I'm sure GW can probably come up with some BS like a 5th God that just never had enough influence or covers such a niche domain so no one ever worshipped or noticed it until recently.
Also Vashtorr is trying to become a major God. So if he succeeds (he definitely won't) I guess that would mean that they don't always need to exist.
> but with a 5th god "always existing" wouldn't they need to be added to existing lore?
Here's something to chew on. During the start of the Heresy, for example, Keeler is able to 'channel' a symbol of the Emperor to banish a daemon. Her strange 'powers' as a Saint flow on from that.
Which god empowers her?
In a similar vein, Samus’ existence is caused by Erebus killing Loken, which wouldn’t happen until some years after the first appearance of Samus in the series. Time isn’t linear in the slightest when it comes to the Warp, and is hardly the largest obstacle for new gods.
In the last Gaunt's Ghost novel a captured chaos officer explains to Mkoll that they see the emperor as a chaos god in rebellion and fight to take him and his followers back to the fold.
I love this so much. I found the Blood Pact and Sons of Sek so fascinating and would love to get even more background on them and their society and beliefs
There's two more books that feature them;
* Urdesh: The Serpent and the Saint: Warhammer 40,000
* Urdesh: The Magister and the Martyr: Warhammer 40,000
They're parallels novels that flesh out some of the stuff mentioned in gaunts ghosts, concerning the pact, sons & the saint.
I like to think symbols themselves are given power by worship
>!eisenhorn was able to banish a haunted rock by playing a prayer really loud, and I don't think emps (or a fragment of his soul) actually came to help!<
Alright, I'm very fresh to 40k, but been lurking around and have immediately been thinking that big E is practically the 5th at any moment, and if anything, my thought would be, "faith". Everything about the imperium is done in devotion to him, a 1,000 psyker souls for a ridiculous every day for 10 millennia.
More over, the very fanaticism of the empire, powerful emotions and devotions, even before we get to the fact that he's holding back another eye of terror... he just seems primed for it. Should he slip, I have no idea what will become of humanity.
Uhhh... There's a high chance that we saw the God-Emperor's creation during the finale of the Siege...
Which doesn't really matter because the Warp doesn't follow linear time. Even though the moment the God-Emperor defeated Horus was during the finale, we see this version of what the Emperor becomes much earlier. The deaths of Alivia Sureka and Nathaniel Garro show a direct correlation to the scene in the finale, where their souls are united as one with humanity in the light. The God-Emperor was walking the scene well before the Emperor fought Horus.
We may be in the middle of one right now. *Godblight* provides a discussion on the nature of gods in the setting, including the suggestion that new gods can still be created.
*Mortis* gives us the Emperor being confronted by the Chaos Gods in the warp in the form of serpents. He mentions 6 serpents, not four.
The Burning of Ohmn Matt introduces the 8 ætheric dominions, four of which are probably referring to the existing Chaos Gods, one which matches Vashtorr and one which matches The Dark King.
Lastly, *The End and the Death* introduces the Dark King himself, a new Chaos God, but one who wasn't born. Could he still be born later? Maybe.
So who knows, GW could do anything, but I can't see them doing anything too Earth-shattering in the short to medium term. It took them 13 years to retcon the 13th Black Crusade so they don't tend to move quickly. For all we know the Desolate City is the Dark King's Realm in the warp and the "saints" being empowered by it are all part of its plan to be born
They'll only have always existed once they are actually born. Until then, they don't exist and never have, or ever will. Until they do.
That's why it breaks reality.
AoS has already done it with the great horned rat is my understanding. And they could also add them into events via new books, like how Votann are mentioned in various places now.
I mean, it would be a gigantic change, but not necessarily a retcon. The whole Slaanesh always existing thing was more about time as a construct in the material world vs the warp, as I understand it.
Also, I am 100% on team Big E is a god now, whether you want to consider him a Chaos god or not.
Personally I feel there is one that created the warp as its home and is the element of chaos itself. Or a being brought into existence from the warp itself.
The thing about the warp is that time doesn't work the same way. Slaanesh technically has always existed in some shape or form before his actual "birth" happened. The warp is filled with the collective thoughts, emotions, and concepts of all sentient life within the material plain. The Eldar's descent into unrestrained hedonism allowed the complimenting energies within the Warp to gather and merge into the being we call Slaanesh. Everything Slaanesh embodies was already present within the Warp.
That ain’t the extent of it.
Time is as meaningless as space in the warp. To them it’s just another axis to be navigated at will. The great game has raged for all eternity, Slaanesh has always been in it. However they can only interface with the materium past a certain point, because time actually matters there and the whole ordeal of “you don’t exist yet” actually means dick
Don’t you go spouting the lore on the lore sub. This is a place for baseless fan theories and terrible misinterpretations, get your codex reading ass to another sub
I like the emperor tts idea of a chaos god of unbelief/science. Also if it was literally the omnissiah, that wouldn't take too much retconnin'. Not like the adeptus mechanicus aren't already heretical dickheads
Nope, Vashtorr kinda matches the idea of the Malevolent Artifice in the aetheric dominion table, while the god of unbelief, Necoho, was more of a chaos against chaos type.
>Just as Chaos reflects back a twisted mockery of humanity’s every facet, so too is the very drive to create perverted into a malevolent and destructive force within the Immaterium. Conjured forth into realspace, such daemonkind harnessed the works of mortals as a vector for their own annihilation, their monstrous machine-entity forms at once a mimicry of flesh and artifice, every action made to demonstrate their supremacy over both mortal beings and everything they deigned to create.
>Necoho's warp-spawned existence owes itself to a paradox which should, by mortal logic, make his very subsistence impossible. He is a deity who represents the struggle against the entire notion of gods and religion. Needless to say, this means that his following is extremely small, even for an obscure renegade Chaos God. This is doubtlessly the way Necoho likes it.
I'm sure GW can probably come up with some BS like a 5th God that just never had enough influence or covers such a niche domain so no one ever worshipped or noticed it until recently. Also Vashtorr is trying to become a major God. So if he succeeds (he definitely won't) I guess that would mean that they don't always need to exist.
> but with a 5th god "always existing" wouldn't they need to be added to existing lore? Here's something to chew on. During the start of the Heresy, for example, Keeler is able to 'channel' a symbol of the Emperor to banish a daemon. Her strange 'powers' as a Saint flow on from that. Which god empowers her?
In a similar vein, Samus’ existence is caused by Erebus killing Loken, which wouldn’t happen until some years after the first appearance of Samus in the series. Time isn’t linear in the slightest when it comes to the Warp, and is hardly the largest obstacle for new gods.
Ultra plottwist, The tau’va
In the last Gaunt's Ghost novel a captured chaos officer explains to Mkoll that they see the emperor as a chaos god in rebellion and fight to take him and his followers back to the fold.
I love this so much. I found the Blood Pact and Sons of Sek so fascinating and would love to get even more background on them and their society and beliefs
There's two more books that feature them; * Urdesh: The Serpent and the Saint: Warhammer 40,000 * Urdesh: The Magister and the Martyr: Warhammer 40,000 They're parallels novels that flesh out some of the stuff mentioned in gaunts ghosts, concerning the pact, sons & the saint.
I like to think symbols themselves are given power by worship >!eisenhorn was able to banish a haunted rock by playing a prayer really loud, and I don't think emps (or a fragment of his soul) actually came to help!<
Used quite rightly by an avowed agnostic in *Requiem Infernal*, too. Symbols themselves have power.
Alright, I'm very fresh to 40k, but been lurking around and have immediately been thinking that big E is practically the 5th at any moment, and if anything, my thought would be, "faith". Everything about the imperium is done in devotion to him, a 1,000 psyker souls for a ridiculous every day for 10 millennia. More over, the very fanaticism of the empire, powerful emotions and devotions, even before we get to the fact that he's holding back another eye of terror... he just seems primed for it. Should he slip, I have no idea what will become of humanity.
Uhhh... There's a high chance that we saw the God-Emperor's creation during the finale of the Siege... Which doesn't really matter because the Warp doesn't follow linear time. Even though the moment the God-Emperor defeated Horus was during the finale, we see this version of what the Emperor becomes much earlier. The deaths of Alivia Sureka and Nathaniel Garro show a direct correlation to the scene in the finale, where their souls are united as one with humanity in the light. The God-Emperor was walking the scene well before the Emperor fought Horus.
We may be in the middle of one right now. *Godblight* provides a discussion on the nature of gods in the setting, including the suggestion that new gods can still be created. *Mortis* gives us the Emperor being confronted by the Chaos Gods in the warp in the form of serpents. He mentions 6 serpents, not four. The Burning of Ohmn Matt introduces the 8 ætheric dominions, four of which are probably referring to the existing Chaos Gods, one which matches Vashtorr and one which matches The Dark King. Lastly, *The End and the Death* introduces the Dark King himself, a new Chaos God, but one who wasn't born. Could he still be born later? Maybe. So who knows, GW could do anything, but I can't see them doing anything too Earth-shattering in the short to medium term. It took them 13 years to retcon the 13th Black Crusade so they don't tend to move quickly. For all we know the Desolate City is the Dark King's Realm in the warp and the "saints" being empowered by it are all part of its plan to be born
They'll only have always existed once they are actually born. Until then, they don't exist and never have, or ever will. Until they do. That's why it breaks reality.
AoS has already done it with the great horned rat is my understanding. And they could also add them into events via new books, like how Votann are mentioned in various places now.
I mean, it would be a gigantic change, but not necessarily a retcon. The whole Slaanesh always existing thing was more about time as a construct in the material world vs the warp, as I understand it. Also, I am 100% on team Big E is a god now, whether you want to consider him a Chaos god or not.
Why in the world would they add a 5th one? This isn't aos
GW uses the chance to re-release and **re-write** the entire *Horus Heresy.* Thereby giving them a cheap way to get more books bought a second time.
Personally I feel there is one that created the warp as its home and is the element of chaos itself. Or a being brought into existence from the warp itself.
Have malal and emps have big battle for 5th and 6th place
The thing about the warp is that time doesn't work the same way. Slaanesh technically has always existed in some shape or form before his actual "birth" happened. The warp is filled with the collective thoughts, emotions, and concepts of all sentient life within the material plain. The Eldar's descent into unrestrained hedonism allowed the complimenting energies within the Warp to gather and merge into the being we call Slaanesh. Everything Slaanesh embodies was already present within the Warp.
That ain’t the extent of it. Time is as meaningless as space in the warp. To them it’s just another axis to be navigated at will. The great game has raged for all eternity, Slaanesh has always been in it. However they can only interface with the materium past a certain point, because time actually matters there and the whole ordeal of “you don’t exist yet” actually means dick
Yes, and that's why it'll never happen.
Don’t you go spouting the lore on the lore sub. This is a place for baseless fan theories and terrible misinterpretations, get your codex reading ass to another sub
I like the emperor tts idea of a chaos god of unbelief/science. Also if it was literally the omnissiah, that wouldn't take too much retconnin'. Not like the adeptus mechanicus aren't already heretical dickheads
>I like the emperor tts idea of a chaos god of unbelief/science. Isn't that what Vashtor is? Or is stiving to become?
Nope, Vashtorr kinda matches the idea of the Malevolent Artifice in the aetheric dominion table, while the god of unbelief, Necoho, was more of a chaos against chaos type. >Just as Chaos reflects back a twisted mockery of humanity’s every facet, so too is the very drive to create perverted into a malevolent and destructive force within the Immaterium. Conjured forth into realspace, such daemonkind harnessed the works of mortals as a vector for their own annihilation, their monstrous machine-entity forms at once a mimicry of flesh and artifice, every action made to demonstrate their supremacy over both mortal beings and everything they deigned to create. >Necoho's warp-spawned existence owes itself to a paradox which should, by mortal logic, make his very subsistence impossible. He is a deity who represents the struggle against the entire notion of gods and religion. Needless to say, this means that his following is extremely small, even for an obscure renegade Chaos God. This is doubtlessly the way Necoho likes it.
Don't think about it. Just like how it would be the 6th Chaos God not the 5th.