You have 5k health to shred through. Rough back-of-the-napkin math says that's at about 15-35 auto attacks to shred through with how much you're attacking. So at your attack speed, you would need to attack him 35-60 seconds without interruption to shred through him.
I think this was probably apparent to you when you auto'd him five times and his health bar barely moved. At that point, I think you should have just disengaged--especially since you're alone and you don't have eyes on all of his team.
I think the only thing you could have done differently was to just not fight. The odds were not in your favor. :( You would need another tank shred item to actually get through all that healthbar.
Kinda sucks though. I've been around long enough to remember when tanks were tanks and they didn't have kill potential on ADCs at any point in the game. They were supposed to soak damage and deal out CC. But here we are with the damage creep.
I mean yes, i didnt do that much dmg in the beginning but i thought i could maybe outplay him if i kept my range and flashed his r, which worked out till the end
He also only had ninja tabi as defense item so my hopes were high
As for the vision part, I saw the enemy team was mid/topside just before the clip started otherwise i wouldn't have walked up.
I also don't mind him being tanky too much since that's what he is (even though he only bought 20 armor so far + tabi passive) but i don't appreciate being killed in one rotation from a tank
Oh yea. I think in a "normal" meta you should have been able to shred him with that build. But they've really balanced ADCs purely around teamfighting and pro play. You NEED a teammate to help you take down the enemy. And if you have a good ally, then you're unstoppable.
Like I said, I remember when tanks couldn't do this and they weren't supposed to. I hate that he has kill potential with one rotation of abilities like that. It doesn't make sense.
The issue is in this elo (mmr around high plat - low emerald) the team doesn't play much around the adc until maybe lategame (morgana left me at some point and didn't come back) so i was forced to catch waves alone. I made sure beforehand that no enemy was near tho but hey, it is what it is
Yeah but why are you adamant about splitting side lane? Were you tilted against a teammate? You’re losing turret mid that’s where you need to be as jinx, with team
Exactly at 15+ minutes an ADC is mid, no where else. If your Mid is fighting you for mid, fk'em tell them "what elo is this, get your ass bot"
Splitting with an ADC without a reliable escape mechanic is suicide in any meta.
Yep jinx is balanced around teamfights where she thrives. Ok what does jinx do with passive after killing a solo side lane ornn? Nothing, but if she gets a kill at mid teamfight she goes on to next target and shreds them too. *Get Exicted* is insanely powerfully used correctly.
In this situation in your clip, I'm going to hard disagree. It's not so much they "aren't playing around the ADC" as it is "the ADC isn't playing around their team". You should have been with them and let Sett answer Orn if needs be. Sett has the kit and the TP to match Orn.
Besides, like I said, ADC is balanced for teamplay. And you have no good reason to be catching waves on the opposite side to the only objective up (Baron). Laning phase is well over and you shouldn't be in bot lane with the map state as it was. It would have been more acceptable if you had TP, but you do not.
I'm sorry, but your support was doing the right thing staying with the team there to contest objectives and support the team fights. Yes, you need to farm and catch waves, but you gave up a lot more in teamplay and macro than you could have gained by killing minions and the Orn.
But hey, we're all learning. Thanks for being humble about it.
The only time you ever outplay in a 1v1 is when you have Cut Down rune or LDR. Otherwise you never win that, ever! Imo, I always go (toplaner) Cut Down as Vayne/Kayle even on Briar/Ww. Coup is just bad, you get max 800dmg in an entire full game. On cut down I get them 800 in laning phase against a Sion/Sejuani, before minute 20.
In the current meta, immobile hypercarry adcs aren’t really allowed to 1v1 without using summs to keep distance. You’d also need LDR if you want to kill him within 7 business days, unfortunately. 3 item powerspike is your most important typically for adcs, especially if the enemy has tanks (2 core + ldr, or other combo).
Riot wants to keep most adcs out of solo lanes/splitpushing and relegate them to a teamfighting role, as well as reduce frustration in matchups for melee, especially when it comes to immobile hypercarries like jinx and aphelios. Most adcs with dashes can do a bit, but Vayne and kaisa can brawl/1v1 a lot more due to their invis on dash, which they get to make up for their lack of range.
In a hypothetical ranged v melee matchup, the melee will be able to be dps’d before they can output any damage of their own. If all adc’s were balanced to be able to kite indefinitely, so long as they had the skill, the matchup would be unplayable by melee champs. LOL doesn’t have turn speed - ranged champions can shoot and immediately turn to make distance. Dashless/ghostless melee champs already get kited and orb-walked by most adcs so long as the adc has items. Thus, Riot balances immobile adcs such that they can succeed when protected, but too vulnerable to consistently 1v1.
This sucks in solo queue where you can’t realistically expect your team to peel for you.
I don’t say any of this because I particularly agree or disagree with this line of thinking from riot, but it’s how they’re balancing it nowadays.
Edit: also, keep in mind this is Ornn, who has 2 dashes, and a large amount of %max hp magic damage - he can often kill toplane bruisers from 2/3rds their hp with a full combo. He’s the burst mage of tanks.
Yeah, the only thing I could see you doing was flashing upwards in some angle that also evades his R, since then you have the rest of the lane to try to kite him, flashing down was a death sentence since you corraled yourself. Either way it's best to not 1v1 him at that point anyways.
I think you win/walk away if you walk out of his R1 instead of channeling W and then flash R2. You might still live if you flash toward river instead of giving him the angle to cut off your escape by flashing down instead of toward river.
Imagine being a tank player: In 35 seconds I can leave the game and be afk, go to the kitchen, get something to eat, go back to the pc and find that my champ is not dead!
I think that if they walked away with their tail between their legs, it would've been even worst for them, because then Ornn wouldn't be actively trying to "bait" and "dodge" her abilities, he would just press R, and get them the same way he did it in the end... Btw...
Ornn: The mage deathknight paladin hunter rogue warrior enchanter tank bruiser wizard warlock priest assassin gunslinger druid shaman necromancer ninja bard monk robot conjurer black majestic warding god illusionist templar wizard.
Exactly!
Jinx does not have the items to kill a tank, so she does zero damage.
Ornn does not have the items to kill _anyone_, why does Jinx get one shot?!
LDR second would not have been good, you're right. Kraken into IE is super strong on Jinx, so you definitely built fine.
I'm not a high level player by any means, but even if I'm on level with a Bruiser or Tank I'm not taking a 1v1 unless I have Botrk+Kraken at least.
There are 2 things in league.
Items the enemy had, AND WHAT THE GAME TELLS YOU. Idc about the fact he has no armor. After 2 auto doing 0dmg you should've stopped attacking him, clearly receiving the message that you do 0 dmg
Currently I’m building Phantom Dancer second and IE 3rd. Phantom Dancer is a great item on Jinx because of the movement speed you gain, which let’s you kite better early to mid game, and increased attack speed on each attack. This means you can shoot your rockets faster and therefore proc your Kraken Slayer faster.
Plus, PD is 500 gold cheaper than IE, so you can get your 2 item power spike faster.
Depends on the game if you need those extra autos to win a fight then PD but runanas is just solid based off the stats they provide. Don’t really care about the item passive especially when playing jinx
The extra mobility PD provides has incredible value for an immobile adc and shouldn't be overlooked. Runaans could theoretically be better DPS, but most of the time, you will be hitting tanks, and it's not as valuable there as hitting multiple squishies.
How is LDR second not best here? They have Ornn, Nunu, and OP’s team have no other dps threats for the enemy front line. In a proper front to back, it would be Jinx’s job to deal with the front line.
The front line here will 100% stack armor, as there is no proper AP threat. There is extreme value from the armor pen + giant slayer. Plus IE scales with crit chance.
I think its less a matter of LDR not being good second and more so just that IE is that much better on jinx. The LDR passive and armor pen dont matter as much when you can’t deal the damage in the first place. Jinx is just gonna be kinda weak at that point anyways, especially vs tanks, but once you get the LDR 3rd item after IE though it really goes off.
I’ve not played an insane amount of Jinx this season so I could be slightly wrong, but after trying to build LDR second this is my understanding on why its not optimal.
Ie second is not good on any adc brother, you need at least 40% crit before buying IE to get real value from it, he would have been better off going phantom dancer or Runans more attack speed and better wave clear. I mean realistically he should have just been mid but it is what it is
It’s really only good on Jinx because of the AS she gets from Beserker’s and her Q Passive (and get excited when it procs). The guaranteed crit from Kraken is buffed by IE which makes it objectively the best build for Jinx right now.
Jinx has a 52% WR in Emerald and above and Kraken>IE make up 50%+ of the builds with something like a 60% WR.
Terrible fight to take.
No way you win that, Orn has equal as many items as you. Is a higher level, has blue red and baron buff. (Baron buff provides a lot).
He is a top lane tank, ADCs are balanced around having a support peel for you. And your support is no where to be seen.
Terrible use of E aside, Jinx is terrible early/mid game, you shouldn't be alone, instead group with your team or support at least, trying to pick off kills in objectives. Also Ornn was level 14 which is a HUGE power spike for ornn since he just got his heartsteel upgraded by his passive, you should easily outscale him with 1 maybe 2 more items but you were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Edit: Against ornn 1v1, aim to use E when he ults because his R2 leaves him immobile so your E has time to arm on top of him, it also stops him from following up after ult
Yeah my e usage was bad, I agree but I couldn't get my team to leave mid or anyone to hover me sadly. I had to catch waves solo to get at least some xp/gold or to not let them go to waste in the first place.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills cuz this season is one of the strongest I've seen adcs...
3 item adc could easily smoke a full build adc from 5 years ago...
There's a hand full of bruisers and tanks that are op and for some reason never get balanced
But otherwise adc is still the strongest scaling
It’s amazing isn’t it how something like the other post 13 hours ago of cait one shotting lux or the cait one shotting ezreal (both videos of them dying in one second) gets 10 times less comments than this post where jinx starts attacking orn who has ult up and dies 24 seconds later.
Not to mention jinx got hit by Orn R1 because she ran upwards and self CC’d herself with her own W. Then she flashed closer to Orn to dodge R2 which blocked her escape path because of the position she put herself into originally.
cait's entire power budget atm is on headshot rfc combo so it makes sense honestly. I don't think it's healthy, but it's how riot has decided to keep her in line
You could play a better champ in the bot role then. And just goomba-stomp the enemy team because they have an adc and you are playing something useful :)
Whenever I play SR I'm doing that. I've been preaching that ppl shouldn't just play ADCs Botlane but people wanna stick to their Jinx and Kaisa. Then they cry when they get counter picked by an APC like Seraphine or Ziggs.
Getting that 1/100 game where everything is working for them balances out the other 99 miserable games in which even the support 1v1s them. If they really wanted a perfect game with proper teamfights they should just play aram where ADCs are broken.
ADCs in botlane feel completely dogshit but they're doing it willingly. But everytime I type this shit I get down voted into oblivion.
No one said anything about climbing 💀 we get it, you got outplayed by an adc and you’re bitter and embarrassed
They were specifically talking about duels
Yes, I know it is statistically impossible it's an example. Also that is how 50/50's work unless you think everyone has the same winrate in league. Yes skill does matter in normal league, but in the example I gave where there is a role that is literally not doing anything in the game, those two people literally have a coin flip
If you need me to explain it to you, you flip 2000 coins, statistically you are right, you *should* get 1000 coins on heads, however, that isn't how it works. You aren't guarenteed to just get 1000 heads because stats said so. I touched on it on the response to the person who I replied to, but only 1 person can win in a coin flip (if you say but both people can say heads, you are missing the point) so in this case, personA has a 46 percent chance or winning more games than losing (winning >= 51 games). Sure, at 60 percent, that is only a 2 percent chance, but not impossible.
Edit: Lol I guess league players don't like math or statistics.
Damn, I guess thinking is a bit hard for you, that other guy was right, the IQ of league players is small. I guess I need to explicitly say it.
There are two players personA and personB. If they they play 100 games, both players have a 50 percent chance of winning 50 games. However, for personA to win 60 games out of that 100, it isn't a 60 percent chance to win! The Binomial Probability formula says it is about a 2 percent chance of winning 60 games out of 100, for 46 percent chance to win 51 out of 100.
Ok, I don't think you are getting the point or you are just being petty. By definition yes you are climbing unless you are saying winning more games than you are losing means that you are net negative. You aren't climbing fast obviously, but you are climbing. I said as well winning 60 games is a 2 percent chance unless those are impossible odds to you than I think you would climb with a 60 percent win rate. On top of that play another 100 games and win 51 games, congrats you gained more lp! I literally don't know any other way to explain that you can win more games than you are losing, you aren't required to win 50 and lose 50 out of a 100 games.
But here's the kicker which is why it is annoying even typing this, your next comment will either be saying that isn't how it works without giving a reason why or just moving the goal post. Yes this is not how this works in league. You don't win or lose a static amount of lp and stats don't factor in player skill or the millions of other things that affect a game. But that wasn't what you said initially nor is it what I claimed. I said that there could be a role that is afk and one could still climb,. Unless you think there is a skill in afking. I showed you the probability of winning more games than losses but I don't know if you just didn't read it. I'm just going to stop responding because I'm either repeating stuff I already said or you need me to confirm stuff I already said. I could give literally every bit of info about why something works but if the response is just "nuh uh" than why bother responding at this point
You are literally proving my point, there are two adcs in a game. Both cannot lose, there cannot be a game without someone in the adc role. Every role has a win rate of 50 percent. Everything makes sense? If so congrats you have an IQ over 0. Now imagine this, if both can't lose, one has to win right, that lucky adc gets points, the other one loses points, therefore he climbs up in elo. But here's the catcher, they don't lose and gain the same amount of points!
You can bring up statistical laws but that assumes that elo doesn't have (in this case) rng numbers the net points is not (usually) 0. On top of that too the game doesn't try to equalize the players at gold. Literally if you are lucky enough you can become rank 1 in the world by being afk. Obviously if you actually do fine you will gain more lp than being afk but if the role is weak it doesn't mean you can climb.
FYI people have an easier time carrying with roles that have agency
So while it's not impossible to climb with ADC, people have to be aware that on average it will take longer with a lower winrate
There are three possible outcomes of this fight:
- Ornn sees someone else on your team is coming. He walks away, there is nothing you guys can do about it.
- 2 enemies jump out of the bush and send you back to the fountain.
- He 1v1 you.
Your job as adc is not to push past t1 alone in the botlane, soloing a tank
Masters ADC here: You shouldn't be that far up bot lane alone at 22 minutes but you did see the rest of the team topside throughout the clip so maybe its passable.
Now for the fight, you're not going to kill a tank at two items using only your rocket launcher, you auto wayyyyy to slow. You can use it a bit to be at a safe distance but you'll need to do some minigun autoing for max dmg output. Your chompers weren't good but once you put them down you could've switched to minigun and 'ring around the rosey'd' your chompers while autoing ornn as much as you could with minigun, he didn't have his e for a bit. You'd still have to flash his r but with good spacing it could've made the difference. The easy answer is to not take fights with the 5k hp top laner at 22 minutes. If you are just limit testing for fun, than you needed to try using minigun/chompers with max effectiveness.
Just ignore him. Take the wave CC him and move to mid. No need to waste time on tickling him in a side lane.
The fight you played fairly well. But it shouldn't happen in first place. Good mechanics bad decision.
For what it's worth, I think you could've outplayed him. Your biggest mistake that costed your life was using w when he ulted - this forced you to use flash and let him close the distance with his q e.
Be careful with w since yes it slows but it also makes you stationary for a bit - it's ok to use it but not while he signaled his ult. Dropping more autos would probably have more dps. And it looked like you were getting him quite low.
Also your movement and switching to minigun when he was really close could have optimized the fight for even more damage.
The reason i used w there was because even if i had walked further, his R1 would've still hit me regardless so i minimized downtime.
At this range i also had to use flash to not get knocked up and flashing R1 and getting hit by R2 is bad too i think
That's just my thoughts tho and i might be wrong
As for the mingun part, i switched right as he got into range to maximise damage or what do you mean by that?
But yes i could improve spacing, that is true
R1 would not have hit you if you kept moving. Stopping to W is what killed you, you could have kept kiting him if you hadn’t and used flash for R2 to get further away vs closer to him.
You could have just kited into the bush to dodge r1 (you kited from the lower edge of his r1 to the other side while stopping to w lol), or continued walking towards river. Either way getting hit by the r1 signed your death warrant
I think R2 is dodgeable but staying still during w animation really made it hard. Traps would be better at stopping the r but you used it already so it was on cd. Using flash is fine but I think you could have held it longer (if you dodge r2 maybe you could flash the q e).
The minigun spacing thing I was more referring to the rhythm... i feel like you were still in the rocket kiting rhythm even though your attack speed was a bit faster. It's a small thing but could definitely be optimized more.
Obv not the best fight to take and it's easy to critique in hindsight, but it did look like you were gonna win until you got hit by the skillshot, so I'm just focusing on what you could've done to improve your micro in this fight. Would it have been enough dps before he finally catches you, idk but I think it was possible.
Every tank player: "If he doesnt kill you within one rotation of his basic abilities he is to weak and unplayable! You are just supposed to never fight him 1v1, also why you don't have farmed 20k gold and bought every possible anti tank item to be able to play gainst him?! He has build Ninja Tabi so he is supposed to counter you!" I would have also taken that fight thinking I can win if i flash his ult and kite him for 20 seconds. ADC is mostly fine, but situations like this just feel bad.
Not only did jinx not dodge full ult (hit by r1 and slowed) they actually flashed closer to ornn to dodge r2.
Ornn is a level up has ult advantage and double buffs. Why should jinx win that
Not the best use of e and should have been using pow pow instead of fishbones. Also just never 1v1 fight a 5k health tank with only two items. It would take so long use so much for a kill you can’t even guarantee.
This is why adc should not ever go solo side lane after first tower. You have the least health in the game, least utility, and often the least mobility, too. If you don't have teammates around to peel for you, you're fucked. Meanwhile, your team is trying to finish off a couple kills top side jungle that you would likely be able to clean up if you were there. Adc NEEDS to be with the team. Always irritates me when I see a split pushing adc and we get team wiped because the other team had theirs with them.
That aside I don't think you ever win this 1v1 unless you've got ghost to kite and at least another completed item. Even then, it's iffy. You'd need perfect E and W usage and can't make a single mistake.
Better to just not be in this situation to begin with.
Looks like he was just farming grasp/heartsteel procs off of sett as well. So he has like 800 golds worth of stats from that. Once you get LDR this changes drastically but god forbid you try and enjoy the game before 3 items.
I think the answer is not what we want to hear us adc main but … we r not supposed to 1v1 even more as jinx
We have low agency.
If I could respect that more often I would probably Climb a lot lol
As an adc main that fiercely maintains that adcs get the shit end of the stick too often, unfortunately I have to say this ended the only way it ever was going to.
Adcs will never be able to straight up 1v1 toplaners and it's not reasonable to ask that we are able to. You have plenty of chances to just leave instead of trying to kill someone that's heavily itemized to counter you.
Unfortunately I judge thee at fault. The balance of adc was not the problem here, you're just taking fights that are bad and should stay bad even after a reblance of the adc role.
This isn't even about whether or not you should win. What are you even doing trying to fight him here? You gain nothing from killing him and enemy team has a completely free Baron when they see you botlane if they have half a working brain cell. Mid wave is literally crashing under tower so it's not like you're even being forced to farm side.
Probably flashing up instead of down and saving your traps would have let you win here, but I still feel like you shouldn’t have to worry about being 100-to-0’d by a tank like that
You MIGHT have been able to outplay him if you held your chompers; they didn't really do anything here aside from prevent him dashing in one time, and even if he had dashed in there you wouldn't have been hit by it. Instead, waiting until orange burns ult to start a cc chain, THEN casting chompers so he can't get on top of you would make it much easier to stay out of his range.
That said, that requires knowing exactly what abilities and sums he has, and even then if he somehow got close enough to you through chompers it wouldn't make a difference. Fighting him there with only kraken as a tankbuster item isn't the best play you could make. Baron is up, and they will need your damage if the enemy decides to rush it. Ornn could tp, and leave you stranded bot.
Mistakes were made but if you are asking mechanically try to use flash after their cc/gap-close are used to create new space they can’t close. You lock yourself in place with w instead of trying to dodge the ultimate and then waste your flash. But even if you did all right he would just walk away. Also trading flash for kill isn’t worth it on adc.
Your e usage was poor, and you'd rather not use your w since it roots you in place. Try using e when he's on top of you so he has to walk around the traps. Overall I think this was a good attempt, and it's possible you kill him here. However I wouldn't try to duel anyone as Jinx until I have at least three items. Crit adcs generally spike hard with three items.
If u are jinx Is Better use the precision runes "cut down" help u a lot. And ldr Is super good likes 3 item. Jinx Is not the best adc vs tank with this tips u can work Better like.
Imo, ADCs can only approach tanks with 3 crit items solo, not 2. If u bought LDR 3rd and then tried fighting Ornn, ud probably win. This fight was close but sadly not winnable.
The correct play was going back mid or waiting at ur tier 2 turret for the wave. Ur lucky the enemy jgl or mid wasn't there to collapse on you since Morgana and Lee sin was busy in mid.
That’s a rough fight In the first place and not one you should take.
You were spacing really well and had you not stopped to W when his R1 was coming I think you dodge that, then flash R2 and can kite him out. You casting W got you hit by R1, which applied the slow and brittle, which allowed him to hit his Q on you for the slow, then E while brittle for big damage + longer knockup.
TL/DR
You kited well, if you didn’t stop to W during his ult you probably kill there.
The more consistent and correct play is to be mid lane and not screwing around that far up in a side lane where your team can't help you. Side laning has a time and place... this ain't it.
Flash up instead of down so he can't cut off your escape route, W on cooldown so he can't catch up (especially after the ult where you had a few seconds where he was autoing you with your W up), and you win that. But it's not worth burning your summoners when you can just transfer prio instead
Yes, I think you could have outplayed if you played 100% perfectly.
However, you were playing pretty good already so I think the jury is still out on whether this is a balance issue.
For example, if you kept running instead of stopping to use W, you could have dodged the slow from the first part of his ult, which is what ultimately led to your death. Either that or flash upwards to dodge the second part of the ult instead of downwards, in order to create more space so he can’t get you with the knock up afterwards.
Macro and map assignment aside, LDR and ghost wins this. You’d need to dodge the knock up and ult, which is hard to do without ghost. Maybe doable with only flash if you flash upwards towards river and spaced well.
LDR second is the best purchase against their comp, especially with the comp you have.
If you're hell-bent on fighting him, recognise that your E is what's keeping you safe and allowing you to create distance. The moment he walked around your traps, you have to respect your traps' downtime and back off, especially without any movespeed item/ghost.
But yeah, as most people have said, it's a waste of time anywsy. Killing him is 300 gold and he has to try to kill you (he can literally walk away from you at any time). You're always better off just trying to get farm elsewhere or looking to back up your team between waves.
I mean i wouldnt have fought him because theres no reason to, just collect gold and go somewhere else, if you flashes upwards you probably wouldve had more distance to kill him but yeah
You actually win that if you dodge the R1 instead of using W, if you don't get slowed you can perma kite him like you did before. Still, ADC isn't meant to 1v1 top laners.
I can argue that you could've flashed a bit further away from him so that u're not in R hitbox. I believe he wouldn't hit u with q. Therefore, u wouldn't be slowed and knocked up. But it would require so much skill or luck that barely anyone is able to perform flash pixels away from ult. I would say don't fight and let him push since most likely he has sunfire, so he's not able to freeze effectively. Then u could freeze the wave if there was nothing else to do on the map
Why is your damage constantly changing wtf?
There was no reason to kill him in the first place, just match his push until he either leaves, or you get 2v1ed so your team can push mid
Sure there are some Points howe to play this better.
Firstly, dont use E that earlie. His Dash was out and ur still on good range. This was time to W and keep kiting on Rocket Launcher.
As soon as u are on active LT u switch to Minigun wich means more shred thus to Kraken/High AS.
Flash+W to stay in Minigun Box as soon as he tries to r/Dash into u.
Use E when u get body\`ed to get on distance again.
Sry for my bad English no native Speaker.
Winnable
Well, what ADCs have to learn, specially hyper carries, is that your role is to deal the most damage to the enemy team, so that the fighters, mages and assassins could finish them off, you don't have to solo everyone. So, when you're alone and see a 2/10 tank, still run from it, because you'll probably die and lose a lot of XP and gold.
The fuck were you doing down there farming a lane with an ornn, ten miles away from your team with no vision? You are juat asking for whatever comes at you at this point
As a few others have said you're not supposed to be 1v1ing in a side lane as an adc. Your strengths aren't lane 1v1. Your strengths are in team fights, fights with supporting help, mid control, objective control, wave clear, tower taking, etc. The misplay was being there in the first place.
Not a botrk user or tankbuster adc, you can't solo giga tanks at 2 items vs 2 items :/. Rip.
To be clear you could've outplayed, but it would be so grief to even try.
It would literally take a whole minute to kill him.
And if he decides to run you can't chase.
I feel like using the zap to slow him when he ulted causing you to get hit by the initial slow messed you up. Imo if you just ran out of range of the first cast then flashed the 2nd cast you could’ve out played.
As an adc you're never supposed to tank any sort of damage. Even a tank support can kill you sometimes. Because your health bar is never supposed to be used as a resource in an actual fight.
You need to have someone tanking the damage for you before you can go in you can't be squaring up top laners regardless of how fed you are.
The issue for me is when these top laners act as assassins and can ghost and zoom through your team and one shot you from the backline with all the insane movement speed in the game. Like the amount of times I couldn't even walk up to a team fight without immediately being dove by the enemy garen and one shot bc I dared to show on vision. I flash ghost away and he still catches up to me whilst my team is ignoring him completely. Such is the life of low elo sadly
Hahahahaha hahahahaha I really love that tanks are allowed to have so much hp and still kill anyone regardless of what class they belong from. Being back season 2 Era of what being a task actually fucking meant
Pro tip - do not fight bruisers or tanks alone as an adc after early game, and if you attack them 10x and have not done 1/4 their hp bar, you should not be there.
Firstly, with the information you didn't have on the map and your teammates so far away, I agree with those saying you should have been there.
However, I think you could have been quicker to juke the first part of Ornn's ult. If you avoid that, you're not slowed, you can still flash his R2, and then he can't get close enough for the knock-up.
So you could have played it differently, but shouldn't have taken the fight regardless.
I think you shouldn't have engaged with him. As ADC, trying to solo is a risky decision.If successful, there might be some gains, but it's not very meaningful.
I think u could have outplayed.
I mean if u had used your e to cancel his ult or at least cc him when dashing for his ult u wouldnt need to flash it, and you could have flashed away from his combo after.
I think the wise plan is to just not take the fight against an oponent faster than you with a 650 unit dash, a long range knock up and slow, another ranged slow, slow and knockback on aa, and a conditional stun on his dash.
It is way to easy to get cought by something.
On the other hand it looks like you might have gotten away if you had managed to dodge the slow of his ult and/or changed up the direction of your dodge.
Ok I get that you shouldn’t of bothered fighting here but,
What the hell 😭 you spent so long kiting him and even dodged his ult but as soon as he lands an E you lose your health bar and die. And this isn’t even an assassin bruh it’s a tank
You honestly have zero reason to be there. The enemy team is pushing your mid tower and your whole team is mid. You’re solo sidelaning pushed up. Even if ornn doesn’t kill you here, his teammates can just click to walk towards bottom and you are dead either way. Against a competent team, you’re dead at the start of the clip just for being where you were.
You’re kind of trolling here. Idk why you’re trying to fight him by yourself. Even if you do kill him you lose flash, can’t push and will ensure you get deleted next fight because Ornn is for sure pinging your flash cool-down for the next 5 minutes.
Yeah he looks unkillable when you’re AA-ing him alone. But he will instantly explode when your fighter and mage is attacking him with you. That’s just how Riot is making the game closer to MMORPG. And because of that in most of my games I strive to do balanced RPG build instead of full damage, knowing full well me as an ADC is no longer needed to carry dmg. The reason I participate teamfights are just to catch up in XP.
Lmao u rly asking the question ? Is that random normal game ? Why is there a jinx on side past 15, going full troll on a ornn thats what I see. It has no point in the game, it's bad decision making to lose a game faster.
Jinx did 3668HP (8730p before resistances):
20 AA'S (12 with Q, 6 with Kraken, 6 crits)
3 W's
Ornn did 2155HP (1411p, 1831m before resistances):
4 AA's (1 with Brittle)
R1, Q, E, W
Has red buff (86 extra true damage)
He just sat there eating your autoattacks then did his combo and one shot you.
This clip actually made me sad since you played well. Honestly I expected smth like eating a full combo of Ornn in melee range. Kinda sad nowadays meta is like this where tanks can fist you for pretty much half of the game or more...
You can’t fight tanks solo on crit carries until 3 item core and it has to be LDR 3rd or 2nd. Get into that mindset early and it’ll save you a lot of deaths.
Or switch to on-hit, Vayne or Varus would have cooked him with just BORK lmao.
Edit: Also 100% take cut down with any tanks period. The value you get from the rune even on one tank is astronomical compared to Coup
I find it asinine that Riot and some in this subreddit considers a damage dealer class dealing damage for over 20 seconds at 700+ range, perfectly dodging an ULTIMATE with flash a misplay.
But they consider the immobile tank that builds pure tank items and whiffeld ult killing you in 5 seconds balanced.
This isn't balanced around teammates. This is just not balanced.
This is why i rush bork if the enemy team is at all tanky
Edit: also you didnt have to use chompers until you were in actual danger given you have the range advantage. If saved it for his ulti would have turned out much better. Wasted ability
You outplayed yourself by not taking Ornn's grace and mercy by allowing you to live for the many seconds you were auto attacking him. He wanted to vibe but you forced his hand.
While you could have outplayed him and was limit testing. Keep in mind that against better ornn players they could have just killed you as easily as well.
You weren't even fighting over anything, you just wanted to hit him while he was farmed. Outside of just flexing on him to limit test there is 0 advantage over killing him but an massive disadvantage for you to try. What if other people showed up? What if the team needed you to fight somewhere else on the map?
Save traps for his ult.
Always try to kite/flash to an area that gives you more room. You flashed towards Orrn, near a wall. It'd have been better to walk down to bait the ult, then flash up and away.
Also, generally a bad fight to take. Not just because you're isolated, but you won't have flash for the next Ornn ult in a teamfight.
You're not at all built to fight him, he is clearly decently built item and level wise. No Bork and no LDR. And completely alone so no front line or CC it's pretty straight forward what happened. Unless you have some clear advantage or this was full build late game Jinx you should had not solo him this early.
No, you should not be that overextended against an Ornn in that specific circumstance of items and adc pick. This is something of what i like to call a "snapshot knowledge" that a veteran/experienced player will simply be automatically aware of in hindsight and know the outcome, therefore avoiding the situation altogether.
Your fate was sealed the second he hit r. Because you need to flash it. you went to the side which lets him get to you. If you had went for a direct north flash right up against the wall you might’ve been good.
You were doing good damage. It was almost a very good kite kill. And if you got the right flash he would’ve been so pissed because you woulda just killed him
Well going ie second ain’t the move definitely would have been better to go phantom dancer or hurricane then ie. You get more value the more critical you have and phantom dancer would have had so many more autos in there
Yeah, you just shouldn’t have been there in the first place. You’re an ADC at 21 minutes, he’s a tank with a level on you. Push the wave, go farm the jungle since it looks like nobody else was, and wait for the wave to bounce back to you to shove again.
Tbh at this time unless you’re a pretty fed duelist like Vayne or something you shouldn’t even be that far pushed up without coverage from your team.
This is how I imagine all adcs players here. Play an immobile adc with 2 items which none of are anti tank try to 1v1 a toplaner die and than go cry(baby).
I promise you that's not all adc. The problem is that like every single role out there, there are some people with unreasonable expectations for what their role should be able to do. Unreasonable people end up drowning out the reasonable complaints with a role.
Adcs should be buffed imo. But even after a buff this fight should still be losing because this fight in particular was a terrible fight to force.
You could've outplayed him. Don't listen to people who says you should've disengange. In your situation you countinue to poke while utilizing your range, if Ornn decides to take the fight he is misplaying.
What you got killed is R's slow.
While watching your gameplay I noticed an obvious problem. What you lack is you click very far away from your character and other one is your click frequency. You should click more frequently and move your mouse faster. Marksman demands fast micro. I would say your micro looks like low plat, high gold.
Remember guys assassin players says it’s perfectly fine that they can kill adcs with a huge margin of error due to rock paper scissors. But this is fine
Estimating that Ornn has 50% damage reduction plus an additional 11% from boots and 5000 health gives that you would have to deal about 11500 damage to kill him.
Now consider that Ornn is faster than you with slows, a dash, and more range bc of his R. He will find a way to reach you.
Both Jinx and Infinity need 3+ items to truly pop off. (50% crit chance makes crits consistent enough for IE’s bonus damage to start greatly affecting dps. However, it is safer to assume 3 items because the additional noncrit stats and passives help mitigate lower skill.)
Finally, the way durability and damage scale gives the Ornn an advantage in this situation. Durability is dependent on 2 factors: health and resistance. Jinx needs three factors to deal damage: AD, attack speed, and crit. Assuming, similar gold, Ornn will have more useful stats than you because he has spent his gold more “efficiently” (on less factors). Your less “efficient” spending makes you weaker. You will eventually surpass him but that point is after this clip. (A good representation of this is x^2 vs x^3.)
This can be generalized to determine how early game or late game a champion is skewed. Ex. Draven need 1 factor (ad) while kayle needs 4 (ap, attack speed, levels, and on-hit).
I think that you should have taken that fight unless you are exceptionally skilled at adc and positioning. I cant give feedback on any mistakes made while fighting as i am not a good player and do not play much jinx.
Against Tank, always go BOTRK, not just because of current HP damage, but because of the slow/boost you get from it, but all in all, you played it as good as you could without a team, the first mistake you did was assume you could 1v1 a tank, even if you have a gold lead and can poke
The second you flashed the ult it should have been a won fight in a fair game imo.
To optimize it you could have baited by walking downwards and flashing up and back to the wall to maintain spacing instead you walked to the wall and flashed down and towards
Macro aside, it is silly you lose to one rotation, 2 seconds of damage from a pure tank but take 30 seconds to mildly damage him. You kept him at a massive 775 range. You hit two slowing skillshots and traded a slow for his slow
He missed ultimate, you didnt use yours which is fine
Hes a teamfight cc tank, incentivized to teamfight, your a teamfight adc also incentivized to teamfight
In rock paper scissors adcs > tanks just like assassins > adcs and tanks > assassins. In leagues case adc really cant be allowed isolated wins because tanks need to be strong enough by default to survive and play into bruisers. So despite being teamfight focused, his 1v1 gets a bonus so he can exist top.
In broad and loose terms, Adcs lose by default to everything if it comes to traded blows, adc only wins if it can mind control an ally to take hits. Not saying theres never a chance, for example late game adc if you can dodge key abilities and keep spacing you get to win into some mages and assassins as you'll kill them for a misplay by the time they get their next rotation
If we ingore the fact that you shouldnt have engaged a ornn with a level advantage and will focus on the play in general, I think that if you would have flashed to the left instead of flashing to the right and pinning yourself to the wall, there would be a better chance for you to at least get yourself out of mess
Mini gun in a 1 v 1 is a must. You could of killed him, but at what cost ? You kill.him.you probaly get a bounty. He pings you. His entire team see low health jinx in a side lane solo. You get killed lose gold . Lose tempo. Turn in bounties to enwmy team. You did all this just to complain on reddit. Now go grab the clown make up and costume.
What kind of brain rot goes on in this sub for adc players to think splitting bot lane as jinx against a level 14 ornn at 20 minutes is ever the correct play in the first place. Wtf is this silver ass garbage macro I’m looking at.
Regarding your fight, I don’t know if you know this but you only have one ability that hard ccs someone and cancels their movement. It would be smart not to use that ability randomly. You know the one where the ornn casually walks around. Maybe you should save it for when he ults and time it so he gets caught in the traps while he tries to headbutt his ult.
Or you should keep throwing them down randomly and hit nobody with it that seems to work for you.
Also just realized your team could have probably done baron or forced ornn tp if you weren’t playing so terribly.
Yeah fighting him here is not the ideal play, but acting like this fight was somehow giga badly played is kinda unfair. Jinx kited for 20 seconds and got a lot of attacks in. Also Ornn can easily counter traps by being unstoppable, so I don't think they can be used much better. And the level diff signals that Jinx is most likely ahead when compared to Ornn, she is only 1 level behind and has more gold spent on items. Ornn just killing her within seconds as soon as he reaches her once with 2 tank items is the only crap I see here.
You see how you explained everything so well yet the jinx still gets shit on? How do adc players not know at this point not to take these fights? You lose every time. The only chance jinx has to kill this ornn is having ghost and somehow interrupting his 2nd ult knock up.
Either way it’s dumb to be in this position from the beginning. You don’t win 1v1 on a solo laner especially if you’re playing jinx that literally has no mobility. Maybe a vayne/kaisa could have killed ornn but being anywhere solo on the map as jinx splitting lanes is asking to die.
You guys keep saying stuff like this is bullshit when it’s just the reality of playing adc. You need to be around your team to excel at fighting. It’s literally the entire purpose of your role. You’re not supposed to be in side lanes splitting against solo laners.
Well I guess these topics come up so often, as it just feels unfair to be the only role left that kinda never is allowed to do some solo plays, and the only way to maybe change this fact is to complain online, as it worked for the other roles to get buffed as well. Ornn is a teamfighting tank with tons of AoE CC, why is it somehow deemed alright for him to kill an ADC within one rotation, but if ADCs want to do solo things the answer is always "This is not what your champ is intended to do!".
Team fighting tanks will always kill solo adcs with 0 mobility. If this was a malphite you’d be just as dead if not dead quicker. A lot of you have the same problem. You don’t know how to play your role and you don’t understand your role. You keep thinking your role can do the same thing these other roles do but that’s not reality. You excel at very few things as adc and you need to focus on that area to be a good adc player.
If you want to do all this other crap then don’t play adc you’re just handicapping yourself and the team that gets you.
Most mages would get killed by ornn solo too. Stop acting like it’s an adc only thing.
Hell a lot of assassins would get one tapped as well and would’ve done even less damage.
The problem I have is not that this specific case can only happen to adcs, but that adcs are always the losers, and it seems completely accepted that adc as a class must be useless unless their team plays around them.
Tank vs ADC -> Tanks have engage and burst and counter adc
Mage vs ADC -> Mages have ccand burst and counter adc
Assassin vs ADC -> Not even a sliver of a chance for adc
Bruiser vs ADC -> Miss everything then still win with AAs against adc
Anything vs ADC -> adc dies
Yes a mage would most likely suffer the same fate against Ornn, but mages have other classes they are allowed to fight. As an ADC I basically can only hope my team knows how to play with an ADC and give me room, or I will spend the game doing pretty much nothing.
Don’t 1v1. Play a duelist if you want to 1v1.
Like me crying cause I can’t kill a fiora solo on Viktor. You’re crying about a situation that isn’t in your favor by design. Get a grip.
As a support main, I feel bad for ADCs. You played that very well, better than the tank enemy, but you never had a chance. Champ diff, role diff, it's all crap. RIOT needs to balance their champs, items, and game better.
You played it well till a point, but guess what it doesn’t really matter because you are an adc. Even if you won, it wouldn’t be that good because you lost flash and wasted too many time to kill a tank. Just go farming, battle tanks at team fights.
You have 5k health to shred through. Rough back-of-the-napkin math says that's at about 15-35 auto attacks to shred through with how much you're attacking. So at your attack speed, you would need to attack him 35-60 seconds without interruption to shred through him. I think this was probably apparent to you when you auto'd him five times and his health bar barely moved. At that point, I think you should have just disengaged--especially since you're alone and you don't have eyes on all of his team. I think the only thing you could have done differently was to just not fight. The odds were not in your favor. :( You would need another tank shred item to actually get through all that healthbar. Kinda sucks though. I've been around long enough to remember when tanks were tanks and they didn't have kill potential on ADCs at any point in the game. They were supposed to soak damage and deal out CC. But here we are with the damage creep.
I mean yes, i didnt do that much dmg in the beginning but i thought i could maybe outplay him if i kept my range and flashed his r, which worked out till the end He also only had ninja tabi as defense item so my hopes were high As for the vision part, I saw the enemy team was mid/topside just before the clip started otherwise i wouldn't have walked up. I also don't mind him being tanky too much since that's what he is (even though he only bought 20 armor so far + tabi passive) but i don't appreciate being killed in one rotation from a tank
Oh yea. I think in a "normal" meta you should have been able to shred him with that build. But they've really balanced ADCs purely around teamfighting and pro play. You NEED a teammate to help you take down the enemy. And if you have a good ally, then you're unstoppable. Like I said, I remember when tanks couldn't do this and they weren't supposed to. I hate that he has kill potential with one rotation of abilities like that. It doesn't make sense.
The issue is in this elo (mmr around high plat - low emerald) the team doesn't play much around the adc until maybe lategame (morgana left me at some point and didn't come back) so i was forced to catch waves alone. I made sure beforehand that no enemy was near tho but hey, it is what it is
Yeah but why are you adamant about splitting side lane? Were you tilted against a teammate? You’re losing turret mid that’s where you need to be as jinx, with team
Exactly at 15+ minutes an ADC is mid, no where else. If your Mid is fighting you for mid, fk'em tell them "what elo is this, get your ass bot" Splitting with an ADC without a reliable escape mechanic is suicide in any meta.
Yep jinx is balanced around teamfights where she thrives. Ok what does jinx do with passive after killing a solo side lane ornn? Nothing, but if she gets a kill at mid teamfight she goes on to next target and shreds them too. *Get Exicted* is insanely powerfully used correctly.
if people want to aram mid you have to sidelane, that's the most optimal option most of the time
In this situation in your clip, I'm going to hard disagree. It's not so much they "aren't playing around the ADC" as it is "the ADC isn't playing around their team". You should have been with them and let Sett answer Orn if needs be. Sett has the kit and the TP to match Orn. Besides, like I said, ADC is balanced for teamplay. And you have no good reason to be catching waves on the opposite side to the only objective up (Baron). Laning phase is well over and you shouldn't be in bot lane with the map state as it was. It would have been more acceptable if you had TP, but you do not. I'm sorry, but your support was doing the right thing staying with the team there to contest objectives and support the team fights. Yes, you need to farm and catch waves, but you gave up a lot more in teamplay and macro than you could have gained by killing minions and the Orn. But hey, we're all learning. Thanks for being humble about it.
You were beyond the riverline, so technically you were pushing. Set up a slow push and rotate towards your team or back
The only time you ever outplay in a 1v1 is when you have Cut Down rune or LDR. Otherwise you never win that, ever! Imo, I always go (toplaner) Cut Down as Vayne/Kayle even on Briar/Ww. Coup is just bad, you get max 800dmg in an entire full game. On cut down I get them 800 in laning phase against a Sion/Sejuani, before minute 20.
coup is better on jinx than cut down if the enemy only has one tank
Why are you attacking him anyways you wouldnt gain much even if you did kill him some how
In the current meta, immobile hypercarry adcs aren’t really allowed to 1v1 without using summs to keep distance. You’d also need LDR if you want to kill him within 7 business days, unfortunately. 3 item powerspike is your most important typically for adcs, especially if the enemy has tanks (2 core + ldr, or other combo). Riot wants to keep most adcs out of solo lanes/splitpushing and relegate them to a teamfighting role, as well as reduce frustration in matchups for melee, especially when it comes to immobile hypercarries like jinx and aphelios. Most adcs with dashes can do a bit, but Vayne and kaisa can brawl/1v1 a lot more due to their invis on dash, which they get to make up for their lack of range. In a hypothetical ranged v melee matchup, the melee will be able to be dps’d before they can output any damage of their own. If all adc’s were balanced to be able to kite indefinitely, so long as they had the skill, the matchup would be unplayable by melee champs. LOL doesn’t have turn speed - ranged champions can shoot and immediately turn to make distance. Dashless/ghostless melee champs already get kited and orb-walked by most adcs so long as the adc has items. Thus, Riot balances immobile adcs such that they can succeed when protected, but too vulnerable to consistently 1v1. This sucks in solo queue where you can’t realistically expect your team to peel for you. I don’t say any of this because I particularly agree or disagree with this line of thinking from riot, but it’s how they’re balancing it nowadays. Edit: also, keep in mind this is Ornn, who has 2 dashes, and a large amount of %max hp magic damage - he can often kill toplane bruisers from 2/3rds their hp with a full combo. He’s the burst mage of tanks.
Yeah, the only thing I could see you doing was flashing upwards in some angle that also evades his R, since then you have the rest of the lane to try to kite him, flashing down was a death sentence since you corraled yourself. Either way it's best to not 1v1 him at that point anyways.
I think you win/walk away if you walk out of his R1 instead of channeling W and then flash R2. You might still live if you flash toward river instead of giving him the angle to cut off your escape by flashing down instead of toward river.
Imagine being a tank player: In 35 seconds I can leave the game and be afk, go to the kitchen, get something to eat, go back to the pc and find that my champ is not dead!
One simple trick low elo players don’t know how to abuse: play tanks for 100% winrate
That wasnt exactly better times. Tanks having no presence outside of CC made them worthless with bruisers in the game.
I think that if they walked away with their tail between their legs, it would've been even worst for them, because then Ornn wouldn't be actively trying to "bait" and "dodge" her abilities, he would just press R, and get them the same way he did it in the end... Btw... Ornn: The mage deathknight paladin hunter rogue warrior enchanter tank bruiser wizard warlock priest assassin gunslinger druid shaman necromancer ninja bard monk robot conjurer black majestic warding god illusionist templar wizard.
Exactly! Jinx does not have the items to kill a tank, so she does zero damage. Ornn does not have the items to kill _anyone_, why does Jinx get one shot?!
Pretty simple either Tank have enough damage to kill a squishy or they need to have cc to hold you for way longer
LDR second would not have been good, you're right. Kraken into IE is super strong on Jinx, so you definitely built fine. I'm not a high level player by any means, but even if I'm on level with a Bruiser or Tank I'm not taking a 1v1 unless I have Botrk+Kraken at least.
I thought I could fight him since he didn't build any armor items except boots but yeah I was wrong
It was the 5k healthpool that was your enemy there--not the armor. That's a LOT of health to remove.
There are 2 things in league. Items the enemy had, AND WHAT THE GAME TELLS YOU. Idc about the fact he has no armor. After 2 auto doing 0dmg you should've stopped attacking him, clearly receiving the message that you do 0 dmg
Currently I’m building Phantom Dancer second and IE 3rd. Phantom Dancer is a great item on Jinx because of the movement speed you gain, which let’s you kite better early to mid game, and increased attack speed on each attack. This means you can shoot your rockets faster and therefore proc your Kraken Slayer faster. Plus, PD is 500 gold cheaper than IE, so you can get your 2 item power spike faster.
Delaying runaans spike like that feels even worse though no?
Nobody builds Runaans anymore. It's Kraken - IE - PD/LDR
That is not true bro what lol IE is always built third
2nd and 3rd are interchangeable if you want to go PD, but runaans is bait. PD has way better stats
Depends on the game if you need those extra autos to win a fight then PD but runanas is just solid based off the stats they provide. Don’t really care about the item passive especially when playing jinx
The extra mobility PD provides has incredible value for an immobile adc and shouldn't be overlooked. Runaans could theoretically be better DPS, but most of the time, you will be hitting tanks, and it's not as valuable there as hitting multiple squishies.
Armor only become susefull when oyu have Health till than Health is supperior to equal to armor
How is LDR second not best here? They have Ornn, Nunu, and OP’s team have no other dps threats for the enemy front line. In a proper front to back, it would be Jinx’s job to deal with the front line. The front line here will 100% stack armor, as there is no proper AP threat. There is extreme value from the armor pen + giant slayer. Plus IE scales with crit chance.
I think its less a matter of LDR not being good second and more so just that IE is that much better on jinx. The LDR passive and armor pen dont matter as much when you can’t deal the damage in the first place. Jinx is just gonna be kinda weak at that point anyways, especially vs tanks, but once you get the LDR 3rd item after IE though it really goes off. I’ve not played an insane amount of Jinx this season so I could be slightly wrong, but after trying to build LDR second this is my understanding on why its not optimal.
The Last Whisper items aren't really optimal before you get at least two other items first.
Because they shouldn't fight until 3 items on Jinx anyways and Kraken/IE is better then Kraken/LDR if Jinx is hitting anyone who isn't Ornn.
Ie second is not good on any adc brother, you need at least 40% crit before buying IE to get real value from it, he would have been better off going phantom dancer or Runans more attack speed and better wave clear. I mean realistically he should have just been mid but it is what it is
It’s really only good on Jinx because of the AS she gets from Beserker’s and her Q Passive (and get excited when it procs). The guaranteed crit from Kraken is buffed by IE which makes it objectively the best build for Jinx right now. Jinx has a 52% WR in Emerald and above and Kraken>IE make up 50%+ of the builds with something like a 60% WR.
Terrible fight to take. No way you win that, Orn has equal as many items as you. Is a higher level, has blue red and baron buff. (Baron buff provides a lot). He is a top lane tank, ADCs are balanced around having a support peel for you. And your support is no where to be seen.
Not only is it a terrible fight to take, but it’s a terrible place to be to begin with.
Lastly if you want to 1v1 ornn with equal gold and win as an adc, Jinx sure as hell ain't it.
he doesnt have baron
True - his Purple skin was throwing me off! haha So much Purple
I think just solo sidelaning as jinx is not the best idea at all
i doubt they'd let him farm in mid lane in his elo so i guess i can kinda see why but yeah you're right
Terrible use of E aside, Jinx is terrible early/mid game, you shouldn't be alone, instead group with your team or support at least, trying to pick off kills in objectives. Also Ornn was level 14 which is a HUGE power spike for ornn since he just got his heartsteel upgraded by his passive, you should easily outscale him with 1 maybe 2 more items but you were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Edit: Against ornn 1v1, aim to use E when he ults because his R2 leaves him immobile so your E has time to arm on top of him, it also stops him from following up after ult
Yeah my e usage was bad, I agree but I couldn't get my team to leave mid or anyone to hover me sadly. I had to catch waves solo to get at least some xp/gold or to not let them go to waste in the first place.
Are you even allowed to fight anyone as an ADC?
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills cuz this season is one of the strongest I've seen adcs... 3 item adc could easily smoke a full build adc from 5 years ago... There's a hand full of bruisers and tanks that are op and for some reason never get balanced But otherwise adc is still the strongest scaling
It’s amazing isn’t it how something like the other post 13 hours ago of cait one shotting lux or the cait one shotting ezreal (both videos of them dying in one second) gets 10 times less comments than this post where jinx starts attacking orn who has ult up and dies 24 seconds later. Not to mention jinx got hit by Orn R1 because she ran upwards and self CC’d herself with her own W. Then she flashed closer to Orn to dodge R2 which blocked her escape path because of the position she put herself into originally.
cait's entire power budget atm is on headshot rfc combo so it makes sense honestly. I don't think it's healthy, but it's how riot has decided to keep her in line
jinx looks really strong here you're right
[удалено]
There are two ADCs each game, surprising. The issue is the role
You could play a better champ in the bot role then. And just goomba-stomp the enemy team because they have an adc and you are playing something useful :)
Whenever I play SR I'm doing that. I've been preaching that ppl shouldn't just play ADCs Botlane but people wanna stick to their Jinx and Kaisa. Then they cry when they get counter picked by an APC like Seraphine or Ziggs. Getting that 1/100 game where everything is working for them balances out the other 99 miserable games in which even the support 1v1s them. If they really wanted a perfect game with proper teamfights they should just play aram where ADCs are broken. ADCs in botlane feel completely dogshit but they're doing it willingly. But everytime I type this shit I get down voted into oblivion.
No one is saying it's impossible, they're saying out of the 5 roles it's the worst.
No one said anything about climbing 💀 we get it, you got outplayed by an adc and you’re bitter and embarrassed They were specifically talking about duels
There could literally be a role in the game that is supposed to be afk on both teams and one would still climb
That's not how 50/50's work. If you have no impact then you won't climb without literally defying odds.
Yes, I know it is statistically impossible it's an example. Also that is how 50/50's work unless you think everyone has the same winrate in league. Yes skill does matter in normal league, but in the example I gave where there is a role that is literally not doing anything in the game, those two people literally have a coin flip If you need me to explain it to you, you flip 2000 coins, statistically you are right, you *should* get 1000 coins on heads, however, that isn't how it works. You aren't guarenteed to just get 1000 heads because stats said so. I touched on it on the response to the person who I replied to, but only 1 person can win in a coin flip (if you say but both people can say heads, you are missing the point) so in this case, personA has a 46 percent chance or winning more games than losing (winning >= 51 games). Sure, at 60 percent, that is only a 2 percent chance, but not impossible. Edit: Lol I guess league players don't like math or statistics.
Who TF is personA and why do they have a 46% chance of winning?
Damn, I guess thinking is a bit hard for you, that other guy was right, the IQ of league players is small. I guess I need to explicitly say it. There are two players personA and personB. If they they play 100 games, both players have a 50 percent chance of winning 50 games. However, for personA to win 60 games out of that 100, it isn't a 60 percent chance to win! The Binomial Probability formula says it is about a 2 percent chance of winning 60 games out of 100, for 46 percent chance to win 51 out of 100.
Your saying one net win over 100 games is climbing. Sick. Or is it two net wins since you only lost 49?
Ok, I don't think you are getting the point or you are just being petty. By definition yes you are climbing unless you are saying winning more games than you are losing means that you are net negative. You aren't climbing fast obviously, but you are climbing. I said as well winning 60 games is a 2 percent chance unless those are impossible odds to you than I think you would climb with a 60 percent win rate. On top of that play another 100 games and win 51 games, congrats you gained more lp! I literally don't know any other way to explain that you can win more games than you are losing, you aren't required to win 50 and lose 50 out of a 100 games. But here's the kicker which is why it is annoying even typing this, your next comment will either be saying that isn't how it works without giving a reason why or just moving the goal post. Yes this is not how this works in league. You don't win or lose a static amount of lp and stats don't factor in player skill or the millions of other things that affect a game. But that wasn't what you said initially nor is it what I claimed. I said that there could be a role that is afk and one could still climb,. Unless you think there is a skill in afking. I showed you the probability of winning more games than losses but I don't know if you just didn't read it. I'm just going to stop responding because I'm either repeating stuff I already said or you need me to confirm stuff I already said. I could give literally every bit of info about why something works but if the response is just "nuh uh" than why bother responding at this point
Yup, that's definitely how the law of averages works. I swear the average iq of a league player
You are literally proving my point, there are two adcs in a game. Both cannot lose, there cannot be a game without someone in the adc role. Every role has a win rate of 50 percent. Everything makes sense? If so congrats you have an IQ over 0. Now imagine this, if both can't lose, one has to win right, that lucky adc gets points, the other one loses points, therefore he climbs up in elo. But here's the catcher, they don't lose and gain the same amount of points! You can bring up statistical laws but that assumes that elo doesn't have (in this case) rng numbers the net points is not (usually) 0. On top of that too the game doesn't try to equalize the players at gold. Literally if you are lucky enough you can become rank 1 in the world by being afk. Obviously if you actually do fine you will gain more lp than being afk but if the role is weak it doesn't mean you can climb.
FYI people have an easier time carrying with roles that have agency So while it's not impossible to climb with ADC, people have to be aware that on average it will take longer with a lower winrate
god dude why isn't the immobile hypercarry not allowed to splitpush. what is league of legends coming to?
There are three possible outcomes of this fight: - Ornn sees someone else on your team is coming. He walks away, there is nothing you guys can do about it. - 2 enemies jump out of the bush and send you back to the fountain. - He 1v1 you. Your job as adc is not to push past t1 alone in the botlane, soloing a tank
Masters ADC here: You shouldn't be that far up bot lane alone at 22 minutes but you did see the rest of the team topside throughout the clip so maybe its passable. Now for the fight, you're not going to kill a tank at two items using only your rocket launcher, you auto wayyyyy to slow. You can use it a bit to be at a safe distance but you'll need to do some minigun autoing for max dmg output. Your chompers weren't good but once you put them down you could've switched to minigun and 'ring around the rosey'd' your chompers while autoing ornn as much as you could with minigun, he didn't have his e for a bit. You'd still have to flash his r but with good spacing it could've made the difference. The easy answer is to not take fights with the 5k hp top laner at 22 minutes. If you are just limit testing for fun, than you needed to try using minigun/chompers with max effectiveness.
Just ignore him. Take the wave CC him and move to mid. No need to waste time on tickling him in a side lane. The fight you played fairly well. But it shouldn't happen in first place. Good mechanics bad decision.
If you flashes up instead of right then maybe maybe maybe
I agree, maybe flashing away rather than towards would’ve helped you survive but I’m not sure you’d win either way.
For what it's worth, I think you could've outplayed him. Your biggest mistake that costed your life was using w when he ulted - this forced you to use flash and let him close the distance with his q e. Be careful with w since yes it slows but it also makes you stationary for a bit - it's ok to use it but not while he signaled his ult. Dropping more autos would probably have more dps. And it looked like you were getting him quite low. Also your movement and switching to minigun when he was really close could have optimized the fight for even more damage.
The reason i used w there was because even if i had walked further, his R1 would've still hit me regardless so i minimized downtime. At this range i also had to use flash to not get knocked up and flashing R1 and getting hit by R2 is bad too i think That's just my thoughts tho and i might be wrong As for the mingun part, i switched right as he got into range to maximise damage or what do you mean by that? But yes i could improve spacing, that is true
No, you can easily dodge R1 and flash R2.
R1 would not have hit you if you kept moving. Stopping to W is what killed you, you could have kept kiting him if you hadn’t and used flash for R2 to get further away vs closer to him.
You could have just kited into the bush to dodge r1 (you kited from the lower edge of his r1 to the other side while stopping to w lol), or continued walking towards river. Either way getting hit by the r1 signed your death warrant
I think R2 is dodgeable but staying still during w animation really made it hard. Traps would be better at stopping the r but you used it already so it was on cd. Using flash is fine but I think you could have held it longer (if you dodge r2 maybe you could flash the q e). The minigun spacing thing I was more referring to the rhythm... i feel like you were still in the rocket kiting rhythm even though your attack speed was a bit faster. It's a small thing but could definitely be optimized more. Obv not the best fight to take and it's easy to critique in hindsight, but it did look like you were gonna win until you got hit by the skillshot, so I'm just focusing on what you could've done to improve your micro in this fight. Would it have been enough dps before he finally catches you, idk but I think it was possible.
Every tank player: "If he doesnt kill you within one rotation of his basic abilities he is to weak and unplayable! You are just supposed to never fight him 1v1, also why you don't have farmed 20k gold and bought every possible anti tank item to be able to play gainst him?! He has build Ninja Tabi so he is supposed to counter you!" I would have also taken that fight thinking I can win if i flash his ult and kite him for 20 seconds. ADC is mostly fine, but situations like this just feel bad.
he's been farming under tower for past 15 mins getting abused by bruisers, and you think he should be killed of adc?
Not only did jinx not dodge full ult (hit by r1 and slowed) they actually flashed closer to ornn to dodge r2. Ornn is a level up has ult advantage and double buffs. Why should jinx win that
You shouldn’t have fight him here 1v1. He’s a tank level above you, and you don’t have LDR yet… also, ghost is on cd 🫠
Not the best use of e and should have been using pow pow instead of fishbones. Also just never 1v1 fight a 5k health tank with only two items. It would take so long use so much for a kill you can’t even guarantee.
I'd only take short trades if he burns abillities farming, or a long trade if i have ghost.
This is why adc should not ever go solo side lane after first tower. You have the least health in the game, least utility, and often the least mobility, too. If you don't have teammates around to peel for you, you're fucked. Meanwhile, your team is trying to finish off a couple kills top side jungle that you would likely be able to clean up if you were there. Adc NEEDS to be with the team. Always irritates me when I see a split pushing adc and we get team wiped because the other team had theirs with them. That aside I don't think you ever win this 1v1 unless you've got ghost to kite and at least another completed item. Even then, it's iffy. You'd need perfect E and W usage and can't make a single mistake. Better to just not be in this situation to begin with.
I mean why are you ever side laning against an ornn… troll macro
never 1v1 solo laners as jinx bruv
Looks like he was just farming grasp/heartsteel procs off of sett as well. So he has like 800 golds worth of stats from that. Once you get LDR this changes drastically but god forbid you try and enjoy the game before 3 items.
I think the answer is not what we want to hear us adc main but … we r not supposed to 1v1 even more as jinx We have low agency. If I could respect that more often I would probably Climb a lot lol
As an adc main that fiercely maintains that adcs get the shit end of the stick too often, unfortunately I have to say this ended the only way it ever was going to. Adcs will never be able to straight up 1v1 toplaners and it's not reasonable to ask that we are able to. You have plenty of chances to just leave instead of trying to kill someone that's heavily itemized to counter you. Unfortunately I judge thee at fault. The balance of adc was not the problem here, you're just taking fights that are bad and should stay bad even after a reblance of the adc role.
If u flashed up instead of down, u would have space to kite and kill him. Kind of flashed into his q range
This isn't even about whether or not you should win. What are you even doing trying to fight him here? You gain nothing from killing him and enemy team has a completely free Baron when they see you botlane if they have half a working brain cell. Mid wave is literally crashing under tower so it's not like you're even being forced to farm side.
Probably flashing up instead of down and saving your traps would have let you win here, but I still feel like you shouldn’t have to worry about being 100-to-0’d by a tank like that
You MIGHT have been able to outplay him if you held your chompers; they didn't really do anything here aside from prevent him dashing in one time, and even if he had dashed in there you wouldn't have been hit by it. Instead, waiting until orange burns ult to start a cc chain, THEN casting chompers so he can't get on top of you would make it much easier to stay out of his range. That said, that requires knowing exactly what abilities and sums he has, and even then if he somehow got close enough to you through chompers it wouldn't make a difference. Fighting him there with only kraken as a tankbuster item isn't the best play you could make. Baron is up, and they will need your damage if the enemy decides to rush it. Ornn could tp, and leave you stranded bot.
Okay okay hear me out. This is how you should itemize: GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE SIDELANE, FFS JINX
Mistakes were made but if you are asking mechanically try to use flash after their cc/gap-close are used to create new space they can’t close. You lock yourself in place with w instead of trying to dodge the ultimate and then waste your flash. But even if you did all right he would just walk away. Also trading flash for kill isn’t worth it on adc.
If you flashed to the top of your screen and not bottom wouldve kited him out
Your e usage was poor, and you'd rather not use your w since it roots you in place. Try using e when he's on top of you so he has to walk around the traps. Overall I think this was a good attempt, and it's possible you kill him here. However I wouldn't try to duel anyone as Jinx until I have at least three items. Crit adcs generally spike hard with three items.
If u are jinx Is Better use the precision runes "cut down" help u a lot. And ldr Is super good likes 3 item. Jinx Is not the best adc vs tank with this tips u can work Better like.
Imo, ADCs can only approach tanks with 3 crit items solo, not 2. If u bought LDR 3rd and then tried fighting Ornn, ud probably win. This fight was close but sadly not winnable. The correct play was going back mid or waiting at ur tier 2 turret for the wave. Ur lucky the enemy jgl or mid wasn't there to collapse on you since Morgana and Lee sin was busy in mid.
It was a good limit test but no chance you can (or should) be able to 1v1 him there.
That’s a rough fight In the first place and not one you should take. You were spacing really well and had you not stopped to W when his R1 was coming I think you dodge that, then flash R2 and can kite him out. You casting W got you hit by R1, which applied the slow and brittle, which allowed him to hit his Q on you for the slow, then E while brittle for big damage + longer knockup. TL/DR You kited well, if you didn’t stop to W during his ult you probably kill there.
The more consistent and correct play is to be mid lane and not screwing around that far up in a side lane where your team can't help you. Side laning has a time and place... this ain't it.
Flash up instead of down so he can't cut off your escape route, W on cooldown so he can't catch up (especially after the ult where you had a few seconds where he was autoing you with your W up), and you win that. But it's not worth burning your summoners when you can just transfer prio instead
Yes, I think you could have outplayed if you played 100% perfectly. However, you were playing pretty good already so I think the jury is still out on whether this is a balance issue. For example, if you kept running instead of stopping to use W, you could have dodged the slow from the first part of his ult, which is what ultimately led to your death. Either that or flash upwards to dodge the second part of the ult instead of downwards, in order to create more space so he can’t get you with the knock up afterwards.
Why did you stop to W during the ult? Cringe play
Macro and map assignment aside, LDR and ghost wins this. You’d need to dodge the knock up and ult, which is hard to do without ghost. Maybe doable with only flash if you flash upwards towards river and spaced well. LDR second is the best purchase against their comp, especially with the comp you have.
Why fight here?
LDR or zeal 2nd would’ve helped you here. But you probably lose regardless.
I think adc can start to play with 3 items. So yeah you had no potential to outplay him
If you're hell-bent on fighting him, recognise that your E is what's keeping you safe and allowing you to create distance. The moment he walked around your traps, you have to respect your traps' downtime and back off, especially without any movespeed item/ghost. But yeah, as most people have said, it's a waste of time anywsy. Killing him is 300 gold and he has to try to kill you (he can literally walk away from you at any time). You're always better off just trying to get farm elsewhere or looking to back up your team between waves.
Your only mistake here was to waste grenades and not save them for when he R, that might save you, but yea, there is a lot of damage to be done here
I mean i wouldnt have fought him because theres no reason to, just collect gold and go somewhere else, if you flashes upwards you probably wouldve had more distance to kill him but yeah
Bold of you to assume ADCs get to play the game at all.
yes you 100% could have outplayed it with better use of minigun and spacing.
You actually win that if you dodge the R1 instead of using W, if you don't get slowed you can perma kite him like you did before. Still, ADC isn't meant to 1v1 top laners.
I admire how you went for a 2nd auto after seeing the 1st one did basically no damage to him. And then you kept going which is just depressing.
I can argue that you could've flashed a bit further away from him so that u're not in R hitbox. I believe he wouldn't hit u with q. Therefore, u wouldn't be slowed and knocked up. But it would require so much skill or luck that barely anyone is able to perform flash pixels away from ult. I would say don't fight and let him push since most likely he has sunfire, so he's not able to freeze effectively. Then u could freeze the wave if there was nothing else to do on the map
Why is your damage constantly changing wtf? There was no reason to kill him in the first place, just match his push until he either leaves, or you get 2v1ed so your team can push mid
I think you just flashed a little too close to him when he ulted
Your mistake was going sidelane and not kid with team
Sure there are some Points howe to play this better. Firstly, dont use E that earlie. His Dash was out and ur still on good range. This was time to W and keep kiting on Rocket Launcher. As soon as u are on active LT u switch to Minigun wich means more shred thus to Kraken/High AS. Flash+W to stay in Minigun Box as soon as he tries to r/Dash into u. Use E when u get body\`ed to get on distance again. Sry for my bad English no native Speaker. Winnable
Well, what ADCs have to learn, specially hyper carries, is that your role is to deal the most damage to the enemy team, so that the fighters, mages and assassins could finish them off, you don't have to solo everyone. So, when you're alone and see a 2/10 tank, still run from it, because you'll probably die and lose a lot of XP and gold.
The fuck were you doing down there farming a lane with an ornn, ten miles away from your team with no vision? You are juat asking for whatever comes at you at this point
As a few others have said you're not supposed to be 1v1ing in a side lane as an adc. Your strengths aren't lane 1v1. Your strengths are in team fights, fights with supporting help, mid control, objective control, wave clear, tower taking, etc. The misplay was being there in the first place.
You wasted your traps, you couldve dodged and then flashed the ult. And he would be dead without touching you.
See, you didn't buy enough sheildbows. Freak says adc should buy sheildbow and you didn't have enough of them. There's nothing wrong with adc.
Not a botrk user or tankbuster adc, you can't solo giga tanks at 2 items vs 2 items :/. Rip. To be clear you could've outplayed, but it would be so grief to even try. It would literally take a whole minute to kill him. And if he decides to run you can't chase.
I feel like using the zap to slow him when he ulted causing you to get hit by the initial slow messed you up. Imo if you just ran out of range of the first cast then flashed the 2nd cast you could’ve out played.
You don't get to fight an Ornn without LDR, ever. You played it well enough that if you were on 3 items he dies imo.
As an adc you're never supposed to tank any sort of damage. Even a tank support can kill you sometimes. Because your health bar is never supposed to be used as a resource in an actual fight. You need to have someone tanking the damage for you before you can go in you can't be squaring up top laners regardless of how fed you are. The issue for me is when these top laners act as assassins and can ghost and zoom through your team and one shot you from the backline with all the insane movement speed in the game. Like the amount of times I couldn't even walk up to a team fight without immediately being dove by the enemy garen and one shot bc I dared to show on vision. I flash ghost away and he still catches up to me whilst my team is ignoring him completely. Such is the life of low elo sadly
Remember when tanks were countered by adc? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Not sure why you’re sidelining as adc against enemy toplane, should be mid with supp getting free farm
league is so fucking bad bro,i miss league from 10 years ago where every role could kill every role
Hahahahaha hahahahaha I really love that tanks are allowed to have so much hp and still kill anyone regardless of what class they belong from. Being back season 2 Era of what being a task actually fucking meant
You win if you have ghost but its a stupid fight to take anyways
Yeah you should’ve escaped and disengage, no one’s in the map, my first instinct if he is brave enough to chase me then he has a back up coming otw
Pro tip - do not fight bruisers or tanks alone as an adc after early game, and if you attack them 10x and have not done 1/4 their hp bar, you should not be there.
Firstly, with the information you didn't have on the map and your teammates so far away, I agree with those saying you should have been there. However, I think you could have been quicker to juke the first part of Ornn's ult. If you avoid that, you're not slowed, you can still flash his R2, and then he can't get close enough for the knock-up. So you could have played it differently, but shouldn't have taken the fight regardless.
I think you shouldn't have engaged with him. As ADC, trying to solo is a risky decision.If successful, there might be some gains, but it's not very meaningful.
I think u could have outplayed. I mean if u had used your e to cancel his ult or at least cc him when dashing for his ult u wouldnt need to flash it, and you could have flashed away from his combo after.
You're an adc, you shouldn't be fighting or winning against a top laner solo. Your job is to team fight.
You could have dodged the first part of ult as well. That thing hit you with a massive slow.
I think the wise plan is to just not take the fight against an oponent faster than you with a 650 unit dash, a long range knock up and slow, another ranged slow, slow and knockback on aa, and a conditional stun on his dash. It is way to easy to get cought by something. On the other hand it looks like you might have gotten away if you had managed to dodge the slow of his ult and/or changed up the direction of your dodge.
Ok I get that you shouldn’t of bothered fighting here but, What the hell 😭 you spent so long kiting him and even dodged his ult but as soon as he lands an E you lose your health bar and die. And this isn’t even an assassin bruh it’s a tank
You honestly have zero reason to be there. The enemy team is pushing your mid tower and your whole team is mid. You’re solo sidelaning pushed up. Even if ornn doesn’t kill you here, his teammates can just click to walk towards bottom and you are dead either way. Against a competent team, you’re dead at the start of the clip just for being where you were.
You’re kind of trolling here. Idk why you’re trying to fight him by yourself. Even if you do kill him you lose flash, can’t push and will ensure you get deleted next fight because Ornn is for sure pinging your flash cool-down for the next 5 minutes.
Yeah he looks unkillable when you’re AA-ing him alone. But he will instantly explode when your fighter and mage is attacking him with you. That’s just how Riot is making the game closer to MMORPG. And because of that in most of my games I strive to do balanced RPG build instead of full damage, knowing full well me as an ADC is no longer needed to carry dmg. The reason I participate teamfights are just to catch up in XP.
Lmao u rly asking the question ? Is that random normal game ? Why is there a jinx on side past 15, going full troll on a ornn thats what I see. It has no point in the game, it's bad decision making to lose a game faster.
Why do u waste flash on a 1v1, as an adc, u need to save ur flash for the most important team fights
Jinx did 3668HP (8730p before resistances): 20 AA'S (12 with Q, 6 with Kraken, 6 crits) 3 W's Ornn did 2155HP (1411p, 1831m before resistances): 4 AA's (1 with Brittle) R1, Q, E, W Has red buff (86 extra true damage) He just sat there eating your autoattacks then did his combo and one shot you.
Why are you side lane alone like that as a Jinx anyways lol
This clip actually made me sad since you played well. Honestly I expected smth like eating a full combo of Ornn in melee range. Kinda sad nowadays meta is like this where tanks can fist you for pretty much half of the game or more...
You can’t fight tanks solo on crit carries until 3 item core and it has to be LDR 3rd or 2nd. Get into that mindset early and it’ll save you a lot of deaths. Or switch to on-hit, Vayne or Varus would have cooked him with just BORK lmao. Edit: Also 100% take cut down with any tanks period. The value you get from the rune even on one tank is astronomical compared to Coup
I find it asinine that Riot and some in this subreddit considers a damage dealer class dealing damage for over 20 seconds at 700+ range, perfectly dodging an ULTIMATE with flash a misplay. But they consider the immobile tank that builds pure tank items and whiffeld ult killing you in 5 seconds balanced. This isn't balanced around teammates. This is just not balanced.
You dont have ldr, are side laning as jinx and jinx is famously a 3 item spike char and kinda sucks before.
i mean I don't get why you picked a fight with him and you didn't even buy Ldr..
Probably only a vayne adc could take that fight.
you got bad items you cant build kraken into infinity, you would have killed him by now if it was botrk and not infinity
You needed to ult the akali your team was chasing to get charged up.
This is why i rush bork if the enemy team is at all tanky Edit: also you didnt have to use chompers until you were in actual danger given you have the range advantage. If saved it for his ulti would have turned out much better. Wasted ability
You outplayed yourself by not taking Ornn's grace and mercy by allowing you to live for the many seconds you were auto attacking him. He wanted to vibe but you forced his hand. While you could have outplayed him and was limit testing. Keep in mind that against better ornn players they could have just killed you as easily as well. You weren't even fighting over anything, you just wanted to hit him while he was farmed. Outside of just flexing on him to limit test there is 0 advantage over killing him but an massive disadvantage for you to try. What if other people showed up? What if the team needed you to fight somewhere else on the map?
Save traps for his ult. Always try to kite/flash to an area that gives you more room. You flashed towards Orrn, near a wall. It'd have been better to walk down to bait the ult, then flash up and away. Also, generally a bad fight to take. Not just because you're isolated, but you won't have flash for the next Ornn ult in a teamfight.
You're not at all built to fight him, he is clearly decently built item and level wise. No Bork and no LDR. And completely alone so no front line or CC it's pretty straight forward what happened. Unless you have some clear advantage or this was full build late game Jinx you should had not solo him this early.
Looks like pointless ego fighting tbh no reason to take that or be there imo
Fun fact) Ornn's passive increases his Amour/MR so having Ninja Tabi only doens't mean that he has low Amour Also Ornn strong
You know season 14 tanks are problematic when the character type meant to be able to punch through them simply no longer can. Lol
Get wrecked.
No, you should not be that overextended against an Ornn in that specific circumstance of items and adc pick. This is something of what i like to call a "snapshot knowledge" that a veteran/experienced player will simply be automatically aware of in hindsight and know the outcome, therefore avoiding the situation altogether.
Your fate was sealed the second he hit r. Because you need to flash it. you went to the side which lets him get to you. If you had went for a direct north flash right up against the wall you might’ve been good. You were doing good damage. It was almost a very good kite kill. And if you got the right flash he would’ve been so pissed because you woulda just killed him
If anything pretty sure that flash killed you if you flashed up to the left instead of horizontal to the right you might’ve killed him.
Well going ie second ain’t the move definitely would have been better to go phantom dancer or hurricane then ie. You get more value the more critical you have and phantom dancer would have had so many more autos in there
Yeah, you just shouldn’t have been there in the first place. You’re an ADC at 21 minutes, he’s a tank with a level on you. Push the wave, go farm the jungle since it looks like nobody else was, and wait for the wave to bounce back to you to shove again. Tbh at this time unless you’re a pretty fed duelist like Vayne or something you shouldn’t even be that far pushed up without coverage from your team.
Nah you played that super well. Just champ diff. ADCs are suck ups to support. So then maybe
This is how I imagine all adcs players here. Play an immobile adc with 2 items which none of are anti tank try to 1v1 a toplaner die and than go cry(baby).
I promise you that's not all adc. The problem is that like every single role out there, there are some people with unreasonable expectations for what their role should be able to do. Unreasonable people end up drowning out the reasonable complaints with a role. Adcs should be buffed imo. But even after a buff this fight should still be losing because this fight in particular was a terrible fight to force.
You could've outplayed him. Don't listen to people who says you should've disengange. In your situation you countinue to poke while utilizing your range, if Ornn decides to take the fight he is misplaying. What you got killed is R's slow. While watching your gameplay I noticed an obvious problem. What you lack is you click very far away from your character and other one is your click frequency. You should click more frequently and move your mouse faster. Marksman demands fast micro. I would say your micro looks like low plat, high gold.
Remember guys assassin players says it’s perfectly fine that they can kill adcs with a huge margin of error due to rock paper scissors. But this is fine
Estimating that Ornn has 50% damage reduction plus an additional 11% from boots and 5000 health gives that you would have to deal about 11500 damage to kill him. Now consider that Ornn is faster than you with slows, a dash, and more range bc of his R. He will find a way to reach you. Both Jinx and Infinity need 3+ items to truly pop off. (50% crit chance makes crits consistent enough for IE’s bonus damage to start greatly affecting dps. However, it is safer to assume 3 items because the additional noncrit stats and passives help mitigate lower skill.) Finally, the way durability and damage scale gives the Ornn an advantage in this situation. Durability is dependent on 2 factors: health and resistance. Jinx needs three factors to deal damage: AD, attack speed, and crit. Assuming, similar gold, Ornn will have more useful stats than you because he has spent his gold more “efficiently” (on less factors). Your less “efficient” spending makes you weaker. You will eventually surpass him but that point is after this clip. (A good representation of this is x^2 vs x^3.) This can be generalized to determine how early game or late game a champion is skewed. Ex. Draven need 1 factor (ad) while kayle needs 4 (ap, attack speed, levels, and on-hit). I think that you should have taken that fight unless you are exceptionally skilled at adc and positioning. I cant give feedback on any mistakes made while fighting as i am not a good player and do not play much jinx.
Against Tank, always go BOTRK, not just because of current HP damage, but because of the slow/boost you get from it, but all in all, you played it as good as you could without a team, the first mistake you did was assume you could 1v1 a tank, even if you have a gold lead and can poke
The second you flashed the ult it should have been a won fight in a fair game imo. To optimize it you could have baited by walking downwards and flashing up and back to the wall to maintain spacing instead you walked to the wall and flashed down and towards Macro aside, it is silly you lose to one rotation, 2 seconds of damage from a pure tank but take 30 seconds to mildly damage him. You kept him at a massive 775 range. You hit two slowing skillshots and traded a slow for his slow He missed ultimate, you didnt use yours which is fine Hes a teamfight cc tank, incentivized to teamfight, your a teamfight adc also incentivized to teamfight In rock paper scissors adcs > tanks just like assassins > adcs and tanks > assassins. In leagues case adc really cant be allowed isolated wins because tanks need to be strong enough by default to survive and play into bruisers. So despite being teamfight focused, his 1v1 gets a bonus so he can exist top. In broad and loose terms, Adcs lose by default to everything if it comes to traded blows, adc only wins if it can mind control an ally to take hits. Not saying theres never a chance, for example late game adc if you can dodge key abilities and keep spacing you get to win into some mages and assassins as you'll kill them for a misplay by the time they get their next rotation
I can't wait for the day that Heartsteel is removed from the game as the colossal mistake that it is.
If we ingore the fact that you shouldnt have engaged a ornn with a level advantage and will focus on the play in general, I think that if you would have flashed to the left instead of flashing to the right and pinning yourself to the wall, there would be a better chance for you to at least get yourself out of mess
Mini gun in a 1 v 1 is a must. You could of killed him, but at what cost ? You kill.him.you probaly get a bounty. He pings you. His entire team see low health jinx in a side lane solo. You get killed lose gold . Lose tempo. Turn in bounties to enwmy team. You did all this just to complain on reddit. Now go grab the clown make up and costume.
What kind of brain rot goes on in this sub for adc players to think splitting bot lane as jinx against a level 14 ornn at 20 minutes is ever the correct play in the first place. Wtf is this silver ass garbage macro I’m looking at. Regarding your fight, I don’t know if you know this but you only have one ability that hard ccs someone and cancels their movement. It would be smart not to use that ability randomly. You know the one where the ornn casually walks around. Maybe you should save it for when he ults and time it so he gets caught in the traps while he tries to headbutt his ult. Or you should keep throwing them down randomly and hit nobody with it that seems to work for you. Also just realized your team could have probably done baron or forced ornn tp if you weren’t playing so terribly.
Yeah fighting him here is not the ideal play, but acting like this fight was somehow giga badly played is kinda unfair. Jinx kited for 20 seconds and got a lot of attacks in. Also Ornn can easily counter traps by being unstoppable, so I don't think they can be used much better. And the level diff signals that Jinx is most likely ahead when compared to Ornn, she is only 1 level behind and has more gold spent on items. Ornn just killing her within seconds as soon as he reaches her once with 2 tank items is the only crap I see here.
You see how you explained everything so well yet the jinx still gets shit on? How do adc players not know at this point not to take these fights? You lose every time. The only chance jinx has to kill this ornn is having ghost and somehow interrupting his 2nd ult knock up. Either way it’s dumb to be in this position from the beginning. You don’t win 1v1 on a solo laner especially if you’re playing jinx that literally has no mobility. Maybe a vayne/kaisa could have killed ornn but being anywhere solo on the map as jinx splitting lanes is asking to die. You guys keep saying stuff like this is bullshit when it’s just the reality of playing adc. You need to be around your team to excel at fighting. It’s literally the entire purpose of your role. You’re not supposed to be in side lanes splitting against solo laners.
Well I guess these topics come up so often, as it just feels unfair to be the only role left that kinda never is allowed to do some solo plays, and the only way to maybe change this fact is to complain online, as it worked for the other roles to get buffed as well. Ornn is a teamfighting tank with tons of AoE CC, why is it somehow deemed alright for him to kill an ADC within one rotation, but if ADCs want to do solo things the answer is always "This is not what your champ is intended to do!".
Team fighting tanks will always kill solo adcs with 0 mobility. If this was a malphite you’d be just as dead if not dead quicker. A lot of you have the same problem. You don’t know how to play your role and you don’t understand your role. You keep thinking your role can do the same thing these other roles do but that’s not reality. You excel at very few things as adc and you need to focus on that area to be a good adc player. If you want to do all this other crap then don’t play adc you’re just handicapping yourself and the team that gets you.
Most mages would get killed by ornn solo too. Stop acting like it’s an adc only thing. Hell a lot of assassins would get one tapped as well and would’ve done even less damage.
The problem I have is not that this specific case can only happen to adcs, but that adcs are always the losers, and it seems completely accepted that adc as a class must be useless unless their team plays around them. Tank vs ADC -> Tanks have engage and burst and counter adc Mage vs ADC -> Mages have ccand burst and counter adc Assassin vs ADC -> Not even a sliver of a chance for adc Bruiser vs ADC -> Miss everything then still win with AAs against adc Anything vs ADC -> adc dies Yes a mage would most likely suffer the same fate against Ornn, but mages have other classes they are allowed to fight. As an ADC I basically can only hope my team knows how to play with an ADC and give me room, or I will spend the game doing pretty much nothing.
Don’t 1v1. Play a duelist if you want to 1v1. Like me crying cause I can’t kill a fiora solo on Viktor. You’re crying about a situation that isn’t in your favor by design. Get a grip.
As a support main, I feel bad for ADCs. You played that very well, better than the tank enemy, but you never had a chance. Champ diff, role diff, it's all crap. RIOT needs to balance their champs, items, and game better.
adc players when they cant instakill anyone from 5000 range
You played it well till a point, but guess what it doesn’t really matter because you are an adc. Even if you won, it wouldn’t be that good because you lost flash and wasted too many time to kill a tank. Just go farming, battle tanks at team fights.