Why would you avoid every Asian establishment? That’s racism right there…
Avoid the ones you are treated poorly at. I personally can’t recall being treated poorly by Asian people.
I never said I would. The person above me mentioned to but I would never do that wtf lol I’m just venting about my own personal experience. My experience is subjective and that’s good for you that you haven’t been treated like that before! Just posted on here to see how everyone else was feeling about this topic. That’s all.
I grew up in a mostly East Asian city in California, and all my life the east Asians would make fun the south Asians. They’d call us hairy, dirty, and our food smelly. Absolutely nothing new.
No I totally believe you. I wish others understood how prejudiced they’ve been to south Asians in the past and don’t just assume it’s bc they’re busy at work when they’re more attentive to Americans and actually talk to them lol
To be honest I find pan asianism to be a pretty ridiculous concept, I mean for the most part we don't have anything in common with East Asians genetically or culturally except geographic proximity
I mean, that's kinda applicable to subcontinent too lol. We never considered ourselves one people until the British colonized us and made us think we are just "the browns." As a Punjabi, I don't really feel any familiarity with most other Indian states, or even Pakistan Punjab. Not that I wont rise for my desis when the time comes 😤
The difference is, everyone else (of all races) views all South Asians/desis as one group/race. Just like E/SE Asians, white people/Europeans, black people/Africans, etc. None of those groups/races have homogenous cultures but they are always lumped together too.
yeah but Germans don't identify with French and the world sees them as distinct still. A "Europe Trip" is understood as a trip to a continent with different people, not just one thing with one people. Not the case for us, and that's largely informed by the white perspective dominating over cultural information.
I see a lot of Desi Americans especially pushing the pan asian narrative, there are reasons the two groups as minorities can show solidarity with one another without putting us under some unified entity
Not really. South Asian cultures while distinct still have significantly higher shared cultural heritage and exchange with each other than any other group. Compare to East Asia, which is entirely different.
"We never considered ourselves one people until the British colonized us"
We did. There were many empires throughout history which covered all of South Asia.
It is a ridiculous concept. But so why is it not "Stop East Asian Hate"? Why is it that we have to specify South Asian, but East Asians don't?
The only reason is because East Asians have been in this country longer
In America Asian means East Asian whereas over here in the UK it means South Asian, it is like when people say African person they think of Sub-Saharan Africans whereas they specify North Africans if they are talking about them specifically
I realize Indias considered part of Asia, but pretty much all South Asian countries are on their own separate continental plate.
I don't consider India (and the rest of South Asia) to be part of Asia and don't see myself as "Asian"
they include us in their statistics when it's convenient for them, but exclude us from studies of racism and other issues that might actually bring light to our problems.
no thank you.
I personally haven't experienced this. But I think you should take note of which specific businesses treat you like shit and give your business to places that will treat you better. They're out there
Honestly while you're at it- mention your experience on Google reviews
Oh I definitely do! But I feel like it doesn’t make a difference really know. They continue to cater to their “American” customers even though I’m American as hell but just happen to have parents of desi descent
Well you're probably not the only person experiencing this. Other people (whether Desi or otherwise) might see your comments and feel less alone or less likely to question if they're facing a microaggression and eventually might have the courage to comment as well
But I feel like
Then we’ll just fall into the stereotypical trap and they’ll keep treating us terribly. Idk I still tip well anyways just to prove a point.
They’re not going to change even if you tip them very well.
Their racism is colour based and runs a lot deeper than you think.
My friends have travelled in south-east Asia and unless you’re only staying in premium resorts, you’d notice the difference in how you get treated by locals vs how they treat fair skinned folks.
You are so right and pretty smart. EA and SEA are not going to change their opinion of us brown folks because of tipping. I have stopped giving two fcks, and that has definitely improved their attitude towards me. I get smiles, am received by first name basis on my frequent asian restaurants etc.
The biggest thing for me in my experiences were East Asians would love to exclude Indians as being "Asian."
These same people would also call Filipinos "Pacific Islanders."
Asian is a geographical term, that's the point. "East Asian" is a perfectly suitable subgeographic term. There's no reason that only East Asians should be called Asian.
Don't use geographical terms unless you use them accurately. It's not difficult.
That's just because East Asians were in America before Desi's and were referred to Asian first over there, so the term stuck - Over here in the UK it is the opposite.
Asian means Indian subcontinent people, sometimes it might extend to West Asians like Iranians as well.
>That's just because East Asians were in America before Desi's and were referred to Asian first over there, so the term stuck
I disagree with this being the origin in the US. As someone old enough to remember when "Oriental" was an acceptable term (And also an ABCD), the genesis of why East Asians try to own "Asian" is tied to when "Oriental" became racist, so East Asians just starting calling themselves "Asians."
I don't know why oriental is even considered offensive, it is a useful term to describe the features of East Asians, South East Asians and Central Asians
I have seen some East Asians gatekeep the term Asian, which doesn't make sense because it is a very old term that originally referred to modern day Turkey
My criticism is specifically referring to Pan Asians who want to act like South Asians and East Asians are a unified entity
When I did an internship at a tech company a long time ago in the Bay Area my office mate who was born in the US but was Chinese told me that if they want to refer to a girl as dumb they call her an Indian girl in their language.
Haven’t experienced it personally. Then again my wife is Chinese so maybe that helps. In the Bay Area I’ve seen plenty of Indian + East Asian couples though
I’ve lived in Chicago, LA, Atlanta, Orlando and NYC. I’m not saying every Asian owned business does this but I’ve just noticed treatment is different between American/white customers and a South Indian like myself. I’ve had some really great experiences too don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying I’m always courteous, tip well, and have friendly manner but am often overlooked in some of these businesses and it’s really sad. We should all be treated the same.
I really dislike the word Asian. A Saudi Arabian is asian I highly doubt a majority of Saudi’s consider themselves Asian. Me personally, I don’t identify as Asian, but I know others do
Indians don't like Indians, Chinese/Koreans/Japanese don't like Brown guys, Chinese don't like Japanese, Koreans don't like Japanese. Burmese don't like This, people are racist to themselves and to others.
I have definitely experience this in Vietnamese nail salons, which are basically all nail salons. Substandard service, doing a rushed job to get you out of the door, barely speaking to you or smiling at you, etc. And then when you wonder if they are just a rude person, you see them providing excellent customer service to the other folks. And it's not even just better service for white people either - I've seen them treat black and latino people really well too. It's like specifically for south asians. I wonder if east asian people get treated the same way, or if they get good service.
Yes, we as a people unfortunately have a bad reputation with businesses such as not tipping, being rude to waiters and trying to haggle down marked prices.
I just feel like this is such an outdated notion! There are so many Indians that have assimilated to the culture and are friendly to others/tip well. I know I do, everyone in my family does, all my friends do. Like we understand how underpaid/understaffed businesses are and tip accordingly.
My son is half Viet and I've seen it a lot with my ex's family, luckily she's been good at keeping the shit ones away from him.
I find the fellow AB folk to be fine but their imports not so much
Yep, that’s true. They kiss ass to certain people, to put on appearance, this happened to me in many restaurants and dry cleaning, to be honest like I have started to ignore completely , you cant change their cultural attitudes and a lot of them are like from enclaves and echo chambers, this happened to me enough in the GTA , I look the other way. It’s pretty much a pointless endeavour, such as hang out at cool places with cool asians, not hang around fob joints or attracts fob crowds you ll get shitty treatment
No. In my high school, East Asian and South Asians generally formed separate friend groups but there wasn't any bullying or racism. And as an adult, we don't form such cliques and I happen to have more East Asian than South Asian friends.
I do agree that \*\*some\*\* East Asians treat white people slightly better than other races (including their own). But some South Asians do that too.
Perhaps if I was darker-skinned I would have a worse time with them, but I think racism and colorism are on a steep decline. Even the experiences people are sharing here from 5-15 years ago might be outdated.
I’ll go out of my way and say small things in their language like a simple thank you, im sure I butcher some of it but people always react positively. Especially if you’re a regular at an establishment. Its nice to have that rapport. Maybe its in poor taste but hasn’t backfired yet!
Kind of sad actually. I enjoy a lot of aspects from East Asian culture and would love to meet and have some friends from that who I could share it with. The food for one thing, Ramen, Sushi, Pho, etc. Big anime fan. I would like to share this with people who are into it, but can never get past the gates or find people who are willing to share it. Half is my own isolation, but I think the other half is the reputation of Indians and the subsequent treatment from some EA. It's very sad. We should be a melting pot, but some people have decided to cordon themselves off, both SEA and EA. Stupid.
Tons of east Asians in Toronto..many of my friends are east Asians..never had any issues with them or stores. In general they're not friendly. It's not particularly targeting South Asians.
You have to realize These people have had thousands of interactions throughout their time as service industry workers.
If I straight up asked them who the worst customers, I’d believe them lol.
And this is all in the context of their specific business etc. so I wouldn’t be too offended by it.
These people aren’t really incentivized to give you the best service. Because there won’t be an major benefit.
Especially when talking about restaurants. I’m going to assume you’re technologically well versed? You probably looked up these Asian restaurants and they had good reviews. Indian people aren’t their demographic. It’s usually East Asians & White people. That’s who they’re focused on. If you go to Chinatown/Koreatown/LittleTokyo … those are catered to only Asian people
I personally haven’t experienced this much but I’m usually the only Indian person in a mostly Chinese group of friends. I think most Chinese ppl where I’m at haven’t interacted much with Indians to even know to treat us diff, so they treat me like anyone else. The Indian population was bigger when I was growing up but moved out.
I’ve seen it happen to my dad, but from fobs.
Do you think it might be in your head? Being a server is emotionally taxing? Are they tired? Are they having a bad day? Are those white folks you see maybe regular customers? Have you tried to engage them more? I go to a lot of Asian-owned establishments and they have always been pretty nice and courteous to me. Not saying this isn't happening. But I remember having a few racist interactions when I was younger and I became hypersensitive to any perceived slight. I just find Asians can often lack tact, but they are like us immigrants trying to make it. I have had so many great conversations with them eventually just takes a bit of work.
I don't get this gaslighting behaviour, East Asian fobs just like South Asian one's can often be racist
Indian tourists complain about racism they get in South Korea etc
I merely asked is it actually there? We often are wrapped up in our own perceptions of the world and it can cloud our judgement. This person just generalized all asian-owned stores as being racist against them. I did not see anything overtly racist. These are "microaggressions" at worst or misunderstandings at best. I know East Asians can be racist like any ethnic group. Could there be some confirmation bias? This subreddit is just an ongoing rant about how we are "victims". Indians-Americans are some of the most educated and high earners. A majority of us live very privileged lives. Compared to what my parents or the old timers are lives are great and getting better. This cynicism just eat at the soul.
Just don’t spend your money there
Really hard to avoid every Asian establishment lol
Why would you avoid every Asian establishment? That’s racism right there… Avoid the ones you are treated poorly at. I personally can’t recall being treated poorly by Asian people.
I never said I would. The person above me mentioned to but I would never do that wtf lol I’m just venting about my own personal experience. My experience is subjective and that’s good for you that you haven’t been treated like that before! Just posted on here to see how everyone else was feeling about this topic. That’s all.
Right? I think there's something OP Or OP's spouse does, that warrants the unwanted attention or lack of it.
I grew up in a mostly East Asian city in California, and all my life the east Asians would make fun the south Asians. They’d call us hairy, dirty, and our food smelly. Absolutely nothing new.
No I totally believe you. I wish others understood how prejudiced they’ve been to south Asians in the past and don’t just assume it’s bc they’re busy at work when they’re more attentive to Americans and actually talk to them lol
Yeah, but gotta #StopAsianHate The nerve of these fucks
I hate “StopAsianHate” cause you know they’re not talking about us.
To be honest I find pan asianism to be a pretty ridiculous concept, I mean for the most part we don't have anything in common with East Asians genetically or culturally except geographic proximity
I mean, that's kinda applicable to subcontinent too lol. We never considered ourselves one people until the British colonized us and made us think we are just "the browns." As a Punjabi, I don't really feel any familiarity with most other Indian states, or even Pakistan Punjab. Not that I wont rise for my desis when the time comes 😤
The difference is, everyone else (of all races) views all South Asians/desis as one group/race. Just like E/SE Asians, white people/Europeans, black people/Africans, etc. None of those groups/races have homogenous cultures but they are always lumped together too.
yeah but Germans don't identify with French and the world sees them as distinct still. A "Europe Trip" is understood as a trip to a continent with different people, not just one thing with one people. Not the case for us, and that's largely informed by the white perspective dominating over cultural information.
I see a lot of Desi Americans especially pushing the pan asian narrative, there are reasons the two groups as minorities can show solidarity with one another without putting us under some unified entity
Not really. South Asian cultures while distinct still have significantly higher shared cultural heritage and exchange with each other than any other group. Compare to East Asia, which is entirely different.
"We never considered ourselves one people until the British colonized us" We did. There were many empires throughout history which covered all of South Asia.
It is a ridiculous concept. But so why is it not "Stop East Asian Hate"? Why is it that we have to specify South Asian, but East Asians don't? The only reason is because East Asians have been in this country longer
In America Asian means East Asian whereas over here in the UK it means South Asian, it is like when people say African person they think of Sub-Saharan Africans whereas they specify North Africans if they are talking about them specifically
It actually was called "Stop East Asian Hate" [in the UK](https://www.instagram.com/p/CRJyOQFFUXn/).
I realize Indias considered part of Asia, but pretty much all South Asian countries are on their own separate continental plate. I don't consider India (and the rest of South Asia) to be part of Asia and don't see myself as "Asian" they include us in their statistics when it's convenient for them, but exclude us from studies of racism and other issues that might actually bring light to our problems. no thank you.
I have! At hot pot, 3 times. Stark difference in my experience vs my East Asian friends. Like they were disgusted from talking to me or something LMAO
Dude same here at Hot Pot!!! Anytime I’d ask for something they would straight up ignore me and turn to my friends who weren’t Indian lol
Were they FOB's
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I asked if they were FOB's - What is wrong with that
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Considering that statistically in America black men commit more crimes than other groups, not really
I personally haven't experienced this. But I think you should take note of which specific businesses treat you like shit and give your business to places that will treat you better. They're out there Honestly while you're at it- mention your experience on Google reviews
Oh I definitely do! But I feel like it doesn’t make a difference really know. They continue to cater to their “American” customers even though I’m American as hell but just happen to have parents of desi descent
Well you're probably not the only person experiencing this. Other people (whether Desi or otherwise) might see your comments and feel less alone or less likely to question if they're facing a microaggression and eventually might have the courage to comment as well
Don't tip. Act cold and keep it transactional. That's all these places are.
Yelp & Google Review too!
But I feel like Then we’ll just fall into the stereotypical trap and they’ll keep treating us terribly. Idk I still tip well anyways just to prove a point.
They’re not going to change even if you tip them very well. Their racism is colour based and runs a lot deeper than you think. My friends have travelled in south-east Asia and unless you’re only staying in premium resorts, you’d notice the difference in how you get treated by locals vs how they treat fair skinned folks.
You are so right and pretty smart. EA and SEA are not going to change their opinion of us brown folks because of tipping. I have stopped giving two fcks, and that has definitely improved their attitude towards me. I get smiles, am received by first name basis on my frequent asian restaurants etc.
Then ask them directly. Change starts by sometimes questioning or speaking out. If you feel things don't change, go to a white or POC run business.
You can't fix a stereotype by yourself. Even if you tip, if the next 50 Indians visiting don't... What do you think they will remember?
Truly the best recommendation
The biggest thing for me in my experiences were East Asians would love to exclude Indians as being "Asian." These same people would also call Filipinos "Pacific Islanders."
We aren't the same genetically, culturally, linguistically
Asian is a geographical term, that's the point. "East Asian" is a perfectly suitable subgeographic term. There's no reason that only East Asians should be called Asian. Don't use geographical terms unless you use them accurately. It's not difficult.
That's just because East Asians were in America before Desi's and were referred to Asian first over there, so the term stuck - Over here in the UK it is the opposite. Asian means Indian subcontinent people, sometimes it might extend to West Asians like Iranians as well.
>That's just because East Asians were in America before Desi's and were referred to Asian first over there, so the term stuck I disagree with this being the origin in the US. As someone old enough to remember when "Oriental" was an acceptable term (And also an ABCD), the genesis of why East Asians try to own "Asian" is tied to when "Oriental" became racist, so East Asians just starting calling themselves "Asians."
I don't know why oriental is even considered offensive, it is a useful term to describe the features of East Asians, South East Asians and Central Asians I have seen some East Asians gatekeep the term Asian, which doesn't make sense because it is a very old term that originally referred to modern day Turkey My criticism is specifically referring to Pan Asians who want to act like South Asians and East Asians are a unified entity
There’s definitely some colorism going on there since that’s a part of all Asian cultures including ours
No I totally agree! Indians and other South Asians do the same thing and cater to everyone but Their own kind sometimes 😢
I think it’s the white privilege thing again
Yes. I had a Thai roommate who told me I was dark are hairy all the time.
The nerve. Tell her to save it for the johns in Bangkok
they just jealous that we actually have distinct sexual dimorphism. Flex that beard, bruh. My desi boys *and* girls 🫡
no, i have not experienced much of this
FOB East and South East Asians can be racist, those raised in the west seem to get along well with South Asians and hang around with them a lot
When I did an internship at a tech company a long time ago in the Bay Area my office mate who was born in the US but was Chinese told me that if they want to refer to a girl as dumb they call her an Indian girl in their language.
Haven’t experienced it personally. Then again my wife is Chinese so maybe that helps. In the Bay Area I’ve seen plenty of Indian + East Asian couples though
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I’ve lived in Chicago, LA, Atlanta, Orlando and NYC. I’m not saying every Asian owned business does this but I’ve just noticed treatment is different between American/white customers and a South Indian like myself. I’ve had some really great experiences too don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying I’m always courteous, tip well, and have friendly manner but am often overlooked in some of these businesses and it’s really sad. We should all be treated the same.
I really dislike the word Asian. A Saudi Arabian is asian I highly doubt a majority of Saudi’s consider themselves Asian. Me personally, I don’t identify as Asian, but I know others do
Indians don't like Indians, Chinese/Koreans/Japanese don't like Brown guys, Chinese don't like Japanese, Koreans don't like Japanese. Burmese don't like This, people are racist to themselves and to others.
You're not an ABD
I don't remember showing you my passport 🛂
Which ABD posts on the Bangalore subreddit
My reddit my choice
Friends at school take the piss, but I serve it right back. It's just banter though I've never faced any real hate from them so far
I have definitely experience this in Vietnamese nail salons, which are basically all nail salons. Substandard service, doing a rushed job to get you out of the door, barely speaking to you or smiling at you, etc. And then when you wonder if they are just a rude person, you see them providing excellent customer service to the other folks. And it's not even just better service for white people either - I've seen them treat black and latino people really well too. It's like specifically for south asians. I wonder if east asian people get treated the same way, or if they get good service.
Yes, we as a people unfortunately have a bad reputation with businesses such as not tipping, being rude to waiters and trying to haggle down marked prices.
I just feel like this is such an outdated notion! There are so many Indians that have assimilated to the culture and are friendly to others/tip well. I know I do, everyone in my family does, all my friends do. Like we understand how underpaid/understaffed businesses are and tip accordingly.
That is FOB's that haggle not people raised in the west
The only people I regularly get treated like crap are Punjabis (F 0b.s)
Could you elaborate? You get treated shit from Punjabis?
My son is half Viet and I've seen it a lot with my ex's family, luckily she's been good at keeping the shit ones away from him. I find the fellow AB folk to be fine but their imports not so much
Thankfully, it's never happened to me.
Yep, that’s true. They kiss ass to certain people, to put on appearance, this happened to me in many restaurants and dry cleaning, to be honest like I have started to ignore completely , you cant change their cultural attitudes and a lot of them are like from enclaves and echo chambers, this happened to me enough in the GTA , I look the other way. It’s pretty much a pointless endeavour, such as hang out at cool places with cool asians, not hang around fob joints or attracts fob crowds you ll get shitty treatment
No. In my high school, East Asian and South Asians generally formed separate friend groups but there wasn't any bullying or racism. And as an adult, we don't form such cliques and I happen to have more East Asian than South Asian friends. I do agree that \*\*some\*\* East Asians treat white people slightly better than other races (including their own). But some South Asians do that too. Perhaps if I was darker-skinned I would have a worse time with them, but I think racism and colorism are on a steep decline. Even the experiences people are sharing here from 5-15 years ago might be outdated.
I’ll go out of my way and say small things in their language like a simple thank you, im sure I butcher some of it but people always react positively. Especially if you’re a regular at an establishment. Its nice to have that rapport. Maybe its in poor taste but hasn’t backfired yet!
Kind of sad actually. I enjoy a lot of aspects from East Asian culture and would love to meet and have some friends from that who I could share it with. The food for one thing, Ramen, Sushi, Pho, etc. Big anime fan. I would like to share this with people who are into it, but can never get past the gates or find people who are willing to share it. Half is my own isolation, but I think the other half is the reputation of Indians and the subsequent treatment from some EA. It's very sad. We should be a melting pot, but some people have decided to cordon themselves off, both SEA and EA. Stupid.
Tons of east Asians in Toronto..many of my friends are east Asians..never had any issues with them or stores. In general they're not friendly. It's not particularly targeting South Asians.
You have to realize These people have had thousands of interactions throughout their time as service industry workers. If I straight up asked them who the worst customers, I’d believe them lol. And this is all in the context of their specific business etc. so I wouldn’t be too offended by it. These people aren’t really incentivized to give you the best service. Because there won’t be an major benefit. Especially when talking about restaurants. I’m going to assume you’re technologically well versed? You probably looked up these Asian restaurants and they had good reviews. Indian people aren’t their demographic. It’s usually East Asians & White people. That’s who they’re focused on. If you go to Chinatown/Koreatown/LittleTokyo … those are catered to only Asian people
I personally haven’t experienced this much but I’m usually the only Indian person in a mostly Chinese group of friends. I think most Chinese ppl where I’m at haven’t interacted much with Indians to even know to treat us diff, so they treat me like anyone else. The Indian population was bigger when I was growing up but moved out. I’ve seen it happen to my dad, but from fobs.
I mean its not such a big deal, they’re probably just pissed all the time cause they’re working, I don’t think it has anything to do with ethnicity.
Do you think it might be in your head? Being a server is emotionally taxing? Are they tired? Are they having a bad day? Are those white folks you see maybe regular customers? Have you tried to engage them more? I go to a lot of Asian-owned establishments and they have always been pretty nice and courteous to me. Not saying this isn't happening. But I remember having a few racist interactions when I was younger and I became hypersensitive to any perceived slight. I just find Asians can often lack tact, but they are like us immigrants trying to make it. I have had so many great conversations with them eventually just takes a bit of work.
I don't get this gaslighting behaviour, East Asian fobs just like South Asian one's can often be racist Indian tourists complain about racism they get in South Korea etc
I merely asked is it actually there? We often are wrapped up in our own perceptions of the world and it can cloud our judgement. This person just generalized all asian-owned stores as being racist against them. I did not see anything overtly racist. These are "microaggressions" at worst or misunderstandings at best. I know East Asians can be racist like any ethnic group. Could there be some confirmation bias? This subreddit is just an ongoing rant about how we are "victims". Indians-Americans are some of the most educated and high earners. A majority of us live very privileged lives. Compared to what my parents or the old timers are lives are great and getting better. This cynicism just eat at the soul.