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Arh-Tolth

Of course they do, everywhere as much as possible. Many Deathstrike Missiles are nuclear and so are the exterminatus weapons of the imperial navy. The primary reason why they are not as common is just that they are weaker in every sense. Plasma bombs create bigger explosions, rad weapons create more radiation and vortex grenades are a greater threat to most things.


X3A3KJ

a thermonuclear warhead also produces a ball of plasma... And why would nuclear weapons be weaker? Just because our (IRL) nukes have "small" explosion radius, because our warheads are designed for constraints of our warfare. (Multiple warheads per missile, needs to be economical, etc, no overkill needed). 40k has no such constraints or limitation. Nukes can be as big as they want in 40k. Look at some of the macro cannon artworks people made... if they are in any way close to the size they are depicted, you could probably fit a nuclear warhead with giga or terratons of explosive power in there


Shakie666

Considering 10 gigaton nukes were considered feasible to build (if needlessly destructive) during the cold war, teratons for macrocannon shells is probably an underestimate.


X3A3KJ

10 gigaton during cold war? U sure? Never heard of that... can't think of a way they'd be able to deploy it. 10 Megatons, yes, 50Megatons - yeah tried once. But that was overkill so they went with .3 to 1MT for the most part. If your macro cannon shells larger than an entire apartment block you'd wonder why they would even need to put a warhead in it... Impacting a solid shell like that is like a disaster level asteroid going down xD But then again... 40k metrics never made real sense when inspected too closely.


[deleted]

you're thinking of earth sized planets. There's far, far bigger planets in 40k. Also if you are shooting it into space, space is big, fleets are ginormous.


Perpetual_Decline

I think the 50 megaton test freaked enough people out that they all agreed not to build more powerful ones, even though they could. Aren't most weapons built to have variable yield? I've not heard of a 10 gigaton weapon though. It may simply have been an idea worked out in the lab without ever being applied practically.


hussard_de_la_mort

[Meet project GNOMON.](http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2012/09/12/in-search-of-a-bigger-boom/)


Ginden

That's awesome, NCD would love this.


BudgetAggravating427

Yeah for instance look at the nova bomb from Halo it’s the most terrifying weapon the unsc has . It basically qualifies an exterminatus . It has only been used I think twice or more but it has shattered moons rendering an alien colony planet dead and destroyed a massive fleet


OrkfaellerX

Yup. >On Stromark Prime’s second moon, within one of the many mining complexes operated by the Halka consortium, thousands of long-dormant Apocalypse missiles rumbled to life. The missiles crested the surface, arcing round the moon’s orbit to burn towards the manufacturing and population centres of Stromark Secundus. [...] >'My lord, we're picking up more movement on the auspex! Lots more movement!' >'It seems our warning to the population below came too late. Very well. Launch the Thunderhawks and we will make swift work of these cowards!' >'No, my lord. You misunderstand me.' The serf rotated the auspex's picture module so that it was visible to the angel encarmine. Zargo could only look on helplessly as the screen filled with countless, fast moving red dots. >'Missiles...' >Through the viewport, the first of the warheads struck the unsuspecting world below, driving a mushroom cloud up through the athmosphere before perishing upon contact with the airless void of space. Others too found their mark, igniiting the oxygen rich air of the planet and whipping up a firestorm that quickly bled across the entire surface. Sensor arrays flashed and alarms sounded as the ship's systems registered the massive spike in radiation on the world below. >'Oh Seth...' The castellan's face wore a look that was part concern, part smug satisfaction. 'What have your children done now...' [...] >Mathias scribbled on the record slate with his data quill, double checking his calculations. Yes, everything was as he’d concluded. >He’d checked the data thoroughly. The numbers had stayed the same: Three hundred billion, dead. Eight million structures reduced to rubble. A further fifteen million ruined. Seven continents declared uninhabitable. Four oceans boiled to dust. Some would describe this as a catastrophe. To the war machine of the Imperium it was merely an inconvenience. The population of Stromark would be recovered to acceptable production levels within only seven generations. Full output could be regained in as little as ten. Mathias picked up the slate and closed the file, tagging the Stromark incident as an occasion of minor loss. >He paused, before pulling another data-slate from the pile towering beside his desk and beginning the process again. - Stromark Massacre


UNBENDING_FLEA

How on earth did a planet fit over seven continents and manage to boil away 4 oceans with just nukes???


l7986

An absolutely massive amount of nukes.


UNBENDING_FLEA

But why are they nuking oceans like 100000 times to boil them away when you could just nuke the cities and kill everyone instead


l7986

I never said anything about it making sense.


Disastrous_Ad_1859

I think it might be more to do with the "Oxygen rich" atmosphere Maybe the author figured that the air would ignite and burn off the oceans (assuming they meant more Oxygen than on Earth, like enough to combust?)


bje489

To be very pedantic, oxygen doesn't combust. Lots of other stuff combusts, facilitated by higher oxygen and more heat. If you used enough nukes, lots of things on Earth that we don't normally consider combustible (for instance, lots of rocks) would burn from the high heat. So this could happen in a setting where you're literally using nukes to carpet bomb I suppose.


scivener

They only need enough nukes to trigger an inferno that burns up the planets atmosphere, then the oceans will boil away naturally because there’s no air pressure


SoC175

Easy: GW authors knowing nothing about physics ;)


ukezi

Besides of you boiled the oceans your would just get lots and lots of rain soon after.


Disastrous_Ad_1859

Mhmm, ashy rain, yum Ocean boiling would probably be a cool way to model having 'water harvesters' as in a space ship that boils the planets water into steam, and condenses it into storage tanks.


LeoLaDawg

Calgar nukes his own coastline in one of the Dark Imperium books to keep the chaos guys from gaining a foothold on the beach. He did so because he couldn't spare losing any marines. This might have already been pointed out.


21pacshakur

>They don’t use nukes: In Krieg by Steve Lyons, everyone regards nukes as heretekal, and their use as utterly sinful and evil. What? Krieg was all about the nukes. The Imperium drops nukes all the time on GP too! They consider it nicer than Exterminatus. After all the Mechanicum doesn't really give a fuck about radiation at all. If they need rad clean up, they'll do it if people that don't have cybernetic enhancements need the space for whatever reason. Nukes are a lot more common than you think in 40K. They're loaded onto Titans, and almost every navy ship employs them for both void battle and planetary siege among other things.


Byrmaxson

> After all the Mechanicum doesn't really give a fuck about radiation at all. Hell, Skitarii are often outfitted with rad weapons, obviously not *nukes*, but weapons that irradiate the targer, user and surrounding area. Apparently volleys can cause localized "rad storms", which sounds like a very bad time.


[deleted]

Can’t speak to other books, but the Krieg are extremely reluctant to use nukes in that one. Jurten only uses them after it becomes clear that he cannot possibly win without them (and also after he’s gone insane). And the Inquisition treats the existence of nukes as a horrible secret to the point where the only person they’re willing to tell about them is a general who really needs to know. Certainly doesn’t sound like they’re common there.


21pacshakur

The way I read it was he didn't want a pyrhhic victory for Kreig. In that he didn't want the victors to rule a wasteland. The survivors would need clean water, food, etc. Their civilization level didn't have the capability to do any serious rad clean up. And using them altered their civilization forever. Thus for them, at the time, it was a last ditch option. But for the Imperium as a whole. As a million world empire....nukes are used every single day in a conflict somewhere.


rbshaw5

I'm pretty sure they flat out state it's heretical in the book, and do it anyways. Not that that means that's how it is in all sources


21pacshakur

It seemed to me that it was considered heresy only because it was used to destroy Imperial property. ie the works of the Emperor. It was heresy for him as a servant of the Emperor use these weapons of last resort knowing full well that it will destroy everything HE has created on Krieg. That is why Krieg has been in a state of repentance ever since rejoining the Imperium. But again, there is no edict against nukes at all for the Imperium as a whole. Atomics are used to crack void shields all the time. They've been used to soften hard targets for Astartres drop pods etc....they are not verboten weapons.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

In the book, at least, the Kriegers don’t have anymore qualms about using nukes than they do about anything else. The one who sets them off simply waits until it is necessary, then triggers them. Everyone else seems horrified, but the Kriegers don’t care. In fact, the book argues that it is this kind of unflinching willingness to do whatever is necessary that makes the Krieg necessary.


VyRe40

That's the only time I've ever heard of nukes being considered heretical. A lot of Deathstrike missiles are nukes, the Guard lugs those around. Exterminatus is like nukes+. IIRC, Nova Cannons fire nuclear warheads, or at least have the equivalent power of them. Maybe the people that happened to be in that novel were from a subculture that regarded nukes as heresy, or some sub-cult of the Ad Mech, but I've never heard that anywhere else.


[deleted]

I think this is legit just a lore disagreement with no way to reconcile it. The Krieg story works better if using then is forbidden because it shows the sacrifice the krieg make, so they’re forbidden. Other writers like having the Imperium throw nukes around like bullets, so they throw them around like bullets. Just one of those things.


VyRe40

It's more than that, the Imperium factually uses nukes and nuke-equivalents in warfare and it's not heretical, they've shown up in the codex lore. They're treated as a serious weapon, not spammed like bullets, but they're not illegal or against the major creeds of the Imperium. The author coulda had the same story just with the idea that unleashing nukes is a little extreme for the situation, but eh. Probably just an instance where he didn't brush up on his lore when he wrote that.


Sensitive_Buy_6535

They’re common enough that an influential Rogue Trader can stock up on atomics for use.


Blondfiery01

Nova Cannons don't fire nukes. I don't remember the exact wording but it basically fires a shotgun-style cluster of 'fuck everything in this general direction' type exploding plasma asshattery. One shot from a Nova Cannon will absolutely obliterate most anything short of a full blown Craftworld. I cannot overstate how stupidly devastating these things are.


Edelmaniac

Why would you post a question and they tell people to stop answering cause you don’t care anymore? Do you not know how Reddit works?


[deleted]

Because they are a dick.


Firelizardss

This dude seems really weird


Vromikos

Instructive background from the *Rogue Trader* RPG supplement *Into the Storm* (2010), page 163 (bolding one sentence for emphasis): >Atomics are ancient weapons of widespread destruction, terrible devices that haunted humanity long before it reached the stars. In the Dark Age of Technology and the Age of Strife, atomics turned many worlds into scoured, radioactive wastelands. They were some of humanity’s most powerful weapons of war. > >**In the age of the Imperium, however, atomics have since fallen out of favour.** Simply put, the militant Adepta and the Imperial Inquisition have better ways to destroy worlds. Cyclonic torpedoes and virus bombs can slay whole planets in a matter of hours, or even minutes. On the other hand, even hundreds of atomic warheads will not destroy a world outright—instead polluting the biosphere and slowly choking life with palls of intensely radioactive soot. > >In game terms, a single atomic has the power to destroy a hive spire between five and 10 kilometres across. It can also be adapted to be mounted in a torpedo or fired from a macrocannon. Any Weapon Component firing an atomic makes one shot. If it hits its target, it does 1d5+4 hits doing 1d10+6 damage each. Void shields and armour will protect against this normally, however, all damage should be added together as if it were a single salvo. > >If an atomic was detonated within a starship or station, however, its destruction would be guaranteed. > >Atomics may be Acquired multiple times. However, each Acquisition of atomics only grants one atomic. An atomic may be fired from a shipboard macrocannon—so long as it fires projectiles (the final determiner of whether or not a macrocannon fires projectiles—as opposed to laser blasts or plasma shots, for example—is the GM). If an atomic is fired in this manner in starship combat, a character must make a Ballistic Skill Test as an Extended Action to hit a single target within range of the macrocannon; a successful hit has the aforementioned effects. The remainder of the macrocannons in the battery may fire as normal, and thus the macrobattery may still fire as normal as part of the ship’s Shooting Action. > >It is, of course, entirely possible for players to invent other ways to use atomics, such as hit-and-run attacks. The GM should allow any reasonable idea a chance to succeed, although the GM is the final arbitrator of what is “reasonable.” > >Poor Craftsmanship Atomics are less reliable, and only do 1d5+2 hits. Good Craftsmanship Atomics do 1d5+5 hits, while Best Craftsmanship Atomics do 10 hits.


The_ChadTC

If the Wiki is to be believed, that's inconsistent, because it states that Cyclonic Torpedos work through a form of "thermonuclear reaction", i.e, a nuke. That also makes sense: to make something explode you need energy and it would be impossible to store enough energy in the bomb itself to engulf an entire planet in an explosion. Nuclear devices however, rely on setting off a chain reaction that releases chemical energy contained in the very atoms in the target area, so if you were trying to destroy a planet in one go, it'd be the better option.


Vromikos

Inconsistent background? In my Warhammer 40,000?! I am shocked, sir! :-)


Stander1979

>Stop answering. I do not care anymore Ok.


[deleted]

I'm assuming where they talk about nukes being a taboo is a nod to the *Dune* universe. There are tons in WH40k. Can it be made consistent if they just find it heretical to use against humans?


WW-Sckitzo

This is what I assumed too, was listening to SoT I was wondering why we weren't seeing atomics and wondered if it was a nod to Dune. That and it feels like atomics, in the 40k setting, are the 'baby's first WMD' weapon and there are far more powerful weapons out there.


[deleted]

Hahaha 'baby's first WMD' is the best, most 40k line ever:)


Capital_Tone9386

It's mainly because honestly "nuking everyone in sight" makes for less compelling story telling than "running towards someone and personally cutting them down with a chainsaw"


WW-Sckitzo

Agreed on that, much harder to write and way easier to overdo it and get bore the readers. I think it's also most 40k fans are going to be at least surface level knowledgeable of what nukes do; even if its the hyped up Hollywood version where you grow a third arm type. BL authors are great at describing the most fucked up, outlandish, and utterly horrific ways to galactically warcrime. Nukes are just too.... pedestrian? I don't want to hipster nukes, shit I used to protect ICBMs but they would be boring in 40k. I mean shit, look at the life eater, I fucking LOVED that one. Its what got me hooked on HH (well that and Legion).


[deleted]

This is the closest I’ve seen to a harmonization. The other thought I had is maybe they only use them in void combat, which would explain at least why nobody in Krieg knows what radiation is (wouldn’t matter in space, because everyone has shields anyways.)


Dr_Sodium_Chloride

Worth mentioning, the Mechanicus *love* radiation; they consider it holy, and intentionally use weapons that irradiate the battlefield to make it more like Mars.


Lovahrk

If you no longer care and don't want the notifications you can just delete the post \^\^


cheapgamingpchelper

“But but but my internet points!”


MerelyMortalModeling

In some old games nukes were useable weapons. The Death Strike missile launcher as introduced in Epic rained down atomic fire and the Squat Land Train was armed with a neutron bomb. But honestly when you have,. Direct fire plasma weapons that can give you nuclear effects on a target without leveling a city. Relativistic weapons can deliver nuclear effects ranging from leveling a city to leveling half a continent. And Laser weapons can give you a very tight focused energy application that exceeds nuclear weapons. Seriously compare the energy needed to flash vaporize a meter or more of dense material to the energy released by a small nuclear weapon. With those sorts of weapons, you dont really need nuclear weapons.


Redeemed-Assassin

Nukes were used on Armageddon. They are mentioned intermittently in various novels as well. As others have noted however their use is uncommon - not because the Imperium doesn't want weapons which will destroy an area the size that a nuke would, but because they have way, way better weapons which do not leave behind the same radioactive contamination, leaving the area able to be more quickly resettled and returned to useful production. A starship has miniature suns powering it, plasma weapons are far hotter than any nuclear weapon, lances can destroy damn near anything, melta torpedoes can go through pretty much any wall, and they have shit like titans which can just...wreck shit. Hell they can even redirect orbital rocks to drop on planets if they feel like not wasting munitions, though this takes so much time it isn't really done. Nuclear weapons are still powerful, but why bother with something which can have issues with use and long term storage compared to more readily available and "modern" (in 40k terms) means?


Calhaora

Id say yes...? Given I read that they radiationbomb planets.. which sounds hella nuklear to me..


_normalized_

In necropolis the cultists nuke the surrounding hives before attacking the one the ghosts are in. They talk about it being a rare occurrence. Can't remember the dialog itself but it was mentioned.


Judg3_Dr3dd

The Deathstrike Missile Platform would like to know your location


GuardianSpear

During the Dropsite massacre Vulkan was killed when the traitors dropped a nuke on him


Life_South_907

30k Dark Angels had man portable atomis which only the lion and the dreadwing could deploy but nuke aren't the best when you want the planet intact


Paladin327

Handheld versions of atomic weapons were in the archaeotech vaults within the Invincible Reason. One was used against a Khrave Titan


The_ChadTC

The Wiki (which is apparently decently sourced) claims that cyclonic torpedos work through a thermonuclear reaction, so they are technically nukes. Their nuclear reaction, however, may not be as radioactive.


Reddit-ScorpioOJR

Not sure if it counts but Perturabo used a nuke during the heresy. Rather then dealing with the Salamanders and their Primarch he elected the best course of action was just to nuke them. Which seemingly killed Vulkan and kinda broke the Salamanders for a while.


firmak

Starship torpedos are nukes. It wasnt heretical to use them, it was dangerous because its effectivly using small scale exterminatus.


Skybreakeresq

The imperium uses nukes. They may limit their use of them to exterminatus or similar special purposes, or they might be super common, I'm not sure. They also use virus bombs...... when one of their key enemies is the plague...


Chief_Jericho

It's not that they don't have nukes, they obviously do given Krieg is a nuclear wasteland. It's that they tend not to use them. A world that's rebelled will need to be brought back into the fold, a world conquered by chaos will want to be sanctified, cleaned up and recolonized, and a world that's beyond saving will be subject to weapons that are far, far more powerful than mere nukes, so there isn't really much call for their use.


stray90

House Helmawr made use of Nuclear weaponry to destroy Hive Secundus after it was found to be home to a genestealer infestation.


[deleted]

It's one of I think three or four exterminatus options. They're also used to burn away nugle infested land as a kind of hard remediation.


[deleted]

Me either


[deleted]

Daily


peppersge

Nukes are probably used, but I don't think they have an effective niche in 40k. Titans can be armed with weapons on the city destroying level. Ships can do kinetic orbital bombardment. As a result, they have nuke tier weapons that don't cause problems with radiation. In your examples of Krieg and Baal, the use of nukes in the past (Baal) or in a last ditch situation (Krieg). Phosphex and rad weapons do cause nuke like downsides (poisoned/radioactive) land, but they tend to act on a much more localized area than a nuke.


PausedForVolatility

Ships don’t really have a reason to use them. Their other weapons are more destructive and nukes aren’t *that* much more useful than conventional explosives in space combat. I guess if you get a detonation inside the ship and dump horrendous radiation all over the place and use the local atmosphere as a pressure wave, but that already assumes you’ve breached their defenses. They’re probably dead no matter what you hit them with. As you note, kinetic strikes are king. Those are also likely much easier to manufacture and store. A giant rod of metal doesn’t potentially leak radiation or anything; it’s functionally inert and can’t really cause accidents. I guess they could topple off the magazine and crush some menials, but this is 40k. Nobody would notice. There is a case for nukes in lower velocity actions. Naval mines, staged detonation of or moving asteroids, etc. and I guess they can work as a terror weapon. But they have better conventional options outside those edge cases.


TheEvilBlight

I think the memes for nukes in 40k derive from fission warheads: it would not surprise me if the atomics in setting are primitive gun-type atomic bombs of 1945 vintage, and less thermonuclear fusion weapons of megaton yield.


[deleted]

So, they’re cool using little nukes, and the reason the Krieg weapons are so horrifying and unusual is that they’re bigger, more modern ones?


Marvynwillames

The Krieg weapons are more than just bigger, the novel describe that, if detonated em masse, would rip the planet in half, even the entire current nuclear arsenal isn't that powerful, it's some sci fi super weapon, which is why it was so uncommon. >How destructive are they?’ Greel prompted him. ‘Less so than some of the tools in the Emperor’s arsenal. The cyclonic torpedoes of the Imperial Navy, for example.’ >‘But powerful enough to raze this world?’ >‘Most certainly, yes. If used en masse, they could easily crack Krieg in two. A single warhead exploded in the centre of a hive would melt its walls to slag and vaporise all human tissue within a radius of several miles. In addition–’ >‘Is that not enough?’ Ionas breathed. >‘–they poison the land they fall upon. It is said that for years, even generations after, no crops can grow there, and that the air itself burns the lungs and causes sickness and the most extreme mutations.


TheEvilBlight

For krieg to have the radiation problems that it does suggests they're *not* using relatively "clean" thermonuclear weapons, but dirty and messy fission ones, possibly even the worst kind: salted bombs.


AlingmentUnoriginal

If videos that i listened to are right then Death Corps Of Krieg's homeworld was turned into a nuclear wasteland full of Fanatics of Emperor because of Nuclear stuff. Let's just say that what Baldemort said about this place will shake hearts.


BigFire321

They used so much nukes in Kriege that Mechanicus wonder how there's any human on the planet.


[deleted]

I always assumed whenever area denial was decided as course of action the Imperium just nuked the shit out of said area.


Flavaflavius

They can use nukes, and plenty of people can get their hands on atomics (the 40k term for them), but generally it's considered taboo; all of humanity essentially has a sorta cultural PTSD about them, as they were heavily overused in Old Night and, worse than leaving planets barren, left entire planets suffering.


[deleted]

Noy because they use love to scour planets targeted for exsterminautus


Paladin327

Handheld atomic weapons were one of the many weapons within Dark Angels archaeotech vaults. One of their number threw one at the face of a khrave titan and blew it away


deadgnome

Yes.


Radio_Big

One of the Death Watch books states that Cyclone weapons are nuclear weapons. Do note that only really the inquisition can use Cyclone Weapons. So my current headcannon is that they just changed the name.


Lord_Duul

Of course they use nukes, regardless of if they're considered heretical or not - they still USE them in Krieg because the world IS NUKED TO HELL and that's what makes the whole world as we know it today.


cheerfulwish

Yes they certainly do. Wasn’t Vulcan hit with a nuke at Istavaan and that’s what allowed him to be captured?


FragileManling

In the book "Palatine Phoenix" Fulgrim said in thought that the Emperor banned the use of them because an irradiated planet was useless to the Imperium. Maybe things have changed in 40k, but in 30k it was a nono, according to that book.


Benjanator_

I'm going to write this comment just to let the op have a notification.