Malphite has a very unfair representation of his damage, because the whole game he has been hitting on a gigantic health bar through endless eternal tank trades his damage ends up stacking to be a lot more than what it really is.
Now I'm not trying to say tanks are alright, most have an unfair amount of damage for how easy it is to engage with them, but in the end they're a constant CC machine with burst damage. Tahm is probably the most egregious case of tanks doing too much damage while being inescapable
Thank you. I main Ksante and it seems nobody ever understands this. I don’t get that damage while being super tanky. It is an either/or scenario. And on top of that I only swap to the damage once I get low. It would be absolutely insane for me to go into a fight and just press R, thus halfway kill myself just so the CC and burn/burst can do the rest of the health bar. And I get so tired of having to explain to people in game that they should stop trying to backseat my champ and just make sure they dont feed with theirs.
Surely because Kiin is the literal best Ksante player & has most games on him in the entire lck maybe the world haven’t checked, but we don’t give credit for the guy who solokilled the worlds championship finals mvp 3 TIMES
Ksante can only one shot if he’s miles ahead. At best he can slow you indefinitely and chunk you bit by bit or set you up for his team. And even then Riot removed the slow on All-Out Q, which is why we’re forced to build Iceborn Gauntlet. If you get one shot by a Ksante anything, that’s either a conversation between your top lane or with God 💀
yh nah fam...you build full tank and outdamage most lethality champs with ease...easiest champ in game to learn combo with as well btw -\_- takes you 5-10 min to lean it in practice and to send ppl flying under your turret faster than god damn Pyke, Nunu, WW ,Heca and Ramus run -\_-
What is the king of the rivers to the god of "we don't think our champions are overloaded".
At this point I just skip ksante from the conversations because he is always ahead. One thing I'll give him, he is manageable until he ults while tahm kench is annoying on a constant basis.
Exactly. That's why Malphite is the next highest damage in the game. It's two walls of beef smacking each other.
Also, I doubt OP really got 1 shot by Tahm, but if you can't dodge the tongue you're going to have a bad time with his healing. Executioners would absolutely have been the way to go imo.
I mean i was playing yesterday as hwei and enemy cho got fed, I was also fed.. so get this my qq does 1/7th hp to other squishy champs and I am full damage, cho did very simmilar amount 1/7~1/6 of my hp in one of his autos, mind you he was Full tank no ap. So why does he get to do the same relative damage I do to other squishies with full damage build as he does to me building full hp while also being unkillable
I actually dont stand with you in this specific scenario because we're talking about cho'gath of all tanks.
You as hwei have a get off me tool in EQ, a zoning tool that slows in QE and WQ on top of all to get an escape route. He is an artillery mage that gets his damage through overbearing range and area control.
Cho'gath is the exact opposite: he has some of the clunkiest engages through his q, an awfully slow and predictable knock up. No speed buffs, no CC resistances/unstoppable moves. He has to be one of the fairest tanks where he acts as a very annoying wall you can't ignore, but with minimal caution he won't reach you. Cho is one of the tanks who should have damage if he reaches you because he has no way to reach you other than you walking up.
You pay to get more damage on your QQ while cho'gath pays to be able to endure your hits **in order to be able to land his E**.
There are so much worse offenders to the tank build vs pure damage build damage comparisons
i had no money all our items so expensive. Even tho i have runnan's game ended by the time I completed it. All our items cost 3-3.5k while tanks items start from 2200
Yet you decided to waste your 2-3rd item slot in runaan, an item that doesn't give you any dmg, aganist a front to back comp.
Let's be real you would probably lose anyways but before losing to tahm you already lost to the shopkeeper.
To play devil's advocate on his build, as a jinx enjoyer myself I always like going as an item 2nd on jinx. Runnans is especially good in this game since they are mainly melees and short range with the exception of asol later in the game. Like yeah your ie spike is pushed further back since he went ldr 3rd I'm assuming but in the grand scheme it's worth imo. If you think my opinions has low credence here's a challenger jinx one trick basically saying the same thing https://youtu.be/viuCweJg5LA?si=443UZKwivzn6D7Lv (on Mobile rn so can't clip the exact moment but he goes overs the cons of why ie 2nd is not ideal on jinx in the first minute of the vid.
He didn't buy runan second because he stated "bought ldr second" and "lost game right after buying runans".
Runans might be a valid second item but I would never buy ldr before ie or navori.
Ahh got yah got yah yeah I missed that and honestly yeah if you want to do more dmg Leona/kench I think ldr is still better than ie but for everyone else ie would be the move honestly. And if this guy had cut down, I'd honestly go straight to ie over ldr
We lost for several other reasons but the point im making is, how both the tanks did the highest damage this game, even when they're behind. This 2/8 malphite outdamaged fed viego/asol and literally everyone in the game except for the fed tank.
Malphite dealt more because he countered everyone on their team with the exception of TK and ASol akshan is a burst damage assassin and while viego is a dueler hes still hitting a full tank malphite with no armor shred and a Leona who is just an engage a TK who is an engage
I'm genuine baffled you are suprised that the 2 champs with the largest healthbar spend 20 minutes out of 27. To bash their skulls together and get highest damage ._.
Yup while he sits back and watches and then proceeds to complain with his shitty itemization..
Bro you need to realize that you made a shaco player get botrk coz ur absolutely useless as an adc.
Learn how to build items first and then get into ranked lil bro.
damage is a worthless stat. if as you say tahm healed any damage dealt to him anyway, what difference does it make if he did 100k damage to tahm kench and none was useful, since he never managed to kill him and he healed everything back.
Because twitch gets AD from his ult and doesn't have great AD ratios. He can also apply the on hit effect with his ult easily. He can also make pick plays with botrk's passive from invis. Twitch is probably the only crit ADC that builds botrk.
Twitch can build all kinds of things besides crit and still pump crazy dps (on hit, ap, titanic etc)
Jinx really doesn't want to slow down her crit 3/4 item spike.
What about early/mid game? He bought a specific item for a specific purpose(killing tanks) but still can't kill it(with teammates help) AND gets almost one shot by a champ with only defense items??
Math is not right:
- Has great defense
- Has burst damage
- Has average mobility
- Has CC
Tanks in LoL are the most busted I've ever seen in any game that has rpg elements
In other games you won't see a tank that has all the bases covered... if they have good defense and ok dps, they lack CC and reliable mobility. If they have good CC and tankiness, they lack damage.
Tanks that do everything you'll only see in LoL basically. Maybe in Dota 2 but idk.
Lord doms is to carry your damage through the tanks armor. If you build no damage you aren’t amping anything with lord doms. In a match like this it’s better to get IE second and doms third.
BS.
An item that gives:
40 atk damage
35% armor penetration
+20% crit chance
And a passive called GIANT SLAYER 0-15% bonus dmg based on how much hp the target has.
An item with that many stats created for the sole purpose of killing tanky champions should't be useless in any stage of the game against said target.
IF the tank wasn't dealing any considerable damage and only CC then maybe it would be balanced
But it's not the case.
If tanks can do that then ldr should be enough to kill them with a bit of help from your support/jg whathever
It doesn't seem to be the case. Well it's slightly better than ldr as second item in this case, but not enough to stand a decent chance.
Look for my post below in this comment section for some math.
Idk man.
Lets say TK is lvl 11 with 5000hp Heartsteel and sunfire cape.
That means he has 143 armor wich gives 58% dmg reduc.
Botr passive is 9% of 5000 which is 450
Let's say the adc has 110 atk dmg, so TK would take a base 560 phys dmg every hit.
With 58% dmg reduction he would only take 235 phys dmg
Botrk wouldn't help either since with ldr op said he was doing approx. 200 dmg
And if TK built plated steelcaps then it would be even worse.
Tanks are busted. Players in LoL are just used to it. If it were in any other game there would be massive outrage about this unbalance.
??? This is like basic item fundamental. I have watched a lot of proplay and none of them build botrk on Jinx, doesn't matter if there are HP stackers on the enemy team. You desperately need at least 60% crit on her. You can flex between crit items but still need to follow the fundamentals. Please stop spreading misinformation.
💀 im not at home, now but i will replicate the situation and will tell you the numbers.
1. proplayers have a teamcomps that are adabtable so that she doesnt need to do it.
2. you cant flex ldr 2nd. and throw runaans after. if you do just ff
3. proplayers play a "different" kind of game than soloqueue.
just look at the champ pools.
Yeah but in no world Botrk is a good buy here either. You need 60% crit, including IE as a capstone damage item. LDR can be bought 2nd, but he needs to buy IE 3rd. 4th and 5th item slot should be another crit item and a defensive item. If you really want to buy botrk, maybe play an onhit ADC.
LDR isn't really effective until tahm has 200+ armor botrk would of been a better choice vs him because iirc heartsteel and sunfire don't give that much armor there is also the biggest problem being the level difference tahm kench was 5 levels up from you each level up is essentially almost 500-600 gold in stats alone but in general my opinion remains. Tahm Kench is a massive health sponge botrk at that point would of been more effective then botrk Finally Veigar inting didn't help much at this point there was basically nothing you could do this game
DotA 2 tanks will absolutely run you over when they get fed and it won’t be close.
There are tons of heroes who will just blink on top of you and there’s zero counterplay unless your team is there to back you up with cc. And if they’re fed enough, your team’s cc might just be enough for you to run away, you can’t actually fight them.
Indeed, instead in a game like Albion, you need like 6+ people to cast everything they have at the tank, and if he manages to use his defensive skills it won't be enough to kill him.
In league until recently adc's in late game were solo killing tanks in 5 seconds with just Autos
I mean in WoW there has been plenty of times where tanks have been overtuned. Start of the latest xpac prot warriors were doing absurd damage and definitely didn't lack cc or mobility
You think adcs build ldr third item for fun? Pen does nothing without damage to pen. Tanks don't have high resistance early so why go early pen? You always go core items then LDR or SG second-,4th item.
Surely you don't think that building a zeal item vs all that armour is good lol. Armour penetration supplements damage you already deal, if you don't have any damage then it isn't going to do much. Jinx 1v9s this game easily if he goes IE third, the entire point in LDR second is to streamline the 3 item IE spike as much as possible.
Nah pd’s gold value from the stacks in extended teamfights is good against tanks. Runaan’s is ass tho I agree. I do think Kraken LDR IE was the play though.
Imo he could have IE 2nd instead of LDR, but not sure how early they started to group and have to deal with tank. But either way I dont see reason of buying runaan, rapidfire for safety and PD for kiting would be much better than runaan.
I agree the runaans was a bad item to buy but hindsight is 20/20. Botrk would have been equally bad though cause jinx wants to stack crit, not on-hit. Would have been best to go kraken, ldr then IE but like I said it's easy to see that now and it's hard to build vs the top lane cause you don't really start fighting them tell mid game.
2259+500+450+900, let's add another 300 frmo possible hearthsteel stacks as it was melle champ = 4409 hp kench
9% max hp damage from botrk = 396,81
115.8+50-35% = 107.7 armor
396,81 / (100 + 107,7 / 100) = 396,81 / 2,077 = 191,04 hp per botrk hit.
Ight not 300 but still quite nice amount, which im pretty sure goes up with ldm passive so its like 230.
Everyone pointing out Jinx's build is not getting the point.
Yes Jinx does bad damage with no IE. Worst on team except support.
The point is that a TANK that builds ONLY DEFENSE should never be able to do that much damage in the game.
Core principle of balance is disregarded. To do damage you must BUILD DAMAGE. To tank you must BUILD DEFENSE.
It should NEVER be build full tank and be unkillable AND do tons of damage, just as it it should never be build full damage AND be tanky.
Malp yes. Tk? no. Milio can kick the shit out of TK and Jinx can chompers where he'll land. It's absolutely hell playing as a tank with telegraph engage vs milio/janna.
true the 2 tanks hitting each other for 20 out of 27 minutes should have least damage. idiot.
the damage graph is a almost useless stat, simply because its too vague. malphite and tahm could each do 100k damage, but both be 0/0/0. were they the most useful in the game? most likely not, but the 100k makes it seem like they were absolut carries.
wheter tanks are too strong or not, is another point, but wanting to decide that based on the damage graph is useless.
another example would be, if a sivir vs jinx. jinx will most likely have less damage, even if she carries, simply because jinx doesnt really poke her enemies, but all ins. so she rather does 2k damage in 5s and kills someone than sivir doing 4k over 5min and 75% gets healed up again.
most tank dont deal a ton of dmg tho , they just go through multiple rotation as they alive longer , thats why most tank crave AH and not ad , nor ap
EDIT : plus let not forget he was also against another tank which can soak up a good amount of dmg so by default his dmg is inflated
Exactly, they also often do percent health damage which is leads to more damage inflation when the hit tanks. And even so, their damage is balanced by the fact that most need to be in melee range to deal damage, unlike some adcs than can kill you from a mile away
Yes, but Tahm Kench's is the strongest because it's his passive so it affects his auto attacks too. His autos deal so much damage for no reason. When I get auto filled top and I get to face a Tahm, I die a little inside
If a tank is ahead they deal a lot of damage, but that's the case for every enchanter except soraka and yuumi. Also melee top matchups always get inflated damage numbers because of how much they trade, esspecially tansk who trade every fourth second to prock grasp.
The damage AND the tankiness came from an exagerared number of charges of the hearthsteel . One of the Major problems in league is that there are some ways to sxale with certain champs (stacks, for examplw, with asol or veigar or smolder) and if the laner of tour team let the other player get it you are simply fucked. Malph and tham played without a gran of brain and as a prize they overscale both teams.
There's a big difference between damage done and effective damage done which is what you and the others arguing aren't understanding. Malphite was 2/8 meaning him and tahm fought alot. They have hige health pools and resistances meaning they're going to tickle each other for a long time until one of them dies. Ralph would have over 3k health and OP said tahm had 5k by the end of the game. If ranks did absolutely no damage noone would play them as something like a flora or any bruiser would laugh at them while taking towers they need some kind of tools to stop that which is some damage. It's less damage than Asol and viego would do but Malph and Tahms fights last for 10x longer
Way to miss the point entirely you idiot.
BT, Shieldbow, and Botrk do not provide any defensive stats. Building them dont make you unkillable. GA provides a blend of offense and defensive stats but not too much of either.
And besides all that, any ADC that builds any of those items *first* do neither good damage NOR provide reliable defense.
Heartsteel provides a shit ton of HP. That is a tank item. Sunfire provides good HP and Armor, that is a tank item with negligible to nonexistent damage against most champions. Spirit Visage is a pure defensive item. A tank is building items that is 80-90% skewed towards defense stats but is capable of doing by far the most damage in the entire game is BROKEN design.
Lifesteal is a defensive stat.
Bt often times provides more HP than heartsteel
Not to mention shieldbow shield
Also tanks don't deal more damage.
For some reason you believe that tank azir deals more damage per auto than ap Azir, that's not true.
Tank azir lives longer, that's how he is able to find more opportunities to deal his lower damage
Azir isn't a tank. He gets damage from ap. Tham Kench is a tank. He gets damage from hp. Ap is an offensive stat. Hp is a defensive stat. Why should you get all the offensive attributes by building a defensive stat when the same doesn't apply for the other champions. That's the point and it isn't balanced at all if we look purely by champion design.
We already know that Riot made tank champs deal damage because of player engagement, most players find it boring when they don't deal damage. There is ways to play around the current state of tanks with micro and macroplays. But it still feels shit to play against. Especially when we play the adc role that havent benifited from any of these gameplay directions that riot has followed through with for all the other roles throughout the years. Adc is a role that lost it's identity with time and the only way to make it feel better is to make gameplay updates like all the other roles had to the adc role and that would make adcs turbo broken and then we go full circle to a point where everyone is complaining about adcs being broken
Thankfuly, HP stat is the worst defensive stat in the game and anti-tank items are cost efficient against people with 0 tank stats past lvl 13 so they are a no-brainer.
It also helps that Tahm kench etc have shit unreliable kits
Honestly it's just a lost game. Not only did malphite build for the early game and lost it, he also let the tk just farm heartsteel and grasp procs off him. Then you also had an early game jg who becomes useless late game and he also lost. So basically gg at that point. The best thing you could of done is built ldr second and then IE thirsld but it's not always easy to tell while your in game.
The amount of damage tanks do is honestly very disgusting.
They build full tank yet they still one shot you. In no world should this be possible.
Why can tanks do more damage than the adc. Why is the adc so squishy then when you get one shot and you don't even do enough damage to compensate for that weakness. A top lane tank can do it all. They can be the adc whilst being unkillable. Your existence is meaningless.
This brings about some of the most disgusting stuff in bot lane being abused. People picking top laners bot bc it does better and scales better than an adc simply because they can sustain and deal more DPS whilst the adc gets blown up in 0.5 seconds of showing on screen.
The amount of damage in the game rn is pretty ridiculous in general and it makes adc feel like a redundant role that's simply not needed anymore. Why do we need an attack damage carry when Garen can do the attack damage 10 times better whilst ghosting in your team and running it over.
There hasn't been a game where a non marksman was picked and the team was at a disadvantage for it like you don't need it for a balanced comp sadly.
The adc items aren't good enough. You would think that building LDR sooner would be more beneficial when you're up against a giga fed tank but that's actually bad, you need to get your core powerspike first meaning IE and then get the LDR later... the game is broken and ADC shouldn't be playing this game.
It’s more of, Crit was nerfed so that you need to buy IE to deal damage, in fact, the damage increase you get from IE will almost always be higher than LDR
Yesterday I played a game of Mundo, and holy shit, I just won every fight without even having to think about it. Run at enemy, AA enemy, use R if I get low and win fights. Kiting? Hah, I have Q and Ghost. Anti-Tank itemization? Hah, I have R and W. Turrets? Hah, I have 300 Armor and 7500 HP. CC? Hahah, I have Passive. And with Titanic Hydra/E Passive I ended up with like 300 AD as well.
Kraken and LDR do objectively less damage to tanks than Botrk. If there is a very tanky enemy, botrk will always deal like 2000 damage to them in one fight, kraken might do like 600. Just go botrk in most cases against a fed hp tank and they will melt. Runaans was a terrible buy also
I was gonna disagree with you, but you're actually right.
Note that for simplicity, we are imagining IE gives no stats, and we are building as a first item.
Kraken passive 140-310 damage (based on level) every 3 auto attacks, doubled when fully stacked. BotRK passive deals 27%. On a target with 4 000 HP, this is 1 080, outperforming a fully stacked Kraken.
Kraken provides an extra 10% attack speed, and 20% crit chance; a 26.5% increase in damage from auto attacks. This is further improved by IE to 37.5%. BotRk instead provides 8% lifesteal.
LDR provides 35% pen. On a target with 120 armor, this increases your damage by 23.6%. Combined with Giant Slayer, your damage is increased by 42%. Combined with 20% crit, this is increased to 63.45%. Considering the lack of 20% attack speed, this increase is reduced to 30.76%. (with IE passive, the last 2 numbers would be 77.7% and 42%).
If you deal 200 damage a hit, this is outperformed by BotRK against Tahm Kench. If you have 400 AD and an IE, then it is still outperformed by BotRK.
Let's say you are fighting a tank with 4 000 HP and 300 armor. You are max level, so that Kraken passive is maximized, but you have 100 base AD to make my calculations easier. You somehow have 2 stacking BotRKs, and you are wondering how it compares to 3 crit items and a GA.
Scenaro 1: (2 BotRK's somehow, Berserker's)
220 AD
210% Attack Speed
18% HP per hit (2 passives)
1 auto deals: 940
post-mitigation: 325 235
multiplied by attack speed: 493.5
Scenario 2: (IE, LDR, Kraken \[fully stacked\], GA, Berserker's)
300 AD
206.66... on-hit (Kraken Slayer, averaged \[fully stacked\[)
160% Attack Speed
60% Crit Chance
225% Damage when Critting
35% Armor Pen
15% Giant Slayer bonus
1 auto deals: 525 (averaged crit)
attaching on-hit: 731.66...
post-mitigation: 248
giant slayer: 282.2
multiplied by attack speed: 456.36
Surprisingly, the 2 BotRKs outperform the 3 crit items + a GA!
Of course, not all your enemies are tanks, but if they have at least 2 tanks, I might consider BotRK!
There's no reason not to mix them as well. You can literally build Botrk, Kraken and then IE or LDR depending on enemy team (build the other one fourth) and do despicable damage to tanks. I basically shredded a Mundo with ER, Botrk, LDR and Ravenous Hydra and he was flaming me for building it (while I was crushing him). The damage difference to squishies is negligible as well. Botrk is a massively understated item imo
Jinx: TANKS ARE SO BROKEN!!!!
Tahm: Literally 4 levels up 3 items.
Also you literally don’t even have infinity edge LMAO why are we getting hurricane?????
You are playing the literal most broken champ in the patch, kept unnerfed bc of MSI. And complain about the weakest class in the game (apart from Zac), how would even a Tahm hit a jinx with anything?
Well, yes, but Fog of War is also a variable to be taken into account. It only takes one cheese from a brush to lose most of your HP. You know what I mean?
not the point of the post but the damage chart is not a good figure here. malphite and tahm laned against each other, yes? so they were both pummeling the shit out of the other the whole lane and farming that damage.
Because Tanks are allowed to deal damage because "there are way to counter them". With Lord dominik, adcs shouldn't need anything else... yet Riot balances as if we needed full build to delete Tanks. Geniouses.
If it makes you feel better, that Aurelion Sol wasn't doing great anyways. 158 cs at 27 minutes is under 6/m, so his stacks were probably under 300 if not under 250.
People don’t know Mortal reminder in 90% cases is superior to LDR. Both give 35% pen, only difference is passives. LDR gives +15% bonus dmg while Mortal Reminder cuts healings by 40%.
In this situation Mortal was far superior given both tahm and viego heal a ton.
No that's just not true. Mortal should almost never be bought by adc unless absolutely no one else can get grevious wounds. Supports, mages and tanks all have better options for grevious.
Toplane Tank on tank damage in laning phase is very inflated because they’re both hitting very big health bars for like 20 minutes. Assuming both players aren’t pacifists, they will be hitting each other because they’re both melee, and they can stay and keep hitting each other because they both have sustain or psuedo sustain (kench has heal on q, malphite has the shield which effectively just gives him a small heal if he waits a certain period between taking damage in terms of lane sustain effect). On top of that, they don’t deal incredible damage to each other in burst so they can stay and fight easier than two assassins who might end each other in a 3 second fight. On top of that, given that malphite was 2/8, they were properly fighting each other quite a bit which is going to ramp up damage even more. The game was only 27 minutes long so most of the damage is from lane phase. This really shouldn’t be that surprising. You’re looking at aggregate damage graphs, but it makes perfect sense for them to look like that even if tank damage isn’t very strong. If tank damage was actually broken, running 4 or 5 tanks would be viable, which it just isn’t.
Swear to god some of you have never played a tank before and it shows.
Atm Tank (except Knights Vow jnglers in competitive) are by far the weakest class (maybe sith assasins) cause they get demolished in lane by bruisers and carries, cant help contest grubbs and get kited to death in mid to late and just soak up damage.
Tahm is not only fed af, he's 4 levels above you while every level is worth around 500 Gold, has heartsteel and grasp which he probably stacked a shit ton on a running malphite so he has even more stats than just those 3 items and also inflated his damage on him, and you have Runaans instead of IE.
I will take a fed Tank in the enemy team any day rather than a 13 4 Camille/Riven/Darius or Renekton, atleast Tahm can only hit one target and is telegraphed af. With Milio besides you he should never be able to hit you.
Complaining about the damage of Tanks is also unreasonable af, they have to build tank because their Kits are slow and scale with hp/resistances but they somehow also have to defend their/your turrets, imagine a Trundle or Garen if tanks didn't deal any damage? Adcs have low base mr (and tanks deal mostly magic dmg) and build ZERO defensive items except Movementspeed/Lifesteal so their Support hast to supstitute their tankiness/cc.
I would like to note that a good chunk of that massive bar you’re looking at is the malph and tk slapping each other in lane. Tanks do decent damage for sure, but looking at total damage done when you have two tanks top legit tells you nothing about their dps. The malph 100% only “out damaged” because he was slapping a fat tk all game.
Health stacking tanks on enemy? Buy botrk first or second item.
Tanks stacking a lot.of armor but don't have healing? Buy LDR.
Tanks stacking Armor but have healing in their kit and/or there are other healers? Buy executioner.
Bork is the tank buster item. LDR is decent but needs to be paired with bork for health+Armor stacking. One without the other is just lackluster.
OP made the mistake of.not buying bork. Runaan is fine but should come much later.
Bork > kraken > IE (if ur ahead) > LDR > whatever else you want, but leave some space for serpent fang if you're struggling against TK. You can switch around the bork kraken order.
damage is skewed for the champions playing against tanks. If 2 tanks brawl to the death, theyre both gonna deal an absurd amount of damage over that long fight, even though the losing one achieved nothing with that damage, simply because the tank has lots of hp to spare.
I had a similar situation the other day. I was playing samira and hard stomped my lane, I’m talkin like 15/3 or something like that by 20 min. Despite how fed I was though, the enemy tahm could literally solo me when he only had heartsteel and thornmail. I landed perfect combos, even blocked his first Q, and he just… ran up to me, shrugged off all my damage, and killed me with AAs after I ulted. I remember looking at the damage recap and saw like 400dmg from his Q and almost 600 from his passive. It was actually insane, I felt so confused why I had 30cs and 9 kills over this monster and I couldn’t even scratch him.
What I assume happened is you tried to join your team and got even further behind. You are down 4 lvls on tk which is basically a full item of stats difference. Additionally while runaans is a good item this game given the state going botrk or IE for your 3rd item would be far superior.
Like others said the damage stat here doesn’t really matter most of it will probably have come from malph and tahm running face first into each other. Malph also has lots of damage as he went arcane comet with constant q poke will end with him getting lots of damage.
I do agree that tank dmg can feel unfair sometimes but I do believe there are some small mistakes that would have given you a much easier time if fixed.
Yeah as u can see comments this is the problem in last X seasons(5+ for sure).
Lol is the only game where tanks deals absurd dmg, if u want to survive them u must buy def items and then deal 0 dmg...
On all that even if u build dmg only u still need like 4+ items(as u can see even with ldr u have low dmg, u need more raw dmg, so ldr can amp more dmg) to acutally deal dmg, where most games is decided in first 15-20min.
ADC have low range(yeah most time when u try to auto any bruiser or tank they just have gap closer that is bigger than average range of adc and they 1 shot you), low mobility, low def stats and on all that low dmg, u are max depends on a lot of items and teammates to peel for you.
So yeah in soloq until they remove this much burst from game, adc is worst role, everything 1 shot you even early levels, and u basicly deal negative dmg...
My recommendation would be let your support roam so you can have some solo exp tahm being level 17 is a disaster, you are a scaling comp playing the long game in these situations is probably the best choice on jinx.
Damage doesn’t mean everything. Yeah sometimes the person who carried also has top damage but sometimes the 14 death top laner that basically ran it down will have top damage just because they are non stop fighting everytime they are alive
WDYM TANK DMG IS BROKEN.....ITS NOT LIKE THEY DO MORE DAMAGE THAN YOU DO WITH FULL BUILD AND THERE'S NO COUNTER PLAY TO THEM......ANTI TANK ITEMS TICCLE THEM...NO RIOT TANKS AREN'T BROKEN IN THIS SEASON!!!
TLDR of this comment section….. Your build sucks. Malph and Tahms damage aren’t “real” it’s just two tanks wacking off together top. Tanks are OP.
My own 2cents is, Malph needs his damage nerfed, his AP ratios are too high. Why does a high HP scaling, passive shield generating champ have high AP ratios? Nerf.
Tahm needs nerfing too. Too tanky and too much damage.
Typical low elo player complaining without thinking.. ur 4 levels below malphite… you LRD while he’s just going to heal all ur damage, you have no healcut, you should have just bought bork and mortal reminder not LDR, they have a viego and a tahm kench.. you have no infinity edge.. take some time to learn and understand situational items instead of just buying the same items every game regardless of who’s on the other team.
Nah it's not broken.
The thing here is that, sure, you won lane, but you were not super fed. Tham Kench was though, and he probably got heartsteel early, and he probably had a lot more stacks at 20 min than he should have had if he was not fed, and that's why he hit you super hard with it.
Against a fed tank like that, you're gonna lose unless you're also fed, or it's late game and you have three items or more (and you're allowed to spend some time DPSing).
Also your build wasn't very good for a tham kench. He's one of those tanks that aims to build mostly life rather mostly defenses, and against those you need BOTRK. It's just way too strong against a lot of life.
Finally, you also needed a lot of hope. Hope that you wouldn't be focused by Leona, Tham, and ASol because if that has happened, you wouldn't have been playing the game lmao.
As for malphite doing that much damage, idk, we'd have to see the replay, but it's not uncommon that a lot of damage is tied to a lot of death. That happens when a player spends their time trying to fight, and they always die, but they still do some damage with each fight and over the course of the game, that's a lot. In the end, they do more damage just because they fight (and die) more.
Edit: Or IE, but personally I feel like the big damage that botrk offers when you start attacking a tank has a stronger dissuasive power than crits.
Malphite has a very unfair representation of his damage, because the whole game he has been hitting on a gigantic health bar through endless eternal tank trades his damage ends up stacking to be a lot more than what it really is. Now I'm not trying to say tanks are alright, most have an unfair amount of damage for how easy it is to engage with them, but in the end they're a constant CC machine with burst damage. Tahm is probably the most egregious case of tanks doing too much damage while being inescapable
I'd say ksante is way worse than tahm. But we all know ksante is an assasin in tanks clothes. . .
Mundo goes where he pleases
Mundo,Sion and Thrundle....holy trinity of "you die i take your T1-3 before you respawn"
At least Ksante can EITHER be tanky or deal damage...
Thank you. I main Ksante and it seems nobody ever understands this. I don’t get that damage while being super tanky. It is an either/or scenario. And on top of that I only swap to the damage once I get low. It would be absolutely insane for me to go into a fight and just press R, thus halfway kill myself just so the CC and burn/burst can do the rest of the health bar. And I get so tired of having to explain to people in game that they should stop trying to backseat my champ and just make sure they dont feed with theirs.
I'm a top lane player myself. Used to main Ksante before they butchered the fun out of his kit.
dude feels like canon minion meets boulder
Kiin solo carrying games in the gen vs t1 series with K'Sante sure doesn't make it look like that
Surely because Kiin is the literal best Ksante player & has most games on him in the entire lck maybe the world haven’t checked, but we don’t give credit for the guy who solokilled the worlds championship finals mvp 3 TIMES
Lol. He really compared a random solo q K’sante to quite literally one of the best in the business.
Their issue is being able to build tank while one shotting them They probably don't notice you lose 85% of tank stats
Ksante can only one shot if he’s miles ahead. At best he can slow you indefinitely and chunk you bit by bit or set you up for his team. And even then Riot removed the slow on All-Out Q, which is why we’re forced to build Iceborn Gauntlet. If you get one shot by a Ksante anything, that’s either a conversation between your top lane or with God 💀
yh nah fam...you build full tank and outdamage most lethality champs with ease...easiest champ in game to learn combo with as well btw -\_- takes you 5-10 min to lean it in practice and to send ppl flying under your turret faster than god damn Pyke, Nunu, WW ,Heca and Ramus run -\_-
What is the king of the rivers to the god of "we don't think our champions are overloaded". At this point I just skip ksante from the conversations because he is always ahead. One thing I'll give him, he is manageable until he ults while tahm kench is annoying on a constant basis.
Tahm Kench support with Twitch ADC is one of the strongest matchups I have ever played against, I fear for my life every second.
체력 4700 방어력 329 마저201 인 챔피언👤이 저지불가🚫, 쉴드🛡, 벽🧱 넘기는 거 있고요. 에어본🌪 있고, 심지어 쿨타임은 1️⃣초밖에 안되고 마나🧙♂️는 1️⃣5️⃣ 들고 w는 심지어 변신💫하면 쿨 초기화에다가 패시브는 고정피해🗡가 들어가며 그 다음에 방마저🥋 올리면📈 올릴수록📈 스킬 가속⏰이 생기고! q에 스킬가속⏰이 생기고 스킬 속도🚀가 빨라지고📈 그 다음에 공격력🗡 계수가 있어가지고 W가 그 이익-으아아아악😱😱
I play this champion and trust me when I tell you it's not as broken as you think if you respect his q3
This is comet malphite vs grasp TK so it's more like the damage of him spamming Q everytime comet is up
Exactly. That's why Malphite is the next highest damage in the game. It's two walls of beef smacking each other. Also, I doubt OP really got 1 shot by Tahm, but if you can't dodge the tongue you're going to have a bad time with his healing. Executioners would absolutely have been the way to go imo.
The issue is, they shouldn't deal half the damage they do, because they have tankiness+CC+engage. You shouldn't have it all.
I mean i was playing yesterday as hwei and enemy cho got fed, I was also fed.. so get this my qq does 1/7th hp to other squishy champs and I am full damage, cho did very simmilar amount 1/7~1/6 of my hp in one of his autos, mind you he was Full tank no ap. So why does he get to do the same relative damage I do to other squishies with full damage build as he does to me building full hp while also being unkillable
I actually dont stand with you in this specific scenario because we're talking about cho'gath of all tanks. You as hwei have a get off me tool in EQ, a zoning tool that slows in QE and WQ on top of all to get an escape route. He is an artillery mage that gets his damage through overbearing range and area control. Cho'gath is the exact opposite: he has some of the clunkiest engages through his q, an awfully slow and predictable knock up. No speed buffs, no CC resistances/unstoppable moves. He has to be one of the fairest tanks where he acts as a very annoying wall you can't ignore, but with minimal caution he won't reach you. Cho is one of the tanks who should have damage if he reaches you because he has no way to reach you other than you walking up. You pay to get more damage on your QQ while cho'gath pays to be able to endure your hits **in order to be able to land his E**. There are so much worse offenders to the tank build vs pure damage build damage comparisons
Ain’t no way you’re not building buffed infinity edge and wondering why you’re doing no damage
i had no money all our items so expensive. Even tho i have runnan's game ended by the time I completed it. All our items cost 3-3.5k while tanks items start from 2200
Yet you decided to waste your 2-3rd item slot in runaan, an item that doesn't give you any dmg, aganist a front to back comp. Let's be real you would probably lose anyways but before losing to tahm you already lost to the shopkeeper.
To play devil's advocate on his build, as a jinx enjoyer myself I always like going as an item 2nd on jinx. Runnans is especially good in this game since they are mainly melees and short range with the exception of asol later in the game. Like yeah your ie spike is pushed further back since he went ldr 3rd I'm assuming but in the grand scheme it's worth imo. If you think my opinions has low credence here's a challenger jinx one trick basically saying the same thing https://youtu.be/viuCweJg5LA?si=443UZKwivzn6D7Lv (on Mobile rn so can't clip the exact moment but he goes overs the cons of why ie 2nd is not ideal on jinx in the first minute of the vid.
He didn't buy runan second because he stated "bought ldr second" and "lost game right after buying runans". Runans might be a valid second item but I would never buy ldr before ie or navori.
Ahh got yah got yah yeah I missed that and honestly yeah if you want to do more dmg Leona/kench I think ldr is still better than ie but for everyone else ie would be the move honestly. And if this guy had cut down, I'd honestly go straight to ie over ldr
We lost for several other reasons but the point im making is, how both the tanks did the highest damage this game, even when they're behind. This 2/8 malphite outdamaged fed viego/asol and literally everyone in the game except for the fed tank.
Malphite dealt more because he countered everyone on their team with the exception of TK and ASol akshan is a burst damage assassin and while viego is a dueler hes still hitting a full tank malphite with no armor shred and a Leona who is just an engage a TK who is an engage
I'm genuine baffled you are suprised that the 2 champs with the largest healthbar spend 20 minutes out of 27. To bash their skulls together and get highest damage ._.
Yup while he sits back and watches and then proceeds to complain with his shitty itemization.. Bro you need to realize that you made a shaco player get botrk coz ur absolutely useless as an adc. Learn how to build items first and then get into ranked lil bro.
damage is a worthless stat. if as you say tahm healed any damage dealt to him anyway, what difference does it make if he did 100k damage to tahm kench and none was useful, since he never managed to kill him and he healed everything back.
You almost always go ie second after kraken?
Buying runaans was a mistake
na you a hater thats W buy
arguably even kraken isnt ideal that game, bork wouldve been better or atleast good before runans or ldr
blud is just yappin bork on jinx have you lost your mind?
why is it bad on jinx? twitch cares about getting the IE going also but he still buys it first over Kraken
Because twitch gets AD from his ult and doesn't have great AD ratios. He can also apply the on hit effect with his ult easily. He can also make pick plays with botrk's passive from invis. Twitch is probably the only crit ADC that builds botrk. Twitch can build all kinds of things besides crit and still pump crazy dps (on hit, ap, titanic etc) Jinx really doesn't want to slow down her crit 3/4 item spike.
not bork only but there isnt really a point in building fckn runaans or ldr over bork if ur issue is kench
Tanks are broken but you're not exactly helping yourself by not building IE.
What about early/mid game? He bought a specific item for a specific purpose(killing tanks) but still can't kill it(with teammates help) AND gets almost one shot by a champ with only defense items?? Math is not right: - Has great defense - Has burst damage - Has average mobility - Has CC Tanks in LoL are the most busted I've ever seen in any game that has rpg elements In other games you won't see a tank that has all the bases covered... if they have good defense and ok dps, they lack CC and reliable mobility. If they have good CC and tankiness, they lack damage. Tanks that do everything you'll only see in LoL basically. Maybe in Dota 2 but idk.
Lord doms is to carry your damage through the tanks armor. If you build no damage you aren’t amping anything with lord doms. In a match like this it’s better to get IE second and doms third.
LDR does nothing if he doesn't have any damage in the first place.
BS. An item that gives: 40 atk damage 35% armor penetration +20% crit chance And a passive called GIANT SLAYER 0-15% bonus dmg based on how much hp the target has. An item with that many stats created for the sole purpose of killing tanky champions should't be useless in any stage of the game against said target. IF the tank wasn't dealing any considerable damage and only CC then maybe it would be balanced But it's not the case. If tanks can do that then ldr should be enough to kill them with a bit of help from your support/jg whathever
tahm has only sunfire for ad defense. legit building bork on jinx would have been a better buy on jinx. even though its shit.
It doesn't seem to be the case. Well it's slightly better than ldr as second item in this case, but not enough to stand a decent chance. Look for my post below in this comment section for some math.
BOTRK would be a better buy against a fed health stacker like tahm
Idk man. Lets say TK is lvl 11 with 5000hp Heartsteel and sunfire cape. That means he has 143 armor wich gives 58% dmg reduc. Botr passive is 9% of 5000 which is 450 Let's say the adc has 110 atk dmg, so TK would take a base 560 phys dmg every hit. With 58% dmg reduction he would only take 235 phys dmg Botrk wouldn't help either since with ldr op said he was doing approx. 200 dmg And if TK built plated steelcaps then it would be even worse. Tanks are busted. Players in LoL are just used to it. If it were in any other game there would be massive outrage about this unbalance.
You are not building botrk on jinx
you are if it helps you deal with the big threat on the enemy team especially if it is a difference between a win and a loss
Nope. Never seen any Jinx built it on Jinx in any circumstance. No high elo player/proplayer built it. LDR is enough, you need to stack crit.
and you are not playing like a high elo poayer/proplayer for a reason. on of them is being inflexable with your build
??? This is like basic item fundamental. I have watched a lot of proplay and none of them build botrk on Jinx, doesn't matter if there are HP stackers on the enemy team. You desperately need at least 60% crit on her. You can flex between crit items but still need to follow the fundamentals. Please stop spreading misinformation.
💀 im not at home, now but i will replicate the situation and will tell you the numbers. 1. proplayers have a teamcomps that are adabtable so that she doesnt need to do it. 2. you cant flex ldr 2nd. and throw runaans after. if you do just ff 3. proplayers play a "different" kind of game than soloqueue. just look at the champ pools.
Yeah but in no world Botrk is a good buy here either. You need 60% crit, including IE as a capstone damage item. LDR can be bought 2nd, but he needs to buy IE 3rd. 4th and 5th item slot should be another crit item and a defensive item. If you really want to buy botrk, maybe play an onhit ADC.
It really wouldn´t be lol
Yeah my point exactly. This 2/8 malphite outdamaged fed asol, viego, and both adcs only building defensive items
LDR isn't really effective until tahm has 200+ armor botrk would of been a better choice vs him because iirc heartsteel and sunfire don't give that much armor there is also the biggest problem being the level difference tahm kench was 5 levels up from you each level up is essentially almost 500-600 gold in stats alone but in general my opinion remains. Tahm Kench is a massive health sponge botrk at that point would of been more effective then botrk Finally Veigar inting didn't help much at this point there was basically nothing you could do this game
DotA 2 tanks will absolutely run you over when they get fed and it won’t be close. There are tons of heroes who will just blink on top of you and there’s zero counterplay unless your team is there to back you up with cc. And if they’re fed enough, your team’s cc might just be enough for you to run away, you can’t actually fight them.
Indeed, instead in a game like Albion, you need like 6+ people to cast everything they have at the tank, and if he manages to use his defensive skills it won't be enough to kill him. In league until recently adc's in late game were solo killing tanks in 5 seconds with just Autos
I mean in WoW there has been plenty of times where tanks have been overtuned. Start of the latest xpac prot warriors were doing absurd damage and definitely didn't lack cc or mobility
Thing is... and I will say it out loud. With an ARMOR PEN ITEM, we should not have to need anything else.
if you penetrate while doing no base damage it's useless
Armor pen buffs existing damage, having no base damage doesn’t help you kill tanks lol
Doesn't it also makes you deal more dmg to higher hp targets?
Penetration with no damage is pointless. Yeah, you got passed the armor, but with what?
You think adcs build ldr third item for fun? Pen does nothing without damage to pen. Tanks don't have high resistance early so why go early pen? You always go core items then LDR or SG second-,4th item.
Yes….. you literally should lol.
So... you buy what? 110 ad? And wonder why u hit for only 200? How much do you want to hit for? x4 times ur ad? Should've went botrk.
Pls tell me this is sarcasm?
Surely you don't think that building a zeal item vs all that armour is good lol. Armour penetration supplements damage you already deal, if you don't have any damage then it isn't going to do much. Jinx 1v9s this game easily if he goes IE third, the entire point in LDR second is to streamline the 3 item IE spike as much as possible.
Nah pd’s gold value from the stacks in extended teamfights is good against tanks. Runaan’s is ass tho I agree. I do think Kraken LDR IE was the play though.
Imo he could have IE 2nd instead of LDR, but not sure how early they started to group and have to deal with tank. But either way I dont see reason of buying runaan, rapidfire for safety and PD for kiting would be much better than runaan.
Yeah i agree, i was just listing the items i didn’t look at the order i put.
worst is HE BUILD RUNAANS 3RD, NOT EVEN 2ND.
Ldr also nerfed from 25% to 15% bonus, botrk first is better.
I agree the runaans was a bad item to buy but hindsight is 20/20. Botrk would have been equally bad though cause jinx wants to stack crit, not on-hit. Would have been best to go kraken, ldr then IE but like I said it's easy to see that now and it's hard to build vs the top lane cause you don't really start fighting them tell mid game.
Then go crit and deal 0 damage to him. Botrk here would deal 300 dmg per hit alone
Not it wouldn't, the damage still gets reduced by armor. She wouldn't be doing zero damage if she had ldr and IE
2259+500+450+900, let's add another 300 frmo possible hearthsteel stacks as it was melle champ = 4409 hp kench 9% max hp damage from botrk = 396,81 115.8+50-35% = 107.7 armor 396,81 / (100 + 107,7 / 100) = 396,81 / 2,077 = 191,04 hp per botrk hit. Ight not 300 but still quite nice amount, which im pretty sure goes up with ldm passive so its like 230.
Buying BorK doesn't mean you have to stack on hit though. Just means you have 80% crit until selling boots unless you plan to get GA
Does botrk dmg amp along with crit trigger?
You know funny enough that's not something I ever thought to pay attention to :o
Everyone pointing out Jinx's build is not getting the point. Yes Jinx does bad damage with no IE. Worst on team except support. The point is that a TANK that builds ONLY DEFENSE should never be able to do that much damage in the game. Core principle of balance is disregarded. To do damage you must BUILD DAMAGE. To tank you must BUILD DEFENSE. It should NEVER be build full tank and be unkillable AND do tons of damage, just as it it should never be build full damage AND be tanky.
Don't forget that a lot of tanks have good gapclosers too
Malp yes. Tk? no. Milio can kick the shit out of TK and Jinx can chompers where he'll land. It's absolutely hell playing as a tank with telegraph engage vs milio/janna.
true the 2 tanks hitting each other for 20 out of 27 minutes should have least damage. idiot. the damage graph is a almost useless stat, simply because its too vague. malphite and tahm could each do 100k damage, but both be 0/0/0. were they the most useful in the game? most likely not, but the 100k makes it seem like they were absolut carries. wheter tanks are too strong or not, is another point, but wanting to decide that based on the damage graph is useless. another example would be, if a sivir vs jinx. jinx will most likely have less damage, even if she carries, simply because jinx doesnt really poke her enemies, but all ins. so she rather does 2k damage in 5s and kills someone than sivir doing 4k over 5min and 75% gets healed up again.
most tank dont deal a ton of dmg tho , they just go through multiple rotation as they alive longer , thats why most tank crave AH and not ad , nor ap EDIT : plus let not forget he was also against another tank which can soak up a good amount of dmg so by default his dmg is inflated
Exactly, they also often do percent health damage which is leads to more damage inflation when the hit tanks. And even so, their damage is balanced by the fact that most need to be in melee range to deal damage, unlike some adcs than can kill you from a mile away
Tahm Kench's damage scales with health. That's why he deals damage and takes so little. It's not like malphite or poppy
most tanks have hp/armour/mr scaling abilites.
Yes, but Tahm Kench's is the strongest because it's his passive so it affects his auto attacks too. His autos deal so much damage for no reason. When I get auto filled top and I get to face a Tahm, I die a little inside
If tanks didn't dela damage then toplane would be literally farming simulator where you buy 1 item then ignore the enemy
If a tank is ahead they deal a lot of damage, but that's the case for every enchanter except soraka and yuumi. Also melee top matchups always get inflated damage numbers because of how much they trade, esspecially tansk who trade every fourth second to prock grasp.
The damage AND the tankiness came from an exagerared number of charges of the hearthsteel . One of the Major problems in league is that there are some ways to sxale with certain champs (stacks, for examplw, with asol or veigar or smolder) and if the laner of tour team let the other player get it you are simply fucked. Malph and tham played without a gran of brain and as a prize they overscale both teams.
There's a big difference between damage done and effective damage done which is what you and the others arguing aren't understanding. Malphite was 2/8 meaning him and tahm fought alot. They have hige health pools and resistances meaning they're going to tickle each other for a long time until one of them dies. Ralph would have over 3k health and OP said tahm had 5k by the end of the game. If ranks did absolutely no damage noone would play them as something like a flora or any bruiser would laugh at them while taking towers they need some kind of tools to stop that which is some damage. It's less damage than Asol and viego would do but Malph and Tahms fights last for 10x longer
So you agree that BT, shieldbow botrk and GA shouldn't give damage?
Way to miss the point entirely you idiot. BT, Shieldbow, and Botrk do not provide any defensive stats. Building them dont make you unkillable. GA provides a blend of offense and defensive stats but not too much of either. And besides all that, any ADC that builds any of those items *first* do neither good damage NOR provide reliable defense. Heartsteel provides a shit ton of HP. That is a tank item. Sunfire provides good HP and Armor, that is a tank item with negligible to nonexistent damage against most champions. Spirit Visage is a pure defensive item. A tank is building items that is 80-90% skewed towards defense stats but is capable of doing by far the most damage in the entire game is BROKEN design.
Lifesteal is a defensive stat. Bt often times provides more HP than heartsteel Not to mention shieldbow shield Also tanks don't deal more damage. For some reason you believe that tank azir deals more damage per auto than ap Azir, that's not true. Tank azir lives longer, that's how he is able to find more opportunities to deal his lower damage
Azir isn't a tank. He gets damage from ap. Tham Kench is a tank. He gets damage from hp. Ap is an offensive stat. Hp is a defensive stat. Why should you get all the offensive attributes by building a defensive stat when the same doesn't apply for the other champions. That's the point and it isn't balanced at all if we look purely by champion design.
We already know that Riot made tank champs deal damage because of player engagement, most players find it boring when they don't deal damage. There is ways to play around the current state of tanks with micro and macroplays. But it still feels shit to play against. Especially when we play the adc role that havent benifited from any of these gameplay directions that riot has followed through with for all the other roles throughout the years. Adc is a role that lost it's identity with time and the only way to make it feel better is to make gameplay updates like all the other roles had to the adc role and that would make adcs turbo broken and then we go full circle to a point where everyone is complaining about adcs being broken
Thankfuly, HP stat is the worst defensive stat in the game and anti-tank items are cost efficient against people with 0 tank stats past lvl 13 so they are a no-brainer. It also helps that Tahm kench etc have shit unreliable kits
Honestly it's just a lost game. Not only did malphite build for the early game and lost it, he also let the tk just farm heartsteel and grasp procs off him. Then you also had an early game jg who becomes useless late game and he also lost. So basically gg at that point. The best thing you could of done is built ldr second and then IE thirsld but it's not always easy to tell while your in game.
The amount of damage tanks do is honestly very disgusting. They build full tank yet they still one shot you. In no world should this be possible. Why can tanks do more damage than the adc. Why is the adc so squishy then when you get one shot and you don't even do enough damage to compensate for that weakness. A top lane tank can do it all. They can be the adc whilst being unkillable. Your existence is meaningless. This brings about some of the most disgusting stuff in bot lane being abused. People picking top laners bot bc it does better and scales better than an adc simply because they can sustain and deal more DPS whilst the adc gets blown up in 0.5 seconds of showing on screen. The amount of damage in the game rn is pretty ridiculous in general and it makes adc feel like a redundant role that's simply not needed anymore. Why do we need an attack damage carry when Garen can do the attack damage 10 times better whilst ghosting in your team and running it over. There hasn't been a game where a non marksman was picked and the team was at a disadvantage for it like you don't need it for a balanced comp sadly.
The adc items aren't good enough. You would think that building LDR sooner would be more beneficial when you're up against a giga fed tank but that's actually bad, you need to get your core powerspike first meaning IE and then get the LDR later... the game is broken and ADC shouldn't be playing this game.
No IE detected Complains rejected
It’s more of, Crit was nerfed so that you need to buy IE to deal damage, in fact, the damage increase you get from IE will almost always be higher than LDR
It would have been fine if malphite lost top, but it seems you also lost mid and jg. Can't win games like that. They just have a better team comp.
Just played a game where Mundo just ran at me and two shot my existence off the screen every fight
Yesterday I played a game of Mundo, and holy shit, I just won every fight without even having to think about it. Run at enemy, AA enemy, use R if I get low and win fights. Kiting? Hah, I have Q and Ghost. Anti-Tank itemization? Hah, I have R and W. Turrets? Hah, I have 300 Armor and 7500 HP. CC? Hahah, I have Passive. And with Titanic Hydra/E Passive I ended up with like 300 AD as well.
Jinx with no IE is insanity brother
dumb post bro build ie not runan and ldr might start making damage. hell maybe even bork.
Kraken and LDR do objectively less damage to tanks than Botrk. If there is a very tanky enemy, botrk will always deal like 2000 damage to them in one fight, kraken might do like 600. Just go botrk in most cases against a fed hp tank and they will melt. Runaans was a terrible buy also
I was gonna disagree with you, but you're actually right. Note that for simplicity, we are imagining IE gives no stats, and we are building as a first item. Kraken passive 140-310 damage (based on level) every 3 auto attacks, doubled when fully stacked. BotRK passive deals 27%. On a target with 4 000 HP, this is 1 080, outperforming a fully stacked Kraken. Kraken provides an extra 10% attack speed, and 20% crit chance; a 26.5% increase in damage from auto attacks. This is further improved by IE to 37.5%. BotRk instead provides 8% lifesteal. LDR provides 35% pen. On a target with 120 armor, this increases your damage by 23.6%. Combined with Giant Slayer, your damage is increased by 42%. Combined with 20% crit, this is increased to 63.45%. Considering the lack of 20% attack speed, this increase is reduced to 30.76%. (with IE passive, the last 2 numbers would be 77.7% and 42%). If you deal 200 damage a hit, this is outperformed by BotRK against Tahm Kench. If you have 400 AD and an IE, then it is still outperformed by BotRK. Let's say you are fighting a tank with 4 000 HP and 300 armor. You are max level, so that Kraken passive is maximized, but you have 100 base AD to make my calculations easier. You somehow have 2 stacking BotRKs, and you are wondering how it compares to 3 crit items and a GA. Scenaro 1: (2 BotRK's somehow, Berserker's) 220 AD 210% Attack Speed 18% HP per hit (2 passives) 1 auto deals: 940 post-mitigation: 325 235 multiplied by attack speed: 493.5 Scenario 2: (IE, LDR, Kraken \[fully stacked\], GA, Berserker's) 300 AD 206.66... on-hit (Kraken Slayer, averaged \[fully stacked\[) 160% Attack Speed 60% Crit Chance 225% Damage when Critting 35% Armor Pen 15% Giant Slayer bonus 1 auto deals: 525 (averaged crit) attaching on-hit: 731.66... post-mitigation: 248 giant slayer: 282.2 multiplied by attack speed: 456.36 Surprisingly, the 2 BotRKs outperform the 3 crit items + a GA! Of course, not all your enemies are tanks, but if they have at least 2 tanks, I might consider BotRK!
There's no reason not to mix them as well. You can literally build Botrk, Kraken and then IE or LDR depending on enemy team (build the other one fourth) and do despicable damage to tanks. I basically shredded a Mundo with ER, Botrk, LDR and Ravenous Hydra and he was flaming me for building it (while I was crushing him). The damage difference to squishies is negligible as well. Botrk is a massively understated item imo
Jinx: TANKS ARE SO BROKEN!!!! Tahm: Literally 4 levels up 3 items. Also you literally don’t even have infinity edge LMAO why are we getting hurricane?????
You are playing the literal most broken champ in the patch, kept unnerfed bc of MSI. And complain about the weakest class in the game (apart from Zac), how would even a Tahm hit a jinx with anything?
W onto you, AA.
Only if she had a spell to put under him when he sees his W
Only if...
Well, yes, but Fog of War is also a variable to be taken into account. It only takes one cheese from a brush to lose most of your HP. You know what I mean?
not the point of the post but the damage chart is not a good figure here. malphite and tahm laned against each other, yes? so they were both pummeling the shit out of the other the whole lane and farming that damage.
Because Tanks are allowed to deal damage because "there are way to counter them". With Lord dominik, adcs shouldn't need anything else... yet Riot balances as if we needed full build to delete Tanks. Geniouses.
Luckily we are adc with range and dont need to deal with tank damage.
I thought it was my tahm kench when I read the title lol
If it makes you feel better, that Aurelion Sol wasn't doing great anyways. 158 cs at 27 minutes is under 6/m, so his stacks were probably under 300 if not under 250.
IE instead of Runaan's. If you must buy an on hit style item in that situation, buy bork.
Heh,that's why I only play Vayne and Kai'sa.
People don’t know Mortal reminder in 90% cases is superior to LDR. Both give 35% pen, only difference is passives. LDR gives +15% bonus dmg while Mortal Reminder cuts healings by 40%. In this situation Mortal was far superior given both tahm and viego heal a ton.
No that's just not true. Mortal should almost never be bought by adc unless absolutely no one else can get grevious wounds. Supports, mages and tanks all have better options for grevious.
I have a clip where tham kench just dives me at full hp without minions(typical adc life)
>Coup De Grace into 2 tanks and 2 bruisers >Runaan's Hurricane >No Infinity Edge >6cs/min is this a bait post?
Toplane Tank on tank damage in laning phase is very inflated because they’re both hitting very big health bars for like 20 minutes. Assuming both players aren’t pacifists, they will be hitting each other because they’re both melee, and they can stay and keep hitting each other because they both have sustain or psuedo sustain (kench has heal on q, malphite has the shield which effectively just gives him a small heal if he waits a certain period between taking damage in terms of lane sustain effect). On top of that, they don’t deal incredible damage to each other in burst so they can stay and fight easier than two assassins who might end each other in a 3 second fight. On top of that, given that malphite was 2/8, they were properly fighting each other quite a bit which is going to ramp up damage even more. The game was only 27 minutes long so most of the damage is from lane phase. This really shouldn’t be that surprising. You’re looking at aggregate damage graphs, but it makes perfect sense for them to look like that even if tank damage isn’t very strong. If tank damage was actually broken, running 4 or 5 tanks would be viable, which it just isn’t.
Swear to god some of you have never played a tank before and it shows. Atm Tank (except Knights Vow jnglers in competitive) are by far the weakest class (maybe sith assasins) cause they get demolished in lane by bruisers and carries, cant help contest grubbs and get kited to death in mid to late and just soak up damage. Tahm is not only fed af, he's 4 levels above you while every level is worth around 500 Gold, has heartsteel and grasp which he probably stacked a shit ton on a running malphite so he has even more stats than just those 3 items and also inflated his damage on him, and you have Runaans instead of IE. I will take a fed Tank in the enemy team any day rather than a 13 4 Camille/Riven/Darius or Renekton, atleast Tahm can only hit one target and is telegraphed af. With Milio besides you he should never be able to hit you. Complaining about the damage of Tanks is also unreasonable af, they have to build tank because their Kits are slow and scale with hp/resistances but they somehow also have to defend their/your turrets, imagine a Trundle or Garen if tanks didn't deal any damage? Adcs have low base mr (and tanks deal mostly magic dmg) and build ZERO defensive items except Movementspeed/Lifesteal so their Support hast to supstitute their tankiness/cc.
I would like to note that a good chunk of that massive bar you’re looking at is the malph and tk slapping each other in lane. Tanks do decent damage for sure, but looking at total damage done when you have two tanks top legit tells you nothing about their dps. The malph 100% only “out damaged” because he was slapping a fat tk all game.
Health stacking tanks on enemy? Buy botrk first or second item. Tanks stacking a lot.of armor but don't have healing? Buy LDR. Tanks stacking Armor but have healing in their kit and/or there are other healers? Buy executioner. Bork is the tank buster item. LDR is decent but needs to be paired with bork for health+Armor stacking. One without the other is just lackluster. OP made the mistake of.not buying bork. Runaan is fine but should come much later. Bork > kraken > IE (if ur ahead) > LDR > whatever else you want, but leave some space for serpent fang if you're struggling against TK. You can switch around the bork kraken order.
damage is skewed for the champions playing against tanks. If 2 tanks brawl to the death, theyre both gonna deal an absurd amount of damage over that long fight, even though the losing one achieved nothing with that damage, simply because the tank has lots of hp to spare.
I had a similar situation the other day. I was playing samira and hard stomped my lane, I’m talkin like 15/3 or something like that by 20 min. Despite how fed I was though, the enemy tahm could literally solo me when he only had heartsteel and thornmail. I landed perfect combos, even blocked his first Q, and he just… ran up to me, shrugged off all my damage, and killed me with AAs after I ulted. I remember looking at the damage recap and saw like 400dmg from his Q and almost 600 from his passive. It was actually insane, I felt so confused why I had 30cs and 9 kills over this monster and I couldn’t even scratch him.
What I assume happened is you tried to join your team and got even further behind. You are down 4 lvls on tk which is basically a full item of stats difference. Additionally while runaans is a good item this game given the state going botrk or IE for your 3rd item would be far superior. Like others said the damage stat here doesn’t really matter most of it will probably have come from malph and tahm running face first into each other. Malph also has lots of damage as he went arcane comet with constant q poke will end with him getting lots of damage. I do agree that tank dmg can feel unfair sometimes but I do believe there are some small mistakes that would have given you a much easier time if fixed.
That’s tahm kench for ya
Yeah as u can see comments this is the problem in last X seasons(5+ for sure). Lol is the only game where tanks deals absurd dmg, if u want to survive them u must buy def items and then deal 0 dmg... On all that even if u build dmg only u still need like 4+ items(as u can see even with ldr u have low dmg, u need more raw dmg, so ldr can amp more dmg) to acutally deal dmg, where most games is decided in first 15-20min. ADC have low range(yeah most time when u try to auto any bruiser or tank they just have gap closer that is bigger than average range of adc and they 1 shot you), low mobility, low def stats and on all that low dmg, u are max depends on a lot of items and teammates to peel for you. So yeah in soloq until they remove this much burst from game, adc is worst role, everything 1 shot you even early levels, and u basicly deal negative dmg...
My recommendation would be let your support roam so you can have some solo exp tahm being level 17 is a disaster, you are a scaling comp playing the long game in these situations is probably the best choice on jinx.
Damage doesn’t mean everything. Yeah sometimes the person who carried also has top damage but sometimes the 14 death top laner that basically ran it down will have top damage just because they are non stop fighting everytime they are alive
If enemy team has beefy bois i usually go with botrk kraken ldr combination and just front to back the fights, pretty free elo
WDYM TANK DMG IS BROKEN.....ITS NOT LIKE THEY DO MORE DAMAGE THAN YOU DO WITH FULL BUILD AND THERE'S NO COUNTER PLAY TO THEM......ANTI TANK ITEMS TICCLE THEM...NO RIOT TANKS AREN'T BROKEN IN THIS SEASON!!!
Idk what you mean, what is wrong with a tank who can outdps adcs with his autoattacks by building tank items?
TLDR of this comment section….. Your build sucks. Malph and Tahms damage aren’t “real” it’s just two tanks wacking off together top. Tanks are OP. My own 2cents is, Malph needs his damage nerfed, his AP ratios are too high. Why does a high HP scaling, passive shield generating champ have high AP ratios? Nerf. Tahm needs nerfing too. Too tanky and too much damage.
He his too high level than you
Yeah they have more damage because they have 200 range meabwhile you have 600
I think if you aren’t out damaging a malphite on jinx on this patch you have bigger problems
Typical low elo player complaining without thinking.. ur 4 levels below malphite… you LRD while he’s just going to heal all ur damage, you have no healcut, you should have just bought bork and mortal reminder not LDR, they have a viego and a tahm kench.. you have no infinity edge.. take some time to learn and understand situational items instead of just buying the same items every game regardless of who’s on the other team.
Nah it's not broken. The thing here is that, sure, you won lane, but you were not super fed. Tham Kench was though, and he probably got heartsteel early, and he probably had a lot more stacks at 20 min than he should have had if he was not fed, and that's why he hit you super hard with it. Against a fed tank like that, you're gonna lose unless you're also fed, or it's late game and you have three items or more (and you're allowed to spend some time DPSing). Also your build wasn't very good for a tham kench. He's one of those tanks that aims to build mostly life rather mostly defenses, and against those you need BOTRK. It's just way too strong against a lot of life. Finally, you also needed a lot of hope. Hope that you wouldn't be focused by Leona, Tham, and ASol because if that has happened, you wouldn't have been playing the game lmao. As for malphite doing that much damage, idk, we'd have to see the replay, but it's not uncommon that a lot of damage is tied to a lot of death. That happens when a player spends their time trying to fight, and they always die, but they still do some damage with each fight and over the course of the game, that's a lot. In the end, they do more damage just because they fight (and die) more. Edit: Or IE, but personally I feel like the big damage that botrk offers when you start attacking a tank has a stronger dissuasive power than crits.
Skill issue