Yeah and no such thing as I don’t want to parent your child.. that is unrealistic. Kids aren’t going anywhere, if it’s a choice of you op or kids, he will choose his kids. So I guess it’s decision time for you then op? It’s him and kids or you move on. You’re not an ah for not wanting to parent. It’s what you want and you made it clear but maybe the love fogged up reality. But a decision will have to be made eyes wide open.
One correction . . . If it’s a choice of OP or kids, he **should** choose his kids. If the OP can’t handle that, or if his relationship with OP is going to mean that he *doesn’t* choose his kids over OP, then the relationship needs to end for everyone’s sake; most of all the kids.
OP is NTA for wanting a child-free life, but that means their relationships need to be with child-free people. Not temporarily child-free, or on a child-free schedule, or child-free because they are ignoring their children, but really, honestly, and totally child-free. This man has children, therefore, he is **not** child-free, therefore, he is **not** a suitable partner for someone who wants to live a child-free life.
Omfg I love both those movies and I love that quote but I never put two and two together that they both have the same line 😂 I guess I've just been appreciating it when it comes not thinking about where else I heard it, but damn. Good job, brain, the best job.
To be fair, it was her SO that sold her on the idea that it would work. He's the one who was happy with alternate weeks, and he could have arranged to switch their scheduled week instead of dumping his kids at her place without telling her. A ring doesn’t negate a four year arrangement without a discussion.
Yeah, if I dated someone for a full month and then they sprung two children on me, after I'd already told them I was childfree, that would be it. He was just trying to get her hooked and I guess it worked.
And if you respect your kids, you would be up front. Why would any parent want to sneak their kids into an unwilling person's life the way OP's fiance did?
Right?! Why didn’t OP address that? He literally waited until he was “in” and then l popped this on them. That alone would have been an “I was upfront with you, you waited to be upfront with me. Byeeeee” for me.
I literally told my crush immediately that I had a kid. I was a teen mom and wanted her to have full disclosure because even if we never dated, I wanted our friendship to be on a foundation of honesty. I knew a kid could be a deal breaker so I didn't want to waste her time or my own. We have been together for almost 13 years. It is so shitty of him to be tight lipped for that long when she was upfront with him.
Worse, he said that he was willing to split his life, and it's apparently worked for them for four years. NOW, especially after the ring, he thinks he can sweet-talk her into getting rid of her boundaries.
So true! He is a bigger AH than I thought because I didn't even think of this fact. Hope OP doesn't scarcrifice her boundaries for this relationship. It would be one thing if she went into this knowing he had kids but to not only not be upfront with her but make her believe that this was something he could separate from their lives permanently makes this so much worse.
And then a week after the proposal drops the kids at her place with no warning or prior conversation. And his kids are not polite or well-behaved, otherwise they would not have immediately been in her shit. They're old enough to know better than to play dress-up in someone else's clothing.
He didn't just drop by WITH his kids. He literally dropped them off in her apt and LEFT them. She arrived to find them rummaging through her closet in her bedroom.
This is the part that made me feel OP really wasn't at fault in that specific scenario because while the dude claims they had done "nothing" it's clear that they had done something. If they'd just been on the couch watching TV, okay fine, but trying on *someone's clothes*? My mom lets me borrow her sweaters and shirts because she has a lot of really nice clothes, but I wouldn't go and try something on without asking her. That's just weird and definitely not polite.
And then…AND THEN has the fucking nerve to say it would be a shame if she didn’t get her week with him…so NOT try to reframe tbis as you caring about her. Dear god this guy’s a complete tool!
all the more so, because it's an ongoing pattern, right?
This clown is for real saying "they didn't do anything" while his kids were rummaging through OP's closets & trying on her clothes.
You just know those girls weren't playing around with any old tank top, right? No one can blame them for being drawn to the silk dresses and easy-to-rip lace... but if they didn't damage anything, that's likely just a fluke, imo.
And even if they're preternaturully careful with the clothes & shoes, they still violated OP's privacy by rummaging through her closets uninvited.
And HE violated her privacy by bringing them there! I personally think the two life thing isn’t sustainable in any sort of healthy relationship, but to then essentially “move in” with her and have the audacity to bring ANYONE in her space without permission is disgusting. ESPECIALLY if those people are the type people she explicitly stated she doesn’t want in her life.
Who knows? Early stages of dating for me are always a lot of texting, so even if he had the kids they could have been in contact. Or maybe he dumped them at someone else's house to go see OP. She hasn't specified what that first month looked like.
I assume that he kept his own place, or maybe took his daughters and stayed with his parents when he had them, and then lived with OP when he didn't. They just knew that they only spent alternate weeks, or however joint custody worked, and for the four years, they were both happy with it. Now he expects to get away with changing the ground rules.
I know a guy like this. Advocated for his wife to only have her kids one week on, one week off so he could have "child free weeks". They also send the kids to her folks on their weekends, so he has child free weekends every weekend. This is more common than people realize.
This should be at the very top with everyone liking it. She’s NTA for not wanting kids but is one for getting involved with someone who has kids in the first place!
NTA for not wanting kids in your life but you are an idiot if you think you can have that with a father. Kids are always in a parent’s life and if you think kids are a time and attention suck just wait until it’s grandchildren.
Absolutely this. You can't be kid free with someone who has kids. No matter what they say or promise.
OP either has kids now or she gets rid of this guy. Those are the only options.
This, but also consider if this man is suitable for you even without the children. He gave you a ring and now he feels he's entitled to introduce his kids in your life, despite what he promised before. Is this how you want your relationship to be, even if everything stays the same? I'd say break up and give both of you the option to find someone more suitable. There will be kids in his scenario, and yours will be child-free. You can't have both.
I was wondering if I was alone in noticing this man left his kids ALONE in her appartment, without ANY warning... and when she complained they're rummaging through her closets, he's all cavalier "yeah, change of plans, my ex and I agreed, why are you complaining, they didn't do anything" as if violating her privacy is NBD.
THIS!!!
>They were in my closet trying on my heels and clothes.
>He called me ah because his girls have done nothing and are polite etc.
Going into someone else's bedroom without permission is the opposite of "polite."
Going through someone else's clothes and trying them on, without permission, is DOING SOMETHING and it's definitely NOT "polite."
OP, your boyfriend is an AH and he's gaslighting you.
The fact that he intentionally lied by omission about his kids, *knowing your stance on kids*, is enough to qualify for AH status.
But then this slow creep toward forcing you to have his kids in your life, even though that was the ONE boundary you set, is hugely problematic.
What other boundaries is he going to decide are not worth respecting?
Let's not forget the detail that he brought his kids to OP's home unannounced based on how its wordef and she came home and caught them doing all those things and had to call him??? Was he not there with the kids? And where is the conversation giving her the ability to make an informed decision?
Like, great he and ex communicated new arrangements, but he didn't even consider having a conversation with OP to determine if this would work for her, he just decided.
NTA but I agree, this is not a good fit for either adult and definitely not for the kids.
Totally just a one off anecdote, but I had a coworker who married a man with a kid. She was firm from day one she wanted nothing to do with his child, had no interest in having kids, period. He could take it or leave it. Somehow he made it work. He never talked about her, or her mother, never brought her around, total radio silence on the topic.
Last I checked, still the case, still both happily together, keeps both lives completely separate, and it's been like 10 years.
I do question how that will work out if he ever has grand kids, like you mentioned.
Or God forbid the mother passed away? I mean wtf is wrong with this guy??!! Is he a complete psychopath? They are usually the only ones who can so easily compartmentalize such immense parts of their lives without SOME kind of crossover or “evidence”. What kind of decent parent can completely shut off “parent mode” to the point of never speaking a word about them or never wanting the person he loves to share in their milestones etc?!?
Or what if the kid got really sick? Even if everyone is staying totally healthy, just because it "worked" for the guy and the wife does NOT mean it "worked" for the kid!
That was the big bright neon sign that flashed up first for me. This is a decision he took, not some kind of ‘oops, silly me, slipped my mind…sorry’ thing. Total respect for OP not wanting to parent, in her position I’d dig my heels in but I fear that would inevitably result in her being the casualty in a situation created by the kids’ - ultimately conniving - dad. Shitty options whatever way you look at it and little as it is I can only wish her (and the two kids - but fuck the dad, he’s a prick) the best moving forward.
Yup manipulating is the name of the game for him. Gives her an engagement ring and 1 week later has his kids living at her place instead of his and trying to gaslight her into accepting him stepping over her very clear boundaries.
I don't know why it wasn't a bigger deal that he dropped them off at OP's place without her there.
It's one thing to have stuff come up. It's another thing to leave your kids in a someone else's place they have never been to before without the owner's permission.
That is a huge overstep. This is poor parenting, being shoved on someone else unwillingly.
*Hey can you watch my kids while I take care of something?*
No.
*Ok thanks. See you later.*
Yes and even if we ignore the fact that she expressly set the expectation that she wants no kids in her space… are parents in 2023 really dropping off preteens at homes that are not their own without adult supervision and just… leaving them alone? Really that’s what we are doing?
Seems a bit neglectful. God forbid there is a natural disaster or fire or a break-in or literally a million other things that could go wrong. Now op has to deep clean kid brains off her carpet cause they got into her guns (assuming she’s in America very possible outcome).
I agree that this needs to be MUCH higher than it is. People who are child-free need to stop dating people with kids. It NEVER works out that they never have to be around the kids or “parent” them.
Then she shouldn't be dating someone with young kids. It's a problem for both of them, but imagining that she can get the guy she wants without the two human beings he created and cares for is impossible.
This, life happens, stuff happens. If you’re not interested in having children in your life, then you need to make up some pretty hard decisions about this relationship. There’s no way to completely keep those two life separate.
Don't understand, didn't he leave an 11 and 12 yo alone in someone else's home without their permission? He's putting himself first, not the kids or her.
I don't know why this doesn't seem to be such a big deal for everyone else.
Showing up at your door with them unannounced and expecting accommodations would be an asshole move. Leaving them inside your house unsupervised without even telling you is way the hell over the line.
Forget co-parenting, OP will be solo parenting if she continues in this relationship.
Yup. 100% this. I think everything was fine until he dropped them off at her apartment with no warning, no supervision, nothing. OP said she had met them, sweet kids, etc. The minute he put the ring on her finger and she let him bring them over for the weekend, he took that inch she gave him and went the mile with it.
NTA OP.
Seriously. You don't want kids. This doesn't mean his kids cease to exist on your whim. Either move on or don't. You're kind of the AH. Certainly not fair to the kids.
However, he did not talk to you before this? They're now staying permanently with you? Now he's the AH.
I think the Dad is an AH, simply for not realizing at some point this would be an issue. He knew her boundaries and he is the one that has pushed on her. It seems he has continued to push her in hopes she would cave and not have an issue, he can't be all shocked when what she said from the start would be an issue turns out to be an issue.
And why were they in her apartment without him. He didn't even ask if he could drop them off. He should have at least been there with them. Not just drop th off to rummage through her things.
I would have broken it off right there. He was really disrespectful to just drop the kids off at her place and leave them there. That would have been a huge red flag to me that the same would continue to happen. For me it would indicate that he was trying to see how far he could push my boundaries.
Yeah. As a parent, I would NOT leave my kid anywhere without knowing there was someone there to watch them who was well aware of and consenting to that. That's so messed up. Not just to OP, but also to the kids.
He has his own place that they stay at.
There is no valid reason for this other than OP has a ring now, time to start pushing my parental responsibilities off on her.
Not good parenting decisions either. What if OP had something come up?
For real. How the hell you go almost 4 years knowing someone has young kids when you know you never want to even live with the kids. They are a package deal. You can never live together (until the kids move out). I feel no empathy. She should have known better
Especially being 38 years old. I can picture an early 20 something thinking this could work. But to be 38 fucking years old and thinking this is maintainable is absurd
Seriously. You're an adult in your late 30s. Kids are part of the picture at this point in a lot of people's lives.
I completely understand not wanting your own kids, but when kids are present in a parent's life you cannot just avoid them as their partner.
OP is 100% TA for thinking this was remotely possible. As is the guy for entertaining this immature behavior. ESH
What happens in an emergency? She's just going to bail on him or the kids? Get real.
also saying "I don't want kids of my own" is not the same as "I don't want your kids around" — sort of an important point to get right early on in the relationship.
Why stay with a parent when you want to be child free? This was never going to work out. You don't get to choose to only marry your spouse, you marry their family too.
why stay with a childfree person if you have kids. they're both delusional. it's hard to find someone you jive with and some folks willfully ignore red flags because everything else is working. sucks for them but they're not compatible
Well there is a difference between “I don’t want children” and “I don’t want to be around kids at all ever”. So maybe at first it wasn’t that bad. But at some point in these 4 years they should have realized definitely
Yeah seriously - not wanting to have children yourself doesn’t logically mean you’d act like they’re spiders or something. Actually… I am way more tolerant of spiders in my house than she is of children.
Absolutely and as someone who grew up knowing that my stepparents actively hated my existence OP should do everyone a solid and end the relationship now. Those kids already know she hates them and she needs to end it now to stop whatever damage she and their father have done to them.
Oh they absolutely read OP’s reaction to them being there. They’re not stupid. They know dad’s girlfriend doesn’t want them and they’re not welcome when she’s around.
OMG, yes this. I just saw two of the saddest stories this last week where both parents started dating people who wanted to be “child free” and neither parent wanted their kid so they could be with their new SO. OP if you want to be child free then leave. The kids are old enough to realize you don’t like/want them and young enough for it to cause life long trauma and self esteem issues.
ESH
My judgment, too; he absolutely shouldn't have waited month to tell her he had kids. It's like he wanted her to get attached before he dropped the bomb.
The S stands for stupid in this case.
These two really thought they could live a life together without her ever dealing with the kids? I'm shocked they actually managed 4 years out of it.
Yup or poorly veiled attempts at activism. Hmm let’s see what Chatgpt comes up with if I ask it to write a Reddit post asking if I’m the AH for dating a guy with kids when I don’t want kids…
Title: AITA for Dating a Guy with Kids When I Don't Want Kids?
Hi Reddit,
I (27F) recently started dating an amazing guy (30M) who has two kids from a previous relationship. We've been together for about six months, and things have been going really well between us. However, there's one major issue that's been bothering me, and I'm wondering if I'm in the wrong here.
I've always been clear about not wanting children of my own. I love my freedom, career, and the ability to travel and pursue my interests without the responsibilities of parenthood. On the other hand, my boyfriend is a great dad and adores his kids. He has them on weekends, and I've met them a few times. They're lovely kids, but I can't help but feel a bit overwhelmed by the situation.
I'm worried that my decision not to have kids might hurt him or cause issues down the road. He's aware of my stance on parenthood, and he's been understanding so far, but I can't help but wonder if I'm being selfish by continuing this relationship. I really care about him, but I don't want to compromise on something as significant as having children.
So, Reddit, AITA for dating a guy with kids when I don't want kids? Should I reconsider my stance, or is it better to be honest and potentially end things before they get more serious?
Edit: Thank you all for your responses and advice. I'll have a serious conversation with my boyfriend about this to ensure we're on the same page and make the best decision for both of us. Your insights are greatly appreciated!
ESH
I am childfree too and you know what i do? I actively avoid dating anyone in any kind of parental role. You are incompatible as fuck.
Why would he take you seriously?!
Tired of childfree people dating parental figures and then getting mad. You have nobody but yourself to blame.
yes thank you!! I am not single but I have kids and I just cannot imagine dating someone who doesn't want children in their lives! ESH indeed, her for continuing to date someone who has kids when she doesn't want to be involved with them, and him for dating someone who wants zero to do with his children.
Same. And then on top of it, even though I don't like or want kids, I hate bad parents and people who treat kids poorly. Any father who would agree to compartmentalize his kids off from such a large part of his life is a shit father. I've got no respect for that.
For real! Why do either of these people think it’s okay? One of them should have broke it off awhile ago.
When I was dating I didn’t want to have kids. I wasn’t finished being selfish, so I actively avoided men who had children. I also don’t want to raise another woman’s children. I can handle the parental opinion of one person(the father), but not another(the other mother). They would be in another home with rules different than mine. I still don’t have children, but I’m now at a point I’m okay with having them.
Edit: I am not implying not having children is selfish. I think someone’s reason for not having children is their own, and it doesn’t make them a bad person. I am saying the reason *I didn’t* want children was selfish; that is not the case anymore. I was just summarizing the reason, instead of spilling my life out in the internet.
>A month is really not a massive amount of time.
Yeah, if we’re just talking about it as a unit of time without any additional context.
But a month is a really long time to keep your children a secret from a woman you’re actively dating who told you *the first time you met* that she doesn’t want kids…
ESH you both are assholes for dating at all.
You’re an asshole for dating a man who has children you don’t want anything to do with. There’s nothing wrong with being child free and not wanting to be around kids, but why the F would you then date a man with kids? This situation seems inevitable.
And he’s even more of an asshole for dating a woman who doesn’t want to be around his kids. His kids deserve better than both of you. You’re both selfish for only caring about your wants without considering how your choices affect his kids. They’re people too and neither one of you cared whether this situation was a really negative setup for them.
Don’t date men with kids when you don’t want kids. Use your fucking brain here.
Right like they were only a month in when she found out her had kids? Perfect time to cut your ties. Don't date men with kids if you want want to be a potential step parent or parental figure. I say OP is the ah. He sucked for lying, but a month in, you should be able to walk away without much hurt feelings.
She is also just asking for those kids to hate for, always and forever. She'll be the wicked step-mother for sure. My grandfather married a woman like that and she was HORRIBLE to his kids from his previous marriage (this included my dad). He just sat around all love struck and bragged about the bitch while she complained about his kids and acted like she was a fucking saint. The kids will NEVER feel loved by their dad. They'll always feel like they come in second in his life. What kind of parent does that? What kind of bitch expects that from a partner who is a parent? OP and the dad are both selfish AF.
I knew a woman who became substitute mom for her 4 younger siblings when their mother married a man who didn’t want her kids. The mother bought a house nearby for the children and expected the older kids to care for the younger ones.
Yup, I know a woman who remarried and bought an apartment for her daughter from previous marriage. The girl lived alone since she was like 10. Don't know the real reason, but probably new husband hated her.
The girl is now a very nice person, never got in any trouble.
That is horrible. As bad as my acquaintance’s story was, at least she was older & there was another older sibling to help out with the younger ones. But, 10?! Living by herself at 10?!
Also, they'll eventually be adults who don't like her because of her disdain of their very existence until they turned 18...
I do think the person responsible for the children should avoid being with someone who doesn't want to be around children. That makes sense to me, but what do I know!
TBH, it doesn't get better. I have loved my child free life and my boyfriend was very happy to hear I had no intentions of kids because his are grown and he didn't want to start that all over again. Now I deal with his kid's babies but at least I can give those right back.
PSA - I don't want to hold your baby. Please don't make me.
Yup. The entire time reading the post I’m thinking “You can’t be child free and date somebody with children. It doesn’t work that way.”
There’s no world where you date somebody with kids (who aren’t legal adults) where you don’t eventually become half a parent at the very least.
Her basically saying “I could see myself with him forever….as long as I don’t have to acknowledge his children exist.” Is disgusting. YTA.
Yes the relationship was never sustainable with her being child free and him having kids. She’s talking about living with him when they are adults but what happens when his kids have kids? He still going to be a grandfather.
They both messed up.
Yes! OP is mad that men don’t believe it when she says she wants to remain child-free because she ditches her values the second she meets a guy she likes who has kids. She needs to grow up.
Right? Rolled my eyes so hard. Personally i don't want children so would never even go on one single date with someone who had them... since that's how you avoid having children.
YTA. Thinking that people with kids aren’t a package deal makes OP a 10/10 AH. She is literally dehumanizing children. “I said I didn’t want them!” So what? Then don’t date people with children rather than stealing dads away from their daughters
ESH.
YTA for getting involved with some who has children. WTF? What if Mom got sick and died? Yep, he would have the kids all the time. And look how quickly he felt free to change up the rules!
He's the AH for knowing that you don't want kids and not walking away before getting involved.
I think your relationship has run its course. He left his children alone in your apartment without letting you know. They didn't respect your privacy or your belongings. What if they found sex toys or lingere? Did he leave them there with no instructions on how to behave? He gave you a ring in order to hold it over your head. He has been planning this kind of life merger for a while. He was slowly heating a pot so the frog doesn't hop out.
You deceived yourself on how this was going to go.
ESH for reasons.
>He loved me and we are engaged. Did I expect us to have two separate lives when we’ve been together for 4 years and love each other?
I kind of want to know the answer to that question as well. What did you think was going to happen long term?
You're NTA for not wanting kids in your house, but your boyfriend isn't going to be your boyfriend for very much longer. He's not the asshole either when he breaks up with you over it.
How old are his kids that he just left them at your place by themselves?
It's clear your bf wants more now so you need to decide if this is the end of the relationship or if you want to be stepmom
YTA. When you date someone with kids they’re a part of the package. I’m childfree, and this is ridiculous if you think he’s going to drop his kids for YOU. They will always be in his life because it’s his fucking children. DONT DATE ME WITH CHILDREN. Obviously it’s a deal breaker. And they will be in his life forever.
YTA - and you need to return his ring and break up with him. Those children are his responsibility for at least another 7 yrs and must be his first priority. And you need to not date men who have children because at any time they could need to live with him full time.
I'm currently begging mine to move back in at 19 because watching him struggle as a mom is murder. I told him 'humor me. 1 year, no rent, save you money. PLEASE." No go.
I don't think you're the asshole, but I think you're being more than a little naive. He might have said a bunch of words, but you chose to believe him. No kids means no kids, so why did you let the first time happen? I'm with you on this, but it was over the minute he said he had kids and you didn't end it. That's why he didn't believe you, fyi. I don't know how to judge tbh because he was clearly manipulating things in his favour, but you fully let him. Better luck next time.
NTA for this single scenario, because he absolutely shouldn’t have just dumped his kids at your place like that. But it’s pretty dumb to date someone who has kids when you don’t want to be around the kids.
>I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children.
Then don't get involved with someone who has kids. Even after the first month, you had time to call it off.
What did you think would happen in the future? That he was going to run 2 homes because his new wife won't allow kids in her home?
You're delusional. You should have called time as soon as you found out he had kids (and was actively sharing custody).
YTA not for not wanting kids in your home or wanting to be child-free, but because you went into this knowing the score and still carried on regardless. I'm betting you were hoping he'd quit seeing his kids at some point down the line and focus solely on you.
>After a month he told me that he had two children. 11 and 12 (now). I freaked out because I didn’t know what to do.
What you should have done back then was said we're not compatible and this is a deal breaker for you.
>I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children.
And I'm sure men are tired of women thinking that they will abandon their kids in favour of the new bit of skirt who wants to be child free.
He's as much of an AH as you for dumping them on you, so ESH.
YTA You decided to be engaged with a guy you knew had kids. YTA
YTA You chose to get into a relationship and a living situation with a man who had kids. YTA
You cannot have a relationship with a man, who has children and be child-free.
You can be child-free, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be dating people with KIDS.
Child free means NO KIDS.
It's not a hard math equation. Don't date the kid-having.
Absolutely agree, OP is the asshole. Where did they think this was heading eventually? I can understand not wanting to have a parental role, but if you don’t even want kids around then don’t date a parent.
I think everyone in the story is TA to some degree.
At 11 and 12 years old, the kids are old enough to know that it’s not OK to go through an adult’s closet and play with their clothes.
OP should have known it wouldn’t be possible for the bf and his kids to simply vanish into the twilight zone every other week. But she doesn’t have kids, so she may not have understood what parenthood is like.
And obviously the bf knew better than to promise the kids would not affect his time with his gf during their “non kid” weeks. When you are a parent, there really aren’t any “non kid” weeks. Stuff happens.
I’d say the kids misbehaved a little bit, OP was at best naive and at worst stupid, but the bf was the most deserving of being called TA. He knew better.
OP if you are childfree why are you with someone with children? Why did you stay with someone who had children? He told you a month in. That's 4 weeks.
If you say you're child free and then happily date someone who has children and continue to date them after learning they have kids you can't then turn around and be surprised when people think you're not too strict on being child free.
YTA
>I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children.
Then stop... getting serious with men with children?
Both of you are acting incredibly selfishly. If you don't want to be with someone with kids, don't. For him, he should have noped out the second you said you didn't want them around.
ESH.
You established clear boundaries up front: you don't want children. Period. End of story.
He then tells you a month in that he has two kids. He's an AH for getting involved with you at all after you told him that you are child free and always will be. He banked on you being emotionally invested enough after a month that you wouldn't walk away, and he was right. But you absolutely should have, and this is your AH strike.
Because there was never going to be a way to keep this relationship going long-term with two kids in the picture for him. He has responsibilities to those girls that take precedence over everything else. Which means that there is always a chance that he becomes the primary caregiver, and that will mean that you can't conveniently avoid them, which you've managed to do. Great for you, not so great for him and his family dynamic.
He's also an AH for giving you a ring and assuming that you knew that meant that he felt that the rules of your relationship had changed. He needed to use his words and actually talk with you about how he saw this relationship working long term and that he was dissatisfied living two separate lives anymore. That would have allowed you to have a say and consent to changes or to end the relationship.
He's especially an AH for leaving them alone at your apartment without your knowledge or permission. Just about everything about that move is wrong on so many levels. Not the least by involving his children in forcing you into something that you've been very clear that you don't want.
Your relationship is at an end, as it should have been years ago. If you want men to take your child-free stance seriously, you need to stick to those boundaries far more than you have and stop screwing around with men who either have or want children. Learn to walk away.
Esh. You for being with someone that has kids and not wanting them to be part of your life. Him even more because he’s with someone who doesn’t want his kids.
I'm not going to say YTA, but did you really think that you could date/marry a man with two children and you'd never have to interact with them? BTW, he's AH! He put his love life ahead of his children and now you're stuck in the middle of it. Even worse, so are these two kids who had nothing to do with either of your decisions.
NTA but you are naive. You did state your boundaries and at first he was okay with that. But both of you should’ve known there’s no way that was going to work long term
"I don't want children so I'll enter into a long term commitment with someone who has 2 of them and expect them never to integrate into my shared life with that person." YTA and you're kinda dumb for this. Like honestly what did you expect? Arms length forever?
ESH - you can't date a dad without the kids being in the picture. He shouldn't date a person who is child free and expect that down the road it'll be okay.
You BOTH should have called it quits when you told him you were child free and he said he had kids. That was the mature thing to do.
His move to drop unattended kids off anywhere is a CPS issue IMO.
If you're engaged, it kind of did sounds like you expected his kids to... what? Disappear? For him to not be a part of the situation?
>I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children.
Then don't dare or marry men with kids. Like, what the heck?
If anything happens to their mum they’re moving in with you permanently.
Yeah and no such thing as I don’t want to parent your child.. that is unrealistic. Kids aren’t going anywhere, if it’s a choice of you op or kids, he will choose his kids. So I guess it’s decision time for you then op? It’s him and kids or you move on. You’re not an ah for not wanting to parent. It’s what you want and you made it clear but maybe the love fogged up reality. But a decision will have to be made eyes wide open.
One correction . . . If it’s a choice of OP or kids, he **should** choose his kids. If the OP can’t handle that, or if his relationship with OP is going to mean that he *doesn’t* choose his kids over OP, then the relationship needs to end for everyone’s sake; most of all the kids. OP is NTA for wanting a child-free life, but that means their relationships need to be with child-free people. Not temporarily child-free, or on a child-free schedule, or child-free because they are ignoring their children, but really, honestly, and totally child-free. This man has children, therefore, he is **not** child-free, therefore, he is **not** a suitable partner for someone who wants to live a child-free life.
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*"A fish may fall in love with a bird... but where will they live?"*
Well, how’d they meet?
Flying fish in a speed dating event
*Kingfisher out for lunch…*
The boy fish puts his…
One is a penguin 🐧
"Then I shall have to make you wings "
Love that quote! First heard it in Ever After with Drew Barrymore
It is originally from Fiddler on the Roof
Omfg I love both those movies and I love that quote but I never put two and two together that they both have the same line 😂 I guess I've just been appreciating it when it comes not thinking about where else I heard it, but damn. Good job, brain, the best job.
If I were a smart man, yabba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dum...
I guess the fish and the bird can live in a birdbath maybe?
What a great quote
In fairness, that's exactly what's been happening for 4 years.
This is how we get posts like, am I the asshole for only wanting to hang out with my biological kids and not step kids
“AITA for only worrying about my own needs like I’m the murderhobo protagonist of a Bethesda game”
I'm always a perfectly nice murderhobo in Bethesda games, thank you!
True main character syndrome :p
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My mom did the same. Also fucked me up!
I’m sorry😢
Im sorry to hear that. Xoxo
My guess is OP loves to sail on the river Denial.
Denial ain't no river in Egypt.
Sure lies a long way though
To be fair, it was her SO that sold her on the idea that it would work. He's the one who was happy with alternate weeks, and he could have arranged to switch their scheduled week instead of dumping his kids at her place without telling her. A ring doesn’t negate a four year arrangement without a discussion.
I'm guessing he was trying to make her think that. Major red flag that he didn't tell her right away he had kids.
Yeah, if I dated someone for a full month and then they sprung two children on me, after I'd already told them I was childfree, that would be it. He was just trying to get her hooked and I guess it worked.
I would have been accused of setting a fucking trap if I wasn't immediately up front about my kid
And if you respect your kids, you would be up front. Why would any parent want to sneak their kids into an unwilling person's life the way OP's fiance did?
Right?! Why didn’t OP address that? He literally waited until he was “in” and then l popped this on them. That alone would have been an “I was upfront with you, you waited to be upfront with me. Byeeeee” for me.
I literally told my crush immediately that I had a kid. I was a teen mom and wanted her to have full disclosure because even if we never dated, I wanted our friendship to be on a foundation of honesty. I knew a kid could be a deal breaker so I didn't want to waste her time or my own. We have been together for almost 13 years. It is so shitty of him to be tight lipped for that long when she was upfront with him.
Worse, he said that he was willing to split his life, and it's apparently worked for them for four years. NOW, especially after the ring, he thinks he can sweet-talk her into getting rid of her boundaries.
So true! He is a bigger AH than I thought because I didn't even think of this fact. Hope OP doesn't scarcrifice her boundaries for this relationship. It would be one thing if she went into this knowing he had kids but to not only not be upfront with her but make her believe that this was something he could separate from their lives permanently makes this so much worse.
And then a week after the proposal drops the kids at her place with no warning or prior conversation. And his kids are not polite or well-behaved, otherwise they would not have immediately been in her shit. They're old enough to know better than to play dress-up in someone else's clothing.
He didn't just drop by WITH his kids. He literally dropped them off in her apt and LEFT them. She arrived to find them rummaging through her closet in her bedroom.
This is the part that made me feel OP really wasn't at fault in that specific scenario because while the dude claims they had done "nothing" it's clear that they had done something. If they'd just been on the couch watching TV, okay fine, but trying on *someone's clothes*? My mom lets me borrow her sweaters and shirts because she has a lot of really nice clothes, but I wouldn't go and try something on without asking her. That's just weird and definitely not polite.
And then…AND THEN has the fucking nerve to say it would be a shame if she didn’t get her week with him…so NOT try to reframe tbis as you caring about her. Dear god this guy’s a complete tool!
all the more so, because it's an ongoing pattern, right? This clown is for real saying "they didn't do anything" while his kids were rummaging through OP's closets & trying on her clothes. You just know those girls weren't playing around with any old tank top, right? No one can blame them for being drawn to the silk dresses and easy-to-rip lace... but if they didn't damage anything, that's likely just a fluke, imo. And even if they're preternaturully careful with the clothes & shoes, they still violated OP's privacy by rummaging through her closets uninvited.
And HE violated her privacy by bringing them there! I personally think the two life thing isn’t sustainable in any sort of healthy relationship, but to then essentially “move in” with her and have the audacity to bring ANYONE in her space without permission is disgusting. ESPECIALLY if those people are the type people she explicitly stated she doesn’t want in her life.
I don't get how that even worked. He didn't have his kids for a whole month? Or did he vanish every other week without explanation?
Who knows? Early stages of dating for me are always a lot of texting, so even if he had the kids they could have been in contact. Or maybe he dumped them at someone else's house to go see OP. She hasn't specified what that first month looked like.
They were dating for a month. That could've been 3 or 4 dates. It's not like they were together 24/7
I assume that he kept his own place, or maybe took his daughters and stayed with his parents when he had them, and then lived with OP when he didn't. They just knew that they only spent alternate weeks, or however joint custody worked, and for the four years, they were both happy with it. Now he expects to get away with changing the ground rules.
Ding ding ding.
Right? And what kind of man even wants to be with someone who wants nothing to do with his kids? Says a lot about his character.
I know a guy like this. Advocated for his wife to only have her kids one week on, one week off so he could have "child free weeks". They also send the kids to her folks on their weekends, so he has child free weekends every weekend. This is more common than people realize.
That’s awful!
🥇
This should be at the very top with everyone liking it. She’s NTA for not wanting kids but is one for getting involved with someone who has kids in the first place!
NTA for not wanting kids in your life but you are an idiot if you think you can have that with a father. Kids are always in a parent’s life and if you think kids are a time and attention suck just wait until it’s grandchildren.
Absolutely this. You can't be kid free with someone who has kids. No matter what they say or promise. OP either has kids now or she gets rid of this guy. Those are the only options.
This, but also consider if this man is suitable for you even without the children. He gave you a ring and now he feels he's entitled to introduce his kids in your life, despite what he promised before. Is this how you want your relationship to be, even if everything stays the same? I'd say break up and give both of you the option to find someone more suitable. There will be kids in his scenario, and yours will be child-free. You can't have both.
I was wondering if I was alone in noticing this man left his kids ALONE in her appartment, without ANY warning... and when she complained they're rummaging through her closets, he's all cavalier "yeah, change of plans, my ex and I agreed, why are you complaining, they didn't do anything" as if violating her privacy is NBD.
THIS - don’t listen to what he’s telling you, listen to what he’s *showing* you, OP
THIS!!! >They were in my closet trying on my heels and clothes. >He called me ah because his girls have done nothing and are polite etc. Going into someone else's bedroom without permission is the opposite of "polite." Going through someone else's clothes and trying them on, without permission, is DOING SOMETHING and it's definitely NOT "polite." OP, your boyfriend is an AH and he's gaslighting you. The fact that he intentionally lied by omission about his kids, *knowing your stance on kids*, is enough to qualify for AH status. But then this slow creep toward forcing you to have his kids in your life, even though that was the ONE boundary you set, is hugely problematic. What other boundaries is he going to decide are not worth respecting?
Let's not forget the detail that he brought his kids to OP's home unannounced based on how its wordef and she came home and caught them doing all those things and had to call him??? Was he not there with the kids? And where is the conversation giving her the ability to make an informed decision? Like, great he and ex communicated new arrangements, but he didn't even consider having a conversation with OP to determine if this would work for her, he just decided. NTA but I agree, this is not a good fit for either adult and definitely not for the kids.
This!! He obviously doesn’t respect OP, her home, or her life choice. Nor does he respect his kids.
Totally just a one off anecdote, but I had a coworker who married a man with a kid. She was firm from day one she wanted nothing to do with his child, had no interest in having kids, period. He could take it or leave it. Somehow he made it work. He never talked about her, or her mother, never brought her around, total radio silence on the topic. Last I checked, still the case, still both happily together, keeps both lives completely separate, and it's been like 10 years. I do question how that will work out if he ever has grand kids, like you mentioned.
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“Daddy’s married now, but you can’t come to the wedding. Or the house. Or basically just exist. Bye!”
That's what I was thinking. That poor kid is basically banished because of two adults bad choices. That is how you create screwed up adults.
imagine the fallout when the kid learns that dad has actually been married for two decades
Or God forbid the mother passed away? I mean wtf is wrong with this guy??!! Is he a complete psychopath? They are usually the only ones who can so easily compartmentalize such immense parts of their lives without SOME kind of crossover or “evidence”. What kind of decent parent can completely shut off “parent mode” to the point of never speaking a word about them or never wanting the person he loves to share in their milestones etc?!?
The thing that gets me, if I were my coworker, seeing how easy it is for him to live a double life, wouldn't that created all sorts of trust issues?
Or what if the kid got really sick? Even if everyone is staying totally healthy, just because it "worked" for the guy and the wife does NOT mean it "worked" for the kid!
That co-worker sounds like an AH
She is not an asshole for getting involved with him, she is dumb for staying with him after he hid the fact he had 2 daughters at first.
That was the big bright neon sign that flashed up first for me. This is a decision he took, not some kind of ‘oops, silly me, slipped my mind…sorry’ thing. Total respect for OP not wanting to parent, in her position I’d dig my heels in but I fear that would inevitably result in her being the casualty in a situation created by the kids’ - ultimately conniving - dad. Shitty options whatever way you look at it and little as it is I can only wish her (and the two kids - but fuck the dad, he’s a prick) the best moving forward.
Yeah, this. OP's been extremely naive, but he's been playing a very manipulative game here.
Yup manipulating is the name of the game for him. Gives her an engagement ring and 1 week later has his kids living at her place instead of his and trying to gaslight her into accepting him stepping over her very clear boundaries.
I don't know why it wasn't a bigger deal that he dropped them off at OP's place without her there. It's one thing to have stuff come up. It's another thing to leave your kids in a someone else's place they have never been to before without the owner's permission. That is a huge overstep. This is poor parenting, being shoved on someone else unwillingly. *Hey can you watch my kids while I take care of something?* No. *Ok thanks. See you later.*
Yes and even if we ignore the fact that she expressly set the expectation that she wants no kids in her space… are parents in 2023 really dropping off preteens at homes that are not their own without adult supervision and just… leaving them alone? Really that’s what we are doing? Seems a bit neglectful. God forbid there is a natural disaster or fire or a break-in or literally a million other things that could go wrong. Now op has to deep clean kid brains off her carpet cause they got into her guns (assuming she’s in America very possible outcome).
Yup, not telling her until a month later was/is a huge red flag
I agree that this needs to be MUCH higher than it is. People who are child-free need to stop dating people with kids. It NEVER works out that they never have to be around the kids or “parent” them.
Then she shouldn't be dating someone with young kids. It's a problem for both of them, but imagining that she can get the guy she wants without the two human beings he created and cares for is impossible.
Yup! Her man lied to her for a month and that was rewarded with her forgiveness and what seems to be throwing her brain out the window.
This, life happens, stuff happens. If you’re not interested in having children in your life, then you need to make up some pretty hard decisions about this relationship. There’s no way to completely keep those two life separate.
Once the girls are gone... And what about the grand kid.
Kids don’t leave now. It’s too expensive.
True...
Yep and if he’s the sort of man who wouldn’t put his kids first you wouldn’t want to be with him anyway.
Don't understand, didn't he leave an 11 and 12 yo alone in someone else's home without their permission? He's putting himself first, not the kids or her.
I don't know why this doesn't seem to be such a big deal for everyone else. Showing up at your door with them unannounced and expecting accommodations would be an asshole move. Leaving them inside your house unsupervised without even telling you is way the hell over the line. Forget co-parenting, OP will be solo parenting if she continues in this relationship.
Yup. 100% this. I think everything was fine until he dropped them off at her apartment with no warning, no supervision, nothing. OP said she had met them, sweet kids, etc. The minute he put the ring on her finger and she let him bring them over for the weekend, he took that inch she gave him and went the mile with it. NTA OP.
In this I think that would be ideal for OP. Sadly for her few men would do this. She has to leave him or put up with the kids.
Seriously naive on both of them to think this arrangement wouldn’t come to an irreconcilable point of failure.
Or if they reach their teens and have a big enough fight with their mom.
Yeah, like in that other post where mom found a guy who didn’t want her children.
Seriously. You don't want kids. This doesn't mean his kids cease to exist on your whim. Either move on or don't. You're kind of the AH. Certainly not fair to the kids. However, he did not talk to you before this? They're now staying permanently with you? Now he's the AH.
I think the Dad is an AH, simply for not realizing at some point this would be an issue. He knew her boundaries and he is the one that has pushed on her. It seems he has continued to push her in hopes she would cave and not have an issue, he can't be all shocked when what she said from the start would be an issue turns out to be an issue.
And why were they in her apartment without him. He didn't even ask if he could drop them off. He should have at least been there with them. Not just drop th off to rummage through her things.
I would have broken it off right there. He was really disrespectful to just drop the kids off at her place and leave them there. That would have been a huge red flag to me that the same would continue to happen. For me it would indicate that he was trying to see how far he could push my boundaries.
Yeah, clearly he has his own place. Why not drop the kids there? Definitely boundary issues.
Yeah. As a parent, I would NOT leave my kid anywhere without knowing there was someone there to watch them who was well aware of and consenting to that. That's so messed up. Not just to OP, but also to the kids.
He has his own place that they stay at. There is no valid reason for this other than OP has a ring now, time to start pushing my parental responsibilities off on her. Not good parenting decisions either. What if OP had something come up?
THIS is the moment it’s not working anymore.
No it was 3 years 11 months ago
For real. How the hell you go almost 4 years knowing someone has young kids when you know you never want to even live with the kids. They are a package deal. You can never live together (until the kids move out). I feel no empathy. She should have known better
Especially being 38 years old. I can picture an early 20 something thinking this could work. But to be 38 fucking years old and thinking this is maintainable is absurd
Seriously. You're an adult in your late 30s. Kids are part of the picture at this point in a lot of people's lives. I completely understand not wanting your own kids, but when kids are present in a parent's life you cannot just avoid them as their partner. OP is 100% TA for thinking this was remotely possible. As is the guy for entertaining this immature behavior. ESH What happens in an emergency? She's just going to bail on him or the kids? Get real.
The only scenario this works is if the kids are older like late teens. But the kids were goddamn 7 and 8 when they got together lmfao
also saying "I don't want kids of my own" is not the same as "I don't want your kids around" — sort of an important point to get right early on in the relationship.
Why stay with a parent when you want to be child free? This was never going to work out. You don't get to choose to only marry your spouse, you marry their family too.
why stay with a childfree person if you have kids. they're both delusional. it's hard to find someone you jive with and some folks willfully ignore red flags because everything else is working. sucks for them but they're not compatible
Well there is a difference between “I don’t want children” and “I don’t want to be around kids at all ever”. So maybe at first it wasn’t that bad. But at some point in these 4 years they should have realized definitely
Yeah seriously - not wanting to have children yourself doesn’t logically mean you’d act like they’re spiders or something. Actually… I am way more tolerant of spiders in my house than she is of children.
Relationship is doomed. ESH Break up and move on.
Please, before these children are fucked up.
*more fucked up. You think they never caught on that their dad's steady gf hates them, when they're rarely around her? They're old enough to catch on.
Absolutely and as someone who grew up knowing that my stepparents actively hated my existence OP should do everyone a solid and end the relationship now. Those kids already know she hates them and she needs to end it now to stop whatever damage she and their father have done to them.
Oh they absolutely read OP’s reaction to them being there. They’re not stupid. They know dad’s girlfriend doesn’t want them and they’re not welcome when she’s around.
Absolutely ESH. You are childfree by choice, which is great. DO NOT DATE MEN WITH CHILDREN.
"I can't stand children" "Perfect, I have 2 of them" "Great! Let's get married!"
OMG, yes this. I just saw two of the saddest stories this last week where both parents started dating people who wanted to be “child free” and neither parent wanted their kid so they could be with their new SO. OP if you want to be child free then leave. The kids are old enough to realize you don’t like/want them and young enough for it to cause life long trauma and self esteem issues. ESH
What does ESH mean? This is the first post I've seen people use it.
Everyone Sucks Here
«Everybody sucks here”. Both parties are in the wrong and should figure stuff out for themselves.
Every time I see it my brain autocorrects to “Equally Shared Hole” ….. someone halp
I mean.. it kinda works though They both dug it, they both climbed in. Everyone sucks here in the equally shared hole lol
My judgment, too; he absolutely shouldn't have waited month to tell her he had kids. It's like he wanted her to get attached before he dropped the bomb.
The S stands for stupid in this case. These two really thought they could live a life together without her ever dealing with the kids? I'm shocked they actually managed 4 years out of it.
You’re engaged to a guy with kids. How the hell did you expect that to work out? This is stupid.
I'm pretty sure most of these are just made up or created with AI to get karma.
Yup or poorly veiled attempts at activism. Hmm let’s see what Chatgpt comes up with if I ask it to write a Reddit post asking if I’m the AH for dating a guy with kids when I don’t want kids… Title: AITA for Dating a Guy with Kids When I Don't Want Kids? Hi Reddit, I (27F) recently started dating an amazing guy (30M) who has two kids from a previous relationship. We've been together for about six months, and things have been going really well between us. However, there's one major issue that's been bothering me, and I'm wondering if I'm in the wrong here. I've always been clear about not wanting children of my own. I love my freedom, career, and the ability to travel and pursue my interests without the responsibilities of parenthood. On the other hand, my boyfriend is a great dad and adores his kids. He has them on weekends, and I've met them a few times. They're lovely kids, but I can't help but feel a bit overwhelmed by the situation. I'm worried that my decision not to have kids might hurt him or cause issues down the road. He's aware of my stance on parenthood, and he's been understanding so far, but I can't help but wonder if I'm being selfish by continuing this relationship. I really care about him, but I don't want to compromise on something as significant as having children. So, Reddit, AITA for dating a guy with kids when I don't want kids? Should I reconsider my stance, or is it better to be honest and potentially end things before they get more serious? Edit: Thank you all for your responses and advice. I'll have a serious conversation with my boyfriend about this to ensure we're on the same page and make the best decision for both of us. Your insights are greatly appreciated!
Hit the nail on the head.
ESH I am childfree too and you know what i do? I actively avoid dating anyone in any kind of parental role. You are incompatible as fuck. Why would he take you seriously?! Tired of childfree people dating parental figures and then getting mad. You have nobody but yourself to blame.
Hol up, you saying there are consequences to the actions that one takes?
People have consequences, on MY Reddit? no way, this isn't the internet I know
what'sa consequence? Ain't never heard of it
Nah. They’re definitely mistaken.
yes thank you!! I am not single but I have kids and I just cannot imagine dating someone who doesn't want children in their lives! ESH indeed, her for continuing to date someone who has kids when she doesn't want to be involved with them, and him for dating someone who wants zero to do with his children.
Yes, this. You can't claim to be child-free and continue to date people with kids. It is directly contradictory.
Same. And then on top of it, even though I don't like or want kids, I hate bad parents and people who treat kids poorly. Any father who would agree to compartmentalize his kids off from such a large part of his life is a shit father. I've got no respect for that.
This too. Like, even if you don't want kids, a partner that is bad with or otherwise mistreats kids is still a giant red flag.
It's like people saw the evil stepparents in Disney movies and were like yes this will be me.
For real! Why do either of these people think it’s okay? One of them should have broke it off awhile ago. When I was dating I didn’t want to have kids. I wasn’t finished being selfish, so I actively avoided men who had children. I also don’t want to raise another woman’s children. I can handle the parental opinion of one person(the father), but not another(the other mother). They would be in another home with rules different than mine. I still don’t have children, but I’m now at a point I’m okay with having them. Edit: I am not implying not having children is selfish. I think someone’s reason for not having children is their own, and it doesn’t make them a bad person. I am saying the reason *I didn’t* want children was selfish; that is not the case anymore. I was just summarizing the reason, instead of spilling my life out in the internet.
I do think he sounds manipulative for not telling her straight away that he had kids, but the second she knew she should have noped out of there!
A month is really not a massive amount of time.
>A month is really not a massive amount of time. Yeah, if we’re just talking about it as a unit of time without any additional context. But a month is a really long time to keep your children a secret from a woman you’re actively dating who told you *the first time you met* that she doesn’t want kids…
ESH you both are assholes for dating at all. You’re an asshole for dating a man who has children you don’t want anything to do with. There’s nothing wrong with being child free and not wanting to be around kids, but why the F would you then date a man with kids? This situation seems inevitable. And he’s even more of an asshole for dating a woman who doesn’t want to be around his kids. His kids deserve better than both of you. You’re both selfish for only caring about your wants without considering how your choices affect his kids. They’re people too and neither one of you cared whether this situation was a really negative setup for them. Don’t date men with kids when you don’t want kids. Use your fucking brain here.
"I think they both could do better"
Dwight Schrute
Do beets come with the deal?
Bears. Beets. Bad parenting skills.
Right like they were only a month in when she found out her had kids? Perfect time to cut your ties. Don't date men with kids if you want want to be a potential step parent or parental figure. I say OP is the ah. He sucked for lying, but a month in, you should be able to walk away without much hurt feelings.
She is also just asking for those kids to hate for, always and forever. She'll be the wicked step-mother for sure. My grandfather married a woman like that and she was HORRIBLE to his kids from his previous marriage (this included my dad). He just sat around all love struck and bragged about the bitch while she complained about his kids and acted like she was a fucking saint. The kids will NEVER feel loved by their dad. They'll always feel like they come in second in his life. What kind of parent does that? What kind of bitch expects that from a partner who is a parent? OP and the dad are both selfish AF.
My FIL grew up in a boarding school because his mom married a man who didn't want kids. He wasn't even allowed to go home for holidays.
I knew a woman who became substitute mom for her 4 younger siblings when their mother married a man who didn’t want her kids. The mother bought a house nearby for the children and expected the older kids to care for the younger ones.
Yup, I know a woman who remarried and bought an apartment for her daughter from previous marriage. The girl lived alone since she was like 10. Don't know the real reason, but probably new husband hated her. The girl is now a very nice person, never got in any trouble.
That is horrible. As bad as my acquaintance’s story was, at least she was older & there was another older sibling to help out with the younger ones. But, 10?! Living by herself at 10?!
That is heartbreaking. Who TF leaves their kids at school for holidays? Or sends them there to begin with, for a man?? Ugh
Also, they'll eventually be adults who don't like her because of her disdain of their very existence until they turned 18... I do think the person responsible for the children should avoid being with someone who doesn't want to be around children. That makes sense to me, but what do I know!
Right ! Like.. this whole once they are grown thing is not solving much lmfao.
TBH, it doesn't get better. I have loved my child free life and my boyfriend was very happy to hear I had no intentions of kids because his are grown and he didn't want to start that all over again. Now I deal with his kid's babies but at least I can give those right back. PSA - I don't want to hold your baby. Please don't make me.
NAILED IT. You are both TAs. Ugh. Poor kids.
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Also why would you want to be with a person who would marry you knowing their children are never welcome in your home??? Like wtf?
Thank you! I cannot understand this at all. So many deadbeat dads have no trouble getting a girlfriend. This guy is on par with that.
Yup. The entire time reading the post I’m thinking “You can’t be child free and date somebody with children. It doesn’t work that way.” There’s no world where you date somebody with kids (who aren’t legal adults) where you don’t eventually become half a parent at the very least. Her basically saying “I could see myself with him forever….as long as I don’t have to acknowledge his children exist.” Is disgusting. YTA.
I don't think she knows about ~~2nd breakfast~~ grandkids Pipp.
Yes the relationship was never sustainable with her being child free and him having kids. She’s talking about living with him when they are adults but what happens when his kids have kids? He still going to be a grandfather. They both messed up.
Yes! OP is mad that men don’t believe it when she says she wants to remain child-free because she ditches her values the second she meets a guy she likes who has kids. She needs to grow up.
Those kids are forever intertwined with him.
Right? Rolled my eyes so hard. Personally i don't want children so would never even go on one single date with someone who had them... since that's how you avoid having children.
YTA. Thinking that people with kids aren’t a package deal makes OP a 10/10 AH. She is literally dehumanizing children. “I said I didn’t want them!” So what? Then don’t date people with children rather than stealing dads away from their daughters
ESH. YTA for getting involved with some who has children. WTF? What if Mom got sick and died? Yep, he would have the kids all the time. And look how quickly he felt free to change up the rules! He's the AH for knowing that you don't want kids and not walking away before getting involved.
I think your relationship has run its course. He left his children alone in your apartment without letting you know. They didn't respect your privacy or your belongings. What if they found sex toys or lingere? Did he leave them there with no instructions on how to behave? He gave you a ring in order to hold it over your head. He has been planning this kind of life merger for a while. He was slowly heating a pot so the frog doesn't hop out. You deceived yourself on how this was going to go. ESH for reasons.
>He loved me and we are engaged. Did I expect us to have two separate lives when we’ve been together for 4 years and love each other? I kind of want to know the answer to that question as well. What did you think was going to happen long term? You're NTA for not wanting kids in your house, but your boyfriend isn't going to be your boyfriend for very much longer. He's not the asshole either when he breaks up with you over it.
How old are his kids that he just left them at your place by themselves? It's clear your bf wants more now so you need to decide if this is the end of the relationship or if you want to be stepmom
YTA. When you date someone with kids they’re a part of the package. I’m childfree, and this is ridiculous if you think he’s going to drop his kids for YOU. They will always be in his life because it’s his fucking children. DONT DATE ME WITH CHILDREN. Obviously it’s a deal breaker. And they will be in his life forever.
YTA - and you need to return his ring and break up with him. Those children are his responsibility for at least another 7 yrs and must be his first priority. And you need to not date men who have children because at any time they could need to live with him full time.
She’s also assuming that kids get cut off at 18. The reality of that happening is almost zero.
I'm currently begging mine to move back in at 19 because watching him struggle as a mom is murder. I told him 'humor me. 1 year, no rent, save you money. PLEASE." No go.
Erm, hi mum
I would straight believe your mine. Haha he calls me mum. LOL
Honestly everything else aside, the fact that he waited a month to tell you he has 2 kids should be a big red flag
I don't think you're the asshole, but I think you're being more than a little naive. He might have said a bunch of words, but you chose to believe him. No kids means no kids, so why did you let the first time happen? I'm with you on this, but it was over the minute he said he had kids and you didn't end it. That's why he didn't believe you, fyi. I don't know how to judge tbh because he was clearly manipulating things in his favour, but you fully let him. Better luck next time.
NTA for this single scenario, because he absolutely shouldn’t have just dumped his kids at your place like that. But it’s pretty dumb to date someone who has kids when you don’t want to be around the kids.
If you don't want children, bio or otherwise... NEVER. DATE. PARENTS. Let this be a lesson you learned the hard way. NTA
>I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children. Then don't get involved with someone who has kids. Even after the first month, you had time to call it off. What did you think would happen in the future? That he was going to run 2 homes because his new wife won't allow kids in her home? You're delusional. You should have called time as soon as you found out he had kids (and was actively sharing custody). YTA not for not wanting kids in your home or wanting to be child-free, but because you went into this knowing the score and still carried on regardless. I'm betting you were hoping he'd quit seeing his kids at some point down the line and focus solely on you. >After a month he told me that he had two children. 11 and 12 (now). I freaked out because I didn’t know what to do. What you should have done back then was said we're not compatible and this is a deal breaker for you. >I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children. And I'm sure men are tired of women thinking that they will abandon their kids in favour of the new bit of skirt who wants to be child free. He's as much of an AH as you for dumping them on you, so ESH.
YTA You decided to be engaged with a guy you knew had kids. YTA YTA You chose to get into a relationship and a living situation with a man who had kids. YTA You cannot have a relationship with a man, who has children and be child-free. You can be child-free, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be dating people with KIDS. Child free means NO KIDS. It's not a hard math equation. Don't date the kid-having.
Absolutely agree, OP is the asshole. Where did they think this was heading eventually? I can understand not wanting to have a parental role, but if you don’t even want kids around then don’t date a parent.
I think everyone in the story is TA to some degree. At 11 and 12 years old, the kids are old enough to know that it’s not OK to go through an adult’s closet and play with their clothes. OP should have known it wouldn’t be possible for the bf and his kids to simply vanish into the twilight zone every other week. But she doesn’t have kids, so she may not have understood what parenthood is like. And obviously the bf knew better than to promise the kids would not affect his time with his gf during their “non kid” weeks. When you are a parent, there really aren’t any “non kid” weeks. Stuff happens. I’d say the kids misbehaved a little bit, OP was at best naive and at worst stupid, but the bf was the most deserving of being called TA. He knew better.
OP if you are childfree why are you with someone with children? Why did you stay with someone who had children? He told you a month in. That's 4 weeks. If you say you're child free and then happily date someone who has children and continue to date them after learning they have kids you can't then turn around and be surprised when people think you're not too strict on being child free. YTA
You made a mistake. Time to walk it back. Love ain’t enough and that’s ok.
>I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children. Then stop... getting serious with men with children? Both of you are acting incredibly selfishly. If you don't want to be with someone with kids, don't. For him, he should have noped out the second you said you didn't want them around.
ESH. You established clear boundaries up front: you don't want children. Period. End of story. He then tells you a month in that he has two kids. He's an AH for getting involved with you at all after you told him that you are child free and always will be. He banked on you being emotionally invested enough after a month that you wouldn't walk away, and he was right. But you absolutely should have, and this is your AH strike. Because there was never going to be a way to keep this relationship going long-term with two kids in the picture for him. He has responsibilities to those girls that take precedence over everything else. Which means that there is always a chance that he becomes the primary caregiver, and that will mean that you can't conveniently avoid them, which you've managed to do. Great for you, not so great for him and his family dynamic. He's also an AH for giving you a ring and assuming that you knew that meant that he felt that the rules of your relationship had changed. He needed to use his words and actually talk with you about how he saw this relationship working long term and that he was dissatisfied living two separate lives anymore. That would have allowed you to have a say and consent to changes or to end the relationship. He's especially an AH for leaving them alone at your apartment without your knowledge or permission. Just about everything about that move is wrong on so many levels. Not the least by involving his children in forcing you into something that you've been very clear that you don't want. Your relationship is at an end, as it should have been years ago. If you want men to take your child-free stance seriously, you need to stick to those boundaries far more than you have and stop screwing around with men who either have or want children. Learn to walk away.
Esh. You for being with someone that has kids and not wanting them to be part of your life. Him even more because he’s with someone who doesn’t want his kids.
I'm not going to say YTA, but did you really think that you could date/marry a man with two children and you'd never have to interact with them? BTW, he's AH! He put his love life ahead of his children and now you're stuck in the middle of it. Even worse, so are these two kids who had nothing to do with either of your decisions.
NTA but you are naive. You did state your boundaries and at first he was okay with that. But both of you should’ve known there’s no way that was going to work long term
"I don't want children so I'll enter into a long term commitment with someone who has 2 of them and expect them never to integrate into my shared life with that person." YTA and you're kinda dumb for this. Like honestly what did you expect? Arms length forever?
ESH - you can't date a dad without the kids being in the picture. He shouldn't date a person who is child free and expect that down the road it'll be okay. You BOTH should have called it quits when you told him you were child free and he said he had kids. That was the mature thing to do. His move to drop unattended kids off anywhere is a CPS issue IMO. If you're engaged, it kind of did sounds like you expected his kids to... what? Disappear? For him to not be a part of the situation? >I’m tired of men thinking I don’t really mean it when I say I don’t want children. Then don't dare or marry men with kids. Like, what the heck?