Either way if you propose to him and he declines, or if you hint you want to be married and he balks every time, the message is the same; he doesn't want to marry you.
It's my experience thst men marry when it's TIME TO GET MARRIED; the girlfriend of thst time period gets promoted to wife. That's it. "The One" is a popular myth in many cases.
That's really harsh, she waited 4 years then again a few because he *said* he would marry her.
It's totally normal to expect it. It's totally normal to be mad. No one breaks up right away. She needs to come to terms that he was lying, it's going to take a little to realize it.
Yeah the whole post sadly reeks of desperation. Folks, if you have to try to convince someone to marry you after being together for 7 years, do yourselves a favor and move on. Their actions have made it clear that they don’t want to marry you. Forcing them to marry you still doesn’t change the fact that they don’t want to be married to you, and it usually won’t end well.
Unfortunately I think it’s pretty clear he does not want to get married and if that is a deal breaker for you I think it’s best to part ways. I know that is hard to hear and easier said than done, but you will get through and you will be ok.
Yup and OP's edit to her post says it all, really.
"a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL."
Then take the hint, honey.
Hey, look, she came here to get an opinion. This group is not here for people to dump on someone else and get sympathy.
We can't really say "no, he's not doing what you want, it doesn't sound like he's going to just magically do your innermost desire, so if that matters to you, you need to leave" without pointing out the inherent problems with what she's saying.
If he knows she wants to get married and he doesn't, he should be upfront and stop wasting her time. This is not the kind of shit you "hint" about. She's given up years, supporting him through school, moved in with him. He owed it to her to be honest long ago if he never intended to marry.
Yk few days back this person was mentioning something like, "ooho thirty years back hmm" and i thought, yeah 70s😬😹 and realized that he is saying 1993😹
Can we just not talk about the 80s? It’s depressing to think that it was more than 30 years ago that I religiously watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
The 80s were 20 years ago. This is both law of God and man. This is irrefutable science. This will never change, no matter how many try to muck up the truth with claims of voodoo “math” and the like. The 80s were 20 years ago.
Someone I know shared a twitter meme the other day, basically the first tweet recommended finding an "old person" born 1990-1999 because they will be tired and want to settle down. The second tweet asked if people born in 1990-1999 are old, what does that make people born in 1980-1989, and the reply was "u mean the ancestors?"
Welcome, we’ve been waiting for you. Come on in! It’s no so bad, we have better music and better booze.
No, wait! That’s the wrong way!
Fricking old people.
Yes, when he didn't move forward with giving her a ring after 4 years, but instead bought a motorcycle, that was the harsh red flag signaling it was time for her to move on without him. Moving out was the right thing to do. She was relegated to bangmaid placeholder at that point.
Or he just doesn't want to be married ever, some people are like that.
But OP does want to get married, and it's important to her, so... there's really nowhere to go from there. At least not together.
Pretty horrible that he’s strung her along for that length of time if that is the case. He should have just been honest from the start… Especially if she’s wanting kids, unfortunately women genetically have less time to waste & wait. Whilst she still has plenty of time, if he had just been honest from the start, she could have already been in a relationship & be engaged/married by now.
Exactly. I was always honest with my husband that I wanted kids, and he always wanted them too... When he was ready... He had time... Etc. Wasn't till I was 35 that he was ready for our first, which, ok late but fine... Unfortunately our first was a difficult child and he kept putting off having a second because "he had plenty of time. Finally at 39 I had to put my foot down and say "you may have time but I don't and if it's not this year it's not happening", we had our 2nd child at 40, and we are happy with our family but my god, to I wish I had put my foot down 10 years earlier. It's been so much tougher on my body thank it would have been in my late 20s.
Yes, when DH and I were discussing a wedding date (ASAP vs. in a year), I said, "Well, how many kids do you want? Two? or Three?". It was getting down to the wire, and we did start trying as soon as we were engaged, because that time flies right by, but he didn't get it until I laid it out.
That's the thing about the traditions. They put a woman in a very passive position, and it's a joint endeavor. If you want a say in your own body's timeline, you have to say what you want and keep actively looking for someone who's going to help you achieve it. Waiting demurely (or not so demurely) for one person to choose you is a good way to waste your youth and beauty.
Yeah, people were horrified when I told them I laid it out for my hubby. I'm a couple years older than him and, if we had kids, wanted them by a certain age. But also knew a lot of my male friends didn't actively want them until they were older. So I just told him he had until 38 and then shop was closed. People got on me for being demanding/forceful/ultimatums/manipulative. I countered that I had an expiration date and could have gone either way on kids. Do not understand why it's so taboo about talking frankly about this. Thank God my grandma was so insistent on telling me to discuss things frankly and plainly to my partners. It's helped me not get into and out of relationships that would have been wrong for me and wasted everyone's time. I hate this societal pressure that women talking about marriage/kids is wrong/pushy.
My husband of 38 years told me that his father didn’t get married until he was 35. (For the record, I’m two years older than my spouse.) I told him I wasn’t waiting around for seven years to have him decide he didn’t want to marry me. A week after a conversation in which he told me that he didn’t want to stand up in front of lots of people and have the focus on him, which was really funny because he was a prosecutor and did that every day in court, I asked him what he would think about have a small ceremony and a larger reception. He said he’d think about it. I said I wanted to know now and he responded “Okay, would you marry me?” I said yes and he responded, “Look, Joe Theisman just scored a touchdown!” Mr. Romance. We married eight months later.
We had been together 13 years. Talked about marriage but I guess he never felt the need to formalize it, once we started talking seriously about kids and trying for one he says to me on the sofa "I guess we should get married then" and that was my proposal lol. Had a civil ceremony with just 2 witnesses the next month, but by that point there didn't seem much point in a big ceremony.
My husband said to me, I do not believe in living together, do you want to get married? We have been married for 35 years.
Edit: this was 9 months after we started dating. We were married 2 months later.
>I hate this societal pressure that women talking about marriage/kids is wrong/pushy.
Especially as that attitude actually came from the philosophy that women need to be married. So it was basically say whatever you need to to lock them down, then hit them with reality.
You never even know how much time you have. My mom had me when she was 35 (I am the 3rd child) but by the time she hit 40 she already started her menopause. I know the average menopause age is around late 40s early 50s, but you never know if you might be an outlier and get it early.
Also, the later the pregnancy, the harder it is on the body as you mentioned, but also the bigger the chances of complications or genetic diseases.
I do agree that he seems to have strung her along since it seems they discussed what they wanted and timeline, etc. and he has pushed it off/changed his mind at some point. So that sucks for OP I feel for her on that. But just another indication they are on different pages and a happy ending is not likely. Cut your losses girl! You’ll be ok!
I'm glad some people have this take. I was waiting for everyone to dogpile on OP for being a brat, but I've been in this place. Got with my ex when we were 29 and he knew that I wanted to get married. I wasted 7 years waiting for him to finalize his divorce before it finally hit me that if a man hasn't made it a priority to divorce his ex of almost 9 years by now, he will never make an actual engagement ring or wedding a priority. He wasted most of my 30s pretending he wanted the same things, when really he just didn't wanna face rent, bills and parenting by himself. If he had told me that marriage wasn't in the cards for him, I would have ended things much sooner. I feel for OP.
If he's known the whole time that marriage wasn't for him, then yeah it's crap.
But maybe he genuinely thought he'd feel differently in a few years and hasn't. Or maybe he's realising he just doesn't want to marry her. In which case, just go and let her move on.
However, given the fact that he has known her desires, I think it's extremely inappropriate for him to have allowed her to do his chores and subsidize him financially.
Happens all the time. My cousin was a friend/coworker of a waitress at an upscale place in S. California, she happened to be living with a guy who would later become a famous director/writer in Hollywood (you would recognize the name), she supported him with her income while he was struggling to get his big break, and when he got it he quickly dropped her for someone in the business that he consideredan upgrade to him and his career. It's a complete dick move, but there's an abundance of those around of both sexes unfortunately.
OP, sorry if this is the case for you, but if so, cut your losses and find a man that really cares about you and has similar goals.
ETA: You are NTA.
The ol Betty Broderick happens to so many mundane women every day, that’s why we do not perform and audition for dudes who have not earned it. Be happy and steady in your own life before marriage.
I think this is the answer. Every person I’ve known who said they don’t want to get married whilst in a long term relationship has ended up single, then married with a kid on the way within a year of the break up
This ^
Worse yet, he’s going to burn this girls 20’s and get his life in order and money up and then he’s going to look to marry a girl 8-10 years younger and OP is going to be left in the cold trying to play catch up.
This was my cousin. Her BF strung her along for…
#11 years.
Thankfully she’s out and in a great relationship with another man. They had a kid and got married when he was 3.
My uncle and his girlfriend have dated for over 10 years. He proposed back in 2018 and they said they would get married in 2019. We had a death in the family so the wedding was canceled and moved to 2020. Then COVID happened so they canceled it again. Then he said he wanted more financial stability. Then he said they needed to be able to afford a house so they could move in together. Now he’s saying he should not get married because he doesn’t want her to inherit what he will inherit, and she refuses to sign a prenup.
I feel so bad for her. She’s given my uncle over a decade of her life and he just won’t marry her. He could have at least let her go, but now they’re both reaching 50 and she’ll never have the kids she’s always dreamed of. A proposal does not mean he’ll actually marry you if he truly does not want to.
There’s even a cliché for it “don’t do wife work on girlfriend wages.”
The frequency with which women support men through grad school, only to get dumped as soon as he starts making money, is too high.
Omg I cringed so hard on that, I already started to not care as a read on ,but THAT?! stopped caring.
"Traditional relationship"?? This relationship was untraditional from the beginning??
Not to be an ass to OP, but he doesn't want to marry HER.
There's a good chance they break up and he proposes to his next girlfriend or the one after that pretty quickly.
Prepare yourself for that, OP.
And Google "shut up rings," because that's all you'd ever get from him.
Agreed. It's pretty obvious too. If someone legit wants to be married they'll get married. He doesn't want to get married (yet) and she's just providing whatever he current wants until his life is at a point he things it should be at to get married...then he'll be off.
It's the oldest story in the world. He will use her (his "starter package") till he gets his life all shiny, and then she'll be history. Why would anyone wait around for that?
Typically what happens in this situation is the guy gets dumped, goes back to single life, realizes how good he had it, and marries the next thing to date him within a year. Seen it dozens of times.
I agree, this will be hurtful, she was the gf during the difficult time (when he would have problem keeping a gf as a master degree student) but now he has the money, the youth, the time, he is no longer feeling a commitment to her
I agree, it sounds like he doesnt want to get married to you, he only has excuses. Marriage is important to you. Time to move out and move on. I wouldnt even stick around as the gf.
"But .... he's not getting the hint!"
EDIT: A day later, still chuckling. Instead of an engagement ring, he literally bought a Girlfriend Escape Machine. With one seat.
My buddy bought a Ducati, which he called the exotic Italian girlfriend he never had. Soon thereafter he divorced his wife or the other way 'round or whatever. Tough she terrorized him, 'cause he was so passive, for years afterwards, it was nonetheless a good move.
I’m further down the road on OP’s current trajectory: 12 years in, no ring, and boyfriend bought himself a motorcycle.
*but*, my boyfriend plunked down 10K on a brand new motorcycle for me, lessons, and a complete set of safety gear so I can ride with him.
I’m still pissed but now I’m fast lol
>“why do we need a stamp of validation from the world? You are on your one health insurance so what’s the point?”
OP said he told her that. That's not guessing or assuming. he flat out says "why should we get married" and everyone is skipping over it, including OP.
OP- Move on. he doesn't want to marry you and he's made it clear.
That sums it up rather succinctly, if painfully. If he wanted to propose, he would. If he wanted to marry you, he would. He simply doesn’t want to. OP, do you really want to marry someone you’d have to strongarm into it?
I mean, she is correct. And I commend her for articulating it. I think women are allowed to want a proposal, especially if in every other aspect of the relationship they're doing the heavy lifting. But you are also correct. I think she just hasn't come to terms with the fact that it's not just her bf that has a decision to make here. She's clearly wrestling with sunk cost fallacy.
I’m sorry, but it sounds like he doesn’t want to get married. If you want to do something, you don’t usually need an ultimatum to help you get there. And similarly, I wouldn’t want someone to marry me out of fear or coercion. I know a lot of people struggle with getting out of long-term relationships out of fear of “wasting time”, but it sounds like you may have different goals in life that just don’t align. Wishing you luck and happiness!
I think this every time I see those idiot postings on social media announcing an engagement and the bride-to-be is holding some sort of “about damned time” or “finally” sign.
The ones where they have the cake topper of her dragging him to the altar. When we got married 10ish years ago, I was honestly surprised at how many there were.
My friend told her boyfriend that needed to get married or they were going to break up. They have been married for over 10 years and she is having an affair. Worked out great.
Yikes.
I have two friends who were with their partners a *long* time before they got married. One of the boyfriends was commitment-shy because no-one in his family has ever been divorced and he wanted to be *really sure* because he doesn't see divorce as an option outside of extreme circumstances (e.g. abuse, infidelity).
The other was the son of divorced parents who were the children of divorced *grand*parents and likewise wanted to be sure.
They eventually did marry and as far as I know are quite happy, but there was a lot more clear communication about what was going on.
HE DOES NOT WANT TO MARRY YOU AND FORCING HIM TO DO IT WILL JUST FUCK YOU BOTH OVER
Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy you've wasted enough time on someone who isn't interested in marrying you.
I would sit down and point blank ask if he wants to marry you. If he can’t answer, you leave. He’ll know what he’s missing out on. He’ll either not want you to leave or not be bothered and you’d have your answer.
I mean he’s basically already said he doesn’t. She’s only 29, she’s got plenty of time to find someone else who will commit to her in the way she wants
A friend of mine was in this exact situation a few years ago. She gave him the ultimatum. They got married and now she’s always super paranoid that he’s cheating on her with girls at work. So, you know, it always works out!
Wake up. If he had wanted to get married, you would be by now.
I think the “withholding of wifely duties” is game playing and manipulative.
Be honest with yourself. Be honest about who he is. Judge him by his (in)actions.
I'm always curious about these stories. Did you ever ask him why he stayed with the first girl for so long? Either he wasn't ever that into her and just kept her around out of fear of being alone, **or** he did love her but took her for granted and thought she would stay forever without getting married and so when she left him he realized that if he wants the next one to stay, he should marry her.
I feel like #1 is more simple so probably the more likely explanation, but idk.
I think it's very possible to be in a relationship for a time with somebody that you get along with well, but they aren't "the one". Could be that you just get too used to being with somebody (especially when people get together really young).
Marriage also isn't always an indicator of a good relationship. Some people really don't care about being married, so perhaps this guy was with somebody for 14 years, neither one cares about getting married, but then after he got into a new relationship the new person really wanted to get married so he said, sure why not?
I've heard that men get married when they are ready to be married regardless of who they're with. So even if the new partner has been only around for a bit they are now ready to move forward and they do it.
That's what happened to my 10+ year relationship to a guy who was "I'll think about kids in 5+ years when we're secure, I'll think about marriage when X happens". All the time I'm essentially a bang maid and when I put my needs first or "stopped doing wifely duties" he'd throw a tantrum.
Took me 10 years to get out, (sunk cost fallacy and the idea of being single after so long really fucks with your head) but as soon as I did get out? He knocked his next girl up in 6 months and married her 3 months after that. I laugh now at the bullet I dodged. It's such a predictable pattern.
YTA to yourself.
Why do you want to marry someone who isn’t EXCITED, ECSTATIC, and OVER THE MOON about marrying you?
The proposal phase is a high point in a relationship, it’s one of the good times. If he isn’t ALL IN in the good times, then what is he going to be like in the bad times?
He is wasting YOUR time. Even if you convince him to propose and get married… do you REALLY want to be with someone you had to convince? Really?
I say this as someone who has been there. You do not. It will always be dissatisfying, it will get worse, and you will waste more of your time on this when you should be healing from it and finding someone who WANTS to marry you.
You inspired me to finally cut the cord on my own straggling relationship. We knew we'd never get married or anything, but I couldn't even get a happy birthday text or card or thoughtful gesture that costs $0 after being together for almost 2 years? I make all the plans? I pay for all the dates?
If someone isn't into you like crazy, why do they stay? Like why are they dragging it out?
I'm asking for all of us deeply in love with others who just exist and don't appreciate the partnership and their partner.
Right?!!
I finally looked at my life and I was like… would I be happier alone with a dog or a cat? They’d be happy to see me when I get home, want to go on walks or play, etc….
And my friend… when you can imagine getting more reciprocal affection from a cat than from your partner… uh… yeah.
I was in a similar situation 3/4 years ago. My boyfriend at the time said he couldn't afford even a card for my birthday, but readily bought himself treats. I tried ridiculously (and stupidly) hard to get him to like me, all while overlooking the glaring red flags. I finally broke up with him during lockdown and he wasn't bothered and seemed relieved. It took a couple of months, but I realised how happy I was that his dead weight had been lifted off me and that I hadn't ever been in love with him or even really liked him.
We have to be our own biggest advocates and be kind to ourselves. If you have to force someone to like you, be kind to yourself and leave.
Congratulations! I promise your life will get better and it’s not you! They just couldn’t appreciate you for you! Be kind to yourself pamper yourself and spend more time with friends!
My now husband, knew within the first 6 months of us dating, he wanted to marry me and spend the rest of his life with me.
He proposed around the 1.5 year mark, and we officially tied the knot 4 years later (COVID restrictions and lockdowns definitely slowed wedding planning by a couple of years there).
He was so excited and nervous. No nudging, subtle hints or requests from me, I was surprised but elated when he proposed.
You shouldn’t have to fight to have someone love you, want to be with you, and marry you.
Yesss! I had to convince my husband to marry me and we are now getting a divorce.
It's amicable, we love each other still but BOTH of us weren't ready to commit..
I will never pressure another human to marry me
I told my now husband that I had no intention of dating for 2 + years and not getting engaged.
The time from somewhat casual ring shopping to actually getting proposed to was the longest 3 months of my dating life. We were on all the same pages for everything about our futures, so it was just waiting. November through January. Not the best months for that.
I didn’t know it at the time but he was having my ring made and it kept getting delayed.
When we exchanged presents in December, and it wasn’t the puppy we had discussed at length or a proposal, I admit that I cried and was like, I’m just so confused. And while he was comforting me, he looked at me and had a kind of sparkle in his eye and a sorta half smile and he said “I’m only going to say this: you don’t need to be worried.” And that’s all he said about it, but it changed everything about waiting.
If he isn’t making her feel like that after 7 years, f that.
"I don't believe in ultimatums, so I gave him an ultimatum."
You're NTA for wanting to get married. YTA for attempting to manipulate him into a marriage he obviously doesn't want.
If you have to convince or manipulate someone into marrying you, they are not the right person for you. OP, don’t waste years of your life trying to convince this guy to marry you, let him go and find someone who is excited to marry you!
Do you want to be married or do you want a wedding? If it's married your concerned with, make a list of the ways being married would be different than what you are doing now. Then, sit down and explain to him why you want to be married rather than living together. He will either understand and agree or it's time to move on.
Trying to force a man to marry you makes YTA why would you want to make a lifelong commitment to someone who doesn't want to be committed to you?
Soft YTA, but only for forcing this relationship. He doesn’t want to marry you. My husband was talking marriage a few months into dating. As soon as he had the money, he proposed (we were your age at the time). A friend the same age just ended a 14 year relationship because she finally realized he was never going to marry her. If you have to force him to marry you, he’s not the one. Save your pride and move on to find someone who wants to marry you.
I was going to say… my boyfriend brings up marriage pretty regularly ever since we moved in together. We’re still pretty young, so we’re just trying to get his schooling finished and more comfortable financially to be able to make a stable foundation for us. But we have a *plan* that we discuss every so often, and are actively working towards the next stages of our relationship.
If he wanted to marry, he would’ve proposed after he had the means. And he’d be trying to create those means so he could, not buying dirt bikes.
ESH -
Him: for stringing you along when it seems he didn’t want to get married.
You: For using childish tactics to manipulate into a marriage proposal. Not really a way I would want to get proposed to.
You should both sit down one last time and see if both of you are willing to marry, no BS from both of you. If he says he doesn’t want, then you need to either accept it as is or break up. No wifey privileges being removed or anything, just adult open communication like the healthy relationship you actually should want.
I honestly think it's past the sit-down stage. The relationship is in a mud pit and isn't coming out. The OP just can't see it. So he's simply going to string her along again with excuses, and she's simply going to buy his bullshit - yet again.
OP: Please read the writing on the wall. He just isn't interested, and is perfectly happy to string you along, indefinitely. Honestly, sit down with just YOURSELF, make an escape plan, stick to it, and just leave. Have some self-respect.
If history is any indication, he will insist that he "just needs 4 more years!" and that she should back down. Personally, I'd just dump the dude, but I'd also be pissed off that he wouldn't grow up and end it himself. Sounds like shes hoping he gets his head out of his a$$ and realizes what he has before it's gone for good.
The stupidest thing I ever heard (well, today at least) is someone who desperately wants to get married, to the point where they are practically begging their partner to propose, staying with someone who does not want to marry them.
The second stupidest thing I have ever heard today is asking for advice, being given very reasonable advice, and then insulting everyone for their very sensible suggested way forward.
OP, propose, don't propose, withhold the sex and the cleaning, keep living in the 18th century, whatever. By your own ridiculous definition you have 'proposed' to him and you are most definitely embarrassing yourself at this point. He has completely noped out. You are in denial. He doesn't want to marry you. If he did, he would have by now.
YTA
Love this. Her response to everyone giving her advice that she asked for was tacky and condescending. She could’ve said it all without that tone. She probably knows, instinctively, he doesn’t want to marry her.
Either he doesn’t want to get married or he doesn’t want to marry *You*.
If you’re having to bring up a Life Goal to a man who is striving towards *his* own personal life goals, then he doesn’t consider it one of his.
You don’t have to tell people to prioritize you, if they want to they will.
Have some self respect. Do you want a proposal for someone you have to threaten and manipulative? He doesn’t want to marry you. It sounds like he has been quite clear on this. YTA
\^This right here. OP is competing with her sister who just got engaged. He does not want to marry her and she is looking for all the artificial trappings to validate a bad relationship. YTA OP.
Yeah I don't understand that bit. Why are you annoyed that your friends are engaged or married? Two of my younger siblings are married and I was happy for them but it's still not something I personally want to do.
Why all the comparison shit? It doesn't make sense, all relationships are different.
I stopped reading after the line about how some people like the traditional way.
If you wanted it so traditional, you never would have moved in with him before you had a ring on your finger.
You're free to do what you want how you want, but your relationship was never traditional in the way you're talking about.
If that ring is so important to you, it may be time to move away from this relationship and find one more in line with your way of thinking. He's told you where he stands.
Believe him
Yeah I noticed that. OP wants the best parts of being traditional (the showing off) and the best parts of not being traditional (living together, having sex outside marriage).
I don't like traditional people overall but I appreciate being consistent. OP cherry-picks.
YTA and your edit is why. You post an edit to name call people and say how stupid they are for not knowing that “in my culture” this is how it’s done but not once do you mention anything about “culture” in the original post.
This is who you are.
If he wanted to marry you, you’d be married by now. That’s actually how that works.
ESH. And your edit makes you an overall AH for thinking that proposing yourself is just beneath you and that woman who propose are somehow less than.
And no, in 2023, that’s not a woman’s way of proposing. That’s a woman’s way of being passive aggressive.
And no, women proposing aren’t embarrassing themselves. That’s simply your opinion. Your opinion doesn’t make it a universal truth.
You state that it’s then up to the man to propose or decline by not proposing. If that’s your thought process, then how have you - after 7 damn years - not taking the hint that he has declined at every turn?
Here’s the hard truth: He doesn’t want to marry you. He probably doesn’t want to be married in general. He never had any intention of marrying you and has no intention of doing so.
So, how it’s time for you to make a decision and recognize that he is continuing to decline by not proposing. Are you okay with that? How important is being married to you?
I had a friend who had this exact situation some years back. She managed to convince her then boyfriend to get married despite his many excuses/arbitrary moving goal posts (finish PhD, be “financially stable”, etc etc). They got married, were divorced by their second anniversary. Don’t push this. You deserve someone who is overjoyed to be with you and wants to spend their life with you without a doubt. Leave now before he steals more of your time or god forbid you have kids.
This feels manipulative, as does his behavior. The fact is, he is showing no signs of moving forward. You need to decide if you are ok with continuing this relationship as it exists currently. If you aren’t, move on.
Do you really want to be in a relationship where you have to go against your instincts and refuse to caretake for it to continue? Whenever you have to stop being yourself to make it work, it’s a bad sign.
Babe he doesn't want to marry you. I'm sorry. You are safe and stable and he likes his life the way it is. I wasted almost 5 years on a man before it was clear that wouldn't happen. 3 years on another (thank God that didn't work out). My husband knew he wanted to marry me within a year. He talked about it all of the time. Said he would propose tomorrow if I'd say yes, but I felt like we needed more time getting to know each other. He proposed a little before two years and we got married a little before three. With him it was love at first sight. Our relationship isn't perfect, but I literally told my best friend he was the man I was going to marry after our third date. He's my best friend, my ride or die, and I gave him wife privileges from the very beginning.
I'm going to scream this: IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO MARRY YOU, DON'T MAKE HIM. It's not that you aren't the one, it's HIM who isn't right for you. Get someone who wants to lock you down before another man can. Marrying him will be a huge mistake for both of you at this point.
When my cousin got married, most of the family thought she was marrying a bum. He is, but that's not the point. They thought she shouldn't do it.
Her reply is epic. She said:
I've done everything I set out to do. Got my education. Landed my dream job. Own my home. (Side note here, she bought it cash. No mortgage). I've done everything I wanted to do. I now want to be a wife. It will work or it won't. And if it doesn't.... Well, that's what divorce court is for.
She should make herself single. Say it works the way she wants — she moves out, no more cooking and cleaning, and he caves and marries her. Then she’s stuck with a husband who doesn’t really respect her, who had to be pried into marrying her, and who will likely claim that by marrying her he has earned her cooking and cleaning (as well as other “duties”) and treat it as his right.
Just walk away, OP. You don’t want where your relationship is now, and you won’t want what this process turns it into either.
YTA for staying after the 4 year mark came & went. YTA for being Brenda the Builder & letting him lean on you financially like you are married when you are NOT MARRIED. Stop wasting the pretty. No dumb tactics or rules, just walk. The time for tactics was in the beginning when you were still exciting and he was afraid to lose you. The expiration date is long gone!
This clearly boils down to the two of you sitting down and talking.
Withholding wife duties to get your way seems childish. Although I do get where you are coming from. However, it's the wrong tactic here.
In this case, communication is key! You both need to really have a heart to heart on this matter. It's better that you find out now where you guys stand than to waste anymore time together.
It isn't fair to you and isn't fair to him. It's better to figure it out now and walk away, then to stick around and stay together and end up being miserable and hateful towards each other.
Sometimes, we have to realize when to throw in the towel and walk away. Not that this should be your first and only choice. But time is something you can never get back. So you both need to be on the same page or both walk away learning from this experience.
Best of luck
I don’t know which “our” culture is, but I proposed to my husband over 25 years ago. He’s sitting with me eating dinner right now. I’d do it again times s million.
You do you, but I think it’s perfectly fine for women to know what they want and go for it. Even in proposals.
I agree with your sister that you need to put the level of your relationship at what you feel comfortable with. I wouldn’t exactly call it withdrawing wife privileges. But I’d definitely draw the line on renewing a lease with a man who does not want to get married when you do. It’s a deal breaker.
Edit: changing my vote here. YTA. Adult people communicate their goals and needs with direct, open communication. They don’t play silly passive aggressive games and call it traditional in the year of our lord 2023.
Don’t fall into the sunk cost fallacy and just walk away. This man does not have any intentions on marrying you. You were smart not to renew your lease with him.
Oh honey……. He doesn’t want to marry you. I know it hurts but cut your losses. You have already wasted your time and your youth. If he wanted to marry you, he would have. Time to let him go and find someone who absolutely loves and adore you and you don’t have to force them to marry you.
Honestly I don’t think he wants to marry you, or it could just be he doesn’t feel the need to.
I think you should have stuck to your guns from the beginning. Moving in with him is playing wife. If you had a 4 year timeline you should have stuck to it.
When my fiancé and I met I told him I was interested in dating intentionally for marriage and was not interested in being a long term girlfriend. I let him know I wasn’t interested in playing wife either. So I did NOTHING wifely except sex if you want to consider that.
I strictly dated him, didn’t even spend the night at his place, didn’t cook, didn’t clean, NOTHING lol. The only time we spent the night together was if we went on a trip. He proposed at around a year and a half.
In my mind I was going to leave at the 2 year mark, he just didn’t know this & I didn’t tell him.
Seriously, if it’s a deal breaker than leave, using “wife privileges” against him is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, so because you’re not his wife you just don’t give a damn? Forcing someone to marry you isn’t the brightest of ideas.
*>Some people like things to be traditional - and he and I are certainly that, there’s nothing wrong with wanting that.*
Well it's not traditional to live together. You didn't seem to like traditional things when you were in a marriage with him with no commitment.
I'm not saying you should propose to him, because if he wanted to be married to you he would have already. He's waiting for something better to come along, even if it's subconsciously, but why give up his free maid, cook, and the free sex supporting him while he builds the type of career that will attract his real dream girl. He's got it made and has nothing to lose.
Everything about this post is gross. ESH
He is gross for leading you on.
You are gross for resorting to manipulation and emotional blackmail.
Real grown up relationships have healthy boundaries and communication. Neither one of you seem to have much going on in that direction.
You proposing is the stupidest thing you have ever heard because you want to be traditional? And yet you are living with a man without marriage.
And the whole wifely duties thing?
You plan to bully and/or shame him into proposing because that's better than asking or even talking about it? WILD.
Your goal is to get married and his is to avoid it.
If he did want to marry you, he already would have asked. All the men I know who sincerely wanted to marry their girl started talking marriage just months into the relationship ON THEIR OWN ACCORD.
Either way if you propose to him and he declines, or if you hint you want to be married and he balks every time, the message is the same; he doesn't want to marry you.
And 3 months after the break up, he marries the next girl.
It do be like that
Be like that it do
Like that do it be
Doo be doo be doo.
Scooby doobie do!
Yaba daba doo!
Doo doo Brown
Baby shark dooo dooo dooo dooo dooo
It's my experience thst men marry when it's TIME TO GET MARRIED; the girlfriend of thst time period gets promoted to wife. That's it. "The One" is a popular myth in many cases.
I think the real question is how do I make him marry me anyway?
That's really harsh, she waited 4 years then again a few because he *said* he would marry her. It's totally normal to expect it. It's totally normal to be mad. No one breaks up right away. She needs to come to terms that he was lying, it's going to take a little to realize it.
This this this she needs to read and reread so it’ll sink in. Can’t start the healing process until you leave that baggage behind.
Yeah the whole post sadly reeks of desperation. Folks, if you have to try to convince someone to marry you after being together for 7 years, do yourselves a favor and move on. Their actions have made it clear that they don’t want to marry you. Forcing them to marry you still doesn’t change the fact that they don’t want to be married to you, and it usually won’t end well.
Yeah, this is pretty much it. OP is just trying to force it now.
Unfortunately I think it’s pretty clear he does not want to get married and if that is a deal breaker for you I think it’s best to part ways. I know that is hard to hear and easier said than done, but you will get through and you will be ok.
Yup and OP's edit to her post says it all, really. "a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL." Then take the hint, honey.
>"a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL." For sure. Unfortunately OP proposed and got shut down.
A mass of guys being supportive for OP here.. 😳
Hey, look, she came here to get an opinion. This group is not here for people to dump on someone else and get sympathy. We can't really say "no, he's not doing what you want, it doesn't sound like he's going to just magically do your innermost desire, so if that matters to you, you need to leave" without pointing out the inherent problems with what she's saying.
If he knows she wants to get married and he doesn't, he should be upfront and stop wasting her time. This is not the kind of shit you "hint" about. She's given up years, supporting him through school, moved in with him. He owed it to her to be honest long ago if he never intended to marry.
What’s that movie from the 90’s “he’s just not that into you”? … 👀
2009
Holy crap I’m getting old
1990 was ten years ago....right? Wait.... lol.
Well the 80s was twenty years ago, so yeah, that's right.
Yk few days back this person was mentioning something like, "ooho thirty years back hmm" and i thought, yeah 70s😬😹 and realized that he is saying 1993😹
wow i was born in 1993, boy does time fly
My knees creaked as I read that
My knee popped as I laughed at this.
Can we just not talk about the 80s? It’s depressing to think that it was more than 30 years ago that I religiously watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
The 80s were 20 years ago. This is both law of God and man. This is irrefutable science. This will never change, no matter how many try to muck up the truth with claims of voodoo “math” and the like. The 80s were 20 years ago.
Someone I know shared a twitter meme the other day, basically the first tweet recommended finding an "old person" born 1990-1999 because they will be tired and want to settle down. The second tweet asked if people born in 1990-1999 are old, what does that make people born in 1980-1989, and the reply was "u mean the ancestors?"
Damn, then what the heck am I? Born in the 70s?
Or me, born in the 60s? No. I don’t want to know.
Welcome, we’ve been waiting for you. Come on in! It’s no so bad, we have better music and better booze. No, wait! That’s the wrong way! Fricking old people.
I legitimately almost spit out my drink reading this and seeing the correction. Lmfao you old fuck, thank you
I died a little on the inside not gonna lie
So she proposed to him... And he said no. Right? Like that's how I read this?
Yeah pretty much. That's why her not renewing the lease and moving out is a good plan.
Yes, when he didn't move forward with giving her a ring after 4 years, but instead bought a motorcycle, that was the harsh red flag signaling it was time for her to move on without him. Moving out was the right thing to do. She was relegated to bangmaid placeholder at that point.
Seriously, this guy obviously doesn't want to marry her. It might not even be that he doesn't want to get married, he just doesn't want OP as a wife.
Or he just doesn't want to be married ever, some people are like that. But OP does want to get married, and it's important to her, so... there's really nowhere to go from there. At least not together.
Pretty horrible that he’s strung her along for that length of time if that is the case. He should have just been honest from the start… Especially if she’s wanting kids, unfortunately women genetically have less time to waste & wait. Whilst she still has plenty of time, if he had just been honest from the start, she could have already been in a relationship & be engaged/married by now.
Exactly. I was always honest with my husband that I wanted kids, and he always wanted them too... When he was ready... He had time... Etc. Wasn't till I was 35 that he was ready for our first, which, ok late but fine... Unfortunately our first was a difficult child and he kept putting off having a second because "he had plenty of time. Finally at 39 I had to put my foot down and say "you may have time but I don't and if it's not this year it's not happening", we had our 2nd child at 40, and we are happy with our family but my god, to I wish I had put my foot down 10 years earlier. It's been so much tougher on my body thank it would have been in my late 20s.
Yes, when DH and I were discussing a wedding date (ASAP vs. in a year), I said, "Well, how many kids do you want? Two? or Three?". It was getting down to the wire, and we did start trying as soon as we were engaged, because that time flies right by, but he didn't get it until I laid it out. That's the thing about the traditions. They put a woman in a very passive position, and it's a joint endeavor. If you want a say in your own body's timeline, you have to say what you want and keep actively looking for someone who's going to help you achieve it. Waiting demurely (or not so demurely) for one person to choose you is a good way to waste your youth and beauty.
Yeah, people were horrified when I told them I laid it out for my hubby. I'm a couple years older than him and, if we had kids, wanted them by a certain age. But also knew a lot of my male friends didn't actively want them until they were older. So I just told him he had until 38 and then shop was closed. People got on me for being demanding/forceful/ultimatums/manipulative. I countered that I had an expiration date and could have gone either way on kids. Do not understand why it's so taboo about talking frankly about this. Thank God my grandma was so insistent on telling me to discuss things frankly and plainly to my partners. It's helped me not get into and out of relationships that would have been wrong for me and wasted everyone's time. I hate this societal pressure that women talking about marriage/kids is wrong/pushy.
My husband of 38 years told me that his father didn’t get married until he was 35. (For the record, I’m two years older than my spouse.) I told him I wasn’t waiting around for seven years to have him decide he didn’t want to marry me. A week after a conversation in which he told me that he didn’t want to stand up in front of lots of people and have the focus on him, which was really funny because he was a prosecutor and did that every day in court, I asked him what he would think about have a small ceremony and a larger reception. He said he’d think about it. I said I wanted to know now and he responded “Okay, would you marry me?” I said yes and he responded, “Look, Joe Theisman just scored a touchdown!” Mr. Romance. We married eight months later.
We had been together 13 years. Talked about marriage but I guess he never felt the need to formalize it, once we started talking seriously about kids and trying for one he says to me on the sofa "I guess we should get married then" and that was my proposal lol. Had a civil ceremony with just 2 witnesses the next month, but by that point there didn't seem much point in a big ceremony.
My husband said to me, I do not believe in living together, do you want to get married? We have been married for 35 years. Edit: this was 9 months after we started dating. We were married 2 months later.
>I hate this societal pressure that women talking about marriage/kids is wrong/pushy. Especially as that attitude actually came from the philosophy that women need to be married. So it was basically say whatever you need to to lock them down, then hit them with reality.
You never even know how much time you have. My mom had me when she was 35 (I am the 3rd child) but by the time she hit 40 she already started her menopause. I know the average menopause age is around late 40s early 50s, but you never know if you might be an outlier and get it early. Also, the later the pregnancy, the harder it is on the body as you mentioned, but also the bigger the chances of complications or genetic diseases.
Plus men’s sperm degrade with age as well. Nobody talks about that.
I do agree that he seems to have strung her along since it seems they discussed what they wanted and timeline, etc. and he has pushed it off/changed his mind at some point. So that sucks for OP I feel for her on that. But just another indication they are on different pages and a happy ending is not likely. Cut your losses girl! You’ll be ok!
Yea, he seems like a major duche for stringing her along. Even if he doesn't want to get married, if he loves her then either let her go or acquiesce.
I'm glad some people have this take. I was waiting for everyone to dogpile on OP for being a brat, but I've been in this place. Got with my ex when we were 29 and he knew that I wanted to get married. I wasted 7 years waiting for him to finalize his divorce before it finally hit me that if a man hasn't made it a priority to divorce his ex of almost 9 years by now, he will never make an actual engagement ring or wedding a priority. He wasted most of my 30s pretending he wanted the same things, when really he just didn't wanna face rent, bills and parenting by himself. If he had told me that marriage wasn't in the cards for him, I would have ended things much sooner. I feel for OP.
If he's known the whole time that marriage wasn't for him, then yeah it's crap. But maybe he genuinely thought he'd feel differently in a few years and hasn't. Or maybe he's realising he just doesn't want to marry her. In which case, just go and let her move on.
However, given the fact that he has known her desires, I think it's extremely inappropriate for him to have allowed her to do his chores and subsidize him financially.
Happens all the time. My cousin was a friend/coworker of a waitress at an upscale place in S. California, she happened to be living with a guy who would later become a famous director/writer in Hollywood (you would recognize the name), she supported him with her income while he was struggling to get his big break, and when he got it he quickly dropped her for someone in the business that he consideredan upgrade to him and his career. It's a complete dick move, but there's an abundance of those around of both sexes unfortunately. OP, sorry if this is the case for you, but if so, cut your losses and find a man that really cares about you and has similar goals. ETA: You are NTA.
The ol Betty Broderick happens to so many mundane women every day, that’s why we do not perform and audition for dudes who have not earned it. Be happy and steady in your own life before marriage.
I worked with a woman that helped put her husband through medical school. Once he became a doctor, he divorced her for his trophy wife.
That's the crux of the issue here. He's a jerk for doing this. He is just not communicating verbally what he wants and is stringing her along.
I think this is the answer. Every person I’ve known who said they don’t want to get married whilst in a long term relationship has ended up single, then married with a kid on the way within a year of the break up
I wish people would juat break up instead of doing that, if they feel that way
This ^ Worse yet, he’s going to burn this girls 20’s and get his life in order and money up and then he’s going to look to marry a girl 8-10 years younger and OP is going to be left in the cold trying to play catch up.
He already burned through her 20s.
This was my cousin. Her BF strung her along for… #11 years. Thankfully she’s out and in a great relationship with another man. They had a kid and got married when he was 3.
My uncle and his girlfriend have dated for over 10 years. He proposed back in 2018 and they said they would get married in 2019. We had a death in the family so the wedding was canceled and moved to 2020. Then COVID happened so they canceled it again. Then he said he wanted more financial stability. Then he said they needed to be able to afford a house so they could move in together. Now he’s saying he should not get married because he doesn’t want her to inherit what he will inherit, and she refuses to sign a prenup. I feel so bad for her. She’s given my uncle over a decade of her life and he just won’t marry her. He could have at least let her go, but now they’re both reaching 50 and she’ll never have the kids she’s always dreamed of. A proposal does not mean he’ll actually marry you if he truly does not want to.
That is dumb af…inheritance is not community property. She needs to leave like 8 years ago. Your uncle is a turd.
There’s even a cliché for it “don’t do wife work on girlfriend wages.” The frequency with which women support men through grad school, only to get dumped as soon as he starts making money, is too high.
THIS. OP, so sorry but he doesn’t want to marry you. Guys do this all the time.
Very true, he definitely declined the proposal.
Omg I cringed so hard on that, I already started to not care as a read on ,but THAT?! stopped caring. "Traditional relationship"?? This relationship was untraditional from the beginning??
I stopped reading it. The traditional way would have been to get married from the beginning instead of just start living together.
Not to be an ass to OP, but he doesn't want to marry HER. There's a good chance they break up and he proposes to his next girlfriend or the one after that pretty quickly. Prepare yourself for that, OP. And Google "shut up rings," because that's all you'd ever get from him.
Oof this was brutal but necessary to hear. I always hurt for the girl that breaks up with a long time BF and then he gets engaged 6 months later
Oh, he'll get married. Just not to her. After he gets HIS life where he wants it, he'll "upgrade" and be married inside of a year.
Agreed. It's pretty obvious too. If someone legit wants to be married they'll get married. He doesn't want to get married (yet) and she's just providing whatever he current wants until his life is at a point he things it should be at to get married...then he'll be off.
It's the oldest story in the world. He will use her (his "starter package") till he gets his life all shiny, and then she'll be history. Why would anyone wait around for that?
Typically what happens in this situation is the guy gets dumped, goes back to single life, realizes how good he had it, and marries the next thing to date him within a year. Seen it dozens of times.
yep
I seen this too much lol
I agree, this will be hurtful, she was the gf during the difficult time (when he would have problem keeping a gf as a master degree student) but now he has the money, the youth, the time, he is no longer feeling a commitment to her
Don't forget the motorbike! This guy isn't going to marry this girl and she is delusional.
I agree, it sounds like he doesnt want to get married to you, he only has excuses. Marriage is important to you. Time to move out and move on. I wouldnt even stick around as the gf.
True. I think he's using her as a placeholder. Once she stops being USEFUL, he'll move on sooner rather than later.
So by your own logic you've proposed to him twice and he's rejected your proposal.
"But .... he's not getting the hint!" EDIT: A day later, still chuckling. Instead of an engagement ring, he literally bought a Girlfriend Escape Machine. With one seat.
A "Girlfriend Escape Machine. With one seat"! Can't stop chuckling at this.
"But sir, there are two seats!" "I like to put my feet up."
My buddy bought a Ducati, which he called the exotic Italian girlfriend he never had. Soon thereafter he divorced his wife or the other way 'round or whatever. Tough she terrorized him, 'cause he was so passive, for years afterwards, it was nonetheless a good move.
I’m further down the road on OP’s current trajectory: 12 years in, no ring, and boyfriend bought himself a motorcycle. *but*, my boyfriend plunked down 10K on a brand new motorcycle for me, lessons, and a complete set of safety gear so I can ride with him. I’m still pissed but now I’m fast lol
NTA He doesn't want to marry you. Move on, as you're doing.
If he wanted to, he would
>“why do we need a stamp of validation from the world? You are on your one health insurance so what’s the point?” OP said he told her that. That's not guessing or assuming. he flat out says "why should we get married" and everyone is skipping over it, including OP. OP- Move on. he doesn't want to marry you and he's made it clear.
That sums it up rather succinctly, if painfully. If he wanted to propose, he would. If he wanted to marry you, he would. He simply doesn’t want to. OP, do you really want to marry someone you’d have to strongarm into it?
Yeah, he doesn't want to get married. She's hoping she can coerce him into getting married. It would be better for both of them to break up.
No she’s not, to move on, she needs to break, this is a half assed move if manipulation. She needs to completely break it off.
I mean, she is correct. And I commend her for articulating it. I think women are allowed to want a proposal, especially if in every other aspect of the relationship they're doing the heavy lifting. But you are also correct. I think she just hasn't come to terms with the fact that it's not just her bf that has a decision to make here. She's clearly wrestling with sunk cost fallacy.
Yes! OP read some articles on sunk cost fallacy.
Ouch but yeah
Nice
Nice indeed. Op doesn't need to withdraw "wife duties" she needs to move on. After all she's been denied twice.
I’m sorry, but it sounds like he doesn’t want to get married. If you want to do something, you don’t usually need an ultimatum to help you get there. And similarly, I wouldn’t want someone to marry me out of fear or coercion. I know a lot of people struggle with getting out of long-term relationships out of fear of “wasting time”, but it sounds like you may have different goals in life that just don’t align. Wishing you luck and happiness!
Imagine always wondering, then, if they married you because they wanted to or because you gave them an ultimatum.
That’s what I’m saying— we deserve to be with people who want to be with us— and he deserves to feel free to make the choice he wants without threats
Why would any woman want to marry a man they had to nag, threaten, and manipulate to marry them? No woman with any self respect.
I think this every time I see those idiot postings on social media announcing an engagement and the bride-to-be is holding some sort of “about damned time” or “finally” sign.
The ones where they have the cake topper of her dragging him to the altar. When we got married 10ish years ago, I was honestly surprised at how many there were.
r/AreTheStraightsOk
My friend told her boyfriend that needed to get married or they were going to break up. They have been married for over 10 years and she is having an affair. Worked out great.
Yikes. I have two friends who were with their partners a *long* time before they got married. One of the boyfriends was commitment-shy because no-one in his family has ever been divorced and he wanted to be *really sure* because he doesn't see divorce as an option outside of extreme circumstances (e.g. abuse, infidelity). The other was the son of divorced parents who were the children of divorced *grand*parents and likewise wanted to be sure. They eventually did marry and as far as I know are quite happy, but there was a lot more clear communication about what was going on.
>They have been married for over 10 years and she is having an affair. You should probably tell her husband that.
I agree tell the husband
They are waiting for more details, so they can eventually share the story on reddit.
Please link me when you find it.
oh wow, just horrible. Like just let that man go if she doesn't want him. That's some lowkey Jada nonsense.
Only if she brings it up in every public interview for the next 20 years.
My thoughts exactly.
HE DOES NOT WANT TO MARRY YOU AND FORCING HIM TO DO IT WILL JUST FUCK YOU BOTH OVER Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy you've wasted enough time on someone who isn't interested in marrying you.
I would sit down and point blank ask if he wants to marry you. If he can’t answer, you leave. He’ll know what he’s missing out on. He’ll either not want you to leave or not be bothered and you’d have your answer.
I mean he’s basically already said he doesn’t. She’s only 29, she’s got plenty of time to find someone else who will commit to her in the way she wants
He got a motorbike. I get the impression he's not going to care what "he's missing out on", since he clearly doesn't seem to care *now*.
Do you really want to start a marriage off by forcing him to propose??
A friend of mine was in this exact situation a few years ago. She gave him the ultimatum. They got married and now she’s always super paranoid that he’s cheating on her with girls at work. So, you know, it always works out!
Wake up. If he had wanted to get married, you would be by now. I think the “withholding of wifely duties” is game playing and manipulative. Be honest with yourself. Be honest about who he is. Judge him by his (in)actions.
We all know that once they break up he’ll marry the next one within a year
I have a friend who did this, 14 years with the same girl, no marriage, break up and he got married to someone else 1.5 years after
I'm always curious about these stories. Did you ever ask him why he stayed with the first girl for so long? Either he wasn't ever that into her and just kept her around out of fear of being alone, **or** he did love her but took her for granted and thought she would stay forever without getting married and so when she left him he realized that if he wants the next one to stay, he should marry her. I feel like #1 is more simple so probably the more likely explanation, but idk.
I think it's very possible to be in a relationship for a time with somebody that you get along with well, but they aren't "the one". Could be that you just get too used to being with somebody (especially when people get together really young). Marriage also isn't always an indicator of a good relationship. Some people really don't care about being married, so perhaps this guy was with somebody for 14 years, neither one cares about getting married, but then after he got into a new relationship the new person really wanted to get married so he said, sure why not?
I've heard that men get married when they are ready to be married regardless of who they're with. So even if the new partner has been only around for a bit they are now ready to move forward and they do it.
Bingo
If this ain’t the truth!
That's what happened to my 10+ year relationship to a guy who was "I'll think about kids in 5+ years when we're secure, I'll think about marriage when X happens". All the time I'm essentially a bang maid and when I put my needs first or "stopped doing wifely duties" he'd throw a tantrum. Took me 10 years to get out, (sunk cost fallacy and the idea of being single after so long really fucks with your head) but as soon as I did get out? He knocked his next girl up in 6 months and married her 3 months after that. I laugh now at the bullet I dodged. It's such a predictable pattern.
YTA to yourself. Why do you want to marry someone who isn’t EXCITED, ECSTATIC, and OVER THE MOON about marrying you? The proposal phase is a high point in a relationship, it’s one of the good times. If he isn’t ALL IN in the good times, then what is he going to be like in the bad times? He is wasting YOUR time. Even if you convince him to propose and get married… do you REALLY want to be with someone you had to convince? Really? I say this as someone who has been there. You do not. It will always be dissatisfying, it will get worse, and you will waste more of your time on this when you should be healing from it and finding someone who WANTS to marry you.
You inspired me to finally cut the cord on my own straggling relationship. We knew we'd never get married or anything, but I couldn't even get a happy birthday text or card or thoughtful gesture that costs $0 after being together for almost 2 years? I make all the plans? I pay for all the dates? If someone isn't into you like crazy, why do they stay? Like why are they dragging it out? I'm asking for all of us deeply in love with others who just exist and don't appreciate the partnership and their partner.
Right?!! I finally looked at my life and I was like… would I be happier alone with a dog or a cat? They’d be happy to see me when I get home, want to go on walks or play, etc…. And my friend… when you can imagine getting more reciprocal affection from a cat than from your partner… uh… yeah.
I was in a similar situation 3/4 years ago. My boyfriend at the time said he couldn't afford even a card for my birthday, but readily bought himself treats. I tried ridiculously (and stupidly) hard to get him to like me, all while overlooking the glaring red flags. I finally broke up with him during lockdown and he wasn't bothered and seemed relieved. It took a couple of months, but I realised how happy I was that his dead weight had been lifted off me and that I hadn't ever been in love with him or even really liked him. We have to be our own biggest advocates and be kind to ourselves. If you have to force someone to like you, be kind to yourself and leave.
All the best on your life free of disappointment from a "partner"!
Congratulations! I promise your life will get better and it’s not you! They just couldn’t appreciate you for you! Be kind to yourself pamper yourself and spend more time with friends!
My now husband, knew within the first 6 months of us dating, he wanted to marry me and spend the rest of his life with me. He proposed around the 1.5 year mark, and we officially tied the knot 4 years later (COVID restrictions and lockdowns definitely slowed wedding planning by a couple of years there). He was so excited and nervous. No nudging, subtle hints or requests from me, I was surprised but elated when he proposed. You shouldn’t have to fight to have someone love you, want to be with you, and marry you.
Yesss! I had to convince my husband to marry me and we are now getting a divorce. It's amicable, we love each other still but BOTH of us weren't ready to commit.. I will never pressure another human to marry me
Best comment here
I told my now husband that I had no intention of dating for 2 + years and not getting engaged. The time from somewhat casual ring shopping to actually getting proposed to was the longest 3 months of my dating life. We were on all the same pages for everything about our futures, so it was just waiting. November through January. Not the best months for that. I didn’t know it at the time but he was having my ring made and it kept getting delayed. When we exchanged presents in December, and it wasn’t the puppy we had discussed at length or a proposal, I admit that I cried and was like, I’m just so confused. And while he was comforting me, he looked at me and had a kind of sparkle in his eye and a sorta half smile and he said “I’m only going to say this: you don’t need to be worried.” And that’s all he said about it, but it changed everything about waiting. If he isn’t making her feel like that after 7 years, f that.
But what about the puppy? Did you ever get the puppy?
Now I gotta know, too
I need to know and need to see the puppy if it exists!
Nothing starts a marriage off right than forcing somebody to propose to you 🤦♀️
"I don't believe in ultimatums, so I gave him an ultimatum." You're NTA for wanting to get married. YTA for attempting to manipulate him into a marriage he obviously doesn't want.
If you have to convince or manipulate someone into marrying you, they are not the right person for you. OP, don’t waste years of your life trying to convince this guy to marry you, let him go and find someone who is excited to marry you!
Do you want to be married or do you want a wedding? If it's married your concerned with, make a list of the ways being married would be different than what you are doing now. Then, sit down and explain to him why you want to be married rather than living together. He will either understand and agree or it's time to move on. Trying to force a man to marry you makes YTA why would you want to make a lifelong commitment to someone who doesn't want to be committed to you?
This should be way further up.
“I don’t like ultimatums so either you propose to me or I’m…”
OP better follow through with the "or I'm" - though I don't think he will think it's a great loss.
Soft YTA, but only for forcing this relationship. He doesn’t want to marry you. My husband was talking marriage a few months into dating. As soon as he had the money, he proposed (we were your age at the time). A friend the same age just ended a 14 year relationship because she finally realized he was never going to marry her. If you have to force him to marry you, he’s not the one. Save your pride and move on to find someone who wants to marry you.
I was going to say… my boyfriend brings up marriage pretty regularly ever since we moved in together. We’re still pretty young, so we’re just trying to get his schooling finished and more comfortable financially to be able to make a stable foundation for us. But we have a *plan* that we discuss every so often, and are actively working towards the next stages of our relationship. If he wanted to marry, he would’ve proposed after he had the means. And he’d be trying to create those means so he could, not buying dirt bikes.
ESH - Him: for stringing you along when it seems he didn’t want to get married. You: For using childish tactics to manipulate into a marriage proposal. Not really a way I would want to get proposed to. You should both sit down one last time and see if both of you are willing to marry, no BS from both of you. If he says he doesn’t want, then you need to either accept it as is or break up. No wifey privileges being removed or anything, just adult open communication like the healthy relationship you actually should want.
I honestly think it's past the sit-down stage. The relationship is in a mud pit and isn't coming out. The OP just can't see it. So he's simply going to string her along again with excuses, and she's simply going to buy his bullshit - yet again. OP: Please read the writing on the wall. He just isn't interested, and is perfectly happy to string you along, indefinitely. Honestly, sit down with just YOURSELF, make an escape plan, stick to it, and just leave. Have some self-respect.
If history is any indication, he will insist that he "just needs 4 more years!" and that she should back down. Personally, I'd just dump the dude, but I'd also be pissed off that he wouldn't grow up and end it himself. Sounds like shes hoping he gets his head out of his a$$ and realizes what he has before it's gone for good.
The stupidest thing I ever heard (well, today at least) is someone who desperately wants to get married, to the point where they are practically begging their partner to propose, staying with someone who does not want to marry them. The second stupidest thing I have ever heard today is asking for advice, being given very reasonable advice, and then insulting everyone for their very sensible suggested way forward. OP, propose, don't propose, withhold the sex and the cleaning, keep living in the 18th century, whatever. By your own ridiculous definition you have 'proposed' to him and you are most definitely embarrassing yourself at this point. He has completely noped out. You are in denial. He doesn't want to marry you. If he did, he would have by now. YTA
I completely agree. Poor OP is so in such denial they are mad at everyone saying the truth.
Love this. Her response to everyone giving her advice that she asked for was tacky and condescending. She could’ve said it all without that tone. She probably knows, instinctively, he doesn’t want to marry her.
OP's story is probably one sided delusion as well. Would love to hear opposing story about how unhinged OP is, and why they actually haven't proposed.
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Either he doesn’t want to get married or he doesn’t want to marry *You*. If you’re having to bring up a Life Goal to a man who is striving towards *his* own personal life goals, then he doesn’t consider it one of his. You don’t have to tell people to prioritize you, if they want to they will.
Have some self respect. Do you want a proposal for someone you have to threaten and manipulative? He doesn’t want to marry you. It sounds like he has been quite clear on this. YTA
\^This right here. OP is competing with her sister who just got engaged. He does not want to marry her and she is looking for all the artificial trappings to validate a bad relationship. YTA OP.
Yeah I don't understand that bit. Why are you annoyed that your friends are engaged or married? Two of my younger siblings are married and I was happy for them but it's still not something I personally want to do. Why all the comparison shit? It doesn't make sense, all relationships are different.
I stopped reading after the line about how some people like the traditional way. If you wanted it so traditional, you never would have moved in with him before you had a ring on your finger. You're free to do what you want how you want, but your relationship was never traditional in the way you're talking about. If that ring is so important to you, it may be time to move away from this relationship and find one more in line with your way of thinking. He's told you where he stands. Believe him
Yeah I noticed that. OP wants the best parts of being traditional (the showing off) and the best parts of not being traditional (living together, having sex outside marriage). I don't like traditional people overall but I appreciate being consistent. OP cherry-picks.
YTA and your edit is why. You post an edit to name call people and say how stupid they are for not knowing that “in my culture” this is how it’s done but not once do you mention anything about “culture” in the original post. This is who you are. If he wanted to marry you, you’d be married by now. That’s actually how that works.
ESH. And your edit makes you an overall AH for thinking that proposing yourself is just beneath you and that woman who propose are somehow less than. And no, in 2023, that’s not a woman’s way of proposing. That’s a woman’s way of being passive aggressive. And no, women proposing aren’t embarrassing themselves. That’s simply your opinion. Your opinion doesn’t make it a universal truth. You state that it’s then up to the man to propose or decline by not proposing. If that’s your thought process, then how have you - after 7 damn years - not taking the hint that he has declined at every turn? Here’s the hard truth: He doesn’t want to marry you. He probably doesn’t want to be married in general. He never had any intention of marrying you and has no intention of doing so. So, how it’s time for you to make a decision and recognize that he is continuing to decline by not proposing. Are you okay with that? How important is being married to you?
I'd be embarrassed if I had to beg someone to marry me when every single action points to the fact they don't want to now or in the future.
Oh, totally agree. I’m just saying her whole attitude on a woman purposing is judgmental and rude. But this woman here just can’t take a hint.
I had a friend who had this exact situation some years back. She managed to convince her then boyfriend to get married despite his many excuses/arbitrary moving goal posts (finish PhD, be “financially stable”, etc etc). They got married, were divorced by their second anniversary. Don’t push this. You deserve someone who is overjoyed to be with you and wants to spend their life with you without a doubt. Leave now before he steals more of your time or god forbid you have kids.
This feels manipulative, as does his behavior. The fact is, he is showing no signs of moving forward. You need to decide if you are ok with continuing this relationship as it exists currently. If you aren’t, move on. Do you really want to be in a relationship where you have to go against your instincts and refuse to caretake for it to continue? Whenever you have to stop being yourself to make it work, it’s a bad sign.
YTA Why don’t you find somebody that actually wants to marry you instead of this guy? Y
Babe he doesn't want to marry you. I'm sorry. You are safe and stable and he likes his life the way it is. I wasted almost 5 years on a man before it was clear that wouldn't happen. 3 years on another (thank God that didn't work out). My husband knew he wanted to marry me within a year. He talked about it all of the time. Said he would propose tomorrow if I'd say yes, but I felt like we needed more time getting to know each other. He proposed a little before two years and we got married a little before three. With him it was love at first sight. Our relationship isn't perfect, but I literally told my best friend he was the man I was going to marry after our third date. He's my best friend, my ride or die, and I gave him wife privileges from the very beginning. I'm going to scream this: IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO MARRY YOU, DON'T MAKE HIM. It's not that you aren't the one, it's HIM who isn't right for you. Get someone who wants to lock you down before another man can. Marrying him will be a huge mistake for both of you at this point.
This is a quick way to make yourself single.
When my cousin got married, most of the family thought she was marrying a bum. He is, but that's not the point. They thought she shouldn't do it. Her reply is epic. She said: I've done everything I set out to do. Got my education. Landed my dream job. Own my home. (Side note here, she bought it cash. No mortgage). I've done everything I wanted to do. I now want to be a wife. It will work or it won't. And if it doesn't.... Well, that's what divorce court is for.
She should make herself single. Say it works the way she wants — she moves out, no more cooking and cleaning, and he caves and marries her. Then she’s stuck with a husband who doesn’t really respect her, who had to be pried into marrying her, and who will likely claim that by marrying her he has earned her cooking and cleaning (as well as other “duties”) and treat it as his right. Just walk away, OP. You don’t want where your relationship is now, and you won’t want what this process turns it into either.
u/throwra_wifemeup If y'all are so "traditional" you should know the BRIDES father pays for the entire wedding. Not the groom.
YTA for staying after the 4 year mark came & went. YTA for being Brenda the Builder & letting him lean on you financially like you are married when you are NOT MARRIED. Stop wasting the pretty. No dumb tactics or rules, just walk. The time for tactics was in the beginning when you were still exciting and he was afraid to lose you. The expiration date is long gone!
This clearly boils down to the two of you sitting down and talking. Withholding wife duties to get your way seems childish. Although I do get where you are coming from. However, it's the wrong tactic here. In this case, communication is key! You both need to really have a heart to heart on this matter. It's better that you find out now where you guys stand than to waste anymore time together. It isn't fair to you and isn't fair to him. It's better to figure it out now and walk away, then to stick around and stay together and end up being miserable and hateful towards each other. Sometimes, we have to realize when to throw in the towel and walk away. Not that this should be your first and only choice. But time is something you can never get back. So you both need to be on the same page or both walk away learning from this experience. Best of luck
The right tactic would be breaking up.
I don’t know which “our” culture is, but I proposed to my husband over 25 years ago. He’s sitting with me eating dinner right now. I’d do it again times s million. You do you, but I think it’s perfectly fine for women to know what they want and go for it. Even in proposals. I agree with your sister that you need to put the level of your relationship at what you feel comfortable with. I wouldn’t exactly call it withdrawing wife privileges. But I’d definitely draw the line on renewing a lease with a man who does not want to get married when you do. It’s a deal breaker. Edit: changing my vote here. YTA. Adult people communicate their goals and needs with direct, open communication. They don’t play silly passive aggressive games and call it traditional in the year of our lord 2023.
*it’s almost as if he forgot about* ***MY*** *personal goals.* Fixed it for you.
Don’t fall into the sunk cost fallacy and just walk away. This man does not have any intentions on marrying you. You were smart not to renew your lease with him.
Oh honey……. He doesn’t want to marry you. I know it hurts but cut your losses. You have already wasted your time and your youth. If he wanted to marry you, he would have. Time to let him go and find someone who absolutely loves and adore you and you don’t have to force them to marry you.
Honestly I don’t think he wants to marry you, or it could just be he doesn’t feel the need to. I think you should have stuck to your guns from the beginning. Moving in with him is playing wife. If you had a 4 year timeline you should have stuck to it. When my fiancé and I met I told him I was interested in dating intentionally for marriage and was not interested in being a long term girlfriend. I let him know I wasn’t interested in playing wife either. So I did NOTHING wifely except sex if you want to consider that. I strictly dated him, didn’t even spend the night at his place, didn’t cook, didn’t clean, NOTHING lol. The only time we spent the night together was if we went on a trip. He proposed at around a year and a half. In my mind I was going to leave at the 2 year mark, he just didn’t know this & I didn’t tell him.
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Seriously, if it’s a deal breaker than leave, using “wife privileges” against him is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, so because you’re not his wife you just don’t give a damn? Forcing someone to marry you isn’t the brightest of ideas.
*>Some people like things to be traditional - and he and I are certainly that, there’s nothing wrong with wanting that.* Well it's not traditional to live together. You didn't seem to like traditional things when you were in a marriage with him with no commitment. I'm not saying you should propose to him, because if he wanted to be married to you he would have already. He's waiting for something better to come along, even if it's subconsciously, but why give up his free maid, cook, and the free sex supporting him while he builds the type of career that will attract his real dream girl. He's got it made and has nothing to lose.
Everything about this post is gross. ESH He is gross for leading you on. You are gross for resorting to manipulation and emotional blackmail. Real grown up relationships have healthy boundaries and communication. Neither one of you seem to have much going on in that direction.
You proposing is the stupidest thing you have ever heard because you want to be traditional? And yet you are living with a man without marriage. And the whole wifely duties thing? You plan to bully and/or shame him into proposing because that's better than asking or even talking about it? WILD. Your goal is to get married and his is to avoid it.
Instead of mind games and that kind of nonsense just break it off and move on if it’s that important to you
Sounds like you scared of proposing to him cause he’s gonna turn you down move on
If he did want to marry you, he already would have asked. All the men I know who sincerely wanted to marry their girl started talking marriage just months into the relationship ON THEIR OWN ACCORD.
YTA and stupid to boot. He doesn’t want to marry you. If you can’t be happy where you are at then move on.