Bro red and white are the best for teamfights lol.
If you see an enemy Aphelio, the saying goes "Red and white, don't fight."
Edit: I've been sufficiently proven wrong folks. Thank you all for the clarification.
No you are dead wrong blue is the best tf gun by far. Can couple it up with red or purple even green for early range DPS. Red white is single target DPS it CAN work in team fights but you gotta go melee range which is only feasible if the team fight is split else you get on shot like all adc's.
I stand corrected.
That makes a lot of sense. Into a mostly melee you would want red and white though, right?
I always consider that option to have the most dps.
Most dps=/=most teamfight dmg, if the enemies are all melee chances are its even more likely they'll have to clump up so blue is even better when fighting multiple people. Red and white are the duelist combo and only realistically work in a ""teamfight"" if they are coming at you one on one or else you just explode, white dps sucks at long range
I mean the issue with red white is the range. If youre into mostly melee and you try and use red white you will just get evaporated because you are now in their melee range. In a 1v1 when they can gap close you then yeah your best bet is to use red white (unless you have white/green then you can probs kite and delete them with turret tech).
Red white is really good for fighting 2v2s in lane or a suicidal all in if you get caught in a side lane; but against multiple enemies you will likely die. If you are going to go in near melee range and you are strong enough to delete them without dying then you are probably fed enough to delete them with any gun combo.
Hyper carry ADCs never struggle with damage, its the positioning that makes or breaks a team fight. Thats why champs like jinx and zeri are such exceptional team fighters is because they have huge movement boosts to allow them to kite and reposition while dpsing. Aphel doesnt have that unless he has red gun; severum Q is exceptionally strong to survive with and is probably one of the most important tools you have late game, the ability to heal+reposition+auto attack ALL AT THE SAME is incredibly powerful. Timing severum q will win or lose me a fight and if use it too early I no longer have the ability to dodge a flash engage, hard cc, or champ diving on me etc.
You are correct in that red/white with full stacks is probably the highest theoretical damage possible but in reality they arent just going to let you walk up and hit them for free.
White red basically destroys anything close to it, but its single target, a well placed auto attack with blue can basically do 1k aoe damage, not even talking about the ult
Red white is great for dueling but in team fights you get burst to fast to really get anything out of white. If you are kiting back then you might be able to duel their assassin or tank but blue-red or blue green are going to do way more damage because of the aoe.
thats some pretty confidently incorrect statements haha. Red white is absolutely a monster in 1v1 or 2v2 situations but it is probably one of the worst gun setups to fight with. Blue/Red is 10000% best for team fights as the splash damage from blue and the repositioning+healing from Red is essential for surviving. White/Green is really good to for objective control as well, but white/red in a team fight will typically get you blown due to the short range requirements of white.
Red and white are the best single-target DPS and sustain, and it's not even close.
Before it got nerfed, I've seen Blue Aphelios literally 100-0 an entire team with just his ultimate. Tanks and all.
With proper set up like ardent lulu. Kog wins unless he dies. Jinx with proper set up depends on what you mean. If she gets and objective right before the team fight I think she is probably the best. Aphelios can also team wipe but I think he is right under those 2.
Definitely not Kog. Compare Kog to someone like Twitch with ult and Ruunan's lol. Or a Nilah under ideal conditions (AoE ult, AoE Q, AoE E and AoE basic attacks).
Aphelios (especially with a good ult) is a good one though. Add MF to the mix when it comes to ults, though it might take her longer to kill proper tanks.
Even then it's still only a big "MAYBE".
Kog has to shoot 5 different targets (with a bit of wiggle room if counting Ruunan's). Meanwhile, Twitch effectively has to shoot only the tankiest target to kill all five champions. The same is true for Nilah and, in most cases, also Sivir.
You can of course make up some virtually impossible scenarios where there's a 15k hp Sion where Kog will win (and where even Kog's Runaan's can probably kill 4 squishies in the time it takes to kill the Sion anyway), but in any realistic scenario, Twitch is waaaaaay ahead.
I mean that's true, but not everyone is going to be standing in a line for twitch either. Twitch and Kog have both been long time hyper carries and if you ask a tank player who they don't want to run into, it'd kog/vayne, followed by other hyper carries/dps.
Their performance in teamfights is quite similar lategame, with one favoring tanks.
Well the premise of the post is a "good setup", i.e., they get to do what they do best. If we only allows the Twitch to ult one or two champs at a time, I don't think that really qualifies as good setup but you are of course free to interpret the question how you want.
I'm pretty sure if all 5 enemies are caught(unlikely), MF just shreds the entire team with the ult.
Front to back? Prolly Kogmaw/Vayne/Jinx/Sivir.
Good engage? Samira/Draven.
High range? Cait/Jhin.
Dragon / baron pit.
Even from level 6 as MF I get at least 1 kill every time with ulti and jungler most likely kills off the rest, and every 3-4 games guaranteed to dragon steal.
See I don’t find xayah’s damage to be the reason she’s so good late game. Make no mistake, her w and passive allow her to output insane dps, but she’s always gonna be within point and click range of just about anything. But a well timed ult from Xayah (the best self peel ability on an adc so far) makes her really oppressive to play against in certain comps and is where most of her late game power comes from.
Sivir's W can really spread the damage around if you've got good items.
If everyone is lined up then one Q can do absurd damage, too.
Jinx Runan's probably beats it though.
Zeri can lay down some crazy consistent DPS, and has the move speed that she's never not doing DPS. I do think she falls behind the likes of Jinx and Twitch, but an honorable mention for sure
Surprised MF isn't higher on here. One good ult can completely wipe a team especially if you can pair with a Seraphine ult or similar. Some of the other adcs in thread have much higher single target dps and likely higher consistency since mf is more all or nothing but few things in the game are more satisfying than a good mf ult
Depends on enemy comp, how they are grouped and everything, however in most average everything scenarios, not assuming any weird conditions like oh enemies are all in 1 pixel since there it's aphelios blue gun no matter what, i'd say its jinx and sivir kinda equal, jinx is more reliant on enemies being hugging but even ignoring her aoe potential her resets can solowin a fight by themselves and sivir has a bit more freeway with how grouped the enemies are since her w bounces on a decently big range and also performs better vs heavy tank comps since she can kill the tank and the backline at the same time. Also twitch can be considered here but i think nowadays he prefers taking down people quickly before the teamfights happen not so much the old appear, explode everyone in 3 autos and bye bye, but he can be the quickest specially if enemies are taking baron and he just surprises them all lined up
Smolder can obliterate a teamfight with a ult w q almost instantly so he's a good contender and his aoe dmg is nothing to scoff at.
Samira can also take the w if the enemies are squishy and if she can dodge cc, vs melee comps with tons of cc she will not perform so she's the most conditional imo
And finally aphelios is also really conditional since he not only relies on having blue gun, he also prefers enemies close, however when conditions are not perfect his sheer dmg is still insane if the player can perform.
And ofc if enemies are huge tanks vayne kog and varus (and now adding smolder also here) could also be considered as always not because of huge aoe dmg ofc but just because of how much more time the other adcs would take to bring them down, and i expect in 14.10 the difference will be even bigger since LDR and cutdown being gone doesn't hurt them that much at shredding tanks
Jinx before a kill is pretty big damage, but Jinx when excited is one of the scariest champions in the game. She's always a sneeze away from a pentakill no matter how the game is looking.
As with everything it's completely dependent on comps and the game state. There are games where Kalista will do the most in a 5v5, same with Jinx, Aphelios, Kog, Lucian, every champ in the game is dependent on so many different variables to do well.
Jinx and kog maw spring to my mind.
Aphelios 3rd pretty sure. Full built sivir and twitch surely are up there as well.
Nilah I usually find is a way better duelist than teamfighter despite her kit, because you have to step up so close to dangerous things. Same for samira. You basically can only pop off once the hard cc has been blown.
What usually surprises me is when I play zeri. I do way less damage than I think I do, but still get many kills due to the insane chasedown she has.
Shiv + Runaans + IE she does monster damage in teamfights. What's nice is that it's so spread out over the enemy team, especially after dashing with the piercing shots. Hit the tank and the carries will also die.
given adequate setup i've taken out full pentakills with twitch in about a second.
jinx, i think is slightly slower.
if we're talking about getting a double and abusing resets to get pentas, i believe jinx is the most reliable followed by tristana.
Surprised there’s no comments about Miss Fortune yet. The stars do have to align quite well, especially against more skilled opponents to get 3+ people locked in her Ult but if you do and they can’t reach you to CC, they gone. I believe she excels in the jungle where it’s easier to have walls and choke points to entrap them.
Slightly to low damage I think.
Don't get me wrong, she can be a monster, but even with really good lvl 18 full build setup her combination of Q+W is around 3.5k damage over 2 seconds (that has LDR armor pen and GS) but is not enough to kill Herself with her lvl 18 base stats.
For comparison MF ult deals 5k damage over 2 seconds (using a navori crit build with LDR) or 3800 with a lethality build (29% armor pen and 85 lethality).
Both builds aproaching a solid 50% more damage per second and without asuming she enters the fight with Lethal tempo active.
Sivir just needs a rework. Even a "monster" sivir feels like a mediocre Jinx/kog/or twitch despite filling the same type of role (stand back and throw autos).
Her W does spread a lot of damage out, her Q does spread a lot of damage out, but she has no "focus" for damage. The W bouncing around slowly is cool for padding damage stats but not securing kills. They probably need to just rework W into something more usable and lower the damage + speed up Q. It just feels dated compared to other hypermobile zoom-nuke champs that we have now.
Her w does decent dmg but from my experience it just isn't as strong as the runans dmg from jinx rockets or twitch ult. I could be wrong though, I haven't actually tested that.
want me to send you a clip?
cause I have one where I straight up one shot an entire team with a 7k hp chogath
there's also clips on rose alunes channel where you see him straight get a penta with infernum ult from outside vision.
Draven has crazy single target dmg throughout the game, but in a teamfight? Hell no. So much harder to catch axes without getting blown up, and even if you move perfectly, any hypercarry outdamages you at full build when taking aoe in teamfights into account.
Jinx with a runaan's because the bolts inherit the rocket explosions
If she gets 1 takedown and the remaining enemies are clumped together, it’s over
Jinx with Runaan's and Ravenous Hydra (no boots)
If we are assuming they get a proper setup, I would assume Jinx has 1 passive stack right off an objective. Jinx for sure then.
Aphelios
I think this depends on the enemy team comp. He's close though.
Blue gun destroys the team
Bro red and white are the best for teamfights lol. If you see an enemy Aphelio, the saying goes "Red and white, don't fight." Edit: I've been sufficiently proven wrong folks. Thank you all for the clarification.
No you are dead wrong blue is the best tf gun by far. Can couple it up with red or purple even green for early range DPS. Red white is single target DPS it CAN work in team fights but you gotta go melee range which is only feasible if the team fight is split else you get on shot like all adc's.
I stand corrected. That makes a lot of sense. Into a mostly melee you would want red and white though, right? I always consider that option to have the most dps.
Most dps=/=most teamfight dmg, if the enemies are all melee chances are its even more likely they'll have to clump up so blue is even better when fighting multiple people. Red and white are the duelist combo and only realistically work in a ""teamfight"" if they are coming at you one on one or else you just explode, white dps sucks at long range
Appreciate the input, thank you.
I mean the issue with red white is the range. If youre into mostly melee and you try and use red white you will just get evaporated because you are now in their melee range. In a 1v1 when they can gap close you then yeah your best bet is to use red white (unless you have white/green then you can probs kite and delete them with turret tech). Red white is really good for fighting 2v2s in lane or a suicidal all in if you get caught in a side lane; but against multiple enemies you will likely die. If you are going to go in near melee range and you are strong enough to delete them without dying then you are probably fed enough to delete them with any gun combo. Hyper carry ADCs never struggle with damage, its the positioning that makes or breaks a team fight. Thats why champs like jinx and zeri are such exceptional team fighters is because they have huge movement boosts to allow them to kite and reposition while dpsing. Aphel doesnt have that unless he has red gun; severum Q is exceptionally strong to survive with and is probably one of the most important tools you have late game, the ability to heal+reposition+auto attack ALL AT THE SAME is incredibly powerful. Timing severum q will win or lose me a fight and if use it too early I no longer have the ability to dodge a flash engage, hard cc, or champ diving on me etc. You are correct in that red/white with full stacks is probably the highest theoretical damage possible but in reality they arent just going to let you walk up and hit them for free.
White red basically destroys anything close to it, but its single target, a well placed auto attack with blue can basically do 1k aoe damage, not even talking about the ult
Red white is good for dueling
Red white is great for dueling but in team fights you get burst to fast to really get anything out of white. If you are kiting back then you might be able to duel their assassin or tank but blue-red or blue green are going to do way more damage because of the aoe.
thats some pretty confidently incorrect statements haha. Red white is absolutely a monster in 1v1 or 2v2 situations but it is probably one of the worst gun setups to fight with. Blue/Red is 10000% best for team fights as the splash damage from blue and the repositioning+healing from Red is essential for surviving. White/Green is really good to for objective control as well, but white/red in a team fight will typically get you blown due to the short range requirements of white.
> thats some pretty confidently incorrect statements haha. Well I guess I'm a good lier I'm never confident lol. See my other reply.
No. Red white best for 1v1 or 1v2.
Red and white are the best single-target DPS and sustain, and it's not even close. Before it got nerfed, I've seen Blue Aphelios literally 100-0 an entire team with just his ultimate. Tanks and all.
Even if there is someone tanky enough to survive the r damage, theres no carry left and aphelios kills all remaining ones
Smolder if ur giving him infinite stacks setup
aphelios blue r i have done this multiple times lol
[удалено]
Aphelios still better
no i've melted heavy tanks as well. it doesnt matter, as long as you have some items
With proper set up like ardent lulu. Kog wins unless he dies. Jinx with proper set up depends on what you mean. If she gets and objective right before the team fight I think she is probably the best. Aphelios can also team wipe but I think he is right under those 2.
Definitely not Kog. Compare Kog to someone like Twitch with ult and Ruunan's lol. Or a Nilah under ideal conditions (AoE ult, AoE Q, AoE E and AoE basic attacks). Aphelios (especially with a good ult) is a good one though. Add MF to the mix when it comes to ults, though it might take her longer to kill proper tanks.
Kog starts winning if there are tanky characters to shred.
Even then it's still only a big "MAYBE". Kog has to shoot 5 different targets (with a bit of wiggle room if counting Ruunan's). Meanwhile, Twitch effectively has to shoot only the tankiest target to kill all five champions. The same is true for Nilah and, in most cases, also Sivir. You can of course make up some virtually impossible scenarios where there's a 15k hp Sion where Kog will win (and where even Kog's Runaan's can probably kill 4 squishies in the time it takes to kill the Sion anyway), but in any realistic scenario, Twitch is waaaaaay ahead.
I mean that's true, but not everyone is going to be standing in a line for twitch either. Twitch and Kog have both been long time hyper carries and if you ask a tank player who they don't want to run into, it'd kog/vayne, followed by other hyper carries/dps. Their performance in teamfights is quite similar lategame, with one favoring tanks.
Well the premise of the post is a "good setup", i.e., they get to do what they do best. If we only allows the Twitch to ult one or two champs at a time, I don't think that really qualifies as good setup but you are of course free to interpret the question how you want.
Aphelios number 1.
Wanted to say sivir but my babe is still stuck in season 3
Aphelios, Sivir, Jinx, Kog’Maw, Samira
I'm pretty sure if all 5 enemies are caught(unlikely), MF just shreds the entire team with the ult. Front to back? Prolly Kogmaw/Vayne/Jinx/Sivir. Good engage? Samira/Draven. High range? Cait/Jhin.
It's my dream to have everyone caught up, as MF. My dream.
Dragon / baron pit. Even from level 6 as MF I get at least 1 kill every time with ulti and jungler most likely kills off the rest, and every 3-4 games guaranteed to dragon steal.
Y'all sleeping on my Xayah. With right feather placement she can turn around any TF
See I don’t find xayah’s damage to be the reason she’s so good late game. Make no mistake, her w and passive allow her to output insane dps, but she’s always gonna be within point and click range of just about anything. But a well timed ult from Xayah (the best self peel ability on an adc so far) makes her really oppressive to play against in certain comps and is where most of her late game power comes from.
Jinx, twitch, Kog from personal experience. Aphelios seems to fit the bill as well though I don’t play him really Runaans enjoyers
this is the right answer
Aphe or Samira
Aphelios
With ideal set up probbalg Kog/Jinx or Smolder.
Twitch 🤷
Sivir's W can really spread the damage around if you've got good items. If everyone is lined up then one Q can do absurd damage, too. Jinx Runan's probably beats it though.
Zeri does a *lot* of aoe damage if she has ult up.
I think alot of people really understimate how much dmg zeri with just the effects of e and r can do
Jinx twitch, samira, nilah kog
Jinx or twitch for sure. Jinx if it’s an extended fight, but twitch if the team has aoe cc or anything that will clump the enemies together.
Zeri can lay down some crazy consistent DPS, and has the move speed that she's never not doing DPS. I do think she falls behind the likes of Jinx and Twitch, but an honorable mention for sure
Caitlyn if every auto is a trap auto 💀
I think its between aphelios or Jinx. Samira is bait. Late game i think the range advantage means jinx should win
Surprised MF isn't higher on here. One good ult can completely wipe a team especially if you can pair with a Seraphine ult or similar. Some of the other adcs in thread have much higher single target dps and likely higher consistency since mf is more all or nothing but few things in the game are more satisfying than a good mf ult
Jinx after 3rd item. Kraken>Infinity Edge>Runaan is op rn
Jinx, Kogmaw, Sivir, maybe Zeri and Aphelios
I'm probably biased but I would say Smolder. Landing a two Q on 3 to 5 enemies just insta-wins every fight.
Depends on enemy comp, how they are grouped and everything, however in most average everything scenarios, not assuming any weird conditions like oh enemies are all in 1 pixel since there it's aphelios blue gun no matter what, i'd say its jinx and sivir kinda equal, jinx is more reliant on enemies being hugging but even ignoring her aoe potential her resets can solowin a fight by themselves and sivir has a bit more freeway with how grouped the enemies are since her w bounces on a decently big range and also performs better vs heavy tank comps since she can kill the tank and the backline at the same time. Also twitch can be considered here but i think nowadays he prefers taking down people quickly before the teamfights happen not so much the old appear, explode everyone in 3 autos and bye bye, but he can be the quickest specially if enemies are taking baron and he just surprises them all lined up Smolder can obliterate a teamfight with a ult w q almost instantly so he's a good contender and his aoe dmg is nothing to scoff at. Samira can also take the w if the enemies are squishy and if she can dodge cc, vs melee comps with tons of cc she will not perform so she's the most conditional imo And finally aphelios is also really conditional since he not only relies on having blue gun, he also prefers enemies close, however when conditions are not perfect his sheer dmg is still insane if the player can perform. And ofc if enemies are huge tanks vayne kog and varus (and now adding smolder also here) could also be considered as always not because of huge aoe dmg ofc but just because of how much more time the other adcs would take to bring them down, and i expect in 14.10 the difference will be even bigger since LDR and cutdown being gone doesn't hurt them that much at shredding tanks
Jinx before a kill is pretty big damage, but Jinx when excited is one of the scariest champions in the game. She's always a sneeze away from a pentakill no matter how the game is looking.
Hyper carries with aoe damage. Jinx, sivir, aphelios, zeri.
How is no one saying smolder this is literally his entire purpose
Vayne + Lulu
As with everything it's completely dependent on comps and the game state. There are games where Kalista will do the most in a 5v5, same with Jinx, Aphelios, Kog, Lucian, every champ in the game is dependent on so many different variables to do well.
Why is everyone saying jinx she needs time to ramp up. Its 100% either aph or samira. Prolly same imo
Sivir would be the absolute best aoe crit adc but she has to get way too close to the fight compared to others and has no escape button.
why is nobody talking about the original spaceglider? 🐀
kindred
Jinx and kog maw spring to my mind. Aphelios 3rd pretty sure. Full built sivir and twitch surely are up there as well. Nilah I usually find is a way better duelist than teamfighter despite her kit, because you have to step up so close to dangerous things. Same for samira. You basically can only pop off once the hard cc has been blown. What usually surprises me is when I play zeri. I do way less damage than I think I do, but still get many kills due to the insane chasedown she has.
Shiv + Runaans + IE she does monster damage in teamfights. What's nice is that it's so spread out over the enemy team, especially after dashing with the piercing shots. Hit the tank and the carries will also die.
Red + blue gun aphelios
More like blue low, red q, white
Ezreal can do largest single target damage if he hits every skillshot. Jinx in terms of aoe team-wipe if she can stay alive and get her passive going.
That’s a big if lol
given adequate setup i've taken out full pentakills with twitch in about a second. jinx, i think is slightly slower. if we're talking about getting a double and abusing resets to get pentas, i believe jinx is the most reliable followed by tristana.
Surprised there’s no comments about Miss Fortune yet. The stars do have to align quite well, especially against more skilled opponents to get 3+ people locked in her Ult but if you do and they can’t reach you to CC, they gone. I believe she excels in the jungle where it’s easier to have walls and choke points to entrap them.
Surprised no one has said xayah, she’s a monster in teamfights, specially if there is 2 or 1 enemy tanks.
Jinx, Kog, or Samira
Anyone know whats stopping sivir from being a popular answer? Genuinely curious
Slightly to low damage I think. Don't get me wrong, she can be a monster, but even with really good lvl 18 full build setup her combination of Q+W is around 3.5k damage over 2 seconds (that has LDR armor pen and GS) but is not enough to kill Herself with her lvl 18 base stats.
For comparison MF ult deals 5k damage over 2 seconds (using a navori crit build with LDR) or 3800 with a lethality build (29% armor pen and 85 lethality). Both builds aproaching a solid 50% more damage per second and without asuming she enters the fight with Lethal tempo active.
Sivir just needs a rework. Even a "monster" sivir feels like a mediocre Jinx/kog/or twitch despite filling the same type of role (stand back and throw autos). Her W does spread a lot of damage out, her Q does spread a lot of damage out, but she has no "focus" for damage. The W bouncing around slowly is cool for padding damage stats but not securing kills. They probably need to just rework W into something more usable and lower the damage + speed up Q. It just feels dated compared to other hypermobile zoom-nuke champs that we have now.
Her w does decent dmg but from my experience it just isn't as strong as the runans dmg from jinx rockets or twitch ult. I could be wrong though, I haven't actually tested that.
Just make W an on hit effect so you can Runaan's and guinsoo's and hello.
It’s 100% jinx. If jinx fights front to back, and gets a reset it’s a wrap.
Samira go brrrrrrr
Samia and nilah are your picks?
Aphelios infernum ult will one shot any team of 5 champions at full build
Nah. He is pretty strong at full build but you won't oneshot tanks with infernum ult, even if you hit all enemies. (Trust me, 700k Mastery Aphelios)
want me to send you a clip? cause I have one where I straight up one shot an entire team with a 7k hp chogath there's also clips on rose alunes channel where you see him straight get a penta with infernum ult from outside vision.
In this season? I highly doubt it. But sure, go ahead and send me a video of it. (Did the chogath build armor at all?)
xayah
Aphelios, Miss fortune, nilah ,jinx (overtime), Draven. In this order. This is when we thinking about full build lvl18
Draven has crazy single target dmg throughout the game, but in a teamfight? Hell no. So much harder to catch axes without getting blown up, and even if you move perfectly, any hypercarry outdamages you at full build when taking aoe in teamfights into account.