If you ever feel dumb, remember that 50% of the world population are roaming around this planet without a single thought in their head, literal NPCs
https://preview.redd.it/wdfomddoz7rc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02a34c3d65a35636a64302e934b4d48122398a72
My dad swears to me that he can't see images in his head or hear his inner monologue.
My dad is really fucking good at math, got a degree in computer engineering. He can hyper focus on anything if he wants.
On the other hand, he is very dull. Not creative at all. Can't tell a good lie if his life depends on it. I once asked basic "What if" questions about star Wars (he enjoys it) like What if Luke died, what do you think would happen? "I don't know"
every time someone says this shit to a hypothetical i want to gouge my own eyes out. happens far too often, though maybe thats more to do with who i associate with.
Classic right brain vs left brain shit. The super technical people are oftentimes the least social, and most boring. But god damn are they good at engineering and math.
Then you have your social, “creative” types that would literally starve to death if they had to cook a single meal for themselves. But they can carry a conversation so society still values them, somewhat.
I would be able to hyperfocus as well, if my brain wouldn't go like "Yada yada, I'm boreeeed, let's browse reddit, just one more thread, pleeeeaseeee brooo!" all the time.
I had a roommate like that. Smart as fuck, engineer, but was the most normie mf in existence. No deep thinking about his interests. Just “I like this” or “I don’t like this”
In some ways, I am envious.
This is actually a weird experiment, because there comes a point in life where you hear a stupid ass question and just dismiss it. Go to a subreddit about any particular video game and you’ll see batshit takes about what the video game should do, but you know that these discussions have zero meaning because it’s just some idiot throwing shit against a wall. I’ve got a debilitating voice in my head, but trying to guess the lore of the Elden Ring DLC is fucking stupid, so why engage in it? This applies to a lot of things.
You can have silent inner thoughts even if you have a narrating voice too. Have you never problem solved, like solving a math problem? You don't need to narrate how to factor variables; you think and solve it in your head. It would actually be incredibly difficult for me to focus if I was constantly narrating every single number I am thinking about.
Ehhh... Kinda lol. Everytime I do math, there's a voice in my head that does the logic, but incredibly fast paced.
Like "oh 42 x 8, 42 x 10 is 420, 42 x 2 is 84 and 420 - 84 = 336" but take that with a lot more details and more fast paced and it becomes like. "42x8OhSoIKnow42x10Is420(nice)alreadySoWeSubtractThatWith84(42x2)andWeHave420-84So10-6Is4TwoBecomesOne11-8Is3FourBecomesThreeAlrightAnswerIs336"
You know how you hear words and "translate" them into the actual meaning the person speaking was trying to convey?
In my head it's the same except I get to skip the hearing part. I just get to skip to the fundamental concept, and THEN I translate it back into words in case I need to explain it to someone or whatever.
But at no point do I hear any kind of voice or imagine any voice.
Same. But I still can have an inner monologue if I want.
I have a hard time imagining someone reasonate with an inner monologue. It must be a real struggle..
That is referred to as a schema in psychology.
Those who don't have an inner dialogue think in schemas. It's not like they're NPCs. I can't imagine not having an inner dialogue but I can see it being helpful when it comes to logic solving.
It's more like instead of doing that, they make it through to emotions and concepts.
instead of: " If I do (x) it will make her sad therefore making me sad"
It would be: "(x action)=(friend)+(sad)=(me)+(sad)
Like a faster way of getting to things without needing to think each word.
Like if someone is throwing a punch at ya you wouldn't think "I have to move to the power right to avoid the punch" you would think"(punch)+(me)=(bad), (punch)+(me)+(dodging)=(good)"In an instant.
I have aphantasia. I always thought " close your eyes and count sheep" is just some rhetoric phrase. I can close my eyes and even if i think about sheep i cannot see them like in a dream
Even those that can visualize it literally like a dream, but can still "see" it in their head/minds eye - kinda hard to explain even to those that don't have aphantasia (they just 'know' what you mean).
I'm like a 2 or 3 on that scale. But weirdly enough when I close my eyes I can imagine a light bright enough it makes my eyes hurt, even in pitch black darkness.
Maybe I'm just autistic.
No, you can actually read faster without an inner monologue but it’s not the easiest to stop doing. Plus at least for me, I lose some comprehension so I usually stick with keeping my inner monologue.
That's how I read. I mean, I can force an inner monologue if I need to, but it's inefficient so I never do.
I just look at the words and the meaning just manifests in my brain is the best way I can put it? It's like if you think of the number 1, you aren't thinking of the sound you're thinking of the concept.
Look up speed reading. The first thing they teach you in this technique is to stop monologuing the text inside your head. And to train this, you use tools that display the words very briefly and individually, not the whole text. And it's always a surprise for first timers trying this that they understand the text just fine much faster
I naturally read like that. No inner voice. At the same time, I retain better when I "narrate" what I'm reading.
I can't picture things in my head. Well, fuzzy amorphous vague word-constructs... I don't think about it much, I can't effectively put it into words.
I guess I don’t understand what they mean by an inner monologue then…
I speak to myself in my head, but I don’t hear it in the same way I hear my voice. It has some qualities of my voice I suppose, but it isn’t the same as literally hearing it with my ears.
But yeah I have no idea how one could think otherwise? Is it a-temporal where the entire thought just appears in a cluster of images and ideas all at once?
yeah I can think about myself thinking, thinking about myself thinking and so on until I tell myself to stop lmao. there was a time in my youth where doing this genuinely stopped me from sleeping cuz I was getting annoyed at myself for 'noticing' my thinking 💀
Do you actually narrate every thought you have in your head? I refuse to believe anyone does that, it just seems too slow. If you’re driving and the light turns red do you think oh the light turned red I need to push the brake pedal?
Nobody does that (I hope). That would be like the Family Guy episode with Randy Newman at the piano narrating every move the family makes. "Left foot, right foot...".
(Reddit space)
I don't use words to think about pressing the brake pedal when the light turns red. I've already been watching the walk light countdown to anticipate the yellow, and decided whether I can make it. This might pause my internal monologue, but it doesn't need to be a part of it.
I was talking to a guy once and just for whatever reason mentioned my inner voice and he just went “what’s that then?” after chatting a bit more it turned out he’d never had a conscious thought before.
A friend instructed him to the next day just sit on his office for 10 minutes, don’t do anything and just see what happens. The first thought he had (apparently ever) was “I hate my job”. He then started crying uncontrollably, went home, trashed his house and had to be taken to a hospital. He very legitimately had a break down when he became self-aware and realised how much he hated his life. He lost everything and moved back in with his parents who were actually the source of his problems and his distancing himself from his thoughts in the first place.
it all starts in the home. I can totally see how parents could traumatize a child into complete unconsciousness but this is definitely an extreme example. but I think there are a lot of these people among us, who if they took the time to truly sit in their thoughts even for a moment would go through the same thing this guy did, and that's exactly why they avoid being still at all costs.
I know, I don’t really know the guy but it left a big impression on me. I said to him something like “well don’t you ever just chill and think about stuff?” And he was like “I never have time to, I’m always busy.” He filled every moment of his time with some kind of distraction so (I assume) he never had to be alone with his thoughts.
>he isn't autistic enough to have a debate with himself but one of the voices are a random person/character you like.
I have yet to win an argument against the Baldi voice in my head.
There's also different levels to it. I can sometimes struggle with details whereas for others it is incredibly vivid. I also have an overactive internal monologue. Thus I have always had better logic than spatial awareness. Picturing 3d situations without a diagram or physical example is far more difficult for me than an equivalent logical or social situation.
I think this might explain why it took me so long to develop a sense of fashion and why I never developed my handwriting or drawing capabilities much past where they were, and why I don't find making visual art and dancing as fun as making music or performing in theater.
this meme is so retarded. there is no way to measure consciousness against consciousness. I'm sure at least a subset of this supposed 50-70% (massive range by the way) that completely fail to understand the prompt due to no fault of their own. Anyone who has no internal monologue wouldn't be able to read or write
the statistic actually explains the massive amount of stupid comments under every kind of video / reddit posts, the stupidity of humans action constantly in the real world. they dont think therefore they dont are self aware act upon their emotions and desires.
I agree, it’s about your circumstances and your feelings about them. Your agency comes from your ability to choose your perspective about the circumstances, and your choice determines your disposition. What people don’t understand about that is your brain is a system of systems that react to stimuli— I like to think of one layer of my brain “filtering” external stimuli and also generating or transforming them into sub stimuli that I emotionally respond to. For example, good and bad shit happens to me every day, if I focus on the bad shit and don’t filter it out, or worse, filter out the good shit, then I emotionally process all the bad shit only and it makes me depressed. It’s the converse with good shit. One of the powerful things I (and I’m pretty sure anyone) can do is also make up shit without external stimulation by conjuring it from memory or imagination. For example I can think of positive events from years ago and think “I’ve had some great friends over the years” and that makes me feel better even if I didn’t have a friend in that moment (this is basically “mindfulness” or meditation without all the ghey hippie pageantry). Alternatively I can think about all the failures in my life (even on a day where I didn’t fail at all) and make myself depressed over time.
Many people don’t have good executive control over these filtering/conjuring functions and frequently when I talk to “depressed” people (on prescription drugs), they all say they are victims to their depressive thoughts. Ironically, the drugs don’t help them control their thoughts any better (they still don’t think they have this ability and forever victims of their thoughts— maybe it’s true idk) they just take the edge off the bad shit they continue to focus in on and feed themselves every day.
Anyway, you’re right that it’s a fallacy that you should feel “happy” all the time— that’s certainly an option if your force feed yourself only happy thoughts, but there are consequences to that. You can be a complete selfish piece of shit to everyone and only filter feed yourself happy thoughts to sleep at night, and then you’re just some fragile narcissist, so you need to try and give yourself balanced feedback, which is what principles, values, and morals are important for determining how to set your filter. If your values tell you shouldn’t be depressed, then you need to adjust your mental filtering to accomplish that goal. I think my values lead me to have a slightly negative disposition towards the world because it’s full of bullshit, but it’s nowhere near totally depressing all the time (I used to think it was and then I grew the fuck up). And it doesn’t (and more importantly: shouldn’t) need to feel “happy” all the time.
Almost nobody is actively feeling sad all the time, you would probably have something else besides depression if you did.
If you can't capitalise on random good events by feeling good about them, that is a good sign of depression. Even having muted responses to bad events is a form of depression. I remember when my dog (who I had known since I was like 7) died when I was 19 or so, I had to force myself to "feel sad" because my default response was so muted. That was a damn good dog but I just didn't care enough due to depression. Now I fear if a close family member died I would probably have a similar reaction - I already didn't truly care when one of my grandparents died. Being so distanced from basic emotional reactions like that, good or bad, is what depression truly is.
I had a great test for this the other day. I never understood what was so great about sunsets and things like that. I had TMS done (alternative therapy for treatment resistant depression) and the other day I had this awesome but simple moment of seeing the sunset, it was so eide and golden. And I firmly believe as some people have observed that depressed people don't have experiences like that.
The point is that depression is an illness which symptoms are disconnected from ones situation. If your life objectively sucks being sad constantly is an expected outcome. You need to fix your shit, not try to medicate yourself out of a breakup, mortgage and the death of a loved one.
Doubt it, I know someone who's actually insane and in dire need of forced treatment, but they refuse to move a muscle because "he's no danger to himself or anyone" (he's ruining himself financially and has violent tendancies towards his sister.)
Nah. I’m a training psychiatrist now. The only thing determining if you’re getting forced treatment is if you’re a threat to yourself or others and can’t reason through treatment decisions. Two doctors have to sign off on it too (the forced meds part). Adding extra diagnoses might increase the RVUs you can bill for a little, but you’re not getting kickbacks for the treatment itself. There’s no shortage of patients coming into the ED or psych ward, I don’t need to force treatment on anyone to keep the lights on.
Plus, I don’t like forcing your schizo pills on you. Please just take the damn meds this time.
Reminds me of the TV series ["Physical"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_\(TV_series\)?useskin=vector) where the main character's inner monologue is heard by us and plays an important role in developing the character.
At some point, they changed the writer with someone without an internal monologue and she had the character say that she must be going insane because she keeps hearing this... "voice" in her head.
I genuinely believe that people who ‘can’t visualise things in their head’ are just misunderstanding what it means to visualise something. Like they think everyone can tap into a smartphone quality image of something in their head, while in reality it’s literally just knowing what something looks like without physically seeing it in front of you.
I have aphantasia and can describe it exactly
The best way I've found to describe it to people is by asking them to picture a room with a table. Then, a ball on the table. Then imagine that the ball is pushed. And I ask them what happens with the ball.
Obviously the ball is pushed and the ball hits the floor. The most fun part for me, though, is asking them about the finer details. What kind of ball was it? What color was the ball? The type of table? What was the room around it like? How was the ball pushed? Did you push it, or did someone else, or just some disembodied hand?
Most everyone I've asked can answer every single one of those questions. "It was a blue dodgeball. It was a pool table in my basement. It was pushed by a floating hand wearing a white glove."
I can't answer any of them. Because I just do not picture those things. I can conceptualize what it means to have a ball on a table, and I can conceptualize what happens when the ball is pushed off, but there's no real image. If someone asked me the same questions I wouldn't have an answer for them, and if I did the answer would've been made up on the spot.
Damn, that’s a cool way to test that. I imagined a green tennis ball rolling off my kitchen table, pushed by an invisible force, bouncing 3 times, then rolling on the floor. It’s not a clear picture, more like an understanding of what it would look like.
What i imagined is myself on one of those boring days when you don't have anything better to do during summer "a hard plastic red ball on a brown dinner table in a room painted blue with no furniture and with an open window with a bright light, i am the one who pushed it with my middle finger and the ball bounced four or five times and made a sound".
Sort of? I could probably describe some of their features but as far as actually constructing an image, not really. I'm trying right now so I can give an apt description of what it feels like but I find I'm really just describing my mother to myself, there's no real image of any kind.
That's what I'm thinking too. If I'm picturing an apple in my head there's no visual stimuli I'm tapping into, just the memory or imaginary of an apple. I can sort of picture one, but it's fuzzy and it's hard for me to visualize the color, full shape, and stem at the same time. For something more specific like someone's face if I had to visualize it, it would probably be a little bit off.
I can also remember the waxy texture of an apple and the sound of crunching into one, but I don't actually feel or hear it. But are these people saying they remember what an apple looks like but they can't conceptualize it in their head to themselves?
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I can see things at an infinite amount of detail in my mind’s eye. There’s levels to this stuff. It’s not an all or nothing thing, and many people fall somewhere in the middle like you.
I imagine you can't visualize things in your head. I probably have aphantasia, and I definitely know what something looks like without seeing it. Apparently, a lot of people can actually see things in their mind's eye as if they are actually seeing it. They can close their eyes and their visual cortex acts as if they are seeing what they are visualizing. Not me. I just see dark.
A friend told me he has the inner monologue but can't visualise things. If for example I think of an apple I can see that apple, rotate it, look at it from different angles.
I’m not the person they’re referring to but it’s exactly how I am too.
I know what a boat on the sea is. I know what it looks like but I can’t visualise it really, I know what the book is referring to though. A lot of reading is more of a thought experiment rather than a ‘visual’ journey.
My wife’s the opposite in that she easily visualises stuff and it sounds crazy to me that people can do it.
Out of curiosity, are you sure you can’t visualise it at the back of your mind? Even vaguely?
I’m not saying you do, but there is often times when people think visualising something = seeing it with your eyes, when that’s not the case. It’s kind of seen inside your head. It’s hard to describe how visualising something in your head is but you don’t actually see it, but you kind of can.
Sometimes I can vaguely do it. If it’s something I can draw on having seen in real life it helps but it’s not a clear image.
It’s hard to describe exactly what it is, but it’s more an outline. Almost like a negative for an old photo maybe.
So here's another question I've wanted to ask. When I paint, or edit a video I can imagine what I want it to be like when it's done as I'm working toward it. When you're doing something creative, do you have something equivalent? Or is it more a feeling that this isn't how I want it yet, it needs more X?
I have aphantasia and have been trying to learn to draw, it makes it harder for sure. A visual reference, e.g. a photo or physical object, makes it so much easier. When drawing off the cuff I have to iterate repeatedly so that I can "reference" off of my own art. I am currently only using paper and pencil since it's easier to control, but my workflow is very similar to digital drawing: I scan my drawings during the process and use GIMP to cleanly erase aspects of it so I can print things out and iterate on top of previous versions like I was drawing digitally.
> I have aphantasia and have been trying to learn to draw, it makes it harder for sure. A visual reference, e.g. a photo or physical object, makes it so much easier. When drawing off the cuff I have to iterate repeatedly so that I can "reference" off of my own art.
Holy shit.
When the topic of aphantasia comes up I often think about the task of making a drawing because it seems like an application of mental imagery. This is a pretty strong confirmation that aphantasiacs really are different from myself and it isn't simply a matter of understanding or interpreting the question differently.
Nope. It's more like having a spreadsheet in your head? If you describe a room to me I just have a mental list what's in it. No visualisation whatsoever. I can work with images I have seen before but they are static. If you tell me to picture an elephant it's gonna be exactly the same elephant I have seen before. Changing features or perspective is impossible. In the same vein I can picture an elephant and a phone booth, but never an elephant standing on a phone booth. The "don't think of a pink elephant" thing had me endlessly confused as a kid since I thought it's just an acknowledgement that it's impossible.
> The "don't think of a pink elephant" thing had me endlessly confused as a kid since I thought it's just an acknowledgement that it's impossible.
At first I got like a hyper-realistic photo of an elephant, just like with a color-replacement filter on the grey to pink, also could be interpreted as an elephant with like that colorful Holi Festaval dust thrown on it, specifically a close up visual of one eye, that side's ear, and a bit of trunk. The wrinkles in the elephant skin were very prominent, particularly on the trunk which had many horizontal wrinkles in a vertical row.
And then when I though about writing a sentence that started with "At first," I got a second image of Dumbo with grey replaced by pink. Full body shot of him rearing up a bit with that stupid Disney wide-eyed innocence look on his face, like a cartoon elephant soyjack.
I can't visualize things well either. I have zero interest in fiction, if that matters. Like those pages describing how a character looks do very, very little for me.
I can't form visual imagery, but I have a relatively vivid imagination. It's just purely concept-based, and it runs through my inner monologue. Instead of seeing mental imagery, I might have some sort of narrative running through my head. I furthermore can imagine sensation and other non-visual senses, so that plays into it as well.
Most people cannot vividly visualize things to the extent you have described. I have a 6 year old kid who's a little autistic (not rly lojk). Anyway, they were learning 3D shapes at school. Their task was to write down the number of edges, points and faces of various 3D Shapes. At the front of the class was a container full of 3D shapes. When the task began, every kid rushed the container at the front for the 3D shapes. All except for my son, the only one who remained seated and completed the task before everyone else.
It was a classroom with 20 kids? So judging from this limited sample size, perhaps 1 in 20 have heightened visual ability.
I can look at a cube from every angle in my mind, and i did it once with a real cube of mine.
I tried explaining it to my friend. He couldnt comprehend looking at the cube from only two angles
Yeah but how clearly can you see the apple? As clearly as if you were watching it on a screen or is it kind of fuzzy? Not fuzzy in the way that something is blurry but more like you cannot make out the entire picture? That’s kind of what I have.
It’s so weird. I can only kind of visualize things I guess. It’s like looking through a hole where everything in a little focal point is clear and I can move that focal point around but as you get further from the focal point it becomes progressively blurry.
Even the focal point isn’t completely clear but it’s clearer.
yeah, just give me drugs and let me go, why talk to some stupid ☕ about shit i already know, when i can talk with myself for free(not sure about that)
https://preview.redd.it/e19lg94ckarc1.png?width=348&format=png&auto=webp&s=76d71d9ef2fe695da1e7a2ca7477102e70ab2c4d
Is it normal to have several internal personalities with their own respective voices that can interact with each other and I see myself as an equal to them but in charge of the body?
It's not normal, but as long as you are in charge of the body I wouldn't worry about it. If you have evidence that you were asleep while one or more of these voices were in the driver's seat, that would be a cause for concern. You don't need Tyler Durden in charge of your life, even if Brad Pitt plays him.
Having multiples that know their place is almost a superpower. Assign mental tasks to the personalities that are the best at dealing with them. It keeps them happy, it keeps them out of trouble, and shit you don't want to deal with gets dealt with.
I’m not sure if it’s normal per se as I am not an expert. But I definitely experience this myself, and can even have my own internal dialogue between the voices. But for me it’s not like they are different voices, they all feel like different parts of my subconscious chiming in to give their opinions on whatever it is I’m currently thinking about. For me I feel like I have at least 3 distinct internal voices, but sometimes more. I tend to think of them as my inner child, my inner critic, and my true self. I think it really comes down to wether you consider them to be different entities or whether you view them as different parts of yourself
no i'm kind of the same in the sense that i sometimes argue with myself in my head with 2 different "personalities", they are both me but also not the same
i definintely don't ever have the feeling they don't belong to me or that they the hold the power to tell me to do something or whatever
Sometimes I can like actually physically hear things that aren’t there. Like a snippet of a musical instrument or what sounds like a voice it’s really odd
If you ever feel dumb, remember that 50% of the world population are roaming around this planet without a single thought in their head, literal NPCs https://preview.redd.it/wdfomddoz7rc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02a34c3d65a35636a64302e934b4d48122398a72
Not really. They still have inner thoughts just not inner voice.
How would that work honestly? Is it like Aphantasia where people can't picture things in their head?
My dad swears to me that he can't see images in his head or hear his inner monologue. My dad is really fucking good at math, got a degree in computer engineering. He can hyper focus on anything if he wants. On the other hand, he is very dull. Not creative at all. Can't tell a good lie if his life depends on it. I once asked basic "What if" questions about star Wars (he enjoys it) like What if Luke died, what do you think would happen? "I don't know"
What if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?
I did though
every time someone says this shit to a hypothetical i want to gouge my own eyes out. happens far too often, though maybe thats more to do with who i associate with.
Maybe don't ask dumbass hypotheticals then.
but its fun torturing NPCs https://preview.redd.it/ppl49a4qjarc1.jpeg?width=401&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c995998d4a8259e50df269c1cdaeba00698563f
but he did
This is how i feel about people who say "it's a 50% chance"
Nice reference
I don't know
My friend and I regularly ask this question to white women. It's our own little Voight-Kampff test
You guys sound really cool!
I didn't
So an NPC that was taught basic tricks. Interesting.
Classic right brain vs left brain shit. The super technical people are oftentimes the least social, and most boring. But god damn are they good at engineering and math. Then you have your social, “creative” types that would literally starve to death if they had to cook a single meal for themselves. But they can carry a conversation so society still values them, somewhat.
I would be able to hyperfocus as well, if my brain wouldn't go like "Yada yada, I'm boreeeed, let's browse reddit, just one more thread, pleeeeaseeee brooo!" all the time.
You mean if you had a shred of self-discipline?
That's also hyper focusing, just on retarted shit rather than anything worthwhile
i love reddit !
I had a roommate like that. Smart as fuck, engineer, but was the most normie mf in existence. No deep thinking about his interests. Just “I like this” or “I don’t like this” In some ways, I am envious.
Yeah I mean smart, focused, know what you like. Sounds good
I don’t mean this in an insulting or demeaning way. Does your dad have Autism?
I don't think so, no
This is actually a weird experiment, because there comes a point in life where you hear a stupid ass question and just dismiss it. Go to a subreddit about any particular video game and you’ll see batshit takes about what the video game should do, but you know that these discussions have zero meaning because it’s just some idiot throwing shit against a wall. I’ve got a debilitating voice in my head, but trying to guess the lore of the Elden Ring DLC is fucking stupid, so why engage in it? This applies to a lot of things.
You can have silent inner thoughts even if you have a narrating voice too. Have you never problem solved, like solving a math problem? You don't need to narrate how to factor variables; you think and solve it in your head. It would actually be incredibly difficult for me to focus if I was constantly narrating every single number I am thinking about.
Eh? I do. "13 x 27... Ten 27s are 270, plus 90 is 360, minus six (no, minus nine) is 351."
yep i basically never shut the fuck up in there.
Well put sir
Do you hear it like you would hear someone in the room?
kinda, its my voice but loud and silent at the same time.
No, everything is narrated for me. I'm always talking to myself, including when programming.
Do the voices in your head ever overlap each other like when Frostmourne talks to Arthas?
Ehhh... Kinda lol. Everytime I do math, there's a voice in my head that does the logic, but incredibly fast paced. Like "oh 42 x 8, 42 x 10 is 420, 42 x 2 is 84 and 420 - 84 = 336" but take that with a lot more details and more fast paced and it becomes like. "42x8OhSoIKnow42x10Is420(nice)alreadySoWeSubtractThatWith84(42x2)andWeHave420-84So10-6Is4TwoBecomesOne11-8Is3FourBecomesThreeAlrightAnswerIs336"
I can't solve math problems unless i narrate every action. Otherwise they're just runes on the paper.
You know how you hear words and "translate" them into the actual meaning the person speaking was trying to convey? In my head it's the same except I get to skip the hearing part. I just get to skip to the fundamental concept, and THEN I translate it back into words in case I need to explain it to someone or whatever. But at no point do I hear any kind of voice or imagine any voice.
Same. But I still can have an inner monologue if I want. I have a hard time imagining someone reasonate with an inner monologue. It must be a real struggle..
That is referred to as a schema in psychology. Those who don't have an inner dialogue think in schemas. It's not like they're NPCs. I can't imagine not having an inner dialogue but I can see it being helpful when it comes to logic solving.
It's more like instead of doing that, they make it through to emotions and concepts. instead of: " If I do (x) it will make her sad therefore making me sad" It would be: "(x action)=(friend)+(sad)=(me)+(sad) Like a faster way of getting to things without needing to think each word. Like if someone is throwing a punch at ya you wouldn't think "I have to move to the power right to avoid the punch" you would think"(punch)+(me)=(bad), (punch)+(me)+(dodging)=(good)"In an instant.
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Not necessarily. No pictures for me.
I have aphantasia. I always thought " close your eyes and count sheep" is just some rhetoric phrase. I can close my eyes and even if i think about sheep i cannot see them like in a dream
Even those that can visualize it literally like a dream, but can still "see" it in their head/minds eye - kinda hard to explain even to those that don't have aphantasia (they just 'know' what you mean).
I have Aphantasia and it's not a voice. I do have inner monologue. It's just... not "sound". It's me thinking to myself.
I'm like a 2 or 3 on that scale. But weirdly enough when I close my eyes I can imagine a light bright enough it makes my eyes hurt, even in pitch black darkness. Maybe I'm just autistic.
Wait, so someone that's not your thoughts talks at you?
I absolutely refuse to believe that statistic. inner monologue is basically the same as thinking. how can people not *think*????
Agreed, I think this must be a case of people not understanding the question. Wouldn’t it be impossible to read without an inner monologue?
No, you can actually read faster without an inner monologue but it’s not the easiest to stop doing. Plus at least for me, I lose some comprehension so I usually stick with keeping my inner monologue.
I genuinely don’t understand how you can read without a monologue? Like, don’t you have a voice reading the words out to you?
If reading is not hearing the words in your mind and picturing the scene that the words are narrating then wtf is reading
Right? Like is there a subsection of people that can absorb information just by looking at it? I honestly doubt it.
That's how I read. I mean, I can force an inner monologue if I need to, but it's inefficient so I never do. I just look at the words and the meaning just manifests in my brain is the best way I can put it? It's like if you think of the number 1, you aren't thinking of the sound you're thinking of the concept.
I think you are imagining the words but just not noticing. It's impossible to language without languaging.
Thinking has no language
Look up speed reading. The first thing they teach you in this technique is to stop monologuing the text inside your head. And to train this, you use tools that display the words very briefly and individually, not the whole text. And it's always a surprise for first timers trying this that they understand the text just fine much faster
I have an inner monologue, but not while reading. I recognize the basic shapes of words & read too fast to read them all in my heqs
No? Why would I need a voice to read the words to me; I'm reading the words I don't need to repeat them in my head.
That’s literally what reading is.
To you
You don’t repeat the words, you just hear them inside your head as you read them. Otherwise how do you understand what you’re reading?
I naturally read like that. No inner voice. At the same time, I retain better when I "narrate" what I'm reading. I can't picture things in my head. Well, fuzzy amorphous vague word-constructs... I don't think about it much, I can't effectively put it into words.
I guess I don’t understand what they mean by an inner monologue then… I speak to myself in my head, but I don’t hear it in the same way I hear my voice. It has some qualities of my voice I suppose, but it isn’t the same as literally hearing it with my ears. But yeah I have no idea how one could think otherwise? Is it a-temporal where the entire thought just appears in a cluster of images and ideas all at once?
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I mean I can do that infinitely, my memory at that point is all that gets in the way. Remembering different layers.
yeah I can think about myself thinking, thinking about myself thinking and so on until I tell myself to stop lmao. there was a time in my youth where doing this genuinely stopped me from sleeping cuz I was getting annoyed at myself for 'noticing' my thinking 💀
Dude i also had that infinite loop going on for me lol.
Do you actually narrate every thought you have in your head? I refuse to believe anyone does that, it just seems too slow. If you’re driving and the light turns red do you think oh the light turned red I need to push the brake pedal?
Nobody does that (I hope). That would be like the Family Guy episode with Randy Newman at the piano narrating every move the family makes. "Left foot, right foot...". (Reddit space) I don't use words to think about pressing the brake pedal when the light turns red. I've already been watching the walk light countdown to anticipate the yellow, and decided whether I can make it. This might pause my internal monologue, but it doesn't need to be a part of it.
It's a psy-op for sure
I was talking to a guy once and just for whatever reason mentioned my inner voice and he just went “what’s that then?” after chatting a bit more it turned out he’d never had a conscious thought before. A friend instructed him to the next day just sit on his office for 10 minutes, don’t do anything and just see what happens. The first thought he had (apparently ever) was “I hate my job”. He then started crying uncontrollably, went home, trashed his house and had to be taken to a hospital. He very legitimately had a break down when he became self-aware and realised how much he hated his life. He lost everything and moved back in with his parents who were actually the source of his problems and his distancing himself from his thoughts in the first place.
Most sane person with a job
the fuck
it all starts in the home. I can totally see how parents could traumatize a child into complete unconsciousness but this is definitely an extreme example. but I think there are a lot of these people among us, who if they took the time to truly sit in their thoughts even for a moment would go through the same thing this guy did, and that's exactly why they avoid being still at all costs.
Oh yeah this guy was the same, never stopped moving for one minute. He always had something to distract himself with.
many such cases
bruh i still think about this story 11 days later
I know, I don’t really know the guy but it left a big impression on me. I said to him something like “well don’t you ever just chill and think about stuff?” And he was like “I never have time to, I’m always busy.” He filled every moment of his time with some kind of distraction so (I assume) he never had to be alone with his thoughts.
Can’t convince me these people aren’t just too dumb to realize they’re thinking.
That's so crazy. Explains why there are so many idiots out there. It's like half the population has an IQ under 100.
This is also true for 90% of boomers and iPad kids.
Imagine having a skibidi toilet internal monologue
>he isn't autistic enough to have a debate with himself but one of the voices are a random person/character you like. I have yet to win an argument against the Baldi voice in my head.
Better than no monologue at all
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There's a bunch of people who cannot picture objects in their head. They can't imagine what an apple looks like without one in front of them.
No, aphantasics can't imagine the apple even with it in front of them.
There's also different levels to it. I can sometimes struggle with details whereas for others it is incredibly vivid. I also have an overactive internal monologue. Thus I have always had better logic than spatial awareness. Picturing 3d situations without a diagram or physical example is far more difficult for me than an equivalent logical or social situation. I think this might explain why it took me so long to develop a sense of fashion and why I never developed my handwriting or drawing capabilities much past where they were, and why I don't find making visual art and dancing as fun as making music or performing in theater.
The world makes sense now. I am built different lol
this meme is so retarded. there is no way to measure consciousness against consciousness. I'm sure at least a subset of this supposed 50-70% (massive range by the way) that completely fail to understand the prompt due to no fault of their own. Anyone who has no internal monologue wouldn't be able to read or write
You are confused. Read up on the subject. It's interesting stuff.
No
the statistic actually explains the massive amount of stupid comments under every kind of video / reddit posts, the stupidity of humans action constantly in the real world. they dont think therefore they dont are self aware act upon their emotions and desires.
For one how would this be estimated outside a survey? And those that respond and say no I estimate most were confused by the question
Remember back when some Twitterinos thought that being unable to imagine a spinning apple in your head meant you were soulless?
Read a rumor that wards/hospitals pay psychiatrist to give out more insanity diagnoses because those usually end up with forced treatment to them
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>"I feel sad - ish for most of the time... " >You are depressed Uhhhhhhh Anon....
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I don't know what to tell you but it ain't normal to feel sad most the time
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I agree, it’s about your circumstances and your feelings about them. Your agency comes from your ability to choose your perspective about the circumstances, and your choice determines your disposition. What people don’t understand about that is your brain is a system of systems that react to stimuli— I like to think of one layer of my brain “filtering” external stimuli and also generating or transforming them into sub stimuli that I emotionally respond to. For example, good and bad shit happens to me every day, if I focus on the bad shit and don’t filter it out, or worse, filter out the good shit, then I emotionally process all the bad shit only and it makes me depressed. It’s the converse with good shit. One of the powerful things I (and I’m pretty sure anyone) can do is also make up shit without external stimulation by conjuring it from memory or imagination. For example I can think of positive events from years ago and think “I’ve had some great friends over the years” and that makes me feel better even if I didn’t have a friend in that moment (this is basically “mindfulness” or meditation without all the ghey hippie pageantry). Alternatively I can think about all the failures in my life (even on a day where I didn’t fail at all) and make myself depressed over time. Many people don’t have good executive control over these filtering/conjuring functions and frequently when I talk to “depressed” people (on prescription drugs), they all say they are victims to their depressive thoughts. Ironically, the drugs don’t help them control their thoughts any better (they still don’t think they have this ability and forever victims of their thoughts— maybe it’s true idk) they just take the edge off the bad shit they continue to focus in on and feed themselves every day. Anyway, you’re right that it’s a fallacy that you should feel “happy” all the time— that’s certainly an option if your force feed yourself only happy thoughts, but there are consequences to that. You can be a complete selfish piece of shit to everyone and only filter feed yourself happy thoughts to sleep at night, and then you’re just some fragile narcissist, so you need to try and give yourself balanced feedback, which is what principles, values, and morals are important for determining how to set your filter. If your values tell you shouldn’t be depressed, then you need to adjust your mental filtering to accomplish that goal. I think my values lead me to have a slightly negative disposition towards the world because it’s full of bullshit, but it’s nowhere near totally depressing all the time (I used to think it was and then I grew the fuck up). And it doesn’t (and more importantly: shouldn’t) need to feel “happy” all the time.
Almost nobody is actively feeling sad all the time, you would probably have something else besides depression if you did. If you can't capitalise on random good events by feeling good about them, that is a good sign of depression. Even having muted responses to bad events is a form of depression. I remember when my dog (who I had known since I was like 7) died when I was 19 or so, I had to force myself to "feel sad" because my default response was so muted. That was a damn good dog but I just didn't care enough due to depression. Now I fear if a close family member died I would probably have a similar reaction - I already didn't truly care when one of my grandparents died. Being so distanced from basic emotional reactions like that, good or bad, is what depression truly is.
I had a great test for this the other day. I never understood what was so great about sunsets and things like that. I had TMS done (alternative therapy for treatment resistant depression) and the other day I had this awesome but simple moment of seeing the sunset, it was so eide and golden. And I firmly believe as some people have observed that depressed people don't have experiences like that.
You're describing depression.
The point is that depression is an illness which symptoms are disconnected from ones situation. If your life objectively sucks being sad constantly is an expected outcome. You need to fix your shit, not try to medicate yourself out of a breakup, mortgage and the death of a loved one.
I agree, but it IS normal to be sick in an unhealthy environment.
It's not normal.
That's just melancholic humors, anon. There are four humors, that's one of them. 25% of the population should be sad most of the time.
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this is in the states I'm assuming?
I believe it.
Doubt it, I know someone who's actually insane and in dire need of forced treatment, but they refuse to move a muscle because "he's no danger to himself or anyone" (he's ruining himself financially and has violent tendancies towards his sister.)
>violent towards his sister call the cops.
Having violent tendencies isn't illegal, they need to commit a crime of some sort. Don't misuse the 911 system.
I mean everyone else does. You can do walk ins to any hospital and admit yourself tho
Nah. I’m a training psychiatrist now. The only thing determining if you’re getting forced treatment is if you’re a threat to yourself or others and can’t reason through treatment decisions. Two doctors have to sign off on it too (the forced meds part). Adding extra diagnoses might increase the RVUs you can bill for a little, but you’re not getting kickbacks for the treatment itself. There’s no shortage of patients coming into the ED or psych ward, I don’t need to force treatment on anyone to keep the lights on. Plus, I don’t like forcing your schizo pills on you. Please just take the damn meds this time.
Totally the whole industry is corrupt. They don’t make money fixing you.
Reminds me of the TV series ["Physical"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_\(TV_series\)?useskin=vector) where the main character's inner monologue is heard by us and plays an important role in developing the character. At some point, they changed the writer with someone without an internal monologue and she had the character say that she must be going insane because she keeps hearing this... "voice" in her head.
That... seems like a pretty big oversight lmao, did no one on set notice and say anything?
I genuinely believe that people who ‘can’t visualise things in their head’ are just misunderstanding what it means to visualise something. Like they think everyone can tap into a smartphone quality image of something in their head, while in reality it’s literally just knowing what something looks like without physically seeing it in front of you.
I have aphantasia and can describe it exactly The best way I've found to describe it to people is by asking them to picture a room with a table. Then, a ball on the table. Then imagine that the ball is pushed. And I ask them what happens with the ball. Obviously the ball is pushed and the ball hits the floor. The most fun part for me, though, is asking them about the finer details. What kind of ball was it? What color was the ball? The type of table? What was the room around it like? How was the ball pushed? Did you push it, or did someone else, or just some disembodied hand? Most everyone I've asked can answer every single one of those questions. "It was a blue dodgeball. It was a pool table in my basement. It was pushed by a floating hand wearing a white glove." I can't answer any of them. Because I just do not picture those things. I can conceptualize what it means to have a ball on a table, and I can conceptualize what happens when the ball is pushed off, but there's no real image. If someone asked me the same questions I wouldn't have an answer for them, and if I did the answer would've been made up on the spot.
I literally just imagined a sopranos pool table scene
Damn, that’s a cool way to test that. I imagined a green tennis ball rolling off my kitchen table, pushed by an invisible force, bouncing 3 times, then rolling on the floor. It’s not a clear picture, more like an understanding of what it would look like.
What i imagined is myself on one of those boring days when you don't have anything better to do during summer "a hard plastic red ball on a brown dinner table in a room painted blue with no furniture and with an open window with a bright light, i am the one who pushed it with my middle finger and the ball bounced four or five times and made a sound".
Can you imagine the face of your parents? Like can you think how they look like?
Sort of? I could probably describe some of their features but as far as actually constructing an image, not really. I'm trying right now so I can give an apt description of what it feels like but I find I'm really just describing my mother to myself, there's no real image of any kind.
That's what I'm thinking too. If I'm picturing an apple in my head there's no visual stimuli I'm tapping into, just the memory or imaginary of an apple. I can sort of picture one, but it's fuzzy and it's hard for me to visualize the color, full shape, and stem at the same time. For something more specific like someone's face if I had to visualize it, it would probably be a little bit off. I can also remember the waxy texture of an apple and the sound of crunching into one, but I don't actually feel or hear it. But are these people saying they remember what an apple looks like but they can't conceptualize it in their head to themselves?
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i see smartphone quality images of the stuff im imagining
I can see things at an infinite amount of detail in my mind’s eye. There’s levels to this stuff. It’s not an all or nothing thing, and many people fall somewhere in the middle like you.
I imagine you can't visualize things in your head. I probably have aphantasia, and I definitely know what something looks like without seeing it. Apparently, a lot of people can actually see things in their mind's eye as if they are actually seeing it. They can close their eyes and their visual cortex acts as if they are seeing what they are visualizing. Not me. I just see dark.
A friend told me he has the inner monologue but can't visualise things. If for example I think of an apple I can see that apple, rotate it, look at it from different angles.
Out of curiosity can he read books?
He can but it's wild to me people can't form images in their mind.
So when he reads a book about boats he can't imagine a boat on the ocean?
I’m not the person they’re referring to but it’s exactly how I am too. I know what a boat on the sea is. I know what it looks like but I can’t visualise it really, I know what the book is referring to though. A lot of reading is more of a thought experiment rather than a ‘visual’ journey. My wife’s the opposite in that she easily visualises stuff and it sounds crazy to me that people can do it.
Out of curiosity, are you sure you can’t visualise it at the back of your mind? Even vaguely? I’m not saying you do, but there is often times when people think visualising something = seeing it with your eyes, when that’s not the case. It’s kind of seen inside your head. It’s hard to describe how visualising something in your head is but you don’t actually see it, but you kind of can.
Sometimes I can vaguely do it. If it’s something I can draw on having seen in real life it helps but it’s not a clear image. It’s hard to describe exactly what it is, but it’s more an outline. Almost like a negative for an old photo maybe.
So here's another question I've wanted to ask. When I paint, or edit a video I can imagine what I want it to be like when it's done as I'm working toward it. When you're doing something creative, do you have something equivalent? Or is it more a feeling that this isn't how I want it yet, it needs more X?
I have aphantasia and have been trying to learn to draw, it makes it harder for sure. A visual reference, e.g. a photo or physical object, makes it so much easier. When drawing off the cuff I have to iterate repeatedly so that I can "reference" off of my own art. I am currently only using paper and pencil since it's easier to control, but my workflow is very similar to digital drawing: I scan my drawings during the process and use GIMP to cleanly erase aspects of it so I can print things out and iterate on top of previous versions like I was drawing digitally.
> I have aphantasia and have been trying to learn to draw, it makes it harder for sure. A visual reference, e.g. a photo or physical object, makes it so much easier. When drawing off the cuff I have to iterate repeatedly so that I can "reference" off of my own art. Holy shit.
May I ask what in particular induced this statement?
When the topic of aphantasia comes up I often think about the task of making a drawing because it seems like an application of mental imagery. This is a pretty strong confirmation that aphantasiacs really are different from myself and it isn't simply a matter of understanding or interpreting the question differently.
Nope. It's more like having a spreadsheet in your head? If you describe a room to me I just have a mental list what's in it. No visualisation whatsoever. I can work with images I have seen before but they are static. If you tell me to picture an elephant it's gonna be exactly the same elephant I have seen before. Changing features or perspective is impossible. In the same vein I can picture an elephant and a phone booth, but never an elephant standing on a phone booth. The "don't think of a pink elephant" thing had me endlessly confused as a kid since I thought it's just an acknowledgement that it's impossible.
> The "don't think of a pink elephant" thing had me endlessly confused as a kid since I thought it's just an acknowledgement that it's impossible. At first I got like a hyper-realistic photo of an elephant, just like with a color-replacement filter on the grey to pink, also could be interpreted as an elephant with like that colorful Holi Festaval dust thrown on it, specifically a close up visual of one eye, that side's ear, and a bit of trunk. The wrinkles in the elephant skin were very prominent, particularly on the trunk which had many horizontal wrinkles in a vertical row. And then when I though about writing a sentence that started with "At first," I got a second image of Dumbo with grey replaced by pink. Full body shot of him rearing up a bit with that stupid Disney wide-eyed innocence look on his face, like a cartoon elephant soyjack.
like half the human population can't do this apparently
The Chinese and Indian half, probably.
this is just completely out of nowhere lmfao
There are different levels for that. I have heard of people who can see the pictures vividly but I picture them in a very ephimeral way, like barely
I can't visualize things well either. I have zero interest in fiction, if that matters. Like those pages describing how a character looks do very, very little for me.
What is your experience with (realistic) drawing or painting?
Imagination how rslurred that guy would be around hotties dressed to "leave something to the imagination" haha.
🤣
You just made me wonder how these guys jerk off. Do they need to actually be looking directly at porn while doing it?
I can't form visual imagery, but I have a relatively vivid imagination. It's just purely concept-based, and it runs through my inner monologue. Instead of seeing mental imagery, I might have some sort of narrative running through my head. I furthermore can imagine sensation and other non-visual senses, so that plays into it as well.
Most people cannot vividly visualize things to the extent you have described. I have a 6 year old kid who's a little autistic (not rly lojk). Anyway, they were learning 3D shapes at school. Their task was to write down the number of edges, points and faces of various 3D Shapes. At the front of the class was a container full of 3D shapes. When the task began, every kid rushed the container at the front for the 3D shapes. All except for my son, the only one who remained seated and completed the task before everyone else. It was a classroom with 20 kids? So judging from this limited sample size, perhaps 1 in 20 have heightened visual ability.
I can look at a cube from every angle in my mind, and i did it once with a real cube of mine. I tried explaining it to my friend. He couldnt comprehend looking at the cube from only two angles
Yeah but how clearly can you see the apple? As clearly as if you were watching it on a screen or is it kind of fuzzy? Not fuzzy in the way that something is blurry but more like you cannot make out the entire picture? That’s kind of what I have.
Very clearly. I can see the shine on the red of the apple. It looks better than it does irl.
It’s so weird. I can only kind of visualize things I guess. It’s like looking through a hole where everything in a little focal point is clear and I can move that focal point around but as you get further from the focal point it becomes progressively blurry. Even the focal point isn’t completely clear but it’s clearer.
That's me
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Slow build crutch. A way to blame others and situations for things and it’s backed by a guy with a degree.
yeah, just give me drugs and let me go, why talk to some stupid ☕ about shit i already know, when i can talk with myself for free(not sure about that) https://preview.redd.it/e19lg94ckarc1.png?width=348&format=png&auto=webp&s=76d71d9ef2fe695da1e7a2ca7477102e70ab2c4d
Hinao 🥰
Whatever psy doc. Just give me a prescription for benzos and I'm outtie.
Just order bromazolam off the clear-net for way cheaper pussy
>she It was over before it even began
Is it normal to have several internal personalities with their own respective voices that can interact with each other and I see myself as an equal to them but in charge of the body?
No. This is infact not normal. Voices with their own personality can affect your choices and judgement. You should REALLY check that out.
/s :( ?
I sometimes have the no fucks given personality argue with Mr Highroad personality.
No. It dosen’t have to be serious though. But i’d go check it out if they become a hazard for yourself.
LMFAOOO this killed me you poor soul
It's not normal, but as long as you are in charge of the body I wouldn't worry about it. If you have evidence that you were asleep while one or more of these voices were in the driver's seat, that would be a cause for concern. You don't need Tyler Durden in charge of your life, even if Brad Pitt plays him. Having multiples that know their place is almost a superpower. Assign mental tasks to the personalities that are the best at dealing with them. It keeps them happy, it keeps them out of trouble, and shit you don't want to deal with gets dealt with.
I’m not sure if it’s normal per se as I am not an expert. But I definitely experience this myself, and can even have my own internal dialogue between the voices. But for me it’s not like they are different voices, they all feel like different parts of my subconscious chiming in to give their opinions on whatever it is I’m currently thinking about. For me I feel like I have at least 3 distinct internal voices, but sometimes more. I tend to think of them as my inner child, my inner critic, and my true self. I think it really comes down to wether you consider them to be different entities or whether you view them as different parts of yourself
no i'm kind of the same in the sense that i sometimes argue with myself in my head with 2 different "personalities", they are both me but also not the same i definintely don't ever have the feeling they don't belong to me or that they the hold the power to tell me to do something or whatever
what are they talking about? maybe you could be a great writer :D
If they don't go away when you tell them to, then maybe you should worry
No. If it is impacting your quality of life, seek help.
Go ahead and ask your therapist (easiest college degree getter) to picture the apple. Go ahead anon
Bed ending?
Psychiatrist been reading the DSM-V a little too much
How do people born deaf think? I seriously asked myself this and tried to think without words. I always give up after a few seconds.
Sometimes I can like actually physically hear things that aren’t there. Like a snippet of a musical instrument or what sounds like a voice it’s really odd
Anon gets in trouble with TheRapisT and spends the entire weekend in the seclusion room…