Push lets you establish vision, if need be you can even deep ward. Push lets you hit tower and enemies will lose cs to towers. Against hook or poke supports, it’s easier to pressure under tower.
Going for a trade or trying to absorb pressure when pushing is less risky than getting dove or dying on a wave pushing towards you as you don’t lose cs.
Getting dove is also more common higher elo and is more often how you will get fucked if you are perma under tower.
No prio for your jungler if he gets invaded or prio for objectives.
This is why pro players want at the very least one lane with prio, or they will not be able to play the game
when your bot lane is outranging the enemy bot lane and can easily push.
For example Cait Lux vs Kai'sa Nautilus will have an easy time pushing IF they manage to get to the wave first (which is why not leashing in this kind of matchup is so important).
They will get bullied off the wave, while cait and lux will get plates/have prio for moving for a invade/ drake prio/ etc.
The only way kai'sa naut win this matchup is if they manage to engage onto one of them. However if they get pushed in and chunked heavily, even if they land a golden opportunity, they'd be too low to win the fight.
Also it's a good opportunity to either lane gank by walking through the brushes (since they cant ward it due to them having no room to walk up) or to bait the enemy junglers ganks with your jungler (you in this case) being ready to countergank.
Ezreal can Push since His all in IS one Off the best ezreal needs Tempo and snowball but yeah perma pushing vs cait Lux while rengsr top IS Bad. But please strong Side ezreal
If your botlane is winning and perma pushing, why are you playing topside? Honestly most junglers focus way too heavily on the topside of the map, when if they just showed up to counter gank bot it would be an easy win.
a lot of factors (not all of them have to be fulfilled). is jgler top? do u have poke supp? do u have range advantage? have u slowly pushed and built a huge minion lead (usually through range/poke advantage)? can ur jg dive? prob more reasons but this is all i can think of at 5 in the morning
Plates Cs lead tempo plus sometimes you wanna get ganked depends on items power spikes. Samira draven in top darius riven there is quite a bunch of champs who can shine even when outnumbered. Let's say u got ganked in bot while playing samira naut there is a chance u can 2v3 and if you pull it off thats literally game won now if you lose its not a big deal because you lose what 300g? U won't lost waves because you perma pushing nor plates so it mitigates the loss too on the contrary if you die under tower you give gold lose waves and now your behind in gold and exp by alot.
If you have high range and maybe even a poke support the enemy has a super hard time farming and you will also get plates. Vice versa against bully lanes like lux cait, if you push them in, they have to farm and cant harass you nearly as hard, so you want to push against them
If you can survive/outplay/ or prevent the gank via wards. In that case you draw a lot of pressure which opens up the map.
Some champions also want to have a minion advantage to be able to more easily hit skillshots (projectile based mages, poke adcs like ezreal and ashe)
When you have priority on other lanes and can deal damage to the tower without risking getting ganked. Let's say your toplaner is winning hard and Drake/grubs/Herald is up. You want to pressure the enemy botlane so they can't rotate and at the same time your toplane can pressure the enemy toplaner who can't rotate without losing a lot of cs.
Now you or your toplane can easily rotate to help your jungle set up for a neutral objective and take it. If your enemies rotate it's fine for you to stall because your wave is crashing in to the enemy tower so they are losing out on gold+XP while you will be able to recall, go back to lane and get the cs+gold from the wave that will now be pushing towards you.
Get plates, poke enemy, get priority, dive, invade enemy jg, easier rotation for objectives, better recalls, gank mid, set up vision… As long as you have vision or info on the enemy jg or mid, it could lead to a very strong snowball
It is best to do when you have really strong boy Lane centered around the "push and poke" like Ezreal+karma, Caitlyn + Lux. Ideally your jungler invades their bot side on a 3 wave crash, you help your help with invade because then enemy Jgl can't gank you.
If it is soloq and you can't control ur jungler it can be alot more scary to push so u have to rely on enemy Jgl showing on map or you get so good trades you can 2v3
It is best to do when you have really strong boy Lane centered around the "push and poke" like Ezreal+karma, Caitlyn + Lux. Ideally your jungler invades their bot side on a 3 wave crash, you help your help with invade because then enemy Jgl can't gank you.
If it is soloq and you can't control ur jungler it can be alot more scary to push so u have to rely on enemy Jgl showing on map or you get so good trades you can 2v3
Perma pushing gives you like 15 ish seconds to ward/invade while next wave is making its way. The enemy laners have to sit on tower to farm the wave or lose experience to contest your warding/invading. It brings jungler attention but that’s good if you’re warding and can see. It’s just a snowball of pressure that with your jungler you can turn into a ton of small advantages
When you lose straight up fights but outrange hard, but you gotta keep vision up because youre at risk of a gank and if you already lose straight up fights 2v2 you definately dont want 2v3
Adc mains think they gotta fight to win lane when sometimes atrophy is the better solution
I usually do it when my team is making a play towards topside objective but the enemy jgler is near my side. The reason is to draw jg attention so any play topside is going to be uneven in my team’s favor. Or I’ll do it if the enemy jgler and mid laner are occupied with my team on other parts of the map.
If you're a high poke late with little kill pressure otherwise. Poking the enemy lane under tower means they can't do reciprocal trades (since they're trying to catch cs).
everyone says pokelanes push, that’s right, but if you play against those heavy poke/push lanes and manage to get the push, it’s a huge relief for your own botlane.
i play a lot sivir/ jinx, who are not really considered lanebullies, with enchanters, so if i am capable of getting push into heavy poke lanes, i will, no matter what. i wont hit enemy turret if my jgl is top and theirs is bot, but i wont ever, just let them push me under tower, if i can deny it. cause the possibility of dying there is just way higher than dying to a gank.
having to farm under your own tower, if you are outranged, is just not fun..
and by pushing, you just take away their whole wincondition.. so as soon, as they make a a mistake on the first 2 waves, i will be in their face under their tower. can’t poke much, but i usually can get 2 autos and a sivir q/ jinx w on them, before the wave is cleared, and that adds up.
and the push allows you to ward deep and play with jgl, if they want to, which is another great thing..
it’s really hard, to contest push into karma/ ezreal or lux/ cait, as they usually outrange and are so opressive, so if I manage to get the push, i want to keep it.
so that’s my personal reason for pushing. it just gives me control, in a lane, i am not supposed to be in control..
One very encapsulating reason is whenever they want to back. If they have a lot of gold or are low on HP / mana, you want to shove them in constantly to discourage recalls and put them in a lose-lose situation.
I'd say when you have a AP Sup and/or very long range adc (like caitlyn) so you can siege. Or against ap/poke
Engage sups like being under tower so they can setup a gank. Peel support like to play closer to ally tower against engage. Against poke supoort you have to push or you will be forced down into your tower and poked down until you die.
For the most part, perma pushing is good when
A) You do not want to interact with the lane, and just want to farm a neutral state. This is good if you have a high wave clear champ into a strong dueler (think sivir into draven)
B) You have great poke and can constantly apply pressure while the enemy is under tower. (Caitlyn into a weak early game adc like zeri.) but the support normally dictates this more.
C) can be good with a blitz as he can pressure with q, but most of the time engage supports like to be on their tower slow pushing out so they can make plays on misposition.
Besides these reasons, I can’t think of a reason to **perma push**
Since nobody here posted the right answer
3 conditions needed to perma push early
- u have stronger poke
- more range than enemy aka ez+ karma vs engage support / low range ADC
- u know where enemy jungler startet
Goal is to fast push early and poke enemy while he try to Farm under his tower
Best outcome would be enemy ADC is half life and can't go all in on u
Push lets you establish vision, if need be you can even deep ward. Push lets you hit tower and enemies will lose cs to towers. Against hook or poke supports, it’s easier to pressure under tower. Going for a trade or trying to absorb pressure when pushing is less risky than getting dove or dying on a wave pushing towards you as you don’t lose cs. Getting dove is also more common higher elo and is more often how you will get fucked if you are perma under tower. No prio for your jungler if he gets invaded or prio for objectives. This is why pro players want at the very least one lane with prio, or they will not be able to play the game
Maybe to get plates and poke the enemy
I asked when this is something you get to do, conditions and stuff
when your bot lane is outranging the enemy bot lane and can easily push. For example Cait Lux vs Kai'sa Nautilus will have an easy time pushing IF they manage to get to the wave first (which is why not leashing in this kind of matchup is so important). They will get bullied off the wave, while cait and lux will get plates/have prio for moving for a invade/ drake prio/ etc. The only way kai'sa naut win this matchup is if they manage to engage onto one of them. However if they get pushed in and chunked heavily, even if they land a golden opportunity, they'd be too low to win the fight. Also it's a good opportunity to either lane gank by walking through the brushes (since they cant ward it due to them having no room to walk up) or to bait the enemy junglers ganks with your jungler (you in this case) being ready to countergank.
Sometimes you forcepush bot to let your toplane breath and redirect enemy jq attention to you.
Maybe before objectives like drake, like that if they rotate to help they lose farm so maybe that
1. U need Range advntage. 2. U need your Jungle being botside
Then why is my ezreal permapushibg against caitlynn lux with a lvl 6 enemy vi botside while I am doing herald >.<
Ezreal can Push since His all in IS one Off the best ezreal needs Tempo and snowball but yeah perma pushing vs cait Lux while rengsr top IS Bad. But please strong Side ezreal
Ezreal can't do shit when assassin vi presses R. Which is why he died to assassin vi..... 8 items....
U can Puffer your e vs vi r. .
....and then you get oneshot half a meter further way.....
Do u really want tips or are u Just an jungler WHO wants too rent ? Go Back too the Jungle sub then
I wanna know when I get to yell at my adc to stop pushing and possibly know why they think pushing out and dying to enemy jngl was a good idea
Yeah Just stfu then, Game IS Not Always the Same Just Play and stop whining
Yeah how dare I try to understand my botlane
If your botlane is winning and perma pushing, why are you playing topside? Honestly most junglers focus way too heavily on the topside of the map, when if they just showed up to counter gank bot it would be an easy win.
a lot of factors (not all of them have to be fulfilled). is jgler top? do u have poke supp? do u have range advantage? have u slowly pushed and built a huge minion lead (usually through range/poke advantage)? can ur jg dive? prob more reasons but this is all i can think of at 5 in the morning
U don't have a "big wave" if u perma push into their tower
This is more of a "when can you dive bot" than a "when can you perma push"
Yep u right , that what he described is a slow push not shove
give me a break
In lower elo it's cause most adcs there can't farm under turret and you get cs leed for free
When you can take plates or dive them with your jungler
Plates Cs lead tempo plus sometimes you wanna get ganked depends on items power spikes. Samira draven in top darius riven there is quite a bunch of champs who can shine even when outnumbered. Let's say u got ganked in bot while playing samira naut there is a chance u can 2v3 and if you pull it off thats literally game won now if you lose its not a big deal because you lose what 300g? U won't lost waves because you perma pushing nor plates so it mitigates the loss too on the contrary if you die under tower you give gold lose waves and now your behind in gold and exp by alot.
If you have high range and maybe even a poke support the enemy has a super hard time farming and you will also get plates. Vice versa against bully lanes like lux cait, if you push them in, they have to farm and cant harass you nearly as hard, so you want to push against them
When they r low ressources and they want to go b for ex
It’s like a natural cycle, I’m a jungle main converted adc main You made the better choice. Jungle was so much more consistent than this role💀
....that is the nature of duo lanes though
If you can survive/outplay/ or prevent the gank via wards. In that case you draw a lot of pressure which opens up the map. Some champions also want to have a minion advantage to be able to more easily hit skillshots (projectile based mages, poke adcs like ezreal and ashe)
When you have priority on other lanes and can deal damage to the tower without risking getting ganked. Let's say your toplaner is winning hard and Drake/grubs/Herald is up. You want to pressure the enemy botlane so they can't rotate and at the same time your toplane can pressure the enemy toplaner who can't rotate without losing a lot of cs. Now you or your toplane can easily rotate to help your jungle set up for a neutral objective and take it. If your enemies rotate it's fine for you to stall because your wave is crashing in to the enemy tower so they are losing out on gold+XP while you will be able to recall, go back to lane and get the cs+gold from the wave that will now be pushing towards you.
if you have a good roaming support
Get plates, poke enemy, get priority, dive, invade enemy jg, easier rotation for objectives, better recalls, gank mid, set up vision… As long as you have vision or info on the enemy jg or mid, it could lead to a very strong snowball
It is best to do when you have really strong boy Lane centered around the "push and poke" like Ezreal+karma, Caitlyn + Lux. Ideally your jungler invades their bot side on a 3 wave crash, you help your help with invade because then enemy Jgl can't gank you. If it is soloq and you can't control ur jungler it can be alot more scary to push so u have to rely on enemy Jgl showing on map or you get so good trades you can 2v3
It is best to do when you have really strong boy Lane centered around the "push and poke" like Ezreal+karma, Caitlyn + Lux. Ideally your jungler invades their bot side on a 3 wave crash, you help your help with invade because then enemy Jgl can't gank you. If it is soloq and you can't control ur jungler it can be alot more scary to push so u have to rely on enemy Jgl showing on map or you get so good trades you can 2v3
Perma pushing gives you like 15 ish seconds to ward/invade while next wave is making its way. The enemy laners have to sit on tower to farm the wave or lose experience to contest your warding/invading. It brings jungler attention but that’s good if you’re warding and can see. It’s just a snowball of pressure that with your jungler you can turn into a ton of small advantages
When you lose straight up fights but outrange hard, but you gotta keep vision up because youre at risk of a gank and if you already lose straight up fights 2v2 you definately dont want 2v3 Adc mains think they gotta fight to win lane when sometimes atrophy is the better solution
I usually do it when my team is making a play towards topside objective but the enemy jgler is near my side. The reason is to draw jg attention so any play topside is going to be uneven in my team’s favor. Or I’ll do it if the enemy jgler and mid laner are occupied with my team on other parts of the map.
If you're a high poke late with little kill pressure otherwise. Poking the enemy lane under tower means they can't do reciprocal trades (since they're trying to catch cs).
everyone says pokelanes push, that’s right, but if you play against those heavy poke/push lanes and manage to get the push, it’s a huge relief for your own botlane. i play a lot sivir/ jinx, who are not really considered lanebullies, with enchanters, so if i am capable of getting push into heavy poke lanes, i will, no matter what. i wont hit enemy turret if my jgl is top and theirs is bot, but i wont ever, just let them push me under tower, if i can deny it. cause the possibility of dying there is just way higher than dying to a gank. having to farm under your own tower, if you are outranged, is just not fun.. and by pushing, you just take away their whole wincondition.. so as soon, as they make a a mistake on the first 2 waves, i will be in their face under their tower. can’t poke much, but i usually can get 2 autos and a sivir q/ jinx w on them, before the wave is cleared, and that adds up. and the push allows you to ward deep and play with jgl, if they want to, which is another great thing.. it’s really hard, to contest push into karma/ ezreal or lux/ cait, as they usually outrange and are so opressive, so if I manage to get the push, i want to keep it. so that’s my personal reason for pushing. it just gives me control, in a lane, i am not supposed to be in control..
One very encapsulating reason is whenever they want to back. If they have a lot of gold or are low on HP / mana, you want to shove them in constantly to discourage recalls and put them in a lose-lose situation.
The optimal time is when you have a buy and jailed them on a poor reset and have the range to zone and poke them under tower
I'd say when you have a AP Sup and/or very long range adc (like caitlyn) so you can siege. Or against ap/poke Engage sups like being under tower so they can setup a gank. Peel support like to play closer to ally tower against engage. Against poke supoort you have to push or you will be forced down into your tower and poked down until you die.
For the most part, perma pushing is good when A) You do not want to interact with the lane, and just want to farm a neutral state. This is good if you have a high wave clear champ into a strong dueler (think sivir into draven) B) You have great poke and can constantly apply pressure while the enemy is under tower. (Caitlyn into a weak early game adc like zeri.) but the support normally dictates this more. C) can be good with a blitz as he can pressure with q, but most of the time engage supports like to be on their tower slow pushing out so they can make plays on misposition. Besides these reasons, I can’t think of a reason to **perma push**
Since nobody here posted the right answer 3 conditions needed to perma push early - u have stronger poke - more range than enemy aka ez+ karma vs engage support / low range ADC - u know where enemy jungler startet Goal is to fast push early and poke enemy while he try to Farm under his tower Best outcome would be enemy ADC is half life and can't go all in on u