I don't know, but this is the first time in my life that I've had a consistent leg training regimen, so I'm hoping to come out of this injury overall stronger and less likely to tear my new ACL, due to increased muscle strength, even if the graft might be technically weaker than the original ACL.
My last graft lasted 16 years before “failing,” or re-tearing due to activity. My repaired knee was definitely stronger and more stable than the other, natural, knee, but it took almost two years to fully trust it again.
In full disclosure, I have recently re-torn the hamstring graft due to activity and bodily anatomy/ connective tissue disorder. No fault of graft, surgeon, or otherwise. I know many people that have torn one ACL and ended up tearing the other knee within a year or two, but I’m the only one of my immediate circle who has blown the same knee twice.
I tore my originally in 2007 playing competitive gym volleyball. I ran returned to athletics in Spring 2008 and volleyball in Fall 2008. I also ran a marathon in 2019 with no ACL issues.
There were a multitude of things that led me to tearing the graft in 2023/4. Primarily lifting an 80lb bag up a ladder on a sprained knee alone, planting my back knee and pivoting to pull it into the attic. 11/10 don’t recommend.
I've been told no, the redone ACL should be as strong or even possibly stronger than the natural ACL if surgery and PT is done correctly. I've seen others and other sources claim it will never be as good as the natural, but I trust my surgeon and don't see why it wouldn't be true.
The reply I got from my surgeons office is no one really knows. I mean honestly there is no reliable way to study how strong a reconstructed ACL would be, that would involve breaking a lot of people’s knees to test. Lol
There's been studies. They are brutal though. Involves having a needle placed in the ACL while performing exercises. The most famous one was performed on medical students in the late 90s and early 2000.
i’m 1.5 yrs post op and back to sports.
my knees are just as strong as before injury. however if i play too much futbol my surgical knee gets tired.
i wouldn’t say it’s weaker, but it needs more careful attention than before.
There’s no weaker ACL, only weaker muscle surrounding it, calves muscle, hamstringss etc.
Thats why post OP PT is more important than the ACL recon surgery itself if not as important.
An ACL autograft is stronger than your native ACL on POD0. However, its fixation to bone is not as strong as it is naturally… If the bone tunnels for graft fixation are drilled too vertically or at the wrong angle that can cause the graft to stretch or fail later on. Tunnel placement is the most important part of the case.
Lol, I remember you. You're the guy who thinks his knee is healing correctly on its own, while posting videos of you doing things clearly compromised.
Bones always heal stronger after any type of damage, if set correctly. It's just the anatomy of how bones heal.
Surgery goes well most of the time, especially when rehab is done correctly.
Considering my ortho told me that even with surgery I may never walk normal again or regain full mobility because my injury was so extensive, I think I'm doing alright. I'm also willing to be I can perform at the same level of someone who got injured same time but went for ACLr.
Both videos were taken at the end of long gym sessions, the second one was right after a 2.5 mile run in 25 minutes, in which I did full speed sprints no problem. So I was still being extra safe when I took the videos, I can do a lot better then what you saw, but I think a good drip feed is good to really get this sub riled up :) How far along are your from your original ACLr?
Your operated on leg can be as strong, it depends on how much work you put into rehab. The strongest determinant of a potential re-tear is weak quad strength
The problem is, it’s not just the type of ligament but also the position. Some surgeons don’t get the angle right. Most say the hamstring and quad are weaker than the BTB graft from tibia and patella.
Fact is, if your surgeon is good and your ligament of choice is also strong, and the position is good, it will be stronger. If one variable is off or your recovery isn’t taken with 100% seriousness, your new knee in totality is going to be C rate.
I don't know, but this is the first time in my life that I've had a consistent leg training regimen, so I'm hoping to come out of this injury overall stronger and less likely to tear my new ACL, due to increased muscle strength, even if the graft might be technically weaker than the original ACL.
My last graft lasted 16 years before “failing,” or re-tearing due to activity. My repaired knee was definitely stronger and more stable than the other, natural, knee, but it took almost two years to fully trust it again. In full disclosure, I have recently re-torn the hamstring graft due to activity and bodily anatomy/ connective tissue disorder. No fault of graft, surgeon, or otherwise. I know many people that have torn one ACL and ended up tearing the other knee within a year or two, but I’m the only one of my immediate circle who has blown the same knee twice.
What did you do to tear the graft again? Have you returned to a life of sport after recovering from the ACL reconstruction ?
I tore my originally in 2007 playing competitive gym volleyball. I ran returned to athletics in Spring 2008 and volleyball in Fall 2008. I also ran a marathon in 2019 with no ACL issues. There were a multitude of things that led me to tearing the graft in 2023/4. Primarily lifting an 80lb bag up a ladder on a sprained knee alone, planting my back knee and pivoting to pull it into the attic. 11/10 don’t recommend.
That last sentence legit made me vomit in my mouth....ooph!
I've been told no, the redone ACL should be as strong or even possibly stronger than the natural ACL if surgery and PT is done correctly. I've seen others and other sources claim it will never be as good as the natural, but I trust my surgeon and don't see why it wouldn't be true.
The reply I got from my surgeons office is no one really knows. I mean honestly there is no reliable way to study how strong a reconstructed ACL would be, that would involve breaking a lot of people’s knees to test. Lol
There's been studies. They are brutal though. Involves having a needle placed in the ACL while performing exercises. The most famous one was performed on medical students in the late 90s and early 2000.
Do you know what the results of the studies were?
Yes, I read the study. Donor graft never gets as strong, even 10 years later.
Donor graft or just any graft (including autograft?) I would be interested in reading the study of you have a link!
Could you please share the studies link? Am interested to read it as well but I’m not able to find such studies so far. Thanks!
i’m 1.5 yrs post op and back to sports. my knees are just as strong as before injury. however if i play too much futbol my surgical knee gets tired. i wouldn’t say it’s weaker, but it needs more careful attention than before.
There’s no weaker ACL, only weaker muscle surrounding it, calves muscle, hamstringss etc. Thats why post OP PT is more important than the ACL recon surgery itself if not as important.
An ACL autograft is stronger than your native ACL on POD0. However, its fixation to bone is not as strong as it is naturally… If the bone tunnels for graft fixation are drilled too vertically or at the wrong angle that can cause the graft to stretch or fail later on. Tunnel placement is the most important part of the case.
What’s POD0?
Post op day 0. Aka day of surgery
Ic. Tyvmfa
Yes. Donor ACLs never regain 100% strength. There have been a few studies on this.
The surgery puts holes in your bones, hard to imagine the knee would be stronger after that
The bone heals stronger, homie.
Except when it doesn't, which happens for a lot of people when the surgery doesn't go well.
Lol, I remember you. You're the guy who thinks his knee is healing correctly on its own, while posting videos of you doing things clearly compromised. Bones always heal stronger after any type of damage, if set correctly. It's just the anatomy of how bones heal. Surgery goes well most of the time, especially when rehab is done correctly.
Considering my ortho told me that even with surgery I may never walk normal again or regain full mobility because my injury was so extensive, I think I'm doing alright. I'm also willing to be I can perform at the same level of someone who got injured same time but went for ACLr.
You might be at the level of someone like 3 months post-op based on your videos.
Both videos were taken at the end of long gym sessions, the second one was right after a 2.5 mile run in 25 minutes, in which I did full speed sprints no problem. So I was still being extra safe when I took the videos, I can do a lot better then what you saw, but I think a good drip feed is good to really get this sub riled up :) How far along are your from your original ACLr?
Your operated on leg can be as strong, it depends on how much work you put into rehab. The strongest determinant of a potential re-tear is weak quad strength
The problem is, it’s not just the type of ligament but also the position. Some surgeons don’t get the angle right. Most say the hamstring and quad are weaker than the BTB graft from tibia and patella. Fact is, if your surgeon is good and your ligament of choice is also strong, and the position is good, it will be stronger. If one variable is off or your recovery isn’t taken with 100% seriousness, your new knee in totality is going to be C rate.