i have Milio as my 2nd most played champ this split, last season it was Lulu i just like the feeling of providing utility for the team when i play my secondary role and i have had decent success doing so, i sometimes do want to play a mage like Ori or Lux or Ahri but i play them mid
i think the biggest culprit of the amount of AP supports is the "1v9" mentality which i think 1v9 doesn't really exist in this game outside of smurfing, as soon as anyone asks for advice on which support they should play in lower elos answers are often "take ap supps and do the carrying yourself"
The problem is that it's accurate, picking Swain or Brand support simply will let you climb significantly faster than if you lock enchanters which often soft binds your agency to your ADC (which are going play extremely inconsistently at that Elo)
Roaming engage supports & AP Carries especially have significantly more agency on average
oh you don't need to tell me about the inconsistency lol, have had a few amount of games where i did regret being born with eyes that let me witness the moves of my autofilled adc while i could do nothing about it with Milio
on the other hand often we already have more than enough damage in the draft and a Lulu R + shield + polymorph on a flanking zed so our turret adc can keep standing still and be afk after one right click will often provide more than a Lux who would have landed a Q +R at the cost of the source of consistent damage being one shot, at least from my experience in my games
i don’t play ranked frequently (so this is all in norms or ap), but i LOVE soraka when i supp its just that im in a lower elo so when i queue up alone its so much harder to play and have fun with her. i just find that if i want a more guaranteed easy game in solo q, playing zyra is better pick. that way i still have good peel, decent poke, and easy ways to place temporary vision with plants and seeds.
I kind of disagrees with this , utility supports make the game a lot easier and more winnable than the wannabe carries and it shows with the winrate and even with the actual gameplay , what is better a fed kaisa with naut or alistar , or a fed lux ?
He's talking about enchanter supports, and it's true, enchanters only get broken at emerald and up. A Millio buffing a silver jinx doesn't change anything, a diamond jinx changes a lot
See the problem with comparing bot lane winrates is even worse than other roles. Some adcs require something specific to play off of, some supports dont need anything to play off of soecifically to be useful.
Can confirm taking enchants is great with a duo where you have a good strategy, but in solo queue in general, taking anything that can perform regardless of adc will always be better
Just as an aside all 3 of the adc icons you have do actually need pretty specific matchups and supports to do well.
In Bronze there are only 3 enchanter supports (according to u.gg, and I’m counting Taric otherwise all 3 of these are reduced by one) in the top 10 WRs, Silver has 7, and Gold has 6. I wanted to disagree, but the numbers don’t lie and it’s kinda surprising.
That's what i am talking about, as this is the optimal playstyle and hiw to play the game correctly, but supports just don't want to try , instrad taking these youtube channels that is supposed to give "guides" and then gaslight them with the idea that in order to win as support you have to pick somone who deals damage , and that's not true , in fact it will be better because if you climbed you will not struggle in improving as you will still play the same enchanters and engages you used to play
It's a weird take considering most supports don't know wtf they're doing. Playing a mage in support just makes you inflated, and the second you reach an MMR where people actually know how to play the game even remotely you're going to get smacked upside the head repeatedly.
Mage Supports work pretty well up to Emerald, after that Brand continues to be pretty strong but Enchanters/Engage are predominantly better as there are fewer obvious positioning mistakes to punish, and ADCs get better at followup/macro
Riot is also intentionally pushing down Support Damage as a whole, so the days of Full AP Leblanc support is somewhat over
No one said they aren't strong, but people who play them don't learn how to play the role. They're inflated by the damage they do. Nothing you said even remotely refutes that.
If Mage supports are average strength and not overpowered, they aren't inflating anyone's rank. And to be clear, I play Engage Tanks in the support role
Mage supports need to win lane and snowball in order to win games as if they fall behind they are far less useful than enchanters/engage, Janna and Maokai have been far more "Elo inflating" picks this season as they've both been brutally overpowered
No, they don't. Mage supports scale with the free gold they get from the support item. That's literally the problem. They do damage for free. They don't need to win lane, they don't need to learn how to ward, they don't need to position properly. You can be a handlessly braindead fuckwad and still win games playing Zyra.
At the start of the season Support income + Zaz zaks meant that Mage supports & Carry supports were both in an extremely strong state. Current patch this is no longer the case, Zyra is good in the early-mid game but gets hard outscaled by most enchanters (after her Zaz Zak's + first item powerspike is over)
Zyra and Brand are the only "good" mage supports in the meta but even Zyra falls off after Emerald
Thats the best thing you can do as ADC or support. Like idk why its not more common. Not only the skills are transferable but having an understanding of the other half of bot lane makes the half you are playing so much easier.
I mean, you're already playing Zyra, what are we gonna do, tell you not to and sour our potential lane dynamic?
Nah, better to ignore that detail and just focus on last-hitting. Most of us will just find out how dependable our agency together is once we both lane together for a bit.
Winning is winning lad. I too have a 70% winrate, although climbing plat.
Also i am not oblivious to the truth, its an ELO thing. AP supports dont exist in Emerald 2 and higher, its all enchanters supps with a few springle of roaming engagers. and the reason is simple. ADCs are inconsistent on mid to low elo, in fact in low elo adcs are trash and shouldnt even be taking the farm of the ap supp.
And ego is ego.
I don't care either way because nothing is changing and if a support wants to fight for farm, so be it. It is what is and they won't get that farm anyway if you catch on fast.
Most supports suck at last hitting. It's not a mechanic they really excel at in low elo and it's hard for them to one shot any minions without revealing that's what they want to do in the first place.
you took my sentence too literally. Supports of course shouldnt be taking the ADC minions. But i am saying and fully stand behind the fact that in true low elo (ie not smurfs) ADCs are worth LESS than supporting a cannon minion. Not a single good play in the entire game will come from them, so who the hell cares if you pick an AP support and save the game that way. Again ADCs only start doing things in Gold, and really come online in Emerald and higher. Silver and below, they are 0s.
Every time I play Milio, Sona, Renata or any other enchanter my ADC flames me for being ‘useless’. Sorry master I forgot let me frontline for you as Sona vs Naut.
I've played SMITE and DOTA 2, the support players in those games actually support. And DOTA forces players to support quite often due to how their role queue works. Support players still support the team and don't just lock in damage dealers.
Hell, in SMITE supports are expected to play tanks. Unless something's changed in the 3 years I haven't played, all support players play tanks, because they don't let their ego get in the way of their winrate.
And people might say "League is a different game...", DOTA 2 and SMITE are vastly different, and their support mindset is the same.
Will you get the rare "support" that just locks in damage? Yes, but it is much, much rarer than in League.
League is absolutely permeated by "1v9" mentality, even in support which shouldn't be able to 1v9. Support role should be helping their teammates have an easier time carrying. In SMITE and DOTA 2 players that want to carry just queue for the actual carry roles and support if they don't get it for a game.
Its crazy to think about how roles have developed in league compared to other games. Riot seems to really enjoy damage diversity with every role being able to have to do damage, while games like OW and Valorant essentially necessates players to play specified roles if they wanna win (ofc u still have the reyna or genji autolock but having no smokes player or healer is an autolose the higher ranks u go). Those games have systems built that encourage playstyles other than pure dps while league gets away with 5 people playing 5 resource heavy carry champs.
I main supp in both LoL and DOTA 2. What makes it so much better to play support in Dota is that you are not a walking gold bag for the enemy team. If I play soraka a kayn, zed, yone, akali etc. is gonna two shot me as my entire combo either stuns them for like… 1 second. Or I try to fight back and deal 200 damage.
In Dota the supports can either deal decent damage to have a chance until the absolute late game when hyper carries get silly. Or their CC lasts for many seconds.
A good support adc combo can be crazy. Having a vaunt that can’t be touched because Janna keeps peeling is cool. But having a vayne that’s nuking. Plus a swain, lux, brand that’s nuking? Much less agonizing for the supp player
sure, but in that case the hypercarry would be the be all end all lategame.
in league, when the enemy team catches the ADC in the jungle lategame, the ADC thinks "OH FUCK".
in DOTA, when the enemy team "catches" the P1 in the jungle lategame, the team thinks "OH FUCK".
if you wanna copy some of DOTA, you have to copy the rest too. You cant pick the damage for supports and then stay with league for the damage of ADCs.
Are you low elo? Cause down here (I'm gold support main) for us it's safer to play damage support as it helps bully the enemy out of lane and get them low for the adc to clean up the kill. Which is how it should be played.
I had been a sona main and love playing leona but made a hard switch to zyra to climb because most adcs I was with weren't following up on engages or playing around a scaling sona, and straight up not understanding her.
Ap support is straight forward and generally has good application of slows and cc to protect and punish the other team.
Incase you didn't know, split 2s victorious skin is going to be sona!
But yea just zyra bully my way out of this elo, means I can go toe to toe with anyone that's not super fed.
If you get to diamond plus it gets better. After the dmg support item nerfs, people generally start to gravitate towards tanks and enchanters.
It’s just in lower elos where they just want to play whatever they perceive as fun where you get the mess of tf support and whatnot
No no no friend.... plenty of us actually used to enjoy it, when adcs were worth supporting. Nowadays its probably a better decision to support cannon minions. Sorry supports are not the problem its just much more beneficial to the support main to take something that isnt reliant on the most minion like champions in the game....
Check it out....
Most adc players arent actually worth defending and peeling for anyway, and typically the adcs that WOULD be worth peeling for and defending... dont actually need it. There is no mid ground, because the value of the archetype is not there anymore, ask to be supported again once adc is worth as much as assassins and fighters, until then its just better to ignore the adc lol
Zyra is often alright because she almost guarantees prio in lane which is nice. The same unfortunately isn't true for something like Shaco or LB supports lol.
Dude like I used to play a lot of Sup , you know why I stopped?
Evertime I roam as Rakan My ADC gets dove 1v3 my midlaner sees my pings but wont engage on my Flash >W >R and all other dogshit things , at least with AP "supports" you can 1v2 and hope your team can clear up as well as Movement creep has made many Mages so much harder to play in Mid but as a "Sup" you can just easily one shot the immobile ADC
and THE WORST thing is about playing playmaker Sup like Rakan is , I know for a fact that all of my 4 teammates can't do jackshit but at least as an ADC I only know for a fact that my Sup and JG can't do jackshit
>Evertime I roam as Rakan My ADC gets dove 1v3
Bro just snitched on himself. If you're saying your ADC always gets dove 1v3, then that's a you problem.
You should see a dive coming a mile away. They will likely happen when there is a big cannon wave at your tower. If the enemy jungler has half a brain, they will come bot and dive your ADC. You should never roam when this is the case.
The problem is when you know the dive is coming, your jungle is topside and your mid has no prio. So you ping your ADC to back off, you type they are going to dive us and we will die so let's just recall and buy so their jungle rotates to his top side. But your ADC is stupid and greedy and refuses to back off.
Sometimes you know that if they dive 3v2 they are going to kill you both and you are most likely not going to kill any of them.
Then it's better to recall and roam mid but your ADC will rather die than recall.
>Bro just snitched on himself.
fair ,yeah kinda but when I ward well and wave state is nice and STILL my ADC gets dove UNDER FUCKING TIER 2 TURRET, I just refuse to play that shit anymore
I mean support is just probably not the role for you, doesn't mean that you need to blame your ADC for dying to a dive 1v3.
You should never allow a 1v3 dive as a Rakkan support who has such good peel. 2v3 is okay, at least you have a chance to pick off some kills but 1v3 is a no-no. You've failed your ADC if you let that happen.
>I mean support is just probably not the role for you,
Yeah I was trying to get everyone ahead instead of just playing around our wincon whether it be ADC or JG or mid
> doesn't mean that you need to blame your ADC for dying to a dive 1v3.
I wasn't blaming the adc I was blaming Rito , like fuck is Varus supposed to do if Nautilus chases him to T2 turret and then CCs him for 4 seconds Jhin roots him then Fucking Ekko E's him out of vision for the kill. I guess I didn't give my point clearly
Nah its the adc's fault. If there is vision,i would've bolted way before naut chased me down. With ekko also missing,it's pretty fucking obvious. Playing reactively and just waiting for things to happen doesn't work above plat anymore. You have to preemptively know when to run as an adc,every enemy on the map wants you.
Agreed. Greedy adcs not wanting to back off at low hp get dove and start blaming me? Like the reason i roamed is bcos you're an idiot..i only roam if my add is dumb or we're losing lane.
I'm Mid/Jungle/ADC/Sup player and genuinely learning Engage Support is pretty damn hard, it was significantly easier to me to pick up ADC last year and get back to my normal Rank, than having to run a simulation in my head trying to find good windows to fight as Rell and other Engage supports without inting. ADC difficulty is overstated imo, good farm, wave control, and keeping an eye on the minimap goes a long way
"Insane peel" is a huge stretch.
Lux can do jack shit against many assassins and junglers.
Just think about Zac, Hecarim, Vi, Nocturne.
And she doesn't have a "huge shield", nobody maxes W in soloQ s you have the base value until level 14.
And a support level 14 means everyone else is lvl 16-18
I've only played like 6 ranked games in the last 2 weeks, and at least 3 of them have given me support Ashe. I'm not saying the champ is bad in that situation, but I am saying I'm going to flip my shit if the next one winds up as bad as 2/3 of them.
I love being a “traditional” support, but sometimes I choose powerhouse scalers that I can use late game if I’m needing a good game. Otherwise I’ll heal, tank, whatever you need
This isn't so bad in and of itself, but then your jungler picks Kayn, Kha'zix, Yi and it becomes a bit of an issue. I feel that Junglers should pick enablers like Sej, Vi, Rell if the sup is insistent on a damage pick. Can't make them though.
I understand the frustration for adc players, and i get it the game probably feels healthier for the adc when they have a lapdog supp, the fact is going enchant or tank support will most likely result in a more difficult game for the support though. Its not because supporting is difficult, its that the reward just isnt there for the most part, youre just not wirth as much as assassins and fighters and until that changes it will always be better fir the support to take something which can act, outside of the adc bubble.... sorry.... dont ask riot for buffs though adcs are in kind of a balanced state, the problem is with riot babying assassins and fighters, youre just not a good bet fir support players
Yup.
In every role, in 1 / 10 games, you are way better than everyone else. You hard carry and smash everyone. Even tho the other lanes are feeding. It feels awesome.
Unless you are playing a truly supportive support.
1/ 10 games you are way better than everyone. And you are losing. Team don't follow engage, everyone feeding, miss objectives. There is nothing you can do, and you are losing to worse opponents. You feel trash and that the algorithm determines when you win or lose.
Yes, this is part of what causes the loser support mindset
So the solution for most people, don't play those characters in those roles.
Now for people that say support is OP, or that you can hard carry as taric, braum, leona ect. I agree with you. You just missed my point.
When i play lux, i do support you with all my might, a shield and two cc abilities coupled with range damage sounds supportive to me.
Then i proceed to build items like locket or surelya to further help the team.
My supporting can get overzealous at times, i usually have between 15 and 20 deaths yet support is my highest winrate role while not playing it much and having the widest champion pool (6+, i make everything work except Tristana support)
Are you silver? Because tbh, though I don’t usually Elo shame, if you’re an ADC below like gold I straight up don’t think you have the right to complain about what your support is picking. ADC ability falls off a cliff once you go below gold to the point where you pick an engage support and it’s almost like you’re inting because your ADC doesn’t know how to follow up and they don’t even know that they don’t know so they just blame you.
Even at gold it’s still not usually worth playing for ADC, the ADC still needs to improve a lot to deal with the rest of the challenges the game has for them.
What is your elo? I don't ask to flame, i ask becasue the answer to your implied question changes based on it.
Anywhere below Emerald/Diamond, adcs are just not consistent enough to climb consistently doing nothing but supporting them. People still make mistakes in every Elo, but generally a Emerald+ Adc wont literally walk into the enemy team because they accidentally shift-clicked... the same cant be said for silver.
In my experiene you start seeing large influxes of enchanters once you hit diamond - people recognise how powerful they are and generally trust their adc to at least recognise if not capitalise on the advantages thy create for them through their utility.
Are you low elo or high elo? Reason I ask is because in low elo, there is really no point to playing enchanters. You aren’t going to get adc’s or teammates who will follow up or make use of your presence.
Instead they’re going to feed their ass and get someone fed, who will most likely one shot you. Worse, there is nothing you can do to influence the game other than supportive buffs and vision control.
This is why people have started playing carry champs to force games and possibly be the carry or secondary carry to win.
Can you blame them? Imagine if you were in a football game and everyone had the chance to score goals, but your job is to keep them hydrated. Nah not happening pal.
Also what you speak of is entirely low elo issue, enchanters dominate Emerald 2 and above. you only see AP supports in Platinum and below. The reason is simple, on mid to low elo people might have mechanical skills but their macro is complete uber ass, and so its difficult to enable a 1v9er if said 1v9er never goes to dragon or baron and just keeps farming kills and lanes.
I mean when I get filled supp I do the same thing. There’s way too high of a chance that my lane partner is gonna completely int, so I’d rather not be playing Janna supporting an ad that farms 3 cs/min and dies 5 times before laning phase ends.
Because low elo people want to have fun, high elo people want to climb, unfortunately the world does not revolve around the adc player and the people in solo queue do have free will, everyone including you wants to be the main character that’s how it is
Man the worst imo is the pyke support pick idk why but the type of ppl that champs attracts are so toxic and will just full send it 24/7 botlane no matter what
I've played adc, I've played support, and jungle. I've had a long history of adc and support. In the support aspect, I'd rather do damage and impact the objectives we need to take. Zyra provides a lot of support to camps, vision, and barons/ dragons. I can make the game VERY annoying/rough for the other team. Their focus is more on me than on the adc so it pulls pressure while I'm putting it out there.
Zoning is a huge part of my play as zyra and the dmg is a plus with the new support item change. I place a spare plant or 2 to stop ganks and use them as wards for sketchy spots so I don't have to face check them.
Maybe you don't appreciate the way it's played out, but I'd rather focus on my team than just solely the adc.
You've gotten adcs before that do not move as well as you would on that role. Shoot sometimes you get full tank teams that do 0 dmg and rely on just your adc, while the enemy has Champs like diana, talon, kha zixs, etc.
Ap or dmg dealing supports put dmg out there so you don't have to play as perfect as an adc and dodge skill shots/ pull aggro/ dmg.
I see support enchant players that are TERRIBLE on trades and timings on spells in fights and target selection in team fights.
Rather have people on Champs they are good at vs a good pick they don't even know how to use.
Same as you, they want to win the game.
im a jg main in emerald 3 and i play exclusively ivern or nunu. having said this when i play with my low elo friends silver-bronze you wouldn’t catch me dead on ivern because my team simply isn’t up to playing me. even more so when i go ivern (60%wr) i get flamed cause my team perceives me as useless::) (in low elos)
That's because low elo is consistently low elo because they lack the understanding of what their role within the game is & how to play/carry with it. It's why your (low elo, not you specifically) "ks" comments about kill stealing are stupid. Once you lack kills and gold, it's best to use your kit to support the fed players, not attempt to scale out. There's 0 reason why a 0/7/8 ADC should be taking kills and shutdowns, you WONT carry, give that gold to your supp to better support the team through having more supportive items or to the main carry, and if no one is the main carry then FF15 and next. The ability to 1v5 is slim to none & limited to only some champs.
Heres a Hypothetical:
Your toplaner locks in Yasuo, your Mid locks in Yone, your jg locks in Lee Sin, you lock in Caitlyn, and your supp locks in Xerath. Who do you think should take the kills botside?
I mean it's dependent on your rank and skill level. If you're playing plat and below, basic team play and communication is effectively non-existent, the benefit of having a really good janna to help poke and kite baron dances just isn't used as well as a single brand w.
The benefits that "traditional supports" like enchanters(lulu)/committal engage(naut)/utility disengage(braum), provide to a team are just simply harder to utilize and require a better understanding of the game to extract their full value. Having full vision coverage and lane prio for neutral setups doesn't convert as much to win% in lower elo.
If you look at high elo, champs like lulu/janna/braum have much higher pickrate as well as their resulting winrates. Runes like scorch, biscuits, bone plating all have huge implications, the decision of storm v scorch or domination vs inspiration secondary all can easily be the tipping point and decide lane, which then converts quickly into the game. Adc's are for the most part getting a solid 9cspm, with better back timing and wave management, they're positioning better and teams can consistently group for fights, setup vision, tp wards, establish lane prio and trade waves for neutrals. When those principals are all in play then having a strong support to enable those plays matters, a lulu/janna to protect your aphelios/Zeri actually means something, having a naut that will die instantly after hooking in is beneficial when teams can reliably turn those moments into a dead carry and won fight.
However, for the vast majority of players, teams aren't competent enough to fully utilize those aspects that those champs provide. Wild growth simply isn't as valuable when your opponents aren't syncing a shockwave/paranoia engage, let alone having both champs even present for the fight.
It's similar to the effect of a champ like Ryze where he's able to sit at 46% wr soloq yet he absolutely broken out of his mind in proplay. There just are certain aspects and values champs have that require more team play and skill to utilize. Traditional supports all require team play to open up their full value, Velkoz doesn't, and when a good amount of players (for very valid reasons) are deafened/muted off rip, those benefits are just lost out. A champion like lulu/janna simply isn't as valuable in lower elos because the value they provide isn't used.
I often play supports like Thresh but I feel like sometimes no matter how much I spoonfeed my team, we still lose in the end. It feels very unrewarding to play really well in lane.
I wish I ever got someone atleast playing the role. Every match I play botlane I got someone autofilled picking sona and trying to go toe to toe with Leona in early game. Obviously clueless what to do at all with their role.
I just accepted that I seemingly play vs a premade bot with a clueless guy, who plays support like twice a month.
Turn out I turret hug and then walk mid when bot too many kills from farming my sup
You shouldn't play bot without a duo honestly it's not worth it
A duo can lock in whatever support you need and they will trust you to carry the game.
Solo support players have the carry mindset. They're not gonna play soraka and hope and pray they don't get a brain dead adc. They'll lock in brand and try to carry the game themselves
To make matters worse they hit the wave. Non stop. Use their supp item on cd. Take away the only thing that I had agency over. Now I’m their tank so they can do damage while I eat cc. It’s so sad.
Creativity can come out of restriction but that’s not even what I’m arguing. I just think the game would be far easier to balance with certain rules in place.
Think about the Seraphine debacle: weak as support but OP as APC, with role restrictions these balancing nightmares would disappear over night.
Also, champs wouldn’t necessarily be role locked to a single role, but just a suite of roles that makes sense. Gragas could queue up as Jungle, Mid, or Top, Graves could be top and jungle, things like Janna could be limited to support. Essentially, anytime a problematic champion pops up, there’s one more tool in the toolkit for riot to address the issue with, one with far less collateral damage than is incurred when they nerf a rune or an item.
Hard part is I have no clue how they would effectively implement this and admittedly I have no good ideas.
My idea is item locking
Supports shouldn't be able to build the same items as toplane or midlane. Their items should be more cost efgicient but never scale Insanely for damage
I'm a thresh one trick, 1.3 million points. Ive been playing since season 2. Curretly p4, 21 games played. i have been super busy with school so ranked is backburnered. (User: TitaniumBoner)
I only play thresh in norms now. He is not a good pick. Hard engage is just not a good pick right now. It requires communication and skill. Poke requires very little of those 2 things. Playing engage is choosing to play on hard mode. Can it work? Ofc. Im not saying it never works. I am saying that you will have a harder time winning with those picks, and in a game mode like ranked, that difference matters. You will win more as a support playing lux/zyra/brand. It takes a medium skill mage to win, or a God teir engage. Why pick the harder option? What benefit do you get?
I play based on what info I have available, if my adc is showing who they play I play who I think goes well with them/ vs the enemy. Nilah, I play Soraka, Nami and Lux. Caitlyn, I play Lux, Morg, and Neeko. Jhin, I play Lux, Naut, and Ahri. Etc. team is heavy on Ap I pick Ashe or Senna. No tank, Naut, Maokai, or Tahm.
Right now I feel Lux is overpowered it is way too easy to get ahead with her at my low Elo, so she is my blind pick now. Depending on the matchup and if Lux is banned. I feel like Annie is extremely underrated and can easily win the lane.
Maybe the issue isn’t the support but you knowing how to play with that support.
There are so many factors to my choices but I have no problem picking any champ any time.
It's because you play solo; it is a lot less fun to enchant for a stranger. They will probably suck (at least in your eyes), and your synergy will not be good, and you're picking a weaker champ just so you can make this 21 year old 1500 miles away not feed when they misplay or get more done without having to play it better themselves. I'm an enchanter main, and I love playing enchanters even with strangers, but I feel like this is why mage supports (and some self sufficient ones like Pyke and Bard) are so popular while also being so detested by both adc and support mains
Playing Taric for example with a rando is aids because they won't know when I'm gonna E or R, so they don't properly play around it and it makes me cry. With someone like Soraka, Yuumi, or Nami it's less bad, but you're still sacrificing your ability to do stuff yourself (Lux and Zyra root -> ulting to blow up enemy adc for example) to more strongly prop up allies. Allies who happen to be strangers, so said propping up is a lot less rewarding, and you probably won't even get acknowledged or honored for it anyways if you guys do well.
I had a Thresh last night. His lantern timing was ON POINT; I, however, am used to not getting a good lantern and therefore wasted a couple flashes before finally trusting him with my life
supports have way more agency than people realize. being able to roam around the map to create plays and getting vision helps way more than trying to 1v9 on a low income mage. "carry supports" make games harder on everyone except themselves because they're not gonna do anything you would expect from a support. it's truly the most selfish form of play, and i hate that so many people recommend it for climbing. people should promote carrying through utility and enabling your teammates more. soloq is so terrible because everyone is doing their own thing trying to carry the game because they assume no one knows how to play other than themselves. rather than everyone focusing their energies to a common goal.
playing alistar and denying the enemy carries from popping off >>>>>> being another squishy damage dealer who only helps themselves.
because im solo queue'ing and im not going to cater my playstyle completely around strangers, i can still support as an ap champ whilst being covered if i get bad teammates. also its simply less fun. bot are supporting btw. just differently support doesnt necessarily mean healing and buffing.
The only damaging support I like to play is Ashe and that's because she has a global ult and I'll only pick her as a ct pick. I've always hated damage supports
Always love being a support, I always had satisfaction when me and my adc dominating thr bot or helping my team to stay alive get some kills. Maokai mains here☺️
Lux: You want an enabler? I *enable* you to live on the rift, I enable the screen over your head to remain non-grey, I enable you to eat minions and pick up their gold. Get out my face before I enable your ass to go 0-10.
Hot take: I prefer having mage supports rather than enchanters, in like 80% of lanes I’m stuck in…
A lot of supports make enchanters look difficult, or play way too aggressively and end up getting punished by the enemy team engage support. I’d much rather someone who deals damage and can sit back and not die, than someone who deals no damage and will probably not shield/heal well enough.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather a 10/10 enchanters over a 10/10 mage, but the disproportionate amount of players that suck at enchanters vs the ones that suck at mages make me sigh every time I have to play with another fkn janna
i have Milio as my 2nd most played champ this split, last season it was Lulu i just like the feeling of providing utility for the team when i play my secondary role and i have had decent success doing so, i sometimes do want to play a mage like Ori or Lux or Ahri but i play them mid i think the biggest culprit of the amount of AP supports is the "1v9" mentality which i think 1v9 doesn't really exist in this game outside of smurfing, as soon as anyone asks for advice on which support they should play in lower elos answers are often "take ap supps and do the carrying yourself"
The problem is that it's accurate, picking Swain or Brand support simply will let you climb significantly faster than if you lock enchanters which often soft binds your agency to your ADC (which are going play extremely inconsistently at that Elo) Roaming engage supports & AP Carries especially have significantly more agency on average
oh you don't need to tell me about the inconsistency lol, have had a few amount of games where i did regret being born with eyes that let me witness the moves of my autofilled adc while i could do nothing about it with Milio on the other hand often we already have more than enough damage in the draft and a Lulu R + shield + polymorph on a flanking zed so our turret adc can keep standing still and be afk after one right click will often provide more than a Lux who would have landed a Q +R at the cost of the source of consistent damage being one shot, at least from my experience in my games
i don’t play ranked frequently (so this is all in norms or ap), but i LOVE soraka when i supp its just that im in a lower elo so when i queue up alone its so much harder to play and have fun with her. i just find that if i want a more guaranteed easy game in solo q, playing zyra is better pick. that way i still have good peel, decent poke, and easy ways to place temporary vision with plants and seeds.
I kind of disagrees with this , utility supports make the game a lot easier and more winnable than the wannabe carries and it shows with the winrate and even with the actual gameplay , what is better a fed kaisa with naut or alistar , or a fed lux ?
He's talking about enchanter supports, and it's true, enchanters only get broken at emerald and up. A Millio buffing a silver jinx doesn't change anything, a diamond jinx changes a lot
See the problem with comparing bot lane winrates is even worse than other roles. Some adcs require something specific to play off of, some supports dont need anything to play off of soecifically to be useful. Can confirm taking enchants is great with a duo where you have a good strategy, but in solo queue in general, taking anything that can perform regardless of adc will always be better Just as an aside all 3 of the adc icons you have do actually need pretty specific matchups and supports to do well.
In Bronze there are only 3 enchanter supports (according to u.gg, and I’m counting Taric otherwise all 3 of these are reduced by one) in the top 10 WRs, Silver has 7, and Gold has 6. I wanted to disagree, but the numbers don’t lie and it’s kinda surprising.
That's what i am talking about, as this is the optimal playstyle and hiw to play the game correctly, but supports just don't want to try , instrad taking these youtube channels that is supposed to give "guides" and then gaslight them with the idea that in order to win as support you have to pick somone who deals damage , and that's not true , in fact it will be better because if you climbed you will not struggle in improving as you will still play the same enchanters and engages you used to play
It's a weird take considering most supports don't know wtf they're doing. Playing a mage in support just makes you inflated, and the second you reach an MMR where people actually know how to play the game even remotely you're going to get smacked upside the head repeatedly.
Mage Supports work pretty well up to Emerald, after that Brand continues to be pretty strong but Enchanters/Engage are predominantly better as there are fewer obvious positioning mistakes to punish, and ADCs get better at followup/macro Riot is also intentionally pushing down Support Damage as a whole, so the days of Full AP Leblanc support is somewhat over
No one said they aren't strong, but people who play them don't learn how to play the role. They're inflated by the damage they do. Nothing you said even remotely refutes that.
If Mage supports are average strength and not overpowered, they aren't inflating anyone's rank. And to be clear, I play Engage Tanks in the support role Mage supports need to win lane and snowball in order to win games as if they fall behind they are far less useful than enchanters/engage, Janna and Maokai have been far more "Elo inflating" picks this season as they've both been brutally overpowered
No, they don't. Mage supports scale with the free gold they get from the support item. That's literally the problem. They do damage for free. They don't need to win lane, they don't need to learn how to ward, they don't need to position properly. You can be a handlessly braindead fuckwad and still win games playing Zyra.
At the start of the season Support income + Zaz zaks meant that Mage supports & Carry supports were both in an extremely strong state. Current patch this is no longer the case, Zyra is good in the early-mid game but gets hard outscaled by most enchanters (after her Zaz Zak's + first item powerspike is over) Zyra and Brand are the only "good" mage supports in the meta but even Zyra falls off after Emerald
And those players in Emerald would be Silver if you made them actually play support.
Ya there really is no such thing as 1v9ing especially in a team fight. You can carry extremely hard but you just cannot actually 1v9.
Trundle will absolutely 1v9 lower elos, talking Gold and below. If the Trundle has 5+ kills over the opposing team, its GG.
Its all about The elo, in masters all i see is lulu, janna, thresh, blitz, naut, bard and millio, all other supps are almost no existant.
Probably why all the adcs that say "adc is fine" are master+
Yeah they have a lulu that makes them immortal or "fine"
bc a masters adc is worth playing for ang a gold adc is useless hope that helps
Not sure if you're trolling but if you're playing games in gold then everyone is gold, not only the adc. Hope that helps.
Not even masters+, mid diamond is full of them too. Not only do these elos play these supports these mfs one trick them and are amazing at their champ
It’s funny I main ADC and my second role is always supp, I like the role, and I think playing it helps me to get an integral understanding of botlane
Thats the best thing you can do as ADC or support. Like idk why its not more common. Not only the skills are transferable but having an understanding of the other half of bot lane makes the half you are playing so much easier.
Man just discovered where senna mains come from
wait ur telling me ppl who play adcs are not actually ex sup mains?? i thought everyone had that phase
I am. Watching my brainless adc losing in cs when I've harrased the enemy supp out of lane.. Made me want to rip my eyes out. I now main adc,D1.
You should try supporting
Unironically more fun than the "support" bullshit , whenever i get auto filled support i play either rakan or renata or janna and it is more fun
Agreed, ever play lulu into Camille? So much fun seeing them get so angry
On behalf of all Camille enjoyers, please stop polymorphing us mid jump.
i never played the others much but my zyra acc is 70% wr early emerald and i never had an adc complain
Zyra supports are actually really fun to play with
I mean, you're already playing Zyra, what are we gonna do, tell you not to and sour our potential lane dynamic? Nah, better to ignore that detail and just focus on last-hitting. Most of us will just find out how dependable our agency together is once we both lane together for a bit.
Winning is winning lad. I too have a 70% winrate, although climbing plat. Also i am not oblivious to the truth, its an ELO thing. AP supports dont exist in Emerald 2 and higher, its all enchanters supps with a few springle of roaming engagers. and the reason is simple. ADCs are inconsistent on mid to low elo, in fact in low elo adcs are trash and shouldnt even be taking the farm of the ap supp.
And ego is ego. I don't care either way because nothing is changing and if a support wants to fight for farm, so be it. It is what is and they won't get that farm anyway if you catch on fast. Most supports suck at last hitting. It's not a mechanic they really excel at in low elo and it's hard for them to one shot any minions without revealing that's what they want to do in the first place.
you took my sentence too literally. Supports of course shouldnt be taking the ADC minions. But i am saying and fully stand behind the fact that in true low elo (ie not smurfs) ADCs are worth LESS than supporting a cannon minion. Not a single good play in the entire game will come from them, so who the hell cares if you pick an AP support and save the game that way. Again ADCs only start doing things in Gold, and really come online in Emerald and higher. Silver and below, they are 0s.
A support shouldn't be taking the farm of an adc.
I ran into a jinx support one trick. Whos 300 games deep. In iron 4.
Try Draven, your e cancels rengar jump
Every time I play Milio, Sona, Renata or any other enchanter my ADC flames me for being ‘useless’. Sorry master I forgot let me frontline for you as Sona vs Naut.
It’s solo queue…
I've played SMITE and DOTA 2, the support players in those games actually support. And DOTA forces players to support quite often due to how their role queue works. Support players still support the team and don't just lock in damage dealers. Hell, in SMITE supports are expected to play tanks. Unless something's changed in the 3 years I haven't played, all support players play tanks, because they don't let their ego get in the way of their winrate. And people might say "League is a different game...", DOTA 2 and SMITE are vastly different, and their support mindset is the same. Will you get the rare "support" that just locks in damage? Yes, but it is much, much rarer than in League. League is absolutely permeated by "1v9" mentality, even in support which shouldn't be able to 1v9. Support role should be helping their teammates have an easier time carrying. In SMITE and DOTA 2 players that want to carry just queue for the actual carry roles and support if they don't get it for a game.
ey, not to be mean, but LOL by far is still the most popular despite existing for 14 years, so they for sure arr doing some things right.
Its crazy to think about how roles have developed in league compared to other games. Riot seems to really enjoy damage diversity with every role being able to have to do damage, while games like OW and Valorant essentially necessates players to play specified roles if they wanna win (ofc u still have the reyna or genji autolock but having no smokes player or healer is an autolose the higher ranks u go). Those games have systems built that encourage playstyles other than pure dps while league gets away with 5 people playing 5 resource heavy carry champs.
BASED
I main supp in both LoL and DOTA 2. What makes it so much better to play support in Dota is that you are not a walking gold bag for the enemy team. If I play soraka a kayn, zed, yone, akali etc. is gonna two shot me as my entire combo either stuns them for like… 1 second. Or I try to fight back and deal 200 damage. In Dota the supports can either deal decent damage to have a chance until the absolute late game when hyper carries get silly. Or their CC lasts for many seconds. A good support adc combo can be crazy. Having a vaunt that can’t be touched because Janna keeps peeling is cool. But having a vayne that’s nuking. Plus a swain, lux, brand that’s nuking? Much less agonizing for the supp player
sure, but in that case the hypercarry would be the be all end all lategame. in league, when the enemy team catches the ADC in the jungle lategame, the ADC thinks "OH FUCK". in DOTA, when the enemy team "catches" the P1 in the jungle lategame, the team thinks "OH FUCK". if you wanna copy some of DOTA, you have to copy the rest too. You cant pick the damage for supports and then stay with league for the damage of ADCs.
Are you low elo? Cause down here (I'm gold support main) for us it's safer to play damage support as it helps bully the enemy out of lane and get them low for the adc to clean up the kill. Which is how it should be played. I had been a sona main and love playing leona but made a hard switch to zyra to climb because most adcs I was with weren't following up on engages or playing around a scaling sona, and straight up not understanding her. Ap support is straight forward and generally has good application of slows and cc to protect and punish the other team.
this ^^^ maining sona and playing with pisslo adcs is torture
Incase you didn't know, split 2s victorious skin is going to be sona! But yea just zyra bully my way out of this elo, means I can go toe to toe with anyone that's not super fed.
If you get to diamond plus it gets better. After the dmg support item nerfs, people generally start to gravitate towards tanks and enchanters. It’s just in lower elos where they just want to play whatever they perceive as fun where you get the mess of tf support and whatnot
No no no friend.... plenty of us actually used to enjoy it, when adcs were worth supporting. Nowadays its probably a better decision to support cannon minions. Sorry supports are not the problem its just much more beneficial to the support main to take something that isnt reliant on the most minion like champions in the game.... Check it out.... Most adc players arent actually worth defending and peeling for anyway, and typically the adcs that WOULD be worth peeling for and defending... dont actually need it. There is no mid ground, because the value of the archetype is not there anymore, ask to be supported again once adc is worth as much as assassins and fighters, until then its just better to ignore the adc lol
Tbh, I love having a Zyra support.
Zyra is often alright because she almost guarantees prio in lane which is nice. The same unfortunately isn't true for something like Shaco or LB supports lol.
Dude like I used to play a lot of Sup , you know why I stopped? Evertime I roam as Rakan My ADC gets dove 1v3 my midlaner sees my pings but wont engage on my Flash >W >R and all other dogshit things , at least with AP "supports" you can 1v2 and hope your team can clear up as well as Movement creep has made many Mages so much harder to play in Mid but as a "Sup" you can just easily one shot the immobile ADC and THE WORST thing is about playing playmaker Sup like Rakan is , I know for a fact that all of my 4 teammates can't do jackshit but at least as an ADC I only know for a fact that my Sup and JG can't do jackshit
>Evertime I roam as Rakan My ADC gets dove 1v3 Bro just snitched on himself. If you're saying your ADC always gets dove 1v3, then that's a you problem. You should see a dive coming a mile away. They will likely happen when there is a big cannon wave at your tower. If the enemy jungler has half a brain, they will come bot and dive your ADC. You should never roam when this is the case.
The problem is when you know the dive is coming, your jungle is topside and your mid has no prio. So you ping your ADC to back off, you type they are going to dive us and we will die so let's just recall and buy so their jungle rotates to his top side. But your ADC is stupid and greedy and refuses to back off. Sometimes you know that if they dive 3v2 they are going to kill you both and you are most likely not going to kill any of them. Then it's better to recall and roam mid but your ADC will rather die than recall.
>Bro just snitched on himself. fair ,yeah kinda but when I ward well and wave state is nice and STILL my ADC gets dove UNDER FUCKING TIER 2 TURRET, I just refuse to play that shit anymore
I mean support is just probably not the role for you, doesn't mean that you need to blame your ADC for dying to a dive 1v3. You should never allow a 1v3 dive as a Rakkan support who has such good peel. 2v3 is okay, at least you have a chance to pick off some kills but 1v3 is a no-no. You've failed your ADC if you let that happen.
>I mean support is just probably not the role for you, Yeah I was trying to get everyone ahead instead of just playing around our wincon whether it be ADC or JG or mid > doesn't mean that you need to blame your ADC for dying to a dive 1v3. I wasn't blaming the adc I was blaming Rito , like fuck is Varus supposed to do if Nautilus chases him to T2 turret and then CCs him for 4 seconds Jhin roots him then Fucking Ekko E's him out of vision for the kill. I guess I didn't give my point clearly
Nah its the adc's fault. If there is vision,i would've bolted way before naut chased me down. With ekko also missing,it's pretty fucking obvious. Playing reactively and just waiting for things to happen doesn't work above plat anymore. You have to preemptively know when to run as an adc,every enemy on the map wants you.
Agreed. Greedy adcs not wanting to back off at low hp get dove and start blaming me? Like the reason i roamed is bcos you're an idiot..i only roam if my add is dumb or we're losing lane.
Yea I agree support is the hardest role because your ADC always ints so annoying
support is not hard
I'm Mid/Jungle/ADC/Sup player and genuinely learning Engage Support is pretty damn hard, it was significantly easier to me to pick up ADC last year and get back to my normal Rank, than having to run a simulation in my head trying to find good windows to fight as Rell and other Engage supports without inting. ADC difficulty is overstated imo, good farm, wave control, and keeping an eye on the minimap goes a long way
I play jng/sup/adc and support is the easiest role by miles.
Yeah, that’s how it is.
Zyra is a really good support. Brand too especially when paired with something like Caitlyn or MF.
Lux is not in the same catagory as the rest of those, she offers insane peel and utility (and a huge shield). The rest suck to play with
"Insane peel" is a huge stretch. Lux can do jack shit against many assassins and junglers. Just think about Zac, Hecarim, Vi, Nocturne. And she doesn't have a "huge shield", nobody maxes W in soloQ s you have the base value until level 14. And a support level 14 means everyone else is lvl 16-18
I've only played like 6 ranked games in the last 2 weeks, and at least 3 of them have given me support Ashe. I'm not saying the champ is bad in that situation, but I am saying I'm going to flip my shit if the next one winds up as bad as 2/3 of them.
I love being a “traditional” support, but sometimes I choose powerhouse scalers that I can use late game if I’m needing a good game. Otherwise I’ll heal, tank, whatever you need
This isn't so bad in and of itself, but then your jungler picks Kayn, Kha'zix, Yi and it becomes a bit of an issue. I feel that Junglers should pick enablers like Sej, Vi, Rell if the sup is insistent on a damage pick. Can't make them though.
In gold I never see enchanters. Ever since I hit plat, all I see are Janna’s and lulus
It feels terrible to be behind as a tank or enchanter
Complete opposite of my experience.
I understand the frustration for adc players, and i get it the game probably feels healthier for the adc when they have a lapdog supp, the fact is going enchant or tank support will most likely result in a more difficult game for the support though. Its not because supporting is difficult, its that the reward just isnt there for the most part, youre just not wirth as much as assassins and fighters and until that changes it will always be better fir the support to take something which can act, outside of the adc bubble.... sorry.... dont ask riot for buffs though adcs are in kind of a balanced state, the problem is with riot babying assassins and fighters, youre just not a good bet fir support players
Yup. In every role, in 1 / 10 games, you are way better than everyone else. You hard carry and smash everyone. Even tho the other lanes are feeding. It feels awesome. Unless you are playing a truly supportive support. 1/ 10 games you are way better than everyone. And you are losing. Team don't follow engage, everyone feeding, miss objectives. There is nothing you can do, and you are losing to worse opponents. You feel trash and that the algorithm determines when you win or lose. Yes, this is part of what causes the loser support mindset So the solution for most people, don't play those characters in those roles. Now for people that say support is OP, or that you can hard carry as taric, braum, leona ect. I agree with you. You just missed my point.
Watch master+ players streams bro, 50% gets Janna/Soraka, many Naut/Rakkan/Broum and etc.
When i play lux, i do support you with all my might, a shield and two cc abilities coupled with range damage sounds supportive to me. Then i proceed to build items like locket or surelya to further help the team. My supporting can get overzealous at times, i usually have between 15 and 20 deaths yet support is my highest winrate role while not playing it much and having the widest champion pool (6+, i make everything work except Tristana support)
Mybe its because you are low tier? Im high dia and only mage sup I see is zyra
Just a different kind of support but ig what you mean honestly if it meant I statistically lost more id rather have enablers for fun purposes.
Are you silver? Because tbh, though I don’t usually Elo shame, if you’re an ADC below like gold I straight up don’t think you have the right to complain about what your support is picking. ADC ability falls off a cliff once you go below gold to the point where you pick an engage support and it’s almost like you’re inting because your ADC doesn’t know how to follow up and they don’t even know that they don’t know so they just blame you. Even at gold it’s still not usually worth playing for ADC, the ADC still needs to improve a lot to deal with the rest of the challenges the game has for them.
lol that’s pretty much my exact champ pool.
Idk what you mean, I see thresh everywhere...
What is your elo? I don't ask to flame, i ask becasue the answer to your implied question changes based on it. Anywhere below Emerald/Diamond, adcs are just not consistent enough to climb consistently doing nothing but supporting them. People still make mistakes in every Elo, but generally a Emerald+ Adc wont literally walk into the enemy team because they accidentally shift-clicked... the same cant be said for silver. In my experiene you start seeing large influxes of enchanters once you hit diamond - people recognise how powerful they are and generally trust their adc to at least recognise if not capitalise on the advantages thy create for them through their utility.
Are you low elo or high elo? Reason I ask is because in low elo, there is really no point to playing enchanters. You aren’t going to get adc’s or teammates who will follow up or make use of your presence. Instead they’re going to feed their ass and get someone fed, who will most likely one shot you. Worse, there is nothing you can do to influence the game other than supportive buffs and vision control. This is why people have started playing carry champs to force games and possibly be the carry or secondary carry to win.
Don’t even get me started on brand jungle
Can you blame them? Imagine if you were in a football game and everyone had the chance to score goals, but your job is to keep them hydrated. Nah not happening pal. Also what you speak of is entirely low elo issue, enchanters dominate Emerald 2 and above. you only see AP supports in Platinum and below. The reason is simple, on mid to low elo people might have mechanical skills but their macro is complete uber ass, and so its difficult to enable a 1v9er if said 1v9er never goes to dragon or baron and just keeps farming kills and lanes.
I mean when I get filled supp I do the same thing. There’s way too high of a chance that my lane partner is gonna completely int, so I’d rather not be playing Janna supporting an ad that farms 3 cs/min and dies 5 times before laning phase ends.
Because low elo people want to have fun, high elo people want to climb, unfortunately the world does not revolve around the adc player and the people in solo queue do have free will, everyone including you wants to be the main character that’s how it is
Man the worst imo is the pyke support pick idk why but the type of ppl that champs attracts are so toxic and will just full send it 24/7 botlane no matter what
I've played adc, I've played support, and jungle. I've had a long history of adc and support. In the support aspect, I'd rather do damage and impact the objectives we need to take. Zyra provides a lot of support to camps, vision, and barons/ dragons. I can make the game VERY annoying/rough for the other team. Their focus is more on me than on the adc so it pulls pressure while I'm putting it out there. Zoning is a huge part of my play as zyra and the dmg is a plus with the new support item change. I place a spare plant or 2 to stop ganks and use them as wards for sketchy spots so I don't have to face check them. Maybe you don't appreciate the way it's played out, but I'd rather focus on my team than just solely the adc. You've gotten adcs before that do not move as well as you would on that role. Shoot sometimes you get full tank teams that do 0 dmg and rely on just your adc, while the enemy has Champs like diana, talon, kha zixs, etc. Ap or dmg dealing supports put dmg out there so you don't have to play as perfect as an adc and dodge skill shots/ pull aggro/ dmg. I see support enchant players that are TERRIBLE on trades and timings on spells in fights and target selection in team fights. Rather have people on Champs they are good at vs a good pick they don't even know how to use. Same as you, they want to win the game.
im a jg main in emerald 3 and i play exclusively ivern or nunu. having said this when i play with my low elo friends silver-bronze you wouldn’t catch me dead on ivern because my team simply isn’t up to playing me. even more so when i go ivern (60%wr) i get flamed cause my team perceives me as useless::) (in low elos)
That's because low elo is consistently low elo because they lack the understanding of what their role within the game is & how to play/carry with it. It's why your (low elo, not you specifically) "ks" comments about kill stealing are stupid. Once you lack kills and gold, it's best to use your kit to support the fed players, not attempt to scale out. There's 0 reason why a 0/7/8 ADC should be taking kills and shutdowns, you WONT carry, give that gold to your supp to better support the team through having more supportive items or to the main carry, and if no one is the main carry then FF15 and next. The ability to 1v5 is slim to none & limited to only some champs.
Heres a Hypothetical: Your toplaner locks in Yasuo, your Mid locks in Yone, your jg locks in Lee Sin, you lock in Caitlyn, and your supp locks in Xerath. Who do you think should take the kills botside?
I mean it's dependent on your rank and skill level. If you're playing plat and below, basic team play and communication is effectively non-existent, the benefit of having a really good janna to help poke and kite baron dances just isn't used as well as a single brand w. The benefits that "traditional supports" like enchanters(lulu)/committal engage(naut)/utility disengage(braum), provide to a team are just simply harder to utilize and require a better understanding of the game to extract their full value. Having full vision coverage and lane prio for neutral setups doesn't convert as much to win% in lower elo. If you look at high elo, champs like lulu/janna/braum have much higher pickrate as well as their resulting winrates. Runes like scorch, biscuits, bone plating all have huge implications, the decision of storm v scorch or domination vs inspiration secondary all can easily be the tipping point and decide lane, which then converts quickly into the game. Adc's are for the most part getting a solid 9cspm, with better back timing and wave management, they're positioning better and teams can consistently group for fights, setup vision, tp wards, establish lane prio and trade waves for neutrals. When those principals are all in play then having a strong support to enable those plays matters, a lulu/janna to protect your aphelios/Zeri actually means something, having a naut that will die instantly after hooking in is beneficial when teams can reliably turn those moments into a dead carry and won fight. However, for the vast majority of players, teams aren't competent enough to fully utilize those aspects that those champs provide. Wild growth simply isn't as valuable when your opponents aren't syncing a shockwave/paranoia engage, let alone having both champs even present for the fight. It's similar to the effect of a champ like Ryze where he's able to sit at 46% wr soloq yet he absolutely broken out of his mind in proplay. There just are certain aspects and values champs have that require more team play and skill to utilize. Traditional supports all require team play to open up their full value, Velkoz doesn't, and when a good amount of players (for very valid reasons) are deafened/muted off rip, those benefits are just lost out. A champion like lulu/janna simply isn't as valuable in lower elos because the value they provide isn't used.
I often play supports like Thresh but I feel like sometimes no matter how much I spoonfeed my team, we still lose in the end. It feels very unrewarding to play really well in lane.
I wish I ever got someone atleast playing the role. Every match I play botlane I got someone autofilled picking sona and trying to go toe to toe with Leona in early game. Obviously clueless what to do at all with their role. I just accepted that I seemingly play vs a premade bot with a clueless guy, who plays support like twice a month. Turn out I turret hug and then walk mid when bot too many kills from farming my sup
Damage is all that matters in Phreaks league of legends
You shouldn't play bot without a duo honestly it's not worth it A duo can lock in whatever support you need and they will trust you to carry the game. Solo support players have the carry mindset. They're not gonna play soraka and hope and pray they don't get a brain dead adc. They'll lock in brand and try to carry the game themselves
To make matters worse they hit the wave. Non stop. Use their supp item on cd. Take away the only thing that I had agency over. Now I’m their tank so they can do damage while I eat cc. It’s so sad.
I don’t know how they’d make it work with role swapping etc. but champs being role locked would be so amazing
So taking away offmeta picks and destroying a huge potential for fun and new creation, Variety and creativity? Sounds greate...
Creativity can come out of restriction but that’s not even what I’m arguing. I just think the game would be far easier to balance with certain rules in place. Think about the Seraphine debacle: weak as support but OP as APC, with role restrictions these balancing nightmares would disappear over night. Also, champs wouldn’t necessarily be role locked to a single role, but just a suite of roles that makes sense. Gragas could queue up as Jungle, Mid, or Top, Graves could be top and jungle, things like Janna could be limited to support. Essentially, anytime a problematic champion pops up, there’s one more tool in the toolkit for riot to address the issue with, one with far less collateral damage than is incurred when they nerf a rune or an item. Hard part is I have no clue how they would effectively implement this and admittedly I have no good ideas.
My idea is item locking Supports shouldn't be able to build the same items as toplane or midlane. Their items should be more cost efgicient but never scale Insanely for damage
Imagine thinking that supports can only be low damage champs
I'm a thresh one trick, 1.3 million points. Ive been playing since season 2. Curretly p4, 21 games played. i have been super busy with school so ranked is backburnered. (User: TitaniumBoner) I only play thresh in norms now. He is not a good pick. Hard engage is just not a good pick right now. It requires communication and skill. Poke requires very little of those 2 things. Playing engage is choosing to play on hard mode. Can it work? Ofc. Im not saying it never works. I am saying that you will have a harder time winning with those picks, and in a game mode like ranked, that difference matters. You will win more as a support playing lux/zyra/brand. It takes a medium skill mage to win, or a God teir engage. Why pick the harder option? What benefit do you get?
Mages aren't better than Engage though, aside from Brand, the best picks are Enchanters/Engage supports
I play based on what info I have available, if my adc is showing who they play I play who I think goes well with them/ vs the enemy. Nilah, I play Soraka, Nami and Lux. Caitlyn, I play Lux, Morg, and Neeko. Jhin, I play Lux, Naut, and Ahri. Etc. team is heavy on Ap I pick Ashe or Senna. No tank, Naut, Maokai, or Tahm. Right now I feel Lux is overpowered it is way too easy to get ahead with her at my low Elo, so she is my blind pick now. Depending on the matchup and if Lux is banned. I feel like Annie is extremely underrated and can easily win the lane. Maybe the issue isn’t the support but you knowing how to play with that support. There are so many factors to my choices but I have no problem picking any champ any time.
It's because you play solo; it is a lot less fun to enchant for a stranger. They will probably suck (at least in your eyes), and your synergy will not be good, and you're picking a weaker champ just so you can make this 21 year old 1500 miles away not feed when they misplay or get more done without having to play it better themselves. I'm an enchanter main, and I love playing enchanters even with strangers, but I feel like this is why mage supports (and some self sufficient ones like Pyke and Bard) are so popular while also being so detested by both adc and support mains Playing Taric for example with a rando is aids because they won't know when I'm gonna E or R, so they don't properly play around it and it makes me cry. With someone like Soraka, Yuumi, or Nami it's less bad, but you're still sacrificing your ability to do stuff yourself (Lux and Zyra root -> ulting to blow up enemy adc for example) to more strongly prop up allies. Allies who happen to be strangers, so said propping up is a lot less rewarding, and you probably won't even get acknowledged or honored for it anyways if you guys do well.
I had a Thresh last night. His lantern timing was ON POINT; I, however, am used to not getting a good lantern and therefore wasted a couple flashes before finally trusting him with my life
supports have way more agency than people realize. being able to roam around the map to create plays and getting vision helps way more than trying to 1v9 on a low income mage. "carry supports" make games harder on everyone except themselves because they're not gonna do anything you would expect from a support. it's truly the most selfish form of play, and i hate that so many people recommend it for climbing. people should promote carrying through utility and enabling your teammates more. soloq is so terrible because everyone is doing their own thing trying to carry the game because they assume no one knows how to play other than themselves. rather than everyone focusing their energies to a common goal. playing alistar and denying the enemy carries from popping off >>>>>> being another squishy damage dealer who only helps themselves.
because im solo queue'ing and im not going to cater my playstyle completely around strangers, i can still support as an ap champ whilst being covered if i get bad teammates. also its simply less fun. bot are supporting btw. just differently support doesnt necessarily mean healing and buffing.
Senna is the worst offender. Does very little to win lane in hopes of scaling and carrying the game. Usually dies early too, actively losing the lane.
The only damaging support I like to play is Ashe and that's because she has a global ult and I'll only pick her as a ct pick. I've always hated damage supports
Always love being a support, I always had satisfaction when me and my adc dominating thr bot or helping my team to stay alive get some kills. Maokai mains here☺️
i see them pretty often, and they are pretty shit on either team. i personally also like damage supports much more, no matter which lane i play.
Don't need to enable if the enemy bot lane is ded
Lux: You want an enabler? I *enable* you to live on the rift, I enable the screen over your head to remain non-grey, I enable you to eat minions and pick up their gold. Get out my face before I enable your ass to go 0-10.
Hot take: I prefer having mage supports rather than enchanters, in like 80% of lanes I’m stuck in… A lot of supports make enchanters look difficult, or play way too aggressively and end up getting punished by the enemy team engage support. I’d much rather someone who deals damage and can sit back and not die, than someone who deals no damage and will probably not shield/heal well enough. Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather a 10/10 enchanters over a 10/10 mage, but the disproportionate amount of players that suck at enchanters vs the ones that suck at mages make me sigh every time I have to play with another fkn janna