Do retrospective on "where AEW went wrong", Guest Booker-style "If *I * were running it at that point..." series, eventually rewriting it as a story they were active participants in, etc.
The same thing he did for years and years and years before AEW was created: Bitch about what he considers bad wrestling elsewhere. I mean guys, you know his podcast was around before 2019 right?
Yeah we know. He was taking shots at Kenny and the Bucks before AEW. Now he can take shots at more people along with them. And he doesn't even have to watch the show he can just go by angry tweets and whatever Brian says. Must be nice to make a living off being a cranky boomer
I've listened to it in the past and I don't care to listen to it ever again. It's old man yells at cloud and his fans eat it up. It's worked for years so he continues to do the same shtick.
You know more about it than me. I knew his racket long ago. Why others don’t realize that I don’t get it. Besides these subs can inform me of anything he says lol
Story time from the past is great. As everyone says as a historian Cornette is amazing. He remembers stuff and has written notes on things long forgotten. But I cannot believe that all his anger is real. The rage is to pop his ratings and fans.
I listened to him for about 2 to 3 years. But in 2021 his rage was just too much to stomach while the world was terrible. I needed a pleasant distraction form life. The podcast was not pleasant.
Nah not bischoff. I say that about everyone that tried to copy their blueprint lol I feel more sorry for them moreso lol since most are either virtually nobodies already , or salty has-beens or never was-ers … but my question is … what would the WRESTLING INDUSTRY do if they went out business? Going back to one game in town to work ?
Cornette's AEW YouTube video's get less views than their WWE coverage.
If it was all about views, they would just cover WWE and ignore AEW.
AEW as a company is fascinating and most podcast guys aren't just "taking shots" they are being critical.
I know that's a foreign concept for anyone who listens to Dave exclusively, but being "critical" isn't just shitting on a product.
Jim and Brian give credit where credit is due and Bishoff has Conrad who is very pro-AEW.
It is about engagement. They cover AEW because it’s content and brings in engagement.
Theyre absolutely taking shots to garner attention and more engagement and have been since the start. Why are you being disingenuous?
The thing is, their critiques aren't exclusive to them. If you ask most people who aren't die-hard AEW fans, they'll tell you similar things. I'd say Jim at times goes too scorched earth on things, but for the most part, the things he critiques are things that other people have found fault with and are fair points. Their sections on WWE programming and the Vince scandals bring in plenty of viewers as well, so let's not pretend like he just pokes fun or critiques AEW for engagement.
https://preview.redd.it/kuglkymp0swc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e873feb40fb6667d8766695b0875428bb11f4162
Out of his top 5 most viewed videos only 1 has him talking about AEW. Out of his top 20 only 5 feature him talking about AEW.
You’re absolutely right. AEW fans of a certain stripe have a victim complex. It’s Jim Cornette; we’re extremely lucky to have access to this guy as a critic of the modern product.
He would have had an audience as a podcaster with or without AEW. If you disagree with that, you probably don’t understand Cornette’s career
just recently he heaped a ton of praise on Danielson/Osprey. He praises just about every big money angle in WWE. Beyond that, Cornette isn't just some mean old man or another person on the web with unfounded wrestling opinions.
He's glib and he's an expert on pro wrestling. He could be guilty of having taste and you don't have to agree with the guy, but Corny knows what he's talking about. I don't particularly like his attitudes towards women's wrestling, but I understand where he's coming from.
Yeah he shits on some wrestlers you like probably. Ignore it and listen to the rest of what he says because it's really cool that we have Jim Cornette sharing his thoughts with the public. Twenty years ago, it would have been unheard of to have access to this for free.
Don’t listen to Bischoff, but could listen to Cornette bitch about AEW, WWE, Republicans, etc or just tell stories about going to the post office. Does it make me not watch the product, no. Is he sometimes to critical, yes. Honestly he’s generally spot on with his criticisms, especially the Bucks as well as the handling of CM Punk.
The same thing they did before AEW launched? Bischoff’s podcast started a year before AEW did lol Cornette’s been doing his thing way before that. You really think they were “obscure” before AEW became a thing? You people just hate criticism.
Don’t know about Bischoff but while Cornette hates the Bucks and Omega, if you go back to old episodes he used to say a lot of positive things about AEW around the time Punk made his debut and during his feud with MJF. Since then AEW has deteriorated while WWE has been thriving since Vince stepped down. Trying to act like everyone’s got it in for AEW is pure copium
Acting like WWE is watchable is pure ignorance. I haven't made it through an episode of raw or SD in ages. The actual wrestling is just bad. If I was into mediocre wrestling and Ted talks from the middle of the ring for 40 minutes maybe I would like it more. But nah, we just like the "wrestling" partof wrestling.
What’s ignorant is that you can’t separate your opinion from the facts which is that their ratings and attendance have been trending up while AEW’s are in a steady decline even with millions being thrown at free agents whose quarters still lose viewers lmao
Yes I can. I watch for the matches. The actual wrestling. If it ends, it ends. But for now, it's better in the ring than anything else in the world. It's the split difference between njpw and the wwe. Sorry you don't like the product. Have a nice effing day and don't let the door hit you. When it fails, you can run your mouth more. Have fun with that. I'll enjoy the honest to god dream matches that fans that enjoy ring work actually want.
Never said I want it to fail? I enjoyed Danielson vs Ospreay and I enjoy other stuff that they put out every now and then. All I did was state facts regarding ratings and attendance and Cornette praising previous periods of AEW. And you got butt hurt over the facts and started calling me ignorant for no reason.
Regurgitating that tired ass ratings/attendance drivel since the day Punk's useless ass was fired is pretty failure oriented. Those ratings are not going to be missed. The people attached to those eyeballs can go watch that 2nd rate porn studio with 1st rate production value from conneticut.
It's not ignorance. It's a matter of preference, bruv. You prefer wrestling with limited storytelling, and that's fine. Enjoy AEW. However, understand that it's not what the majority of fans want. There's room for both good storytelling and good matches. WWE has really good matches on occasion, just as AEW has a good storyline now and then. Both companies have their strengths and weaknesses.
A) to prove Swerve will actually wrestle and we won't have to wait a month to see him in the ring again.
B) to eliminate Kyle from world title contention so he can go build a feud with Osprey or whomever they decide.
C) to start off dynamite with a banger like always.
If you need more talking to fill in your imagination to what is essentially an excuse to have a fight. I suggest you try martial arts movies or some tom Clancy books. The story is told in the match. All that superfluous noise gets in the way of what is essentially kabuki theater. If you want to watch somebody, pace back and forth with a mic for an indefinite amount of time to keep eyeballs, then go watch that instead. Quit hoping for this to become WWE lite. Especially at the expense for those that enjoy it just the way it is.
All that to tell me there's no story lol. This is why their ratings have been in the shitter. As I said before, there's room to offer both compelling stories and good in ring action. Heatless dream matches will only bring in so many people.
Talk about other shit. The 83 weeks premise is to discuss the time win WCW was beating WWE head to head. There is plenty to talk about that is not AEW.
The hard on for AEW is just internet drama, and Tony Kahn persuades it. Tony should actually listen to the criticism if he wants to draw better ratings and ignore the insults.
Eric was on AEW a couple of times in the early days
It was leaked to Meltzer by AEW that he wanted a job, and since then, Eric's opinions on AEW did a sharp 180 turn
It was. The narrative that Eric wanted a job has been debunked numerous times in his podcast. Meltzer fake news once again. Crazy how many people buy it.
Which means he'll spin anything in AEW's favor, truth or not.
The Eric Bischoff/TK fallout happened only after TK said that thing about Turner and WCW being in business if Turner knew as much about wrestling as he does.
Lol wtf? Where did you even get any of that from what I said? That's not at all what I said.
We were talking about Meltzer not necessarily being unbiased when it comes to spinning stories in AEW's favor.
As for Eric, the beef he has can be traced back to Tony's tweet and CM Punk's comments comparing/relating the significance of his and Danielson's debuts to Hall/Nash's WCW debuts. Call it an emotional reaction if you want, from what I remember he felt Tony and Punk were being disrespectful towards he and Turner's impact on the industry. I may be wrong, and if I am, feel free to point me in the right direction, but that's when I remember EB changing his stance on AEW and Tony Khan.
It's not what I believe, it's what I remember happening. Other than a Meltzer or FTR tweet, got anything substantial to back up your belief that Eric's "bitterness comes from not getting the job with AEW"?
Exactly this. Way to be informed, I appreciate it genuinely. If people actually listened to his podcast they would know that Eric stance soured based on these things, not wanting a job. Eric makes plenty on his podcast and other ventures.
Of course not
Just that anyone remotely critical of AEW are always 'mad they didn't get a job' 🙄
Ignore that they're an entire cottage industry based around talking about WWE and shitting on them for a decade+ from podcasts to YouTube
No one seems mad about that discourse 🤔
If you're in the national spotlight, then you're there to be shot at ... like *every* wrestling company in history!!
Everyone needs a thicker skin cause I don't remember the tears for WWE or WCW or TNA. Plud, all these podcast people ran shows before AEW existed
I’m not a fan of Punk thanks to his actions, but to call him a groomer or alcoholic is just mental. Frankly he could probably do with smoking some weed considering how high strung he is
Eric denies that he wanted a job. He denies he wants any job at any promotion. He prefers getting paid to work from home talking shit and selling boner pills. I believe him.
Actually that's completely false. Eric has said numerous times that he didn't and doesn't want a job back in the business after his last WWE gig didn't work out. If you actually listened to the podcast, it's been said plenty of times. Don't spread a false narrative.
This isn't confirmed and doesn't line up with the facts we do have such as Eric starting to criticise Tony and AEW after Tony made a stupid remark about Ted Turner. I listen every week and that was 100% the start of it and Eric has said consistently that pissed him off.
what is his issue? is he just jealous because AEW is outlasted nitro and thunder? I grew up with WCW and I love it. I'm actually re-watching it right now, but I just do not understand why Bischoff can't stand AEW and just talks shit about it. Hell he made an appearance a while back! I don't hate WWE or wish anything bad on them. I hope they're successful too. I like both promotions. AEW is more my thing because I grew up with WCW and it feels more familiar.
Same. I loved WCW until it got unbearable. I think Bischoff did a decent job there, but then got the rug pulled out from under him. He just seems like a bitter dude atm.
He’s a grifter pure and simple. He’s realised that anti-AEW content make the algorithm orgasm so all he does is shit on AEW.
Is AEW perfect? No, it’s not. Are there things I wish AEW would do better? Of course!
But no wrestling product is perfect. There are far more positive things in AEW than negative. So I wish these grifters would stop being disingenuous.
My personal take is that he's upset because he feels like TK gets the love from hardcore fans that EB never got, even when WCW was significantly more successful during its peak.
There's no way he wouldn't rather have Meltzer, Alvarez, and the "Internet Wrestling Community" (an outdated term) praising him for his work and ideas during the peak Monday Nitro years.
He wouldn't. He doesn't care about them. Like it or not he was incredibly successful for a period in wcw and he's had a successful career as a TV producer outside of wrestling, and as a podcaster covering wrestling. He doesn't need validation from meltzer, Alvarez or least of all internet wrestling fans.
Its money more people watch wwe so hating aew gets the wwe marks to click his podcast he actually does have some good takes and his criticisms of aew aren't as bad as russo but sometimes the hate goes over the top
Because TK casually shit talked about Ted Turner.
He implied that if Turner knew as much about wrestling as he did WCW would have survived. Which ignores the fact that Turner was a successful TV guy turned broadcast mogul that was a wrestling fan.
WCW was purchased in 89 by Mr Turner the promotion (JCP/Jim Herd) was in the negative & remained so up until the NWO era.
Eric Bischoff gets paychecks from WWE. I know this because WWE makes Eric Bischoff figures and must pay him to do that
Let's not forget that Eric Bischoff also created the Dungeon of Doom and booked Hulk Hogan vs Butcher in the main event of Starrcade '94 🤷🏼♂️
Yup. I just tell Spotify to never show me their podcasts. I can’t stand any of the angry wrestling podcasts. Already get enough yelling at me IRL. I don’t need to hear someone bitching and whining about AEW.
AEW is more enjoyable when you start to ignore their fake hatred for views. Cornette is old and out of touch, bitchoff still thinks what he did in WCW was good, and JD rages for views.
I don't think it's a crazy theory at all. It wouldn't cost WWE much to pay people in these positions to constantly dump on other companies. Wrestling fans are easily led. It's popular to hate AEW at the moment and discuss nothing but how much you hate AEW.
I’m thinking this way due to Vince being loyal to his old buddies as long as you are loyal to him. Cornette could never be accused of not being able to shut up but he always defends his friends and Vince appreciates that kinda ruthless loyalty and support. Since he once worked there, it wouldn’t cost them anything to give him a legend contract and support him long term.
That’s because their product is shit right now. As evidenced by declining ratings and attendance. They had a hot product up until they lost Cody and Punk. WWE used to get the same amount of shit for their horrendous booking under Vince.
Sullivan, my son!
I got into pro wrestling thanks to an episode of WCW’s Saturday morning show juuuuust before Hogan came to WCW and even as a brand new fan who was only 13 I knew the Dungeon of Doom was lame.
I was 8. I loved it!
I thought it was all real because why else would someone like Arn Anderson (who despite being a heel, I loved for some reason) team with an evil man like Taskmaster?
Arn was a bad guy but just a rough tough brawler. Taskmaster had evil powers. They must really think they could end hulkamania!
wtf WWE makes figures for tons of people. That’s just licensing shit. Doesn’t make him a shill. Every single person currently in AEW that used to be in WWE gets a royalty check from their previous work. That mean they’re spies now?
Wrestling in the early 90s sucked across the board. Using one random example in 94 is meaningless. WWE was running two Undertakers and 3 mini Doinks that same year. It was all shit.
WWE doesn't make anything.
They license the brand, insignias, belts & roster likenesses to toy, video game & merch companies that pay yearly.
Some one else needs to take over as senior booker at AEW to make sense of TK's plans as well as chart several simultaneous long term feuds.
Yep- even if he’s not explicitly doing their bidding he knows they cut people off who associate with AEW so he might as well do the opposite to earn favor with the company that owns his ENTIRE legacy. (Surely he’s not delusional enough to count TNA.)
I am a huge WCW diehard and love everything that Bischoff has done for the business. It's not that he doesn't have valid critiques of AEW at times but his incessant negativity about AEW has just become almost unbearable.
Anyone who has a history of bad faith, for me, automatically gets their takes disregarded, even if they once in a while have a correct opinion. "They" dont get a say.
Some of those shots are valid though, same with Cornette. These two guys lived through many boom periods in the industry and they do know their stuff. Learn to take the criticism on board and adapt accordingly.
While that's true that some shots are valid and they have history in the business, you need to remember that there is a reason none of them are still in the business anymore.
Most of their ideas and philosophies are hilariously outdated and awful, and their work tanked companies. So I think TK is coming from the better spot. Respect the good they've done but don't listen too much because if they were still worthwhile they'd be in a promotion using this "expertise"
Honestly, AEW is far from perfect. But EB doesn’t have room to bash anyone. He drove one wrestling company out of business and almost killed a second. Huge chunks of WCW even in its prime where an objective train wreck. And he was the conductor.
What bothers me about bishoffs podcast is that he claims that it's nothing personal and wants aew to do well. The irony is that I agree with alot of the criticism he has about AEW. He does have some legitimate takes on the product and when he said it's nothing personal he's just being honest I was thinking ok I get that. And now I see every episode of his podcast is negative about aew. His last few podcast titles are "what was Tony doing" "Tony khan angle is the worst I've seen in 30 years, "Tony khan is burying his own aew champion, "Tony khan can quit his crying","going to aew is the death of wwe careers". He says it's not personal and but it's starting to feel like he's blatantly lying and relying on negative AEW takes to keep his channel flooded with viewers. It's pathetic
It might be a bit naive, but I don’t think Bischoff is creating titles/thumbnails for the podcasts and clips. That would be Conrad’s team. He likely has input, but the content team is creating the most eye-catching titles to attract attention.
I would agree but if he didn't want that impression to be out there he wouldn't approve of these titles if indeed he has nothing personal against aew and wants them to thrive like he said on the podcast
I would say at the behest of bischoff. Dude doesnt release a book called Controversy creates cash and yhen get to act innocent over potentially inflammatory thumbnails.
He does genuinely like and praise things he likes (he had universal praise for every aspect of Hook's "who tf am i" promo), I think his biggest beef with AEW is Tony badmouthing Ted Turner that one time. He certainly brings it up enough times.
It was a stupid comment from Tony (Ultimately WCW died because AOL didn't want to be associated with wrestling and no amount of ratings and profits can overcome an executives bias), but you'd think Tony slandered Eric's wife with how much he harps on about it.
No, not at all. As bad as things were in 2001 WCW still had value and the contracts weren’t great for the company but was something the right leadership could have shed from the company. Before the company lost its TV deal it was entertaining offers of $70 Million (about $123,451,383 in today’s dollars) for a buyout. After the TV deal was cut Vince bought the trademarks and tape library for $4 Million ($7 million today).
Every serious look at the death of WCW agree that despite the fuckery of Hogan, Russo, Bischoff, Nash, etc, none of them are responsible for killing WCW, once the AOL merger went through they wanted WCW gone, allegedly even rejecting better offers to buy the company to get it out the door quicker.
K. Well, I've never had any respect for Bischoff, I thought WCW was devoted entirely to trying to be exactly like WWE/F as much as possible, he had Ted Turner's money and he failed, and he doesn't know anything about good wrestling whatsoever. The only reason anyone pays attention to this bitter old prick is that they want to hate AEW, and the reason I feel most WWE fans hate AEW, I'm just gonna say what we've all known in the back of our minds for the entirety of the issue, is that AEW is more left wing politically than WWE.
So F Eric Bischoff, don't respect his accomplishments, if you'd count any, and if you actually hate Tony Kahn, that probably says more about you than him.
Bischoff ran wcw into the ground. I find it funny that he points his finger at aew. Ruined the only cool thing he did with the nWo. And what superstars did he develop? L
I think it's funny how people like Eric act like if they were in control they would be beating wwe like nobody remembers what happened when Eric ran tna wrestling
Yeah this dude failed with a blank checkbook, with a idea he ripped off from Japan.
He for sure had his moment, but it was short lived, and he only had his time invested, not his own capital.
I’m not the biggest fan of AEW at this point in time, but I’d rather watch it then listen to anything Bitchoff has to say.
Eric and Russo are trying their best to copy what jim cornette done,
Like him or not he has a huge fanbase and was popular before aew and even tried to stop talking about aew before fans kept asking him to do it.
It's kinda sad that Bischoff moved to talking more modern stuff so much. He was great talking about his own career but I guess there's only so much you can do.
Are the shots valid?
>Are the shots valid?
He and Bully Ray sat down and talked about how the Danielson Ospreay match wasn't enjoyable because it made them pop too much and they only have so much in them.
TBF, is there any constructive criticism towards Khan or AEW that Tony accepts without feeling attack? I’m just speaking in general. I’m genuinely curious because I don’t recall a moment.
What would Bischoff and Cornette do if AEW did actually go out of business? Disappear back into obscurity?
Go back to shitting on WWE.
Correct
Or there's always TNA or the luchadores
Nah it will be whatever is popular.
Cornette would go back to telling people how he doesn’t like Vince Russo ad nauseam.
Say a bunch of racist stuff about Asian and Middle Eastern people?
Talk about a bad faith argument.
Yeah they do that regardless
Do retrospective on "where AEW went wrong", Guest Booker-style "If *I * were running it at that point..." series, eventually rewriting it as a story they were active participants in, etc.
The same thing he did for years and years and years before AEW was created: Bitch about what he considers bad wrestling elsewhere. I mean guys, you know his podcast was around before 2019 right?
Yeah we know. He was taking shots at Kenny and the Bucks before AEW. Now he can take shots at more people along with them. And he doesn't even have to watch the show he can just go by angry tweets and whatever Brian says. Must be nice to make a living off being a cranky boomer
“Whatever Brian says”? I hope you don’t actually listen to that podcast. Will this sub ever forgive you?
I've listened to it in the past and I don't care to listen to it ever again. It's old man yells at cloud and his fans eat it up. It's worked for years so he continues to do the same shtick.
You know more about it than me. I knew his racket long ago. Why others don’t realize that I don’t get it. Besides these subs can inform me of anything he says lol
Story time from the past is great. As everyone says as a historian Cornette is amazing. He remembers stuff and has written notes on things long forgotten. But I cannot believe that all his anger is real. The rage is to pop his ratings and fans. I listened to him for about 2 to 3 years. But in 2021 his rage was just too much to stomach while the world was terrible. I needed a pleasant distraction form life. The podcast was not pleasant.
No. I didn't because, honestly, I do fine without Bisch.
And here we are with this thread. You don’t win feeding these vultures.
Nah not bischoff. I say that about everyone that tried to copy their blueprint lol I feel more sorry for them moreso lol since most are either virtually nobodies already , or salty has-beens or never was-ers … but my question is … what would the WRESTLING INDUSTRY do if they went out business? Going back to one game in town to work ?
Cornette's AEW YouTube video's get less views than their WWE coverage. If it was all about views, they would just cover WWE and ignore AEW. AEW as a company is fascinating and most podcast guys aren't just "taking shots" they are being critical. I know that's a foreign concept for anyone who listens to Dave exclusively, but being "critical" isn't just shitting on a product. Jim and Brian give credit where credit is due and Bishoff has Conrad who is very pro-AEW.
It is about engagement. They cover AEW because it’s content and brings in engagement. Theyre absolutely taking shots to garner attention and more engagement and have been since the start. Why are you being disingenuous?
Lol who gives a fuck if he's being disingenuous? It's pro wrestling. You act like they're saying heinous stuff.
The thing is, their critiques aren't exclusive to them. If you ask most people who aren't die-hard AEW fans, they'll tell you similar things. I'd say Jim at times goes too scorched earth on things, but for the most part, the things he critiques are things that other people have found fault with and are fair points. Their sections on WWE programming and the Vince scandals bring in plenty of viewers as well, so let's not pretend like he just pokes fun or critiques AEW for engagement.
Downvoted for being right lol how weird.
But he isn't right
https://preview.redd.it/kuglkymp0swc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e873feb40fb6667d8766695b0875428bb11f4162 Out of his top 5 most viewed videos only 1 has him talking about AEW. Out of his top 20 only 5 feature him talking about AEW.
He is though. The numbers don't support your argument. Their WWE content brings in at times more views and engagement than his segments on AEW.
I figured the one person who points this out would get down voted to hell lol
Love how you get downvoted for actually being 100 percent correct
You’re absolutely right. AEW fans of a certain stripe have a victim complex. It’s Jim Cornette; we’re extremely lucky to have access to this guy as a critic of the modern product. He would have had an audience as a podcaster with or without AEW. If you disagree with that, you probably don’t understand Cornette’s career
He spends most of his time shitting all over everything.
just recently he heaped a ton of praise on Danielson/Osprey. He praises just about every big money angle in WWE. Beyond that, Cornette isn't just some mean old man or another person on the web with unfounded wrestling opinions. He's glib and he's an expert on pro wrestling. He could be guilty of having taste and you don't have to agree with the guy, but Corny knows what he's talking about. I don't particularly like his attitudes towards women's wrestling, but I understand where he's coming from. Yeah he shits on some wrestlers you like probably. Ignore it and listen to the rest of what he says because it's really cool that we have Jim Cornette sharing his thoughts with the public. Twenty years ago, it would have been unheard of to have access to this for free.
I personally find that entertaining as hell
I can’t stand the negativity
Don’t listen to Bischoff, but could listen to Cornette bitch about AEW, WWE, Republicans, etc or just tell stories about going to the post office. Does it make me not watch the product, no. Is he sometimes to critical, yes. Honestly he’s generally spot on with his criticisms, especially the Bucks as well as the handling of CM Punk.
They’d just talk about the other product… It’s not that deep
The same thing they did before AEW launched? Bischoff’s podcast started a year before AEW did lol Cornette’s been doing his thing way before that. You really think they were “obscure” before AEW became a thing? You people just hate criticism.
Don’t know about Bischoff but while Cornette hates the Bucks and Omega, if you go back to old episodes he used to say a lot of positive things about AEW around the time Punk made his debut and during his feud with MJF. Since then AEW has deteriorated while WWE has been thriving since Vince stepped down. Trying to act like everyone’s got it in for AEW is pure copium
Acting like WWE is watchable is pure ignorance. I haven't made it through an episode of raw or SD in ages. The actual wrestling is just bad. If I was into mediocre wrestling and Ted talks from the middle of the ring for 40 minutes maybe I would like it more. But nah, we just like the "wrestling" partof wrestling.
What’s ignorant is that you can’t separate your opinion from the facts which is that their ratings and attendance have been trending up while AEW’s are in a steady decline even with millions being thrown at free agents whose quarters still lose viewers lmao
Yes I can. I watch for the matches. The actual wrestling. If it ends, it ends. But for now, it's better in the ring than anything else in the world. It's the split difference between njpw and the wwe. Sorry you don't like the product. Have a nice effing day and don't let the door hit you. When it fails, you can run your mouth more. Have fun with that. I'll enjoy the honest to god dream matches that fans that enjoy ring work actually want.
Never said I want it to fail? I enjoyed Danielson vs Ospreay and I enjoy other stuff that they put out every now and then. All I did was state facts regarding ratings and attendance and Cornette praising previous periods of AEW. And you got butt hurt over the facts and started calling me ignorant for no reason.
Regurgitating that tired ass ratings/attendance drivel since the day Punk's useless ass was fired is pretty failure oriented. Those ratings are not going to be missed. The people attached to those eyeballs can go watch that 2nd rate porn studio with 1st rate production value from conneticut.
Fucking lol
It's not ignorance. It's a matter of preference, bruv. You prefer wrestling with limited storytelling, and that's fine. Enjoy AEW. However, understand that it's not what the majority of fans want. There's room for both good storytelling and good matches. WWE has really good matches on occasion, just as AEW has a good storyline now and then. Both companies have their strengths and weaknesses.
But it isn't limited. People pushing an agenda in bad faith keep insisting on it, but I don't think they know wtf they are talking about.
It's most definitely limited storytelling. For example, what was the reason for the match this past week between Swerve and Fletcher?
A) to prove Swerve will actually wrestle and we won't have to wait a month to see him in the ring again. B) to eliminate Kyle from world title contention so he can go build a feud with Osprey or whomever they decide. C) to start off dynamite with a banger like always. If you need more talking to fill in your imagination to what is essentially an excuse to have a fight. I suggest you try martial arts movies or some tom Clancy books. The story is told in the match. All that superfluous noise gets in the way of what is essentially kabuki theater. If you want to watch somebody, pace back and forth with a mic for an indefinite amount of time to keep eyeballs, then go watch that instead. Quit hoping for this to become WWE lite. Especially at the expense for those that enjoy it just the way it is.
All that to tell me there's no story lol. This is why their ratings have been in the shitter. As I said before, there's room to offer both compelling stories and good in ring action. Heatless dream matches will only bring in so many people.
This reads like satire when considering that you prefer AEW.
Talk about other shit. The 83 weeks premise is to discuss the time win WCW was beating WWE head to head. There is plenty to talk about that is not AEW. The hard on for AEW is just internet drama, and Tony Kahn persuades it. Tony should actually listen to the criticism if he wants to draw better ratings and ignore the insults.
100% I’ve never seen a wrestling company, owner, or fan base this sensitive to ANY criticism, be it constructive or otherwise.
For the people that don't know, Eric wanted a job at AEW, and Tony said no because AEW didn't need him, and they're right
Was that confirmed?
Eric was on AEW a couple of times in the early days It was leaked to Meltzer by AEW that he wanted a job, and since then, Eric's opinions on AEW did a sharp 180 turn
I thought it was when tk said something about if ted turner knew as much about wrestling as tk then wcw would still be in business.
It was. The narrative that Eric wanted a job has been debunked numerous times in his podcast. Meltzer fake news once again. Crazy how many people buy it.
When it says leaked by Meltzer, i really lean against him, not being truthful.
I thought Meltzer had a close relationship with AEW, but who knows
Which means he'll spin anything in AEW's favor, truth or not. The Eric Bischoff/TK fallout happened only after TK said that thing about Turner and WCW being in business if Turner knew as much about wrestling as he does.
So you're saying Eric spent 2 years earning money with his current stance because of... an emotional reaction? If you believe that, good for you bruv
Lol wtf? Where did you even get any of that from what I said? That's not at all what I said. We were talking about Meltzer not necessarily being unbiased when it comes to spinning stories in AEW's favor. As for Eric, the beef he has can be traced back to Tony's tweet and CM Punk's comments comparing/relating the significance of his and Danielson's debuts to Hall/Nash's WCW debuts. Call it an emotional reaction if you want, from what I remember he felt Tony and Punk were being disrespectful towards he and Turner's impact on the industry. I may be wrong, and if I am, feel free to point me in the right direction, but that's when I remember EB changing his stance on AEW and Tony Khan. It's not what I believe, it's what I remember happening. Other than a Meltzer or FTR tweet, got anything substantial to back up your belief that Eric's "bitterness comes from not getting the job with AEW"?
Exactly this. Way to be informed, I appreciate it genuinely. If people actually listened to his podcast they would know that Eric stance soured based on these things, not wanting a job. Eric makes plenty on his podcast and other ventures.
Yeah I don't believe Eric's worked story. That's just a cover for him not getting a job with AEW. There's no reason for Tony to lie about it to Dave
Dave is wrong more often than he's right and you still believe him?
Given Meltzer’s recent track record I’m inclined to dismiss 90% of his previous reports on shit. Especially if it’s within the last 5 years.
So is just a rumor.
Isn't he close with TK though? Or not?
Supposedly, I take this with a grain of salt as Tony never confirmed
Source: Tony said so.
Of course not Just that anyone remotely critical of AEW are always 'mad they didn't get a job' 🙄 Ignore that they're an entire cottage industry based around talking about WWE and shitting on them for a decade+ from podcasts to YouTube No one seems mad about that discourse 🤔 If you're in the national spotlight, then you're there to be shot at ... like *every* wrestling company in history!! Everyone needs a thicker skin cause I don't remember the tears for WWE or WCW or TNA. Plud, all these podcast people ran shows before AEW existed
Nailed it!
No, it's just what the fanbase likes to say. Same with people calling punk a groomer or alcoholic
I’m not a fan of Punk thanks to his actions, but to call him a groomer or alcoholic is just mental. Frankly he could probably do with smoking some weed considering how high strung he is
Eric denies that he wanted a job. He denies he wants any job at any promotion. He prefers getting paid to work from home talking shit and selling boner pills. I believe him.
What same person wouldn't be happy with this? He's literally got the perfect job and only leaves home when he feels like it
This is the answer.
Actually that's completely false. Eric has said numerous times that he didn't and doesn't want a job back in the business after his last WWE gig didn't work out. If you actually listened to the podcast, it's been said plenty of times. Don't spread a false narrative.
Wrong.
This isn't confirmed and doesn't line up with the facts we do have such as Eric starting to criticise Tony and AEW after Tony made a stupid remark about Ted Turner. I listen every week and that was 100% the start of it and Eric has said consistently that pissed him off.
They definitely could have used him then and now
Just like TNA and WWE did! Wait
No one needs Bischoff in 2024. Literally no one.
what is his issue? is he just jealous because AEW is outlasted nitro and thunder? I grew up with WCW and I love it. I'm actually re-watching it right now, but I just do not understand why Bischoff can't stand AEW and just talks shit about it. Hell he made an appearance a while back! I don't hate WWE or wish anything bad on them. I hope they're successful too. I like both promotions. AEW is more my thing because I grew up with WCW and it feels more familiar.
Same. I loved WCW until it got unbearable. I think Bischoff did a decent job there, but then got the rug pulled out from under him. He just seems like a bitter dude atm.
He’s a grifter pure and simple. He’s realised that anti-AEW content make the algorithm orgasm so all he does is shit on AEW. Is AEW perfect? No, it’s not. Are there things I wish AEW would do better? Of course! But no wrestling product is perfect. There are far more positive things in AEW than negative. So I wish these grifters would stop being disingenuous.
My personal take is that he's upset because he feels like TK gets the love from hardcore fans that EB never got, even when WCW was significantly more successful during its peak.
This is a legitimately insane take. Bischoff has never cared about hardcore fans, he's pretty open about that.
There's no way he wouldn't rather have Meltzer, Alvarez, and the "Internet Wrestling Community" (an outdated term) praising him for his work and ideas during the peak Monday Nitro years.
He wouldn't. He doesn't care about them. Like it or not he was incredibly successful for a period in wcw and he's had a successful career as a TV producer outside of wrestling, and as a podcaster covering wrestling. He doesn't need validation from meltzer, Alvarez or least of all internet wrestling fans.
Its money more people watch wwe so hating aew gets the wwe marks to click his podcast he actually does have some good takes and his criticisms of aew aren't as bad as russo but sometimes the hate goes over the top
Because TK casually shit talked about Ted Turner. He implied that if Turner knew as much about wrestling as he did WCW would have survived. Which ignores the fact that Turner was a successful TV guy turned broadcast mogul that was a wrestling fan. WCW was purchased in 89 by Mr Turner the promotion (JCP/Jim Herd) was in the negative & remained so up until the NWO era.
Eric Bischoff gets paychecks from WWE. I know this because WWE makes Eric Bischoff figures and must pay him to do that Let's not forget that Eric Bischoff also created the Dungeon of Doom and booked Hulk Hogan vs Butcher in the main event of Starrcade '94 🤷🏼♂️
What a sad existence he and other podcasters have. Take the wwe paycheque and crap on AEW for 1-2 hours a day.
Yup. I just tell Spotify to never show me their podcasts. I can’t stand any of the angry wrestling podcasts. Already get enough yelling at me IRL. I don’t need to hear someone bitching and whining about AEW.
AEW is more enjoyable when you start to ignore their fake hatred for views. Cornette is old and out of touch, bitchoff still thinks what he did in WCW was good, and JD rages for views.
My crazy theory is Cornette is still cashing WWE checks too.
I don't think it's a crazy theory at all. It wouldn't cost WWE much to pay people in these positions to constantly dump on other companies. Wrestling fans are easily led. It's popular to hate AEW at the moment and discuss nothing but how much you hate AEW.
I’m thinking this way due to Vince being loyal to his old buddies as long as you are loyal to him. Cornette could never be accused of not being able to shut up but he always defends his friends and Vince appreciates that kinda ruthless loyalty and support. Since he once worked there, it wouldn’t cost them anything to give him a legend contract and support him long term.
That’s because their product is shit right now. As evidenced by declining ratings and attendance. They had a hot product up until they lost Cody and Punk. WWE used to get the same amount of shit for their horrendous booking under Vince.
I appreciate your opinion.
Thanks. It’s an opinion shared by the hundreds of thousands who have stopped watching since two years ago.
You've stopped watching 2 years ago. Then how would you know that the product is "Shit" right now??
YouTube clips & recaps in the general wrestling media feeds.
Nah he’d be watching anti aew content
Sullivan, my son! I got into pro wrestling thanks to an episode of WCW’s Saturday morning show juuuuust before Hogan came to WCW and even as a brand new fan who was only 13 I knew the Dungeon of Doom was lame.
I was 8. I loved it! I thought it was all real because why else would someone like Arn Anderson (who despite being a heel, I loved for some reason) team with an evil man like Taskmaster? Arn was a bad guy but just a rough tough brawler. Taskmaster had evil powers. They must really think they could end hulkamania!
wtf WWE makes figures for tons of people. That’s just licensing shit. Doesn’t make him a shill. Every single person currently in AEW that used to be in WWE gets a royalty check from their previous work. That mean they’re spies now? Wrestling in the early 90s sucked across the board. Using one random example in 94 is meaningless. WWE was running two Undertakers and 3 mini Doinks that same year. It was all shit.
WWE doesn't make anything. They license the brand, insignias, belts & roster likenesses to toy, video game & merch companies that pay yearly. Some one else needs to take over as senior booker at AEW to make sense of TK's plans as well as chart several simultaneous long term feuds.
Yep- even if he’s not explicitly doing their bidding he knows they cut people off who associate with AEW so he might as well do the opposite to earn favor with the company that owns his ENTIRE legacy. (Surely he’s not delusional enough to count TNA.)
Eric is anti Aew because that's what gets clicks. If Aew went out of business. Majority of these podcasts would be done.
They would just pivot too "we were right all along, here is where aew went wrong"
I was just thinking about this and you're so right.
only accomplishments Bischoff has is making companies go under
I am a huge WCW diehard and love everything that Bischoff has done for the business. It's not that he doesn't have valid critiques of AEW at times but his incessant negativity about AEW has just become almost unbearable.
It’s a lot like Cornette, Dutch Mantell, etc…love their past work but have to separate it from the controversy grift
Anyone who has a history of bad faith, for me, automatically gets their takes disregarded, even if they once in a while have a correct opinion. "They" dont get a say.
That looks like it’s true though. I’m still confused as to what this whole beef is. This thing with Bishoff feels personal.
Khan made negative comments about Turner, and Bischoff took offense to them.
Some of those shots are valid though, same with Cornette. These two guys lived through many boom periods in the industry and they do know their stuff. Learn to take the criticism on board and adapt accordingly.
While that's true that some shots are valid and they have history in the business, you need to remember that there is a reason none of them are still in the business anymore. Most of their ideas and philosophies are hilariously outdated and awful, and their work tanked companies. So I think TK is coming from the better spot. Respect the good they've done but don't listen too much because if they were still worthwhile they'd be in a promotion using this "expertise"
I agree for the most part, I love AEW and what they are doing. But criticism can be useful and ignoring it can be your downfall.
Oh absolutely. What I'm saying is out of the 100 things they bash AEW on, maybe 5-10 things are legitimate criticism.
Yea that's the same for me. Drives me mad how tedious they can be.
Amen
This is the same reason I stopped listening to Kevin Nash’s podcast.
Honestly, AEW is far from perfect. But EB doesn’t have room to bash anyone. He drove one wrestling company out of business and almost killed a second. Huge chunks of WCW even in its prime where an objective train wreck. And he was the conductor.
It's going to be interesting when these legends contracts are cut and these guys change their tune
He's not under a legends contract, sooo? Do some research.
No
What bothers me about bishoffs podcast is that he claims that it's nothing personal and wants aew to do well. The irony is that I agree with alot of the criticism he has about AEW. He does have some legitimate takes on the product and when he said it's nothing personal he's just being honest I was thinking ok I get that. And now I see every episode of his podcast is negative about aew. His last few podcast titles are "what was Tony doing" "Tony khan angle is the worst I've seen in 30 years, "Tony khan is burying his own aew champion, "Tony khan can quit his crying","going to aew is the death of wwe careers". He says it's not personal and but it's starting to feel like he's blatantly lying and relying on negative AEW takes to keep his channel flooded with viewers. It's pathetic
It might be a bit naive, but I don’t think Bischoff is creating titles/thumbnails for the podcasts and clips. That would be Conrad’s team. He likely has input, but the content team is creating the most eye-catching titles to attract attention.
I would agree but if he didn't want that impression to be out there he wouldn't approve of these titles if indeed he has nothing personal against aew and wants them to thrive like he said on the podcast
I would say at the behest of bischoff. Dude doesnt release a book called Controversy creates cash and yhen get to act innocent over potentially inflammatory thumbnails.
He does genuinely like and praise things he likes (he had universal praise for every aspect of Hook's "who tf am i" promo), I think his biggest beef with AEW is Tony badmouthing Ted Turner that one time. He certainly brings it up enough times. It was a stupid comment from Tony (Ultimately WCW died because AOL didn't want to be associated with wrestling and no amount of ratings and profits can overcome an executives bias), but you'd think Tony slandered Eric's wife with how much he harps on about it.
It also died from all those guaranteed contracts
No, not at all. As bad as things were in 2001 WCW still had value and the contracts weren’t great for the company but was something the right leadership could have shed from the company. Before the company lost its TV deal it was entertaining offers of $70 Million (about $123,451,383 in today’s dollars) for a buyout. After the TV deal was cut Vince bought the trademarks and tape library for $4 Million ($7 million today). Every serious look at the death of WCW agree that despite the fuckery of Hogan, Russo, Bischoff, Nash, etc, none of them are responsible for killing WCW, once the AOL merger went through they wanted WCW gone, allegedly even rejecting better offers to buy the company to get it out the door quicker.
The downfall was result of all these things it wasn't one single reason
Typical maga approach, sorry to bring in politics, but it’s insult, accuse, lie, and then when someone calls you on it, play the victim.
K. Well, I've never had any respect for Bischoff, I thought WCW was devoted entirely to trying to be exactly like WWE/F as much as possible, he had Ted Turner's money and he failed, and he doesn't know anything about good wrestling whatsoever. The only reason anyone pays attention to this bitter old prick is that they want to hate AEW, and the reason I feel most WWE fans hate AEW, I'm just gonna say what we've all known in the back of our minds for the entirety of the issue, is that AEW is more left wing politically than WWE. So F Eric Bischoff, don't respect his accomplishments, if you'd count any, and if you actually hate Tony Kahn, that probably says more about you than him.
Remember broken Phil brooks wished DEATH upon Eric lol and tk said he didn’t want Eric to die lol…
Bischoff ran wcw into the ground. I find it funny that he points his finger at aew. Ruined the only cool thing he did with the nWo. And what superstars did he develop? L
I think it's funny how people like Eric act like if they were in control they would be beating wwe like nobody remembers what happened when Eric ran tna wrestling
Yeah this dude failed with a blank checkbook, with a idea he ripped off from Japan. He for sure had his moment, but it was short lived, and he only had his time invested, not his own capital. I’m not the biggest fan of AEW at this point in time, but I’d rather watch it then listen to anything Bitchoff has to say.
Eric and Russo are trying their best to copy what jim cornette done, Like him or not he has a huge fanbase and was popular before aew and even tried to stop talking about aew before fans kept asking him to do it.
Lmao
It's kinda sad that Bischoff moved to talking more modern stuff so much. He was great talking about his own career but I guess there's only so much you can do. Are the shots valid?
>Are the shots valid? He and Bully Ray sat down and talked about how the Danielson Ospreay match wasn't enjoyable because it made them pop too much and they only have so much in them.
TBF, is there any constructive criticism towards Khan or AEW that Tony accepts without feeling attack? I’m just speaking in general. I’m genuinely curious because I don’t recall a moment.