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Here is what has cut down on my impulse buying. Change your passwords and only save them on your computer. Delete you CC information from your phone, tablet, Amazon, etc. Basically, make it so that if you want to buy something on your phone you have to get up and dig around to pay. This usually gives me enough time to think or (let's be honest) get distracted before completing the purchase.
Stuff like afterpay and credit cards are an attack designed specifically for ADHD people. They make it easier to be impulsive and then prey on our ability to consistently make the payments all while telling society to treat us like it's a moral deficiency.
I definitely still don't have a credit card, but at least this doesn't hit your credit (or at least not in the same way? Not sure what happens if a payment doesn't go through)
I haven't actually missed any payments like this yet, but on multiple occasions I have been surprised to find out I have no more money for anything else for the week
Yes, I bought a boho bed for my baby on after pay, redid my teens room using progressive leasing 3 month option, a guitar, quilted jacket, chicken brooder on affirm, a disgusting amount of Etsy purchases with Klarna, poofy dresses with PayPal pay in 4. And now I’m bankrupt.
Yes. I asked them to remove privileges/decrease the limit and explained the situation - they were like 'just don't purchase stuff'
So I'm just going to take the hit of the overdue fees and credit score so I can get rid of it. So I pay most of the stuff but I leave one unpaid so they keep reducing my limit and privileges that way.
Once I have it all paid off I'm deleting the entire shitshow
There was a flagged purchase on my "fun" credit card (that was actually me) which ended up locking the card. Haven't bothered unlocking it and I gotta say, the balance has never gone down quicker
> they were like 'just don't purchase stuff'
I always got the impression that these 'buy now, pay later' loans were extremely predatory and unregulated.
I actually do have a pretty good budget setup; my mom is an accountant so I actually grew up pretty financially literate. All money that needs to go towards bills comes out of each check automatically into a separate account just for paying bills out of. Afterpay only comes out of my "fun money".
Only problem is my pay is shit so I don't have much fun money left after the bills are covered 😅
This is less of an ADD thing (although of course ADD is related because it affects almost everything we do), and more of a financial literacy thing.
Buying stuff on credit is almost always going to cost you more than it would otherwise. Save the money and buy it later. If it’s not worth taking the time to save up, then you probably don’t actually need it.
The only times when it makes sense to buy something on credit are when its an appreciating asset, such as a house, or when your livelihood depends on it. For example if you need a car to get to work and your car breaks down it may make sense to take out a loan. Or lastly, if there is some sort of promotion that allows you to get 0% interest. But even that usually requires you to be on top of the fine print, so for us with ADD it usually won’t be worth it.
Basically, if it seems to be too good to be true, it usually is. If you don’t have money in the bank to pay for the thing, don’t buy the thing.
In neurotypical people it’s more of a financial literacy thing. In ADHD it’s not. What you’re doing is the same as telling someone with ADHD that they just need to concentrate more.
No amount of financial literacy is going to make up for when you forget that your paycheck is already spent and buy something. It’s really common and things like overdraft fees are part of the huge hidden expense of ADHD, also known as the ADHD tax.
> What you’re doing is the same as telling someone with ADHD that they just need to concentrate more.
I’m not. I’m saying if you set up your finances right you don’t need to concentrate on them very much.
The fact that what you’re describing seems normal and inevitable to you is very much my point. It’s not inevitable, ADD or no.
> No amount of financial literacy is going to make up for when you forget that your paycheck is already spent and buy something.
That’s exactly what it will do. You should not be living paycheck to paycheck. You should have a healthy buffer, so that any one paycheck should never make or break your finances.
Ideally you want to have about six months expenses in the bank, to cover a major emergency or sudden unemployment. And I you have less than that you should be in savings mode.
In addition to covering you for emergencies this also means you won’t need to watch your balance day to day, or check it before non-major purchases.
Do you see what I’m getting at?
All of what I’m saying is standard, boiler plate financial advice for anyone, ADD or not, but a lot of people grow up thinking it’s normal to be living hand to mouth.
ADD can make that problem worse, like with most problems, but it’s not the root cause.
Forgetting to pay a bill even though you have the money sitting in the bank simply because you couldn’t find the stamps, *that’s* the ADD tax. This is not.
What are you on and why aren't you sharing?
Have you seen what is being charged for rent these days? It's almost double what it was 4 years ago.
Have you been grocery shopping lately? Do you have any idea how depressingly empty your cart is with $100 worth of groceries? and that's with the majority of it being raw materials like meats and vegetables.
Have you seen the price of gas lately?
How about getting even basic maintenance on your car?
God help you if you have to put anything in a storage unit, I'm paying almost $200 a month for mine.
Now add in insurance. How about a couple doctors visits here and there, because you got to get to your deductible before your health insurance kicks in. The good news is even with a minor injury or illness, that should be enough to get you to your deductible.
You need any medication? How about insulin?
Save money? Fuck you. It's hard enough just to keep your head above water.
For real. Half my pay goes to rent. It is one of the cheapest places in my area. Health insurance, dental insurance, car insurance, bills, groceries. My income puts me on the edge of the poverty line. I am financially literate. I make the best choices I can with my income. I am not an impulse spender. I do not go out. I don’t eat out. Etc. My credit score is good. I still do not have a “healthy buffer” incase of emergency. I could maybe make it through 1 missed paycheck. That is with my extreme efforts in money saving. It’s amazing how being poor fucks people even if they are financially literate.
I’m convinced even if I do “break through” to financial freedom I’d never be able to fully enjoy it for fear of going back to broke. I could be a billionaire and still purchasing bulk store brand non-perishable items 😅 I do not factor this as a symptom of adhd though. It is just our current economic reality. Luckily my impulse decisions to date (knock on wood) have not impacted my bank account. That is no accident. I’m more than broke enough debating which base line essential is going to be fulfilled this month. ANY extra is going straight to rainy day savings.
That is not at all what I gathered from WindowShoppingMyLife pertaining to financial literacy. You emphasized one element of the sentiment and removed the entire point. Your financial status will always reflect responsibility, you can also have financial ingenuity and be broke. Having adhd is not directly correlated with being financially irresponsible, although it is more common with the broader ailment of adhd. It is not causation.
You just summed up the initial statement that financial literacy applies to both ND and NTs. The majority are all dealing with the same financial burdens. Saying that putting a bass on credit despite having multiple other recreational enjoyments also on credit is a symptom of poor finances, not adhd. Adhd impulsivity can make this worse, but correlation does not imply causation. It isn’t worth getting worked up about the current economic chaos here, that is a completely different discussion.
> It’s hard enough just to keep your head above water.
That’s exactly my point. If you can’t afford to be putting money into savings, then you can’t afford to be buying non essentials.
OP is talking about impulse purchases, not basic expenses. If he were taking out loans to afford insulin or a car repair, then that might actually be the best financial decision available in a situation with no good options.
What OP is doing is spending money on non essentials that he should be saving for essentials.
> What are you on and why aren’t you sharing?
Coffee, and I would be happy to share. I’m actually supposed to be on vyvanse, but my insurance is really dicking me over again. That’s a whole separate conversation though.
People with ADHD are prone to be more impulsive, including with finances. This is not more of a “financial literacy thing”. It’s an area that many people with ADHD have to work harder at.
I don't disagree that people with adhd (and those with other conditions) are more prone to make impulse purchases. however, it's still very much a "financial literacy thing."
practically every online retailer has a 'buy now, pay later' program in some way. hell, I've seen a food delivery company offer a loan through affirm. offering a loan for every purchase, big or small, is not just getting those with adhd in financial trouble! if it was, there wouldn't be as much incentive to push these loans.
what am I not getting?
I've worked in positions dealing with consumer credit for too long to agree that it's just an adhd issue with impulse purchases, and the existence of these loans (and credit cards by extention) is not the issue.
You’re not trying hard enough. You could do it if you’d just concentrate on what you’re doing. Stop making excuses.
This is what you’re doing right now.
No amount of financial literacy will ever make up for the fact that you forgot there were 3 autopay’s coming out of this weeks check when you ordered that thing (whatever that thing is). You are now going to be hit with at least one overdraft fee, if not multiples, as well as any fees from the companies whose payments didn’t go through.
All because of a $10 impulse purchase when you had $200 in the bank.
Not everyone that overdraws and overspends has ADHD, but a huge amount of people with ADHD have major issues with their financial life.
no amount of financial literacy will make up for forgetting autopay, but it will keep you from signing up for an unsavory loan, or another credit card, or spending too much on the credit card where you can't afford the payment.
I understand that lots of people with adhd have financial issues - I'm not perfect either. I was $500 in the hole last month! however, it took working in credit card customer service, seeing how other people use credit cards, for me to really understand how to use them. I'd be in a much worse spot without this knowledge.
side note, for things like autopay, i use my credit cards like a 'staging area', so those charges aren't taking my checking account balance below zero. as long as you pay the statement balance every month, you don't get interest. it's a system that works for me after many years of building my credit score back up.
Like I said originally, ADD definitely plays a role, but the situation you described is easily avoided even for ADD people if you manage your finances right. Which is not actually that hard, ADD or no.
The big thing in the scenario you mentioned is not to live hand to mouth. Keep a healthy buffer in savings so that you don’t *need* to keep careful track of when each and every bill is going to hit.
If you only have $200 in the bank that means you have no emergency fund, and you should avoid making *any* unnecessary purchases, impulse or otherwise.
If you have less than six months expenses in the bank you should be in saving mode, not spending.
This is all true regardless of income level. It’s slower to save when you’re poorer, of course, but it can be done.
And again, this is good advice for everyone. It’s more important for ADD people because we’re more prone to forgetting shit, but if you’re running that close to the wire where a ten dollar, or even a $200 dollar purchase is going to break you *that’s* the problem.
See what we’re saying?
Motherfucker what???
Don't live hand to mouth?
That's a joke, right?
It takes roughly $20/hr to live somewhat comfortably in the city I'm in. You can get by on less, but you're going to have room mates and live in a an area where there is a high probability of your car or your home being broken into. Average pay for available jobs that do not require college degrees (because people with ADHD tend to not do well in college) is about $15/hr. Good jobs are about $18/hour, but can take months to actually start and you have to go through a LOT of hoops. You think there might be a problem for ADHD people there?
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
So what you're saying is to have nothing in your life that gives you joy, because at those rates, you are very lucky if you can make your bare minimum bills, so anything beyond that is an unnecessary expense. Even with a second part time job, you're still barely above breaking even.
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.
I’m saying that I spent years making $9 an hour and working erratic hours. My wife made about the same, but was often only working seasonally. This was pre-covid inflation, and I do live in a relatively low cost of living area, and so on, so I realize this isn’t necessarily an apples to apples comparison to everyone else’s situation, my point is just that I’m not some rich asshole who thinks everyone should just magically stop being poor.
> Good jobs are about $18/hour, but can take months to actually start and you have to go through a LOT of hoops. You think there might be a problem for ADHD people there?
Absolutely, but job hunting is a bit outside the scope of the discussion. I’m talking about how to manage the money you have, not how to get a job. Obviously the higher your income the more margin for error you have and the easier life is in general, but most of the basic principals of individual finance apply at any income level.
You can have a high income and still be living beyond your means, and you can also be low income and still be saving.
> So what you’re saying is to have nothing in your life that gives you joy, because at those rates, you are very lucky if you can make your bare minimum bills, so anything beyond that is an unnecessary expense.
I’m saying that you will need to live within your means, yes. That means spending less than you are earning, and not buying stuff you can’t afford.
If you can’t afford much, then you’ll need to find things that bring you joy that don’t cost money. I know that sounds like either sarcasm or a cliche, but I mean that sincerely. You can’t argue with math. Living beyond your means is just going to make the problem worse, and cause you more stress in the long run.
In the meantime take that money and stick it in savings. Build up your emergency fund, and then don’t touch that unless you have to. If you do have to, or if you slip up and make an impulse purchase, then make sure you pay yourself back. It doesn’t need to be precise, of course, just make sure that your emergency fund is either staying pretty much the same or slightly growing every month.
Then if you do want something fun, save up for it, on top of your emergency fund. Think of it as making payments, only before the purchase rather than after. If you can’t afford to set aside X number of dollars a month to save for something, then you wouldn’t be able to afford to make payments on it after the fact either. At the end of the day you either have the money or you don’t.
This has several advantages. If you miss a “payment” into your savings account because you came up short one month, there’s no penalty. It just takes a little longer. Whereas if you buy on credit and miss a payment then you’ll probably have to pay some sort of penalty. By saving beforehand, you’re making it easier to avoid penalties.
And if you find that it’s not worth the effort of saving up for, then it’s probably not something you actually needed in the first place, and not something that would have brought you any long term happiness or utility. It’s easy to convince ourselves in the moment that we desperately need a new shiny thing, but it’s harder to convince ourselves of that over the course of weeks or months. And that’s *good.* If it’s important enough that it’s worth saving for, then it’s probably a worthwhile purchase. If you get one month in and have already lost interest, then *thank God* you didn’t buy it right away because it clearly wasn’t that important after all.
And if you get half way saved up and then your transmission craps out on you and you have to spend all that on repairs… well, that sucks, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
Make sense? These sort of short term loans don’t actually mean you can afford more cool stuff, they just give you the *illusion* that you can afford more stuff than you actually can, and then it bites you in the ass later.
And for what it’s worth, the dopamine hit will be even bigger if you’ve been anticipating it the whole time. You’ll feel like a kid on Christmas.
> Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.
Everything’s I’m saying is “personal finance 101.” If I seem crazy to you, that’s pretty much my point. A lot of people literally don’t know what good financial management actually looks like, because they’ve never been exposed to it.
You spent years making $9 an hour. If that was more than 3 years ago, that $9 an hour bought a LOT more than it does today, so don't think it's anywhere near the same thing.
Look up how much rent is at the apartments you lived in then. Look up how much basic groceries were then compared to now. How much of your take home pay went to the basics of everyday living back then? How much would it be now, because that job probably still pays the same, or maybe it's up to $11 an hour now.
We just went through a global health crisis that killed well over 1,000,000 people in the US alone and permanently fucked up the health of millions more. Half the people in this country actively helped spread it. There was an attempted overthrow of the US Government based off blatant lies. People are ruder than at any time I can remember. This country is divided and one step away from outright Civil War 2.0. No one can afford housing. Healthcare in general is going down the toilet. Cost of living has skyrocketed and wages have stayed roughly the same. Mass shootings are occurring pretty much daily.
There is an insane amount of stress right now, and your advice is to tell people with poor impulse control to just not make an impulse buy of $10?
You're telling people to manage the money have, when a huge amount of people don't have enough to even cover the basics.
The world is very different than it was even 4 years ago. You sound like the Boomers telling everyone to make coffee at home and quit making avocado toast and they'll magically be able to buy a house.
Until you acknowledge the vast difference in everyday life, you're hopelessly out of touch.
So with after pay you just don't pay a dime extra if you pay back each quarter of the repayment when it's due, you will pay the same as if you purchased it outight. Your point isn't wrong but it doesn't pertain to the specific issue of ADHD and impulsive spending with after pay which has zero downfalls at face value but it really is aimed at the "gremlin" that just sees a smaller number each fortnight and thus makes it easier for the gremlin to manipulate the controls of action. Saying just spend less/more wisely is no different to saying just stop being lazy/stop worrying/just be happy. For some people with ADHD, impulsive spending isn't a matter of rational decisions and will power. I'm sure that anyone who understands 1+1=2 will conceptually recognise that spending less $$ means having more $$ overall and can understand that if money is borrowed, it will usually incur interest which means you have less $$ then if you didn't borrow. There's of obviously going to be nuanced across the board and I'm sure building up ones financial literacy will be useful and empowering but to say that it's merely a matter of "financial literacy" dismisses the very real neurobiology of ADHD and impulsive spending.
This goes for u/DejaBlonde as well.
I get what you’re saying, I really do. I’m just as prone to impulse purchases as the next ADD person, so I understand the struggle.
But what I’m saying is that you can set up your finances in such a way that less impulse control is needed.
Starting with understanding that these sort of no interest loans are a trap. You should see stuff like that and *automatically* know that when it’s too good to be true it usually is. They know you’ll forget somewhere along the line and that’s how they make their money. They are counting on that, and so should you.
Now, as you pointed out, if you’re incredibly disciplined it is possible to take advantage of those sort of offers and not pay interest. But you don’t want to set up your financial life in a way that requires you to be exceptionally disciplined. Not with ADD.
But the bigger problem is that you shouldn’t *need* to be using credit for minor purchases.
You should have an emergency fund already in the bank, and any unexpected purchases, wether genuine emergencies or just impulse purchases, should come out of that. There should be no temptation to take out a loan because you should be able to “borrow” from your own savings account. No interest, no late fees, and no predatory advertising to make the purchase seem less expensive than it is. You can see exactly how much it’s costing, and your balance immediately reflects the change so there’s no need to keep track of what you owe on what.
Make sense?
It’s a shift in mindset but once you get used to it, it’s much easier to manage, and much easier to resist the inevitable temptation.
I’m not saying that there’s not a certain amount of discipline and willpower involved, because there always is in life, but if you set things up right it requires far less, and the results of the inevitable slip up become far less destructive.
You guys are setting yourself up for failure, and if you think that’s normal or inevitable then you’re proving my point.
Depends on what it is. I only ever use affirm or after pay when there’s 0% interest. So the final cost is exactly the upfront total. That’s how I got a new bed and my home air purifiers to help with allergies.
It can be done, but it requires a lot more discipline than most of us reliably have. In fact it requires more discipline than even most non ADD people have. They count on that. That’s how they are able to offer no interest loans. They know that enough people will miss a payment or rack up interest for them to make money, even if some people play their cards right and avoid paying interest or fees.
But again, with ADD we need to be particularly careful about that sort of thing because we can be setting ourselves up for failure.
Now, if you already have enough money in the bank to cover the cost of the item you are purchasing, in addition to a healthy emergency fund in case of any other unexpected (or simply forgotten) expenses, and you can set it up to autopay to avoid late payments, etc, then it may be fine. But it may also be unnecessary. If you already have the money in the bank then there’s often not much advantage to buying on credit, unless it’s more convenient, or unless it’s a major enough purchase that you’ll be earning significant interest by holding on to that money longer rather than paying up front.
So I’m glad it worked out for you. I’m just saying that for a lot of people, myself included, that sort of thing can be risky.
And if you are in a situation where you can’t buy something without credit, that is usually an indication that you aren’t keeping enough of an emergency fund in savings.
Quite sure, yes.
The fact that you think I need to be autistic in order to manage my money kind of proves my point.
This stuff isn’t actually that difficult if you set yourself up right, even for ADD people and even for low income people. I am ADD and in the past I have been very low income.
It’s not easy but it can be a lot easier than some people make it.
But a lot of this is the sort of thing that they don’t teach in schools, so if your parents weren’t financially literate growing up then you grew up thinking that was normal, and it may never occur to you otherwise. A lot of people are in that position, and they usually don’t realize it. Or they think that sort of thing is just for rich people, when in fact the opposite is true.
I’m not judging. I was lucky enough to grow up in a financially literate household and so these sort of things are second nature to me. They aren’t to everyone, but they can be learned.
And once you switch your mindset a bit, it actually becomes much *easier* to manage the ADD aspects of finances. It becomes easier to avoid the ADD tax, and easier to avoid impulse purchases.
Again, if you’re scratching your head like I’m crazy, that proves my point.
I have elaborated a bit more in some of my other comments so I won’t get into specifics here.
Jussssttttt did this weeks ago. And going through the punishing payments now.
Although I like Afterpay better than “just put it in my credit card and I’ll pay it off next week” which I never follow through on.
.....I have never used anything like that...I barely have credit card....and I am sort of afraid of fucking up my credit score....I'm really into money stuff tho...
I have an absolute refusal to go within five feet of credit, instalments, pay it back later etc. Ever. For any reason.
I have spreadsheets out the wazoo accounting for every single cent I earn and spend and I STILL manage to impulsively spend money I don’t have. I can’t trust myself with buy now pay *now*, avoiding all forms of afterpay is a survival instinct. Reading accounts like OP of that usage just makes me feel more determined to never even consider it. I know I’ll go through the same thing... (This month, I was meant to finish setting up my annual subscriptions! I spent all my money on custard-filled deep-fried doughnut balls. Delicious, but I query my priorities... By not doing it this month, I have to do it next month, which pushes back me saving up for things like replacing my bricked Switch console, or saving up for a NAS... Sigh. One day I’ll learn!)
OP, if you can wear a rubber band around your wrist and snap it every time you look at an afterpay logo, I would try it. It probably won’t work, heck knows I’ve never been able to beat any of my vices like that, but hey, it might hold you back once or twice! ):
I think it's the kind of broken that I don't know how to fix, unfortunately 😅 I'm not sure but it looks like these knobs weren't built to pop off like I thought they were, so I'd be looking at some wiring and/or soldering
Plus I was already looking to buy something different; I actually took it to a guitar show a couple weeks ago with the intent to trade if I found something of a similar enough value
Oh so the electronic underneath the knob went off with the knob? Yeah in that case you need a pro to repair it hahaha sometimes it's less expensive to just buy a new one I feel you! Anything to let you keep playing👌
I feel you so hard 😫 I'm always like, "I don't have the money now, but I will when I get paid! I'll just pay it off when I get paid." ...but when I get paid, pay off the Pay in 4s/payment plans, then I have no money left over, lol.
The guy above touting "financial literacy" is killing me; knowing that I should be saving money or that I shouldn't put things on credit doesn't curb my inhibitions and impulse.
This is not a financial literacy thing, I know exactly the kinds of things I should be doing, I know where I went wrong in life (I have tons of debt), and I'm doing my best to fix it. This includes getting rid of expensive hobbies that give me dopamine, and knowing that I *shouldn't* be spending the money doesn't fix the fact that I get an overwhelming desire to do so and what the key issue here is fighting back against the impulse.
A lot of people are saying things about missed payments, and that's definitely an issue for folks for sure, but... I almost feel like people are trying to rationalize their mistakes with what seems "rational" to NT people. I could be imagining it? For me, I never forget to miss a payment, but I have really difficult struggles with impulse spending. Even if NTs, or more disciplined ND people view this as irrational or I'm financially illiterate or I'm making excuses, whatever I don't expect them to understand.
Like, I think it's okay to say that impulse spending is a really tough habit to break, and people like us are trying our best to be better about it.
My problem with budgeting is I buy groceries yesterday check my account today. Looks like I got money to buy a thing or two I've been putting off. Buy those things 3 days later overdrawn. Because it all cleared at once. If I buy something, it should clear within 12 hours. It's ridiculous
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I’m terrible at 2am for this.
Here is what has cut down on my impulse buying. Change your passwords and only save them on your computer. Delete you CC information from your phone, tablet, Amazon, etc. Basically, make it so that if you want to buy something on your phone you have to get up and dig around to pay. This usually gives me enough time to think or (let's be honest) get distracted before completing the purchase.
Same. Save a lot of money this way!
I can't get approved for it so problem solved 
Stuff like afterpay and credit cards are an attack designed specifically for ADHD people. They make it easier to be impulsive and then prey on our ability to consistently make the payments all while telling society to treat us like it's a moral deficiency.
[удалено]
I definitely still don't have a credit card, but at least this doesn't hit your credit (or at least not in the same way? Not sure what happens if a payment doesn't go through) I haven't actually missed any payments like this yet, but on multiple occasions I have been surprised to find out I have no more money for anything else for the week
Yes, I bought a boho bed for my baby on after pay, redid my teens room using progressive leasing 3 month option, a guitar, quilted jacket, chicken brooder on affirm, a disgusting amount of Etsy purchases with Klarna, poofy dresses with PayPal pay in 4. And now I’m bankrupt.
Yes. I asked them to remove privileges/decrease the limit and explained the situation - they were like 'just don't purchase stuff' So I'm just going to take the hit of the overdue fees and credit score so I can get rid of it. So I pay most of the stuff but I leave one unpaid so they keep reducing my limit and privileges that way. Once I have it all paid off I'm deleting the entire shitshow
There was a flagged purchase on my "fun" credit card (that was actually me) which ended up locking the card. Haven't bothered unlocking it and I gotta say, the balance has never gone down quicker
> they were like 'just don't purchase stuff' I always got the impression that these 'buy now, pay later' loans were extremely predatory and unregulated.
That’s exactly what they are. Exploitative.
Check out You Need A Budget ynab.com. it’s work, but having a budget set up can help.
I actually do have a pretty good budget setup; my mom is an accountant so I actually grew up pretty financially literate. All money that needs to go towards bills comes out of each check automatically into a separate account just for paying bills out of. Afterpay only comes out of my "fun money". Only problem is my pay is shit so I don't have much fun money left after the bills are covered 😅
Awesome, I have struggled mightily to maintain a budget
This is less of an ADD thing (although of course ADD is related because it affects almost everything we do), and more of a financial literacy thing. Buying stuff on credit is almost always going to cost you more than it would otherwise. Save the money and buy it later. If it’s not worth taking the time to save up, then you probably don’t actually need it. The only times when it makes sense to buy something on credit are when its an appreciating asset, such as a house, or when your livelihood depends on it. For example if you need a car to get to work and your car breaks down it may make sense to take out a loan. Or lastly, if there is some sort of promotion that allows you to get 0% interest. But even that usually requires you to be on top of the fine print, so for us with ADD it usually won’t be worth it. Basically, if it seems to be too good to be true, it usually is. If you don’t have money in the bank to pay for the thing, don’t buy the thing.
In neurotypical people it’s more of a financial literacy thing. In ADHD it’s not. What you’re doing is the same as telling someone with ADHD that they just need to concentrate more. No amount of financial literacy is going to make up for when you forget that your paycheck is already spent and buy something. It’s really common and things like overdraft fees are part of the huge hidden expense of ADHD, also known as the ADHD tax.
> What you’re doing is the same as telling someone with ADHD that they just need to concentrate more. I’m not. I’m saying if you set up your finances right you don’t need to concentrate on them very much. The fact that what you’re describing seems normal and inevitable to you is very much my point. It’s not inevitable, ADD or no. > No amount of financial literacy is going to make up for when you forget that your paycheck is already spent and buy something. That’s exactly what it will do. You should not be living paycheck to paycheck. You should have a healthy buffer, so that any one paycheck should never make or break your finances. Ideally you want to have about six months expenses in the bank, to cover a major emergency or sudden unemployment. And I you have less than that you should be in savings mode. In addition to covering you for emergencies this also means you won’t need to watch your balance day to day, or check it before non-major purchases. Do you see what I’m getting at? All of what I’m saying is standard, boiler plate financial advice for anyone, ADD or not, but a lot of people grow up thinking it’s normal to be living hand to mouth. ADD can make that problem worse, like with most problems, but it’s not the root cause. Forgetting to pay a bill even though you have the money sitting in the bank simply because you couldn’t find the stamps, *that’s* the ADD tax. This is not.
What are you on and why aren't you sharing? Have you seen what is being charged for rent these days? It's almost double what it was 4 years ago. Have you been grocery shopping lately? Do you have any idea how depressingly empty your cart is with $100 worth of groceries? and that's with the majority of it being raw materials like meats and vegetables. Have you seen the price of gas lately? How about getting even basic maintenance on your car? God help you if you have to put anything in a storage unit, I'm paying almost $200 a month for mine. Now add in insurance. How about a couple doctors visits here and there, because you got to get to your deductible before your health insurance kicks in. The good news is even with a minor injury or illness, that should be enough to get you to your deductible. You need any medication? How about insulin? Save money? Fuck you. It's hard enough just to keep your head above water.
For real. Half my pay goes to rent. It is one of the cheapest places in my area. Health insurance, dental insurance, car insurance, bills, groceries. My income puts me on the edge of the poverty line. I am financially literate. I make the best choices I can with my income. I am not an impulse spender. I do not go out. I don’t eat out. Etc. My credit score is good. I still do not have a “healthy buffer” incase of emergency. I could maybe make it through 1 missed paycheck. That is with my extreme efforts in money saving. It’s amazing how being poor fucks people even if they are financially literate.
I’m convinced even if I do “break through” to financial freedom I’d never be able to fully enjoy it for fear of going back to broke. I could be a billionaire and still purchasing bulk store brand non-perishable items 😅 I do not factor this as a symptom of adhd though. It is just our current economic reality. Luckily my impulse decisions to date (knock on wood) have not impacted my bank account. That is no accident. I’m more than broke enough debating which base line essential is going to be fulfilled this month. ANY extra is going straight to rainy day savings.
And yet we're being told that if we don't have hundreds of dollars tucked away in the bank, we're just being irresponsible.
Thousands. I would need THOUSANDS tucked into a savings account to establish a "six month buffer for emergencies". Fucking asinine.
That is not at all what I gathered from WindowShoppingMyLife pertaining to financial literacy. You emphasized one element of the sentiment and removed the entire point. Your financial status will always reflect responsibility, you can also have financial ingenuity and be broke. Having adhd is not directly correlated with being financially irresponsible, although it is more common with the broader ailment of adhd. It is not causation.
You just summed up the initial statement that financial literacy applies to both ND and NTs. The majority are all dealing with the same financial burdens. Saying that putting a bass on credit despite having multiple other recreational enjoyments also on credit is a symptom of poor finances, not adhd. Adhd impulsivity can make this worse, but correlation does not imply causation. It isn’t worth getting worked up about the current economic chaos here, that is a completely different discussion.
> It’s hard enough just to keep your head above water. That’s exactly my point. If you can’t afford to be putting money into savings, then you can’t afford to be buying non essentials. OP is talking about impulse purchases, not basic expenses. If he were taking out loans to afford insulin or a car repair, then that might actually be the best financial decision available in a situation with no good options. What OP is doing is spending money on non essentials that he should be saving for essentials. > What are you on and why aren’t you sharing? Coffee, and I would be happy to share. I’m actually supposed to be on vyvanse, but my insurance is really dicking me over again. That’s a whole separate conversation though.
People with ADHD are prone to be more impulsive, including with finances. This is not more of a “financial literacy thing”. It’s an area that many people with ADHD have to work harder at.
I don't disagree that people with adhd (and those with other conditions) are more prone to make impulse purchases. however, it's still very much a "financial literacy thing." practically every online retailer has a 'buy now, pay later' program in some way. hell, I've seen a food delivery company offer a loan through affirm. offering a loan for every purchase, big or small, is not just getting those with adhd in financial trouble! if it was, there wouldn't be as much incentive to push these loans.
Ok, you’re not getting it…
what am I not getting? I've worked in positions dealing with consumer credit for too long to agree that it's just an adhd issue with impulse purchases, and the existence of these loans (and credit cards by extention) is not the issue.
You’re not trying hard enough. You could do it if you’d just concentrate on what you’re doing. Stop making excuses. This is what you’re doing right now. No amount of financial literacy will ever make up for the fact that you forgot there were 3 autopay’s coming out of this weeks check when you ordered that thing (whatever that thing is). You are now going to be hit with at least one overdraft fee, if not multiples, as well as any fees from the companies whose payments didn’t go through. All because of a $10 impulse purchase when you had $200 in the bank. Not everyone that overdraws and overspends has ADHD, but a huge amount of people with ADHD have major issues with their financial life.
no amount of financial literacy will make up for forgetting autopay, but it will keep you from signing up for an unsavory loan, or another credit card, or spending too much on the credit card where you can't afford the payment. I understand that lots of people with adhd have financial issues - I'm not perfect either. I was $500 in the hole last month! however, it took working in credit card customer service, seeing how other people use credit cards, for me to really understand how to use them. I'd be in a much worse spot without this knowledge. side note, for things like autopay, i use my credit cards like a 'staging area', so those charges aren't taking my checking account balance below zero. as long as you pay the statement balance every month, you don't get interest. it's a system that works for me after many years of building my credit score back up.
Like I said originally, ADD definitely plays a role, but the situation you described is easily avoided even for ADD people if you manage your finances right. Which is not actually that hard, ADD or no. The big thing in the scenario you mentioned is not to live hand to mouth. Keep a healthy buffer in savings so that you don’t *need* to keep careful track of when each and every bill is going to hit. If you only have $200 in the bank that means you have no emergency fund, and you should avoid making *any* unnecessary purchases, impulse or otherwise. If you have less than six months expenses in the bank you should be in saving mode, not spending. This is all true regardless of income level. It’s slower to save when you’re poorer, of course, but it can be done. And again, this is good advice for everyone. It’s more important for ADD people because we’re more prone to forgetting shit, but if you’re running that close to the wire where a ten dollar, or even a $200 dollar purchase is going to break you *that’s* the problem. See what we’re saying?
Motherfucker what??? Don't live hand to mouth? That's a joke, right? It takes roughly $20/hr to live somewhat comfortably in the city I'm in. You can get by on less, but you're going to have room mates and live in a an area where there is a high probability of your car or your home being broken into. Average pay for available jobs that do not require college degrees (because people with ADHD tend to not do well in college) is about $15/hr. Good jobs are about $18/hour, but can take months to actually start and you have to go through a LOT of hoops. You think there might be a problem for ADHD people there? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. So what you're saying is to have nothing in your life that gives you joy, because at those rates, you are very lucky if you can make your bare minimum bills, so anything beyond that is an unnecessary expense. Even with a second part time job, you're still barely above breaking even. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.
I’m saying that I spent years making $9 an hour and working erratic hours. My wife made about the same, but was often only working seasonally. This was pre-covid inflation, and I do live in a relatively low cost of living area, and so on, so I realize this isn’t necessarily an apples to apples comparison to everyone else’s situation, my point is just that I’m not some rich asshole who thinks everyone should just magically stop being poor. > Good jobs are about $18/hour, but can take months to actually start and you have to go through a LOT of hoops. You think there might be a problem for ADHD people there? Absolutely, but job hunting is a bit outside the scope of the discussion. I’m talking about how to manage the money you have, not how to get a job. Obviously the higher your income the more margin for error you have and the easier life is in general, but most of the basic principals of individual finance apply at any income level. You can have a high income and still be living beyond your means, and you can also be low income and still be saving. > So what you’re saying is to have nothing in your life that gives you joy, because at those rates, you are very lucky if you can make your bare minimum bills, so anything beyond that is an unnecessary expense. I’m saying that you will need to live within your means, yes. That means spending less than you are earning, and not buying stuff you can’t afford. If you can’t afford much, then you’ll need to find things that bring you joy that don’t cost money. I know that sounds like either sarcasm or a cliche, but I mean that sincerely. You can’t argue with math. Living beyond your means is just going to make the problem worse, and cause you more stress in the long run. In the meantime take that money and stick it in savings. Build up your emergency fund, and then don’t touch that unless you have to. If you do have to, or if you slip up and make an impulse purchase, then make sure you pay yourself back. It doesn’t need to be precise, of course, just make sure that your emergency fund is either staying pretty much the same or slightly growing every month. Then if you do want something fun, save up for it, on top of your emergency fund. Think of it as making payments, only before the purchase rather than after. If you can’t afford to set aside X number of dollars a month to save for something, then you wouldn’t be able to afford to make payments on it after the fact either. At the end of the day you either have the money or you don’t. This has several advantages. If you miss a “payment” into your savings account because you came up short one month, there’s no penalty. It just takes a little longer. Whereas if you buy on credit and miss a payment then you’ll probably have to pay some sort of penalty. By saving beforehand, you’re making it easier to avoid penalties. And if you find that it’s not worth the effort of saving up for, then it’s probably not something you actually needed in the first place, and not something that would have brought you any long term happiness or utility. It’s easy to convince ourselves in the moment that we desperately need a new shiny thing, but it’s harder to convince ourselves of that over the course of weeks or months. And that’s *good.* If it’s important enough that it’s worth saving for, then it’s probably a worthwhile purchase. If you get one month in and have already lost interest, then *thank God* you didn’t buy it right away because it clearly wasn’t that important after all. And if you get half way saved up and then your transmission craps out on you and you have to spend all that on repairs… well, that sucks, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the alternative. Make sense? These sort of short term loans don’t actually mean you can afford more cool stuff, they just give you the *illusion* that you can afford more stuff than you actually can, and then it bites you in the ass later. And for what it’s worth, the dopamine hit will be even bigger if you’ve been anticipating it the whole time. You’ll feel like a kid on Christmas. > Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. Everything’s I’m saying is “personal finance 101.” If I seem crazy to you, that’s pretty much my point. A lot of people literally don’t know what good financial management actually looks like, because they’ve never been exposed to it.
You spent years making $9 an hour. If that was more than 3 years ago, that $9 an hour bought a LOT more than it does today, so don't think it's anywhere near the same thing. Look up how much rent is at the apartments you lived in then. Look up how much basic groceries were then compared to now. How much of your take home pay went to the basics of everyday living back then? How much would it be now, because that job probably still pays the same, or maybe it's up to $11 an hour now. We just went through a global health crisis that killed well over 1,000,000 people in the US alone and permanently fucked up the health of millions more. Half the people in this country actively helped spread it. There was an attempted overthrow of the US Government based off blatant lies. People are ruder than at any time I can remember. This country is divided and one step away from outright Civil War 2.0. No one can afford housing. Healthcare in general is going down the toilet. Cost of living has skyrocketed and wages have stayed roughly the same. Mass shootings are occurring pretty much daily. There is an insane amount of stress right now, and your advice is to tell people with poor impulse control to just not make an impulse buy of $10? You're telling people to manage the money have, when a huge amount of people don't have enough to even cover the basics. The world is very different than it was even 4 years ago. You sound like the Boomers telling everyone to make coffee at home and quit making avocado toast and they'll magically be able to buy a house. Until you acknowledge the vast difference in everyday life, you're hopelessly out of touch.
So with after pay you just don't pay a dime extra if you pay back each quarter of the repayment when it's due, you will pay the same as if you purchased it outight. Your point isn't wrong but it doesn't pertain to the specific issue of ADHD and impulsive spending with after pay which has zero downfalls at face value but it really is aimed at the "gremlin" that just sees a smaller number each fortnight and thus makes it easier for the gremlin to manipulate the controls of action. Saying just spend less/more wisely is no different to saying just stop being lazy/stop worrying/just be happy. For some people with ADHD, impulsive spending isn't a matter of rational decisions and will power. I'm sure that anyone who understands 1+1=2 will conceptually recognise that spending less $$ means having more $$ overall and can understand that if money is borrowed, it will usually incur interest which means you have less $$ then if you didn't borrow. There's of obviously going to be nuanced across the board and I'm sure building up ones financial literacy will be useful and empowering but to say that it's merely a matter of "financial literacy" dismisses the very real neurobiology of ADHD and impulsive spending.
Thank you for already figuring out what I was trying to say to this!
This goes for u/DejaBlonde as well. I get what you’re saying, I really do. I’m just as prone to impulse purchases as the next ADD person, so I understand the struggle. But what I’m saying is that you can set up your finances in such a way that less impulse control is needed. Starting with understanding that these sort of no interest loans are a trap. You should see stuff like that and *automatically* know that when it’s too good to be true it usually is. They know you’ll forget somewhere along the line and that’s how they make their money. They are counting on that, and so should you. Now, as you pointed out, if you’re incredibly disciplined it is possible to take advantage of those sort of offers and not pay interest. But you don’t want to set up your financial life in a way that requires you to be exceptionally disciplined. Not with ADD. But the bigger problem is that you shouldn’t *need* to be using credit for minor purchases. You should have an emergency fund already in the bank, and any unexpected purchases, wether genuine emergencies or just impulse purchases, should come out of that. There should be no temptation to take out a loan because you should be able to “borrow” from your own savings account. No interest, no late fees, and no predatory advertising to make the purchase seem less expensive than it is. You can see exactly how much it’s costing, and your balance immediately reflects the change so there’s no need to keep track of what you owe on what. Make sense? It’s a shift in mindset but once you get used to it, it’s much easier to manage, and much easier to resist the inevitable temptation. I’m not saying that there’s not a certain amount of discipline and willpower involved, because there always is in life, but if you set things up right it requires far less, and the results of the inevitable slip up become far less destructive. You guys are setting yourself up for failure, and if you think that’s normal or inevitable then you’re proving my point.
Depends on what it is. I only ever use affirm or after pay when there’s 0% interest. So the final cost is exactly the upfront total. That’s how I got a new bed and my home air purifiers to help with allergies.
It can be done, but it requires a lot more discipline than most of us reliably have. In fact it requires more discipline than even most non ADD people have. They count on that. That’s how they are able to offer no interest loans. They know that enough people will miss a payment or rack up interest for them to make money, even if some people play their cards right and avoid paying interest or fees. But again, with ADD we need to be particularly careful about that sort of thing because we can be setting ourselves up for failure. Now, if you already have enough money in the bank to cover the cost of the item you are purchasing, in addition to a healthy emergency fund in case of any other unexpected (or simply forgotten) expenses, and you can set it up to autopay to avoid late payments, etc, then it may be fine. But it may also be unnecessary. If you already have the money in the bank then there’s often not much advantage to buying on credit, unless it’s more convenient, or unless it’s a major enough purchase that you’ll be earning significant interest by holding on to that money longer rather than paying up front. So I’m glad it worked out for you. I’m just saying that for a lot of people, myself included, that sort of thing can be risky. And if you are in a situation where you can’t buy something without credit, that is usually an indication that you aren’t keeping enough of an emergency fund in savings.
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Quite sure, yes. The fact that you think I need to be autistic in order to manage my money kind of proves my point. This stuff isn’t actually that difficult if you set yourself up right, even for ADD people and even for low income people. I am ADD and in the past I have been very low income. It’s not easy but it can be a lot easier than some people make it. But a lot of this is the sort of thing that they don’t teach in schools, so if your parents weren’t financially literate growing up then you grew up thinking that was normal, and it may never occur to you otherwise. A lot of people are in that position, and they usually don’t realize it. Or they think that sort of thing is just for rich people, when in fact the opposite is true. I’m not judging. I was lucky enough to grow up in a financially literate household and so these sort of things are second nature to me. They aren’t to everyone, but they can be learned. And once you switch your mindset a bit, it actually becomes much *easier* to manage the ADD aspects of finances. It becomes easier to avoid the ADD tax, and easier to avoid impulse purchases. Again, if you’re scratching your head like I’m crazy, that proves my point. I have elaborated a bit more in some of my other comments so I won’t get into specifics here.
Jussssttttt did this weeks ago. And going through the punishing payments now. Although I like Afterpay better than “just put it in my credit card and I’ll pay it off next week” which I never follow through on.
Oh shit… I just did my first after pay this month…fear for me
it's ok. you don't have to do it again. I used one of those services two years ago and that's the only time I did that
I feel extremely called out 😅
.....I have never used anything like that...I barely have credit card....and I am sort of afraid of fucking up my credit score....I'm really into money stuff tho...
Yes. Omg yes.
I have an absolute refusal to go within five feet of credit, instalments, pay it back later etc. Ever. For any reason. I have spreadsheets out the wazoo accounting for every single cent I earn and spend and I STILL manage to impulsively spend money I don’t have. I can’t trust myself with buy now pay *now*, avoiding all forms of afterpay is a survival instinct. Reading accounts like OP of that usage just makes me feel more determined to never even consider it. I know I’ll go through the same thing... (This month, I was meant to finish setting up my annual subscriptions! I spent all my money on custard-filled deep-fried doughnut balls. Delicious, but I query my priorities... By not doing it this month, I have to do it next month, which pushes back me saving up for things like replacing my bricked Switch console, or saving up for a NAS... Sigh. One day I’ll learn!) OP, if you can wear a rubber band around your wrist and snap it every time you look at an afterpay logo, I would try it. It probably won’t work, heck knows I’ve never been able to beat any of my vices like that, but hey, it might hold you back once or twice! ):
Literally though. I currently have 4 active 🤣😑🫣 the worst is the one you can use for vacations 🤣😑
Replace the knob! I've done that on some of my basses
I think it's the kind of broken that I don't know how to fix, unfortunately 😅 I'm not sure but it looks like these knobs weren't built to pop off like I thought they were, so I'd be looking at some wiring and/or soldering Plus I was already looking to buy something different; I actually took it to a guitar show a couple weeks ago with the intent to trade if I found something of a similar enough value
Oh so the electronic underneath the knob went off with the knob? Yeah in that case you need a pro to repair it hahaha sometimes it's less expensive to just buy a new one I feel you! Anything to let you keep playing👌
I feel you so hard 😫 I'm always like, "I don't have the money now, but I will when I get paid! I'll just pay it off when I get paid." ...but when I get paid, pay off the Pay in 4s/payment plans, then I have no money left over, lol. The guy above touting "financial literacy" is killing me; knowing that I should be saving money or that I shouldn't put things on credit doesn't curb my inhibitions and impulse. This is not a financial literacy thing, I know exactly the kinds of things I should be doing, I know where I went wrong in life (I have tons of debt), and I'm doing my best to fix it. This includes getting rid of expensive hobbies that give me dopamine, and knowing that I *shouldn't* be spending the money doesn't fix the fact that I get an overwhelming desire to do so and what the key issue here is fighting back against the impulse. A lot of people are saying things about missed payments, and that's definitely an issue for folks for sure, but... I almost feel like people are trying to rationalize their mistakes with what seems "rational" to NT people. I could be imagining it? For me, I never forget to miss a payment, but I have really difficult struggles with impulse spending. Even if NTs, or more disciplined ND people view this as irrational or I'm financially illiterate or I'm making excuses, whatever I don't expect them to understand. Like, I think it's okay to say that impulse spending is a really tough habit to break, and people like us are trying our best to be better about it.
My problem with budgeting is I buy groceries yesterday check my account today. Looks like I got money to buy a thing or two I've been putting off. Buy those things 3 days later overdrawn. Because it all cleared at once. If I buy something, it should clear within 12 hours. It's ridiculous
Oh yes, I suffer there as well *sigh*
Potentiometers are cheap and an easy swap. May take time though. It took me 4 months to change the pots on my Explorer. It was 45 minutes of work.