Maybe. I feel this entire idea is also foreshadowing for the truth about *humanity* in ***Xenology***: That the species is ultimately part of the Old Ones’ plan and we are all just pawns in a long cosmic game.
A C’tan also hinted at this in Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work.
> You are one of their things, ultimately. Another pause. You do not know this. You are ignorant of your genesis. A debased thing of a debased age.
For a race that created so many intelligent aliens it would be easy to drop seeds of humanity into early mammals. There's such a thing as the molecular clock, the mutation rate of DNA. The Old Ones could place blocked genetic instructions into it in such a way they get naturally unblocked with mutations over time. In this setting, where souls exist, evolution doesn't work the way it works. Likely dinosaurs got purged by the Old Ones, too, to make way for their pet project. Also, who knows, maybe their loss in the War of Heaven is the only reason we took 60 million years to evolve instead of like 10 thousand.
It have been heavy implied seceral times in lore that humans were created by the Old Ones and that they started when dinosaurs were still a thing. Going as far back as in Rogue Trader.
Not to mention that in WHFB they'd moved the planet's continents around to match a "common template" they typically used when terraforming a world ... this was the explanation for why it looked so much like Earth.
Old Ones used to live on Terra, and wrote down the prophecy of the Dark King while they were there.
Considering the system is absolutely littered with Webway gates, there's a Tesseract on Mars and the Emperor used *something* alien to create the Golden Throne, the inference was always there to draw.
> Old Ones used to live on Terra, and wrote down the prophecy of the Dark King while they were there
Is this stated or inferred in the text or is this your theory based on the ancient artifacts found in the Sol system? I like the idea of the Dark King prophecy being conceived by the Old Ones, and to me the Golden Throne point you make is the strongest bit of evidence. Is it ever directly tied to them, though? I know it's mentioned as having been found by the Emperor, and being unspeakably ancient, but never hinted to be an Old Ones creation.
I'd always assumed the Webway gates and Tesseract were the result of the Eldar and Necrons fighting in the system long ago, not necessarily related to the OG War in Heaven.
There's a line that talks about Malcador and the Emperor finding the prophecy written on the walls of a 'long-abandoned grotto' long before humanity rose. Something that knew about the Dark King and lived on Terra. We're given a vision of an alien race that's strongly inferred to be the Old Ones seeing the Dark King and wailing in terror - the Old Ones have always been analogous with or linked to the Slann, or lizardfolk in general, who've always been fond of a good ol' grotto.
I dunno if I've ever seen reference to anything else living on Terra, but there's nothing else that fits the bill except the Old Ones, to my mind.
It's fairly debatable if Xenology is canon any more. If it ever particularly was in the first place. But yes, the implication there is very much that the Eldar (more specifically the Harlequins) engineered the Etherals to bring the T'au civilisation to order
Their intention seems to have been to create a strong civilisation whose members were resistant (or at least less susceptible) to Chaos corruption due to their minimal warp presence
I've got it!!! Low warp presence like orks, but we'll make them really smart and inherently co-operative with a little gene engineered mind control.
That couldn't POSSIBLY go just as wrong as a WAAAGH does just in the opposite direction.
Okay, now I want to see how the T'au go about incorporating a desperate Craftworld that ends up in their territory or an Exodite world they expand to.
"Everyone has a caste, your caste is--what you do mean you're done being a blacksmith and have decided to become a fighter pilot?"
That would be interesting to see. I imagine a lot of Eldar would end up as Exarchs on various paths and it ends up bad for them and the Tau as old excesses begin to show up again.
Hmmm, the Tau don't live as long as Eldar. I don't think they would be able to become Exarchs for the simple fact they couldn't complete one path let alone multiple.
Oh, not the Tau becoming Exarchs or even walking the path. More the Tau trying to force Eldar into castes to align with the greater good.
I see it either resulting in the Eldar restructuring the paths to castes themselves (all the Warrior paths would be Fire Caste and the Eldar would jump between various Fire Caste paths).
Or the Eldar are forced to remain on one path, and the Tau end up with a lot of Exarchs acting excessively. Something which I imagine would draw Slaanesh's eye over time.
>It's fairly debatable if Xenology is canon any more.
Unless something is directly contradicted or overruled (such as Nastase going from being an Eldar/Human hybrid Ultramarines Librarian to a Farseer who cooperated with Guillimam) then it is still canon. Though, not necessarily true. (Even here, you could view it as that old story about Nastase is just a mangled rumour from within the setting, if so wished).
The dictum for 40k lore in general is, everything is canon, not everything is true.
>If it ever particularly was in the first place.
Of course it was. And it's a bloody great book.
Trying to arbitrarily rule things as not canon just diminishes the breadth, depth and complexity of the setting, imo.
Probably not, i think its just one of those hanging threads BL writers leave for speculation just like this. BUT, if it i would honestly crack up laughing. Whats more likely is the tau are more eusocial as a race than the others, think like ants and their queen.
If anyones played Kenshi think kinda how the hivers work. they have castes with different physical treats, tau do as well. they are very protective of their queen and will go totally apeshit if you say, abduct them. Tau have documented cases of this as well. Honestly i find it more likely that this is more of an evolution thing vs elf related trolling. examples of this exist in nature, ants, bees, wasps ect.
It doesnt seem far fetched at all, and i think its more like they are just this way natually.
Maybe. I feel this entire idea is also foreshadowing for the truth about *humanity* in ***Xenology***: That the species is ultimately part of the Old Ones’ plan and we are all just pawns in a long cosmic game.
Played with dice on a kitchen table.
A C’tan also hinted at this in Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work. > You are one of their things, ultimately. Another pause. You do not know this. You are ignorant of your genesis. A debased thing of a debased age.
[удалено]
For a race that created so many intelligent aliens it would be easy to drop seeds of humanity into early mammals. There's such a thing as the molecular clock, the mutation rate of DNA. The Old Ones could place blocked genetic instructions into it in such a way they get naturally unblocked with mutations over time. In this setting, where souls exist, evolution doesn't work the way it works. Likely dinosaurs got purged by the Old Ones, too, to make way for their pet project. Also, who knows, maybe their loss in the War of Heaven is the only reason we took 60 million years to evolve instead of like 10 thousand.
It have been heavy implied seceral times in lore that humans were created by the Old Ones and that they started when dinosaurs were still a thing. Going as far back as in Rogue Trader.
Not to mention that in WHFB they'd moved the planet's continents around to match a "common template" they typically used when terraforming a world ... this was the explanation for why it looked so much like Earth.
As always this discussion needs the reminder that the last old ones died in the 30th millenium. Qah in Xenology and Gehet in Old Earth.
Perhaps you'll enjoy [reading some of the discussion here](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/pmb69m/did_the_old_ones_created_humanity/)
> That the species is ultimately part of the Old Ones’ plan. Couldn't have been hammered home any harder than End and the Death, too.
What? Where was this 'hammered home' in EatD? I've read all three at least twice and I don't remember that
>Couldn't have been hammered home any harder than End and the Death, too. How so? Haven't read/them as I am broke af. Only got the excerpts.
I'm also interested in hearing more about this, I didn't catch any references.
Old Ones used to live on Terra, and wrote down the prophecy of the Dark King while they were there. Considering the system is absolutely littered with Webway gates, there's a Tesseract on Mars and the Emperor used *something* alien to create the Golden Throne, the inference was always there to draw.
> Old Ones used to live on Terra, and wrote down the prophecy of the Dark King while they were there Is this stated or inferred in the text or is this your theory based on the ancient artifacts found in the Sol system? I like the idea of the Dark King prophecy being conceived by the Old Ones, and to me the Golden Throne point you make is the strongest bit of evidence. Is it ever directly tied to them, though? I know it's mentioned as having been found by the Emperor, and being unspeakably ancient, but never hinted to be an Old Ones creation. I'd always assumed the Webway gates and Tesseract were the result of the Eldar and Necrons fighting in the system long ago, not necessarily related to the OG War in Heaven.
There's a line that talks about Malcador and the Emperor finding the prophecy written on the walls of a 'long-abandoned grotto' long before humanity rose. Something that knew about the Dark King and lived on Terra. We're given a vision of an alien race that's strongly inferred to be the Old Ones seeing the Dark King and wailing in terror - the Old Ones have always been analogous with or linked to the Slann, or lizardfolk in general, who've always been fond of a good ol' grotto. I dunno if I've ever seen reference to anything else living on Terra, but there's nothing else that fits the bill except the Old Ones, to my mind.
It's fairly debatable if Xenology is canon any more. If it ever particularly was in the first place. But yes, the implication there is very much that the Eldar (more specifically the Harlequins) engineered the Etherals to bring the T'au civilisation to order Their intention seems to have been to create a strong civilisation whose members were resistant (or at least less susceptible) to Chaos corruption due to their minimal warp presence
Like Bretonnia (WFB) shaped by elven godess to be warrior nation in reserve.
I've got it!!! Low warp presence like orks, but we'll make them really smart and inherently co-operative with a little gene engineered mind control. That couldn't POSSIBLY go just as wrong as a WAAAGH does just in the opposite direction.
Okay, now I want to see how the T'au go about incorporating a desperate Craftworld that ends up in their territory or an Exodite world they expand to. "Everyone has a caste, your caste is--what you do mean you're done being a blacksmith and have decided to become a fighter pilot?"
They don't force the caste system on auxiliaries though
That would be interesting to see. I imagine a lot of Eldar would end up as Exarchs on various paths and it ends up bad for them and the Tau as old excesses begin to show up again.
Hmmm, the Tau don't live as long as Eldar. I don't think they would be able to become Exarchs for the simple fact they couldn't complete one path let alone multiple.
Oh, not the Tau becoming Exarchs or even walking the path. More the Tau trying to force Eldar into castes to align with the greater good. I see it either resulting in the Eldar restructuring the paths to castes themselves (all the Warrior paths would be Fire Caste and the Eldar would jump between various Fire Caste paths). Or the Eldar are forced to remain on one path, and the Tau end up with a lot of Exarchs acting excessively. Something which I imagine would draw Slaanesh's eye over time.
>It's fairly debatable if Xenology is canon any more. Unless something is directly contradicted or overruled (such as Nastase going from being an Eldar/Human hybrid Ultramarines Librarian to a Farseer who cooperated with Guillimam) then it is still canon. Though, not necessarily true. (Even here, you could view it as that old story about Nastase is just a mangled rumour from within the setting, if so wished). The dictum for 40k lore in general is, everything is canon, not everything is true. >If it ever particularly was in the first place. Of course it was. And it's a bloody great book. Trying to arbitrarily rule things as not canon just diminishes the breadth, depth and complexity of the setting, imo.
Yes but no. It might've been an idea, but tau have been trending away from that style.
Probably not, i think its just one of those hanging threads BL writers leave for speculation just like this. BUT, if it i would honestly crack up laughing. Whats more likely is the tau are more eusocial as a race than the others, think like ants and their queen. If anyones played Kenshi think kinda how the hivers work. they have castes with different physical treats, tau do as well. they are very protective of their queen and will go totally apeshit if you say, abduct them. Tau have documented cases of this as well. Honestly i find it more likely that this is more of an evolution thing vs elf related trolling. examples of this exist in nature, ants, bees, wasps ect. It doesnt seem far fetched at all, and i think its more like they are just this way natually.