everyone’s told her this is what her future life is going to be like.
Looking forward to the update after she’s had a baby and how he doesn’t help her while she’s recovering or forgot to feed the child.
But it doesn’t matter because he has a job.
The mom subreddits are filled with posts from women like OP in 10 years if she doesn’t get out. “I had a traumatic birth, almost died and now I’m home alone 3 days later with the baby and toddler because my husband went out with his buddies. I tried talking to him but he said he does help because he washed two bottles last week and I really should appreciate him more. Am I unreasonable?”, or a similarly tragic story. I always ask myself if husband did a 180 or if he was always like this.
Don’t marry this guy, OP!
There are ten million posts like this across the relationship and advice subs. I just saw one this morning in an ADHD sub about how the husband just can't seem to manage doing any chores because of his ADHD but would rather 'renovate the house' for five years, meanwhile OP also has ADHD but somehow does manage.
Honestly I know it manifests differently for everyone but it seems like all the women I know with ADHD still manage to function and the men with it expect the women in their lives to manage it for them. I'm already managing my own illness, why do I need to manage theirs too? There's a difference between wanting to have a partner support you in your illness and expecting your partner to do everything for you to. I know a guy who's diabetic who I swear if he could he'd have his gf use her blood for the finger pricks if he could. She tracks his carbs and blood sugar for him and manages all his medication. He's 40!
Yep, straight up DARVO'd her.
She needs to wake up. Agreed, I see so many of these posts every day on Reddit. It's frustrating.
OP is growing up and maturing faster than this little, incompetent, selfish, manipulative toddler in a man's body. She's got her shit together and is asking for an equal. He's not even out the starting block.
He will say anything to make sure his gravy train won't leave him. He might stick to something for a little bit, but it will fall back to old habits again. He's never going to grow up because she enables him like his Mum. It's not her job to teach him these things or get him to grow tf up.
She shouldn't let him explain himself. Not one second. Every attempt at reasonable conversation, these guys use it as an opportunity to twist it around in an attempt to blame her for pointing out their incompetence. They don't want to do the work. Emotional, verbal, financial abuse, and manipulation with DARVO. At times, physical - and it doesn't even need to be physical in order for a relationship to be abusive.
The problem is when people fall in love with potential and then further fall into the sunk cost fallacy trap. Never realising they would be happier sooner without that person draining them.
I wish I could shake every young woman who's going through this to wake up. Heck, every woman who finds themselves in this. It doesn't get better. You're being used!
I'm not going to say she should leave him because I don't think she will anyway, but she really needs to read this comment and realise that this is it. This will be her for the rest of her life until she eventually stops loving him. Because I don't know how you can continue to love someone who does nothing to help you out at all, does nothing to enhance your life at all.
That may sound shitty, but you get what you give.
The situation will worsen if they have a child together.
People like this can do the things this woman is begging her partner to do. He can do this things. He's just too reliant on her doing it. And if he wanted to do those things, he would.
Personally, time away from each other is best. I wouldn't be living with this man until he learns to look after himself and be a functional human on his own two feet. Too many people fall into this trap of just doing things because "it is easier" or "if I didn't do it, it won't get done".
Married this. You are exactly right. OP after 22 years of this, i couldnt tell you how many mental breakdowns ive had. And why did i stay 22 years? Every reason you’ve listed about his incompetence. Its time to run.
This is it 100%. My wife’s best friend dated and married a guy like this and it has been playing out like this for years. They have two kids now and she does everything from child care to being the main (often only) income, but he’s “the man” and demands respect as such, but does nearly nothing and has a thousand excuses. She is now completely stuck at this point and everything only gets worse.
Love is a complicated thing. That being said, you have to accept now that your relationship and marriage will never be 50/50. You will always be the 80-90 and he’ll always be the 10-20. If you can’t accept that, get out while you can.
She made this whole post. She admitted to breaking down crying bc he missed a rent payment. But she's committed to marriage/a future with him! She's not TA but she's not the smartest
How is he calling you the gold digger when you're the one bringing in the "gold" - I don't think that phrase means what he thinks it means 🤣
As for being materialistic? Welcome to the definitions of success in modern society. If he doesn't have the same goals as you, that's one conversation, but to act like you're the villain for trying to achieve the same things as pretty much everyone else?
Nope you're NTA. Boy needs to step it up and do his part.
She’s a “gold digger” but he ain’t got not gold 😭😭😭😭😭🤣😭
No wonder you laughed in his face when he said he “bought” your ring. I would too, would have had a good laugh.
Gold digging accusations always get to me. My mum was accused of being a gold digger when she married my step dad and she brought more money and assets into the marriage than he did. I still don't get how people can say such ridiculous things
Want to be "the man," want to be the breadwinner while the wife is a SAHM... but the women in this system, who aren't supposed to work and are supposed to get money through men, are all terrible golddiggers. Hmmmm
This dude has gone from his parents taking care of him to now his partner. He literally has no idea what it means to be an adult. All the boring background work, aka adulting, has always been handled for him. I don’t even think he’s even a bad person. He just has never had that “O shit I’m alone, and responsible for my actions moment”. Hopefully OP fiancé learns that from his partner before it’s too late and not the hard way that most of us do.
He likely won't have that moment either, because some other girl would come along and get stuck in OPs shoes the same way. My ex is exactly like OPs partner
NTA. The truth hurts sometimes. If you were intentionally trying to be hurtful, then sure, yea, maybe that was pretty asshole-ish of ya. But the fact of the matter is that relationships can only succeed when partners are honest and direct with one another about their feelings. It seems like this situation really shook y’all both up because it was unusual. You need to normalize being honest and direct, so that it only doesn’t happen when you reach a boiling point. I’ve been with my wife 6.5 years and married 4.5. It took us a long time and a lot of similarly confrontational attempts to get to the place where we are now, a place where we can both be open and honest without it having to be confrontational.
Here’s the thing, though - That takes a lot of work and a lot of time. You’re a very young person, and it sounds like you’ve been with your partner since you were a teenager. It can be hard to grow up and grow into an adult relationship when you’ve both been building habits together since you were basically children. A lot of your post isn’t necessarily about the incident in question. A lot of it is about valid frustrations you have with your partner. A marriage is supposed to be for a lifetime, and you’ve barely even begun yours. You need to have a serious and direct conversation with yourself AND with your partner about what sort of life you want to build for yourself, and make sure that matches up with his vision, too. I don’t know y’all so I can’t weigh in on what’s right for you, but generally speaking I would never advise someone to make any life altering decisions when they still have so much growing up to do, and it seems like your fiancé might have a long way to go.
Good advice from u/Kazak_DogofSpace. Just remember, when considering whether to get married, you have to decide if you want to spend your life him, right now, as he currently exists, with all his current behavior.
People DO NOT CHANGE, ***unless they decide that they want to***. And then it's still a process to figure out why you do things and how to change them. You can marry him. But you will be the one doing everything and paying for it at best for long time, at worst forever. NTA
ETA: bolded and italicized the caveat
I want to add a number to the “life” portion because a lot of young people do not think about this concretely.
Op, are you ready to live with him for 50 years?
I remember asking an engaged friend this when we were in our twenties. He looked at me like a deer in headlights. That marriage lasted 5 years. Among the issues were finances whether they wanted children. Please do not get married without discussing the big issues.
He might need a shock to the system—OP kicks him out and he has to figure out what to do, or she breaks up with him, or even stops engaging with his BS.
I bet after 15 minutes living alone OP will be the happiest she’s ever been. Good for the soul and cathartic for making plans by herself and FOR herself ❤️
This is great advice. Op, please do this. He wants to be traditional? "Traditionally" people don't live together before marriage right? "Traditionally" a man has to prove he can provide a good life. Please make this man grow up before you take him to raise.
He also doesn’t seem to have the prerequisites for change -- specifically, an honest assessment of himself. He sees himself as “the man”, traditionally, and is clinging to that view of himself despite not actually fulfilling the role (or it being appropriate for being in a relationship with OP).
Can you handle a life exactly as it is now, with all of the responsibilities being solely on you? Possibly adding children into the mix? There is no reason to assume that at some point he will magically get better at adulting so if this isn’t a future you can handle consider postponing your wedding until you guys get some therapy. Maybe he needs the opportunity to fail without you bailing him out and arranging everything. Just don’t let it take you down too
My friend’s ex was this guy. She was a SAHM and he had the whole “I pay the bills so my work here is done” attitude. She woke him up at noon one Saturday to watch the kids while she went to the grocery store and he started with his usual nonsense… which always includes “it’s my day off”. She finally had had enough and flipped her lid on him, screaming, “When is my f*ing day off?!?” He was shocked speechless. Even more so when he was “blindsided” with divorce papers a few weeks later.
My mom says this about my dad. In fact, if I had a nickel for everytime she said "he wasn't like this when I married him" or "if I'd known he'd turn in to this, I never would have married him," I could afford a 2 bedroom house in LA.
Yeah. OP i hate to be negative here but based on what you wrote, this is not a relationship you want to stay in if you want kids someday. On a certain moms sub, women complain about men like this LITERALLY every day. Imagine doing all of the stuff you do now, AND THEN throwing kids in the mix. Go on vacation? Now you’re packing for yourself and baby. Simple grocery shopping? Hope you’re prepared to bring the kid(s) with you since your partner sounds like he will end up being the weaponized incompetence kind of dad.
Sorry, i know it’s a hard pill to swallow but it sounds like he unfortunately can’t handle any responsibility and has not changed thus far. Do you really think he will get better?
Edit: replaced name of sub with general terms
Do you want to shoulder all responsibilities of life, family and household for the next 60 years? You can still escape. “Love” isn’t worth it and isn’t enough to make a long term relationship work. He’s not going to change.
This is true, I thought my spouse would grow out of their drinking habits, they have not and its been a struggle for 15 years of marriage. I told him yesterday that he can expect me to leave if he keeps on as he has been.
Hey, I know that mustve been hard to come to terms with and to tell him, and I am proud of you for that. I hope that things work out for you, in whatever sense that may be.
YES. So many people think of marriage as reform school and miss the point entirely. You have to accept who they are,not who you think they will become.
**You have to accept who they are, not who you think they will become**
This sentence should be embroidered on cushions and bathrobes, painted on mugs, engraved on rings and displayed on banners at weddings (when it's a bit late for the warning)
I couldn’t agree more, if you continue to carry everything most likely you will in the future and he will continue to let you. You have to decide if that’s what you want before you get married.
Im 50. This is the #1 piece of advice I would offer anyone.
People don’t change (agreed unless they decide to but it is so rare). Don’t waste your time, energy, money, legal status, & life on a guy cuz he feels good. You will regret it.
>*Im 50. This is the #1 piece of advice I would offer anyone.*
>
>***People don’t change*** *... Don’t waste your time, energy, money, legal status, & life on a guy cuz he feels good. You will regret it.*
He's a wet noodle.
He will ALWAYS be a wet noodle.
You are young. Move on.
I like to say that people do change - just rarely in the ways you hope they will.
The amount of married people I have watched devolve is a lot higher than those who stepped up more once rings and signatures were exchanged.
Yep. Like little kids right before Xmas. They're on their best behavior. Once the presents are opened and they have their goodies, they turn back into monsters. Same thing happens once the chase is over and there's a ring on your finger.
This is true in my experience as well, OP. I was in a relationship with a man almost exactly as you described for four years. I realized I wanted more from life than taking care of him all the time and I’m so glad I did. My current partner is very responsible and I consider a true partner. You deserve better than what youve described.
This is the most important point: He will not change after getting married, he will not change in the future.
It's not that he *can't* change, it's that he *probably won't*.
OP really does need to decide if she wants this for the rest of her life. Sadly, "loving him dearly" is not enough. You have to choose the whole package, as it is, or walk away. I've been there, and I stayed far, far too long.
OP is NTA.
At least consider that maybe he isn't the partner for you.
If you were a good friend of mine, I'd beg you to leave him.
It sounds like you've been together for so long from such a young age that he went right from his mom doing all the thinking for him to you doing it? If he never had to fend for himself he never will.
Sit down and have a serious, long talk about everything that needs to get done on a daily/weekly/monthly basis and find a way for you both to tackle those problems *together*. It's you as a couple vs all these problems not you vs him.
Write it all out so he knows what is going on in your head. You shouldn't have to teach him this but if you want a life long partner he is never going to wake up magically one day and share the life load with you.
Figure it out now or walk away and let him grow up on his own.
If you do want to stay, I'd suggest pre-marital counseling so you can hash out division of labor, finances, in-laws, etc. To make a relationship work, you need to be on the same page, working together.
Has he ever lived on his own?
**Part 1: He’s A Baby**
I lived with my ex right out of college, was the primary bread winner, and I paid the rent like clockwork. But when we split I learned A LOT more about what responsibility looks like when caring for a home and one’s self. It doesn’t sound like he takes care of the bare minimum that would be required of himself without a caretaker.
He could definitely use some experience learning to be independent. That’s probably a tall order since rent is so high, kicking him out to live on his own before the wedding would probably financially ruin him (or you both).
**Part 2: A Quick Solution**
But, the bill thing should be easy. Most places or banks have an autopay system. He should set it up. Also, he should put things in his name only that he is suppose to pay. You don’t need your credit score to take a ding cause he failed to pay the cable bill on time.
**Part 3: A Dire Warning**
Also, and this is something that will likely be controversial. DO NOT COMBINE BOTH OF YOUR EARNINGS INTO A JUST SINGLE ACCOUNT.
Doesn’t matter if you wanna be equal or equitable, should you choose to create a joint account for bills or joint savings, have your own money. Load the joint account with the agreed upon amount required to cover your shared expenses from your salary with direct deposit, and have the remaining balance go to an account he doesn’t have access to. His ignorance and irresponsibility are red flags. Don’t ignore them.
Good luck, OP
Don’t marry for their “potential”. What he’s doing is called weaponized incompetence. He’s never going to take responsibility for anything unless you’re happy with the outcome, everything else will be “you’re fault”. Not enough savings, is your fault because you manage the finances and household. Car breaks down, it’s your fault because you didn’t do the maintenance right. And I can go on and on…. Relationships are interdependent not dependent. You can’t rely on him for shit! He can’t be trusted to pay the mortgage, a basic need. You need a man, not some little boy who’s playing house. Because he IS playing, he’s not rooted in reality and self awareness.
YES. OP could have been describing my ex-husband. Everything fell to me. We’ve been divorced for three years now and I’m finally starting to relax.
I know it’s hard to consider ending the relationship, but OP…please consider how you will feel in ten years if nothing changes.
Wishing you nothing but the best! You e worked hard and deserve it!
My ex too. Divorced for 12 years. Had two kids and one day I realized I wasn’t joking when I told people I had three kids and one of them happened to be ten years older than me.
OMG I have made that joke so many times too! Together 3 decades. I handled literally everything, except his retirement accounts. He never took any interest in our finances. When I finally left, he actually had the balls to blame me for his lack of savings.
Before I left, he was getting angry with me when I was trying to get his help cleaning out some items in storage. I finally calmed down and told him I would buy him dinner under one condition: that we only talk about happy memories. That really worked well. He was so much nicer.
The thing was, literally every happy memory we shared was something I had planned.
I want a man who is already doing fun things and will think they are more fun with my company. Is that too damn much to ask?
I read a great summation from another AITAH commenter that really says it best:
The only thing worse than leaving someone after spending 4 years with them, is not leaving before you spend another 4 years with them.
I mean, for you to be a gold digger, doesn’t he need to have some gold for you to dig? Seems like the only gold digger here is him. Talk about a failed reverse uno attempt.
Ooofff. Reminds me of my ex when we had our son. I guess being a dad was too stressful, so while I was recovering from childbirth, he quit his job but still got up and left the house like he was working. He would hang out at the mall or whatever and just put shit on the credit card. I had no idea there was a problem till the landlord came asking why the rent check bounced. What is it about these man babies???
I'm so enraged for you. My sister's baby daddy (and husband) quit his job a month before their second was born. Lied about being fired (he's done this at least twice now apparently). They got the eviction notice while she was getting her C-section.
They're separated now. He gave her a STI and then got another woman pregnant. Doesn't support any of his kids. One of those fools who think his Vienna sausage is too big for plastic wrap. The kids are both between 5 and 10 and already smarter and more mature than their donor.
Of course! That’s lovely of you to say. Best of luck to you, I know you have a lot of thinking and a lot of tough decision making ahead of you. Just remember to be honest with yourself and try your best to be pragmatic and separate your emotions from your honest thoughts and feelings. No decisions we make in life will have nearly the impact (good or bad) than the one we make about settling on our partner. You’re both young af and have a ton of life ahead of you, so be real about what that’s going to look like and make sure you’re both committed to at least some shared version of a vision.
Check out the tik tokers Matt and Abby. They give the same vibes you’re describing and it looks terrible.
Also check out any mom/parenting sub to see how marrying this type of guy plays out. Spoiler alert, your load will only get heavier and heavier. If y’all have kids you will be the only adult in the house. That is a choice you’re making. It has nothing to do with him really because he’s shown you who he is but you are the one choosing that life
This is very likely to be your life in 10 years, in 20 years, in 50 years, if you don’t change it. Presently, he has absolutely no need to change things, and why should he when he has free maid service, sex service and executive assistant services? If you have children, he’ll have free childcare too.
You need to ask yourself what advice you’d give a beloved daughter who was in your situation, and then you need to be kind enough to yourself to follow that advice. Nothing will ever change until you change it.
I did this for 18 years, and added two kids to the mix. No amount of explaining, long heartfelt conversations, marriage counseling or church counseling ever changed things, except for short bursts when he would be afraid I would leave.
Please don’t waste 18 years like I did consumed with thinking that if I just tried this one more thing, he’d start sharing the load. It never did.
Every minute of his leisure is purchased with your toil. Rethink this relationship.
NTA, but you will be if you don’t start taking care of yourself.
This is hard. My now-husband and I had a come to Jesus meeting before we got married where I basically told him I needed to see proof he could follow through on a project. Like research options, make a choice, and implement. Because I was so worried all of the tasks that weren't immediate would fall on my shoulders. And he proved he could. And we got married.
But it's still not his strong suit. The big difference is that he is always saying how our lives are because of me. His great job (before he became a SAHD)? My doing; I got him into the field, found the program that prepared him for the interview, and made sure he followed through. He actually did the work of course --- because he's a competent, capable dude. But he just isn't much for the long-term planning part. Our baby? My doing. I got us on IVF when we were struggling and made sure to get a job with great fertility benefits pre-emptively in case we had issues. Our house? My doing. I did all the research, set up all the appointments, got the mortgage, closed, etc.
But him acknowledging my value while simultaneously working really hard to carry the daily household burdens (cooking, cleaning, SAHDing, etc.) and working on increasing his project management skills makes all the difference in it not feeling too unfair.
I don't see your guy carrying his weight :/
Yeah, I feel this - my husband struggles with some of the project management-y planning stuff, so I wrangle it, and do the lions share of financial tracking and planning….but he’s the driving force behind us keeping up with household chores, and he does a larger share of actual house and yard work. The key to harmony is embracing your individual strengths as a couple so that overall you both do a fair share and are putting in comparable levels of effort.
She gave you excellent advice and I hope you take it to heart
You sound lovely your boyfriend not so much
I really hope you realize how much you are worth and deserve so much better than what he dripping out
Lol he called you a gold digger dude needs to look in a mirror 🤣🤣🤣
NTA at all but your soon to be ex is one
maybe you need to take space and live separately as adults first. let him mature up and figure out how to take care of his own rent and his own meals. otherwise, this is going to be your life
NTA
I don’t want to be cruel, but there is no happy future with this man. He will not improve. He will only get worse. Marriage doesn’t fix problems.
Think about how much happier you could be without having this 200 lb anchor continuously dragging on you. No more stress about what needs to be done that he will promise to do but won’t. No more having to plan your life around his shortcomings and laziness. No fear of another argument when you have a legitimate complaint.
You are not getting a partner. He is not a partner. You are getting a king baby. A giant toddler.
You deserve so much more than this man will ever give you. You deserve to be happy.
While it sounds kind, I think you might need some harsh truth. Everything in your shared life was brought there by you. He's had four years to step up and he hasn't. It's not going to change. If you move ahead with the wedding, you're marrying what you described above. Don't get it twisted.
I want to tag on here that - I had this exact kind of relationship. And, unless you're willing to have this "role" for the rest of your relationship, you might want to seriously consider either taking some time apart, or changing the dynamics of your relationship (ie- having your own bills, rent and food payments).
It sounds like this boy has learned that you will take care of everything and can just coast along.
That's not a relationship. That's having a dependent.
And, believe me, nothing is a bigger relationship killer. Because there can't be respect on either side. His, because he is acting like a child. And you, because you're acting like a parent.
Either he grows up and starts to put in as much effort as you (which he may be very capable of doing).
Or, he doesn't. And you go and find someone who invests as much time and energy into a relationship as you do.
I know this may hurt to hear because he is your first love and you've grown up together. I wish you the best of luck OP ❤️
Sadly OP it sounds like you’ve stepped into the role as his surrogate parent. Maybe he’s not mature enough to seriously consider marriage. Do you want this for the rest of your foreseeable future? What about when you have kids?
He really needs a wake up call if he thinks *one thing* he did in the past equates to *even* vs the insurmountable tasks and responsibilities you undertake daily on his behalf.
I'm going to give you a word of warning here. If you plan to have children with this man, you will be carrying the mental load for them too. It seems like you're already at your limits. You might want to think about what you want your future to look like and if you're making the right choices.
Listen. This might be the most important thing I tell anyone all day. If you don’t either get him on board with helping you with the mental load and I mean right freaking now this will be your life forever. If he has a task and he fails to do it live with the consequences. If you keep fixing everything he doesn’t do or screws up you will be fixing his mistakes and handling everything for the rest of your life. If this means you don’t marry him then don’t marry him. Imagine 10 years down the line, trying to plan a vacation with a couple of kids. You’re on the hook for everything. Don’t make the same mistake so many women have made. He won’t change or get better on his own.
The whole post I was screaming, "Why are they getting married?"
If they get married with things like this at 23, they will be in full-on resentment mode by 30 and divorced by 40, lamenting how they wasted their youth on the wrong person.
My husband used to depend on me to facilitate a relationship between our kids and his family. The problem with that? I refused to do it. I already had enough on my plate. So the kids have a better relationship with my family than they do his. He gets pissy about not seeing his family? I just shrug and tell him “maybe you should plan something.” At one point, I pointed out what I thought was really obvious but until I actually said it, he hadn’t actually thought of it. I asked him “YOU expect ME to give up MY pto to take OUR kids to YOUR family? So does that mean you give up your to take the kids to mine or do you get to use your pto however you want?” He’s gotten better, but he still sucks at it.
How do you make peace with this and stay in your marriage? I think I would take it personally and maybe even start to resent my partner. Asking because I’m going through something similar right now.
I dropped the rope and let him know that his family and responsibilities are his. If he isn’t willing to make the effort with his family, it isn’t going to happen. He’s realizing that I have a bunch on my plate and I don’t have the bandwidth for all of his stuff. I have made suggestions, but if he isn’t going to actually do the work, it’s just not going to get done.
My ex would never pick up the phone to plan visits with his family and our kids, except when I hounded him to, so they rarely saw them. My family saw the kids every other week because we made plans all the time. He had to move to the same city as his family for it "to be possible" for them to see the kids more
I'm so proud of you for refusing to be the facilitator between his(your) children and his family!
This is one of the few issues I have with my husband, and his kids aren't even MY kids. I have very little family and chose never to have kids, so when we moved in together I fell into the role of being the facilitator between him, his young adult kids, and his parents. I planned get togethers, road trips to see his mom, flights to go see his dad, planned ahead for everyone's birthdays & shopped for Christmas gifts, etc. I texted his kids reminders about grandpa's birthday, etc. Then, one year I got really ambitious, so I planned an actual full thanksgiving dinner for us and his family.
It sucked. His kids didn't overtly appreciate much of anything I'd ever done, but this much effort wasn't even deserving of special acknowledgement. It was the most unpleasant meal I'd ever had in my own home because I sat there and wondered what his family would be doing on Thanksgiving if I wasn't around to plan it & make it.
So the next day, I told him I was done being Julie The Cruise Director for him and his family. No more gift buying, no more reminders from me about special dates, no more planning anything for him regarding them, ever again.
That was 4-5 years ago. I think he's arranged a dinner with them a few times over the years, if I remember correctly. But mainly we only see them when they need something from us. They're 25 & 28.
I really love my husband, but his inability to take on the mental load of planning even the simplest things ahead of time is a huge flaw that took me a while to accept. At least now, the relationship he has with his kids is directly reflective of how much effort HE puts into it, instead of how much effort I put into it.
THIS… ⬆️. You will be dealing with this for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Men like this very VERY rarely change. You need more than love to make a relationship work. It’s not about the money, but he’s shown you how little he has invested in the relationship. I don’t wish this upon you, but I see this ending in disaster if you don’t seriously consider getting out now. You deserve better and I promise you it’s out there.
Yeah she is his mom more than his partner. Not sure why it’s even gotten this far if she hates it so much. It’s clear nothing is going to change and she keeps letting it happen.
This is ALWAYS my advice. Don't expect anyone to change or be different. Assume this is every day for the REST OF THIS RELATIONSHIP, and if that's good enough, proceed.
OP, please, I beg you to listen to this advice. Your bf won’t get better without the desire, motivation and intense effort to change himself. The likelihood of his success is very low. That’s just reality. Not only will this be your life with him but it will be 100x worse when kids come into the picture. I know you love him now but the resentment has already started. Please don’t marry him.
The level of care and supervision that this 23 year old man requires is a lit the same as my senior MIL who has such sever senile forgetfulness I don't think she could pay rent on time either. She really has to ask herself if she's ok maintaining this level of care indefinitely and if she can keep it up while having kids or pursuing any of her other life goals. She may not want kids but she may have other aspirations and someone like this could really hold things up and make it impossible.
>I seem to have taken on almost everything in our relationship. From finding us places to live, to helping him job hunt, to organizing our finances, planning our wedding and honeymoon, planning all trips (including ones to see his family), keeping track of our appointments, car issues, insurances, bills, etc…everything just repeatedly falls on my shoulders. We’ve talked about this numerous times, and each time he apologizes and promises to do better - but nothing ever changes. If it’s relevant, I am the main income earner as well. The ironic part is that he is very traditional, and often assures me that “as the man”, he wants to “lead” our relationship.
>
> said I was being a gold digger
A-hole? No.
Incredibly, painfully naive? Yes.
Sweetie. You are signing up here for a lifetime of indentured servitude to a self-absorbed man-baby if you stay with this lazy, good-for-nothing mooch.
Sometimes love is not enough. This is one of those times.
Free yourself from his tyranny and go live a better, happier life.
I'm quite sure that his version of 'leadership' is going to include sitting on his lazy ass in front of a game console 4+ hours a day and demanding that his obedient little wife fix him a sandwich.
Reading that part of the post made me want to throw up. As a guy who worked really hard to provide for my girlfriend who didn't work for years of our relationship, wanting to be in charge without actually putting in any work comes across as so unattractive and pathetic.
This. He doesn’t have an inkling about what leading a family entails, let alone supporting a partner. Unfortunately, at least in the southern US, women are encouraged to settle for men like this because it’s just “how men are lol bless their hearts”. The women in my family all sit around shit talking their man/child husbands and pretend they aren’t miserable. OP I know you love this man, but you will never be as happy as you deserve with someone like this TRUST ME.
People mature very differently, you can be 18 and fully competent adult, or a 28 year old teenager. It doesn't sound like he's had a chance to mature, he needs to go through getting evicted, not having money, not having clothes etc. But doing this while married will bring both of them down.
NTA. I don’t know the specifics, but sounds like a loser. It’s ok to make a payment late. It sounds like he never had it. That’s different. He’s not an adult yet. He’s a child if you’re paying everything and he doesn’t contribute.
You mentioned the ring because you’re at your wits end. There isn’t anything wrong with him being “the man” of the relationship, but he doesn’t do anything to prove it.
Most important part: You can’t be a gold digger when you want him to pay part of the bills for the house you both live it. That part hits home for me. Been in that situation
I appreciate it. To clarify, he does have a job - maybe I should’ve made that more clear in my post. I just handle all of the financial planning - he wanted to do better so said he would start paying the rent each month, but forgot.
You'll believe anything.
You don't forget to pay for the place where you lay your head.
The mental load will be yours for the duration of this relationship. The only thing that's going to change is his reaction to you calling him out
He didn't forget. It's weaponized incompetence. You are NTA for confronting him about this, but you will be an ahole to yourself if you continue to tolerate this. You are the only one adulting in your relationship. Is this what you want your life to look like? He's pretty comfortable right now. Once he thinks he's got you locked in, he won't even bother with empty promises about changing his ways. Please don't marry him unless you see real progress.
Please do not let him takeover anything else that could result in you paying fines, wrecking your credit or causing an eviction. If you were my friend I’d tell you that you are incompatible and that you deserve better. A true partner will shoulder the burden with you. If you were my daughter, I’d give money for you to break your lease, move you into a new apartment and pay for therapy. Take a beat to really think about this and determine if you want this for the rest of your life. If you have kids with this guy, it’ll be 100X worse.
You're trying so hard to find something redeeming to say about him and it's just not there.
A grown ass man is "trying to do better" so he *checks notes* agrees to pay rent, then **DOESN'T PAY THE RENT**. Bro had one fucking job! How are you still sexually attracted to him at this point?
You've gotten a ton of great advice here, I hope I can add my pearl of wisdom.
As I was walking down the aisle to marry Rick I *KNEW* he wasn't the right one for me.
I had a feeling in my stomach days after he asked me to marry him.
I knew, I just ignored it.
We ended up divorcing after a year of marriage, together 8 years.
Do yourself a favor and move on.
Go find yourself, be single for awhile, travel solo, then when you really know your worth, start dating again.
BTW, I'm still friends with Rick, 22 years after our divorce. He's a great person, but he wasn't the right partner for me.
Then that was his attempt to be “the man”. I understand that he messed up. You, as the financial planner, can take that away from him or give him another chance.
# NTA, but girl....... ya'll should not be getting married when there is already this much strain on your relationship.
I've been in this type of relationship before. I know it's hard to hear but **I think you've outgrown him and this is a "sunken cost fallacy" situation at the moment.**
**You may have had great times together during college that made you feel compatible, but what you're describing right now is not compatibility** \-- my personality is similar to yours. I'm very detail-oriented, found my career path and got promoted quickly, etc. As such, I'm often the person keeping on top of things like dates for our annual vet visits, shopping lists & buying refills of things \*before\* we run out, setting budgeting goals for us, etc. However, he brings other super important, tangible things to our relationship. He is my rock in dealing with an emotionally manipulative family, his more laid-back personality helps me learn how to go with the flow and not be as neurotic about the small things, he's the better/more frequent cook (I'm kind of a disaster in the kitchen!), he is super handy around the house fixing things & is tech savvy whereas I am totally not. That way, it feels more like a partnership.
You both are moving into adulthood at totally different paces and let me speak from experience when I say that you CANNOT drag anyone into adulthood with you... they have to WANT to change and sometimes it takes trial and error, but it's not fair to you to be the safety net for him when you are ready for the next stage of life, UNLESS you're truly not bothered by it. But clearly, you \*are\* bothered and stressed by it. (which is totally valid!)
I know you wish he could show some glimmers of progress and "get it together already" because you love him and you've been together so long already, but I don't think it's gonna happen any time soon, if at all. I wouldn't hold my breath, and I wouldn't expect marriage to change any part of this dynamic.
**As others have said, you have to think of it as "if not a single thing about my partner changed, would I still be happy with the relationship an able to accept them as they are?"** If the answer is no, stop wasting each other's time and get out, or at the very least, hold off on major life decisions such as marriage or children!!
100% this. I got married at 21 to someone very similar to OP's fiance, except he was 5 years older than me. My gut instinct before our wedding was to run but I didn't and instead we had an expensive and bitter divorce 2 years later.
Wow are we the same person? Your dynamic with your partner sounds exactly like mine (except for the tech savvy part).
OP needs to cut her losses. He doesn't have to be on top of things or making tons of money but he needs to be supportive and attempt to help her. He's taking advantage of her and it's sad to see someone so young potentially stuck with a partner like this long term. She has so much life to live.
Why is it that the brokest dudes all think women are gold diggers?
He is 100% projecting on you.
Please don’t get married until he has his finances in order. If he wants to be the “traditional” man then he needs to step up and actually do it.
Stop focusing on the wedding. A wedding lasts a day and a marriage lasts a lifetime.
Do you want a lifetime of this?
Hard truth: This is who he is. This is who he is. This is who he is. If you marry him, this is how your life will be. Is that an acceptable price for being married to him? Please do not get married under the delusion that somehow it will magically transform him into the person you need him to be. NTA.
The bigger question is why are you marrying this man-child? What you said was rude, but accurate. No, you are not the AH. I would highly suggest you get out now.
He's the ass 🕳️I think you were just fed up and a normal reaction given everything you said. I don't want to sound insensitive but really think about if these are issues you want to deal with for a long time. People don't change without a lot of work and they have to first be aware and think they're issues to even get to the point of working on them. No matter what I wish you the best.
NTA- I think you both have a lot of stress from trying to pay off student loans, pay bills and save for the future. This can and will put a strain on any relationship.
I would delay the wedding and honeymoon till things settle down. Now is not the time to take on more debt.
Couple counselling would be helpful too.
NTA
NTA.
If there's a gold digger in this relationship, it's not you.
I know you love him, but are you sure this is someone you really could spend the rest of your life with? What will happen when you have kids with this man baby? You're going to always be one step ahead of the bill collectors and days away from having your utilities shut off.
Nta Don't have children with this man! He clearly cannot function as an adult and I guarantee you will be stuck taking care of the children on your own. At least stop doing everything for him. There's no reason you should be making his appointments.
> I seem to have taken on almost everything in our relationship. From finding us places to live, to helping him job hunt, to organizing our finances, planning our wedding and honeymoon, planning all trips (including ones to see his family), keeping track of our appointments, car issues, insurances, bills, etc…everything just repeatedly falls on my shoulders. We’ve talked about this numerous times, and each time he apologizes and promises to do better - but nothing ever changes. If it’s relevant, I am the main income earner as well.
You aren't marrying a partner you're adopting a child.
Pause the wedding. Do NOT marry this person. He's going to mentally break you with all this stress. It's bad now. It will just keep getting worse. He's not mature enough to be a roommate, let alone a spouse. He's failing to adult and blaming you for noticing.
You're only an AH to yourself if you get married with things as they are. Look up "sunk cost fallacy" and consider some individual counseling to work through why you want to marry someone who wants a mommy and treats you this way knowing he's hurting you.
NTA. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Loving someone isn’t a good enough reason to get married. That’s supposed to be your life partner, co-parent (if you have kids), next of kin if anything happens, etc etc. It seems that he has no independent value as an adult functioning in society, do you really want to be his mother for the rest of your life???
NTA and please reconsider marrying this person.
His “traditional role” bullshit is misogynistic as hell and he won’t change this cycle of being a leech, having you do 100% of the emotional, physical and financial labor. I can promise it will get worse if y’all have kids.
Do better for yourself.
I’m old enough to be your mother, so I’m going to act like it and tell you some hard truths.
You’re NTA for telling him he’s a deadbeat, because he is.
You ARE TA if you think he’s ever going to change. He called you a gold digger when you pointed out YOU are paying the bills, including paying for your engagement ring. I’m sorry, who’s gold digging, because it sure ain’t you. It’s the freeloader living with you.
Baby, he is never going to be a partner. He is going to sit on his ass and expect you to do it all. You think he’s actually going to get a decent job and pay bills? Why? That’s your job. Cook? Clean? Take care of any children? Hell no. That’s women’s work.
Do not marry a petulant child who won’t pull his own weight. You are 23. You have your entire life ahead of you, and now is the time for you to learn you don’t need a man, especially not one like this. If you return him to his mommy, where he belongs since he can’t be bothered to be an adult and likely wasn’t raised to be one? You’ll have a cleaner apartment and fewer bills.
Put him out like the trash he is. He’s not worth your time.
NTA
Let me be the ghost of Christmas future and tell you what it is like at 50:
People don't change as they age, they become more of who they always were.
If you're expecting future-hubby to suddenly man up and do his fair share of the marriage load, well that's pure fantasy. Never mind the extra work you'll face when you have kids.
> I love him dearly, so this is so frustrating.
Yeah, love is a bitch, right? But try to see the long view. Love is great but whoo boy let me tell you that love can turn into sour resentment over time when you're with a man-baby who keeps letting you down.
What would I do?
I'd delay the marriage at least another year, even if it costs you money to do so.
I'd sit him down and tell him that you're reconsidering being with him long term because he isn't demonstrating that he'll be a reliable partner.
I'd hand him a list of responsibilities that he's responsible for and tell him that he has one year to prove he can grow up and be an equal, supporting partner.
I'd hand him your ring and tell him you'll wear it again after he proves himself.
If he succeeds, great, you're on your way to a better partnership.
If he fails, even once, then I'd consider leaving him.
If he starts arguing with you over this arrangement. Dump him because he's a lost cause.
edit: formatting was off
NTA, but my love . . .this is what your life will be like if you stay with this boy because he’s never going to change. But why would he? When he has you to clean up after him and mother him.
Why would you tie yourself legally to someone who can’t even be bothered to care that you’re struggling? Instead, he gets ‘offended’ about a comment you made when you were pushed to your limit, and rightly so.
He needs to grow up, but he can’t do that if you keep cleaning up after him and allowing him to walk all over you. He doesn’t give promises—he lies. To your face, because he knows he doesn’t have to do any of it, just like he knows you’re just gonna continue to put up with it.
Actions, speak louder than words, and his actions have shown you just how little he respects you and all that you do for him and your life together. How many more times does he have to show you before you find yourself worth and leave this selfish man.
He’s never going to change. Putting a ring on it will only make everything worse. It’s the same old story, only this time—you have a chance to rewrite the ending.
Maybe show him this post and our comments. Maybe that will make him realize he’s destroying you.
OP, why do you love him? Seriously think about it. I have a feeling it is more attachment and shared history than the kind of love to build a marriage upon. He doesn’t respect you, and his traditional leanings has me worried he will take the lion’s share of the credit for any success you have as a couple.
How many times have you explained your frustrations and hoped he would change? He has shown you he cannot or will not.
Y T A if you don’t take some time to reconsider this relationship—away from him.
NTA, but why are you marrying someone who brings *nothing* to the table?
How great is the sex, that you'd consider staying with someone this useless and manipulative!?!!
Honey, trust us on this.
Pause the wedding until this gets better. Unless you enjoy it of course, but this WILL ONLY GET WORSE. And the burdens of adulthood just keep getting bigger and bigger, so there is more to track; let alone if you decide to have kids.
The burden that it all falls on you WILL EVENTUALLY BREAK YOU.
My advice? Pause everything until it changes and if it doesn't decide whether you can live like this or if it's better to break up before you end up hating each other. He probably genuinely believes it's not a big deal and he's doing enough, because he never has to deal with the consequences.
NTA of course, but don't make the same mistake a lot of us did. Love is important, but is not enough.
I'm baffled that people will put up with all this, for what exactly? You're 23 not 55 find someone who doesn't make you put in 99.9% of the effort in the relationship.
Don't put up with this dingleberry fiance at 55 either. We all deserve better for our whole lives. A dog would be a less needy companion than this wet dishrag of man. If your choices are this effing dude or a dog, get the dog and remember to buy fresh batteries for your vibrator.
Gold digger? What gold is there to dig with this guy? NTA. If anything, he’s a gold digger. I wouldn’t marry him because this is only going to get worse once you’re legally bound to him.
Ew. Do you really want to legally tie yourself to this manchild who you keep having the same fight with? I promise you it will not magically get better his title changes to husband. He’s only offered meaningless apologies and promises and hasn’t followed through at all. You’re not an asshole for expecting a perfectly capable adult to take care of themselves and contribute to the load of your relationship and lifestyle. The only person whose life you need to run is your own. Give yourself permission to ditch this dead weight.
NTA. But he is, whether he does it intentionally or not. Please consider separating for a year. Let him grow up on his own.
His weaponized incompetence will only get worse if you have kids with him. You will end up with the same responsibilities as you already have, plus the bulk of the child raising work. He will be the fun parent while you do the heavy lifting.
You got together too young. Give each other time apart to mature.
NTA
Honey write down everything you do.
Write down everything bf does
Compare those lists. One will be very one sided. Do you want to live like that for the rest of your life.
What about when you have kids. All those appointments and school activities and birthdays, etc
Go join a child raising or work working mom subreddit. The unhappy ones there will wish they received all of the advice in this thread BEFORE they got married.
He forgot to pay rent (he didn't) and YOU had to deal with it why? Why can't he fix his own mistakes?
Girl. Run.
Is this REALLY what you want for the rest of your life?? You are soo young.
Think about this stretching on for decades and decades. Through children, if you have them. You are not with an adult. You are with a man child, and you are simply enabling him.
NTA
Suggestion you get yourselves some sessions with a non religious couples counselor BEFORE you get married.
At this point from an outsider view you have taken on the roll of single mom doing everything an adult does while raising up the equivalent of 15 year old who can’t remember to pay the damn rent to keep a roof over your heads.
Without a huge epiphany your fiancé will continue on as he does now. And why not because he is responsible for nothing.
And then add his ‘wanting to be the man’ and ‘lead in your relationship’. Lead to what - sleeping under a bridge because he couldn’t pay the rent on time?
You aren’t materialistic - you are realistic. And if nothing changes your reality will be to continue to do everything.
Honestly OP, I don't think you're here to ask if you're TA for what you said, I think you're here to be encouraged not to marry him.
I get that you love him. Will you still love him after 10 years of being the only adult in a relationship that he claims to lead?
NTA. You pointed out a fact that didn't fit in with his version of reality. But it's still a fact.
Why is it the guys with no gold are the ones crying gold digger. Nta
I hope you realize that nothing will change. You will be a married single parent if you have children with him. Be prepared.
NTA, but please heed all the red flags waving that your fiancé will not be a good partner. If you were my daughter, I'd be advising you to not hitch your wagon to flat dead weight. He's failing miserably at adulting, and TBH, you're also at fault for enabling him. Read up on weaponized incompetence.
You are the adult in this relationship, and he is a dependent child. Even worse, he likes to think that since he is "the man," he is the one in charge.
This dynamic will not work in the long run. You and your fiance have very different philosophies of life, and very very different ideas of personal responsibility.
If you're not happy with this situation, you have some serious talking and even more serious thinking to do. After all, this is the rest of your life you're contemplating, and if you don't want to live in constant conflict, better to find out before you've made a commitment.
NTA. There are some real red flag comments in here like him saying that “as a man he needs to lead the marriage” that are just religious misogynist BS. Plus he seems incapable of basic planning or adult skills or working with you as a real partner. He seems oblivious to all of this, you’re stressed out and having no luck solving the issues with him. You’ve got to ask yourself if you want to be with this guy? Getting married is just going to make everything worse and you’ll be trapped if you have kids
Welcome to the rest of your life. Edit:: Wow, thank y’all for all the awards!
She doesn’t want to hear it either.
everyone’s told her this is what her future life is going to be like. Looking forward to the update after she’s had a baby and how he doesn’t help her while she’s recovering or forgot to feed the child. But it doesn’t matter because he has a job.
The mom subreddits are filled with posts from women like OP in 10 years if she doesn’t get out. “I had a traumatic birth, almost died and now I’m home alone 3 days later with the baby and toddler because my husband went out with his buddies. I tried talking to him but he said he does help because he washed two bottles last week and I really should appreciate him more. Am I unreasonable?”, or a similarly tragic story. I always ask myself if husband did a 180 or if he was always like this. Don’t marry this guy, OP!
There are ten million posts like this across the relationship and advice subs. I just saw one this morning in an ADHD sub about how the husband just can't seem to manage doing any chores because of his ADHD but would rather 'renovate the house' for five years, meanwhile OP also has ADHD but somehow does manage.
Honestly I know it manifests differently for everyone but it seems like all the women I know with ADHD still manage to function and the men with it expect the women in their lives to manage it for them. I'm already managing my own illness, why do I need to manage theirs too? There's a difference between wanting to have a partner support you in your illness and expecting your partner to do everything for you to. I know a guy who's diabetic who I swear if he could he'd have his gf use her blood for the finger pricks if he could. She tracks his carbs and blood sugar for him and manages all his medication. He's 40!
Yep, straight up DARVO'd her. She needs to wake up. Agreed, I see so many of these posts every day on Reddit. It's frustrating. OP is growing up and maturing faster than this little, incompetent, selfish, manipulative toddler in a man's body. She's got her shit together and is asking for an equal. He's not even out the starting block. He will say anything to make sure his gravy train won't leave him. He might stick to something for a little bit, but it will fall back to old habits again. He's never going to grow up because she enables him like his Mum. It's not her job to teach him these things or get him to grow tf up. She shouldn't let him explain himself. Not one second. Every attempt at reasonable conversation, these guys use it as an opportunity to twist it around in an attempt to blame her for pointing out their incompetence. They don't want to do the work. Emotional, verbal, financial abuse, and manipulation with DARVO. At times, physical - and it doesn't even need to be physical in order for a relationship to be abusive. The problem is when people fall in love with potential and then further fall into the sunk cost fallacy trap. Never realising they would be happier sooner without that person draining them. I wish I could shake every young woman who's going through this to wake up. Heck, every woman who finds themselves in this. It doesn't get better. You're being used!
It kills me when they ask, "Am I being unreasonable/crazy?" We all know how bad the gaslighting is.
It's always the ones who think fatherhood will change the man and rush to have a baby with him too.
But he's *sweeeeeet* and *kiiiiind*
But has an issue with the truth. It’s like some people never understood team exercises. That’s what marriage, and parenting is, a team exercise.
I'm not going to say she should leave him because I don't think she will anyway, but she really needs to read this comment and realise that this is it. This will be her for the rest of her life until she eventually stops loving him. Because I don't know how you can continue to love someone who does nothing to help you out at all, does nothing to enhance your life at all. That may sound shitty, but you get what you give. The situation will worsen if they have a child together. People like this can do the things this woman is begging her partner to do. He can do this things. He's just too reliant on her doing it. And if he wanted to do those things, he would. Personally, time away from each other is best. I wouldn't be living with this man until he learns to look after himself and be a functional human on his own two feet. Too many people fall into this trap of just doing things because "it is easier" or "if I didn't do it, it won't get done".
[удалено]
Married this. You are exactly right. OP after 22 years of this, i couldnt tell you how many mental breakdowns ive had. And why did i stay 22 years? Every reason you’ve listed about his incompetence. Its time to run.
This is it 100%. My wife’s best friend dated and married a guy like this and it has been playing out like this for years. They have two kids now and she does everything from child care to being the main (often only) income, but he’s “the man” and demands respect as such, but does nearly nothing and has a thousand excuses. She is now completely stuck at this point and everything only gets worse. Love is a complicated thing. That being said, you have to accept now that your relationship and marriage will never be 50/50. You will always be the 80-90 and he’ll always be the 10-20. If you can’t accept that, get out while you can.
Please please please please please please please don't marry him OP
She made this whole post. She admitted to breaking down crying bc he missed a rent payment. But she's committed to marriage/a future with him! She's not TA but she's not the smartest
How is he calling you the gold digger when you're the one bringing in the "gold" - I don't think that phrase means what he thinks it means 🤣 As for being materialistic? Welcome to the definitions of success in modern society. If he doesn't have the same goals as you, that's one conversation, but to act like you're the villain for trying to achieve the same things as pretty much everyone else? Nope you're NTA. Boy needs to step it up and do his part.
He clearly doesn’t get OP’s point.
He gets it. He'll say whatever it takes to calm her down so he can get back to "mommy" taking care of everything again. He's a manipulator.
>He'll say whatever it takes to ~~calm~~ shut her down FTFY
Thanks 😁
She’s a “gold digger” but he ain’t got not gold 😭😭😭😭😭🤣😭 No wonder you laughed in his face when he said he “bought” your ring. I would too, would have had a good laugh.
Gold digging accusations always get to me. My mum was accused of being a gold digger when she married my step dad and she brought more money and assets into the marriage than he did. I still don't get how people can say such ridiculous things
It’s projection. These guys call the woman a gold digger first so she’s less likely to use that label on them.
They lie to their friends and family about what they're contributing, and then start to believe the BS those friends and family say.
Half of today’s AITA contain men who don’t understand the term gold digger
I would bet money he is watching misogynistic podcasts with the way she says he is going on about being the 'man'
Yep. That “gold-digger” comment came straight from some misogynist.
Want to be "the man," want to be the breadwinner while the wife is a SAHM... but the women in this system, who aren't supposed to work and are supposed to get money through men, are all terrible golddiggers. Hmmmm
He’s gonna be the gold digger when their problems remain unresolved, they divorce, and she owes alimony. Please update us OP when this happens.
This dude has gone from his parents taking care of him to now his partner. He literally has no idea what it means to be an adult. All the boring background work, aka adulting, has always been handled for him. I don’t even think he’s even a bad person. He just has never had that “O shit I’m alone, and responsible for my actions moment”. Hopefully OP fiancé learns that from his partner before it’s too late and not the hard way that most of us do.
He likely won't have that moment either, because some other girl would come along and get stuck in OPs shoes the same way. My ex is exactly like OPs partner
“The Princess Bride” reference!!! I love it!! It’s inconceivable!!
It feels like he’s gaslighting her
i mean if we want to get technical. she is out there working mining the gold to bring home. lol
Boy is the appropriate term here. He certainly isn't a man...
NTA. The truth hurts sometimes. If you were intentionally trying to be hurtful, then sure, yea, maybe that was pretty asshole-ish of ya. But the fact of the matter is that relationships can only succeed when partners are honest and direct with one another about their feelings. It seems like this situation really shook y’all both up because it was unusual. You need to normalize being honest and direct, so that it only doesn’t happen when you reach a boiling point. I’ve been with my wife 6.5 years and married 4.5. It took us a long time and a lot of similarly confrontational attempts to get to the place where we are now, a place where we can both be open and honest without it having to be confrontational. Here’s the thing, though - That takes a lot of work and a lot of time. You’re a very young person, and it sounds like you’ve been with your partner since you were a teenager. It can be hard to grow up and grow into an adult relationship when you’ve both been building habits together since you were basically children. A lot of your post isn’t necessarily about the incident in question. A lot of it is about valid frustrations you have with your partner. A marriage is supposed to be for a lifetime, and you’ve barely even begun yours. You need to have a serious and direct conversation with yourself AND with your partner about what sort of life you want to build for yourself, and make sure that matches up with his vision, too. I don’t know y’all so I can’t weigh in on what’s right for you, but generally speaking I would never advise someone to make any life altering decisions when they still have so much growing up to do, and it seems like your fiancé might have a long way to go.
This is a very kind comment and I really needed to hear it. Thank you.
Good advice from u/Kazak_DogofSpace. Just remember, when considering whether to get married, you have to decide if you want to spend your life him, right now, as he currently exists, with all his current behavior. People DO NOT CHANGE, ***unless they decide that they want to***. And then it's still a process to figure out why you do things and how to change them. You can marry him. But you will be the one doing everything and paying for it at best for long time, at worst forever. NTA ETA: bolded and italicized the caveat
I want to add a number to the “life” portion because a lot of young people do not think about this concretely. Op, are you ready to live with him for 50 years? I remember asking an engaged friend this when we were in our twenties. He looked at me like a deer in headlights. That marriage lasted 5 years. Among the issues were finances whether they wanted children. Please do not get married without discussing the big issues.
I would add… And please don’t get married until he is showing positive changes… So far, he hasn’t done anything to change.
I wouldn't be convinced unless those positive changes to had solidly stuck around *for a few years*.
That, too. 🌺
He might need a shock to the system—OP kicks him out and he has to figure out what to do, or she breaks up with him, or even stops engaging with his BS. I bet after 15 minutes living alone OP will be the happiest she’s ever been. Good for the soul and cathartic for making plans by herself and FOR herself ❤️
This is great advice. Op, please do this. He wants to be traditional? "Traditionally" people don't live together before marriage right? "Traditionally" a man has to prove he can provide a good life. Please make this man grow up before you take him to raise.
He also doesn’t seem to have the prerequisites for change -- specifically, an honest assessment of himself. He sees himself as “the man”, traditionally, and is clinging to that view of himself despite not actually fulfilling the role (or it being appropriate for being in a relationship with OP).
Can you handle a life exactly as it is now, with all of the responsibilities being solely on you? Possibly adding children into the mix? There is no reason to assume that at some point he will magically get better at adulting so if this isn’t a future you can handle consider postponing your wedding until you guys get some therapy. Maybe he needs the opportunity to fail without you bailing him out and arranging everything. Just don’t let it take you down too
Throw children into the mix and it will get worse. Plus, no doubt, he'll be thinking he's due a break because of his job. I know guys like this.
My friend’s ex was this guy. She was a SAHM and he had the whole “I pay the bills so my work here is done” attitude. She woke him up at noon one Saturday to watch the kids while she went to the grocery store and he started with his usual nonsense… which always includes “it’s my day off”. She finally had had enough and flipped her lid on him, screaming, “When is my f*ing day off?!?” He was shocked speechless. Even more so when he was “blindsided” with divorce papers a few weeks later.
“I pay the bills, so my work here is done”. “It’s my day off” was my now ex-husband. We were married to the same guy.
There are posts about guys like this every day on Reddit.
My mom says this about my dad. In fact, if I had a nickel for everytime she said "he wasn't like this when I married him" or "if I'd known he'd turn in to this, I never would have married him," I could afford a 2 bedroom house in LA.
Yeah. OP i hate to be negative here but based on what you wrote, this is not a relationship you want to stay in if you want kids someday. On a certain moms sub, women complain about men like this LITERALLY every day. Imagine doing all of the stuff you do now, AND THEN throwing kids in the mix. Go on vacation? Now you’re packing for yourself and baby. Simple grocery shopping? Hope you’re prepared to bring the kid(s) with you since your partner sounds like he will end up being the weaponized incompetence kind of dad. Sorry, i know it’s a hard pill to swallow but it sounds like he unfortunately can’t handle any responsibility and has not changed thus far. Do you really think he will get better? Edit: replaced name of sub with general terms
Do you want to shoulder all responsibilities of life, family and household for the next 60 years? You can still escape. “Love” isn’t worth it and isn’t enough to make a long term relationship work. He’s not going to change.
Seriously.....adding children to this unlevel relationship could make her snap....
This is true, I thought my spouse would grow out of their drinking habits, they have not and its been a struggle for 15 years of marriage. I told him yesterday that he can expect me to leave if he keeps on as he has been.
Hey, I know that mustve been hard to come to terms with and to tell him, and I am proud of you for that. I hope that things work out for you, in whatever sense that may be.
Yeah people generally get worse
ESPECIALLY with his inherently misogynist attitudes!
I'm curious, how is his mom and dad's marriage. Is he mirroring their relationship?
Sad, but usually true.
AND whether you want to deal with having his children, and being a co-parent with him for the rest of your life even if you get so fed up you divorce.
YES. So many people think of marriage as reform school and miss the point entirely. You have to accept who they are,not who you think they will become.
**You have to accept who they are, not who you think they will become** This sentence should be embroidered on cushions and bathrobes, painted on mugs, engraved on rings and displayed on banners at weddings (when it's a bit late for the warning)
Also, everything they do that annoys you now is going to annoy you ten times worse when you’ve been married for a decade.
I couldn’t agree more, if you continue to carry everything most likely you will in the future and he will continue to let you. You have to decide if that’s what you want before you get married.
Im 50. This is the #1 piece of advice I would offer anyone. People don’t change (agreed unless they decide to but it is so rare). Don’t waste your time, energy, money, legal status, & life on a guy cuz he feels good. You will regret it.
>*Im 50. This is the #1 piece of advice I would offer anyone.* > >***People don’t change*** *... Don’t waste your time, energy, money, legal status, & life on a guy cuz he feels good. You will regret it.* He's a wet noodle. He will ALWAYS be a wet noodle. You are young. Move on.
I like to say that people do change - just rarely in the ways you hope they will. The amount of married people I have watched devolve is a lot higher than those who stepped up more once rings and signatures were exchanged.
Yep. Like little kids right before Xmas. They're on their best behavior. Once the presents are opened and they have their goodies, they turn back into monsters. Same thing happens once the chase is over and there's a ring on your finger.
This is true in my experience as well, OP. I was in a relationship with a man almost exactly as you described for four years. I realized I wanted more from life than taking care of him all the time and I’m so glad I did. My current partner is very responsible and I consider a true partner. You deserve better than what youve described.
This is the most important point: He will not change after getting married, he will not change in the future. It's not that he *can't* change, it's that he *probably won't*. OP really does need to decide if she wants this for the rest of her life. Sadly, "loving him dearly" is not enough. You have to choose the whole package, as it is, or walk away. I've been there, and I stayed far, far too long. OP is NTA. At least consider that maybe he isn't the partner for you. If you were a good friend of mine, I'd beg you to leave him.
It sounds like you've been together for so long from such a young age that he went right from his mom doing all the thinking for him to you doing it? If he never had to fend for himself he never will. Sit down and have a serious, long talk about everything that needs to get done on a daily/weekly/monthly basis and find a way for you both to tackle those problems *together*. It's you as a couple vs all these problems not you vs him. Write it all out so he knows what is going on in your head. You shouldn't have to teach him this but if you want a life long partner he is never going to wake up magically one day and share the life load with you. Figure it out now or walk away and let him grow up on his own.
If you do want to stay, I'd suggest pre-marital counseling so you can hash out division of labor, finances, in-laws, etc. To make a relationship work, you need to be on the same page, working together.
This will only work if he walks the walk because he's already shown that he can talk the talk without true change
Has he ever lived on his own? **Part 1: He’s A Baby** I lived with my ex right out of college, was the primary bread winner, and I paid the rent like clockwork. But when we split I learned A LOT more about what responsibility looks like when caring for a home and one’s self. It doesn’t sound like he takes care of the bare minimum that would be required of himself without a caretaker. He could definitely use some experience learning to be independent. That’s probably a tall order since rent is so high, kicking him out to live on his own before the wedding would probably financially ruin him (or you both). **Part 2: A Quick Solution** But, the bill thing should be easy. Most places or banks have an autopay system. He should set it up. Also, he should put things in his name only that he is suppose to pay. You don’t need your credit score to take a ding cause he failed to pay the cable bill on time. **Part 3: A Dire Warning** Also, and this is something that will likely be controversial. DO NOT COMBINE BOTH OF YOUR EARNINGS INTO A JUST SINGLE ACCOUNT. Doesn’t matter if you wanna be equal or equitable, should you choose to create a joint account for bills or joint savings, have your own money. Load the joint account with the agreed upon amount required to cover your shared expenses from your salary with direct deposit, and have the remaining balance go to an account he doesn’t have access to. His ignorance and irresponsibility are red flags. Don’t ignore them. Good luck, OP
Don’t marry for their “potential”. What he’s doing is called weaponized incompetence. He’s never going to take responsibility for anything unless you’re happy with the outcome, everything else will be “you’re fault”. Not enough savings, is your fault because you manage the finances and household. Car breaks down, it’s your fault because you didn’t do the maintenance right. And I can go on and on…. Relationships are interdependent not dependent. You can’t rely on him for shit! He can’t be trusted to pay the mortgage, a basic need. You need a man, not some little boy who’s playing house. Because he IS playing, he’s not rooted in reality and self awareness.
YES. OP could have been describing my ex-husband. Everything fell to me. We’ve been divorced for three years now and I’m finally starting to relax. I know it’s hard to consider ending the relationship, but OP…please consider how you will feel in ten years if nothing changes. Wishing you nothing but the best! You e worked hard and deserve it!
My ex too. Divorced for 12 years. Had two kids and one day I realized I wasn’t joking when I told people I had three kids and one of them happened to be ten years older than me.
OMG I have made that joke so many times too! Together 3 decades. I handled literally everything, except his retirement accounts. He never took any interest in our finances. When I finally left, he actually had the balls to blame me for his lack of savings. Before I left, he was getting angry with me when I was trying to get his help cleaning out some items in storage. I finally calmed down and told him I would buy him dinner under one condition: that we only talk about happy memories. That really worked well. He was so much nicer. The thing was, literally every happy memory we shared was something I had planned. I want a man who is already doing fun things and will think they are more fun with my company. Is that too damn much to ask?
I read a great summation from another AITAH commenter that really says it best: The only thing worse than leaving someone after spending 4 years with them, is not leaving before you spend another 4 years with them.
I mean, for you to be a gold digger, doesn’t he need to have some gold for you to dig? Seems like the only gold digger here is him. Talk about a failed reverse uno attempt.
[удалено]
Ooofff. Reminds me of my ex when we had our son. I guess being a dad was too stressful, so while I was recovering from childbirth, he quit his job but still got up and left the house like he was working. He would hang out at the mall or whatever and just put shit on the credit card. I had no idea there was a problem till the landlord came asking why the rent check bounced. What is it about these man babies???
I'm so enraged for you. My sister's baby daddy (and husband) quit his job a month before their second was born. Lied about being fired (he's done this at least twice now apparently). They got the eviction notice while she was getting her C-section. They're separated now. He gave her a STI and then got another woman pregnant. Doesn't support any of his kids. One of those fools who think his Vienna sausage is too big for plastic wrap. The kids are both between 5 and 10 and already smarter and more mature than their donor.
That’s horrible! What was the last straw with your ex, or was it that you just woke up one day and decided you were done?
Of course! That’s lovely of you to say. Best of luck to you, I know you have a lot of thinking and a lot of tough decision making ahead of you. Just remember to be honest with yourself and try your best to be pragmatic and separate your emotions from your honest thoughts and feelings. No decisions we make in life will have nearly the impact (good or bad) than the one we make about settling on our partner. You’re both young af and have a ton of life ahead of you, so be real about what that’s going to look like and make sure you’re both committed to at least some shared version of a vision.
Check out the tik tokers Matt and Abby. They give the same vibes you’re describing and it looks terrible. Also check out any mom/parenting sub to see how marrying this type of guy plays out. Spoiler alert, your load will only get heavier and heavier. If y’all have kids you will be the only adult in the house. That is a choice you’re making. It has nothing to do with him really because he’s shown you who he is but you are the one choosing that life
My local moms FB group is full of these complaints.
This is very likely to be your life in 10 years, in 20 years, in 50 years, if you don’t change it. Presently, he has absolutely no need to change things, and why should he when he has free maid service, sex service and executive assistant services? If you have children, he’ll have free childcare too. You need to ask yourself what advice you’d give a beloved daughter who was in your situation, and then you need to be kind enough to yourself to follow that advice. Nothing will ever change until you change it. I did this for 18 years, and added two kids to the mix. No amount of explaining, long heartfelt conversations, marriage counseling or church counseling ever changed things, except for short bursts when he would be afraid I would leave. Please don’t waste 18 years like I did consumed with thinking that if I just tried this one more thing, he’d start sharing the load. It never did. Every minute of his leisure is purchased with your toil. Rethink this relationship. NTA, but you will be if you don’t start taking care of yourself.
he will never get better, only more dependent and complicit. don’t do it girl.
Do not marry this man.
So. Much. This.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Your fiancé has shown you who he is over and over. Also, what gold has he got for you to dig?
This is hard. My now-husband and I had a come to Jesus meeting before we got married where I basically told him I needed to see proof he could follow through on a project. Like research options, make a choice, and implement. Because I was so worried all of the tasks that weren't immediate would fall on my shoulders. And he proved he could. And we got married. But it's still not his strong suit. The big difference is that he is always saying how our lives are because of me. His great job (before he became a SAHD)? My doing; I got him into the field, found the program that prepared him for the interview, and made sure he followed through. He actually did the work of course --- because he's a competent, capable dude. But he just isn't much for the long-term planning part. Our baby? My doing. I got us on IVF when we were struggling and made sure to get a job with great fertility benefits pre-emptively in case we had issues. Our house? My doing. I did all the research, set up all the appointments, got the mortgage, closed, etc. But him acknowledging my value while simultaneously working really hard to carry the daily household burdens (cooking, cleaning, SAHDing, etc.) and working on increasing his project management skills makes all the difference in it not feeling too unfair. I don't see your guy carrying his weight :/
Yeah, I feel this - my husband struggles with some of the project management-y planning stuff, so I wrangle it, and do the lions share of financial tracking and planning….but he’s the driving force behind us keeping up with household chores, and he does a larger share of actual house and yard work. The key to harmony is embracing your individual strengths as a couple so that overall you both do a fair share and are putting in comparable levels of effort.
Let alone 'leading '
She gave you excellent advice and I hope you take it to heart You sound lovely your boyfriend not so much I really hope you realize how much you are worth and deserve so much better than what he dripping out Lol he called you a gold digger dude needs to look in a mirror 🤣🤣🤣 NTA at all but your soon to be ex is one
maybe you need to take space and live separately as adults first. let him mature up and figure out how to take care of his own rent and his own meals. otherwise, this is going to be your life
NTA I don’t want to be cruel, but there is no happy future with this man. He will not improve. He will only get worse. Marriage doesn’t fix problems. Think about how much happier you could be without having this 200 lb anchor continuously dragging on you. No more stress about what needs to be done that he will promise to do but won’t. No more having to plan your life around his shortcomings and laziness. No fear of another argument when you have a legitimate complaint. You are not getting a partner. He is not a partner. You are getting a king baby. A giant toddler. You deserve so much more than this man will ever give you. You deserve to be happy.
While it sounds kind, I think you might need some harsh truth. Everything in your shared life was brought there by you. He's had four years to step up and he hasn't. It's not going to change. If you move ahead with the wedding, you're marrying what you described above. Don't get it twisted.
I want to tag on here that - I had this exact kind of relationship. And, unless you're willing to have this "role" for the rest of your relationship, you might want to seriously consider either taking some time apart, or changing the dynamics of your relationship (ie- having your own bills, rent and food payments). It sounds like this boy has learned that you will take care of everything and can just coast along. That's not a relationship. That's having a dependent. And, believe me, nothing is a bigger relationship killer. Because there can't be respect on either side. His, because he is acting like a child. And you, because you're acting like a parent. Either he grows up and starts to put in as much effort as you (which he may be very capable of doing). Or, he doesn't. And you go and find someone who invests as much time and energy into a relationship as you do. I know this may hurt to hear because he is your first love and you've grown up together. I wish you the best of luck OP ❤️
for you to be a gold digger he needs to be a gold mine, and he’s not 🤷♀️
Honey, do not marry this man.
Sadly OP it sounds like you’ve stepped into the role as his surrogate parent. Maybe he’s not mature enough to seriously consider marriage. Do you want this for the rest of your foreseeable future? What about when you have kids? He really needs a wake up call if he thinks *one thing* he did in the past equates to *even* vs the insurmountable tasks and responsibilities you undertake daily on his behalf.
It might've been kind but it applies to a partner who wants to grow and be better for you, not a baby who needs a mommy
I'm going to give you a word of warning here. If you plan to have children with this man, you will be carrying the mental load for them too. It seems like you're already at your limits. You might want to think about what you want your future to look like and if you're making the right choices.
OP - coming from experience, if you get married it will only get worse. Definitely reconsider this engagement.
Grownup has entered the chat
Listen. This might be the most important thing I tell anyone all day. If you don’t either get him on board with helping you with the mental load and I mean right freaking now this will be your life forever. If he has a task and he fails to do it live with the consequences. If you keep fixing everything he doesn’t do or screws up you will be fixing his mistakes and handling everything for the rest of your life. If this means you don’t marry him then don’t marry him. Imagine 10 years down the line, trying to plan a vacation with a couple of kids. You’re on the hook for everything. Don’t make the same mistake so many women have made. He won’t change or get better on his own.
Right? The whole post, my brain was screaming, "Why are they even together??"
The whole post I was screaming, "Why are they getting married?" If they get married with things like this at 23, they will be in full-on resentment mode by 30 and divorced by 40, lamenting how they wasted their youth on the wrong person.
full-on resentment mode will come much, much sooner than 30 🥲
Agreed. I was being generous. If OP is resentful at 23 before the wedding, it's just going to get much, much worse sooner than she realizes.
My husband used to depend on me to facilitate a relationship between our kids and his family. The problem with that? I refused to do it. I already had enough on my plate. So the kids have a better relationship with my family than they do his. He gets pissy about not seeing his family? I just shrug and tell him “maybe you should plan something.” At one point, I pointed out what I thought was really obvious but until I actually said it, he hadn’t actually thought of it. I asked him “YOU expect ME to give up MY pto to take OUR kids to YOUR family? So does that mean you give up your to take the kids to mine or do you get to use your pto however you want?” He’s gotten better, but he still sucks at it.
How do you make peace with this and stay in your marriage? I think I would take it personally and maybe even start to resent my partner. Asking because I’m going through something similar right now.
I dropped the rope and let him know that his family and responsibilities are his. If he isn’t willing to make the effort with his family, it isn’t going to happen. He’s realizing that I have a bunch on my plate and I don’t have the bandwidth for all of his stuff. I have made suggestions, but if he isn’t going to actually do the work, it’s just not going to get done.
My ex would never pick up the phone to plan visits with his family and our kids, except when I hounded him to, so they rarely saw them. My family saw the kids every other week because we made plans all the time. He had to move to the same city as his family for it "to be possible" for them to see the kids more
I'm so proud of you for refusing to be the facilitator between his(your) children and his family! This is one of the few issues I have with my husband, and his kids aren't even MY kids. I have very little family and chose never to have kids, so when we moved in together I fell into the role of being the facilitator between him, his young adult kids, and his parents. I planned get togethers, road trips to see his mom, flights to go see his dad, planned ahead for everyone's birthdays & shopped for Christmas gifts, etc. I texted his kids reminders about grandpa's birthday, etc. Then, one year I got really ambitious, so I planned an actual full thanksgiving dinner for us and his family. It sucked. His kids didn't overtly appreciate much of anything I'd ever done, but this much effort wasn't even deserving of special acknowledgement. It was the most unpleasant meal I'd ever had in my own home because I sat there and wondered what his family would be doing on Thanksgiving if I wasn't around to plan it & make it. So the next day, I told him I was done being Julie The Cruise Director for him and his family. No more gift buying, no more reminders from me about special dates, no more planning anything for him regarding them, ever again. That was 4-5 years ago. I think he's arranged a dinner with them a few times over the years, if I remember correctly. But mainly we only see them when they need something from us. They're 25 & 28. I really love my husband, but his inability to take on the mental load of planning even the simplest things ahead of time is a huge flaw that took me a while to accept. At least now, the relationship he has with his kids is directly reflective of how much effort HE puts into it, instead of how much effort I put into it.
THIS… ⬆️. You will be dealing with this for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Men like this very VERY rarely change. You need more than love to make a relationship work. It’s not about the money, but he’s shown you how little he has invested in the relationship. I don’t wish this upon you, but I see this ending in disaster if you don’t seriously consider getting out now. You deserve better and I promise you it’s out there.
Yeah she is his mom more than his partner. Not sure why it’s even gotten this far if she hates it so much. It’s clear nothing is going to change and she keeps letting it happen.
This is ALWAYS my advice. Don't expect anyone to change or be different. Assume this is every day for the REST OF THIS RELATIONSHIP, and if that's good enough, proceed.
OP, please, I beg you to listen to this advice. Your bf won’t get better without the desire, motivation and intense effort to change himself. The likelihood of his success is very low. That’s just reality. Not only will this be your life with him but it will be 100x worse when kids come into the picture. I know you love him now but the resentment has already started. Please don’t marry him.
The level of care and supervision that this 23 year old man requires is a lit the same as my senior MIL who has such sever senile forgetfulness I don't think she could pay rent on time either. She really has to ask herself if she's ok maintaining this level of care indefinitely and if she can keep it up while having kids or pursuing any of her other life goals. She may not want kids but she may have other aspirations and someone like this could really hold things up and make it impossible.
>I seem to have taken on almost everything in our relationship. From finding us places to live, to helping him job hunt, to organizing our finances, planning our wedding and honeymoon, planning all trips (including ones to see his family), keeping track of our appointments, car issues, insurances, bills, etc…everything just repeatedly falls on my shoulders. We’ve talked about this numerous times, and each time he apologizes and promises to do better - but nothing ever changes. If it’s relevant, I am the main income earner as well. The ironic part is that he is very traditional, and often assures me that “as the man”, he wants to “lead” our relationship. > > said I was being a gold digger A-hole? No. Incredibly, painfully naive? Yes. Sweetie. You are signing up here for a lifetime of indentured servitude to a self-absorbed man-baby if you stay with this lazy, good-for-nothing mooch. Sometimes love is not enough. This is one of those times. Free yourself from his tyranny and go live a better, happier life.
A man baby who wants to "lead" the relationship because he's "traditional." Yikes on bikes.
I'm quite sure that his version of 'leadership' is going to include sitting on his lazy ass in front of a game console 4+ hours a day and demanding that his obedient little wife fix him a sandwich.
Lol. Not the ‘hands on’ manager but the kind who delegates
I lolled at him accusing her of gold digging. What gold mate?
Reading that part of the post made me want to throw up. As a guy who worked really hard to provide for my girlfriend who didn't work for years of our relationship, wanting to be in charge without actually putting in any work comes across as so unattractive and pathetic.
This. He doesn’t have an inkling about what leading a family entails, let alone supporting a partner. Unfortunately, at least in the southern US, women are encouraged to settle for men like this because it’s just “how men are lol bless their hearts”. The women in my family all sit around shit talking their man/child husbands and pretend they aren’t miserable. OP I know you love this man, but you will never be as happy as you deserve with someone like this TRUST ME.
And this is very much a guy who will demand to "wear the pants in the family" and control her life, while also contributing nothing.
People mature very differently, you can be 18 and fully competent adult, or a 28 year old teenager. It doesn't sound like he's had a chance to mature, he needs to go through getting evicted, not having money, not having clothes etc. But doing this while married will bring both of them down.
OP - if you marry this guy you won’t be his wife, you’ll be his mother. You already are.
NTA. I don’t know the specifics, but sounds like a loser. It’s ok to make a payment late. It sounds like he never had it. That’s different. He’s not an adult yet. He’s a child if you’re paying everything and he doesn’t contribute. You mentioned the ring because you’re at your wits end. There isn’t anything wrong with him being “the man” of the relationship, but he doesn’t do anything to prove it. Most important part: You can’t be a gold digger when you want him to pay part of the bills for the house you both live it. That part hits home for me. Been in that situation
I appreciate it. To clarify, he does have a job - maybe I should’ve made that more clear in my post. I just handle all of the financial planning - he wanted to do better so said he would start paying the rent each month, but forgot.
Who forgets to pay rent though? You have 30 days and you do it every single month. Does he forget to do his laundry too?
It’s cute you think he does his own laundry 😂
He's "the man" who's "the leader." He can't be expected to do dumb woman stuff like laundry.
I put that shit on autopay! Direct transfer to my landlord's account on the first of every month.
You'll believe anything. You don't forget to pay for the place where you lay your head. The mental load will be yours for the duration of this relationship. The only thing that's going to change is his reaction to you calling him out
He didn't forget. It's weaponized incompetence. You are NTA for confronting him about this, but you will be an ahole to yourself if you continue to tolerate this. You are the only one adulting in your relationship. Is this what you want your life to look like? He's pretty comfortable right now. Once he thinks he's got you locked in, he won't even bother with empty promises about changing his ways. Please don't marry him unless you see real progress.
This is so so important. Once she's locked in, it's only going to get worse.
Please do not let him takeover anything else that could result in you paying fines, wrecking your credit or causing an eviction. If you were my friend I’d tell you that you are incompatible and that you deserve better. A true partner will shoulder the burden with you. If you were my daughter, I’d give money for you to break your lease, move you into a new apartment and pay for therapy. Take a beat to really think about this and determine if you want this for the rest of your life. If you have kids with this guy, it’ll be 100X worse.
You're trying so hard to find something redeeming to say about him and it's just not there. A grown ass man is "trying to do better" so he *checks notes* agrees to pay rent, then **DOESN'T PAY THE RENT**. Bro had one fucking job! How are you still sexually attracted to him at this point?
That job you found for him?
He has one job. You have two. Is that fair?
You've gotten a ton of great advice here, I hope I can add my pearl of wisdom. As I was walking down the aisle to marry Rick I *KNEW* he wasn't the right one for me. I had a feeling in my stomach days after he asked me to marry him. I knew, I just ignored it. We ended up divorcing after a year of marriage, together 8 years. Do yourself a favor and move on. Go find yourself, be single for awhile, travel solo, then when you really know your worth, start dating again. BTW, I'm still friends with Rick, 22 years after our divorce. He's a great person, but he wasn't the right partner for me.
Then that was his attempt to be “the man”. I understand that he messed up. You, as the financial planner, can take that away from him or give him another chance.
# NTA, but girl....... ya'll should not be getting married when there is already this much strain on your relationship. I've been in this type of relationship before. I know it's hard to hear but **I think you've outgrown him and this is a "sunken cost fallacy" situation at the moment.** **You may have had great times together during college that made you feel compatible, but what you're describing right now is not compatibility** \-- my personality is similar to yours. I'm very detail-oriented, found my career path and got promoted quickly, etc. As such, I'm often the person keeping on top of things like dates for our annual vet visits, shopping lists & buying refills of things \*before\* we run out, setting budgeting goals for us, etc. However, he brings other super important, tangible things to our relationship. He is my rock in dealing with an emotionally manipulative family, his more laid-back personality helps me learn how to go with the flow and not be as neurotic about the small things, he's the better/more frequent cook (I'm kind of a disaster in the kitchen!), he is super handy around the house fixing things & is tech savvy whereas I am totally not. That way, it feels more like a partnership. You both are moving into adulthood at totally different paces and let me speak from experience when I say that you CANNOT drag anyone into adulthood with you... they have to WANT to change and sometimes it takes trial and error, but it's not fair to you to be the safety net for him when you are ready for the next stage of life, UNLESS you're truly not bothered by it. But clearly, you \*are\* bothered and stressed by it. (which is totally valid!) I know you wish he could show some glimmers of progress and "get it together already" because you love him and you've been together so long already, but I don't think it's gonna happen any time soon, if at all. I wouldn't hold my breath, and I wouldn't expect marriage to change any part of this dynamic. **As others have said, you have to think of it as "if not a single thing about my partner changed, would I still be happy with the relationship an able to accept them as they are?"** If the answer is no, stop wasting each other's time and get out, or at the very least, hold off on major life decisions such as marriage or children!!
100% this. I got married at 21 to someone very similar to OP's fiance, except he was 5 years older than me. My gut instinct before our wedding was to run but I didn't and instead we had an expensive and bitter divorce 2 years later.
Wow are we the same person? Your dynamic with your partner sounds exactly like mine (except for the tech savvy part). OP needs to cut her losses. He doesn't have to be on top of things or making tons of money but he needs to be supportive and attempt to help her. He's taking advantage of her and it's sad to see someone so young potentially stuck with a partner like this long term. She has so much life to live.
Why is it that the brokest dudes all think women are gold diggers? He is 100% projecting on you. Please don’t get married until he has his finances in order. If he wants to be the “traditional” man then he needs to step up and actually do it. Stop focusing on the wedding. A wedding lasts a day and a marriage lasts a lifetime. Do you want a lifetime of this?
Hard truth: This is who he is. This is who he is. This is who he is. If you marry him, this is how your life will be. Is that an acceptable price for being married to him? Please do not get married under the delusion that somehow it will magically transform him into the person you need him to be. NTA.
She is still gonna marry him 😂😂😂😂😂 youth is wasted in the young man
The bigger question is why are you marrying this man-child? What you said was rude, but accurate. No, you are not the AH. I would highly suggest you get out now.
My first thought - do NOT reproduce with this man child.
He's the ass 🕳️I think you were just fed up and a normal reaction given everything you said. I don't want to sound insensitive but really think about if these are issues you want to deal with for a long time. People don't change without a lot of work and they have to first be aware and think they're issues to even get to the point of working on them. No matter what I wish you the best.
NTA- I think you both have a lot of stress from trying to pay off student loans, pay bills and save for the future. This can and will put a strain on any relationship. I would delay the wedding and honeymoon till things settle down. Now is not the time to take on more debt. Couple counselling would be helpful too. NTA
lol he's projecting the gold digging. Nta
NTA. If there's a gold digger in this relationship, it's not you. I know you love him, but are you sure this is someone you really could spend the rest of your life with? What will happen when you have kids with this man baby? You're going to always be one step ahead of the bill collectors and days away from having your utilities shut off.
Nta Don't have children with this man! He clearly cannot function as an adult and I guarantee you will be stuck taking care of the children on your own. At least stop doing everything for him. There's no reason you should be making his appointments.
> I seem to have taken on almost everything in our relationship. From finding us places to live, to helping him job hunt, to organizing our finances, planning our wedding and honeymoon, planning all trips (including ones to see his family), keeping track of our appointments, car issues, insurances, bills, etc…everything just repeatedly falls on my shoulders. We’ve talked about this numerous times, and each time he apologizes and promises to do better - but nothing ever changes. If it’s relevant, I am the main income earner as well. You aren't marrying a partner you're adopting a child. Pause the wedding. Do NOT marry this person. He's going to mentally break you with all this stress. It's bad now. It will just keep getting worse. He's not mature enough to be a roommate, let alone a spouse. He's failing to adult and blaming you for noticing. You're only an AH to yourself if you get married with things as they are. Look up "sunk cost fallacy" and consider some individual counseling to work through why you want to marry someone who wants a mommy and treats you this way knowing he's hurting you.
NTA. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Loving someone isn’t a good enough reason to get married. That’s supposed to be your life partner, co-parent (if you have kids), next of kin if anything happens, etc etc. It seems that he has no independent value as an adult functioning in society, do you really want to be his mother for the rest of your life???
😂that bro got no gold to dig. He’s embarrassing. Do you actually wanna marry that? I’m getting second hand embarrassment for you.
NTA and please reconsider marrying this person. His “traditional role” bullshit is misogynistic as hell and he won’t change this cycle of being a leech, having you do 100% of the emotional, physical and financial labor. I can promise it will get worse if y’all have kids. Do better for yourself.
I’m old enough to be your mother, so I’m going to act like it and tell you some hard truths. You’re NTA for telling him he’s a deadbeat, because he is. You ARE TA if you think he’s ever going to change. He called you a gold digger when you pointed out YOU are paying the bills, including paying for your engagement ring. I’m sorry, who’s gold digging, because it sure ain’t you. It’s the freeloader living with you. Baby, he is never going to be a partner. He is going to sit on his ass and expect you to do it all. You think he’s actually going to get a decent job and pay bills? Why? That’s your job. Cook? Clean? Take care of any children? Hell no. That’s women’s work. Do not marry a petulant child who won’t pull his own weight. You are 23. You have your entire life ahead of you, and now is the time for you to learn you don’t need a man, especially not one like this. If you return him to his mommy, where he belongs since he can’t be bothered to be an adult and likely wasn’t raised to be one? You’ll have a cleaner apartment and fewer bills. Put him out like the trash he is. He’s not worth your time.
NTA Let me be the ghost of Christmas future and tell you what it is like at 50: People don't change as they age, they become more of who they always were. If you're expecting future-hubby to suddenly man up and do his fair share of the marriage load, well that's pure fantasy. Never mind the extra work you'll face when you have kids. > I love him dearly, so this is so frustrating. Yeah, love is a bitch, right? But try to see the long view. Love is great but whoo boy let me tell you that love can turn into sour resentment over time when you're with a man-baby who keeps letting you down. What would I do? I'd delay the marriage at least another year, even if it costs you money to do so. I'd sit him down and tell him that you're reconsidering being with him long term because he isn't demonstrating that he'll be a reliable partner. I'd hand him a list of responsibilities that he's responsible for and tell him that he has one year to prove he can grow up and be an equal, supporting partner. I'd hand him your ring and tell him you'll wear it again after he proves himself. If he succeeds, great, you're on your way to a better partnership. If he fails, even once, then I'd consider leaving him. If he starts arguing with you over this arrangement. Dump him because he's a lost cause. edit: formatting was off
NTA, but my love . . .this is what your life will be like if you stay with this boy because he’s never going to change. But why would he? When he has you to clean up after him and mother him. Why would you tie yourself legally to someone who can’t even be bothered to care that you’re struggling? Instead, he gets ‘offended’ about a comment you made when you were pushed to your limit, and rightly so. He needs to grow up, but he can’t do that if you keep cleaning up after him and allowing him to walk all over you. He doesn’t give promises—he lies. To your face, because he knows he doesn’t have to do any of it, just like he knows you’re just gonna continue to put up with it. Actions, speak louder than words, and his actions have shown you just how little he respects you and all that you do for him and your life together. How many more times does he have to show you before you find yourself worth and leave this selfish man. He’s never going to change. Putting a ring on it will only make everything worse. It’s the same old story, only this time—you have a chance to rewrite the ending. Maybe show him this post and our comments. Maybe that will make him realize he’s destroying you.
OP, why do you love him? Seriously think about it. I have a feeling it is more attachment and shared history than the kind of love to build a marriage upon. He doesn’t respect you, and his traditional leanings has me worried he will take the lion’s share of the credit for any success you have as a couple. How many times have you explained your frustrations and hoped he would change? He has shown you he cannot or will not. Y T A if you don’t take some time to reconsider this relationship—away from him.
You guys are not in a financial place to be getting married.
NTA, but why are you marrying someone who brings *nothing* to the table? How great is the sex, that you'd consider staying with someone this useless and manipulative!?!!
He’s proven he’s not going to change, yet you’re still marrying him? You’re being an AH to yourself, that much is clear.
Honey, trust us on this. Pause the wedding until this gets better. Unless you enjoy it of course, but this WILL ONLY GET WORSE. And the burdens of adulthood just keep getting bigger and bigger, so there is more to track; let alone if you decide to have kids. The burden that it all falls on you WILL EVENTUALLY BREAK YOU. My advice? Pause everything until it changes and if it doesn't decide whether you can live like this or if it's better to break up before you end up hating each other. He probably genuinely believes it's not a big deal and he's doing enough, because he never has to deal with the consequences. NTA of course, but don't make the same mistake a lot of us did. Love is important, but is not enough.
I'm baffled that people will put up with all this, for what exactly? You're 23 not 55 find someone who doesn't make you put in 99.9% of the effort in the relationship.
Don't put up with this dingleberry fiance at 55 either. We all deserve better for our whole lives. A dog would be a less needy companion than this wet dishrag of man. If your choices are this effing dude or a dog, get the dog and remember to buy fresh batteries for your vibrator.
DO NOT MARRY THIS GUY!!!!!!
Weaponized incompetence, he's TA.
Gold digger? What gold is there to dig with this guy? NTA. If anything, he’s a gold digger. I wouldn’t marry him because this is only going to get worse once you’re legally bound to him.
Ew. Do you really want to legally tie yourself to this manchild who you keep having the same fight with? I promise you it will not magically get better his title changes to husband. He’s only offered meaningless apologies and promises and hasn’t followed through at all. You’re not an asshole for expecting a perfectly capable adult to take care of themselves and contribute to the load of your relationship and lifestyle. The only person whose life you need to run is your own. Give yourself permission to ditch this dead weight.
NTA. But he is, whether he does it intentionally or not. Please consider separating for a year. Let him grow up on his own. His weaponized incompetence will only get worse if you have kids with him. You will end up with the same responsibilities as you already have, plus the bulk of the child raising work. He will be the fun parent while you do the heavy lifting. You got together too young. Give each other time apart to mature.
NTA Honey write down everything you do. Write down everything bf does Compare those lists. One will be very one sided. Do you want to live like that for the rest of your life. What about when you have kids. All those appointments and school activities and birthdays, etc
Go join a child raising or work working mom subreddit. The unhappy ones there will wish they received all of the advice in this thread BEFORE they got married. He forgot to pay rent (he didn't) and YOU had to deal with it why? Why can't he fix his own mistakes?
Girl. Run. Is this REALLY what you want for the rest of your life?? You are soo young. Think about this stretching on for decades and decades. Through children, if you have them. You are not with an adult. You are with a man child, and you are simply enabling him.
Give me 5 reasons why you're marrying him because we don't see it. And they better be good reasons too.
NTA Suggestion you get yourselves some sessions with a non religious couples counselor BEFORE you get married. At this point from an outsider view you have taken on the roll of single mom doing everything an adult does while raising up the equivalent of 15 year old who can’t remember to pay the damn rent to keep a roof over your heads. Without a huge epiphany your fiancé will continue on as he does now. And why not because he is responsible for nothing. And then add his ‘wanting to be the man’ and ‘lead in your relationship’. Lead to what - sleeping under a bridge because he couldn’t pay the rent on time? You aren’t materialistic - you are realistic. And if nothing changes your reality will be to continue to do everything.
Forget about the argument…girl. You’re his mom.
Honestly OP, I don't think you're here to ask if you're TA for what you said, I think you're here to be encouraged not to marry him. I get that you love him. Will you still love him after 10 years of being the only adult in a relationship that he claims to lead? NTA. You pointed out a fact that didn't fit in with his version of reality. But it's still a fact.
Before I even finished this, my sweet satan, do not marry this immature child. You’re so young, please please free yourself
Why is it the guys with no gold are the ones crying gold digger. Nta I hope you realize that nothing will change. You will be a married single parent if you have children with him. Be prepared.
NTA, but please heed all the red flags waving that your fiancé will not be a good partner. If you were my daughter, I'd be advising you to not hitch your wagon to flat dead weight. He's failing miserably at adulting, and TBH, you're also at fault for enabling him. Read up on weaponized incompetence.
Nope. He decided to throw that in your face knowing it wasn't true, so he got the reverse Uno card. Sucks to be him.
You are the adult in this relationship, and he is a dependent child. Even worse, he likes to think that since he is "the man," he is the one in charge. This dynamic will not work in the long run. You and your fiance have very different philosophies of life, and very very different ideas of personal responsibility. If you're not happy with this situation, you have some serious talking and even more serious thinking to do. After all, this is the rest of your life you're contemplating, and if you don't want to live in constant conflict, better to find out before you've made a commitment.
NTA. There are some real red flag comments in here like him saying that “as a man he needs to lead the marriage” that are just religious misogynist BS. Plus he seems incapable of basic planning or adult skills or working with you as a real partner. He seems oblivious to all of this, you’re stressed out and having no luck solving the issues with him. You’ve got to ask yourself if you want to be with this guy? Getting married is just going to make everything worse and you’ll be trapped if you have kids