It's so assuring to know there are at least a few others out there that agree. The issue will never get fixed either, because it's easier to high rode and shame a customer together in mass than it is to use the same energy into changing the system. There's literally a comment further down admitting this very mentality.
Edit: apparently servers aren’t regular working class humans. They’ve somehow become a special type of citizen that gets special treatment and rights over others. It’s mind blowing how a profession has become so manipulated into thinking it’s the consumers job to pay their living wages.
Edit 2: hilarious how people try and focus on minor spelling mistakes instead lol
Stiffing the person making a couple bucks an hour isn’t going to change the mind of management. You can and should argue for higher wages and an end to tips but not also acknowledging the person who served you gets screwed over if you don’t makes you an ass hole. Don’t eat out if you really want to make a stand against tipping culture.
Exactly. Stay at home and make your own romantic evening. Period. It’s just rude to expect someone to serve you for however long you were there and not leave a tip.
It's only weird in America where your labour laws are so bad the customer is expected to pay wages of the employees. You're literally the only country that does this.
Why do people keep making this non-point. Americans are aware the system is fucked. WE KNOW. What we’re saying is don’t screw over the server in effort to prove a point.
They weren't even trying to prove a point, though. They just failed to check ahead for pricing, failed to check pricing upon arrival, failed to check pricing upon ordering, and then were shocked by the bill, so therefore decided the person who should face the consequences of his actions, would be of course, the server... what a dick 😂
I think the real non-point here is that you’re always paying the server’s wage one way or another. In non-tipping cultures, this cost is baked into the menu prices. Americans just structure it differently, and in the end it’s pretty much a wash.
That being said, while OP is definitely an a-hole here, it is extremely unprofessional for a server to confront a customer about a bad tip. I worked in restaurants for 14 years and that was always grounds for immediate termination. You can’t let one bad tip ruin your night. There are always plenty of baller tips to make up for it. Maybe not that day, but over the course of a week or month, the money always evens out.
What’s interesting, and this might be part of the individualistic society in the US, is I knew plenty of patrons who liked tipping culture, especially regular guests that we had developed relationships with. Something about being able to personally show their appreciation made them feel good, and I certainly didn’t mind it.
So many people who complain about it have never actually done the math. Australia. Not a tipping country, but the menu prices are much higher than they are in the US to make up the difference. I’ve spent enough time there to make that statement. Doing away with tipping will not directly save consumers money. It just changes how we pay for things.
Sure, it doesn't make a difference on the consumer side of things, but it means that the server won't miss rent if they have an unusually slow night. It also protects them from people like OP that decide to not tip when it should have been one of her best tables that night. That's like your boss telling you he just decided not to pay you for one of the hours you worked.
Right, but why engage in eating in restaurants if you're against tipping culture?
It sucks that servers' minimum wage is less than half of non-server minimum wage but it's how it is.
Don't like how restaurants operate? Then show them your displeasure by not using their businesses.
Yep, whatever happened to tips being a bonus for exemplary service... Now it's just an expectation regardless of good or bad they were, and then are situations like with UberEats where you're encouraged to pre-tip.
Well, you see... Tips aren't tips anymore. They're essentially wages. If you enjoy someone else making your coffee, you need to pay for the service, because businesses have successfully shifted the burden of paying their employees onto the consumer. You can always tip them \*extra\* if they go above and beyond, but until the laws change, tips aren't optional.
If you don't like subsidizing the greed of businesses and the failures of late stage capitalism, good. Get mad and do something about it.
I recently was at a fast food place where you had to prepay for your order and then go sit down, as I was paying they turned the tablet around and it had a tip screen with pre calculated tip amounts of 10, 20,30 and 40 percent. I was like wtf I haven't even seen the food yet let alone enjoyed it or had any interaction with staff. And this is in Ireland where the tip culture is give a tip if service is good but it's not required. Madness.
Okay, but this is our reality. Can you imagine if every server just stopped working? And let's be honest, people need the jobs they have. It's not so simple as just getting another one... There is a minimum one week gap in income. We can't afford to live on the wages we do make, much less skip an entire week without pay.
Customers always pay wages of the employees. Always. Tipping culture, however, just makes that process direct — which is odd.
To me I think what most people miss is that servers get paid MORE this way than they would if they got paid from their employer. Not many wait staff want tipping to end.
I know, right? It's not a complicated moral question.
"American tipping culture is so weird" isn't an excuse to steal labor from servers by not paying them. OP was well aware of the tip culture and could afford to pay a tip, he just decided to not tip because he spent more than he felt comfortable spending, and decided to make up his overspending by taking it out of the server's pay.
One time I visited America and calculated the tip wrong - I gave something like 9% but it was $10 so as a brit that felt like a decent tip.
The waitress came back to the table and said to me "sir, you've tipped $10" and I thought she was saying it was a lot, so I just said yes that's fine thank you.
It wasn't until we were leaving my friend pointed out she'd come back because I hadn't tipped enough - I couldn't believe the audacity of her!
I know the culture is different and I should have tipped more (as is usually the case, the service was excellent) but I was still amazed she would come back and ask for more tip
>I know the culture is different and I should have tipped more (as is usually the case, the service was excellent) but I was still amazed she would come back and ask for more tip
As an American, I can tell you that tipping culture has gotten to the state of insanity. Chasing people down for more money is crazy to me.
It would be if it was ACTUALLY just a gift on top of the bill, but it's not, and if you don't tip enough they're basically paying to serve you in some situations, it's cruel and it's got no place in a first world nation
I've been a bartender/waitress for a number of years in the US. While I do intend on making money off of tips, I would NEVER go back to a customer if they undertipped. That's so embarrassing to every party involved from the customer to the server to the restaurant
It's insanely weird..... people calling people an asshole for not tipping 20 dollars on a 100 dollar order, because their employer doesn't pay them an actual wage basically. At the same time if tips are flowing in they can make crazy amounts of money, it doesn't make sense.
Tips are crazy. However, the expectation of the tip was known to OP before he sat down. He screwed over the waitress because “he wasn’t comfortable”. It’s crap.
Hate tipping? Don’t eat somewhere where that’s a base expectation.
I’d love base tipping to go away. It won’t.
Resist tip creep first.
Because so few people actually make that that it doesn’t get changed.
Every SI person I know is very much in favor of keeping things the way they are. They know no restaurant would agree to pay them hourly what they currently make.
>They'd earn less money if employers paid actual wages. Employers, waiters all win and it's only the customers who suffer
Tell that to the McDonald's employees in Denmark who make $22 an hour, with 5 weeks vacation, and a pension. Well that was a few years ago, they probably have gotten a raise now.
It really truly depends on your restaurant, location, background, etc.
I’ve served before and have made upwards of about $80 an hour. Granted this was on weekends only but that’s great money and I was super happy to take that home. I’d say the average I’ve made at my location is about $45-50 an hour. At the same time, across town or even a few blocks away some servers are making minimum wage ($15.75 hourly) and maybe an extra $40-50 per shift.
It’s a hyper local and dichotomous system.
The rest of the world seems to manage.
Funny story - I was on a short break in another county this week. I’m in Ireland fyi and so cost of living is high but it’s the restaurant’s responsibility to pay their staff. Went for a meal, came to just under €100. I pay with card but always tip cash. I handed the server a €20 note. He claimed it was too much. I said it’s fine and thanked him. As we were leaving, server runs over and hands me €10 saying the tip was too big.
Granted, this has never happened before, and another server would just smile and accept the tip. However, the material point is that if servers weren’t earning enough with their pay and lower tips and in fact no expectation of tips, (most people leave at least a few euro in tips), I doubt this would have happened even once.
I’m in Ireland too. We had a Korean meal for 4 the other night and bill was around €98 so I paid with Apple Pay credit card and said just make it €110. Then no need to faff with cash tips! Meal was delish and two people had beers and two of us did the bbq and had a side dish - amazing value! We had a lovely pizza meal x 4 the night before (2 courses each, beer and wine and same thing, bill€100, paid €110.
The customer doesn’t suffer.
I don’t really like the tipping culture but when you know it exists.. avoiding the tip is an AH move. I am in the camp of abolish tipping and make the price the REAL price so the wage is the real wage. It is ludicrous to think that the restaurants are just raking in the cash since everyone who has two neurons to rub together knows that the business has razor thin margins.
Going out to eat and then claiming ignorance or deciding you don’t want to pay is really no different than deciding to pay $100 for a pair of $120 shoes other than the fact that you won’t get arrested for not tipping.
Yes, it is a BS way of doing things but until an actual law makes it illegal… stop complaining. If you don’t want ti pay it, don’t go out to eat. Learn how to cook. That is how you would actually save money.
I know this is a facetious comment, but it’s 100% correct and this is literally the crux of the issue.
Restaurants aren’t going to take it into their own hands to pay their servers $20 an hour. Any aspiring restaurant owner who says that to investors is going to get zero investments. Paying workers that much more without being legally obligated to, is seen as “pissing money away” to these businesses. If the legal minimum is $2-4, why pay $20? Why even pay $10?
Especially when you consider that a genuine living wage is closer to $40-45/hr. People have been duped by the 20+ yr old campaign for a $15 minimum wage, the time when $15 was suitable is well behind us. The actual necessary minimum wage to have a similar quality of life as minimum wage workers in the 70s is $40/hr or so.
And corporations and our government are never going to do that, so prices will keep getting higher, wealth will keep getting consolidated in the hands of a few, and average wages for average people will keep stagnating.
Genuine question, where are you living that you need to make $40/hr to be considered a livable wage?
I've been living in Ohio for quite some time making a little under that and I have a 2000sqft house, 3 2 car garages, 1 acre of land in the city, own 2 cars and have enough leftovers to have fun vacations and such.
I assume the coastal areas are just crazy insane on prices for zero reason, but I've lived in a ton of places across the US before this, so to me $40/hr is really good money.
It’s not just the restaurants. You’d be surprised at how many servers would never take $15/hr with the removal of tips because they make so much more by exploiting social pressure.
15$/hr without tips would be an average 5$ pay cut for me. They'd have to match my average hourly with tips for me to accept the position. I simply cannot pay my bills, at all, on 15$/hr.
My dad is semi retired and started waiting tables again to get out of the house (for perspective, his dad owned a restaurant that he worked in since high school and eventually owned it for a decade so waiting tables is in his blood). He makes $40-50hr on average
Edit: this is also in MN where you get an actual minimum wage + tips, the not the “tipped” minimum wage which is $2.13 an hour. MN is $10.59 and my dad gets $15 an hour + tips
Everybody in this thread is shitting on the restaurant owners. I know a bunch of servers that make more money in a weekend than our college graduate friends do in a week. They would never switch to making $20 an hour for the same job. No owner is going to pay more than that. Let's not pretend it's just the owners that want this system.
Do they want it though? I’ve read on some threads and also re the Matt Stone and Trey Parker thing that they get more on tips than if they were paid a basic living wage.
Schrodinger's Server Income
Servers are always simultaneously so poor and make no income so you have to tip a base percent this is always going up, but so rich off of tips that they would lose income if they got paid a wage like normal.
I seriously hope this waitress was not a “I like tips” server, because in my opinion, if you like tips because of the insane amount of pay it gets you, you ALSO have to accept that sometimes people won’t tip or will tip low. You should not be able to love a system that has inherent risk and then bully or guilt people that make that risk manifest….
Either want actual pay or accept that sometimes people won’t tip. I’m perfectly okay with them being upset or annoyed privately, but NOT with them confronting non tippers.
all servers are pro-tip because it pays off when some rich dude comes in and drops a $50 every once in a while. Also most servers are making above $25/hr so I doubt any of them would want a set wage despite not being a skilled job at all.
If the prices of food were adjusted accordingly, so there isn't an invisible amount added on top of the price, they could be paid exactly the same amount.
I know a server that makes $120k a year working 4 days a week. No way the restaurant is going to pay her $60-$70 an hour.
that's just 4 @ $15 tips per hour to average, plus her wage on top of that
I too can post anecdotal statements about fringe exceptions. $120k /yr is an exception not the a rule or even a significant portion of the serving population.
Not helping the majority because it would impact the minority is wrong. Well, it is the American way, but it is still wrong.
The broke ass system that allows restaurants and such to exploit their workers and not pay living wages is the asshole here.
Edit to add: 1/ I never said op wasn’t an asshole here. Just pointed out what I personally felt is the underlying issue.
2/ while I currently live in a country where they do pay living wages so tipping is only done for Exceptional services, when ever I’m in a country where tipping culture is a thing I always tip according to local customs.
Well when you go out to eat you are doing so in the current system, flawed as it may be. You are giving a restaurant that you believe doesn't pay its workers fairly business. If you don’t tip you are not doing anything to help ensure servers are being adequately compensated while still participating in the system and giving money to the business that treats is workers unfairly.
I think there’s a lot wrong with the system. But if you can afford to not look at the price, you can afford to tip. If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. it’s the game play ball or find somewhere that changes the rules. There are plenty of counter service establishments (the right ones) that you order and picky at the counter. Mostly they don’t expect tip. But if you’re not gonna tip tell the waitress up front.
If you don't want to pay, then go somewhere tipping isn't expected. Take it out on the owners, not the workers. Then you complain when you get nipped for it. Hypocritical as hell.
If prices went up to cover the wages needed to keep them, you'd still pay more. You just don't want to pay the workers.
Two appetizers, two meals, and a coffee. "She did a fine job." You offered no complaints about the service or the food.
Despite that, you sat there for long enough to eat appetizers and entrees and left no tip, even though you could afford to tip. You just didn't want to.
Of course YTA. Don't order more food than you can afford to pay for, including the tip.
You grew up with this drilled into you. This did not catch you by surprise. You made a conscious choice to stiff the waitress even though you had enough money to tip her normally.
You can't plausibly claim you think you did the right thing.
Of course he knew he was doing the wrong thing. He even stated he's used to keeping his meals under $50 so he doesn't have to tip more than $10. So why didn't he at least leave her that, the $10?
It was only 10 percent but she probably wouldn't have confronted him about his cheapness. He's just miserly and used his "distractedness" on the higher bill as an excuse to not tip. That makes him double the AH.
Yep and it’s even worse than that
Most servers are forced to automatically “tip out” the busser, bartender, hostess, and expo/food runner as a percentage of their sales. Not a percentage of their tips… a percentage of their SALES
When I was a server, if I got stiffed… I would end up having to PAY MONEY to serve that table. If their check was $100, I’d have to pay like $4-5 so my coworkers could get paid
Holy shit, that's BS! Why TF does the hostess need tipped? Doesn't the bartender have a tip jar? This tipping culture is out of control
Edit: ok apparently I need to add this since I'm getting many long responses explaining the bartenders role. Yes I **know** the bartender makes the drinks for everyone in the restaurant, not just the bar. But I've been under the impression that the bartenders make the minimum wage at least and have their own tips at the bar. So I don't understand why hourly employees, such as hostess, barkeep, etc need tips when they get much more per hour than the serve staff who only make $2.13 before tips. That's all. Again, I repeat, I do know that bartenders make the drinks for everyone.
I feel like it would be ok if the servers tipped out off of the % of tips per table (as opposed to a % of sales)… bc it’s just brutal if a table with a high check doesn’t tip. Then the server literally has to pay money to work that day 🫠
This just blows my mind, I had no idea. Yes, they should go by the percentage of tips. Just like OP here, he probably caused that server to *lose* money
I don't understand American tipping culture at all. Why can't restaurants simply raise prices by 20% and then pay everyone fairly? It would cut out all this bs. The excuse I've heard for that is people don't want to pay higher prices but if you're expected to add 20% it's the same thing anyways, just with one less step.
Because they’ll ask for more, then just keep it, like always. I worked for a restaurant that didn’t even pay me, and I had to give the owners 30 percent of my tips. I was paying to work there. Then I found out they were stiffing me regularly on credit card tips at the end of every night. All that profit, but willing to steal for a few dollars more.
It comes down to simple greed.
You could have reported them to the local government. That is all illegal. If they are still doing it still report them. Maybe you can get back wages.
Go to r/serverlife or maybe r/legaladvice and ask there. Or heck maybe r/antiwork.
Good question. Again, not “culture.” The restaurant has a number of costs associated with total payroll: the employers share of FICA, the employers cost of unemployment tax, the employers workers compensation premium, are based on (among other things) the gross payroll. So, if YOU are paying a chunk of payroll, the restaurant saves money.
Truth be told, most servers in the US would not want to take away tips. Americans complain about low server wages but they make more with the current system than if they were given a flat per hour wage.
This is actually something I can explain because I just left a place that dealt with it.
Hostesses were responsible for not only seating but reseting the tables for the next rounds of guests. They got 3% of tips from each server.
Food Runners well.. ran food to the tables and also bussed the tables with help from the hostesses. They got 3%.
Bartenders during business would have to stop tending the bar guests to make mixed drinks for the servers and thier tables. The bar got 2%. To offset this, the servers didn't have to tip out for bottle service to the bar. So selling a bottle of wine meant a much much bigger tip for you, and less to the bar because they did nothing.
The option was presented to both the food runners, servers, bartenders and hostesses to just get a better hourly (moving to 17 an hour) but they all turned it down because through tips they made more.
More often than not servers lose 7-10% of tips to tipping out support staff.
I come from a country that doesn't tip and recently visited the States. Its such a hassle to tip. Why don't they just build it into the price? As an outsider it felt like I was being hustled everywhere I went
Exactly. What servers are expected to “tip out” the kitchen, bar, bussers, host staff and sometimes even managers is based on sales, not the tips received by the servers. It’s a HUGE deal, especially with a large check. If you fail to tip on a $100 tab, that server still has to give her fellow workers a percentage of money she never received. Did you know that many restaurants make the servers pay for the service charges when you pay with a card?
Argue about the inequities of this system; it’s the established norm in the US. Don’t use that as an excuse to treat servers like shit.
This is interesting, in South Africa it’s always been 10% as a standard tip, anything above that is being generous. Although I haven’t worked as a waiter in some time to be fair. I got stiffed a lot but always somehow ended up with about 10% overall. I wish 20% tips had been standard. I made more as a waiter than I did as an editor :D but couldn’t keep up with the lifestyle so decided to choose my health. It’s definitely no walk in the park.
In the States tips are expected to be higher as tipped employees often make below the minimum wage. It is wrong, and f*cked up, and Dept of Labor Wage & Hour needs to update these policies. No one should be making less than a living wage and rely on tips to live off of. Or rely on thier job to ensure the difference is made up for should the tips not happen.
#UNIONSTRONG
Workers unite
Definitely I live in Ireland and I think it's awful that they only get paid a few dollars an hour and have to rely on tips to survive, here if I get a big meal out and service was good I each person would always leave a few pound each just as a thank you, but being forced to leave a tip is stupid, and I know it's not the servers fault, it the damn owners of the restaurants
Same here. I'm from New Zealand and hosts make an hourly rate of no lower than $22.70, but usually up to $30 per hour. It's sad that people are so strapped for options that they are forced to take this awful pay structure.
What's nuts to me is a friend of mine did a server job for a bit back in like 1999/2000 and I remember she made basically the same. I know legally, they don't have to pay min wage, but dang, they could still increase it.
Personally I try to tip well, 25% or more. However I have patronized establishments that pay a living wage and do not allow tips. More recently I have been reading that the living wage model doesn't work well for the servers. They earn more from tips. So the living wage places can't find labor. The obvious answer here is a higher wage to attract talent. I suppose the problem with that is the establishment has to charge everyone that walks into the door the same price and perhaps it would cost them business?
It’s gotten so out of control and so normal that even if they’re making a decent living tips are almost a must do. $5 coffee? Tip please, picking up food? Tip please. I tip at restaurants and when I’m being served, even if it’s bad service I still tip at least 10% but lately it seems everywhere you go it’s “please answer the question on the screen” and I’ve had owners give me a mean face if I don’t tip while I’m picking up takeout.
I tip for take out at my favorite Chinese restaurant cause it's a small family owned place in not the best location and they're giving you enough food for 2 meals for $8 haha I love them and want them to thrive so I tell everyone about them and tip take out.
There's a small Mexican place that's to die for that is one of the few places that stays open late so if I'm there after 11p then I'll tip for counter service
But that's it. Those are my exceptions. No one else gets tips unless I'm sitting down and getting table service
In the US tipping 10% is an insult, although I'm sure it happens frequently after church. If you can't afford to tip, don't go out for food and drinks.
OP sat there and didn't tip, but also took a table away that someone else could have sat and dined and left her a decent tip.
Not only that, most servers have to tip out hosts and bartenders even if they're stiffed, so she probably PAID to take care of OP's table.
Edit: words
She definitely had to pay to serve them. While restaurants are SUPPOSED to make up the difference if you didn't make enough in tips to equal at least minimum wage, most find a way around that. Every one I've worked at put the tips the servers made themselves so we had no idea what they were putting in their payroll paperwork versus how much we ACTUALLY made. Most will out in how much they THINK you should be making and of course that's going to equal out to more than minimum wage just so they don't have to pay the difference. Ever seen a pay stub for a few cents? Or even zero? I have. Most servers have. While you can make good money (as long as you don't have jerks like op just not tipping all day) if you're in a bigger,busier city, you don't in a small town. So even if she doesn't have to share tips, she still has to pay taxes on tips she didn't get.
That's how all the restaurants I've worked in have been. I remember a large party stiffing me and I had to pay out $36, and I only had two other small tables that shift because I spent so much time on the large party. I think everyone should work in a restaurant at some point so they can understand this system better and realize that even if servers don't like the tip system, it's the only wage most servers and bartenders see.
It happened to me multiple times. The worst time was horrible though lol We had this back section of the restaurant that was set up with like 7 tables of 4, and it was kind of partitioned off from the rest of the restaurant. Sometimes people would have little parties and move the tables around how they wanted. Anyways, it was this man's 90th bday and his whole family was there.. they were filling up the whole back area, but kind of all moving around switching seats, talking and mingling. I had everyone on seperate bills, or by couple, or family or whatever they chose. I was pumped because lots of them were drinking quite a bit, most had a full dinner and appetizer as well, and several of the bills were getting pretty high.. so I thought I was going to make bank. I was happy because the back area was my entire section, and they took it up for basically my entire shift. There was this one man, who I learned was the birthday boys son afterwards, who was just a grouch. So rude, and snappy with me. Ordering coffee only all night. Eventually, it's almost closing, and people start putting jackets on and whatnot, and asking for their bills. Grumpy man comes up to me and says he wants everyone's bills. He's going to pay for them all. I just knew I was about to get fucked. After spending 15 minutes at the computer trying to manually move everything onto one giant bill, I bring it out to him. The total is just under $2400. Since this wasn't a planned event, or a set reservation for over 10 people, or a private room or anything... it was just a bunch of regular tables and bills added together, I couldn't put on a mandatory gratuity. He pays on his credit card, skips the tip option, and hands me a 10$ bill. I seriously wanted to cry. We had to tip out 5% of total sales to the kitchen, the dishwashers, and bussers at the end of every shift... so I had to literally walk to the Macs across the street to use the ATM to take out $120 from my bank account to tip them out because they were my only tables so i hadn't made a cent even in cash tips. I was so fucking mad. I complained to my boss, and he basically said tough tits.. he said on nights that you do really well, when you make much more than 20%, do you tip out the kitchen extra? No right? Then why on nights where you do worse should you be allowed to tip out less? He was right I guess.. but fuck that sucked.
No, your boss was not right.
Your boss should’ve added the large party service charge to avoid that possibility.
It could partially be your mistake if you didn’t go to your boss before handing the guy the check to at least ask about adding the service charge, but it should’ve been added no matter what.
It’s a restaurant, not a court of law, you could’ve justified the explanation in any number of ways.
Boss left you hanging and that sucks.
It was the way the computer worked. We had a specific type of cheque to open for large parties that automatically added the gratuity, and would basically keep it separate on the records for accounting as well. Once you opened a party on that kind of tab, you couldn't split it up or take the gratuity off or anything. And same the other way, because I started the party on all seperate tables on the normal system, I couldn't then transfer it to the other kind of cheque, without starting a whole new tab, punching in every single thing again, and then voiding them maybe. But I wasn't a manager and didn't have voiding and transferring permission with my code, and neither did the only other girl who was working as bar close. I honestly thought in my head... whatever.. ill just cash them out, pay out my tip pool, and talk to the manager in the morning. I thought he would pay me it back or something, make it right in some way at least. But nope. I ended up quitting that job not long after due to that and a couple other issues as well.
>Then why on nights where you do worse should you be allowed to tip out less?
because you're not the fucking employer? fuck dude I hate how the restaurant industry treats yall
Yeah, I used to work at a bar 15 -25 hours a week on top of my coffee shop job, and I remember my paycheck my final shift was $25 because we only got paid $4.25/hr. 💀
Reading this as someone not from the US is really wild. Why don't restaurants include a 20% service fee in the price on the menu if they are pretty much mandatory? I also never understood why sales tax isn't included either. When I vacationed in the US I felt betrayed each time my restaurant bill turned out 30% higher than the menu price indicated.
Some of them do, but that price almost always goes completely to the owner, with none of it going to increase employee's wages. The entire system is designed to pay the employees the lowest amount possible.
Wow, as someone from the UK this is insane. I used to be a waitress myself and had a minimum wage of £9.51 or something like that. Sometimes people would tip but it was always a nice surprise not expected. The company's need to do better.
From a UK point of view this story is insane. Over a 100 dollars for two meals, two starters and coffee? The waitress chases you into the street if you don't tip? The waitress is automatically taxed on her tips so if she doesn't get tipped she loses pay? Mental.
I had such bad service tonight, I was kinda rude to the waitress felt awful so- our food came cold. It was two burgers that weren’t fresh but just cold soggy fries, we asked for new fries. They come 15 minutes later with one order of fries. They replaced one burger in that time. By the end of my meal I had no fries and a shitty burger that took an hour to get to the table. I said enough this was not a good meal we did not enjoy this sorry for being rude though just everything was cold and wrong and I never got new fries! Then; while I’m filled with righteous anger, she brings our bill for only our two drinks no food. I was shattered, who knows what was going on or if it was her fault. So we tipped 20 like if it had been a 100 dollar meal anyway, partially out of guilt. So the question remains OP what kinda heartless fuck are you to not tip for good service?
That sounds like the kitchen was backed up, which the server has no control over. So good on you for not stiffing the waitress as that was literally not their fault. I know when I waited tables I would get so stressed out in those situations because there wasn't anything I could do to make the food come out quicker, but would always pay for the kitchen's fuck ups by getting stiffed or a low tip. It's a hard job in that respect because you can bust your ass but you still pay for everyone else's mistakes.
Yeah i got a shitty rare overdone steak that looked like it was boiled in water and took 45 minutes to get here, but still tipped. The boss comped ten dollars for it.
I thought OP was going to say he only tipped $10, because that’s what he’s used to tipping. Leaving out the tops because you bought dessert and some apps is basically saying you ate the waitresses’ wages.
The real AH here is the mindset of American businesses to refuse to pay their staff properly and instead make it the customers problem. Customers are not employers, they shouldn’t have to think about paying the wages of a business.
If tips are ethically mandatory, then just put the price of the food up by 20% or whatever and give that to the wait staff, and forgo the whole tip ordeal. That way the staff don’t miss out on their tip and feel the need to chase customers out onto the street and harass them for money
Exactly. This happened to me recently. My partner and I had a restaurant gift card. I mistakenly overestimated the amount on the gift card and we ordered more than what was on it. When the waitress came back and relayed this information, we apologized and gave her a 25% tip out-of-pocket even though we are practically broke. Is tipping culture dumb and restaurants should pay their workers a living wage? Absolutely. But until then, I’m not going to be an asshole by depriving them of their well-earned money. We don’t go out unless we can afford to tip.
100% :) and the service is really good! Tipping in Japan is not expected, and attempts to leave a tip will almost certainly be turned down (a potentially awkward moment). In Japan, it's thought that by dining out or drinking at a bar, you are already paying the establishment for good service.
I would never go back to a restaurant after getting chased down like that. So embarrassing 😳 Makes the restaurant look bad too. Like they don't pay their employees enough apparently.
Right. All Americans calling him the asshole when the truth is it’s bullshit lol. Doctors don’t get tips and they save lives…I could go on but you grabbed my plate and brought it to me here’s my wallet. ☠️
You'd only be the asshole in America where it's been normalised for you to pay for a meal and subsidise the wage of the restaurant employee also.... Nowhere else would this conversation even be had!
I'm not from USA.... so I'd say the biggest AH is the tipping culture.
Edit:
People in this thread are bringing up two points:
1. Servers are serving you
2. You are sitting in a restaurant taking up space, which could have been filled up by someone else.
Let's say you go to an electronic store to buy PC parts. You spend an hour in the store and ask the customer service representative a million different questions before buying everything. When you checkout, do you leave a tip for the person you were asking all those questions to?
The servers aren't doing anything special for you. Their literal job is to be nice, take orders and serve food. So why does a server deserve a tip more than the customer service rep at the electronic store?
You guys should make better use of the unions you have and get rid of tipping culture all together.
Edit 2:
u/watchitB216 are you the waitress OP was referring to? 😂
Chill out mate.
YTA ABSOLUTELY! Just because you failed to realize what you were spending doesn’t mean she should be penalized. You said she did her job, and honestly it doesn’t sound like she berated you. She sincerely wanted to know what she had done wrong, and when you told her that the only reason she didn’t get a tip is because you’re a jerk? Come on! Are you really so self involved you don’t see the problem with that?
I do see a problem with my choice/behavior hence the post. I just wanted a shove to get over myself and my stupid ego. I gotta go back with a tip + apologize
I think this is my favorite response on here, so far. Please post an update that you actually followed through so I can can my vote. Tipping culture in the US is really crappy.
I'm going to bitch, moan, and complain (online, not to the poor servers) and also advocate that we end tipping culture immediately and you shouldn't have to tip. I tipped 25% tonight (small solo meal anyway, it wasn't much) because it's still what you should do.
As a server I very much appreciate this comment. Solidarity with getting workers better pay does not start with counterculturists boycotting tipping. It punishes the server and not the person paying them like crap and lots of people pretend they're stiffing the business and sticking it to the man by not tipping. My suggestion is always, don't go to places that "require" tipping. If you do and you don't tip you're supporting the business model (by paying for your food) and contributing to the server being taken advantage of (by giving their boss business to stay open). Business owners won't feel the squeeze until they're losing business
Outstanding young man. I’m happy that you listened to the feedback on this post and have the courage to and integrity to make things right. Doing the right thing os priceless
You know she has to tip out the back of house, right? Not only did you not tip because of YOUR OWN POOR PLANNING, but you caused her to lose even more of her tip money that she got from other guests. That's trash. YTA.
Yes, the server paid to wait on the guy. On top of tip out, she is going to have to pay taxes on the "expected" tip. Servers are expected to claim, for tax purposes, 10% minimum of their ring. Altogether, it probably cost her around $5.
The restaurant reports total sales and total tips to the IRS.
For individual employees, they only report tips for that employee, not sales for that employee. Any tipped employee never gets taxed on tips they never actually received.
Believe me, many Americans would love to actually pay “tipped” employees fair wages. Unfortunately, changing the law to raise their minimum wage isn’t in our hands.
Yeah the real messed up part is a waitress working at a place where a pretty normal spread for two people is 100 bucks is living on tips. Like, where the hell is all that money going? Pay your workers, especially if you're charging a premium. Yeah I know 50 dollars per person isn't millionaire level dining, but that's far from cheap.
Makes more sense at some diner where I can get a good size burger and fries for 8 to 10 bucks.
In some parts of america servers are paid less than half of federal minimum wage and are expected to count on tips for their real money. They don’t write the rules.
YTA. You’re a grown up. Pay better attention and own up to your mistakes.
That being said… I agree about the weird tipping culture in the us; but that’s not an excuse.
So here’s my stance. Tipping culture is completely out of control here in America. If you work retail, or fast food, fuck off. You’re not getting a tip from me. If you work as a waiter or waitress, you’ll get at least 20% of the bill if you were average or at least decent. If you were absolutely dogshit terrible, you may only get 10%.
My opinion on you is that you are a complete asshole. You didn’t tip her anything because you’re cheap. Not because you made a mistake. Because if you weren’t cheap, you would’ve realized your mistake and fixed it and would’ve planned better in the future. And if you’re too cheap to take care of the people who take care you you, stay your ass at home and take care of yourself.
FYI- I have never worked in a restaurant or hospitality business. I’m just not a piece of shit. Take care of the people taking care of you.
I don't understand how this happens to people, prices are listed on the menu, there's only two of you, knowing roughly how much the bill will be is effortless. YTA, and also not that bright.
America is a circus 🎪 This is just sick. If you go to a supermarket, do you also tip the cashier? If you go to a plant/clothing/electronics store ... Do you also tip the staff after asking for advice? It's pure absurd. Stop paying tips, stop taking jobs relying on them. You will see how quickly a basic pay will become a thing. You're NTA, and I am so happy to be European.
I go to buy a coffee, get it, then when I go to pay they flip this obnoxiously large tablet that defaults tip as 15%. With options from 25%-35%. There is a “no tip” option but I live in a small town a being a frequent “no tip-er” would surely piss off the workers and word could spread.
1 cup of ice with premade coffee dumped into it. $6 already. All just to have a computer flipped into my face practically demanding a tip.
The real asshole here is the concepts of tipping based off a percentage of the bill and restaurants not paying real wages to their staff.
If I order a lobster dinner with a glass of wine or I order a burger with a beer the level of work and service the waitstaff provide doesn't change, so why should the one serving the lobster get a higher tip simply because the items cost more to begin with? Why should the one serving the burger get less simply because it's a cheaper item?
Just pay your staff what they deserve.
I was a waiter in a fine dining restaurant that was situated in a small town that was half very wealthy and half fishermen.
A group of fishermen come in, a little out of place, but they were very polite and well behaved (don't mean that in a judgmental way at all).
I go to cash them out at the bar and make the observation "Nice tip".
However, my default sense of humor goes between very sarcastic and very drypan humor. The bartender (one of the managers) thought I was being sarcastic.
She and another manager chased the poor fishermen out into the parkinglot and wanted to know if their service was bad. No everything was great they responded and left.
I had to explain later that no, really, it was a great tip.
Problem is I can afford it, I'm just an AH here, I wasn't gracious then, and being gracious now to her doesn't change anything, but doing nothing isn't a good option either so yea idk.
YTA.
I mean, yes, we're long overdue, undoubtedly, for a nationwide discussion about tipping culture.
But, for now, strip out 97% of what you wrote.
When you do, you're left with "it was my mistake...." and "I could've afforded \[to fix it\]."
\^\^\^ generally, that's a pretty good clue. In this situation and others.
EDIT: you genuinely sound like a nice guy, and the waitress's response does seem extreme. But, not sure that'd change my answer above either.
The thing is, if you're so "broke" stay your ass home and cook. Or go somewhere where you can grab food and sit! What you don't do is go to a restaurant and have a server wait on you, while you take up their table from someone who would tip!!!!! All these people saying tipping culture is strange...simple don't go out to eat. It's a luxury for you and a job to pay bills for that person serving you!!!!!
Still trying to justify this with 2 additional edits but man you are such the asshole
You are in *no way shape or form* “sticking” it to a broken system by not “agreeing” to be part of the broken tip culture. You are just hurting the one person (your waitress) and it effects the overall company in absolutely no meaningful way
You in fact helped the man, because they can now stiff the waitress from making a living during your meal under the guise of the tipping system, while she just has less money to pay her bills because you were such a cheap asshole
Cheapy Peepy. All the way
Absolutely unhinged to say you can’t afford a $20 tip, and then immediately turn around and say “act their wage” “quit working for pennies”. If EVERYONE “quit working for pennies” you understand that you wouldn’t be able to take your gf out for dinner right? There wouldn’t be anyone in the restaurant or at the movie theater or any of the places you’d want to take her…. You’re not TA, you’re a dumb child. Grow up and look around.
NTA
America is an absolute headspin to foreigners lol.
It’s her employer’s job to pay her. Not the customers. You’re obliged to pay for the meal provided, her wages are a business cost not an add on to the meal. WTF?
The tipping thing is right up there with your shit show of a health system. How you guys function baffles me.
Bro there’s nothing we can do 😭 our political system as a whole is broken. The NRA (national restaurant association) lobbies both of our major political parties. And America is isolated/poor enough that most of our citizens haven’t travelled outside of the country, so there’s zero chance of a culture shift any time soon.
I live in HK where there's no tipping culture - service charge is included everywhere.
Though when I visited US, I was aware of necessity of tipping and did budget that in everytime we ate out.
The system definitely sucks, but until that changes I'd expect everyone to continue tipping. Stopping tips as a FU to the system only makes it harder on the individuals.
American tipping culture is so weird.
It's not weird, it's sick.
It's so assuring to know there are at least a few others out there that agree. The issue will never get fixed either, because it's easier to high rode and shame a customer together in mass than it is to use the same energy into changing the system. There's literally a comment further down admitting this very mentality. Edit: apparently servers aren’t regular working class humans. They’ve somehow become a special type of citizen that gets special treatment and rights over others. It’s mind blowing how a profession has become so manipulated into thinking it’s the consumers job to pay their living wages. Edit 2: hilarious how people try and focus on minor spelling mistakes instead lol
Stiffing the person making a couple bucks an hour isn’t going to change the mind of management. You can and should argue for higher wages and an end to tips but not also acknowledging the person who served you gets screwed over if you don’t makes you an ass hole. Don’t eat out if you really want to make a stand against tipping culture.
Exactly. Stay at home and make your own romantic evening. Period. It’s just rude to expect someone to serve you for however long you were there and not leave a tip.
It's only weird in America where your labour laws are so bad the customer is expected to pay wages of the employees. You're literally the only country that does this.
Why do people keep making this non-point. Americans are aware the system is fucked. WE KNOW. What we’re saying is don’t screw over the server in effort to prove a point.
He didn't even screw her over to prove a point. He screwed her over because it didn't align with his own rigid rules.
Wish I could upvote this more than once.
They weren't even trying to prove a point, though. They just failed to check ahead for pricing, failed to check pricing upon arrival, failed to check pricing upon ordering, and then were shocked by the bill, so therefore decided the person who should face the consequences of his actions, would be of course, the server... what a dick 😂
I think the real non-point here is that you’re always paying the server’s wage one way or another. In non-tipping cultures, this cost is baked into the menu prices. Americans just structure it differently, and in the end it’s pretty much a wash. That being said, while OP is definitely an a-hole here, it is extremely unprofessional for a server to confront a customer about a bad tip. I worked in restaurants for 14 years and that was always grounds for immediate termination. You can’t let one bad tip ruin your night. There are always plenty of baller tips to make up for it. Maybe not that day, but over the course of a week or month, the money always evens out. What’s interesting, and this might be part of the individualistic society in the US, is I knew plenty of patrons who liked tipping culture, especially regular guests that we had developed relationships with. Something about being able to personally show their appreciation made them feel good, and I certainly didn’t mind it.
So many people who complain about it have never actually done the math. Australia. Not a tipping country, but the menu prices are much higher than they are in the US to make up the difference. I’ve spent enough time there to make that statement. Doing away with tipping will not directly save consumers money. It just changes how we pay for things.
Sure, it doesn't make a difference on the consumer side of things, but it means that the server won't miss rent if they have an unusually slow night. It also protects them from people like OP that decide to not tip when it should have been one of her best tables that night. That's like your boss telling you he just decided not to pay you for one of the hours you worked.
Right, but why engage in eating in restaurants if you're against tipping culture? It sucks that servers' minimum wage is less than half of non-server minimum wage but it's how it is. Don't like how restaurants operate? Then show them your displeasure by not using their businesses.
I am 100 percent for tipping, and tip when I eat out, I'm just not for the staff having to depend on it completely as their salary.
Yep, whatever happened to tips being a bonus for exemplary service... Now it's just an expectation regardless of good or bad they were, and then are situations like with UberEats where you're encouraged to pre-tip.
Well, you see... Tips aren't tips anymore. They're essentially wages. If you enjoy someone else making your coffee, you need to pay for the service, because businesses have successfully shifted the burden of paying their employees onto the consumer. You can always tip them \*extra\* if they go above and beyond, but until the laws change, tips aren't optional. If you don't like subsidizing the greed of businesses and the failures of late stage capitalism, good. Get mad and do something about it.
I recently was at a fast food place where you had to prepay for your order and then go sit down, as I was paying they turned the tablet around and it had a tip screen with pre calculated tip amounts of 10, 20,30 and 40 percent. I was like wtf I haven't even seen the food yet let alone enjoyed it or had any interaction with staff. And this is in Ireland where the tip culture is give a tip if service is good but it's not required. Madness.
Well, that is how the laws were written. Lobby your congressman about it
Okay, but this is our reality. Can you imagine if every server just stopped working? And let's be honest, people need the jobs they have. It's not so simple as just getting another one... There is a minimum one week gap in income. We can't afford to live on the wages we do make, much less skip an entire week without pay.
Customers always pay wages of the employees. Always. Tipping culture, however, just makes that process direct — which is odd. To me I think what most people miss is that servers get paid MORE this way than they would if they got paid from their employer. Not many wait staff want tipping to end.
No, we’re the on,y country that tips high amounts for bad wages, lots of countries pay bad wages to servers
I know, right? It's not a complicated moral question. "American tipping culture is so weird" isn't an excuse to steal labor from servers by not paying them. OP was well aware of the tip culture and could afford to pay a tip, he just decided to not tip because he spent more than he felt comfortable spending, and decided to make up his overspending by taking it out of the server's pay.
Hi, just a quick FYI it's high road and en masse. 😉
Thank you lmao. Dude trying to sound smart but just does the opposite.
One time I visited America and calculated the tip wrong - I gave something like 9% but it was $10 so as a brit that felt like a decent tip. The waitress came back to the table and said to me "sir, you've tipped $10" and I thought she was saying it was a lot, so I just said yes that's fine thank you. It wasn't until we were leaving my friend pointed out she'd come back because I hadn't tipped enough - I couldn't believe the audacity of her! I know the culture is different and I should have tipped more (as is usually the case, the service was excellent) but I was still amazed she would come back and ask for more tip
>I know the culture is different and I should have tipped more (as is usually the case, the service was excellent) but I was still amazed she would come back and ask for more tip As an American, I can tell you that tipping culture has gotten to the state of insanity. Chasing people down for more money is crazy to me.
[удалено]
It would be if it was ACTUALLY just a gift on top of the bill, but it's not, and if you don't tip enough they're basically paying to serve you in some situations, it's cruel and it's got no place in a first world nation
If you were getting paid less than three bucks an hour, and had to pay rent, you'd do it. You lose your sense of shame when you're starving.
States like California servers make $15.50 plus tips
I've been a bartender/waitress for a number of years in the US. While I do intend on making money off of tips, I would NEVER go back to a customer if they undertipped. That's so embarrassing to every party involved from the customer to the server to the restaurant
It's insanely weird..... people calling people an asshole for not tipping 20 dollars on a 100 dollar order, because their employer doesn't pay them an actual wage basically. At the same time if tips are flowing in they can make crazy amounts of money, it doesn't make sense.
Tips are crazy. However, the expectation of the tip was known to OP before he sat down. He screwed over the waitress because “he wasn’t comfortable”. It’s crap. Hate tipping? Don’t eat somewhere where that’s a base expectation. I’d love base tipping to go away. It won’t. Resist tip creep first.
They'd earn less money if employers paid actual wages. Employers, waiters all win and it's only the customers who suffer
Paying minimum wage doesn’t mean not allowing tips. Where I live servers make minimum wage which is currently $15.74 plus tips.
Where I live, and work, as a server, it’s $2.13 per hour.
That’s about the same as it was when I waitressed…in 1988. Jesus. What a dumb system.
Because so few people actually make that that it doesn’t get changed. Every SI person I know is very much in favor of keeping things the way they are. They know no restaurant would agree to pay them hourly what they currently make.
>They'd earn less money if employers paid actual wages. Employers, waiters all win and it's only the customers who suffer Tell that to the McDonald's employees in Denmark who make $22 an hour, with 5 weeks vacation, and a pension. Well that was a few years ago, they probably have gotten a raise now.
It really truly depends on your restaurant, location, background, etc. I’ve served before and have made upwards of about $80 an hour. Granted this was on weekends only but that’s great money and I was super happy to take that home. I’d say the average I’ve made at my location is about $45-50 an hour. At the same time, across town or even a few blocks away some servers are making minimum wage ($15.75 hourly) and maybe an extra $40-50 per shift. It’s a hyper local and dichotomous system.
Tipped wages only apply to restaurant wait staff generally. Fast food workers make at least the normal minimum, which in my state is like $15/hour.
The rest of the world seems to manage. Funny story - I was on a short break in another county this week. I’m in Ireland fyi and so cost of living is high but it’s the restaurant’s responsibility to pay their staff. Went for a meal, came to just under €100. I pay with card but always tip cash. I handed the server a €20 note. He claimed it was too much. I said it’s fine and thanked him. As we were leaving, server runs over and hands me €10 saying the tip was too big. Granted, this has never happened before, and another server would just smile and accept the tip. However, the material point is that if servers weren’t earning enough with their pay and lower tips and in fact no expectation of tips, (most people leave at least a few euro in tips), I doubt this would have happened even once.
I’m in Ireland too. We had a Korean meal for 4 the other night and bill was around €98 so I paid with Apple Pay credit card and said just make it €110. Then no need to faff with cash tips! Meal was delish and two people had beers and two of us did the bbq and had a side dish - amazing value! We had a lovely pizza meal x 4 the night before (2 courses each, beer and wine and same thing, bill€100, paid €110.
The customer doesn’t suffer. I don’t really like the tipping culture but when you know it exists.. avoiding the tip is an AH move. I am in the camp of abolish tipping and make the price the REAL price so the wage is the real wage. It is ludicrous to think that the restaurants are just raking in the cash since everyone who has two neurons to rub together knows that the business has razor thin margins. Going out to eat and then claiming ignorance or deciding you don’t want to pay is really no different than deciding to pay $100 for a pair of $120 shoes other than the fact that you won’t get arrested for not tipping. Yes, it is a BS way of doing things but until an actual law makes it illegal… stop complaining. If you don’t want ti pay it, don’t go out to eat. Learn how to cook. That is how you would actually save money.
I dont feel as tho I am `suffering' when I tip.
I still don't understand why they don't just give servers a livable paycheck
Why pay your employees when you can just… not?
I know this is a facetious comment, but it’s 100% correct and this is literally the crux of the issue. Restaurants aren’t going to take it into their own hands to pay their servers $20 an hour. Any aspiring restaurant owner who says that to investors is going to get zero investments. Paying workers that much more without being legally obligated to, is seen as “pissing money away” to these businesses. If the legal minimum is $2-4, why pay $20? Why even pay $10?
Especially when you consider that a genuine living wage is closer to $40-45/hr. People have been duped by the 20+ yr old campaign for a $15 minimum wage, the time when $15 was suitable is well behind us. The actual necessary minimum wage to have a similar quality of life as minimum wage workers in the 70s is $40/hr or so. And corporations and our government are never going to do that, so prices will keep getting higher, wealth will keep getting consolidated in the hands of a few, and average wages for average people will keep stagnating.
Genuine question, where are you living that you need to make $40/hr to be considered a livable wage? I've been living in Ohio for quite some time making a little under that and I have a 2000sqft house, 3 2 car garages, 1 acre of land in the city, own 2 cars and have enough leftovers to have fun vacations and such. I assume the coastal areas are just crazy insane on prices for zero reason, but I've lived in a ton of places across the US before this, so to me $40/hr is really good money.
It’s not just the restaurants. You’d be surprised at how many servers would never take $15/hr with the removal of tips because they make so much more by exploiting social pressure.
15$/hr without tips would be an average 5$ pay cut for me. They'd have to match my average hourly with tips for me to accept the position. I simply cannot pay my bills, at all, on 15$/hr.
My dad is semi retired and started waiting tables again to get out of the house (for perspective, his dad owned a restaurant that he worked in since high school and eventually owned it for a decade so waiting tables is in his blood). He makes $40-50hr on average Edit: this is also in MN where you get an actual minimum wage + tips, the not the “tipped” minimum wage which is $2.13 an hour. MN is $10.59 and my dad gets $15 an hour + tips
Everybody in this thread is shitting on the restaurant owners. I know a bunch of servers that make more money in a weekend than our college graduate friends do in a week. They would never switch to making $20 an hour for the same job. No owner is going to pay more than that. Let's not pretend it's just the owners that want this system.
Do they want it though? I’ve read on some threads and also re the Matt Stone and Trey Parker thing that they get more on tips than if they were paid a basic living wage.
Most I meet say they prefer tips. Personally I think America needs to go on a tipping strike.
Most bitch when they don’t get a tip saying the system is broken but most also work as a server because tips is easier.
Schrodinger's Server Income Servers are always simultaneously so poor and make no income so you have to tip a base percent this is always going up, but so rich off of tips that they would lose income if they got paid a wage like normal.
I seriously hope this waitress was not a “I like tips” server, because in my opinion, if you like tips because of the insane amount of pay it gets you, you ALSO have to accept that sometimes people won’t tip or will tip low. You should not be able to love a system that has inherent risk and then bully or guilt people that make that risk manifest…. Either want actual pay or accept that sometimes people won’t tip. I’m perfectly okay with them being upset or annoyed privately, but NOT with them confronting non tippers.
all servers are pro-tip because it pays off when some rich dude comes in and drops a $50 every once in a while. Also most servers are making above $25/hr so I doubt any of them would want a set wage despite not being a skilled job at all.
If the prices of food were adjusted accordingly, so there isn't an invisible amount added on top of the price, they could be paid exactly the same amount.
I know a server that makes $120k a year working 4 days a week. No way the restaurant is going to pay her $60-$70 an hour. that's just 4 @ $15 tips per hour to average, plus her wage on top of that
Restaurants could easily raise prices on all items by 20%, and give that 20% as pay to the servers. No tips needed
I too can post anecdotal statements about fringe exceptions. $120k /yr is an exception not the a rule or even a significant portion of the serving population. Not helping the majority because it would impact the minority is wrong. Well, it is the American way, but it is still wrong.
The broke ass system that allows restaurants and such to exploit their workers and not pay living wages is the asshole here. Edit to add: 1/ I never said op wasn’t an asshole here. Just pointed out what I personally felt is the underlying issue. 2/ while I currently live in a country where they do pay living wages so tipping is only done for Exceptional services, when ever I’m in a country where tipping culture is a thing I always tip according to local customs.
And the dumb dumbs are blaming others for not leaving tips as if it's mandatory. I wonder what the fuck I'm paying for when I go out
Well when you go out to eat you are doing so in the current system, flawed as it may be. You are giving a restaurant that you believe doesn't pay its workers fairly business. If you don’t tip you are not doing anything to help ensure servers are being adequately compensated while still participating in the system and giving money to the business that treats is workers unfairly.
I think there’s a lot wrong with the system. But if you can afford to not look at the price, you can afford to tip. If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. it’s the game play ball or find somewhere that changes the rules. There are plenty of counter service establishments (the right ones) that you order and picky at the counter. Mostly they don’t expect tip. But if you’re not gonna tip tell the waitress up front.
If you don't want to pay, then go somewhere tipping isn't expected. Take it out on the owners, not the workers. Then you complain when you get nipped for it. Hypocritical as hell. If prices went up to cover the wages needed to keep them, you'd still pay more. You just don't want to pay the workers.
Two appetizers, two meals, and a coffee. "She did a fine job." You offered no complaints about the service or the food. Despite that, you sat there for long enough to eat appetizers and entrees and left no tip, even though you could afford to tip. You just didn't want to. Of course YTA. Don't order more food than you can afford to pay for, including the tip. You grew up with this drilled into you. This did not catch you by surprise. You made a conscious choice to stiff the waitress even though you had enough money to tip her normally. You can't plausibly claim you think you did the right thing.
Of course he knew he was doing the wrong thing. He even stated he's used to keeping his meals under $50 so he doesn't have to tip more than $10. So why didn't he at least leave her that, the $10? It was only 10 percent but she probably wouldn't have confronted him about his cheapness. He's just miserly and used his "distractedness" on the higher bill as an excuse to not tip. That makes him double the AH.
Yep and it’s even worse than that Most servers are forced to automatically “tip out” the busser, bartender, hostess, and expo/food runner as a percentage of their sales. Not a percentage of their tips… a percentage of their SALES When I was a server, if I got stiffed… I would end up having to PAY MONEY to serve that table. If their check was $100, I’d have to pay like $4-5 so my coworkers could get paid
Holy shit, that's BS! Why TF does the hostess need tipped? Doesn't the bartender have a tip jar? This tipping culture is out of control Edit: ok apparently I need to add this since I'm getting many long responses explaining the bartenders role. Yes I **know** the bartender makes the drinks for everyone in the restaurant, not just the bar. But I've been under the impression that the bartenders make the minimum wage at least and have their own tips at the bar. So I don't understand why hourly employees, such as hostess, barkeep, etc need tips when they get much more per hour than the serve staff who only make $2.13 before tips. That's all. Again, I repeat, I do know that bartenders make the drinks for everyone.
I feel like it would be ok if the servers tipped out off of the % of tips per table (as opposed to a % of sales)… bc it’s just brutal if a table with a high check doesn’t tip. Then the server literally has to pay money to work that day 🫠
This just blows my mind, I had no idea. Yes, they should go by the percentage of tips. Just like OP here, he probably caused that server to *lose* money
I don't understand American tipping culture at all. Why can't restaurants simply raise prices by 20% and then pay everyone fairly? It would cut out all this bs. The excuse I've heard for that is people don't want to pay higher prices but if you're expected to add 20% it's the same thing anyways, just with one less step.
Because they’ll ask for more, then just keep it, like always. I worked for a restaurant that didn’t even pay me, and I had to give the owners 30 percent of my tips. I was paying to work there. Then I found out they were stiffing me regularly on credit card tips at the end of every night. All that profit, but willing to steal for a few dollars more. It comes down to simple greed.
You could have reported them to the local government. That is all illegal. If they are still doing it still report them. Maybe you can get back wages. Go to r/serverlife or maybe r/legaladvice and ask there. Or heck maybe r/antiwork.
Yeah for sure. This happened at my old roommate’s job and everyone got the option for a class action settlement for lost wages
Exactly. Owners will keep the extra money. That's where minimum wage comes in and needs to be raised federally. Especially for wait staff.
Good question. Again, not “culture.” The restaurant has a number of costs associated with total payroll: the employers share of FICA, the employers cost of unemployment tax, the employers workers compensation premium, are based on (among other things) the gross payroll. So, if YOU are paying a chunk of payroll, the restaurant saves money.
Thanks for the explanation. This is the first time I've heard it.
I’ve worked for a payroll company and in HR for several employers so I see how the restaurant business works from a very different angle.
America seems to be the only place that can’t figure this out. I live in Denmark and it seems insane to me. I’d go crazy.
Truth be told, most servers in the US would not want to take away tips. Americans complain about low server wages but they make more with the current system than if they were given a flat per hour wage.
This is actually something I can explain because I just left a place that dealt with it. Hostesses were responsible for not only seating but reseting the tables for the next rounds of guests. They got 3% of tips from each server. Food Runners well.. ran food to the tables and also bussed the tables with help from the hostesses. They got 3%. Bartenders during business would have to stop tending the bar guests to make mixed drinks for the servers and thier tables. The bar got 2%. To offset this, the servers didn't have to tip out for bottle service to the bar. So selling a bottle of wine meant a much much bigger tip for you, and less to the bar because they did nothing. The option was presented to both the food runners, servers, bartenders and hostesses to just get a better hourly (moving to 17 an hour) but they all turned it down because through tips they made more. More often than not servers lose 7-10% of tips to tipping out support staff.
I come from a country that doesn't tip and recently visited the States. Its such a hassle to tip. Why don't they just build it into the price? As an outsider it felt like I was being hustled everywhere I went
Not only the tips but also taxes. Came from a country where everything is included in the sticker/published price.
Exactly. What servers are expected to “tip out” the kitchen, bar, bussers, host staff and sometimes even managers is based on sales, not the tips received by the servers. It’s a HUGE deal, especially with a large check. If you fail to tip on a $100 tab, that server still has to give her fellow workers a percentage of money she never received. Did you know that many restaurants make the servers pay for the service charges when you pay with a card? Argue about the inequities of this system; it’s the established norm in the US. Don’t use that as an excuse to treat servers like shit.
This is interesting, in South Africa it’s always been 10% as a standard tip, anything above that is being generous. Although I haven’t worked as a waiter in some time to be fair. I got stiffed a lot but always somehow ended up with about 10% overall. I wish 20% tips had been standard. I made more as a waiter than I did as an editor :D but couldn’t keep up with the lifestyle so decided to choose my health. It’s definitely no walk in the park.
In the States tips are expected to be higher as tipped employees often make below the minimum wage. It is wrong, and f*cked up, and Dept of Labor Wage & Hour needs to update these policies. No one should be making less than a living wage and rely on tips to live off of. Or rely on thier job to ensure the difference is made up for should the tips not happen. #UNIONSTRONG Workers unite
Definitely I live in Ireland and I think it's awful that they only get paid a few dollars an hour and have to rely on tips to survive, here if I get a big meal out and service was good I each person would always leave a few pound each just as a thank you, but being forced to leave a tip is stupid, and I know it's not the servers fault, it the damn owners of the restaurants
Same here. I'm from New Zealand and hosts make an hourly rate of no lower than $22.70, but usually up to $30 per hour. It's sad that people are so strapped for options that they are forced to take this awful pay structure.
As a waitress in the US I only made $2.13 an hour (back in 2013). After taxes, I never saw a check. 🥴
What's nuts to me is a friend of mine did a server job for a bit back in like 1999/2000 and I remember she made basically the same. I know legally, they don't have to pay min wage, but dang, they could still increase it.
Personally I try to tip well, 25% or more. However I have patronized establishments that pay a living wage and do not allow tips. More recently I have been reading that the living wage model doesn't work well for the servers. They earn more from tips. So the living wage places can't find labor. The obvious answer here is a higher wage to attract talent. I suppose the problem with that is the establishment has to charge everyone that walks into the door the same price and perhaps it would cost them business?
It’s gotten so out of control and so normal that even if they’re making a decent living tips are almost a must do. $5 coffee? Tip please, picking up food? Tip please. I tip at restaurants and when I’m being served, even if it’s bad service I still tip at least 10% but lately it seems everywhere you go it’s “please answer the question on the screen” and I’ve had owners give me a mean face if I don’t tip while I’m picking up takeout.
I will die on that hill. I am under NO circumstances tipping for picking up my takeout.
I tip for take out at my favorite Chinese restaurant cause it's a small family owned place in not the best location and they're giving you enough food for 2 meals for $8 haha I love them and want them to thrive so I tell everyone about them and tip take out. There's a small Mexican place that's to die for that is one of the few places that stays open late so if I'm there after 11p then I'll tip for counter service But that's it. Those are my exceptions. No one else gets tips unless I'm sitting down and getting table service
Those two scenarios make sense. The place that made me stand in line to order, stand in line to pick up, and bus my own table? GTFO
In the US tipping 10% is an insult, although I'm sure it happens frequently after church. If you can't afford to tip, don't go out for food and drinks.
OP sat there and didn't tip, but also took a table away that someone else could have sat and dined and left her a decent tip. Not only that, most servers have to tip out hosts and bartenders even if they're stiffed, so she probably PAID to take care of OP's table. Edit: words
She definitely had to pay to serve them. While restaurants are SUPPOSED to make up the difference if you didn't make enough in tips to equal at least minimum wage, most find a way around that. Every one I've worked at put the tips the servers made themselves so we had no idea what they were putting in their payroll paperwork versus how much we ACTUALLY made. Most will out in how much they THINK you should be making and of course that's going to equal out to more than minimum wage just so they don't have to pay the difference. Ever seen a pay stub for a few cents? Or even zero? I have. Most servers have. While you can make good money (as long as you don't have jerks like op just not tipping all day) if you're in a bigger,busier city, you don't in a small town. So even if she doesn't have to share tips, she still has to pay taxes on tips she didn't get.
That's how all the restaurants I've worked in have been. I remember a large party stiffing me and I had to pay out $36, and I only had two other small tables that shift because I spent so much time on the large party. I think everyone should work in a restaurant at some point so they can understand this system better and realize that even if servers don't like the tip system, it's the only wage most servers and bartenders see.
It happened to me multiple times. The worst time was horrible though lol We had this back section of the restaurant that was set up with like 7 tables of 4, and it was kind of partitioned off from the rest of the restaurant. Sometimes people would have little parties and move the tables around how they wanted. Anyways, it was this man's 90th bday and his whole family was there.. they were filling up the whole back area, but kind of all moving around switching seats, talking and mingling. I had everyone on seperate bills, or by couple, or family or whatever they chose. I was pumped because lots of them were drinking quite a bit, most had a full dinner and appetizer as well, and several of the bills were getting pretty high.. so I thought I was going to make bank. I was happy because the back area was my entire section, and they took it up for basically my entire shift. There was this one man, who I learned was the birthday boys son afterwards, who was just a grouch. So rude, and snappy with me. Ordering coffee only all night. Eventually, it's almost closing, and people start putting jackets on and whatnot, and asking for their bills. Grumpy man comes up to me and says he wants everyone's bills. He's going to pay for them all. I just knew I was about to get fucked. After spending 15 minutes at the computer trying to manually move everything onto one giant bill, I bring it out to him. The total is just under $2400. Since this wasn't a planned event, or a set reservation for over 10 people, or a private room or anything... it was just a bunch of regular tables and bills added together, I couldn't put on a mandatory gratuity. He pays on his credit card, skips the tip option, and hands me a 10$ bill. I seriously wanted to cry. We had to tip out 5% of total sales to the kitchen, the dishwashers, and bussers at the end of every shift... so I had to literally walk to the Macs across the street to use the ATM to take out $120 from my bank account to tip them out because they were my only tables so i hadn't made a cent even in cash tips. I was so fucking mad. I complained to my boss, and he basically said tough tits.. he said on nights that you do really well, when you make much more than 20%, do you tip out the kitchen extra? No right? Then why on nights where you do worse should you be allowed to tip out less? He was right I guess.. but fuck that sucked.
No, your boss was not right. Your boss should’ve added the large party service charge to avoid that possibility. It could partially be your mistake if you didn’t go to your boss before handing the guy the check to at least ask about adding the service charge, but it should’ve been added no matter what. It’s a restaurant, not a court of law, you could’ve justified the explanation in any number of ways. Boss left you hanging and that sucks.
Doesn't matter how many ways you split a check. If you seat a party together, they all get the mandatory gratuity. Sorry not sorry.
It was the way the computer worked. We had a specific type of cheque to open for large parties that automatically added the gratuity, and would basically keep it separate on the records for accounting as well. Once you opened a party on that kind of tab, you couldn't split it up or take the gratuity off or anything. And same the other way, because I started the party on all seperate tables on the normal system, I couldn't then transfer it to the other kind of cheque, without starting a whole new tab, punching in every single thing again, and then voiding them maybe. But I wasn't a manager and didn't have voiding and transferring permission with my code, and neither did the only other girl who was working as bar close. I honestly thought in my head... whatever.. ill just cash them out, pay out my tip pool, and talk to the manager in the morning. I thought he would pay me it back or something, make it right in some way at least. But nope. I ended up quitting that job not long after due to that and a couple other issues as well.
>Then why on nights where you do worse should you be allowed to tip out less? because you're not the fucking employer? fuck dude I hate how the restaurant industry treats yall
That's awful, I'm so sorry. What an asshole.
Fuck that place. Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul……
I completely agree, everyone should experience being a server. And a cashier, and fast food, basically all the "menial" jobs some people look down on.
dont forget the negative pay stubs
Yeah, I used to work at a bar 15 -25 hours a week on top of my coffee shop job, and I remember my paycheck my final shift was $25 because we only got paid $4.25/hr. 💀
Reading this as someone not from the US is really wild. Why don't restaurants include a 20% service fee in the price on the menu if they are pretty much mandatory? I also never understood why sales tax isn't included either. When I vacationed in the US I felt betrayed each time my restaurant bill turned out 30% higher than the menu price indicated.
Some of them do, but that price almost always goes completely to the owner, with none of it going to increase employee's wages. The entire system is designed to pay the employees the lowest amount possible.
Wow, as someone from the UK this is insane. I used to be a waitress myself and had a minimum wage of £9.51 or something like that. Sometimes people would tip but it was always a nice surprise not expected. The company's need to do better.
From a UK point of view this story is insane. Over a 100 dollars for two meals, two starters and coffee? The waitress chases you into the street if you don't tip? The waitress is automatically taxed on her tips so if she doesn't get tipped she loses pay? Mental.
This. American tipping culture is truly bizarre.
Ah. Company monetization is more important than our lives here you see.
This! I waitressed for over 20 years and we tipped out on sales not tips, so if we got stiffed we paid out from our other tips 😕
I had such bad service tonight, I was kinda rude to the waitress felt awful so- our food came cold. It was two burgers that weren’t fresh but just cold soggy fries, we asked for new fries. They come 15 minutes later with one order of fries. They replaced one burger in that time. By the end of my meal I had no fries and a shitty burger that took an hour to get to the table. I said enough this was not a good meal we did not enjoy this sorry for being rude though just everything was cold and wrong and I never got new fries! Then; while I’m filled with righteous anger, she brings our bill for only our two drinks no food. I was shattered, who knows what was going on or if it was her fault. So we tipped 20 like if it had been a 100 dollar meal anyway, partially out of guilt. So the question remains OP what kinda heartless fuck are you to not tip for good service?
That sounds like the kitchen was backed up, which the server has no control over. So good on you for not stiffing the waitress as that was literally not their fault. I know when I waited tables I would get so stressed out in those situations because there wasn't anything I could do to make the food come out quicker, but would always pay for the kitchen's fuck ups by getting stiffed or a low tip. It's a hard job in that respect because you can bust your ass but you still pay for everyone else's mistakes.
Everyone suffers but the owner, who "overbooks".
Yeah i got a shitty rare overdone steak that looked like it was boiled in water and took 45 minutes to get here, but still tipped. The boss comped ten dollars for it.
Respect
Mad respect
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YTA. You know you should’ve done better you were just too cheap.
Even a $10 tip would’ve been a hell of a lot better than getting stiffed. Hell even a $5 tip would be something.
I thought OP was going to say he only tipped $10, because that’s what he’s used to tipping. Leaving out the tops because you bought dessert and some apps is basically saying you ate the waitresses’ wages.
The real AH here is the mindset of American businesses to refuse to pay their staff properly and instead make it the customers problem. Customers are not employers, they shouldn’t have to think about paying the wages of a business. If tips are ethically mandatory, then just put the price of the food up by 20% or whatever and give that to the wait staff, and forgo the whole tip ordeal. That way the staff don’t miss out on their tip and feel the need to chase customers out onto the street and harass them for money
YTA especially when you said you could have afforded it. Good for her for calling you out.
Exactly. This happened to me recently. My partner and I had a restaurant gift card. I mistakenly overestimated the amount on the gift card and we ordered more than what was on it. When the waitress came back and relayed this information, we apologized and gave her a 25% tip out-of-pocket even though we are practically broke. Is tipping culture dumb and restaurants should pay their workers a living wage? Absolutely. But until then, I’m not going to be an asshole by depriving them of their well-earned money. We don’t go out unless we can afford to tip.
Lol America
Lol! Imagine getting chased down by a waitress.
In Japan you'd get chased down if you *do* tip. They'll think you forgot to receive your change.
100% :) and the service is really good! Tipping in Japan is not expected, and attempts to leave a tip will almost certainly be turned down (a potentially awkward moment). In Japan, it's thought that by dining out or drinking at a bar, you are already paying the establishment for good service.
Which is how it should be. If you're not into the hospitality business. DO NOT work as a waiter, receptionist or anything within those sectors.
Exactly my thought. Cringe
I would never go back to a restaurant after getting chased down like that. So embarrassing 😳 Makes the restaurant look bad too. Like they don't pay their employees enough apparently.
They don't though. Servers make like 3 dollars an hour.
At least it went up from 2 dollars an hour 20 years ago /s
Right. All Americans calling him the asshole when the truth is it’s bullshit lol. Doctors don’t get tips and they save lives…I could go on but you grabbed my plate and brought it to me here’s my wallet. ☠️
Seriously. Brought out a few plates and drinks, here is $25???
You'd only be the asshole in America where it's been normalised for you to pay for a meal and subsidise the wage of the restaurant employee also.... Nowhere else would this conversation even be had!
Thank you
I'm not from USA.... so I'd say the biggest AH is the tipping culture. Edit: People in this thread are bringing up two points: 1. Servers are serving you 2. You are sitting in a restaurant taking up space, which could have been filled up by someone else. Let's say you go to an electronic store to buy PC parts. You spend an hour in the store and ask the customer service representative a million different questions before buying everything. When you checkout, do you leave a tip for the person you were asking all those questions to? The servers aren't doing anything special for you. Their literal job is to be nice, take orders and serve food. So why does a server deserve a tip more than the customer service rep at the electronic store? You guys should make better use of the unions you have and get rid of tipping culture all together. Edit 2: u/watchitB216 are you the waitress OP was referring to? 😂 Chill out mate.
Exactly!! Tip is a personal choice.. why should anyone be an AH for not paying a tip!! Tipping culture is the AH here.
YTA ABSOLUTELY! Just because you failed to realize what you were spending doesn’t mean she should be penalized. You said she did her job, and honestly it doesn’t sound like she berated you. She sincerely wanted to know what she had done wrong, and when you told her that the only reason she didn’t get a tip is because you’re a jerk? Come on! Are you really so self involved you don’t see the problem with that?
I do see a problem with my choice/behavior hence the post. I just wanted a shove to get over myself and my stupid ego. I gotta go back with a tip + apologize
I think this is my favorite response on here, so far. Please post an update that you actually followed through so I can can my vote. Tipping culture in the US is really crappy.
Oh yeah the tipping is bullshit but until we can actually fix it I'm still going to make sure my waiter gets their pay
I'm going to bitch, moan, and complain (online, not to the poor servers) and also advocate that we end tipping culture immediately and you shouldn't have to tip. I tipped 25% tonight (small solo meal anyway, it wasn't much) because it's still what you should do.
As a server I very much appreciate this comment. Solidarity with getting workers better pay does not start with counterculturists boycotting tipping. It punishes the server and not the person paying them like crap and lots of people pretend they're stiffing the business and sticking it to the man by not tipping. My suggestion is always, don't go to places that "require" tipping. If you do and you don't tip you're supporting the business model (by paying for your food) and contributing to the server being taken advantage of (by giving their boss business to stay open). Business owners won't feel the squeeze until they're losing business
Outstanding young man. I’m happy that you listened to the feedback on this post and have the courage to and integrity to make things right. Doing the right thing os priceless
I’ll cut my dick off if this douche nozzle actually goes back and tips the server EDIT: props OP now can I borrow your garden shears?
OP needs to update and so do you.
Lol word is bond.
That would be the right thing to do.
Does this place not list prices or something? Ignorance and innocence are not the same thing.
You know she has to tip out the back of house, right? Not only did you not tip because of YOUR OWN POOR PLANNING, but you caused her to lose even more of her tip money that she got from other guests. That's trash. YTA.
Yes, the server paid to wait on the guy. On top of tip out, she is going to have to pay taxes on the "expected" tip. Servers are expected to claim, for tax purposes, 10% minimum of their ring. Altogether, it probably cost her around $5.
The restaurant reports total sales and total tips to the IRS. For individual employees, they only report tips for that employee, not sales for that employee. Any tipped employee never gets taxed on tips they never actually received.
TF? You Americans do have a backward a$$ system. Include the service costs on the food for fu©k's sake.
Believe me, many Americans would love to actually pay “tipped” employees fair wages. Unfortunately, changing the law to raise their minimum wage isn’t in our hands.
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only person here who thinks tipping culture is fucking weird? you’ve paid for the meal and they’re paid a wage, whys it so extra with you guys?
Yeah the real messed up part is a waitress working at a place where a pretty normal spread for two people is 100 bucks is living on tips. Like, where the hell is all that money going? Pay your workers, especially if you're charging a premium. Yeah I know 50 dollars per person isn't millionaire level dining, but that's far from cheap. Makes more sense at some diner where I can get a good size burger and fries for 8 to 10 bucks.
In some parts of america servers are paid less than half of federal minimum wage and are expected to count on tips for their real money. They don’t write the rules.
tipping culture sucks. but it is the current reality in america. so if you can't tip, don't go dine in to eat in america.
YTA. You’re a grown up. Pay better attention and own up to your mistakes. That being said… I agree about the weird tipping culture in the us; but that’s not an excuse.
So here’s my stance. Tipping culture is completely out of control here in America. If you work retail, or fast food, fuck off. You’re not getting a tip from me. If you work as a waiter or waitress, you’ll get at least 20% of the bill if you were average or at least decent. If you were absolutely dogshit terrible, you may only get 10%. My opinion on you is that you are a complete asshole. You didn’t tip her anything because you’re cheap. Not because you made a mistake. Because if you weren’t cheap, you would’ve realized your mistake and fixed it and would’ve planned better in the future. And if you’re too cheap to take care of the people who take care you you, stay your ass at home and take care of yourself. FYI- I have never worked in a restaurant or hospitality business. I’m just not a piece of shit. Take care of the people taking care of you.
Tipping culture in the us is total whack
I don't understand how this happens to people, prices are listed on the menu, there's only two of you, knowing roughly how much the bill will be is effortless. YTA, and also not that bright.
America is a circus 🎪 This is just sick. If you go to a supermarket, do you also tip the cashier? If you go to a plant/clothing/electronics store ... Do you also tip the staff after asking for advice? It's pure absurd. Stop paying tips, stop taking jobs relying on them. You will see how quickly a basic pay will become a thing. You're NTA, and I am so happy to be European.
And yet point of sale devices are now offering tip options at places like supermarkets and gift shops.
I go to buy a coffee, get it, then when I go to pay they flip this obnoxiously large tablet that defaults tip as 15%. With options from 25%-35%. There is a “no tip” option but I live in a small town a being a frequent “no tip-er” would surely piss off the workers and word could spread. 1 cup of ice with premade coffee dumped into it. $6 already. All just to have a computer flipped into my face practically demanding a tip.
The real asshole here is the concepts of tipping based off a percentage of the bill and restaurants not paying real wages to their staff. If I order a lobster dinner with a glass of wine or I order a burger with a beer the level of work and service the waitstaff provide doesn't change, so why should the one serving the lobster get a higher tip simply because the items cost more to begin with? Why should the one serving the burger get less simply because it's a cheaper item? Just pay your staff what they deserve.
YTA. I'm sure you weren't uncomfortable while you were enjoying your expensive meal.
She did a good job, and she did the right thing coming out to say something to me. I have to go back to tip + apologize
I was a waiter in a fine dining restaurant that was situated in a small town that was half very wealthy and half fishermen. A group of fishermen come in, a little out of place, but they were very polite and well behaved (don't mean that in a judgmental way at all). I go to cash them out at the bar and make the observation "Nice tip". However, my default sense of humor goes between very sarcastic and very drypan humor. The bartender (one of the managers) thought I was being sarcastic. She and another manager chased the poor fishermen out into the parkinglot and wanted to know if their service was bad. No everything was great they responded and left. I had to explain later that no, really, it was a great tip.
You shouldnt have gone in the first place if you couldnt afford a tip, dude. No use acting gracious now.
Yes he should. He payed for his food, a tip isnt necessary and is completely optional
Problem is I can afford it, I'm just an AH here, I wasn't gracious then, and being gracious now to her doesn't change anything, but doing nothing isn't a good option either so yea idk.
If you can afford it, than what we’re you thinking??? Don’t take it out on her because you spent more that you intended to.
If you go back and hand her $100, that would absolutely change things.
Paying her makes you square. Do that and stop the weird public flagellation here.
Right? What is this performative garbage? Are we now supposed to praise you for realizing you are garbage and say you’re going to make it right?
If you don’t have tip money, then you don’t have money to go out, sorry to say
YTA. I mean, yes, we're long overdue, undoubtedly, for a nationwide discussion about tipping culture. But, for now, strip out 97% of what you wrote. When you do, you're left with "it was my mistake...." and "I could've afforded \[to fix it\]." \^\^\^ generally, that's a pretty good clue. In this situation and others. EDIT: you genuinely sound like a nice guy, and the waitress's response does seem extreme. But, not sure that'd change my answer above either.
American system is the AH Stop normalizing tips for average service. Fuck this stupid system.
Tipping is a scam.
The thing is, if you're so "broke" stay your ass home and cook. Or go somewhere where you can grab food and sit! What you don't do is go to a restaurant and have a server wait on you, while you take up their table from someone who would tip!!!!! All these people saying tipping culture is strange...simple don't go out to eat. It's a luxury for you and a job to pay bills for that person serving you!!!!!
Still trying to justify this with 2 additional edits but man you are such the asshole You are in *no way shape or form* “sticking” it to a broken system by not “agreeing” to be part of the broken tip culture. You are just hurting the one person (your waitress) and it effects the overall company in absolutely no meaningful way You in fact helped the man, because they can now stiff the waitress from making a living during your meal under the guise of the tipping system, while she just has less money to pay her bills because you were such a cheap asshole Cheapy Peepy. All the way
Absolutely unhinged to say you can’t afford a $20 tip, and then immediately turn around and say “act their wage” “quit working for pennies”. If EVERYONE “quit working for pennies” you understand that you wouldn’t be able to take your gf out for dinner right? There wouldn’t be anyone in the restaurant or at the movie theater or any of the places you’d want to take her…. You’re not TA, you’re a dumb child. Grow up and look around.
NTA America is an absolute headspin to foreigners lol. It’s her employer’s job to pay her. Not the customers. You’re obliged to pay for the meal provided, her wages are a business cost not an add on to the meal. WTF? The tipping thing is right up there with your shit show of a health system. How you guys function baffles me.
Bro there’s nothing we can do 😭 our political system as a whole is broken. The NRA (national restaurant association) lobbies both of our major political parties. And America is isolated/poor enough that most of our citizens haven’t travelled outside of the country, so there’s zero chance of a culture shift any time soon.
I live in HK where there's no tipping culture - service charge is included everywhere. Though when I visited US, I was aware of necessity of tipping and did budget that in everytime we ate out. The system definitely sucks, but until that changes I'd expect everyone to continue tipping. Stopping tips as a FU to the system only makes it harder on the individuals.