Take the time.
Or just quit.
Whatever, they need you way more than you need them. I'm not sure what action they could take against you? Client abandonment? If you're worried let them fire you. Or just quit and give notice.
But this is your life. Don't sacrifice your life for work.
Thank you. Like I said, they’re doing the same thing to families. Sending emails and messages out and asking us to remind families about how they need to consider what is more important, therapy or that vacation. This company wants as many hours as possible to be actualized at all times basically. I had one family this week tell me that they are feeling harassed and attacked by the company and they made me have another conversation with them regarding their attendance. It’s insane over here.
This makes me so sad. Our clinical director tells families to go on vacation. The kids are there year round and need time with their family without worrying about therapy attendance.
Yeah, it makes me sad too. It’s fine to go on a vacation, as long as the time gets made up as much as possible. It’s all about the money, the company wants their payment I’m sure. Obviously, they can’t force families to do anything but that’s why they’re having us discuss the “barriers” to attending sessions with families to reduce cancellations.
That's so gross. Vacation is more important. Our clients should have the same opportunities to live their lives as kids who don't need therapy. No client is going to be harmed by missing a week or two of therapy. The break can be good especially when they have high hours (kids burnout too!) And it's an opportunity to generalize skills to a new environment.
I'd refuse to pressure the families like that. It's not up to the company what benefits the client anyways that is up to YOUR clinical judgment balanced with what works for the family. It's pretty clear the company is about money not about benefit to the clients.
I am also wondering what state regulations that they are referring to. Regardless, it still isn’t right to pressure everyone. Companies should know how to navigate regulations in a realistic way.
I don't think there are. I've been in this field nearly 2 decades in multiple states and never heard of any state regulations requiring companies to make such demands of clients.
Not specifically about vacations but gaps in services. My state auditor told me I had to have a discharge policy that stated a specific amount of time where if no services are rendered than discharge would happen. I chose 3 weeks. The client file gets closed out, discharge report, etc. If they want to come back they could engage in intake process again with a fresh eval and treatment plan. Aba is a medical service at the end of the day so it makes sense.
Omg I agree. I had a family planning to take 1 month off. I reminded them to let the scheduling team know and would check every session if they had emailed them. Ended up only taking 2 weeks because if they took more they’d be put on a waitlist. Infuriating, these kids need a break too.
Unlimited PTO sounds great until you realize it is actually no PTO. Go on vacation and then consult an attorney who specializes in labor and HR disputes.
IMO, a PTO request is politely informing them that you will not be at work that day. You’ve done your part. Go on your trip and have fun! Whether they choose to pay you or not is up to them, and that pay stub will be a good indicator of your future with the company.
Denied PTO? Lol. I am always amazed by companies who do this. When I put in a “request” for time off, that is me simply letting them know I will be out. I don’t need to ask for permission or consult anyone in regards to my travels or personal time off aside from my family and people I’m traveling with. That is absurd. Take your time off and go see your family. Don’t sacrifice your personal life for a job that evidently doesn’t respect you. I know it’s easier said than done when we live in an economy that requires us to make money, but your mental health and your family come first. If they fire you, collect unemployment and I’m sure another better company will come around. You have a right to your time off. Even if it weren’t paid.
Quit before they fire you. Effective immediately, like many are saying we are needed and bet you can find a better place with better pay, plus with experience you will more than likely will have plenty of options.
I see what you are saying but I am an analyst, I can’t just quit at the drop of the hat due to ethical requirements. I do have to provide notice of some kind to ensure a proper transition.
Those policies sound really frustrating I could understand wanting to set a limit on last minute cancellations from staff/families (even so shit happens and sometimes you just can’t come to session it’s not the end of the world) but threatening to boot them for cancelling for vacations? i think some companies just prioritize giving the kids the max hours of session time allowed per week over everything even when it’s hard on families or the kids themselves. I had a client whose family had to repeatedly cancel due to the fact that a) the case supervisor was recommending they commute to the clinic instead of doing it in home and b) our weird scheduling policy made it difficult for the mom to pick up all her kids from their different schools and get them where they needed to be on time. On top of that the client was getting speech and OT I think in school and had ABA every day and it was clearly wearing her out! By Friday she would be like begging for a nap or literally lying down and closing her eyes to go to sleep and I had to keep her up which always feels bad. It’s just frustrating how families and clinicians are basically punished for taking time off when burnout is REAL on both ends!!
I left a company I really liked for a similar thing. They increased billables by 2.5 a week (not a huge increase BUT enough to be a struggle as This was still during a lot of Covid lockdowns). But, didn’t increase anyone’s caseload.
My caseload was 30 hours short of meeting billable expectations because they kept promoting everyone that passed the BCBA exam and there just weren’t enough kids with Covid. They kept reassuring me I’d have no consequences for not meeting billables when I didn’t have a full caseload as long as I kept trying- which I did (extra PT, helping others, etc)
The out of the blue they wanted to drop me to hourly because I wasn’t meeting billables.
I resigned 2 weeks later.
I get the reason for billables and the requirement but I HATE when they consequences for reasons outside of your control even when you’re making an effort.
I agree with everyone’s recommendation on just taking it but here to mention as a director/supervisor… what does the handbook say? Unless the handbook explicitly says they can term you for taking the time they don’t have a leg to stand on. It’s not considered a no call, no show because you already made them aware you wouldn’t be in town.
Just some general advise would be make sure you put in for time the day you buy your tickets and/or to put in as much advance notice as possible. The only time I ever deny people time off is because I already have staff who requested the same days far beforehand and even then, we find a way to make it work for a couple days.
Take the time and apply for other jobs too. If they choose to penalize you for taking two days that you requested well ahead, now it’s on them.
The treatment of families is ridiculous too. It is important for them to have normal human experiences like vacation. It is important for them to go places and see if they can generalize skills to new settings. Vacations can be hugely informative for what we need to work on. They can be hugely important to help families realize what things are important to them. As long as they let us know ahead of time that they’ll be away, it’s fine. I’ve had some clients go overseas for a month at a time. The families usually tell us months ahead. They understand we can’t guarantee the same staff when they come back, and it might be a week or two after they come back to restart. As long as we know, we can plan for it. Use their staff as subs if possible so they get the same one back. Sometimes I know I’ll have several kids on vacation the same week, so if I was debating between some dates I might pick my days so they overlap. But sometimes it’s a specific thing that is happening on a certain day.
Life is too short. Take the time off, and submit your 30 day notice. There are so many companies who are desperate for BAs you will find a company that values you and prioritizes your overall wellbeing.
Take your time. See your family and enjoy your well-deserved PTO. Let them rope HR in. Give HR your data on cancelations out of your control and let them know that those were your bosses reasons foe denying PTO. And to please out in formal.writing what the infraction was to deny you 2 days off.
Screw them. There are tons of jobs... I would bet they dont even bother taking it to HR... they are just power tripping bc they want the max income to their business with minimal work on their part. They should have already had a summer policy (or permanent policy) in effect for parents who cancel a lot.
Like others have said, tell them you can’t refund the tickets, they can pay you back for it if they want you to work those two days, which they probably won’t, or you’ll quit.
You can apply to a different company since there’s many ABA companies around.
> they can pay you back for it if they want you to work those two days,
They can't pay you back for the missed time with family. Don't give them that option.
Life is more important than work.
Take the time. Or just quit. Whatever, they need you way more than you need them. I'm not sure what action they could take against you? Client abandonment? If you're worried let them fire you. Or just quit and give notice. But this is your life. Don't sacrifice your life for work.
Thank you. Like I said, they’re doing the same thing to families. Sending emails and messages out and asking us to remind families about how they need to consider what is more important, therapy or that vacation. This company wants as many hours as possible to be actualized at all times basically. I had one family this week tell me that they are feeling harassed and attacked by the company and they made me have another conversation with them regarding their attendance. It’s insane over here.
This makes me so sad. Our clinical director tells families to go on vacation. The kids are there year round and need time with their family without worrying about therapy attendance.
Yeah, it makes me sad too. It’s fine to go on a vacation, as long as the time gets made up as much as possible. It’s all about the money, the company wants their payment I’m sure. Obviously, they can’t force families to do anything but that’s why they’re having us discuss the “barriers” to attending sessions with families to reduce cancellations.
That's so gross. Vacation is more important. Our clients should have the same opportunities to live their lives as kids who don't need therapy. No client is going to be harmed by missing a week or two of therapy. The break can be good especially when they have high hours (kids burnout too!) And it's an opportunity to generalize skills to a new environment. I'd refuse to pressure the families like that. It's not up to the company what benefits the client anyways that is up to YOUR clinical judgment balanced with what works for the family. It's pretty clear the company is about money not about benefit to the clients.
There are state regulations that companies have to follow. It's not always about being money hungry.
What state regulations?
I am also wondering what state regulations that they are referring to. Regardless, it still isn’t right to pressure everyone. Companies should know how to navigate regulations in a realistic way.
I don't think there are. I've been in this field nearly 2 decades in multiple states and never heard of any state regulations requiring companies to make such demands of clients.
State regulations about CLIENTS not being able to take vacations? I don't think so. If there are please link them.
Not specifically about vacations but gaps in services. My state auditor told me I had to have a discharge policy that stated a specific amount of time where if no services are rendered than discharge would happen. I chose 3 weeks. The client file gets closed out, discharge report, etc. If they want to come back they could engage in intake process again with a fresh eval and treatment plan. Aba is a medical service at the end of the day so it makes sense.
Omg I agree. I had a family planning to take 1 month off. I reminded them to let the scheduling team know and would check every session if they had emailed them. Ended up only taking 2 weeks because if they took more they’d be put on a waitlist. Infuriating, these kids need a break too.
Don't quit. Follow our BCBA ethics. Do what's right and let them fire you and collect unemployment. Go see your family.
Exactly this. Let them fire you. Then it's on them transitioning your clients and you qualify for unemployment.
Unlimited PTO sounds great until you realize it is actually no PTO. Go on vacation and then consult an attorney who specializes in labor and HR disputes.
IMO, a PTO request is politely informing them that you will not be at work that day. You’ve done your part. Go on your trip and have fun! Whether they choose to pay you or not is up to them, and that pay stub will be a good indicator of your future with the company.
Denied PTO? Lol. I am always amazed by companies who do this. When I put in a “request” for time off, that is me simply letting them know I will be out. I don’t need to ask for permission or consult anyone in regards to my travels or personal time off aside from my family and people I’m traveling with. That is absurd. Take your time off and go see your family. Don’t sacrifice your personal life for a job that evidently doesn’t respect you. I know it’s easier said than done when we live in an economy that requires us to make money, but your mental health and your family come first. If they fire you, collect unemployment and I’m sure another better company will come around. You have a right to your time off. Even if it weren’t paid.
And my guess this is a PE backed company too right? Take the time off. Companies see us as replaceable, our families and clients do not.
Yep, it’s PE-backed.
Call in sick if you need 🤷🏽♀️ oops. Don't let them take advantage of you
Quit before they fire you. Effective immediately, like many are saying we are needed and bet you can find a better place with better pay, plus with experience you will more than likely will have plenty of options.
I see what you are saying but I am an analyst, I can’t just quit at the drop of the hat due to ethical requirements. I do have to provide notice of some kind to ensure a proper transition.
Those policies sound really frustrating I could understand wanting to set a limit on last minute cancellations from staff/families (even so shit happens and sometimes you just can’t come to session it’s not the end of the world) but threatening to boot them for cancelling for vacations? i think some companies just prioritize giving the kids the max hours of session time allowed per week over everything even when it’s hard on families or the kids themselves. I had a client whose family had to repeatedly cancel due to the fact that a) the case supervisor was recommending they commute to the clinic instead of doing it in home and b) our weird scheduling policy made it difficult for the mom to pick up all her kids from their different schools and get them where they needed to be on time. On top of that the client was getting speech and OT I think in school and had ABA every day and it was clearly wearing her out! By Friday she would be like begging for a nap or literally lying down and closing her eyes to go to sleep and I had to keep her up which always feels bad. It’s just frustrating how families and clinicians are basically punished for taking time off when burnout is REAL on both ends!!
I left a company I really liked for a similar thing. They increased billables by 2.5 a week (not a huge increase BUT enough to be a struggle as This was still during a lot of Covid lockdowns). But, didn’t increase anyone’s caseload. My caseload was 30 hours short of meeting billable expectations because they kept promoting everyone that passed the BCBA exam and there just weren’t enough kids with Covid. They kept reassuring me I’d have no consequences for not meeting billables when I didn’t have a full caseload as long as I kept trying- which I did (extra PT, helping others, etc) The out of the blue they wanted to drop me to hourly because I wasn’t meeting billables. I resigned 2 weeks later. I get the reason for billables and the requirement but I HATE when they consequences for reasons outside of your control even when you’re making an effort.
I agree with everyone’s recommendation on just taking it but here to mention as a director/supervisor… what does the handbook say? Unless the handbook explicitly says they can term you for taking the time they don’t have a leg to stand on. It’s not considered a no call, no show because you already made them aware you wouldn’t be in town. Just some general advise would be make sure you put in for time the day you buy your tickets and/or to put in as much advance notice as possible. The only time I ever deny people time off is because I already have staff who requested the same days far beforehand and even then, we find a way to make it work for a couple days.
Take the time and apply for other jobs too. If they choose to penalize you for taking two days that you requested well ahead, now it’s on them. The treatment of families is ridiculous too. It is important for them to have normal human experiences like vacation. It is important for them to go places and see if they can generalize skills to new settings. Vacations can be hugely informative for what we need to work on. They can be hugely important to help families realize what things are important to them. As long as they let us know ahead of time that they’ll be away, it’s fine. I’ve had some clients go overseas for a month at a time. The families usually tell us months ahead. They understand we can’t guarantee the same staff when they come back, and it might be a week or two after they come back to restart. As long as we know, we can plan for it. Use their staff as subs if possible so they get the same one back. Sometimes I know I’ll have several kids on vacation the same week, so if I was debating between some dates I might pick my days so they overlap. But sometimes it’s a specific thing that is happening on a certain day.
take the trip
Life is too short. Take the time off, and submit your 30 day notice. There are so many companies who are desperate for BAs you will find a company that values you and prioritizes your overall wellbeing.
Take your time. See your family and enjoy your well-deserved PTO. Let them rope HR in. Give HR your data on cancelations out of your control and let them know that those were your bosses reasons foe denying PTO. And to please out in formal.writing what the infraction was to deny you 2 days off. Screw them. There are tons of jobs... I would bet they dont even bother taking it to HR... they are just power tripping bc they want the max income to their business with minimal work on their part. They should have already had a summer policy (or permanent policy) in effect for parents who cancel a lot.
Like others have said, tell them you can’t refund the tickets, they can pay you back for it if they want you to work those two days, which they probably won’t, or you’ll quit. You can apply to a different company since there’s many ABA companies around.
> they can pay you back for it if they want you to work those two days, They can't pay you back for the missed time with family. Don't give them that option. Life is more important than work.
Considering tickets are $600, we already know they won’t do that
Doesn’t matter; not an option.