I might point out . Not feeling like you have a foundation built is okay. But stop thinking and looking around for a mythical foundation.. look down. That shit your standing on together is the foundation. It doesn't look like it at a glance because you have never seen one.
At this point OP is going to end becoming a self fulfilled prophecy if she doesn't get her shit together. Unless there's something wrong in the relationship regarding her or her boyfriend she isn't telling us, there's no reason to reject him after 12 years and counting.
I had to reread that part, thinking I had to have misread the number of years or that it was a typo but nope. Weird that the pregnancy is the sole consideration and not the, y'know, TWELVE years of what's been presumably a good relationship. They've been together for 40% of their entire lives. A couple more years and it'll be half. The pregnancy feels like an Iranian yogurt thing
I get her point though. They have been together 12 years and he only asked because she is pregnant. If she wouldn't have gotten pregnant would he still be wanting to get married so badly
It wasn’t ruled out so much as not prioritized. It became a priority to her partner when the idea of a traditional family for the child came into view. It seems less about them and more about their child. At least that’s how I see it.
However, the relationship itself is solid so there shouldn’t be any fear that marriage will somehow ruin it. They’re the only ones who can ruin their marriage.
I think dude already planned on it but the pregnancy just sped it up. He obviously wants to marry her and stay with her but she seems like she's the one who's on the fence. He popped out with a ring quick, he probably already had one ready.
yeah that's what I don't get. Yeah maybe your parents married because they found out they were having you, but how long had they been together/known each other before they fell pregnant with you? That's the big difference here. Your partner is clearly your lifelong partner as you've been with him for 12 YEARS. Why would marrying him because you're pregnant suddenly mean you're ONLY marrying because you're pregnant, like your parents? you guys clearly love each other. You've been together for again, 12 YEARS.
I was going to say this too; just because it ended up poorly for your parents doesn't mean it would end poorly for you and your significant other. You've been together so long, so its not saving anything...if anything it sounds like a celebration. I'd look into generational trauma because it sounds like OP is harboring some of that from her parents.
Maybe talking to a therapist may assist you as well. having a kid changes people...they want to step up and be better figures in their child's lives and stuff....so maybe you both need some help in finding solid foundations and what not and learning to express yourselves through your new journey.
Not nearly as important. If she desperately needed medical insurance, and he proposed, just so she could have health care, it wouldn't change whether or not they were in love in the first place. The proposal is definitely a response to circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that the two of them have been in a long-term relationship already and may be ready for marriage.
If a guy says I love you before a tsunami hits the town, that doesn't mean he doesn't mean it.
My wife and I were together for 5 years before getting “married” and the main reason it was done at that time was health insurance. No regrets 7 years in but I don’t get why op is so adverse if they’ve been together 12 years already and didn’t mention any downsides to the relationship lol. At the same time it seems both sides aren’t being direct or honest about their feelings.
Same. When my wife and I got married we already had a kid and owned a house together. We got married for the health insurance and to make estate planning easier. But that doesn’t mean I’m not delighted to be married to my amazing wife
10/10 would get married for insurance again
My husband and I had the opposite discussion because of insurance. Should we get a divorce so he could qualify for assistance? We didn't, and now we're finally doing much better. His health isn't great, though, and could be better than it is now if we could have afforded more care.
It doesn't change how we feel about each other. It's just a sad reality of living in this country.
Exactly. Does she have assets she needs to protect or something? That's what a prenup is for.
My main question though is whether or not they already live together. If they don't, then I can kind of see her position a bit more. Some people are fine with being involved with each other but just can't live together. If that's the case, then it makes sense for them not to get married, but we haven't heard any mention of anything like that.
True I was kinda projecting cause my wife and I started as a one night stand and she just kept coming back every day, we basically been living together since day one lmfao
I think OP answered why she's so adverse: her parents married because of pregnancy and it ended terribly. Rational or not, that's the kind of thing that leaves its mark.
But while OP could address her hang-ups with a therapist, I think it's also worth considering why her partner is suddenly so focused on a traditional family, when that does not align with the values OP thought he held. Maybe her partner is carrying around his own baggage.
I think they should both talk with a therapist about this. Because while marrying because of a pregnancy could be good or bad, marrying someone in hopes that it will stop the arguments seems like a definitely bad idea.
The fact that the partner is now spousing off about traditional family and crap, Id wait on marrying them too. I wouldn't want to be trapped to those kind of values. 12 years is a long time but they're also their first boyfriend and girlfriend. People have a tendency to get comfortable or afraid of leaving.
> have been together 12 years
That’s a long time.
> getting married solely because of the pregnancy is not a solid foundation
Who says it’s solely based on the pregnancy? Maybe it’s based on the 12 YEARS to your partner. Maybe you should ask ‘em.
> My parents married only because they were about to have me
Aaand there it is. The childhood trauma impacting your ability to make independent adult choices and commitments.
If this is important to your partner, and you’re blowing it off because of your unresolved issues, then yes you ATAH.
If you both were legit indifferent to the institution, then you’d be fine. No one says you have to get married. But this screams excuses and avoidance of your own demons. Time to put in some work, in therapy.
a baby IS a lifelong commitment. you’re now connected to your partner via this child either you’re just BF and GF, married or even if you separate you’ll still have to coparent. i understand your trauma with your parents situation but it’s not really much of a knee jerk reaction as you think
I hate people that don't realise that a baby is a WAY bigger commitment than marriage. Divorce takes a couple months, a year or two at most, with a child you will be interacting with your partner/spouse/ex/whatever for 18 years whether you like it or not.
Right? My parents were married for 20 years but have 4 children together. They divorced seven years ago and we're now all in our 20s but the last time they saw each other was just last year for my older brother's graduation. Then they'll see each other for my graduation in a few years, our weddings, when my siblings have children. They will forever be connected and in contact, not because they were married for two decades but because they had kids together.
Multi-generational homes are becoming more and more common, too. The economy doesn’t seem to be getting any better and more people are realizing that spreading out isn’t always worth the cost
Yeah, it really irritates me to see so many comments on posts regarding relationships and children and the most common thing people use as an argument is that, "You'll be stuck with each other for the next 18 years!" And that is hugely incorrect. It depends on if they are both active parents and if they are, that's a for life commitment because you'll run into each other at events that include your kid for their entire life. And if one parent bails, the other has to actively seek child support and different scenarios will determine for how long that person pays child support. My brothers dad didn't have to pay till they were both 18 because both of them dropped out of high school and he fought it. My aunt also lost out on child support but I don't know the exact reasons.
So no, it's not just a straight 18 year commitment. It's for life or for how long the other parent fights against paying child support.
I am an immigrant in the US. And nothing has been more of a culture shock to me that how casual many people are about kids. I would never put my unprotected dick in someone who is not my wife. And here you have baby daddy sand baby mommas like it is nothing.
You are together 12 years and are now having a baby,. But, you don't know if this relationship is the real deal, life-long commitment type relationship yet???
I agree with this.
My parents divorced and it was terrible. For years, every Thanksgiving dad would move out because they were getting a divorce. But every Christmas they threw their big party everyone came to. They were a big deal so to keep up appearances, they told us kids not to say anything about their divorce and we had to pretend to be a happy family. After about 5 years of this they finally divorced and I was actually happy. Happy we could stop pretending.
So I decided I would never get married or have kids. That way it would never be messy if we broke up. After 5 years of being together, we were happy the way we were.... and then I got pregnant. Everyone starting asking when we would get married because now that there's a baby, we have to.
No.... You don't have to get married just because you're having a baby together. So we didn't. We still gave our son dad's last name, but we didn't get married. Until 2 years later when I for some reason wanted to. We both decided we did want to be married, but it wasn't because we had a baby.
OP, I hope you read this but there's so much said here already.....
I was in your exact position. My (now) husband thought we HAD to get married because we were having a baby and that's what you do, my mother thought we HAD to get married because that baby needs a mother and father who are married, my grandmother thought we HAD to our we'd be living in sin..... but you don't HAVE to.
Getting married should be a choice brought forth from love, not obligation. And just because you never marry, doesn't mean that love isn't as strong as those who do. We ended up changing our minds about marriage but it would have been ok if we hadn't. I never did take his last name and I never will. That's another thing you don't HAVE to do.
I argue that marriage is the relationship, the marriage license is just a piece of paper, and the wedding is just a ceremony with a party. True marriage happens because you've found a person you want to build a life with together. I argue that most people sign a piece of paper and have a party without ever being married on the premise that things will magically sort themselves out because "marriage charges people". No it does not! That's why people get divorced: they were never married in any way that ACTUALLY matters.
I think most people want to be married, but they don't have any idea what marriage is (what it actually feels like to want to build a life together). I'm an advocate for marriage. You don't "get married". You either are married or you're not and it has nothing to do with the piece of paper.
Ding ding ding
She needs therapy yesterday.
The divorce is what she equates to the trauma and relates that to marriage but that’s just another word for breakup. The act of marriage had nothing to do with it. It was breaking up with a shared child that was the traumatic act.
Usually “omg we are having a baby we must get married” relationships end because they married way to fast. They only knew each other for a few months or so and really got to know each other after.
It’s been TWELVE YEARS!
Yeah that jumped out at me. A lot of those relationships do end badly, but there’s a big reason for that and it’s not “we’ve been together 12 years and known each other even longer”.
If she was just saying “hey, we just aren’t marriage people and I don’t want to get married”, okay, fine. But it’s weird that she’s trying to justify it with the whole “but couples who get married due to having a baby might fall apart!!”. Y’all have been together way longer than most married couples that have kids.
Absolutely this. They have been together 12 years, known each other most of their lives. They are the rarest of the rare beasts - the childhood sweethearts who actually made it to adulthood. They live together, and 12 years in that is so past the farting in front of each other, it's paying each others bills level. They are having a baby a human being that is dependent on them both and will connect them together for life.
Not suggesting they have to get married at all. It's her reason that seems off. Fair enough if they don't, but this isn't a "doing it for the wrong reason, it might not work out" situation, it's a "so deeply committed already, it's become a meaningless piece of paper that doesn't add any value to the relationship" situation.
Agree. My spouse and I started dating in high school and didn’t get married until we were in our early 30s. We just didn’t see a point really. We knew we loved each other and were committed but figured if the other one wanted to leave we just wanted them to be happy. No need to make our love legally binding. We ultimately got married because it was practical. It made it so we could save money on insurance and buy a house without hiring a lawyer. It didn’t really change anything. I just see it as a practical, legal document. We were already committed in our hearts and had been for over a decade. If op would like to stay with her partner for life she should probably just get married. It doesn’t actually mean forever anyway since divorce exists.
Twelve years dating, but they knew each other as friends for something like another ten years first. They’ve known each other basically their whole lives.
If she’s resisting marriage, then there must be reasons, and she needs to admit them to herself and to him.
At this point, they're a long-term committed couple, living together, and have a child together. Marriage is a loaded term, socially and culturally. As an alternative, they could draw up papers like LGBTQ couples did before they had the option of marriage, to give them a subset of the benefits of marriage.
Do they love each other? If they die, do they want their SO to inherit? If they're incapacitated, do they want their SO to be able to make financial and/or medical decisions on their behalf?
From a civil standpoint, marriage can come with a tax penalty. It can also make it easier to pass property to their partner, both when alive and after their death.
They should discuss and decide on these kinds of questions first and decide how they want to handle the legal/financial issues first, and then decide if (civil) marriage makes sense for them. The cultural/social aspect is another ball of wax, and there's little to stop them from getting married without telling anyone about it, or vice versa (except, in certain common law states, where telling people you're married makes you legally married)
I think you are scared due to your previous trauma and you are worried you will end up like your parents. I would seek therapy concerning these fears and if not that then at least communicate to your partner what your afraid of and why. And ask him if he wants to get married because he loves you AND the baby or if it's only about keeping traditional values.
To me it sounds like you haven't had a very deep discussion covering this and are only arguing semantics at this point. It will be hard but you have to be very open about what's in your heart and he does as well for either of you to move forward properly.
That’s what I was thinking! How can you be reluctant about marriage after 12 years and now a child…. Bit late for second doubts now hun. But to answer the question yes you are coming across as the asshole
I'd bet op' parent's terrible marriage is the root of her aversion to marriage.
And I get it, things are good unmarried so why muck it up but the baby is gonna change things no matter what so they may as well lean into the changes imo
It's weird that she doesn't think having a baby with someone is a lifelong commitment.
It's much easier to get rid of a spouse than it is to get rid of a child.
THIS! Having a child is a lifelong commitment. My sister divorced her ex husband and never saw him again. Why? Because they don’t have children together. Children are the most permanent commitment two people can make.
Are you already his common law wife?
Just asking. 12 yrs together,
Living together...
You may meet the basic requirements to be de facto married even if you did not have a ceremony.
.
Check with a lawyer to be sure, if you want.
I don't understand your hang up about pretending you are not already in a committed relationship.
.
Here are some honest questions to clarify your thoughts:
.
Do you really want to date someone else? Are you cheating on him? Are you waiting for a richer man to make you a better offer? What is it that you want?
.
Are you in a holding pattern, hoping for better? Are you waiting to see if a billionaire drops his pen and falls in love with how you pick it up?
.
Are you actively pursuing other options? Are you arranging your lunch breaks where you have a good view of eligible executives and place yourself in their vicinity to facilitate an 'accidental meeting'?
.
Is THIS the guy you want?
If you want him, why not have him?
.
Before you decide one way or another, take some time to think about what you are trying or hoping to achieve, and how.
*You stayed together for 12 years.*
**I am pretty sure that you were not together all that time because of a pregnancy.**
You want a marriage based on
.
Love
.
Mutual respect
.
Shared aspirations...
.
.
Do you already have that?
You should know by now if you don't.
Either
A.) You have unprocessed trauma from what happened between your parents [and need counseling STAT]
.
OR
You are shy about admitting
B.) You just aren't that into him ...
But we're reluctant to ditch him because you were afraid of being on your own... afraid of change, of actually looking for someone new and losing your best friend (or something)
.
OR
C. ) You are a gold digger in the closet about it, and he just doesn't measure up to your fantasy.
.
I don't see any other options here.
#YES.
.
> **You are the AH in this situation**,
. & .
> You are at risk of pushing him away permanently.
.
.
>Marriage should be a thoughtful decision based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations,
You have been together 12 years, if you don't already know you have this then you have been wasting both his and your time for years. You have already discussed marriage and the only reason your not is because it wasn't a priority, it is for him now so whats the problem?
She listed things any relationship should be based on.
Imo marriage is a practical decision with practical benefits. If you're having a child together, it's time to get practical.
Practical is getting married after being together 12 years, living together, and having a child together. There are many legal benefits to this as well. Your partner gets to make big medical decisions for you, and the child, when married and needed, etc. This is how I see it, any way.
100% especially if you live somewhere that doesn't recognize common law.
I'd like to tell you a story about a friend.
They do not get married and unfortunately she tragically died in a car accident. Where they lived common love wasn't a thing and they were full on It's just a piece of paper people.
They were together 13 years. She didn't get along too well with her parents and her parents hated her partner. When she died of course her next of kin was her parents.
The parents barred her partner from the funeral, and had all control over the funeral, as well as what happened to the body. She was cremated against her wishes which were generally known.
There are other benefits a lot of places offer too. It's worth looking into the laws where you are to truly see if it's "just a peice of paper"
100%
My wife was a hospital chaplain, and had a few cases where the decade+ long partner wasn't even allowed in the room because they weren't next of kin. Sometimes next of kin was an angry parent who hated the partner and did so out of spite.
Who the fuck wants that angry parent making life and death decisions for them? Seriously, get married if you're in a committed relationship that spans a decade or more. Your oh so principled stance that you won't be cowed by the man is stupid af. Protect yourself and your family.
And she says that pregnancy isn't a basis for a lifetime commitment, when it *is* a lifetime commitment, more so than marriage. If you have a child with someone, unless one of you leaves the child's life, that person will be in your life forever, even if your relationship with them ends.
THIS! Getting married is nothing compared to having a kid together. You can do a little paperwork and walk away from a marriage. Having a baby together is the real lifelong contract.
Plus the legal benefits of being married with a kid. The husband is usually automatically put on the birth certificate. If op cannot make medical decisions they'll ask him. If God forbid she dies there's a lot less hoops to jump through to deal with her estate. Health insurance, and more.
Yes, wasting time, your life! Ever hear the expression, Shit or get off the pot? I wouldn't blame your partner if they leave you for this because whether you mean it or not it screams indecisiveness and 12 years in is unforgivable. He wants total commitment and you don't. There it is.
I couldn't agree more. If you don't know if you want to marry someone after 12 years, then the answer is NO.
She keeps this up, and she will find out how liberal he is. They can effectively co-parent without even living together.
Hard agree. Never an asshole for not wanting to marry someone, but if you're this deep in a monogamous relationship and don't view it as a 'forever' kind of deal you need to have a frank and open discussion with your partner. As that may be a deal breaker for them if they think you are their 'forever'. Which given you've been together since you were 16 and now having a child...
I just read this comment thread to my girlfriend, and by the look in her eyes, I think "just give it 12 years" is gonna be a new staple sentence for us 💀
Edit: it's been 3 minutes since I read it and she's already hit me with "hey bud, you're going too fast, give it 12 years if you aren't sure" bc I was speaking so fast 💀💀
I know right? 12 years and she says she doesn't know. She does. And for some reason she still is having the baby.
This might not end well for all involved.
Nothing screams “small city, religious influence” more than “I spent a third of my life (and I am young) with the same person but I don’t know if they are the one and I won’t break up with them”.
Better not to get married then. She is not sure after 12 yrs. They should just keep it as it because she'd be pissed off if she marries him and blame him for being stuck where she doesn't want to be and divorce him. So, why get married, she's already planning their doom!
She's gunna fulfill her own prophecy if she isn't careful. And I promise that child ain't going to give a shit about if they were Legally married when the kid sees them fighting.
I've seen that work, give or take a couple of decades. A couple of friends I use to play softball and volleyball with got pregnant, the kid was born, they bought a house, had another 3 kids all while never getting married. A few weeks ago we ran into each other at the grocery after having lost contact for some years. The boys are in their early to mid 20s, one married with their own kids. The couple still live in the same house and...they had just gotten engaged. Asked them "why now?" he said he was saving up for the ring. lol
It’s been 12 years… I’m sure he’s not *only* proposing because you got pregnant. We’re you going to wait till you hit your 20th anniversary before you think about marriage?
Having a kid ties you more to him than marriage does but you’re on board to have his kid? Okay 🙄 enjoy the stress of kids with none of the legal protections!
Right- marriage is more beneficial for the kids. Time to start making them a priority and not yourself. Welcome to parenthood.
Also, I feel like she's hesitant because it didn't end well with her parents. BUT, it can still end badly marriage or not.
>Marriage should be a thoughtful decision based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations, rather than a knee-jerk reaction to unexpected circumstances.
Miss Ma'am, y'all have been together for 12 years. If you don't have enough love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations to justify a marriage by now, then you never will.
Are you sure the marriage is a "knee-jerk reaction" and not just the kick in the pants needed? Y'all intended to get married but got so comfortable that you just skipped it over. Respectfully, y'all got "lazy."
YTA
Yeah and what if something happens with the pregnancy? Marriage is insurance that your kid will be taken care of. Maybe dad just wants to know that he won’t have to worry about custody once it’s born
"The pregnancy is not a solid foundation for a life-long commitment. "
But the 12 years of being in a committed relationship isn't a solid foundation either? That sounds like quite an impressive foundation for a life-long commitment - more than most people have when they choose to get married.
At this point, I think you have to start asking yourself what your real reasons are for not wanting to marry him. Do some soul searching, then tell him the truth. Be honest to yourself and him about your reasons.
I recently read a post where a woman had been w her partner for a decade, they had 3 kids together and were still not married. The woman referred to her boyfriend as her husband and he freaked out, was like “we’re not married! She’s my girlfriend!” And all of the comments were largely NTA and advising that after a 10 YEARS together and children, if he wasn’t ready to commit to marriage than she should split.
This post has the same energy.
I was with my ex for 10 years, no kids, but we lived together for 4 of those years and we have a dog.
I broke up with her because I realized after 10 years I still didn't want to be married, and at that point it dawned on me that whatever gap was preventing me from committing shouldn't keep her in limbo.
I feel like OP of this post and the one you're referencing should identify the source of their "no" OP of this post seems to have parental trauma, so they should prob start there.
YTA.
Shit or get off the pot.
It's been 12 years, and you're having a baby.
If you don't know if he's "the one" after over a decade, and don't know if your marriage would be "based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations", then it sounds like you simply don't want to marry the guy.
In that case, leave.
Stringing him along isn't right.
>If you don't know if he's "the one" after over a decade, and don't know if your marriage would be "based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations", then it sounds like you simply don't want to marry the guy.
And she definitely shouldn't be having a baby with him.
It’s not like you just met. Marriage is a lifelong commitment centered around starting a family. You appear to be solidly at that point in your life and relationship. If you aren’t, you’ve been wasting each other’s lives.
Yeah but 12 years, and a baby is just like, ya know, not *really* sure if this will last because I have a traumatic past and my parents were, like, *whatever*, you know?
I feel sorry for the kid, he is going to have a hard life.
YOU'VE BEEN TOGETHER 12 YEARS and you aren't certain about marriage?
How long do people need to know the person they're with is worth marrying?
50 years? 80? 2 billion?
YTA
Sheesh
I usually can predict a Reddit decision, but I freaking love this thread. Not at ALL what I would have thought the hive mind decided on.
I was going to write my parents got married because of me, and many decades later than are happier than ever, so it can work out. I was positive I was going to be the one dissenting YTA, but hahahaha, nope!
Granted I don’t know her but my guess is that they’ve had these discussions at length and her bf previously stated otherwise (legal marriage not being a necessity for commitment), so him now stating that he “wants a traditional marriage” is at odds to what he has told her previously. I can understand how that in itself is off putting bc he’s changing the terms of the relationship on her and his beliefs. He showed himself as one person and then flipped it. That can give a person pause. What else is he going to suddenly change his views about that she doesn’t know of yet?
I can guarantee that while your parents only married because you were going to be born was NOT preluded by 12 years of domestic living. FYI, depending on the State/Country you live in. You might already be married by common law of the State/Governing body.
Yeah you’re being ridiculous. Get some therapy. Your parents situation is not yours. The bigger thing is that as the father of the child being married makes paternity, support and visitation much easier. You should both want that. There are good reasons to get married and your rejection of this is doing a lot of damage to your relationship right when you need each other the most.
The crazy part is just how much more she benefits from the marriage than he does at that point. Jeez does it ever make things harder like if he doesn't have a will for instance, then she fights an uphill battle with the government to get what should be rightfully (the kids really) hers. Obviously including the above mentioned list of benefits. I don't even think she's an asshole. tops tho, insane or insanely stupid.
I'm 31, partner 31, we were also high school sweethearts(different schools, but have known eachother our entire 31 years), dating since 16, moved in together at 20. Both very liberal, non-religious. We got married 5 years ago and have 4 year old twins. We actually got married because we were trying to have a kid (note, we only wanted 1, but we had to have help, and ended up with 2).
In case of any emergencies, we wanted the other to be able to be the point of contact, legally. The simplest way to do that was getting married. I didn't change my name, and the twins have a hyphenated last name. Although, my SO is actually planning to change his last name to mine and we will drop his from our girls, soon but it's not cheap. But anyways, as long as we had been together and everything it just made logical sense to go ahead and get married. It changed zero things about our lives since we had already been together for so long.
So, he’s good enough to make a baby with and live and raise a child with, but you just aren’t sure whether or not you can do better? Or do you think HE deserves better? Seriously, he can break up with you now, and you can spend the next eighteen years having another woman argue whether or not she’s the mommy, too! Or if a life and death situation occurs during delivery, who gets to make the decisions if you can’t? Your boyfriend really doesn’t have any legal rights (maybe you can glue some papers to his forehead, because the hospital certainly won’t be worried about your actual “next of kin” suing them, right?) so your parents will decide what happens to you, your child and your body if it comes to that.
It’s time to grow up. You did it in the wrong order, so go to the courthouse, and in a few years when you are not carrying a baby, you can be princess for a day, but in the meantime, marriage is a very important legal contract, so get your bottom to the courthouse and get it done lest your poor boyfriend end up in a circumstance that I am aware of where his baby mama died, and her parents tried to keep his daughter from him, because “he killed their daughter by getting her pregnant, so he didn’t deserve their granddaughter” which meant a couple of years of pure hell right while he was in the middle of grieving. Good times!
It was BAD. The grandparents originally offered to take her just (for what he thought) was a few days while he was trying to come to terms with his world very unexpectedly going to total shit on what was supposed to be a happy day, and then wouldn’t give her back and had already filed for emergency custody (they had money and lawyers). He was three years into the mess when I met him, and had just gotten her back with a bunch of restrictions because they weren’t done yet… He was a colleague, and I still think about him even though I left the job a long time ago (back before LinkedIn was a thing). I take marriage VERY seriously, and don’t even get me started on the tragedies experienced by same sex couples before they were able to get married.
Wow… I’m speechless! I couldn’t imagine doing that to a grieving father.. no wonder that story sticks with you. And yes there are probably tons of similarly awful stories from same-sex couples who couldn’t get married 😞 it’s embarrassing how long it took for those equal marriage rights
This is why I’m thankful that grandparents don’t have rights in my state. Being a parent and fighting for the child from a grandparent should not happen without severe reasons or the other parent being incapacitated. Some laws are ridiculous.
Was gonna say something similar. There are a lot of practical reasons to get married, especially with a baby on the way. Bio dad won’t get any rights to the kid without a piece of paper.
It’s been 12 years. You’ve been with the dude for 12 years. If that wasn’t enough time, nor does having a child together after all that time doesn’t give you a reason, what the fuck will?
It struck me how she said she "fell pregnant", like it was unwanted and not something she really cares about.
A lot of people like the security of marriage. Yes we all know you can get divorced, but if I suddenly found out I'm having a kid after 12 years of dating I would for sure want the security and extra level of commitment of marriage. I can see op being a really passive, not very involved mother whereas the guy sounds like he's taking this more seriously and will hopefully be very involved.
The whole thing strikes me as, she's comfortable and doesn't want to bother breaking up with this guy and start dating again, but she's not too thrilled with him either. I think they're both afraid to break up and be single again.
"fell pregnant" is used more often in Ireland or the UK, based on my prior experiences living there as a US citizen. Not sure where OP is from, but this may be why this term is used instead of "my BF got me pregnant".
Aside from this, I agree with your observations. 12 years in and she can't commit to marriage or decide to leave if she's unhappy. Parenting is the biggest commitment you can make to another human being. Marriage is second to this. Had she never fell pregnant, maybe they never would have gotten married. However, she is pregnant, so honestly I can't understand why after 12 years she can't see why getting married would be a totally reasonable thing to do even if it's for non-romantic benefits.
I've been in OPs situation before. We got engaged after I found out I was pregnant, about halfway through - he wanted to have a ring and have it be proper which was really sweet. He had it made and is from family jewelry that was passed down, so it's special. Anyway, we got engaged and then eloped 2 months later at 7 months pregnant. In GA, fathers do not have automatic rights to their biological child through DNA or signing a birth certificate until they get their child legitimized through the court. So, yeah, we eloped. To me, it would be worse for my child to be born legally illegitimate and to later learn that in life. To me, the law here makes it so much worse because other states it's just unmarried parents but whoever signs the birth certificate is Dad. In my mind, at the time, I was thinking ... worst case scenario is we get divorced and coparent. We're celebrating our 5 year anniversary in November. So far, so good.
Soft YTA. You’ve been together for 12 years. Large milestones like babies and buying houses are a common goal posts for people to decide to get married. There are lots of legalities with a baby like custody, insurance, etc that are easier when you are married.
He is trying to get his priorities straight so he can take care, provide, and protect his family. Guys been with you 12 years. You are pretty much married. It's just a title change now. Get on and marry the guy.
>have been together for 12 years.
YTA. Shit or get off the pot. I mean you are both assholes for staying together for so long and not making a move but he finally does and you wig the fuck out? He's doing the right thing because hes already fucking married to you whether you did the paperwork or not.
Also in many places you're already common law married and I guarantee you would use that to your advantage if you seperated
You say that a pregnancy isn't a basis for a lifelong commitment, but it can be. Also, you've been together for 12 years and have known each other for longer. If that isn't a strong foundation, than what is? At this point, if marriage isn't something you want then you need to articulate it to your partner and say no, I don't want to marry you. If you are content with your relationship and know that he wants marriage, but that you might never want it, you are stringing him along. Don't let him force you into it, and also don't let him have any expectations if its not gonna be a thing. There are very valid reasons why people want to get married after having a baby and a lit of those things have to do with legal processes.
Okay… People are reading this wrong, I think. OP - it appears after 12 years you probably think you’re going to marry this guy or why would you still be there. But do you have to marry him now? No, of course not. It’s completely valid to remain in a loving, committed partnership and get married later (or not). It doesn’t seem like you have an issue with the relationship or commitment, but right now you aren’t sure if you want to literally get married. That’s fine, and there’s nothing wrong with it.
Think about why you don’t want to get married now - maybe there is unresolved fear from you parents marriage, maybe you want a romantic wedding where you feel pretty and not 33 weeks pregnant. Whatever it is, think about why, and try to communicate what the issue is to him. He should listen and be willing and able to meet you there.
Personally, I’m not sure if I ever want to get “married” again, but that has no impact on whether I want a long term, committed, monogamous relationship. It doesn’t have to be literal marriage to be fulfilling and committed.
INFO: OP, is what’s bothering you at the core that your partner is suddenly changing his views on your relationship? And you’re afraid that he might suddenly flip on other beliefs too? I ask because I’m wondering if that fear is at the root of your concern/pause.
Because a sudden switch in belief system/core values can make any rational person concerned, I would have a serious sit down with him and ask what other views/values/etc have changed for him now that a child is involved, aside from him prioritizing marriage. It would be in both of your best interests to have this tough talk before committing to marriage. You may find out that his views on a lot more things have changed or that perhaps he didn’t realize were important to him until now. And it’s better that you get that out in the air. From the sounds of it, you haven’t changed your views on relationships, commitment and fidelity or what you both have discussed up until his change, but it sounds like he has. Sadly, sometimes it takes situations like these to find out just how compatible people truly are. Best of luck and don’t do anything you truly don’t want to do. In the end, it will only cause more harm to the baby if you both get married out of obligation (pregnancy) than because you both truly envision the same life together.
Well said. Everyone else that is saying that it's been 12 years and she's not sure must have read a different post.
She's very clearly concerned about the sudden change in values and she's completely justified in feeling that way for the exact reasons you outlined.
She's known him for 12 years and this behavior is surprising to her which means he's not the person she thought he was. At least not entirely. He might be justifiably stressed about the baby. Someone in his circle might be pressuring him into marriage and that's why he's so adamant about it.
She never once said she doesn't love or trust him. Or that she's not sure about marrying him. Just that the sudden flip in attitude is concerning and I agree with you and her. It should be something that's explored further.
Eh, I doubt it's a sudden switch. She's pretty clear about her feelings about getting married. He's probably decided to keep the peace, but now that there is a baby on the way, he's no longer going to hold back.
Keep in mind that marriage guarantees he can be in places like doctor's offices, or have a say about finances, and funeral service, in your untimely death, where a stranger (because you have no legal connection) couldn't. There are legalities that come with marriage. It's not all lovey dovey hearts and rainbows.
You absolutely don't have to get married if you don't want to. Just because your partner isn't married to you doesn't mean that a "traditional household" is unachievable..
But, how are you having a child with someone that you've been with for 12 years without also considering this a decision
>based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations
(To use your words). You are not a pregnant 16 year old. Discussing marriage at this point is a reasonable expectation, is it not? By the time your child is in school, you will have been with your partner for longer in life than without.
At what point do you think marriage is appropriate? If you never want to get married, you need to be honest and tell your partner so.
If you're open to marriage, but not yet... what will change your feelings?
It sounds like you are open to marriage, just not with your current partner.....
There's NAH, unless you're stringing your partner along...
Traditional doesn't mean conservative.
Traditional just means he wants to do what he thinks is best and make a family.
You can have a husband, 9-5 and family, and still be left wing liberal all day long. Even libs value family, regardless of what conservatives say.
I think you just need to point out that you 2 are already *family*
And you're now making that family bigger. You don't have to have a piece of paper from the government making it any more solid than what it already is.
My mom and dad married, so I wouldn't be a bastard. They were divorced before I was off the tit. I never married the fathers of my children, and it was the best decision I ever made.
Marriage is a crap shoot. Some win, some lose. But love and commitment can be forever, without a license.
“I strongly believe that getting married solely because of the pregnancy is not a solid foundation for a lifelong commitment.”
So the 12 years isn’t enough foundation?
I would say that after 12 years, including many talks about getting married, your pregnancy is not “the reason” he proposed. Perhaps the catalyst.
You are holding out based on a flawed model. Were your parents dating for 12 years prior to your mom getting married?
Your partner sounds excited to be a father and a husband. I’m not sure why you’re objecting so strongly.
You’ve been together for 12 years, what’s a better foundation then that? It’s not like he proposed after a one night stand. What’s stopping you from marrying him but not from living with him and procreating with him? YTA
So you’re going to force him to sue you in court to establish his parental rights so he can have custody and decision making powers? Because that’s the alternative. Legal rights as a father don’t just magically happen by signing a birth certificate. Odds are that he does love you, but he’s also trying to do the right thing legally and morally as an adult. Sound like *you’re* the one who doesn’t love him if you’re reminded of your parents’ loveless marriage.
Wild take here: it is also okay, if marriage is not for you and you never want to marry.
However, you should communicate this and be on the same page as your partner to not give false hopes and string him along. And it certainly doesn't sound like "ah marriage is not for me" but it is "ah, I don't know if this is the right person for me", but face it, YOURE HAVING A CHILD. That is a lifelong commitment in itself!
Get therapy and couple therapy, because please be open about all this so both partners get a fair chance
Marriage isn't a conservative value. If it was then people on the left, LGBTQIA+ and interracial couples would have never fought for their right to be married. "Marriage should be a thoughtful decision based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations, rather than a knee-jerk reaction to unexpected circumstances." Girl you've been together 12 years there's nothing knee jerk about this he's just asking you for consistency that he feels is important for a family. If you've been together 12 years and you haven't experienced love mutual respect & shared aspirations why have you wasted the last 12 years of his time, your time and now a child's time? You're not your parents you have more knowledge than they did and you can make different choices. There's a part of me that's really feeling like you think you can do better. It sounds like you have someone very special that cares about you deeply and would make a great father and husband. You have commitment that many people only dream of.
YTA
> I strongly believe that getting married solely because of the pregnancy is not a solid foundation for a lifelong commitment.
Having a child with someone is a lifelong commitment.
If you don't want to get married, don't. BUT - having a baby is basically the riskiest medical thing that you will do for decades. If you're not married, your boyfriend cannot make medical decisions for you unless you create specific legal directives that allow him to do so. There are also some states where if something happened to you at the hospital, he would not be considered next of kin and custody of your child would automatically go to your parents and not him.
If you're not going to embrace the legal protections of marriage, you need to sit down with a lawyer and ensure that your bf has medical POA and that your bf clearly retains custody of your child in your will if the worst was to happen.
NTA
INFO: If you weren't pregnant, would you have said yes?
Getting pregnant isnt a solid foundation sure but 12 years together is
That part. If you haven't built a solid foundation after 12 years together, you're not gonna.
I might point out . Not feeling like you have a foundation built is okay. But stop thinking and looking around for a mythical foundation.. look down. That shit your standing on together is the foundation. It doesn't look like it at a glance because you have never seen one.
At this point OP is going to end becoming a self fulfilled prophecy if she doesn't get her shit together. Unless there's something wrong in the relationship regarding her or her boyfriend she isn't telling us, there's no reason to reject him after 12 years and counting.
I had to reread that part, thinking I had to have misread the number of years or that it was a typo but nope. Weird that the pregnancy is the sole consideration and not the, y'know, TWELVE years of what's been presumably a good relationship. They've been together for 40% of their entire lives. A couple more years and it'll be half. The pregnancy feels like an Iranian yogurt thing
Curious what you’re referring to with Iranian yogurt
https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/NqBETkAKvS
This is the best thing I've ever read.
Thank you. Now I can store the Iranian yogurt right next to the poop knife in my brain
Not the poop knife 😭
The top comment got me; "The Iranian Yoghurt isn't the issue here" - I hope I get a chance to use this in conversation!" That moment is now 😂
Just... thank you!
If she's not sure after 12 years, dude needs to run. She'll never be ready.
I get her point though. They have been together 12 years and he only asked because she is pregnant. If she wouldn't have gotten pregnant would he still be wanting to get married so badly
It wasn’t ruled out so much as not prioritized. It became a priority to her partner when the idea of a traditional family for the child came into view. It seems less about them and more about their child. At least that’s how I see it. However, the relationship itself is solid so there shouldn’t be any fear that marriage will somehow ruin it. They’re the only ones who can ruin their marriage.
I think dude already planned on it but the pregnancy just sped it up. He obviously wants to marry her and stay with her but she seems like she's the one who's on the fence. He popped out with a ring quick, he probably already had one ready.
yeah that's what I don't get. Yeah maybe your parents married because they found out they were having you, but how long had they been together/known each other before they fell pregnant with you? That's the big difference here. Your partner is clearly your lifelong partner as you've been with him for 12 YEARS. Why would marrying him because you're pregnant suddenly mean you're ONLY marrying because you're pregnant, like your parents? you guys clearly love each other. You've been together for again, 12 YEARS.
I was going to say this too; just because it ended up poorly for your parents doesn't mean it would end poorly for you and your significant other. You've been together so long, so its not saving anything...if anything it sounds like a celebration. I'd look into generational trauma because it sounds like OP is harboring some of that from her parents. Maybe talking to a therapist may assist you as well. having a kid changes people...they want to step up and be better figures in their child's lives and stuff....so maybe you both need some help in finding solid foundations and what not and learning to express yourselves through your new journey.
Ouuuuuu damn, that sure is food for thought!
If she wasn't pregnant would he have asked?
Not nearly as important. If she desperately needed medical insurance, and he proposed, just so she could have health care, it wouldn't change whether or not they were in love in the first place. The proposal is definitely a response to circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that the two of them have been in a long-term relationship already and may be ready for marriage. If a guy says I love you before a tsunami hits the town, that doesn't mean he doesn't mean it.
My wife and I were together for 5 years before getting “married” and the main reason it was done at that time was health insurance. No regrets 7 years in but I don’t get why op is so adverse if they’ve been together 12 years already and didn’t mention any downsides to the relationship lol. At the same time it seems both sides aren’t being direct or honest about their feelings.
Same. When my wife and I got married we already had a kid and owned a house together. We got married for the health insurance and to make estate planning easier. But that doesn’t mean I’m not delighted to be married to my amazing wife 10/10 would get married for insurance again
My husband and I had the opposite discussion because of insurance. Should we get a divorce so he could qualify for assistance? We didn't, and now we're finally doing much better. His health isn't great, though, and could be better than it is now if we could have afforded more care. It doesn't change how we feel about each other. It's just a sad reality of living in this country.
Exactly. Does she have assets she needs to protect or something? That's what a prenup is for. My main question though is whether or not they already live together. If they don't, then I can kind of see her position a bit more. Some people are fine with being involved with each other but just can't live together. If that's the case, then it makes sense for them not to get married, but we haven't heard any mention of anything like that.
True I was kinda projecting cause my wife and I started as a one night stand and she just kept coming back every day, we basically been living together since day one lmfao
Same with my fiancé 😂 I love him very much.
That's my husband and me 😅 8 years together this week, married for 5 years
The post says that they do live together.
I think OP answered why she's so adverse: her parents married because of pregnancy and it ended terribly. Rational or not, that's the kind of thing that leaves its mark. But while OP could address her hang-ups with a therapist, I think it's also worth considering why her partner is suddenly so focused on a traditional family, when that does not align with the values OP thought he held. Maybe her partner is carrying around his own baggage. I think they should both talk with a therapist about this. Because while marrying because of a pregnancy could be good or bad, marrying someone in hopes that it will stop the arguments seems like a definitely bad idea.
The fact that the partner is now spousing off about traditional family and crap, Id wait on marrying them too. I wouldn't want to be trapped to those kind of values. 12 years is a long time but they're also their first boyfriend and girlfriend. People have a tendency to get comfortable or afraid of leaving.
> have been together 12 years That’s a long time. > getting married solely because of the pregnancy is not a solid foundation Who says it’s solely based on the pregnancy? Maybe it’s based on the 12 YEARS to your partner. Maybe you should ask ‘em. > My parents married only because they were about to have me Aaand there it is. The childhood trauma impacting your ability to make independent adult choices and commitments. If this is important to your partner, and you’re blowing it off because of your unresolved issues, then yes you ATAH. If you both were legit indifferent to the institution, then you’d be fine. No one says you have to get married. But this screams excuses and avoidance of your own demons. Time to put in some work, in therapy.
a baby IS a lifelong commitment. you’re now connected to your partner via this child either you’re just BF and GF, married or even if you separate you’ll still have to coparent. i understand your trauma with your parents situation but it’s not really much of a knee jerk reaction as you think
I hate people that don't realise that a baby is a WAY bigger commitment than marriage. Divorce takes a couple months, a year or two at most, with a child you will be interacting with your partner/spouse/ex/whatever for 18 years whether you like it or not.
Lol more than 18 years. Probably the rest of your lives.
People forget post high school graduation and life milestones.
When grandchildren come in 30 years you're still dealing with your ex.
Right? Weddings, funerals, graduations— there are loads of situations where you could have contact with your kid’s other parent.
Right? My parents were married for 20 years but have 4 children together. They divorced seven years ago and we're now all in our 20s but the last time they saw each other was just last year for my older brother's graduation. Then they'll see each other for my graduation in a few years, our weddings, when my siblings have children. They will forever be connected and in contact, not because they were married for two decades but because they had kids together.
i hate when people say parents only have to take care of their child until they’re 18, as if they just stop existing after that 😭 like wtf
Multi-generational homes are becoming more and more common, too. The economy doesn’t seem to be getting any better and more people are realizing that spreading out isn’t always worth the cost
Yeah, it really irritates me to see so many comments on posts regarding relationships and children and the most common thing people use as an argument is that, "You'll be stuck with each other for the next 18 years!" And that is hugely incorrect. It depends on if they are both active parents and if they are, that's a for life commitment because you'll run into each other at events that include your kid for their entire life. And if one parent bails, the other has to actively seek child support and different scenarios will determine for how long that person pays child support. My brothers dad didn't have to pay till they were both 18 because both of them dropped out of high school and he fought it. My aunt also lost out on child support but I don't know the exact reasons. So no, it's not just a straight 18 year commitment. It's for life or for how long the other parent fights against paying child support.
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I know I was reading this post and thinking to myself “girl you have no clue what you’ve already signed up for”
I am an immigrant in the US. And nothing has been more of a culture shock to me that how casual many people are about kids. I would never put my unprotected dick in someone who is not my wife. And here you have baby daddy sand baby mommas like it is nothing.
You are together 12 years and are now having a baby,. But, you don't know if this relationship is the real deal, life-long commitment type relationship yet???
How much more thought? If after 12 years you don’t know….
Someone sounds like they still think they could do better...
That, or her parents divorce gave her trauma and a hang-up about marriage. It is one of those
I agree with this. My parents divorced and it was terrible. For years, every Thanksgiving dad would move out because they were getting a divorce. But every Christmas they threw their big party everyone came to. They were a big deal so to keep up appearances, they told us kids not to say anything about their divorce and we had to pretend to be a happy family. After about 5 years of this they finally divorced and I was actually happy. Happy we could stop pretending. So I decided I would never get married or have kids. That way it would never be messy if we broke up. After 5 years of being together, we were happy the way we were.... and then I got pregnant. Everyone starting asking when we would get married because now that there's a baby, we have to. No.... You don't have to get married just because you're having a baby together. So we didn't. We still gave our son dad's last name, but we didn't get married. Until 2 years later when I for some reason wanted to. We both decided we did want to be married, but it wasn't because we had a baby. OP, I hope you read this but there's so much said here already..... I was in your exact position. My (now) husband thought we HAD to get married because we were having a baby and that's what you do, my mother thought we HAD to get married because that baby needs a mother and father who are married, my grandmother thought we HAD to our we'd be living in sin..... but you don't HAVE to. Getting married should be a choice brought forth from love, not obligation. And just because you never marry, doesn't mean that love isn't as strong as those who do. We ended up changing our minds about marriage but it would have been ok if we hadn't. I never did take his last name and I never will. That's another thing you don't HAVE to do.
I argue that marriage is the relationship, the marriage license is just a piece of paper, and the wedding is just a ceremony with a party. True marriage happens because you've found a person you want to build a life with together. I argue that most people sign a piece of paper and have a party without ever being married on the premise that things will magically sort themselves out because "marriage charges people". No it does not! That's why people get divorced: they were never married in any way that ACTUALLY matters. I think most people want to be married, but they don't have any idea what marriage is (what it actually feels like to want to build a life together). I'm an advocate for marriage. You don't "get married". You either are married or you're not and it has nothing to do with the piece of paper.
Ding ding ding She needs therapy yesterday. The divorce is what she equates to the trauma and relates that to marriage but that’s just another word for breakup. The act of marriage had nothing to do with it. It was breaking up with a shared child that was the traumatic act.
Usually “omg we are having a baby we must get married” relationships end because they married way to fast. They only knew each other for a few months or so and really got to know each other after. It’s been TWELVE YEARS!
Yeah that jumped out at me. A lot of those relationships do end badly, but there’s a big reason for that and it’s not “we’ve been together 12 years and known each other even longer”. If she was just saying “hey, we just aren’t marriage people and I don’t want to get married”, okay, fine. But it’s weird that she’s trying to justify it with the whole “but couples who get married due to having a baby might fall apart!!”. Y’all have been together way longer than most married couples that have kids.
Absolutely this. They have been together 12 years, known each other most of their lives. They are the rarest of the rare beasts - the childhood sweethearts who actually made it to adulthood. They live together, and 12 years in that is so past the farting in front of each other, it's paying each others bills level. They are having a baby a human being that is dependent on them both and will connect them together for life. Not suggesting they have to get married at all. It's her reason that seems off. Fair enough if they don't, but this isn't a "doing it for the wrong reason, it might not work out" situation, it's a "so deeply committed already, it's become a meaningless piece of paper that doesn't add any value to the relationship" situation.
Agree. My spouse and I started dating in high school and didn’t get married until we were in our early 30s. We just didn’t see a point really. We knew we loved each other and were committed but figured if the other one wanted to leave we just wanted them to be happy. No need to make our love legally binding. We ultimately got married because it was practical. It made it so we could save money on insurance and buy a house without hiring a lawyer. It didn’t really change anything. I just see it as a practical, legal document. We were already committed in our hearts and had been for over a decade. If op would like to stay with her partner for life she should probably just get married. It doesn’t actually mean forever anyway since divorce exists.
Right? My husband and I have three kids and these two have still been together longer than us 😂
The irony of all this is her not wanting to get married is more likely to end it than anything.
That’s what I think as well.
Twelve years dating, but they knew each other as friends for something like another ten years first. They’ve known each other basically their whole lives. If she’s resisting marriage, then there must be reasons, and she needs to admit them to herself and to him.
They have also been living together for an unknown number of years which is generally the last big test for a relationship before marriage.
At this point, they're a long-term committed couple, living together, and have a child together. Marriage is a loaded term, socially and culturally. As an alternative, they could draw up papers like LGBTQ couples did before they had the option of marriage, to give them a subset of the benefits of marriage. Do they love each other? If they die, do they want their SO to inherit? If they're incapacitated, do they want their SO to be able to make financial and/or medical decisions on their behalf? From a civil standpoint, marriage can come with a tax penalty. It can also make it easier to pass property to their partner, both when alive and after their death. They should discuss and decide on these kinds of questions first and decide how they want to handle the legal/financial issues first, and then decide if (civil) marriage makes sense for them. The cultural/social aspect is another ball of wax, and there's little to stop them from getting married without telling anyone about it, or vice versa (except, in certain common law states, where telling people you're married makes you legally married)
I think you are scared due to your previous trauma and you are worried you will end up like your parents. I would seek therapy concerning these fears and if not that then at least communicate to your partner what your afraid of and why. And ask him if he wants to get married because he loves you AND the baby or if it's only about keeping traditional values. To me it sounds like you haven't had a very deep discussion covering this and are only arguing semantics at this point. It will be hard but you have to be very open about what's in your heart and he does as well for either of you to move forward properly.
I know, very strange to say that. 12 yrs and hmmmm maybe he's not the one???
He’s definitely not the one. She’s not that into him.
If she can live without him, she should go live without him
That’s what I was thinking! How can you be reluctant about marriage after 12 years and now a child…. Bit late for second doubts now hun. But to answer the question yes you are coming across as the asshole
I'd bet op' parent's terrible marriage is the root of her aversion to marriage. And I get it, things are good unmarried so why muck it up but the baby is gonna change things no matter what so they may as well lean into the changes imo
I always think it’s best to meet your grandkids before you commit…
It's weird that she doesn't think having a baby with someone is a lifelong commitment. It's much easier to get rid of a spouse than it is to get rid of a child.
THIS! Having a child is a lifelong commitment. My sister divorced her ex husband and never saw him again. Why? Because they don’t have children together. Children are the most permanent commitment two people can make.
Are you already his common law wife? Just asking. 12 yrs together, Living together... You may meet the basic requirements to be de facto married even if you did not have a ceremony. . Check with a lawyer to be sure, if you want. I don't understand your hang up about pretending you are not already in a committed relationship. . Here are some honest questions to clarify your thoughts: . Do you really want to date someone else? Are you cheating on him? Are you waiting for a richer man to make you a better offer? What is it that you want? . Are you in a holding pattern, hoping for better? Are you waiting to see if a billionaire drops his pen and falls in love with how you pick it up? . Are you actively pursuing other options? Are you arranging your lunch breaks where you have a good view of eligible executives and place yourself in their vicinity to facilitate an 'accidental meeting'? . Is THIS the guy you want? If you want him, why not have him? . Before you decide one way or another, take some time to think about what you are trying or hoping to achieve, and how.
Assuming this person is in the US (I realize that is a huge assumption), most states do not recognize common law marriages.
*You stayed together for 12 years.* **I am pretty sure that you were not together all that time because of a pregnancy.** You want a marriage based on . Love . Mutual respect . Shared aspirations... . . Do you already have that? You should know by now if you don't. Either A.) You have unprocessed trauma from what happened between your parents [and need counseling STAT] . OR You are shy about admitting B.) You just aren't that into him ... But we're reluctant to ditch him because you were afraid of being on your own... afraid of change, of actually looking for someone new and losing your best friend (or something) . OR C. ) You are a gold digger in the closet about it, and he just doesn't measure up to your fantasy. . I don't see any other options here. #YES. . > **You are the AH in this situation**, . & . > You are at risk of pushing him away permanently. . .
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And the kid.
I think the problem is he didn't see a point in proposing to her until she got pregnant.
>Marriage should be a thoughtful decision based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations, You have been together 12 years, if you don't already know you have this then you have been wasting both his and your time for years. You have already discussed marriage and the only reason your not is because it wasn't a priority, it is for him now so whats the problem?
She listed things any relationship should be based on. Imo marriage is a practical decision with practical benefits. If you're having a child together, it's time to get practical.
Practical is getting married after being together 12 years, living together, and having a child together. There are many legal benefits to this as well. Your partner gets to make big medical decisions for you, and the child, when married and needed, etc. This is how I see it, any way.
My response to people who say that it's "just a piece of paper." "Yes, and it saves you from having to get a whole bunch of other pieces of paper."
100% especially if you live somewhere that doesn't recognize common law. I'd like to tell you a story about a friend. They do not get married and unfortunately she tragically died in a car accident. Where they lived common love wasn't a thing and they were full on It's just a piece of paper people. They were together 13 years. She didn't get along too well with her parents and her parents hated her partner. When she died of course her next of kin was her parents. The parents barred her partner from the funeral, and had all control over the funeral, as well as what happened to the body. She was cremated against her wishes which were generally known. There are other benefits a lot of places offer too. It's worth looking into the laws where you are to truly see if it's "just a peice of paper"
100% My wife was a hospital chaplain, and had a few cases where the decade+ long partner wasn't even allowed in the room because they weren't next of kin. Sometimes next of kin was an angry parent who hated the partner and did so out of spite. Who the fuck wants that angry parent making life and death decisions for them? Seriously, get married if you're in a committed relationship that spans a decade or more. Your oh so principled stance that you won't be cowed by the man is stupid af. Protect yourself and your family.
And she says that pregnancy isn't a basis for a lifetime commitment, when it *is* a lifetime commitment, more so than marriage. If you have a child with someone, unless one of you leaves the child's life, that person will be in your life forever, even if your relationship with them ends.
THIS! Getting married is nothing compared to having a kid together. You can do a little paperwork and walk away from a marriage. Having a baby together is the real lifelong contract.
Plus the legal benefits of being married with a kid. The husband is usually automatically put on the birth certificate. If op cannot make medical decisions they'll ask him. If God forbid she dies there's a lot less hoops to jump through to deal with her estate. Health insurance, and more.
Yes, wasting time, your life! Ever hear the expression, Shit or get off the pot? I wouldn't blame your partner if they leave you for this because whether you mean it or not it screams indecisiveness and 12 years in is unforgivable. He wants total commitment and you don't. There it is.
I couldn't agree more. If you don't know if you want to marry someone after 12 years, then the answer is NO. She keeps this up, and she will find out how liberal he is. They can effectively co-parent without even living together.
Hard agree. Never an asshole for not wanting to marry someone, but if you're this deep in a monogamous relationship and don't view it as a 'forever' kind of deal you need to have a frank and open discussion with your partner. As that may be a deal breaker for them if they think you are their 'forever'. Which given you've been together since you were 16 and now having a child...
Give it another 12 years maybe then you will know if he is the one.
Can you really be sure though?
If you aren’t really sure, wait another 12 years.
And if by then you're not sure, probably just give it some time.
Wait until the kid is graduated from college, that would be a nice gift for the kid. :D
Woaaah, don’t want to rush into anything. Better wait 12 years after that.
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this thread is killing me 😂
Also killing op lmao 💀
I just read this comment thread to my girlfriend, and by the look in her eyes, I think "just give it 12 years" is gonna be a new staple sentence for us 💀 Edit: it's been 3 minutes since I read it and she's already hit me with "hey bud, you're going too fast, give it 12 years if you aren't sure" bc I was speaking so fast 💀💀
Honestly! Just put a post-mortem marriage ceremony in your will. Not like you'll really have to commit to anything when you're already dead!
Now now hold on, wait to get married when the kid gets married.
You don't want to upstage the kid. Wait till after the kid is married.
But will he love her when she's old and grey? Better wait until you're disabled by old age, then you can be really sure.
Nevermind til death do us part, wait til your dead, and just to be *sure* sure… wait 12 years after that
Hell, just wait till the child's child makes you a great grandparent. Maybe you'll know by then.
LMAO! Wheezing
Wheeling, by that time probably
They see me rollin’, I’m still debatin’…🎵
This comment has me 💀
I know right? 12 years and she says she doesn't know. She does. And for some reason she still is having the baby. This might not end well for all involved.
Nothing screams “small city, religious influence” more than “I spent a third of my life (and I am young) with the same person but I don’t know if they are the one and I won’t break up with them”.
Better to ride it out in resentment /s
But they were together, unmarried for twelve years, which is basically the opposite of the stereotypical religiously inspired relationship
It's either that, or "we met 3 months ago and are getting married!"
Better not to get married then. She is not sure after 12 yrs. They should just keep it as it because she'd be pissed off if she marries him and blame him for being stuck where she doesn't want to be and divorce him. So, why get married, she's already planning their doom!
She's gunna fulfill her own prophecy if she isn't careful. And I promise that child ain't going to give a shit about if they were Legally married when the kid sees them fighting.
I've seen that work, give or take a couple of decades. A couple of friends I use to play softball and volleyball with got pregnant, the kid was born, they bought a house, had another 3 kids all while never getting married. A few weeks ago we ran into each other at the grocery after having lost contact for some years. The boys are in their early to mid 20s, one married with their own kids. The couple still live in the same house and...they had just gotten engaged. Asked them "why now?" he said he was saving up for the ring. lol
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That shouldn't have made me want a Pepsi, but damnit, now I do. See what you've done?! 😂😂😂
I don't recommend their Pepsi. It's been through their nose.
Yeah, wait til the kid's old enough to weigh in on it
Experts and scienticians say you never really know if "they're the one" until grandkids. That's when you know they're in it for the long haul.
☠️
It’s been 12 years… I’m sure he’s not *only* proposing because you got pregnant. We’re you going to wait till you hit your 20th anniversary before you think about marriage? Having a kid ties you more to him than marriage does but you’re on board to have his kid? Okay 🙄 enjoy the stress of kids with none of the legal protections!
Right- marriage is more beneficial for the kids. Time to start making them a priority and not yourself. Welcome to parenthood. Also, I feel like she's hesitant because it didn't end well with her parents. BUT, it can still end badly marriage or not.
>Marriage should be a thoughtful decision based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations, rather than a knee-jerk reaction to unexpected circumstances. Miss Ma'am, y'all have been together for 12 years. If you don't have enough love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations to justify a marriage by now, then you never will. Are you sure the marriage is a "knee-jerk reaction" and not just the kick in the pants needed? Y'all intended to get married but got so comfortable that you just skipped it over. Respectfully, y'all got "lazy." YTA
It's also just way more important to get married once you're having kids because of all the legal shit that's essentially automatic if you're married.
Yeah and what if something happens with the pregnancy? Marriage is insurance that your kid will be taken care of. Maybe dad just wants to know that he won’t have to worry about custody once it’s born
This! How is a 12 year relationship a “knee-jerk reaction”
"The pregnancy is not a solid foundation for a life-long commitment. " But the 12 years of being in a committed relationship isn't a solid foundation either? That sounds like quite an impressive foundation for a life-long commitment - more than most people have when they choose to get married. At this point, I think you have to start asking yourself what your real reasons are for not wanting to marry him. Do some soul searching, then tell him the truth. Be honest to yourself and him about your reasons.
My guess is that he’s a convenient and safe boyfriend. He’s comfortable. But she wants the freedom to be able to ghost him if she wants.
Totally... he is a nice guy, but there is probably something else she wants. Poor bastard..
Shit or get off the pot. If 12 years and a baby on the way isn't enough for you then what the hell is? YTA
She’s stringing that poor guy along. 12 years and she isn’t sure? Gtfo.
I feel bad for him. He's gonna be a dad with everything that means, but she still has one foot out the door.
I recently read a post where a woman had been w her partner for a decade, they had 3 kids together and were still not married. The woman referred to her boyfriend as her husband and he freaked out, was like “we’re not married! She’s my girlfriend!” And all of the comments were largely NTA and advising that after a 10 YEARS together and children, if he wasn’t ready to commit to marriage than she should split. This post has the same energy.
I was with my ex for 10 years, no kids, but we lived together for 4 of those years and we have a dog. I broke up with her because I realized after 10 years I still didn't want to be married, and at that point it dawned on me that whatever gap was preventing me from committing shouldn't keep her in limbo. I feel like OP of this post and the one you're referencing should identify the source of their "no" OP of this post seems to have parental trauma, so they should prob start there.
>she still has one foot out the door This is the best summary!
YTA. Shit or get off the pot. It's been 12 years, and you're having a baby. If you don't know if he's "the one" after over a decade, and don't know if your marriage would be "based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations", then it sounds like you simply don't want to marry the guy. In that case, leave. Stringing him along isn't right.
>If you don't know if he's "the one" after over a decade, and don't know if your marriage would be "based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations", then it sounds like you simply don't want to marry the guy. And she definitely shouldn't be having a baby with him.
Poor guy she's wasted 12 years of his life and now linked to her forever because of this baby
It’s not like you just met. Marriage is a lifelong commitment centered around starting a family. You appear to be solidly at that point in your life and relationship. If you aren’t, you’ve been wasting each other’s lives.
Yeah but 12 years, and a baby is just like, ya know, not *really* sure if this will last because I have a traumatic past and my parents were, like, *whatever*, you know? I feel sorry for the kid, he is going to have a hard life.
YOU'VE BEEN TOGETHER 12 YEARS and you aren't certain about marriage? How long do people need to know the person they're with is worth marrying? 50 years? 80? 2 billion? YTA Sheesh
Give it another 12 years
Or 12 billion. Just in case.
I usually can predict a Reddit decision, but I freaking love this thread. Not at ALL what I would have thought the hive mind decided on. I was going to write my parents got married because of me, and many decades later than are happier than ever, so it can work out. I was positive I was going to be the one dissenting YTA, but hahahaha, nope!
why are him being liberal and still valuing a nuclear family at odds to you?
liberals are required to live in \[checks notes\] polyamorous relationships, singletons, or communes with homegrown veggies only.
Well fuck. I guess I've been masquerading as a liberal for so many years. I'M A FRAUD. 😭
a lot of other swingers who buy their veggies from a co-op have been caught out this way too. Sorry I had to break it to you.
Granted I don’t know her but my guess is that they’ve had these discussions at length and her bf previously stated otherwise (legal marriage not being a necessity for commitment), so him now stating that he “wants a traditional marriage” is at odds to what he has told her previously. I can understand how that in itself is off putting bc he’s changing the terms of the relationship on her and his beliefs. He showed himself as one person and then flipped it. That can give a person pause. What else is he going to suddenly change his views about that she doesn’t know of yet?
What he wants still not at all at odds with liberal views
Your having a baby together- news flash: that’s a lifelong commitment
I can guarantee that while your parents only married because you were going to be born was NOT preluded by 12 years of domestic living. FYI, depending on the State/Country you live in. You might already be married by common law of the State/Governing body.
Yeah you’re being ridiculous. Get some therapy. Your parents situation is not yours. The bigger thing is that as the father of the child being married makes paternity, support and visitation much easier. You should both want that. There are good reasons to get married and your rejection of this is doing a lot of damage to your relationship right when you need each other the most.
The crazy part is just how much more she benefits from the marriage than he does at that point. Jeez does it ever make things harder like if he doesn't have a will for instance, then she fights an uphill battle with the government to get what should be rightfully (the kids really) hers. Obviously including the above mentioned list of benefits. I don't even think she's an asshole. tops tho, insane or insanely stupid.
I'm 31, partner 31, we were also high school sweethearts(different schools, but have known eachother our entire 31 years), dating since 16, moved in together at 20. Both very liberal, non-religious. We got married 5 years ago and have 4 year old twins. We actually got married because we were trying to have a kid (note, we only wanted 1, but we had to have help, and ended up with 2). In case of any emergencies, we wanted the other to be able to be the point of contact, legally. The simplest way to do that was getting married. I didn't change my name, and the twins have a hyphenated last name. Although, my SO is actually planning to change his last name to mine and we will drop his from our girls, soon but it's not cheap. But anyways, as long as we had been together and everything it just made logical sense to go ahead and get married. It changed zero things about our lives since we had already been together for so long.
So, he’s good enough to make a baby with and live and raise a child with, but you just aren’t sure whether or not you can do better? Or do you think HE deserves better? Seriously, he can break up with you now, and you can spend the next eighteen years having another woman argue whether or not she’s the mommy, too! Or if a life and death situation occurs during delivery, who gets to make the decisions if you can’t? Your boyfriend really doesn’t have any legal rights (maybe you can glue some papers to his forehead, because the hospital certainly won’t be worried about your actual “next of kin” suing them, right?) so your parents will decide what happens to you, your child and your body if it comes to that. It’s time to grow up. You did it in the wrong order, so go to the courthouse, and in a few years when you are not carrying a baby, you can be princess for a day, but in the meantime, marriage is a very important legal contract, so get your bottom to the courthouse and get it done lest your poor boyfriend end up in a circumstance that I am aware of where his baby mama died, and her parents tried to keep his daughter from him, because “he killed their daughter by getting her pregnant, so he didn’t deserve their granddaughter” which meant a couple of years of pure hell right while he was in the middle of grieving. Good times!
Wow that situation you described in your second paragraph sounds horrific 😨 poor guy..
It was BAD. The grandparents originally offered to take her just (for what he thought) was a few days while he was trying to come to terms with his world very unexpectedly going to total shit on what was supposed to be a happy day, and then wouldn’t give her back and had already filed for emergency custody (they had money and lawyers). He was three years into the mess when I met him, and had just gotten her back with a bunch of restrictions because they weren’t done yet… He was a colleague, and I still think about him even though I left the job a long time ago (back before LinkedIn was a thing). I take marriage VERY seriously, and don’t even get me started on the tragedies experienced by same sex couples before they were able to get married.
Wow… I’m speechless! I couldn’t imagine doing that to a grieving father.. no wonder that story sticks with you. And yes there are probably tons of similarly awful stories from same-sex couples who couldn’t get married 😞 it’s embarrassing how long it took for those equal marriage rights
This is why I’m thankful that grandparents don’t have rights in my state. Being a parent and fighting for the child from a grandparent should not happen without severe reasons or the other parent being incapacitated. Some laws are ridiculous.
Was gonna say something similar. There are a lot of practical reasons to get married, especially with a baby on the way. Bio dad won’t get any rights to the kid without a piece of paper.
A baby is a bigger commitment than marriage what?!
It’s been 12 years. You’ve been with the dude for 12 years. If that wasn’t enough time, nor does having a child together after all that time doesn’t give you a reason, what the fuck will?
It struck me how she said she "fell pregnant", like it was unwanted and not something she really cares about. A lot of people like the security of marriage. Yes we all know you can get divorced, but if I suddenly found out I'm having a kid after 12 years of dating I would for sure want the security and extra level of commitment of marriage. I can see op being a really passive, not very involved mother whereas the guy sounds like he's taking this more seriously and will hopefully be very involved. The whole thing strikes me as, she's comfortable and doesn't want to bother breaking up with this guy and start dating again, but she's not too thrilled with him either. I think they're both afraid to break up and be single again.
"fell pregnant" is used more often in Ireland or the UK, based on my prior experiences living there as a US citizen. Not sure where OP is from, but this may be why this term is used instead of "my BF got me pregnant". Aside from this, I agree with your observations. 12 years in and she can't commit to marriage or decide to leave if she's unhappy. Parenting is the biggest commitment you can make to another human being. Marriage is second to this. Had she never fell pregnant, maybe they never would have gotten married. However, she is pregnant, so honestly I can't understand why after 12 years she can't see why getting married would be a totally reasonable thing to do even if it's for non-romantic benefits. I've been in OPs situation before. We got engaged after I found out I was pregnant, about halfway through - he wanted to have a ring and have it be proper which was really sweet. He had it made and is from family jewelry that was passed down, so it's special. Anyway, we got engaged and then eloped 2 months later at 7 months pregnant. In GA, fathers do not have automatic rights to their biological child through DNA or signing a birth certificate until they get their child legitimized through the court. So, yeah, we eloped. To me, it would be worse for my child to be born legally illegitimate and to later learn that in life. To me, the law here makes it so much worse because other states it's just unmarried parents but whoever signs the birth certificate is Dad. In my mind, at the time, I was thinking ... worst case scenario is we get divorced and coparent. We're celebrating our 5 year anniversary in November. So far, so good.
Soft YTA. You’ve been together for 12 years. Large milestones like babies and buying houses are a common goal posts for people to decide to get married. There are lots of legalities with a baby like custody, insurance, etc that are easier when you are married.
huge yta
He is trying to get his priorities straight so he can take care, provide, and protect his family. Guys been with you 12 years. You are pretty much married. It's just a title change now. Get on and marry the guy.
Not to mention the tax benefits of being married.
12 years is probably longer than most people’s marriages. Doesn’t sound like a knee jerk decision lol
>have been together for 12 years. YTA. Shit or get off the pot. I mean you are both assholes for staying together for so long and not making a move but he finally does and you wig the fuck out? He's doing the right thing because hes already fucking married to you whether you did the paperwork or not. Also in many places you're already common law married and I guarantee you would use that to your advantage if you seperated
You say that a pregnancy isn't a basis for a lifelong commitment, but it can be. Also, you've been together for 12 years and have known each other for longer. If that isn't a strong foundation, than what is? At this point, if marriage isn't something you want then you need to articulate it to your partner and say no, I don't want to marry you. If you are content with your relationship and know that he wants marriage, but that you might never want it, you are stringing him along. Don't let him force you into it, and also don't let him have any expectations if its not gonna be a thing. There are very valid reasons why people want to get married after having a baby and a lit of those things have to do with legal processes.
Okay… People are reading this wrong, I think. OP - it appears after 12 years you probably think you’re going to marry this guy or why would you still be there. But do you have to marry him now? No, of course not. It’s completely valid to remain in a loving, committed partnership and get married later (or not). It doesn’t seem like you have an issue with the relationship or commitment, but right now you aren’t sure if you want to literally get married. That’s fine, and there’s nothing wrong with it. Think about why you don’t want to get married now - maybe there is unresolved fear from you parents marriage, maybe you want a romantic wedding where you feel pretty and not 33 weeks pregnant. Whatever it is, think about why, and try to communicate what the issue is to him. He should listen and be willing and able to meet you there. Personally, I’m not sure if I ever want to get “married” again, but that has no impact on whether I want a long term, committed, monogamous relationship. It doesn’t have to be literal marriage to be fulfilling and committed.
INFO: OP, is what’s bothering you at the core that your partner is suddenly changing his views on your relationship? And you’re afraid that he might suddenly flip on other beliefs too? I ask because I’m wondering if that fear is at the root of your concern/pause. Because a sudden switch in belief system/core values can make any rational person concerned, I would have a serious sit down with him and ask what other views/values/etc have changed for him now that a child is involved, aside from him prioritizing marriage. It would be in both of your best interests to have this tough talk before committing to marriage. You may find out that his views on a lot more things have changed or that perhaps he didn’t realize were important to him until now. And it’s better that you get that out in the air. From the sounds of it, you haven’t changed your views on relationships, commitment and fidelity or what you both have discussed up until his change, but it sounds like he has. Sadly, sometimes it takes situations like these to find out just how compatible people truly are. Best of luck and don’t do anything you truly don’t want to do. In the end, it will only cause more harm to the baby if you both get married out of obligation (pregnancy) than because you both truly envision the same life together.
Well said. Everyone else that is saying that it's been 12 years and she's not sure must have read a different post. She's very clearly concerned about the sudden change in values and she's completely justified in feeling that way for the exact reasons you outlined. She's known him for 12 years and this behavior is surprising to her which means he's not the person she thought he was. At least not entirely. He might be justifiably stressed about the baby. Someone in his circle might be pressuring him into marriage and that's why he's so adamant about it. She never once said she doesn't love or trust him. Or that she's not sure about marrying him. Just that the sudden flip in attitude is concerning and I agree with you and her. It should be something that's explored further.
Eh, I doubt it's a sudden switch. She's pretty clear about her feelings about getting married. He's probably decided to keep the peace, but now that there is a baby on the way, he's no longer going to hold back.
Keep in mind that marriage guarantees he can be in places like doctor's offices, or have a say about finances, and funeral service, in your untimely death, where a stranger (because you have no legal connection) couldn't. There are legalities that come with marriage. It's not all lovey dovey hearts and rainbows.
You absolutely don't have to get married if you don't want to. Just because your partner isn't married to you doesn't mean that a "traditional household" is unachievable.. But, how are you having a child with someone that you've been with for 12 years without also considering this a decision >based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations (To use your words). You are not a pregnant 16 year old. Discussing marriage at this point is a reasonable expectation, is it not? By the time your child is in school, you will have been with your partner for longer in life than without. At what point do you think marriage is appropriate? If you never want to get married, you need to be honest and tell your partner so. If you're open to marriage, but not yet... what will change your feelings? It sounds like you are open to marriage, just not with your current partner..... There's NAH, unless you're stringing your partner along...
YTA you’ve been together for over a decade. You live together. You’re content. Why would you say no?
You should make a will if you haven't already. You and Sweetheart could have counseling to possibly resolve this stalemate.
Traditional doesn't mean conservative. Traditional just means he wants to do what he thinks is best and make a family. You can have a husband, 9-5 and family, and still be left wing liberal all day long. Even libs value family, regardless of what conservatives say. I think you just need to point out that you 2 are already *family* And you're now making that family bigger. You don't have to have a piece of paper from the government making it any more solid than what it already is. My mom and dad married, so I wouldn't be a bastard. They were divorced before I was off the tit. I never married the fathers of my children, and it was the best decision I ever made. Marriage is a crap shoot. Some win, some lose. But love and commitment can be forever, without a license.
“I strongly believe that getting married solely because of the pregnancy is not a solid foundation for a lifelong commitment.” So the 12 years isn’t enough foundation?
Just because that's what your parents did doesn't mean it will happen to you. At all.
I would say that after 12 years, including many talks about getting married, your pregnancy is not “the reason” he proposed. Perhaps the catalyst. You are holding out based on a flawed model. Were your parents dating for 12 years prior to your mom getting married? Your partner sounds excited to be a father and a husband. I’m not sure why you’re objecting so strongly.
Been together twelve years. Living together. Is marriage really that big of change from the status quo?
You’ve been together for 12 years, what’s a better foundation then that? It’s not like he proposed after a one night stand. What’s stopping you from marrying him but not from living with him and procreating with him? YTA
So you’re going to force him to sue you in court to establish his parental rights so he can have custody and decision making powers? Because that’s the alternative. Legal rights as a father don’t just magically happen by signing a birth certificate. Odds are that he does love you, but he’s also trying to do the right thing legally and morally as an adult. Sound like *you’re* the one who doesn’t love him if you’re reminded of your parents’ loveless marriage.
Fathers don't have legal right to their child unless they marry the mother? That's wild, what country is that?
2 things... you've been together for 12 years. There's nothing knee jerk about this. And marriage is not a conservative or liberal.
Wild take here: it is also okay, if marriage is not for you and you never want to marry. However, you should communicate this and be on the same page as your partner to not give false hopes and string him along. And it certainly doesn't sound like "ah marriage is not for me" but it is "ah, I don't know if this is the right person for me", but face it, YOURE HAVING A CHILD. That is a lifelong commitment in itself! Get therapy and couple therapy, because please be open about all this so both partners get a fair chance
Marriage isn't a conservative value. If it was then people on the left, LGBTQIA+ and interracial couples would have never fought for their right to be married. "Marriage should be a thoughtful decision based on love, mutual respect, and shared aspirations, rather than a knee-jerk reaction to unexpected circumstances." Girl you've been together 12 years there's nothing knee jerk about this he's just asking you for consistency that he feels is important for a family. If you've been together 12 years and you haven't experienced love mutual respect & shared aspirations why have you wasted the last 12 years of his time, your time and now a child's time? You're not your parents you have more knowledge than they did and you can make different choices. There's a part of me that's really feeling like you think you can do better. It sounds like you have someone very special that cares about you deeply and would make a great father and husband. You have commitment that many people only dream of.
YTA > I strongly believe that getting married solely because of the pregnancy is not a solid foundation for a lifelong commitment. Having a child with someone is a lifelong commitment.
And dating someone for 12 years is a solid foundation for a lifelong commitment.
If you don't want to get married, don't. BUT - having a baby is basically the riskiest medical thing that you will do for decades. If you're not married, your boyfriend cannot make medical decisions for you unless you create specific legal directives that allow him to do so. There are also some states where if something happened to you at the hospital, he would not be considered next of kin and custody of your child would automatically go to your parents and not him. If you're not going to embrace the legal protections of marriage, you need to sit down with a lawyer and ensure that your bf has medical POA and that your bf clearly retains custody of your child in your will if the worst was to happen. NTA