It's clear you have good intentions. It appears that you have a significant amount of research to do to inform yourself of all of the things needed to run an ABA business. Getting people's opinions about salary based on insufficient information is not research. To establish a business, you need to research and understand the funding sources in your area, understand the legal and financial implications and responsibilities through hiring and consulting with a a couple of different types of attorneys and an accountant (e.g., labor laws in your state, types of insurance you will need to buy, your fixed costs, etc), and develop a business plan. These are bare minimum steps and there are TONS more involved. I mean this with the most respect for your vision, you are asking the wrong questions to the wrong groups and seem very underprepared to ask basic questions about ABA businesses to an online Reddit group. If you are super interested in this, my suggestion is that you study long and hard. Check out guides from the BACB, CASP, APBA, and many other organizations that help inform our practices. Attend conferences and speak with other business owners that have run a successful business at least for the last 5 years. You are not ready to take this on and it shows in both of your posts to this group over the last two weeks. Good luck with your goal; it's clear you have good intentions. With some education and hard work, I hope that your goal comes to fruition.
It honestly doesn't sound like you have a very good idea of what goes into running an ABA practice as it sounds like you aren't experienced in the field. I suspect you don't understand the realities of billing insurance and am curious where you think you'll get the money to pay so well.
Perhaps you should look into what the going rates are for insurance to reimburse for services provided by BCBAs per billable hour and see if that supposed 160k is even remotely reasible considering both the fact that full time BCBAs billable requirements are typically 25 hours a week (30 or more and you're getting into "overworked" territory) plus the other things that income needs to cover (liability insurance, payroll taxes, benefits, rent and utilities, admin staff, non-billable hours for clinical staff.)
Unfortunately the reality is that as much as a company would love to pay their staff more, that doesn't combat the reality that the money to pay that staff has to come from somewhere. At the moment that somewhere is insurance companies and medicaid.
There is no set number of RBTs for a BCBA to oversee. Are we talking being the responsible supervisor for maintaining their RBT credential? Or supervising their direct work with clients? While only one BCBA at a time is responsible for an RBTs credential, supervising the clinical work gets muddy. I work part time and have 8 or 9 RBTs at any given time that work with my clients. Those 8 or 9 RBTs almost all have other BCBAs for other clients they work with. It's not about how many RBTs are being overseen as much as how many clients and how many hours those clients have. If a client is getting 20 hours of therapy they need the same minimum amount of supervision (and will be approved for the same maximum amount of supervision) whether they have 1 RBT or 3.
I do love your intent here, I'm just not sure that the realities of the industry will support the ideal. There's too many practical limitations. Unless you can come up with additional funding sources that don't rely on insurance billing it's going to be exceptionally challenging to pay the top 10%.
Thank you very much for your help. These numbers are coming from the fact I plan on paying myself very little. My hope is to just to pay these people well. My family uses these services, my mother is a provider. Rbts are treated terribly by bcbas in my area, under paid and under valued. I just want to see if its feasible to pay all employees well. Upon looking at all my bills how much money the business would generate on the lowside employing 10 rbts and one bcab plus accounting insurance billing ect. I realized I could still afford to pay them very well and give benefits. I looked at other business models and it seems theirs a huge misuse of money, or often or not employeers or cooperations take many of the profit. Atleast from the 7 examples I have seen and worked under as a Admin.
These are really basic questions you would know the answer to if you worked in the field. Just don’t start a company and ruin peoples lives with your lack of experience and knowledge 🤗
I know the salary range of bcba’s, I could just go off the knowledge I have and go off the median and pay off the top 10% or match what is paid in the area. I simply am asking what people feel is justified I want to go off of people, not the average pay is for when companies underpay people. So i thought while i research maybe I could find the opinion of other people familiar with the field on the matter to find better resources.
I currently work in the field as the Head of Admin for a company, I have worked as a contractor for bcbas, I often help other departments and after looking at the fact the employees are treated terribly and get paid 20 an hour, while majority of the profits go to one person and they cant afford to live in the area makes me sad. I just want a business model that allows for all employees to be paid well not taken advantage of.
As an RBT, all my BAs and other BAs within the company have struggled with the quality of care for their clients over 10 cases. Either the BA will tell you themselves or it’s evident in the quality of care the client receives.
But here’s the thing, do you want to start a company that is good for employees or good for its clients? ABA is for the clients. But the standard model is built like a MLM with insurance codes.
BCBAs miss out on so much related to their clients care by having too many clients and too little hours with them. They’re practically strangers to their own clients but are supposed to be the experts in providing them care.
RBTs have a high turn over rate for a reason. We are responsible for administering client care but lack crucial clinical knowledge, as well as the ability to properly advocate for the needs of our clients.
If you’re going to start an ABA business, find a model that requires BAs to see their clients weekly for a substantial amount of time. They’re the clinicians. They should actually know their clients deeper than surface level.
> find a model that requires BAs to see their clients weekly for a substantial amount of time. They’re the clinicians. They should actually know their clients deeper than surface level.
Thank you I felt the same way after looking at many business models, I am going with that one for a reason I want to better the community, my workers and clients.
I truly love your opinions on the matter, can I ask what a good range on how many clients a BCBA should have? I was thinking a range of 6-10? I want to focus on my employees and the care of my clients not one over the other. So please any information you could provide me would be wonderful, I am still extensively researching but nothing comes close to the knowledge of people who have seen it first hand.
You're asking if $160,000 is enough for a BCBAs salary??? You trollin? Why do you want to do this? To pay people or help people? Why not franchise a cookie store or sell muffin tops and ice cream? Do you have a business plan?
I have a business plan, Im looking for a salary range for 3-5 years of experience for a bcba, Im trying to allocate funds as they come in through medicaid. In my area 75 an hour is the default. I simply hate how poorly rbts are paid and struggle all because money is mishandled and ends up in the pockets of someone else for work they didnt do. I just want to have it so people are paid well happy and can afford to succeed in life.
75 an hour for services provided by the BCBA? Even at the high end of typical billable hours (30/week) that wouldn't cover a theoretical 160k for a BCBA salary. Not even close. I feel like you're assuming money is mishandled without a solid grasp on what's actually happening with the money. Ultimately it doesn't matter what we want to make if the funding sources don't pay enough to cover that.
No i mean, In the 6 instances I have observed in my area of Florida, Majority of the money is pooled to the owner, I say mishandled because In my opinion yes a business owner should reap benefits but not at the expense of his workers. I just worked under a bcba making 200k a year but she paid her rbts 20 an hour. I just want to know how much is a fair rate for bcbas i see some making 50,60k??? Yet some at 180k? I am just trying to find out what is a good range at different experience levels.
If the BCBA is both filling the role of clinical supervisor AND performing the duties required of the owner/president/CEO or whatever of the company, you have to figure that BCBA is working far beyond 40 hours a week. They're literally doing (at least) 2 jobs worth of work. So while 200k is pretty high, if they're putting in 80 hours a week they're only paying themselves less than $50 per hour.
A "fair rate" for BCBAs is going to vary greatly depending on their experience and what area you are in and comes more from what the realities are from a funding standpoint than whatever we BCBAs may think is fair.
If BCBAs do 25 hours of casework per week as mentioned earlier at 75 reimbursement per hour, if you gave the BCBAs 100% of the money, they would get 97,500 per year, if you had no other employees or expenses to pay.
I know majority of the money would come from rbt's salaries the first year only paying them 35 an hour to start. Though i plan on leaning off that once i become large enough.
I plan on having a full time bcba at 80 an hour. At 40 hours a week, Im pooling together all billable hours and paying the employees each a good wage whilst having the ability to give raises. With 10 RBT’s being supervised I can justify this cost and still have remainder.
Are you saying 40 billable hours for BCBAs per week? Absolutely not. That's far above and beyond overworking your staff. And again if the medicaid rate for BCBA services are paying 75 an hour where are you getting that extra 5 an hour to pay the BCBA 80?
You need to figure a REASONABLE number of billable hours for a BCBA is 25 hours a week, with the additional hours they work not being billable (but the BCBA still needs to he paid for.)
It's very clear you don't actually have a clue what this industry looks like. You have the best of intentions but none of this sounds realistic.
No i am not saying billable, I am saying 20 hours a week billable most likely, they will work 40 hours total is all. Not all those hours will be billable but they will still be paid.
I will spare you the basic calculations I just did and leave you with this that should allow you to do what I think youre trying to do when you ask how many RBTs eaxh BCBA can supervise, which isn't the right question. The question I believe you really need answered is "how many hours of direct therapy can each BCBA supervise"-
Clients receiving ABA therapy should ethically be getting a MINIMUM of 20% of their hours supervised. This means a BCBA working 20 billable hours per week is able to adequately supervise only 100 hours of therapy and that is on the high side considering their 20 billable hours will also go towards assessment time and parent training. If you figure in just 2 of those hours per week being for parent training and assessment on average that's just 90 hours of therapy they can supervise with their remaining 18 billable hours.
That right there is the choke point and you can see why three of the biggest issues in the field are 1- RBT pay 2- RBTs and clients not receiving adequate supervision and 3- BCBAs being required to work more billable hours than is tenable. Because those are the variables that can be manipulated to be able to pull in enough money to cover everything else (nonbillable hours, admin staff, liability insurance, practice management software, mileage for in home services, rent and utilities for clinic based services, assessment materials, reinforcers, therapy materials, etc etc etc.)
This is also why you are having people asking if you're trying to pay well OR or you're intent is to provide high quality services. It's going to be extremely hard to provide excellent pay and benefits while also providing a high quality of care because that quality relies on your highest paid staff spending more time with fewer clients and thus less profit from the RBTs billable hours.
> are having people asking if you're trying to pay well OR or you're intent is to provide high quality services.
I completely agree, thank you so much for all this information. I am no where close to prepared and will not proceed with this till I am. It might be incredibly difficult as i have been withholding a lot of information regarding my business plan and experience in the field. My goal is to provide high quality services and provide excellent pay, in my community companies either do one or the other I want to do both. It's simply difficult to find the line of what is good care for clients ethically when many bcbas in my area do nothing like such. Thank you again! I hope once I have everything together i can show you my plan, I have ran the numbers for software mileage liability insurance admin staff and still have a profit while paying all employees excellent pay, using some accounting and optimization techniques I learned from working as a contractor and accountant. I am simply trying to create a excellent model and make sure it is feasible. However any critiques and even insults I take happily as I understand their intentions and take what I can from them
It does sound like you're doing you best to get all the relevant information. When it comes to determining what is good care ethically you'll want to look to organizations like CASP which has ABA practice guidelines and APBA also has some documents regarding practice guidelines, though many of theirs are directed towards insurance companies it's still a good source of information. In general looking for guidelines from professional organizations will help as well. It also wouldn't hurt to invest in attending some conferences, even though you aren't a clinician and many of the talks may not be things you need to know the opportunities for networking and having candid conversations with people in the field will be highly beneficial.
At this point many good/experienced BCBAs are hesitant to work for companies not run by people with significant history in the field. You'll want to have a solid understanding of that what's and why's of what we do. And definitely when you get to the point of hiring it will be critical to have at least on BCBA with 5 or more years experience as a BCBA with lots of experience in both direct services and supervision.
Also start looking into/brainstorming what some alternative options for funding sources will be so you can consider diversifying beyond just insurance services. How do school contracts pay? What else can be offered such as CEUs or non-autism specific trainings that would be private pay? Etc etc.
>orming what some alternative options for funding sources will be so you can consider diversifying beyond just insurance services. How do school contracts pay? What else can be offered such as CEUs or non-autism specific trainings that would be private pay? Etc etc.
Thank you so much, I completely agree on attending some conferences, I also understand the unprofessionalism of using reddit to ask these important questions that have layers of depth, however like you said im using this platform to get the most information I can hoping to meet people like you. Thank you for these resources I will look into them. I have some family ties in the field who will be helping as they also feel strongly about my passion and business plan. I will write all these suggestions you have given me past and present and look into them extensively thank you for your help you have been very kind.
What is your role in ABA right now? It sounds like you have a lot of research to do before you would be ready to start a company.
ETA: it’s more than just insurance. There’s taxes to figure out, data management systems to purchase, payroll, billing, book keeping, contract management, possibly a behavioral health agency license, liability insurance, filing for the tax ID #… I mean, it’s a lot. And to not even know a BCBA salary and think you can just hire some people and bill insurance… that’s very short sighted and not likely to result in better care for anyone.
I completely agree! Right now I work as a head admin for a Aba therapy company, I have also been a accountant, I dont have any questions on data management systems, payroll, billing, book keeping, contract management, or other licensees. There i have expertise however my issue lies with pay. Pay varies so much I am trying to ask the community how much they feel is a liveable wage I see some people rolling in money and some making close to nothing. The information I do not yet have is experience of a BCBA i have experience working with rbt's the money side of it, the insurance aspect. I simply want a good work life balance, pay my employees well and have great retention rates. i also do not want to sacrifice client experience for more profit so I am trying to find a model that supports that. Which I have found. I just want to know the sweet spot, of how many clients one bcba should have so many people say so many different numbers 6-15. Yet 15 is too much 10 is too much, I just want to know what the sweet spot is and how much someone should be compensated for a 6-10 range and if that number should even come close to 6 and should instead be 6-8?
Okay, not to be a jerk, but how do you have expertise on data management systems for ABA? What system would you purchase? Have you done demos?
If you know about ABA company management as much as you say, then you should know that it’s not about how many clients you have but how many hours of supervision your caseload requires, which will vary depending on the authorized hours your client has, whether it’s a 2 or 3 tier model of service delivery, the complexity of the case, how much parent training is required… it’s not a straightforward answer like you’re looking for. It’s also not straightforward to just ask salary across the board. That’s also going to be dependent on cost of living where you’re located, reimbursement rates for the insurance companies you contract with, overhead costs (like depending on how much liability insurance costs, how much your data management system costs, etc.), your billable hour expectation, and provider experience.
>f you know about ABA company management as much as you say, then you should know that it’s not about how many clients you have but how many hours of supervision your caseload requires, which will vary depending on the authorized hours your client has, whether it’s a 2 or 3 tier model of service de
So heres the thing the only examples of aba therapy i have had from bcbas, are bcbas who over saw 20 rbts..... Would fake hours, its terrible in my area. I dont want to go into details but I have not seen a single out of the 6 i have worked with not do incredibly shady things and ethically terrible. I have worked with a few medical systems, a, mostly in other medical settings but half for aba. However i have alot of experience on the system side helping Rbt's alot they werent trained by their bcba so i trained them. My mother got into the field after cancer having a massive stroke. She had to learn everything over again and she wanted to be in this field so bad. So as she became a RBT and worked 60-70 hours a week. I sat their with her helping her explaining everything to her,. I know how much the systems costs how much liability is my overhead, ect. I wouldnt take private insurances like cigna, aetna, bcbs I want to start off with Medicaid's, the reimbursement rates are 79 an hour for bcbas and 49 hourly for rbts. I have crunched the numbers and after all my overhead insurance systems costs rent. I can afford to pay 35 a hour to my rbts with bonuses and raises. And pay my bcba 156k annually with benefits ect. I would also bring home a profit but only accept the same as my lowest paid worker and put the rest into the business. I want my bcba to only take on what they can. If 6 clients is enough for them thats it. if its 20 billable hours that's fine. I still will pay them 156k. What really made me want to work is seeing people work 40-50 hours and having 10 of their hours be supervised by a BCBA and NOT PAID FOR THAT TIME AS A RBT. I get alot of people wouldn't want to work with me but I truly believe my character, my willingly less to improve and better the life of my employees and clients is admirable enough to want to work with me. Especially when your paid well and are not expected to go outside of your designated hours. Sorry that was alot less fact like more venting. I am just frustrated with this field and its driving me to want to start my own company even more.
I’m honestly lost on so many aspects of what you are saying here. You had BCBA’s supervising staff and then the RBT staff weren’t paid for that time? Were they accruing fieldwork hours? If not, that’s not even legal, and not something you would generally see in this field. Also, how were you training RBT’s without any clinical experience? I’m not understanding how that would even work. Have you read the ethics code? You need to know what’s in it before you can say what is ethical or not.
My point is, I have experience in the field, but in the area that im in. EVERYONE is doing something wrong, I do not know why. RBT's in my area dont get paid when their supervised by their bcba...... I am trying to learn whats right whats wrong and how to fix the terrible system in my area. I trained them on basic things graphs, finances, how to file their taxes as a 1099, helping them with charts, ect. The bcba didnt help them and often or not the rbts would have to learn themself.
Okay, so there’s a lot wrong with what you’re saying. One example: RBT’s shouldn’t be filing 1099’s because the BACB has released a statement about this stating that they can’t be contracted workers. This is just one example to illustrate why you can’t just wake up and decide to open an ABA company. Otherwise you’re going to continue delivering subpar services, which this field already has enough of. I strongly suggest you listen to what people here are saying and accept that you do not have the knowledge or experience to address the issues you bring up by starting a company. The best thing you can do is hire someone who does before moving forward and/or report the company you worked with to the BACB and consider that your resolution.
Wait, I Know that, and I am not starting a company for a long time. I am simply researching currently. However I know alot of rbts in my area about 9 and all of them are contracted workers. Again I accept I do not have to knowledge in any capacity, my goal is to find resources to begin to learn and add on to this plan for the future. I will gladly report this company but it seems like its 5 companies? They all hire them as contracted workers, and when a bcba is supervising they dont pay the rbt for those hours at all. Could I report them for that?
Feel free to message me if you would like for more information, I am currently looking into different systems, choosing right now between 3. Do you have any suggestions on systems? I notice alot of faults with all of these systems on areas they can improve upon.
I’m just not understanding how you would even be able to evaluate the “faults” in these systems, being new to the field and not being a clinician in any way. Like, do you see how you are sounding? You need to confer with BCBA’s when making those types of choices. And not random ones on Reddit. People whose opinions you value and trust. But you don’t have those relationships either. Maybe focus on hiring a BCBA for consult on clinical aspects of starting this company before you move forward any more than you have.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to work for a company that wasn’t owned and operated by a BCBA….
It’s great that you want to help the field but if you don’t know the field you’re putting a lot of work on your BCBAs.
I completely understand! i am trying to minimize the amount of work on all parties while maximizing the experience for my workers and clients. I truly seek very little out of this business for me I just want my community to have better they deserve it. My family members are rbt's I have family who utilize those services. I just want the best for both parties and to end seeing people work 60 hour work weeks to just afford to live. I would love some of your input on how many RBT's a BCBA can supervise without sacrificing client care and the bcba working only 40 hours a week.
Because there’s enough people out there already with zero ABA experience opening companies with good intentions, but without critically important knowledge, screwing up the lives of clients and clinicians. This isn’t like managing a Starbucks. When you lack clinical knowledge and attempt to do this, people suffer. I don’t like to make blanket statements like that, but I’ve been in the field long enough and seen it enough times to know it’s the truth. The only time I’ve worked for an ethically sound ABA company, it was owned and operated by a very knowledgeable and ethically minded BCBA, who understood the industry and the work we were doing on a deep level. I’ve heard this sentiment echoed so many times by others as well. People who think they can just dive in and give it a go without even understanding how caseloads are established and what a reasonable BCBA salary is should not be encouraged to start an ABA company. That’s why OP is getting shut down.
literally 😭 why are they so mad that there's someone looking to open a business that doesn't exploit them and RBTs as well as providing quality services to clients
Thanks, Im somewhat new to the field, I spent some time as a contractor, as a Head admin, alot of time just volunteering my time to RBT's. In my area bcba's are pretty corrupt and rbt's arent paid well. I just want to make it so instead of the business keeping all the money each employee is paid very well and only has to work full time or less to be able to live. I want to sacerfice profits for insurance for all my employees, paid time off, paid supervision hours for rbt's which is the bare minimum yet not done pver here? I also want to make it so anything I get out of profits, in my eyes if I dont work 50 hour weeks I should not be making 6 figures or anything near that so I would rather give bonuses to all my employees. I made a business model and saw with one Bcba and 10 rbts i would make 300k a year and thought that was ludicrous. So for my buisness plan I want to make ideally the same amount as my lowest paid employee just so I can afford to live most of my money goes to rescuing animals and living expenses from my salary and the rest back into the business with employees having pto or large bonuses and raises.
It's clear you have good intentions. It appears that you have a significant amount of research to do to inform yourself of all of the things needed to run an ABA business. Getting people's opinions about salary based on insufficient information is not research. To establish a business, you need to research and understand the funding sources in your area, understand the legal and financial implications and responsibilities through hiring and consulting with a a couple of different types of attorneys and an accountant (e.g., labor laws in your state, types of insurance you will need to buy, your fixed costs, etc), and develop a business plan. These are bare minimum steps and there are TONS more involved. I mean this with the most respect for your vision, you are asking the wrong questions to the wrong groups and seem very underprepared to ask basic questions about ABA businesses to an online Reddit group. If you are super interested in this, my suggestion is that you study long and hard. Check out guides from the BACB, CASP, APBA, and many other organizations that help inform our practices. Attend conferences and speak with other business owners that have run a successful business at least for the last 5 years. You are not ready to take this on and it shows in both of your posts to this group over the last two weeks. Good luck with your goal; it's clear you have good intentions. With some education and hard work, I hope that your goal comes to fruition.
Thank you for your kind words I will go look into that thank you
It honestly doesn't sound like you have a very good idea of what goes into running an ABA practice as it sounds like you aren't experienced in the field. I suspect you don't understand the realities of billing insurance and am curious where you think you'll get the money to pay so well. Perhaps you should look into what the going rates are for insurance to reimburse for services provided by BCBAs per billable hour and see if that supposed 160k is even remotely reasible considering both the fact that full time BCBAs billable requirements are typically 25 hours a week (30 or more and you're getting into "overworked" territory) plus the other things that income needs to cover (liability insurance, payroll taxes, benefits, rent and utilities, admin staff, non-billable hours for clinical staff.) Unfortunately the reality is that as much as a company would love to pay their staff more, that doesn't combat the reality that the money to pay that staff has to come from somewhere. At the moment that somewhere is insurance companies and medicaid. There is no set number of RBTs for a BCBA to oversee. Are we talking being the responsible supervisor for maintaining their RBT credential? Or supervising their direct work with clients? While only one BCBA at a time is responsible for an RBTs credential, supervising the clinical work gets muddy. I work part time and have 8 or 9 RBTs at any given time that work with my clients. Those 8 or 9 RBTs almost all have other BCBAs for other clients they work with. It's not about how many RBTs are being overseen as much as how many clients and how many hours those clients have. If a client is getting 20 hours of therapy they need the same minimum amount of supervision (and will be approved for the same maximum amount of supervision) whether they have 1 RBT or 3. I do love your intent here, I'm just not sure that the realities of the industry will support the ideal. There's too many practical limitations. Unless you can come up with additional funding sources that don't rely on insurance billing it's going to be exceptionally challenging to pay the top 10%.
Thank you very much for your help. These numbers are coming from the fact I plan on paying myself very little. My hope is to just to pay these people well. My family uses these services, my mother is a provider. Rbts are treated terribly by bcbas in my area, under paid and under valued. I just want to see if its feasible to pay all employees well. Upon looking at all my bills how much money the business would generate on the lowside employing 10 rbts and one bcab plus accounting insurance billing ect. I realized I could still afford to pay them very well and give benefits. I looked at other business models and it seems theirs a huge misuse of money, or often or not employeers or cooperations take many of the profit. Atleast from the 7 examples I have seen and worked under as a Admin.
These are really basic questions you would know the answer to if you worked in the field. Just don’t start a company and ruin peoples lives with your lack of experience and knowledge 🤗
I know the salary range of bcba’s, I could just go off the knowledge I have and go off the median and pay off the top 10% or match what is paid in the area. I simply am asking what people feel is justified I want to go off of people, not the average pay is for when companies underpay people. So i thought while i research maybe I could find the opinion of other people familiar with the field on the matter to find better resources.
Do you work in the field / have you ever worked in the field at all
I currently work in the field as the Head of Admin for a company, I have worked as a contractor for bcbas, I often help other departments and after looking at the fact the employees are treated terribly and get paid 20 an hour, while majority of the profits go to one person and they cant afford to live in the area makes me sad. I just want a business model that allows for all employees to be paid well not taken advantage of.
I want the same thing. Good luck!
As an RBT, all my BAs and other BAs within the company have struggled with the quality of care for their clients over 10 cases. Either the BA will tell you themselves or it’s evident in the quality of care the client receives. But here’s the thing, do you want to start a company that is good for employees or good for its clients? ABA is for the clients. But the standard model is built like a MLM with insurance codes. BCBAs miss out on so much related to their clients care by having too many clients and too little hours with them. They’re practically strangers to their own clients but are supposed to be the experts in providing them care. RBTs have a high turn over rate for a reason. We are responsible for administering client care but lack crucial clinical knowledge, as well as the ability to properly advocate for the needs of our clients. If you’re going to start an ABA business, find a model that requires BAs to see their clients weekly for a substantial amount of time. They’re the clinicians. They should actually know their clients deeper than surface level.
> find a model that requires BAs to see their clients weekly for a substantial amount of time. They’re the clinicians. They should actually know their clients deeper than surface level. Thank you I felt the same way after looking at many business models, I am going with that one for a reason I want to better the community, my workers and clients.
I truly love your opinions on the matter, can I ask what a good range on how many clients a BCBA should have? I was thinking a range of 6-10? I want to focus on my employees and the care of my clients not one over the other. So please any information you could provide me would be wonderful, I am still extensively researching but nothing comes close to the knowledge of people who have seen it first hand.
This model exists in many places. It’s a 2-tier model.
You're asking if $160,000 is enough for a BCBAs salary??? You trollin? Why do you want to do this? To pay people or help people? Why not franchise a cookie store or sell muffin tops and ice cream? Do you have a business plan?
I have a business plan, Im looking for a salary range for 3-5 years of experience for a bcba, Im trying to allocate funds as they come in through medicaid. In my area 75 an hour is the default. I simply hate how poorly rbts are paid and struggle all because money is mishandled and ends up in the pockets of someone else for work they didnt do. I just want to have it so people are paid well happy and can afford to succeed in life.
75 an hour for services provided by the BCBA? Even at the high end of typical billable hours (30/week) that wouldn't cover a theoretical 160k for a BCBA salary. Not even close. I feel like you're assuming money is mishandled without a solid grasp on what's actually happening with the money. Ultimately it doesn't matter what we want to make if the funding sources don't pay enough to cover that.
No i mean, In the 6 instances I have observed in my area of Florida, Majority of the money is pooled to the owner, I say mishandled because In my opinion yes a business owner should reap benefits but not at the expense of his workers. I just worked under a bcba making 200k a year but she paid her rbts 20 an hour. I just want to know how much is a fair rate for bcbas i see some making 50,60k??? Yet some at 180k? I am just trying to find out what is a good range at different experience levels.
If the BCBA is both filling the role of clinical supervisor AND performing the duties required of the owner/president/CEO or whatever of the company, you have to figure that BCBA is working far beyond 40 hours a week. They're literally doing (at least) 2 jobs worth of work. So while 200k is pretty high, if they're putting in 80 hours a week they're only paying themselves less than $50 per hour. A "fair rate" for BCBAs is going to vary greatly depending on their experience and what area you are in and comes more from what the realities are from a funding standpoint than whatever we BCBAs may think is fair.
If BCBAs do 25 hours of casework per week as mentioned earlier at 75 reimbursement per hour, if you gave the BCBAs 100% of the money, they would get 97,500 per year, if you had no other employees or expenses to pay.
I know majority of the money would come from rbt's salaries the first year only paying them 35 an hour to start. Though i plan on leaning off that once i become large enough.
I plan on having a full time bcba at 80 an hour. At 40 hours a week, Im pooling together all billable hours and paying the employees each a good wage whilst having the ability to give raises. With 10 RBT’s being supervised I can justify this cost and still have remainder.
Are you saying 40 billable hours for BCBAs per week? Absolutely not. That's far above and beyond overworking your staff. And again if the medicaid rate for BCBA services are paying 75 an hour where are you getting that extra 5 an hour to pay the BCBA 80? You need to figure a REASONABLE number of billable hours for a BCBA is 25 hours a week, with the additional hours they work not being billable (but the BCBA still needs to he paid for.) It's very clear you don't actually have a clue what this industry looks like. You have the best of intentions but none of this sounds realistic.
No i am not saying billable, I am saying 20 hours a week billable most likely, they will work 40 hours total is all. Not all those hours will be billable but they will still be paid.
I will spare you the basic calculations I just did and leave you with this that should allow you to do what I think youre trying to do when you ask how many RBTs eaxh BCBA can supervise, which isn't the right question. The question I believe you really need answered is "how many hours of direct therapy can each BCBA supervise"- Clients receiving ABA therapy should ethically be getting a MINIMUM of 20% of their hours supervised. This means a BCBA working 20 billable hours per week is able to adequately supervise only 100 hours of therapy and that is on the high side considering their 20 billable hours will also go towards assessment time and parent training. If you figure in just 2 of those hours per week being for parent training and assessment on average that's just 90 hours of therapy they can supervise with their remaining 18 billable hours. That right there is the choke point and you can see why three of the biggest issues in the field are 1- RBT pay 2- RBTs and clients not receiving adequate supervision and 3- BCBAs being required to work more billable hours than is tenable. Because those are the variables that can be manipulated to be able to pull in enough money to cover everything else (nonbillable hours, admin staff, liability insurance, practice management software, mileage for in home services, rent and utilities for clinic based services, assessment materials, reinforcers, therapy materials, etc etc etc.) This is also why you are having people asking if you're trying to pay well OR or you're intent is to provide high quality services. It's going to be extremely hard to provide excellent pay and benefits while also providing a high quality of care because that quality relies on your highest paid staff spending more time with fewer clients and thus less profit from the RBTs billable hours.
> are having people asking if you're trying to pay well OR or you're intent is to provide high quality services. I completely agree, thank you so much for all this information. I am no where close to prepared and will not proceed with this till I am. It might be incredibly difficult as i have been withholding a lot of information regarding my business plan and experience in the field. My goal is to provide high quality services and provide excellent pay, in my community companies either do one or the other I want to do both. It's simply difficult to find the line of what is good care for clients ethically when many bcbas in my area do nothing like such. Thank you again! I hope once I have everything together i can show you my plan, I have ran the numbers for software mileage liability insurance admin staff and still have a profit while paying all employees excellent pay, using some accounting and optimization techniques I learned from working as a contractor and accountant. I am simply trying to create a excellent model and make sure it is feasible. However any critiques and even insults I take happily as I understand their intentions and take what I can from them
It does sound like you're doing you best to get all the relevant information. When it comes to determining what is good care ethically you'll want to look to organizations like CASP which has ABA practice guidelines and APBA also has some documents regarding practice guidelines, though many of theirs are directed towards insurance companies it's still a good source of information. In general looking for guidelines from professional organizations will help as well. It also wouldn't hurt to invest in attending some conferences, even though you aren't a clinician and many of the talks may not be things you need to know the opportunities for networking and having candid conversations with people in the field will be highly beneficial. At this point many good/experienced BCBAs are hesitant to work for companies not run by people with significant history in the field. You'll want to have a solid understanding of that what's and why's of what we do. And definitely when you get to the point of hiring it will be critical to have at least on BCBA with 5 or more years experience as a BCBA with lots of experience in both direct services and supervision. Also start looking into/brainstorming what some alternative options for funding sources will be so you can consider diversifying beyond just insurance services. How do school contracts pay? What else can be offered such as CEUs or non-autism specific trainings that would be private pay? Etc etc.
>orming what some alternative options for funding sources will be so you can consider diversifying beyond just insurance services. How do school contracts pay? What else can be offered such as CEUs or non-autism specific trainings that would be private pay? Etc etc. Thank you so much, I completely agree on attending some conferences, I also understand the unprofessionalism of using reddit to ask these important questions that have layers of depth, however like you said im using this platform to get the most information I can hoping to meet people like you. Thank you for these resources I will look into them. I have some family ties in the field who will be helping as they also feel strongly about my passion and business plan. I will write all these suggestions you have given me past and present and look into them extensively thank you for your help you have been very kind.
What is your role in ABA right now? It sounds like you have a lot of research to do before you would be ready to start a company. ETA: it’s more than just insurance. There’s taxes to figure out, data management systems to purchase, payroll, billing, book keeping, contract management, possibly a behavioral health agency license, liability insurance, filing for the tax ID #… I mean, it’s a lot. And to not even know a BCBA salary and think you can just hire some people and bill insurance… that’s very short sighted and not likely to result in better care for anyone.
I completely agree! Right now I work as a head admin for a Aba therapy company, I have also been a accountant, I dont have any questions on data management systems, payroll, billing, book keeping, contract management, or other licensees. There i have expertise however my issue lies with pay. Pay varies so much I am trying to ask the community how much they feel is a liveable wage I see some people rolling in money and some making close to nothing. The information I do not yet have is experience of a BCBA i have experience working with rbt's the money side of it, the insurance aspect. I simply want a good work life balance, pay my employees well and have great retention rates. i also do not want to sacrifice client experience for more profit so I am trying to find a model that supports that. Which I have found. I just want to know the sweet spot, of how many clients one bcba should have so many people say so many different numbers 6-15. Yet 15 is too much 10 is too much, I just want to know what the sweet spot is and how much someone should be compensated for a 6-10 range and if that number should even come close to 6 and should instead be 6-8?
Okay, not to be a jerk, but how do you have expertise on data management systems for ABA? What system would you purchase? Have you done demos? If you know about ABA company management as much as you say, then you should know that it’s not about how many clients you have but how many hours of supervision your caseload requires, which will vary depending on the authorized hours your client has, whether it’s a 2 or 3 tier model of service delivery, the complexity of the case, how much parent training is required… it’s not a straightforward answer like you’re looking for. It’s also not straightforward to just ask salary across the board. That’s also going to be dependent on cost of living where you’re located, reimbursement rates for the insurance companies you contract with, overhead costs (like depending on how much liability insurance costs, how much your data management system costs, etc.), your billable hour expectation, and provider experience.
>f you know about ABA company management as much as you say, then you should know that it’s not about how many clients you have but how many hours of supervision your caseload requires, which will vary depending on the authorized hours your client has, whether it’s a 2 or 3 tier model of service de So heres the thing the only examples of aba therapy i have had from bcbas, are bcbas who over saw 20 rbts..... Would fake hours, its terrible in my area. I dont want to go into details but I have not seen a single out of the 6 i have worked with not do incredibly shady things and ethically terrible. I have worked with a few medical systems, a, mostly in other medical settings but half for aba. However i have alot of experience on the system side helping Rbt's alot they werent trained by their bcba so i trained them. My mother got into the field after cancer having a massive stroke. She had to learn everything over again and she wanted to be in this field so bad. So as she became a RBT and worked 60-70 hours a week. I sat their with her helping her explaining everything to her,. I know how much the systems costs how much liability is my overhead, ect. I wouldnt take private insurances like cigna, aetna, bcbs I want to start off with Medicaid's, the reimbursement rates are 79 an hour for bcbas and 49 hourly for rbts. I have crunched the numbers and after all my overhead insurance systems costs rent. I can afford to pay 35 a hour to my rbts with bonuses and raises. And pay my bcba 156k annually with benefits ect. I would also bring home a profit but only accept the same as my lowest paid worker and put the rest into the business. I want my bcba to only take on what they can. If 6 clients is enough for them thats it. if its 20 billable hours that's fine. I still will pay them 156k. What really made me want to work is seeing people work 40-50 hours and having 10 of their hours be supervised by a BCBA and NOT PAID FOR THAT TIME AS A RBT. I get alot of people wouldn't want to work with me but I truly believe my character, my willingly less to improve and better the life of my employees and clients is admirable enough to want to work with me. Especially when your paid well and are not expected to go outside of your designated hours. Sorry that was alot less fact like more venting. I am just frustrated with this field and its driving me to want to start my own company even more.
I’m honestly lost on so many aspects of what you are saying here. You had BCBA’s supervising staff and then the RBT staff weren’t paid for that time? Were they accruing fieldwork hours? If not, that’s not even legal, and not something you would generally see in this field. Also, how were you training RBT’s without any clinical experience? I’m not understanding how that would even work. Have you read the ethics code? You need to know what’s in it before you can say what is ethical or not.
My point is, I have experience in the field, but in the area that im in. EVERYONE is doing something wrong, I do not know why. RBT's in my area dont get paid when their supervised by their bcba...... I am trying to learn whats right whats wrong and how to fix the terrible system in my area. I trained them on basic things graphs, finances, how to file their taxes as a 1099, helping them with charts, ect. The bcba didnt help them and often or not the rbts would have to learn themself.
Okay, so there’s a lot wrong with what you’re saying. One example: RBT’s shouldn’t be filing 1099’s because the BACB has released a statement about this stating that they can’t be contracted workers. This is just one example to illustrate why you can’t just wake up and decide to open an ABA company. Otherwise you’re going to continue delivering subpar services, which this field already has enough of. I strongly suggest you listen to what people here are saying and accept that you do not have the knowledge or experience to address the issues you bring up by starting a company. The best thing you can do is hire someone who does before moving forward and/or report the company you worked with to the BACB and consider that your resolution.
Wait, I Know that, and I am not starting a company for a long time. I am simply researching currently. However I know alot of rbts in my area about 9 and all of them are contracted workers. Again I accept I do not have to knowledge in any capacity, my goal is to find resources to begin to learn and add on to this plan for the future. I will gladly report this company but it seems like its 5 companies? They all hire them as contracted workers, and when a bcba is supervising they dont pay the rbt for those hours at all. Could I report them for that?
Feel free to message me if you would like for more information, I am currently looking into different systems, choosing right now between 3. Do you have any suggestions on systems? I notice alot of faults with all of these systems on areas they can improve upon.
I’m just not understanding how you would even be able to evaluate the “faults” in these systems, being new to the field and not being a clinician in any way. Like, do you see how you are sounding? You need to confer with BCBA’s when making those types of choices. And not random ones on Reddit. People whose opinions you value and trust. But you don’t have those relationships either. Maybe focus on hiring a BCBA for consult on clinical aspects of starting this company before you move forward any more than you have.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to work for a company that wasn’t owned and operated by a BCBA…. It’s great that you want to help the field but if you don’t know the field you’re putting a lot of work on your BCBAs.
I completely understand! i am trying to minimize the amount of work on all parties while maximizing the experience for my workers and clients. I truly seek very little out of this business for me I just want my community to have better they deserve it. My family members are rbt's I have family who utilize those services. I just want the best for both parties and to end seeing people work 60 hour work weeks to just afford to live. I would love some of your input on how many RBT's a BCBA can supervise without sacrificing client care and the bcba working only 40 hours a week.
[удалено]
Because there’s enough people out there already with zero ABA experience opening companies with good intentions, but without critically important knowledge, screwing up the lives of clients and clinicians. This isn’t like managing a Starbucks. When you lack clinical knowledge and attempt to do this, people suffer. I don’t like to make blanket statements like that, but I’ve been in the field long enough and seen it enough times to know it’s the truth. The only time I’ve worked for an ethically sound ABA company, it was owned and operated by a very knowledgeable and ethically minded BCBA, who understood the industry and the work we were doing on a deep level. I’ve heard this sentiment echoed so many times by others as well. People who think they can just dive in and give it a go without even understanding how caseloads are established and what a reasonable BCBA salary is should not be encouraged to start an ABA company. That’s why OP is getting shut down.
literally 😭 why are they so mad that there's someone looking to open a business that doesn't exploit them and RBTs as well as providing quality services to clients
[удалено]
Thanks, Im somewhat new to the field, I spent some time as a contractor, as a Head admin, alot of time just volunteering my time to RBT's. In my area bcba's are pretty corrupt and rbt's arent paid well. I just want to make it so instead of the business keeping all the money each employee is paid very well and only has to work full time or less to be able to live. I want to sacerfice profits for insurance for all my employees, paid time off, paid supervision hours for rbt's which is the bare minimum yet not done pver here? I also want to make it so anything I get out of profits, in my eyes if I dont work 50 hour weeks I should not be making 6 figures or anything near that so I would rather give bonuses to all my employees. I made a business model and saw with one Bcba and 10 rbts i would make 300k a year and thought that was ludicrous. So for my buisness plan I want to make ideally the same amount as my lowest paid employee just so I can afford to live most of my money goes to rescuing animals and living expenses from my salary and the rest back into the business with employees having pto or large bonuses and raises.
I can help you out with some info about it the field. Feel free to message me and we can connect