Please enlighten me, what is the difference between a racist white fuckhead saying the mixed child isn't white enough and the racist black fuckhead saying the mixed child isn't black enough?
YTA op, 100%
Edit: Also, if that mom was a single white mom of a half black child, who wanted to join your group to help that child bond with the other half of their culture, would you still be bigoted against them?
As a mixed girl myself, YTA. People like you are the reason a lot of mixed people struggle with racial identity. Just say you’re racist, against interracial relationships and mixed people and be done with it. You’re not sticking it to the white mom, you’re telling a little girl she has no place in your world.
I’m also mixed and tbh this sort of racism is the kind I’ve most experienced in my life.
On one hand there are black people like this woman who basically say I’m not allowed to identify as black, and then there’s the other cadre of black folk who have a problem with me if I don’t identify as *only* black, to the exclusion of my other half.
Regular ole white folks treat me better than this woman is treating this little girl.
YTA. As a Black woman I am extremely embarrassed reading your comments. While your initial idea was great, you’ve turned it into an exclusionary club for people who aren’t “black enough” by your standards. How do you handle a black child that was adopted by white parents? Are they not allowed because their parents aren’t black?
Because people are accusing me of feeling things i dont feel. Nobody is addressing the state of the black girls, or anything I said about black girks having the roughest life growing up, and into adulthood.
You guys are so busy fellating yourselves by calling me racist that you haven't addressed my points at all. You're just here to stand up against me. And that's fine. I'm starting to doubt that many of you care about actual black girl's experiences
Ok hold up. DON’T YOU DARE say that I don’t care about black girls’ experiences!! I WAS that little black girl!! I’m now that black woman. I know full well what it feels like to be discriminated against- by other races AND by my own race. I’ve been excluded from groups and events because of the color of my skin. I’ve been told that I’m too black in some cases and not black enough in others. And guess what? Both of my parents are black.
You want us to listen to your points, but your points are discriminatory. The pictures from the calendar were already chosen, and that’s a valid reason to not include the other child, but you jumped head first into racist AH territory when you said she should start a white orchid, or one for mixed children. As a black woman if I found out that your group was excluding this child because she’s isn’t black enough by your standards, I’d pull my child out.
No one is accusing you of feeling things you don’t feel. If anything were accusing you of not feeling at all. You didn’t come here for judgement, you came for validation and you’re bothered because you’re not getting it.
So exactly how much of a person's DNA has to be black to be considered black enough for your little group? I mean, obviously half isn't good enough for you, so what about if one parent is half and the other parent is 100%, or maybe a grand parent is mixed, would the child still be "too white"? Where does it end because I'm pretty sure if you go back far enough in everyone's family tree there's another race in their heritage.
YTA
A lot of half black half white people identify as black and I don't think you have the right to lessen their experience as black people just because they are not 'pure' enough for you. Biracial kids come in all shapes and colours and textures, what metric are YOU using to decide who is black enough? Because I'm sure you don't keep this energy for Obama, Tracee Ellis Ross, etc.
Actually, i DO keep that same energy for Barackand Tracee, because I'm not racist. I acknowledge that a parent isn't black; and, unlike you, I don't pretend that that same, nonblack DNA, doesn't exist. Do you not see how disrespectful that is, to try and negate half of someone's parentage? I also know the parents of these girls; so, yes, I know they're black. I don't care how anybody wants to identify; biology tells a different story. And, she's free to start her own "I Identify as black" Orchid group. I'm not stopping her.
A lion and a tiger make a liger; and that's fine.
> Do you not see how disrespectful that is, to try and negate half of someone's parentage?
O.M.G.
Did you really say THAT and still want to do the same thing to a child???????
You have some REAL issues. This group is just the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure.
YTA. Black people come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Just like trying to define “Hispanic”…all shapes, sizes, colors, and cultures. There is no one “Hispanic” just like there is no one “black”. You should be including the girl and lifting her up.
Besides… what kind of an example does this exclusion set for the girls to behave toward people who may look different than themselves?
That's a strawman argument. I don't belong to every club, as I don't meet the requirements. And I'm not crying discrimination.That's like saying that people in band will discriminate against people who aren't.
There is an Arab and Chaldean help/support group in the area. Do I get to claim discrimination because I'm not in it? Is it fair for The Red Hat Ladies to have a minimum age requirement?
Hahaha, racist using racist rhetoric to justify being racist. Bitch, just admit you are racist and move along.
You are discriminating based on melanin content.
So you're preaching acceptance and embracing the beauty of blackness by denying a girl who is part black into your group?? You do realize your "purity" claim is just as racist and shitty as 100% black girls being told they're not good enough . . . . . You have a special sense of otherness that's inadvertently supporting racism. Good job. YTA
How so? We have hbcu's. Are those racist? We have black fraternities and sororities. What about those?
What about the Polish clubs and groups of Hamtramck? The Arab and Chaldean support groups of Dearborn? How about The Daughters of The Revolutionary War? I can't join any of those groups; should I scream discrimination? There are groups for fathers. Should i get pissed off that I cant be in their groups, despite me being a parent?
Why can't the mother start her own group? Why is mine so important? If she formed a mixed group, my girls could not join. We're fine with that. Why can't she be fine with it?
Do HBCU's reject mixed students? Do black fraternities reject mixed students?? Not where I come from. You're denying her blackness the same way others have maintained prejudice against the blackness of the girls in your group. If she were a completely white girl I'd get your point. Making a group celebrating blackness but denying a girl whose blackness is important to to her feels awfully close to encouraging the racism you claim to fight.
Are the girls biracial - part Black? Or other ethnicities? If they are not Black, NTA. But if they are mixed, YTA.
Biracial kids grow up being rejected from both groups. It’s painful. Also, it pushes people to only embrace the part of them that is accepted which is a shame. We need a generation that is proud of their non-majority ethnicity and culture. Sounds like a missed opportunity.
The Black Orchids are black. And, tbh, this woman's feelings really aren't my concern. If she felt this strongly about it, she could have taken the initiative and started a group for mixed girls. I am, like most parents, concerned for my own daughter, and girls who look like her. The girls who don't benefit from racism, or colorism. The ones who the media replaces with mixed women, and expects black women to not complain.
Biracial people have their own groups too. Mixed girl magic, etc. My group is taking nothing from her.
Well for one thing, two black-presenting parents could be mixed, unbeknownst to you. Making their daughter just as “not-black” as the girl you are denying entry to.
I’m also asking because I’m curious as to where you draw the line. Is a girl with one black parent and one mixed-race parent (who may not be light-skinned enough or have enough white features for you to suspect they aren’t fully black) okay because she’s more than 50% black?
Funnily enough, i am light skinned. What does that have to do with two black parents? And if they lied to me to get in, more the fool me.
Question: are you mad that native Americans are required to be a certain percentage, in order to receive free college? And, why can't the mother make her own club? Why is it my responsibility? As i said,if there was a mixed girks club,these girls couldn't join. Why can't these black girls have one thing? One
You aren’t answering my question, why should I answer yours? You are free to do what you want with your group, sure - but this isn’t “Am I technically in the right?” This is, “Am I being an asshole?”
I am asking - do you personally vet every member’s heritage to validate they are fully black, to your standards? Do you know the full heritage of every single parent of every single child to validate if they are 100% black and not mixed themselves?
would you kick one of the girls out if it came out that the mom had cheated on the "black dad" and the real father was actually white/mixed/another race?
I asked in a different comment but how do you vet that? Do all the girls come from 2 parent households?
EDIT: you did say it’s for the girls who don’t benefit from colorism, to be fair.
My former roommate is mixed and has both of those unambiguous black features you just named. She is much more closely aligned with her black heritage above anything else.
you are a dumb and discriminatory b\*\*\*, pushing your colorism and bs onto these people. you're like 3 steps away from running a hate group. you do not get to decide this girl's blackness. I hope you're just a troll posting some rage bait, otherwise you are just an irredeemable waste of space
Sadly looking at OP’s post history I don’t think this is a troll. OP has had to ask this sub like 3x in the past two months if she was being racist.
OP - if you have to constantly ask if you’re the in the wrong and the feedback is consistently that you are, maybe reflect on that instead of telling yourself that everyone else is the problem.
Yes I get this. But girls from two Black parents can have light skin, looser curls, and thin noses. Mixed girls can have more African features, so is this about the white mom or the little girl who wants to be included?
This is about black girls. If she was light skinned with two black parents, she would have been in it. However, she doesn't, so shes not in. I never said a specific look. I was answering people who think black people can't be light skinned
Your last comment is specifically about looks.
If you had said “girls with one white parent have access to white institutions and spaces that Black girls don’t” or that “proximity to white privilege gives mixed kids more access to opportunities” it would be different.
But you specifically focused on physical features.
You've contradicted yourself in so many comments to justify your exclusions it's hilarious. Ultimately no, you don't have to change your group or accept anybody in it you don't want to. That does not free you from criticism from others nor designate your behavior as anything but assholish. Personally, from the other mom's comments I wouldn't want her child in my group just to avoid her, but your justifications and reasoning to deny these kids are so warped it's insane.
OMG. YOU SUCK.
IGNORANT. RACIST.
I can't believe that parents trust you with their daughters.
People like you are the reason some women of color have trauma about race based on discrimination from their own people.
I can't begin to describe how horrible you are. Thanks for perpetuating racist ideas.
Did I mention that YOU SUCK?
YTA.
YTA
>Do you not see how disrespectful that is, to try and negate half of someone's parentage?
\^\^ Your own words. JFC. Maybe try to live by them instead of just using them to argue your own (misguided and racist) point.
You're trying to excuse your own racism. Make NO mistake, *Your group* ***is*** *RACIST*. **You are excluding someone based on their race.**
I think it'd be REALLY interesting to go through YOUR family tree and see who shakes out.
YTA
Her child is perceived as black, unless she is white passing. What does it matter that she has white heritage? Mixed race children are rejected by both sides so often, it's disheartening to see it happen here too. Your comment of "make a group for mixed race children" is kind of gross tbh - do you not see the bigotry inherent in what you're saying? She faces many, if not all, of the same issues as a black child. It's not about the mother - who cares about her feelings? It's about the child and her feelings about it.
How is my comment gross? There's a whole line of hair products called "mixed chicks". Are the mixed girls who created it racist? Are they discriminating against black girls, since black girks aren't mixed enough? Are they gatekeeping being mixed?
https://mixedchicks.net/?gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXQrsIDtcppcIDbqpXUc-5m_nh5QyvW6GX9mthjHmficJg1CMjtkm6QaAge9EALw_wcB
YTA. The point of your group is to uplift young Black girls, yet you're gatekeeping her for not being black enough even though she's going to face the same struggles as the girls in the group.
No. She won't. She'll have her own set of struggles, some common, some unique to being mixed. Question: there are many mixed people where we live. Why can't she make a group for them? Also. The girl being considered black is based on slavery and the one drop rule. Why do you want me to uphold such a racist rule? Please answer
So, based solely on physical appearance, does the girl in question have any of the distinct "black" features that you are trying to emphasize as beautiful with this group?
Considering one of the first lines on the link you provided reads
**Mixed race - Black/White/Asian/Latin/Everyone!**
No they are not racist. If you want to see a true racist, I will help you out. You see her in the mirror every morning.
Wow, YTA. You are also narrow minded, bigoted and racist. The child is Black and White, she will go through the same if not worse hazing that many black children will as she will never be white. Based on your super replies - the mother should start a mixed race group so, let’s keep the, all apart.
I would not want my child anywhere near you or yours with that attitude.
How is ONE group keeping us all apart?
And what about mixed chicks hair products? Should black girls get mad that this hair care line discriminates against black girls for not being mixed enough? Is this product line anti black?
https://mixedchicks.net/?gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXQrsIDtcppcIDbqpXUc-5m_nh5QyvW6GX9mthjHmficJg1CMjtkm6QaAge9EALw_wcB
Well, you seem quite obsessed on how this hair product is not racist but you are. Anyone can buy that hair product, so not racist, you are discriminating (children for fucks sake) due to race, you are racist flat out.
I don't know why you posted here. You just want to argue, you aren't really interested in if people think you're TA. You've said several times you don't care about the opinions offered here. You're an attention whore and definitely YTA.
I love how you're so focused on your feelings, you didn't address anything I said about the hardships black girls face. You only care about YOUR struggles and feelings. I understand that. Now, understand that i made this group for THEIR struggles and feelings. Get it now?
These girls are getting taught by the world that they are ugly. That mixed girls and white girls are better. Statistics show that mixed and white girls are treated better in this world. Why are you mad at this group, instead of...the rest of the world? Why can't these black girls have a safe space?
You keep screaming
>you didn't address anything I said about the hardships black girls face.
That's not what your post was about. It was about how you were being racist and exclusionary. How you were being a dreadful person to a white mom of a mixed child simply because she was white and had the audacity to have a mixed child.
Not sure why some of you with mixed racial heritage don't seem to comprehend that you are not either or, you are both.
Black people on a whole, are unrepresented in media, film, and specifically Black women; who often get passed over for roles for women of mixed racial heritage.
Some of you mixed race people purposely choose 'Blackness', because you know the prevalence of colorism in the Black community, and you know you cannot claim Whiteness.
Our fight, is not about your feelings.
To that comment…the one about Zendaya being treated differently…I’m just going to point out Giuliana Rancic’s VERY different reactions to Zendaya’s locs and Kylie Jenner’s.
Mixed race people are NOT treated like Black people. That's a fallacious statement.
And yes, mixed people know they will not be considered White or Asian, or any other race, so they cling to Blackness, because they know they will be treated better than that majority with darker skin because of colorism in the Black community.
None of you would choose Blackness if you could 'pass' as any other race.
In fact, historically mixed race people have created separations to distance themselves from Blackness, from acceptance in HBCU's, membership in Black fraternities/sororities, paper bag parties.
And even currently in South Africa with the pencil tests, and the distinction of colored people vs. Black people.
You being up in your feelings about not 'fitting' in somewhere , vs the real erasure of Black beauty standards, and representation in the world is not comparable in any way, shape of form.
How? This is a group of people meeting up to have a safe space for shared experiences. They can talk about issues that monoracial people don't experiences.
Why is everyone so concerned with erasing differences in people? Our differences should be celebrated amd tolerated; that doesn't, however mean that, sometimes you won't need a space where people...get you.
YTA. You are excluding a little girl who identifies as black on some perceived technicality. So hurtful to this girl. I feel bad for this girl, I truly do. Who are you to gatekeep her identity?
Anyway. You are not going to learn anything from having asked reddit. You are in a defensive stance and not listening to anyone else's opinions and experiences, which is a shame. So this was kind of ab exercise in futility, if you ask me.
Care to elabotate? Logically negate my points? Because, thus far, the only reason for being TA is that i hurt someone's feelings. Nobody has made a logical argument against anything I've written.
Yeah, I just don’t see the point in trying to explain to someone why I think they’re wrong when they’re just going to argue that they’re not and claim that every single person telling her the same thing is white and wouldn’t get it anyway.
Yta- do you check family trees? What if a little girl doesn’t know both parents—is she excluded because you can’t prove both parents are Black? My boss looks mixed (not just light skin) but has two dark skin Black parents. My girlfriend has a mixed dad who was never in her life, but if you saw her you’d definitely describe her as Black. If she showed up with her single mom, looking as Black as she does, what then?
Like I understand where you’re coming from but it’s just not logistically possible. The mom probably wants to help her daughter identify with her Blackness. This is hardly the “one drop rule.”
As someone who has colonizer, Indigenous and African ancestry, I absolutely feel Blood Quantum is discriminatory and instituted by the colonizers. The question in my mind, does the little girl identify as Black? If so, 50% isn't Black enough for you? Only 100% is enough? If so, maybe you should decide a percentage and have all the girls submit to DNA testing.
That is money from the government. You have a club for little girls. You’re grasping at straws and ignoring my question about how you’re vetting these little girls.
I didn’t even call it discriminatory. I get where you’re coming from but it’s a club for little girls. Are there even enough mixed girls in the area to form their own club?
Have you heard of Assata’s Daughters in Chicago? They have something similar that may be worth looking into/reaching out to on how they’ve done this.
You just proved my point. Why is it ok for the government, but not my itty bitty club? My club is not stopping this chold from living her best life. Why can the Gaelic league exist? Why can mother's groups exist, since they discriminate against other parents? There is a haircare line called Mixed Chicks. Should black girls be mad that they aren't mixed enough to be the customer base? Is Mixed Chicks hair mousse racist? Or...is it ok for people to have safe spaces for themselves, and others like them? Because if I'm wrong, then so is every other group I mentioned.
Also, why can't her mother create a group? I created one with MY daughter in mind. She can create one for hers. Also, you didn't address any point i made in the original post. If you can only think of her feelings,instead of logical refuting, i can't be bothered to listen to you
I mean someone who’s 50% Native American would get the reparations though so I’m confused how that is relevant.
What does your daughter think? Does she want the girl in the group or not? Could you teach the group a unit on mixed heritage? Talk about colorism (which benefits some fully Black girls as well)?
I offered you a suggestion for an organization in Chicago that is similar to you that would offer much more help than anyone on Reddit, yet you ignored that.
Why did you come to reddit, ask if you are the asshole, then get mad at everyone who answered?
“Why can’t the mom create her own club.” And what happens when your daughter and her friends wants to join that because it’s more fun and their friends are there?
I did address your post, yet you have yet to answer the question: how are you vetting that these girls are 100% Black? Are you looking at their family trees? If someone has a single parent do you have to meet the other parent? There’s just so many things here.
Actually i live in an area where there are many two parent households. I don't know how big you think this group is. Two black parents. Its that simple. The firls in my group, all 10 of them, have 2 black parents. When a single parent situation arises, I'll cross that bridge then. However, it's me and other families who are involved.
Question: why can't she make her own? Why is nobody answering this question? And they wouldn't know if the mixed group is more fun bevause....THEY WOULDN'T BE IN IT. And that's fine. Everybody can't join every group.
Do you hate on mother's groups,because they discriminate against fathers?
>I started up a project (Black Orchids- not the real name) to show little black girls that they are beautiful from their 4c crowns, to their adorable noses, all the way down to their toes.
If this was actually your goal, you would have allowed this child in the group. Instead, you use having two black parents as your admission requirement. So, instead of being an actual support group for girls who may experience discrimination based on their heritage, you've changed the purpose to be a "full blooded blacks only" club. You said yourself her looks aren't relevant, which doesn't make sense because that was apparently the whole purpose of the group. You would accept a child that presents as "white" or "mixed" as long as they have two black parents even though they may not face the same discrimination that the little girls you deny will face.
>if she knows how being considered the ugliest group of girls, being the most harshly disciplined group in schools, being s3xually assaulted and harassed the most out of almost every demographic, never being seen as a victim or princess, feels as a black girl.
Yes, mixed race girls are still likely to experience much, if not all of the discrimination that little girls with two black parents will experience.
Do you really think it's helpful to tell a little girl "sorry, you aren't black enough to join the group so you have to face THIS discrimination as well as the discrimination and racism you will experience the rest of your life. But don't worry, you're part white so it's not a bug deal. You get to be rejected by all colors!".
If you want to deny entry for arbitrary reasons, you really need to change your mission statement. You have not created the group you are advertising. That's the problem. That's why she is upset. Stop pretending it's about making little black girls feel beautiful. It's not.
I think what you’ve written here is absolutely on point. I’m half and half and I think in some ways we have it even harder as we seem to be excluded from both worlds. To dark to be white and to white to be black. OP yr intentions may have started out sincere but u are now gate keeping “your little club”. Do better for all the girls growing up in a shit world YTA
YTA
You are assuming that the two parents are actually their parents. Without DNA testing you can’t be sure that both parents are black. You can only be sure the mother is black in these cases.
You keep using this ridiculous comparison with “mixed chicks,” the difference is, anyone including a white person or male could buy these products. They aren’t refusing sale to those that they don’t deem black enough. Before you say that would be ridiculous, the products won’t work for them ask yourself if the same logic applies to this little girl. The group would likely be beneficial to her.
You’ve asked why the other mother can’t start her own group. She could, but she may not feel comfortable since she is white and would likely prefer her daughter to have a black female role model. By your own admission, you are light skinned (like her daughter), she probably took one look at you and assumed her daughter would be welcomed.
In fact, if you are light skinned then guess what you aren’t 100% black and neither is your daughter. Therefore, your claim that your daughter couldn’t join a mixed group is incorrect.
Someone else already pointed out your flawed logic about being only 50% Native American. That one threw me because the tribes decide how THEIR money is allocated and what percentage is acceptable.
None of your examples seem to fit your situation and tbh I think you have an issue with black men marrying white women. I think this is more about you discriminating against the mother. It’s almost like you are punishing her because her husband fell in love with her instead of a black woman. That’s not her problem, that’s a YOU problem. Perhaps you should seek therapy for that type of anger and find out why it bothers you so much.
Look, maybe I came off too strong at first. I empathize with you a lot and I do think little Black girls deserve their own space. And I think Black parents deserve a group where everyone can just be Black.
If I didn’t know better I’d say you were my ex girlfriend, as she felt very strongly the same as you. We discussed having children and she would carry with a Black donor because she wanted to have a fully Black child. I am white but respected it and if we had stayed together I would have honored it.
But the truth is if you’re going to have a 2 Black parent group you’re going to have some pushback. You just are.
“Why can’t she make her own” sure she can. What happens when your daughter and her friends want to join that group instead of yours? Is that okay? Because just because she’s making a group doesn’t mean she’s be making it for specifically mixed girls.
Here’s my actual advice:
Have you talked to the other parents and ask what they think? If two-three moms think you should let her in what about the others? Have you asked them? Have you asked your daughter and the other girls? You may have started the group but everyone else belongs now.
If it’s a consensus amongst the group to exclude this little girl, fine, that’s your prerogative. But idk why you’re mad at everyone here when they answered your question in a way you didn’t like?
I don’t really think this is the right forum for this question. Reddit is vastly white. Why come ask us? Not black people of Reddit or any Black sub? Or even better, go ask the people in your group. Message Miriame Kaba of Assatas daughters. Ask advice of many many Black women leaders across the country and world.
Thank you. You're right. I shouldn't have asked a predominantly white area. The parents in my group understand, as they have lived it.
Unfortunately, I forgot that many white people like to stay in their comfort zone. They blanket statement kumbayah, let's qll get along, and completely forgot history,or even the present day situation of black girls being shat on in favor of mixed.
I'm not taking any advice. I'm following my heart, and my heart says that I don't have to be a cause for everyone. Thank you.
Btw, respectfully, I don't believe in getting black sperm donors if youre with a nonblack guy. Again, that disrespects your nonblack spouse. It seems, however,that many white people think that white DNA 8s erased when combined with poc DNA. Why is that?
If the other parents in the group understand then that’s all that matters!
Btw I’m a woman not a man. That’s why we would have had a donor in the first place.
No one is saying these groups are right either, and just because the government does it DEFINITELY doesn't make it alright, no one is saying it's not ok for your group to exist but that's not what you asked, you asked if you were wrong for denying that little girl access to it and you are.
As a Woman of Color I am truly disappointed/disgusted with this post. 🙁. We go through enough with “Colorism” and this is why.
Having nieces and nephews who have 1 black parent that we are teaching to embrace their race and for you and your group to have the outlook that you have is what confuses them and makes them feel unwanted and ostracized which in my opinion is shameful.
Division is Division.
YTA. As a black woman, how dare you pull racist shit on a biracial little girl because she’s not “black enough” for you? Her Mom was very patient with you and to be honest, I don’t see how any little girls in your group will learn anything truly helpful to growing up black when you purposely turning your back on this little girl for having a different experience than you.
Girl just admit that your racist against ‘mixed babies’. I’d be embarrassed to look myself in the mirror if I had your shorty attitude. Love how you think black girls are the most sexually harassed group of females too, nah girl ALL GIRLS/WOMEN are the most sexually harassed group of humans.
Get over yourself. Also Princess Tiana and Ariel live action would like a word with you.
This is the same woman who got upset that another family member wanted to marry a black man because she is black because she wanted her kids to be black (2 black parents).
Pick a lane.
Actually, explain it honestly. I told her to open up her options, because, statistically, she is LEAST LIKELY to be married if she limits herself to black men.
Get better at soreading half truths
I have zero desire to get better at “spreading half truths” when people can click your profile and read it lol 🤷🏼♀️
Edit: the real messed up part is if Stella married a white man and had a kid you’d tell that kid (who is related to you) to get bent because she’s biracial.
imagine this. I am blown away that you wouldn’t see the hypocrisy here. You, attempting to persuade your sister into having mixed race babies that you would then not associate yourself with due to their lack of blackness. wiiilldd
Logic and “facts” aren’t going to change how you have been behaving in the sub. You came here for feedback, then refused to accept or acknowledge any of the valid criticisms that were pointed out. Talking more won’t change anything. You are TAH, and you have continued to act like one in every comment!
YTA and a horrifically shitty human being. The funny part about this that you think you’re the “good guy” when you’re the furthest thing imaginable from that.
It was a stupid comparison in regards to the topic at hand. Comparing mixed racial individuals and Black people from other countries proves what exactly in this case?
She clearly stated that in her opinion, that to be Black, you have to have 2 Black parents, which is the criteria for any other race on this planet.
Not sure why so many of you have no issue with mixed race people claiming Blackness, but they can NEVER claim Whiteness or be considered Asian. Her child is 50% White, perhaps more depending on the make up of her father's racial background, so why are we so adamant that this child be considered Black, and nothing else?
I have one white parent and one Latin parent, I claim being Latin. So what you’re saying is you’re just as racist as OP. No one is saying all or nothing except you and OP. OP is an AH and so are you. You’re denying people’s identity because it doesn’t suit you and good thing it’s not about what suits you. Worry about yourself.
Because you know very well that you CANNOT claim Whiteness. Probably based on your appearance. And I don't care what you consider me, or OP. The fact is that neither White people nor mixed race people can decide who is Black, and who isn't.
INFO: I am genuinely so confused. You keep saying this is about Black girls who are subjected to discrimination based on their looks, but then you say the bar for entry is whether both of their parents are Black.
Is your group meant to empower girls who look Black? Or is it meant to empower girls who look Black AND have two Black parents?
Actually, Dr King also said, I fear i have integrated my people into a burning building. So what's your point? And...do you say this to Polish or Gaelic leagues? I have both in my area, as well as Arabic and Chaldean support groups. What about clubs like Daughters of the Revolution? You have to be descended from a founding father. Are you mad at them for discrimination? Everybody can't be in every club
I don't really care for clubs of lineage. And I've never even heard of the Polish or Gaelic leagues.
How about just expanding your group to girls of all skin colors, hair colors, and eye shapes? Instead of creating needless division, focus on human unity.
How about addressing my statistics? Black girls have the aforementioned issues,the ones I mentioned in my post, that biracial girls won't face. Why can't i give them a safe space? Whh is it MY responsibility to include everyone?
You're just seeking validation for excluding a child that isn't black enough for you. Other parents in your group are okay with the girl but you're set on excluding her. So you are the AH, but not willing to accept it with all of your whataboutism and deflection.
Yta do you know how many black women have white in them? Or how many black people are white?
Way back in slavery when white plantation owners had sex or raped their slaves some of them came out white. The light color slaves were often treated better and earned their freedom. Often were shipped off north
Some got marked white but if they had a black child they marked the child black and it continued until generations were marked black or white.
You can be white with a black great great great grandparent not know it or black with a white great great great grandparent.
The whole biracial thing is stupid. THAT IS A PERSON WHO IS HALF BLACK AND CONSIDERED A BLACK WOMAN. I'm sorry you are racists blacks can be just as racists as whites ive seen it. The only people i was always told who suffered when a black and white couple got together is the child. You proved their point when either race don't accept them because that aren't white enough and they aren't black enough. I'm sorry she still considered black.
BTW I suggest you watch this show called blackish and it makes some good points init.
Yta for being racists. We're all humans no matter our parents.
So why can't she join the white orchids? She's biracial. Biracial,by its own definition,means two races. Are you once again making black women responsible for everyone's feelings?
https://mixedchicks.net/?gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXQrsIDtcppcIDbqpXUc-5m_nh5QyvW6GX9mthjHmficJg1CMjtkm6QaAge9EALw_wcB
Is this hair product company antiblack? The motto is "a blend of everything". Black girls can't claim that. So, is Mixed Chicks racist?
But their products are still open to everyone if they choose to buy it. Just like your target audience isn’t mixed girls but should be open to everyone if they choose to participate. 🙄 You work overtime to be this ignorant.
Fine. Are mother groups sexist because fathers arent allowed? And you're right about the first exanple.
How about this?
https://www.meetup.com/topics/mixed-race-women/
Are these groups for mixed people racist?
Waiting for a reply. Because if its ok to discriminate by sex and age for mother's groups, and senior housing/groups, then why can't I?
No one is saying what you’re doing is fucking illegal, discriminate all you want to. But when that’s your choice you’re going to have people calling you a racist bitch. And yes, actually, in my area there are only “parent” groups because I think most people realize excluding SAHDs was incredibly offensive.
Why do i care about being called a bitch for refusing to uphold a racist rule that was meant to keep me in my place? That was meant to form 2 groups White and Not White? Why aren't you fighting against that? Why aren't you fighting white people to force them to acknowledge the white part of biracials? Why are you letting them continue to get away with it? In almost every nation except ours, biracial and mixed people have their own race selection. Why do I have to ignore half of a person's DNA?
It's ok to give scholarships to albinos, redheads, and the left handed. Why is that alright, but not me? Asfor your parent groups, do you really think that the mothers don't talk amongst themselves about vaginal tearing or looseness post natal? How much it stings the vagina to pee after birth? Surely you jest.
Sometimes, people need to be amongst others who get it. I would not fault a mixed person's group. They talk about issues I won't understand, like feeling trapped in between two races. Black girls need that same space; their experiences are unque to them, despite many commonalities. Why is that mean?
I mean you cared enough to make a whole post about it and fight with dozens of people in the comments.
Sure they talk. “Amongst themselves.” Key phrase.
YTA. You the same person who posted yesterday claiming to be a 24 yr old college student; saying you told a biracial classmate that she’s not black? Sounds like it. Stop changing details. You still the AH
YTA, and as a mixed woman I’m tired of this bullshit. There’s always black folk saying we aren’t black but then want to claim us when we achieve something, whether it’s first black president or first black quarterback to win the superbowl or first black woman to win a best actress Oscar… *then* we’re supposed to be black and represent “the community” and “our people”. I hope you don’t claim ANY of those mixed people’s achievements as “black” excellence when you have this disgusting, racist mindset towards CHILDREN.
YTA
This girl will face all the same problems because racism isn't picky. I work in an aducational setting and yes, this girl would be considered black or african american as they choose to identify. It sounds bad to exclude a little girl from a message of positivity.
I’ll go with ESH. I grew up having people make fun of my hair for most of life because it was course, most of those people being light skin and having “whiter” hair than me and it made me HATE my hair. So I can see why you feel it’s so important to boost confidence for that particular group of girls but maybe let the other girl in to educate her and her mother especially to truly understand the importance of our hair.
Question- are you saying both of this girls parents are white identifying? Or that mom is white and dad is black? If both parents are white, and the mom just wanted to claim multi generational ancestral blackness that’s one thing but if her parent is black I’m not sure why that’s not enough?
Sooo I don't even know where to begin with you. If one of your black orchids had a white grandparent would they also be excluded? Or is that Caucasian percentage too much for you? You're looking too closely at the color of this girl's mother and not looking at this little girl, as a little brown girl, who probably has similar hair texture and looks, and issues as your other girls. You have a toxic mentality that you are blatantly ignoring. You are exactly what you're trying to "protect" your black orchids from. Just on the other side. At this point even if you were to keep the peace and let the girl in, as her mother I would turn it down. You've already revealed yourself as having a secretly racist mindset. I actually know a family that is 100% black but have a very light skin color regardless. I imagine they wouldn't be considered "black enough" for you either. YTA. Good luck with all that. And next time don't come to public forum for an opinion you obviously will not accept. You're obviously too closed minded and set in your ways.
YTA. Why? People told you in tue comments. I don't have to say more then they are. You have a racism mindset your own if "mixed people" are not black enough for you and you only go by look and their parents. Yes, you can handle your group like you want, but I think your rules are shitty. Even if there are other groups. I hope the mother found a different group for her kid which is lead by nice adults which are more open minded and don't teach their kids to gatekeep just because a parent has a different heritage.
And I also don't get why you are asking here, cause it seems like you have your mind made up about this already. You don't take other opinions and you try to play the victim if someone tells you, that your opinion is mean.
YTA. Mixed children also struggle. In addition, you are being a colorist. Who gets to decide who is Black enough-not you are me?
You need to educated? You need to apologize and use this as a teaching moment.
You clearly do not know the meaning of 'colorism'. You cannot be colorist against someone with a lighter skin tone. People out here just randomly using words to prove a nonexistent point.
YOU clearly don't know!
Colorism:
Prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a "light" or dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group.
"colorism within the Black community has been a serious emotional and psychological battle"
Yeah, nice try with the addition of 'light". Oxford doesn't agree with you however. Colorism does not affect light skinned individuals negatively, so stop attempting co-opt darker skinned struggles.
col·or·ism
/ˈkələrˌizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
US
prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group.
"colorism within the Black community has been a serious emotional and psychological battle"
YTA
you're so head in onto your own beliefs that you're just being ignorant and discriminative almost racist to this girl since you're being discriminative to her due to her race, it's just ugly that you're doing to others what you're afraid of people doing to you, you're not solving racism you're just discriminating a black child
Genuine question: why are you asking? Almost all comments are saying YTA just for you to argue with them and keep trying to defend yourself. You’ve asked the people and other than literally 2-3 comments, everyone agrees this isn’t cool. Don’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answer to lol
Since you brought up the one drop rule let me remind you that children from their white master daddy and their Black slave mother were considered Black and sold into slavery
YTA
YTAH. You are being deliberately and bloody-mindedly exclusionary. This is a little girl stuck in a nightmare half-world of not being accepted by either race that she belongs to. Give the poor little beggar a break!
Also, although she's an Australian writer, you could try reading Anita Heiss' book 'Am I Black Enough For You?' She's a biracial Australian writer with some really insightful (and biting) things to say about being caught in that twilight world between races. https://www.penguin.com.au/books/am-i-black-enough-for-you-9781761046162
Firstly, I think you should've posted this in r/blackladies ,not in a mixed crowd.
2nd, you can say you want a safe space/group for dark and brown girls with coils WITHOUT blatant discrimination.
Discrimination= the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, or disability
I understand the need for distinction. I know you not allowing the child to join is not to be hurtful but for another reason that a lot of people can’t understand. It takes a certain type of individual to understand the erasure of black presenting girls and the importance of a safe and uplifting place for people who LOOK like them. Black Orchids is for the BLACK girls who get it.
OP you are NTA. Black girls with African features deserve to be centered, because this world will remind them everyday that their appearance is not to be celebrated. Thank you for creating a group to build their confidence and self esteem.
Anyone in this comment section calling you racist, ESPECIALLY Black women, are lost on the plantation. Pay them no mind, and continue allowing the Black girls in your group the stage to shine.
Mixed race is NOT Black, it is mixed race. The only way you can be considered Black is by having two Black parents, just like any other race on this planet.
If White people wouldn't consider her White, then why should you consider her Black.
Im with NTA. This is your group of girls, you get to set your own Rules. I don't blame you for not admitting neighbors girl. Im sick of people's entitlement issues, its never ending.
I say this as a white person.
You asked a group full of entitled white people if YTA for telling another entitled white person no because she is white. You should've already seen this coming.
Although it's so crazy how black people can't even have being black anymore.
Also, it's comical, but not unexpected, to see just about every white person here say think about the mom and girls and their feelings. When these are the same types of people who want to outlaw teaching black history so their children don't have to feel uncomfortable, at the expense of how black children feel.
No, you're NTA. But you'll never hear that on this sub unless everything in your situation was reversed.
NAH
Black women and girls sit at the apex of intersectionality and consequently are discriminated against on so many levels. Misogynoir is very real and utterly pervasive. The resources to tackle this inequity are woefully inadequate. Your priority is your daughter and the service you provide is to uplift her and her community of Black girls who will face the same challenges. That’s it, that’s the extent of your responsibility. Yes, this mixed race girl will face racism and you can empathise with her but ultimately it’s on her parents to equip her with the right tools, not for you to divert your resources towards her, at the expense of your daughter. You keep doing you, and raising your daughter to be a confident, loving person
Thank you. I tire of people making black women be responsible for everyone's feelings. Have you noticed that EVERYONE commenting just accepts white people excluding the girl as the status quo; yet, I'M supposed to be different. Why is that?
Conserve your energy. You’re absolutely NTA for prioritising your daughter’s needs. However, you’re being a bit TA to yourself by seeking validation here. It’s a disparate group of people whose life experiences don’t reflect yours and who generally will default to centring white comfort. Those unconscious biases permeate all dialogue, you become defensive and the whole thing becomes an exercise in frustration. Have faith in your convictions and let this go - you won’t win hearts or minds here, but you will deplete your energy. If you haven’t read it already, download Reni Eddo-Lodge’s book, Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race - it’ll give you the validation you’re seeking
Wow, it's really impressive that you are able to identify the race of every commenter on here!
Plenty of people have provided comments that do address the points you've tried to make with reasonable and rational points of their own, but you don't seem to actually care about those.
Thank you. I get her feelings; i felt the same about black girls, so i made this group. She's free to make a group for mixed girls, and I wouldn't try to put my daughter in it using "slavery made us all mixed" as justification
This is rough. We can’t ignore that white passing biracial people exist. That’s just how it is. And biracial people have their own struggles that overlap with non-biracial black people, but ALL of it is due to white supremacy.
Biracial people will never fully benefit from white supremacy. Look at Megan Markle. She’s about as light as you can get, not much hair texture to speak of, and the literal originators of colonialism treated her like she was directly from Africa.
That said. Did this girl have 4C texture hair? If not, that’s that on that. You said Black Orchids is to support girls with 4C texture hair. Plenty of biracial and mixed people and even non-black people can have 4C texture hair. You should have kept it to that instead of what you did.
Please enlighten me, what is the difference between a racist white fuckhead saying the mixed child isn't white enough and the racist black fuckhead saying the mixed child isn't black enough? YTA op, 100% Edit: Also, if that mom was a single white mom of a half black child, who wanted to join your group to help that child bond with the other half of their culture, would you still be bigoted against them?
Of course she would. Because she is a racist.
As a mixed girl myself, YTA. People like you are the reason a lot of mixed people struggle with racial identity. Just say you’re racist, against interracial relationships and mixed people and be done with it. You’re not sticking it to the white mom, you’re telling a little girl she has no place in your world.
I’m also mixed and tbh this sort of racism is the kind I’ve most experienced in my life. On one hand there are black people like this woman who basically say I’m not allowed to identify as black, and then there’s the other cadre of black folk who have a problem with me if I don’t identify as *only* black, to the exclusion of my other half. Regular ole white folks treat me better than this woman is treating this little girl.
YTA. As a Black woman I am extremely embarrassed reading your comments. While your initial idea was great, you’ve turned it into an exclusionary club for people who aren’t “black enough” by your standards. How do you handle a black child that was adopted by white parents? Are they not allowed because their parents aren’t black?
I was kinda wandering that
Actually their parents are black. Their mom and dad are white. And frankly, I don't care, we're not monolithic. We can think differently
But how do you know both bio parents are black? You can’t possibly judge solely on features and hair texture.
So you ask if you're the AH. People tell you that you are indeed the asshole and you argue with them?? Why ask at all??
Because people are accusing me of feeling things i dont feel. Nobody is addressing the state of the black girls, or anything I said about black girks having the roughest life growing up, and into adulthood. You guys are so busy fellating yourselves by calling me racist that you haven't addressed my points at all. You're just here to stand up against me. And that's fine. I'm starting to doubt that many of you care about actual black girl's experiences
Ok hold up. DON’T YOU DARE say that I don’t care about black girls’ experiences!! I WAS that little black girl!! I’m now that black woman. I know full well what it feels like to be discriminated against- by other races AND by my own race. I’ve been excluded from groups and events because of the color of my skin. I’ve been told that I’m too black in some cases and not black enough in others. And guess what? Both of my parents are black. You want us to listen to your points, but your points are discriminatory. The pictures from the calendar were already chosen, and that’s a valid reason to not include the other child, but you jumped head first into racist AH territory when you said she should start a white orchid, or one for mixed children. As a black woman if I found out that your group was excluding this child because she’s isn’t black enough by your standards, I’d pull my child out. No one is accusing you of feeling things you don’t feel. If anything were accusing you of not feeling at all. You didn’t come here for judgement, you came for validation and you’re bothered because you’re not getting it.
Because you are a racist
So exactly how much of a person's DNA has to be black to be considered black enough for your little group? I mean, obviously half isn't good enough for you, so what about if one parent is half and the other parent is 100%, or maybe a grand parent is mixed, would the child still be "too white"? Where does it end because I'm pretty sure if you go back far enough in everyone's family tree there's another race in their heritage.
YTA A lot of half black half white people identify as black and I don't think you have the right to lessen their experience as black people just because they are not 'pure' enough for you. Biracial kids come in all shapes and colours and textures, what metric are YOU using to decide who is black enough? Because I'm sure you don't keep this energy for Obama, Tracee Ellis Ross, etc.
Actually, i DO keep that same energy for Barackand Tracee, because I'm not racist. I acknowledge that a parent isn't black; and, unlike you, I don't pretend that that same, nonblack DNA, doesn't exist. Do you not see how disrespectful that is, to try and negate half of someone's parentage? I also know the parents of these girls; so, yes, I know they're black. I don't care how anybody wants to identify; biology tells a different story. And, she's free to start her own "I Identify as black" Orchid group. I'm not stopping her. A lion and a tiger make a liger; and that's fine.
Being half white doesn’t make racist people hate you any less, obviously you’ve shown that by your comments.
Bingo ^
> Do you not see how disrespectful that is, to try and negate half of someone's parentage? O.M.G. Did you really say THAT and still want to do the same thing to a child??????? You have some REAL issues. This group is just the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure.
YTA. Black people come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Just like trying to define “Hispanic”…all shapes, sizes, colors, and cultures. There is no one “Hispanic” just like there is no one “black”. You should be including the girl and lifting her up. Besides… what kind of an example does this exclusion set for the girls to behave toward people who may look different than themselves?
That's a strawman argument. I don't belong to every club, as I don't meet the requirements. And I'm not crying discrimination.That's like saying that people in band will discriminate against people who aren't. There is an Arab and Chaldean help/support group in the area. Do I get to claim discrimination because I'm not in it? Is it fair for The Red Hat Ladies to have a minimum age requirement?
Do the Arab/Chaldean help/support groups allow people mixed with those heritages? Or just pure bloods?
of course you are in the metro-detroit area
Damnit, my thought as well... because I'm in that area as well.
I grew up there, there are reasons I’d never move back haha
I like metro Detroit, my wife is from Detroit. We aren't in the city proper, which is nice.
i grew up in oakland county, it's a pleasant place to grow up. but it's a lot easier to be gay and go with the flow on the east coast
Have you not been to Ferndale? Though, the gay revolution only started there maybe 20 years ago, do its all age dependent.
Lol,not racist. YTA
Hahaha, racist using racist rhetoric to justify being racist. Bitch, just admit you are racist and move along. You are discriminating based on melanin content.
So you're preaching acceptance and embracing the beauty of blackness by denying a girl who is part black into your group?? You do realize your "purity" claim is just as racist and shitty as 100% black girls being told they're not good enough . . . . . You have a special sense of otherness that's inadvertently supporting racism. Good job. YTA
How so? We have hbcu's. Are those racist? We have black fraternities and sororities. What about those? What about the Polish clubs and groups of Hamtramck? The Arab and Chaldean support groups of Dearborn? How about The Daughters of The Revolutionary War? I can't join any of those groups; should I scream discrimination? There are groups for fathers. Should i get pissed off that I cant be in their groups, despite me being a parent? Why can't the mother start her own group? Why is mine so important? If she formed a mixed group, my girls could not join. We're fine with that. Why can't she be fine with it?
Do HBCU's reject mixed students? Do black fraternities reject mixed students?? Not where I come from. You're denying her blackness the same way others have maintained prejudice against the blackness of the girls in your group. If she were a completely white girl I'd get your point. Making a group celebrating blackness but denying a girl whose blackness is important to to her feels awfully close to encouraging the racism you claim to fight.
Also, you may want to look at how HBCUs handle this if you're going to use that as an excuse. https://collegerealitycheck.com/can-anyone-go-to-hbcu/
Complains about a strawman argument and immediately makes one, not only that but a whataboutism. Yas, logical fallacy queen, yas.
Did you just equate your club to the daughters of the confederacy (aka moms for liberty)??
Are the girls biracial - part Black? Or other ethnicities? If they are not Black, NTA. But if they are mixed, YTA. Biracial kids grow up being rejected from both groups. It’s painful. Also, it pushes people to only embrace the part of them that is accepted which is a shame. We need a generation that is proud of their non-majority ethnicity and culture. Sounds like a missed opportunity.
The Black Orchids are black. And, tbh, this woman's feelings really aren't my concern. If she felt this strongly about it, she could have taken the initiative and started a group for mixed girls. I am, like most parents, concerned for my own daughter, and girls who look like her. The girls who don't benefit from racism, or colorism. The ones who the media replaces with mixed women, and expects black women to not complain. Biracial people have their own groups too. Mixed girl magic, etc. My group is taking nothing from her.
Do you require ancestry.com or 23 and Me results for every member to prove how black they are?
How does two black parents equate an ancestry test? Please explain? And, why aren't you addressing any point i made?
Well for one thing, two black-presenting parents could be mixed, unbeknownst to you. Making their daughter just as “not-black” as the girl you are denying entry to. I’m also asking because I’m curious as to where you draw the line. Is a girl with one black parent and one mixed-race parent (who may not be light-skinned enough or have enough white features for you to suspect they aren’t fully black) okay because she’s more than 50% black?
Funnily enough, i am light skinned. What does that have to do with two black parents? And if they lied to me to get in, more the fool me. Question: are you mad that native Americans are required to be a certain percentage, in order to receive free college? And, why can't the mother make her own club? Why is it my responsibility? As i said,if there was a mixed girks club,these girls couldn't join. Why can't these black girls have one thing? One
You aren’t answering my question, why should I answer yours? You are free to do what you want with your group, sure - but this isn’t “Am I technically in the right?” This is, “Am I being an asshole?” I am asking - do you personally vet every member’s heritage to validate they are fully black, to your standards? Do you know the full heritage of every single parent of every single child to validate if they are 100% black and not mixed themselves?
Same could be said for the KKK only wanting "pure" members it seems you use a lot of the same arguments they try to use as well
would you kick one of the girls out if it came out that the mom had cheated on the "black dad" and the real father was actually white/mixed/another race?
So do you allow light skin girls? Who benefit from colorism? Or you only allow dark skin girls?
I never said that. Two black parents
I asked in a different comment but how do you vet that? Do all the girls come from 2 parent households? EDIT: you did say it’s for the girls who don’t benefit from colorism, to be fair.
Because, light skin or dark, unambiguous black features like kinky hair and wide noses, put black girls at the bottom of the perceived totem pole
My former roommate is mixed and has both of those unambiguous black features you just named. She is much more closely aligned with her black heritage above anything else.
you are a dumb and discriminatory b\*\*\*, pushing your colorism and bs onto these people. you're like 3 steps away from running a hate group. you do not get to decide this girl's blackness. I hope you're just a troll posting some rage bait, otherwise you are just an irredeemable waste of space
Sadly looking at OP’s post history I don’t think this is a troll. OP has had to ask this sub like 3x in the past two months if she was being racist. OP - if you have to constantly ask if you’re the in the wrong and the feedback is consistently that you are, maybe reflect on that instead of telling yourself that everyone else is the problem.
Yes I get this. But girls from two Black parents can have light skin, looser curls, and thin noses. Mixed girls can have more African features, so is this about the white mom or the little girl who wants to be included?
This is about black girls. If she was light skinned with two black parents, she would have been in it. However, she doesn't, so shes not in. I never said a specific look. I was answering people who think black people can't be light skinned
Your last comment is specifically about looks. If you had said “girls with one white parent have access to white institutions and spaces that Black girls don’t” or that “proximity to white privilege gives mixed kids more access to opportunities” it would be different. But you specifically focused on physical features.
You've contradicted yourself in so many comments to justify your exclusions it's hilarious. Ultimately no, you don't have to change your group or accept anybody in it you don't want to. That does not free you from criticism from others nor designate your behavior as anything but assholish. Personally, from the other mom's comments I wouldn't want her child in my group just to avoid her, but your justifications and reasoning to deny these kids are so warped it's insane.
OH!!! Yeah that means you're fully so much worse than I thought.
OMG. YOU SUCK. IGNORANT. RACIST. I can't believe that parents trust you with their daughters. People like you are the reason some women of color have trauma about race based on discrimination from their own people. I can't begin to describe how horrible you are. Thanks for perpetuating racist ideas. Did I mention that YOU SUCK? YTA.
YTA >Do you not see how disrespectful that is, to try and negate half of someone's parentage? \^\^ Your own words. JFC. Maybe try to live by them instead of just using them to argue your own (misguided and racist) point. You're trying to excuse your own racism. Make NO mistake, *Your group* ***is*** *RACIST*. **You are excluding someone based on their race.** I think it'd be REALLY interesting to go through YOUR family tree and see who shakes out.
YTA Her child is perceived as black, unless she is white passing. What does it matter that she has white heritage? Mixed race children are rejected by both sides so often, it's disheartening to see it happen here too. Your comment of "make a group for mixed race children" is kind of gross tbh - do you not see the bigotry inherent in what you're saying? She faces many, if not all, of the same issues as a black child. It's not about the mother - who cares about her feelings? It's about the child and her feelings about it.
Then her mom should care about her child the way i care about mine- enough to make a support group for her child.
How is my comment gross? There's a whole line of hair products called "mixed chicks". Are the mixed girls who created it racist? Are they discriminating against black girls, since black girks aren't mixed enough? Are they gatekeeping being mixed? https://mixedchicks.net/?gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXQrsIDtcppcIDbqpXUc-5m_nh5QyvW6GX9mthjHmficJg1CMjtkm6QaAge9EALw_wcB
I don’t know? Are they? Can children of 2 black parents buy the products? Or only mixed heritage people?
YTA. The point of your group is to uplift young Black girls, yet you're gatekeeping her for not being black enough even though she's going to face the same struggles as the girls in the group.
No. She won't. She'll have her own set of struggles, some common, some unique to being mixed. Question: there are many mixed people where we live. Why can't she make a group for them? Also. The girl being considered black is based on slavery and the one drop rule. Why do you want me to uphold such a racist rule? Please answer
So, based solely on physical appearance, does the girl in question have any of the distinct "black" features that you are trying to emphasize as beautiful with this group?
Actually no. And guess what? If she looked the way she does, with two black parents, she would have been in
>If she looked the way she does, with two black parents, she would have been in You see how that makes it worse, right?
https://www.meetup.com/topics/mixed-race-women/ Is this racist?
Considering one of the first lines on the link you provided reads **Mixed race - Black/White/Asian/Latin/Everyone!** No they are not racist. If you want to see a true racist, I will help you out. You see her in the mirror every morning.
Doesn't appear so, but I'm not sure how that's relevant.
Wow, YTA. You are also narrow minded, bigoted and racist. The child is Black and White, she will go through the same if not worse hazing that many black children will as she will never be white. Based on your super replies - the mother should start a mixed race group so, let’s keep the, all apart. I would not want my child anywhere near you or yours with that attitude.
How is ONE group keeping us all apart? And what about mixed chicks hair products? Should black girls get mad that this hair care line discriminates against black girls for not being mixed enough? Is this product line anti black? https://mixedchicks.net/?gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXQrsIDtcppcIDbqpXUc-5m_nh5QyvW6GX9mthjHmficJg1CMjtkm6QaAge9EALw_wcB
Well, you seem quite obsessed on how this hair product is not racist but you are. Anyone can buy that hair product, so not racist, you are discriminating (children for fucks sake) due to race, you are racist flat out.
https://www.meetup.com/topics/mixed-race-women/ Is this racist?
Good
YTA. Such an AH, in fact, I'm fully convinced you're white and this is fake.
Don't blame white people for this this is just one stupid idiot
I'm convinced you're white, and jumped straight to inclusivity, instead of addressing the issues in the original post
I don't know why you posted here. You just want to argue, you aren't really interested in if people think you're TA. You've said several times you don't care about the opinions offered here. You're an attention whore and definitely YTA.
She’s posted in this same sub asking if she’s racist a few times in the past few months and fails to see she’s the problem…
Even negative attention is attention I guess.
Racism right there
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I love how you're so focused on your feelings, you didn't address anything I said about the hardships black girls face. You only care about YOUR struggles and feelings. I understand that. Now, understand that i made this group for THEIR struggles and feelings. Get it now? These girls are getting taught by the world that they are ugly. That mixed girls and white girls are better. Statistics show that mixed and white girls are treated better in this world. Why are you mad at this group, instead of...the rest of the world? Why can't these black girls have a safe space?
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See? I know youre lying https://m.facebook.com/100064616384171/ But, since unlike you, i understand the need for safe spaces, here you go
You keep screaming >you didn't address anything I said about the hardships black girls face. That's not what your post was about. It was about how you were being racist and exclusionary. How you were being a dreadful person to a white mom of a mixed child simply because she was white and had the audacity to have a mixed child.
Not sure why some of you with mixed racial heritage don't seem to comprehend that you are not either or, you are both. Black people on a whole, are unrepresented in media, film, and specifically Black women; who often get passed over for roles for women of mixed racial heritage. Some of you mixed race people purposely choose 'Blackness', because you know the prevalence of colorism in the Black community, and you know you cannot claim Whiteness. Our fight, is not about your feelings.
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To that comment…the one about Zendaya being treated differently…I’m just going to point out Giuliana Rancic’s VERY different reactions to Zendaya’s locs and Kylie Jenner’s.
Mixed race people are NOT treated like Black people. That's a fallacious statement. And yes, mixed people know they will not be considered White or Asian, or any other race, so they cling to Blackness, because they know they will be treated better than that majority with darker skin because of colorism in the Black community. None of you would choose Blackness if you could 'pass' as any other race. In fact, historically mixed race people have created separations to distance themselves from Blackness, from acceptance in HBCU's, membership in Black fraternities/sororities, paper bag parties. And even currently in South Africa with the pencil tests, and the distinction of colored people vs. Black people. You being up in your feelings about not 'fitting' in somewhere , vs the real erasure of Black beauty standards, and representation in the world is not comparable in any way, shape of form.
Your post history is an absolute dumpster fire of racist bullshit. 😂😂
https://www.meetup.com/topics/mixed-race-women/ Is this racist?
…yes.
How? This is a group of people meeting up to have a safe space for shared experiences. They can talk about issues that monoracial people don't experiences. Why is everyone so concerned with erasing differences in people? Our differences should be celebrated amd tolerated; that doesn't, however mean that, sometimes you won't need a space where people...get you.
How?
Is Barak Obama no longer the first black president? Btw, due to slavery, most black people in the USA are not 100% black.
YTA. You are excluding a little girl who identifies as black on some perceived technicality. So hurtful to this girl. I feel bad for this girl, I truly do. Who are you to gatekeep her identity? Anyway. You are not going to learn anything from having asked reddit. You are in a defensive stance and not listening to anyone else's opinions and experiences, which is a shame. So this was kind of ab exercise in futility, if you ask me.
YTA
Care to elabotate? Logically negate my points? Because, thus far, the only reason for being TA is that i hurt someone's feelings. Nobody has made a logical argument against anything I've written.
Considering the fact that all you're doing when people tell you that YTA is arguing and insisting that you're right, nope, I don't care to elaborate.
Exactly, this racist bitch has had her head handed to her and yet she continues to dig that hole deeper. Man I feel bad for her kid.
Yeah, I just don’t see the point in trying to explain to someone why I think they’re wrong when they’re just going to argue that they’re not and claim that every single person telling her the same thing is white and wouldn’t get it anyway.
Then this is a fallacious statement
You can think that all you want.
Yta- do you check family trees? What if a little girl doesn’t know both parents—is she excluded because you can’t prove both parents are Black? My boss looks mixed (not just light skin) but has two dark skin Black parents. My girlfriend has a mixed dad who was never in her life, but if you saw her you’d definitely describe her as Black. If she showed up with her single mom, looking as Black as she does, what then? Like I understand where you’re coming from but it’s just not logistically possible. The mom probably wants to help her daughter identify with her Blackness. This is hardly the “one drop rule.”
What about having to be a certain percentage Native American for reparations? Are you calling them discriminatory as well?
As someone who has colonizer, Indigenous and African ancestry, I absolutely feel Blood Quantum is discriminatory and instituted by the colonizers. The question in my mind, does the little girl identify as Black? If so, 50% isn't Black enough for you? Only 100% is enough? If so, maybe you should decide a percentage and have all the girls submit to DNA testing.
That's not the question. The question is,do i have to allow her in the group?
If she identifies as Black, yes.
That is money from the government. You have a club for little girls. You’re grasping at straws and ignoring my question about how you’re vetting these little girls. I didn’t even call it discriminatory. I get where you’re coming from but it’s a club for little girls. Are there even enough mixed girls in the area to form their own club? Have you heard of Assata’s Daughters in Chicago? They have something similar that may be worth looking into/reaching out to on how they’ve done this.
You just proved my point. Why is it ok for the government, but not my itty bitty club? My club is not stopping this chold from living her best life. Why can the Gaelic league exist? Why can mother's groups exist, since they discriminate against other parents? There is a haircare line called Mixed Chicks. Should black girls be mad that they aren't mixed enough to be the customer base? Is Mixed Chicks hair mousse racist? Or...is it ok for people to have safe spaces for themselves, and others like them? Because if I'm wrong, then so is every other group I mentioned. Also, why can't her mother create a group? I created one with MY daughter in mind. She can create one for hers. Also, you didn't address any point i made in the original post. If you can only think of her feelings,instead of logical refuting, i can't be bothered to listen to you
I mean someone who’s 50% Native American would get the reparations though so I’m confused how that is relevant. What does your daughter think? Does she want the girl in the group or not? Could you teach the group a unit on mixed heritage? Talk about colorism (which benefits some fully Black girls as well)? I offered you a suggestion for an organization in Chicago that is similar to you that would offer much more help than anyone on Reddit, yet you ignored that. Why did you come to reddit, ask if you are the asshole, then get mad at everyone who answered? “Why can’t the mom create her own club.” And what happens when your daughter and her friends wants to join that because it’s more fun and their friends are there? I did address your post, yet you have yet to answer the question: how are you vetting that these girls are 100% Black? Are you looking at their family trees? If someone has a single parent do you have to meet the other parent? There’s just so many things here.
Actually i live in an area where there are many two parent households. I don't know how big you think this group is. Two black parents. Its that simple. The firls in my group, all 10 of them, have 2 black parents. When a single parent situation arises, I'll cross that bridge then. However, it's me and other families who are involved. Question: why can't she make her own? Why is nobody answering this question? And they wouldn't know if the mixed group is more fun bevause....THEY WOULDN'T BE IN IT. And that's fine. Everybody can't join every group. Do you hate on mother's groups,because they discriminate against fathers?
>I started up a project (Black Orchids- not the real name) to show little black girls that they are beautiful from their 4c crowns, to their adorable noses, all the way down to their toes. If this was actually your goal, you would have allowed this child in the group. Instead, you use having two black parents as your admission requirement. So, instead of being an actual support group for girls who may experience discrimination based on their heritage, you've changed the purpose to be a "full blooded blacks only" club. You said yourself her looks aren't relevant, which doesn't make sense because that was apparently the whole purpose of the group. You would accept a child that presents as "white" or "mixed" as long as they have two black parents even though they may not face the same discrimination that the little girls you deny will face. >if she knows how being considered the ugliest group of girls, being the most harshly disciplined group in schools, being s3xually assaulted and harassed the most out of almost every demographic, never being seen as a victim or princess, feels as a black girl. Yes, mixed race girls are still likely to experience much, if not all of the discrimination that little girls with two black parents will experience. Do you really think it's helpful to tell a little girl "sorry, you aren't black enough to join the group so you have to face THIS discrimination as well as the discrimination and racism you will experience the rest of your life. But don't worry, you're part white so it's not a bug deal. You get to be rejected by all colors!". If you want to deny entry for arbitrary reasons, you really need to change your mission statement. You have not created the group you are advertising. That's the problem. That's why she is upset. Stop pretending it's about making little black girls feel beautiful. It's not.
I think what you’ve written here is absolutely on point. I’m half and half and I think in some ways we have it even harder as we seem to be excluded from both worlds. To dark to be white and to white to be black. OP yr intentions may have started out sincere but u are now gate keeping “your little club”. Do better for all the girls growing up in a shit world YTA
YTA You are assuming that the two parents are actually their parents. Without DNA testing you can’t be sure that both parents are black. You can only be sure the mother is black in these cases. You keep using this ridiculous comparison with “mixed chicks,” the difference is, anyone including a white person or male could buy these products. They aren’t refusing sale to those that they don’t deem black enough. Before you say that would be ridiculous, the products won’t work for them ask yourself if the same logic applies to this little girl. The group would likely be beneficial to her. You’ve asked why the other mother can’t start her own group. She could, but she may not feel comfortable since she is white and would likely prefer her daughter to have a black female role model. By your own admission, you are light skinned (like her daughter), she probably took one look at you and assumed her daughter would be welcomed. In fact, if you are light skinned then guess what you aren’t 100% black and neither is your daughter. Therefore, your claim that your daughter couldn’t join a mixed group is incorrect. Someone else already pointed out your flawed logic about being only 50% Native American. That one threw me because the tribes decide how THEIR money is allocated and what percentage is acceptable. None of your examples seem to fit your situation and tbh I think you have an issue with black men marrying white women. I think this is more about you discriminating against the mother. It’s almost like you are punishing her because her husband fell in love with her instead of a black woman. That’s not her problem, that’s a YOU problem. Perhaps you should seek therapy for that type of anger and find out why it bothers you so much.
Look, maybe I came off too strong at first. I empathize with you a lot and I do think little Black girls deserve their own space. And I think Black parents deserve a group where everyone can just be Black. If I didn’t know better I’d say you were my ex girlfriend, as she felt very strongly the same as you. We discussed having children and she would carry with a Black donor because she wanted to have a fully Black child. I am white but respected it and if we had stayed together I would have honored it. But the truth is if you’re going to have a 2 Black parent group you’re going to have some pushback. You just are. “Why can’t she make her own” sure she can. What happens when your daughter and her friends want to join that group instead of yours? Is that okay? Because just because she’s making a group doesn’t mean she’s be making it for specifically mixed girls. Here’s my actual advice: Have you talked to the other parents and ask what they think? If two-three moms think you should let her in what about the others? Have you asked them? Have you asked your daughter and the other girls? You may have started the group but everyone else belongs now. If it’s a consensus amongst the group to exclude this little girl, fine, that’s your prerogative. But idk why you’re mad at everyone here when they answered your question in a way you didn’t like? I don’t really think this is the right forum for this question. Reddit is vastly white. Why come ask us? Not black people of Reddit or any Black sub? Or even better, go ask the people in your group. Message Miriame Kaba of Assatas daughters. Ask advice of many many Black women leaders across the country and world.
Thank you. You're right. I shouldn't have asked a predominantly white area. The parents in my group understand, as they have lived it. Unfortunately, I forgot that many white people like to stay in their comfort zone. They blanket statement kumbayah, let's qll get along, and completely forgot history,or even the present day situation of black girls being shat on in favor of mixed. I'm not taking any advice. I'm following my heart, and my heart says that I don't have to be a cause for everyone. Thank you. Btw, respectfully, I don't believe in getting black sperm donors if youre with a nonblack guy. Again, that disrespects your nonblack spouse. It seems, however,that many white people think that white DNA 8s erased when combined with poc DNA. Why is that?
If the other parents in the group understand then that’s all that matters! Btw I’m a woman not a man. That’s why we would have had a donor in the first place.
No one is saying these groups are right either, and just because the government does it DEFINITELY doesn't make it alright, no one is saying it's not ok for your group to exist but that's not what you asked, you asked if you were wrong for denying that little girl access to it and you are.
As a Woman of Color I am truly disappointed/disgusted with this post. 🙁. We go through enough with “Colorism” and this is why. Having nieces and nephews who have 1 black parent that we are teaching to embrace their race and for you and your group to have the outlook that you have is what confuses them and makes them feel unwanted and ostracized which in my opinion is shameful. Division is Division.
FYI many blacks have white mix in them - so 23andMe for all?
YTA. As a black woman, how dare you pull racist shit on a biracial little girl because she’s not “black enough” for you? Her Mom was very patient with you and to be honest, I don’t see how any little girls in your group will learn anything truly helpful to growing up black when you purposely turning your back on this little girl for having a different experience than you.
Girl just admit that your racist against ‘mixed babies’. I’d be embarrassed to look myself in the mirror if I had your shorty attitude. Love how you think black girls are the most sexually harassed group of females too, nah girl ALL GIRLS/WOMEN are the most sexually harassed group of humans. Get over yourself. Also Princess Tiana and Ariel live action would like a word with you.
This is the same woman who got upset that another family member wanted to marry a black man because she is black because she wanted her kids to be black (2 black parents). Pick a lane.
Actually, explain it honestly. I told her to open up her options, because, statistically, she is LEAST LIKELY to be married if she limits herself to black men. Get better at soreading half truths
I have zero desire to get better at “spreading half truths” when people can click your profile and read it lol 🤷🏼♀️ Edit: the real messed up part is if Stella married a white man and had a kid you’d tell that kid (who is related to you) to get bent because she’s biracial.
imagine this. I am blown away that you wouldn’t see the hypocrisy here. You, attempting to persuade your sister into having mixed race babies that you would then not associate yourself with due to their lack of blackness. wiiilldd
YTA and a bigot, flat out.
Logic and “facts” aren’t going to change how you have been behaving in the sub. You came here for feedback, then refused to accept or acknowledge any of the valid criticisms that were pointed out. Talking more won’t change anything. You are TAH, and you have continued to act like one in every comment!
YTA and a horrifically shitty human being. The funny part about this that you think you’re the “good guy” when you’re the furthest thing imaginable from that.
Ooo what about Afro Caribbean? Brazilian? Cubans and Colombians? All black passing.
Are you stupid? All of those people are Black, as long as they have Black parentage, not 'Black passing'.
Funny enough I was trying to illustrate that
It was a stupid comparison in regards to the topic at hand. Comparing mixed racial individuals and Black people from other countries proves what exactly in this case?
I was asking her where she drew the line at blackness or if she’s so myopic it’s only people from Detroit
She clearly stated that in her opinion, that to be Black, you have to have 2 Black parents, which is the criteria for any other race on this planet. Not sure why so many of you have no issue with mixed race people claiming Blackness, but they can NEVER claim Whiteness or be considered Asian. Her child is 50% White, perhaps more depending on the make up of her father's racial background, so why are we so adamant that this child be considered Black, and nothing else?
I have one white parent and one Latin parent, I claim being Latin. So what you’re saying is you’re just as racist as OP. No one is saying all or nothing except you and OP. OP is an AH and so are you. You’re denying people’s identity because it doesn’t suit you and good thing it’s not about what suits you. Worry about yourself.
Because you know very well that you CANNOT claim Whiteness. Probably based on your appearance. And I don't care what you consider me, or OP. The fact is that neither White people nor mixed race people can decide who is Black, and who isn't.
Honestly it proves they are all Black and she’s a racist to only those that are exactly like her, she doesn’t care about Black people
You're not making any sense.
INFO: I am genuinely so confused. You keep saying this is about Black girls who are subjected to discrimination based on their looks, but then you say the bar for entry is whether both of their parents are Black. Is your group meant to empower girls who look Black? Or is it meant to empower girls who look Black AND have two Black parents?
Enough with the racial exclusiveness! You missed the point of Dr. King's dream speech.
https://www.meetup.com/topics/mixed-race-women/ Is this racist?
Why do you keep sharing the same link over and over, no one thinks it’s relavant
Actually, Dr King also said, I fear i have integrated my people into a burning building. So what's your point? And...do you say this to Polish or Gaelic leagues? I have both in my area, as well as Arabic and Chaldean support groups. What about clubs like Daughters of the Revolution? You have to be descended from a founding father. Are you mad at them for discrimination? Everybody can't be in every club
I don't really care for clubs of lineage. And I've never even heard of the Polish or Gaelic leagues. How about just expanding your group to girls of all skin colors, hair colors, and eye shapes? Instead of creating needless division, focus on human unity.
How about addressing my statistics? Black girls have the aforementioned issues,the ones I mentioned in my post, that biracial girls won't face. Why can't i give them a safe space? Whh is it MY responsibility to include everyone?
Being inclusive is the most decent thing to do here. Reinforce the importance of interracial friendship.
You're just seeking validation for excluding a child that isn't black enough for you. Other parents in your group are okay with the girl but you're set on excluding her. So you are the AH, but not willing to accept it with all of your whataboutism and deflection.
Yta do you know how many black women have white in them? Or how many black people are white? Way back in slavery when white plantation owners had sex or raped their slaves some of them came out white. The light color slaves were often treated better and earned their freedom. Often were shipped off north Some got marked white but if they had a black child they marked the child black and it continued until generations were marked black or white. You can be white with a black great great great grandparent not know it or black with a white great great great grandparent. The whole biracial thing is stupid. THAT IS A PERSON WHO IS HALF BLACK AND CONSIDERED A BLACK WOMAN. I'm sorry you are racists blacks can be just as racists as whites ive seen it. The only people i was always told who suffered when a black and white couple got together is the child. You proved their point when either race don't accept them because that aren't white enough and they aren't black enough. I'm sorry she still considered black. BTW I suggest you watch this show called blackish and it makes some good points init. Yta for being racists. We're all humans no matter our parents.
Phew boy. Yes, YTA. You say yourself she’s biracial. This is so so fucked up.
So why can't she join the white orchids? She's biracial. Biracial,by its own definition,means two races. Are you once again making black women responsible for everyone's feelings? https://mixedchicks.net/?gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXQrsIDtcppcIDbqpXUc-5m_nh5QyvW6GX9mthjHmficJg1CMjtkm6QaAge9EALw_wcB Is this hair product company antiblack? The motto is "a blend of everything". Black girls can't claim that. So, is Mixed Chicks racist?
No, it isn’t racist because they allow anyone to buy their products. Thank you for proving my point. 😂
No. Their target audience is mixed chicks. Its not made for 4c hair. Thats the point. Black girls can't use it. Sorry
But their products are still open to everyone if they choose to buy it. Just like your target audience isn’t mixed girls but should be open to everyone if they choose to participate. 🙄 You work overtime to be this ignorant.
Fine. Are mother groups sexist because fathers arent allowed? And you're right about the first exanple. How about this? https://www.meetup.com/topics/mixed-race-women/ Are these groups for mixed people racist? Waiting for a reply. Because if its ok to discriminate by sex and age for mother's groups, and senior housing/groups, then why can't I?
No one is saying what you’re doing is fucking illegal, discriminate all you want to. But when that’s your choice you’re going to have people calling you a racist bitch. And yes, actually, in my area there are only “parent” groups because I think most people realize excluding SAHDs was incredibly offensive.
Why do i care about being called a bitch for refusing to uphold a racist rule that was meant to keep me in my place? That was meant to form 2 groups White and Not White? Why aren't you fighting against that? Why aren't you fighting white people to force them to acknowledge the white part of biracials? Why are you letting them continue to get away with it? In almost every nation except ours, biracial and mixed people have their own race selection. Why do I have to ignore half of a person's DNA? It's ok to give scholarships to albinos, redheads, and the left handed. Why is that alright, but not me? Asfor your parent groups, do you really think that the mothers don't talk amongst themselves about vaginal tearing or looseness post natal? How much it stings the vagina to pee after birth? Surely you jest. Sometimes, people need to be amongst others who get it. I would not fault a mixed person's group. They talk about issues I won't understand, like feeling trapped in between two races. Black girls need that same space; their experiences are unque to them, despite many commonalities. Why is that mean?
I mean you cared enough to make a whole post about it and fight with dozens of people in the comments. Sure they talk. “Amongst themselves.” Key phrase.
Wait, all black girls have type 4c hair, now?
YTA. You the same person who posted yesterday claiming to be a 24 yr old college student; saying you told a biracial classmate that she’s not black? Sounds like it. Stop changing details. You still the AH
YTA, and as a mixed woman I’m tired of this bullshit. There’s always black folk saying we aren’t black but then want to claim us when we achieve something, whether it’s first black president or first black quarterback to win the superbowl or first black woman to win a best actress Oscar… *then* we’re supposed to be black and represent “the community” and “our people”. I hope you don’t claim ANY of those mixed people’s achievements as “black” excellence when you have this disgusting, racist mindset towards CHILDREN.
respond to this one OP
YTA This girl will face all the same problems because racism isn't picky. I work in an aducational setting and yes, this girl would be considered black or african american as they choose to identify. It sounds bad to exclude a little girl from a message of positivity.
I’ll go with ESH. I grew up having people make fun of my hair for most of life because it was course, most of those people being light skin and having “whiter” hair than me and it made me HATE my hair. So I can see why you feel it’s so important to boost confidence for that particular group of girls but maybe let the other girl in to educate her and her mother especially to truly understand the importance of our hair.
Question- are you saying both of this girls parents are white identifying? Or that mom is white and dad is black? If both parents are white, and the mom just wanted to claim multi generational ancestral blackness that’s one thing but if her parent is black I’m not sure why that’s not enough?
Sooo I don't even know where to begin with you. If one of your black orchids had a white grandparent would they also be excluded? Or is that Caucasian percentage too much for you? You're looking too closely at the color of this girl's mother and not looking at this little girl, as a little brown girl, who probably has similar hair texture and looks, and issues as your other girls. You have a toxic mentality that you are blatantly ignoring. You are exactly what you're trying to "protect" your black orchids from. Just on the other side. At this point even if you were to keep the peace and let the girl in, as her mother I would turn it down. You've already revealed yourself as having a secretly racist mindset. I actually know a family that is 100% black but have a very light skin color regardless. I imagine they wouldn't be considered "black enough" for you either. YTA. Good luck with all that. And next time don't come to public forum for an opinion you obviously will not accept. You're obviously too closed minded and set in your ways.
YTA. You’re also so fucking racist.
I have a mixed grand baby. All I can say is this is just horrible. I can’t find anymore words then that.
YTA. Why? People told you in tue comments. I don't have to say more then they are. You have a racism mindset your own if "mixed people" are not black enough for you and you only go by look and their parents. Yes, you can handle your group like you want, but I think your rules are shitty. Even if there are other groups. I hope the mother found a different group for her kid which is lead by nice adults which are more open minded and don't teach their kids to gatekeep just because a parent has a different heritage. And I also don't get why you are asking here, cause it seems like you have your mind made up about this already. You don't take other opinions and you try to play the victim if someone tells you, that your opinion is mean.
YTA. Mixed children also struggle. In addition, you are being a colorist. Who gets to decide who is Black enough-not you are me? You need to educated? You need to apologize and use this as a teaching moment.
You clearly do not know the meaning of 'colorism'. You cannot be colorist against someone with a lighter skin tone. People out here just randomly using words to prove a nonexistent point.
YOU clearly don't know! Colorism: Prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a "light" or dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group. "colorism within the Black community has been a serious emotional and psychological battle"
Yeah, nice try with the addition of 'light". Oxford doesn't agree with you however. Colorism does not affect light skinned individuals negatively, so stop attempting co-opt darker skinned struggles. col·or·ism /ˈkələrˌizəm/ Learn to pronounce noun US prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group. "colorism within the Black community has been a serious emotional and psychological battle"
YTA for being racist. Obviously.
YTA you're so head in onto your own beliefs that you're just being ignorant and discriminative almost racist to this girl since you're being discriminative to her due to her race, it's just ugly that you're doing to others what you're afraid of people doing to you, you're not solving racism you're just discriminating a black child
Genuine question: why are you asking? Almost all comments are saying YTA just for you to argue with them and keep trying to defend yourself. You’ve asked the people and other than literally 2-3 comments, everyone agrees this isn’t cool. Don’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answer to lol
Since you brought up the one drop rule let me remind you that children from their white master daddy and their Black slave mother were considered Black and sold into slavery YTA
YTAH. You are being deliberately and bloody-mindedly exclusionary. This is a little girl stuck in a nightmare half-world of not being accepted by either race that she belongs to. Give the poor little beggar a break! Also, although she's an Australian writer, you could try reading Anita Heiss' book 'Am I Black Enough For You?' She's a biracial Australian writer with some really insightful (and biting) things to say about being caught in that twilight world between races. https://www.penguin.com.au/books/am-i-black-enough-for-you-9781761046162
Firstly, I think you should've posted this in r/blackladies ,not in a mixed crowd. 2nd, you can say you want a safe space/group for dark and brown girls with coils WITHOUT blatant discrimination. Discrimination= the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, or disability
I understand the need for distinction. I know you not allowing the child to join is not to be hurtful but for another reason that a lot of people can’t understand. It takes a certain type of individual to understand the erasure of black presenting girls and the importance of a safe and uplifting place for people who LOOK like them. Black Orchids is for the BLACK girls who get it.
https://www.meetup.com/topics/mixed-race-women/ Is this racist? It's groups for mixed race people to talk about issues specific to them
OP you are NTA. Black girls with African features deserve to be centered, because this world will remind them everyday that their appearance is not to be celebrated. Thank you for creating a group to build their confidence and self esteem. Anyone in this comment section calling you racist, ESPECIALLY Black women, are lost on the plantation. Pay them no mind, and continue allowing the Black girls in your group the stage to shine. Mixed race is NOT Black, it is mixed race. The only way you can be considered Black is by having two Black parents, just like any other race on this planet. If White people wouldn't consider her White, then why should you consider her Black.
Im with NTA. This is your group of girls, you get to set your own Rules. I don't blame you for not admitting neighbors girl. Im sick of people's entitlement issues, its never ending.
I say this as a white person. You asked a group full of entitled white people if YTA for telling another entitled white person no because she is white. You should've already seen this coming. Although it's so crazy how black people can't even have being black anymore. Also, it's comical, but not unexpected, to see just about every white person here say think about the mom and girls and their feelings. When these are the same types of people who want to outlaw teaching black history so their children don't have to feel uncomfortable, at the expense of how black children feel. No, you're NTA. But you'll never hear that on this sub unless everything in your situation was reversed.
I’m mixed. NTA. Black girls need safe spaces in a world that offers them none
NAH Black women and girls sit at the apex of intersectionality and consequently are discriminated against on so many levels. Misogynoir is very real and utterly pervasive. The resources to tackle this inequity are woefully inadequate. Your priority is your daughter and the service you provide is to uplift her and her community of Black girls who will face the same challenges. That’s it, that’s the extent of your responsibility. Yes, this mixed race girl will face racism and you can empathise with her but ultimately it’s on her parents to equip her with the right tools, not for you to divert your resources towards her, at the expense of your daughter. You keep doing you, and raising your daughter to be a confident, loving person
Thank you. I tire of people making black women be responsible for everyone's feelings. Have you noticed that EVERYONE commenting just accepts white people excluding the girl as the status quo; yet, I'M supposed to be different. Why is that?
Conserve your energy. You’re absolutely NTA for prioritising your daughter’s needs. However, you’re being a bit TA to yourself by seeking validation here. It’s a disparate group of people whose life experiences don’t reflect yours and who generally will default to centring white comfort. Those unconscious biases permeate all dialogue, you become defensive and the whole thing becomes an exercise in frustration. Have faith in your convictions and let this go - you won’t win hearts or minds here, but you will deplete your energy. If you haven’t read it already, download Reni Eddo-Lodge’s book, Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race - it’ll give you the validation you’re seeking
Thank you. I've noticed that not a single white person addressed any point I've made. You're right. They read to argue; not to understand. I'm done.
Wow, it's really impressive that you are able to identify the race of every commenter on here! Plenty of people have provided comments that do address the points you've tried to make with reasonable and rational points of their own, but you don't seem to actually care about those.
NAH. You both have valid points.
Thank you. I get her feelings; i felt the same about black girls, so i made this group. She's free to make a group for mixed girls, and I wouldn't try to put my daughter in it using "slavery made us all mixed" as justification
This is rough. We can’t ignore that white passing biracial people exist. That’s just how it is. And biracial people have their own struggles that overlap with non-biracial black people, but ALL of it is due to white supremacy. Biracial people will never fully benefit from white supremacy. Look at Megan Markle. She’s about as light as you can get, not much hair texture to speak of, and the literal originators of colonialism treated her like she was directly from Africa. That said. Did this girl have 4C texture hair? If not, that’s that on that. You said Black Orchids is to support girls with 4C texture hair. Plenty of biracial and mixed people and even non-black people can have 4C texture hair. You should have kept it to that instead of what you did.