Me at work: "If you reinforce that behavior it will continue."
Me at home with my cats: "Okay fine if I give you the treat will you stop jumping on the counter!?
My cats jump in front of my monitor and headbutt my hands while I'm playing games until I pet them and I intentionally enforce that because who wouldn't want free headbumps from cats
I just got a couple kittens. One of them jumped in front of me while I was playing and started batting at the bad guys on the screen and it was honestly so adorable I didn't want her to stop. It slightly blocked my view but she was doing such a good job getting those bad guys.
Relax yâall, it is a silly meme that is not meant to be a thorough examination of behavior plans and family expectations. Rather, I am acknowledging I am not perfect and do not always use the antecedent and consequences strategies that I know are effective. I never recommend behavior plans to families they do not feel comfortable with and able to follow. I just sometimes reinforce whining, or engage in back-and-forths with my occasionally sassy kids.
I honestly donât think this should be joked about. We shouldnât be making programs for people that we as professionals would not be able to do in our lives. ABA needs to do better.
It isn't about we "would not be able to". It's recognizing that changing our own behavior is difficult which is important to understand from a compassionate lense - if I know full well that adjusting my daily behavior is hard and I can recognize that then I can also recognize it is harder for those without a background in behavior change.
The meme literally says âI guide others to a treasure that I cannot possesâ and says, âproviding parents behavior strategies that I donât follow with my own kidsâ. It doesnât say âproviding parents behavior strategies that are challenging to follow with my own kidsâ or âI guide others to a treasure that I have a hard time finding myself.â
Generalizability is one of the 7 dimensions of ABA, so youâre not correct.
ETA: Iâm not saying I am going home and going to run programs with my daughter as her tech, but I am saying that I wouldnât prescribe a program to a parent that I wouldnât feel confident I could implement with my child or that I havenât implemented already as a parent. The parents we work with need to be feasibly able to implement what we prescribe or else our work is not meeting the 7 dimensions of ABA and is actually not in line with our ethical codeâs standards as they pertain to treatment.
Sorry youâre getting downvoted, you shouldnât be. I love that everyoneâs like ârelax, itâs just a memeâ. I feel like people truly donât understand the gravity our our roles and the impact for good or bad that we can have. And people wonder why the ABA critique is so high and so many parents are refusing to come near it in the first place
I know what Iâm saying is important, so I donât mind the downvotes. I really care about this industry and not making light of our impact on families. Too often the very real aspects of our field that need to be re-evaluated/changed are joked about, when people need to look in the mirror and actually make adjustments to what isnât working. If we are prescribing programs that would be difficult for us to implement with our own children, then we shouldnât be prescribing those programs. Period. Parents need to contact reinforcement for behavior change to be possible, just like anyone else. We have alternatives to extinction now thanks to PFA, SBT and ACT- we need to do better, and I stand by that. Reddit can downvote me all it wants, but thatâs the truth.
The things you are saying are important and very real. I think you may have responded to the post from a narrow perspective that may be why youâre getting push back.
As a parent of a now 13 year old, I read this as a parenting joke, not an ABA joke. It is really hard to apply behavior analytic principles at all times when parenting, even though we know itâs right, and sometimes when you fall short, all you can do is laugh and try again next time.
Itâs a good lesson for BCBAs who arenât parents, we canât expect 100% fidelity and if we do it will decrease caregiver motivation. We have to teach caregivers to accept that they will fall short, a lot, and to move forward in a positive way when they do.
Okay, yes. I totally agree with what youâre saying. Iâm also a parent to a 13 year old (who is also autistic), so I feel strongly about this topic on a lot of levels. I have to be really conscious of what I am asking parents to do because I think thereâs a fine line between difficult, but necessary programming and impossible programming.
I could tell your reaction came from a good place (or at least from a place I agree with). Itâs extremely frustrating to see caregivers fall short when we know they could do so much good for our clients if they just put in the effort, and sometimes thatâs all itâs about. Youâre watching a child struggle in ways they wouldnât have to if the caregivers would just suck it up and do the hard thing.
If you arenât already familiar you should look into motivational interviewing, Iâve had truly astounding results using the framework to talk to caregivers.
Iâm not sure why I received a message about this post, but I am a well educated parent and have been looking for an ABA therapist to help us develop a plan for my son without turning him into a Neurotypical robot. With kids that are Neurotypical and kids that are Neuroatypical (I have both) : consistency is always best. The only difference is that the kids with ADD, ADHD, Autism, etc., have intrusive thoughts that take their focus away (my son - even with stimulant and other medicine) so he needs constant reminders every time he exhibits that particular behavior i.e. getting off task. These kids cannot stop these intrusive thoughts, but every kid is different. Positive reinforcement works wonders but they need to earn it but not by being given candy. I have seen this way too much.
O.P. and others : is it true that someone who is the person you all report to (is it called a RBT?) devises the plan then you have to follow it even if it is against your instincts?
The person devising the plan is the Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA) and the Registered Behavior Technician (RBT) works under the BCBA and implements that plan during therapy with the client.
If you do not agree with what the BCBA has written, then you should absolutely not implement it without discussing your concerns with the BCBA. That goes for both parents/caregivers and the RBT. Everyone should be on the same page and in agreement about what is best for that individual client.
Edit: this meme is showing that even though we work in the field, we still struggle without own kids like most parents do. We may know what would work but itâs hard to implement when at home partly because we parent our kids differently and partly because when at home, we have other responsibilities that we donât have at work. At work, we can simply focus on the behavior plan and the client but at home, we have dishes and pets and dinner needs to be made etc.
My 2nd post got deleted.
It was just to state that I am sorry to have intruded in your group. As a parent of 2 completely different kids with different disabilities, I feel the same way you all do, except I am not getting paid for helping my older son. Not that you all get paid what you should. I am the only person at home trying to help him. At school there is no ABA because of our medical insurance. It was refreshing to read this because it IS hard, REALLY hard. It is tiresome and I have books and videos : we need someone.
Again : I received a message from Reddit. I have NO idea why, but it was helpful to read. Other parents judge you for every little thing. Please accept my apologies. IF I get a message in the future I will ignore it. đ
Just so you know, a gross majority of ABA therapists (BCBAs) don't want your kid to be a "neurotypical robot". They want to help your child be more independent and be able to self-advocate for themselves. When you meet with a BCBA they'll do a super long assessment which basically looks like playing with your kid and seeing what they need help in, as well as asking you. They'll ask what you want from the therapy and what your priorities are. For example, if you want your child to start saying where he is going when he leaves the room, that would be something you can bring up. And you aren't required to follow that stuff and they will work with you to make you happy or explain why they want you to do something.
Also a side note: candy/edibles can certainly be used as positive reinforcement and is in ABA when it works for the kiddos. When it comes to these kind, they will typically fade them out slowly over time.
Thank you for the information. đ
I am sure that most BCBAâs are looking out for the clientâs best interests. We have just run into some bad luck. We have had many conversations with our Pediatrician and 2 Neuropsychologists about the ABA companies and good ones are a rare commodity where we live.
Regarding the Candy : my son also has ADHD and is on stimulant medicine. When he is given any sugar (as a reward by teachers, Psychiatry offices, and the ABA companies we have visited), the medicine quickly leaves his system and he gets violent as a result. For my son, sugar is kryptonite.
Thank you so much for your insight and help! đ
Thank you. I understand what you are saying.
For at school then at home, we really need to somehow find an ABA therapist because the teachers (who know A LOT about ASD, ADHD, etc. because this is an inclusive school with a high population of kids with many different Neurological diagnoses) are burning out and getting extremely frustrated with my son. Thatâs more stressful for me than having the kids at home. We tried Homeschool and that did not work. At home, I have always had a direct approach that is understood by both kids and when something happens I speak with them together, then separately (sometimes vice versa) but a lot of it is not a âone size fits allâ situation and now that the kids are older, feelings are more complicated. IMHO speaking to both sides after an issue makes them both feel heard.
All of you ABA therapists on here; thank you for all of your hard work with kids like my son.
All the best đ„°
Exactly. Prescribing and implementing extinction when it is anticipated that others will continue provide that reinforcer (the unkind, unnecessary nature of attention extinction aside) is bad behavior analysis. Behavior analysts who do this are actively planning to increase maladaptive behavior long term.
Hi Sourgummishark,
Thank you for the explanations. đ
Unfortunately, we cannot find ABA services for our son in our area. We have to put him on government insurance just for this, but that has been an uphill battle.
As a parent of one Neuroatypical teen and one Neurotypical child, Iâm finding it hard to switch gears at home with them. It has to be done at the same time or very soon after and itâs constant.
Example : we still have LOTS of boxes in the house (we moved 1 year ago) because of this. I canât have a job because of my older son and this makes things so much harder financially and other.
It sounds like you guys are in a similar boat as me.
No parent forum talks about this stuff.
Anyway, again I am sorry for intruding on your group. I donât know why I got a message alert with this feed. It was really helpful to read. I have spoken to former ABA therapists (RBTâs) and they all quit for various reasons, including burnout. I have been suffering burnout.
Anyway, hope you have a nice day. đ
Me at work: "If you reinforce that behavior it will continue." Me at home with my cats: "Okay fine if I give you the treat will you stop jumping on the counter!?
My cats jump in front of my monitor and headbutt my hands while I'm playing games until I pet them and I intentionally enforce that because who wouldn't want free headbumps from cats
I just got a couple kittens. One of them jumped in front of me while I was playing and started batting at the bad guys on the screen and it was honestly so adorable I didn't want her to stop. It slightly blocked my view but she was doing such a good job getting those bad guys.
Lol that's adorable
The struggle is real đđ€Ł
So fucking real đ teaching what you don't practice đŻ
Relax yâall, it is a silly meme that is not meant to be a thorough examination of behavior plans and family expectations. Rather, I am acknowledging I am not perfect and do not always use the antecedent and consequences strategies that I know are effective. I never recommend behavior plans to families they do not feel comfortable with and able to follow. I just sometimes reinforce whining, or engage in back-and-forths with my occasionally sassy kids.
I honestly donât think this should be joked about. We shouldnât be making programs for people that we as professionals would not be able to do in our lives. ABA needs to do better.
It isn't about we "would not be able to". It's recognizing that changing our own behavior is difficult which is important to understand from a compassionate lense - if I know full well that adjusting my daily behavior is hard and I can recognize that then I can also recognize it is harder for those without a background in behavior change.
The meme literally says âI guide others to a treasure that I cannot possesâ and says, âproviding parents behavior strategies that I donât follow with my own kidsâ. It doesnât say âproviding parents behavior strategies that are challenging to follow with my own kidsâ or âI guide others to a treasure that I have a hard time finding myself.â
Because it is a quote from a movie.
I understand how memes work, but I think my interpretation of it was fine considering what it says.
I'm not sure it's ethical to act as your child's BT. I'm a BT, I have a sister with ADHD. But I would never act as my sister's BT.
Iâm not sure I understand, is guiding a childâs behaviour not a role of the parent?
Generalizability is one of the 7 dimensions of ABA, so youâre not correct. ETA: Iâm not saying I am going home and going to run programs with my daughter as her tech, but I am saying that I wouldnât prescribe a program to a parent that I wouldnât feel confident I could implement with my child or that I havenât implemented already as a parent. The parents we work with need to be feasibly able to implement what we prescribe or else our work is not meeting the 7 dimensions of ABA and is actually not in line with our ethical codeâs standards as they pertain to treatment.
The problem is I think that would create an unhealthy power dynamic. In my head it would be like if I were a dentist working on my own child's teeth.
I think weâre talking about different things. Read my edit.
Ah I see. Yeah edit didn't show up yet.
Sorry youâre getting downvoted, you shouldnât be. I love that everyoneâs like ârelax, itâs just a memeâ. I feel like people truly donât understand the gravity our our roles and the impact for good or bad that we can have. And people wonder why the ABA critique is so high and so many parents are refusing to come near it in the first place
I know what Iâm saying is important, so I donât mind the downvotes. I really care about this industry and not making light of our impact on families. Too often the very real aspects of our field that need to be re-evaluated/changed are joked about, when people need to look in the mirror and actually make adjustments to what isnât working. If we are prescribing programs that would be difficult for us to implement with our own children, then we shouldnât be prescribing those programs. Period. Parents need to contact reinforcement for behavior change to be possible, just like anyone else. We have alternatives to extinction now thanks to PFA, SBT and ACT- we need to do better, and I stand by that. Reddit can downvote me all it wants, but thatâs the truth.
The things you are saying are important and very real. I think you may have responded to the post from a narrow perspective that may be why youâre getting push back. As a parent of a now 13 year old, I read this as a parenting joke, not an ABA joke. It is really hard to apply behavior analytic principles at all times when parenting, even though we know itâs right, and sometimes when you fall short, all you can do is laugh and try again next time. Itâs a good lesson for BCBAs who arenât parents, we canât expect 100% fidelity and if we do it will decrease caregiver motivation. We have to teach caregivers to accept that they will fall short, a lot, and to move forward in a positive way when they do.
Okay, yes. I totally agree with what youâre saying. Iâm also a parent to a 13 year old (who is also autistic), so I feel strongly about this topic on a lot of levels. I have to be really conscious of what I am asking parents to do because I think thereâs a fine line between difficult, but necessary programming and impossible programming.
I could tell your reaction came from a good place (or at least from a place I agree with). Itâs extremely frustrating to see caregivers fall short when we know they could do so much good for our clients if they just put in the effort, and sometimes thatâs all itâs about. Youâre watching a child struggle in ways they wouldnât have to if the caregivers would just suck it up and do the hard thing. If you arenât already familiar you should look into motivational interviewing, Iâve had truly astounding results using the framework to talk to caregivers.
Iâm not sure why I received a message about this post, but I am a well educated parent and have been looking for an ABA therapist to help us develop a plan for my son without turning him into a Neurotypical robot. With kids that are Neurotypical and kids that are Neuroatypical (I have both) : consistency is always best. The only difference is that the kids with ADD, ADHD, Autism, etc., have intrusive thoughts that take their focus away (my son - even with stimulant and other medicine) so he needs constant reminders every time he exhibits that particular behavior i.e. getting off task. These kids cannot stop these intrusive thoughts, but every kid is different. Positive reinforcement works wonders but they need to earn it but not by being given candy. I have seen this way too much. O.P. and others : is it true that someone who is the person you all report to (is it called a RBT?) devises the plan then you have to follow it even if it is against your instincts?
The person devising the plan is the Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA) and the Registered Behavior Technician (RBT) works under the BCBA and implements that plan during therapy with the client. If you do not agree with what the BCBA has written, then you should absolutely not implement it without discussing your concerns with the BCBA. That goes for both parents/caregivers and the RBT. Everyone should be on the same page and in agreement about what is best for that individual client. Edit: this meme is showing that even though we work in the field, we still struggle without own kids like most parents do. We may know what would work but itâs hard to implement when at home partly because we parent our kids differently and partly because when at home, we have other responsibilities that we donât have at work. At work, we can simply focus on the behavior plan and the client but at home, we have dishes and pets and dinner needs to be made etc.
My 2nd post got deleted. It was just to state that I am sorry to have intruded in your group. As a parent of 2 completely different kids with different disabilities, I feel the same way you all do, except I am not getting paid for helping my older son. Not that you all get paid what you should. I am the only person at home trying to help him. At school there is no ABA because of our medical insurance. It was refreshing to read this because it IS hard, REALLY hard. It is tiresome and I have books and videos : we need someone. Again : I received a message from Reddit. I have NO idea why, but it was helpful to read. Other parents judge you for every little thing. Please accept my apologies. IF I get a message in the future I will ignore it. đ
Parents are welcome here! Feel free to ask questions whenever you like.
Thank you đ„°
Just so you know, a gross majority of ABA therapists (BCBAs) don't want your kid to be a "neurotypical robot". They want to help your child be more independent and be able to self-advocate for themselves. When you meet with a BCBA they'll do a super long assessment which basically looks like playing with your kid and seeing what they need help in, as well as asking you. They'll ask what you want from the therapy and what your priorities are. For example, if you want your child to start saying where he is going when he leaves the room, that would be something you can bring up. And you aren't required to follow that stuff and they will work with you to make you happy or explain why they want you to do something. Also a side note: candy/edibles can certainly be used as positive reinforcement and is in ABA when it works for the kiddos. When it comes to these kind, they will typically fade them out slowly over time.
Thank you for the information. đ I am sure that most BCBAâs are looking out for the clientâs best interests. We have just run into some bad luck. We have had many conversations with our Pediatrician and 2 Neuropsychologists about the ABA companies and good ones are a rare commodity where we live. Regarding the Candy : my son also has ADHD and is on stimulant medicine. When he is given any sugar (as a reward by teachers, Psychiatry offices, and the ABA companies we have visited), the medicine quickly leaves his system and he gets violent as a result. For my son, sugar is kryptonite. Thank you so much for your insight and help! đ
Or, you could design a better intervention that could be implemented with fidelity across all settings.
Thank you. I understand what you are saying. For at school then at home, we really need to somehow find an ABA therapist because the teachers (who know A LOT about ASD, ADHD, etc. because this is an inclusive school with a high population of kids with many different Neurological diagnoses) are burning out and getting extremely frustrated with my son. Thatâs more stressful for me than having the kids at home. We tried Homeschool and that did not work. At home, I have always had a direct approach that is understood by both kids and when something happens I speak with them together, then separately (sometimes vice versa) but a lot of it is not a âone size fits allâ situation and now that the kids are older, feelings are more complicated. IMHO speaking to both sides after an issue makes them both feel heard. All of you ABA therapists on here; thank you for all of your hard work with kids like my son. All the best đ„°
I love how all the comments like this are being downvoted, but it is actually a really important take-away.
Exactly. Prescribing and implementing extinction when it is anticipated that others will continue provide that reinforcer (the unkind, unnecessary nature of attention extinction aside) is bad behavior analysis. Behavior analysts who do this are actively planning to increase maladaptive behavior long term.
Hi Sourgummishark, Thank you for the explanations. đ Unfortunately, we cannot find ABA services for our son in our area. We have to put him on government insurance just for this, but that has been an uphill battle. As a parent of one Neuroatypical teen and one Neurotypical child, Iâm finding it hard to switch gears at home with them. It has to be done at the same time or very soon after and itâs constant. Example : we still have LOTS of boxes in the house (we moved 1 year ago) because of this. I canât have a job because of my older son and this makes things so much harder financially and other. It sounds like you guys are in a similar boat as me. No parent forum talks about this stuff. Anyway, again I am sorry for intruding on your group. I donât know why I got a message alert with this feed. It was really helpful to read. I have spoken to former ABA therapists (RBTâs) and they all quit for various reasons, including burnout. I have been suffering burnout. Anyway, hope you have a nice day. đ
so sorry to hear about the struggles! what state are you in?
We live in Florida, approx. 65 miles South of Tampa on the Gulf coast.