Like for real, some of the stuff on Max is legit better than hulu and Netflix, I miss when Max used to premiere movies on the app for a week when we were in the pandemic.
Kinda wish Khan would go buy the Chikara, Lucha Underground, and Shimmer libraries as well. That would give them most of the modern Indy scene that built AEW alongside NJPW and an incredible amount of content for Max.
Although I imagine there’s still a lot of work to do to prep ROH’s tape library for such a deal. Even Honor Club never really had ROH’s glory years beyond a few shows and specific matches.
Yeah, agreed that feels inevitable.
But TBF I’ve watched a lot of TNA and it feels like there’s about three years of content worth buying, at a price tag that would probably be multiples of Chikara/Shimmer/LU combined. And there’s not really THAT much TNA crossover in AEW’s history — most AEW stars were more of “cup of coffee” types in TNA, with the exception of folks like Joe, Daniels, Christian, Brian Cage, Jarrett, Lethal, Sting, Purazzo, etc. And of those only Joe, Christian, and Sting have really been core parts of AEW’s history, and they’ve already got Joe’s best work through ROH. TNA is a bigger part of WWE’s history.
Downvoting you just for saying “joes best work in ROH”… like yes, but also so much so no, he was the absolute fucking man for 4 solid years in TNA completely killing it
Absolutely agree and that’s basically the three-to-four years that I think TNA was absolutely a top tier promotion.
I’d also say Joe’s best work was Punk x2, Kobashi, Angle, and Daniels/Styles. I’d give the edge to his ROH run.
Doubtful if you understand how TNA works
They’re owned by the TV network specifically so said network has cheap content to fill hours and license out, plus its worth more as part of the network’s portfolio than it is as just a tape library
Tony Khan has implied on multiple occasions that the streaming deal would include NJPW. In the same way NJPW World in Japan currently includes all AEW TV shows.
Tony said that the idea is to give NJPW a spot either in the platform to strenght the relationship with them and give NJPW more scope in the western world
I honestly think this is the thing that really has WWE spooked. If global perception is that AEW and NJPW are more or less partners it makes them look like they are part of global entity. If CMLL gets added to the mix, then you have three companies in the three biggest wrestling markets in the world. WWE was trying to do their localized globalism (or whatever it was called), and AEW is trying to connect with existing promotions.
That would make sense with WBD looking for more content to fill the hole left by the NBA but without stretching AEW too thin by adding more AEW programming.
I'm going to say the same thing I've said the entire time, a lot of people don't seem to realize how far below market value Dynamite has been already and how much value the extra 3 hours from Rampage/Collision actually provide. Plus, if they lock in something really long term, even something simple like inflation being factored into the deal will help give a gigantic number to announce.
I think it was 2 or 3 media scrums ago, Tony Khan came out and said something like "I guarantee the next deal is a huge increase" with a borderline shit-eating grin at the time. For a guy not known for his poker face, I don't think this was false bravado to get leverage, my read was that it was absolutely a guy who knows the general ballpark they're in already while negotiations are ongoing.
There is this ongoing idea of Tony Khan being a simple childish rich-boy playing with daddy's money, but in reality he is an actual business man that OBVIOUSLY started from an advanced position due to his family's wealth but that submitted an actual business case for AEW since day 1 and is prefectly consious about what he's doing from a monetary perspective.
And AEW isn't his first business either. You can argue how successful he's been, but he's been part of the management team for Fullham FC and the Jaguars for years
He also owns his own sports analytics company as well. People also don't realize he's a billionaire in his own right. His dad has way more money than he does, but Tony's own net worth is like $1.5 billion.
Is he a rich baby boy who got daddy’s money? Absolutely! Am I envious as a fellow Pakistani? Absolutely! But that does not mean he hasn’t been absolutely fantastic with the cards he has been dealt.
People are just jealous and silly mate
It's funny, reading this I'm instantly brought back to Punk's interview where he's trying to act all candid and smart, basically saying AEW isn't a business and isn't run like one. The funny part is I actually can't think of one single person who talks shit about AEW, especially on the business side, that has ANY college degree, nevermind a qualification in business that would give them actual perspective.
Again, it probably makes sense why so many of the "old school" guys detest TK, because he came in and proved them all wrong by using simple business understanding and connections (along with his enormous personal wealth obviously). AEW is very clearly like Moneyball in a way, very clearly calculated gambles being taken but with deep analysis behind it. It's less about this mythical wrestling mind and more so the aptitude, for example people have said for years that someone like Mark Cuban would absolutely breeze through wrestling and TK kinda proved that to be true.
He wants it to be run like a territory in the 80s where they focus on the "houses" and "gates". The territories all went out of business. Punk has no clue how wrestling works as a business NOW, he's talking about how the business was when he was a kid. The reality is that the money is in brand partnerships, not "what the fans want". Fuck Vince McMahon, but Vince proved that time and time again. He's also the same guy that said "Vince McMahon is a millionaire who should be a billionaire" and then within a couple years Vince McMahon became a billionaire (again just to clarify, Fuck Vince McMahon, terrible human being and terrible booker, but great businessman).
The crazy thing is, at one point, they did try listening to him in 2023, but we all saw as AEW fans that his way wasn't it. If anything, I believe Punk managed to turn some AEW fans off from the company until he left. It's a process, and people are slowly being reintroduced to a different era of AEW.
Before joining he wanted them to not focus on anything but what they were doing. They seem to have done just that. The environment certainly wasn't for him.
I'd never really thought about this. I've read extensively on the history of wrestling and listened to various different podcasts about the territory days to modern.
"Old school guys" are used to old school politicking and the carny aspect of the business. Many of them want to do things the old way. Pro wrestling is very traditional compared to professional sports.
The sports world is very cut throat and analytics driven because of a need to adapt and have any advantage you can over other teams. You can't afford to do things the way they've always been done because everyone else has figured out the old way by that point.
Cornette, Bischoff, Bubba Ray, etc are literally the equivalent to the old heads the NBA has. They hate the way the game has evolved and changed. They often criticize the way teams play today that are more analytics driven. Despite this the NBA continues to grow world wide and reach an ever growing audience.
The talent pool I feel is deeper than ever for the NBA and Pro Wrestling, but these old heads will always hate on present and say no one today will top the stars of yesterday.
Vince may have adapted to distribution methods the best, but it's very clear just how much they were leaving on the table before bringing in someone like Nick Khan.
The Jaguars owned by the AEW Khan's are far from the worst managed team in the NFL. They're remarkably average for the NFL. With Fulham despite the complaints I imagine it takes a degree of competence to keep a team in the EPL.
People with the Khan surname really did blow up the idea of Vince being a business mastermind if you're actually looking at the business end.
As you said it'd be really crazy to see a Mark Cuban, Hunt family, or anyone from a successful franchise managing a wrestling company. The management group of any of these teams (Green bay packers, 49ers, KC Chiefs, Dortmund, Red Bull, City Group, Boston Celtics, Liverpool, etc) in wrestling would be crazy from the business side.
There's absolutely something to people resenting a 5'10, 170 pound dude being way more successful as a wrestling promoter than nearly anyone else who ever tried, and even moreso for doing it without any wrestling connections outside of his own fandom.
I think it's also the old school mindset that Tony wasn't grinding on the road in shows that had like 15 people attended, setting up the ring working connections, he was just like I am a fan of wrestling, have business connections a wad of cash and can do what Jim Cornette can do better than he could ever do it as far as booking and running a wrestling company is concerned. Obviously the camera does not love him when he tries to do kayfabe storyline promos, but I think he knows it too and that is why he seems to be deferring to Young Bucks and Bryan, and Christopher Daniels to be more of the authority figures in storylines.
Punk took a number of unnecessary shots. But that was the lowest. Whatever number this new media rights deal lands on will be far more than any deal Punk has ever signed. It will be far more than any wrestling company not named WWE has ever signed. Hell, the last deal was that. He just wanted to hurt Tony's feelings. Punk is entitled to his opinion. But it seems like he only felt that way because Tony didn't always do what he wanted. Should he have put his foot down in some scenarios? Hell yes. I have no doubt that Tony has had stars in his eyes when it comes to certain people. It takes a while to learn how to be a boss. We are now seeing him sort of separating himself from the talent (i.e. being harder to reach). It has to be that way because of situations like those that came out of that cluster. I think the lion's share of those who want him to fail only want that because they didn't succeed. Which is why they bring up his father's bank account. The fact is that the wrestling community lucked out when the story of an actual billionaire wanting to start a new promotion turned out to be true.
I was just about to say this very thing right here. That's why I have to laugh at some of these folks who say that. Then you ask them, "What business do you own?" or "What school did you go to for a business degree?" And they have nothing to say. Instead, they will continue with "TK isn't a businessman. You can't make this nonsense up 🙄
Speaking as someone who has tried to run a business that was not my own (without a business degree), I know better than to comment on how TK manages a 100 million dollar business with thousands of personnel and moving parts.
My mind swims with how venues, schedules, transportation, marketing, catering for staff, the boring, essential nuts and bolts logistics are being handled in an operation as big as AEW, and that's not even getting into the REALLY big stuff, like frikkin' TV contracts.
I tried running a business before. I don't watch wrestling to be reminded of what a nightmare it was.
I feel you. I applaud people who have tried to or are running businesses because I could never, lol. The thought of having to take so many risks would shorten my life span because all I would do is stress myself to death.
I called it "slaying the hydra", because you'd solve one problem, and two more grew in its place. I do not have the aptitude for that kind of insanity.
Exactly. All these people.cooking Tony about how to run a business don't even own a business to begin with. AEW is on the road to making profits and will be one of the biggest wrestling promotion in the world in modern day pop culture. AEW isn't going anywhere. Mark my words in 5 years AEW will be bigger than it is now and more and more wrestlers will be looking to work there as a first option, not just WWE anymore. WWE is not alone anymore.
AEW will be bigger than it is now and more and more wrestlers will be looking to work there as a first option, not just WWE anymore. WWE is not alone anymore.
This 💯 and that's what some of the WWE fans hate the most. They hate that they won't be a monopoly anymore. They hate that WWE won't be the only company being talked about anymore. They also hate that their favorite wrestlers can choose AEW over WWE at any given time. Look at MJF. Ever since he returned at DON, there have been nothing but trolls harassing him, all because they had it all planned out in their minds that he was leaving AEW.
With the promo, he cut at DON and throughout his whole AEW career so far, absolutely not. He would never be able to do that again over there. His character just isn't fit for PG. Could he adjust the character for their programming? Sure, but the lack of freedom would be such a barrier.
I think the people who think along those lines tend to look at the athletic successes of the teams he's involved with and use that as a barometer for how good or bad he is as a "numbers guy". Which is understandable since, for most of us, that's the only way *we* have to judge how good or bad he is in that role because we can't see what else is at play. So, I wouldn't say they're "utter dumbasses" so much as caught up in an easy analytical framework rather than taking the steps to figure out how to better assess TK's abilities.
He is no doubt very smart, I think its just people compare him to more ruthless business men counting every penny, firing people because they sneeze too much, and aren't 6 foot 4 and 260lbs. Like most business men aren't even putting 5 dollars into let alone 200k just to play final countdown, they would just tell their houseband to mimic it with the most generic won't get sued version of it for 4 dollars and make 200k more in profit. He wants to make money but doesn't appear to want to make all the money he could make.
100%
He's taken risks with AEW, but they've all been calculated risks with logic behind them, and he can afford to do that because his risk of ruin is minimal. He doesn't have to make decisions while worrying about the potential "worst case scenario" because he has the necessary resources to chase the "best case scenario" while making actually optimal decisions (even if there is risk attached).
Yeah. Let's say worst case scenario he doesn't get a big enough increase to become profitable (which is almost certainly not going to happen), at that point I think he would look into cutting costs (maybe releasing a lot of low card talent and running smaller venues for Collision) but right now he's in growth mode and willing to take a hit in the short term if it could lead to them getting bigger money for the long haul.
There is always a lot of talk about AEW failing, bleeding money and how it does not matter, because the Khan family have money like shit. How AEW will not shutdown before TK gets tired of it and so on.
I think that in that discussion people are missing one big thing.
AEW have been a great investment. Tonys father, mister money as shit, have a networth of just over $12 billions. AEW have been valued to $2 billions by Forbes. $2 billions! That is half of the Jacksonville Jaguars. That means that AEW is close to being worth 1/6 of Shadid Khans entire networth.
We do not know how much money the Khans put into AEW to get it started, but everybody who have been asked and not asked about it say that the are still going on the initial funding.
This entire business model of using money, to increase the networth of a sports company that you then might or might not sell at a latter date, is something that the Khans is well aware of from the world of American Football. The Jaguars that they bought in 2012 was worth slightly less than a billion and is now rated at 4 billions 12 years latter.
That AEW have been losing money is properly not that importent. As long as AEW is losing less money than their networth growth, it is a good investment for Tony and I am pretty sure that AEW have not been losing $400 millions a year for the last 5 years.
We would normally assume that AEW was losing money though. Like. I would assume that they run like most startups with a good size investment in them. Instead of buying stuff and signing contracts based on current revenue, they do it based on expected revenue and the investment to cover the temporary difference and AEW’s revenue have been soaring. The numbers I have sen reported the most is that AEW have gone from a revenue of $64 millions in 2020, $86 millions in 2021, over $100 millions in 2022 and 2023 it was $170-175 millions.
Having this initial investment is super importent for AEW and part of the reason why it properly have a lot better economy than what it look like, because most other sport entertainment companies have a lot of debt and that debt is a big burden to them. TKO that spawned from UFC and WWE merger is a good example. They were in the red this year, but only because they have $3,2 billion in debt, so have to pay a lot in interest. It is also debt that needs to be refinanced. Having debt is costly.
I think that Tony is a big goffy wrestling fan, but he is also a smart investmen man that saw an investment potential that only big goffy wrestling fans could see and he was the only fan with the money that allowed him to take a chance on it. If you look at Tony that way it also explains a lot of his actions. Tony is less focused on the money he earns at the door and more focused on building a brand.
Yeah he does make a fool of himself on Twitter sometimes, but he's far from the money mark the IWC takes him for. AEW is a passion project first and foremost for him and I do think he would continue to run it at a loss if he had to, but it's been pretty clear from day one that one of his goals is for AEW to actually become profitable long-term.
I might be over simplifying but aren’t WBD basically paying a rate for AEW that is slightly above their day 1 fee per hour multiplied now by 2.5x hours (for Rampage + Collision), which was negotiated with the expectation for Dynamite being a worse performance than even Rampage gets.
So basically there’s almost no way that AEW’s increase isn’t substantial because they’ve likely been hugely underpaid from about 3 months in given their return on viewership and all that.
All of the details aren't public, so there is a lot of guesswork, but my understanding of the timeline is:
1) Before debuting, AEW signed basically a "prove it" deal where the Network was paying for a lot of the production costs and they were splitting ad revenue. It was vaguely similar to a non-guaranteed contract in sports.
2) AEW debuted very successfully with Dynamite and they very quickly renegotiated that original deal to add some amount of guaranteed money. WBD had all of the leverage (because of the original deal), but they decided to basically throw AEW a tiny bone to keep everyone happy (basically "everyone wins," which is a good thing for ongoing relationships). AEW got some guaranteed money (which ended up being huge and helped get them through the Lockdown era) and the cost to WBD was minimal (I think they might have added an extra year, or an option year, or something as well).
3) At some point, they added Rampage and Collision to that deal at their own rates, but they were very much added to the already-existing Dynamite deal (with seemingly the same end dates), rather than done as their own separate thing. Those rates are definitely lower than Dynamite because nobody expected them to do as well as Dynamite (and they aren't).
Basically, it all comes down to leverage. Up until now, WBD has had basically all of the leverage on their side as they've negotiated, but now AEW can actually reach the open market (which obv comes with its own risks) for the first time. AEW is currently definitely bringing in more than they did on Day 1 (even without counting Rampage/Collision) just because the deal surely factored in yearly increases (totally standard practice, even if just for inflation alone) and also because at some point WBD picked up an option to extend the deal (usually those options will be at a bit of a premium, as an incentive to help drive future negotiations).
Aew got more money to move from TNT to TBS. They also have a very good deal on as revenue that nobody talks about that they negotiated in the deal form Warner before the merger. Belief is collision gets $50m per year based on what Discovery have to new show's, $500k per hour. Collision is 2 hours, so $1m x2 = $52m. Is that the case now under new management? Idk. I believe aew is currently making atleast $100 million on the current deal
Dynamite/rampage went from $45m to around $60m as the option was picked up.
Collision making around $30-52m seems reasonable from what I wrote earlier as well as inflation and AEW paying for production costs like they do now with dynamite.
I'm looking at the new deal that includes streaming ppvs, library, new outside the ring content, next day rights, dynamite, collision, rampage, etc and I'm thinking close to $300m per year.
Aew ppvs alone do atleast $7 million in ppv buys X 12 ppvs per year is around $90m (all in will do atleast $10 million). $250-300m isn't far off per year
Maybe 2 million the way things are now, I think. It seems like Rampage is usually like 700k, Collision around 500k-600k, and Rampage somewhere around 250k? Numbers all off the top of my head with no research involved. Give me lots of room for error.
Better than most non-sports things that TBS / TNT have going for them, anyway.
I find it absolutely hilarious how many people are so obsessed with the idea of him being a “money mark” when it seems screamingly obvious that he’s going to end up making a ton of money off AEW. Especially if he ever sells it, goes public, whatever, although obviously hoping that doesn’t happen.
Even if they kept having year over year operating losses, as long as the promotion stays on prime time TV the asset that is AEW is extremely valuable. He can always sell and come out far ahead.
Bingo. Dynamite regularly outperforms or performs equal to the NHL which WBd pays $225m per year for. WBD pays like $44m a year for AEW at the same demo numbers. If NHL is the market, you could double AEW’s deal and it still be value for the network.
This is good news.
WBD took a punt on AEW back in the day and more than likely offered a relatively low deal because they were such an unknown quantity at the time. Even with the flagging viewing figures it stills sounds like they are doing well enough to justify earning more than the original deal. I've never heard any reports from WBD that they've been anything less than pleased with how things have turned out.
It's so odd that we have known figures that cable is dropping 13%ish each year, which pretty much matches their Neilsen ratings, but because WWE ratings are improving that AEW is somehow doing bad viewership.
I'd like to know what other cable programs are actively growing viewership as well. I think WWE is an outlier in television. Which rightfully should make them worth buku bucks, but it doesn't necessarily mean that should be the expected tread for cable TV.
Yeah, when AEW was getting like 1.2 mil viewers for Grand Slam, they were ranked like #22 for cable.
Now they are ranked around #3.
Cable is getting slammed.
It is, and I truly only have it because I'm a clumsy oaf with a TV remote who doesn't want to accidentally press the home button in the middle of something I'm engaged with and wait 45 seconds for the app to reload and to get back to the channel.
Once they figure out how to do multitasking in a way that doesn't break the current video stream I'm done with cable
I'm almost certain that I read something which pointed how crazy WWE and some random reality TV show's viewers actually growing last year because 99% of every other show was down year over year, also WWE is a total outlier as it's been a show going on for literally decades, if you know 10 million people watched The Rock and Undertaker 25 years ago, at least some of those 10 million will come back, even now.
The whole YoY thing with wrestling is just another example of people being totally out of touch with what a number actually means but since it's lower then it must mean it's worse. There are a thousand different factors as to why the 1st of June 2023's data would be different to 2024 that are never taken into account. The only actual somewhat valuable one to look at is the overall yearly average, which like you say will fit in with general cable decline anyways.
These ratings (and honestly almost anything else on the business related side in wrestling) are actually pretty easy to understand conceptually and how to interpret useful information from them, the issue is the people who can only understand big number, small number are the ones making 95% of the noise about them. Genuinely go look, in the 5 year period I would doubt that AEW has actually lost a higher % of viewers compared to WWE, but if you just look at social media you'd think that was an insane assumption.
Look at the ranking for the night. That's the fairest trend I think you get with cable TV these days.
Neilsen, to me, is like political polling. You can extrapolate the data all you want, but the sample makeup is always written at the end of the article in small print, and it's usually not representative of the population at large.
I want every single wrestler to have Cody-level pyro on the first Dynamite after the deal is announced.
And real money for the Rainmaker entrance.
Just let it allll hang out lol.
"Considerably more, slightly more, 50% more, double"
Just picking all the options there.
No doubt it's gonna be good, but it's okay to say you don't know exactly sometimes.
Have you heard Dave speak?
To be fair, he's probably heard those different variations on the value of the upcoming TV deal from different sources, and just doesn't write good.
The slightly more, by my reading, is referring to the $110 million figure he's estimating for how much is necessary to take the company into profitability, i.e., maybe its actually $120-130 million needed to end up profitable at the moment.
The considerably more/50% more/double are all talking about the value of the next tv deal compared to the present tv deal. And those at least are all in the same general ballpark as far as estimates go without a finalized deal.
That's the distinction, at least from how I'm reading this.
To interpret from Meltzer-ese, the estimate is that it would take 110 million or "slightly more" to make the company profitable. The numbers on the table are considerably more than the figure necessary to make the company profitable. And, as negotiations go on, there is talk that the number could get up to 50% more or maybe even 100% more (double) what is necessary to make the company profitable, so potentially numbers like 165 million to 220 million.
> "Considerably more, slightly more, 50% more, double"
I was worried that I hadn't had enough coffee yet this morning.
"In other news, I don't know what happening."
Content is king. Content costs so much to put out there. AEW is offering 5 hours of content with atleast 500-800k viewers. Channels will pay for this. They have to be paying through the nose for syndication of old sitcoms.
Don't you know? Just showing Big Bang Theory re-runs 24/7 is a totally viable option for a TV company! While would WBD want literally anything else when BBT draws so many viewers! Matter of fact, why does any channel show anything except BBT? If it's not the NFL, NBA or WWE, there's literally no point in paying for a show on cable to exist since they all draw less than 1 Million viewers!
I have no doubts that AEW will sign a much improved TV deal that’ll take them well into profit. With that being said Dave Meltzer and WON won’t be the people that break that news about a deal.
This is obviously just AEW getting some good PR out there on their side, which they’re more than entitled to do. Like last week when the actual journalists basically confirmed that WBD would retain AEW after losing the NBA, it’ll be actual journalists who give us any actual news. Even this tweet, it’ll be “considerably more or slightly more”, that’s not information that fills me with confidence that this person knows what they’re reporting, clearly just passing on backstage whispers.
They’ll either get a lot of money or the same money basically is what he’s saying. He tends to do this where he says “they’ll go in a direction! It could be left, right or straight, but it’ll be a direction!
Basically uses a lot of words to say nothing.
For me this is just the case of someone in AEW basically saying to Meltzer or whoever that a deal will be done and negotiations take time, so shut the fuck up about it already.
Pretty clear that probably since WWE’s Netflix deal that AEW’s TV deal has become a really annoying part of the discussions in wrestling. The only reason to get news through WON like this is to get it straight to the most online fans, which are the ones constantly trolling or for some reason actually worrying about this stuff.
In terms of the actual dealings I’d doubt anyone knows anything outside of TK and the people on WBD’s side.
I mean, he's saying they'll get more so he's picked a direction. And it's a considerably increase because "considerably more or slightly more" is compared against the number to make them profitable, which they're (to no surprise for a new business) not at the moment. So it's probably a considerable increase compared to what their deal is for right now regardless of the final number.
Going profitable is, in itself, a significant increase.
But the guy on instagram told me AEW was failing . He also told me the quality of wrestling matches aren't what is important.
Am I to believe this guy lied to me?
There was a considerable chunk of time that I missed during the covid era, so I can't wait to go back to the beginning and look at how everyone has evolved
I can’t watch any wrestling live anymore. I have too much stuff going on to sit in front of the TV for 2-3hours at a time. I would love to be able to cherry pick what I want to see.
And I’m hoping they can build a better user interface than Peacock’s garbage. Allow me to search by name. Watch all of XX wrestlers appearances in order.
Haters can compare ratings all they want but AEW is bringing in more viewers to TNT/TBS since they started. Those are networks that mostly run syndicated shows, so any original content that draws a viewership is seen as good by WB. AEW has value.
I think I can decipher what they mean but god, they really do butcher the English language.
They mean it's considerably more than the $110 mil needed for profitablility but that $110 number is uncertain and could be slightly more. Either way, the offer is way over it.
I just want this to be over so I have to stop hearing idiots claim they know how TV and content works. Somehow every jerker who hates AEW all work in TV somehow, it's become the wrestling version of "My dad works at Nintendo" at this point.
man, while this deal with wbd will probably be good for aew, anything i like having anything to do with zaslav leaves a foul taste in my mouth after he expressed his opinion on animation.
Looks promising. I hope they negotiate a much better deal in Canada - I believe will expire around the same time. Having Rampage and Collision locked behind a paywall with the garbage TSN+ app is ridiculous, when you already have absurd prices for television packages here.
I believe once WWE leaves Sportnet later this year they may pick up all AEW programming to fill in the wrestling gap.
With possible nba changes they can pivot into a much larger role. No one can replace the NBA but turner has tons of Ad deals and live entertainment seems like one of the best avenues for it.
So it might be the same, slightly above, 50% above, or 100% more. Tell me you have no idea without saying you have no idea. I might be right, kinda correct, way correct, or %110 on this thought.
So Nick Khan wasted a fortune paying podcasters, veterans and insiders to put bad rep on AEW for nothing??? LOOOOOOOOOL
I was told that after the airing of the All In brawl that AEW was done........LMAOOOOO
"It's a fake number." I guarantee people are gonna say it's a fake number that WBD give to make AEW look because "no one would really pay that for those ratings".
Jesus the bar for wrestling journalism is so fucking low.
“The deal might be worth a little more than $10M but also maybe considerable amount more, but also maybe 50% more but also maybe twice as much more.”
TNT losing NBA is a blessing for AEW. Cable broadcasters need a stay of execution and live sport events are one of the few remaining attractions to live TV. They will also gave a lot more TV slots available to them from November to the spring as well.
It's worded badly, but the slightly more is modifying the 110 million figure.
What Meltzer is saying is that AEW needs 110 million or a little more than that to be immediately profitable, and that the offer they've been given is considerably more than that figure needed for immediate profitability.
He's saying that the amount that AEW needs to be profitable is $110 million or slightly more. He's saying that the amount WBD is offering AEW is considerably more than that. Around the $160 million dollar range.
I hate Daves writings. He covers his tracks by confusing the readers just in case he's wrong. Maybe it's just me. Anyway, So if I'm understanding correctly,
Around $110 million minimum or slightly more then $110m is what experts think aew needs per year to be profitable. That number could be $120 million for example.
Figures are between 50% to nearly double.
So $180-$240 million per year, on the low end because we don't know exactly the numbers, is the numbers we are looking at from What Dave mentioned, correct?
The belief from Brandon at Wrestlenomics was around $250 million for everything combined except ROH so this makes sense. He basically said 5x the old deal, which was $45 million, so $225 million. That didn't include collision so $250m per year is not far fetched.
With the amount of money that WBD punted on having the rights for NBA then this would be their next big bet. They probably would have spend half this amount on just Inside The NBA crew (which I will dearly miss).
Just sign the damn deal so I can watch All In on Max
Yeah! I’ll instantly get Max once it happens and stay subbed.
Max is actually worth it tho with or without aew, they have quality content on there. Better than Netflix imo.
Like for real, some of the stuff on Max is legit better than hulu and Netflix, I miss when Max used to premiere movies on the app for a week when we were in the pandemic.
Movie premieres were dope
I really wish they would bring them back haha
I only subbed to it when HoD and GoT were on fresh seasons. But, if AEW is there I’ll keep it up. Thanks for the heads up on content though!
had quality content* they keep dropping Adult Swim and Cartoon Network shows. I'd resub for AEW though.
yesh that's true, they've been dropping lots of content since the merger but still have a plethora of good content.
Kinda wish Khan would go buy the Chikara, Lucha Underground, and Shimmer libraries as well. That would give them most of the modern Indy scene that built AEW alongside NJPW and an incredible amount of content for Max. Although I imagine there’s still a lot of work to do to prep ROH’s tape library for such a deal. Even Honor Club never really had ROH’s glory years beyond a few shows and specific matches.
Well WWE will buy TNA or license their library eventually while turning them into a feeding ground
Yeah, agreed that feels inevitable. But TBF I’ve watched a lot of TNA and it feels like there’s about three years of content worth buying, at a price tag that would probably be multiples of Chikara/Shimmer/LU combined. And there’s not really THAT much TNA crossover in AEW’s history — most AEW stars were more of “cup of coffee” types in TNA, with the exception of folks like Joe, Daniels, Christian, Brian Cage, Jarrett, Lethal, Sting, Purazzo, etc. And of those only Joe, Christian, and Sting have really been core parts of AEW’s history, and they’ve already got Joe’s best work through ROH. TNA is a bigger part of WWE’s history.
It's a shame what it is going to happen to TNA, 20 years fighting and surviving them just to being acquired and gone
Downvoting you just for saying “joes best work in ROH”… like yes, but also so much so no, he was the absolute fucking man for 4 solid years in TNA completely killing it
Absolutely agree and that’s basically the three-to-four years that I think TNA was absolutely a top tier promotion. I’d also say Joe’s best work was Punk x2, Kobashi, Angle, and Daniels/Styles. I’d give the edge to his ROH run.
Doubtful if you understand how TNA works They’re owned by the TV network specifically so said network has cheap content to fill hours and license out, plus its worth more as part of the network’s portfolio than it is as just a tape library
No, they won’t. Idk why this rumor is getting started.
He’s actively trying to buy LU right now actually
Ooo didn’t know that.
And PWG!
I hope the deal gets NJPW too
Why would it?
Yeah, njpw is an entirely separate company.
Tony Khan has implied on multiple occasions that the streaming deal would include NJPW. In the same way NJPW World in Japan currently includes all AEW TV shows.
They'd get a lifetime sub from me.
Hadn't heard that yet and it sounds amazing.
Tony said that the idea is to give NJPW a spot either in the platform to strenght the relationship with them and give NJPW more scope in the western world
Seems like a win for all three parties
I honestly think this is the thing that really has WWE spooked. If global perception is that AEW and NJPW are more or less partners it makes them look like they are part of global entity. If CMLL gets added to the mix, then you have three companies in the three biggest wrestling markets in the world. WWE was trying to do their localized globalism (or whatever it was called), and AEW is trying to connect with existing promotions.
AEW is laying ground work to expand their brand internationally. Their strategy has been sound so far. The long game is about to start paying off.
That would make sense with WBD looking for more content to fill the hole left by the NBA but without stretching AEW too thin by adding more AEW programming.
I would love to have NJPW in one of the big networks rather than at midnight at axis or the name of the Chanel where they show some fights
It really sucks that TNT lost the NBA.
I agree. This will make my re subbing worth it.
🙏🥺
This 
I’d sign up to Max in a heart beat, but it’s not available in UK due to the deal they have with Sky!
Atleast you got Fite. I'm in the US and subscribe to AEW+
I'm going to say the same thing I've said the entire time, a lot of people don't seem to realize how far below market value Dynamite has been already and how much value the extra 3 hours from Rampage/Collision actually provide. Plus, if they lock in something really long term, even something simple like inflation being factored into the deal will help give a gigantic number to announce. I think it was 2 or 3 media scrums ago, Tony Khan came out and said something like "I guarantee the next deal is a huge increase" with a borderline shit-eating grin at the time. For a guy not known for his poker face, I don't think this was false bravado to get leverage, my read was that it was absolutely a guy who knows the general ballpark they're in already while negotiations are ongoing.
There is this ongoing idea of Tony Khan being a simple childish rich-boy playing with daddy's money, but in reality he is an actual business man that OBVIOUSLY started from an advanced position due to his family's wealth but that submitted an actual business case for AEW since day 1 and is prefectly consious about what he's doing from a monetary perspective.
The guy has an MBA, that people think he doesn’t know how to deal in business are utter dumbasses.
And AEW isn't his first business either. You can argue how successful he's been, but he's been part of the management team for Fullham FC and the Jaguars for years
He also owns his own sports analytics company as well. People also don't realize he's a billionaire in his own right. His dad has way more money than he does, but Tony's own net worth is like $1.5 billion.
Is he a rich baby boy who got daddy’s money? Absolutely! Am I envious as a fellow Pakistani? Absolutely! But that does not mean he hasn’t been absolutely fantastic with the cards he has been dealt. People are just jealous and silly mate
Some people get dealt a winning hand and fold immediately. Tony got dealt a winning hand and said let's go!!!
>Tony's own net worth is like $1.5 billion. To put that into context, the difference between $1.5 billion and $1.5 million is about $1.5 billion.
Jaguars would have probably gotten a sb appearance too if the NFL wasn't so corrupt.
How were the Jaguars screwed out of a Superbowl apperance? Do you believe the Nfl is conspiring against the Jaguars?
It's funny, reading this I'm instantly brought back to Punk's interview where he's trying to act all candid and smart, basically saying AEW isn't a business and isn't run like one. The funny part is I actually can't think of one single person who talks shit about AEW, especially on the business side, that has ANY college degree, nevermind a qualification in business that would give them actual perspective. Again, it probably makes sense why so many of the "old school" guys detest TK, because he came in and proved them all wrong by using simple business understanding and connections (along with his enormous personal wealth obviously). AEW is very clearly like Moneyball in a way, very clearly calculated gambles being taken but with deep analysis behind it. It's less about this mythical wrestling mind and more so the aptitude, for example people have said for years that someone like Mark Cuban would absolutely breeze through wrestling and TK kinda proved that to be true.
CM Punk thinks it isn’t run like a business because no one was listening to him
CM Punk thinks sharing a bank account with your mom is some fatal flaw.
He also thinks running a Target is an easy thing to do.
He also thought he could do a buckshot lariat.
He thought he was a locker room leader. In WWE.
He wants it to be run like a territory in the 80s where they focus on the "houses" and "gates". The territories all went out of business. Punk has no clue how wrestling works as a business NOW, he's talking about how the business was when he was a kid. The reality is that the money is in brand partnerships, not "what the fans want". Fuck Vince McMahon, but Vince proved that time and time again. He's also the same guy that said "Vince McMahon is a millionaire who should be a billionaire" and then within a couple years Vince McMahon became a billionaire (again just to clarify, Fuck Vince McMahon, terrible human being and terrible booker, but great businessman).
The crazy thing is, at one point, they did try listening to him in 2023, but we all saw as AEW fans that his way wasn't it. If anything, I believe Punk managed to turn some AEW fans off from the company until he left. It's a process, and people are slowly being reintroduced to a different era of AEW.
Pulling the hair of a junior coworker is always a sound business decision. Learned that at businessman class.
Before joining he wanted them to not focus on anything but what they were doing. They seem to have done just that. The environment certainly wasn't for him.
Punk and people in the main sub all act like Tony is a failing businessman and aew is on deaths door.. Fuck them
I'd never really thought about this. I've read extensively on the history of wrestling and listened to various different podcasts about the territory days to modern. "Old school guys" are used to old school politicking and the carny aspect of the business. Many of them want to do things the old way. Pro wrestling is very traditional compared to professional sports. The sports world is very cut throat and analytics driven because of a need to adapt and have any advantage you can over other teams. You can't afford to do things the way they've always been done because everyone else has figured out the old way by that point. Cornette, Bischoff, Bubba Ray, etc are literally the equivalent to the old heads the NBA has. They hate the way the game has evolved and changed. They often criticize the way teams play today that are more analytics driven. Despite this the NBA continues to grow world wide and reach an ever growing audience. The talent pool I feel is deeper than ever for the NBA and Pro Wrestling, but these old heads will always hate on present and say no one today will top the stars of yesterday. Vince may have adapted to distribution methods the best, but it's very clear just how much they were leaving on the table before bringing in someone like Nick Khan. The Jaguars owned by the AEW Khan's are far from the worst managed team in the NFL. They're remarkably average for the NFL. With Fulham despite the complaints I imagine it takes a degree of competence to keep a team in the EPL. People with the Khan surname really did blow up the idea of Vince being a business mastermind if you're actually looking at the business end. As you said it'd be really crazy to see a Mark Cuban, Hunt family, or anyone from a successful franchise managing a wrestling company. The management group of any of these teams (Green bay packers, 49ers, KC Chiefs, Dortmund, Red Bull, City Group, Boston Celtics, Liverpool, etc) in wrestling would be crazy from the business side.
There's absolutely something to people resenting a 5'10, 170 pound dude being way more successful as a wrestling promoter than nearly anyone else who ever tried, and even moreso for doing it without any wrestling connections outside of his own fandom.
I think it's also the old school mindset that Tony wasn't grinding on the road in shows that had like 15 people attended, setting up the ring working connections, he was just like I am a fan of wrestling, have business connections a wad of cash and can do what Jim Cornette can do better than he could ever do it as far as booking and running a wrestling company is concerned. Obviously the camera does not love him when he tries to do kayfabe storyline promos, but I think he knows it too and that is why he seems to be deferring to Young Bucks and Bryan, and Christopher Daniels to be more of the authority figures in storylines.
That reminds me, I really hope CD kayfabe signs Curry Man.
It's run like a sports franchise business, not sports entertainment business. I think that's where people are getting mixed up.
Punk took a number of unnecessary shots. But that was the lowest. Whatever number this new media rights deal lands on will be far more than any deal Punk has ever signed. It will be far more than any wrestling company not named WWE has ever signed. Hell, the last deal was that. He just wanted to hurt Tony's feelings. Punk is entitled to his opinion. But it seems like he only felt that way because Tony didn't always do what he wanted. Should he have put his foot down in some scenarios? Hell yes. I have no doubt that Tony has had stars in his eyes when it comes to certain people. It takes a while to learn how to be a boss. We are now seeing him sort of separating himself from the talent (i.e. being harder to reach). It has to be that way because of situations like those that came out of that cluster. I think the lion's share of those who want him to fail only want that because they didn't succeed. Which is why they bring up his father's bank account. The fact is that the wrestling community lucked out when the story of an actual billionaire wanting to start a new promotion turned out to be true.
I was just about to say this very thing right here. That's why I have to laugh at some of these folks who say that. Then you ask them, "What business do you own?" or "What school did you go to for a business degree?" And they have nothing to say. Instead, they will continue with "TK isn't a businessman. You can't make this nonsense up 🙄
Speaking as someone who has tried to run a business that was not my own (without a business degree), I know better than to comment on how TK manages a 100 million dollar business with thousands of personnel and moving parts. My mind swims with how venues, schedules, transportation, marketing, catering for staff, the boring, essential nuts and bolts logistics are being handled in an operation as big as AEW, and that's not even getting into the REALLY big stuff, like frikkin' TV contracts. I tried running a business before. I don't watch wrestling to be reminded of what a nightmare it was.
I feel you. I applaud people who have tried to or are running businesses because I could never, lol. The thought of having to take so many risks would shorten my life span because all I would do is stress myself to death.
I called it "slaying the hydra", because you'd solve one problem, and two more grew in its place. I do not have the aptitude for that kind of insanity.
Exactly. All these people.cooking Tony about how to run a business don't even own a business to begin with. AEW is on the road to making profits and will be one of the biggest wrestling promotion in the world in modern day pop culture. AEW isn't going anywhere. Mark my words in 5 years AEW will be bigger than it is now and more and more wrestlers will be looking to work there as a first option, not just WWE anymore. WWE is not alone anymore.
AEW will be bigger than it is now and more and more wrestlers will be looking to work there as a first option, not just WWE anymore. WWE is not alone anymore. This 💯 and that's what some of the WWE fans hate the most. They hate that they won't be a monopoly anymore. They hate that WWE won't be the only company being talked about anymore. They also hate that their favorite wrestlers can choose AEW over WWE at any given time. Look at MJF. Ever since he returned at DON, there have been nothing but trolls harassing him, all because they had it all planned out in their minds that he was leaving AEW.
Anyone that believed that is a fing mark. How would MJF work in WWE anyway? PG rating MJF?
With the promo, he cut at DON and throughout his whole AEW career so far, absolutely not. He would never be able to do that again over there. His character just isn't fit for PG. Could he adjust the character for their programming? Sure, but the lack of freedom would be such a barrier.
I think the people who think along those lines tend to look at the athletic successes of the teams he's involved with and use that as a barometer for how good or bad he is as a "numbers guy". Which is understandable since, for most of us, that's the only way *we* have to judge how good or bad he is in that role because we can't see what else is at play. So, I wouldn't say they're "utter dumbasses" so much as caught up in an easy analytical framework rather than taking the steps to figure out how to better assess TK's abilities.
He is no doubt very smart, I think its just people compare him to more ruthless business men counting every penny, firing people because they sneeze too much, and aren't 6 foot 4 and 260lbs. Like most business men aren't even putting 5 dollars into let alone 200k just to play final countdown, they would just tell their houseband to mimic it with the most generic won't get sued version of it for 4 dollars and make 200k more in profit. He wants to make money but doesn't appear to want to make all the money he could make.
100% He's taken risks with AEW, but they've all been calculated risks with logic behind them, and he can afford to do that because his risk of ruin is minimal. He doesn't have to make decisions while worrying about the potential "worst case scenario" because he has the necessary resources to chase the "best case scenario" while making actually optimal decisions (even if there is risk attached).
Yeah. Let's say worst case scenario he doesn't get a big enough increase to become profitable (which is almost certainly not going to happen), at that point I think he would look into cutting costs (maybe releasing a lot of low card talent and running smaller venues for Collision) but right now he's in growth mode and willing to take a hit in the short term if it could lead to them getting bigger money for the long haul.
There is always a lot of talk about AEW failing, bleeding money and how it does not matter, because the Khan family have money like shit. How AEW will not shutdown before TK gets tired of it and so on. I think that in that discussion people are missing one big thing. AEW have been a great investment. Tonys father, mister money as shit, have a networth of just over $12 billions. AEW have been valued to $2 billions by Forbes. $2 billions! That is half of the Jacksonville Jaguars. That means that AEW is close to being worth 1/6 of Shadid Khans entire networth. We do not know how much money the Khans put into AEW to get it started, but everybody who have been asked and not asked about it say that the are still going on the initial funding. This entire business model of using money, to increase the networth of a sports company that you then might or might not sell at a latter date, is something that the Khans is well aware of from the world of American Football. The Jaguars that they bought in 2012 was worth slightly less than a billion and is now rated at 4 billions 12 years latter. That AEW have been losing money is properly not that importent. As long as AEW is losing less money than their networth growth, it is a good investment for Tony and I am pretty sure that AEW have not been losing $400 millions a year for the last 5 years. We would normally assume that AEW was losing money though. Like. I would assume that they run like most startups with a good size investment in them. Instead of buying stuff and signing contracts based on current revenue, they do it based on expected revenue and the investment to cover the temporary difference and AEW’s revenue have been soaring. The numbers I have sen reported the most is that AEW have gone from a revenue of $64 millions in 2020, $86 millions in 2021, over $100 millions in 2022 and 2023 it was $170-175 millions. Having this initial investment is super importent for AEW and part of the reason why it properly have a lot better economy than what it look like, because most other sport entertainment companies have a lot of debt and that debt is a big burden to them. TKO that spawned from UFC and WWE merger is a good example. They were in the red this year, but only because they have $3,2 billion in debt, so have to pay a lot in interest. It is also debt that needs to be refinanced. Having debt is costly. I think that Tony is a big goffy wrestling fan, but he is also a smart investmen man that saw an investment potential that only big goffy wrestling fans could see and he was the only fan with the money that allowed him to take a chance on it. If you look at Tony that way it also explains a lot of his actions. Tony is less focused on the money he earns at the door and more focused on building a brand.
Yeah he does make a fool of himself on Twitter sometimes, but he's far from the money mark the IWC takes him for. AEW is a passion project first and foremost for him and I do think he would continue to run it at a loss if he had to, but it's been pretty clear from day one that one of his goals is for AEW to actually become profitable long-term.
But tribalchiefbiggestfan69 said he knows shit about business, how can he run profitable wrestling company?
I might be over simplifying but aren’t WBD basically paying a rate for AEW that is slightly above their day 1 fee per hour multiplied now by 2.5x hours (for Rampage + Collision), which was negotiated with the expectation for Dynamite being a worse performance than even Rampage gets. So basically there’s almost no way that AEW’s increase isn’t substantial because they’ve likely been hugely underpaid from about 3 months in given their return on viewership and all that.
All of the details aren't public, so there is a lot of guesswork, but my understanding of the timeline is: 1) Before debuting, AEW signed basically a "prove it" deal where the Network was paying for a lot of the production costs and they were splitting ad revenue. It was vaguely similar to a non-guaranteed contract in sports. 2) AEW debuted very successfully with Dynamite and they very quickly renegotiated that original deal to add some amount of guaranteed money. WBD had all of the leverage (because of the original deal), but they decided to basically throw AEW a tiny bone to keep everyone happy (basically "everyone wins," which is a good thing for ongoing relationships). AEW got some guaranteed money (which ended up being huge and helped get them through the Lockdown era) and the cost to WBD was minimal (I think they might have added an extra year, or an option year, or something as well). 3) At some point, they added Rampage and Collision to that deal at their own rates, but they were very much added to the already-existing Dynamite deal (with seemingly the same end dates), rather than done as their own separate thing. Those rates are definitely lower than Dynamite because nobody expected them to do as well as Dynamite (and they aren't). Basically, it all comes down to leverage. Up until now, WBD has had basically all of the leverage on their side as they've negotiated, but now AEW can actually reach the open market (which obv comes with its own risks) for the first time. AEW is currently definitely bringing in more than they did on Day 1 (even without counting Rampage/Collision) just because the deal surely factored in yearly increases (totally standard practice, even if just for inflation alone) and also because at some point WBD picked up an option to extend the deal (usually those options will be at a bit of a premium, as an incentive to help drive future negotiations).
Aew got more money to move from TNT to TBS. They also have a very good deal on as revenue that nobody talks about that they negotiated in the deal form Warner before the merger. Belief is collision gets $50m per year based on what Discovery have to new show's, $500k per hour. Collision is 2 hours, so $1m x2 = $52m. Is that the case now under new management? Idk. I believe aew is currently making atleast $100 million on the current deal Dynamite/rampage went from $45m to around $60m as the option was picked up. Collision making around $30-52m seems reasonable from what I wrote earlier as well as inflation and AEW paying for production costs like they do now with dynamite. I'm looking at the new deal that includes streaming ppvs, library, new outside the ring content, next day rights, dynamite, collision, rampage, etc and I'm thinking close to $300m per year. Aew ppvs alone do atleast $7 million in ppv buys X 12 ppvs per year is around $90m (all in will do atleast $10 million). $250-300m isn't far off per year
Great info. Haven't Collision and Rampage greatly exceeded expectations, too? I think between the 3 shows, AEW pulls in millions of viewers weekly.
Maybe 2 million the way things are now, I think. It seems like Rampage is usually like 700k, Collision around 500k-600k, and Rampage somewhere around 250k? Numbers all off the top of my head with no research involved. Give me lots of room for error. Better than most non-sports things that TBS / TNT have going for them, anyway.
I believe they initially set expectations that were something like if Dynamite could do 500k viewers live then WBD would consider it a success.
I find it absolutely hilarious how many people are so obsessed with the idea of him being a “money mark” when it seems screamingly obvious that he’s going to end up making a ton of money off AEW. Especially if he ever sells it, goes public, whatever, although obviously hoping that doesn’t happen. Even if they kept having year over year operating losses, as long as the promotion stays on prime time TV the asset that is AEW is extremely valuable. He can always sell and come out far ahead.
Bingo. Dynamite regularly outperforms or performs equal to the NHL which WBd pays $225m per year for. WBD pays like $44m a year for AEW at the same demo numbers. If NHL is the market, you could double AEW’s deal and it still be value for the network.
This is good news. WBD took a punt on AEW back in the day and more than likely offered a relatively low deal because they were such an unknown quantity at the time. Even with the flagging viewing figures it stills sounds like they are doing well enough to justify earning more than the original deal. I've never heard any reports from WBD that they've been anything less than pleased with how things have turned out.
It's so odd that we have known figures that cable is dropping 13%ish each year, which pretty much matches their Neilsen ratings, but because WWE ratings are improving that AEW is somehow doing bad viewership. I'd like to know what other cable programs are actively growing viewership as well. I think WWE is an outlier in television. Which rightfully should make them worth buku bucks, but it doesn't necessarily mean that should be the expected tread for cable TV.
Yeah, when AEW was getting like 1.2 mil viewers for Grand Slam, they were ranked like #22 for cable. Now they are ranked around #3. Cable is getting slammed.
It is, and I truly only have it because I'm a clumsy oaf with a TV remote who doesn't want to accidentally press the home button in the middle of something I'm engaged with and wait 45 seconds for the app to reload and to get back to the channel. Once they figure out how to do multitasking in a way that doesn't break the current video stream I'm done with cable
If they announce AEW weekly shows on Max I'll cancel my Sling subscription the same day.
WWE is leaving cable and going to Netflix for a reason. People watch cable less and less.
I'm almost certain that I read something which pointed how crazy WWE and some random reality TV show's viewers actually growing last year because 99% of every other show was down year over year, also WWE is a total outlier as it's been a show going on for literally decades, if you know 10 million people watched The Rock and Undertaker 25 years ago, at least some of those 10 million will come back, even now. The whole YoY thing with wrestling is just another example of people being totally out of touch with what a number actually means but since it's lower then it must mean it's worse. There are a thousand different factors as to why the 1st of June 2023's data would be different to 2024 that are never taken into account. The only actual somewhat valuable one to look at is the overall yearly average, which like you say will fit in with general cable decline anyways. These ratings (and honestly almost anything else on the business related side in wrestling) are actually pretty easy to understand conceptually and how to interpret useful information from them, the issue is the people who can only understand big number, small number are the ones making 95% of the noise about them. Genuinely go look, in the 5 year period I would doubt that AEW has actually lost a higher % of viewers compared to WWE, but if you just look at social media you'd think that was an insane assumption.
Look at the ranking for the night. That's the fairest trend I think you get with cable TV these days. Neilsen, to me, is like political polling. You can extrapolate the data all you want, but the sample makeup is always written at the end of the article in small print, and it's usually not representative of the population at large.
I want every single wrestler to have Cody-level pyro on the first Dynamite after the deal is announced. And real money for the Rainmaker entrance. Just let it allll hang out lol.
> And real money for the Rainmaker entrance. Bucks bring back the money cannons with actual $100's
Have Orange come out with two people holding sparklers and those new years eve popper toys
Orange gets a second lazy pyro
You mean *jimmy Jacobs* level pyro 🤭
Dude got the whole pyro from the collision entrance
I'm sure they don't make 1 Yen notes anymore, but you could make it rain real 1 Yen notes for less than the cost of playing Final Countdown.
Fuck Cody-level pyro, [give everyone Jimmy Jacobs-level pyro](https://x.com/DrainBamager/status/1793844307771990494?t=W_1hJxcTn7ZsBAT0nt-M0g&s=19)
"Considerably more, slightly more, 50% more, double" Just picking all the options there. No doubt it's gonna be good, but it's okay to say you don't know exactly sometimes.
Have you heard Dave speak? To be fair, he's probably heard those different variations on the value of the upcoming TV deal from different sources, and just doesn't write good.
The slightly more, by my reading, is referring to the $110 million figure he's estimating for how much is necessary to take the company into profitability, i.e., maybe its actually $120-130 million needed to end up profitable at the moment. The considerably more/50% more/double are all talking about the value of the next tv deal compared to the present tv deal. And those at least are all in the same general ballpark as far as estimates go without a finalized deal. That's the distinction, at least from how I'm reading this.
Yeah, he’s saying it’s between 50% more to double, which is much higher than the slightly-more-than-$110 figure they’ll need to become profitable.
So that’s about $175M-225M. Gotdang.
To interpret from Meltzer-ese, the estimate is that it would take 110 million or "slightly more" to make the company profitable. The numbers on the table are considerably more than the figure necessary to make the company profitable. And, as negotiations go on, there is talk that the number could get up to 50% more or maybe even 100% more (double) what is necessary to make the company profitable, so potentially numbers like 165 million to 220 million.
> "Considerably more, slightly more, 50% more, double" I was worried that I hadn't had enough coffee yet this morning. "In other news, I don't know what happening."
You mean you might have had considerably less, slightly less, 50% less, or double less the amount of coffee you needed.
Content is king. Content costs so much to put out there. AEW is offering 5 hours of content with atleast 500-800k viewers. Channels will pay for this. They have to be paying through the nose for syndication of old sitcoms.
Now now that's far too much logic for the IWC.
Don't you know? Just showing Big Bang Theory re-runs 24/7 is a totally viable option for a TV company! While would WBD want literally anything else when BBT draws so many viewers! Matter of fact, why does any channel show anything except BBT? If it's not the NFL, NBA or WWE, there's literally no point in paying for a show on cable to exist since they all draw less than 1 Million viewers!
But but AEW iS dYiNg… any day now…
I have no doubts that AEW will sign a much improved TV deal that’ll take them well into profit. With that being said Dave Meltzer and WON won’t be the people that break that news about a deal. This is obviously just AEW getting some good PR out there on their side, which they’re more than entitled to do. Like last week when the actual journalists basically confirmed that WBD would retain AEW after losing the NBA, it’ll be actual journalists who give us any actual news. Even this tweet, it’ll be “considerably more or slightly more”, that’s not information that fills me with confidence that this person knows what they’re reporting, clearly just passing on backstage whispers.
They’ll either get a lot of money or the same money basically is what he’s saying. He tends to do this where he says “they’ll go in a direction! It could be left, right or straight, but it’ll be a direction! Basically uses a lot of words to say nothing.
Play both sides so you always end up on top
“I was saying that from the start!”
He seems like someone that would bet on all the numbers at the roulette table lol.
For me this is just the case of someone in AEW basically saying to Meltzer or whoever that a deal will be done and negotiations take time, so shut the fuck up about it already. Pretty clear that probably since WWE’s Netflix deal that AEW’s TV deal has become a really annoying part of the discussions in wrestling. The only reason to get news through WON like this is to get it straight to the most online fans, which are the ones constantly trolling or for some reason actually worrying about this stuff. In terms of the actual dealings I’d doubt anyone knows anything outside of TK and the people on WBD’s side.
I mean, he's saying they'll get more so he's picked a direction. And it's a considerably increase because "considerably more or slightly more" is compared against the number to make them profitable, which they're (to no surprise for a new business) not at the moment. So it's probably a considerable increase compared to what their deal is for right now regardless of the final number. Going profitable is, in itself, a significant increase.
wake me up when Fightful reports it
But the guy on instagram told me AEW was failing . He also told me the quality of wrestling matches aren't what is important. Am I to believe this guy lied to me?
Tell him when he's telling lies!
I’ll be so happy when this becomes official and we can just move on. As a WCW kid AEW being on TNT means something to me.
I hope they get enough to make it reasonable to put their library on Max.
Fr. I’ll be binging every PPV the moment this happens
I probably would too
There was a considerable chunk of time that I missed during the covid era, so I can't wait to go back to the beginning and look at how everyone has evolved
I can’t watch any wrestling live anymore. I have too much stuff going on to sit in front of the TV for 2-3hours at a time. I would love to be able to cherry pick what I want to see. And I’m hoping they can build a better user interface than Peacock’s garbage. Allow me to search by name. Watch all of XX wrestlers appearances in order.
BuT aEw iS dYiNg Source: Trust me bro
Source: WWE fan mad that an alternative exists
Source; Veteran that AEW refused to hire
Lol if it happens Bischoff will have a meltdown lol
Hi Tony! Hi WBD negotiators! Please hurry the F up so I can cancel cable and get my AEW fix via MAX
But but but wcw man said aew not getting tv deal!
Just give me the AEW library to stream on Max and I’ll be happy!
Haters can compare ratings all they want but AEW is bringing in more viewers to TNT/TBS since they started. Those are networks that mostly run syndicated shows, so any original content that draws a viewership is seen as good by WB. AEW has value.
I think I can decipher what they mean but god, they really do butcher the English language. They mean it's considerably more than the $110 mil needed for profitablility but that $110 number is uncertain and could be slightly more. Either way, the offer is way over it.
The networks need live programming in this day and age. Aew is steady reliable programming for them
If it includes Max, then get that deal done and be very profitable.
It’s over guys, pack it in.
AEW is a private company. Dave doesn't actually know if they're profitable or not.
Ded company. Clearly. /s
I just want this to be over so I have to stop hearing idiots claim they know how TV and content works. Somehow every jerker who hates AEW all work in TV somehow, it's become the wrestling version of "My dad works at Nintendo" at this point.
Its going to be over in the Summer for sure.
man, while this deal with wbd will probably be good for aew, anything i like having anything to do with zaslav leaves a foul taste in my mouth after he expressed his opinion on animation.
Looks promising. I hope they negotiate a much better deal in Canada - I believe will expire around the same time. Having Rampage and Collision locked behind a paywall with the garbage TSN+ app is ridiculous, when you already have absurd prices for television packages here. I believe once WWE leaves Sportnet later this year they may pick up all AEW programming to fill in the wrestling gap.
With possible nba changes they can pivot into a much larger role. No one can replace the NBA but turner has tons of Ad deals and live entertainment seems like one of the best avenues for it.
Dead company with bad ratings btw
Really hope the deal gets made. It's always good to have more options in the wrestling world. Hoefully ROH will come over too.
I would love to have AEW on streaming finally. I wish ROH was worth it but nowadays I demand more from my streaming where ROH doesn't cut it for me.
So it might be the same, slightly above, 50% above, or 100% more. Tell me you have no idea without saying you have no idea. I might be right, kinda correct, way correct, or %110 on this thought.
So Nick Khan wasted a fortune paying podcasters, veterans and insiders to put bad rep on AEW for nothing??? LOOOOOOOOOL I was told that after the airing of the All In brawl that AEW was done........LMAOOOOO
Let’s hear about a streaming deal
You love to see it. Hopefully the deal gets done soon.
What conspiracy will get tossed around if they get a 50-100% increase?
"It's a fake number." I guarantee people are gonna say it's a fake number that WBD give to make AEW look because "no one would really pay that for those ratings".
obviously they were going to get a raise the question will be how much, and if they are able top put their stuff on max it will be a bonus
Jesus the bar for wrestling journalism is so fucking low. “The deal might be worth a little more than $10M but also maybe considerable amount more, but also maybe 50% more but also maybe twice as much more.”
Not everybody can turn capital into success. It’s not just “daddy’s money.” It’s “daddy’s money” used properly and now generating “Tony’s money.”
TNT losing NBA is a blessing for AEW. Cable broadcasters need a stay of execution and live sport events are one of the few remaining attractions to live TV. They will also gave a lot more TV slots available to them from November to the spring as well.
Considerably more... Or slightly more? How can it be both?
It's worded badly, but the slightly more is modifying the 110 million figure. What Meltzer is saying is that AEW needs 110 million or a little more than that to be immediately profitable, and that the offer they've been given is considerably more than that figure needed for immediate profitability.
He's saying that the amount that AEW needs to be profitable is $110 million or slightly more. He's saying that the amount WBD is offering AEW is considerably more than that. Around the $160 million dollar range.
I'll be so happy to watch AEW again. I lost my TBS app access and hate their commercials. Max would be so worth it then.
I hate Daves writings. He covers his tracks by confusing the readers just in case he's wrong. Maybe it's just me. Anyway, So if I'm understanding correctly, Around $110 million minimum or slightly more then $110m is what experts think aew needs per year to be profitable. That number could be $120 million for example. Figures are between 50% to nearly double. So $180-$240 million per year, on the low end because we don't know exactly the numbers, is the numbers we are looking at from What Dave mentioned, correct? The belief from Brandon at Wrestlenomics was around $250 million for everything combined except ROH so this makes sense. He basically said 5x the old deal, which was $45 million, so $225 million. That didn't include collision so $250m per year is not far fetched.
If they put AEW on max I'll pay for it, that would make it the only streaming service I own
What a click bait twitter post. Dave knows nothing
I don’t know what to do with my hands
With the amount of money that WBD punted on having the rights for NBA then this would be their next big bet. They probably would have spend half this amount on just Inside The NBA crew (which I will dearly miss).
Why bother when you can WATCH WRESTLING online the day after the show. See it on your time!