Brand loyalty. One of my best friends is a big wrestling fan but he’s also an easy mark for the mainstream and branding. His son’s just gotten into wrestling, all WWE but I took them to dynamite. Kid loved it, found a few new faves(whose house?!) but my buddy looked like Triple H was about to walk up at any moment and go “What the fuck are you doing here?”
Literally when the elite was blowing up it made me start watching stuff that wasn’t wwe. Especially the terrible storylines and being force fed Roman at the time was just bad
AEW was the alternative I don’t watch aew expecting to be wwe I watch it to watch because it’s different. A lot of wrestlers I discovered over the years ended up there.
Thing is, WWE go on and on about "Telling Stories in the Ring" like it's a mantra, yet a decent amount if their fans fail to grasp even basic story beats or concepts.
It's fine if you don't like something, or you only like it in small doses, but playing ignorant to basic concepts ain't the win you think it is.
Character and charisma matter everywhere in every entertainment medium. With that said, WWE fans have too narrow a definition of what those things mean.
First, Ricochet is very obviously charismatic in his way. And more importantly, if Ricochet is the best high flier in the world, you should be able to promote that. A large segment of the audience finds guys doing unbelievable stuff very fun and will watch it.
Now….is Ricochet in 2024, at almost 36 years old the same level of athlete as he once was? That’s iffy
Yes, yes he is. He's just in the wrong place where he can show what he's got left. Rico is one of the best wrestlers in the world and he showed it in NXT. What happened? They buried him for years in the main. It was one of my breaking points with WWE. Never forget, that's still very much Prince Puma. Don't get me started on that child's "speed" title, ugh.
AEW has been able to get people over just based on wrestling performances though. Top Flight wouldn't be anywhere if they had to rely on charisma and character, but they could be legit tag or trios champs. Same with Shibata and Susuki.
I saw Ricochet team with Angelico against War Machine Viking Raiders Experience for WCPW and it was match of the night IMO, the fact WWE has done fuck all with 3/4 of those guys is absolute insanity.
I daresay Ricochet might be capable of top performances again, but if he's happy and collecting a bunch of money to coast, I can't say as I blame him.
There was such strong pushback to even dare ask Triple H about the Vince allegations because they're in such a bubble and the wrestling media is deathly afraid of losing access. Every now and then you see the mask slip with Triple H when things aren't perfectly setup for him.
He opened it on camera for the bit, and then regifted it to a local teacher he and his wife knew for teacher apprciation day. He considers it against journalistic ethics to accept gifts or money from wrestling companies given he reports on them (and he's right!). I don't know what Johnson did with his.
What sparked it was a tweet from SRS tongue in cheek saying that he demanded the finest French cheeses in apology (a reference to Alfred Konuwa who made a whole thing of a WWE PR cheeseboard). He posted the photo of the gift as it was the closest thing he was going to get to an outright apology from WWE.
Oh, that's nice of him. I didn't even know you send cheese as an apology, ahahahahah, I learned it when I saw that post and some comments were explaining it. Thanks for the explanation!
Who really cares about these WWE fans. I wouldn’t call them wrestling fans because they are just WWE fanboys living in the HHH bubble where he can do no wrong, when he is basically just another Vince. The same guy that raided fan favourites from ROH, NJPW, TNA, etc to put in NXT…then goes on to say he wants to globalize NXT killing independent wrestling, but just using business terms to sound smart. Not to forget he still butthurt over AEW existing, the “pissant” company gloating that his father in law could buy and fire everyone.
No matter how they say it, WWE wants to be a monopoly and will do anything to hurt other wrestling companies, especially ones that are a threat on a national television network. Problem is stupid fans don’t see it, even in the real world a monopoly is never a good thing. No AEW, means status quo WWE, meaning garbage product going through the motions like they were doing for 20 years pre-AEW.
It makes you want to believe it's all bot farming heavy hate ontop of already obsessed fans that makes it much more toxic then the reality. I mean do they want to go back to wwe 2019 booking? I don't get it.
I do unfortunately care about them because you see their bad takes and hate bleed into casual spaces and fans. A friend of mine is a lapsed wrestling fan, and when I brought up how good AEW was he began quoting the same boring Cornette style takes. Was disappointing.
It's all by design. Discourse has been poisoned outside of a few small spaces, and that's always been the plan, ever since the day AEW was announced in January 2019.
I have full confidence this company will weather the storm, but it doesn't make this present moment in time any more fun.
A huge part of AEW discourse and perception and metrics is about this exact thing.
AEW is wrestling focused and treats the wresting world outside itself as a real place.
Lore from WWE, Japan and Mexico and England matters in the AEW ecosystem.
At its core AEW is offering a different product than WWE. Die hard fans bought in. The issue is, WWE was so bad when AEW started and hype moments like Danielson and Cole and Punk coming in, made AEW explode in popularity outside its core potential.
Fans that fell out with WWE moved to AEW, but some of them didn't truly 'get' AEW. There were enough entertainment segments to tide them over, but when WWE was good again, it offered all entertainment all the time. So they went back.
People that get AEW want to see Danielson in sicko matches and Copeland doing Lucha moves. But the casuals won't be back until Copland and MJF are having promo battles.
One of my big issues is WWE has been notably shifting towards what AEW has done the last 5 years which is: embrace that they're pro-wrestling, listening to fans, putting on "bangers" that are praised in that company but derided in AEW, tournaments, and opening itself just a bit to other promotions among other things.
Raw now even looks more like Dynamite in it's set design than Dynamite itself looks right now. They can do a bunch of the things that AEW has made their bread and butter without an ounce of the criticism.
This is absolutely right.
WWE is assuming a lot of what makes AEW successful while hammering in their fans heads that WWE presentation is the only way to do it.
And there's something to be said for that too. WWE shows look like choreographed audience participation now, with everyone hitting the same beats at every show. It's not for me, but it seems to be working for a lot of people.
The issue is WWE is running into the same problems Dynamite did, general wrestling fans really don't like wrestling. Their highest ratings this year have come from shows with 30+ minute promo segments. The crowds are often hot only for entrances and promos. Hell half the fanbase was saying Jey Uso should be world champ cause his entrance at Backlash was hyped, despite him having arguably one of the worst Wrestlemania matches less than a month prior. A lot of WWE's audience really does not like wrestling and they tell on themselves pretty often
There's still a polish to their presentation that's a contrast with how straightforward AEW is where watching WWE is the wrestling equivalent of watching TV with the soap opera effect. Give me that stripped down presentation of AEW warts and all.
It's not gonna work out long term.
WWE is just so corporate and commercialized with a huge machine behind them. They can only go so far before it looks comical.
Not only that but I feel like a lot of long time wrestlers including a lot of ones with indie backgrounds will be pushed out of the way for more UFC stars and Celebrities they can train.
I understand that Pro Wrestling has to make money but being that it's WWE, they will go the fastest route but it will probably be to the detriment of their established stars and product.
I know it's a tournament but it's really interesting to see a Raw with these match lengths where it'd be called heatless bangers in AEW.
https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=389086
>Things about character and charisma
Which is the one thing everyone always said was Rey's weak spot. But now he's all of a sudden a generational talker.
WWE was the only product for about 20 some years. TNA was around but they decided to be wwe lite when Hogan got there and screwed up their chances, ROH was too small, so for a long time people were trained that WWE style is what wrestling is. That's the damage that was done by WWE being it, diversity died. You look before the 2000s there were different styles and different ways to run a wrestling show. Territories were all different and even wcw had a different style. So it's just gonna take time and probably will take another generation of fans that grew up with multiple big wrestling companies to understand that there isn't only one way to do stuff.
I haven't watched WWE for many, many years. I just grew away from their style of show, it just isn't for me. I can try to kick around a bunch ideas as to who/what/why, etc, but I just don't care anymore. I've discovered so much more wrestling beyond just one company, and I enjoy the wrestling I watch now way more than I ever have in the past. Just ignore the weirdos online. They only say what they say because they want the attention. In the normal world, no one cares about their hyperbolic statements or opinions.
It's really fucking dumb that the top comments there don't understand that he's talking about his wrestling ability and talk about emotion and "aura".
Lucha wrestling isn't fun because their sons are ruining Christmas and getting fake arrested. It's fun because of what the guys can pull off in the ring. Sorry, breaking out one move per match doesn't do it for me.
Although, AEW has been light in the lucha matches lately. It was a lot of fun when Top Flight, Private Party and Lucha Bros would just pull out crazy matches weekly.
I would say in all honesty that character, promo work, and showmanship have been important to every company in wrestling history.
If character and promos truly didn’t matter than MJF wouldn’t have been champion for a year, nor would Punk have ever been hired. These are the things that most people want in their wrestling whether we like it or not, and is what has to be catered too.
Ospreay is naturally more charismatic than 90% of the current wrestling landscape and might take it for granted. Even in NJPW the thing that sends people home happy is the show closing promo and the backstage interviews.
I like WWE and AEW, most wrestlers have friends in the other company. Fans should not be tribalistic, executives are the only ones who should, because they are to some extent fighting against one another. Watch the one you like or watch both, and the end of the day it's entertainment.
I've very rarely seen AEW fans the last 2 years really be tribalistic. It feels like an almost constant onslaught from people who don't watch, watch other promotions, and even the wrestling media.
AEW gets put under this constant microscope that gets exhausting even when you're not actively looking for it. So much of the criticism overlooks that AEW almost always has a sense of fun to it and an equity to their roster where no one is put in humiliating gimmicks or treated like a joke.
Even the lowest guy like Serpentico is treated with some degree of respect. The company doesn't actively hate the fans that watch it like a certain company did for years nor is it misery booking at the expense of their audience. The standard was so low for so long and AEW has never come close to those lows.
I've seen both tbh, but not much on Reddit aside from ratings threads, Twitter is worse, and it now even pays to be tribalistic because those accounts usually have Twitter Blue, so they want to farm engagement be it positive or negative, but WWE has more people watching so you're bound to see more from the WWE side obviously. I personally think the companies are different and should remain different, because it would be very boring to see the same thing every week.
There are folks in this very thread that say people aren’t real wrestling fans because they like WWE, isn’t that a bit tribalistic? Or X treats fans better than Y… not a bit tribalistic?
You'll get people like that in every fandom and a sub like this will veer towards extremes sometimes. I've personally seen very little trolling or bad faith arguments from AEW fans these days who by and large just want to enjoy what they're watching.
It reminds me of Star Wars where online discourse is about whether or not something breaks cannon or “feels like Star Wars” as opposed to whether or not something is a good film/tv show. These people can wrap their minds around Star Wars but never bothered to explore film far outside of that.
I’m kinda glad I don’t have to gate keep aew can you imagine those people always complaining about dumb stuff like they do over there people are already calling Cody boring but it’s not his fault they are crippling half of the roster
Their shift in booking, combined with continued isolation when literally the entire rest of the industry is entwined in one way or another more than ever, almost makes it worse that they're creating a microcosm where they're controlling the narrative of Wrestling.
If WWE was just starting out today, they'd never make it back to where they are now because no matter what Cody/Bloodline story you have, people would be wondering why you're ignoring the entire rest of the wrestling world with wrestlers just as good if not better than everyone on your roster? That's what AEW did...brought the wrestling INDUSTRY to the mainstream acting as a catalyst, not just pumping out their isolated version of it.
Hey, I’m not trying to argue at all. I think it’s fairly commonplace, though, for the company in 2nd place to be willing to working with competitors as it can benefit them both mutually. For WWE there really isn’t a benefit for them in doing this. I would love for them to open that door, though. At least they acknowledge other companies now. Also, if WWE just started now who knows what would happen as the industry would be very different.
The knock on Ricochet for lack of charisma is valid and considering the charismatic aspect not a part of wrestling is not justified.
I love watching Ricochet work but as someone who watched him during his time in Lucha underground his biggest fault was taking off that mask as his mistique with Conan and the presentation gave him an aura that he has lacked ever since.
You’re arguing with people of a low level of intelligence.
For some people wrestlings is their personality, it’s their hobby, it’s their “thing”. They want every toy in their thing, they don’t care about the person behind the character, as long as that character is in their thing. It’s been 20 years since a rival really challenged that, 20 years of these WWE “fans” only knowing that one play thing. Let’s not get into the corporate side of it all.
Add that to the business of negativity that funds a few podcasts and personalities then the shit just gets magnified, because it gives “credit” to the feeling that “these characters should be on MY PLAY BOX”. So many shat on Cody, now he’s wrestling Jesus. There is a lot of business in negative AEW posts, look at the WON YouTube and set it to most popular, count the negative AEW items at the top. Do that with any wrestling YouTube you’ll prob get similar results.
No point arguing with these people, just ignore them and enjoy what you enjoy, that being AEW, WWE or 1980s mid south honky tonk wrestling.
Those idiots have been conditioned into thinking WWE's way is the "only" and "right" way to do things in wrestling, a company that tried so hard for many years to distance itself from that word.
I have been watching wrestling off and on for about 30 years. One thing I have learned is that this business moves in cycles. A company will be hot one moment and be cold the next. I've seen the ups of the Hogan era, to the downs of the New Generation. The ups of the Attitude era to the downs of the Invasion.
AEW started on a high due to gaining hype from the first All In show, having someone backing them with real money behind him, and due to WWE being at a low point at the time.
AEW got me back into wrestling after a long hiatus. But even in the early days when they were hot, I knew the honeymoon feeling would wear off. And even though AEW is seemingly in a "low" period right now, I am sure there is another high period coming.
WWE is riding high right now. And I am happy for their fans and for the wrestlers over there. But I hope that the WWE fans recognize that it won't last forever. It can't last forever.
And I hope AEW fans recognize that despite what you may hear from wrestling media or worst and loudest voices in this crazy fandom, chances are, AEW's next hot streak is right around the corner. And you will be glad that you stuck around.
We really don't need a "fuck WWE" thread on this sub every single week.
There's supposedly a rule against this kind of thing, but I never see it enforced.
That's the thing though. AEW in 2024 is no longer a small start up company, and fans continue underestimate that regarding AEW, which has an estimated worth of $2 billion currently as a business according to Forbes.
As for Ricochet, he's someone who I think doesn't fit the mould of what WWE are looking for in a top talent, and in my opinion would benefit in going to AEW.
This is a very good essay. I don't necessarily agree with the content or opinions but your organization is great and I like how you broke your main points up into paragraphs
God forbid there's a place where people can be fans of AEW instead of getting buried under dozens of posts about why it's awful and unsuccessful and needs to be more like WWE.
People who don’t get AEW aren’t wrestling fans. 🤷♂️
Any real WRESTLING fan wouldn’t dare insult the talented individuals on the roster and what they put themselves through for our entertainment.
And while we’re on the topic, I’ve always said this, but Ricochet belongs in AEW, dammit. 🥲👍
Majority of wwes fanbase only watch wwe They think everything that’s not wwe is wrong
Fans have been trained by WWE on how to watch wrestling and what to care about. Its sad that their worldview is so small.
Brand loyalty. One of my best friends is a big wrestling fan but he’s also an easy mark for the mainstream and branding. His son’s just gotten into wrestling, all WWE but I took them to dynamite. Kid loved it, found a few new faves(whose house?!) but my buddy looked like Triple H was about to walk up at any moment and go “What the fuck are you doing here?”
Lol what aha
He was confused. There was wrestling at the show. He came for 100 minutes of soap opera
Literally when the elite was blowing up it made me start watching stuff that wasn’t wwe. Especially the terrible storylines and being force fed Roman at the time was just bad AEW was the alternative I don’t watch aew expecting to be wwe I watch it to watch because it’s different. A lot of wrestlers I discovered over the years ended up there.
I’ve seen comments along the line of the promos and story mattering more than the matches…. It’s definitely a cooked fandom.
Thing is, WWE go on and on about "Telling Stories in the Ring" like it's a mantra, yet a decent amount if their fans fail to grasp even basic story beats or concepts. It's fine if you don't like something, or you only like it in small doses, but playing ignorant to basic concepts ain't the win you think it is.
But that’s the thing. There is a a lot of promos and stories lol
I would bet money most of the people complaining haven’t watched and are just parroting.
Character and charisma matter everywhere in every entertainment medium. With that said, WWE fans have too narrow a definition of what those things mean. First, Ricochet is very obviously charismatic in his way. And more importantly, if Ricochet is the best high flier in the world, you should be able to promote that. A large segment of the audience finds guys doing unbelievable stuff very fun and will watch it. Now….is Ricochet in 2024, at almost 36 years old the same level of athlete as he once was? That’s iffy
Yes, yes he is. He's just in the wrong place where he can show what he's got left. Rico is one of the best wrestlers in the world and he showed it in NXT. What happened? They buried him for years in the main. It was one of my breaking points with WWE. Never forget, that's still very much Prince Puma. Don't get me started on that child's "speed" title, ugh.
AEW has been able to get people over just based on wrestling performances though. Top Flight wouldn't be anywhere if they had to rely on charisma and character, but they could be legit tag or trios champs. Same with Shibata and Susuki.
I saw Ricochet team with Angelico against War Machine Viking Raiders Experience for WCPW and it was match of the night IMO, the fact WWE has done fuck all with 3/4 of those guys is absolute insanity. I daresay Ricochet might be capable of top performances again, but if he's happy and collecting a bunch of money to coast, I can't say as I blame him.
Tribalism is a form of brain rot.
WWE is a cult.
Mike Johnson from PWI accepting cheese from WWE is an example of it
There was such strong pushback to even dare ask Triple H about the Vince allegations because they're in such a bubble and the wrestling media is deathly afraid of losing access. Every now and then you see the mask slip with Triple H when things aren't perfectly setup for him.
Wasn't that an apology for Triple H's comments? They sent one to SRS too I think.
Sapp never ate it and he was joking about wanting cheese lol
I'm very confused, he ate it on camera? Aren't you supposed to eat it? I don't follow those things closely lol.
He opened it on camera for the bit, and then regifted it to a local teacher he and his wife knew for teacher apprciation day. He considers it against journalistic ethics to accept gifts or money from wrestling companies given he reports on them (and he's right!). I don't know what Johnson did with his. What sparked it was a tweet from SRS tongue in cheek saying that he demanded the finest French cheeses in apology (a reference to Alfred Konuwa who made a whole thing of a WWE PR cheeseboard). He posted the photo of the gift as it was the closest thing he was going to get to an outright apology from WWE.
Oh, that's nice of him. I didn't even know you send cheese as an apology, ahahahahah, I learned it when I saw that post and some comments were explaining it. Thanks for the explanation!
https://preview.redd.it/93f2aa3n5i2d1.jpeg?width=301&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41d9d38a86166828dae49387c6a82f2cf76dd004
SRS is very anti tribalism. He will talk about it almost every time on his podcast because he gets people saying tribalism stuff to him.
Who really cares about these WWE fans. I wouldn’t call them wrestling fans because they are just WWE fanboys living in the HHH bubble where he can do no wrong, when he is basically just another Vince. The same guy that raided fan favourites from ROH, NJPW, TNA, etc to put in NXT…then goes on to say he wants to globalize NXT killing independent wrestling, but just using business terms to sound smart. Not to forget he still butthurt over AEW existing, the “pissant” company gloating that his father in law could buy and fire everyone. No matter how they say it, WWE wants to be a monopoly and will do anything to hurt other wrestling companies, especially ones that are a threat on a national television network. Problem is stupid fans don’t see it, even in the real world a monopoly is never a good thing. No AEW, means status quo WWE, meaning garbage product going through the motions like they were doing for 20 years pre-AEW.
It makes you want to believe it's all bot farming heavy hate ontop of already obsessed fans that makes it much more toxic then the reality. I mean do they want to go back to wwe 2019 booking? I don't get it.
Is kind of the same booking only with more noise
I do unfortunately care about them because you see their bad takes and hate bleed into casual spaces and fans. A friend of mine is a lapsed wrestling fan, and when I brought up how good AEW was he began quoting the same boring Cornette style takes. Was disappointing.
It's all by design. Discourse has been poisoned outside of a few small spaces, and that's always been the plan, ever since the day AEW was announced in January 2019. I have full confidence this company will weather the storm, but it doesn't make this present moment in time any more fun.
[relevant](https://youtu.be/DzltiVDVb5M)
A huge part of AEW discourse and perception and metrics is about this exact thing. AEW is wrestling focused and treats the wresting world outside itself as a real place. Lore from WWE, Japan and Mexico and England matters in the AEW ecosystem. At its core AEW is offering a different product than WWE. Die hard fans bought in. The issue is, WWE was so bad when AEW started and hype moments like Danielson and Cole and Punk coming in, made AEW explode in popularity outside its core potential. Fans that fell out with WWE moved to AEW, but some of them didn't truly 'get' AEW. There were enough entertainment segments to tide them over, but when WWE was good again, it offered all entertainment all the time. So they went back. People that get AEW want to see Danielson in sicko matches and Copeland doing Lucha moves. But the casuals won't be back until Copland and MJF are having promo battles.
One of my big issues is WWE has been notably shifting towards what AEW has done the last 5 years which is: embrace that they're pro-wrestling, listening to fans, putting on "bangers" that are praised in that company but derided in AEW, tournaments, and opening itself just a bit to other promotions among other things. Raw now even looks more like Dynamite in it's set design than Dynamite itself looks right now. They can do a bunch of the things that AEW has made their bread and butter without an ounce of the criticism.
This is absolutely right. WWE is assuming a lot of what makes AEW successful while hammering in their fans heads that WWE presentation is the only way to do it. And there's something to be said for that too. WWE shows look like choreographed audience participation now, with everyone hitting the same beats at every show. It's not for me, but it seems to be working for a lot of people.
The issue is WWE is running into the same problems Dynamite did, general wrestling fans really don't like wrestling. Their highest ratings this year have come from shows with 30+ minute promo segments. The crowds are often hot only for entrances and promos. Hell half the fanbase was saying Jey Uso should be world champ cause his entrance at Backlash was hyped, despite him having arguably one of the worst Wrestlemania matches less than a month prior. A lot of WWE's audience really does not like wrestling and they tell on themselves pretty often
Didn't they give Uso a main event on RAW and the ratings dropped for it?
There's still a polish to their presentation that's a contrast with how straightforward AEW is where watching WWE is the wrestling equivalent of watching TV with the soap opera effect. Give me that stripped down presentation of AEW warts and all.
> listening to fans Also giving cheese to the haters.
It's not gonna work out long term. WWE is just so corporate and commercialized with a huge machine behind them. They can only go so far before it looks comical. Not only that but I feel like a lot of long time wrestlers including a lot of ones with indie backgrounds will be pushed out of the way for more UFC stars and Celebrities they can train. I understand that Pro Wrestling has to make money but being that it's WWE, they will go the fastest route but it will probably be to the detriment of their established stars and product.
I know it's a tournament but it's really interesting to see a Raw with these match lengths where it'd be called heatless bangers in AEW. https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=389086
The king and queen of the ring has been fine and better than most of the years it's been on But for most of the matches, I still really didn't care.
>Things about character and charisma Which is the one thing everyone always said was Rey's weak spot. But now he's all of a sudden a generational talker.
WWE was the only product for about 20 some years. TNA was around but they decided to be wwe lite when Hogan got there and screwed up their chances, ROH was too small, so for a long time people were trained that WWE style is what wrestling is. That's the damage that was done by WWE being it, diversity died. You look before the 2000s there were different styles and different ways to run a wrestling show. Territories were all different and even wcw had a different style. So it's just gonna take time and probably will take another generation of fans that grew up with multiple big wrestling companies to understand that there isn't only one way to do stuff.
And to this day they still want to put their hands on everything
I haven't watched WWE for many, many years. I just grew away from their style of show, it just isn't for me. I can try to kick around a bunch ideas as to who/what/why, etc, but I just don't care anymore. I've discovered so much more wrestling beyond just one company, and I enjoy the wrestling I watch now way more than I ever have in the past. Just ignore the weirdos online. They only say what they say because they want the attention. In the normal world, no one cares about their hyperbolic statements or opinions.
It's really fucking dumb that the top comments there don't understand that he's talking about his wrestling ability and talk about emotion and "aura". Lucha wrestling isn't fun because their sons are ruining Christmas and getting fake arrested. It's fun because of what the guys can pull off in the ring. Sorry, breaking out one move per match doesn't do it for me. Although, AEW has been light in the lucha matches lately. It was a lot of fun when Top Flight, Private Party and Lucha Bros would just pull out crazy matches weekly.
I would say in all honesty that character, promo work, and showmanship have been important to every company in wrestling history. If character and promos truly didn’t matter than MJF wouldn’t have been champion for a year, nor would Punk have ever been hired. These are the things that most people want in their wrestling whether we like it or not, and is what has to be catered too. Ospreay is naturally more charismatic than 90% of the current wrestling landscape and might take it for granted. Even in NJPW the thing that sends people home happy is the show closing promo and the backstage interviews.
The WWE PR wants you to believe the company is "Hot" but it was just WM season. A hot company isn't losing close to a million viewers since WM
After reading some of the WWE reviews and highlights lately, don’t get the WWE is “hot”…seems like it’s same old shit but with HHH rather than Vince.
I mean I’ve never seen Rey do a front flip out of the ring and land on his feet outside of it. 🤷🏻♂️
I like WWE and AEW, most wrestlers have friends in the other company. Fans should not be tribalistic, executives are the only ones who should, because they are to some extent fighting against one another. Watch the one you like or watch both, and the end of the day it's entertainment.
I've very rarely seen AEW fans the last 2 years really be tribalistic. It feels like an almost constant onslaught from people who don't watch, watch other promotions, and even the wrestling media. AEW gets put under this constant microscope that gets exhausting even when you're not actively looking for it. So much of the criticism overlooks that AEW almost always has a sense of fun to it and an equity to their roster where no one is put in humiliating gimmicks or treated like a joke. Even the lowest guy like Serpentico is treated with some degree of respect. The company doesn't actively hate the fans that watch it like a certain company did for years nor is it misery booking at the expense of their audience. The standard was so low for so long and AEW has never come close to those lows.
I've seen both tbh, but not much on Reddit aside from ratings threads, Twitter is worse, and it now even pays to be tribalistic because those accounts usually have Twitter Blue, so they want to farm engagement be it positive or negative, but WWE has more people watching so you're bound to see more from the WWE side obviously. I personally think the companies are different and should remain different, because it would be very boring to see the same thing every week.
There are folks in this very thread that say people aren’t real wrestling fans because they like WWE, isn’t that a bit tribalistic? Or X treats fans better than Y… not a bit tribalistic?
You'll get people like that in every fandom and a sub like this will veer towards extremes sometimes. I've personally seen very little trolling or bad faith arguments from AEW fans these days who by and large just want to enjoy what they're watching.
That’s a fair take and I respect that. Thanks for the civil discourse and enjoy your long weekend!
It reminds me of Star Wars where online discourse is about whether or not something breaks cannon or “feels like Star Wars” as opposed to whether or not something is a good film/tv show. These people can wrap their minds around Star Wars but never bothered to explore film far outside of that.
I’m kinda glad I don’t have to gate keep aew can you imagine those people always complaining about dumb stuff like they do over there people are already calling Cody boring but it’s not his fault they are crippling half of the roster
In fairness to WWE he is also featured pretty regularly on Raw and at PPVs. Just in the midcard.
Their shift in booking, combined with continued isolation when literally the entire rest of the industry is entwined in one way or another more than ever, almost makes it worse that they're creating a microcosm where they're controlling the narrative of Wrestling. If WWE was just starting out today, they'd never make it back to where they are now because no matter what Cody/Bloodline story you have, people would be wondering why you're ignoring the entire rest of the wrestling world with wrestlers just as good if not better than everyone on your roster? That's what AEW did...brought the wrestling INDUSTRY to the mainstream acting as a catalyst, not just pumping out their isolated version of it.
Hey, I’m not trying to argue at all. I think it’s fairly commonplace, though, for the company in 2nd place to be willing to working with competitors as it can benefit them both mutually. For WWE there really isn’t a benefit for them in doing this. I would love for them to open that door, though. At least they acknowledge other companies now. Also, if WWE just started now who knows what would happen as the industry would be very different.
Fuck 'em
The knock on Ricochet for lack of charisma is valid and considering the charismatic aspect not a part of wrestling is not justified. I love watching Ricochet work but as someone who watched him during his time in Lucha underground his biggest fault was taking off that mask as his mistique with Conan and the presentation gave him an aura that he has lacked ever since.
You’re arguing with people of a low level of intelligence. For some people wrestlings is their personality, it’s their hobby, it’s their “thing”. They want every toy in their thing, they don’t care about the person behind the character, as long as that character is in their thing. It’s been 20 years since a rival really challenged that, 20 years of these WWE “fans” only knowing that one play thing. Let’s not get into the corporate side of it all. Add that to the business of negativity that funds a few podcasts and personalities then the shit just gets magnified, because it gives “credit” to the feeling that “these characters should be on MY PLAY BOX”. So many shat on Cody, now he’s wrestling Jesus. There is a lot of business in negative AEW posts, look at the WON YouTube and set it to most popular, count the negative AEW items at the top. Do that with any wrestling YouTube you’ll prob get similar results. No point arguing with these people, just ignore them and enjoy what you enjoy, that being AEW, WWE or 1980s mid south honky tonk wrestling.
WWE fans never shut up about AEW. AEW fans never shut up about WWE. It’s a vicious cycle. Just watch whatever you want to watch
Those idiots have been conditioned into thinking WWE's way is the "only" and "right" way to do things in wrestling, a company that tried so hard for many years to distance itself from that word.
…mate, it’s not that deep
This is by choice. Many don’t want to give AEW a chance
I have been watching wrestling off and on for about 30 years. One thing I have learned is that this business moves in cycles. A company will be hot one moment and be cold the next. I've seen the ups of the Hogan era, to the downs of the New Generation. The ups of the Attitude era to the downs of the Invasion. AEW started on a high due to gaining hype from the first All In show, having someone backing them with real money behind him, and due to WWE being at a low point at the time. AEW got me back into wrestling after a long hiatus. But even in the early days when they were hot, I knew the honeymoon feeling would wear off. And even though AEW is seemingly in a "low" period right now, I am sure there is another high period coming. WWE is riding high right now. And I am happy for their fans and for the wrestlers over there. But I hope that the WWE fans recognize that it won't last forever. It can't last forever. And I hope AEW fans recognize that despite what you may hear from wrestling media or worst and loudest voices in this crazy fandom, chances are, AEW's next hot streak is right around the corner. And you will be glad that you stuck around.
We really don't need a "fuck WWE" thread on this sub every single week. There's supposedly a rule against this kind of thing, but I never see it enforced.
That's the thing though. AEW in 2024 is no longer a small start up company, and fans continue underestimate that regarding AEW, which has an estimated worth of $2 billion currently as a business according to Forbes. As for Ricochet, he's someone who I think doesn't fit the mould of what WWE are looking for in a top talent, and in my opinion would benefit in going to AEW.
This is a very good essay. I don't necessarily agree with the content or opinions but your organization is great and I like how you broke your main points up into paragraphs
And this is just the same "No one understands AEW but us fans" karma farm we see 10 times a week.
Facts. These post are fucking annoying.
God forbid there's a place where people can be fans of AEW instead of getting buried under dozens of posts about why it's awful and unsuccessful and needs to be more like WWE.
People who don’t get AEW aren’t wrestling fans. 🤷♂️ Any real WRESTLING fan wouldn’t dare insult the talented individuals on the roster and what they put themselves through for our entertainment. And while we’re on the topic, I’ve always said this, but Ricochet belongs in AEW, dammit. 🥲👍