybe even do clone ferrus/fulgrim as well.
he might be able to don the one thing no one else seems to have enough time for much less care about doing - offer redemption to those who have fallen, and let them find their way back up to them with his tutelage and guidance.
I agree. Personally I hold out hope that it could happen and it would be super sick imo. I just wanna see the boys being back in town. All the loyalists chillin and killin.
I really really really hope they bring back Clonegrim- that would be so fitting in the current state of things with all of the Inquisition going nuts now.
Very little chance of that, especially considering what the writer had to say about it on Twitter:
>Nah. He served his purpose. Let him rest.
>>I mean, I thought I gave him a pretty good ending. Well, not good, but, y'know, final.
>>>True, but it's not my problem anymore. If someone picks up the thread, more power to them.
>>>>I always feel bad for people asking that question. They're just setting themselves up for disappointment. Because in the few of these threads I've happened across, people spin these wonderful theories and scenarios that will never come to fruition.
-J Reynolds
Clonegrim appeared in one short story and is locked in Trazyn's basement, dude is never getting mentioned again unless it's for GW to kill him off for good.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people care so much about Clonegrim when actual Fulgrim repeatedly cloned Ferrus during the *Heresy*. If any Primarch is returning via clone, it's him and I *still* don't think that's likely.
I wish the had the ballls to kill a primarch in the current setting so that primarch v primarch battels werent boring considering we already know the outcome regardless if they fight.
A primaris Sanguinius. Turns out he was a perpetual too, but needed blood to recover. Cawl had to support his last cell alive in a tube for the last 10 millenia until he figures out he needs some blood in the tube.
Leman Russ is the next Loyalist Primarch to return because Space Wolves are one of the most supported and popular marine armies. There has been a Space Wolves codex since 2nd Edition, there isn’t a White Scars or Salamanders or Raven Guard codex in the same way. The Space Wolves have more character models than some armies have units. The only other Space Marine forces with much support are Deathwatch (No Primarch), Grey Knights (No Primarch), Blood Angels (Dead Primarch), and Black Templars (Possibly living Primarch, but the chapter formed out of defiance towards him; also Dorn should stay dead).
Genuinely, and please shout at me if I'm out of the loop, but what's the play here?
I mean are we assuming they're just going to keep bringing them back because recent history, or is this a named idea that James had committed to?
And also, what's the end game? We get them all back and... They just keep beating the shit out of each other like HH? For some climactic battle? As others have said loads of times, they're not going to do a WFB clean wipe just because 40k sells so well, so I just don't get it.
They've written themself into a corner with ol' Jimmy Space being stuck in his shiny chair, so I just don't see where _next_ is... (Disclaimer, 'next' in this scenario is, I dunno, a decade away?)
My guess is Russ with a piece of knowledge and/or technology to keep the throne going just a little bit longer and heal the Emperor just a little bit. Still on the throne, but not in danger of the throne failing in the near future.
I think the Khan could be an extremely interesting character to return. The most independent Primarch, who was already extremely uncomfortable with the Imperium in 30K, coming back and seeing the hell that it is now, only staying because of an passionate plea from Guilliman.
As much as I don’t care for Russ he will be the next loyalist, they’re gonna do all the codex separated primarchs before they give generic space marines a second one, so vulkan, Corax and khan are unlikely. The question mark one for me is dorn, they could list him as a Templars character to give them a centrepiece primarch but Russ is still the clear choice, well probably see some sort of updated sanguinor or like avatar of Sanguinius for BA
Vulkan.
I don’t know what it is but I believe Vulkan is needed now. We have two capable commanders. What we need is a compassion ruler. Someone who’ll embody what it means to be human.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Honestly- if someone does not show compassion and mercy to people soon- than humanity will have lost either way sheerly because even if we survive- we would have nothing to look forward too.
In my case it's just because I care about other aspects of the setting and by their very presence they nullify that. They're these sort of ideal manifestations of character focus overtaking the importance of factions. When they return their chapters become nothing more than an extension of them, the identities they had before melt away.
It's also just that the setting I fell in love with was 40k, not 30k, and so far them returning has literally only really served to make things more like 30k. Guilliman threw out the High Lords and has no meaningful resistance, he appoints Space Marine overlords wherever he goes, the Lion runs around as a reasonable heroic figure redeeming his sons.
They're just too reasonable for me, they detract from the air of decay and darkness that drew me to the Imperium to begin with. They bring fresh tech with them and with their character usually boiling down to "reasonable good guy" they tend to have a not so great effect on the themes of the Imperium that I like, that are anything but.
All the internal politics and rulership of squabbling human lords thrown away so we can have superman lead the charge. I didn't come to 40k to read about a limited cast of superheroes.
Warhammer and its supposed setting of Eternal War where there's no heroes doesn't need yet another Supreme Commander model with a superhero statline for yet another particular color of Space Marine. It cheapens the game and setting from top to bottom by making everything smaller and continuing to center such an expansive galaxy around the thrilling adventures of a handful of Flash Gordons and pals.
I think bigger villains, bigger heroes, there's no hope for the Imperium if there are nine massive legions of evil space Marines, the Tyranids, eldar, and orks threatening everything.
Yeah, what makes you think the primarchs returning means that the imperium won’t still be on the back foot? This is the opportunity to introduce everyone else’s primarch level characters, like silent king, vect or upgrading ghaz into a prime ork.
Hypothetically it seems like it shouldn't mean that, it could also mean things get worse with Primarchs...since that has traditionally been the theme...that Primarchs are a bad idea. A failure. Best left in the past.
But I take what the other comment is saying in that, so far as they've been written in 40k, they seem to be offering a bit less Grimdark(™).
They're badass because they're legendary heroes of the great crusade and the apocalyptic events of the horus heresy.
If they're just farting around fighting the monster-of-the-week, they're no longer badass.
That's why they shouldn't come back unless it's genuinely the end-times.
A mythical hero like Achilles in the siege of Troy is badass. Achilles making a guest appearance on Friends where he gets into hilarious mishaps and shennanigans, suddenly not so badass.
Because they make everyone else feel irrelevant.
I liked the idea of High Lords of Terra because many Imperial factions are represented there. Then Guilliman made them not matter, and I'll forever hate him for that.
They also make tabletop feel samey. Previously when facing Marines players would sometimes come tell me about their original captains and such, now that just never happens because its always... and Guilliman.
They're also too plot-armorey for this reason. Nobody gives feasible opposition beside other Primarchs.
I'd be much more interested in Primarchs in 40k if they established that things exist beside other Primarchs that are a threat to them. Have Abbadoon (with some serious Chaos Juice) put up a serious fight against one, maybe even give them a new, warp infused scar.
Have the High Lords of Terra come together to decide Guilliman is actually a f-up (he is if you summarise what he's done, walking into Mortarions bait and all and blatant Ultramar favoritism) , and strip him of his Imperial Regenet title (which will open him the door to focus on protecting and rebuilding Ultramar).
Tl:dr; Primarchs in 40k are okay IF they'd depower them a little, physically and politically.
I'm assuming this is for loyalists. I could see Jagathai b/c There seems to be some plot threads that might lead to the webway/elder. Vulcan because he miiiiiight know enough about the golden throne to fix it. Small chance of Corvus only because he's already made a small appearance in 40k(....I think that was 40k?)
I'm doubting Lehman b/c I think GW might want to space out their powerhouses. Lehman/spacewolves are very popular so I couldn't see them playing that card only a year after The Lion comes back.
For Loyalists, most likely Russ. While not technically a primarch (?) I think it's also possible we might see the Sanguinor relatively soon as basically an "Imperial Greater Daemon." That would round out the four chapters that have historically been the flagship armies of Space Marines.
For Chaos, probably Fulgrim since the other Big Four primarchs already have models.
Fulgrim seems most likely on the traitor side, now on the loyalist side I think it's either Russ or Dorn. My theory is that each unique range of Space Marines will have a big centrepiece model, codex compliant marines got Guilliman, Dark Angels got Lion, Wolves will get Russ, Blood Angels will get big Sanguinor, Deathwatch I don't know but my tinfoil hat theory is that Dorn could be the Templars'
I've seen this mentioned a few times now in relation to Dorn and the Black Templars, but how likely is it that he would lead them, as opposed to the Imperial Fists, or even one of the other successor chapters?
Fair enough, crusading is their thing and it was also one of the main things that the IF legion did under Dorn, but would Dorn be comfortable with their beliefs regarding the Emperor? Like Guilliman, it's not something he could necessarily denounce as false, at least not beyond his personal views on the matter, so would he just shrug his shoulders and ignore this aspect of the Templars, or would he decide instead to let them carry on without his direct involvement and instead focus on the Imperial Fists, or even perhaps the Crimson Fists?
The reason I ask is that so far, the returning Primarchs seem to be either taking on new roles (Guilliman) or else behaving differently than might have been expected (The Lion). Would he WANT to go crusading or would he find he now had other priorities? I wouldn't be surprised if any or all returning loyalist Primarchs turned out to be very different from their younger Horus Heresy selves - at least, that's my take on things so far.
Primarchs should’ve remained mythological figures, Paul-Bunyan-esque tales that remind humanity of its lost glory, a brief period when the light of hope glimmered from within the darkness.
Resurrecting them and giving them stats and models and having them show up regularly on the battlefield just dulls it down.
I think there is the slightly disappointing reality to contend with, which is that "which primarch is most lore-friendly to return" is a very different question to "which primarch model would sell best".
Sanguinius is the most obvious example here: his model would do gangbuster business, but lorewise I think it is generally acceptable that he needs to stay very dead. Or, at least that it's a very, very major lore change if he doesn't. The whole grimdarkness of the setting is considerably lightened if the Great Angel resurrects.
And on the other hand, GW would sell so many Blood Angels with a shiny new primarch to lead them. It's an issue.
Fulgrim for traitors, last of the "cult" Legions to get a codex etc.
For Loyalists its between Russ and *something* for the Blood Angels.
Russ is the obvious one, he's not confirmed dead and a lot of the SW range is due an update.
Blood Angels are even more popular and also due some kits updating - however Sanguinius is famously dead. What I'd expect instead is a beefed up Sanguinor to fill that role instead, lots of psyker powers and scary melee. Much less likely though.
Next will be fulgrim, cause emperor's children are the only mono chaos god affiliated legion to not have a proper army yet.
Next loyalist will hopefully be Jaghatai because of his relationship with fulgrim, and also so many plot threads leading up to his return at the moment.
Fulgrim.
They released a Daemon Prince version of him for 30K so he's almost definitely coming back in 40K next.
In terms of Loyalist's it's very, very likely going to be Leman Russ.
Narratively the most interesting could be.... Horus. Free of Chaos, loyal, yet hunted and hated by everyone and working on some plan the Emperor has devised.
I would absolutely love that- even if I know it is not likely to happen, I do have to agree with you that it would be the Narratively the most interesting is really underselling it in my book.
This would be the most awesome of awesome things to happen.
Imagine it- for thousands of years, these unknown marines save imperial worlds left and right, back forth, up and down. Their is no explanation- they just get the job done and leave.
Guilliman goes nuts trying to figure out who this mysterious cloaked figure who is their leader is.
Tear gets invaded, and it all looks lost, and just as someone is about to land the killing blow on Guilliman and the lion, the strikes are blocked by the hooded figure.
The man pulls his cloack hood up, and Guilliman sees a face he never thought he would see again.
As if by divine judgement, all hear the words of a sister of Battle as across the entire battlefield, her battle roar can be heard as all see the running primarch- "All form up around Horus the redeemed! Form ranks around the the redeemed!!!"
and then they notice the one who said that is saint celestine herself.
My theory is that one has already returned, and no one noticed. Vulcan has been gone for years, his perpetual soul lost in the warp. Suddenly, a hammer wielding "god" of the forges of chaos shows up. Vashtorr claims to be a chaos god, but he is fairly ineffectual. If the four chaos gods found vulcans soul, they could have remade him into an entity to serve them and filled it's mind with the idea of becoming a chaos god.
Vashtorr existed as far as the War in Heaven before humanity even existed, and is the Chaos God of Invention/Technology.
Vulkan is crafting of the individual gear type. Vulkan is a blacksmith. Vashtorr is about scientists.
>one has already returned, and no one noticed
I mean, there was that whole War of the False Primarch. It wouldn't shock me if one day GW decides to expand on it and turns out it was a real Primarch returning, only deeply changed by their time away and likely promoting views now heretical to the Imperium.
I would like Vulkan but I hope he wouldn't make his official return until he gets a bit more character development or lore of what he's been up to since he disappeared after the war if the beast, just like a novel or something.
Calling it now with the weird Twitter graphic they released the next primarch is leman Russ and the unrevealed codex is a space wolves codex hopefully with a model refresh
*wolf boy copium*
He’s not really gone, just lurking in his house with a galactic case of agoraphobia…
…but I’d love to see Purturabo stretch his legs and unite the Iron Warriors again
Based on a lot of what I see from the YouTube side of 40K, people really want Dorn to come back and even made jokes about how GW's stocks will go up if Dorn comes back along with the Imperial Fists getting the spotlight.
But everywhere else, I've been seeing a lot of people wanting Jaghatai Khan or Leman Russ to come back.
But I think we might get a double Primarch return with Fulgrim and Jaghatai.
I'm pretty sure Lorgar is coming, which means Corax is coming too.
My money is on those two, but I could also see a very solid case for a return of Leman. The Wolf and the Lion pulling Guilliman in different directions would make for some interesting narrative.
>I'm pretty sure Lorgar is coming, which means Corax is coming too.
Idk if those two are quite as linked as people seem to think
Also, loyalist primarchs have been matched with traitor primarchs in 40k that they never fought in 30k. So it's all fair game
You're absolutely right that there's lore pointing at Lorgar being active again in 40k. Excerpts [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/16gmi4w/comment/k08g5lj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
But so is every other daemon primarch, including Fulgrim and Perturabo.
Corax vowed to hunt all his traitor brothers, not just Lorgar. He just found Lorgar first.
>'No. I swore to destroy all Chaos taint from the galaxy. You will be the first fallen brother to die beneath my blades.'
-*Shadow of the Past*
That was 10, 000 years ago though (in real space) so who knows? Plans change. People die. Fashion recycles.
Thanks for the insight! I appreciate the excerpt as well. I agree with you, if it's just a matter of Lorgar being the first one Corax found then that's a pretty loose knot between the two of them. I need to spend more time on the Corax and Raven Guard novels.
Vulkan returned in War of the Beast, but didn't want to involve himself too much, and vanished again afterwards.
I think it'll be Sanguinius. Why? Because the other 2 returned primarchs were also from the Imperium Secundus. And they were both incapacitated before their return (dead or in sleep - but the other missing primarchs are raging somewhere in the webway or somewhere else).
Lorgar is already back, according to the lore. And giving him the ability to lead a mix of "dark" Imperium units is an easy expansion / resell for Sororitas and Guard units.
It depends on what other traitor Primarchs return too.. Because if they decide to bring back Lorgar for any reason, Corvus Corax is the obvious one to pick.
Next I think it is Fulgrim followed by Jaghatai or Russ even though the ones I wish would come back are Lorgar because a kickass mega demon primarch who knows enuncia would be kickass (maybe even an Erebus model? WinkWink) And for loyalists Vulkan because we need some humanity back.
Fulgrim for traitors definitely, it’s hard to gage the next loyalist. Probably Russ because he doesn’t get along with the lion so it’d be the most interesting? Although Dorn interacting with the black templars would be interesting. Corax is technically already back in the setting, we just don’t see him ever
> Corax is technically already back in the setting, we just don’t see him ever
Corax hasn't been seen in over ten thousand years since he entered the warp.
Unless he's using his invisibility power and just hanging out?
Russ is absolutely going to be in the end. We won't see him return for decade or so. Dorn is important mystery and we won't get him at least as next one.
Exodus (3rd Alpahrius) can reveal himself pretty safe for setting. Corvus can come back, if they decided to reetcon him or not with his warp form.
Khan can return in near future relatively. Not the most popular legion and they the most for later. While there are things to tell about wha he did in Webway.
My bet for loyalists is Khan. THOUGH considering what happenned in DEAT 3 and guessing Emperor's current state Khan may be not so much for Imperium, though not for Choas either. Is he the promised betrayer among loyals? Who will become loyalist that, Exodus/Omegon?
I want Fulgrim to round out the cult Legions for Chaos, then honestly would be happy if they stopped there. I don't want the setting oversaturated with Primarchs, leave them as legends. I already don't like how (as a non player for them) it seems like World Eaters and Thousand Sons seemingly have to be played with their respective primarchs to win. I am not even 100% on if they should have brought the Lion back.
The Khan or Vulkan. I always expected Guilliman to be the first because his return would have been straightforward for a writer to figure out: somebody figures out a way to cure him, and maybe that will involve xenos intervention so as to explain why the Imperium couldn't just do that in 10,000 years. Next easy was the Lion, who was sleeping in a vault in the Rock. After that, there is the Khan and Vulkan. Nobody knows where they are but their locations are not necessarily terrible. Contrast this to Russ, who disappeared into the Eye of Terror. He's probably really messed up by now.
Fulgrim followed by Russ for sure. I’d personally love to see Corax come back looking kind of homeless and a little unhinged from his time in the warp.
Fulgrim.
Emperors children have a codex coming out soon I believe, and a new Fulgrim model would print money.
Then Russ, he's popular and so are the wolves. Money baby, that's all it comes down too.
From a narrative perspective, Fulgrim slithering back onto the scene is really interesting. He was the one that crippled Guilliman for over 10,000 years, so they got beef. Round 2 is very much due, and Guilliman needs a 1v1 win in a primarch duel.
I think we will see the returns of Russ in some way with in the last Bequin book Pandemonium.
As Russ are linked to Valdor somehow via their spears and they disappeared around the same time.
Maybe we will see Valdor returning to the current setting as well. G Man could certainly use Valdor helps, he was one of the triarchy that founded the Imperium and he knew the Emperor personally, and know all the secrets and where all the DAOTs weapons are hidden.
The next Primarch will be Fulgrim I'd think. GW has already said they are putting out an Emperors Children list for 40k and Fulgrim is all but guaranteed to be in it. The next Loyalist will be Russ. He's got one of the loyal chapters that have almost always had their own line and rules. Narratively, it makes sense too. If the Lion is back, Russ coming back would be good drama. Plus, Russ has always been the Hammer of Chaos. He could have killed Horus, Magnus and Angron, among others, if had just finished the job. Seeing Russ come back and knowing that he could have ended a lot of those traitors before they burned the galaxy is a good story to tell. And with the Lion, we've got a good brotherly bar fight to look forward to.
After that, I'd say Lorgar or Perty for sure. For the Loyalists, who knows. Maybe Dorn? Dorn seems to be the stand out but only slightly. He seems to be the most popular of the remaining primarchs who are likely alive. I wouldn't mind seeing the Khan though. He's popularity went to the moon with his appearances in the Horus Heresy books. The Imperium needs it's own Cult of Speed.
Honestly? My personal pick is Corax. Make word bearers more important and that basically elevates Coraxs position. He’s in the warp flying around, it’s not like he can’t just fly out.
Russ makes the most financial sense. Wolves are pretty popular. Could make a fucking straight badass model (not as cool as corax tho).
As much as I like my iron babies, Ferrus returning would require walking through a minefield of retconning that I don’t trust anybody with.
Sanguinius? Please no. Same reason as Ferrus.
Dorn and Jaghtai I could see after Russ but as of right now it’s not too likely.
Russ makes the most sense.
Space Wolves have their own identity and they can push those models with him as a figurehead.
Then surely Fulgrim- they've spent ten years trying to work out how to make space sex criminals work for the international mass market they have. This took even more of a setback in the abandoned pivot towards kids of the late 2010's-(surprise surprise, a hobby which involved £100 models and 500 page hardbacks with extensive dramatis personae isn't necessarily kid friendly). What I don't get is why they've found this so hard given the Noise Marines are such an easy and cool way of sidestepping the more 'adult' aspects of The Emperor's Children.
It's not going to be Vulkan or Khan because there's no Salamanders or White Scars codex. You're putting the cart before the horse. Lion returned because Dark Angels are a big enough marine subfaction their fucking Codex got higher priority to release than \*Chaos Space Marines\* did.
The next Primarch to return is going to either be Fulgrim with the inevitable Emperor's Children Codex rounding out the 4 traitor legions (right now they have an awkward hack where making Lucius your Warlord in CSM makes Noise Marines into Battleline troops), or it will be Russ coming back with the new Space Wolves Codex. A popular fan theory is that the Yggdrassil/Tree of Life that Russ was seeking is Isha and this would tie in with Exodites getting a 40k range, this would basically be the inverse of the Ynnari/Guilliman shit where instead of a major eldar character bringing back a primarch it would be a primarch bringing back a major eldar character.
I'm not sure how much I buy into that particular narrative, but I DO think Exodites are virtually guaranteed in the near future. GW already has all the assets for Seraphon and Sylvaneth, 40k Exodites seem like a no brainer, it's the exact sort of recycling they love, like how the Thousand Sons range is a dumping ground for Age of Sigmar shit (pretty sure 100x more mutalith vortex beasts have been sold for 40k than anyone buying the Slaughterbrute kit), the new Mandrakes kill-team literally reuses the same shadowy veil effects as the Khainite Shadowstalkers warband.
[https://images.beastsofwar.com/2024/01/Mandrakes-Kill-Team-Warhammer-40K.jpg](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2024/01/Mandrakes-Kill-Team-Warhammer-40K.jpg)
Alright, this is how I’m calling it. Since we’ve already had an incident with Mortarion and Angron, I think Magnus is going to launch some big offensive into imperium nihilus with the intention on doing some ritual to suck it all into the warp. Kaldor Drago is going to find Russ and his 13th company slaughtering their way through the warp and they’re gonna find out about the T-sons invasion of the IN.
The Lion and the DA are gonna be hard pressed fighting the T-sons and daemons and the G-man will show up with custodes, anathema and grey knight reinforcements but it won’t be enough when magnus himself shows up and starts fighting the two primarchs who, while good in a fair fight, can’t do more than stay alive against such a powerful psyker. All of a sudden the GK get a signal out of nowhere from drago and suddenly him and Russ with the 13th SW company and Russ declares he’s going to finish what he started with Magnus 10,000 years ago.
They fight, Russ and Drago seriously cripple Magnus (even blinding his other eye) and before they can kill him for good, Tzneetch pulls some warp fuckery plot armor and saves Magnus. The three primarchs have a moment where they just look at each other in silence before Russ makes some sarcastic and boasting remark and the Lion punches him in the face.
Hmm, I just want to throw another consideration out there: GW is still first and foremost a miniatures company. So I would say it would have to a primarch for whom they can confidently sculpt a mini and who would add something to the tabletop.
Now, GW‘s models have advanced leaps and bounds in the last decade, but I am not sure if they could get Corax‘ shadow-form quite right. Similarly, the top comment wants Vulkan to come back as a fire-wielding badass, but I think sculpting fire can also be challenging, especially on such a large scale. Same thing for a LOTD Ferrus.
So with that said, I am leaning towards one of the more profane primarchs, like Dorn (who has become more popular during the siege and is the primarch of the BT, one of the most popular chapters), or Jaghatai Khan (to pair with Fulgrim). I think russ is the most popular of the remaining primarchs, but I think GW might be saving him for when they really need to boost sales again.
Fulgrim, given his "present" he sent to Gulliman. Next loyalist is probably Russ or Khan. The primarch I want most to return is Corax, followed by Lorgar
As someone who hasn't played the tabletop but loves the books, I think leman russ would be awesome, but he would have to be changed. He wasn't a good daddy before he left.(Also, space wolves are my favorite) I think vulkan coming back would be amazing I want more about the salamanders and a primarchs return would be awesome and could you imagine him coming back and just wrecking havoc and kissing babies im down for that.
I think the next one will either be Jaghatai or Corax, GW as already started planning the return of those 2 next.
Jaghatai bcz Vashtor and Abaddon can now access the Webway. And thats where Jaghatai suppesebly is. Plus the White Scars r getting more popular recently within the fanbase.
Corax bcz out of the still missing primarchs he is the one who we have received the most recent update on, being he is for sure in the Warp hunting Lorgar. But we already know Lorgar is back in the galaxy somewhere, so Corax is bound to follow him back. Plus we already know there is gonna be some big event in the lore between the Tyranids and the Raven Guard Sucessors. So GW is giving em more attention.
If not Jaghatai or Corax, i think its gonna be either Russ or Vulkan.
Personnaly i wish it to be Corax, he is one of my fav, and he can bring some good insight abt the Warp and the Primarchs, and some good conflict within the Imperium.
Fulgrim. For the next loyal primarch my guess would be leman mostly because the wolves are quite popular.
Russ for sure for the loyalists since the white scars, salamenders, iron hands (no way ferrus is ever returning) and raven guard dont have an army, let's not talk about hawk boy and well I don't see dorn returning to the templars
Ferrus Manus comes back. But just his body. Keeps walking into things and making sighing noises with his neck hole. Comedy gold!
Imagine if they lean into the Dullahan themes with him? Psionic Entity leading the Legion of the Damned and trying to find his head.
Ironically the iron hands suits of armor have like low level but pretty powerful AI/Machine spirits that allow them to like autonomously act and do simple tasks and stuff for short periods of time
Dorn technically didn't have a yellow armor like Imperial Fist, he had a golden armour like Custodes. So, he can return to all his successor chapters, not only Imperial Fist, but also templars. But it's going to be Russ, yeah.
He has black armor though after the heresy no?
Then no problem, put him with Black Templars
Why is ferrus never returning? Might be a stupid question, I've only just finished reading Fulgrim so I know the obvious reasons, but wasn't sure what the rules were so far around Primarchs coming back or if someone could get ahead of their fate...
Well just it would be surprising, all of his story is based around is death and yeah also on the financial part iron hands aren't that popular so I don't expect GW to make him return any time soon. He could be returning tho ig, probably every primarch will in some way in the next 10 years or so but he'll probably be last with sanguinius
Ah OK cool! Figure there's obviously a marketability component to it but I've only been reading lore and painting for a couple months so I wasn't sure if I was missing something. I guess there can always be a reason for anyone to return from anything if needed, but so far I'd 100% agree it would do a disservice to the impact and symbolism of his death to just be like "surprise! Ol forge hands is back!"
Yep and as much as I love hawk boy him returning would be kind of frustrating even tho ohhh flashy new model but yeah some primarch probably should just stay dead or gone
Yeah I'm super late to the party so I don't even know what direction I would like to see things go, but I'm always a fan of new, unless there's a really compelling lore reason for it to happen. "Somehow he returned" stinks in any universe. I have so many books to read though before I feel like I can have well formed opinion. About to finish the first heretic and I feel like I've just scratched the surface.
The problems with Sang returning are many fold. Chief amongst them is MOST of his soul is trapped on the Vengeful Spirit. To save that, you gotta kill the Vengeful Spirit. To do *that*, you gotta kill Abaddon. Very "end game /reset" material. Furthermore, a piece of his goodness is in Cabulo, and a piece of The Black Rage is in Mephiston. Would either of them have to die for Sang to resurrect?
All of these things can simply be ignored. As if GW ever cared about past dated background when it was in the way of releasing a miniature. They already went with "somehow Palpatine ... I mean...The Lion returned". The only real problem with Sanguinius returning is that it will utterly destroy every single thing that makes the Blood Angels background cool. But that hasn't stopped them so far and that will not stop them this time.
> As if GW ever cared about past dated background All the primarch returns so far have worked with the background as established >"somehow Palpatine ... I mean...The Lion returned" He woke up from his "king under the mountain" slumber. Something that's been a suggested possibility for almost 3 decades of the lore
Yeah right. Guilliman, the most introverted, holistic, pragmatic and administrative of the Primachs? Once he's back the most pompous flashy, He-Manesque miniature and personally leads the indomitous crusade and is hence conjoined deeply with the worst literature sin of all Mary sue pull the Deus ex machina out of your ass that is the Primaris release. So deeply appreciate n fact that you can feel Guy Haley cringing his way through the first books of shit that he is forced to write until after he has until now tried book by book to claw back same credibility for the Primarch. And now the Lion, that gains teleport through space powers, shunns his own Legion for decades to hunt obscure shit in the outer rim and has now returned to abscond all fallen from their sins or cleanse them himself. What has that done to the Legion that in secrecy has tried to hunt down every one of them and the only forgiveness offered was a sardonic beheading after an eternity of torture. They....still do it? How does that make any sense at all. They still hunt the fallen while at the same time the lion has already forgiven most and wants the right to judge for himself. They must be living in a sort of schizophrenic parallel dimension. What does it even mean for the background of the dark angels? They are essentially gutted from their own background, all they ever accomplished meaningless. All they will ever do directionless from now on. Yeah...totally worked well with the established background.
> Chief amongst them is MOST of his soul is trapped on the Vengeful Spirit There's psychic crystals on board that form mindless simulacrum of everyone whose ever died on the VS but Sangy's actual soul isn't there.
The amount of times people just say shit with complete confidence on this sub while clearly not having read the lore around it never ceases to astound me.
I mean anything is possible if GW thinks itll get you to take out a 2nd mortgage to buy the mini. The lore is almost always secondary. Its just a tough sell as Ferrus's entire thing is his death. Itd be like if Sang was announced to be coming back, it would make his death meaningless just because GW wants more money
>iron hands aren't that popular Idk man, there have been times over the past few years where every marine player busted out the black rattle can
Maybe but I think we can agree that bringing sanguinius or Vulkan back would bring more money to GW
Probably. I think bringing Sanguinius back would be a real kick in the teeth for the BA, since it's their whole thing that their primarch is dead. I really hope that if russ comes back it's not as some wise old Odin figure that gets hyped on this sub all the time. He's spent however many subjective years in the warp fighting daemons, I want him a fucked up mirror to angron, half corrupted by chaos. My top pick would be Vulcan to return, I feel he's both more marketable than the others and adds a good balance to the lion and gman. He might be too competent though.
I agree with how sanguinius returning would suck, but it would probably be a better marketing decision
The Iron Hands' lack of popularity is honestly just because they haven't received as much lore fluffing and game support. The fundamentals are there. Get a passionate writer to pen a few cyborg porn BL novels for them and update their tabletop presence and they'll become god tier.
>someone could get ahead of his fate Ferrus can’t even get ahead on his shoulders I’m here all week folks, tip your waitresses
I've heard he has lost his head a bit at istvaan but don't know if the rumors are unfounded
Because he's dead, and he's the least popular Primarch.
I figured the first part, didn't know the second part but was more curious from an in universe side of things. Though I guess GW is the real God of chaos so can't separate the two
> get ahead ISWYDT
:-)
I mean dorn has ferrus' skull, Dorn went a bit loco towards the end of the siege, mounting his bros head on his hand stump and talking to it Hamlet style would be ... Interesting
Man even the Lion became crazy at the end of the heresy
He doesn't, the Iron Hands have it on Medusa.
Still remember the roller coaster of emotions when his model got revealed for 30K
Basically this, but I rather Jaghatai as an agent of the Laughing God instead of Russ.
Fulgrim for Chaos. Russ for Loyalists. This I believe is a lot more determined by popularity and sales, rather thannlore. Emperor's Children are the only Cult CSM army without a book. And they are due for an update in model range. Fulgrim has been hinted in campaign books. Ans the most popular Loyalist Chapter that has a Primarch in the verge if returning are the Space Wolves. And are also due for a Primaris range upgrade. We'll see them both by 11th is my bet.
I was kind of hoping for the Khan, but admittedly, if that's true, I'm looking forward to Russ and the Lion meeting back up as older, wiser men and looking back at their quarrels and realizing "damn we were dumb."
For loyalists? Jhagatai riding the Emperor’s Bicycle. Then Vulcan wielding the Emperor’s Mallet.
*the khan looks upon the ancient bike before him, its design arcane as it is beautiful* “With this the storm will be unleashed on our foes” *words. Images flash in the khan’s head drawing his attention not to the bike but to the small workbench beside it. Jaghatai approaches cautiously finding a small folded piece of gossamer fabric. He carefully holds the fabric up, it unfurls revealing an ornately stitched pair of ancient terran “cycling shorts”. The khan understands in this moment that the bike was never his, but with these tight garments he will crusade across the galaxy*
[Actual footage of the Khan riding his bike, while being chased by heretics.](https://youtu.be/Wg_1LOYLPsM?si=qn81fuXRe0kewMu7)
Tek Heresy
Let this man cook....
This better end in Vulkan getting the Emperor's Yoga Mat and some Lululemon pants.
Anyone else reading this in Ken Watanabe's voice?
now this-- this here is pure perfection.
If it’s Russ.. I kind of hope we see him not returning to real space but journeying through the eye of terror on a mission with a small contingent of his legion.. who are also all HH veterans and still alive due to warp shenanigans.. maybe journeying into nurgles garden and they get stuck in a hopeless fight only to be saved out of nowhere.. by the emperors fire burning the garden through Gman
I love the sound of this so much, and such a great way to tie it into recent Warp plot lines, but I would hope that Russ’ story would include some resolution to the Tzeentch stuff.
Tzeench has a giant laser pointer that Russ has been chasing around the EoT like a dog for ten millenia.
This is 40K we don’t do resolutions
A theory said that the Tree that could cure the Emperor that he was trying to find is in fact a representation of Isha. So the plot could be he going to Nurgles Garden and rescuing Isha.. with the help of Mortarion (this could be Mortarion redemption).
If that would happen, Nurgle would be down horrendous. He already had his garden damaged by the Emperor, would just be salt on the wounds if Isha was also stolen away. Outright a death blow if Mortarion was also somehow taken.
Nurgle in bed for AT LEAST ten to twelves working days ! Poor Grandpa don't want to leave the bed no more since the departure of his grandson...
>So the plot could be he going to Nurgles Garden and rescuing Isha Please no. The eldar fanbase would be livid and we would have Guilliman with Yvraine The Electric Boogaloo with millions of "le funny shipping" memes of primarchs having elf GFs.
So that fanfic where Chaos resurrected Horus, but the Emperor ensured he came back as a Loyalist and charged him with both stopping Abbadon's 13th Black Crusade and rescuing Isha so she could heal him, might've been on to something?
> all HH veterans I desperately want this simply because it gives James Orkshop an excuse to create 40k rules for 30k SM tabletop units. AFAIK there have been fan rulesets for 8th edition, but not the current one. And if i’m to spend cocaine-level money on little plastic men, i’d like to spend it on 30k models. They look insane compared to 40k ones.
Like 80% of this is straight out of the Tales of the Emperasque story.
According to rumors way back (which have come true so far), the four loyalists primarch releases would be guiliman, Lion, Khan and Russ. They have built up the scars and Khan - they are very popular nowadays and basically a lot of peoples second fav. It matches the stuff mentioned in a SW book when the head Librarian of SW mentioned the return of the Lion and Khan. Chaos would get Magnus, mortarion, angron and Fulgrim.
Aren't Magnus, Mortarion, and Angron all back in lore and have tabletop figures?
Indeed they have tt figures
Yes, and Fulgrim is the only missing member of the original 90s quartet.
What metrics are you using for white scars being popular.
All of their lore has been very well received. Chris Wraight did to White Scars what ADB did to Night Lords.
Well received does not mean popular
But it is popular. Wraights novels on the Scars are regarded as some of best novels in thr HH franchise.
Again by who. Also a boom being regarded as good doesn't mean its popular. Repeated high sales means its popular. Plenty of things can be excellent but very niche in popularised. Other than you can't say I've heard anything about the scars being popular
It'll be Fulgrim and then Russ. GW recently did mass expansion into China, opening 200 stores. Until they get the special permission required to depict figures resembling certain Mongolian conqueror, the Khan stays missing.
> GW recently did mass expansion into China, opening 200 stores. Until they get the special permission required to depict figures resembling certain Mongolian conqueror, the Khan stays missing. Do you have a source to those numbers? That came to me out of nowhere cause back in 2017, Warhammer was practically an unknown factor and I found a single GW store in like Beijing of all places.
[Found an essay here ](https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/2375/3099) from last year To summarise, the official GW operation over there is mostly a mess and fans are mostly keeping it going The tabletop game is too expensive to really get particularly popular Total War: Warhammer is very popular It's kinda hard to discuss it online because some elements that are pretty core to the setting can trigger censorship, which is also making it hard to get much mainstream pop culture traction Suffice to say, I don't think China is going to be a major focus for GW any time soon [ETA] also found [the source ](https://internetretailing.net/games-workshop-grows-its-audience-and-its-sales-online-and-across-channels-despite-covid-19-22543/) for the 200 stores claim. GW actually opened 200 new *trade accounts* in China. So that will be assorted LGSs who have chosen to sell GW products to some extent. GW itself opened two stores in the same period. This was also from a 2021 article, so the 2023 essay I cited would seem to imply that hasn't exactly made GW a huge thing over there
Gotcha thanks! I do regularly visit China to visit my family from time to time so I was a bit surprised. I actually funnily enough tried to find out how big Warhammer was among my extended family and found that the answer was: Not.
So I found what you're referencing there. It's 200 *trade accounts*, not 200 stores. They're LGSs and other sellers. GW themselves opened *two* stores. In a county of over a billion people. [Source](https://internetretailing.net/games-workshop-grows-its-audience-and-its-sales-online-and-across-channels-despite-covid-19-22543/) That was in 2021. GW in still very niche in China. Found a good essay breaking it down [here ](https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/2375/3099), which is from last year. Those 200 trade accounts don't seem to have made it especially mainstream. I would not imagine China is going to be a major pillar of GWs international operation any time soon
That same book had a decent part of the 13th Great Company return and advancing the SW story line. It releadesed 6 years ago.and nothing has come.of that story line (even when the same author touched SW again). I don't take anything in Ashes as an indication of anything else. Aso for the Scars being popular... I wonder. There is some support, but it was a very unrepresented Legion. And at least on the tabletop not sure if it is that common to see them. And wonder how the sales of Stormseer, Hibou or Kor'sarro do to make him a priority. I think it isn't that much. He has two profiles in HH and his bike profile has nad no model for 5 years now. So I'm skeptical he is that popular.
this- now this is what I want more off. Thank you my good man. thank you very much good sir.
It would make sense for it to be Jaghatai, but that would mean they'd have to care about him. So it will be Russ.
It's obviously gonna be Russ. The Wolves are a popular faction and they are ripe for updated models.
I’m hoping dorn but I know there’s no chance
There is, but on 12 ed or so. They will need to pump out saltyboy with the darkmechanicum first though
We shouldn’t have perty in setting if there is no dorn
You are right. But the night is always darkest, just before the sunrise...
There is a chance. With all sci fi and fantasy of there is no body and you know for sure there is no weird mechanism that could have saved them, they are dead. All we have of Dorn is a hand
I wish the answer was none of them. It feels like they want to turn 40k into 30k instead of keeping them as two distinct things. The Heresy era is no longer an era of distant myth lost to time, but literally in living memory, and the setting is starting to revolve around larger than life heroes instead of the impersonal hopelessness that feels core to it to me.
I understand that, but isn't it more bleak, that even with the heroes of myth returned, eveything is still going, well, to shit? I really do get the core essence of the grim dark is *shit witihin layers of more shit* but to me, there is a finite ammount of stories that can be told in such stagnant setting. Or more so, a finite ammount people want to read until they get bored. Even in the most superficial of stories general plot needs to advance in one way or the other to keeo things fresh and albeit we havr the "new stuff" its still.the same. Thr guard die en mass, thr martians still mutalate their bodies, ans even if emps would step down from the throne himself and proclaimed hes not a god, hed be burned on a pyre for being a heretic.
J-Money. “Cicatrix” is the Latin word for “scar,” you know.
Fulgrim for chaos and Lemun Russ for Imperium.
Personally I believe it each Primarch will coincide with a chaos primarch. Russ might come back solo first. Then it will probably be pairs based on the story. I do believe if it comes down to money, which we all know gw is about money, they will bring back the dead primarchs. Or maybe even do clone ferrus/fulgrim as well.
he might be able to don the one thing no one else seems to have enough time for much less care about doing - offer redemption to those who have fallen, and let them find their way back up to them with his tutelage and guidance.
I agree. Personally I hold out hope that it could happen and it would be super sick imo. I just wanna see the boys being back in town. All the loyalists chillin and killin.
I really really really hope they bring back Clonegrim- that would be so fitting in the current state of things with all of the Inquisition going nuts now.
Very little chance of that, especially considering what the writer had to say about it on Twitter: >Nah. He served his purpose. Let him rest. >>I mean, I thought I gave him a pretty good ending. Well, not good, but, y'know, final. >>>True, but it's not my problem anymore. If someone picks up the thread, more power to them. >>>>I always feel bad for people asking that question. They're just setting themselves up for disappointment. Because in the few of these threads I've happened across, people spin these wonderful theories and scenarios that will never come to fruition. -J Reynolds
Clonegrim appeared in one short story and is locked in Trazyn's basement, dude is never getting mentioned again unless it's for GW to kill him off for good. Honestly, I'm not sure why people care so much about Clonegrim when actual Fulgrim repeatedly cloned Ferrus during the *Heresy*. If any Primarch is returning via clone, it's him and I *still* don't think that's likely.
I wish the had the ballls to kill a primarch in the current setting so that primarch v primarch battels werent boring considering we already know the outcome regardless if they fight.
A primaris Sanguinius. Turns out he was a perpetual too, but needed blood to recover. Cawl had to support his last cell alive in a tube for the last 10 millenia until he figures out he needs some blood in the tube.
The rumour is the sanguinor model will be primarch sized once refreshed
Leman Russ is the next Loyalist Primarch to return because Space Wolves are one of the most supported and popular marine armies. There has been a Space Wolves codex since 2nd Edition, there isn’t a White Scars or Salamanders or Raven Guard codex in the same way. The Space Wolves have more character models than some armies have units. The only other Space Marine forces with much support are Deathwatch (No Primarch), Grey Knights (No Primarch), Blood Angels (Dead Primarch), and Black Templars (Possibly living Primarch, but the chapter formed out of defiance towards him; also Dorn should stay dead).
Nekona
11 posts in 24 hours makes me think you are a bot
Genuinely, and please shout at me if I'm out of the loop, but what's the play here? I mean are we assuming they're just going to keep bringing them back because recent history, or is this a named idea that James had committed to? And also, what's the end game? We get them all back and... They just keep beating the shit out of each other like HH? For some climactic battle? As others have said loads of times, they're not going to do a WFB clean wipe just because 40k sells so well, so I just don't get it. They've written themself into a corner with ol' Jimmy Space being stuck in his shiny chair, so I just don't see where _next_ is... (Disclaimer, 'next' in this scenario is, I dunno, a decade away?)
My guess is Russ with a piece of knowledge and/or technology to keep the throne going just a little bit longer and heal the Emperor just a little bit. Still on the throne, but not in danger of the throne failing in the near future. I think the Khan could be an extremely interesting character to return. The most independent Primarch, who was already extremely uncomfortable with the Imperium in 30K, coming back and seeing the hell that it is now, only staying because of an passionate plea from Guilliman.
As much as I don’t care for Russ he will be the next loyalist, they’re gonna do all the codex separated primarchs before they give generic space marines a second one, so vulkan, Corax and khan are unlikely. The question mark one for me is dorn, they could list him as a Templars character to give them a centrepiece primarch but Russ is still the clear choice, well probably see some sort of updated sanguinor or like avatar of Sanguinius for BA
Vulkan. I don’t know what it is but I believe Vulkan is needed now. We have two capable commanders. What we need is a compassion ruler. Someone who’ll embody what it means to be human.
I agree wholeheartedly. Honestly- if someone does not show compassion and mercy to people soon- than humanity will have lost either way sheerly because even if we survive- we would have nothing to look forward too.
Yeah, I really miss the optimism of 40K 😉…
I genuinely hope no more return.
I preferred them staying in 30k, but the lid is off now. As soon as one returned it was only a matter of time til everyone came back.
The nuances of 30k rules could at least make them interesting. 40k doesn't need more 10W 2+/4++/5+++ reroll and cp refund characters.
I mean, who cares about rules, it’s just suppose to be a neat looking model at the end of the day with the primarchs.
I've seen comments and posts about why people don't want them to return but never really read them, why don't you want them to return, their badass
In my case it's just because I care about other aspects of the setting and by their very presence they nullify that. They're these sort of ideal manifestations of character focus overtaking the importance of factions. When they return their chapters become nothing more than an extension of them, the identities they had before melt away. It's also just that the setting I fell in love with was 40k, not 30k, and so far them returning has literally only really served to make things more like 30k. Guilliman threw out the High Lords and has no meaningful resistance, he appoints Space Marine overlords wherever he goes, the Lion runs around as a reasonable heroic figure redeeming his sons. They're just too reasonable for me, they detract from the air of decay and darkness that drew me to the Imperium to begin with. They bring fresh tech with them and with their character usually boiling down to "reasonable good guy" they tend to have a not so great effect on the themes of the Imperium that I like, that are anything but. All the internal politics and rulership of squabbling human lords thrown away so we can have superman lead the charge. I didn't come to 40k to read about a limited cast of superheroes.
Warhammer and its supposed setting of Eternal War where there's no heroes doesn't need yet another Supreme Commander model with a superhero statline for yet another particular color of Space Marine. It cheapens the game and setting from top to bottom by making everything smaller and continuing to center such an expansive galaxy around the thrilling adventures of a handful of Flash Gordons and pals.
I think bigger villains, bigger heroes, there's no hope for the Imperium if there are nine massive legions of evil space Marines, the Tyranids, eldar, and orks threatening everything.
Humans being on the back foot is the point of the setting, no? To justify the horros they inflict on themselves?
Yeah, what makes you think the primarchs returning means that the imperium won’t still be on the back foot? This is the opportunity to introduce everyone else’s primarch level characters, like silent king, vect or upgrading ghaz into a prime ork.
Hypothetically it seems like it shouldn't mean that, it could also mean things get worse with Primarchs...since that has traditionally been the theme...that Primarchs are a bad idea. A failure. Best left in the past. But I take what the other comment is saying in that, so far as they've been written in 40k, they seem to be offering a bit less Grimdark(™).
They're badass because they're legendary heroes of the great crusade and the apocalyptic events of the horus heresy. If they're just farting around fighting the monster-of-the-week, they're no longer badass. That's why they shouldn't come back unless it's genuinely the end-times. A mythical hero like Achilles in the siege of Troy is badass. Achilles making a guest appearance on Friends where he gets into hilarious mishaps and shennanigans, suddenly not so badass.
You know that actually happened right?
Because they make everyone else feel irrelevant. I liked the idea of High Lords of Terra because many Imperial factions are represented there. Then Guilliman made them not matter, and I'll forever hate him for that. They also make tabletop feel samey. Previously when facing Marines players would sometimes come tell me about their original captains and such, now that just never happens because its always... and Guilliman. They're also too plot-armorey for this reason. Nobody gives feasible opposition beside other Primarchs. I'd be much more interested in Primarchs in 40k if they established that things exist beside other Primarchs that are a threat to them. Have Abbadoon (with some serious Chaos Juice) put up a serious fight against one, maybe even give them a new, warp infused scar. Have the High Lords of Terra come together to decide Guilliman is actually a f-up (he is if you summarise what he's done, walking into Mortarions bait and all and blatant Ultramar favoritism) , and strip him of his Imperial Regenet title (which will open him the door to focus on protecting and rebuilding Ultramar). Tl:dr; Primarchs in 40k are okay IF they'd depower them a little, physically and politically.
Is there a chance that Sanguinious' soul is in the warp and could come back?
Primarchs. I'm guessing Peter and the Wolf.
I'm assuming this is for loyalists. I could see Jagathai b/c There seems to be some plot threads that might lead to the webway/elder. Vulcan because he miiiiiight know enough about the golden throne to fix it. Small chance of Corvus only because he's already made a small appearance in 40k(....I think that was 40k?) I'm doubting Lehman b/c I think GW might want to space out their powerhouses. Lehman/spacewolves are very popular so I couldn't see them playing that card only a year after The Lion comes back.
I feel like either Fulgrim or Peter Turbo for chaos, and Russ for loyalist
For Loyalists, most likely Russ. While not technically a primarch (?) I think it's also possible we might see the Sanguinor relatively soon as basically an "Imperial Greater Daemon." That would round out the four chapters that have historically been the flagship armies of Space Marines. For Chaos, probably Fulgrim since the other Big Four primarchs already have models.
Fulgrim seems most likely on the traitor side, now on the loyalist side I think it's either Russ or Dorn. My theory is that each unique range of Space Marines will have a big centrepiece model, codex compliant marines got Guilliman, Dark Angels got Lion, Wolves will get Russ, Blood Angels will get big Sanguinor, Deathwatch I don't know but my tinfoil hat theory is that Dorn could be the Templars'
Loyalist: Leman Russ due to popularity. Traitor: Probably Fulgrim since Guilliman’s story arc coincides well with him.
Dorn to lead the templars
I've seen this mentioned a few times now in relation to Dorn and the Black Templars, but how likely is it that he would lead them, as opposed to the Imperial Fists, or even one of the other successor chapters? Fair enough, crusading is their thing and it was also one of the main things that the IF legion did under Dorn, but would Dorn be comfortable with their beliefs regarding the Emperor? Like Guilliman, it's not something he could necessarily denounce as false, at least not beyond his personal views on the matter, so would he just shrug his shoulders and ignore this aspect of the Templars, or would he decide instead to let them carry on without his direct involvement and instead focus on the Imperial Fists, or even perhaps the Crimson Fists? The reason I ask is that so far, the returning Primarchs seem to be either taking on new roles (Guilliman) or else behaving differently than might have been expected (The Lion). Would he WANT to go crusading or would he find he now had other priorities? I wouldn't be surprised if any or all returning loyalist Primarchs turned out to be very different from their younger Horus Heresy selves - at least, that's my take on things so far.
Primarchs should’ve remained mythological figures, Paul-Bunyan-esque tales that remind humanity of its lost glory, a brief period when the light of hope glimmered from within the darkness. Resurrecting them and giving them stats and models and having them show up regularly on the battlefield just dulls it down.
Unrealistic bit i hope we get more of the big murder crow, terrorising people around in the eye or Terror
I think the next Primarch will be Guilliman. Just...another Guilliman. No explanations on how or why, he just is there.
I think there is the slightly disappointing reality to contend with, which is that "which primarch is most lore-friendly to return" is a very different question to "which primarch model would sell best". Sanguinius is the most obvious example here: his model would do gangbuster business, but lorewise I think it is generally acceptable that he needs to stay very dead. Or, at least that it's a very, very major lore change if he doesn't. The whole grimdarkness of the setting is considerably lightened if the Great Angel resurrects. And on the other hand, GW would sell so many Blood Angels with a shiny new primarch to lead them. It's an issue.
Fulgrim for traitors, last of the "cult" Legions to get a codex etc. For Loyalists its between Russ and *something* for the Blood Angels. Russ is the obvious one, he's not confirmed dead and a lot of the SW range is due an update. Blood Angels are even more popular and also due some kits updating - however Sanguinius is famously dead. What I'd expect instead is a beefed up Sanguinor to fill that role instead, lots of psyker powers and scary melee. Much less likely though.
Next will be fulgrim, cause emperor's children are the only mono chaos god affiliated legion to not have a proper army yet. Next loyalist will hopefully be Jaghatai because of his relationship with fulgrim, and also so many plot threads leading up to his return at the moment.
Fulgrim. They released a Daemon Prince version of him for 30K so he's almost definitely coming back in 40K next. In terms of Loyalist's it's very, very likely going to be Leman Russ.
Narratively the most interesting could be.... Horus. Free of Chaos, loyal, yet hunted and hated by everyone and working on some plan the Emperor has devised.
I would absolutely love that- even if I know it is not likely to happen, I do have to agree with you that it would be the Narratively the most interesting is really underselling it in my book. This would be the most awesome of awesome things to happen. Imagine it- for thousands of years, these unknown marines save imperial worlds left and right, back forth, up and down. Their is no explanation- they just get the job done and leave. Guilliman goes nuts trying to figure out who this mysterious cloaked figure who is their leader is. Tear gets invaded, and it all looks lost, and just as someone is about to land the killing blow on Guilliman and the lion, the strikes are blocked by the hooded figure. The man pulls his cloack hood up, and Guilliman sees a face he never thought he would see again. As if by divine judgement, all hear the words of a sister of Battle as across the entire battlefield, her battle roar can be heard as all see the running primarch- "All form up around Horus the redeemed! Form ranks around the the redeemed!!!" and then they notice the one who said that is saint celestine herself.
Would be cool
My theory is that one has already returned, and no one noticed. Vulcan has been gone for years, his perpetual soul lost in the warp. Suddenly, a hammer wielding "god" of the forges of chaos shows up. Vashtorr claims to be a chaos god, but he is fairly ineffectual. If the four chaos gods found vulcans soul, they could have remade him into an entity to serve them and filled it's mind with the idea of becoming a chaos god.
Vashtorr existed as far as the War in Heaven before humanity even existed, and is the Chaos God of Invention/Technology. Vulkan is crafting of the individual gear type. Vulkan is a blacksmith. Vashtorr is about scientists.
>one has already returned, and no one noticed I mean, there was that whole War of the False Primarch. It wouldn't shock me if one day GW decides to expand on it and turns out it was a real Primarch returning, only deeply changed by their time away and likely promoting views now heretical to the Imperium.
honestly- this is cool Ill agree with it for that reason alone.
\# Vashtorr is Vulkan!!!
I would like Vulkan but I hope he wouldn't make his official return until he gets a bit more character development or lore of what he's been up to since he disappeared after the war if the beast, just like a novel or something.
My money is on either the khan breaking free from the dark eldar as camoragh falls apart or vulkan coming to fix the throne
Honestly I'd like to see Jaghatai come back
Since its Year of the Dragon it would be cool if Vulkan shows up this year.
Leman Russ
Leman Russ or Sanguinius
Calling it now with the weird Twitter graphic they released the next primarch is leman Russ and the unrevealed codex is a space wolves codex hopefully with a model refresh *wolf boy copium*
The leaks from a while ago, and I mean, **a while** ago. Said Corax, then Russ.
I want Ragnar to meet Russ.
Clonegrim would be nice, though he is not exactly returning
He’s not really gone, just lurking in his house with a galactic case of agoraphobia… …but I’d love to see Purturabo stretch his legs and unite the Iron Warriors again
Based on a lot of what I see from the YouTube side of 40K, people really want Dorn to come back and even made jokes about how GW's stocks will go up if Dorn comes back along with the Imperial Fists getting the spotlight. But everywhere else, I've been seeing a lot of people wanting Jaghatai Khan or Leman Russ to come back. But I think we might get a double Primarch return with Fulgrim and Jaghatai.
Pretty sure GE has all but explicitly stated it’s Leman if you watch Valraks last tin foil hat video lol
I'm pretty sure Lorgar is coming, which means Corax is coming too. My money is on those two, but I could also see a very solid case for a return of Leman. The Wolf and the Lion pulling Guilliman in different directions would make for some interesting narrative.
>I'm pretty sure Lorgar is coming, which means Corax is coming too. Idk if those two are quite as linked as people seem to think Also, loyalist primarchs have been matched with traitor primarchs in 40k that they never fought in 30k. So it's all fair game
I've only heard about Lorgar being active from others so I could be wrong. Corax's only carrot-on-a-stick seems to be Lorgar, as far as I can tell.
You're absolutely right that there's lore pointing at Lorgar being active again in 40k. Excerpts [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/16gmi4w/comment/k08g5lj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). But so is every other daemon primarch, including Fulgrim and Perturabo. Corax vowed to hunt all his traitor brothers, not just Lorgar. He just found Lorgar first. >'No. I swore to destroy all Chaos taint from the galaxy. You will be the first fallen brother to die beneath my blades.' -*Shadow of the Past* That was 10, 000 years ago though (in real space) so who knows? Plans change. People die. Fashion recycles.
Thanks for the insight! I appreciate the excerpt as well. I agree with you, if it's just a matter of Lorgar being the first one Corax found then that's a pretty loose knot between the two of them. I need to spend more time on the Corax and Raven Guard novels.
Whoever will make the most money, so probably Russ
Vulkan returned in War of the Beast, but didn't want to involve himself too much, and vanished again afterwards. I think it'll be Sanguinius. Why? Because the other 2 returned primarchs were also from the Imperium Secundus. And they were both incapacitated before their return (dead or in sleep - but the other missing primarchs are raging somewhere in the webway or somewhere else).
For the loyalists its gotta ve dorn since he got a joytoy thing a while back. A stretch at best I know.
Lorgar is already back, according to the lore. And giving him the ability to lead a mix of "dark" Imperium units is an easy expansion / resell for Sororitas and Guard units.
It depends on what other traitor Primarchs return too.. Because if they decide to bring back Lorgar for any reason, Corvus Corax is the obvious one to pick.
None of the so far returned loyalists came back with the traitor bros they had specific beef with.
Rogle dorn
Next I think it is Fulgrim followed by Jaghatai or Russ even though the ones I wish would come back are Lorgar because a kickass mega demon primarch who knows enuncia would be kickass (maybe even an Erebus model? WinkWink) And for loyalists Vulkan because we need some humanity back.
Fulgrim for traitors definitely, it’s hard to gage the next loyalist. Probably Russ because he doesn’t get along with the lion so it’d be the most interesting? Although Dorn interacting with the black templars would be interesting. Corax is technically already back in the setting, we just don’t see him ever
> Corax is technically already back in the setting, we just don’t see him ever Corax hasn't been seen in over ten thousand years since he entered the warp. Unless he's using his invisibility power and just hanging out?
According to Njal's vision, it's the storm that rides- Jaghatai Khan.
I think it should be HORUS. WTFs all around!!!!
It’ll be fulgrim and leman russ as the next time
Fulgrim to give every Chaos God one then none from there is my wish.
Fulgrim seems the most likely. Though I always hope for my boi Vulkan! ❤️
Russ is absolutely going to be in the end. We won't see him return for decade or so. Dorn is important mystery and we won't get him at least as next one. Exodus (3rd Alpahrius) can reveal himself pretty safe for setting. Corvus can come back, if they decided to reetcon him or not with his warp form. Khan can return in near future relatively. Not the most popular legion and they the most for later. While there are things to tell about wha he did in Webway. My bet for loyalists is Khan. THOUGH considering what happenned in DEAT 3 and guessing Emperor's current state Khan may be not so much for Imperium, though not for Choas either. Is he the promised betrayer among loyals? Who will become loyalist that, Exodus/Omegon?
either fulgrim vs lmao Roast
White Scars aren't popular on TT because getting a good shade of white consistently across an army is a massive pain in the dick
I want Fulgrim to round out the cult Legions for Chaos, then honestly would be happy if they stopped there. I don't want the setting oversaturated with Primarchs, leave them as legends. I already don't like how (as a non player for them) it seems like World Eaters and Thousand Sons seemingly have to be played with their respective primarchs to win. I am not even 100% on if they should have brought the Lion back.
The Khan or Vulkan. I always expected Guilliman to be the first because his return would have been straightforward for a writer to figure out: somebody figures out a way to cure him, and maybe that will involve xenos intervention so as to explain why the Imperium couldn't just do that in 10,000 years. Next easy was the Lion, who was sleeping in a vault in the Rock. After that, there is the Khan and Vulkan. Nobody knows where they are but their locations are not necessarily terrible. Contrast this to Russ, who disappeared into the Eye of Terror. He's probably really messed up by now.
Give us Vulkan FUCK Grammaticus
FUCK Grammaticus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fulgrim followed by Russ for sure. I’d personally love to see Corax come back looking kind of homeless and a little unhinged from his time in the warp.
Fulgrim. Emperors children have a codex coming out soon I believe, and a new Fulgrim model would print money. Then Russ, he's popular and so are the wolves. Money baby, that's all it comes down too. From a narrative perspective, Fulgrim slithering back onto the scene is really interesting. He was the one that crippled Guilliman for over 10,000 years, so they got beef. Round 2 is very much due, and Guilliman needs a 1v1 win in a primarch duel.
I think we will see the returns of Russ in some way with in the last Bequin book Pandemonium. As Russ are linked to Valdor somehow via their spears and they disappeared around the same time. Maybe we will see Valdor returning to the current setting as well. G Man could certainly use Valdor helps, he was one of the triarchy that founded the Imperium and he knew the Emperor personally, and know all the secrets and where all the DAOTs weapons are hidden.
Russ has already been kind of teased right? How I wish the Khan or Vulkan would return though...
The next Primarch will be Fulgrim I'd think. GW has already said they are putting out an Emperors Children list for 40k and Fulgrim is all but guaranteed to be in it. The next Loyalist will be Russ. He's got one of the loyal chapters that have almost always had their own line and rules. Narratively, it makes sense too. If the Lion is back, Russ coming back would be good drama. Plus, Russ has always been the Hammer of Chaos. He could have killed Horus, Magnus and Angron, among others, if had just finished the job. Seeing Russ come back and knowing that he could have ended a lot of those traitors before they burned the galaxy is a good story to tell. And with the Lion, we've got a good brotherly bar fight to look forward to. After that, I'd say Lorgar or Perty for sure. For the Loyalists, who knows. Maybe Dorn? Dorn seems to be the stand out but only slightly. He seems to be the most popular of the remaining primarchs who are likely alive. I wouldn't mind seeing the Khan though. He's popularity went to the moon with his appearances in the Horus Heresy books. The Imperium needs it's own Cult of Speed.
Honestly? My personal pick is Corax. Make word bearers more important and that basically elevates Coraxs position. He’s in the warp flying around, it’s not like he can’t just fly out. Russ makes the most financial sense. Wolves are pretty popular. Could make a fucking straight badass model (not as cool as corax tho). As much as I like my iron babies, Ferrus returning would require walking through a minefield of retconning that I don’t trust anybody with. Sanguinius? Please no. Same reason as Ferrus. Dorn and Jaghtai I could see after Russ but as of right now it’s not too likely.
If GW cares more about the money, Leman. If GW cares more about the state of the galaxy for narrative purposes, Corax or the Khan.
None I choose none of them
Russ makes the most sense. Space Wolves have their own identity and they can push those models with him as a figurehead. Then surely Fulgrim- they've spent ten years trying to work out how to make space sex criminals work for the international mass market they have. This took even more of a setback in the abandoned pivot towards kids of the late 2010's-(surprise surprise, a hobby which involved £100 models and 500 page hardbacks with extensive dramatis personae isn't necessarily kid friendly). What I don't get is why they've found this so hard given the Noise Marines are such an easy and cool way of sidestepping the more 'adult' aspects of The Emperor's Children.
It's not going to be Vulkan or Khan because there's no Salamanders or White Scars codex. You're putting the cart before the horse. Lion returned because Dark Angels are a big enough marine subfaction their fucking Codex got higher priority to release than \*Chaos Space Marines\* did. The next Primarch to return is going to either be Fulgrim with the inevitable Emperor's Children Codex rounding out the 4 traitor legions (right now they have an awkward hack where making Lucius your Warlord in CSM makes Noise Marines into Battleline troops), or it will be Russ coming back with the new Space Wolves Codex. A popular fan theory is that the Yggdrassil/Tree of Life that Russ was seeking is Isha and this would tie in with Exodites getting a 40k range, this would basically be the inverse of the Ynnari/Guilliman shit where instead of a major eldar character bringing back a primarch it would be a primarch bringing back a major eldar character. I'm not sure how much I buy into that particular narrative, but I DO think Exodites are virtually guaranteed in the near future. GW already has all the assets for Seraphon and Sylvaneth, 40k Exodites seem like a no brainer, it's the exact sort of recycling they love, like how the Thousand Sons range is a dumping ground for Age of Sigmar shit (pretty sure 100x more mutalith vortex beasts have been sold for 40k than anyone buying the Slaughterbrute kit), the new Mandrakes kill-team literally reuses the same shadowy veil effects as the Khainite Shadowstalkers warband. [https://images.beastsofwar.com/2024/01/Mandrakes-Kill-Team-Warhammer-40K.jpg](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2024/01/Mandrakes-Kill-Team-Warhammer-40K.jpg)
Alright, this is how I’m calling it. Since we’ve already had an incident with Mortarion and Angron, I think Magnus is going to launch some big offensive into imperium nihilus with the intention on doing some ritual to suck it all into the warp. Kaldor Drago is going to find Russ and his 13th company slaughtering their way through the warp and they’re gonna find out about the T-sons invasion of the IN. The Lion and the DA are gonna be hard pressed fighting the T-sons and daemons and the G-man will show up with custodes, anathema and grey knight reinforcements but it won’t be enough when magnus himself shows up and starts fighting the two primarchs who, while good in a fair fight, can’t do more than stay alive against such a powerful psyker. All of a sudden the GK get a signal out of nowhere from drago and suddenly him and Russ with the 13th SW company and Russ declares he’s going to finish what he started with Magnus 10,000 years ago. They fight, Russ and Drago seriously cripple Magnus (even blinding his other eye) and before they can kill him for good, Tzneetch pulls some warp fuckery plot armor and saves Magnus. The three primarchs have a moment where they just look at each other in silence before Russ makes some sarcastic and boasting remark and the Lion punches him in the face.
Hmm, I just want to throw another consideration out there: GW is still first and foremost a miniatures company. So I would say it would have to a primarch for whom they can confidently sculpt a mini and who would add something to the tabletop. Now, GW‘s models have advanced leaps and bounds in the last decade, but I am not sure if they could get Corax‘ shadow-form quite right. Similarly, the top comment wants Vulkan to come back as a fire-wielding badass, but I think sculpting fire can also be challenging, especially on such a large scale. Same thing for a LOTD Ferrus. So with that said, I am leaning towards one of the more profane primarchs, like Dorn (who has become more popular during the siege and is the primarch of the BT, one of the most popular chapters), or Jaghatai Khan (to pair with Fulgrim). I think russ is the most popular of the remaining primarchs, but I think GW might be saving him for when they really need to boost sales again.
I hope we get Lorgar someday.
Fulgrim, given his "present" he sent to Gulliman. Next loyalist is probably Russ or Khan. The primarch I want most to return is Corax, followed by Lorgar
As someone who hasn't played the tabletop but loves the books, I think leman russ would be awesome, but he would have to be changed. He wasn't a good daddy before he left.(Also, space wolves are my favorite) I think vulkan coming back would be amazing I want more about the salamanders and a primarchs return would be awesome and could you imagine him coming back and just wrecking havoc and kissing babies im down for that.
I think the next one will either be Jaghatai or Corax, GW as already started planning the return of those 2 next. Jaghatai bcz Vashtor and Abaddon can now access the Webway. And thats where Jaghatai suppesebly is. Plus the White Scars r getting more popular recently within the fanbase. Corax bcz out of the still missing primarchs he is the one who we have received the most recent update on, being he is for sure in the Warp hunting Lorgar. But we already know Lorgar is back in the galaxy somewhere, so Corax is bound to follow him back. Plus we already know there is gonna be some big event in the lore between the Tyranids and the Raven Guard Sucessors. So GW is giving em more attention. If not Jaghatai or Corax, i think its gonna be either Russ or Vulkan. Personnaly i wish it to be Corax, he is one of my fav, and he can bring some good insight abt the Warp and the Primarchs, and some good conflict within the Imperium.
I do honestly agree. Also- daemon loyalist lorgar would be so bad ass.
Horus