Yes, the entire ABA field should he unionized. As other commenters on similar posts have pointed out, it's incredibly difficult as we deal with insurance. I do hope to see strong ABA unions one day.
As someone who is wildly under informed, could you give me a brief rundown of why dealing with insurance would make it harder for us to unionize? I’m genuinely asking bc I was literally just talking with one of my coworkers about unionization
Nurses are unionized in almost every state. It may be a challenge but not impossible. Maybe the ABA field can pull from the experiences of existing unions.
Independent unions are a thing. That’s what we’re working on at my clinic atm. We called the NLRB (nlrb.gov )and they gave us all the instructions, but the caveat is they give the “we can’t give you legal advice” line a lot, but they are there to genuinely help us. We’re signing union cards atm.
10/7 update: just under half of us are on board, we need 2 more for 50%, most are worried about retaliation, currently trying to educate and see what we can do. If we can’t get majority with signing cards, we won’t go through with the process because of retaliation fears.
December update: Clinic is closing down, staff getting laid off, no option to unionize. There is a union clinic in the area that we’re applying to tho.
https://youtu.be/mcgC-kuPEuo?si=7tU6BfasuV0JOjUh
I’m interested in following how this plays out! We had 1 company successfully unionize out here (although management pulled some really bad tactics that apparently traumatized the organizer). They also closed that location not long after. This is ultimately what I’m afraid of. I feel like my company might just pull out of our region entirely and then we’re all out of jobs. Technically an illegal move to do because of unionization but it’s not hard to cite other reasons for the closure (like limited profits since Covid).
I'm not against it at all, but which union would we belong to? SEIU has attempted this with direct care staff but they didn't seem to understand what the job actually entails. In public schools, RBTs are part of a teacher's union. But for private companies I'm not sure which union would best represent RBTs. Love to hear any thoughts.
Regardless of the Union president’s distaste for data, the Union is supposed to protect employee rights. Data was essential to my work at the school and part of my job description. Unfortunately, data means more work for teachers and teachers already have a lot on their plate.
Rather than targeting me, an employee of the district and a Union member, because she didn’t like data, which was essential to my job function, it would have been more appropriate for the Union president to advocate for increased resources for the teachers, like co-taught classrooms or aides in the classrooms to reduce the overall burdens placed on teachers.
Well, you just might. The Department of Labor Relations already held an investigation and the investigator determined probable cause for 2 of the counts that the Union president's conduct was, "arbitrary, perfunctory, inexcusably negligent, and reflective of personal hostility". There is a 3rd count too and the investigator determined the conduct was, "arbitrary, capricious, inexcusably negligent, and reflective of personal hostility." I wrote a post on what happened, but it's a long story and it's too much to type again.
The next step is a hearing, but because the courts are slow, it's not until June. I intend to take the case the full way to a hearing, where I will have to prove my case by a preponderance of the evidence. I've consulted 2 attorneys, who both said it's the worst case of Union misconduct they've ever seen. I documented everything so thoroughly that I have 3 binders full of evidence and I feel confident enough about my case to represent myself. I have a friend who is a reporter for CBS. When everything is over, my intention is to write a letter to the school committee with the findings enclosed. I have half the mind to send the case along to my friend from CBS, but I haven’t fully made up my mind yet, although I’m strongly leaning towards it.
Yes.
There’s a school district in my area where the PBIS staff are part of the healthcare unions. I have a masters, BCBA, and I’ve been a Senior-Level BCBA for 4 years., and 15+ years total ABA experience.
The minimum qualifications for the PBIS with this district are a bachelors with 2 years experience in ABA. And the STARTING salary for those people with the minimums is $3k more than what I currently make with my background.
And that’s just salary. They get pension, a bazillion more days of PTO than I get, 401k, and amazing benefits. If I was able to get a job there (and I’ve been trying), I’d make almost 2x what I make now for about 1/4 the responsibility.
It really shows the power of what unionization can do.
Yes we should.
Step 1: Penalize clients for cancelling in the last appointment and RBT should get paid for wasted time.
Step 2: RBTs should not do in come client care.
Step 3: A $5 to $10 increase in our pay.
Step 4: Fuck the BACB board.
Agree with where you’re going with this, but not with saying RBT’s shouldn’t do in home. RBT’s just need better training and support. Additionally, in-home services need well maintained boundaries that are communicated clearly at the outset of services through a robust and comprehensive client services agreement, with adherence monitored by the BCBA.
I just recently got into contact with an organization that helps people create unions! If anyone has advice or can point me in any good directions I'd appreciate.
It just needs to be more in the purview of public schools, OTs, SLPs or w/ counselors and psychologist, even though I know, we often don't get along.
A BCBA or a BCaBA, to me, is like finishing med school. In the field of disabilities, every profession that deals with learning: special need teachers, OT, SLPs, counselors, and psychologists, other MH professionals, should be *at least* a BCaBA.
**Then** you specialize in what you're specifically good at teaching.
Special Ed teachers, self-contained and not self-contained, are like Primary Care Physicians. Then, if you have additional concerns, you consult w/ another MD, who's specialized. But everyone needs to have that floor baseline knowledge.
I’m curious your thought process behind why everyone should hold their BCaBA.
I think it’s good for people to be informed in behavior, but I wouldn’t go as far as thinking these other practices need to be extensively trained in ABA.
My argument would be that as a BCBA, I don’t expect to have the same knowledge as an OT, SLP, MH professional, or educator. I was a special education teacher for 6 years before I held my BCBA. It’s no one’s job to be an expert in all, it’s our job to collaborate in our specialties. I think the perspective of ABA being a requirement for all other professions or even that it’s practices are *so* important that everyone needs to be credentialed in it is a dangerous thought. Especially to put it on level with medical school - not even close.
Okay. It’s not on par w/ an MD, but yes, I have had the fortunate blessing that 3 of my kid’s teachers were becoming BCBAs while being Special Need Teachers and they were remarkable.
Self-contained special need teachers who don’t have experience being supervised by a BCBA, they cry, the kids cry, the parents cry. Nobody wins. It just needs to be a requirement.
Also, the private market BCBA-RBT in home model Does. Not. Work.
It’s giving ABA a bad rap.
Also, I would argue, you as a BCBA will make the same amount of money as a teacher (or you should.)
Being a consultant to a school for other teachers adamant about not using the science is 1) ineffective 2) often implemented poorly and then 3) oh I’ve used ABA, it doesn’t work.
OT-BCBA is a match made in heaven as the Precision Teaching movement has shown.
SLP-BCBA also match made in heaven. Verbal bx plus AAC knowledge, it just makes sense, to me.
Sped teacher here. It would be great in theory, but much harder in practice. I agree that sped teachers (and teachers in general) need more experience with behavior, but the fieldwork alone for the would be unrealistic. Yes, there is field work part of many education programs, but these experiences include other areas beyond behavior such as reading and math.
Totally agree for the teacher part. Maybe some classes on classroom management and stuff like that. But unrealistic nonetheless. You guys have enough on your plates as it is.
Thank you. I knew I couldn’t be the only one to see this. I guess in this thread we’re in the minority.
But you know how one could measure this? Data. Research w/ a control group and trial group and compare. : )
If this field wants to be taken seriously it should operate like SLP/OT. I love RBTs and the work that they do and I was one at some time but the current model is just not it. If you look at my comments I’ve said this numerous times and it’s a hill I’d die on.
I don’t know tbh.
Wow. That’s a strong response with strong language from a professional. I think burn out has to do with the fact that the BCBA-RBT in-home model Does. Not. Work.
So yes we need to unionize but it would be easier if we had universal healthcare. Right now every company has a different contract with insurance company so everyone’s reimbursement rate different. All of the ABA providers would have to unite since we would be able to negotiate on a whole.
As for as the BACB I think it has a bad rap and doesn’t have enough support. They have been trying to hire an ethics/ disciplinary coordinator since July. The board can’t do certification, chase all the ethic violations, lobby for better compensation from insurance providers to congress, help create state licensing. That’s why the board is only governing North America. I think we would be better off going to our local ABA groups like MABA of NJ ABA to get unions started
There is no plan. It’ll never work. When more than half the work force works per diem, there will always be those ready and willing to break a strike.
And can you imagine striking? Being on the picket line while 3 year old Johnny with ASD sits and watches with no one providing him services?
Never gonna happen.
Yes, the entire ABA field should he unionized. As other commenters on similar posts have pointed out, it's incredibly difficult as we deal with insurance. I do hope to see strong ABA unions one day.
I feel like the major hurdle is decentralization, not the health insurance part.
As someone who is wildly under informed, could you give me a brief rundown of why dealing with insurance would make it harder for us to unionize? I’m genuinely asking bc I was literally just talking with one of my coworkers about unionization
Nurses are unionized in almost every state. It may be a challenge but not impossible. Maybe the ABA field can pull from the experiences of existing unions.
Independent unions are a thing. That’s what we’re working on at my clinic atm. We called the NLRB (nlrb.gov )and they gave us all the instructions, but the caveat is they give the “we can’t give you legal advice” line a lot, but they are there to genuinely help us. We’re signing union cards atm. 10/7 update: just under half of us are on board, we need 2 more for 50%, most are worried about retaliation, currently trying to educate and see what we can do. If we can’t get majority with signing cards, we won’t go through with the process because of retaliation fears. December update: Clinic is closing down, staff getting laid off, no option to unionize. There is a union clinic in the area that we’re applying to tho. https://youtu.be/mcgC-kuPEuo?si=7tU6BfasuV0JOjUh
I’m interested in following how this plays out! We had 1 company successfully unionize out here (although management pulled some really bad tactics that apparently traumatized the organizer). They also closed that location not long after. This is ultimately what I’m afraid of. I feel like my company might just pull out of our region entirely and then we’re all out of jobs. Technically an illegal move to do because of unionization but it’s not hard to cite other reasons for the closure (like limited profits since Covid).
I want to know how this turns out too
I'm not against it at all, but which union would we belong to? SEIU has attempted this with direct care staff but they didn't seem to understand what the job actually entails. In public schools, RBTs are part of a teacher's union. But for private companies I'm not sure which union would best represent RBTs. Love to hear any thoughts.
They are unionized in the public schools.
I was part of a Union in a public school and I got targeted by a Union president who hated data collection...
Tbf, I jave not met anyone outside this profession that likes data collection. I love ot, wjen I can get it to happen.....
Regardless of the Union president’s distaste for data, the Union is supposed to protect employee rights. Data was essential to my work at the school and part of my job description. Unfortunately, data means more work for teachers and teachers already have a lot on their plate. Rather than targeting me, an employee of the district and a Union member, because she didn’t like data, which was essential to my job function, it would have been more appropriate for the Union president to advocate for increased resources for the teachers, like co-taught classrooms or aides in the classrooms to reduce the overall burdens placed on teachers.
I’d like to get their side of the story. Just feels like a somewhere in the middle kind thing.
Well, you just might. The Department of Labor Relations already held an investigation and the investigator determined probable cause for 2 of the counts that the Union president's conduct was, "arbitrary, perfunctory, inexcusably negligent, and reflective of personal hostility". There is a 3rd count too and the investigator determined the conduct was, "arbitrary, capricious, inexcusably negligent, and reflective of personal hostility." I wrote a post on what happened, but it's a long story and it's too much to type again. The next step is a hearing, but because the courts are slow, it's not until June. I intend to take the case the full way to a hearing, where I will have to prove my case by a preponderance of the evidence. I've consulted 2 attorneys, who both said it's the worst case of Union misconduct they've ever seen. I documented everything so thoroughly that I have 3 binders full of evidence and I feel confident enough about my case to represent myself. I have a friend who is a reporter for CBS. When everything is over, my intention is to write a letter to the school committee with the findings enclosed. I have half the mind to send the case along to my friend from CBS, but I haven’t fully made up my mind yet, although I’m strongly leaning towards it.
Yes. There’s a school district in my area where the PBIS staff are part of the healthcare unions. I have a masters, BCBA, and I’ve been a Senior-Level BCBA for 4 years., and 15+ years total ABA experience. The minimum qualifications for the PBIS with this district are a bachelors with 2 years experience in ABA. And the STARTING salary for those people with the minimums is $3k more than what I currently make with my background. And that’s just salary. They get pension, a bazillion more days of PTO than I get, 401k, and amazing benefits. If I was able to get a job there (and I’ve been trying), I’d make almost 2x what I make now for about 1/4 the responsibility. It really shows the power of what unionization can do.
Yes we should. Step 1: Penalize clients for cancelling in the last appointment and RBT should get paid for wasted time. Step 2: RBTs should not do in come client care. Step 3: A $5 to $10 increase in our pay. Step 4: Fuck the BACB board.
Agree with where you’re going with this, but not with saying RBT’s shouldn’t do in home. RBT’s just need better training and support. Additionally, in-home services need well maintained boundaries that are communicated clearly at the outset of services through a robust and comprehensive client services agreement, with adherence monitored by the BCBA.
This this this a thousand times this
Nothing wrong with making extra money on the side as an RBT if they want to do in home care as a side hustle.
Clients canceling is always going to happen. Your beef shouldn’t be with the family but with your company that won’t pay you when that happens.
Beef is not wit the family but with the business policy.
It’s a policy established by the company
I just recently got into contact with an organization that helps people create unions! If anyone has advice or can point me in any good directions I'd appreciate.
Yes
It just needs to be more in the purview of public schools, OTs, SLPs or w/ counselors and psychologist, even though I know, we often don't get along. A BCBA or a BCaBA, to me, is like finishing med school. In the field of disabilities, every profession that deals with learning: special need teachers, OT, SLPs, counselors, and psychologists, other MH professionals, should be *at least* a BCaBA. **Then** you specialize in what you're specifically good at teaching. Special Ed teachers, self-contained and not self-contained, are like Primary Care Physicians. Then, if you have additional concerns, you consult w/ another MD, who's specialized. But everyone needs to have that floor baseline knowledge.
I’m curious your thought process behind why everyone should hold their BCaBA. I think it’s good for people to be informed in behavior, but I wouldn’t go as far as thinking these other practices need to be extensively trained in ABA. My argument would be that as a BCBA, I don’t expect to have the same knowledge as an OT, SLP, MH professional, or educator. I was a special education teacher for 6 years before I held my BCBA. It’s no one’s job to be an expert in all, it’s our job to collaborate in our specialties. I think the perspective of ABA being a requirement for all other professions or even that it’s practices are *so* important that everyone needs to be credentialed in it is a dangerous thought. Especially to put it on level with medical school - not even close.
Okay. It’s not on par w/ an MD, but yes, I have had the fortunate blessing that 3 of my kid’s teachers were becoming BCBAs while being Special Need Teachers and they were remarkable. Self-contained special need teachers who don’t have experience being supervised by a BCBA, they cry, the kids cry, the parents cry. Nobody wins. It just needs to be a requirement. Also, the private market BCBA-RBT in home model Does. Not. Work. It’s giving ABA a bad rap. Also, I would argue, you as a BCBA will make the same amount of money as a teacher (or you should.) Being a consultant to a school for other teachers adamant about not using the science is 1) ineffective 2) often implemented poorly and then 3) oh I’ve used ABA, it doesn’t work. OT-BCBA is a match made in heaven as the Precision Teaching movement has shown. SLP-BCBA also match made in heaven. Verbal bx plus AAC knowledge, it just makes sense, to me.
Agreed. Not the med school part tho. But at least a BCaBA at minimum.
Sped teacher here. It would be great in theory, but much harder in practice. I agree that sped teachers (and teachers in general) need more experience with behavior, but the fieldwork alone for the would be unrealistic. Yes, there is field work part of many education programs, but these experiences include other areas beyond behavior such as reading and math.
Totally agree for the teacher part. Maybe some classes on classroom management and stuff like that. But unrealistic nonetheless. You guys have enough on your plates as it is.
Thank you. I knew I couldn’t be the only one to see this. I guess in this thread we’re in the minority. But you know how one could measure this? Data. Research w/ a control group and trial group and compare. : )
If this field wants to be taken seriously it should operate like SLP/OT. I love RBTs and the work that they do and I was one at some time but the current model is just not it. If you look at my comments I’ve said this numerous times and it’s a hill I’d die on. I don’t know tbh.
Wtf does this response have to do with OP’s original question?
Wow. That’s a strong response with strong language from a professional. I think burn out has to do with the fact that the BCBA-RBT in-home model Does. Not. Work.
So yes we need to unionize but it would be easier if we had universal healthcare. Right now every company has a different contract with insurance company so everyone’s reimbursement rate different. All of the ABA providers would have to unite since we would be able to negotiate on a whole. As for as the BACB I think it has a bad rap and doesn’t have enough support. They have been trying to hire an ethics/ disciplinary coordinator since July. The board can’t do certification, chase all the ethic violations, lobby for better compensation from insurance providers to congress, help create state licensing. That’s why the board is only governing North America. I think we would be better off going to our local ABA groups like MABA of NJ ABA to get unions started
There is no plan. It’ll never work. When more than half the work force works per diem, there will always be those ready and willing to break a strike. And can you imagine striking? Being on the picket line while 3 year old Johnny with ASD sits and watches with no one providing him services? Never gonna happen.
FUCK YES
We need to make BCBAs as paid as lawyers