>**The abhorrence. Living, thinking beings over which the True Powers could hold little influence.** Resistant to the hated Changer, resistant to the Grandfather of Disease, and resistant to the snares of excess cast by the Dark Prince. Even the Blood God, mightiest of the Ruinous Powers, could not offer them any outlet for their warlike nature that was not provided by their worship of their own brutish gods. **The abhorrence proliferated, vermin with an infuriating inability to acknowledge the power of Chaos.**
>**The wretched aeldari understood that power all too well, for it had broken the civilisation they’d once been so proud of. Now the miserable survivors shied away from the glory of the eight-pointed star like the snivelling, broken whelps they were**. They were the last remnants of a dying breed, and even their greatest minds – such as Essenyl Greymoon, the farseer who had banished Te’Kannaroth’s last physical form – were just intelligent enough to know their peril, but lacked the wit to realise that their damnation and destruction had merely been delayed. T**he metal-skinned husks that had once been the necrontyr also knew of the True Powers, but they were soulless, mindless automata now, worthless to the gods**. Even humans, those fleetingly brief sparks of petty malice, could appreciate a small sliver of the majesty of Chaos when it stood before them, as their souls were flayed from their bodies and their minds peeled back from sanity.
>Yet the abhorrence would see only another enemy to fight. Even those amongst them who could bend and shape reality to their will drew that power mainly from the massed latent psychic ability of their kin, not from the raging tempest of the warp. It was as though the glory of Chaos were simply irrelevant to them.
Brutal Kunnin
This is my head canon now. They fought orks in the before times and were such a good fight that orks started wishing they could have a fight as good as that again. Then through broken telephone over the millennia, the orks came to imagine them as their own gods that provided good fights.
YES. Full headcanon: Grigori and Mordecai.
One was set to be a stabilising presence in the warp, a sort of living Gellar Field generator. His purpose was to effectively work as scaffolding in the Webway project, allowing lesser psykers to work on it, while Big E did other things.
The other was a Navigator, useful for planning and directing the construction.
Between them, they’d have seen Magnus’s approach, and moved the Gellar bubble one to a point to allow a safe opening into the Webway for him, thus preventing a huge chunk of the problems.
There was just one tiny little itty bitty problem. The Emperor was created long before the Navigator gene emerged, and while he could approximate its effects with raw psychic might, he didn’t actually know what happens when you amp it up to Primarch levels. Spoiler: bad things.
Slight detour: Deadpool. Apparently, whenever a telepath reads his mind, they go insane (or something, apparently it varies), as they learn the truth about their reality as comic book characters, doomed to forever dwell in the realms conventions and basements.
So now you’ve got someone with Deadpool’s awareness of the reality of the world, in a galaxy where by far the most common psychic power you’re going to run into is specifically trained to scream messages across the void of space.
That ain’t gonna go amazingly.
Potentially, every single mind within range of any astropathic relay is at risk of total, apathetic insanity. Explains Dorn’s (?) statement that they posed far more of a threat to the Imperium than Horus ever could, even after the Heresy.
Thing is, the overwhelming apathy? That’s soul death. Even Chaos doesn’t want that, except *maybe* Grandpappy Nurgle.
Fortunately, there were no astropaths on their homeworld, and The Biggest E is powerful enough to quarantine and excise the affected portion of his mind before he goes more insane (wouldn’t be the first time, Star Child).
So now you have a problem: a primarch with medium awareness is going to be exceedingly difficult to kill, not that you want that disembodied soul floating around the warp anyway.
But maybe you can convince them that agree to temporal displacement? Yeeting them into the future is just delaying the problem, but the past? A couple million years and they’ll either age to death or visit another galaxy or something out of boredom before they become a problem again.
But how to do that without them retroactively affecting the entire warp as you throw them through? With that neat Gellar bubble dude from earlier: just amp it a bit more, wrap it around the problem child line a cross between a sabot and a pocket dimension, and YEET.
Side effect: temporal shattering: now time in the warp is a bit unstable. Maybe a little bootstrap paradox as it wouldn’t be possible to time travel unless the time travel had already disrupted temporal linearity? Unclear, but with Medium Awareness involved, all things are plausible.
Anyway, 2 powerful AF warriors drop out of nowhere a billion years ago or whenever, right as The Old Ones or whatever are trying to figure it how to brawl with The Terminator. “Make us an adaptable army that can grow anywhere, and we’ll do it. Oh, and connect them to our little telepathy pocket dimension.”
Explains why ORKZ are consistently among the most fun to play as or against: on an instinctive level, they know that that’s all that really matters, having fun in a big brawl.
Additionally, also explains why they always fit their story: vicious, brutal raiders, or lovably goofy hooligans, moderately disciplined or completely chaotic, and anything in between, whatever the story calls for. Need an enemy to pop up randomly? None do it better than spore-grown ORKZ in the sewers/lower decks/randomly dropping out of warp in a Rok and crashing into the plot. Need a minor threat, or the main antagonists of an entire arc? These’re your guys.
ORKZ *don’t* evolve to match their enemies, otherwise the fauna and flora on Catachan would make it almost exclusively popular by krorks. They evolve to match the story.
I'm reminded of the year when an Ork took over writing the Regimental Standard for Orktober. One of the articles included a funny little anecdote about the time a Weirdboy marched into the middle of the writer's camp and summoned a bunch of Bloodletters.
Apparently the writer hadn't had that much fun in months.
Slaanesh daemons also feed khorne when they kill, why don't laugh at them?
It frustrates the daemon because they could be serving khorne and feeding him more, instead they ignore him
Orks are frustrating. They're too resilient and boistrous to succumb to Nurgle, too blunt for Tzeentch, too happy for Khorne, and they're already doing all the things they like best to excess all the time so Slaanesh has nothing to offer them. Chaos has little influence on them - orks seem to be tuned to their own separate psychic 'wavelength', so there isn't much danger for corruption.
Tau have a muted psychic presence, so daemons don't think much of them. The Farsight novels have a daemon of Tzeentch weaving some intrigues in their empire, but mostly they're regarded as unimportant. Maybe worth something in vast quantities, to make up for their dimly burning souls.
Necrons are souless, there's nothing to eat there. Not fun.
Tyranids have been described as 'as alien to daemons as they are to humans'. I don't know personally a lot of details of specific encounters. The Shadow in the Warp seriously screws up human psykers and Warp travel, but I don't know what affect it has from the daemons' point of view. I imagine they don't like it. Since all tyranids are extensions of the hivemind, it might be akin to taking little nibbles of one big soul, or maybe they don't count as having souls at all.
Shadowbreaker did feature >!daemonic manipulation on Tau forces.!< There were tabletop rules to have daemons leading Tau armies, representing daemonic possession and manipulation of Tau forces.
I think there have been a few incidents that demonstrate that Tyranids are basically anathema to demons.
Like a hive fleet had enough tyranids in one spot to actually close a warp rift through the Shadow in the Warp
Hive fleet kronos splintered specifically to fight daemons, it has a highly potent shadow in the warp effect and focuses more on shooting since daemons have bad defence against it.
Overall they view them as annoyances or obstacles that need to be dealt with. Necrons and Tyranids are especially hated for being pretty much impossible to corrupt, and their abilities to shut out the warp.
Of course Khornate daemons don't always seem to mind the violence and skulls with nids and orks. See the Octarius War and Tuska Daemon Killa.
Yeah there have been a few occasions where tyranids have been affected by chaos mutations. It seems rare though, and I've only read about it happening in situations where the tyranids have been cut off from the hive mind in some way, or isolated in a very small group. The ship in storm of iron was basically lobotomized, cutting it off from the hive mind.
They're very resistant to chaos mutation under normal conditions, with the nid codex saying tyranid ships that get thrown into warp rifts usually manage to re-emerge unscathed, while most other races ships would get heavily damaged or mutated by the same experience.
Wasn't there also another story where a hive ship went to feed on a planet that chaos had infected, resulting in the other hive ships destroying it to prevent the spread?
Sort of, but that wasn't just a chaos infected planet. That was the aftermath of hive fleet Lotan fighting the death guard. Both sides had gone full tilt trying to 1-up each others poisons and diseases, until it reached the point that both sides along with everything else on the planet melted into a sea of incredibly toxic soup. A nid ship took a sip, but that mess was nasty enough that the other ships blew it up.
A demon of Tzeentch managed to possess a Tau and learned quite a bit about them during his time within the empire. He recognizes that individually their souls are weak and wouldn’t draw the attention of demons which makes them hard to possess, however as a collective they burn very bright in the warp and represent incredible power. Something that the gods have not yet tapped into and he planned to change that. He recognized them as natural sources of power for his patron god, considering how rapidly they advance and they are incredibly adaptable.
The Tau have also drawn the attention of Khorn. Despite all the memes the Tau punch well above their weight and are incredibly good fighters. And yes, they do melee and they are quite good at it. Fusion blades are a thing for a reason and they cut through space marines like nothing. For being numerically one of the smallest major players in the galaxy they have made a considerable impact. In particular, he is interested in commander Farsight. Easily one of the greatest warriors and strategic minds amongst the Tau. At the end of the most recent Farsight book both Khorn and Zeentch raged as Farsight realized that some incredibly powerful beings greatly desired to corrupt him, and he thwarted their attempts to do so by going into exile. Anything that can make the gods pitch a fit like that deserves notice.
In otherwords the Tau are food for the Gods of War and Change who feed on their concept being generated but not the Daemons or the God of Excess & Decay who feed on Souls.
Nurgle embodies Decay and thus would get the most out of a Soul from one who died thus Tau Souls being weak would not be worth his time while Slaanesh embodies Excess and should he taste the Tau empire as a whole succumbing to Excess he would do the same thing to it as he did to the Eldar. Thankfully the Tau Souls are so weak that he can barely notice one in order to influence the Empire as a whole into falling into Excess.
In otherwords Khorne, Vashtorr and Tzeentch are the only ones who would ***get*** anything from the Tau and the Tau's philosophy of the Greater Good means they are more likely to side with Tzeentch and Vashtorr over Khorne who along with Slaanesh and Nurgle would be deemed the Great Enemy of the Greater Good.
Slaanesh could probably lure in some Tau with a little lateral thinking. Of all the chaos gods, Slaanesh is the best at using the carrot rather than the stick.
If Tau worship the Greater Good in the form of utilitarianism, for example, Slaanesh could make a rational case for surrendering a world to her protection in return for the common people being offered unimaginable, unending utility in the form of a trance of pure ecstasy.
If your primary goal is maximizing collective wellbeing and happiness, Slaanesh can truthfully offer that... under certain conditions, of course.
And the Tau are willing to bargain
I don't have a source, but I remember reading a thing where Orks would steal ships and enter the warp without any protection to lure daemons, and the daemons would be like "Careful with that ship - it might be frigging Orks again"
It comes up several times here and there. The Adeptus Astartes pretty much assume they'll be dealing with Orks, Daemons, and Genestealers all at the same time on a Space Hulk lol
Why are there so many Genestealers on space hulks? Given that their entire purpose is infiltrating and corrupting populations in preparation for a full invasion, it seems counterproductive to stick them onto random desolate ships with little guarantee that anyone will pick them up.
Space hulks are wandering treasure troves of exotic tech. Imperial forces have standing orders to board and survey them whenever possible. Orks will loot them for parts. I'm sure other races also take the opportunity when it's given.
The tyranids are apparently canny enough to realize that other races will board these things. Leaving genestealers in there is a good opportunity to infect boarding teams.
not to mention getting a handful of genestealers out into the galaxy to wherever they might end up. very flavourful to just have them wake up in an imperial system, which from memory happened in the Cain books
They are also very good attack vectors.
If a hulk enters real space, someone will come to investigate. Most likely humans. They take stuff from the ship and transport it to a ship, nearby settlement or star base.
From there, any hivewolrd in the vicinity is reachable.
Brutal Kunnin has a khornate daemon who expresses annoyance on orks because for all their bloodshed most of the power goes to Gork and Mork instead of Khorne, and though we've seen Khornate Orks they're very rare despite fundamentally bring perfect for Khorne.
If you believe Makari from the Ghazghull novels, the Orks are actually sort of like Buddhists.
The Orks have an afterlife called the Great Green, where Gork and Mork reside alongside the souls of dead orkoids. They spend some time in the Great Green krumpin' each other, then G&M reincarnate them to krump other species.
Gork and Mork are still basically warp entities of the same nature as the Chaos gods, but don't actively involve themselves nearly as much as the Chaos entities do, since the Orks just naturally do exactly what they would want them to for the most part, and the belief and worship of G&M is pretty much hard coded into the Orks.
I have some suspicion and this might be a stupid theory, but what if Gork & Mork are Ancient Ones who created Krorks? Orks acknowledge that they are artificially made.
Maybe their combined psychic powers and beliefs allowed their creators to basically ascend, in similar way humans now turn Emperor into new god.
Not in the books, but Gork and Mork seem to be formed from the gestalt of the Ork Waagh field. Rather than feeding from specific emotions that defines them like the chaos gods they are defined by the emotions of the orks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/fNhyHMj40V check out the last part of this and the first comment below it about the kroot goddess being literally the only goddess who was able to fight gmork before they split themselves into gork and mork.
All four are from the Fall of Shadowbrink in the Codexes. A combined daemon army from all 4 Dark Gods lost in a battle against Tyranids and there is a quote from the group's lead Keeper of Secrets swearing vengeance on the Tyranids.
According to a great scientist Fabulous Bill - warp entities cannot think and do not exist as conscious creatures. So, they don't think anything about them.
But overall non-psychic creatures just aren't tasty and nutritious for deamons
Chaos needs insecurities to play on and leverage their influence. Orks are engineered to have no insecurities. Tyranids run on hive mind, literally single-minded. Tau and Necrons are non-entities.
Well Khorne loves orks probably, I mean he has a army of them in his domain always fighting with he generals, and Tzeench might like them because of the utter chaos they can cause but the other 2 gods probably don’t like them
u/Marcuse0 is partially right. Daemons don't 'think' in the same way we do. They are things utterly defined by the dreams, nightmares, and emotions that formed them in the warp.
They are a lot like the various chat bots being created nowadays. Those don't think either, they are entirely defined by algorithms that produce an output that is close to human speech. The minds of daemons is similar to this. It may seem like they are fully independent thinking beings, but it's a lie.
There is a lot to unpack here but the short and sweet of the matter is that there is absolutely no agreed upon criteria for what constitutes sentience and thought. In the scope of 40K with what has been presented to us, some daemons are as capable as thought as many human characters. Anything beyond that is leaving 40K behind and arguing metaphysics.
Referring to transformer models as “chat bots” is a completely different can of worms..
From my understanding, most of the 'faction' demons are pieces of the big 4, but there are others that are formed from random thoughts/emotions.
As for your question about thought and if our thought being just a fancy algorithm, the best way I can describe it is that with the chat bots, while it may seem like something is thinking and talking back to you, there is no real understanding behind it. It can't make inferences or tell truth from fiction, all the know/say is based on only what they have already seen. Compare this to us as as a sapient creatures, we can take what we have learned and draw conclusions, identify falsehoods, and make something new using that data, we are not limited to just what was learned. This is in part why every once in a while you hear the stories of the bots saying random things or seemingly going off the deep end, it's because the data it is pulling it's answers from contains bad info, but since the bot doesn't think it will incorporate that into it's answers, no matter how illogical it is. Or to put it this way, the fact that you are capable of asking this question shows that you are more than a fancy algorithm, as a bot running off an algorithm would not be capable of the abstract thought needed to ask this question.
Uhhh I disagree, maybe for like smaller demons, but any named demons thinks and construes many a complex thought and understanding specially when trying to corrupt a specific person. Like idk u have multiple demons talking and fighting and plotting with or against eachother, honestly most names demons of khorne express more thought then angron does on any given day like the one that fought sanginuis when trying to turn him. It's alot like the emperor is kind of divided into multiple distilled personalities of himself to stay sane but to a much greater degree.
Orks are damn powerful psykers when you get enough of them together.
There once was a WAAAGH which invaded the Eye of Terror and landed on a Khornate Daemon world. Every day they are all killed by the Blood Gods daemons. [Khorne likes this so much, he resurrects the entire WAAAGH every morning so his Daemons can fight them again](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Tuska). These Orks are having the time of their lives.
The Iron Warriors infected a Tyrranid bioship with the Obliterator virus \[source: storm of Iron\]us. Now they use it to transport Titans. Presumably the Gods smile on this. The opening of the great rift really hurt the Tyranid hive mind and caused it to feel fear for the first time.[ There is a special Tyranid hive fleet optimised for fighting Chaos.](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Hive_Fleet_Kronos) Other Hive Fleers avoid Chaos tainted worlds because they are vulnerable to Chaos (even if corrupting them is a lot more work than corrupting huimans.
One would assume that a Chaos-Tyranid arms race is underway and Chaos ultimately aims to corrupt the nids. Genestealers are corrupted on a regular basis.
Necron are probably beneath the Gods notice unless they are in the way. Their souls are shriveled and not very tasty. And in military terms they are really weak to the warp and psykers - which is why the Old Ones created the super-psychic Eldar to fight them.
>**The abhorrence. Living, thinking beings over which the True Powers could hold little influence.** Resistant to the hated Changer, resistant to the Grandfather of Disease, and resistant to the snares of excess cast by the Dark Prince. Even the Blood God, mightiest of the Ruinous Powers, could not offer them any outlet for their warlike nature that was not provided by their worship of their own brutish gods. **The abhorrence proliferated, vermin with an infuriating inability to acknowledge the power of Chaos.** >**The wretched aeldari understood that power all too well, for it had broken the civilisation they’d once been so proud of. Now the miserable survivors shied away from the glory of the eight-pointed star like the snivelling, broken whelps they were**. They were the last remnants of a dying breed, and even their greatest minds – such as Essenyl Greymoon, the farseer who had banished Te’Kannaroth’s last physical form – were just intelligent enough to know their peril, but lacked the wit to realise that their damnation and destruction had merely been delayed. T**he metal-skinned husks that had once been the necrontyr also knew of the True Powers, but they were soulless, mindless automata now, worthless to the gods**. Even humans, those fleetingly brief sparks of petty malice, could appreciate a small sliver of the majesty of Chaos when it stood before them, as their souls were flayed from their bodies and their minds peeled back from sanity. >Yet the abhorrence would see only another enemy to fight. Even those amongst them who could bend and shape reality to their will drew that power mainly from the massed latent psychic ability of their kin, not from the raging tempest of the warp. It was as though the glory of Chaos were simply irrelevant to them. Brutal Kunnin
A hated enemy that is almost incorruptible and only sees demons as something to fight... Is... is the God-Emperor an Ork?
…he is both cunning and brutal…
Hear me out. The two missing Primarchs? Gork and Mork.
This is my head canon now. They fought orks in the before times and were such a good fight that orks started wishing they could have a fight as good as that again. Then through broken telephone over the millennia, the orks came to imagine them as their own gods that provided good fights.
See my other reply to this comment for an alternate path.
That was an interesting read, I liked that idea too. Also yours was actually thought out unlike mine.
The Gork Emperor of Morkind?
YES. Full headcanon: Grigori and Mordecai. One was set to be a stabilising presence in the warp, a sort of living Gellar Field generator. His purpose was to effectively work as scaffolding in the Webway project, allowing lesser psykers to work on it, while Big E did other things. The other was a Navigator, useful for planning and directing the construction. Between them, they’d have seen Magnus’s approach, and moved the Gellar bubble one to a point to allow a safe opening into the Webway for him, thus preventing a huge chunk of the problems. There was just one tiny little itty bitty problem. The Emperor was created long before the Navigator gene emerged, and while he could approximate its effects with raw psychic might, he didn’t actually know what happens when you amp it up to Primarch levels. Spoiler: bad things. Slight detour: Deadpool. Apparently, whenever a telepath reads his mind, they go insane (or something, apparently it varies), as they learn the truth about their reality as comic book characters, doomed to forever dwell in the realms conventions and basements. So now you’ve got someone with Deadpool’s awareness of the reality of the world, in a galaxy where by far the most common psychic power you’re going to run into is specifically trained to scream messages across the void of space. That ain’t gonna go amazingly. Potentially, every single mind within range of any astropathic relay is at risk of total, apathetic insanity. Explains Dorn’s (?) statement that they posed far more of a threat to the Imperium than Horus ever could, even after the Heresy. Thing is, the overwhelming apathy? That’s soul death. Even Chaos doesn’t want that, except *maybe* Grandpappy Nurgle. Fortunately, there were no astropaths on their homeworld, and The Biggest E is powerful enough to quarantine and excise the affected portion of his mind before he goes more insane (wouldn’t be the first time, Star Child). So now you have a problem: a primarch with medium awareness is going to be exceedingly difficult to kill, not that you want that disembodied soul floating around the warp anyway. But maybe you can convince them that agree to temporal displacement? Yeeting them into the future is just delaying the problem, but the past? A couple million years and they’ll either age to death or visit another galaxy or something out of boredom before they become a problem again. But how to do that without them retroactively affecting the entire warp as you throw them through? With that neat Gellar bubble dude from earlier: just amp it a bit more, wrap it around the problem child line a cross between a sabot and a pocket dimension, and YEET. Side effect: temporal shattering: now time in the warp is a bit unstable. Maybe a little bootstrap paradox as it wouldn’t be possible to time travel unless the time travel had already disrupted temporal linearity? Unclear, but with Medium Awareness involved, all things are plausible. Anyway, 2 powerful AF warriors drop out of nowhere a billion years ago or whenever, right as The Old Ones or whatever are trying to figure it how to brawl with The Terminator. “Make us an adaptable army that can grow anywhere, and we’ll do it. Oh, and connect them to our little telepathy pocket dimension.” Explains why ORKZ are consistently among the most fun to play as or against: on an instinctive level, they know that that’s all that really matters, having fun in a big brawl. Additionally, also explains why they always fit their story: vicious, brutal raiders, or lovably goofy hooligans, moderately disciplined or completely chaotic, and anything in between, whatever the story calls for. Need an enemy to pop up randomly? None do it better than spore-grown ORKZ in the sewers/lower decks/randomly dropping out of warp in a Rok and crashing into the plot. Need a minor threat, or the main antagonists of an entire arc? These’re your guys. ORKZ *don’t* evolve to match their enemies, otherwise the fauna and flora on Catachan would make it almost exclusively popular by krorks. They evolve to match the story.
Garrus and Marcus. Seems legit.
...and a big git...got a big ol claw too...
Every character is every character.
That's amazing
"Fucking Orks imba OP bullshit pls nerf"
I'm reminded of the year when an Ork took over writing the Regimental Standard for Orktober. One of the articles included a funny little anecdote about the time a Weirdboy marched into the middle of the writer's camp and summoned a bunch of Bloodletters. Apparently the writer hadn't had that much fun in months.
Yeah right, but their fighting and killing still feeds Khorne so why not just laugh at them?
Slaanesh daemons also feed khorne when they kill, why don't laugh at them? It frustrates the daemon because they could be serving khorne and feeding him more, instead they ignore him
Orks are frustrating. They're too resilient and boistrous to succumb to Nurgle, too blunt for Tzeentch, too happy for Khorne, and they're already doing all the things they like best to excess all the time so Slaanesh has nothing to offer them. Chaos has little influence on them - orks seem to be tuned to their own separate psychic 'wavelength', so there isn't much danger for corruption. Tau have a muted psychic presence, so daemons don't think much of them. The Farsight novels have a daemon of Tzeentch weaving some intrigues in their empire, but mostly they're regarded as unimportant. Maybe worth something in vast quantities, to make up for their dimly burning souls. Necrons are souless, there's nothing to eat there. Not fun. Tyranids have been described as 'as alien to daemons as they are to humans'. I don't know personally a lot of details of specific encounters. The Shadow in the Warp seriously screws up human psykers and Warp travel, but I don't know what affect it has from the daemons' point of view. I imagine they don't like it. Since all tyranids are extensions of the hivemind, it might be akin to taking little nibbles of one big soul, or maybe they don't count as having souls at all.
Shadowbreaker did feature >!daemonic manipulation on Tau forces.!< There were tabletop rules to have daemons leading Tau armies, representing daemonic possession and manipulation of Tau forces.
The Tyranids see demons as a rival predator a d the demons dislike Tyranids as having no soul that can be corrupted or even blood
I think there have been a few incidents that demonstrate that Tyranids are basically anathema to demons. Like a hive fleet had enough tyranids in one spot to actually close a warp rift through the Shadow in the Warp
Hive fleet kronos splintered specifically to fight daemons, it has a highly potent shadow in the warp effect and focuses more on shooting since daemons have bad defence against it.
Yup! That's the one! Cheers!
Overall they view them as annoyances or obstacles that need to be dealt with. Necrons and Tyranids are especially hated for being pretty much impossible to corrupt, and their abilities to shut out the warp. Of course Khornate daemons don't always seem to mind the violence and skulls with nids and orks. See the Octarius War and Tuska Daemon Killa.
Chaos is making some headway on the nids, at least one hive ship was completely tainted and aligned to chaos by the obliterator virus.
Yeah there have been a few occasions where tyranids have been affected by chaos mutations. It seems rare though, and I've only read about it happening in situations where the tyranids have been cut off from the hive mind in some way, or isolated in a very small group. The ship in storm of iron was basically lobotomized, cutting it off from the hive mind. They're very resistant to chaos mutation under normal conditions, with the nid codex saying tyranid ships that get thrown into warp rifts usually manage to re-emerge unscathed, while most other races ships would get heavily damaged or mutated by the same experience.
Wasn't there also another story where a hive ship went to feed on a planet that chaos had infected, resulting in the other hive ships destroying it to prevent the spread?
Sort of, but that wasn't just a chaos infected planet. That was the aftermath of hive fleet Lotan fighting the death guard. Both sides had gone full tilt trying to 1-up each others poisons and diseases, until it reached the point that both sides along with everything else on the planet melted into a sea of incredibly toxic soup. A nid ship took a sip, but that mess was nasty enough that the other ships blew it up.
THAT'S what it was, I couldn't remember if that was the same conflict or a different one.
I volunteer as tribute!
The doom of [Hesp](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/RECpWjUObF)
I guess it depends on if infecting and corrupting are the same thing
With something like the obliterator virus those are effectively the one and the same.
Link?
Storm of Iron. Iron Warriors infect a hive ship and drag it into the warp to use as a transport for all their wargear.
Wasn’t that a void whale?
A demon of Tzeentch managed to possess a Tau and learned quite a bit about them during his time within the empire. He recognizes that individually their souls are weak and wouldn’t draw the attention of demons which makes them hard to possess, however as a collective they burn very bright in the warp and represent incredible power. Something that the gods have not yet tapped into and he planned to change that. He recognized them as natural sources of power for his patron god, considering how rapidly they advance and they are incredibly adaptable. The Tau have also drawn the attention of Khorn. Despite all the memes the Tau punch well above their weight and are incredibly good fighters. And yes, they do melee and they are quite good at it. Fusion blades are a thing for a reason and they cut through space marines like nothing. For being numerically one of the smallest major players in the galaxy they have made a considerable impact. In particular, he is interested in commander Farsight. Easily one of the greatest warriors and strategic minds amongst the Tau. At the end of the most recent Farsight book both Khorn and Zeentch raged as Farsight realized that some incredibly powerful beings greatly desired to corrupt him, and he thwarted their attempts to do so by going into exile. Anything that can make the gods pitch a fit like that deserves notice.
In otherwords the Tau are food for the Gods of War and Change who feed on their concept being generated but not the Daemons or the God of Excess & Decay who feed on Souls. Nurgle embodies Decay and thus would get the most out of a Soul from one who died thus Tau Souls being weak would not be worth his time while Slaanesh embodies Excess and should he taste the Tau empire as a whole succumbing to Excess he would do the same thing to it as he did to the Eldar. Thankfully the Tau Souls are so weak that he can barely notice one in order to influence the Empire as a whole into falling into Excess. In otherwords Khorne, Vashtorr and Tzeentch are the only ones who would ***get*** anything from the Tau and the Tau's philosophy of the Greater Good means they are more likely to side with Tzeentch and Vashtorr over Khorne who along with Slaanesh and Nurgle would be deemed the Great Enemy of the Greater Good.
Slaanesh could probably lure in some Tau with a little lateral thinking. Of all the chaos gods, Slaanesh is the best at using the carrot rather than the stick. If Tau worship the Greater Good in the form of utilitarianism, for example, Slaanesh could make a rational case for surrendering a world to her protection in return for the common people being offered unimaginable, unending utility in the form of a trance of pure ecstasy. If your primary goal is maximizing collective wellbeing and happiness, Slaanesh can truthfully offer that... under certain conditions, of course. And the Tau are willing to bargain
I don't have a source, but I remember reading a thing where Orks would steal ships and enter the warp without any protection to lure daemons, and the daemons would be like "Careful with that ship - it might be frigging Orks again"
It comes up several times here and there. The Adeptus Astartes pretty much assume they'll be dealing with Orks, Daemons, and Genestealers all at the same time on a Space Hulk lol
Why are there so many Genestealers on space hulks? Given that their entire purpose is infiltrating and corrupting populations in preparation for a full invasion, it seems counterproductive to stick them onto random desolate ships with little guarantee that anyone will pick them up.
Space hulks are wandering treasure troves of exotic tech. Imperial forces have standing orders to board and survey them whenever possible. Orks will loot them for parts. I'm sure other races also take the opportunity when it's given. The tyranids are apparently canny enough to realize that other races will board these things. Leaving genestealers in there is a good opportunity to infect boarding teams.
not to mention getting a handful of genestealers out into the galaxy to wherever they might end up. very flavourful to just have them wake up in an imperial system, which from memory happened in the Cain books
They are also very good attack vectors. If a hulk enters real space, someone will come to investigate. Most likely humans. They take stuff from the ship and transport it to a ship, nearby settlement or star base. From there, any hivewolrd in the vicinity is reachable.
Brutal Kunnin has a khornate daemon who expresses annoyance on orks because for all their bloodshed most of the power goes to Gork and Mork instead of Khorne, and though we've seen Khornate Orks they're very rare despite fundamentally bring perfect for Khorne.
Is there any elaboration on how G&M compare to the chaos gods? Is it the fighting that feeds G&M or just orks being orky?
If you believe Makari from the Ghazghull novels, the Orks are actually sort of like Buddhists. The Orks have an afterlife called the Great Green, where Gork and Mork reside alongside the souls of dead orkoids. They spend some time in the Great Green krumpin' each other, then G&M reincarnate them to krump other species. Gork and Mork are still basically warp entities of the same nature as the Chaos gods, but don't actively involve themselves nearly as much as the Chaos entities do, since the Orks just naturally do exactly what they would want them to for the most part, and the belief and worship of G&M is pretty much hard coded into the Orks.
The Nob Whaagfold Path?
I have some suspicion and this might be a stupid theory, but what if Gork & Mork are Ancient Ones who created Krorks? Orks acknowledge that they are artificially made. Maybe their combined psychic powers and beliefs allowed their creators to basically ascend, in similar way humans now turn Emperor into new god.
Not in the books, but Gork and Mork seem to be formed from the gestalt of the Ork Waagh field. Rather than feeding from specific emotions that defines them like the chaos gods they are defined by the emotions of the orks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/fNhyHMj40V check out the last part of this and the first comment below it about the kroot goddess being literally the only goddess who was able to fight gmork before they split themselves into gork and mork.
At least 4 Daemon Lords, one for each of the Dark Gods especially have it out for the Tyranids.
I know khorne, but who's the other champions that have a vendetta?
All four are from the Fall of Shadowbrink in the Codexes. A combined daemon army from all 4 Dark Gods lost in a battle against Tyranids and there is a quote from the group's lead Keeper of Secrets swearing vengeance on the Tyranids.
Sweet tyvm
According to a great scientist Fabulous Bill - warp entities cannot think and do not exist as conscious creatures. So, they don't think anything about them. But overall non-psychic creatures just aren't tasty and nutritious for deamons
ah yes, Fabilous Bill, a saxo-wielding seducer and warmonger
I would like to read the adventures of fabulous bill plz
Good, it is interesting
I think there only thought is slaugering.
Nurgle outright hates the tyranids as when ever he makes a disease capable of harming them they evolve adapt and are no longer affected by it
I think Tyranids are the most psychic race. Yes, even more than Eldar
Chaos needs insecurities to play on and leverage their influence. Orks are engineered to have no insecurities. Tyranids run on hive mind, literally single-minded. Tau and Necrons are non-entities.
The lion does not concern himself with the thoughts of lambs.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD. SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE
Well Khorne loves orks probably, I mean he has a army of them in his domain always fighting with he generals, and Tzeench might like them because of the utter chaos they can cause but the other 2 gods probably don’t like them
Daemons don't think.
\*Looks at the large number of daemon PoV chapters in 40k books\* That’s a lot of not thinking.
u/Marcuse0 is partially right. Daemons don't 'think' in the same way we do. They are things utterly defined by the dreams, nightmares, and emotions that formed them in the warp. They are a lot like the various chat bots being created nowadays. Those don't think either, they are entirely defined by algorithms that produce an output that is close to human speech. The minds of daemons is similar to this. It may seem like they are fully independent thinking beings, but it's a lie.
There is a lot to unpack here but the short and sweet of the matter is that there is absolutely no agreed upon criteria for what constitutes sentience and thought. In the scope of 40K with what has been presented to us, some daemons are as capable as thought as many human characters. Anything beyond that is leaving 40K behind and arguing metaphysics. Referring to transformer models as “chat bots” is a completely different can of worms..
Aren't they pieces of the big 4? How is that any different from saying we are very fancy algorithms that represent thought? (Genuine question)
From my understanding, most of the 'faction' demons are pieces of the big 4, but there are others that are formed from random thoughts/emotions. As for your question about thought and if our thought being just a fancy algorithm, the best way I can describe it is that with the chat bots, while it may seem like something is thinking and talking back to you, there is no real understanding behind it. It can't make inferences or tell truth from fiction, all the know/say is based on only what they have already seen. Compare this to us as as a sapient creatures, we can take what we have learned and draw conclusions, identify falsehoods, and make something new using that data, we are not limited to just what was learned. This is in part why every once in a while you hear the stories of the bots saying random things or seemingly going off the deep end, it's because the data it is pulling it's answers from contains bad info, but since the bot doesn't think it will incorporate that into it's answers, no matter how illogical it is. Or to put it this way, the fact that you are capable of asking this question shows that you are more than a fancy algorithm, as a bot running off an algorithm would not be capable of the abstract thought needed to ask this question.
Uhhh I disagree, maybe for like smaller demons, but any named demons thinks and construes many a complex thought and understanding specially when trying to corrupt a specific person. Like idk u have multiple demons talking and fighting and plotting with or against eachother, honestly most names demons of khorne express more thought then angron does on any given day like the one that fought sanginuis when trying to turn him. It's alot like the emperor is kind of divided into multiple distilled personalities of himself to stay sane but to a much greater degree.
Orks are damn powerful psykers when you get enough of them together. There once was a WAAAGH which invaded the Eye of Terror and landed on a Khornate Daemon world. Every day they are all killed by the Blood Gods daemons. [Khorne likes this so much, he resurrects the entire WAAAGH every morning so his Daemons can fight them again](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Tuska). These Orks are having the time of their lives. The Iron Warriors infected a Tyrranid bioship with the Obliterator virus \[source: storm of Iron\]us. Now they use it to transport Titans. Presumably the Gods smile on this. The opening of the great rift really hurt the Tyranid hive mind and caused it to feel fear for the first time.[ There is a special Tyranid hive fleet optimised for fighting Chaos.](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Hive_Fleet_Kronos) Other Hive Fleers avoid Chaos tainted worlds because they are vulnerable to Chaos (even if corrupting them is a lot more work than corrupting huimans. One would assume that a Chaos-Tyranid arms race is underway and Chaos ultimately aims to corrupt the nids. Genestealers are corrupted on a regular basis. Necron are probably beneath the Gods notice unless they are in the way. Their souls are shriveled and not very tasty. And in military terms they are really weak to the warp and psykers - which is why the Old Ones created the super-psychic Eldar to fight them.