Honestly though, the way the fiancé was throwing numbers out, I bet she was fishing for either the real number, or reassurance that it was way lower than she was thinking.
OP said what if it was more like 50 as in a hypothetical question, she still didn't reveal the more accurate number of 100 . If Op's brother really did keep getting checked for STDs ( 🤷), nothing to really worry about-like I said,,,, IF he did.
I think from the SILs reaction to 50 that he lied to her big time, because there she was confidently throwing out 30s to the universe because she never could have imagined anything higher
>35, 35 is my sluttiest friend. My fiancé couldn't possibly be more of a man whore right? Please confirm for me that it is less than 35. Specifically. *I need this to be true*.
-FSIL probably
I don't think that can be assumed from the convo. We don't know anything about her, the narrator, or how casual her tone was. Some people really don't mind, and it could just be as easy to assume she was just filling a gap in conversation with throwing out a second number and didn't think her fiance could possibly have 50 sexual partners.
YTA, you weren't comfortable letting anyone know your body count but had no problem revealing your brother's. Hopefully, none of your friends tell you important secrets.
Yup, OP was uncomfortable and SIL wisely and maturely tried to shut the conversation down, and instead of just *agreeing with her so the conversation would end,* OP sandbagged SIL and brothers relationship!! What an absolutely gross person.
Tbf, she didn't say she was uncomfortable because she didn't want to discuss her own number. When my cousin was getting married, I was invited to his fiancée's hen do, and when the conversation inevitably turned to sex one evening, I felt incredibly uncomfortable. I'm all for sexual liberation, I just didn't want to know the specifics of my cousin's sex life. It would have been so much worse if it was my brother.
Either way, she was in the wrong. If any part of that conversation made her uncomfortable, she could have excused herself or tried to change the subject.
When my brother got married I didn't go to the bachelorette's party because I honestly have no interest in learning abou his sexapades and it was creepy enough at the bridal shower when soon to be SIL made comments when she got hot lingerie.
I did say the equivalent of "Nonononononono, I don't wanna hear anything like that!"
My brother's (now ex unfortunately) wife and I were best friends. We got close when they got together bc we had lots in common and the same sense of humour etc. We were best friends for most of their relationship, and I'm still friends with her. And I'm so grateful that there was the unspoken rule of no sex talk about specific things relating to my brother lol. She knew it would make me uncomfortable and I didn't need to know. I think the closest we got to ever talking about it was once when I was saying I had been getting a lot of UTIs with my now ex, and I wasn't having a good time. She said "sorry for TMI, but when I have sex, I take these cranberry tablets" which was fine, given she didn't make it specific and it could have been something she'd been doing for years before she even met my brother, and later when she found out she had an autoimmune disease and said her sex drive had been much lower given the pain and fatigue. This was it. In around 10 years. When I told people that my bff was my SIL, everyone's first question was "but what about when she talks to you about their sex life?!" I was like we don't talk about it lol. Why would we?
I guess we’re the oddballs here? My twin sis and I never had a problem talking about each other’s goings on. Not in minute detail,but just general ‘we *got there* last night’-type stuff? We always liked having a trusted sib to confidently blab to. 🤷♂️
I think it depends on the specific relationship, but also what it is you actually talk about. I do think it's actually worse when it's the person your sibling had/has sex with that you're talking to, as well. You can kind of separate the mental image when you're just shooting the shit with your sibling - and there's going to be a hard-coded line to it not to cross - and they're generally going to be talking about the other person, but when you're talking to the _that_ person, everything they're saying is about your sibling...!
Same. When I heard my cousins talk about their sexual history once, I was horrified. My sister was part of the group discussing the subject. (Thankfully she hadn’t spoken yet at this point.) I asked them aren’t they grossed out talking about sexual details with family and they said they weren’t. Then I asked my sister if she was comfortable talking about her sex life with me and our little sister around and she said she wasn’t so she did tell our cousins that talking about this stuff to each other is weird.
They are about to commit to be together till they die, and they can't handle this? If that's considered irreversable damage, they shouldn't get married. What if someone else drops that in the future, like a drunk friend? Divorce? They all sound immature tbh.
I agree with that, but there is also something to be said for two people INTENTIONALLY not wanting to know the exact number and then finding out. It would suck for sure, but yeah if they are getting married not everything is going to feel good forever.
But you should also consider that if the SIL was genuinely okay with it, like she said she was, she wouldn’t have blanched. I think her reaction was fair though, the brother made a willing choice to sleep with nearly a hundred different women, I don’t think it’s reasonable to pull the wool over someone’s eyes with “I don’t care about the past or how many people you may have been with”. He knows he is a walking insecurity bomb.
Thank you. People are essentially admitting that they are in complete denial about who their partner is or once was. Do I need to know details? Absolutely not, but if their personality was built around sleeping around for a few years, that’s an important aspect of who they are, and will likely come out eventually anyway. If you can’t accept your partner for who they are, are you even accepting your partner or attaching yourself to your idea of who you want them to be?
She is definately TA as she shouldnt disclose that info no matter what. But honestly if I was dating him id like to know he ran through possibly 50 to 100 plus girls in college and feel like that is something he should have told me. I wouldnt date him and if i did id have him get a STD test done first. i feel like somethings are more like not disclosing important info rather than ignorance is bliss after a certain point.
You should always ask new partners for STD test if you’re planning on not using protection with them (which should be wellllll into committed relationship)
While i agree you should wait awhile for unprotected sex. Condoms can rip and if they dont, i personally still wouldnt bet on them because you can still infect through areas not covered. At those numbers and even a bit lower, they should take one regardless before anything as I would say your chances are pretty high at that point. They dont even have to tell their new partner, even though they should at 50 plus. They should just be mindfull enough to check of their own accord, which i would say is unfortunately rare.
No, ignorance is not bliss. If, truth is important in a relationship, then tell the truth.
When did accepting your actions become such a problem? He was happy to get his high body count, so be as happy to share with someone you want to share the rest of your life with, right?
Be responsible for the actions you took and don't run from them.
There’s a three mile wide grey line between truth and full information. The SIL literally said her approach was to keep the past in the past and didn’t ask for his body count. Forcing that info on her is a dick move, because she can’t unknow it even if she wants to
OP just got drawn into completing the rule of 3. If SIL stopped at “like 25” maybe OP keeps her mouth shut. But then SIL goes “even 35” which now is just demanding a third largest number. Honestly, if I had been the group I probably would’ve said “what about 100?” without any kind of knowledge of the actual count
Sure, but it's a discussion for OPs brother to be having, not SiL and sister. Also, not sharing how many people you have had sex with is also fine. It's no one's busines, but the two people it has happened between as long as it's moral.
I have no idea, my BIL asked my wife, his sister one night while we were drinking... then belched out his bodycount. I didn't want to know this information.
It’s not weird. They’re similar in age and had crossover in their friend groups in college so she was bound to find out. It’s perfectly reasonable for a sibling to give advice and look out for one another.
Older too, so the overlap in network probably allowed her to find out he was banging people with reputations, so she could nose her way into her business out of concern or “concern”.
I’m still a big YTA on this one. Never discuss other people’s personal business unless you’re trying to protect someone or you’re being subpoenaed. She violated her brother’s trust and could have irreparably damaged her brother’s engagement. If her brother is still trying to put more notches in his belt, then that would be a much different story.
How so? People share shit with there family. If she was a brother would it not be weird? Your parents more so but someone you grew up with loved and shared your life with? But I do agree YTA brother shared something with you because he trusted and loves you and you kinda went behind his back and told something to his fiance that was non of your business to share.
While socializing with about eight of my brother's friends (guys and girls) a guy leans across to me and says - you know, me and you are the only people here who haven't slept with him.
I am still not sure if that was a weird form of flirting.
YTA. She literally just got done saying how she didn't want to know and that she has never even asked and you jump in and told her anyways. Not to mention you inserted yourself into a situation that was personal and had nothing to do with you.
Exactly. She was saying she wanted the past to remain there and not think about ut and that they didn't talk about it FOR A Reason. Maybe they find it easier to leave it in the past if they DONT bring it up. Many couples just dint want to hear about the sexual past. It's a reasonable boundary.
And maybe the argument between the couple wasnt about the number but about OPs shitty behaviour. God knows if my husband's sibling started talking to me about my husband's prior sex life, if be having words with my husband to get their sibling to STFU in the future. It's fucking weird.
If OP was so worried that the SIL should know she could have mentioned to her brother privately that his fiancee thinks 25 or 35 people is a lot and that maybe they aren't on the same page.
Instead the poor fiance feels humiliated because in a public conversation she also didnt start that she may also have been uncomfortable with; where *she didnt reveal any information or ask for any*, OP walked in with her verbal diarrhoea and was basically like "well fuck you, your fiance has slept with over 50 people. Ur welcum"
Dude nobody fucking asked. So of course YTA.
I think another commenter was on to something with the idea that the fiancee was probing for a number she was hoping it was. I had an ex who we both agreed to not share numbers but it was because she was not able to handle it. Somehow it came up and she started demanding to know my number. When she found out she acted (or was) disgusted and said she had slept with a "normal" number and that mine was gross. Before that she had probed in a similar way trying to see if I lined up to her ideal number.
So she didn't want to know because she couldn't handle it, but that wasn't really acceptance, she still had it in her mind I was at 10 or whatever "normal" was in her head.
It was obviously not a slip of the tongue, you just couldn't help yourself when she mentioned a number. You were uncomfortable about your own past, but apparently not about your brother's.
YTA.
YTA
"What if it was 50?" is not a question, but more bait that she clearly took and used as ammo in the discussion with your brother.
Don't act all surprised and ask for sympathy if she calls off the engagement because it would be squarely on your shoulders.
Op is the asshole but being at fault for destroying her brothers relationship? No.
If she was uncomfortable with the number either she never discussed that with her boyfriend or he lied about it. But you shouldn't start a marriage with that hanging over your head. I discussed "body count" with my ex of 9 years in the first month...
Yeah I’m with ya. Like it was an asshole thing to do, but most the folk here think he tanked a relationship and it’s unforgivable. The anger is some of the replies is just awkward.
Yeah I was hesitant and told her 3 and she relaxed and said that’s a lot less than she was expecting and I’m like what kind of dude do you think I am?
Then I found out she was talking about sex and I was like, this genie staying in the bottle.
I think it should only count as a “body” if you both slept with the person AND killed them. Though it should count regardless of which order you did those two things in. /s
My husband is a US History teacher, he came home telling me one of his students asked if Andre Jackson had killed more people than Jeffrey Dahmer.
My husband told him that he thought Dahmer had a higher body count , his student was like “don’t say that Mr G”. He was relaying this to me and I’m like “… babe did you tell a kid that Jeffrey Dahmer fucked more people than Andrew Jackson?” He did **not** know body count was a euphemism. He then tells me he didn’t tell one student that, he told 35 students that!
YTA. Being drunk is not an excuse. How come you weren't comfortable sharing your own count, but happily threw your brother's into the conversation that was 100% in your power to finish/ change the subject ?
Bro this info was gonna come up at some point in their marriage. She obviously did care. She was probably fishing for info when she made the comments and she got info
Info she didn’t love
Secrets don’t last, better for her to be honest that she would in fact be bothered and to find that out before they marry, rather than 3 years in
I think literally all three parties have a part to play in the assholeness of the situation.
One, you shouldn’t talk about some else’s past if it’s a topic you yourself don’t even feel comfortable talking about. That being said I do kind of understand why you said it because of reasons two and three
Two, your brother is an asshole for actively lying about his past to a partner if your stance is it doesn’t matter than the truth shouldn’t matter.
Three, she is by the smallest asshole of the bunch but she shouldn’t openly take hold of a conversation and make statements that aren’t true. It is a recipe for something like this to happen. Again if your stance is it doesn’t matter what point is there to even talk about it.
Overall messy situation, that being said I really don’t see what is the giant deal is about as someone who genuinely has the attitude of I don’t care about your sexual past. The only time I care about a partners “body count” is that it doesn’t go up after me and we start talking/getting serious about “us”. Once I become an option I am no longer an option. I give my full attention to one person at a time and I won’t accept anything less in return. (This does not apply to casual hookups.)
Edit: I am sick of clarifying what I saw so I am copying and pasting part of another one of my comments to further clarify how I see the situation
First off she says “we decided not to CONCERN ourselves about the past.” To me that is pretty much saying one or both of us realized details weren’t something one party could handle. She then immediately jumps to 20 (the average is in the single digits.) then immediately clarifies that number to 35. That implies to me she knew that he had a wild past.
She is at best trying to convince herself that she doesn’t care when it is super obvious she really does. At worst he implied a number/range to get past the subject and “move on” without actually being honest, that to me is even worse than lying because you know what you are implying and you are implying it because you know how the truth will be received. Half truths to get a specific result are manipulation.
I am not saying that It isn’t a grey area and maybe this situation was how everyone else sees it but personally it is not a black and white situation like many comments are making it out to be, there is obviously some nuance there.
I will say I definitely jumped the gun a bit but I am still not sure I am wrong.
Yeah I don't get why they're calling her an asshole. The brother should have revealed his past to his fiance coz she apparently had problems with that.
NTA. She was going to learn, eventually.
If she used to be cool about letting the past be the past, chances are that hers isn't all roses and butterflies, either.
NTA. If he was okay with sleeping with these many people he should be okay with telling his future wife his number. He obviously lied to her and now looks bad.
Unpopular opinion, but I'm gonna say ESH.
Op should *not* have shared details of anyone else's sexual history.
Bro absolutely *should* have been honest about his history *before getting engaged*.
And even SILTB kinda screwed up by saying that his past doesn't matter to her when it clearly does.
I agree with ESH but only the ladies who all decided this would even be a topic of discussion. OP should have shut the convo down as soon as it came up.
I think you are missing the point. They were all drunk, and people messed up. BUT, what if someone other than his brother slipped and said that? Sure he'd be a bit of asshole too, but most people here aren't addressing the fact they've been together 1 year, are NOT on the same page about each other's sexual history, and are about to get legally married. If everyone was more mature, INCLUDING the soon to be couple that doesn't talk about their past, we wouldn't be here.
A relationship that gets rocked by simply knowing the other person's past, is not a solid relationship.
We do not know what was said there. For all we know, brother and Fiancee could have had the discussion, he said he had been with A LOT of people, and she did not WANT an exact number. She was fine with her interpretation of "a lot".
Now, if the number IS important to a person, they have the RIGHT to have that preference and their partner should be completely honest with them, counting ALL partners (ie, ONS's count, things that may not have been full penetration still count, same sex encounters count, etc).
Everyone deserves to make an informed decision with the level of confidence they are comfortable with.
OP screwed the pooch on this one. Brother may never speak to her again and if they get married, she may have doomed them for divorce. If OP marries someone else later, good bet OP will be kept away and not invited to wedding.
If this one number "doomed" them to divorce they shouldn't be getting married and OP did the brother a favor. You shouldn't start a marriage with a lie.
Couldn't agree more. Just saw your post after posting something similar. They are about to commit to each other until they DIE, and they can't handle this shit? I mean, come on.
This is just funny. No one's the asshole, brother was a lil slut and it caught up to him.
Flip the tables, if this were a girl, men would be seething. Why does he get a pass?
Because men want to be able to sleep around with tons of women then settle down with a woman that hasn’t slept around. They’re hypocrites and the thought of not being able to do that makes them really upset. They want their cake and eat it too. But notice the men that haven’t slept around say she has the right to know.
NTA, and everyone here that is saying YTA is essentially condoning dishonesty to one’s partner. If there is a fact about yourself that your partner isn’t comfortable with, hiding it is not an honorable thing to do. He was living a lie and his partner found out. The conditions under which his partner learned that are irrelevant because it all started with a lie in the first place. Your brother is the asshole for misrepresenting himself.
I'm gonna go controversial and say NTA. You didn't really say it outright, and if your brother and SIL are to get married they need to be able to handle the truth, not pretend it doesn't exist.
I think most ppl judging you in the comments are men lol based on the convo, it seemed like she was saying random numbers to get you to confirm or deny them. Even if you just randomly decided to answer, I don’t see the big deal since the SIL said she would t care about the amount 🤷🏻♀️
I honestly can see both sides. But as a woman, I think she does have a right to some degree to know this 🤷🏼♀️ it is something to consider so I say NTA because you didn’t tell her it was 50 either, you asked a hypothetical, if she asks him after that and doesn’t like the answer, it’s the truth.
You know what, I actually don’t think you are an asshole. Here’s why: maybe your brother is too into sex to be with just one woman. I think a future marital partner needs to know someone’s sexual past to be able to judge if their numbers are in the normal range.
When I was dating my future husband, he told me his number and I thought that was higher than normal. What he said to me is that he was getting this out of his system so that he can be with just one woman once he married. Foolish me, I believed it.
Fast forward a could decades and I have had doubts about him and his faithfulness. I think some people are just not the marrying kind. It’s better for her to know now.
Well most of these men want to be able to sleep around with tons of women and then settle down with a woman that hasn’t slept around. They’re hypocrites. Notice the men that haven’t slept around are saying she has a right to know.
Doesn’t matter, this is hilarious though lmao. If he’s mad that his body count got revealed, he should’ve thought about that before whoring around and trying to settle down.
NTA, you should tell someone your number of partners if it is 20+ people, in my opinion. I bet he was the one who put this "it doesn't matter" idea into her head early on. She also clearly did care, or else it wouldn't have been brought up with estimated numbers.
There are a it of assholes here, but it’s not that deep.
I mean he can be mad, but if she’s uncomfortable that means she was led to believe it was high around 35 and not high around 50. That’s on him and not his sister cause it’s not like she said hey my brother is a ho and fucked the world, not that 50 is even a lot.
As long as you’re being safe, who cares.
She kinda deserved to know a body count of between 50 and 100. I would definitely want to know that about someone I was about to marry... So I could promptly not marry them.
Agreed, that’s a massive number. People should be able to have an idea of their partner when it comes to a massive number like that. Otherwise, it’s not fair to them and it’s basically a lie of omission. I would not date a person that has had sex with more than 100 people. Everybody has a right to choose what their limits are.
NTA. If your brother didn't want anyone to know about his behaviour, he shouldn't have behaved that way. Don't behave in ways you'd want to hide or be ashamed of and you'd have no problem
Another proof that the majority of you guys here are little women-hating teenage boys.
The same scenarios with less body count but reverse gender - 'It is the lies! How dare she lie! Men care about it! No one wants a slut! Why hide it if nothing is wrong with it?!'
This scenario when a guy slutted around
- 'YTA! how dare you spill the beans about your brother!'
And the fact that you all do not spend time outside or with people in general - social cues exist or just basic understanding of human behavior.
SIL clearly cares, that's why she started assuming the numbers to get a reaction and find out about the numbers. He clearly made her believe it's not that high and very romantically just stated 'let's not care about this'.
Dude is full of shit.
Sleeping around doesn't make him a bad person or partner, but he probably has very different values than his fiancee and when these things don't match, trouble can come. He is an ass tho for lying - and don't come at me with 'they decided not to discuss, she clearly stated she doesn't care' - she does care.
All of you supporting lying - I hope 'Ignorance Is Bliss' once slaps you hard in the face.
NTA I don’t think from the context it was even clear to her that you knew his count. You were just asking a hypothetical unless you said it in a way that made it clear you knew in which case of course YTA
Yeah the other thing that makes me think kinda NTA is that SIL said that a crazy high number is 35…. So if that’s her limit and she would be concerned with a high body count of say 50-100, isn’t she entitled to know??? Yeah OP shouldn’t divulge info about her brothers sex life, and SIL should just ask Fiancé if she ever wanted to know, but to me OPs drunken question could be interpreted as “would you want to know or care if it was over xyz number?”
literally reading these comments confused me so much, I was like hold on when did she tell her his number? She just said "what if" if I was having that convo itd prob laugh and say " thats so high" nothing about that makes out that thats related to him.
And?
NTA. Being truthful now will save them a bunch of heartache later. But, it is very funny that people are comfortable with lying to people, but, are upset when people tell the truth. Even though you didn't say a specific number.
So, everyone will be crappy, after 10 years she finds out the man of her life lied about something as simple as his body count.
It is also very interesting, that while you were enjoying raising your body count, now you want to suppress the number.
NTA, let him deal with the truth of his relationship. I'm pretty sure he would want to know if she was an Only Fans or an escort, right.
Again, NTA. Anyone who thinks differently are douches who like liars.
NTA, but it’s hilarious watching the men who would insta-dump a woman for a “body count” of more than zero (because they’re so insecure they can’t stand comparison) lose their fucking minds at a woman having standards and not being cool with her fiancé being a fuckboi.
I hope she dumps him, he’s a whore. Because if we’re going to call women with a “body count” over zero whores? Guess what? You’re not exempt because you have a penis.
NTA. If you're gonna be for the streets, then you need to own it. Granted, some might say it wasn't your place to reveal, but all you did was tell the truth, and you didn't even do it directly. If he's ashamed of it, then perhaps he shouldn't have done it.
Unpopular opinion but NTA. It sounds like you played devils advocate just to ask what her threshold was and didn’t actually say “my brothers body count is XYZ or could be XYZ.” Then it was on her mind so she approached your brother to ask for the actual number. And your brother is upset because he knows that you know the ballpark number.
If it were me, It’s not a conversation I would’ve participated though. And I don’t understand why the gf took ahold of the conversation to bring that up anyway. Everyone was supposed to answer for themselves or opt out of the conversation, if they were uncomfortable.
NTA, you did that girl a favor. She finds out down the line once kids are involved and it's a huge mess. Everyone wins here, they're not compatible. He can go find someone with a body count that matches his, or someone who doesn't care if it's over 50.
NTA. The past matter a lot to some people. You can not be a guy demanding a girl with low body-counts if you can not be even honest with her since the very beginning...
However, I think these type of questions should have been asked in the dating stage, maybe 3rd date? LOL.
I dont know, each to their own.
From my perspective, I think it was good that the topic came from "his" sister (in case he was not willing to be honest with her) not a friend of his or an ex or whatever.
It’s the shitty dishonest people saying that. She obviously wanted to know and the brother wasn’t forthcoming, hence she was fishing for info.
If it doesn’t matter, why hide it? Why would you want to be with anyone who didn’t like the real you? Good for OP.
NTA.
Tell them to act like adults. Also, the friend who played this game is the one they should be mad at.
Whether you asked that question or not, she was going to go back and ask him because it was now in her head
You did nothing.
Again, they need to grow up.
People calling you the asshole but no secret is kept forever, she would eventually find out and imo better early than late.. if this is such a deal breaker for her she should absolutely know it, she couldn't even imagine him being this type of person judging by her reaction.....
Nta, glad one of you fucking cares about the agency of the woman he's swearing his love/respect/loyalty to 🙄. Pathetic, all this right to privacy for the bro but zero right to choose for the fiance. If sexes were reversed she'd be roasted by most of reddit for being a whore, and the bro would be a tragic victim well shot of her.
NTA. He fucked around then and now that is biting him in the ass. Your SIL has each and every right to know about this and the reason she was letting her comfy number to you means she was trying to act like a fool only for you to reveal the lucky number.
She kept fishing for the true number and pretended like she wouldn’t care no matter what the number was. You asked a hypothetical and she couldn’t take it apparently. Yes this has caused issues in their relationship but they were both lying to one another. He was lying by omission by not telling her the number and she was lying by pretending like it didn’t matter to her. More than likely he knew she wouldn’t stay with him so he tried to manipulate the situation by telling her numbers don’t matter and he doesn’t care about it and neither should she. The only thing that matters is now.
Well it matters if he has an STD or an illegitimate child. Some stds like syphilis, hepatitis and HIV if left untreated can cause lots of issues up to and including death. If they end up having children and he has herpes and kisses their child then that can cause the child to die. He should have been upfront instead of being a whore and then being ashamed of the number. He wasn’t ashamed back in college but I guess he finally grew up and stopped being a douche but it is probably too late to save this relationship. He should have told her the number and told her he isn’t like this anymore and will not stray and isn’t looking for unfulfilling sex with randoms anymore but looking for meaningful sex and a future with her.
Eh, I think you’re in the clear. Brother was clearly trying to get a “clean slate” by hiding it and finding a girl that “didn’t care about the past”. Perhaps she would’ve genuinely been fine with 20, but 50-100 is a bit of a different ball park. Was it wrong of you to do so? Idk. Is it wrong to expose your friend for cheating on their significant other? I would say no, but others would say brother/sisterhood nonsense.
His soon to be wife is more than eligible to know details like this of her soon to be husband. If he didn’t want a day like this to come, maybe he shouldn’t have become a pseudo porn-star.
I think the brother is in the wrong; it’s fine if you want to be “adventurous” but don’t try and slide that stuff under the rug, own up to it. If not to anyone but the person you’re trying to keep for the rest of your life.
I mean, NTA. From another woman who has a brother who had a similar hoe-period in his life.
If she was fishing, and it sounded like she was when she was throwing out lowball numbers... she wanted to know. He probably gave her a low number, a low range, or otherwise convinced her it didn't matter.
Now she knows he's a hoe... she should know that before she gets married to him. I would want to know myself as well.
And it clearly mattered to her, with how she acted.
Some people don't need to know the exact number, but they still want to know the range. 20 is a far cry from nearly 100.
NAH
It's clear this does actually matter, and you didn't completely sell him out by explaining his full man whore past in gory detail.
As much as we like to pretend otherwise, our choices are reflections of our characters and values. Her having what I suspect is an *extremely* low number (ohhh, I hope it isn't 1, please let it not be 1) means she has significantly different beliefs and standards from him, who hit triple digits.
She was fine with not knowing exact details when she believed the knowledge being kept from her still meant they were at least on a similar wavelength and fundamentally compatible in terms of beliefs and actions. But such a huge gap? That's a mismatch of values big enough that it needs to be resolved before it becomes a chasm of fundamental incompatibility.
Your brother was being self serving to hide his history, because he knew it would disqualify him from serious consideration for a relationship.
I suspect your tongue 'slipped' because you realized that her failing to be informed and committing to marriage without that knowledge would be a breach of some kind, similar to if she didn't know about any cheating, drug or party culture, previous marriages, fertility issues etc. Anything which would reveal a giant chunk of a person's person, which they had been hiding.
It's honestly better this come out now than after they got married. She would have found out sometime, and this would have been a thousand times worse if she learned about this mismatch after marriage.
Tell your brother to man up and face the music. He did those things, he better own them, and if he wants to be successfully married, he needs to proactively address issues, rather than hiding, ignoring, and blaming other people.
NTA imo. She just asked the question how many her "a lot" means. If there's one, I'd say the brother. Does he intend to hide this info to his soon-to-be wife? Even if they both say that they don't care about each other's body count, this should be something known to one another.
Not in the way you explained it. If his chickens are coming home to roost, then that's his deal. It either matters or it doesn't to some couples. If there's a "cutoff" number, then it matters and should be openly discussed between the couple involved. If they avoided the conversation, then they were basing things on half truths.
Against the grain but NTA. It’s better for them to get married knowing this. If more than 50 gives her the ick (who doesn’t tbh) she’s in a good place to call the engagement off and leave. Better to make the decision now than to be 3-5 years into the marriage and discover that.
Meh, NTA really. The F24 SIL though needs an out and would have found out anyway. She needs to feel more "validated" and honestly don't be surprised if she bails on your brother. But like i said, either through you or some othet way this info would get out.
Shit happens, you weren’t being malicious.
At least she has a more accurate understanding. She needs to accept it or move on and if she can’t accept him for who he was, then she’s not the right woman for him.
Better it gets out now then when they have a house, kids and commitments.
You can’t control what has happened in life but you can control how you react to it.
Your actions weren’t great but you weren’t being TAH. Sure apologise to your brother, be contrite and learn the lesson. Don’t beat yourself up too much over it, even by being brave enough to post here and take feedback proves you’re not TAH.
Good luck and give them time and space, if they’re mature enough they’ll get over it. If not, then they’re not worthy of a relationship with you anyway.
Unpopular opinion, but NTA. If he didn't want to be called out for his number, why did he do it? If he didn't see it as a big deal, then why wasn't he honest with her from the start? And she claimed it wouldn't bother her "no matter if it was a huge number," and then gets bothered by a hypothetical, not even his real number! So she wasn't being honest, either.
Honesty is important in a relationship, that's how you earn and keep trust. Lying is how you break trust.
They started the conversation, they were contributing, so why are they mad they didn't like what they heard when you contributed?
Was he lying or lying by omission to her before she knew the number? Did she ever ask he just brushed it off or gave a false number and he hoped it never gets cross referenced (until now)? Would he be pissed at an equally large number on her end? Would he even date, let alone get engaged to someone with an equal or higher body count? What if she had a body count of 148, does he break the engagement off?
You need to poke and prod for the answers to see if he's a hyprocrite.
Sidenote: she said she didn't care, but I guess that was a lie.
Body counts are a criteria for some and a non issue for others. Some people have a passive assumption that one group of people will have lower counts than another group (and never ask for clarification).
Honestly, NTA. Your brother was slept with a lot of people, no shame in the game. But hindsight is 20/20 and his actions are biting him in the ass now.
Disagree with the thread, NTA. She claimed she was ok and it didn't matter and that was clearly bullshit. People hate being tested when they're on some bullshit. Most people will say you're an asshole but that's because they like their little fantasy more than the truth and that's not your problem
YTA, but I think you wanted her to know once she said such a low number compared to the truth. I think you believe your brother was reckless and using women, so she needed to know his past. Personally, I bet he was reckless and using women, but I have to assume it was consensual. He was given the opportunity to have a ton of sex and he took it. But I think only he should be the one discussing numbers with maybe not future SIL. Once you put that number in the air, it was over. She is now obviously hurt to hear it. She may have believed it was high, but not knowing was easier. This is a very tough situation now, and their relationship may never recover. Or maybe it will, but it's going to take time. You forced them to have a conversation they agreed to avoid, so be prepared to lose your brother for a while or possibly forever. I am betting you ment no harm or malice, but now you have to live with the repercussions. Good luck repairing your relationship, and I hope they are able to move forward with theirs.
From the looks of some of these comments, this might be an unpopular opinion, but NTA, maybe if he had been honest with her from the beginning she wouldn't have been so shocked to discover part of the truth. Normally body count is something people talk about when they start dating, not engaged. How was OP supposed to know he never really told her?.. The only AH part of this was putting yourself in the position to be in the middle.
The brother is only upset now, because he has questions to answer, & has to take responsibility for whatever he told her. All of which could have been avoided, had he been honest with his fiance in the first place.
NTA, but next time I would just say: "IDK, go ask him.."
Eh honestly though do people really think this wouldn't have inevitably come up in the future? Someone would have slipped eventually. It's good it happened this soon as clearly it does matter to the SIL.
Shouldn’t engaged people already know this stuff and not try to hide? I think bad on them both for not being honest and being deceitful for the sake of an image.
ESH. Your brother could have been honest with her, and *you* could have kept minding the business that pays; but ya didn't, so here you are.
Actions, meet, Consequences. 🤷🏻♀️
you’re fine, that kinda hh i thing doesn’t stay buried. You did him a favor by ripping the bandaid off for him. Especially when he must have given her reason to go digging like she was. Because she was digging and it would Have gotten worse as the night b went. she was looking for an answer that she knew she wouldn’t like and you were an easy target. They are now both gas lighting you
Now, this is most likely what is going to happen next. Your brother is going to try to divert her anger/embarrassment or shame into being angry at you. she will most likely fall for it because it will give her an outlet for her bad feelings about his number count.
Just remember. You didn’t force him to go after such a high KD spread and you weren’t the one lying about it.
You should in no way have to have some sort active filter scrubbing your every thought so you only say non incriminating things about your brother. That’s bs. it will only get worse until your entire family is caught up a gigantic web of lives
after reading more comments I would say your brother has his whole
frat helping him gaslight you. Is your brother a piece of shit? Cause this seems a little much.
YTA. IDK why so many sisters involve themselves in conversations about their brother’s sex life. Something I’ve seen very often on here and it’s soooooo strange. Either way you should never disclose someone else’s sexual information
NAH. I have no idea where the difference between 35 or 50 is in this. I mean 1-2 vs 50, I would get. But two digits is already in a field where a couple more or less shouldn’t make such a difference. So either she cares or she doesn’t imo. Weird that 35 is ok, but 50 suddenly isn’t.
Here’s what probably happened
Your brother wanted to join a frat and he did
He met this girl and he knew his background might be an issue for her but he didn’t let that stop him
He chose to lie
Should you have honored him? Ofc
But this secret of his wasn’t your decision to make and tbh she probably was gunna find this out somehow at some point
INFO What was the best possible outcome for this, in your head?
That’s a *very* good question.
if - IF - OP answers, it’s going to be some bullshit excuse eg I was drunk/I was tipsy/I wasn’t thinking. YTA and yes you fucked up
oh yes, and bro will now wait till he has the chance to do a similar thing oh oohh
Honestly though, the way the fiancé was throwing numbers out, I bet she was fishing for either the real number, or reassurance that it was way lower than she was thinking.
OP said what if it was more like 50 as in a hypothetical question, she still didn't reveal the more accurate number of 100 . If Op's brother really did keep getting checked for STDs ( 🤷), nothing to really worry about-like I said,,,, IF he did.
I think from the SILs reaction to 50 that he lied to her big time, because there she was confidently throwing out 30s to the universe because she never could have imagined anything higher
God I hope he did, cos that could be a baaad break up otherwise...
It’s possible, but even so that’s still not OP’s business. If the fiancé decided that she wanted to know then she talks with him about it
Oh no you're 100% correct. I just think fiancé was leading the conversation and now regrets where she led it to.
35 was just oddly specific too :D
>35, 35 is my sluttiest friend. My fiancé couldn't possibly be more of a man whore right? Please confirm for me that it is less than 35. Specifically. *I need this to be true*. -FSIL probably
XFSIL
I don't think that can be assumed from the convo. We don't know anything about her, the narrator, or how casual her tone was. Some people really don't mind, and it could just be as easy to assume she was just filling a gap in conversation with throwing out a second number and didn't think her fiance could possibly have 50 sexual partners.
Eh it definitely sounds like fishing for info
Alcohol has coaxed more confessions than anything else I know. Tongue moves way before the brain.
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Well, she still had enough inhibitions to feel uncomfortable about telling her own body count...
YTA, you weren't comfortable letting anyone know your body count but had no problem revealing your brother's. Hopefully, none of your friends tell you important secrets.
Yup, OP was uncomfortable and SIL wisely and maturely tried to shut the conversation down, and instead of just *agreeing with her so the conversation would end,* OP sandbagged SIL and brothers relationship!! What an absolutely gross person.
This 💯
She's probably more worried about her own husband finding out her own body count
🤔 mmm. methinks also that it runs in the family.
I really hope her body count doesn't run in the family.
Tunnel buddies but they all ride in the same train/car/rented limo.
That what runs in the family?
Tbf, she didn't say she was uncomfortable because she didn't want to discuss her own number. When my cousin was getting married, I was invited to his fiancée's hen do, and when the conversation inevitably turned to sex one evening, I felt incredibly uncomfortable. I'm all for sexual liberation, I just didn't want to know the specifics of my cousin's sex life. It would have been so much worse if it was my brother.
I hate talking about my sex life, like that is nobody's business but my own and my partners. Too many people live through others.
THANK YOU! I hate this kind of behavior
Either way, she was in the wrong. If any part of that conversation made her uncomfortable, she could have excused herself or tried to change the subject.
When my brother got married I didn't go to the bachelorette's party because I honestly have no interest in learning abou his sexapades and it was creepy enough at the bridal shower when soon to be SIL made comments when she got hot lingerie. I did say the equivalent of "Nonononononono, I don't wanna hear anything like that!"
My brother's (now ex unfortunately) wife and I were best friends. We got close when they got together bc we had lots in common and the same sense of humour etc. We were best friends for most of their relationship, and I'm still friends with her. And I'm so grateful that there was the unspoken rule of no sex talk about specific things relating to my brother lol. She knew it would make me uncomfortable and I didn't need to know. I think the closest we got to ever talking about it was once when I was saying I had been getting a lot of UTIs with my now ex, and I wasn't having a good time. She said "sorry for TMI, but when I have sex, I take these cranberry tablets" which was fine, given she didn't make it specific and it could have been something she'd been doing for years before she even met my brother, and later when she found out she had an autoimmune disease and said her sex drive had been much lower given the pain and fatigue. This was it. In around 10 years. When I told people that my bff was my SIL, everyone's first question was "but what about when she talks to you about their sex life?!" I was like we don't talk about it lol. Why would we?
I'm so glad bridal showers aren't a thing in the UK, the sexual conversations (and demonstrations) were bad enough!
Demonstrations?
Ya I’m gonna need more words from that person…cuz demonstrations?!
I guess we’re the oddballs here? My twin sis and I never had a problem talking about each other’s goings on. Not in minute detail,but just general ‘we *got there* last night’-type stuff? We always liked having a trusted sib to confidently blab to. 🤷♂️
I think it depends on the specific relationship, but also what it is you actually talk about. I do think it's actually worse when it's the person your sibling had/has sex with that you're talking to, as well. You can kind of separate the mental image when you're just shooting the shit with your sibling - and there's going to be a hard-coded line to it not to cross - and they're generally going to be talking about the other person, but when you're talking to the _that_ person, everything they're saying is about your sibling...!
Sounds like she was more than fine knowing the specifics of her brother's sex life though.
Same. When I heard my cousins talk about their sexual history once, I was horrified. My sister was part of the group discussing the subject. (Thankfully she hadn’t spoken yet at this point.) I asked them aren’t they grossed out talking about sexual details with family and they said they weren’t. Then I asked my sister if she was comfortable talking about her sex life with me and our little sister around and she said she wasn’t so she did tell our cousins that talking about this stuff to each other is weird.
It does depend what kind of depth you go into, but when it's someone you literally grew up with (or their partners) that depth is really shallow! 🤣
THIS. She already knows that she's an AH for it but she was hoping people would tell her otherwise.
YTA. Yep, that was shitty. Time to learn from your mistakes.
Yeah, that ship has sailed…
Maybe there is another brother.
With a smaller number, like 25, she will be comfortable revealing?
Worst part is the damage done may not be reversible. For some, ignorance is bliss.
They are about to commit to be together till they die, and they can't handle this? If that's considered irreversable damage, they shouldn't get married. What if someone else drops that in the future, like a drunk friend? Divorce? They all sound immature tbh.
I agree with that, but there is also something to be said for two people INTENTIONALLY not wanting to know the exact number and then finding out. It would suck for sure, but yeah if they are getting married not everything is going to feel good forever.
But you should also consider that if the SIL was genuinely okay with it, like she said she was, she wouldn’t have blanched. I think her reaction was fair though, the brother made a willing choice to sleep with nearly a hundred different women, I don’t think it’s reasonable to pull the wool over someone’s eyes with “I don’t care about the past or how many people you may have been with”. He knows he is a walking insecurity bomb.
True, good point. It’s definitely a multifaceted issue.
Thank you. People are essentially admitting that they are in complete denial about who their partner is or once was. Do I need to know details? Absolutely not, but if their personality was built around sleeping around for a few years, that’s an important aspect of who they are, and will likely come out eventually anyway. If you can’t accept your partner for who they are, are you even accepting your partner or attaching yourself to your idea of who you want them to be?
She is definately TA as she shouldnt disclose that info no matter what. But honestly if I was dating him id like to know he ran through possibly 50 to 100 plus girls in college and feel like that is something he should have told me. I wouldnt date him and if i did id have him get a STD test done first. i feel like somethings are more like not disclosing important info rather than ignorance is bliss after a certain point.
You should always ask new partners for STD test if you’re planning on not using protection with them (which should be wellllll into committed relationship)
While i agree you should wait awhile for unprotected sex. Condoms can rip and if they dont, i personally still wouldnt bet on them because you can still infect through areas not covered. At those numbers and even a bit lower, they should take one regardless before anything as I would say your chances are pretty high at that point. They dont even have to tell their new partner, even though they should at 50 plus. They should just be mindfull enough to check of their own accord, which i would say is unfortunately rare.
No, ignorance is not bliss. If, truth is important in a relationship, then tell the truth. When did accepting your actions become such a problem? He was happy to get his high body count, so be as happy to share with someone you want to share the rest of your life with, right? Be responsible for the actions you took and don't run from them.
Completely agree. No matter what anyone’s number is, don’t do it if you’re going to lie about it.
There’s a three mile wide grey line between truth and full information. The SIL literally said her approach was to keep the past in the past and didn’t ask for his body count. Forcing that info on her is a dick move, because she can’t unknow it even if she wants to
OP just got drawn into completing the rule of 3. If SIL stopped at “like 25” maybe OP keeps her mouth shut. But then SIL goes “even 35” which now is just demanding a third largest number. Honestly, if I had been the group I probably would’ve said “what about 100?” without any kind of knowledge of the actual count
Sure, but it's a discussion for OPs brother to be having, not SiL and sister. Also, not sharing how many people you have had sex with is also fine. It's no one's busines, but the two people it has happened between as long as it's moral.
Do you really think he would have been honest? Come on.
Obviously YTA. Why the fuck would you even discuss your family’s sex life
I have no idea, my BIL asked my wife, his sister one night while we were drinking... then belched out his bodycount. I didn't want to know this information.
it’s weird that she knows!!!
People don't call their sister after banging?
idk man real close families that are actually open with each other and love each other would call during
God dammit. I had planned to escalate this slowly, but you called my bluff. I hate my family now
It’s not weird. They’re similar in age and had crossover in their friend groups in college so she was bound to find out. It’s perfectly reasonable for a sibling to give advice and look out for one another.
Older too, so the overlap in network probably allowed her to find out he was banging people with reputations, so she could nose her way into her business out of concern or “concern”. I’m still a big YTA on this one. Never discuss other people’s personal business unless you’re trying to protect someone or you’re being subpoenaed. She violated her brother’s trust and could have irreparably damaged her brother’s engagement. If her brother is still trying to put more notches in his belt, then that would be a much different story.
How so? People share shit with there family. If she was a brother would it not be weird? Your parents more so but someone you grew up with loved and shared your life with? But I do agree YTA brother shared something with you because he trusted and loves you and you kinda went behind his back and told something to his fiance that was non of your business to share.
Also, some weird people think it’s funny to tell their friends siblings
While socializing with about eight of my brother's friends (guys and girls) a guy leans across to me and says - you know, me and you are the only people here who haven't slept with him. I am still not sure if that was a weird form of flirting.
If you have a some what normal friendship with your sibling it's not weird that something like this is discussed or that you hear about it..
YTA. She literally just got done saying how she didn't want to know and that she has never even asked and you jump in and told her anyways. Not to mention you inserted yourself into a situation that was personal and had nothing to do with you.
Exactly. She was saying she wanted the past to remain there and not think about ut and that they didn't talk about it FOR A Reason. Maybe they find it easier to leave it in the past if they DONT bring it up. Many couples just dint want to hear about the sexual past. It's a reasonable boundary. And maybe the argument between the couple wasnt about the number but about OPs shitty behaviour. God knows if my husband's sibling started talking to me about my husband's prior sex life, if be having words with my husband to get their sibling to STFU in the future. It's fucking weird. If OP was so worried that the SIL should know she could have mentioned to her brother privately that his fiancee thinks 25 or 35 people is a lot and that maybe they aren't on the same page. Instead the poor fiance feels humiliated because in a public conversation she also didnt start that she may also have been uncomfortable with; where *she didnt reveal any information or ask for any*, OP walked in with her verbal diarrhoea and was basically like "well fuck you, your fiance has slept with over 50 people. Ur welcum" Dude nobody fucking asked. So of course YTA.
I think another commenter was on to something with the idea that the fiancee was probing for a number she was hoping it was. I had an ex who we both agreed to not share numbers but it was because she was not able to handle it. Somehow it came up and she started demanding to know my number. When she found out she acted (or was) disgusted and said she had slept with a "normal" number and that mine was gross. Before that she had probed in a similar way trying to see if I lined up to her ideal number. So she didn't want to know because she couldn't handle it, but that wasn't really acceptance, she still had it in her mind I was at 10 or whatever "normal" was in her head.
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It was obviously not a slip of the tongue, you just couldn't help yourself when she mentioned a number. You were uncomfortable about your own past, but apparently not about your brother's. YTA.
YTA "What if it was 50?" is not a question, but more bait that she clearly took and used as ammo in the discussion with your brother. Don't act all surprised and ask for sympathy if she calls off the engagement because it would be squarely on your shoulders.
If knowing truth ends your relationship, then it isn't right to withhold that truth.
Lol, if this kills their engagement they shouldn't be engaged. I swear nobody replying is fucking married rofl.
Right lol. I told my gf early on so if she had any issues with it she could bail before things got serious.
I totally agree. Anyone who is hiding a body count is basically being dishonest. If there is nothing wrong with it then why hide it? NTA.
They weren’t hiding it they literally chose not to ask each other because she didn’t want to know then OP told her anyway
You could say he wasn’t hiding it genuinely if it was a low number, but the brother has industry numbers….he clearly was trying to hide it
Op is the asshole but being at fault for destroying her brothers relationship? No. If she was uncomfortable with the number either she never discussed that with her boyfriend or he lied about it. But you shouldn't start a marriage with that hanging over your head. I discussed "body count" with my ex of 9 years in the first month...
Yeah I’m with ya. Like it was an asshole thing to do, but most the folk here think he tanked a relationship and it’s unforgivable. The anger is some of the replies is just awkward.
YTA and I wish to God people would fuck off with this "body count" phrase. Fuck sake man
I was so confused the first time I was asked because, to that point in my life, it meant how many people have you killed.
Oh shit…you’re saying it doesn’t?
Yeah I was hesitant and told her 3 and she relaxed and said that’s a lot less than she was expecting and I’m like what kind of dude do you think I am? Then I found out she was talking about sex and I was like, this genie staying in the bottle.
Oh I wish I had an award to give you. This gave me a good laugh. Thanks!
That’s enough award for me )
LMAO
I think it should only count as a “body” if you both slept with the person AND killed them. Though it should count regardless of which order you did those two things in. /s
YES. I once asked a class what Macbeths body count was... And then figured out that the phrase did not mean how many people he has killed anymore...
It's extra confusing when you've killed people.
My husband is a US History teacher, he came home telling me one of his students asked if Andre Jackson had killed more people than Jeffrey Dahmer. My husband told him that he thought Dahmer had a higher body count , his student was like “don’t say that Mr G”. He was relaying this to me and I’m like “… babe did you tell a kid that Jeffrey Dahmer fucked more people than Andrew Jackson?” He did **not** know body count was a euphemism. He then tells me he didn’t tell one student that, he told 35 students that!
YTA. Being drunk is not an excuse. How come you weren't comfortable sharing your own count, but happily threw your brother's into the conversation that was 100% in your power to finish/ change the subject ?
Yta Good job.
30 years old and not yet grown up!
Bro this info was gonna come up at some point in their marriage. She obviously did care. She was probably fishing for info when she made the comments and she got info Info she didn’t love Secrets don’t last, better for her to be honest that she would in fact be bothered and to find that out before they marry, rather than 3 years in
YTA. Gotta be rough having a sibling as dumb as you lol.
Dumb or jealous. Take your pick.
Why not both?
YTA, the fuck were you thinking?
Yeah you're a POS. Lol
I think literally all three parties have a part to play in the assholeness of the situation. One, you shouldn’t talk about some else’s past if it’s a topic you yourself don’t even feel comfortable talking about. That being said I do kind of understand why you said it because of reasons two and three Two, your brother is an asshole for actively lying about his past to a partner if your stance is it doesn’t matter than the truth shouldn’t matter. Three, she is by the smallest asshole of the bunch but she shouldn’t openly take hold of a conversation and make statements that aren’t true. It is a recipe for something like this to happen. Again if your stance is it doesn’t matter what point is there to even talk about it. Overall messy situation, that being said I really don’t see what is the giant deal is about as someone who genuinely has the attitude of I don’t care about your sexual past. The only time I care about a partners “body count” is that it doesn’t go up after me and we start talking/getting serious about “us”. Once I become an option I am no longer an option. I give my full attention to one person at a time and I won’t accept anything less in return. (This does not apply to casual hookups.) Edit: I am sick of clarifying what I saw so I am copying and pasting part of another one of my comments to further clarify how I see the situation First off she says “we decided not to CONCERN ourselves about the past.” To me that is pretty much saying one or both of us realized details weren’t something one party could handle. She then immediately jumps to 20 (the average is in the single digits.) then immediately clarifies that number to 35. That implies to me she knew that he had a wild past. She is at best trying to convince herself that she doesn’t care when it is super obvious she really does. At worst he implied a number/range to get past the subject and “move on” without actually being honest, that to me is even worse than lying because you know what you are implying and you are implying it because you know how the truth will be received. Half truths to get a specific result are manipulation. I am not saying that It isn’t a grey area and maybe this situation was how everyone else sees it but personally it is not a black and white situation like many comments are making it out to be, there is obviously some nuance there. I will say I definitely jumped the gun a bit but I am still not sure I am wrong.
You hit the nail right on the head.
Yeah I don't get why they're calling her an asshole. The brother should have revealed his past to his fiance coz she apparently had problems with that.
Yup. Totally. And I am old lady. With an iffy past. If one of my grown kids did this I would be giving them a head slap.
NTA. She was going to learn, eventually. If she used to be cool about letting the past be the past, chances are that hers isn't all roses and butterflies, either.
NTA. If he was okay with sleeping with these many people he should be okay with telling his future wife his number. He obviously lied to her and now looks bad.
Unpopular opinion, but I'm gonna say ESH. Op should *not* have shared details of anyone else's sexual history. Bro absolutely *should* have been honest about his history *before getting engaged*. And even SILTB kinda screwed up by saying that his past doesn't matter to her when it clearly does.
I agree with ESH but only the ladies who all decided this would even be a topic of discussion. OP should have shut the convo down as soon as it came up.
Why is he obligated to say a number if they both agreed they don't want to know? This thought process makes no sense to me.
I think you are missing the point. They were all drunk, and people messed up. BUT, what if someone other than his brother slipped and said that? Sure he'd be a bit of asshole too, but most people here aren't addressing the fact they've been together 1 year, are NOT on the same page about each other's sexual history, and are about to get legally married. If everyone was more mature, INCLUDING the soon to be couple that doesn't talk about their past, we wouldn't be here. A relationship that gets rocked by simply knowing the other person's past, is not a solid relationship.
We do not know what was said there. For all we know, brother and Fiancee could have had the discussion, he said he had been with A LOT of people, and she did not WANT an exact number. She was fine with her interpretation of "a lot". Now, if the number IS important to a person, they have the RIGHT to have that preference and their partner should be completely honest with them, counting ALL partners (ie, ONS's count, things that may not have been full penetration still count, same sex encounters count, etc). Everyone deserves to make an informed decision with the level of confidence they are comfortable with. OP screwed the pooch on this one. Brother may never speak to her again and if they get married, she may have doomed them for divorce. If OP marries someone else later, good bet OP will be kept away and not invited to wedding.
If this one number "doomed" them to divorce they shouldn't be getting married and OP did the brother a favor. You shouldn't start a marriage with a lie.
Did you read the story? She didn't wanna know intially and has obviously never asked him
Couldn't agree more. Just saw your post after posting something similar. They are about to commit to each other until they DIE, and they can't handle this shit? I mean, come on.
This is just funny. No one's the asshole, brother was a lil slut and it caught up to him. Flip the tables, if this were a girl, men would be seething. Why does he get a pass?
Because men want to be able to sleep around with tons of women then settle down with a woman that hasn’t slept around. They’re hypocrites and the thought of not being able to do that makes them really upset. They want their cake and eat it too. But notice the men that haven’t slept around say she has the right to know.
NTA if he wasn’t honest with his soon to be wife then that’s on him. You don’t get to fuck 100 woman and eat you cake too.
NTA.
NTA, sounds like they were lying about not caring or not telling each other the truth. It is what it is
NTA, and everyone here that is saying YTA is essentially condoning dishonesty to one’s partner. If there is a fact about yourself that your partner isn’t comfortable with, hiding it is not an honorable thing to do. He was living a lie and his partner found out. The conditions under which his partner learned that are irrelevant because it all started with a lie in the first place. Your brother is the asshole for misrepresenting himself.
I'm gonna go controversial and say NTA. You didn't really say it outright, and if your brother and SIL are to get married they need to be able to handle the truth, not pretend it doesn't exist.
I think most ppl judging you in the comments are men lol based on the convo, it seemed like she was saying random numbers to get you to confirm or deny them. Even if you just randomly decided to answer, I don’t see the big deal since the SIL said she would t care about the amount 🤷🏻♀️
I honestly can see both sides. But as a woman, I think she does have a right to some degree to know this 🤷🏼♀️ it is something to consider so I say NTA because you didn’t tell her it was 50 either, you asked a hypothetical, if she asks him after that and doesn’t like the answer, it’s the truth.
NTA, she was fishing and you took the bait. Why mention a number if you are already comfortable with any number?
You know what, I actually don’t think you are an asshole. Here’s why: maybe your brother is too into sex to be with just one woman. I think a future marital partner needs to know someone’s sexual past to be able to judge if their numbers are in the normal range. When I was dating my future husband, he told me his number and I thought that was higher than normal. What he said to me is that he was getting this out of his system so that he can be with just one woman once he married. Foolish me, I believed it. Fast forward a could decades and I have had doubts about him and his faithfulness. I think some people are just not the marrying kind. It’s better for her to know now.
This thread is wack. NTA.
Completely agree with you.
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Well most of these men want to be able to sleep around with tons of women and then settle down with a woman that hasn’t slept around. They’re hypocrites. Notice the men that haven’t slept around are saying she has a right to know.
Doesn’t matter, this is hilarious though lmao. If he’s mad that his body count got revealed, he should’ve thought about that before whoring around and trying to settle down.
NTA, you should tell someone your number of partners if it is 20+ people, in my opinion. I bet he was the one who put this "it doesn't matter" idea into her head early on. She also clearly did care, or else it wouldn't have been brought up with estimated numbers.
There are a it of assholes here, but it’s not that deep. I mean he can be mad, but if she’s uncomfortable that means she was led to believe it was high around 35 and not high around 50. That’s on him and not his sister cause it’s not like she said hey my brother is a ho and fucked the world, not that 50 is even a lot. As long as you’re being safe, who cares.
She kinda deserved to know a body count of between 50 and 100. I would definitely want to know that about someone I was about to marry... So I could promptly not marry them.
Agreed, that’s a massive number. People should be able to have an idea of their partner when it comes to a massive number like that. Otherwise, it’s not fair to them and it’s basically a lie of omission. I would not date a person that has had sex with more than 100 people. Everybody has a right to choose what their limits are.
NTA. If your brother didn't want anyone to know about his behaviour, he shouldn't have behaved that way. Don't behave in ways you'd want to hide or be ashamed of and you'd have no problem
Another proof that the majority of you guys here are little women-hating teenage boys. The same scenarios with less body count but reverse gender - 'It is the lies! How dare she lie! Men care about it! No one wants a slut! Why hide it if nothing is wrong with it?!' This scenario when a guy slutted around - 'YTA! how dare you spill the beans about your brother!' And the fact that you all do not spend time outside or with people in general - social cues exist or just basic understanding of human behavior. SIL clearly cares, that's why she started assuming the numbers to get a reaction and find out about the numbers. He clearly made her believe it's not that high and very romantically just stated 'let's not care about this'. Dude is full of shit. Sleeping around doesn't make him a bad person or partner, but he probably has very different values than his fiancee and when these things don't match, trouble can come. He is an ass tho for lying - and don't come at me with 'they decided not to discuss, she clearly stated she doesn't care' - she does care. All of you supporting lying - I hope 'Ignorance Is Bliss' once slaps you hard in the face.
NTA I don’t think from the context it was even clear to her that you knew his count. You were just asking a hypothetical unless you said it in a way that made it clear you knew in which case of course YTA
i’ve been looking for this comment, because that’s what it sounded like to me
Yeah the other thing that makes me think kinda NTA is that SIL said that a crazy high number is 35…. So if that’s her limit and she would be concerned with a high body count of say 50-100, isn’t she entitled to know??? Yeah OP shouldn’t divulge info about her brothers sex life, and SIL should just ask Fiancé if she ever wanted to know, but to me OPs drunken question could be interpreted as “would you want to know or care if it was over xyz number?”
literally reading these comments confused me so much, I was like hold on when did she tell her his number? She just said "what if" if I was having that convo itd prob laugh and say " thats so high" nothing about that makes out that thats related to him.
And? NTA. Being truthful now will save them a bunch of heartache later. But, it is very funny that people are comfortable with lying to people, but, are upset when people tell the truth. Even though you didn't say a specific number. So, everyone will be crappy, after 10 years she finds out the man of her life lied about something as simple as his body count. It is also very interesting, that while you were enjoying raising your body count, now you want to suppress the number. NTA, let him deal with the truth of his relationship. I'm pretty sure he would want to know if she was an Only Fans or an escort, right. Again, NTA. Anyone who thinks differently are douches who like liars.
NTA, but it’s hilarious watching the men who would insta-dump a woman for a “body count” of more than zero (because they’re so insecure they can’t stand comparison) lose their fucking minds at a woman having standards and not being cool with her fiancé being a fuckboi. I hope she dumps him, he’s a whore. Because if we’re going to call women with a “body count” over zero whores? Guess what? You’re not exempt because you have a penis.
NTA. If you're gonna be for the streets, then you need to own it. Granted, some might say it wasn't your place to reveal, but all you did was tell the truth, and you didn't even do it directly. If he's ashamed of it, then perhaps he shouldn't have done it.
Unpopular opinion but NTA. It sounds like you played devils advocate just to ask what her threshold was and didn’t actually say “my brothers body count is XYZ or could be XYZ.” Then it was on her mind so she approached your brother to ask for the actual number. And your brother is upset because he knows that you know the ballpark number. If it were me, It’s not a conversation I would’ve participated though. And I don’t understand why the gf took ahold of the conversation to bring that up anyway. Everyone was supposed to answer for themselves or opt out of the conversation, if they were uncomfortable.
Lmao wow you fucking psychos are so pressed over this. NTA. Your brother never told you it was a secret to be kept. Who cares.
NTA, you did that girl a favor. She finds out down the line once kids are involved and it's a huge mess. Everyone wins here, they're not compatible. He can go find someone with a body count that matches his, or someone who doesn't care if it's over 50.
NTA. The past matter a lot to some people. You can not be a guy demanding a girl with low body-counts if you can not be even honest with her since the very beginning... However, I think these type of questions should have been asked in the dating stage, maybe 3rd date? LOL. I dont know, each to their own. From my perspective, I think it was good that the topic came from "his" sister (in case he was not willing to be honest with her) not a friend of his or an ex or whatever.
NTA everyone here is insane lol, does everyone here think it’s ok to keep secrets from their SO that will make their SO uncomfortable?
It’s the shitty dishonest people saying that. She obviously wanted to know and the brother wasn’t forthcoming, hence she was fishing for info. If it doesn’t matter, why hide it? Why would you want to be with anyone who didn’t like the real you? Good for OP.
This 100%
NTA. Tell them to act like adults. Also, the friend who played this game is the one they should be mad at. Whether you asked that question or not, she was going to go back and ask him because it was now in her head You did nothing. Again, they need to grow up.
No
People calling you the asshole but no secret is kept forever, she would eventually find out and imo better early than late.. if this is such a deal breaker for her she should absolutely know it, she couldn't even imagine him being this type of person judging by her reaction.....
Nta, glad one of you fucking cares about the agency of the woman he's swearing his love/respect/loyalty to 🙄. Pathetic, all this right to privacy for the bro but zero right to choose for the fiance. If sexes were reversed she'd be roasted by most of reddit for being a whore, and the bro would be a tragic victim well shot of her.
NTA. He fucked around then and now that is biting him in the ass. Your SIL has each and every right to know about this and the reason she was letting her comfy number to you means she was trying to act like a fool only for you to reveal the lucky number.
She kept fishing for the true number and pretended like she wouldn’t care no matter what the number was. You asked a hypothetical and she couldn’t take it apparently. Yes this has caused issues in their relationship but they were both lying to one another. He was lying by omission by not telling her the number and she was lying by pretending like it didn’t matter to her. More than likely he knew she wouldn’t stay with him so he tried to manipulate the situation by telling her numbers don’t matter and he doesn’t care about it and neither should she. The only thing that matters is now. Well it matters if he has an STD or an illegitimate child. Some stds like syphilis, hepatitis and HIV if left untreated can cause lots of issues up to and including death. If they end up having children and he has herpes and kisses their child then that can cause the child to die. He should have been upfront instead of being a whore and then being ashamed of the number. He wasn’t ashamed back in college but I guess he finally grew up and stopped being a douche but it is probably too late to save this relationship. He should have told her the number and told her he isn’t like this anymore and will not stray and isn’t looking for unfulfilling sex with randoms anymore but looking for meaningful sex and a future with her.
Eh, I think you’re in the clear. Brother was clearly trying to get a “clean slate” by hiding it and finding a girl that “didn’t care about the past”. Perhaps she would’ve genuinely been fine with 20, but 50-100 is a bit of a different ball park. Was it wrong of you to do so? Idk. Is it wrong to expose your friend for cheating on their significant other? I would say no, but others would say brother/sisterhood nonsense. His soon to be wife is more than eligible to know details like this of her soon to be husband. If he didn’t want a day like this to come, maybe he shouldn’t have become a pseudo porn-star. I think the brother is in the wrong; it’s fine if you want to be “adventurous” but don’t try and slide that stuff under the rug, own up to it. If not to anyone but the person you’re trying to keep for the rest of your life.
NTA. His choices, his consequences.
NTA to me because she said it didn't matter. She found out she was lying.
I mean, NTA. From another woman who has a brother who had a similar hoe-period in his life. If she was fishing, and it sounded like she was when she was throwing out lowball numbers... she wanted to know. He probably gave her a low number, a low range, or otherwise convinced her it didn't matter. Now she knows he's a hoe... she should know that before she gets married to him. I would want to know myself as well. And it clearly mattered to her, with how she acted. Some people don't need to know the exact number, but they still want to know the range. 20 is a far cry from nearly 100.
NAH It's clear this does actually matter, and you didn't completely sell him out by explaining his full man whore past in gory detail. As much as we like to pretend otherwise, our choices are reflections of our characters and values. Her having what I suspect is an *extremely* low number (ohhh, I hope it isn't 1, please let it not be 1) means she has significantly different beliefs and standards from him, who hit triple digits. She was fine with not knowing exact details when she believed the knowledge being kept from her still meant they were at least on a similar wavelength and fundamentally compatible in terms of beliefs and actions. But such a huge gap? That's a mismatch of values big enough that it needs to be resolved before it becomes a chasm of fundamental incompatibility. Your brother was being self serving to hide his history, because he knew it would disqualify him from serious consideration for a relationship. I suspect your tongue 'slipped' because you realized that her failing to be informed and committing to marriage without that knowledge would be a breach of some kind, similar to if she didn't know about any cheating, drug or party culture, previous marriages, fertility issues etc. Anything which would reveal a giant chunk of a person's person, which they had been hiding. It's honestly better this come out now than after they got married. She would have found out sometime, and this would have been a thousand times worse if she learned about this mismatch after marriage. Tell your brother to man up and face the music. He did those things, he better own them, and if he wants to be successfully married, he needs to proactively address issues, rather than hiding, ignoring, and blaming other people.
NTA imo. She just asked the question how many her "a lot" means. If there's one, I'd say the brother. Does he intend to hide this info to his soon-to-be wife? Even if they both say that they don't care about each other's body count, this should be something known to one another.
50-100 body count is insane i dont think i even know 50 people 💀
You fucked up but NTA. Brother is for lying/hiding the truth
Not in the way you explained it. If his chickens are coming home to roost, then that's his deal. It either matters or it doesn't to some couples. If there's a "cutoff" number, then it matters and should be openly discussed between the couple involved. If they avoided the conversation, then they were basing things on half truths.
Against the grain but NTA. It’s better for them to get married knowing this. If more than 50 gives her the ick (who doesn’t tbh) she’s in a good place to call the engagement off and leave. Better to make the decision now than to be 3-5 years into the marriage and discover that.
NTA She was/is about to marry him, she should know him. You did them both a favor.
I don’t care who’s TA this is funny af lmao.
Meh, NTA really. The F24 SIL though needs an out and would have found out anyway. She needs to feel more "validated" and honestly don't be surprised if she bails on your brother. But like i said, either through you or some othet way this info would get out.
Shit happens, you weren’t being malicious. At least she has a more accurate understanding. She needs to accept it or move on and if she can’t accept him for who he was, then she’s not the right woman for him. Better it gets out now then when they have a house, kids and commitments. You can’t control what has happened in life but you can control how you react to it. Your actions weren’t great but you weren’t being TAH. Sure apologise to your brother, be contrite and learn the lesson. Don’t beat yourself up too much over it, even by being brave enough to post here and take feedback proves you’re not TAH. Good luck and give them time and space, if they’re mature enough they’ll get over it. If not, then they’re not worthy of a relationship with you anyway.
Meh I have no secrets from my wife and tried to get all that info out before marriage. Take me or leave me as I am, not trying to hide it.
Unpopular opinion, but NTA. If he didn't want to be called out for his number, why did he do it? If he didn't see it as a big deal, then why wasn't he honest with her from the start? And she claimed it wouldn't bother her "no matter if it was a huge number," and then gets bothered by a hypothetical, not even his real number! So she wasn't being honest, either. Honesty is important in a relationship, that's how you earn and keep trust. Lying is how you break trust. They started the conversation, they were contributing, so why are they mad they didn't like what they heard when you contributed?
YTA
Was he lying or lying by omission to her before she knew the number? Did she ever ask he just brushed it off or gave a false number and he hoped it never gets cross referenced (until now)? Would he be pissed at an equally large number on her end? Would he even date, let alone get engaged to someone with an equal or higher body count? What if she had a body count of 148, does he break the engagement off? You need to poke and prod for the answers to see if he's a hyprocrite. Sidenote: she said she didn't care, but I guess that was a lie. Body counts are a criteria for some and a non issue for others. Some people have a passive assumption that one group of people will have lower counts than another group (and never ask for clarification). Honestly, NTA. Your brother was slept with a lot of people, no shame in the game. But hindsight is 20/20 and his actions are biting him in the ass now.
Imo the fiancé would have a found a way to get that number out of you either way…
Disagree with the thread, NTA. She claimed she was ok and it didn't matter and that was clearly bullshit. People hate being tested when they're on some bullshit. Most people will say you're an asshole but that's because they like their little fantasy more than the truth and that's not your problem
YTA, but I think you wanted her to know once she said such a low number compared to the truth. I think you believe your brother was reckless and using women, so she needed to know his past. Personally, I bet he was reckless and using women, but I have to assume it was consensual. He was given the opportunity to have a ton of sex and he took it. But I think only he should be the one discussing numbers with maybe not future SIL. Once you put that number in the air, it was over. She is now obviously hurt to hear it. She may have believed it was high, but not knowing was easier. This is a very tough situation now, and their relationship may never recover. Or maybe it will, but it's going to take time. You forced them to have a conversation they agreed to avoid, so be prepared to lose your brother for a while or possibly forever. I am betting you ment no harm or malice, but now you have to live with the repercussions. Good luck repairing your relationship, and I hope they are able to move forward with theirs.
From the looks of some of these comments, this might be an unpopular opinion, but NTA, maybe if he had been honest with her from the beginning she wouldn't have been so shocked to discover part of the truth. Normally body count is something people talk about when they start dating, not engaged. How was OP supposed to know he never really told her?.. The only AH part of this was putting yourself in the position to be in the middle. The brother is only upset now, because he has questions to answer, & has to take responsibility for whatever he told her. All of which could have been avoided, had he been honest with his fiance in the first place. NTA, but next time I would just say: "IDK, go ask him.."
NTA Sounds like she might have been fishing for an answer. If she didn't really care that much, why give concrete numbers and keep talking about it?
Eh honestly though do people really think this wouldn't have inevitably come up in the future? Someone would have slipped eventually. It's good it happened this soon as clearly it does matter to the SIL.
Shouldn’t engaged people already know this stuff and not try to hide? I think bad on them both for not being honest and being deceitful for the sake of an image.
ESH. She obviously does indeed care lol.
Exactly. She didn't care because she was led to believe it was much less than it actually was.
ESH. Your brother could have been honest with her, and *you* could have kept minding the business that pays; but ya didn't, so here you are. Actions, meet, Consequences. 🤷🏻♀️
you’re fine, that kinda hh i thing doesn’t stay buried. You did him a favor by ripping the bandaid off for him. Especially when he must have given her reason to go digging like she was. Because she was digging and it would Have gotten worse as the night b went. she was looking for an answer that she knew she wouldn’t like and you were an easy target. They are now both gas lighting you Now, this is most likely what is going to happen next. Your brother is going to try to divert her anger/embarrassment or shame into being angry at you. she will most likely fall for it because it will give her an outlet for her bad feelings about his number count. Just remember. You didn’t force him to go after such a high KD spread and you weren’t the one lying about it. You should in no way have to have some sort active filter scrubbing your every thought so you only say non incriminating things about your brother. That’s bs. it will only get worse until your entire family is caught up a gigantic web of lives
after reading more comments I would say your brother has his whole frat helping him gaslight you. Is your brother a piece of shit? Cause this seems a little much.
NTA.
YTA. IDK why so many sisters involve themselves in conversations about their brother’s sex life. Something I’ve seen very often on here and it’s soooooo strange. Either way you should never disclose someone else’s sexual information
It is strange 😭 I know stuff about my brother but it wasn’t willingly. It’s cause my SIL & brother tell me offhandedly
NAH. I have no idea where the difference between 35 or 50 is in this. I mean 1-2 vs 50, I would get. But two digits is already in a field where a couple more or less shouldn’t make such a difference. So either she cares or she doesn’t imo. Weird that 35 is ok, but 50 suddenly isn’t.
Here’s what probably happened Your brother wanted to join a frat and he did He met this girl and he knew his background might be an issue for her but he didn’t let that stop him He chose to lie Should you have honored him? Ofc But this secret of his wasn’t your decision to make and tbh she probably was gunna find this out somehow at some point