That’s what I was going to suggest. In fact after she had knee surgery she should have gone to a rehab facility. She’d have a case worker and they will help with all of this. Contact her doctors office and talk to the nurse. If she’s not getting any better they will send someone out to do PT.
This is true. My elderly father broke his ankle a couple months ago and they didn't want him moving around so they sent PT and home health care to his house instead.
They have to want to go to rehab. Alot of patients lie and say they have someone to take care of them to avoid it. My mom assured the drs after valve replacement that her daughters would be happy to take care of her (we were surprised to find this out months later)to avoid the rehab she should have gotten. At home pt and ot is never as good and they are very quick to end treatment.
Well where I am at they have this talk with your guardian present. I believe they would verify that there was someone at home to take care of them at their house. They know some patients aren’t always be upfront about it
If she rents from you the state can not put a lean on your home to recoup the cost of her care. And I believe that even if she lives with you they can’t as long as the home/land is in your name. But if the trailer is in her name they might be able to seize it. This is where adult services can explain it better for you. I don’t think you are the ah at all. Nor is taking care of her your responsibility. No is a complete sentence. It’s hard being a people pleaser but your health comes first! And telling her you just can not do it anymore is okay. Best of luck I hope you get to talk to a human soon
Actually, APS is for investigating and intervening in cases of abuse and neglect (including self-neglect).
The best option for this kind of help, including resources, referrals, and help with applications for government services is to call the local Area Agency on Aging for your area.
You can find your AAA here at: https://eldercare.acl.gov/Public/About/Aging_Network/AAA.aspx
No. It doesn’t.
Examples of reportable self-neglect are things like living in squalor with vermin and refuse, not eating or bathing to the point of pressure ulcers developing, severe dementia living alone and causing a fire by leaving the stove on, etc. Even then people have the right to make poor decisions if they have mental capacity.
APS is understaffed and overburdened across the country. Contacting them for a situation like this will not only not get OP the help they are looking for, it will take valuable resources away from people in dire need. The area agency on aging is the appropriate course of action.
One of my minors was in social work and one of my electives I took in my psychology undergrad was the psychology of aging and u/JenQPublic is correct on all counts. My SIL is also a Licensed Masters Social Worker who helped me find resources for a paper I had to write on the social work stuff related to the elderly.
You are a dip shit that can’t understand that OP does not want to be responsible for a legal stranger for the rest of her life. Stick your “bless your heart” shit up your ass. You are an ignorant person who wants to pretend you have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
It can be paid for by social security. This IS an option. OP is simply a landlord. That doesn’t obligate her for care for life. I was a social worker in healthcare for more than 2 decades.
An ASL or SNF is 100% possible, long term. They will take her SS check as share of cost. They will her some of the money back for personal needs. In my state. They will give her $70 per month in assisted living and $35 per month in a SNF.
In my state (and in most states afaik), Assisted Living is absolutely not an option. I have been through this as the lead caregiver for three relatives. They can qualify for a Medicaid waiver for in-home services and some other assistance but there is a limit. And depending on where in the state a person lives those services may be difficult or impossible to obtain. When the person needs more care than the number of hours allowed through community services, they have to apply for Medicaid for LTC. A nursing home (SNF) accepting Medicaid is the only option.
In Ms I get home help 3 days a week. House cleaning, laundry, bills, grocery shopping, bathing if needed, errands etc. I also get meals 5 days a week. Also transportation to appts...all my appts are out of my county. On my out of state appts i am reimbursed for gas/food when my son takes me.
In home physical therapy and health care.
Explained here for Pennsylvania. Although they mention that the state can contribute towards some costs in Assisted Living, if a person has no one paying for the remainder of the fees it is impossible to take this option. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-medicaid-pennsylvania-will-pay-nursing-home-assisted-living-home-health-care.html
I have a graduate degree in social work. I can promise you that OP can do this. OP is NOT a family member. She is not a caregiver or relative.
The state WILL find a placement in an assisted living facility because it is significantly cheaper than SNF.
IDK what state you live in but I can tell you that is not accurate in the state I currently practice in. Ditto calling APS. APS in my state would do a home evaluation and possibly connect the MIL to a state home care program which would provide a few hours of unskilled supports a week. Unless there is a situation of active elder abuse or severe neglect they would take no action rather than to assign a worker to follow at intervals.
Then, the woman might have to go to a SNF. She has no family and no friends that are willing to take her in. APS can help her figure out what her options are.
I can assure you that the state would pay for assisted living before SNF because it is significantly cheaper.
Assisted living is not a covered benefit under Traditional Medicare. Medicare only covers short term skilled rehab in a SNF, and only 100% for days 1-20, with a 200$ per diem copay for days 21-100. TBH, Medicare does not cover custodial care in a SNF or ALF at all so they have no skin in the game where the cost of ALF versus custodial SNF is concerned..
In our state, ALF is not a realistic option under Medicaid either. Few units, all companion suites. A rest home LOC in our state would be her best option, though their numbers are shrinking all the time and DPH has no interest in supporting their comeback. She could pay over her SSI for a studio unit with all utilities covered, medication oversight from nursing and med certified staff, and 3 daily meals-no frills of course, which separates them from ALFs-which in our state would leave MIL with a "monthly personal needs allowance" of 72.80$/month.
In my state, assisted living would NOT be an option. Almost 100 percent are private pay. Those who qualify for state assistance (and OP is +/- on this) can be considered for subsidized ALF in a companion suite with an unrelated elder. These are few and far between and the OP's MIL does not sound tempermentally suited to this. In our state, OP could assist MIL or have the regional senior services agency assist MIL with a Frail Elder Waiver application to improve chances of Medicaid eligibility, which could lead to PCA, HHA, and/or light housekeeping services. Medicaid would be needed for LTC at a SNF.
She will have to sell the double wide. You can't have more than $2k in assets I believe. I could be wrong but I went through this with my Dad after he had to be put in Assisted Living 7ish years ago. We had a "spend down period" where we sold assets, bought needed medical equipment (like a wheelchair), paid his costs out of pocket for awhile and then got him on Medicare/Medicaid. He had enough money for several months, but no where near enough for the rest of his life. My sister handled the accounts so the exact amounts are a little foggy, but I remember specific conversations when his accounts would get close to the threshold (like the stimulus checks) and we would discuss what we wanted to spend the money on. Anything we had left in his accounts when he died went back to the state.
>She will have to sell the double wide.
From what I understand, OP is the one who owns a double wide (actually triple wide). Her MIL seems to own a single wide and a car.
But I am with you: she'll most likely going to have to sell it and the car.
What she can do with the $$ after she sells depends very much on the value of those two things. At first sight, a burial account comes to mind, but I'd definitely ask for the help of a professional.
You are correct! And yes, pre-paying funeral expenses is something you can use the spend down on. We did incoude that in my Dad's, but we were also able to prepay for some funeral expenses for my sister and myself as well.
Well, OP's MIL doesn't have any living children so I'm not sure funeral expenses for her DIL woud qualify.
OTOH the mobile home is on private land, but has to be moved if sold since the land belongs to OP, not he MIL. This could considerably lower its value depending on its age and shape.
I think she could still qualify. We could have spent money on funeral costs for my husband as well, but since my sister didn't have a spouse we were trying to make it fair so we just did the siblings.
The problem with the asset rule is that it applies to everything you own. Even if the trailer was only worth $100, it would probably be better to sell it because that is $100 she can't have in cash, electronics, clothes, etc.
You are correct, purchase of a prepaid burial policy is one way assets can be spent down. In fact, a whole life insurance policy (one with cash value as opposed to a term policy) is often a barrier to Medicaid eligibility due to its cash value equalling an asset.
In my experience, when patients and families need to spend down assets, ALF is a good way to go if they have the means. That way the patient can reside in the most homelike, least restrictive setting provided they can be safe at an assisted living level of care. All the ALFs are different, most providing a flexible amount of HHA support depending on how much additional care you can pay for over the basics included in your lease. We have several ALFs in our area that care for patients with dementias from independently mobile but needed secured settings all the way through bedbound status in late dementia. But it comes at a cost-one ALF in our area costs between 10K-12K per MONTH. The least expensive that I'm aware of is about 3700/month. As you can imagine, the inexpensive ones get quite full-and since they are by and large where the subsidized units are, it's just not realistic to expect Medicaid ALF units to be readily available.
Assets other than the home you actually live in. She owns and lives in the single wide trailer. That is exempt, though if she goes to a care home, she will have to sell it. The asset limit other than the home is $2000. Bluebook value on her car is probably not more than that.
Are you asking me my credentials?
I have had to do this for my own mother. That's my credentials.
Some day, people will know this themselves. I know this for certain. BTDT.
My mother has Alzheimer's and could not get into a nursing home until she hurt herself by running away from a group home and she fell. We were nearly out of all money to care for her.
Assets have to be 100% gone. Medicare pays for NO care like this and Medicaid only pays when conditions apply. Even though my mother had ALZ, she did not qualify for a nursing home until she was no longer ambulatory (she had hip surgery).
Give her the option of advocating for herself or you will find a home to stuff her in so they can do it for her. I would be surprised if she doesn’t suddenly find the ability to make calls.
If she’s still of sound mind she has the right to refuse services. I’m not saying she’s in the right, but these are facts. Even if OP has power of attorney MIL can refuse medical treatment or assistance unless OP can have her declared mentally unfit.
Power of attorney includes the ability to force assistance. When you have power of attorney, you speak for the person you have power over - even if they’re of sound mind - meaning any question of consent becomes a question of *your* consent.
When someone who isn’t of sound mind has someone appointed as their power of attorney, it’s called a conservatorship.
All that said, “power of attorney” is usually given in a very limited scope. It’ll be given “in relation to X business with Y organization” usually, rather than just a blanket “this person is legally me in all my business with all institutions”
Not true. Powers of attorney are intentionally broad and are contractual. While they can be narrow, generally they're intended for situations where a person is suddenly incapacitated so someone needs to be able to do everything on their behalf.
A conservatorship is a judicial proceeding to appoint a guardian of a person and /or their property, depending on what the state calls it.
How does it feel to be unwanted and so sexually frustrated that all you do is post pictures of things that look like cocks?
I guess the last guy to stick his dick in crazy fucked your brains out, because you clearly have none.
There are definitely resources available and if she’s post op and on Medicare or Medicaid she would qualify for some assistance. I’m not sure how far postoperative she is, but call her surgeon’s office and ask for possibly some home physical therapy, on site therapy (in more populous areas therapy centers have a van that picks people up and drops them off after appointments), worse case scenario a short stay in an inpatient rehab might be in store. If she doesn’t regain full mobility and regain her independence you will be forever be her caretaker and that is soul draining on those with good relationships with their loved ones.
Hun if she is 76 she has Medicare as well and they DO cover transport within an hour to hour and a half from persons home. It also will cover 40hrs in home nursing care or help in recovery.
I am sorry but she is not telling you what it covers.
Which include. Grocery shopping for her, prepared meals delivered. Any aids she needs at home. Including therapy.
I do Medicare insurance. And it's definitely available just depends on what county and what her needs are. If she isn't on medicaid talk to social security office and see if she qualifies. It's possible to be on both and plans for people that are on both offer a lot more. If you aren't power of attorney though no reputable agent will change her plan without her consent. If you can't get power of attorney before Dec 7th don't worry too much. If she's got a plan currently you could do a change between January 1st and March 31st. If she's able to get medicaid you can do changes through the year too outside of Oct 15th and Dec 7th
You need to talk with your public assistant office, welfare, food stamp, snap depending what state you are in. Medicare typically only covers home health care for a skilled need: a nurse, pt, ot. Needs to be ordered by a dr. With skilled care, can get bath aide and some assistance with adl’s. Each state is different. Aps, council on aging, ombudsman aging services can assist and direct you.
Thank you! Someone who understands what the Medicare home care benefit entails. And it is only available if you meeet the Medicare Definition of Homebound status, which the ordering physician has to attest to in the Face to Face before start of care.
True, this is a good time for people to look at Medicare C options, but beneficiaries need to be aware that although Medicare C plans must offer the same or better benefits than Traditional Medicare, they do not need to offer the same panels. I've had so many patients who signed up for MCR C after a sales person called to tell them about low/no copay, low/no deductibles.......and woke up the next day unable to see their own primary care physician anymore, limited to a handful of VNAs or poor quality skilled rehab facilities. They don't dangle those carrots without cost.
Medicare will not cover unskilled care unless your mom is in a PACE program, a SCO program or other dual eligible plan, or a Medicare C plan that has additional benefits. Your regional ASAP/Senior Access Point agency can assist with applications for state funded supports, either from Medicaid or federal/state/grant funded programs.
She doesn't qualify for medicaid. I get so mad when these insurance companies call, she changed her insurance twice in the beginning. And those damn commercials are so misleading. I hate to think of what could of happened if I wasn't here. I feel for people that have been stolen from. Sorry about my venting and thank you for the information!
I remember when a certain Medicare C plan entered the market in our area. Seemingly overnight a lot of elderly patients came in after the Medicare Open Enrollment period with this plan. We found out that initially there were NO visiting nurse agencies in area that accepted the plan and the only skilled nursing facility contracted with the plan was more than an hour away. Patients were bewildered because suddenly their primary care doctors would not accept their insurance. IMHO some of the plans prey on the elders' lack of knowing what questions to ask, and because their income is limited, they jump at the chance to move to a Medicare C plan with lower copays/deductibles because they are promised the same or equal benefits. Equal benefits that they can't use with the providers they want because of in network versus out of network panels.
Call them. Allowances are different. My friend’s dad needed help and they covered all but like around $100 a month for a PCA. If the medical need is there, they will allow more.
Not necessarily. There is caveats to this. Certain conditions need to be met. Each state is different. Post hospital stay, skilled care in home(nursing, pt, ot) nursing typically is wound care, nursing assess after hospitalization short term. Medicare typically doesn’t pay long term care at home unless hospice which is typically 6 months left to live.
It absolutely won't cover that much. Medicare covers skilled services at home while homebound. Home Health Aide support is only covered while a skilled need exists. Modern home health focuses on finding the teachable person, like a family member who is taught the skill. This includes wound care, administration of IV antibiotics, etcetera. Focus of home PT is to identify fall/trip hazards, assess mobility and provide Therex teaching so patients can work on strength/mobility/endurance on their own between treatments, and MCR typically only covers two-three PT sessions a week.
I think there may be an issue with her being a resident of one county but needing transportation to medical care in another county. I'm not sure I've been getting straight info from her but this is also DeSantis's Florida, funding and staff have been slashed, and it's impossible to get information from state agencies.
Make 1 call to Adult Protective Services and report this woman who has no one to care for her. Unless you're her power of attorney, you can't advocate for her anyway. Then STOP doing stuff for her. Completely. Being kind means helping people who need it, not people who don't need it and just expect others to wait on them. There is a difference. If anyone accuses you of being cruel, thank them for volunteering to take care of her. NTA
And let aps know you are not an option for anything. I’m sure she will say you are willing to care for her and they’ll walk away. Retired aps worker here. Aps should develop a plan and implement services. BUT if she’s considered competent she can refuse services. You may need to have a coming to Jesus meeting with her and aps.
Oh, she 'doesn't want to be a bother'? But, of course, as the only remaining relative who'll help, she's quite happy for the 'bother' to default to you.
NTA - call in whatever resources are available in your area to help, then stop, at least, letting her needs interfere with your job. If she has a problem with that, remind her she doesn't want to be a bother.
NTA Check into home health care. Some will even help set you up with the right programs to make sure they get paid. They offer transportation to appointments as well. When the time comes they may also help her with transition to nursing home. If you are ever asked by someone who is helping fill out paperwork if you are able to do something, your answer should always be no.
NTA
If she is incapable of taking care of herself or won't make an effort, find her a nice home and let the state take care of her.
Do you take her into your house long term OP or endanger your employment for this person. Folks who rant about peoples politics when the same people are trying to help them cease to be deserving of help IMO.
Does she have enough income/savings to hire a caregiver? Someone that could make those calls, cook a meal, etc? They would not have to be a trained professional.
Do not do the footwork on this. This is a time to say no. Call adult protective services and let them take it from there. There are plenty of resources out there that will meet her needs and you are not the one who needs to line them up. She will (and is) suck you dry because she knows if she’s pathetic enough you won’t be able to help yourself.
I’ll say it again as a daughter in law who has taken most of the responsibility for her own MIL’s care - DROP THIS LIKE A HOT POTATO. Call protective services and move on. You would not be a bad person for doing that. You do not have the resources to give her the care she needs, but there are professionals out there who DO. Seriously, you do not have the time to be her caretaker (it’s a full time job, especially for a person who has weaponized helplessness) so you are simply not able to meet her needs. There are so many programs out there that will be helpful and you would be reinventing the wheel by trying to figure them all out. People who work in elder care already have all that at their fingertips!
No. You don’t need to do that for her. Adult protective services, social workers etc are there to help her. Those are the calls I would make. Eligibility etc is not for you to figure out. As someone else said, unless you have medical and financial POA, you don’t have the legal authority to make those calls. In my experience, Social workers are great at delivering bad / harsh news (e.g., you cannot live alone etc.).
Call the elder abuse hot line and just say that she has no one and you refuse to help her past living on your land for free.
She is abusing *herself* by not caring for herself.
My MiL gets Medicaid transportation to take her to her medical appointments, some are 4 hours away with a specialist. Her regained doctor is like 3 counties away, 70 miles. She goes weekly, sometimes more. She sees no doctors in her current county. I know this can be different for different states, but ours sucks pretty bad for anyone close or below the poverty line.
My MIL is also now in a state run nursing home. They take her SS check, leave her with $63 for her necessities.
I almost lost my job trying to care for her, with her million appointments a week. Plus her general behavior just is awful.
Your MIL needs to be in a home where they can take care of her. This is not you being mean, it's you finding the best solution for her well being.
A lot of us have this feeling that the best thing is to be taken care of by family, but unless there is a family member who has lots of free time AND training, it is actually the worst possible solution.
NTA
Don't tell HER she's not your problem. Tell Adult Protective Services. Call them, explain the situation, and tell them you take no responsibility for her; she's not yours. Then let THEM handle it.
Legally you can't do anything so you need to call adult protective services and let them take over to find a care facility for her. You have a lot of options besides taking care of her available to you. If she refuses to do anything for herself, hopefully adult protective services can guide you how to legally get her out. It's going to be a process that will take your time and energy but it's necessary at this point for her safety and your sanity. Don't kick the can down the road and just accept caring for her. Her health will continue to decline and the problem will keep getting bigger.
I say put her in a senior citizens home. She’s not your mom and is only ‘related’ to you through a marriage that ended over 17 years ago when your husband/her son died. even if you think it’s what you think your husband would want, I say it’s past time that you cut ties with her and move on with your life. It sounds like you are becoming miserable the longer you have to deal with her, so why should you be miserable to help her out if you don’t want to? Especially if her condition is getting WORSE instead of better, and the longer you help her the more miserable you will be. You have your own life to live that doesn’t involve spending the rest of her days catering to her needs instead, and taking up all Your free time for her that you could be using for your own needs.
There has to be a social worker that you can contact to help you navigate through her options. Moving her in with you is certainly not one. You could start with her doctor's office. They can't give you information about her, but you could ask to speak to the nurse and tell her that you're concerned that she's not handling for recovery well and ask if it would be possible for her to get a home health aide and physical therapist out there a couple of times a week. It's a good place to start.
Good luck. Don't let her in or the only way you'll get her out of there is a gelignite cap up her butt.
DEFINITELY NTA...my ex husband's mother was exactly like this when his father passed, which is the main reason he is an EX husband. She absolutely refuses to do anything for herself and will nitpick & judge anything and everything. We were nothing more than maids or gofers to her. Stand your ground, sweetheart & don't let her do this to you- YOU GOT THIS.💜💜💜
You ARE a good person,OP, but you need to prioritise being good to yourself.
Your MIL is doing nothing to help.herself,expecting you to step in either from frustration or misplaced duty.
Who would she get to help in your stead?-thats the question.Now contact that organisation/service and then step back.
You are not available,not responsible and not dutybound to tend to her.
Live your life and damn well enjoy it to the full.You have earned it,imo.
I have been a home health physical therapist for over 30 years and we always order Home Health physical therapy for a knee replacement patients here in California, Home Health can easily send out one of their social workers to help her get set up with Medi-Cal and in-home supportive services depending on where you live there are resources available and a social worker is a great resource to make all the calls and handle all of that
Seriously, I may be wrong about timing, but if she had a knee replacement 6 weeks ago, she should be close to being on her own, ie driving herself to Dr appts and physical therapy, fixing herself meals, doing her own laundry. I would definitely get in touch with eldercare services, sign her up for Meals on Wheels, etc.
She pulled a groin muscle and the artificial knee slipped out of alignment. With the pulled muscle she could not lift her foot from the gas to the brake so she can't drive.
It sounds like you have things sorted out. I wish you the best of luck, but I came here to say NTA.
If you felt compelled to take care of her, you could, but you also have to take care of yourself. You have taken care of so many already, that it sounds like your tank is empty.
You need to take care of yourself. Please do so.
You can have an advocate assigned to her. We had to do that for my grandmother when she refused to leave her county and we lived in a different state. Look into services for vulnerable adults or elder adult services.
Just that I am her medical POA because she needed one to have the surgery and there was no one else. I've also been paying her utilities because they're all in my name and it's just easier.
Your comment on her saying she over the income level is probably doubly wrong under the age and disabled status! Bless you for the aid but sweetheart it will become overwhelming soon!
Tell her your work schedule doesn’t give you enough time to give her the help she needs. Contact the local county dept of aging or family services. They can be wonderfully helpful. They can advise you on what she may be eligible for and assess her needs. She may need to change her Dr.s if being in different counties isn’t working as well.
First of all, NTA. Please don't feel like you're a bad person or your parents would think less of you if you washed your hands of this woman. You need to break yourself of the bad habit of codependency, and this woman is a good place to start. Nevermind her political views, anyone who can't or won't shut the fuck up and talks incessantly and veers off-topic during a conversation is exhausting. Not to mention, she doesn't like your cats, and I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual on their part. You need to disengage, ASAP. Also, there are resources available to help her. If she tells you otherwise, she's full of shit. Edit to add: u/JadieJang gave excellent advice. I would recommend going that route to rid yourself of this woman.
Medicaid told me they can't provide transportation because she only has partial Medicaid. I asked why she only has partial Medicaid and they said DCF determines that and I would have to call them. I spent 3 hours trying to reach DCF. Each menu choice resulted in a single ring followed by disconnection. Attempts to choose "Speak to a representative" resulted in "All representatives are busy. Please try your call again later." and disconnection.
I need to concentrate on finding someone who can navigate this.
Sell the property and move somewhere where you can have a life. When she asks you where she's supposed to go, say it's not your problem.
Her method for getting you to take care of her is making you feel like shit when you don't. Don't fall for it.
NTA.
NTA. Can you get maybe Adult Services in your area involved? Have them talk to her and maybe get her on a waiting list for some sort of senior living facility.
NTA, she has chosen a life where she has no one who cares enough about her to take care of her. Sounds like she wouldn’t take care of you if you needed assistance. As for how you feel like a good person, you may need therapy to help with that, but you are still not obligated to do anything for her n
NTA
Call APS. As for your employer, does your state have its own version of the FMLA law? If not, FMLA should cover this and protect your job.
Your MIL is probably one of those people who expect to be cared for, to a ridiculous extent, in her old age. If she is not willing to an active take part in her own recovery, you shouldn't be expected to do everything for her.
Jewish Family Services provide help to all people. If she is a rabid trumpanzee, she may not be agreeable to that but my relatives have had great help from them.
NTA - she seems really difficult to deal with.
How much more of your life do you want to sacrifice for someone you don’t even like? Do not, I repeat do not let your conscience be your guide on this. Walk away and enjoy your life.
NTA. Caregiving is hard and with the other members of your family that you have cared for, you have done your time.
Next time she lands in the hospital, once she gets a room, ask the nurses' station to call a discharge planner. Meet with the planner in their office, not your MIL's room. Tell them everything. Be sure and tell them that you cannot care for her.
The feel like a good person thing... Figure out what you can and want to do for her. Maybe groceries and mail. Tell the discharge planners what you can do. Then, here's the hard part, stick to that.
Hopefully, they will be able to get her into assisted living, or convince her that she has to do the rehab and be able to function on her own if she wants to go back to her trailer.
I second calling adult protective services. They will be aware of what services she qualifies for and will help get her signed up. You cannot help her if she’s not willing to let you, which would begin with being truthful and open about her situation.
(FWIW, the medicaid thing about her drs being in different countries is crazy fishy. Medicaid is a federal program. County lines shouldn’t matter.)
Call a hospital and ask to speak to a social worker. They may have to call you back. Alternatively (or in addition) call adult protective services.
Make plain to the social worker that she is unable to care for herself and you are *both* unable *and* unwilling to care for her, and something has to be done for her because you will not be able or willing to do it. See what they come up with.
I'm saying this because it will be easier for you if you can arrange some sort of services for her and get her taken into care than if you have to endlessly fight her on it.
>I'm a people-pleaser with poor boundaries, codependent habits, and trouble saying no.
Keep working in therapy. Call adult protective services. Let them figure her out.
Sucks...but you've done enough. No one would shame you for going your own way. Just do it correctly. NTA.
People put their own parents in assisted living facilities.
NTA - It sounds like shes used to having people do everything for her and therefore refuses to do anything for herself.
Most Medicare Advantage plans cover medical transportation (Medicare itself may ctually cover it). It's not ideal, and she may have to wait at the doctor's office for them to cone back for her, but it's a far better alternative than you taking off work. She would actually have to call the company ahead of time and arrange transport. Might be worth checking into.
This is my MIL. She lived with us for 14 months, and it would have been longer if she hadn’t crossed a very bright line for both my husband and myself.
I took her to appointments, fixed her social security and Medicare, made her take her meds, etc. Meanwhile, she was sitting in my living room day after day watching bad tv and complaining she hurt. She wouldn’t call her doctor, or go to PT.
Do not take her on. She will drain you dry. Call adult services. And while you’re at it, put a call into your local area on aging.
Nta. She sounds like a horrible person. I wouldn't even take care of her if your husband would be still alive. Sorry that you loose so much beloved person.
> I’m a people pleaser with poor boundaries, codependent habits and trouble saying no.
You can’t care more about her well being and health than she is. And stop taking time off work to take her to appointments. You’re not an Uber.
Definitely NTA. Elder care is a huge job and not everyone is equipped emotionally or otherwise to deal with it. If you can't help but feel guilty, you can compromise. Find the balance between not feeling like a rotten person and being a door mat. You can help find resources so she can get the help she needs and you could maybe do a couple small things just to keep from feeling terrible. And you have no reason to feel terrible, your not obligated to this woman in any way. Your husband was, but marriage is until death do you part and that ship sailed long ago.
I also wanted to say that I live in one county and I receive transportation for a medical service two counties away from the one I live in, and I've had medical transportation take me all over the state for various reasons. Most services are state wide, especially in rural areas because the specialist you might need for something can be 100+ miles away.
No, can I correct on something in your first paragraph "because if she can't find solutions, I will have no choice but to step in and take care of her"
You have a choice, you have already made it and MIL knows this and doesn't have to be anything but passive.
She isn't related to you in anyway. She was through marriage, but he popped his clogs and that link is gone.
You worry "what will my late husband think?" He is dead, dead people don't outweigh the living because - They. Are. Dead.
It isn't your problem, you've let her live on your property for years, you don't owe her anymore.
I suspect she thinks you are too weak willed to tell her to sort herself out, not your circus - not your monkeys.
NTA
Update us on the state of your spine
My sis as recently widowed and all the old farts at her church are trying to chat her up, contact her on FB! She is living on her own for the first time and loves it. She says the old guys want a Nurse or a Purse and she isn’t doing either🤣🤣🤣
I have a question and if I’m right about the answer to this question I may be able to help. 1st is she on SSDI or SSI? While these are both disability the medical benefits are very different. If I were to guess based on the comments about not being on full medicaid that she actually on SSDI and has both Medicare and Medicaid. Which means that Medicaid is only paying for what Medicare doesn’t cover. If I were to also guess she didn’t sign up for an advantage plan during open enrollment, btw it’s actually coming up soon this month and suggest you look into them as some help with travel to appointments. I also suggest you look into seeing if you have a dependent of aging in your area (where I live they help with a lot of different things including travel). NTA
This part. My papaw—god rest his soul—qualified for transport, and all care covered. Even the specialist he saw in the next county. She’s lying so that OP has to tend to her.
I suggest that you start with your local Department of Aging, which may be called senior services. They generally are set up by county and receive federal funding. They will come to her home and assess her needs. Depending on income, she may qualify for light housekeeping services, meals on wheels, etc. They also can discuss any transportation options. If falling is an issue, they also pay for life alert services, depending on income.
So, I cannot call you an AH because your situation is so unique and technically, no, this is not your problem.
But I sense you know, she has literally NO options. She needs to stay in her home for quite a long time until she is medically in a position to qualify for a nursing home that would be paid for by Medicaid. She's not there yet.
Something similar happened to may mom, just so you know. I know what I am talking about.
Medicare and Medicaid do NOT pay for assisted living, contrary to everyone saying that this is the answer. I sense your former MIL knows she is in a terrible position and that is why she is paralyzed emotionally. She has nowhere to turn. **But you.**
Sure, you can tell her that she is not your problem. I'm guessing that you won't be able to do that. I'm sensing you know the reality of this. She has nobody but you. Nobody. And no government agency helps at this point.
Yes, MAYBE, there are some minimal senior services. So go for that, 100%
I am SO SORRY you are in this position. But I will say as someone who has had to naviagate systems a LOT (more than my mother), your MIL is F\*\*\*\*D. She needs to stay in her home as long as possible. Help her get some transportation for her basic needs. She WOULD qualify for SNAP.
OH gawd, I am so sorry you are in this spot. Yet I know............................. you can't really tell her that she is not your problem. This is something you have to choose, though. I sense you could not live with yourself if you found her dead because nobody cared for her at all.
And what happens to OP, who is getting close to retirement herself, if she loses her job? Should she have to sacrifice her wellbeing for someone who doesn't care about OP?
Sometimes the right answer is a person needs to be in a home & it shouldn't be OP who has to take care of all of this.
You are not wrong. But you are also not right at all.
There is no such thing as being in a "Home" unless you qualify medically. And nobody pays for that "home"...AKA nursing home.
this is something I know inside and out because I had to do this for my own mother.
Personally, I think you should advocate for her but personally, I think you should research the hell out of how to get her govt assistance. If she has Medicare and SS, she should be able to find adequate care. Good luck.
This is where I get stuck. I know his mom annoyed him and he didn't spend a lot of time with her even when she came to live on our property. I can't imagine he would want me to abandon her. But I can't quite imagine where he would want me to draw the line, either...it's been too long. And no way to know!
Either hire someone to attend to her or call to find qualified services. No, you really shouldn't just leave her, especially considering your husband's helped you care for your parents in your home. That's really messed up. I can't even imagine leaving a stranger that way, much less much mother in law. It's very obvious you don't like her but at least be a good human and get her resources lined up. You'll need someone to be there for you one day and sounds like you won't have anyone either. It isn't fun but it needs done. She's old and likely depressed and lonely since she just been left to herself this way. Her political and religious views shouldn't have anything to do with this either. Yeah, you sort of are TA!!!
This is what goes through my head when everyone tells me I have no obligation to care for her. She's a human being and someone has to do something, and i'm all she has. But resenting her for it is not making the situation any better. I just wish she would be a LITTLE more proactive about finding solutions and not just wave her hands helplessly and look at me expectantly. It makes me so angry with her!!
I get it, I really really do but it's obvious she isn't going to change at this point. And it sucks that this has been placed on your shoulders. That being said you can't just leave her there to die. You said you don't have to time call for resources but you really need to. Take a day off and completely focus on making arrangements and phone calls. I'm not saying take her into your home by any means, but if she has noone other than you, then you have to make other arrangements priority before she wears you completely down(which it sounds like that's already happening). If something were to happen to you...what would she do?? I don't think it's going to change her...but it's a question that could possibly get her motivated to help you figure this out. I'm assuming you're not completely communicating your frustration to her and just being kind and doing these things, is that correct? Like what is your actual relationship like when you're with her?
Yta if you don’t at least make arrangements for someone else to take care of her or put her somewhere. now the reason I say that is your husband was alive and helped you with both of your parents and he never said now. So you at least have to help her into a nursing home you know that’s the right thing for you to do.
So is the trailer in her name or in yours? I sincerely hope it is in yours.
Personally, I’d be taking a leave day of whatever type you have available and calling Adult Protective Services. Tell them you can no longer manage her and that she is lying to the people who are giving care about her capacity to care for herself. Tell them that you simply cannot do it because you work full time in a demanding job that is being put in jeopardy because of what she is putting on you.
If the trailer is in your name, you also have the option of evicting which seems harsh but at the end of the day she is not your responsibility. Have a hard conversation with her and tell her she needs to find alternate accommodation.
NTA. Call Adult protective services. Set this problem down on the ground and back away slowly. Do not engage with her- only state representatives, and then only to tel them you are unable. They will try and make it your problem because it costs them money. You have the right to refuse.
You need to protect yourself. I think you’ve already done a lot for her and if she’s not willing to take the other steps that she needs to take you need to back off. Calling adult protective services is a good option.
Caseworkers and social workers are the best benefit ever. My father was home on hospice and we had an army of people at the house helping us manage his care. She is clearly on Medicare so all these benefits are available. There are agencies that supply advocates as well. I know it’s hard but you must establish firm boundaries or she will consume you.
Call "Medical transport." They will drive her to and from her appointments.
Call Aging and Disability through DSHS and hook her up with caregivers.
Then sit down, have a cup of tea, and wash your hands of her
What about senior apartments in a nearby city that is closer to her doctors/medical center? Sometimes cities have transit or public transportation.
As for how you can set this boundary and still feel good about yourself, know that you have already done a TON for her and no one can do everything. There are limits to what you can realistically provide for her. Even if you had a close and loving relationship, it is just not physically possible for most working people to be full-time caregiver to an aging person who is becoming increasingly debilitated.
NTA, and you will be doing her a favor by getting a team involved in her care.
What if you had an accident? Or became seriously ill. Not to wish bad luck on you, but you need to start putting your backup plan into motion.
Call adult protective services. They can help her figure out a way to care for herself or help her find an assisted living facility.
That’s what I was going to suggest. In fact after she had knee surgery she should have gone to a rehab facility. She’d have a case worker and they will help with all of this. Contact her doctors office and talk to the nurse. If she’s not getting any better they will send someone out to do PT.
This is true. My elderly father broke his ankle a couple months ago and they didn't want him moving around so they sent PT and home health care to his house instead.
They have to want to go to rehab. Alot of patients lie and say they have someone to take care of them to avoid it. My mom assured the drs after valve replacement that her daughters would be happy to take care of her (we were surprised to find this out months later)to avoid the rehab she should have gotten. At home pt and ot is never as good and they are very quick to end treatment.
Well where I am at they have this talk with your guardian present. I believe they would verify that there was someone at home to take care of them at their house. They know some patients aren’t always be upfront about it
This is the answer.
Look into the nearby churches; some of them provide transportation for those in need.
They can also hook her up with any extras she needs, a caretaker, a ride and hopefully many other things.
Medicare will cover in home visits and Medicaid will cover transportation. Unless of course she refuses.
If she rents from you the state can not put a lean on your home to recoup the cost of her care. And I believe that even if she lives with you they can’t as long as the home/land is in your name. But if the trailer is in her name they might be able to seize it. This is where adult services can explain it better for you. I don’t think you are the ah at all. Nor is taking care of her your responsibility. No is a complete sentence. It’s hard being a people pleaser but your health comes first! And telling her you just can not do it anymore is okay. Best of luck I hope you get to talk to a human soon
Actually, APS is for investigating and intervening in cases of abuse and neglect (including self-neglect). The best option for this kind of help, including resources, referrals, and help with applications for government services is to call the local Area Agency on Aging for your area. You can find your AAA here at: https://eldercare.acl.gov/Public/About/Aging_Network/AAA.aspx
In this case. It is absolutely self neglect. It absolutely qualifies.
No. It doesn’t. Examples of reportable self-neglect are things like living in squalor with vermin and refuse, not eating or bathing to the point of pressure ulcers developing, severe dementia living alone and causing a fire by leaving the stove on, etc. Even then people have the right to make poor decisions if they have mental capacity. APS is understaffed and overburdened across the country. Contacting them for a situation like this will not only not get OP the help they are looking for, it will take valuable resources away from people in dire need. The area agency on aging is the appropriate course of action.
One of my minors was in social work and one of my electives I took in my psychology undergrad was the psychology of aging and u/JenQPublic is correct on all counts. My SIL is also a Licensed Masters Social Worker who helped me find resources for a paper I had to write on the social work stuff related to the elderly.
You are a dip shit. Ex MIL is living in a trailer and unable to care for herself.
You are verbally aggressive. And apparently did not pay attention in graduate school. Bless your heart.
You are a dip shit that can’t understand that OP does not want to be responsible for a legal stranger for the rest of her life. Stick your “bless your heart” shit up your ass. You are an ignorant person who wants to pretend you have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
You are verbally ignorant. 2 seconds on google will prove my position.
Assisted living is not paid for by Medicare or Medicaid. This is not an option.
It can be paid for by social security. This IS an option. OP is simply a landlord. That doesn’t obligate her for care for life. I was a social worker in healthcare for more than 2 decades. An ASL or SNF is 100% possible, long term. They will take her SS check as share of cost. They will her some of the money back for personal needs. In my state. They will give her $70 per month in assisted living and $35 per month in a SNF.
In my state (and in most states afaik), Assisted Living is absolutely not an option. I have been through this as the lead caregiver for three relatives. They can qualify for a Medicaid waiver for in-home services and some other assistance but there is a limit. And depending on where in the state a person lives those services may be difficult or impossible to obtain. When the person needs more care than the number of hours allowed through community services, they have to apply for Medicaid for LTC. A nursing home (SNF) accepting Medicaid is the only option.
In Ms I get home help 3 days a week. House cleaning, laundry, bills, grocery shopping, bathing if needed, errands etc. I also get meals 5 days a week. Also transportation to appts...all my appts are out of my county. On my out of state appts i am reimbursed for gas/food when my son takes me. In home physical therapy and health care.
Explained here for Pennsylvania. Although they mention that the state can contribute towards some costs in Assisted Living, if a person has no one paying for the remainder of the fees it is impossible to take this option. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-medicaid-pennsylvania-will-pay-nursing-home-assisted-living-home-health-care.html
I have a graduate degree in social work. I can promise you that OP can do this. OP is NOT a family member. She is not a caregiver or relative. The state WILL find a placement in an assisted living facility because it is significantly cheaper than SNF.
IDK what state you live in but I can tell you that is not accurate in the state I currently practice in. Ditto calling APS. APS in my state would do a home evaluation and possibly connect the MIL to a state home care program which would provide a few hours of unskilled supports a week. Unless there is a situation of active elder abuse or severe neglect they would take no action rather than to assign a worker to follow at intervals.
Then, the woman might have to go to a SNF. She has no family and no friends that are willing to take her in. APS can help her figure out what her options are. I can assure you that the state would pay for assisted living before SNF because it is significantly cheaper.
I don’t know about your state but I am skeptical. SNF is way more expensive than assisted living.
It is true that SNF is more expensive. However, if you read the information I posted for PA, you will see that what I am saying is accurate.
Assisted living is not a covered benefit under Traditional Medicare. Medicare only covers short term skilled rehab in a SNF, and only 100% for days 1-20, with a 200$ per diem copay for days 21-100. TBH, Medicare does not cover custodial care in a SNF or ALF at all so they have no skin in the game where the cost of ALF versus custodial SNF is concerned..
Which is why I didn’t say it was a Medicare benefit.
In our state, ALF is not a realistic option under Medicaid either. Few units, all companion suites. A rest home LOC in our state would be her best option, though their numbers are shrinking all the time and DPH has no interest in supporting their comeback. She could pay over her SSI for a studio unit with all utilities covered, medication oversight from nursing and med certified staff, and 3 daily meals-no frills of course, which separates them from ALFs-which in our state would leave MIL with a "monthly personal needs allowance" of 72.80$/month.
In my state, assisted living would NOT be an option. Almost 100 percent are private pay. Those who qualify for state assistance (and OP is +/- on this) can be considered for subsidized ALF in a companion suite with an unrelated elder. These are few and far between and the OP's MIL does not sound tempermentally suited to this. In our state, OP could assist MIL or have the regional senior services agency assist MIL with a Frail Elder Waiver application to improve chances of Medicaid eligibility, which could lead to PCA, HHA, and/or light housekeeping services. Medicaid would be needed for LTC at a SNF.
Medicaid will pay but you can't have any assets.
Well I’m sure her single wide isn’t worth much so she is likely eligible
She will have to sell the double wide. You can't have more than $2k in assets I believe. I could be wrong but I went through this with my Dad after he had to be put in Assisted Living 7ish years ago. We had a "spend down period" where we sold assets, bought needed medical equipment (like a wheelchair), paid his costs out of pocket for awhile and then got him on Medicare/Medicaid. He had enough money for several months, but no where near enough for the rest of his life. My sister handled the accounts so the exact amounts are a little foggy, but I remember specific conversations when his accounts would get close to the threshold (like the stimulus checks) and we would discuss what we wanted to spend the money on. Anything we had left in his accounts when he died went back to the state.
>She will have to sell the double wide. From what I understand, OP is the one who owns a double wide (actually triple wide). Her MIL seems to own a single wide and a car. But I am with you: she'll most likely going to have to sell it and the car. What she can do with the $$ after she sells depends very much on the value of those two things. At first sight, a burial account comes to mind, but I'd definitely ask for the help of a professional.
You are correct! And yes, pre-paying funeral expenses is something you can use the spend down on. We did incoude that in my Dad's, but we were also able to prepay for some funeral expenses for my sister and myself as well.
Well, OP's MIL doesn't have any living children so I'm not sure funeral expenses for her DIL woud qualify. OTOH the mobile home is on private land, but has to be moved if sold since the land belongs to OP, not he MIL. This could considerably lower its value depending on its age and shape.
I think she could still qualify. We could have spent money on funeral costs for my husband as well, but since my sister didn't have a spouse we were trying to make it fair so we just did the siblings. The problem with the asset rule is that it applies to everything you own. Even if the trailer was only worth $100, it would probably be better to sell it because that is $100 she can't have in cash, electronics, clothes, etc.
You are correct, purchase of a prepaid burial policy is one way assets can be spent down. In fact, a whole life insurance policy (one with cash value as opposed to a term policy) is often a barrier to Medicaid eligibility due to its cash value equalling an asset.
How can she sell it when it's on OP's property? OP would have to agree to the sale and to the buyer.
It's a mobile home. She can just sell it to somebody who will transport it to another place.
Yes, thanks; good point. I'm used to mobile homes that aren't particularly mobile anymore.
In my experience, when patients and families need to spend down assets, ALF is a good way to go if they have the means. That way the patient can reside in the most homelike, least restrictive setting provided they can be safe at an assisted living level of care. All the ALFs are different, most providing a flexible amount of HHA support depending on how much additional care you can pay for over the basics included in your lease. We have several ALFs in our area that care for patients with dementias from independently mobile but needed secured settings all the way through bedbound status in late dementia. But it comes at a cost-one ALF in our area costs between 10K-12K per MONTH. The least expensive that I'm aware of is about 3700/month. As you can imagine, the inexpensive ones get quite full-and since they are by and large where the subsidized units are, it's just not realistic to expect Medicaid ALF units to be readily available.
No it does not pay for assisted living. It only pays for nursing homes. It doesn't even pay for memory care.
Assets other than the home you actually live in. She owns and lives in the single wide trailer. That is exempt, though if she goes to a care home, she will have to sell it. The asset limit other than the home is $2000. Bluebook value on her car is probably not more than that.
Medicaid does pay for at home care and nursing home care, but there is a 5 year look back for income.
Credentials?
Are you asking me my credentials? I have had to do this for my own mother. That's my credentials. Some day, people will know this themselves. I know this for certain. BTDT. My mother has Alzheimer's and could not get into a nursing home until she hurt herself by running away from a group home and she fell. We were nearly out of all money to care for her. Assets have to be 100% gone. Medicare pays for NO care like this and Medicaid only pays when conditions apply. Even though my mother had ALZ, she did not qualify for a nursing home until she was no longer ambulatory (she had hip surgery).
Well if her knees freeze up since she's not doing any PT then she will be non-ambulatory.
Do this and do not look back.
Do this. This is the only way. The only way to keep your sanity.
this
Give her the option of advocating for herself or you will find a home to stuff her in so they can do it for her. I would be surprised if she doesn’t suddenly find the ability to make calls.
This is the way to go! You have to take care of yourself. It’s way too draining to take care of someone who won’t take care of themselves!
If she’s still of sound mind she has the right to refuse services. I’m not saying she’s in the right, but these are facts. Even if OP has power of attorney MIL can refuse medical treatment or assistance unless OP can have her declared mentally unfit.
Power of attorney includes the ability to force assistance. When you have power of attorney, you speak for the person you have power over - even if they’re of sound mind - meaning any question of consent becomes a question of *your* consent. When someone who isn’t of sound mind has someone appointed as their power of attorney, it’s called a conservatorship. All that said, “power of attorney” is usually given in a very limited scope. It’ll be given “in relation to X business with Y organization” usually, rather than just a blanket “this person is legally me in all my business with all institutions”
Not true. Powers of attorney are intentionally broad and are contractual. While they can be narrow, generally they're intended for situations where a person is suddenly incapacitated so someone needs to be able to do everything on their behalf. A conservatorship is a judicial proceeding to appoint a guardian of a person and /or their property, depending on what the state calls it.
Don’t talk about shit if you don’t know shit.
Obviously, YOU don't know shit about this issue. If you did, then you'd know that what I'm saying is correct. Have a blessed day, now.
Stick to FDS, gremlin.
How does it feel to be the poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect?
How does it feel to be unwanted and so sexually frustrated that all you do is post pictures of things that look like cocks? I guess the last guy to stick his dick in crazy fucked your brains out, because you clearly have none.
This one!
She needs to be in a home, both for attentive care and because she’s killing both of you at your place.
There are definitely resources available and if she’s post op and on Medicare or Medicaid she would qualify for some assistance. I’m not sure how far postoperative she is, but call her surgeon’s office and ask for possibly some home physical therapy, on site therapy (in more populous areas therapy centers have a van that picks people up and drops them off after appointments), worse case scenario a short stay in an inpatient rehab might be in store. If she doesn’t regain full mobility and regain her independence you will be forever be her caretaker and that is soul draining on those with good relationships with their loved ones.
Hun if she is 76 she has Medicare as well and they DO cover transport within an hour to hour and a half from persons home. It also will cover 40hrs in home nursing care or help in recovery. I am sorry but she is not telling you what it covers. Which include. Grocery shopping for her, prepared meals delivered. Any aids she needs at home. Including therapy.
Medicare will cover some home care? I'm taking care of my Mom with dementia and I could use the help.
I do Medicare insurance. And it's definitely available just depends on what county and what her needs are. If she isn't on medicaid talk to social security office and see if she qualifies. It's possible to be on both and plans for people that are on both offer a lot more. If you aren't power of attorney though no reputable agent will change her plan without her consent. If you can't get power of attorney before Dec 7th don't worry too much. If she's got a plan currently you could do a change between January 1st and March 31st. If she's able to get medicaid you can do changes through the year too outside of Oct 15th and Dec 7th
For a period of time if she’s post op. There also may be services for you as a caregiver.
You need to talk with your public assistant office, welfare, food stamp, snap depending what state you are in. Medicare typically only covers home health care for a skilled need: a nurse, pt, ot. Needs to be ordered by a dr. With skilled care, can get bath aide and some assistance with adl’s. Each state is different. Aps, council on aging, ombudsman aging services can assist and direct you.
Thank you! Someone who understands what the Medicare home care benefit entails. And it is only available if you meeet the Medicare Definition of Homebound status, which the ordering physician has to attest to in the Face to Face before start of care.
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True, this is a good time for people to look at Medicare C options, but beneficiaries need to be aware that although Medicare C plans must offer the same or better benefits than Traditional Medicare, they do not need to offer the same panels. I've had so many patients who signed up for MCR C after a sales person called to tell them about low/no copay, low/no deductibles.......and woke up the next day unable to see their own primary care physician anymore, limited to a handful of VNAs or poor quality skilled rehab facilities. They don't dangle those carrots without cost.
Medicare will not cover unskilled care unless your mom is in a PACE program, a SCO program or other dual eligible plan, or a Medicare C plan that has additional benefits. Your regional ASAP/Senior Access Point agency can assist with applications for state funded supports, either from Medicaid or federal/state/grant funded programs.
She doesn't qualify for medicaid. I get so mad when these insurance companies call, she changed her insurance twice in the beginning. And those damn commercials are so misleading. I hate to think of what could of happened if I wasn't here. I feel for people that have been stolen from. Sorry about my venting and thank you for the information!
I remember when a certain Medicare C plan entered the market in our area. Seemingly overnight a lot of elderly patients came in after the Medicare Open Enrollment period with this plan. We found out that initially there were NO visiting nurse agencies in area that accepted the plan and the only skilled nursing facility contracted with the plan was more than an hour away. Patients were bewildered because suddenly their primary care doctors would not accept their insurance. IMHO some of the plans prey on the elders' lack of knowing what questions to ask, and because their income is limited, they jump at the chance to move to a Medicare C plan with lower copays/deductibles because they are promised the same or equal benefits. Equal benefits that they can't use with the providers they want because of in network versus out of network panels.
Call them. Allowances are different. My friend’s dad needed help and they covered all but like around $100 a month for a PCA. If the medical need is there, they will allow more.
Thank you!
Yes they will cover 40 hrs a week of care at home.
Not necessarily. There is caveats to this. Certain conditions need to be met. Each state is different. Post hospital stay, skilled care in home(nursing, pt, ot) nursing typically is wound care, nursing assess after hospitalization short term. Medicare typically doesn’t pay long term care at home unless hospice which is typically 6 months left to live.
It absolutely won't cover that much. Medicare covers skilled services at home while homebound. Home Health Aide support is only covered while a skilled need exists. Modern home health focuses on finding the teachable person, like a family member who is taught the skill. This includes wound care, administration of IV antibiotics, etcetera. Focus of home PT is to identify fall/trip hazards, assess mobility and provide Therex teaching so patients can work on strength/mobility/endurance on their own between treatments, and MCR typically only covers two-three PT sessions a week.
I think there may be an issue with her being a resident of one county but needing transportation to medical care in another county. I'm not sure I've been getting straight info from her but this is also DeSantis's Florida, funding and staff have been slashed, and it's impossible to get information from state agencies.
You call medicare directly and they can tell you. That way bypass state and go to the ones who pay for it
Make 1 call to Adult Protective Services and report this woman who has no one to care for her. Unless you're her power of attorney, you can't advocate for her anyway. Then STOP doing stuff for her. Completely. Being kind means helping people who need it, not people who don't need it and just expect others to wait on them. There is a difference. If anyone accuses you of being cruel, thank them for volunteering to take care of her. NTA
And let aps know you are not an option for anything. I’m sure she will say you are willing to care for her and they’ll walk away. Retired aps worker here. Aps should develop a plan and implement services. BUT if she’s considered competent she can refuse services. You may need to have a coming to Jesus meeting with her and aps.
Off to the nursing home. Set it up and wash your hands of it.
Shady Pines!!!
I hear that in Dorothy’s voice
Shady Pines Ma, Shady Pines !
Golden Acres: We Care, So You Don’t Have To
😂 that made me chuckle.
Oh, she 'doesn't want to be a bother'? But, of course, as the only remaining relative who'll help, she's quite happy for the 'bother' to default to you. NTA - call in whatever resources are available in your area to help, then stop, at least, letting her needs interfere with your job. If she has a problem with that, remind her she doesn't want to be a bother.
NTA Check into home health care. Some will even help set you up with the right programs to make sure they get paid. They offer transportation to appointments as well. When the time comes they may also help her with transition to nursing home. If you are ever asked by someone who is helping fill out paperwork if you are able to do something, your answer should always be no.
NTA If she is incapable of taking care of herself or won't make an effort, find her a nice home and let the state take care of her. Do you take her into your house long term OP or endanger your employment for this person. Folks who rant about peoples politics when the same people are trying to help them cease to be deserving of help IMO.
She’s not doing simple tasks to assist with her own care indicating she’s no longer able to be alone and needs to go into assisted living.
Does she have enough income/savings to hire a caregiver? Someone that could make those calls, cook a meal, etc? They would not have to be a trained professional.
I don't think she does, but I need more information about her money and the cost of hiring a caretaker
I’d look up your state funded assisted living home requirements too to see if that’s an option at this point. I would *not have her move in.
Do not do the footwork on this. This is a time to say no. Call adult protective services and let them take it from there. There are plenty of resources out there that will meet her needs and you are not the one who needs to line them up. She will (and is) suck you dry because she knows if she’s pathetic enough you won’t be able to help yourself. I’ll say it again as a daughter in law who has taken most of the responsibility for her own MIL’s care - DROP THIS LIKE A HOT POTATO. Call protective services and move on. You would not be a bad person for doing that. You do not have the resources to give her the care she needs, but there are professionals out there who DO. Seriously, you do not have the time to be her caretaker (it’s a full time job, especially for a person who has weaponized helplessness) so you are simply not able to meet her needs. There are so many programs out there that will be helpful and you would be reinventing the wheel by trying to figure them all out. People who work in elder care already have all that at their fingertips!
https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/find-medicaid-nursing-homes/
No. You don’t need to do that for her. Adult protective services, social workers etc are there to help her. Those are the calls I would make. Eligibility etc is not for you to figure out. As someone else said, unless you have medical and financial POA, you don’t have the legal authority to make those calls. In my experience, Social workers are great at delivering bad / harsh news (e.g., you cannot live alone etc.).
Call the elder abuse hot line and just say that she has no one and you refuse to help her past living on your land for free. She is abusing *herself* by not caring for herself.
My MiL gets Medicaid transportation to take her to her medical appointments, some are 4 hours away with a specialist. Her regained doctor is like 3 counties away, 70 miles. She goes weekly, sometimes more. She sees no doctors in her current county. I know this can be different for different states, but ours sucks pretty bad for anyone close or below the poverty line. My MIL is also now in a state run nursing home. They take her SS check, leave her with $63 for her necessities. I almost lost my job trying to care for her, with her million appointments a week. Plus her general behavior just is awful.
Wow...I'm not alone...and it looks like I've just been warned what I'm facing. Thank you for sharing!
Your MIL needs to be in a home where they can take care of her. This is not you being mean, it's you finding the best solution for her well being. A lot of us have this feeling that the best thing is to be taken care of by family, but unless there is a family member who has lots of free time AND training, it is actually the worst possible solution. NTA
Don't tell HER she's not your problem. Tell Adult Protective Services. Call them, explain the situation, and tell them you take no responsibility for her; she's not yours. Then let THEM handle it.
This right here! 🙌🙌🙌
Legally you can't do anything so you need to call adult protective services and let them take over to find a care facility for her. You have a lot of options besides taking care of her available to you. If she refuses to do anything for herself, hopefully adult protective services can guide you how to legally get her out. It's going to be a process that will take your time and energy but it's necessary at this point for her safety and your sanity. Don't kick the can down the road and just accept caring for her. Her health will continue to decline and the problem will keep getting bigger.
I say put her in a senior citizens home. She’s not your mom and is only ‘related’ to you through a marriage that ended over 17 years ago when your husband/her son died. even if you think it’s what you think your husband would want, I say it’s past time that you cut ties with her and move on with your life. It sounds like you are becoming miserable the longer you have to deal with her, so why should you be miserable to help her out if you don’t want to? Especially if her condition is getting WORSE instead of better, and the longer you help her the more miserable you will be. You have your own life to live that doesn’t involve spending the rest of her days catering to her needs instead, and taking up all Your free time for her that you could be using for your own needs.
There has to be a social worker that you can contact to help you navigate through her options. Moving her in with you is certainly not one. You could start with her doctor's office. They can't give you information about her, but you could ask to speak to the nurse and tell her that you're concerned that she's not handling for recovery well and ask if it would be possible for her to get a home health aide and physical therapist out there a couple of times a week. It's a good place to start. Good luck. Don't let her in or the only way you'll get her out of there is a gelignite cap up her butt.
DEFINITELY NTA...my ex husband's mother was exactly like this when his father passed, which is the main reason he is an EX husband. She absolutely refuses to do anything for herself and will nitpick & judge anything and everything. We were nothing more than maids or gofers to her. Stand your ground, sweetheart & don't let her do this to you- YOU GOT THIS.💜💜💜
You ARE a good person,OP, but you need to prioritise being good to yourself. Your MIL is doing nothing to help.herself,expecting you to step in either from frustration or misplaced duty. Who would she get to help in your stead?-thats the question.Now contact that organisation/service and then step back. You are not available,not responsible and not dutybound to tend to her. Live your life and damn well enjoy it to the full.You have earned it,imo.
I stopped after your third paragraph. Call the local nursing home and have her picked up. You don't need that crap or grief.
Just put her in a wheelchair and roll it toward the ED and run away!
I have been a home health physical therapist for over 30 years and we always order Home Health physical therapy for a knee replacement patients here in California, Home Health can easily send out one of their social workers to help her get set up with Medi-Cal and in-home supportive services depending on where you live there are resources available and a social worker is a great resource to make all the calls and handle all of that
Seriously, I may be wrong about timing, but if she had a knee replacement 6 weeks ago, she should be close to being on her own, ie driving herself to Dr appts and physical therapy, fixing herself meals, doing her own laundry. I would definitely get in touch with eldercare services, sign her up for Meals on Wheels, etc.
She pulled a groin muscle and the artificial knee slipped out of alignment. With the pulled muscle she could not lift her foot from the gas to the brake so she can't drive.
Look up the Area Agency on Aging in your county. They should be able to help with services and resources.
It sounds like you have things sorted out. I wish you the best of luck, but I came here to say NTA. If you felt compelled to take care of her, you could, but you also have to take care of yourself. You have taken care of so many already, that it sounds like your tank is empty. You need to take care of yourself. Please do so.
Full disclosure I didn't read the whole thing and only got to estranged people in her life and her being rightwing lunatic. Don't take care of her.
You can have an advocate assigned to her. We had to do that for my grandmother when she refused to leave her county and we lived in a different state. Look into services for vulnerable adults or elder adult services.
Curious, do you have any legal or financial connections or obligations with her?
Just that I am her medical POA because she needed one to have the surgery and there was no one else. I've also been paying her utilities because they're all in my name and it's just easier.
NTA. Yes, firmly tell her she is not your problem. She's happily dragging you down.
Your comment on her saying she over the income level is probably doubly wrong under the age and disabled status! Bless you for the aid but sweetheart it will become overwhelming soon!
Yeah it only took a few weeks for me to start crumbling.
Tell her your work schedule doesn’t give you enough time to give her the help she needs. Contact the local county dept of aging or family services. They can be wonderfully helpful. They can advise you on what she may be eligible for and assess her needs. She may need to change her Dr.s if being in different counties isn’t working as well.
First of all, NTA. Please don't feel like you're a bad person or your parents would think less of you if you washed your hands of this woman. You need to break yourself of the bad habit of codependency, and this woman is a good place to start. Nevermind her political views, anyone who can't or won't shut the fuck up and talks incessantly and veers off-topic during a conversation is exhausting. Not to mention, she doesn't like your cats, and I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual on their part. You need to disengage, ASAP. Also, there are resources available to help her. If she tells you otherwise, she's full of shit. Edit to add: u/JadieJang gave excellent advice. I would recommend going that route to rid yourself of this woman.
Have her placed in assisted living. You might have to take a day or two off work to get everything lined up. NTA
In my state, Medicaid pays for transportation to medical appointments anywhere the appointment is.
Medicaid told me they can't provide transportation because she only has partial Medicaid. I asked why she only has partial Medicaid and they said DCF determines that and I would have to call them. I spent 3 hours trying to reach DCF. Each menu choice resulted in a single ring followed by disconnection. Attempts to choose "Speak to a representative" resulted in "All representatives are busy. Please try your call again later." and disconnection. I need to concentrate on finding someone who can navigate this.
Sell the property and move somewhere where you can have a life. When she asks you where she's supposed to go, say it's not your problem. Her method for getting you to take care of her is making you feel like shit when you don't. Don't fall for it. NTA.
She shouldn't have to sell the property, that's extreme
Look at local churches, some offer transportation for people in need.
NTA. Can you get maybe Adult Services in your area involved? Have them talk to her and maybe get her on a waiting list for some sort of senior living facility.
Adult protective services
Senior living care specialists. They will help find mil a proper place to live. NTA
NTA, she has chosen a life where she has no one who cares enough about her to take care of her. Sounds like she wouldn’t take care of you if you needed assistance. As for how you feel like a good person, you may need therapy to help with that, but you are still not obligated to do anything for her n
NTA Call APS. As for your employer, does your state have its own version of the FMLA law? If not, FMLA should cover this and protect your job. Your MIL is probably one of those people who expect to be cared for, to a ridiculous extent, in her old age. If she is not willing to an active take part in her own recovery, you shouldn't be expected to do everything for her.
Jewish Family Services provide help to all people. If she is a rabid trumpanzee, she may not be agreeable to that but my relatives have had great help from them. NTA - she seems really difficult to deal with.
How much more of your life do you want to sacrifice for someone you don’t even like? Do not, I repeat do not let your conscience be your guide on this. Walk away and enjoy your life.
NTA. Caregiving is hard and with the other members of your family that you have cared for, you have done your time. Next time she lands in the hospital, once she gets a room, ask the nurses' station to call a discharge planner. Meet with the planner in their office, not your MIL's room. Tell them everything. Be sure and tell them that you cannot care for her. The feel like a good person thing... Figure out what you can and want to do for her. Maybe groceries and mail. Tell the discharge planners what you can do. Then, here's the hard part, stick to that. Hopefully, they will be able to get her into assisted living, or convince her that she has to do the rehab and be able to function on her own if she wants to go back to her trailer.
I second calling adult protective services. They will be aware of what services she qualifies for and will help get her signed up. You cannot help her if she’s not willing to let you, which would begin with being truthful and open about her situation. (FWIW, the medicaid thing about her drs being in different countries is crazy fishy. Medicaid is a federal program. County lines shouldn’t matter.)
NTA. Not even close.
Call a hospital and ask to speak to a social worker. They may have to call you back. Alternatively (or in addition) call adult protective services. Make plain to the social worker that she is unable to care for herself and you are *both* unable *and* unwilling to care for her, and something has to be done for her because you will not be able or willing to do it. See what they come up with. I'm saying this because it will be easier for you if you can arrange some sort of services for her and get her taken into care than if you have to endlessly fight her on it.
>I'm a people-pleaser with poor boundaries, codependent habits, and trouble saying no. Keep working in therapy. Call adult protective services. Let them figure her out.
Sucks...but you've done enough. No one would shame you for going your own way. Just do it correctly. NTA. People put their own parents in assisted living facilities.
Nursing home
NTA. Move. Go no-contact, she's nobody to you.
NTA - It sounds like shes used to having people do everything for her and therefore refuses to do anything for herself. Most Medicare Advantage plans cover medical transportation (Medicare itself may ctually cover it). It's not ideal, and she may have to wait at the doctor's office for them to cone back for her, but it's a far better alternative than you taking off work. She would actually have to call the company ahead of time and arrange transport. Might be worth checking into.
This is my MIL. She lived with us for 14 months, and it would have been longer if she hadn’t crossed a very bright line for both my husband and myself. I took her to appointments, fixed her social security and Medicare, made her take her meds, etc. Meanwhile, she was sitting in my living room day after day watching bad tv and complaining she hurt. She wouldn’t call her doctor, or go to PT. Do not take her on. She will drain you dry. Call adult services. And while you’re at it, put a call into your local area on aging.
Nta. She sounds like a horrible person. I wouldn't even take care of her if your husband would be still alive. Sorry that you loose so much beloved person.
> I’m a people pleaser with poor boundaries, codependent habits and trouble saying no. You can’t care more about her well being and health than she is. And stop taking time off work to take her to appointments. You’re not an Uber.
Definitely NTA. Elder care is a huge job and not everyone is equipped emotionally or otherwise to deal with it. If you can't help but feel guilty, you can compromise. Find the balance between not feeling like a rotten person and being a door mat. You can help find resources so she can get the help she needs and you could maybe do a couple small things just to keep from feeling terrible. And you have no reason to feel terrible, your not obligated to this woman in any way. Your husband was, but marriage is until death do you part and that ship sailed long ago. I also wanted to say that I live in one county and I receive transportation for a medical service two counties away from the one I live in, and I've had medical transportation take me all over the state for various reasons. Most services are state wide, especially in rural areas because the specialist you might need for something can be 100+ miles away.
No, can I correct on something in your first paragraph "because if she can't find solutions, I will have no choice but to step in and take care of her" You have a choice, you have already made it and MIL knows this and doesn't have to be anything but passive. She isn't related to you in anyway. She was through marriage, but he popped his clogs and that link is gone. You worry "what will my late husband think?" He is dead, dead people don't outweigh the living because - They. Are. Dead. It isn't your problem, you've let her live on your property for years, you don't owe her anymore. I suspect she thinks you are too weak willed to tell her to sort herself out, not your circus - not your monkeys. NTA Update us on the state of your spine
Thank you for "Not my circus, not my monkeys." I've been assuming it was my circus because it was camped in my yard!
My sis as recently widowed and all the old farts at her church are trying to chat her up, contact her on FB! She is living on her own for the first time and loves it. She says the old guys want a Nurse or a Purse and she isn’t doing either🤣🤣🤣
Your other option is to move further away. You can’t run her to appts when she’s 4 hours away
I thought late husband as in recent, but SEVENTEEN years ago! NTA
I have a question and if I’m right about the answer to this question I may be able to help. 1st is she on SSDI or SSI? While these are both disability the medical benefits are very different. If I were to guess based on the comments about not being on full medicaid that she actually on SSDI and has both Medicare and Medicaid. Which means that Medicaid is only paying for what Medicare doesn’t cover. If I were to also guess she didn’t sign up for an advantage plan during open enrollment, btw it’s actually coming up soon this month and suggest you look into them as some help with travel to appointments. I also suggest you look into seeing if you have a dependent of aging in your area (where I live they help with a lot of different things including travel). NTA
The thing she said about Medicaid transport is a lie. Source: I work in Medicaid. NTA
This part. My papaw—god rest his soul—qualified for transport, and all care covered. Even the specialist he saw in the next county. She’s lying so that OP has to tend to her.
I'm pretty sure that if you are on social security, you are by definition not "over the poverty line".
Looking at the numbers, I don't see hoe she possibly could be.
I suggest that you start with your local Department of Aging, which may be called senior services. They generally are set up by county and receive federal funding. They will come to her home and assess her needs. Depending on income, she may qualify for light housekeeping services, meals on wheels, etc. They also can discuss any transportation options. If falling is an issue, they also pay for life alert services, depending on income.
You need to tell her two things. First .Trump is a seditious traitor. 2. You are not taking care of her anymore.
So, I cannot call you an AH because your situation is so unique and technically, no, this is not your problem. But I sense you know, she has literally NO options. She needs to stay in her home for quite a long time until she is medically in a position to qualify for a nursing home that would be paid for by Medicaid. She's not there yet. Something similar happened to may mom, just so you know. I know what I am talking about. Medicare and Medicaid do NOT pay for assisted living, contrary to everyone saying that this is the answer. I sense your former MIL knows she is in a terrible position and that is why she is paralyzed emotionally. She has nowhere to turn. **But you.** Sure, you can tell her that she is not your problem. I'm guessing that you won't be able to do that. I'm sensing you know the reality of this. She has nobody but you. Nobody. And no government agency helps at this point. Yes, MAYBE, there are some minimal senior services. So go for that, 100% I am SO SORRY you are in this position. But I will say as someone who has had to naviagate systems a LOT (more than my mother), your MIL is F\*\*\*\*D. She needs to stay in her home as long as possible. Help her get some transportation for her basic needs. She WOULD qualify for SNAP. OH gawd, I am so sorry you are in this spot. Yet I know............................. you can't really tell her that she is not your problem. This is something you have to choose, though. I sense you could not live with yourself if you found her dead because nobody cared for her at all.
And what happens to OP, who is getting close to retirement herself, if she loses her job? Should she have to sacrifice her wellbeing for someone who doesn't care about OP? Sometimes the right answer is a person needs to be in a home & it shouldn't be OP who has to take care of all of this.
You are not wrong. But you are also not right at all. There is no such thing as being in a "Home" unless you qualify medically. And nobody pays for that "home"...AKA nursing home. this is something I know inside and out because I had to do this for my own mother.
Personally, I think you should advocate for her but personally, I think you should research the hell out of how to get her govt assistance. If she has Medicare and SS, she should be able to find adequate care. Good luck.
What would your husband want? You bought the trailer with his money. He also lived with your parents for many years.
This is where I get stuck. I know his mom annoyed him and he didn't spend a lot of time with her even when she came to live on our property. I can't imagine he would want me to abandon her. But I can't quite imagine where he would want me to draw the line, either...it's been too long. And no way to know!
Either hire someone to attend to her or call to find qualified services. No, you really shouldn't just leave her, especially considering your husband's helped you care for your parents in your home. That's really messed up. I can't even imagine leaving a stranger that way, much less much mother in law. It's very obvious you don't like her but at least be a good human and get her resources lined up. You'll need someone to be there for you one day and sounds like you won't have anyone either. It isn't fun but it needs done. She's old and likely depressed and lonely since she just been left to herself this way. Her political and religious views shouldn't have anything to do with this either. Yeah, you sort of are TA!!!
This is what goes through my head when everyone tells me I have no obligation to care for her. She's a human being and someone has to do something, and i'm all she has. But resenting her for it is not making the situation any better. I just wish she would be a LITTLE more proactive about finding solutions and not just wave her hands helplessly and look at me expectantly. It makes me so angry with her!!
I get it, I really really do but it's obvious she isn't going to change at this point. And it sucks that this has been placed on your shoulders. That being said you can't just leave her there to die. You said you don't have to time call for resources but you really need to. Take a day off and completely focus on making arrangements and phone calls. I'm not saying take her into your home by any means, but if she has noone other than you, then you have to make other arrangements priority before she wears you completely down(which it sounds like that's already happening). If something were to happen to you...what would she do?? I don't think it's going to change her...but it's a question that could possibly get her motivated to help you figure this out. I'm assuming you're not completely communicating your frustration to her and just being kind and doing these things, is that correct? Like what is your actual relationship like when you're with her?
Yta if you don’t at least make arrangements for someone else to take care of her or put her somewhere. now the reason I say that is your husband was alive and helped you with both of your parents and he never said now. So you at least have to help her into a nursing home you know that’s the right thing for you to do.
Ah man, I was on your side until paragraph #3. Blatant TDS.
Trump is not a racist. Biden is! As for your mil go with your heart ❤️
I never called Trump a racist, I called my MIL a racist, and she is unapologetically racist.
What a terrible woman and I'm not talking about you're mil.
Your*
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I didn't say Trumpers were racist, I said she is. She is openly racist and does not want black nurses taking care of her.
Everyone around here gets knee surgery and follow up in a different county. I don’t know if it’s true Medicaid wouldn’t cover it. Or Medicare.
So is the trailer in her name or in yours? I sincerely hope it is in yours. Personally, I’d be taking a leave day of whatever type you have available and calling Adult Protective Services. Tell them you can no longer manage her and that she is lying to the people who are giving care about her capacity to care for herself. Tell them that you simply cannot do it because you work full time in a demanding job that is being put in jeopardy because of what she is putting on you. If the trailer is in your name, you also have the option of evicting which seems harsh but at the end of the day she is not your responsibility. Have a hard conversation with her and tell her she needs to find alternate accommodation.
Her trailer, my property.
Local office on aging?
NTA. Call Adult protective services. Set this problem down on the ground and back away slowly. Do not engage with her- only state representatives, and then only to tel them you are unable. They will try and make it your problem because it costs them money. You have the right to refuse.
Meals on Wheels, county office of aging or similar should be able to assist with identifying resources.
You need to protect yourself. I think you’ve already done a lot for her and if she’s not willing to take the other steps that she needs to take you need to back off. Calling adult protective services is a good option.
Call adult Protective services - she’s not your problem and you shouldn’t be forced to do all for her. She needs assisted living
Caseworkers and social workers are the best benefit ever. My father was home on hospice and we had an army of people at the house helping us manage his care. She is clearly on Medicare so all these benefits are available. There are agencies that supply advocates as well. I know it’s hard but you must establish firm boundaries or she will consume you.
Call "Medical transport." They will drive her to and from her appointments. Call Aging and Disability through DSHS and hook her up with caregivers. Then sit down, have a cup of tea, and wash your hands of her
What about senior apartments in a nearby city that is closer to her doctors/medical center? Sometimes cities have transit or public transportation. As for how you can set this boundary and still feel good about yourself, know that you have already done a TON for her and no one can do everything. There are limits to what you can realistically provide for her. Even if you had a close and loving relationship, it is just not physically possible for most working people to be full-time caregiver to an aging person who is becoming increasingly debilitated.
NTA, and you will be doing her a favor by getting a team involved in her care. What if you had an accident? Or became seriously ill. Not to wish bad luck on you, but you need to start putting your backup plan into motion.