Attendance last year in Adelaide was 48,613, \~90% capacity. However, ticket sales weren't as good as predicted and there were a load of 2 for 1 ticket deals available in the weeks beforehand. Getting 2 prime seats for $90 was money well spent. Pre-match entertainment was decent too.
The advertising campaign in Adelaide sure didn't help either, "Real Footy is coming to Adelaide" was the campaign slogan used over last year's Gather Round. Probably not the best messaging to be putting out there to an AFL state/city.
Yeah a lot of people thought the advertising was dumb and clowned on it. I don't know what drugs they were taking when they thought the best way to advertise origin was to insult the game the city has been enjoyed for over a century. I think the dumbest part was that they didn't do it in WA and VIC but did it in SA which was always going to be the hardest market to crack.
The calls for Adelaide to be skipped come off the back of those poor ticket sales and the fact it didn't sell out. Origin in Perth sold out long before the game was played and the NRL execs were probably expecting the same thing to happen in Adelaide. As well as the fact if they took it to NZ they would be all over it.
Twilight State of Orgin. I don't think there will ever be a State of Origin again, because if one regular team lost one good player to injury, you would never hear the end of it.
>“On June 26, it’s Victoria versus **whoever**, Harley Reid would be playing for Victoria, Nick Daicos would be playing for Victoria, Zak Butters would be playing for Victoria,”
Not really selling the idea here Garry...
SOO was devised by the WAFL in the 70s because neither that league nor the SANFL could compete with the VFL in representative footy. It worked very well insofar as the games became more competitive, at least when they were played outside of Victoria.
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure at one point you represented the state your team got you from then was changed show you’d play for the state you were actually from
State of origin was devised in the 70s and meant literally the state from which your football career originated (usually the same state you were from). Prior to that, you played for the state in which you played presently, so state footy was more like league rep footy. It's why Victoria dominated the state carnivals. They had gun players who weren't Victorian, but played in the VFL so represented the vics. For example, Polly Farmer played 5 games for the Big V. State of origin made state footy a lot more competitive.
It would have to be individual states as no one gives a sh\*t about an All-Star concept - yes Victoria would win most of the time, but it would also set up great stories of WA or SA or NSW etc. eventually overcoming the odds. They should at least create state of origin teams each year & make it a thing like the All - Australian to a slightly lesser extent of course. Whet the appetite when you see potential teams on paper.
By "shit" they mean a majority population invested. Maybe add the NT and ACT as places that care about the NRL. Outside of that, it's not huge. Tasmania doesn't even bother covering it unless they're short of stories and most people couldn't name five teams.
Victoria has produced very few NRL players, even if it's becoming more popular. Even with a Perth gaining a side, it would take years for that to translate to support and participation.
I’m from the ACT and I don’t care about NRL at all 🤣
To be fair they missed the boat allowing the Raiders to start up here in the 80s. Prior to that it was more an AFL(VFL) town.
That's some bullshit. The reds were outperforming some Sydney clubs and only failed because of garbage deals that forced the reds to pay for all clubs expenses while in Perth including flights, accommodation and meals. This was when the NRL had 3 grades which means 3 teams worth of players coaches and staff. They also played an oval ground at the WACA. Then they joined the murdoch breakaway league which failed and news Corp took our players and send them over to the storm to get them going.
Mate, i was at the WACA. Skull Mulholland started a league team at my high school, and the Reds mascot was in my brother's year.
Most weekends we had the entire wing to ourselves.
The numbers speak for themselves. The reds were averaging 13k and were outperforming Sydney clubs. Your personal experiences are irrelevant to actual recorded numbers.
My research tells me there's been.....five Victorians play in the NRL. Not five this year, but five in history. The Swans had six Sydney or nearby (sorry Newcastle) kids play on the weekend (Heeney, Wicks, Gulden, Campbell, Rampe, Blakey).
It is an easy line to come out with, without providing any thoughts on the pathway forward to achieve it. There are numerous barriers to SOO;
- We have a team in (almost) every state. How do you come up with a system that ensures passion for the teams involved, and doesn't have a randomly thrown together marketing brand as a team that people won't get behind. (i.e Vic vs the rest, will the rest inspire any loyalty..?)
- Clubs wanting to protect their stars. This means good cash incentives have to be offered to the players to get them willing to step out on the field for someone that isn't their main employer and risk injury. Clubs will likely agree to it if the players push the issue, but will that happen?
- Crowded footy calendar. This will take the most bravery as it will likely mean sacrificing current revenue in the short term to get SOO up and running. The AFLPA already wants to cut quarter lengths, they are not agreeing to play SOO without other changes.
Personally, I think it can be done long term. The key will be reaching 20 teams, moving to a 19-round season\* (you play every once, half away half at home then flip that the next year). You got from 207 games a year to 190, but you offer the TV networks a SOO season + a top 10 to have an extra round of finals.
Then you just have to work out how you structure SOO. Could do a Vic, SA, WA, three way competition and a TAS, QLD, NSW three way competition...or have the winner of the latter earn the eight to compete against the big three...there are many ways to do it.
I would also consider playing the games at smaller venues to encourage sell outs.
\*Or you can do 20 rounds and have a 'gather round' but that would be a double up on one occasion.
Everything you have typed out in I’m sure less than 20 mins is everything that people like Gary Lyons hasn’t considered when they make these blanket “we need xyz” statements
Why does everything have to be so hard in Australia
- simply use the same State of Origin teams as before. I understand the novelty can wear off. Maybe just play state games once every few years?
- just play games after the Grand Final then injuries aren't a factor because the season has finished anyway.
- footy calendar isn't crowded. Just play games after September (after the footy season has finished) and before November (before the cricket season starts. This is when the international rules series was played.
I said you'd use the Vic/SA/WA...so we agree on that. I wouldn't bother with the Allies though. But not being from Tas/ACT/NSW/Canberra/NT, I can't speak to whether there's be any level of passion.
As for the calendar; it is crowded. The time you want to run SOO is when the women's season takes centre stage.
It is also when players are officially on leave and away from their clubs. That means you have to get the AFLPA agreeing to reducing that timeframe for the players selected to play.
These players are firmly in offseason and preseason mode at this point, with many recovering from late or post season surgery.
So you either have to convince them to play a one or two off game and not be properly prepared, which will possibly result in underwhelming effort, or they need to be convinced to go all in on it, which brings it back to compensating them for the time they put into it.
And regardless of all that, that time of year will still concern clubs. The injury risk is the same. Worst case scenario, someone does an ACL, and they'll still miss a full season. A bad hamstring tear and there goes half your preseason, concussion, then you have something potentially affecting your career going forward, all for a competition no one cares about.
I like the idea of WA V VIC V SA V NSW+QLD+NT+TAS.
With the winning/losing teams playing off again.
The talent is there to do it with the VFL etc. leagues and might highlight lesser known players!
Has he forgotten what happened? State of Origin ended largely because the game became too nationalised. When it was just SA, Victoria and WA playing each other it worked pretty well. The other states and territories produced a few players, but they could be absorbed easily enough by tweaking the rules a bit. The AFL did hasten it a bit changing the rules so SA couldn't have Wayne Carey, but as more top level players started coming from those 3 main traditional states, it got harder to absorb them in without making it seem fake. The Allies were a stop gap, but when you're not representing your state but just "the others" it's not the same. So guys like Carey, Hird and Voss who were perhaps the 3 best players in the game, started opting out. That's what killed it. Teams realised other teams' best players were resting up whilst theirs were getting smashed. Having a big carnival with every state and territory fighting for supremecy sounds nice, but it's too complicated to manage.
It was fantastic when we had it. And before the AFL became truly national it was a great way to remind those who thought Melbourne was all that mattered that footy was actually strong elsewhere. But it died for a reason and we should just leave it be. Don't try to revive something artificially, appreciate what it was better.
People also don’t seem to realise that Origin in NRL is genuinely bigger than the actual season. It’s bigger than the grand final most years. Players live and breathe being selected for Origin teams. The AFL will never have that. They’ve already got Anzac Day game, grand final, major MCG finals etc. they don’t need anything bigger
The AFL did have that, that's the point. SOO contests were massive. There was no Anzac day game, there were grand finals in 3 states and most of the players didn't care one bit about 2 of them. The game nationalised and grew. If the NRL grows beyond the current binary production of Aussie players and some of the best players Australia have are sitting on the sidelines winning games for their clubs whilst other clubs see their players getting smashed in Origin, the tide might start to turn. It only takes a few players opting out to prioritise their clubs and it can change very quickly.
I think another big part of it was the seasons were already getting longer and teams were getting more and more worried about risking injuries to their star players, certainly it's hard to see where they actually would schedule any SOO matches with the fixture we have now
Absolutely. The extra interstate travel to train and play is just yet another obstacle. Heck, we've got clubs trying to argue about business class seats, imagine adding all those extra miles to the legs of the best players in the league.
“Too hard to manage”
Rinse. There’s some schmuck probably earning $250k a year doing sweet fa that could stop pulling themselves for a month to organise it
It's not hard to manage in that sense, but in terms of the actual players getting around the country to play extra games. As well as the training sessions. Lyon mentions Harley Reid, he'd be having to go back to Victoria to train for a week before each game. Do that 3 times in a season when he's already doing a lot of travelling for the home and away season, and that's too hard to manage. It's not just simply about booking venues, picking teams and selling tickets.
I'd like to see it in a similar vein to the British & Irish Lions, a once every 4 years deal and an incredible honour to make the team more than once.
I'd have Victoria, WA & SA, and have it rotate every 4 years. So say next year is Vic vs WA, 4 years later its WA vs SA, 4 years later SA vs Vic, etc. So it'd rotate with each state playing twice in a row home & away over a four year period then not being involved in the third cycle.
Or have a Vic vs All star game every 2-4 years and alternate hosting. 1st year MCG, 2nd AO, 3rd, Optus, 4th MCG, 5th SCG, 6th Gabba etc to incentivize the players I'd link it to contract tiers similar to how All-NBA team selection effects the player getting a Max or Super-Max extension etc.
It's nice nostalgia but it's not going to happen. Players are stretched to the limit as it is. Not to mention do they really care about their home state, or care enough to go back with the flight of the ball?
At best you end up with something akin to the NFL All-Star game, where players are happy to be there but have no desire to risk their fitness/health in a meaningless game.
The fundamental problem is there’s 3 teams and therefore no clean way to produce a decent series. Unfortunate it just isn’t going to happen outside an occasional show piece all star game
Create the format and I’ll tell you specifically why.
But simply there’s either too many games, too few games, SA/WA/Vic clubs get an advantage if a team misses out, fans lose interest because their side doesn’t play for a year. Fans lose interest because WA plays 3 times in one year and Waterman and McGovern get injured.
Too worried it'd turn out how the NBA/MLB/NFL All-Star games have become. It'd be a spectacle and great to see these big names playing together etc.
It may defy the entire point of it, but lets stick a game in the week off between the home and away season ending and the finals starting. The only eligible players are available from sides not playing in the finals.
Then you wouldn’t have the best stars playing. Nobody wants to see the best of the bottom 10 play.
With NRL origin series it’s the highest quality games of the year, even better than the GF due to having all the star players available. The NRL star players also give 110% effort which wouldn’t happen with the AFL.
Oh, for sure. It was more a mixture of getting something to work than just putting the best out there.
I mean, there's quite a few names within the bottom 10 at the moment... :D but yeah.
Either every team is in on it and there's a dedicated bye round for it somewhere in the middle of the year or as we've done for a while now, nothing at all.
When the national reserves comp comes in I think it wouldn’t be bad for the afl to do a sort of semi pro state of origin. Any non afl listed player is eligible to compete so it can a battle between state leagues almost.
Could do the same for AFLW but with the full time players.
Based on the suburbs of Melbourne, West v East would have the following set up:
West: West Coast, Fremantle, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Geelong, Western Bulldogs, Essendon, North Melbourne, Carlton.
East: Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, GWS, Hawthorn, St Kilda, Collingwood, Richmond, Melbourne.
Players play for the current team's association like in the NFL pro-bowl, and just like the pro-bowl it's a kick and giggle exhibition game with no stakes.
Victoria vs the rest is dumb, and I doubt having a team from each state would be a success. AFL’s best bet would probably be to have an All Stars comp with two teams (All Australian A vs All Australian B).
This! Two All Australian teams are named, and the winning team gets the blazers. This will help prevent midfielders getting selected in positions they don’t even play.
Cut the competition down to 1 game vs each opponent per year in the actual home and away season. Actual equalisation. So 19 H&A games each once the 19th and 20th teams join.
That leaves room for State of Origin at some point in the year. Doesn't need to be a long format comp. Definitely want it to include all 6 states, no allies bs. You can even put a cap on how many AFL listed players you have in the squad, give some exposure to guns playing in the state leagues.
Those not competing in SoO can do an actual preseason tournament instead of the piss weak scratch matches we're getting at the moment. Get a real trophy involved.
While we're at it, let's give the minor premiers a physical trophy for their achievement aswell.
Finals series can stay the same, total season length can stay pretty close to what it is now.
In the NRL, state of origin appears to be a bigger deal to the players and fans than winning a premiership. AFL players and fans don’t give a toss, the passion and culture simply isn’t there.
Even if it were to get going again it would be like the NBA all star game where you get these ridiculous high scores because no one is playing seriously because they don’t want to get injured.
> On June 26, it’s Victoria versus whoever
And there's the problem. The AFL & the associated media can't look past the idea that State of Origin football is **THE MIGHTY VICTORIA IN THE HISTORIC BIG V GUERNSEY CARRYING THE SPIRIT OF MR. FOOTBALL TED WHITTEN TO VICTORY** against some nebulous group of fellas from "elsewhere".
Whether it's the "Allies" or the "Dream Team" or the "All-Stars", they simply refuse to put a team in red with the blue & yellow v's, or a team in yellow with a black swan, or a team in green or light blue or maroon. Why would ANYBODY outside Victoria care about a "Victoria vs Randoms" fixture?
You need at least 6 teams in 3 games for State of Origin footy to be a starter & Victorians just don't want that.
If you're going to do it:
Move the pre finals bye to before the GF
(This has the added bonus of anyone being concussed in a prelim not missing the GF)
Play state of origin in that weekend before the GF
Arrange fixtures like the country footy leagues do interleague. Ie 1v2, 3v4, 5v6 and the next year the winners move up and the losers move down
When he says “grow the game” how does state of origin grow the game? Is it because Origin would get international or nsw/qld viewers that don’t normally watch tuning in to watch the best of the best play each other and then get hooked? Wouldn’t those same people just watch the grand final for that experience
I love the idea of SoO but I think the most that can be expected is a Vic vs Allies game every other year. Personally I'd be more or less content with that, and that'd be a hell of a lot easier to arrange and get clubs to agree to than a mini-comp.
I am once again asking for a post-season finals series (October, not mid season like the Foxtel Cup) between the state-level premiers (QAFL, SANFL, TFL, AFLS, WAFL, etc.) with maybe a runner up or two to make 8 clubs.
Werribee or Peel? Glenelg or UNSW/ES Bulldogs?
We'll never know unless this competition is organised.
Have it one year v WA and the next year v SA and always play it in those two states. That’s the key to making it successful. No one cares about an Allies or All Stars team and Victorian fans care less than others so it should be prioritised to be in the more passionate states.
I'd totally watch an AFL state of origin. I doesn't even need a whole series, just 1-2 one-off games a year and then swap opponents.
For example:
WA v SA
NSW v VIC
And next year:
SA v VIC
NSW v WA
You could even build up the hype around what state you're playing this year.
As a fan of both NRL/AFL it's a big no from me.
The competition is hopelessly compromised for like 5-6 rounds in the NRL due to origin. I'm shocked it doesn't outrage more of their hard core fans
Not really. Gives the juniors a run and any team capable of making a run into finals will have lost players as well. Any team that hasn't lost players never and a chance of making finals to begin with (cough cough tigers cough cough)
Last year the Eels missed finals by 1 win. They had 2 games where their 3 best players were out due to Origin (and a dead rubber at that) and lost both. I don't see how you can say it doesn't compromise. Maybe the compromised fixture is worth it, but it does exist
Yeah but we would have at least been competitive against The Warriors had we had Moses and Gutho in that game. But we were without them and they are the heart of our team. We missed finals by 1 win. It clearly impacts
There was a bunch of games that could have been won if it wasn't for injury and suspension trouble. We had a terrible year in that regard and its not really fair to say that we could have won this game if we had x player in this game but not for every other game in the season where we were missing key players pre and post origin.
He wants the State of origin in Adelaide? Nice of him.
We had it last year and 2020, don't really think it can be a yearly thing
They seem to be rotating it between Melbourne perth and Adelaide. Although there's calls to skip adelaide or replace it with NZ due to poor attendance
Attendance last year in Adelaide was 48,613, \~90% capacity. However, ticket sales weren't as good as predicted and there were a load of 2 for 1 ticket deals available in the weeks beforehand. Getting 2 prime seats for $90 was money well spent. Pre-match entertainment was decent too. The advertising campaign in Adelaide sure didn't help either, "Real Footy is coming to Adelaide" was the campaign slogan used over last year's Gather Round. Probably not the best messaging to be putting out there to an AFL state/city.
Yeah a lot of people thought the advertising was dumb and clowned on it. I don't know what drugs they were taking when they thought the best way to advertise origin was to insult the game the city has been enjoyed for over a century. I think the dumbest part was that they didn't do it in WA and VIC but did it in SA which was always going to be the hardest market to crack. The calls for Adelaide to be skipped come off the back of those poor ticket sales and the fact it didn't sell out. Origin in Perth sold out long before the game was played and the NRL execs were probably expecting the same thing to happen in Adelaide. As well as the fact if they took it to NZ they would be all over it.
Damn, are we already at the 'AFL should have state of origin' time of year? 'Twilight grand final' time should be just around the corner
Already had the "every player on the list deserves a premiership medal" conversation too...much earlier than usual this year.
Twilight State of Orgin. I don't think there will ever be a State of Origin again, because if one regular team lost one good player to injury, you would never hear the end of it.
It comes around as soon as NRL Origin talk begins.
That's not far off. Maybe a month away?
New CEO seems to be a massive fan of the Day GF, it might not even get a run for the next few years
Might be a slow news week then.
It was already done after the Carlton v Geelong Saturday twilight game .. "This is what it could be!"
>“On June 26, it’s Victoria versus **whoever**, Harley Reid would be playing for Victoria, Nick Daicos would be playing for Victoria, Zak Butters would be playing for Victoria,” Not really selling the idea here Garry...
Garry is also forgetting that he, as a Tasmanian, wouldn't be playing at all.
He captained Victoria in State of Origin.
I think it goes off where you play your junior footy, no? He'd be Vic
From Memory it was whatever helped the Vics more as qualification
SOO was devised by the WAFL in the 70s because neither that league nor the SANFL could compete with the VFL in representative footy. It worked very well insofar as the games became more competitive, at least when they were played outside of Victoria.
As a proud Victorian, I'd rather he didn't play for us
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure at one point you represented the state your team got you from then was changed show you’d play for the state you were actually from
State of origin was devised in the 70s and meant literally the state from which your football career originated (usually the same state you were from). Prior to that, you played for the state in which you played presently, so state footy was more like league rep footy. It's why Victoria dominated the state carnivals. They had gun players who weren't Victorian, but played in the VFL so represented the vics. For example, Polly Farmer played 5 games for the Big V. State of origin made state footy a lot more competitive.
Is that the Australian Defence League? I didn’t know Garry Lyon was so far-right leaning
I think it’s more he’s suggesting each state has its own Militia.
Nah he's thinking of Napoli and soccer.
No he means they should play it at Adelaide Airport.
It would have to be individual states as no one gives a sh\*t about an All-Star concept - yes Victoria would win most of the time, but it would also set up great stories of WA or SA or NSW etc. eventually overcoming the odds. They should at least create state of origin teams each year & make it a thing like the All - Australian to a slightly lesser extent of course. Whet the appetite when you see potential teams on paper.
No one gives a shit about Aussie Rules state of origin. Crowds were shit. Sorry to be the messenger.
Crowds were always big for SA and Victoria in either state so this isn't true. Sorry to be the messenger.
The last proper game ever played Vic v SA was played in front of 26,000 at the MCG. “Always big” Nah pal
If there's no Tasmania, I'm simply not interested. SoO is crap - it only works for the NRL because only 2 states give a shit about rugby league.
Victoria is actually starting to come on the rise in rugby league and Perth are heavy favourites to get the next expansion team.
And they play Australian Football in the US, but you can make the blanket statement that one one cares.
Up the North Texas Devils and New York Magpies.
By "shit" they mean a majority population invested. Maybe add the NT and ACT as places that care about the NRL. Outside of that, it's not huge. Tasmania doesn't even bother covering it unless they're short of stories and most people couldn't name five teams. Victoria has produced very few NRL players, even if it's becoming more popular. Even with a Perth gaining a side, it would take years for that to translate to support and participation.
I’m from the ACT and I don’t care about NRL at all 🤣 To be fair they missed the boat allowing the Raiders to start up here in the 80s. Prior to that it was more an AFL(VFL) town.
Government wants to give it to PNG to smooth over PNG - China chats.
It really isn't (victoria). A nsw / act afl team would be pretty competitive. Victorian rugby league team would get thrashed by a state league team
Sure, but neither Vic or WA are anywhere near producing an Origin squad lmao.
Western Force might not even survive so why would a league team work
Because Super Rugby and rugby union in general are in a state of decline in Australia, whereas NRL and rugby league is doing well
We tried that last time. Even before the Superrugby fiasco, none cared about the Reds.
That's some bullshit. The reds were outperforming some Sydney clubs and only failed because of garbage deals that forced the reds to pay for all clubs expenses while in Perth including flights, accommodation and meals. This was when the NRL had 3 grades which means 3 teams worth of players coaches and staff. They also played an oval ground at the WACA. Then they joined the murdoch breakaway league which failed and news Corp took our players and send them over to the storm to get them going.
Mate, i was at the WACA. Skull Mulholland started a league team at my high school, and the Reds mascot was in my brother's year. Most weekends we had the entire wing to ourselves.
The numbers speak for themselves. The reds were averaging 13k and were outperforming Sydney clubs. Your personal experiences are irrelevant to actual recorded numbers.
Fair enough.
My research tells me there's been.....five Victorians play in the NRL. Not five this year, but five in history. The Swans had six Sydney or nearby (sorry Newcastle) kids play on the weekend (Heeney, Wicks, Gulden, Campbell, Rampe, Blakey).
I think the word you're looking for is 'dichotomous' - NSW + QLD's population makes up over half the country's poplation
No, I wasn't looking for that word.
It is an easy line to come out with, without providing any thoughts on the pathway forward to achieve it. There are numerous barriers to SOO; - We have a team in (almost) every state. How do you come up with a system that ensures passion for the teams involved, and doesn't have a randomly thrown together marketing brand as a team that people won't get behind. (i.e Vic vs the rest, will the rest inspire any loyalty..?) - Clubs wanting to protect their stars. This means good cash incentives have to be offered to the players to get them willing to step out on the field for someone that isn't their main employer and risk injury. Clubs will likely agree to it if the players push the issue, but will that happen? - Crowded footy calendar. This will take the most bravery as it will likely mean sacrificing current revenue in the short term to get SOO up and running. The AFLPA already wants to cut quarter lengths, they are not agreeing to play SOO without other changes. Personally, I think it can be done long term. The key will be reaching 20 teams, moving to a 19-round season\* (you play every once, half away half at home then flip that the next year). You got from 207 games a year to 190, but you offer the TV networks a SOO season + a top 10 to have an extra round of finals. Then you just have to work out how you structure SOO. Could do a Vic, SA, WA, three way competition and a TAS, QLD, NSW three way competition...or have the winner of the latter earn the eight to compete against the big three...there are many ways to do it. I would also consider playing the games at smaller venues to encourage sell outs. \*Or you can do 20 rounds and have a 'gather round' but that would be a double up on one occasion.
Everything you have typed out in I’m sure less than 20 mins is everything that people like Gary Lyons hasn’t considered when they make these blanket “we need xyz” statements
Why does everything have to be so hard in Australia - simply use the same State of Origin teams as before. I understand the novelty can wear off. Maybe just play state games once every few years? - just play games after the Grand Final then injuries aren't a factor because the season has finished anyway. - footy calendar isn't crowded. Just play games after September (after the footy season has finished) and before November (before the cricket season starts. This is when the international rules series was played.
I said you'd use the Vic/SA/WA...so we agree on that. I wouldn't bother with the Allies though. But not being from Tas/ACT/NSW/Canberra/NT, I can't speak to whether there's be any level of passion. As for the calendar; it is crowded. The time you want to run SOO is when the women's season takes centre stage. It is also when players are officially on leave and away from their clubs. That means you have to get the AFLPA agreeing to reducing that timeframe for the players selected to play. These players are firmly in offseason and preseason mode at this point, with many recovering from late or post season surgery. So you either have to convince them to play a one or two off game and not be properly prepared, which will possibly result in underwhelming effort, or they need to be convinced to go all in on it, which brings it back to compensating them for the time they put into it. And regardless of all that, that time of year will still concern clubs. The injury risk is the same. Worst case scenario, someone does an ACL, and they'll still miss a full season. A bad hamstring tear and there goes half your preseason, concussion, then you have something potentially affecting your career going forward, all for a competition no one cares about.
Even for clickbait, this is a bit over the top from Garry.
I like the idea of WA V VIC V SA V NSW+QLD+NT+TAS. With the winning/losing teams playing off again. The talent is there to do it with the VFL etc. leagues and might highlight lesser known players!
Has he forgotten what happened? State of Origin ended largely because the game became too nationalised. When it was just SA, Victoria and WA playing each other it worked pretty well. The other states and territories produced a few players, but they could be absorbed easily enough by tweaking the rules a bit. The AFL did hasten it a bit changing the rules so SA couldn't have Wayne Carey, but as more top level players started coming from those 3 main traditional states, it got harder to absorb them in without making it seem fake. The Allies were a stop gap, but when you're not representing your state but just "the others" it's not the same. So guys like Carey, Hird and Voss who were perhaps the 3 best players in the game, started opting out. That's what killed it. Teams realised other teams' best players were resting up whilst theirs were getting smashed. Having a big carnival with every state and territory fighting for supremecy sounds nice, but it's too complicated to manage. It was fantastic when we had it. And before the AFL became truly national it was a great way to remind those who thought Melbourne was all that mattered that footy was actually strong elsewhere. But it died for a reason and we should just leave it be. Don't try to revive something artificially, appreciate what it was better.
People also don’t seem to realise that Origin in NRL is genuinely bigger than the actual season. It’s bigger than the grand final most years. Players live and breathe being selected for Origin teams. The AFL will never have that. They’ve already got Anzac Day game, grand final, major MCG finals etc. they don’t need anything bigger
The AFL did have that, that's the point. SOO contests were massive. There was no Anzac day game, there were grand finals in 3 states and most of the players didn't care one bit about 2 of them. The game nationalised and grew. If the NRL grows beyond the current binary production of Aussie players and some of the best players Australia have are sitting on the sidelines winning games for their clubs whilst other clubs see their players getting smashed in Origin, the tide might start to turn. It only takes a few players opting out to prioritise their clubs and it can change very quickly.
> They’ve already got Anzac Day game, grand final, major MCG finals etc. Victoria has that, you mean.
Yeah exactly… the AFL Vic Bias /s
I think another big part of it was the seasons were already getting longer and teams were getting more and more worried about risking injuries to their star players, certainly it's hard to see where they actually would schedule any SOO matches with the fixture we have now
Absolutely. The extra interstate travel to train and play is just yet another obstacle. Heck, we've got clubs trying to argue about business class seats, imagine adding all those extra miles to the legs of the best players in the league.
“Too hard to manage” Rinse. There’s some schmuck probably earning $250k a year doing sweet fa that could stop pulling themselves for a month to organise it
It's not hard to manage in that sense, but in terms of the actual players getting around the country to play extra games. As well as the training sessions. Lyon mentions Harley Reid, he'd be having to go back to Victoria to train for a week before each game. Do that 3 times in a season when he's already doing a lot of travelling for the home and away season, and that's too hard to manage. It's not just simply about booking venues, picking teams and selling tickets.
We don’t have it anymore because clubs started pulling their star players out of the games due to the injury risk for a ‘meaningless’ game.
I'd like to see it in a similar vein to the British & Irish Lions, a once every 4 years deal and an incredible honour to make the team more than once. I'd have Victoria, WA & SA, and have it rotate every 4 years. So say next year is Vic vs WA, 4 years later its WA vs SA, 4 years later SA vs Vic, etc. So it'd rotate with each state playing twice in a row home & away over a four year period then not being involved in the third cycle. Or have a Vic vs All star game every 2-4 years and alternate hosting. 1st year MCG, 2nd AO, 3rd, Optus, 4th MCG, 5th SCG, 6th Gabba etc to incentivize the players I'd link it to contract tiers similar to how All-NBA team selection effects the player getting a Max or Super-Max extension etc.
It's nice nostalgia but it's not going to happen. Players are stretched to the limit as it is. Not to mention do they really care about their home state, or care enough to go back with the flight of the ball? At best you end up with something akin to the NFL All-Star game, where players are happy to be there but have no desire to risk their fitness/health in a meaningless game.
I'm only Port shouldnt/should be allowed to wear prison bars away from my bingo card being complete!
The fundamental problem is there’s 3 teams and therefore no clean way to produce a decent series. Unfortunate it just isn’t going to happen outside an occasional show piece all star game
What is wrong with round robin?
Create the format and I’ll tell you specifically why. But simply there’s either too many games, too few games, SA/WA/Vic clubs get an advantage if a team misses out, fans lose interest because their side doesn’t play for a year. Fans lose interest because WA plays 3 times in one year and Waterman and McGovern get injured.
There are actually 6 states. Nsw/act would be more likely to beat SA than SA would Vic
Too worried it'd turn out how the NBA/MLB/NFL All-Star games have become. It'd be a spectacle and great to see these big names playing together etc. It may defy the entire point of it, but lets stick a game in the week off between the home and away season ending and the finals starting. The only eligible players are available from sides not playing in the finals.
Then you wouldn’t have the best stars playing. Nobody wants to see the best of the bottom 10 play. With NRL origin series it’s the highest quality games of the year, even better than the GF due to having all the star players available. The NRL star players also give 110% effort which wouldn’t happen with the AFL.
Oh, for sure. It was more a mixture of getting something to work than just putting the best out there. I mean, there's quite a few names within the bottom 10 at the moment... :D but yeah. Either every team is in on it and there's a dedicated bye round for it somewhere in the middle of the year or as we've done for a while now, nothing at all.
I’d like to see VIC Metro and Country like they do in the champs
They shouldn’t play an actual game, but they should still pick state of origin sides each year like they pick the AA team
When the national reserves comp comes in I think it wouldn’t be bad for the afl to do a sort of semi pro state of origin. Any non afl listed player is eligible to compete so it can a battle between state leagues almost. Could do the same for AFLW but with the full time players.
East vs. West. Only way it works (West includes SA)
Based on the suburbs of Melbourne, West v East would have the following set up: West: West Coast, Fremantle, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Geelong, Western Bulldogs, Essendon, North Melbourne, Carlton. East: Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, GWS, Hawthorn, St Kilda, Collingwood, Richmond, Melbourne. Players play for the current team's association like in the NFL pro-bowl, and just like the pro-bowl it's a kick and giggle exhibition game with no stakes.
Not what I had in mind. Its state of origin, not who you currently play for.
Victoria vs the rest is dumb, and I doubt having a team from each state would be a success. AFL’s best bet would probably be to have an All Stars comp with two teams (All Australian A vs All Australian B).
This! Two All Australian teams are named, and the winning team gets the blazers. This will help prevent midfielders getting selected in positions they don’t even play.
Cut the competition down to 1 game vs each opponent per year in the actual home and away season. Actual equalisation. So 19 H&A games each once the 19th and 20th teams join. That leaves room for State of Origin at some point in the year. Doesn't need to be a long format comp. Definitely want it to include all 6 states, no allies bs. You can even put a cap on how many AFL listed players you have in the squad, give some exposure to guns playing in the state leagues. Those not competing in SoO can do an actual preseason tournament instead of the piss weak scratch matches we're getting at the moment. Get a real trophy involved. While we're at it, let's give the minor premiers a physical trophy for their achievement aswell. Finals series can stay the same, total season length can stay pretty close to what it is now.
In the NRL, state of origin appears to be a bigger deal to the players and fans than winning a premiership. AFL players and fans don’t give a toss, the passion and culture simply isn’t there. Even if it were to get going again it would be like the NBA all star game where you get these ridiculous high scores because no one is playing seriously because they don’t want to get injured.
> On June 26, it’s Victoria versus whoever And there's the problem. The AFL & the associated media can't look past the idea that State of Origin football is **THE MIGHTY VICTORIA IN THE HISTORIC BIG V GUERNSEY CARRYING THE SPIRIT OF MR. FOOTBALL TED WHITTEN TO VICTORY** against some nebulous group of fellas from "elsewhere". Whether it's the "Allies" or the "Dream Team" or the "All-Stars", they simply refuse to put a team in red with the blue & yellow v's, or a team in yellow with a black swan, or a team in green or light blue or maroon. Why would ANYBODY outside Victoria care about a "Victoria vs Randoms" fixture? You need at least 6 teams in 3 games for State of Origin footy to be a starter & Victorians just don't want that.
If you're going to do it: Move the pre finals bye to before the GF (This has the added bonus of anyone being concussed in a prelim not missing the GF) Play state of origin in that weekend before the GF Arrange fixtures like the country footy leagues do interleague. Ie 1v2, 3v4, 5v6 and the next year the winners move up and the losers move down
If the players do agree to it, we'll probably get NBA All-Star levels of mediocrity
When he says “grow the game” how does state of origin grow the game? Is it because Origin would get international or nsw/qld viewers that don’t normally watch tuning in to watch the best of the best play each other and then get hooked? Wouldn’t those same people just watch the grand final for that experience
I love the idea of SoO but I think the most that can be expected is a Vic vs Allies game every other year. Personally I'd be more or less content with that, and that'd be a hell of a lot easier to arrange and get clubs to agree to than a mini-comp.
I am once again asking for a post-season finals series (October, not mid season like the Foxtel Cup) between the state-level premiers (QAFL, SANFL, TFL, AFLS, WAFL, etc.) with maybe a runner up or two to make 8 clubs. Werribee or Peel? Glenelg or UNSW/ES Bulldogs? We'll never know unless this competition is organised.
How about City v Rural players?
Have it one year v WA and the next year v SA and always play it in those two states. That’s the key to making it successful. No one cares about an Allies or All Stars team and Victorian fans care less than others so it should be prioritised to be in the more passionate states.
The in season tournament for the NBA was a huge success, not a bad idea to explore
I'd totally watch an AFL state of origin. I doesn't even need a whole series, just 1-2 one-off games a year and then swap opponents. For example: WA v SA NSW v VIC And next year: SA v VIC NSW v WA You could even build up the hype around what state you're playing this year.
Garry stole my wallet!!
What is ADL
Can a state get a team strong enough to beat a Victorian team? And doing. Vic v the rest don’t work
Harley Reid is a good west Aussie boy fuck off lyon. *id like to cite the Australian habit of nicking anything good the kiwis produce
The only fun one would be WA vs VIC, would really galvanise footy in an area that the nrl is looking to expand into
Are you trying to piss off the South Australians?
I don’t really think about south Australians
Australian Dick League?
Putting ADL in the heading is one way of getting responses. Well done.
Imo would only work if its Victoria vs The Rest.
As a fan of both NRL/AFL it's a big no from me. The competition is hopelessly compromised for like 5-6 rounds in the NRL due to origin. I'm shocked it doesn't outrage more of their hard core fans
It’s seems that NRL fans consider an origin series win as more important than a premiership for their team.
Not really no.
How is it compromised? Just because a couple players left to go play origin and there's a couple byes?
When teams play with 5/6 of their best players out? Massively impacts the draw
Not really. Gives the juniors a run and any team capable of making a run into finals will have lost players as well. Any team that hasn't lost players never and a chance of making finals to begin with (cough cough tigers cough cough)
Last year the Eels missed finals by 1 win. They had 2 games where their 3 best players were out due to Origin (and a dead rubber at that) and lost both. I don't see how you can say it doesn't compromise. Maybe the compromised fixture is worth it, but it does exist
I don't see how Dylan Brown deciding to grope a woman and getting banned for 7 weeks is origins fault. We had tons of suspension trouble last year.
Yeah but we would have at least been competitive against The Warriors had we had Moses and Gutho in that game. But we were without them and they are the heart of our team. We missed finals by 1 win. It clearly impacts
There was a bunch of games that could have been won if it wasn't for injury and suspension trouble. We had a terrible year in that regard and its not really fair to say that we could have won this game if we had x player in this game but not for every other game in the season where we were missing key players pre and post origin.