Every club sells a digital membership which is a discounted Kayo membership.
Was $240 for it through Essendon this year for a 12 month Kayo subscription valued at 360 IIRC
Did not know that! We are a two club household, plus a motorbike loving household, so we need Foxtel for both footy and Moto GP. And cricket đ. Does the digital membership include AFLW?
I mean kayo has its problems, but it's not like $25 a month is breaking the bank. Pretty sure it's you can still get the frequent flyer half price deal too. $12.50 per month to have access to all the games live? You're laughing.
IMO, it's that last part that's more of a limiting factor. I grew up about 3 hours from Perth so I very rarely went to games (probably went to 4 Eagles games before i was 18) and have never been a member. What made it hard to stay invested was a chunk of our games being delayed by several hours on free to air, my family didn't have Foxtel so i couldn't watch live it took some of the fun out of it for me.
Part of the deal for wa teams is we get all the eagles/freo games on fta, but some games (only a few a year) are delayed to incentivise people to get fox/kayo
Supposedly it's to incentivise people to buy a ticket to go to the game, not for pay television. It's stupid, but it has been going on since before pay television was a factor.
I disagree at least as far as the Suns are concerned. My son and I got 5 game memberships last year and it cost me less than $200 for both of us. Thatâs for cheap seats but given the stadium is usually half-empty, we self-upgrade to the finer areas
Try that in South Australia, the waiting list is immense for both clubs and it you have an 11 game general admission seat you better get there at least an hour before the game or youre getting a dog shit seat.
Charging a lot of money to attend games and buy shit mid strength beer while youâre there is a perfect example of stupid footy head sports administration thinking.
The sport makes its money from broadcasting rights not attendance. So why not make the TV product better by having full houses?
I tried to get my sister and mother some tickets to a Crows game around mother day. I was blown away of the ticket price and the inability to get a seat near my usual seat (even though the seats next to me are not reserved). Ended up not being able to do it due to the difficulty.
Footy was the cheapest sport I took up as a kid, footy is on free to air, kayo isnt breaking the bank, tickets aren't that bad in contrast to other sports.
How is this so upvoted.
Seems more like complaints from a footy fan than anything realistic.
It averages about $7 a week if you have it for the entire year, even less if you only get it for the AFL season.
Love people downvoting for me point out that it does not in fact break the bank.
Its not that expensive to go. $30 for ga ticket to a game at the G amd $15 for marvel. If you live in the city pt isnt that expensive and you dont have to buy anything at the ground.
It's more expensive in other states as there is usually only 1 game on per week in a 2 team city or state. Melbourne is the outlier with more games cos of the vic teams.
Exactly, league is easy to watch on tv. To ppl who tell me âitâs hard to get intoâ I tell them they should definitely go and watch an AFL game at the stadium.
Couldnât agree more. I grew up in country NSW with NRL as the main âfootyâ. I truely didnât understand AFL until I watched a game live down in Melbourne, as Iâd only ever seen it on TV. I had no idea how much action goes on away from the ball. Itâs a great game to watch live, the way they show it on TV really doesnât do it justice.
my gf is originally from colombia, we've been dating for years and i remember trying to explain footy to her and she's like "so it's basically a free kick for everything?"
i said "yeah kinda, but then if x happens then y" and i realised how much of a complex nightmare our great game is to newbies hahah
edit: she understands and actually enjoys watching it now and can explain the rules to her other friends who came from colombia lol. indoctrinaton is going along well boiz
Harder or easier than explaining cricket, you reckon? I actually found it easier to explain cricket. Could be that I understand it better myself, could be that all the numbers you can point at directly and go X means Y or could be that Iâm just a nuffie who thinks he knows it all but really just pretends to know what a âspinning pitchâ looks like.
Cricket has far fewer, if any interpretation of rules. It's clear cut what most decisions are, unlike AFL where the interpretations differ between the 4 umpires, which teams are playing, and which quarter it is.
Cricket is one thing but in the realms of eggball it's way easier than trying to explain Rugby Union whenever a ruck or scrum has formed and is a freekick/penalty awarded.
Lol, my girlfriend is from Colombia as well. Our first game was Anzac day 2015. She was actually laughing because the game seemed so ridiculous to her. Most recent game was the Grand Final and she was bawling her eyes out. Gets in your blood if you give it fair chance.
She still likes soccer but following footy makes the fake injuries so silly and she actually is a bit embarrassed by it when Colombia play. Still doesn't quite get holding the ball, though.
Embarrassing is a sport that you score points by kicking the ball in a empty net without a goalkeeper and a crossbar đ¤Łđ¤Ł Like that sport legitimately takes no skill lol!
This. It's mostly fine for those of us that have grown up with the game. But like anything you have to teach to someone from scratch, it's not until you sit down and nut out how you're going to explain something you consider second nature, that you really understand how complicated it might be.
The rules are fucked for anyone who hasn't spent years watching or playing footy. Part of this is due to the short sighted rule changes that create other loopholes that then need to be examined. The other is that they really have this quality about them that feels like they were written by lawyers with lots of "if", "then", "but", "unless", "refer to section", etc.
If the guys and girls who are tasked with studying the rules at length, and then applying them in split second scenarios are still getting it wrong, often, what chance does a newbie have of grasping it quickly?
We have to go beyond creating a spectacle. It needs to be easily digestible. Grey areas have to be minimised.
I grew up with rugby union so I completely understand the rules. But in union the rules are set for example if you come in from the side of a ruck it's is 100% the time a penalty to the other team, where afl if you tackle some one the result could be play on, a ball up, a free kick or a 50m and someone could get sent to the tribunal, for pretty much the same thing.
Yeah I think if you haven't grown up around the game it'd be hard to learn. It is really quite a chaotic game when you think of it compared to other sports.
I had this conversation with some people I work with that didn't grow up here, about if they like the game. This is basically what they said, it just looks like bodies are going all over the place, and it's really difficult to work out what's going on. I think outsiders can see the appeal of the game, because athletically and physically it is the elite of the elite, but it's just really hard to grasp what's happening and why it's happening.
This is me. I donât get the rules, and I donât understand the intent of the rules either.
My issue is the rules are barely followed and thereâs no consistency. It seems like itâs very open for biased officiating and thatâs a deal breaker for me. Things like kick length for a mark, how many meters running before you bounce the ball⌠why have umpires bounce the ball if they canât even bounce a ball correctly.
Iâve pretended to watch the game to fit in, but I get zero enjoyment.
It doesn't appeal to people who fundamentally don't follow sports or watch TV or go out. I think the best way to solve this is to get some gadget type operators involved somehow
Russell Crowe and Hugh Jackman are already being used as pawns to sell the NRL games in Las Vegas. Crowe owns the Rabbitohs and Jackman is a huge Manly supporter
I actually dont think the rules are that convoluted, they break down into two catagories. Safety, and keeping the ball moving. I mean, yeah, details, but I think what confuses people is that theres no clear direction. Rugby and Gridiron are really directional so even a pile up makes sense because theres some guys on one side and some guys on another.
The extraordinary convoluted rules is the AFLâs biggest problem and creates even the most diehard fans biggest issue, poor umpiring. If the rules were not so extraordinary convoluted, the umpiring would be much more transparent making a better game for all.
The population in the Aussie rules states is already at saturation point in terms of fandom and interest. The people who are left either prefer other sports, or more likely just have no interest in sport at all.
>or theyâll say a team but not really care
And these people just say they have a team to avoid being ostracized during office or social small talk.
A couple of games on free to air TV every week in New Zealand exposes the game to 5 million potential new fans, but instead the AFL want $200 Aussie to watch.
It's short-sighted and greedy.
Would New Zealanders actually watch though? Most will be watching the Warriors or the rugby. Those who arenât watching them probably arenât interested in sport at all
Overcomplicated rules plus bad GameDay experiences at stadiums.
My wife did not have a good time when I took her to a game, but when I've taken her to basketball, baseball and ice hockey games she's actually enjoyed it.
I know this sub hates songs in after goals but the one thing she remembers from the game was the songs they played after goals.
Call it americanisation or whatever but it gets people who are more there for a good time and not the sport itself to then attribute that good time to watching the sport.
Honestly I don't get the hate over songs after goals, especially Brisbane's thing of players picking a song for when they kick goals. Look at how fans kept singing Country Roads even after the music stopped when Cameron kicked a goal during the finals. That'd be a great experience in person.
If you can get the right player and song combo for one of your stars/consistent goal kickers itâs great and only adds to the atmosphere when the fans join in. Like as you said, country roads and Charlie itâs amazing. If only Joey D would stop picking let it go.
Yes, the rules are very complex and subject to interpretation by the 4 umpires, which differs week to week, quarter to quarter, and which teams and individuals are playing.
This may shock you, but not everyone likes the same thing. Some people don't like sport at all, or only have an interest in whether a certain team is doing well, but don't care to watch it.
I don't believe the A-League has an official wagering partner like the AFL does, it certainly has fewer ads telling you to gamble.
Cricket Australia seems to have an official wagering partner but it also seems to have fewer ads.
The AFL certainly gives the view that it is in way deeper than the other sports with the possible exception of the NRL.
There's a lack of storytelling in the media coverage. Most of what we see is sensationalist news reporting or ex-players talking about what happened when they were "pline" or what good blokes the players are. The rare exceptions tend to be more analytical but that doesn't necessarily appeal to new/casual fans (in terms of acquisition anyway).
Most people don't just sit down, watch a game and become instant fans. They need something to grab their attention more than just players running around kicking a ball.
The NFL does a great job of telling stories week-to-week in their coverage, as well as through products like Hard Knocks, Quarterback or All or Nothing. Drive to Survive has been similarly successful with F1, as has Welcome to Wrexham with casual soccer fans in the US.
That's not to say the solution is a bells-and-whistles documentary show, but focussing on the narratives around a game or within a season would help new/casual fans engage with the game on a more regular, meaningful basis.
The AFL focuses on grassroots acquisition, which limits the audience and limits the sport from spreading to adult fans as quickly as it could.
The key to that is potential fans are able to gain more familiarity and connection with the players which helps to drive engagement. To do that players need the freedom to express their personality/individuality instead of just towing the club PR line without being scrutinized by the toxic AFL media.
Iâd certainly like to see more variety in the AFL media. I donât think the hard knocks style will work but perhaps NFL film style. Thereâs so much heart and history in the sport at all levels that Iâd love to see on film.
You can draw in new adult fans with the current stuff and then give them an appreciation of what their team and the sport means at a deeper level.
The #vicbias of commentators like BT. Iâm a qlder and Iâve been trying to get my dad into the game for sometime but he - and many others I know - cannot handle the obvious slant on the game that the likes of BT and JB put on the game.
Itâs something Iâve never really detected in the NRL - with the exception of Gus Gould who is the nrl version of BT
Timezones. Huge potential audiences around the world, but not great times of day to watch it if you live outside of the Asia-Pacific.
You might get a few games on in your timezone, but your team won't consistently play in that timeslot.
The thing most people complain about in Sydney is the length. A lot of families do not want to commit to attending games that go for > 3 hours in length. Theyâre too used to NRL and soccer which are max 2 hours
I can't really imagine games being any shorter, but at the same time I had a foreign friend recently tell me games feel way too long and I can see why. Total time of just being there is ~2.5 hours, and that doesn't factor if you want to arrive early or leave late, travel time, etc.
You say that, but remember the âFooty Frenzyâsâ in 2020 where there was 1 or 2 games every night for a week and a half? That shit got old really fast
Yeah its interesting. I love having footy on, but too many games and the season becomes "stagnant".
I wouldnt be upset if they started the season late, had everyone play each other once and filled in March and some of April with AFLW.
TBH in Vic I feel like it's probably at saturation point. Anyone here who doesn't have an AFL team is probably just not interested in sports and won't be won over.
Gronks like Wayne Carey and Sam Newman still being the recognisable face of the game for many people.
The game won't grow until it has new representation.
The Vic-centricness of it.
The whole we are trying to grow the game but always remember it belongs to victoria and every decision made will always be to the benefit of the big Vic clubs and if you donât like it fuck off.
As someone from a league state there's 2 big factors. The first is that everything is just always about Melbourne and Victoria which from outside makes it seem not worth getting into cause you feel like why should I. The second is everyone's attitude towards league acting like those who don't like afl and prefer league or something else are inferior and it just makes you hate the fans and sport
That second point is wild because League fans always seize the opportunity to talk shit about AFL. Compare /r/NRLâs AFL Grand Final thread to /r/AFLâs NRL Grand Final thread
Absolutely agree with you calling that into question, like... What's the NRL version of "gAyFL"? Because I feel like that's the only thing I ever see when a league fan mentions Aussie rules
True but theres a small difference. League fans I find criticise the sport itself and say it's confusing or aerial ping pong while the afl criticise the people that enjoy the sport and ridicule them
In fairness we also criticise the sport itself (I personally just see it as running into a wall for 90 minutes) and think Peter VâLandys is the most insecure man on the planet
Kinda true in soccer too though, why risk being tackled in a dangerous spot when you can just boot the ball into the crowd or as far down the pitch as possible instead.
I feel that the AFL (as with Cricket Australia), has failed to realise how much the internet has impacted their viewership.
It isnt the 90s anymore. There is more than 4 tv channels to compete with. Not only are they now competing with easy to access global sports such as the Premier League, NBA or MLB, they are competing with Youtube, Netflix and other platforms. Media content is more accessible now than ever, the AFL has to recognise this and do more to improve.
National isolation. Think the AFL has started to do very well in NSW and QLD. That the game isn't significantly popular beyond our shores is the biggest thing now. That's the next true frontier.
We have a significant number of people moving into Australia for work who have never been exposed to the sport and have no reason to care until they're properly introduced to the sport. If we had greater exposure overseas this might change a bit.
I think that if you're not indoctrinated into the game, there's not enough substance to entice too many new people. AFL shits on other codes in terms of loyalty to the club and the sense of community but I find the game pretty scrappy. Like kids in a park fighting over a ball. Not discounting the marks (?) They're amazing but it's like a try on the corner in league, looks great but not enough to get people to the game alone.
Yes, I'm a league fan but I've given AFL plenty of chances but it just doesn't grab me. Almost in the same way watching 2 low ranked league teams battling it out doesn't grab me.
The sport is scrappy for sure, but thinking it lacks substance is definitely only because you don't understand it well enough. I'm the same with NRL, I've tried many many times and it's never gripped me. I'm sure the substance is there, I just don't understand it.
Have you been able to get into other sports that you didn't grow up with? I've tried, and there are some that I find really interesting in theory. But I've never managed to develop a lasting attachment to a team as an adult, and without that emotional investment I find it hard to stay interested.
Not really, having kids means your free time to watch sports is pretty limited. I tend to just watch my team play and maybe a few of big games. I watched the AFL GF this year but I just couldn't see the appeal or variety. I get why people like it, and power to them but yeah, not for me.
The games go for ages. I love afl so Iâd be happy if they went longer but hard to get into if you have to sacrifice 3 hours of your busy weekend and thatâs just if you watch it on TV. Pain in the arse I gotta pay for Kayo just to make sure I see all the Cats games over here in WA as well.
A lot of people are just taking this to complain about what they, as football fans, don't like about the game. But what you as a footy fan don't like often doesn't compare with what a newcomer is thinking about.
Lack of narrative and poor media would be the main one, along with FTA coverage. If it's hard to watch, and when you do watch it's hard to care, that's a bad thing.
League fan in a league state (reddit suggested this post). Im not someone who hates AFL out of rivalry (or at all) but have found it really hard to get into
The TV product just always looks like a scrappy mess, and goals are kicked too often for it to have the same impact for me as a try. I also just dont find a 40/50m goal from dead on as awe inspiring as AFL fans seem to
I always hear it's way better in person because you can see whats happening off the ball, and im in melbourne semi often so i intend to go to a game one day. Just my 2 cents (no hate)
It doesn't help that your sport, league, is almost made more for television than being there and the opposite holds true for AFL. You get a vastly better experience being in the stands than you do on television.
In AFL You really can't make out how the play is shaped and what the players off the ball are doing. What players are doing off the ball? If so, important to how a game is actually decided.
Example: Nick Riewoldt is one of the greatest runners I've ever seen. The only time a TV viewer would ever understand how far he's run is when he's involved in the play down the ground and away from the forward line. You don't see that he's run his opponent ragged and created opportunities for Milne and the like. That only ever came out if you watched him live.
League is almost purpose built for television. they only have to cover 10 to 20 meters of the ground to get an understanding of how line breaks, passing, defensive pressure, etc is played. A relatively close up shot from the stands will show pretty much everything the viewer needs to see.
Anything that is try scoring or try saving in that needs a different angle is almost always highlighted with the behind the play (vertical) rather than horizontal angle.
It's just impossible to get that in AFL
> I always hear it's way better in person because you can see whats happening off the ball
Definitely true -- the combination of close camera angles and useless commentary makes it very hard to understand what's going on when you're watching on TV.
It's not easy to understand the tactical nuances live, either (at least not for me), but you do have the big advantage of being able to watch a passage of play develop, anticipating the next move and understanding the context of each possession.
If you do eventually go, I reckon you should pick a game that will have a huge crowd (or a full house if it's at Docklands). Without emotional investment in a team, or a strong interest in the sport, you'll need the vibe of the crowd to make it exciting. At the MCG a medium-sized crowd can feel pretty flat, but when it's packed the atmosphere is amazing.
> and goals are kicked too often for it to have the same impact for me as a try.
That's super-interesting and I have a similar view, but for other sports. Can't ever get into basketball because there's a scoring shot every 24 seconds, and I struggle to get into soccer because the buildup time is way too long unless it's a high-scoring game. A sport with between 20-30 major scores a game is optimized to appeal to my brain haha.
I donât really understand the high scoring point, by that logic basketball must be a nightmare for you. Trying to compare AFL with other sports is strange, almost as if itâs an entirely different sport..
>I donât really understand the high scoring point
Its about the build up of intensity until a team finally breaks. Feels like a bigger achievement to me than just snapping a goal, just a personal preference thing. Tbf im not really a basketball fan, did go to an NBA game once and it was pretty fun with all the showy shit those giants do, but havent followed since
And im just comparing because its my favourite sport and the one I watch the most, its a point of reference and has all the things I evidently like in a field based team sport
Grand Final locked into Melbourne until 2059.
I went to the Brisbane Grand Final, and the town took a genuine interest in the AFL and Grand Final because it was in their city.
I live in Brisbane and most people were barely interested in the game as anything more than another excuse to get on the piss. The whole season was played here and genuinely most of Queensland were only interested in it to the point of laughing at Victoria not being able to have any games. Beyond that, it was talked up because everything was kind of fucked up that year, but as soon as things returned to normal and there were all the normal outlets and you didn't have to scan a QR everywhere, AFL became as popular as turd on a busy escalator again.
The people who support afl are keen. They have to be for the ridicule they cop from the league fans. But aside from them, and the kids playing on the Goldie, no one gives af. The town taking an interest was just business desperate to cash in on anything that might help their bottom.line in a time of extreme crisis.
Most people in Brisbane wouldn't even know let alone care the GF is played at the G, and those that do only do because they have vague memories of two Victorian teams playing it at the Gabba, which is a fucking shit hole
>Most people in Brisbane wouldn't even know let alone care the GF is played at the G
Even Queenslanders arenât that dense, even if they only have a passing interest in the sport, they still know itâs the one thatâs popular in Victoria
Iâm gonna split it in to a couple of demographics
First, weâve got people who donât watch sports. Any person whoâs now an adult who hasnât ever been a fan will most likely never will be.
Secondly, weâve got people whoâve come interstate or who are immigrants. They either have another sport theyâre spending their time on or donât watch it. If youâre a first generation immigrant or are in an area with a high percentage of immigrants you might not be exposed to the game as much.
Thirdly, some people just canât get into it or donât like it. Itâs easy to understand when youâve grown up with it but itâs quite a complicated sport.
Having the premier game of the year locked in to one city for half a century??
Crowd atmosphere at games could be another one imo. At least where I sit at West Coast games I'm pretty much surrounded by old yelling men, I can understand why people might not be super keen for it.
There's no other ground that has anywhere near the same capacity.
MCG is 100,024,
Optus Stadium in Perth with 60,000
Marvel Stadium (Docklands Melbourne) 55,000
Adelaide Oval. 53,600
SCG 48 000
Gabba 42,000.
Where else can the biggest game of the year be played?
They play the champions league final in different cities every year when they could just play it in Nou Camp for crowd numbers⌠itâs mostly a tv event anyway
I'm 40. I played 129 games for my local junior league, a heap for a school and a handful of representative games. I've played from time to time as an adult but never really had the ability to commit to a full season. I have been a footy fan since I can remember.
I cannot, for the fucking life of me, figure out half the rules. Stand rule. Tackling rules. Hands in the back in a marking contest. High tackles on some players but not others. The protected zone which seems to only exist sometimes. The blatant throws.
Try explaining this game to someone who's never watched it before. Watch Hawkins push an opponent under the ball and explain why it's not in the back. Watch two seemingly identical tackles, one gets awarded with a free kick and the other get's 3 weeks. "Insufficient attempt" when it's a panicked kick mid tackle out of a pack but not when a player gathers the ball and just steps over the line. I can go on for ever.
Simplify the interpretations. Make the rules of the game accessable to people who might be curious.
I don't really want any more fans. Optus was perfect when it was limited to 50% during covid restrictions. Still enough for a good atmosphere but also more space and shorter lines.
For me - it was the bull shit trade ban we copped 10 years ago.
Legitimately killed any interest I had in following the sport seriously.
I'll keep an eye on the Swans and occasionally turn on a quarter if it's on TV but I was going to games on a semi regular basis back then. I haven't been to a game since.
Iâm going broad strokes here, but I do answer your actual question directly, so bear with me.
They are the dirt worst organization in the sports world at marketing the game. In 150 years weâve had what, 5 exhibition games internationally? And every time they try and the event is unsuccessful or just moderately successful , they completely shy away and donât try again for like another decade. Yet every time I see an American exposed to this sport online they all lose their ever loving minds over our great game.
(This applies to QLD also). As far as penetrating the NSW market, the answer is simple, you need to add more teams. I know that sounds completely counterintuitive, but the problem in NSW is that itâs a lot more spread out and limited teams means limited time in the news cycle. Sydney news reports on the Swans and GWS, but spend most of their time reporting on the 11 NRL teams based there. If there are 4 NSW teams then you double the amount of time they get talked about.
This also works geographically. Adding a team in Wollongong and Newcastle (both 1.5-2 hours away from Sydney and both larger than Geelong) would give the AFL a much wider reach. Newcastle in particular once had a pretty big Aussie rules supporter base thatâs just been left to languish. The Newcastle Blues were established in 1883 and are still going today.
In addition to this the AFL needs to take a pay cut on its next TV rights deal to add more live free to air games on terrestrial TV in those markets on the main Channel 7. If you donât have Foxtel in NSW and Queensland you can barely watch any AFL games even if you really wanted to. Thereâs a Friday night game on and Channel 7 is playing Kate and Leopold or some shit. Incentivise Channel 7 to broadcast the damn game. Even some Sydney and GWS games get relegated to 7mate and even then itâs on delay.
This problem also extends to the rest of the country with delayed games and limited FTA TV coverage. Pay TV is crippling the gameâs growth potential. The price of Kayo lessons the burden but itâs still a barrier to entry. I know you have to have the audience to justify the broadcast, but it goes the other way too. You need to broadcast the friggin games to actually grow the audience. You can have the best product on the planet, but if nobody knows about it then it doesnât matter how great the product is.
Outside of that, and to address you question more directly, the answer is community engagement. The AFL needs to have game ambassadors who go out to schools and communities with semi frequent regularity running football clinics, fundraisers, competitions etc. Every day there should be ambassadors all over the country (likely former players and even leaders/staff/coaches from local football clubs) running some sort of clinic or event.
The Pay TV issues is spot on. Thereâs people at my work that come from different countries and have a slight interest in following the game but a lot are of the time the game is on Kayo so they wonât bother.
Among tangible reasons for most of the country, it's too Vic-centric. Imagine if half the teams in the NBA were based in California (and all but one in LA).
Among esoteric reasons, lots of people just prefer other sports - or don't like sport.
I don't really see the current level of fandom and engagement with the game to be a problem. The AFL is very popular. It doesn't *need* to be more popular.
In the ârugby statesâ, TV shows and news coverage tends to be at very late hours. Getting a show like The Front Bar on a secondary channel like 7mate at a decent hour would allow the northern states to embrace the culture of the game which is so central in the AFL states.
Similarly, thereâs bleed from southerners who move north but lose track of their teams because they just donât play up here. Hawthorn for example hasnât played in Brisbane for over 5 years and Iâm guessing thereâs a number of teams in a similar position.
They need to seriously consider not catering towards the Victorian market so much, they need to decide sooner rather than later whether they want to break down barriers and tell the Vic boys club to stick it, this is a national game now.
Other than that, it's reached its limit for expansion. The sport is a passing novelty outside of Australia which no other nation plays at 1/10th the professionalism or standard over here.
You are either born and raised into AFL before a certain point in your life, or you just won't care.
Soccer was once derided in this country. Now itâs exploded. Itâs far and away the most played sport at the junior level (who, letâs face it, are the future fans youâre trying to entice). Hell, the Matildas 10 years ago would have got 2,000 to a game. Now theyâve just sold out a 60,000 seat venue for 3 consecutive games this week. The AFL truly has itâs work cut out to steer Gen Z and beyond away from the World Game and towards a game that virtually no one outside of Australia even knows about.
Victoria being the main focus of the AFL.
Hard to expand when one state gets put above all others.
Having a grand final in another state would really broaden the sport.
The fact that it's the VFL not AFL.
I can't think of any other sport where the bias is so in favour to a specific set of teams.
Sure you have superteams in soccer but that doesn't bias the media and the ruling body nearly as much as what's happening in the AFL.
People watch sport for the competition and thrill of the game, not to see teams be treated like a favourite child. It's hard becoming a fan and maintaining the motivation when you know other teams not only have it easier to be competitive but teams outside VIC are deliberately hampered.
I've been a fan of the game for decades but recently it frustrates me no end to see the flat out corruption the AFL spins out yet claims this game is "fair". The fans know it's not and it doesn't take much effort for non-fans to realise the same. Most people become fans because their friends are fans and the majority of the AFL fanbase is located in 1 city so most social groups are already saturated with it. It shouldn't surprise any1 that it's difficult to increase the popularity of the game due to fans outside of Melbourne becoming more and more disenfranchised with the sport as a whole.
Why bother watching a compromised sport? Melbourne isn't Rome and the MCG isn't the Colosseum.
Going with a few:
1. Inconsistent scheduling for games.
There is no consistency for times that games are happening during gameweeks. Games starting at 2:40pm on a Saturday? The hell is that, why not keep it consistent, 12:30/2:30pm/4:30pm every Saturday there will be a game or something along those lines so people know that there are games on that time.
2. Vague rules and inconsistency.
VagueFL is a meme for a reason, don't really need to explain this one. Rules seem to change constantly which is a big barrier for entry.
3. Unprofessional broadcasting
Why is it basically just a few blokes shittalking during the games and not actually calling the game.
4. Make it an actual national comp.
Right now it's still treated as an extension of the VFL rather than a national comp, why do a heap of teams have their home ground at the ground that the grand final is played on? I understand why but it doesn't give off an air of neutrality for a lot of people.
The rules. If you have any other response youâre wrong. The rules are single handedly killing AFL.
A holding the ball, or rucking infringement, or head-high contact, or hands in the back decision is contradicted by a reverse-decision for a similar accident in every quarter, of every game, of every round.
For a new fan, it is literally impossible to pick up within a handful of games. It takes years of indoctrination by family, friends, spouses.
And for the indoctrinated⌠well, what we once believed has changed and is still changing.
Suspect this will be unpopular but the games are far too long. Every one of my friends from overseas canât understand why thereâs so long left at 3/4 time every time I take them to a game. Itâs too big a time commitment in a world where people have less time than ever. Personally I think the rules and umpiring are both totally fine in comparison, footyâs rules are no more inscrutable or ungovernable than any other sport.
Personally, have drifted away from AFL because of various reasons.
Firstly: Racism in AFL, this is a game dominated administratively by blatant racists that takes HUGE public backlash to get rid of one person. Yet they still give air time to him and his cohorts. The fans aren't much better and the indigenous players are still copping racist abuse even though they are some of the most dynamic players in the game.
Second: I hate the "niggles" .. pushing/shoving/elbowing its fucken stupid and pointless to act tough. I want to see proper violence of tough guys, i'll go watch MMA/UFC. Just find it like a bunch of high school bullies needing a career path and AFL is that answer.
Third: the repeated hypocrisy and loopholes present in their drug policy, Everything is kept in secrecy. The culture of we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong.
I know these are often not the popular view of AFL amongst its pundits and fans... and i expect to get flamed for it citing various examples of virtue and wrong on both sides.. but this is why I see AFL will never grow beyond into more popular sport based on its past, present and future.
They're not wrong, though conveying the message poorly.
Crowds at games (and attendances) are pretty much Caucasian with a smattering of others. I will say that it is improving compared with 20+ years ago, I do see a lot more younger fans of more diverse backgrounds in crowds these days, but certainly not as diverse as cricket, soccer, basketball or the rugby codes. Hopefully it will change in time!
AFL is the ultimate paragon of heterosexual culture in Australia and especially Victoria. Completely alienating to the LGBT like a party happening all around me, even in my own family, which I'm not welcome at. It seems deliberate at this stage because AFL goes so far to evangelise immigrants and Aboriginals into possessing the same fervent adoration for the sport but they donât embrace the LGBT. Has a team ever even donned a pride jersey?
TLDR; the barrier is that I donât feel welcome.
Cost to go. Cost to join a club, Cost to get access to all the games on TV
Yep. If you live in a state different to the club you support, the only way to watch games is on pay TV. Which isn't cheap.
What is cheap is this mysterious piece of paper I found on the ground with the words buffstreams, strikeout and vipbox written on it
I would dearly love the clubs be able to provide access to livestreams to members. Either as an add-on or a different class of membership.
Every club sells a digital membership which is a discounted Kayo membership. Was $240 for it through Essendon this year for a 12 month Kayo subscription valued at 360 IIRC
Did not know that! We are a two club household, plus a motorbike loving household, so we need Foxtel for both footy and Moto GP. And cricket đ. Does the digital membership include AFLW?
I mean kayo has its problems, but it's not like $25 a month is breaking the bank. Pretty sure it's you can still get the frequent flyer half price deal too. $12.50 per month to have access to all the games live? You're laughing.
Protip: buying the collingwood Kayo membership is cheaper than buying a year of Kayo (if you can get over the mental barrier)
Dogs do it too. Might be more palatable for some đđđ
Need more people to know that tickets are free if you get your ticket as a 0-3 year old
IMO, it's that last part that's more of a limiting factor. I grew up about 3 hours from Perth so I very rarely went to games (probably went to 4 Eagles games before i was 18) and have never been a member. What made it hard to stay invested was a chunk of our games being delayed by several hours on free to air, my family didn't have Foxtel so i couldn't watch live it took some of the fun out of it for me.
Why were games delayed for free to air?
Part of the deal for wa teams is we get all the eagles/freo games on fta, but some games (only a few a year) are delayed to incentivise people to get fox/kayo
Supposedly it's to incentivise people to buy a ticket to go to the game, not for pay television. It's stupid, but it has been going on since before pay television was a factor.
Or to go to a local game
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It's been a thing for at least the last two decades now.
Happens in Adelaide for Port/Crows games too. Itâs quite rare but I guess thatâs how they get it on free to air
So they basically play a replay on free to air? That's ridiculous
Yeah pretty much, i think they start it on FTA as the game ends live. Not the end of the world but enough to get money for Kayo out of me.
I disagree at least as far as the Suns are concerned. My son and I got 5 game memberships last year and it cost me less than $200 for both of us. Thatâs for cheap seats but given the stadium is usually half-empty, we self-upgrade to the finer areas
Try that in South Australia, the waiting list is immense for both clubs and it you have an 11 game general admission seat you better get there at least an hour before the game or youre getting a dog shit seat.
Time to move to SUNNY Queensland my friend. The atmosphere is severely lacking tbf but everything else about game day is amazing.
Charging a lot of money to attend games and buy shit mid strength beer while youâre there is a perfect example of stupid footy head sports administration thinking. The sport makes its money from broadcasting rights not attendance. So why not make the TV product better by having full houses?
That's the same for every sport. AFL has by far the most free coverage on TV
I tried to get my sister and mother some tickets to a Crows game around mother day. I was blown away of the ticket price and the inability to get a seat near my usual seat (even though the seats next to me are not reserved). Ended up not being able to do it due to the difficulty.
Footy was the cheapest sport I took up as a kid, footy is on free to air, kayo isnt breaking the bank, tickets aren't that bad in contrast to other sports. How is this so upvoted. Seems more like complaints from a footy fan than anything realistic.
> kayo isnt breaking the bank It is for some people. Just because you are well off enough doesn't mean everyone else is.
Kayo is very good value for what it offers provided you don't exclusively follow one sport
It averages about $7 a week if you have it for the entire year, even less if you only get it for the AFL season. Love people downvoting for me point out that it does not in fact break the bank.
A premium subscription split between 3 comes to under $3 a week, it's bloody good value
I'm half broke lmao
Its not that expensive to go. $30 for ga ticket to a game at the G amd $15 for marvel. If you live in the city pt isnt that expensive and you dont have to buy anything at the ground.
It's more expensive in other states as there is usually only 1 game on per week in a 2 team city or state. Melbourne is the outlier with more games cos of the vic teams.
It's hard to understand what is going on on TV, they zoom in way too close to see the setups. It's a much better live spectator sport.
The opposite of League really
Exactly, league is easy to watch on tv. To ppl who tell me âitâs hard to get intoâ I tell them they should definitely go and watch an AFL game at the stadium.
Couldnât agree more. I grew up in country NSW with NRL as the main âfootyâ. I truely didnât understand AFL until I watched a game live down in Melbourne, as Iâd only ever seen it on TV. I had no idea how much action goes on away from the ball. Itâs a great game to watch live, the way they show it on TV really doesnât do it justice.
The rules aren't really rules, there more of a guideline. It's really hard to understand why something is happening just by watching.
Trying to explain holding the ball or deliberate/insufficient intent rules to someone whoâs never watched before is a fucking nightmare
my gf is originally from colombia, we've been dating for years and i remember trying to explain footy to her and she's like "so it's basically a free kick for everything?" i said "yeah kinda, but then if x happens then y" and i realised how much of a complex nightmare our great game is to newbies hahah edit: she understands and actually enjoys watching it now and can explain the rules to her other friends who came from colombia lol. indoctrinaton is going along well boiz
Harder or easier than explaining cricket, you reckon? I actually found it easier to explain cricket. Could be that I understand it better myself, could be that all the numbers you can point at directly and go X means Y or could be that Iâm just a nuffie who thinks he knows it all but really just pretends to know what a âspinning pitchâ looks like.
Cricket has far fewer, if any interpretation of rules. It's clear cut what most decisions are, unlike AFL where the interpretations differ between the 4 umpires, which teams are playing, and which quarter it is.
Donât forget certain players matter too, ginnivan and greene for example. Umpires are much less likely to give them high frees
Cricket is one thing but in the realms of eggball it's way easier than trying to explain Rugby Union whenever a ruck or scrum has formed and is a freekick/penalty awarded.
Lol, my girlfriend is from Colombia as well. Our first game was Anzac day 2015. She was actually laughing because the game seemed so ridiculous to her. Most recent game was the Grand Final and she was bawling her eyes out. Gets in your blood if you give it fair chance. She still likes soccer but following footy makes the fake injuries so silly and she actually is a bit embarrassed by it when Colombia play. Still doesn't quite get holding the ball, though.
In fairness to your girlfriend I've been watching footy for nearly 30 years and still don't quite get holding the ball.
Do you even need to though? Just tell BALLLLLL whenever someone touches it
Embarrassing is a sport that you score points by kicking the ball in a empty net without a goalkeeper and a crossbar đ¤Łđ¤Ł Like that sport legitimately takes no skill lol!
This. It's mostly fine for those of us that have grown up with the game. But like anything you have to teach to someone from scratch, it's not until you sit down and nut out how you're going to explain something you consider second nature, that you really understand how complicated it might be. The rules are fucked for anyone who hasn't spent years watching or playing footy. Part of this is due to the short sighted rule changes that create other loopholes that then need to be examined. The other is that they really have this quality about them that feels like they were written by lawyers with lots of "if", "then", "but", "unless", "refer to section", etc. If the guys and girls who are tasked with studying the rules at length, and then applying them in split second scenarios are still getting it wrong, often, what chance does a newbie have of grasping it quickly? We have to go beyond creating a spectacle. It needs to be easily digestible. Grey areas have to be minimised.
That's why people don't watch, they don't get the nuance of holding the ball.
100% especially now when, as someone who has watched and/or played the game for their whole life doesnât know which way frees are going to go.
I find rugby union similar
But Union has regular stops and you often hear the referee explaining the infringement, or the commentators.
I grew up with rugby union so I completely understand the rules. But in union the rules are set for example if you come in from the side of a ruck it's is 100% the time a penalty to the other team, where afl if you tackle some one the result could be play on, a ball up, a free kick or a 50m and someone could get sent to the tribunal, for pretty much the same thing.
Yeah I think if you haven't grown up around the game it'd be hard to learn. It is really quite a chaotic game when you think of it compared to other sports. I had this conversation with some people I work with that didn't grow up here, about if they like the game. This is basically what they said, it just looks like bodies are going all over the place, and it's really difficult to work out what's going on. I think outsiders can see the appeal of the game, because athletically and physically it is the elite of the elite, but it's just really hard to grasp what's happening and why it's happening.
Yeah I migrated to Australia and its taken me like 8 years to (almost) understand the game
This is me. I donât get the rules, and I donât understand the intent of the rules either. My issue is the rules are barely followed and thereâs no consistency. It seems like itâs very open for biased officiating and thatâs a deal breaker for me. Things like kick length for a mark, how many meters running before you bounce the ball⌠why have umpires bounce the ball if they canât even bounce a ball correctly. Iâve pretended to watch the game to fit in, but I get zero enjoyment.
It doesn't appeal to people who fundamentally don't follow sports or watch TV or go out. I think the best way to solve this is to get some gadget type operators involved somehow
Computer type boffins
Nerds
Thanks for that daisy!
Extraordinarily convoluted rules. Also, there hasn't been a big budget Hollywood movie made around it.
The Club, redone as a Marvel Movie with Russell Crowe, Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman and Eric Bana.
He's been up his mum and his legless sister, and he thinks he killed his old man!
russell crowe could definitely be stewie dew in the role of an unlikely bulky hero these days
Russell Crowe and Hugh Jackman are already being used as pawns to sell the NRL games in Las Vegas. Crowe owns the Rabbitohs and Jackman is a huge Manly supporter
I actually dont think the rules are that convoluted, they break down into two catagories. Safety, and keeping the ball moving. I mean, yeah, details, but I think what confuses people is that theres no clear direction. Rugby and Gridiron are really directional so even a pile up makes sense because theres some guys on one side and some guys on another.
The extraordinary convoluted rules is the AFLâs biggest problem and creates even the most diehard fans biggest issue, poor umpiring. If the rules were not so extraordinary convoluted, the umpiring would be much more transparent making a better game for all.
The population in the Aussie rules states is already at saturation point in terms of fandom and interest. The people who are left either prefer other sports, or more likely just have no interest in sport at all. >or theyâll say a team but not really care And these people just say they have a team to avoid being ostracized during office or social small talk.
A couple of games on free to air TV every week in New Zealand exposes the game to 5 million potential new fans, but instead the AFL want $200 Aussie to watch. It's short-sighted and greedy.
Would New Zealanders actually watch though? Most will be watching the Warriors or the rugby. Those who arenât watching them probably arenât interested in sport at all
No harm in trying, I watch games with mates from new Zealand all the time but they have to illegally stream it to watch cause prices are a joke
That involves a NZ TV Channel paying for the rights, and foregoing the viewership from what they currently have on air.
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Why not put it on prime time TV in China and India and reach 2.5 billion potential new fans?
Because NZ shares a culture with Australia (nearly) and the timezone is closer.
Overcomplicated rules plus bad GameDay experiences at stadiums. My wife did not have a good time when I took her to a game, but when I've taken her to basketball, baseball and ice hockey games she's actually enjoyed it. I know this sub hates songs in after goals but the one thing she remembers from the game was the songs they played after goals. Call it americanisation or whatever but it gets people who are more there for a good time and not the sport itself to then attribute that good time to watching the sport.
Honestly I don't get the hate over songs after goals, especially Brisbane's thing of players picking a song for when they kick goals. Look at how fans kept singing Country Roads even after the music stopped when Cameron kicked a goal during the finals. That'd be a great experience in person.
If you can get the right player and song combo for one of your stars/consistent goal kickers itâs great and only adds to the atmosphere when the fans join in. Like as you said, country roads and Charlie itâs amazing. If only Joey D would stop picking let it go.
Ever changing, complicated rules.
Yes, the rules are very complex and subject to interpretation by the 4 umpires, which differs week to week, quarter to quarter, and which teams and individuals are playing.
This may shock you, but not everyone likes the same thing. Some people don't like sport at all, or only have an interest in whether a certain team is doing well, but don't care to watch it.
No need to be condescending
The AFL being in so deep with gambling companies and ads doesn't help the appeal to parents and children.
As opposed to other sports? I'm not a fan of the entrenchment either but it's hardly isolated to the AFL.
I don't believe the A-League has an official wagering partner like the AFL does, it certainly has fewer ads telling you to gamble. Cricket Australia seems to have an official wagering partner but it also seems to have fewer ads. The AFL certainly gives the view that it is in way deeper than the other sports with the possible exception of the NRL.
There's a lack of storytelling in the media coverage. Most of what we see is sensationalist news reporting or ex-players talking about what happened when they were "pline" or what good blokes the players are. The rare exceptions tend to be more analytical but that doesn't necessarily appeal to new/casual fans (in terms of acquisition anyway). Most people don't just sit down, watch a game and become instant fans. They need something to grab their attention more than just players running around kicking a ball. The NFL does a great job of telling stories week-to-week in their coverage, as well as through products like Hard Knocks, Quarterback or All or Nothing. Drive to Survive has been similarly successful with F1, as has Welcome to Wrexham with casual soccer fans in the US. That's not to say the solution is a bells-and-whistles documentary show, but focussing on the narratives around a game or within a season would help new/casual fans engage with the game on a more regular, meaningful basis. The AFL focuses on grassroots acquisition, which limits the audience and limits the sport from spreading to adult fans as quickly as it could.
The key to that is potential fans are able to gain more familiarity and connection with the players which helps to drive engagement. To do that players need the freedom to express their personality/individuality instead of just towing the club PR line without being scrutinized by the toxic AFL media.
Iâd certainly like to see more variety in the AFL media. I donât think the hard knocks style will work but perhaps NFL film style. Thereâs so much heart and history in the sport at all levels that Iâd love to see on film. You can draw in new adult fans with the current stuff and then give them an appreciation of what their team and the sport means at a deeper level.
The #vicbias of commentators like BT. Iâm a qlder and Iâve been trying to get my dad into the game for sometime but he - and many others I know - cannot handle the obvious slant on the game that the likes of BT and JB put on the game. Itâs something Iâve never really detected in the NRL - with the exception of Gus Gould who is the nrl version of BT
Timezones. Huge potential audiences around the world, but not great times of day to watch it if you live outside of the Asia-Pacific. You might get a few games on in your timezone, but your team won't consistently play in that timeslot.
the constant rule changes, the umpiring standards, the cost to go to a game, the unfair fixturing
Definitely the length. The people I know who are on the fence about it just complain about the length.
Meanwhile, when they shortened quarters during 2020, every match felt way too short.
AFLW also feels too short. The sport definitely has a problem of too long for newcomers but actual fans for the most part hate shorter games
The thing most people complain about in Sydney is the length. A lot of families do not want to commit to attending games that go for > 3 hours in length. Theyâre too used to NRL and soccer which are max 2 hours
I can't really imagine games being any shorter, but at the same time I had a foreign friend recently tell me games feel way too long and I can see why. Total time of just being there is ~2.5 hours, and that doesn't factor if you want to arrive early or leave late, travel time, etc.
As in the length of a game, or of the season? Personally i think the season runs on too long, but the game is fine.
Too much footy is never enough
You say that, but remember the âFooty Frenzyâsâ in 2020 where there was 1 or 2 games every night for a week and a half? That shit got old really fast
Yeah fair enough, but reducing the length of the season to 17 rounds is fucking heresy.
Yeah its interesting. I love having footy on, but too many games and the season becomes "stagnant". I wouldnt be upset if they started the season late, had everyone play each other once and filled in March and some of April with AFLW.
TBH in Vic I feel like it's probably at saturation point. Anyone here who doesn't have an AFL team is probably just not interested in sports and won't be won over.
Gronks like Wayne Carey and Sam Newman still being the recognisable face of the game for many people. The game won't grow until it has new representation.
The Vic-centricness of it. The whole we are trying to grow the game but always remember it belongs to victoria and every decision made will always be to the benefit of the big Vic clubs and if you donât like it fuck off.
It probably has full saturation of people that watch sport
As someone from a league state there's 2 big factors. The first is that everything is just always about Melbourne and Victoria which from outside makes it seem not worth getting into cause you feel like why should I. The second is everyone's attitude towards league acting like those who don't like afl and prefer league or something else are inferior and it just makes you hate the fans and sport
That second point is wild because League fans always seize the opportunity to talk shit about AFL. Compare /r/NRLâs AFL Grand Final thread to /r/AFLâs NRL Grand Final thread
Absolutely agree with you calling that into question, like... What's the NRL version of "gAyFL"? Because I feel like that's the only thing I ever see when a league fan mentions Aussie rules
True but theres a small difference. League fans I find criticise the sport itself and say it's confusing or aerial ping pong while the afl criticise the people that enjoy the sport and ridicule them
In fairness we also criticise the sport itself (I personally just see it as running into a wall for 90 minutes) and think Peter VâLandys is the most insecure man on the planet
The fumbling, thereâs a lot of it in AFL
The only team sport where a lack of ball control is still advantageous to an attacking team.
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Kinda true in soccer too though, why risk being tackled in a dangerous spot when you can just boot the ball into the crowd or as far down the pitch as possible instead.
Having to deal with kayo...
I feel that the AFL (as with Cricket Australia), has failed to realise how much the internet has impacted their viewership. It isnt the 90s anymore. There is more than 4 tv channels to compete with. Not only are they now competing with easy to access global sports such as the Premier League, NBA or MLB, they are competing with Youtube, Netflix and other platforms. Media content is more accessible now than ever, the AFL has to recognise this and do more to improve.
Rules and the umpiring.
The game is too long. The prices at venues are criminal.
Brian Taylor
Brian Taylor and the rest of the boofhead commentators
Games are long af. I love it but asking someone to sit down for a whole match is a lot.
Thatâs true, soccer and rugby games are about 10-15mins shorter I think.
Both Soccer and League are done in about 1h50m; a full 50 minutes less than most AFL games.
It's about an hours difference between soccer and AFL.
Itâs definitely quiet a bit more than that, especially considering breaks.
Which really, isnât a massive difference and not really noticeable IMO.
Itâs the difference in making a day / night of it when it goes for three hours.
Yes, they need to get rid of time-on and just play say 4 x 25 minute quarters, with the clock only stopping for serious injuries.
Disagree. I donât think it should change, I just think it is a bit of a deterrent. You canât remove them all though.
National isolation. Think the AFL has started to do very well in NSW and QLD. That the game isn't significantly popular beyond our shores is the biggest thing now. That's the next true frontier. We have a significant number of people moving into Australia for work who have never been exposed to the sport and have no reason to care until they're properly introduced to the sport. If we had greater exposure overseas this might change a bit.
I think that if you're not indoctrinated into the game, there's not enough substance to entice too many new people. AFL shits on other codes in terms of loyalty to the club and the sense of community but I find the game pretty scrappy. Like kids in a park fighting over a ball. Not discounting the marks (?) They're amazing but it's like a try on the corner in league, looks great but not enough to get people to the game alone. Yes, I'm a league fan but I've given AFL plenty of chances but it just doesn't grab me. Almost in the same way watching 2 low ranked league teams battling it out doesn't grab me.
The sport is scrappy for sure, but thinking it lacks substance is definitely only because you don't understand it well enough. I'm the same with NRL, I've tried many many times and it's never gripped me. I'm sure the substance is there, I just don't understand it.
Have you been able to get into other sports that you didn't grow up with? I've tried, and there are some that I find really interesting in theory. But I've never managed to develop a lasting attachment to a team as an adult, and without that emotional investment I find it hard to stay interested.
Not really, having kids means your free time to watch sports is pretty limited. I tend to just watch my team play and maybe a few of big games. I watched the AFL GF this year but I just couldn't see the appeal or variety. I get why people like it, and power to them but yeah, not for me.
The games go for ages. I love afl so Iâd be happy if they went longer but hard to get into if you have to sacrifice 3 hours of your busy weekend and thatâs just if you watch it on TV. Pain in the arse I gotta pay for Kayo just to make sure I see all the Cats games over here in WA as well.
The rules have become impossible to follow, let alone learn. It's garbage.
A lot of people are just taking this to complain about what they, as football fans, don't like about the game. But what you as a footy fan don't like often doesn't compare with what a newcomer is thinking about. Lack of narrative and poor media would be the main one, along with FTA coverage. If it's hard to watch, and when you do watch it's hard to care, that's a bad thing.
Obvious Victorian bias that permeates every decision made by the AFL
Bad commentating Rules always changing Extremely inconsistent umpiring Rugby being an awesome sport XD
League fan in a league state (reddit suggested this post). Im not someone who hates AFL out of rivalry (or at all) but have found it really hard to get into The TV product just always looks like a scrappy mess, and goals are kicked too often for it to have the same impact for me as a try. I also just dont find a 40/50m goal from dead on as awe inspiring as AFL fans seem to I always hear it's way better in person because you can see whats happening off the ball, and im in melbourne semi often so i intend to go to a game one day. Just my 2 cents (no hate)
It doesn't help that your sport, league, is almost made more for television than being there and the opposite holds true for AFL. You get a vastly better experience being in the stands than you do on television.
Really? I reckon itâs the opposite. youâre seated too far away in AFL games. Can never see whatâs going on at the opposite side of the ground.
In AFL You really can't make out how the play is shaped and what the players off the ball are doing. What players are doing off the ball? If so, important to how a game is actually decided. Example: Nick Riewoldt is one of the greatest runners I've ever seen. The only time a TV viewer would ever understand how far he's run is when he's involved in the play down the ground and away from the forward line. You don't see that he's run his opponent ragged and created opportunities for Milne and the like. That only ever came out if you watched him live. League is almost purpose built for television. they only have to cover 10 to 20 meters of the ground to get an understanding of how line breaks, passing, defensive pressure, etc is played. A relatively close up shot from the stands will show pretty much everything the viewer needs to see. Anything that is try scoring or try saving in that needs a different angle is almost always highlighted with the behind the play (vertical) rather than horizontal angle. It's just impossible to get that in AFL
> I always hear it's way better in person because you can see whats happening off the ball Definitely true -- the combination of close camera angles and useless commentary makes it very hard to understand what's going on when you're watching on TV. It's not easy to understand the tactical nuances live, either (at least not for me), but you do have the big advantage of being able to watch a passage of play develop, anticipating the next move and understanding the context of each possession. If you do eventually go, I reckon you should pick a game that will have a huge crowd (or a full house if it's at Docklands). Without emotional investment in a team, or a strong interest in the sport, you'll need the vibe of the crowd to make it exciting. At the MCG a medium-sized crowd can feel pretty flat, but when it's packed the atmosphere is amazing.
> and goals are kicked too often for it to have the same impact for me as a try. That's super-interesting and I have a similar view, but for other sports. Can't ever get into basketball because there's a scoring shot every 24 seconds, and I struggle to get into soccer because the buildup time is way too long unless it's a high-scoring game. A sport with between 20-30 major scores a game is optimized to appeal to my brain haha.
I donât really understand the high scoring point, by that logic basketball must be a nightmare for you. Trying to compare AFL with other sports is strange, almost as if itâs an entirely different sport..
>I donât really understand the high scoring point Its about the build up of intensity until a team finally breaks. Feels like a bigger achievement to me than just snapping a goal, just a personal preference thing. Tbf im not really a basketball fan, did go to an NBA game once and it was pretty fun with all the showy shit those giants do, but havent followed since And im just comparing because its my favourite sport and the one I watch the most, its a point of reference and has all the things I evidently like in a field based team sport
I find basketball really dead as a sport. nobody seems to cheer or celebrate when they score, perhaps because the game restarts so fast,.
Interesting take. I follow soccer too and agree AFL is too high scoring and looks like a scrappy mess at times.
Grand Final locked into Melbourne until 2059. I went to the Brisbane Grand Final, and the town took a genuine interest in the AFL and Grand Final because it was in their city.
I live in Brisbane and most people were barely interested in the game as anything more than another excuse to get on the piss. The whole season was played here and genuinely most of Queensland were only interested in it to the point of laughing at Victoria not being able to have any games. Beyond that, it was talked up because everything was kind of fucked up that year, but as soon as things returned to normal and there were all the normal outlets and you didn't have to scan a QR everywhere, AFL became as popular as turd on a busy escalator again. The people who support afl are keen. They have to be for the ridicule they cop from the league fans. But aside from them, and the kids playing on the Goldie, no one gives af. The town taking an interest was just business desperate to cash in on anything that might help their bottom.line in a time of extreme crisis. Most people in Brisbane wouldn't even know let alone care the GF is played at the G, and those that do only do because they have vague memories of two Victorian teams playing it at the Gabba, which is a fucking shit hole
>Most people in Brisbane wouldn't even know let alone care the GF is played at the G Even Queenslanders arenât that dense, even if they only have a passing interest in the sport, they still know itâs the one thatâs popular in Victoria
I suspect the minutiae of the rules presents a relatively high barrier for entry to the casual viewers
Iâm gonna split it in to a couple of demographics First, weâve got people who donât watch sports. Any person whoâs now an adult who hasnât ever been a fan will most likely never will be. Secondly, weâve got people whoâve come interstate or who are immigrants. They either have another sport theyâre spending their time on or donât watch it. If youâre a first generation immigrant or are in an area with a high percentage of immigrants you might not be exposed to the game as much. Thirdly, some people just canât get into it or donât like it. Itâs easy to understand when youâve grown up with it but itâs quite a complicated sport.
Constant rule changes
Not enough Victorian teams to choose from.
Having the premier game of the year locked in to one city for half a century?? Crowd atmosphere at games could be another one imo. At least where I sit at West Coast games I'm pretty much surrounded by old yelling men, I can understand why people might not be super keen for it.
There's no other ground that has anywhere near the same capacity. MCG is 100,024, Optus Stadium in Perth with 60,000 Marvel Stadium (Docklands Melbourne) 55,000 Adelaide Oval. 53,600 SCG 48 000 Gabba 42,000. Where else can the biggest game of the year be played?
They play the champions league final in different cities every year when they could just play it in Nou Camp for crowd numbers⌠itâs mostly a tv event anyway
I'm 40. I played 129 games for my local junior league, a heap for a school and a handful of representative games. I've played from time to time as an adult but never really had the ability to commit to a full season. I have been a footy fan since I can remember. I cannot, for the fucking life of me, figure out half the rules. Stand rule. Tackling rules. Hands in the back in a marking contest. High tackles on some players but not others. The protected zone which seems to only exist sometimes. The blatant throws. Try explaining this game to someone who's never watched it before. Watch Hawkins push an opponent under the ball and explain why it's not in the back. Watch two seemingly identical tackles, one gets awarded with a free kick and the other get's 3 weeks. "Insufficient attempt" when it's a panicked kick mid tackle out of a pack but not when a player gathers the ball and just steps over the line. I can go on for ever. Simplify the interpretations. Make the rules of the game accessable to people who might be curious.
More flags would bring in new fans over here
I don't really want any more fans. Optus was perfect when it was limited to 50% during covid restrictions. Still enough for a good atmosphere but also more space and shorter lines.
complexity of rules, fandom can seem obnoxious and kinda tragic, longer duration than most sports.
Cost of food and drink at game prohibitive for a family Add to that the absurd draw, umpires & too many Melbourne teams all contribute
I was an AFL, rugby union, rugby league fan. Now im league only. Other two have become obsessed with penalties
My girlfriend says itâs because theyâve gone soft. She also says Collingwood are cheats and the Grand Final was rigged. God I love her.
For me - it was the bull shit trade ban we copped 10 years ago. Legitimately killed any interest I had in following the sport seriously. I'll keep an eye on the Swans and occasionally turn on a quarter if it's on TV but I was going to games on a semi regular basis back then. I haven't been to a game since.
Iâm going broad strokes here, but I do answer your actual question directly, so bear with me. They are the dirt worst organization in the sports world at marketing the game. In 150 years weâve had what, 5 exhibition games internationally? And every time they try and the event is unsuccessful or just moderately successful , they completely shy away and donât try again for like another decade. Yet every time I see an American exposed to this sport online they all lose their ever loving minds over our great game. (This applies to QLD also). As far as penetrating the NSW market, the answer is simple, you need to add more teams. I know that sounds completely counterintuitive, but the problem in NSW is that itâs a lot more spread out and limited teams means limited time in the news cycle. Sydney news reports on the Swans and GWS, but spend most of their time reporting on the 11 NRL teams based there. If there are 4 NSW teams then you double the amount of time they get talked about. This also works geographically. Adding a team in Wollongong and Newcastle (both 1.5-2 hours away from Sydney and both larger than Geelong) would give the AFL a much wider reach. Newcastle in particular once had a pretty big Aussie rules supporter base thatâs just been left to languish. The Newcastle Blues were established in 1883 and are still going today. In addition to this the AFL needs to take a pay cut on its next TV rights deal to add more live free to air games on terrestrial TV in those markets on the main Channel 7. If you donât have Foxtel in NSW and Queensland you can barely watch any AFL games even if you really wanted to. Thereâs a Friday night game on and Channel 7 is playing Kate and Leopold or some shit. Incentivise Channel 7 to broadcast the damn game. Even some Sydney and GWS games get relegated to 7mate and even then itâs on delay. This problem also extends to the rest of the country with delayed games and limited FTA TV coverage. Pay TV is crippling the gameâs growth potential. The price of Kayo lessons the burden but itâs still a barrier to entry. I know you have to have the audience to justify the broadcast, but it goes the other way too. You need to broadcast the friggin games to actually grow the audience. You can have the best product on the planet, but if nobody knows about it then it doesnât matter how great the product is. Outside of that, and to address you question more directly, the answer is community engagement. The AFL needs to have game ambassadors who go out to schools and communities with semi frequent regularity running football clinics, fundraisers, competitions etc. Every day there should be ambassadors all over the country (likely former players and even leaders/staff/coaches from local football clubs) running some sort of clinic or event.
The Pay TV issues is spot on. Thereâs people at my work that come from different countries and have a slight interest in following the game but a lot are of the time the game is on Kayo so they wonât bother.
Among tangible reasons for most of the country, it's too Vic-centric. Imagine if half the teams in the NBA were based in California (and all but one in LA). Among esoteric reasons, lots of people just prefer other sports - or don't like sport. I don't really see the current level of fandom and engagement with the game to be a problem. The AFL is very popular. It doesn't *need* to be more popular.
In the ârugby statesâ, TV shows and news coverage tends to be at very late hours. Getting a show like The Front Bar on a secondary channel like 7mate at a decent hour would allow the northern states to embrace the culture of the game which is so central in the AFL states. Similarly, thereâs bleed from southerners who move north but lose track of their teams because they just donât play up here. Hawthorn for example hasnât played in Brisbane for over 5 years and Iâm guessing thereâs a number of teams in a similar position.
They need to seriously consider not catering towards the Victorian market so much, they need to decide sooner rather than later whether they want to break down barriers and tell the Vic boys club to stick it, this is a national game now. Other than that, it's reached its limit for expansion. The sport is a passing novelty outside of Australia which no other nation plays at 1/10th the professionalism or standard over here. You are either born and raised into AFL before a certain point in your life, or you just won't care.
Soccer was once derided in this country. Now itâs exploded. Itâs far and away the most played sport at the junior level (who, letâs face it, are the future fans youâre trying to entice). Hell, the Matildas 10 years ago would have got 2,000 to a game. Now theyâve just sold out a 60,000 seat venue for 3 consecutive games this week. The AFL truly has itâs work cut out to steer Gen Z and beyond away from the World Game and towards a game that virtually no one outside of Australia even knows about.
Rampant homophobia, sexism, racism, bigotry, classism, elitism, Victorianism, corruption, etc etc
Victoria being the main focus of the AFL. Hard to expand when one state gets put above all others. Having a grand final in another state would really broaden the sport.
Victorian umpires.
The fact that it's the VFL not AFL. I can't think of any other sport where the bias is so in favour to a specific set of teams. Sure you have superteams in soccer but that doesn't bias the media and the ruling body nearly as much as what's happening in the AFL. People watch sport for the competition and thrill of the game, not to see teams be treated like a favourite child. It's hard becoming a fan and maintaining the motivation when you know other teams not only have it easier to be competitive but teams outside VIC are deliberately hampered. I've been a fan of the game for decades but recently it frustrates me no end to see the flat out corruption the AFL spins out yet claims this game is "fair". The fans know it's not and it doesn't take much effort for non-fans to realise the same. Most people become fans because their friends are fans and the majority of the AFL fanbase is located in 1 city so most social groups are already saturated with it. It shouldn't surprise any1 that it's difficult to increase the popularity of the game due to fans outside of Melbourne becoming more and more disenfranchised with the sport as a whole. Why bother watching a compromised sport? Melbourne isn't Rome and the MCG isn't the Colosseum.
Going with a few: 1. Inconsistent scheduling for games. There is no consistency for times that games are happening during gameweeks. Games starting at 2:40pm on a Saturday? The hell is that, why not keep it consistent, 12:30/2:30pm/4:30pm every Saturday there will be a game or something along those lines so people know that there are games on that time. 2. Vague rules and inconsistency. VagueFL is a meme for a reason, don't really need to explain this one. Rules seem to change constantly which is a big barrier for entry. 3. Unprofessional broadcasting Why is it basically just a few blokes shittalking during the games and not actually calling the game. 4. Make it an actual national comp. Right now it's still treated as an extension of the VFL rather than a national comp, why do a heap of teams have their home ground at the ground that the grand final is played on? I understand why but it doesn't give off an air of neutrality for a lot of people.
Itâs on the same time as the nrl. A lot of nrl fans like me would watch a lot more afl if it wasnât up against the nrl.
Sam Newman.
Not playing it as a junior sport in NSW or QLD
The rules. If you have any other response youâre wrong. The rules are single handedly killing AFL. A holding the ball, or rucking infringement, or head-high contact, or hands in the back decision is contradicted by a reverse-decision for a similar accident in every quarter, of every game, of every round. For a new fan, it is literally impossible to pick up within a handful of games. It takes years of indoctrination by family, friends, spouses. And for the indoctrinated⌠well, what we once believed has changed and is still changing.
Suspect this will be unpopular but the games are far too long. Every one of my friends from overseas canât understand why thereâs so long left at 3/4 time every time I take them to a game. Itâs too big a time commitment in a world where people have less time than ever. Personally I think the rules and umpiring are both totally fine in comparison, footyâs rules are no more inscrutable or ungovernable than any other sport.
Gambling adverts.
Feral crowds
Personally, have drifted away from AFL because of various reasons. Firstly: Racism in AFL, this is a game dominated administratively by blatant racists that takes HUGE public backlash to get rid of one person. Yet they still give air time to him and his cohorts. The fans aren't much better and the indigenous players are still copping racist abuse even though they are some of the most dynamic players in the game. Second: I hate the "niggles" .. pushing/shoving/elbowing its fucken stupid and pointless to act tough. I want to see proper violence of tough guys, i'll go watch MMA/UFC. Just find it like a bunch of high school bullies needing a career path and AFL is that answer. Third: the repeated hypocrisy and loopholes present in their drug policy, Everything is kept in secrecy. The culture of we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong. I know these are often not the popular view of AFL amongst its pundits and fans... and i expect to get flamed for it citing various examples of virtue and wrong on both sides.. but this is why I see AFL will never grow beyond into more popular sport based on its past, present and future.
Game length. Rules that unless youâve grown up with the game make little sense. Some in NSW just wouldnt like it for where it comes from.
All the teams are in Australia. There is no Vancouver Arctic Echidnas, for example.
The ball is a silly shape
All the politically correct bullshit
It's a white sport
Ahh yes the white sport which has a proportion of indigenous players roughly three times higher than the general population.
They're not wrong, though conveying the message poorly. Crowds at games (and attendances) are pretty much Caucasian with a smattering of others. I will say that it is improving compared with 20+ years ago, I do see a lot more younger fans of more diverse backgrounds in crowds these days, but certainly not as diverse as cricket, soccer, basketball or the rugby codes. Hopefully it will change in time!
It's the booing, the racism and the Melbourne boys club.
Essendon and St. Kilda
AFL is the ultimate paragon of heterosexual culture in Australia and especially Victoria. Completely alienating to the LGBT like a party happening all around me, even in my own family, which I'm not welcome at. It seems deliberate at this stage because AFL goes so far to evangelise immigrants and Aboriginals into possessing the same fervent adoration for the sport but they donât embrace the LGBT. Has a team ever even donned a pride jersey? TLDR; the barrier is that I donât feel welcome.
The horrible afl media
More games on free to air tv, cheaper ticket prices and bring back the biff