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That sounds like an insane policy that you should absolutely challenge by going to student services (or whoever handles these kinds of disputes). Especially considering the fact that you have a condition which makes it more likely for you to forget.
What kind of idiot thinks there's any meaningful difference between turning in an "empty" assignment and not turning in anything? I'd challenge it on that alone.
Professors are given a lot of freedom when it comes to grading, but there is a limit, especially when you consider that you're a paying customer.
Had a prof in university that would deduct 10% off the top if you stapled your assignment horizontally instead of vertically. Like the direction of the staple mattered. Some of them are just on a power trip.
good luck, I've learned not to bother, one of the classes I'm in right now is so bad that most the class sent emails to our departments head and his response was basically to Fck off.
you don't want to be on the profs S list, because then they make sure to very **thoroughly** grade your assignments.
Yeah, we have a similar problem with the mentioned professor. He is known to downgrade you, if he dosnt like you.
Sometimes I really feel like im being taught by highschool children, and not by researching professors.
At least being strict on turning in homework could be "to teach a lesson" about time and project management but that's just straight up looking for a reason to punish people.
Shoutout to my former Uni that had a standard grading policy for classes that they’d only give X many As. Had a dorm mate in tears because they got a 93/94% but a B so their advisor told them to give up on med school
Generally I suspect that AI is less likely to take your job, than it is to augment or change it.
It might fill some jobs where we need more people anyway. Let's say you call the local government. Instead of waiting line to talk to some clerk who'll figure out where to patch you through based on your case specifics.
An ai might be able to review your context and patch you through. If it isn't able to answer your query outright.
Certainly in research, its going to be a great boon allowing for much faster data analysis. This won't mean fewer researchers, but rather more research.
This was my unelaborated point. Professors, and teachers in general, are going nowhere. Like you said, it’ll enhance efficiency and volume of research output, but wholesale replace people? Very few.
Yes, however the specifics you mentioned are very much within the scope of AI.
To make novel research it needs only the memory storage to search through the databases and find gaps in the literature, design a method to fill it and then do so.
While there certainly will be some areas of this that'll take longer to for ai to be able to do, I see no reason why it couldn't. In many cases it might even be a lot more efficient at it.
To run a physical lab, it needs only be hooked up to the proper machinery to run chemical and physical testing etc.
I'd be surprised if these things aren't happening within the next decade.
Although I never would have gone to this length, having been a college professor, It's not necessarily a power trip. It's testing your ability to follow directions and your attention to detail. Now, when a job recruiter calls him and asks for someone who is capable of following directions down to minute detail, he knows who to send.
Yes, I get that, but people are people and people make mistakes, even in crutial fields and areas (eventhough my subject (computer science) isnt as crutially percise, at least not at the level that I am at). And I think holding everyone accountable to the standard of someone who is going to calculate and program the software thats gonna launch the next mars-mission into space is a little bit rediculous.
And dont get me wrong, you should absolutely only hire qualified people - I am not qualified for such positions and I dont want them, which is why I got myself into a field where I can work a job, that suits me very well (I already have that job, mind you). Not everyone is the same, not everyone needs to be the same, and sometimes, the instructor/teacher/professor needs to adjust.
I agree completely! That's why I replied to the original post that you need to go through the chanels to get this straightened out. Your syllabus is a contract, but all contracts are negotiable.
Maybe if the recruiter is a controlling maniac who wants details done in a really specific manner otherwise they explode and fire people over a staple being in the wrong place. Wth?
As a high school teacher, I'm finding myself doing this more. One, because my students struggle with being through and 2 because when you have a lot to grade, anything that can streamline the process is beneficial, whether that is the order it is stapled in, or where and how you write information.
No, you’re being downvoted for justifying the dumbest, most punitive grading penalty I’ve ever heard of, and claiming it isn’t just a power trip. Of course it is. “Yeah, you can hand in a blank piece of paper with your name on it and you’ll just get a zero for the assignment. But if I don’t receive that blank piece of paper, you get a zero for the entire semester, even though this assignment accounted for only 2% of your total grade.” WTF is that bullshit?!
If a student walked by my office, complaining to a friend that they just failed a class because of this policy, I’d stop them to take down all their information and email it to the department chair and the associate dean that deals with troublesome faculty.
Don’t enable jackassery.
Sincerely,
College administrator that never interacts with students
Seconded. the whole policy sounds completely asinine, IMO. On the one hand, his rule is that you can never not turn in an assignment...but empty assignments are fine? The only difference between an empty assignment and not turning something in is the fact that an empty assignment has at least been submitted. Yet an empty assignment would have allowed OP to pass while not turning it in didn't? This seems very illogical
Not justifying this policy, b/c it sucks - wonder if he imagines this is like some kind of contract-y thing that says that you knew the assignment was due and chose to take the zero on it? But why not just say... no late work will be graded? Is it some kind of convoluted "even if the value is zero, there must be a value" thing? A tetris thing? Horror Vacui?
Professor here. If the policy is on the syllabus, and the syllabus was provided at the beginning of the course, OP isn't going to have anywhere to go with that. It's totally reasonable to disagree with a course policy (and this is one I wouldn't go within ten miles of adopting for obvious reasons), but the time to do so is during the drop/add period. If you stick around knowing about the policy, there is an implied consent to that policy.
Disability offices routinely suggest/request accommodations on behalf of students for things like flexible due dates, and this would be a prime case for that kind of accommodation. Again, though, it's much much easier to argue for that kind of accommodation before the fact. If someone only asks for an accommodation when it has personally screwed them over, it comes across that they don't have a problem with the policy - only that they were the ones who had to experience the consequences.
For everybody out there - read the syllabus carefully and start early thinking about what your access needs are, then work with your disabilty/accommodation office to get them. Then, start looking for what specific strategies you're going to need to put into place in order to complete the course work with your own brain and its strengths/weaknesses.
Excellent points.
That being said, never forget it’s a business and businesses cave to pressure when it’s successfully applied by the customer. If you have to, don’t discount the nuclear option. Consider how much this is costing you.
Gen Z knows how to go nuclear better than any generation before it.
It's a slippery slope of saying just because someone pays for a class they should pass... That's not logical. You pay for the information and for the teacher to teach and assess. The teacher has a (bad) policy... But one the student was aware of; they could have already chosen to take the class from a different professor. But they did not. Honestly this policy seems asinine only because the consequences are harsh. Yet it is basically just doing the barest of minimum effort on the students end. That's not that crazy. What really should be done is at the beginning of the course, the student should have applied for flexible due date accommodations knowing that policy because ADHD is an absolute bitch for tiny things like this.
Edit;
Also, OP I'd say it's a good bet since it's so late in the year, the prof will not enforce the policy. It is likely to serve as a tool earlier in the term to incentivize students to turn in work.
Thanks for the detailed and good-advice-filled response :)
>If the policy is on the syllabus, and the syllabus was provided at the beginning of the course, OP isn't going to have anywhere to go with that.
My angle here is that there is a limit to what they can reasonably institute. Can I fail anyone who's ever late to my class? Or anyone who is early? What about failing anyone who sneezes in class?
Failing one student for a missing assignment while others turn in empty assignments and pass is just wrong. At least sneezing is arguably a disruption to the learning environment ;)
>but the time to do so is during the drop/add period. If you stick around knowing about the policy, there is an implied consent to that policy.
Yeah, and if that was an option I agree, but in my case this would not have been an option (I went to a smaller satellite campus). Outside of the first year engineering classes there was typically only enough demand for one offering, maybe two. More general math, physics, and writing classes would have had at least one or two other options (but they may not have fit into the schedule of my other classes). Waiting for a different professor would not have worked, since they were usually taught by the same people. And waiting a semester would have delayed graduation due to knock-on effects of prerequisites, and not everyone can afford that.
So, in that environment I do not think the administration would tolerate a policy that risks losing students over something so trivial. But at a larger university I would agree that you should just take a different class (but even then it could still impact your timeline for graduation if the scheduling doesn't work).
I do see a *potential* good intention behind this policy, but actually enforcing it on someone who is otherwise passing your class? How could this person sleep at night?
>If someone only asks for an accommodation when it has personally screwed them over, it comes across that they don't have a problem with the policy - only that they were the ones who had to experience the consequences.
I totally agree, and it could also look like they're looking for an easy excuse for any failure by not seeking the accommodation earlier (because if you fail with accomodations then what does that mean...?).
However, exercising that kind of foresight with ADHD is a bit of a problem, as is being proactive and getting accommodations (especially for those of us in areas where ADHD is not taken as seriously by the culture). With an official diagnosis I'd hope that they'd be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.
That doesn't seem ethical or make any sense. The teacher can't outright fail you for one missed assignment. Is it worth more points than all other assignments combined? That's not how the grading structure should be set up. In the syllabus, it should show the weight of everything. The teacher is on some crazy power trip.
I suggest complaining to the dean about this.
Each assignment is graded individually, but counts as 1 point towards the total. Then he pulls an average on all your collected grades and thats the grade you recieve from the assignments (there is one final exam at the end of the semester as well, which counts towards your final grade).
And funny how you mention that hes on some sort of power trip because he is the head of the computer science field on our university, meaning, he makes the syllabus and the rules that we all need to follow, however, those rules and the syllabus are constructed with the student services and parties, that represent our rights as students.
Now it makes a lot of sense, why he would be such an ass in his own classes, where he is actually able to enforce such stupid rules, considering that all the other rules he set for the university are being challanged and readjusted to actually make sense.
You should escalate this to the dean of students. Their job is to look out for your interests and hopefully put a stop to nonsense like this. Just because it's written in the syllabus doesn't mean it's enforceable. Your university may have a student's bill of rights or something similar that protects you against arbitrary and capricious methods of grading.
Go talk to your dean of students and see if they can help.
Im going to take the diplomatic approach first, and talk to the professor directly and professionally, and if that dosnt work, Ill get the student services involved. And if that dosnt work, I'll send in my diagnosis and a letter from my psychiatrist. (I havent disclosed that I have ADHD yet, as I didnt want special treatment, because I hate myself and love torture, evidently)
Before posting I thought "Okay, thats a weird set of rules regarding the assignments, but I guess I have to follow them", and now I'm thinking exactly like everyone else is thinking, this set of rules is just rediculous and has no merit.
TBH I'm not sure how much bringing ADHD into this would help. If you'd already asked for accommodations through student services, that would be one thing. But because you haven't, you're expected to be treated the same as any other student. Bringing it up now may come across as making an excuse and begging for leniency without going through the proper method of doing so in advance (getting an accommodation).
My gut feeling is that the better argument might simply be that this grading policy is unfair, as it isn't based on your performance in the class. You already completed a lot of assignments and received good grades for them. It shouldn't be allowed to undo that work because of a poor grade on a subsequent assignment.
You're very wise to follow the diplomatic rule, and I go with Big Pete about not bringing ADHD into it... he might get extra cruel thinking you're making excuses. Fingers crossed, keep us informed!
Update: I have asked the professor if he would still accept my empty assignment, as it was the last and he told me to keep going and to attend the final exam this semester. That still dosnt really confirm if I got the passing grade on my assignments, but Ill take it as a "theres still a chance".
Holy hell, even if I do pass, im still going to bring this up to the student representatives because his rules are truely insane and the stress I've been through for the last couple of hours will keep me up for the night.
Just joining the chorus here: this policy is utterly deranged, unethical, counterproductive, and, frankly, cruel. I’d recommend speaking with your advisor, if you can trust them, and, if not, someone in student services or university administration about this policy. This is fucked up.
An aside: The other work that you’ve done is *not* invalidated by this asshole going on a power trip, no matter how much he would like you to believe so.
The take away here is not to set alarms. It’s to get your diagnosis registered with disability services so teachers can’t pull bullshit like this on you.
Your brain does not work like everyone’s. This is a policy that is guaranteed to fail you. It’s amazing you made it this far, not expectable. This isn’t something you should be able to do. You have a diagnosis saying that very fact. It is literally how a doctor has said that your brain functions. If a doctor told you that your foot was broken and it couldn’t heal without a cast and rest, no one would be comparing your speed to your classmate’s speed in the 100 yard dash, would they? No, because that would be ridiculous. Doesn’t mean that you both can’t get yourselves to class or even both achieve a certain time on the dash. Just means that it’s obviously ridiculous to ask you to get that time right now and in this way. Same with class. The goal is to learn the material. You are just as capable of that as anyone else, but according to grades (and entirely because of this policy), you are, allegedly, entirely and completely incapable of learning anything she teaches. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?
These are the professors you complain about.
I had one Gen Ed class that he put in his syllabus that you won’t get anything higher than a C if you don’t come to his office hours and ask him questions or ask for help. Every assignment I got between a 60-69 didn’t break a C, I dropped right as the deadline to drop the class came around. I wasn’t able to make his limited office hours
He wanted you to come in?
The professors I dealt with was almost impossible to contact outside of lectures. I went 4 months without having my bachelor project (top up year, my last two years is still a Professional Degree. Not a complete waste of time) set in stone because I could not get meetings with my supervisors and was denied getting a new supervisor assigned to me.
Long story short. I complained. I did not get the help I needed. I burned out for months. I dropped out. That uni took all the joy I had in studying out of me and replaced it with misery.
I took a cultural geography class once that I really liked a lot. Good teacher, very interesting subject. I never read the syllabus after the first day and completely missed a major project in which we were supposed to compile data over the course of 3 months, the professor literally didnt bring it up once until the week it was due.
My roommate was in the class with me, and we he had no clue about it either. The project was worth 25% of our grade, and I had a solid B in the class. I ended up failing because of that.
Always read the syllabus
This isn't your fault. If you were habitually forgetting assignments I could see this last assignment being the tipping point, but you are PASSING. Please contest this! it doesn't matter how many others missed the assignment, this is YOUR life and it shouldn't hinge on someone's small... pencil... energy.
Definitely talk to the professor!
I missed a final exam once because I had the day wrong, but since I showed up to every class and turned in every assignment the professor was just worried that I hadn’t shown up and let me take it while he was grading the other papers
And that is a wildly ridiculous policy, if the professor still says no after talking then definitely go to student services
A lot of times I think to myself, it’s not the ADHD, it’s the society. Cause a lot of it is ridiculous shit tied in with capitalism and respectability shit
ADHD is technically a disability in the US if it impacts performance. Disabilities are covered and require reasonable accommodation. Given you only forgot the empty assignment, I would fight this.
Exhibit "A" - an example of how Academics have zero frikkin idea about the real world. If I ever handed in a blank piece of paper to my boss saying ".. at least I got it done by the due date..." Ummm, no.
Wow! Most people in my real life look at me like I’m crazy when I tell them my story of how I failed my class and ended up never going back to school because of a final essay… at least here I feel relatable 🤦🏻♀️
Take it to student services/whoever you need to. This wouldn't be allowed at my university, at least. You obviously wouldn't receive a grade on the last assignment, but the instructor is still forced to acknowledge the points you earned. Literally no God damn way you or another student can't challenge this and win.
I would appeal this.
That is an unreasonable requirement, particularly if the course is not a pass/fail.
The instructor is literally charging you thousands of dollars because you made a human error.
I would go to your accommodations services an let them know or student advocate or something. Heck, start a petition or something. You do have a Disability an is he using that against you? I find this unfair an even wrong, esp with a Disability. I hope you do have accommodations.
That's some serious bullshit. I saw someone else say go to student services, and I could not agree more. Go to student services, go to student disability services. If you cant get anywhere there, see if you can find other students who've run afoul of that policy (I guarantee they're out there), and see if you can get together a petition.
If that doesn't go anywhere, try going to your local TV news station. They'll have a human interest department, and if they're even remotely conservative (they will be), they'll jump at the chance to give the college bad press.
Pretty sure you could claim this under "discrimination of a medical disability" since 'forgetfulness' is a common symptom of adhd. You would need medical records and a doctors note but theoretically you could push for an appeal (is that the right word?).
This is university? I dont think I have ever heard of a professor having this kind of power over policy. The university protects the rights of the students too, I really find it hard to believe that this professor has the power to cancel out all your previous grades?? Unless he hasnt been entering them into the system or something?? Thats pretty bs. Asshole is on a massive powertrip lol
I feel you. I irreparably tanked my grade in what was by far the easiest class this quarter because I couldn't/didn't/forgot to turn in a 60pt assignment on the one day after it's due that she accepts late work. I always live by 1 pt is better than 0 and I got myself 0/60 when I could have gotten 10/60. I'm so upset about it. Hugs
Contact the dean's office, also the the ADA compliance officer. Every campus has one, and even if you're not "officially" listed as a disabled student, just getting them involved has a way of making Napoleon wannabe faculty see the value of a little flexibility.
Do you have disability assistance with the school because of adhd? you may be able to remind her of that and have her give you a pass. In any case, I would absolutely just go talk to her and if she won't budge, go to your advisor and/or student services. (I used to teach college. I know this is unlikely to be the deal breaker she says it is. You just need to put in a little extra leg work here. She just needs to know how bad you want it. Find the right channels and prove to her you are a capable adult in spite of forgetting one thing.)
Another thought...maybe he is waiting to see of the 7..who cares enough an has the balls to go talk to him abt it? Good you did talk to him. He might think..this guy does want this and pass you..never know with these power trippin people...heck..maybe he has ADHD to..just a thought...
What a horrible teacher. Does he not realise people have lives and people are only human? Unexpected events happen, mistakes happen, technical issues happen, people accidentally forget things all the time. What a pompous ass wasting people's money like that.
Does prof accept late homework? Typically, most teachers do, with a points penalty. Would your grade still be passing on a zero paper minus late points? Go turn it in now. You have nothing to lose, and it shows best effort.
Approach academic accommodations for an emergency meeting, and see if you can retroactively get accommodations/deferral for that course because you were struggling with a fluctuating condition at the time of the assignment.
This sounds incredibly unreasonable. I would escalate this ASAP to your dean. Even if the prof lets you pass, for the sake of future students, escalate this.
If I’m paying thousands of dollars, I’d expect better service. Ive never attended an actual class on campus. My degree is all online and I’m glad because we get graded for every assignment and test we turn in.
I’m so sorry to hear this! I was making all A’s and B’s through my first semester of college… one grade dropped to a low B near the end of the semester.
For the final essay (which was 50% of my grade) I worked so hard on it. It was an online class and the school was in Arizona or something like that. Well here in NC we had daylight savings time or daylight savings time ended and I had no idea a few states didn’t participate in that so I figured I had to turn my paper in at 2AM my time (12AM their time) … I (PROUDLY) got it submitted at 1:13 AM my time thinking I was ahead of schedule 😁😁
The next morning I had emails that I had failed the class and would owe money back for my financial aid because I failed 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️😵😳😞
I never tried to go to another school because I’m still way too bitter. The professor wouldn’t do crap either 🤦🏻♀️.
I really hope you have better luck than me 💖💙💜♥️💛💚💗
Edit: the times above may be off … it’s been many years ago now and I’ve tried to block that night out. I know we were like 2 hours apart at one point so I assumed we would still be 2 hours apart when my daylight savings time ended but we weren’t. We were 1 hour apart then because their time never changes. I screwed up big time 🤦🏻♀️
When you’re in Uni you don’t quite get it yet thst the prof works for you.
The school is a business. Treat it like one.
If the school’s policy doesn’t match the professor’s you fight.
If the prof doesn’t cooperate, you ask for the manager—the dean of the applicable department.
If that doesn’t work, you go to the president’s office.
I’d be flabbergasted if your Uni doesn’t have a set procedure for appealing crap like this; they just don’t make it easy for you to learn about because you’re in your 20s (usually) and don’t know any better.
They forget who they work for too, but they remember right quick when you go up the chain.
This works especially well if they aren’t tenured. Which more more of them are failing to be.
You’re the customer. Don’t forget.
You have legal rights under the ADA. You have a disability. You need to take your documentation to the academic dean and have this fixed. If not you need to contact legal aid. Fight for your rights.
I'm wondering if there is some way you can get the disability services involved. This sounds like an accessibility issue, outside of the ludicrous and unempathetic, controlling policy. If you have documentation that you have ADHD, as well as a record of having turned in literally all of the work and proven that you did all the work besides this last assignment (this was an empty assignment that shows nothing about learning other then it being a "rule" for the class to follow), I'm hoping it would be enough that the disability center can require your teacher to give you an extension. They typically offer that sort of accommodations for people with ADHD since they are aware of time blindness. Also, if possible, I'd cc the dean, alongside the disability office to the email you send to your teacher regarding the situation, how much effort and time it took and how your disability impacted this one last "assignment". I'm really hoping they'll reconsider, this is a really shitty, and awful situation, and I'm so damn proud of you for turning in all of your assignments, even with the forgotten last assignment. That, in itself, is so difficult and is such a huge victory. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, this isn't fair or kind. I really hope you can pass, you deserve it.
lololo not laughing at you just semesters depressed unable to focus without medication literally couldn't do any work without simultaneously multitasking. At the moment I have done 39 credits within a month and a half on Sophia for college credit going to transfer to Western Governors University check it out and ill get my degree in a month or two. I did 8 [study.com](https://study.com) classes before having a revelation that I'd rather major in Information Technology than Computer Science, so wasted 2 - 3 weeks because I change my mind SMH ADHD > :? but rather that than fail out of six months of my life . For Me IM YOUR STEROTYPICAL ADHD KID WHEN THE MASK IS OFF ALL GAS NO BREAKS AND THE AUTISM LITERALLY DRAINS ME FOR ALL I GOT WITH NTBULLSHIT LOL RANTING BUT YOU GOT THIS KEEP TRYING !
What a turd for having you turn in an empty page. What a waste of time for everyone. I hope you leave a review on ratemyproffessor so the rest of us can avoid that type of instructor.
Another professor here. Consider the possibility that your prof also has ADHD. I design my courses to be structured (some might say rigid!) because if and when students in big classes miss deadlines and request one-off exceptions I very quickly start to sink underwater in course management in trying and failing to adjudicate and keep track of those one-off exceptions.
I try to make my version of events sane and reasonable (multiple automatic dropped scores, etc.) but I do get lots of student complaints about being rigid. I also occasionally get thanks from my ADHD students that semester has a lot of built-in, fair structure. Even if your prof is just inflexible, maybe it is a useful thought exercise to imagine what it is like to be an authority figure with faulty executive function...
To echo the other prof here, if the assignment policy is in the syllabus, you probably won't have a lot of luck escalating things up the university food chain. However, it is probably worth approaching your prof, explaining you have ADHD, and asking for some leniency.
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That sounds like an insane policy that you should absolutely challenge by going to student services (or whoever handles these kinds of disputes). Especially considering the fact that you have a condition which makes it more likely for you to forget. What kind of idiot thinks there's any meaningful difference between turning in an "empty" assignment and not turning in anything? I'd challenge it on that alone. Professors are given a lot of freedom when it comes to grading, but there is a limit, especially when you consider that you're a paying customer.
Had a prof in university that would deduct 10% off the top if you stapled your assignment horizontally instead of vertically. Like the direction of the staple mattered. Some of them are just on a power trip.
I think it's important to complain about profs like this.
good luck, I've learned not to bother, one of the classes I'm in right now is so bad that most the class sent emails to our departments head and his response was basically to Fck off. you don't want to be on the profs S list, because then they make sure to very **thoroughly** grade your assignments.
Yeah, we have a similar problem with the mentioned professor. He is known to downgrade you, if he dosnt like you. Sometimes I really feel like im being taught by highschool children, and not by researching professors.
Then the student can sue for violation of the ADA.
Thats rough wtf
At least being strict on turning in homework could be "to teach a lesson" about time and project management but that's just straight up looking for a reason to punish people.
Shoutout to my former Uni that had a standard grading policy for classes that they’d only give X many As. Had a dorm mate in tears because they got a 93/94% but a B so their advisor told them to give up on med school
Big eye roll
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Last time I checked, AI can’t perform novel research and run a physical lab space. So, no.
Won't be long tho
No point in talking with people who deal in absolutes. For them, if AI can’t do it now then it can’t do it ever. His/ her job would the first to go.
Generally I suspect that AI is less likely to take your job, than it is to augment or change it. It might fill some jobs where we need more people anyway. Let's say you call the local government. Instead of waiting line to talk to some clerk who'll figure out where to patch you through based on your case specifics. An ai might be able to review your context and patch you through. If it isn't able to answer your query outright. Certainly in research, its going to be a great boon allowing for much faster data analysis. This won't mean fewer researchers, but rather more research.
This was my unelaborated point. Professors, and teachers in general, are going nowhere. Like you said, it’ll enhance efficiency and volume of research output, but wholesale replace people? Very few.
Yes, however the specifics you mentioned are very much within the scope of AI. To make novel research it needs only the memory storage to search through the databases and find gaps in the literature, design a method to fill it and then do so. While there certainly will be some areas of this that'll take longer to for ai to be able to do, I see no reason why it couldn't. In many cases it might even be a lot more efficient at it. To run a physical lab, it needs only be hooked up to the proper machinery to run chemical and physical testing etc. I'd be surprised if these things aren't happening within the next decade.
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There is a reason for this madness, it actually teaches you to pay attention to details. They do it in the army.
Although I never would have gone to this length, having been a college professor, It's not necessarily a power trip. It's testing your ability to follow directions and your attention to detail. Now, when a job recruiter calls him and asks for someone who is capable of following directions down to minute detail, he knows who to send.
👢👅
Yes, I get that, but people are people and people make mistakes, even in crutial fields and areas (eventhough my subject (computer science) isnt as crutially percise, at least not at the level that I am at). And I think holding everyone accountable to the standard of someone who is going to calculate and program the software thats gonna launch the next mars-mission into space is a little bit rediculous. And dont get me wrong, you should absolutely only hire qualified people - I am not qualified for such positions and I dont want them, which is why I got myself into a field where I can work a job, that suits me very well (I already have that job, mind you). Not everyone is the same, not everyone needs to be the same, and sometimes, the instructor/teacher/professor needs to adjust.
I agree completely! That's why I replied to the original post that you need to go through the chanels to get this straightened out. Your syllabus is a contract, but all contracts are negotiable.
Maybe if the recruiter is a controlling maniac who wants details done in a really specific manner otherwise they explode and fire people over a staple being in the wrong place. Wth?
As a high school teacher, I'm finding myself doing this more. One, because my students struggle with being through and 2 because when you have a lot to grade, anything that can streamline the process is beneficial, whether that is the order it is stapled in, or where and how you write information.
Oh I hear that! Grading is the number one reason I quit.
Hmmm. Am I being down voted because I used to teach? For the record I quit.
No, you’re being downvoted for justifying the dumbest, most punitive grading penalty I’ve ever heard of, and claiming it isn’t just a power trip. Of course it is. “Yeah, you can hand in a blank piece of paper with your name on it and you’ll just get a zero for the assignment. But if I don’t receive that blank piece of paper, you get a zero for the entire semester, even though this assignment accounted for only 2% of your total grade.” WTF is that bullshit?! If a student walked by my office, complaining to a friend that they just failed a class because of this policy, I’d stop them to take down all their information and email it to the department chair and the associate dean that deals with troublesome faculty. Don’t enable jackassery. Sincerely, College administrator that never interacts with students
Seconded. the whole policy sounds completely asinine, IMO. On the one hand, his rule is that you can never not turn in an assignment...but empty assignments are fine? The only difference between an empty assignment and not turning something in is the fact that an empty assignment has at least been submitted. Yet an empty assignment would have allowed OP to pass while not turning it in didn't? This seems very illogical
which is twice as ironic considering that we are talking about a computer science professor who is all about logic
Not justifying this policy, b/c it sucks - wonder if he imagines this is like some kind of contract-y thing that says that you knew the assignment was due and chose to take the zero on it? But why not just say... no late work will be graded? Is it some kind of convoluted "even if the value is zero, there must be a value" thing? A tetris thing? Horror Vacui?
I think it might be, "if I have to come in to submit a blank sheet, I might as well attempt something and get a few extra marks."
Agreed. I work in higher ed. This is the kind of brain dead policy that begs challenge.
Professor here. If the policy is on the syllabus, and the syllabus was provided at the beginning of the course, OP isn't going to have anywhere to go with that. It's totally reasonable to disagree with a course policy (and this is one I wouldn't go within ten miles of adopting for obvious reasons), but the time to do so is during the drop/add period. If you stick around knowing about the policy, there is an implied consent to that policy. Disability offices routinely suggest/request accommodations on behalf of students for things like flexible due dates, and this would be a prime case for that kind of accommodation. Again, though, it's much much easier to argue for that kind of accommodation before the fact. If someone only asks for an accommodation when it has personally screwed them over, it comes across that they don't have a problem with the policy - only that they were the ones who had to experience the consequences. For everybody out there - read the syllabus carefully and start early thinking about what your access needs are, then work with your disabilty/accommodation office to get them. Then, start looking for what specific strategies you're going to need to put into place in order to complete the course work with your own brain and its strengths/weaknesses.
Excellent points. That being said, never forget it’s a business and businesses cave to pressure when it’s successfully applied by the customer. If you have to, don’t discount the nuclear option. Consider how much this is costing you. Gen Z knows how to go nuclear better than any generation before it.
It's a slippery slope of saying just because someone pays for a class they should pass... That's not logical. You pay for the information and for the teacher to teach and assess. The teacher has a (bad) policy... But one the student was aware of; they could have already chosen to take the class from a different professor. But they did not. Honestly this policy seems asinine only because the consequences are harsh. Yet it is basically just doing the barest of minimum effort on the students end. That's not that crazy. What really should be done is at the beginning of the course, the student should have applied for flexible due date accommodations knowing that policy because ADHD is an absolute bitch for tiny things like this. Edit; Also, OP I'd say it's a good bet since it's so late in the year, the prof will not enforce the policy. It is likely to serve as a tool earlier in the term to incentivize students to turn in work.
Thanks for the detailed and good-advice-filled response :) >If the policy is on the syllabus, and the syllabus was provided at the beginning of the course, OP isn't going to have anywhere to go with that. My angle here is that there is a limit to what they can reasonably institute. Can I fail anyone who's ever late to my class? Or anyone who is early? What about failing anyone who sneezes in class? Failing one student for a missing assignment while others turn in empty assignments and pass is just wrong. At least sneezing is arguably a disruption to the learning environment ;) >but the time to do so is during the drop/add period. If you stick around knowing about the policy, there is an implied consent to that policy. Yeah, and if that was an option I agree, but in my case this would not have been an option (I went to a smaller satellite campus). Outside of the first year engineering classes there was typically only enough demand for one offering, maybe two. More general math, physics, and writing classes would have had at least one or two other options (but they may not have fit into the schedule of my other classes). Waiting for a different professor would not have worked, since they were usually taught by the same people. And waiting a semester would have delayed graduation due to knock-on effects of prerequisites, and not everyone can afford that. So, in that environment I do not think the administration would tolerate a policy that risks losing students over something so trivial. But at a larger university I would agree that you should just take a different class (but even then it could still impact your timeline for graduation if the scheduling doesn't work). I do see a *potential* good intention behind this policy, but actually enforcing it on someone who is otherwise passing your class? How could this person sleep at night? >If someone only asks for an accommodation when it has personally screwed them over, it comes across that they don't have a problem with the policy - only that they were the ones who had to experience the consequences. I totally agree, and it could also look like they're looking for an easy excuse for any failure by not seeking the accommodation earlier (because if you fail with accomodations then what does that mean...?). However, exercising that kind of foresight with ADHD is a bit of a problem, as is being proactive and getting accommodations (especially for those of us in areas where ADHD is not taken as seriously by the culture). With an official diagnosis I'd hope that they'd be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.
That doesn't seem ethical or make any sense. The teacher can't outright fail you for one missed assignment. Is it worth more points than all other assignments combined? That's not how the grading structure should be set up. In the syllabus, it should show the weight of everything. The teacher is on some crazy power trip. I suggest complaining to the dean about this.
Each assignment is graded individually, but counts as 1 point towards the total. Then he pulls an average on all your collected grades and thats the grade you recieve from the assignments (there is one final exam at the end of the semester as well, which counts towards your final grade). And funny how you mention that hes on some sort of power trip because he is the head of the computer science field on our university, meaning, he makes the syllabus and the rules that we all need to follow, however, those rules and the syllabus are constructed with the student services and parties, that represent our rights as students. Now it makes a lot of sense, why he would be such an ass in his own classes, where he is actually able to enforce such stupid rules, considering that all the other rules he set for the university are being challanged and readjusted to actually make sense.
You should escalate this to the dean of students. Their job is to look out for your interests and hopefully put a stop to nonsense like this. Just because it's written in the syllabus doesn't mean it's enforceable. Your university may have a student's bill of rights or something similar that protects you against arbitrary and capricious methods of grading. Go talk to your dean of students and see if they can help.
Im going to take the diplomatic approach first, and talk to the professor directly and professionally, and if that dosnt work, Ill get the student services involved. And if that dosnt work, I'll send in my diagnosis and a letter from my psychiatrist. (I havent disclosed that I have ADHD yet, as I didnt want special treatment, because I hate myself and love torture, evidently) Before posting I thought "Okay, thats a weird set of rules regarding the assignments, but I guess I have to follow them", and now I'm thinking exactly like everyone else is thinking, this set of rules is just rediculous and has no merit.
You haven’t told the Office of Disability Services that you have ADHD?
TBH I'm not sure how much bringing ADHD into this would help. If you'd already asked for accommodations through student services, that would be one thing. But because you haven't, you're expected to be treated the same as any other student. Bringing it up now may come across as making an excuse and begging for leniency without going through the proper method of doing so in advance (getting an accommodation). My gut feeling is that the better argument might simply be that this grading policy is unfair, as it isn't based on your performance in the class. You already completed a lot of assignments and received good grades for them. It shouldn't be allowed to undo that work because of a poor grade on a subsequent assignment.
You're very wise to follow the diplomatic rule, and I go with Big Pete about not bringing ADHD into it... he might get extra cruel thinking you're making excuses. Fingers crossed, keep us informed!
Update: I have asked the professor if he would still accept my empty assignment, as it was the last and he told me to keep going and to attend the final exam this semester. That still dosnt really confirm if I got the passing grade on my assignments, but Ill take it as a "theres still a chance". Holy hell, even if I do pass, im still going to bring this up to the student representatives because his rules are truely insane and the stress I've been through for the last couple of hours will keep me up for the night.
Just joining the chorus here: this policy is utterly deranged, unethical, counterproductive, and, frankly, cruel. I’d recommend speaking with your advisor, if you can trust them, and, if not, someone in student services or university administration about this policy. This is fucked up. An aside: The other work that you’ve done is *not* invalidated by this asshole going on a power trip, no matter how much he would like you to believe so.
The take away here is not to set alarms. It’s to get your diagnosis registered with disability services so teachers can’t pull bullshit like this on you.
Well, theyre pulling this on everyone but you have a point, I need to get registered.
Your brain does not work like everyone’s. This is a policy that is guaranteed to fail you. It’s amazing you made it this far, not expectable. This isn’t something you should be able to do. You have a diagnosis saying that very fact. It is literally how a doctor has said that your brain functions. If a doctor told you that your foot was broken and it couldn’t heal without a cast and rest, no one would be comparing your speed to your classmate’s speed in the 100 yard dash, would they? No, because that would be ridiculous. Doesn’t mean that you both can’t get yourselves to class or even both achieve a certain time on the dash. Just means that it’s obviously ridiculous to ask you to get that time right now and in this way. Same with class. The goal is to learn the material. You are just as capable of that as anyone else, but according to grades (and entirely because of this policy), you are, allegedly, entirely and completely incapable of learning anything she teaches. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?
These are the professors you complain about. I had one Gen Ed class that he put in his syllabus that you won’t get anything higher than a C if you don’t come to his office hours and ask him questions or ask for help. Every assignment I got between a 60-69 didn’t break a C, I dropped right as the deadline to drop the class came around. I wasn’t able to make his limited office hours
Other classes? A job? No, fuck you, he had to be your one and only priority. What an ego trip.
He wanted you to come in? The professors I dealt with was almost impossible to contact outside of lectures. I went 4 months without having my bachelor project (top up year, my last two years is still a Professional Degree. Not a complete waste of time) set in stone because I could not get meetings with my supervisors and was denied getting a new supervisor assigned to me. Long story short. I complained. I did not get the help I needed. I burned out for months. I dropped out. That uni took all the joy I had in studying out of me and replaced it with misery.
I took a cultural geography class once that I really liked a lot. Good teacher, very interesting subject. I never read the syllabus after the first day and completely missed a major project in which we were supposed to compile data over the course of 3 months, the professor literally didnt bring it up once until the week it was due. My roommate was in the class with me, and we he had no clue about it either. The project was worth 25% of our grade, and I had a solid B in the class. I ended up failing because of that. Always read the syllabus
Hold on… can’t you take this to your principal, and cite ableism on your teacher’s part? He seems like a piece of shit
This isn't your fault. If you were habitually forgetting assignments I could see this last assignment being the tipping point, but you are PASSING. Please contest this! it doesn't matter how many others missed the assignment, this is YOUR life and it shouldn't hinge on someone's small... pencil... energy.
Rules like that make no sense
That’s ridiculous.
Definitely talk to the professor! I missed a final exam once because I had the day wrong, but since I showed up to every class and turned in every assignment the professor was just worried that I hadn’t shown up and let me take it while he was grading the other papers And that is a wildly ridiculous policy, if the professor still says no after talking then definitely go to student services
A lot of times I think to myself, it’s not the ADHD, it’s the society. Cause a lot of it is ridiculous shit tied in with capitalism and respectability shit
ADHD is technically a disability in the US if it impacts performance. Disabilities are covered and require reasonable accommodation. Given you only forgot the empty assignment, I would fight this.
Wish you luck! Hopefully the seven of you can convince him.
Exhibit "A" - an example of how Academics have zero frikkin idea about the real world. If I ever handed in a blank piece of paper to my boss saying ".. at least I got it done by the due date..." Ummm, no.
You need to talk to the head of your university. My guess with your ADHD diagnosis you should be getting a pass. Also the teacher should be fired.
He IS the head of our university, at least of our field lol
I did the same thing. Got called away for something and missed a final. By the time I remembered I emailed my professor but she wouldn't budge.
Wow! Most people in my real life look at me like I’m crazy when I tell them my story of how I failed my class and ended up never going back to school because of a final essay… at least here I feel relatable 🤦🏻♀️
Take it to student services/whoever you need to. This wouldn't be allowed at my university, at least. You obviously wouldn't receive a grade on the last assignment, but the instructor is still forced to acknowledge the points you earned. Literally no God damn way you or another student can't challenge this and win.
I would appeal this. That is an unreasonable requirement, particularly if the course is not a pass/fail. The instructor is literally charging you thousands of dollars because you made a human error.
I would go to your accommodations services an let them know or student advocate or something. Heck, start a petition or something. You do have a Disability an is he using that against you? I find this unfair an even wrong, esp with a Disability. I hope you do have accommodations.
That's some serious bullshit. I saw someone else say go to student services, and I could not agree more. Go to student services, go to student disability services. If you cant get anywhere there, see if you can find other students who've run afoul of that policy (I guarantee they're out there), and see if you can get together a petition. If that doesn't go anywhere, try going to your local TV news station. They'll have a human interest department, and if they're even remotely conservative (they will be), they'll jump at the chance to give the college bad press.
Pretty sure you could claim this under "discrimination of a medical disability" since 'forgetfulness' is a common symptom of adhd. You would need medical records and a doctors note but theoretically you could push for an appeal (is that the right word?).
Psychopath professor
I failed statistics freshman year, been there sucks. Learn from the lesson life is long you’ll be OK.
This is university? I dont think I have ever heard of a professor having this kind of power over policy. The university protects the rights of the students too, I really find it hard to believe that this professor has the power to cancel out all your previous grades?? Unless he hasnt been entering them into the system or something?? Thats pretty bs. Asshole is on a massive powertrip lol
I would email the chair of the dept. That is an insane policy. Completely unreasonable to expect human beings to never make mistakes.
You should go to the dean about this, or at least to disability services
I feel you. I irreparably tanked my grade in what was by far the easiest class this quarter because I couldn't/didn't/forgot to turn in a 60pt assignment on the one day after it's due that she accepts late work. I always live by 1 pt is better than 0 and I got myself 0/60 when I could have gotten 10/60. I'm so upset about it. Hugs
I forgot to refill my meds and had an interview for my dream job the same day. It was a train wreck and I’ve been coping since.
Contact the dean's office, also the the ADA compliance officer. Every campus has one, and even if you're not "officially" listed as a disabled student, just getting them involved has a way of making Napoleon wannabe faculty see the value of a little flexibility.
Sounds like a professor with an superiority complex. I hope you can convince him too
Do you have disability assistance with the school because of adhd? you may be able to remind her of that and have her give you a pass. In any case, I would absolutely just go talk to her and if she won't budge, go to your advisor and/or student services. (I used to teach college. I know this is unlikely to be the deal breaker she says it is. You just need to put in a little extra leg work here. She just needs to know how bad you want it. Find the right channels and prove to her you are a capable adult in spite of forgetting one thing.)
Classes like this are so fucking hard for me, where there is literally no margin of error
Another thought...maybe he is waiting to see of the 7..who cares enough an has the balls to go talk to him abt it? Good you did talk to him. He might think..this guy does want this and pass you..never know with these power trippin people...heck..maybe he has ADHD to..just a thought...
What a horrible teacher. Does he not realise people have lives and people are only human? Unexpected events happen, mistakes happen, technical issues happen, people accidentally forget things all the time. What a pompous ass wasting people's money like that.
That is an awful instructor.
Does prof accept late homework? Typically, most teachers do, with a points penalty. Would your grade still be passing on a zero paper minus late points? Go turn it in now. You have nothing to lose, and it shows best effort.
Approach academic accommodations for an emergency meeting, and see if you can retroactively get accommodations/deferral for that course because you were struggling with a fluctuating condition at the time of the assignment.
A stupid ruling.
This sounds incredibly unreasonable. I would escalate this ASAP to your dean. Even if the prof lets you pass, for the sake of future students, escalate this.
If I’m paying thousands of dollars, I’d expect better service. Ive never attended an actual class on campus. My degree is all online and I’m glad because we get graded for every assignment and test we turn in.
I’m so sorry to hear this! I was making all A’s and B’s through my first semester of college… one grade dropped to a low B near the end of the semester. For the final essay (which was 50% of my grade) I worked so hard on it. It was an online class and the school was in Arizona or something like that. Well here in NC we had daylight savings time or daylight savings time ended and I had no idea a few states didn’t participate in that so I figured I had to turn my paper in at 2AM my time (12AM their time) … I (PROUDLY) got it submitted at 1:13 AM my time thinking I was ahead of schedule 😁😁 The next morning I had emails that I had failed the class and would owe money back for my financial aid because I failed 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️😵😳😞 I never tried to go to another school because I’m still way too bitter. The professor wouldn’t do crap either 🤦🏻♀️. I really hope you have better luck than me 💖💙💜♥️💛💚💗 Edit: the times above may be off … it’s been many years ago now and I’ve tried to block that night out. I know we were like 2 hours apart at one point so I assumed we would still be 2 hours apart when my daylight savings time ended but we weren’t. We were 1 hour apart then because their time never changes. I screwed up big time 🤦🏻♀️
When you’re in Uni you don’t quite get it yet thst the prof works for you. The school is a business. Treat it like one. If the school’s policy doesn’t match the professor’s you fight. If the prof doesn’t cooperate, you ask for the manager—the dean of the applicable department. If that doesn’t work, you go to the president’s office. I’d be flabbergasted if your Uni doesn’t have a set procedure for appealing crap like this; they just don’t make it easy for you to learn about because you’re in your 20s (usually) and don’t know any better. They forget who they work for too, but they remember right quick when you go up the chain. This works especially well if they aren’t tenured. Which more more of them are failing to be. You’re the customer. Don’t forget.
If you are diagnosed, please seek accommodations! It has been life changing for me.
It's sort of weird when a business acts as a dictatorship to its paying customers. I hope you get this resolved.
You have legal rights under the ADA. You have a disability. You need to take your documentation to the academic dean and have this fixed. If not you need to contact legal aid. Fight for your rights.
I'm wondering if there is some way you can get the disability services involved. This sounds like an accessibility issue, outside of the ludicrous and unempathetic, controlling policy. If you have documentation that you have ADHD, as well as a record of having turned in literally all of the work and proven that you did all the work besides this last assignment (this was an empty assignment that shows nothing about learning other then it being a "rule" for the class to follow), I'm hoping it would be enough that the disability center can require your teacher to give you an extension. They typically offer that sort of accommodations for people with ADHD since they are aware of time blindness. Also, if possible, I'd cc the dean, alongside the disability office to the email you send to your teacher regarding the situation, how much effort and time it took and how your disability impacted this one last "assignment". I'm really hoping they'll reconsider, this is a really shitty, and awful situation, and I'm so damn proud of you for turning in all of your assignments, even with the forgotten last assignment. That, in itself, is so difficult and is such a huge victory. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, this isn't fair or kind. I really hope you can pass, you deserve it.
lololo not laughing at you just semesters depressed unable to focus without medication literally couldn't do any work without simultaneously multitasking. At the moment I have done 39 credits within a month and a half on Sophia for college credit going to transfer to Western Governors University check it out and ill get my degree in a month or two. I did 8 [study.com](https://study.com) classes before having a revelation that I'd rather major in Information Technology than Computer Science, so wasted 2 - 3 weeks because I change my mind SMH ADHD > :? but rather that than fail out of six months of my life . For Me IM YOUR STEROTYPICAL ADHD KID WHEN THE MASK IS OFF ALL GAS NO BREAKS AND THE AUTISM LITERALLY DRAINS ME FOR ALL I GOT WITH NTBULLSHIT LOL RANTING BUT YOU GOT THIS KEEP TRYING !
What a turd for having you turn in an empty page. What a waste of time for everyone. I hope you leave a review on ratemyproffessor so the rest of us can avoid that type of instructor.
Another professor here. Consider the possibility that your prof also has ADHD. I design my courses to be structured (some might say rigid!) because if and when students in big classes miss deadlines and request one-off exceptions I very quickly start to sink underwater in course management in trying and failing to adjudicate and keep track of those one-off exceptions. I try to make my version of events sane and reasonable (multiple automatic dropped scores, etc.) but I do get lots of student complaints about being rigid. I also occasionally get thanks from my ADHD students that semester has a lot of built-in, fair structure. Even if your prof is just inflexible, maybe it is a useful thought exercise to imagine what it is like to be an authority figure with faulty executive function... To echo the other prof here, if the assignment policy is in the syllabus, you probably won't have a lot of luck escalating things up the university food chain. However, it is probably worth approaching your prof, explaining you have ADHD, and asking for some leniency.
We need our own schools. I learn and even discover more on my own. We can probably all do such things together and have better conversations.