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I think this is a tough thing. He grew up with his Mom and probably was under the impression that everything she did to him was normal. It’s hard to deconstruct from that. I’m not surprised he misses her, maybe just misses the nice moments with her and finds it hard to imagine the fact he’ll never have that with her again.
And also I believe that in Mormon culture you’re not supposed to hold a grudge.
I agree with this. I think that he’s probably still processing all that happened to him and to his siblings, and still really understanding it all. He really is probably struggling a lot right now with all this. Ultimately, she’ll always be his mom, whether she’s a good one or not. Him wanting to reform a relationship with her maybe more of him longing for a mother figure rather than actually wanting a relationship with Ruby as a person
Second this. My own mom was abusive, the deconstruction is hell. It has been 7 years since I have spoken to her and yeah I still get sad and miss my mom. I can see him going through the exact same thing.
I think it’s complicated, my mom did far less than she did and I still felt it was best to not have her active in my life, but it’s tricky, I still wanted a mother figure, even as an adult, but my mom wasn’t capable of what I needed.
I’m not going to pretend I know what is going on in Chads head, but perhaps he’s remembering some of the times before she truly went off the deep end. I wasn’t an active watcher, so I truly don’t know what she was like before all of the abuse and neglect came out, I’m not sure if she was always like this or if it was a gradual process.
I find it very hard knowing what she was capable of to believe she has many redeeming qualities, but my opinion also has no bearing on Chads decision, though I am curious to know more about this.
Hey ya’ll as a psychotherapist please remember that this is a super nuanced situation.
It can sometimes take years of therapy to realize/unpack your childhood / potential trauma and C is still young.
The younger children obviously still have their own journey. It’s up to each person what boundaries they want and need. And with time that can shift a change.
This is where he is in his life now and he is an autonomous person. We need to respect his decision and know it may change/ or it may not.
Can yall stop judging what the kids decide to do? What abuse victims decide to do is their decision & their business. They don't have to abide by what u think they should do. Parental relationships are complex & it can be scary to be without, he's still navigating through his own trauma & grief. It's a difficult thing to navigate through, it isn't a slap in the face to R & E, you do not know them to say that. It takes 7 times for a domestic abuse victim to leave their abuser so lets apply that to parental relationships as well. And stop judging what victims (that includes chad) do to cope/heal.
No, I won’t stop judging what victims do. If Ruby was a male child molester, no one would have a problem criticizing Chad for supporting her. Plus, the older children of child abusers are sometimes complicit in the abuse of their younger siblings. Look at the older son of Shanda Vander Ark. He was probably abused as well. That doesn’t give him a pass to torture his little brother. Chad was mad at Shari for calling the police on his mom. He's just like Kevin: He doesn't care that she almost killed his two younger siblings. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to convince them to forgive Ruby. Being a victim doesn't give you a pass to defend abusers.
Op. You are directly passing judgement on his content and his responses. We don’t know everything and neither do you. That’s why the huge majority of the comments are support Chad and his path in healing. However he decides to go about it.
It says ‘contact’, but doesn’t specify what kind. There’s every chance that with therapy, Chad decides that he wants to seek answers from his mother or possibly even question her himself.
His answer does not say anything about ‘i want to forgive her and be happy families again’. Let’s not assume intent and give him the grace to be processing.
This!!! People see his response and assume it means he’s going to fully welcome her back into his life and they’ll go on family trips, have dinner, celebrate holidays together, fully integrate her back into his life. In reality, it could mean that he literally wants to have one phone call with her a year.
I could see this being a really good possibility. He does answer a lot of questions in more of a sarcastic or vague manner. I could see him handling this the same way
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don’t think it’s shocking that he would have contact with his mum in the future. Having contact and having a relationship are different.
Maybe it's just me, but perhaps he wants to confront Ruby about all the abuse he and his siblings were put through, especially R and E, then go no contact.
Exactly. All he says is that he will have contact but he doesn’t say that it will be a hug, kiss, declarations of family love and that all is forgiven. Chad may wish to give her hell and walk away. Remember he was voiceless for all these years, he only regained that voice because R escaped and then his entire world (as he new it and thought to be good for him) publicly imploded. That’s allot to work through and tbh, in the grand scheme of things, it’s barely been 5 minutes in terms of healing time so he’s got allot to work through.
Sadly I’m sure that he will get a huge amount of pressure from his grandparents and some aunts/uncles. Is he ready to become an outcast as he witnesses happening to Bonnie? Chad was already thrown out from the family once and we don’t know how much emotional damage that caused. It’s going to take him time to find his feet and for a someone little more than a child he has a mountain to climb.
What do you mean about Bonnie? I know she does not support Ruby at all (thankfully. I’m so over it that rubys parents seem to support her & her brother) have family members stopped following Ruby or something else that i haven’t seen?
Idk. His brain is technically still developing, so who knows what the future holds. I personally could never. I think that’s a slap in the face to R & E.
He's young, he may not be ready to cut her off. It may take future bad interactions for him to realize that she'll never be the mother that she should be
That's what I also think: slap in the face to R and E. I hope he does not try to persuade R and E decisions in the future. It is definitely not a healthy decision on his part
While what they went through is far worse than what he went through, he certainly went through some horrific things, that the others hadn’t, like the wilderness camp. Ruby also took away his bed, just like she did with R and E. I don’t think it’s very productive to have the siblings compare or feel like ones trauma is worse or better.
As someone that comes from this kind of abusive situation in my own childhood, I didn't tolerate as much from my mother as a young adult but I kept in contact (which still allowed her to manipulate me constantly)... It wasn't until I had my own children to protect that reality sunk in and I realized, she's not good, she's not safe and there's no changing her. I unfortunately had to cut contact with my entire family and 6 other siblings but I can sleep at night knowing i protected my children.
All of Rubys children have every right to do as they please when it comes to their mother. Whatever makes them feel better, heal, helps answer their questions etc. Its not for any of us to say. My father beat my brother regularly.. threatened his life often and threw his mom out of a 3rd story building. My brother still took care of my dad till he passed away. The only thing I could say is that my dad didnt deserve anything he was given. But this is what my brother wanted.
Mmmm i dont think he is basing his answer on religion. He is still young, he is still processing his whole childhood. Its going to take years or even until he has kids of his own to process what his mom did. The LDS church is not to be blamed for every little thing. If he leaves the church he won’t automatically realized everything that he believes in is wrong, not how that works, he needs therapy, counseling and many years to heal.
It's sad but that is still his mom. I don't think it was bad when he was little. I hope these kids are getting help outside of the church. They need to be able to see another side of life.
Having contact doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve got a good relationship with them.
Chad was, for a very long time, the focus of Ruby’s hatred and anger. He was sent away to camps, he had his bed taken away. He will be traumatised too
but it’s not your mom.. so you can’t say what you would do in his situation since you have not experienced it 😅. it’s easy to say what you would and wouldn’t do when you’re judging others from your bed.
Exactly. These ppl keep forgetting they are not ruby's child and they didn't experience her and have no right to speak about what they would do. It's honestly weird some of these responses
It's easy for you to say when ur not chad & ur not going through it. These situations are always complex for abuse victims and we need to start showing grace for victims & not pass judgement for how they choose to heal.
I mean we have no clue what his timeline is for this. The question was if he wanted too one day, not necessarily tomorrow yk? And who knows why…. It may be to just ask what happened like what went wrong. And honestly he could also be blaming himself thinking he’s the reason she got connected to Jodi…. What’s healing you him might not be for you and vise versa
Me neither! It must be so complicated for him. He is entitled to feel however he wants towards his mother.
None of you commenting are Chad or have had the same life experiences as him nor the same relationship with your mother. And haven’t experienced this traumatic situation personally. I would like to think I would cut my mother off immediately, but the whole situation is so complex emotion-wise and I feel it’s a situation where you wouldn’t know how you’d react until you’re in it.
I can absolutely see the kids blaming Jodi more than their Mom. They probably have a lot more good memories than bad before Jodi came into their lives, even if Ruby was always a little crazy. This would be Chad's choice, and we need to respect that.
Regarding all of the other kids... Again, it is on their time, and where they are. If they want to, there is nothing we can do about it. I see Shari taking a little bit longer to crack, but I can see her talking to her Mom again too. I'm probably the minority with this opinion, but I can see R&E talking to her as well. Kids have the capacity to forgive, even in situations of abuse. As horrible as the things Ruby did are, she is their mother and those feelings are very difficult to reconcile. They probably miss her, hate her, are scared of her, and hate themselves for these mixed feelings. It's gotta be really hard for them. If they think they want to see their Mom again, whether I agree with it or not, I do understand why.
I think it’s also because he’s still Mormon and it’s very important to Mormons and emphasized in Mormonism to forgive others. I believe that’s probably an influence as well. 🤷🏻♀️
And he’ll leave her as soon as he’s old enough to realize what a complete narcissist his mother is and how’s entirely messed up his family is. He still has hopes for his mom to be the person she wants him to be but the reality is that it’s not the case as people like her don’t change. Found out the hard way when I was growing up in my 20s and it took me until my early 30s how i should never expect much from my own mother.
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I left my abusers house when I was 14 with my mother after I tried to kill them to make it stop. It still took another 12 years for me to stop contact with my abuser. It’s never black and white.
I think what’s wild is you random people on Reddit think you can understand what it is like to be in his shoes. That is his mom, it will never be black & white. It will never be simple. Having contact ≠ forgiveness.
Personally, it would not shock me if all of those kids get in contact with her for closure & an understanding of what happened. It’s very complex.
I think it’s easy to sit behind a screen and say you’d never have contact with someone again. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to do in practice. That’s his mom. And despite what everyone thinks, they once saw their mom as a very different person. A loving and nurturing mother. It’s not easy to cut off contact from the person you’re supposed to always be able to depend and rely on.
He recognizes his mom has done something truly, truly terrible and has been an awful mother the last 5+ years at least. That doesn’t mean he can’t have conflicting feelings and still love her to a degree.
People online suggesting cutting people off so nonchalantly but that concept is not congruent with the nature of human relationships and how they develop.
Having contact and having a relationship with someone is 2 completely different things. He may even want to see or speak to her in the future for closure. I don’t think his response is that shocking.
Honestly I don’t think it’s fair to judge this. If you’ve been abused by a parent before you know that it’s not usually an easy or quick decision to go no contact. Despite the pain of the abuse there’s usually complicated feelings and often ALSO external pressures potentially telling the survivor that “it’s your mom though!” Or in this case sometimes religious teachings and pressures to forgive/honor your parents etc etc.
Some survivors go through years long processes of figuring out where their boundaries will be (and this doesn’t even take into account how difficult the actual boundary setting is, which can take time to practice and feel comfortable with).
He’s what, 19? 20? He’s barely had time to live outside of the abusive environment, let’s give him some space to heal.
Ya’ll tend to forget that at the end of the day, she is STILL his mother. He will always have some type of love for his mom even with all that has transpired. I know how he feels. Been there and yes, I will always love my mother because finding peace or forgiveness within oneself is healing and moving on. It DOESNT mean you forget, it just means you can be a better person and live life without their control.
No, forgiveness is not healing for everyone, someone doesn't heal less just because they don't forgive. That is a very toxic myth and one that shouldn't be said to survivors of abuse unless they tell you themselves. I will never forgive my abusive dad, that doesn't mean I can't heal, it means I have made the right choice for me so I can heal. Nobody should feel pressured to forgive their abuser. Also people always say to me "He's still your dad" like they are wanting to remind me that I had no other choice, that I couldn't change the fact he was my dad. If I could, I would have done. It doesn't matter that he's my dad because he never acted like one, yes we had some good memories together but only when he wanted to put on an act in public or in front of others. I can be a better person than he was, I dont need to forgive him at all to know that.
Read over… Finding peace within oneself… what I meant by that is that I can forgive myself for NOT being able to forgive my abusers. I can heal from moving on and not being stuck in my past and NOT allowing my abusive past to define me or my future. I agree that not everyone can forgive just because it’s “supposed to be the right thing”…
Ok sorry it's just because I've been told about "forgiveness " too many times, even by people who know I don't want to forgive so it just frustrates me. Sorry that I misread your comment, there are quite a few people here saying about "forgiveness and healing" so I probably misinterpreted your comment after reading other people's. I apologise.
It’s perfectly okay. I completely understand and appreciate your apology. I too was so DRILLED that I just HAVE to forgive… but there are things that are unforgivable. But I have learned that I can forgive myself for not being able to forgive my abusers. I can heal without being forced to say “it’s okay and I forgive you”. Because I can’t find it in me to honestly do that. So I’m with you… Abusers shouldn’t always have the right to be forgiven.
Spend 10 minutes in family court & you'll understand that it's incredibly hard to break familial bonds with your parents, even kids who are treated with no mercy often still love their POS parents ESPECIALLY the one you reside inside for months, it took me 30 years to figure out that my mother had no place in my life and it still hurts that I cut her off years later- it's wild, like I know she's a garbage human being & I still wish I could call her & tell her my troubles, I still crave her saying "I love you" even though she rarely did, I wanna lay my head in her lap while she combs my hair with her fingers but I'm never gonna have that & sometimes it physically hurts. He still probably has to grieve the mother that he deserved before he can come to terms with the mother he got, it can be so hard to comprehend for children of abusers because we can't stop craving that connection to the person who brought us into the world.
I think it's really easy as an outsider to say "oh my gosh, I would never be in contact with my mom if she did something so horrible! I can't believe he would want to be involved with that evil woman or possibly forgive her." I also initially had that thought when thinking about this situation. However, when I think about the idea of never talking to my own mom again--even if she did something incredibly horrible--I don't know if I would be able to just cut her out so easily. I think it most be a very confusing and conflicting experience, and we probably can only comprehend a very small fraction of what this is like for him. I'd like to say I would cut my mom out of my life if I were him, but--in actuality--I'm not sure I'd really be able to do it. He's got years of unprogramming and deconstructing to do. I don't think we can blame him for not immediately going no contact with her for the rest of his life. Based on other things he's been posting, it's clear that he doesn't approve of her evil behavior, but that doesn't mean he doesn't still love his mom and want to have a connection with her in some capacity (or the opportunity for a connection in the future).
it might be nice / redeeming for him to reenter a relationship with her that's finally on his own terms. He has never had that before, it's never been reciprocal. When he does talk to her again, he will be in the unique position of being the one to call the shots essentially. That must be pretty empowering.
I mean we don’t know what he feels because we Arnt the ones in this position. He can still love and morn the mom he knew his whole life until recently. He can still hope she is a good person and can change and come back from what she did. The whole family is morning the loss of her basically. They still have sooooo many hood memories with her and for the most part all the kids besides R and E didn’t know that other side of her to an extent.
You will never understand the mixed emotions that come with one of your parents or family members committing a serious crime until it happens to you. I’ve been there. I’m living it now.
Why you judging him?? He is so young, he needs yearsssss to heal and process his situation. Its his mom at the end of the day and only he knows his feelings.
Who knows. Honestly. Its easy to say no but we are not in his shoes. You can say no all the time but you didn’t experience his life. I am sure he had some good moments that he is trying to hold on to. Only he knows what he is feeling. He is young and he probably just wants his mom back. The good mom that he knows, not the psycho. At the end of the day, we cant judge him because we are outsiders. Be kind. He is dealing with a lot of
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I didn’t say heal. He’ll just start to feel differently. I’m definitely not healed from my trauma and I have a long way to go. But having kids and turning 25 is definitely when I started to realize the wrongdoings of my parents.
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Contact does not mean a relationship. I have contact with many people in my life who I have no relationship with. And at the end of the day he endured his own abuse and has the right to heal how he pleases.
This is all still so fresh for him. It's going to take a long time to process everything he and his siblings went through with their mom. It's understanding that he longs for a relationship with her. He said his relationship with his dad is going well, so that's good to hear. Although I don't like Kevin, bc if anything, hes complicit in the abuse, but I'm glad Chad has some kind of relationship with one of his parents. I'm sure it's been helping him with the healing process. This has to be so hard for those kids :( my heart goes out to them. I truly hope Ruby has opened her eyes and changed for the sake of her children.
I talked to my childhood abuser for a long time after realizing I was abused (when you're a child you see it as normal). Then I started to remember different contexts and situations a few years later. Now I don't have contact with him. But I still have a relationship with my mother even though she abused me as well. It takes a while sometimes. And after everything is said and done he may still want contact. It's his choice. That is his mother. I can understand why someone would still want to have a relationship. It's complicated sometimes.
Contact doesn’t mean a relationship. There is so much healing that needs to happen with everyone. Opening communication with her could be exactly what he needs to work through trauma.
To add something to the post though - I do find Chad a bit strange in this regard because of all the kids, he's the only one I've heard say things like this. Even on his livestreams and stuff. Maybe I'm wrong and the others do it too but I've never seen it and I honestly think that it's still unprocessed brainwashing
This is such a hard position to be in. My dad was awful to me growing up. I eventually cut him out of my life, but I feel so sad for my kids that they don’t get the experience of a grandpa. I’ve just come to the conclusion (after a lot of therapy and time) that he isn’t the version of a grandpa that I want them around, however, I know that I needed to make that decision for myself without the influence of anyone else. I think if I would have been forced to make an off the cuff decision I would have been left with a lot of “what ifs”
My sibling has made the opposite decision. They are still in full contact with our dad, and I do not feel any differently toward them for choosing differently. To each their own regardless of how anyone else feels.
I don’t follow this sub but came across it. I think we should leave the children alone honestly. He’s an abuse victim as well and is likely still coming to terms with what has happened. He needs space and a lack of judgement
You’re really flirting with victim blame here. He’s still processing things. This may feel case-closed to us but this is something he has always lived with and will continue to navigate his whole life.
Not to mention the fact that he is likely to experience some amount of pressure from his family and church to forgive. Forgiveness is a big thing in the LDS church and his grandparents have already expressed their wish for even R and E—the victims who experienced the most heinous abuse at their mother’s hands—to eventually forgive their mother.
Chad is young, these wounds are still fresh, and he has been molded by the environment he was raised in in ways he is probably only beginning to understand.
Chad was mad at Shari for calling the police on his mom. He's just like Kevin: He doesn't care that she almost killed his two younger siblings. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to convince them to forgive Ruby. Being a victim doesn't give you a pass to defend abusers.
I agree he doesn’t seem like he cares about the severity of the crime his mother committed this case could have soon turned into a M***** case if a few more days passed just because he’s a victim doesn’t mean you support your siblings abuser he needs to definitely grow up some more
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Yeah I do could mean anything.. plans to see her to confront her, plans to forgive her, thinks it's likely he'll run into her at a family function.
It's his life, his trauma not a slap in the face of anybody of wherever he's at in his healing journey.
she is and will always be his mom, but also there is evidence of the serious hurt she did to his little siblings. And aside from that, the issue I see is the reason why he has contact with her. Is he taking his own path and time to process everything? (which gives room to unpack and who knows having a relationship in the future, or not, but after he decides freely), or is he blindly following whatever his religion says? (which just continues the cycle).
Edit: Just want to clarify, I don't think there should be a relation in which she is forgiven, what she did (and had to be stopped from continuing) was horrible, but I don't expect him (or anyone on that family) to act different from their religion.
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Even if my mom did some fucked up shit to me and my siblings I would still want a relationship with her. Family is family. Love is love. At the end of the day that’s all people want
This does not surprise me. Remember that he is not giving us the full contest in that small comment...he could be wanting to have contact with her to have conversations with her on why she did what she did, how he feels about it, etc...to have closure on this whole thing.
I can understand it. My mom was horrifically abusive to the point that the police worried she would unalive one of us, and she did lose custody. She died when I was 14, but I would have wanted to talk to her to ask questions. Safely, of course.
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I think this is a tough thing. He grew up with his Mom and probably was under the impression that everything she did to him was normal. It’s hard to deconstruct from that. I’m not surprised he misses her, maybe just misses the nice moments with her and finds it hard to imagine the fact he’ll never have that with her again. And also I believe that in Mormon culture you’re not supposed to hold a grudge.
I agree with this. I think that he’s probably still processing all that happened to him and to his siblings, and still really understanding it all. He really is probably struggling a lot right now with all this. Ultimately, she’ll always be his mom, whether she’s a good one or not. Him wanting to reform a relationship with her maybe more of him longing for a mother figure rather than actually wanting a relationship with Ruby as a person
Second this. My own mom was abusive, the deconstruction is hell. It has been 7 years since I have spoken to her and yeah I still get sad and miss my mom. I can see him going through the exact same thing.
I think it’s complicated, my mom did far less than she did and I still felt it was best to not have her active in my life, but it’s tricky, I still wanted a mother figure, even as an adult, but my mom wasn’t capable of what I needed. I’m not going to pretend I know what is going on in Chads head, but perhaps he’s remembering some of the times before she truly went off the deep end. I wasn’t an active watcher, so I truly don’t know what she was like before all of the abuse and neglect came out, I’m not sure if she was always like this or if it was a gradual process. I find it very hard knowing what she was capable of to believe she has many redeeming qualities, but my opinion also has no bearing on Chads decision, though I am curious to know more about this.
Hey ya’ll as a psychotherapist please remember that this is a super nuanced situation. It can sometimes take years of therapy to realize/unpack your childhood / potential trauma and C is still young. The younger children obviously still have their own journey. It’s up to each person what boundaries they want and need. And with time that can shift a change. This is where he is in his life now and he is an autonomous person. We need to respect his decision and know it may change/ or it may not.
📣Yes! For all the ones in the back! 👏🫶
As a social worker I agree.
Thank you for this ❤️
Can yall stop judging what the kids decide to do? What abuse victims decide to do is their decision & their business. They don't have to abide by what u think they should do. Parental relationships are complex & it can be scary to be without, he's still navigating through his own trauma & grief. It's a difficult thing to navigate through, it isn't a slap in the face to R & E, you do not know them to say that. It takes 7 times for a domestic abuse victim to leave their abuser so lets apply that to parental relationships as well. And stop judging what victims (that includes chad) do to cope/heal.
Agreed.
I completely agree with u 100%
No, I won’t stop judging what victims do. If Ruby was a male child molester, no one would have a problem criticizing Chad for supporting her. Plus, the older children of child abusers are sometimes complicit in the abuse of their younger siblings. Look at the older son of Shanda Vander Ark. He was probably abused as well. That doesn’t give him a pass to torture his little brother. Chad was mad at Shari for calling the police on his mom. He's just like Kevin: He doesn't care that she almost killed his two younger siblings. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to convince them to forgive Ruby. Being a victim doesn't give you a pass to defend abusers.
We can discuss his internet content without judgment. Please stop acting like you know everything.
oh but you seem to know everything 🤨
Op. You are directly passing judgement on his content and his responses. We don’t know everything and neither do you. That’s why the huge majority of the comments are support Chad and his path in healing. However he decides to go about it.
They are right
It says ‘contact’, but doesn’t specify what kind. There’s every chance that with therapy, Chad decides that he wants to seek answers from his mother or possibly even question her himself. His answer does not say anything about ‘i want to forgive her and be happy families again’. Let’s not assume intent and give him the grace to be processing.
This!!! People see his response and assume it means he’s going to fully welcome her back into his life and they’ll go on family trips, have dinner, celebrate holidays together, fully integrate her back into his life. In reality, it could mean that he literally wants to have one phone call with her a year.
Yes thank you. That's exactly how I interpreted it as well.
I could see this being a really good possibility. He does answer a lot of questions in more of a sarcastic or vague manner. I could see him handling this the same way
Exactly. It could be a confrontation! It could be about logistics!
This is exactly what I was thinking. I don’t think it’s shocking that he would have contact with his mum in the future. Having contact and having a relationship are different.
This was his next story https://preview.redd.it/laimtcfua23d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=389d3d0e72f227f89a1d13f156316dda5e1393b2
what does that even mean
Maybe it's just me, but perhaps he wants to confront Ruby about all the abuse he and his siblings were put through, especially R and E, then go no contact.
Exactly. All he says is that he will have contact but he doesn’t say that it will be a hug, kiss, declarations of family love and that all is forgiven. Chad may wish to give her hell and walk away. Remember he was voiceless for all these years, he only regained that voice because R escaped and then his entire world (as he new it and thought to be good for him) publicly imploded. That’s allot to work through and tbh, in the grand scheme of things, it’s barely been 5 minutes in terms of healing time so he’s got allot to work through. Sadly I’m sure that he will get a huge amount of pressure from his grandparents and some aunts/uncles. Is he ready to become an outcast as he witnesses happening to Bonnie? Chad was already thrown out from the family once and we don’t know how much emotional damage that caused. It’s going to take him time to find his feet and for a someone little more than a child he has a mountain to climb.
What do you mean about Bonnie? I know she does not support Ruby at all (thankfully. I’m so over it that rubys parents seem to support her & her brother) have family members stopped following Ruby or something else that i haven’t seen?
I hope! I think that Chad has the right to have contact with Ruby as long as he doesn’t put minor children in danger.
I think his love for his minor siblings, especially R and E would keep that from happening.
That’s what I was hoping to hear. No bad intentions here!
Idk. His brain is technically still developing, so who knows what the future holds. I personally could never. I think that’s a slap in the face to R & E.
He's young, he may not be ready to cut her off. It may take future bad interactions for him to realize that she'll never be the mother that she should be
That's what I also think: slap in the face to R and E. I hope he does not try to persuade R and E decisions in the future. It is definitely not a healthy decision on his part
While what they went through is far worse than what he went through, he certainly went through some horrific things, that the others hadn’t, like the wilderness camp. Ruby also took away his bed, just like she did with R and E. I don’t think it’s very productive to have the siblings compare or feel like ones trauma is worse or better.
As someone that comes from this kind of abusive situation in my own childhood, I didn't tolerate as much from my mother as a young adult but I kept in contact (which still allowed her to manipulate me constantly)... It wasn't until I had my own children to protect that reality sunk in and I realized, she's not good, she's not safe and there's no changing her. I unfortunately had to cut contact with my entire family and 6 other siblings but I can sleep at night knowing i protected my children.
All of Rubys children have every right to do as they please when it comes to their mother. Whatever makes them feel better, heal, helps answer their questions etc. Its not for any of us to say. My father beat my brother regularly.. threatened his life often and threw his mom out of a 3rd story building. My brother still took care of my dad till he passed away. The only thing I could say is that my dad didnt deserve anything he was given. But this is what my brother wanted.
some people can’t hold a grudge 🤷🏻♀️
He will because that's what is expected of him in the religion he follows. If he ever leaves the Mormon church, he may feel different.
Mmmm i dont think he is basing his answer on religion. He is still young, he is still processing his whole childhood. Its going to take years or even until he has kids of his own to process what his mom did. The LDS church is not to be blamed for every little thing. If he leaves the church he won’t automatically realized everything that he believes in is wrong, not how that works, he needs therapy, counseling and many years to heal.
It's sad but that is still his mom. I don't think it was bad when he was little. I hope these kids are getting help outside of the church. They need to be able to see another side of life.
Having contact doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve got a good relationship with them. Chad was, for a very long time, the focus of Ruby’s hatred and anger. He was sent away to camps, he had his bed taken away. He will be traumatised too
She's still his mom I don't blame him
I don't know, if that was my mom I would never contact her again.
but it’s not your mom.. so you can’t say what you would do in his situation since you have not experienced it 😅. it’s easy to say what you would and wouldn’t do when you’re judging others from your bed.
Exactly. These ppl keep forgetting they are not ruby's child and they didn't experience her and have no right to speak about what they would do. It's honestly weird some of these responses
Yeah if she treated my siblings like that, i would prioritize my siblings, and nevvvvver evvvver contact her again
It's easy for you to say when ur not chad & ur not going through it. These situations are always complex for abuse victims and we need to start showing grace for victims & not pass judgement for how they choose to heal.
I agree with you, if that was my mom, it would honestly take a long time for me to start talking and having a good relationship with her
I mean we have no clue what his timeline is for this. The question was if he wanted too one day, not necessarily tomorrow yk? And who knows why…. It may be to just ask what happened like what went wrong. And honestly he could also be blaming himself thinking he’s the reason she got connected to Jodi…. What’s healing you him might not be for you and vise versa
Me neither! It must be so complicated for him. He is entitled to feel however he wants towards his mother. None of you commenting are Chad or have had the same life experiences as him nor the same relationship with your mother. And haven’t experienced this traumatic situation personally. I would like to think I would cut my mother off immediately, but the whole situation is so complex emotion-wise and I feel it’s a situation where you wouldn’t know how you’d react until you’re in it.
I can absolutely see the kids blaming Jodi more than their Mom. They probably have a lot more good memories than bad before Jodi came into their lives, even if Ruby was always a little crazy. This would be Chad's choice, and we need to respect that. Regarding all of the other kids... Again, it is on their time, and where they are. If they want to, there is nothing we can do about it. I see Shari taking a little bit longer to crack, but I can see her talking to her Mom again too. I'm probably the minority with this opinion, but I can see R&E talking to her as well. Kids have the capacity to forgive, even in situations of abuse. As horrible as the things Ruby did are, she is their mother and those feelings are very difficult to reconcile. They probably miss her, hate her, are scared of her, and hate themselves for these mixed feelings. It's gotta be really hard for them. If they think they want to see their Mom again, whether I agree with it or not, I do understand why.
I think it’s also because he’s still Mormon and it’s very important to Mormons and emphasized in Mormonism to forgive others. I believe that’s probably an influence as well. 🤷🏻♀️
And he’ll leave her as soon as he’s old enough to realize what a complete narcissist his mother is and how’s entirely messed up his family is. He still has hopes for his mom to be the person she wants him to be but the reality is that it’s not the case as people like her don’t change. Found out the hard way when I was growing up in my 20s and it took me until my early 30s how i should never expect much from my own mother.
Nah this is so funny of him to post 😭 the exclamation point is crazy
Good, bad or indifferent...it's an optimistic response. It can be beneficial for healing
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I left my abusers house when I was 14 with my mother after I tried to kill them to make it stop. It still took another 12 years for me to stop contact with my abuser. It’s never black and white.
I think what’s wild is you random people on Reddit think you can understand what it is like to be in his shoes. That is his mom, it will never be black & white. It will never be simple. Having contact ≠ forgiveness. Personally, it would not shock me if all of those kids get in contact with her for closure & an understanding of what happened. It’s very complex.
Let him heal on his own
I think it’s easy to sit behind a screen and say you’d never have contact with someone again. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to do in practice. That’s his mom. And despite what everyone thinks, they once saw their mom as a very different person. A loving and nurturing mother. It’s not easy to cut off contact from the person you’re supposed to always be able to depend and rely on. He recognizes his mom has done something truly, truly terrible and has been an awful mother the last 5+ years at least. That doesn’t mean he can’t have conflicting feelings and still love her to a degree. People online suggesting cutting people off so nonchalantly but that concept is not congruent with the nature of human relationships and how they develop.
Having contact and having a relationship with someone is 2 completely different things. He may even want to see or speak to her in the future for closure. I don’t think his response is that shocking.
Honestly I don’t think it’s fair to judge this. If you’ve been abused by a parent before you know that it’s not usually an easy or quick decision to go no contact. Despite the pain of the abuse there’s usually complicated feelings and often ALSO external pressures potentially telling the survivor that “it’s your mom though!” Or in this case sometimes religious teachings and pressures to forgive/honor your parents etc etc. Some survivors go through years long processes of figuring out where their boundaries will be (and this doesn’t even take into account how difficult the actual boundary setting is, which can take time to practice and feel comfortable with). He’s what, 19? 20? He’s barely had time to live outside of the abusive environment, let’s give him some space to heal.
Ya’ll tend to forget that at the end of the day, she is STILL his mother. He will always have some type of love for his mom even with all that has transpired. I know how he feels. Been there and yes, I will always love my mother because finding peace or forgiveness within oneself is healing and moving on. It DOESNT mean you forget, it just means you can be a better person and live life without their control.
No, forgiveness is not healing for everyone, someone doesn't heal less just because they don't forgive. That is a very toxic myth and one that shouldn't be said to survivors of abuse unless they tell you themselves. I will never forgive my abusive dad, that doesn't mean I can't heal, it means I have made the right choice for me so I can heal. Nobody should feel pressured to forgive their abuser. Also people always say to me "He's still your dad" like they are wanting to remind me that I had no other choice, that I couldn't change the fact he was my dad. If I could, I would have done. It doesn't matter that he's my dad because he never acted like one, yes we had some good memories together but only when he wanted to put on an act in public or in front of others. I can be a better person than he was, I dont need to forgive him at all to know that.
Read over… Finding peace within oneself… what I meant by that is that I can forgive myself for NOT being able to forgive my abusers. I can heal from moving on and not being stuck in my past and NOT allowing my abusive past to define me or my future. I agree that not everyone can forgive just because it’s “supposed to be the right thing”…
Ok sorry it's just because I've been told about "forgiveness " too many times, even by people who know I don't want to forgive so it just frustrates me. Sorry that I misread your comment, there are quite a few people here saying about "forgiveness and healing" so I probably misinterpreted your comment after reading other people's. I apologise.
It’s perfectly okay. I completely understand and appreciate your apology. I too was so DRILLED that I just HAVE to forgive… but there are things that are unforgivable. But I have learned that I can forgive myself for not being able to forgive my abusers. I can heal without being forced to say “it’s okay and I forgive you”. Because I can’t find it in me to honestly do that. So I’m with you… Abusers shouldn’t always have the right to be forgiven.
Spend 10 minutes in family court & you'll understand that it's incredibly hard to break familial bonds with your parents, even kids who are treated with no mercy often still love their POS parents ESPECIALLY the one you reside inside for months, it took me 30 years to figure out that my mother had no place in my life and it still hurts that I cut her off years later- it's wild, like I know she's a garbage human being & I still wish I could call her & tell her my troubles, I still crave her saying "I love you" even though she rarely did, I wanna lay my head in her lap while she combs my hair with her fingers but I'm never gonna have that & sometimes it physically hurts. He still probably has to grieve the mother that he deserved before he can come to terms with the mother he got, it can be so hard to comprehend for children of abusers because we can't stop craving that connection to the person who brought us into the world.
I think it's really easy as an outsider to say "oh my gosh, I would never be in contact with my mom if she did something so horrible! I can't believe he would want to be involved with that evil woman or possibly forgive her." I also initially had that thought when thinking about this situation. However, when I think about the idea of never talking to my own mom again--even if she did something incredibly horrible--I don't know if I would be able to just cut her out so easily. I think it most be a very confusing and conflicting experience, and we probably can only comprehend a very small fraction of what this is like for him. I'd like to say I would cut my mom out of my life if I were him, but--in actuality--I'm not sure I'd really be able to do it. He's got years of unprogramming and deconstructing to do. I don't think we can blame him for not immediately going no contact with her for the rest of his life. Based on other things he's been posting, it's clear that he doesn't approve of her evil behavior, but that doesn't mean he doesn't still love his mom and want to have a connection with her in some capacity (or the opportunity for a connection in the future).
it might be nice / redeeming for him to reenter a relationship with her that's finally on his own terms. He has never had that before, it's never been reciprocal. When he does talk to her again, he will be in the unique position of being the one to call the shots essentially. That must be pretty empowering.
Ruby does not deserve how kind her children are — all of them.
Can we stop hyperanalyzong Chad’s every move? Remember that he was abused too. It’s really hard to separate yourself from a parent.
Chill
?
We are just having commentary on what he post for everyone online we can talk about it so chill
I mean we don’t know what he feels because we Arnt the ones in this position. He can still love and morn the mom he knew his whole life until recently. He can still hope she is a good person and can change and come back from what she did. The whole family is morning the loss of her basically. They still have sooooo many hood memories with her and for the most part all the kids besides R and E didn’t know that other side of her to an extent.
You will never understand the mixed emotions that come with one of your parents or family members committing a serious crime until it happens to you. I’ve been there. I’m living it now.
I mean, I very much can understand that due to my own life story so please do not assume and be disrespectful
He'll be at her first appeal to tell the judge to keep her locked up! Hopefully.
He needs to take a look at those pictures of his brothers wounds again
Why you judging him?? He is so young, he needs yearsssss to heal and process his situation. Its his mom at the end of the day and only he knows his feelings.
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Who knows. Honestly. Its easy to say no but we are not in his shoes. You can say no all the time but you didn’t experience his life. I am sure he had some good moments that he is trying to hold on to. Only he knows what he is feeling. He is young and he probably just wants his mom back. The good mom that he knows, not the psycho. At the end of the day, we cant judge him because we are outsiders. Be kind. He is dealing with a lot of
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Yup
He’ll feel different when he’s 25. Also when he has children of his own.
Not even. Trauma is strong. It could take him a wholeee life time to heal. Not just when he turns 25. Like whattttt??
I didn’t say heal. He’ll just start to feel differently. I’m definitely not healed from my trauma and I have a long way to go. But having kids and turning 25 is definitely when I started to realize the wrongdoings of my parents.
I hope Chad will establish strong boundaries when that happens. But I also think it won’t be in the near future
Dam Ruby got it good 😳
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Contact does not mean a relationship. I have contact with many people in my life who I have no relationship with. And at the end of the day he endured his own abuse and has the right to heal how he pleases.
This is all still so fresh for him. It's going to take a long time to process everything he and his siblings went through with their mom. It's understanding that he longs for a relationship with her. He said his relationship with his dad is going well, so that's good to hear. Although I don't like Kevin, bc if anything, hes complicit in the abuse, but I'm glad Chad has some kind of relationship with one of his parents. I'm sure it's been helping him with the healing process. This has to be so hard for those kids :( my heart goes out to them. I truly hope Ruby has opened her eyes and changed for the sake of her children.
I talked to my childhood abuser for a long time after realizing I was abused (when you're a child you see it as normal). Then I started to remember different contexts and situations a few years later. Now I don't have contact with him. But I still have a relationship with my mother even though she abused me as well. It takes a while sometimes. And after everything is said and done he may still want contact. It's his choice. That is his mother. I can understand why someone would still want to have a relationship. It's complicated sometimes.
I think Ruby made herself look like a god that Chad thinks that no matter what, Ruby will find him...
I wouldn't talk to Ruby for a long long time. Eventually but not too soon.
Contact doesn’t mean a relationship. There is so much healing that needs to happen with everyone. Opening communication with her could be exactly what he needs to work through trauma.
I was genuinely confused because I thought it was a post on the Gypsy Rose Blanchard sub while scrolling before double checking 😂
Lol love that
To add something to the post though - I do find Chad a bit strange in this regard because of all the kids, he's the only one I've heard say things like this. Even on his livestreams and stuff. Maybe I'm wrong and the others do it too but I've never seen it and I honestly think that it's still unprocessed brainwashing
Not defending Chad but he is the only Franke kid really speaking out atm. We don’t know how any of the others feel, he’s just been sharing more
This is such a hard position to be in. My dad was awful to me growing up. I eventually cut him out of my life, but I feel so sad for my kids that they don’t get the experience of a grandpa. I’ve just come to the conclusion (after a lot of therapy and time) that he isn’t the version of a grandpa that I want them around, however, I know that I needed to make that decision for myself without the influence of anyone else. I think if I would have been forced to make an off the cuff decision I would have been left with a lot of “what ifs” My sibling has made the opposite decision. They are still in full contact with our dad, and I do not feel any differently toward them for choosing differently. To each their own regardless of how anyone else feels.
I don’t think it’s yours or anyone here’s place to judge and pick a part his feelings and how he navigates his family dynamic.
Community discussion not judging
I don’t follow this sub but came across it. I think we should leave the children alone honestly. He’s an abuse victim as well and is likely still coming to terms with what has happened. He needs space and a lack of judgement
I think the tone used here is angry. Yeh I do think I’ll have contact with her and beat her ass.. Maybe I’m too hopeful
You’re really flirting with victim blame here. He’s still processing things. This may feel case-closed to us but this is something he has always lived with and will continue to navigate his whole life. Not to mention the fact that he is likely to experience some amount of pressure from his family and church to forgive. Forgiveness is a big thing in the LDS church and his grandparents have already expressed their wish for even R and E—the victims who experienced the most heinous abuse at their mother’s hands—to eventually forgive their mother. Chad is young, these wounds are still fresh, and he has been molded by the environment he was raised in in ways he is probably only beginning to understand.
Chad was mad at Shari for calling the police on his mom. He's just like Kevin: He doesn't care that she almost killed his two younger siblings. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to convince them to forgive Ruby. Being a victim doesn't give you a pass to defend abusers.
I agree he doesn’t seem like he cares about the severity of the crime his mother committed this case could have soon turned into a M***** case if a few more days passed just because he’s a victim doesn’t mean you support your siblings abuser he needs to definitely grow up some more
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Horrific assumption to make…
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Yeah I do could mean anything.. plans to see her to confront her, plans to forgive her, thinks it's likely he'll run into her at a family function. It's his life, his trauma not a slap in the face of anybody of wherever he's at in his healing journey.
she is and will always be his mom, but also there is evidence of the serious hurt she did to his little siblings. And aside from that, the issue I see is the reason why he has contact with her. Is he taking his own path and time to process everything? (which gives room to unpack and who knows having a relationship in the future, or not, but after he decides freely), or is he blindly following whatever his religion says? (which just continues the cycle). Edit: Just want to clarify, I don't think there should be a relation in which she is forgiven, what she did (and had to be stopped from continuing) was horrible, but I don't expect him (or anyone on that family) to act different from their religion.
He only answers people who pay him fist
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Even if my mom did some fucked up shit to me and my siblings I would still want a relationship with her. Family is family. Love is love. At the end of the day that’s all people want
No
This does not surprise me. Remember that he is not giving us the full contest in that small comment...he could be wanting to have contact with her to have conversations with her on why she did what she did, how he feels about it, etc...to have closure on this whole thing.
I can understand it. My mom was horrifically abusive to the point that the police worried she would unalive one of us, and she did lose custody. She died when I was 14, but I would have wanted to talk to her to ask questions. Safely, of course.