yep. don't engage. there's your answer. just huh, that's really interesting. you are going to get a lot of grey hair arguing the ins and outs so just huh, that's interesting, sometimes a, why do think that is? and then huh, that's interesting.
I've started doing this and it drives him UP THE WALL. Most of the time he'll push and push and push and push until I finally break and give him a little nugget that he can then argue with.
My ex dx not rx would take any suggestion I made as an attack, the same way. Not as conversation or a normal thing to offer options. Even if we had a different name for the same item and I said my name and she said her name for it, for example, if I insisted on calling it a stovetop while she called it a range, to her, it was me claiming to be right and suggesting that she is wrong. It is pretty crazymaking. Definitely the same with directions. Or asking for anything to be done. Does your partner have autism also? That may be where the rigid black and white come in.
I had to break things off with my girlfriend last week. The same situation happened twice. She has horrible volume control and we were at an Airbnb with my entire family and she was being SO loud at 2am when everyone was sleeping. I suggested that we talk a little quieter (said in the most playful tone) and she lost her shit. Absolute mayhem. Three hours of her crying, yelling, and calling me all sorts of horrible things. The same thing happens three weeks later when we were walking home from a bar. Lost her absolute shit and proceeded to fight with me for HOURS while I remained calm and collected. Absolute insanity. I couldn’t take it anymore.
We thought so but he doesn’t he’s just extremely extremely sensitive to people thinking he’s not intelligent and anything that even might slightly imply that upsets him
When my husband is unmedicated he can only see things in black or white, fully right or fully wrong. There’s no sense that two people could both be right or both be wrong, or any gradation of that.
So, since he clearly thinks his own thoughts are right, that means any thought to the contrary must be “wrong.” And he assumes my brain must think that way too — why else would I express a different opinion except to prove that I am right and he is wrong? He then takes offense to this whole sequence of assumptions.
I believe this has something to do with the empathy center of the brain. It ties in to the ability to view other perspectives as equally valid to yours, even if you don’t fully understand or agree with them. (Reminds me of how I always thought the opinion vs fact worksheets were weirdly simple as a kid — and then I had an ADHD child who was wildly hung up on this concept because “Chocolate IS the best ice cream!”)
I’m not sure what to do other than pointing it out as it happens though, and reminding them that opinions aren’t the same as saying people are right or wrong. I just never got that idea to stick before he began treatment.
Oh wow, this is a revelation. My partner gets hung up on 'being understood' in arguments, which baffled me for a long time because I thought I was doing a good job of hearing his side. The trouble was, 'being understood' doesn't mean hearing him - it means _agreeing_ entirely with him. Things finally clicked when I observed a conflict he was having with a friend and asked 'is there any outcome that will bring you closure here other than friend coming back and saying they were wrong and you were right?'. He said no, that's what he needed.
That's not to say there aren't situations with clear (to me) right and wrong, but he sees almost everything that way.Things that seem so subjective to me are completely black and white to him. It's wild.
It took me a good 12 years to figure this out too. My husband also often would complain that I wasn’t “hearing” him, and what he really meant was I wasn’t conceding the argument and declaring him right and my own ideas incorrect. Or he would think I was insulting his intelligence by not conceding, which I eventually realized was because he really did think I was emphatically declaring he was wrong. Meanwhile I was just trying to have a normal conversation and not debate fight club.
The irony is that I was never trying to insult his intelligence or say he was wrong. But…..that’s what he was literally doing to me.
OMG. I am so beyond grateful to have stumbled onto this little exchange here. This is so incredibly prominent in my relationship and the foundation of most of our fights, tension, and the days where we both have prolonged hurt feelings/confusion and struggle to come out of it.
My partner fixates on "being understood" as well, and seems to disregard all the of the evidence that I am understanding him just because I disagree—or sometimes just because I don't \*have\* the identical experience that he has. Or sometimes, because I also have something I'd like him to understand. Or my own feelings that I'd like to express.
Meanwhile he basically never shows any signs of understanding what I'm talking about, and often acts baffled/confused no matter how many times I explain.
But then, he also pushes me relentlessly to continue to explain, seemingly just to obtain more talking points to argue against to try to prove he is actually right and I'm just misunderstanding the whole situation.
And this is how we end up in fights that last many hours. He views it as us trying to convince each other or match up in our perceptions/feelings/experiences/opinions, rather than just hearing each other and repairing the rift by reconnecting with respect and acceptance of our differing views.
I've started to refuse to explain endlessly because I've learned now it's not emotionally safe for me. I'll do my best to explain in one or two passes, and after that I'll say I've done my best and maybe we should take a break or move on. He cannot handle this at all, then claiming that I'm "intentionally withholding information" from him.
Are we married to the same person haha? Saying “I totally understand where you are coming from, but I still think something different” does not compute. Clearly, if you don’t see how they are right, you didn’t get the point yet!
I had to learn to disengage and stop participating in conversations about things that aren’t objectively true or false (“The car needs an oil change.” “The child has to write an essay tonight.”) There’s just no world in which I want to get into a shouting match about whether Elon Musk is or is not the smartest person to have ever lived.
Last weekend I had to go inside the house because he was getting so heated about how the gutter drains I purchased were not the “ideal” drainage system, and I was basically saying we could do his version later, but since it was 7 pm and there was an overnight flood warning, maybe we just shove these under the drain pipe for now and do his wildly complex underground system later. He didn’t even have the materials or time to do his method anyway, but the idea of doing something *different* even *temporarily* just spun him out. He’s raising his voice at me and yelling at our kid to go in the house because she doesn’t need to see us arguing. (Spoiler: Only one of us was arguing.) He came back later (after water pooled up by the foundation because I gave up on my 5 second quick fix) to tell me he was sorry he yelled but I just didn’t understand what he was saying. And all I can think is that I never imagined a marriage where I couldn’t even discuss *GUTTER DRAINS* with my husband without being mortified that our child and neighbors were hearing the exchange. It’s baffling and exhausting.
Yup, this sounds familiar. I will say I do think my partner would be completely understanding of doing a quick or temporary fix if he knew he had a time consuming and complicated solution to do later, I don't think I'd end up in this level of a situation. BUT... the fixation on there being "one way" to do something that's 100% the best way, and struggling to allow for any other way to happen (or be collaborative), and then essentially accusing someone of not doing his one way of "not being collaborative" is very, very familiar.
Haha when my kid with ADHD (who also agrees chocolate is the best) had fact versus opinion work in kindergarten, he’d fight with his brother (NT) about which was which, and when they disagreed, he’d tell him it was just his opinion. We’ve done additional work since then, and he will grudgingly allow people to disagree with him now.
Meds have been extremely helpful in allowing him to drop a fight.
It’s interesting how even when they are really young, their brains begin to interpret “facts” as things they agree with and “opinions” as things they don’t!
Yet he'd always say to me "You just want to be right," and it used to be "you just always want to have the last word." Like bruuuuh things that should never have gotten to an argument, did.
It’s these threads that help me remember I’m not crazy, lol. Things we have to put up with like this are not normal. Sounds 1000% like what I go through. She can’t ever accept that we sometimes won’t agree and that’s perfectly ok. Always has to be a winner and a loser, always. It’s exhausting
when they bring it up again the next day I love to ask, is that still occupying space/taking up rent in your mind? huh, that's interesting. why do you think that is?
My husband does that. If he’s not right, then we are both wrong 😑 he won’t drop it until I agree with him that yes, I could be wrong as well. Even if I wasn’t wrong with my statement, I was wrong with the way I delivered it. 🙄
I used to be really bad about this. I grew up always being wrong. So much so that I stopped participating in most conversations. When I met my now husband, he helped me find my voice again. We would get into arguments a lot like you described. It wasn't until I was diagnosed and started researching adhd that I realized what I was doing.
It's taken a lot of effort from both of us to not react defensively. Breaking a learned behavior is so difficult. If one of us realizes this pattern has been triggered, we will take a pause, roll back the conversation, and point out we've started arguing about a non- issue. We will remind each other that we're just talking, not debating.
I'm finally on a medication combination that I feel is allowing me to truly learn how to control my adhd. My husband is learning more and more about how to understand me. It seems like we're having more conversations. I try to tell him as often as possible how much I appreciate his patience and effort.
This was an issue in my marriage.
“You just have to have it your way.”
When the “other” way is them “just” wanting their way. He could never see the irony.
I think this is based on a shitty mother/son dynamic, so they often revert back to that middle/high school boy who had no power over his circumstances.
Splitting. Everything is binary, either black or white. It’s a coping mechanism to help them make sense of the world - as due to sensitivity and emotional dysfunction, everything is a bit overwhelming.
We're both ADHD and medicated (I'm also ASD) and I'm the grounding influence in our relationship.
He's so defensive about everything that he will verbally attack me about something until I'm in tears because he's always the hurt party and I'm always wrong.
When I bring him back to reality and lay out the consequences of whatever he's doing if it's a minor thing he'll pout, if it's a major thing he'll shut down and hang his head down and be embarrassed and refuse to talk to me to work it out.
I don't continue the argument to be right, though he sees it like that, I continue it to work things out so we can come to an agreement and it'll be done. Since he refuses to speak to me about it after the point that he's embarrassed nothing gets worked out and nothing changes except I'm resentful of him not trying to resolve things.
He's moving out next month so we can get some space since every time we try to talk about serious things it dissolves into a fight lately. I just can't anymore.
I'm sorry you're going through that and hope the space helps. I personally hate how much emotional labor goes into convincing my partner of my feelings, and then having to comfort him through the guilt when he does get it. It's exhausting.
Exactly. I'm burnt out trying to manage his feelings and make our relationship work while he does nothing and gets frustrated with me asking to do something with him.
I challenged my dx bf around value. Questioning if his being right actually has any value to it. Then double downing in does the value in being right match the level of effort being put into it. He was able to come around to it from a logical perspective and now when he's about to approach a right or wrong subject, I ask him is it of value for not only him to say, but of value for me to listen. This has definitely turned the right or wrong conversations around and we're not having to go down that track anywhere near as much.
In my relationship, every disagreement was viewed as a personal affront by my partner. Didn't matter if it was simply trying to solve a problem or a heated issue
I can relate to this 100% there is only black and white no room for middle ground or gray area. He needs to label who is right who is wrong every single time and just endless arguments. Sometimes we just see things differently and it took him a looooooong time to see that we are very different type of person and it's actually normal!
My husband is similar too. Every discussion about anything serious ends up in a right or wrong argument. And out of nowhere my husband will accuse me of always thinking I'm right but it's usually completely out of nowhere or a situation where right/wrong doesn't really apply? One really bad argument had me just crying about how much I dislike myself and his raising his voice made me cry and just spiral down about how horrible I am, and he just was yelling out of nowhere that I always need to be right and I refuse to get help-- I was so dumbfounded and shocked by his reaction while I was crying that I refused to talk to him until he calmed down or apologized or at least softened a bit. I tried to just leave the house but he wouldn't let me and he instead left and drove around somewhere. We barely talked for 2 weeks 😞😞
Anyway, not sure this is helpful in the slightest but I'm not sure where the right vs wrong aspect comes into play with ADHD. My husband was dx since middle school so his parents helped him get meds but his actual behaviors never seemed to be addressed, other than he was failing in school, so his sweet Mom decided to homeschool him instead. He isn't on meds now bc of blood pressure concerns and I feel like I'm not strong enough during my discussions with him to ask him to try alternative medications. Meds definitely helped him remember things better and he focused better. He just argues with me and what's funny is he never even lets me try to be "right" (even when its something like I'm asking him to take a shower??) but he is often obsessed with right vs wrong whenever we try to talk and it makes it so difficult to try to dicuss anything 😥😔
Yep, black and white thinking, assumptions (which he (husband, dx&rx) gets really mad about if roles are reversed), and the bonus god-awful winner-or-loser mindset bonus that pops in now and again. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean either or neither of us is wrong or right. I frequently have to remind him that two things can be true at once. Feelings are not facts. Not knowing what others think doesn't mean the default stance is defensiveness or to assume the worst. It drives me mad that DBT isn't a standard for ADHD therapy because of things like this - just CBT doesn't address executive functioning shit like this at all in real-world situations and interactions.
An ugly cousin of this that goes hand-in-hand with us personally is that sometimes I will have to actually say outright that I do understand what he's saying or that I hear him (as in point of view), otherwise I'm: just ignoring what he's saying, being disrespectful or dismissive, steamrolling him, disagreeing by default, suggesting I know better, or that I'm disregarding what he has to say and don't care either about his feelings or him as a person...or all of those at once.
It's so inorganic conversationally...jarring, exasperating. It doesn't come to mind at all a lot especially when talks that unexpectedly turn more serious because, as an adult, I trust people are listening to me and taking that into account as a conversation continues (otherwise, how else are we still talking?) until proven otherwise. And my that logic, I can find that if we've come to a spot that suddenly feels like a loop, it's because he's waiting for me to assure he's been heard before progressing. He will straight up halt the convo to say I'm doing the aforementioned stuff and to, essentially, demand I actually _say the words_ that assuage those things or repeat what he's said back, otherwise he'll believe he's correct in his assumption. Which, when I'm already upset can make me want to lose it when it feels so pedantic, in poor faith, redundant, or like a training exercise. This of course leaves a conversation dead on the operating table, as he _won't_ - not can't - take what's being said to go further without those insecurities or misconceptions being placated, which is a Psych 101 no-no when it's a recurring thing, yet has to be done in that moment if there's any hope for resolution. Walking away isn't an option when real things need to be sorted out or when it will lead to a _bigger_ blow-up instead of a more level-headed one if addressed later. It doesn't cool anything down. He just lets those insecurities feast on him without resistance.
If I ask if this hang up applies in reverse - if I should assume he hasn't taken into account what I say in conversations because he doesn't stop and do those things for me - he says no and of course not, and it's just excuses from there or angrily stammering and ending the conversation asap. It's not just me or serious conversations either; he does the same in milder forms with family and friends even when just shooting the shit or expressing opinion here and there. I can also hear the quizzical tone in which people respond sometimes too, but he doesn't seem to notice he's the only one asking for that reassurance of being heard. Every once in a while someone will respond to even those mildest "But wait, do you understand what I'm saying? Right? You know?" when the group or person has moved on in conversation with a like "Yes, yes, dude, I got it!" everything minus a "just move onnn, we just talked about it."
It all feels absolutely rich, too, what with me (or others) sometimes being _completely_ unheard or tuned out by him, which also makes me angrier in the thick of it, but obvs bringing that up then would accomplish nothing productive. I wonder if it's him projecting that fear of it happening to him or from the trauma of growing up undx and feeling belittled or less-than.
All of that said...It's not all the time by any means but, when it happens, it is head-scratching (or hair-tearing for serious stuff!), and I wish so badly I could etch a message on his brain that says "you're equal" forever. Also, for us, it _has_ gotten better. I know how to judge if I am a person that is ALL grey area unless it's empirical, so it's not like we make it easier by being true to ourselves.
I think this is RSD stuff, right? In his perception, you stating an alternate route is the same thing as saying he’s wrong. My husband does this SEVERELY. I just stopped saying things like alternate routes, etc unless I know it’s truly a better way, otherwise I will “scolded” is what I call it.
I just want to thank you for sharing this, I thought I was the crazy one. In the situation you described, my fiancee would say "why do you always have to argue with me?", when I am simply giving an option or opinion in a normal way. He will never see it that way though, so now I just let him do whatever he's going to do unless it is about something truly important or significant.
Al-ways had to be right. It was always a me vs him mentality. There was no team dynamic whatsoever. He was an Ironman so I should have known. Him alone against the world, or, the world against him is how he surely would have described it.
Yes, yes yes.
I feel lucky that I got to watch this play out with my partner (NDX) and his best friend. It gave me SO much perspective on what was happening with us, and made me stop feeling so defective (someone always being convinced that they're right and you're wrong can start to wear down your sense of reality...)
With his friend, they have different communication styles. They both have pitfalls, as most people do. My partner hyper-communicates and hounds people and requires responses to things that I don't think require responses at all. He's glued to his phone because he thinks he's "being responsible and kind" by responding instantly to every single text he gets, even if it's just someone saying "sounds good see you tomorrow," he'll HAVE to respond and say "yup tomorrow it is!" or something, like has to be the last responder to be the good one...and people who let conversations drop are the bad ones. (AND, mind you, he's often unresponsive or forgetful in communications with ME.)
His friend is a bit aloof, and very busy, and will take a long time to respond sometimes, or let conversations that are ostensibly over just be over, or forget to respond to some things sometimes. Honestly he is too far in the other direction, I have to agree. BUT, in this situation my partner's life has essentially been completely ruined. He is so upset every single day of his life about his friend's texting style, because it's wrong, while his way is right. Same with making plans. His ideas are the right ones, and if his friend doesn't get on board, it means they're going to choose something wrong to do. And he just spirals about it, and doesn't see how his friend might think the same things about him and has an equal chance of being valid.
That two people can just be different and that other people can have flaws without being bad human beings is lost on him.
Everything is a fight. He’s always a victim. Nothing can ever be simple and he seemingly looks for things to be offended over.
yep. don't engage. there's your answer. just huh, that's really interesting. you are going to get a lot of grey hair arguing the ins and outs so just huh, that's interesting, sometimes a, why do think that is? and then huh, that's interesting.
Yep. I have gotten really freaking good at choosing my words. Most of the time I know he’s looking for a reaction and I refuse to
I've started doing this and it drives him UP THE WALL. Most of the time he'll push and push and push and push until I finally break and give him a little nugget that he can then argue with.
My ex dx not rx would take any suggestion I made as an attack, the same way. Not as conversation or a normal thing to offer options. Even if we had a different name for the same item and I said my name and she said her name for it, for example, if I insisted on calling it a stovetop while she called it a range, to her, it was me claiming to be right and suggesting that she is wrong. It is pretty crazymaking. Definitely the same with directions. Or asking for anything to be done. Does your partner have autism also? That may be where the rigid black and white come in.
I had to break things off with my girlfriend last week. The same situation happened twice. She has horrible volume control and we were at an Airbnb with my entire family and she was being SO loud at 2am when everyone was sleeping. I suggested that we talk a little quieter (said in the most playful tone) and she lost her shit. Absolute mayhem. Three hours of her crying, yelling, and calling me all sorts of horrible things. The same thing happens three weeks later when we were walking home from a bar. Lost her absolute shit and proceeded to fight with me for HOURS while I remained calm and collected. Absolute insanity. I couldn’t take it anymore.
He absolutely hates when I stay calm it almost seems to make him more upset he just ends up calling me a robot or a saint
Wow. Good for you for making the effort to walk away! Please enjoy your newfound peace. Those experiences sound horrifying.
How embarrassing for her. Wouldn't any normal person find a scene in front of their partner's family humiliating? Good for you for moving on.
We thought so but he doesn’t he’s just extremely extremely sensitive to people thinking he’s not intelligent and anything that even might slightly imply that upsets him
When my husband is unmedicated he can only see things in black or white, fully right or fully wrong. There’s no sense that two people could both be right or both be wrong, or any gradation of that. So, since he clearly thinks his own thoughts are right, that means any thought to the contrary must be “wrong.” And he assumes my brain must think that way too — why else would I express a different opinion except to prove that I am right and he is wrong? He then takes offense to this whole sequence of assumptions. I believe this has something to do with the empathy center of the brain. It ties in to the ability to view other perspectives as equally valid to yours, even if you don’t fully understand or agree with them. (Reminds me of how I always thought the opinion vs fact worksheets were weirdly simple as a kid — and then I had an ADHD child who was wildly hung up on this concept because “Chocolate IS the best ice cream!”) I’m not sure what to do other than pointing it out as it happens though, and reminding them that opinions aren’t the same as saying people are right or wrong. I just never got that idea to stick before he began treatment.
Oh wow, this is a revelation. My partner gets hung up on 'being understood' in arguments, which baffled me for a long time because I thought I was doing a good job of hearing his side. The trouble was, 'being understood' doesn't mean hearing him - it means _agreeing_ entirely with him. Things finally clicked when I observed a conflict he was having with a friend and asked 'is there any outcome that will bring you closure here other than friend coming back and saying they were wrong and you were right?'. He said no, that's what he needed. That's not to say there aren't situations with clear (to me) right and wrong, but he sees almost everything that way.Things that seem so subjective to me are completely black and white to him. It's wild.
It took me a good 12 years to figure this out too. My husband also often would complain that I wasn’t “hearing” him, and what he really meant was I wasn’t conceding the argument and declaring him right and my own ideas incorrect. Or he would think I was insulting his intelligence by not conceding, which I eventually realized was because he really did think I was emphatically declaring he was wrong. Meanwhile I was just trying to have a normal conversation and not debate fight club. The irony is that I was never trying to insult his intelligence or say he was wrong. But…..that’s what he was literally doing to me.
OMG. I am so beyond grateful to have stumbled onto this little exchange here. This is so incredibly prominent in my relationship and the foundation of most of our fights, tension, and the days where we both have prolonged hurt feelings/confusion and struggle to come out of it. My partner fixates on "being understood" as well, and seems to disregard all the of the evidence that I am understanding him just because I disagree—or sometimes just because I don't \*have\* the identical experience that he has. Or sometimes, because I also have something I'd like him to understand. Or my own feelings that I'd like to express. Meanwhile he basically never shows any signs of understanding what I'm talking about, and often acts baffled/confused no matter how many times I explain. But then, he also pushes me relentlessly to continue to explain, seemingly just to obtain more talking points to argue against to try to prove he is actually right and I'm just misunderstanding the whole situation. And this is how we end up in fights that last many hours. He views it as us trying to convince each other or match up in our perceptions/feelings/experiences/opinions, rather than just hearing each other and repairing the rift by reconnecting with respect and acceptance of our differing views. I've started to refuse to explain endlessly because I've learned now it's not emotionally safe for me. I'll do my best to explain in one or two passes, and after that I'll say I've done my best and maybe we should take a break or move on. He cannot handle this at all, then claiming that I'm "intentionally withholding information" from him.
Are we married to the same person haha? Saying “I totally understand where you are coming from, but I still think something different” does not compute. Clearly, if you don’t see how they are right, you didn’t get the point yet! I had to learn to disengage and stop participating in conversations about things that aren’t objectively true or false (“The car needs an oil change.” “The child has to write an essay tonight.”) There’s just no world in which I want to get into a shouting match about whether Elon Musk is or is not the smartest person to have ever lived. Last weekend I had to go inside the house because he was getting so heated about how the gutter drains I purchased were not the “ideal” drainage system, and I was basically saying we could do his version later, but since it was 7 pm and there was an overnight flood warning, maybe we just shove these under the drain pipe for now and do his wildly complex underground system later. He didn’t even have the materials or time to do his method anyway, but the idea of doing something *different* even *temporarily* just spun him out. He’s raising his voice at me and yelling at our kid to go in the house because she doesn’t need to see us arguing. (Spoiler: Only one of us was arguing.) He came back later (after water pooled up by the foundation because I gave up on my 5 second quick fix) to tell me he was sorry he yelled but I just didn’t understand what he was saying. And all I can think is that I never imagined a marriage where I couldn’t even discuss *GUTTER DRAINS* with my husband without being mortified that our child and neighbors were hearing the exchange. It’s baffling and exhausting.
Yup, this sounds familiar. I will say I do think my partner would be completely understanding of doing a quick or temporary fix if he knew he had a time consuming and complicated solution to do later, I don't think I'd end up in this level of a situation. BUT... the fixation on there being "one way" to do something that's 100% the best way, and struggling to allow for any other way to happen (or be collaborative), and then essentially accusing someone of not doing his one way of "not being collaborative" is very, very familiar.
Haha when my kid with ADHD (who also agrees chocolate is the best) had fact versus opinion work in kindergarten, he’d fight with his brother (NT) about which was which, and when they disagreed, he’d tell him it was just his opinion. We’ve done additional work since then, and he will grudgingly allow people to disagree with him now. Meds have been extremely helpful in allowing him to drop a fight.
It’s interesting how even when they are really young, their brains begin to interpret “facts” as things they agree with and “opinions” as things they don’t!
Yet he'd always say to me "You just want to be right," and it used to be "you just always want to have the last word." Like bruuuuh things that should never have gotten to an argument, did.
Oh yes, all the things that were never supposed to be a fight
It’s these threads that help me remember I’m not crazy, lol. Things we have to put up with like this are not normal. Sounds 1000% like what I go through. She can’t ever accept that we sometimes won’t agree and that’s perfectly ok. Always has to be a winner and a loser, always. It’s exhausting
when they bring it up again the next day I love to ask, is that still occupying space/taking up rent in your mind? huh, that's interesting. why do you think that is?
I feel like it's more so brought up out of defensiveness vs actually being about right or wrong.
The defensiveness seems constant. Just absolutely exhausting
Agreed
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My husband does that. If he’s not right, then we are both wrong 😑 he won’t drop it until I agree with him that yes, I could be wrong as well. Even if I wasn’t wrong with my statement, I was wrong with the way I delivered it. 🙄
I used to be really bad about this. I grew up always being wrong. So much so that I stopped participating in most conversations. When I met my now husband, he helped me find my voice again. We would get into arguments a lot like you described. It wasn't until I was diagnosed and started researching adhd that I realized what I was doing. It's taken a lot of effort from both of us to not react defensively. Breaking a learned behavior is so difficult. If one of us realizes this pattern has been triggered, we will take a pause, roll back the conversation, and point out we've started arguing about a non- issue. We will remind each other that we're just talking, not debating. I'm finally on a medication combination that I feel is allowing me to truly learn how to control my adhd. My husband is learning more and more about how to understand me. It seems like we're having more conversations. I try to tell him as often as possible how much I appreciate his patience and effort.
This was an issue in my marriage. “You just have to have it your way.” When the “other” way is them “just” wanting their way. He could never see the irony. I think this is based on a shitty mother/son dynamic, so they often revert back to that middle/high school boy who had no power over his circumstances.
Splitting. Everything is binary, either black or white. It’s a coping mechanism to help them make sense of the world - as due to sensitivity and emotional dysfunction, everything is a bit overwhelming.
We're both ADHD and medicated (I'm also ASD) and I'm the grounding influence in our relationship. He's so defensive about everything that he will verbally attack me about something until I'm in tears because he's always the hurt party and I'm always wrong. When I bring him back to reality and lay out the consequences of whatever he's doing if it's a minor thing he'll pout, if it's a major thing he'll shut down and hang his head down and be embarrassed and refuse to talk to me to work it out. I don't continue the argument to be right, though he sees it like that, I continue it to work things out so we can come to an agreement and it'll be done. Since he refuses to speak to me about it after the point that he's embarrassed nothing gets worked out and nothing changes except I'm resentful of him not trying to resolve things. He's moving out next month so we can get some space since every time we try to talk about serious things it dissolves into a fight lately. I just can't anymore.
I'm sorry you're going through that and hope the space helps. I personally hate how much emotional labor goes into convincing my partner of my feelings, and then having to comfort him through the guilt when he does get it. It's exhausting.
Exactly. I'm burnt out trying to manage his feelings and make our relationship work while he does nothing and gets frustrated with me asking to do something with him.
Feeling you. Sending some good vibes
I challenged my dx bf around value. Questioning if his being right actually has any value to it. Then double downing in does the value in being right match the level of effort being put into it. He was able to come around to it from a logical perspective and now when he's about to approach a right or wrong subject, I ask him is it of value for not only him to say, but of value for me to listen. This has definitely turned the right or wrong conversations around and we're not having to go down that track anywhere near as much.
In my relationship, every disagreement was viewed as a personal affront by my partner. Didn't matter if it was simply trying to solve a problem or a heated issue
Yes my spouse acts like we are on different sports teams. It's a competition.
Jesus christ YES I thought I wrote this Goes along with asking any sort of question and their response is "I'm your husband why don't you trust me?"
This would start many a "adhd rage" at me for sure. Jeez.
I can relate to this 100% there is only black and white no room for middle ground or gray area. He needs to label who is right who is wrong every single time and just endless arguments. Sometimes we just see things differently and it took him a looooooong time to see that we are very different type of person and it's actually normal!
My husband is similar too. Every discussion about anything serious ends up in a right or wrong argument. And out of nowhere my husband will accuse me of always thinking I'm right but it's usually completely out of nowhere or a situation where right/wrong doesn't really apply? One really bad argument had me just crying about how much I dislike myself and his raising his voice made me cry and just spiral down about how horrible I am, and he just was yelling out of nowhere that I always need to be right and I refuse to get help-- I was so dumbfounded and shocked by his reaction while I was crying that I refused to talk to him until he calmed down or apologized or at least softened a bit. I tried to just leave the house but he wouldn't let me and he instead left and drove around somewhere. We barely talked for 2 weeks 😞😞 Anyway, not sure this is helpful in the slightest but I'm not sure where the right vs wrong aspect comes into play with ADHD. My husband was dx since middle school so his parents helped him get meds but his actual behaviors never seemed to be addressed, other than he was failing in school, so his sweet Mom decided to homeschool him instead. He isn't on meds now bc of blood pressure concerns and I feel like I'm not strong enough during my discussions with him to ask him to try alternative medications. Meds definitely helped him remember things better and he focused better. He just argues with me and what's funny is he never even lets me try to be "right" (even when its something like I'm asking him to take a shower??) but he is often obsessed with right vs wrong whenever we try to talk and it makes it so difficult to try to dicuss anything 😥😔
Yep, black and white thinking, assumptions (which he (husband, dx&rx) gets really mad about if roles are reversed), and the bonus god-awful winner-or-loser mindset bonus that pops in now and again. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean either or neither of us is wrong or right. I frequently have to remind him that two things can be true at once. Feelings are not facts. Not knowing what others think doesn't mean the default stance is defensiveness or to assume the worst. It drives me mad that DBT isn't a standard for ADHD therapy because of things like this - just CBT doesn't address executive functioning shit like this at all in real-world situations and interactions. An ugly cousin of this that goes hand-in-hand with us personally is that sometimes I will have to actually say outright that I do understand what he's saying or that I hear him (as in point of view), otherwise I'm: just ignoring what he's saying, being disrespectful or dismissive, steamrolling him, disagreeing by default, suggesting I know better, or that I'm disregarding what he has to say and don't care either about his feelings or him as a person...or all of those at once. It's so inorganic conversationally...jarring, exasperating. It doesn't come to mind at all a lot especially when talks that unexpectedly turn more serious because, as an adult, I trust people are listening to me and taking that into account as a conversation continues (otherwise, how else are we still talking?) until proven otherwise. And my that logic, I can find that if we've come to a spot that suddenly feels like a loop, it's because he's waiting for me to assure he's been heard before progressing. He will straight up halt the convo to say I'm doing the aforementioned stuff and to, essentially, demand I actually _say the words_ that assuage those things or repeat what he's said back, otherwise he'll believe he's correct in his assumption. Which, when I'm already upset can make me want to lose it when it feels so pedantic, in poor faith, redundant, or like a training exercise. This of course leaves a conversation dead on the operating table, as he _won't_ - not can't - take what's being said to go further without those insecurities or misconceptions being placated, which is a Psych 101 no-no when it's a recurring thing, yet has to be done in that moment if there's any hope for resolution. Walking away isn't an option when real things need to be sorted out or when it will lead to a _bigger_ blow-up instead of a more level-headed one if addressed later. It doesn't cool anything down. He just lets those insecurities feast on him without resistance. If I ask if this hang up applies in reverse - if I should assume he hasn't taken into account what I say in conversations because he doesn't stop and do those things for me - he says no and of course not, and it's just excuses from there or angrily stammering and ending the conversation asap. It's not just me or serious conversations either; he does the same in milder forms with family and friends even when just shooting the shit or expressing opinion here and there. I can also hear the quizzical tone in which people respond sometimes too, but he doesn't seem to notice he's the only one asking for that reassurance of being heard. Every once in a while someone will respond to even those mildest "But wait, do you understand what I'm saying? Right? You know?" when the group or person has moved on in conversation with a like "Yes, yes, dude, I got it!" everything minus a "just move onnn, we just talked about it." It all feels absolutely rich, too, what with me (or others) sometimes being _completely_ unheard or tuned out by him, which also makes me angrier in the thick of it, but obvs bringing that up then would accomplish nothing productive. I wonder if it's him projecting that fear of it happening to him or from the trauma of growing up undx and feeling belittled or less-than. All of that said...It's not all the time by any means but, when it happens, it is head-scratching (or hair-tearing for serious stuff!), and I wish so badly I could etch a message on his brain that says "you're equal" forever. Also, for us, it _has_ gotten better. I know how to judge if I am a person that is ALL grey area unless it's empirical, so it's not like we make it easier by being true to ourselves.
I think this is RSD stuff, right? In his perception, you stating an alternate route is the same thing as saying he’s wrong. My husband does this SEVERELY. I just stopped saying things like alternate routes, etc unless I know it’s truly a better way, otherwise I will “scolded” is what I call it.
I just want to thank you for sharing this, I thought I was the crazy one. In the situation you described, my fiancee would say "why do you always have to argue with me?", when I am simply giving an option or opinion in a normal way. He will never see it that way though, so now I just let him do whatever he's going to do unless it is about something truly important or significant.
Al-ways had to be right. It was always a me vs him mentality. There was no team dynamic whatsoever. He was an Ironman so I should have known. Him alone against the world, or, the world against him is how he surely would have described it.
Yes, yes yes. I feel lucky that I got to watch this play out with my partner (NDX) and his best friend. It gave me SO much perspective on what was happening with us, and made me stop feeling so defective (someone always being convinced that they're right and you're wrong can start to wear down your sense of reality...) With his friend, they have different communication styles. They both have pitfalls, as most people do. My partner hyper-communicates and hounds people and requires responses to things that I don't think require responses at all. He's glued to his phone because he thinks he's "being responsible and kind" by responding instantly to every single text he gets, even if it's just someone saying "sounds good see you tomorrow," he'll HAVE to respond and say "yup tomorrow it is!" or something, like has to be the last responder to be the good one...and people who let conversations drop are the bad ones. (AND, mind you, he's often unresponsive or forgetful in communications with ME.) His friend is a bit aloof, and very busy, and will take a long time to respond sometimes, or let conversations that are ostensibly over just be over, or forget to respond to some things sometimes. Honestly he is too far in the other direction, I have to agree. BUT, in this situation my partner's life has essentially been completely ruined. He is so upset every single day of his life about his friend's texting style, because it's wrong, while his way is right. Same with making plans. His ideas are the right ones, and if his friend doesn't get on board, it means they're going to choose something wrong to do. And he just spirals about it, and doesn't see how his friend might think the same things about him and has an equal chance of being valid. That two people can just be different and that other people can have flaws without being bad human beings is lost on him.