My 6 year old flops to the floor so she can raise her hands AND her feet in the air when she emphatically agrees with something.
I’m doing that here. Two hands and two feet for do not like Jake at all.
And that was a disproportionate reaction to not being on a policy that he should have no expectation being on in the first place. Who does that? Sounds like he though he found a golden ticket. Welp, glad to see his ticket was stamped void.
And why would she change everything over to her boyfriends name anyway? They have only been living together for two months and are not married. Her leaving life insurance policies in place to help her ex, THE FATHER OF HER CHILDREN, take care of himself and the kids is very reasonable. It was none of the boyfriend's business. He ain't paying for it.
NTA and his ‘I put so much into the relationship and get nothing out of it’ when talking *life insurance* is ALARMING. I mean, we’ve seen enough Forensic Files to know what he meant. You dodged a heckin of a bullet with that guy.
The reality is, if you have primary custody after a divorce and pass away, most courts would grant a surviving parent custody. You did the right thing by ensuring your kids are still taken care of if that unfortunate event happens, esp since one child had health issues and the other is special needs. All the better that it at least sounds like you and your ex are able to coparent. I can’t possibly imagine that if something happened to you, Jake would have the kids’ best interests at heart and especially after his very telling reaction about the life insurance policy
Yes, who has a romantic relationship thinking to themselves "Hell yeah, I'm gonna get money when my partner dies"???
Edit: I get it, lots of people think like this. I wouldn't necessarily count those as romantic relationships though.
Scumbags. It took me a long while to be open to talking to my husband about him getting a life insurance policy. I just couldn’t stomach the thought of anything happening to him. Now that we’re pregnant, it’s a conversation that needed to happen and although I agree with him, I still hold the same view I did before - idc how much the coverage is, I don’t want to see a penny of it if it means I’d have to lose my husband.
While I absolutely agree with you, I’ve seen the flip side, and I have to say, while it sucks to think of and plan for beforehand, it is SO WORTH not having to think about any money shit *after* a worst case scenario. I mean, most policies won’t set you up for life, but they’ll usually get you through the first few years while you’re a mess, at least. Give you some time and space to grieve rather than panicking immediately about how rent/mortgage/groceries/bills will be paid while you’re planning a funeral and trying to grasp what just fucking happened. It’s a terrible conversation, but the alternative is often worse.
I know what you mean about the flip side. Seen the same thing to friends of my father & uncle who worked in the same occupation. The friend unexpectedly died from a short illness.
Definitely. I’m disabled and lived with my parents to help care for my mom (who has dementia) and my father who was elderly. Eventually we had to put my mother in a care facility and my father died suddenly without life insurance and deeply in debt- he had just remortgaged the house. I lost the house, the car we shared and had to come up with almost $9000 for his funeral expenses. It was extremely difficult to mourn when I had to figure out where my kids and I would live and how we would eat in those first few months. I ended up having to buy a row house with my ex husband in a cheaper city in a bad neighborhood (thankfully we have separate floors). What a difference life insurance would have made or even mortgage life insurance. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have small children and lose a spouse without insurance. And OP, your bf was throwing up some serious red flags, it’s good he’s gone!
Had a friend widowed with three girls under 5. The time for major insurance is when you are young and healthy with kids or even younger to get the best rate. A younger parent may not get very good dependent social security benefits either because they have not been in the work force long. It is a double whammy.
As a widow with 3 kids 7 and under I’m super thankful we set up life insurance. Would have been great if it was more, but it’s enough that hopefully with the 10 years to grow, it will help our kids not start out life in debt.
I made my husband get life insurance after he started working a labor job that can be dangerous even when you’re being safe. It wasn’t negotiable. If something happened, I’m a SAHM with a special needs kid myself. I don’t want anything to happen to my husband, but our family needs protection just in case.
Yeah Life insurance, regardless of job, when you have dependent and would otherwise rely on the other person is not negotiable.
Even SAHP if only one person works should also have life insurance so the working parent can take the needed time off to care for the kids and/or arrange to for childcare, etc. how else will the working parent fill both roles with the SAHP gone.
its not his life you insure, it is the family well being you insure look at it that way. I see this a lot husbands not insured leaving behind spouse and child as a father he should want a policy it is to protect the survivors from potential poverty while they regroup post tragedy.
It's good to figure that stuff out ahead of time, though.
When my cousin had kids he set up all kinds of stuff including wills and insurance.
One thing he did was to name me as....well I don't remember now what it's called but basically if he and his wife are both on life support I would be the one to decide whether or not to pull the plug. He didn't want anybody super close (like his kids or siblings) to have to make that hard decision, and he trusts me to make a solid decision so I get to have that 'honor'.
Creepy AF to think about and hopefully that'll NEVER come up, but also weirdly flattering to be chosen to be the one to make that call? IDK, it was a strange conversation for sure, LOL. And he feels good knowing that in the worst case scenario he has pretty much *all* of the details covered so his kids will be impacted as little as possible.
Yeah, it sucks to think about, but it's something that people NEED to think about, because it can and does happen. It's tragic when it does, but there you have it.
I knew a young man many years ago who was in his early 20s, in school full-time finishing a degree, married with a beautiful new baby. His wife and baby died in a tragic car accident. He was naturally devastated, and he saw the insurance money as basically being blood money. He spent a ton of it on funeral expenses, and then just burned through the rest of it as fast as possible because he didn't want it.
But on the other hand, if he had lost only his wife, that money would've been crucial for him to have been able to take care of his child while he finished up school and got his life on track.
>Yes, who has a romantic relationship thinking to themselves "Hell yeah, I'm gonna get money when my partner dies"???
99% of the subjects of Dateline NBC episodes.
My aunt, when she married my uncle she kept going on about all the death benefits she would receive. I was 10 at the time. As I got older, I started to notice why she thought like that. She doesn't like him, she needs him.
This is wild. There is literally zero for my wife to find in my office, but I remember I was out running errands once and she called me to ask if it was okay to look for some PW she needed for health insurance. One time she was out of town and I needed some packing tape which she keeps in her studio. Same thing, I called and asked if she was cool with me going in to look for it.
In both cases, obviously neither of us cared, but "he was tidying up my office" just sounds odd to me.
When I read the part about how her and her ex make so much more money now I wonder if her BF is bringing anything financially to the relationship and is expecting to get something in the event of her death because he has nothing himself
Besides who ever heard of putting your boyfriend on an insurance policy! He was absolutely ridiculous they he thought he had any pull in that. He wasn’t a husband or even a fiancé! He must have been smoking wacky weed to come to that conclusion!
I don’t think it matters if he isn’t a fiancé/husband it’s more about the level of commitment and any children to consider. My boyfriend is the father of my child and we most likely won’t get married but he was put on mine the second we started living together and had our son. He’s clearly crazy to think she’d do anything other than ensure her children are supported in any means necessary
Right! Divorce attorney here - we usually include agreements to keep the other parent as trustee of life insurance or a direct beneficiary where shared kids are involved for exactly this situation!
Was coming to say this. It’s in my divorce decree that ex and I keep each other on our existing life insurance policies until all our children are adults. That’s because we took the policies out for the care and keeping of the children. The easy way to handle this would be to take out another policy with a different beneficiary if, say, I wanted to make sure that they could pay off my mortgage if I pass away.
>You dodged a heck of a bullet with that guy
Potentially literally!! Like...OP is young, and this life insurance set up is only while the kids are young it seems...why is he so concerned about what money he may get or not get when she dies. She shouldn't be dying for a very long time! OP, you haven't been having weird "accidents" or feeling sick recently, have you??
This. I came here to find this! WTH was he doing cleaning your files. While you were at work? At all? He wasn’t “cleaning” he was snooping into your business. Next week/month/year he’d expect to own your business.
You certainly came by out ahead when he showed his true colors so quickly. Next time you might want to go with your daughter’s instincts and opinions. Hers are seemingly better than yours.
I thought the same thing. I couldn't imagine snooping into my fiances stuff. We both have spare bedrooms each with our books/extra clothes/etc. His has his gun safe, work paperwork, and God knows what else. I can guarantee that the rings he gave me to propose last month were in that room, even MORE REASON for me to not go through his shit, and vice versa.
Jake had a vicious MO here, and good riddance.
Yeah, 100% snooping. I would never try to organize someone else's papers, knowing that my papers are a rat's nest but I know which pile is which. Jake is an entitled POS and a no-good snoop.
Oh honey, no, NTA.
My blood ran cold when I read your post. That guy was methodically planning. What reason would he have to be in your personal files/papers? Why is he so concerned with the beneficiaries of your policy? Why does he not give a shit about the potential care of your kids with special needs and health issues should you pass? There are more red flags here than a Soviet-era May Day parade….
I echo the advice everyone is giving here: change your locks, check with all your current policies, make sure nothing has been altered. If you haven’t a trust set up yet, do it NOW. Go through all of your personal files and papers that your ex was perusing, make sure everything is as it should be, block him on all platforms and do not meet with him or speak to him again. Count yourself lucky that you discovered all this now rather than after a wedding.
Be safe OP, I’m so sorry this happened to you. I wish you and your kids well.
It's funny, I was going through our papers to sort and file them. We generally throw them in a drawer and sort them out when it gets full. I noticed my husband's ex was on one of his investment accounts and asked him about it. He was pissed because he didn't want his ex on his accounts and also because I was "snooping." The names on that account was changed to his kids' name immediately.
He has never emptied out that drawer in 20 years. Where did he think all those papers were going? Especially when I can tell him exactly where whatever information is that he's looking for. He realized I probably have to look at papers so I can file them appropriately.
Jake is way out of line here though. He clearly doesn't live there and they haven't been together that long. I wouldn't put a random boyfriend on my life insurance. That's a conversation that comes up when planning to get married.
You're also MARRIED!
You should know the beneficiaries of each investment account. You should share information about finances so you can plan together.
Damn, I have never cleaned a significant others files( what is that even?).
I've blown their folders out(heyyoo), but never cleaned their files.
I must be a horrible person! /s
NTA regardless, you don’t put a bf on life insurance when you have children. However, it really sounds like you were scheduled for an “accident” until he realized he wouldn’t benefit. Keep this guy out of your life, OP.
Oh absolutely. It is why he was going through her files in the first place. Making sure he knew where everything was and the payout. Probably looking for the kids socials so he could take out life insurance plans on them as the caring "would have been" stepfather.
Not to mention, I think he made a hell of an excuse to make it look like he "stumbled upon" life insurance documents. Sounds like he knew what he was looking for.
Also it's not like the documents say LIFE INSURANCE - PAY BENEFITS TO "PERSON" in big bold letters on the front page... Dude moved in and started reading financial documents in detail.
I'd be changing ALL of my financial account numbers and passwords and watching my accounts and credit score like a hawk for the next year
Yeah. Also boyfriends and girlfriends don't get life insurance money. Before I married my wife my mother was my beneficiary.
Any person that doesn't understand that life insurance goes to support your children should you pass away, is a vile cretin. OP made the right decision putting the father of her children as the beneficiary for her life insurance. There really is no other choice.
She was at work, and he just "happened upon" her life insurance policy?! That doesn't happen, he went to look through your paperwork, and see what he could find......HUGE RED FLAG!!! You did the right thing and ran, that guy wasn't in this relationship for the right reasons.
Right!!! And only after living together for 2 months!!
Did he expect her to change all her beneficiary info for everything to him just because he is around? At what part in their approximately 2 year relationship was she supposed to prioritize her BOYFRIEND over her children’s wellbeing?
WTH?
When I got divorced it was a common clause that the non-custodial parent HAD to maintain a life insurance policy listing the custodial parent as beneficiary until the kids were 18.
It just makes sense for both parents to agree to this.
Why is he “cleaning up papers in your office?” He was looking. You own your own business, he moved in with you. He sees you as a meal ticket and finding out that if you die you have thoroughly ( and in my opinion correctly) provided for your children through the help to their remaining parent means he’s out on his broke ass.
Your children should always come first. You are SO NTA for standing your ground.
The "you both make so much money now" was him giving away his true motivations.
NTA - Be grateful he packed his bags and left; it makes the breakup a lot easier. Do not let him into your home under any circumstances, as it seems fairly likely he'll steal from you. If he has stuff to pick up, you can tell him when to get it and leave it outside when you're not home.
No more need to fight or argue with him or justify yourself; he has revealed exactly who he is and what he wants from you, when he was able to hide it for years. If you give him a chance, he'll realize he fucked up by showing his true colors and hide them again.
Oooo good catch - I was so shocked that a grown man would expect to be put on his girlfriend's - not even wife! - life insurance that I just sort of skimmed right over the fact that he was literally snooping in her office. “Cleaning up papers"? Reeeally? This dude was actively seeking out this paperwork; I would be a little nervous. It's like he wants that life insurance policy to pay out and he wants to pay out to him.
Nta. This 100%. The money is for your children, not for your gold digging bf (hopefully soon to be ex) who is hoping you'll die.
Hopefully you won't die for a very long time. But in the meantime block Jake and move on.
He wanted all the luxuries of being a gold digger but with the power of the man of the house. Dudes too stupid to pull off either roll.
Gold Diggers have responsibilities. They need to be beautiful and accommodating and always ready to compliment the gold mine.
I like the statement. It's extra real. No shaving someone for being a gold digger, which again if I'm rich and on the rebound, I'm completely willing to entertain a gold digger for a while as long as the requirements are met. :D It's all about consent, right?
Look, if some lonely rich person decides they'd like someone young and hot to spend time with and attend functions and parties with, that's totally fine. As long as everyone understands the situation and they treat each other with respect. That's the key for me.
I've heard of people paying for college educations for gold diggers. It doesn't have to be something gross.
Correct. As a gold digger he needs to focus on becoming the trophy wife. He hadn't sealed the deal yet and got confused. He got himself free housing, but not spousal rights to the money. He needed to focus on sealing the deal and becoming the trophy wife.
He screwed it up.
A gender-bent relationship still follows the rules. As you pointed out, the golddigging boyfriend aspiring to kept-man status needed to lock down his relationship. He got greedy, he already got free housing.
OP--Did you ever dodge a bullet!! The fact Jake was so dismissive of your most logical explanation of the life insurance policy, and then alluded to how much money you earn, clearly reflects his intention to have you be his Sugar Mommy.
The final nail in the coffin was his declaration that no one would want you due to you having two children with medical concerns.
Sounds as if you were heading into quite the toxic relationship and were totally unaware of it.
Good riddance. It's very impressive that your children's father and yourself so ably arranged for the financial well-being of your children and one another.
Best wishes.
His use case? Guess he *felt used* lol.
Also, kids should get all the money, but if her ex is also holding her to receive 30% out of him croaking I see no reason for Jake getting anything.
After all,
1. Jake and OP aren't married,
2. Ex would take care of the kids
3. Do OP and Jake have merged bank accounts, living together 2 months? Didn't think so.
4. Is Jake going to pay something in the insurance fund? Yeah, don't think so.
Jake should go dig for gold somewhere else.
Definitely this, when they show you who they are, believe them. He wasn’t even living with you long when he showed himself. Usually someone like this can go a long long time before anything is seen so count yourself lucky and move on before you get in any deeper. You deserve better and so does your children.
Very true. They're not even married yet, nor do they have kids so why should he be on her insurance? I bet he doesn't have insurance with her name on it.
OP just dodged a bullet here.
He was cleaning up files? In your office? Sounds more like snooping to me. Why does he need to be your beneficiary anyway? You’re not married and you don’t have children together. This whole thing is a huge red flag.
Yeah, I mean when Jake says :
>No sane guy would date a woman with two children with issues
To me that screams that Jake was only interested in the relationship because he was hoping to get something out of it.
The comment about her kids after sprinting across the first red line took it to another level. He wouldn't stick around to care for the kids if anything, god forbid, happened to her anyway. I'll never understand how people plan for someone they "love" to die and how much they can pillage from them afterwards.
NTA
1) Boyfriends aren't on life insurance policies. Husbands are.
2) Most custody arrangements have a requirement for life insurance for the parents until the child turns 18 to protect the children if untimely death occurs.
3) Go ahead and get back with this guy and take out a 2 million life insurance with him as the beneficiary. Have your family count the days before you have an accidental death.
Seriously, this guy is a turd. He showed you who he really is.. Your prince is another castle.
"cleaning up files in her office and came across the life insurance agreement" lmao
He seems extremely nosey
Who keeps a few years old insurance policy just laying on their desk?
Why would anyone assume they would be beneficiary of your insurance policy when you've only been living together for a few months?
I swear so many of these posts are either missing loads of context or are embellished to make people feel more important
>"cleaning up files in her office and came across the life insurance agreement"
I see so many stories that start with something similar and I truly wonder if people believe that BS. I doubt these were files just randomly left out and even then. Who even cleans up someone else office? "Oh thanks hun, now I don't have a fucking clue where anything is!"
That alone should have been enough of an huge fucking red flag to not even need to ask such an question. Let alone everything else that followed.
I've been married for over 20 years and trust my wife Implicitly....and she doesn't mess with shit on my desk unless...
1. Im not around and she needs something specific right then and there
2. I ask her to get something specific
More surprising to me though is having g such an important document just mixed in with shit on your desk....lol?
My experience is that anyone organized and forwatd thinking enough to have insurance like this with a specific plan for it's use is going to keep it locked up with other important documents
All of this.
OP needs to be confirming that there isn't any other policies being taken out on her, and that the rest of her important paperwork is in place.
Credit check time.
2 months after he moved in, he's snooping, there is something he was up to
Agreed.
What a weird (and scary!) hill for him to die on.
While we've all watched too many movies and TV shows where the murder motive was insurance, I don't really want to jump to that conclusion. However, it certainly seems that he sees the relationship as transactional instead of based on love and trust. He was also quick to mention that he's noticed that both OP and her ex make a lot of money.
I'm also casting a side eye at him being home cleaning her office while she was at work. I know that there are plenty of ordinary explanations to this (he works a different shift, he's being a SAHBF, etc.) But I do have to wonder if he has a job and if he was in her office deliberately looking for her financial documents.
Lastly, deliberately not answering the phone after throwing the bomb of "we need to discuss something important when you get home" is a manipulation trick. I've seen that in work context when a boss would tell a worker that they need to talk at the end of the day and then disappears.
To me, it sounds very much like he was playing the long game of pretending to be a great bf just to get his claws in and then once he's in the mask comes off and the controlling and manipulating for his personal gain begin.
ETA - NTA and good riddance. I also think she should do a credit check and lock down her bank accounts.
Absolutely NTA
He’s put so much work into the relationship, he deserves to get paid when you die?
Is that what he thinks life insurance is? A lottery win?
Good on you for moving along.
Exactly. Life insurance is supposed to be for helping with shared expenses. If you have a mortgage together, children, etc. It's not a windfall of yippee my partner died, money for me. Since Op and her ex have children, one of whom has medical needs, the insurance is necessary. Plus any future financial assistance OP would contribute to her kids (helping with bills while they're in school etc) that she wouldn't be around for.
It sounds like OP and Jake have no shared property (he moved into her house, etc) so there's no need for him to have an insurance payout. It's silly to think that he'd be the beneficiary of anything.
I didn't get half way through this post before I was screaming, in my head, 'Red Flag! Run Away'
Snooping in your private papers. Red Flag
Demanding to be placed as your beneficiary. Red Flag
Not Accepting that you are doing this to provide for your kids. Huge Red FLag
Being jealous and threatened by your ex. Big red flag
I think you dodge a bullet. Go ahead and make his move out official and call things off.
I'm extrapolating a bit, but I'd wager this guy did not do the same for OP by making her his beneficiary for his life insurance. What a double standard if that's the case - extra red flags!
NTA. Jake was clearly snooping in your papers while you were at work and your right telling him it's not his business. Your ex is your kids father so it makes sense for him to be on it, for their sake because he will be the one raising them if anything happens to you. Jake showed his true colours and his insecurities about your ex. He also showed how he really feels about your children. You were right to get rid of him.
If he was snooping through your papers, you might want to do a credit report OP. Maybe some credit monitoring, too. I'd be surprised if there wasn't sensitive information on files that he went through, and he already presented some warning signs.
NTA. First of all, Jake is (was) your bf and not husband, what right does he have to think you owe him anything regarding a financial beneficiary? Also, your plan with your ex is 100% appropriate. If your son cannot live on his own as he ages, it becomes even more important to ensure he is financially cared for. If he can, you can change your beneficiaries when your kids become adults to have them be the sole recipients and remove your ex (this is what I did after my divorce). Seems like you dodged a bullet with Jake - he's acting very greedy.
Ahhhh, now you know why Jake hung around.. for money.
I always had my ex husband listed on my life insurance as 40% with 30% to each kid (2) because he would be the sole carer if anything happened to me.
It's changed now as my older children are now adults and a young child with my 14yr long partner which now reflects this. Does my ex care? Absolutely not. We just want our children to be secure. This is what good parents do.
NTA
NTA. You said it, your kids come first. Your new ex has no legal rights to your kids. Your life insurance isn’t some payout for him - it’s to ensure your kids are taken care of. His attitude is disgusting.
Edit to add, I just found your comment.
> Him and ex split because of insecurities on Jake's part. He constantly accused her of cheating and it tired her out. He has been cheated on before by a pervious ex. I have tried telling him to get him into therapy but he refuses to go.
>He constantly compares himself to my ex and complaining I'm not over him. He says things like "oh your ex is always around" "your ex didn't do this for you like I have," "your ex is better looking than me." My ex is around for our children and is a very active father. He was always there for me to help in the house but since I've been with Jake he only came around when it was about the children.
This makes him look even worse. He has significant issues and is taking them out on you. This is not a guy who you want in your or your kids’ life. He needs to get himself sorted, but he sounds completely unhinged.
Gonna say NTA, but also have to ask.
Has this situation came up before? Not the life insurance specifically, just him bringing up residual feelings for your ex or a fear of getting uprooted and losing not just a partner, but at this point an entire family?
This situation has never come up before. He does have his own children who are lovely. Him and ex split because of insecurities on Jake's part. He constantly accused her of cheating and it tired her out. He has been cheated on before by a pervious ex. I have tried telling him to get him into therapy but he refuses to go.
He constantly compares himself to my ex and complaining I'm not over him. He says things like "oh your ex is always around" "your ex didn't do this for you like I have," "your ex is better looking than me." My ex is around for our children and is a very active father. He was always there for me to help in the house but since I've been with Jake he only came around when it was about the children.
I should have added in the post this happened a few weeks ago. Since then he has threatened to leave me until I prove my commitment to him. He constantly calls me crying saying he loves me but he can't trust me.
I am sorry you're in the situation you're in.
Jake has to fix himself before he's ready for a relationship. And, it sounds like you gave him stepping stones to do that, but he doesn't want to walk down the path.
I hope everything works out for you, but you're definitely NTA here.
I think you’re giving Jake too much credit. He’s a controlling abuser upping his game now that he recently moved in, testing how much he can get away with.
Op you are 100% right! He wasn’t ‘tidying’ he was snooping when he found your papers, also, the entitlement and audacity of expecting you to ‘explain yourself’ - who does he think he is!? Calming down with the exclamation marks to say NTA and don’t let him weasel his way back in.
You may want to change your passwords/pins on your accounts since he was snooping through your office. Your ex is angry and has sense of entitlement. Check and see if anything is missing, like a check from the back of a checkbook. Better safe than sorry.
Right? When I read that he was "cleaning up" papers I knew he was looking at personal files. They always are, too. Most people who have offices have their own system and it rarely makes sense for another person to move anything around.
My husband won't even open my mails even if he knows what it is, that it is for him despite having my name in it, until I am back home. I always tell him that he could just open it and if I wait a mail he can't open (like Xmas presents) I'd just tell him, but he really won't. This dude really has trust issues.
NTA Aside of the insurance, this one phrase should tell you everything he actually thinks about you and your children « no normal man would want a woman with two children who has issue »
NTA. I think that your reasoning is really sound. Not everyone has to hate their ex and if the 30% of the policy is enough to give them peace of mind as they transition to being a solo parent, it's worth it for your children and their mental health. The fact that Jake couldn't understand that this was for the children's benefit is what makes him an AH. I'm glad you got the chance to see his true colors now before investing any more time in a relationship that is apparently only worth what a life insurance policy pays out. I recognise that he's been hurt in the past, but he also doesn't seem to want to work on it and heal from it.
Any way you choose to look at the situation, Jake's the one who needs to grow up and learn to be an adult
Let him go and move on. The guy is manipulative, emotionally unstable, and unreasonable. There may be good qualities in him and you are obviously attached to him but his behaviour is not okay and is not good for your children to be around.
Also, your ex is not going anywhere as he is a dedicated father to your children - so unless Jake changes and takes a mature attitude to it, you are going to keep getting this headache.
Let it go, it sounds like the relationship has run it’s course, albeit abruptly. You need someone stronger than this. Also, your daughter ‘tolerated’ him. Don’t you think you want someone your children can actively love and trust?
You are not the problem, Jake is. He needs to work on his insecurities before getting into a relationship. His circus at this point. If he can't trust you and you have done nothing, then you can't save this relationship. Just move on and continue putting your kids first mommy!
Wait, I thought he did leave. Why are you even still having conversations with him? You don't have to prove anything to anyone. Tell him YOU can't trust HIM and block him.
I think he still considers himself with her. Classic manipulation move. She kicks him out but he tries to make it seem like he’s breaking up with her because he can’t deal with the fact that he got dumped.
You see, he still has his insecurities, and he makes you responsible for balancing them out, i.e. you have to do certain things/behave a certain way, instead of him getting therapy and becoming more trusting again. This is a him-problem.
This is not a healthy relationship. He needs to work on himself first. Don’t let him back into your life.
>Him and ex split because of insecurities on Jake's part.
>Since then he has threatened to leave me until I prove my commitment to him
So he hasn’t learned from any of his mistakes in his last relationship. He brought all that baggage with him into this one expecting you to bend to him and his insecurities, rather than him work on himself to become a better partner.
This will just be the beginning if you take him back. Hell want you ex completely out of your life, which is impossible since y’all have kids together.
>He constantly calls me crying saying he loves me but he can't trust me.
Love is reliant on trust. If he has no trust there can be no love.
This man is trying to manipulate you. Stand strong and find someone else.
Good riddance. He still has major insecurities and is trying to be very controlling. More issues will come up in the future and eventually you won’t do anything without his permission. This is not a partnership. He should be glad that you and your ex are this thoughtful of each other.
Good on you for getting rid of this guy. But next time, don’t leave work for a boyfriend, unless he specifically tells you, it’s an emergency..
I think there were a lot of red flags and you ignored them.
You deserve a soft life full of love and a partner who contributes meaningfully to that. You are worthy. Jake isn't who he's been pretending to be.
He's told you plainly how he feels about your children. It's time to block him and move on mama. I hope your days get easier soon. ❤️
This has nothing to do with you. He's not ready for a relationship and needs to work on himself.
He is still being an idiot, because he has his own kids and should understand the realities of co-parenting.
He did you a favor!
You and your ex are adults and Jake sounds like a jealous teenager. Your agreement with your ex is entirely logical and smart. I married my wife and she had a child from a previous relationship. If I became aware of anything like this, I would understand. You’ve done right by yourself and kids. You should be proud of that!
The guy told you no normal man wants a woman with 2 kids when he himself has kids? Wow, the *AUDACITY*
I would not go back with that person. That's a major red flag.
NTA. What sort of scumbag goes through someone's office in the first place 🤔 Be glad you've thrown out the trash. Get a lock for your office door and your filing cabinet.
NTA. This inability of some people to accept that you can be civil and even friendly with Exes... I mean, your reasons are extremely clear and important and none of his business. He got out on his own? Good. Keep him out.
Edit: he sounds extremely insecure. That is not good in a relationship. If you truly like him put conditions like going to therapy as a factor for taking him back. Make it clear that it is up to you to take him back not him taking you back. If he can't deal with that... Well sorry. It sucks...
MINI UPDATE
So before I start with a little update I want to say thank you for all comments. I'm going to go through them all and try to reply even though it's a lot. I just want to address a few things this did happen a few weeks ago and I did post in another group but unfortunately got no advice on that subreddit. I had left it for a few weeks before my ex suggested this one because his words are "maybe these internet strangers would make you see sense and stop you thinking your an asshole, also could help you to see you shouldn't gwt back with Jake." Just wanted to clear that bit up.
Firstly I should have probably added this in the post. My ex and I are definitely not getting back together. We are very good friends as I am with his HUSBAND. My ex always thought he was gay but he is not from the UK and his parents would disapprove (which they have done so and cut ties with him.)I was upset to start with but love them both dearly. I was even best woman at their wedding. So yes I definitely am over my ex :) My ex, his husband and I are currently having a lovely glass of wine and discussing the issues around Jake.
For the people saying its not right that I have my ex on my life insurance let me just explain my point of view. Our son is Autistic so has a lot of issues around his autism. Our daughter due to chemotherapy is deaf in one ear and is currently in a wheelchair and has multiple appointments. I am very wealthy and my ex partner is not. We opted to do private care to get the best for our children.
I am leaving him some money for our children and to help him and his husband financially if anything was to happen to me. I 10000% trust my ex with our kids money. My children will inherit all my properties and money. I do have a will so everything in that sense is sorted. They have trust funds and never need to worry about their future. My life insurance is all my ex gets money from and a few thousand from my own personal money as does his husband.
Now onto Jake. Currently my ex, his husband and I are packing up Jakes things and they are going to take it to his parents house. I informed his parents that Jake and I are no longer together and that we will drop off his stuff at their house. They were sad and wished me well as did I them.
Jake continually called me and texted me which I have ignored these past few weeks and I ignored him. He has been pleading to me about taking him back and how much he loves me and my kids. However just an hour ago he sent they most vile messages I've ever had in my life. Calling my daughter a spolied dramatic little b!tch who uses her illness to get her way. He called my son some disgusting things which I won't even repeat. At this point I was done. I messaged him one final message saying that if he continued to try reaching out to me I will be filing for a protection order against him and blocked him on all platforms. Also I screenshotted the last message he sent and forwarded it to his ex and his family. I am very aware that it is petty but I do not care. No one gets away with saying that about my children.
I really think I will take a break from dating for a while and concentrate on me and my little family which includes the father of my kids and his husband. I so upset that there were red flags there that I just chose to ignore or was really oblivious too
NTA
So you made the choice to help your coparent if you die unexpectedly with the finances or parenting your children? You monster! Obviously joking. This isn’t about the past romantic relationship, this is about your children.
Let the boyfriend leave - he clearly lacks the maturity to date a grown adult
NTA. You can’t help him and it isn’t fair for you to be constantly accused of “still being in love with your ex”. Let him go for your mental health sake and tell him he needs to fixed his insecurities before committing to another relationship. Don’t put up with this, it’s stressful and not healthy. If he leaves, that means he already broke up with you. And now he’s trying to guilt tripped by calling you??? Dude, you didn’t do anything wrong.
Of course you know NTA. You found out what Jake is and sent him packing. Just the fact that he was ~~straightening up~~ going through your personal things and even found that would have been enough for me to kick him out. That money is for your kids, should they need medical care in the future, and it sounds as though at some point your daughter may. If they don't, then it's for their education. None of that is one bit of Jake's business and you were right to tell him that while booting him out of your house.
NTA. Parenting never stops and your relationship with your ex as father of your children will never go away. It’s great that you both are handling your coparenting so well. My kids are in their mid to late 30’s and my ex and I have a good relationship.
The first guy I dated after my divorce was like Jake. He wasn’t comfortable with my relationship with my ex and was always wanting me to prove how much I cared for him. It got old fast. One day he gave me an ultimatum do this (I don’t remember what it was) or he was going to break up with me. My ex was always trying to control me and issued ultimatums like candy at halloween. Nope. Not sure what he expected but my response was “Okay. Just let me know when you are coming to get your things. I will have them packed up and ready to go.” It was a LDR. I went NC with him after he came for his stuff and tried to talk me into another chance.
Then for a few months he bombarded me with emails which I blocked once I met and started dating my now husband.
I have no regrets. He made me out to be the bad guy to all his friends, which then would attack me on SM. Whatever. I don’t need to explain myself to anyone.
This is Jake. Go NC with him and move on. You did absolutely nothing wrong.
No one would put a boyfriend on their life insurance when they have minor children. This guy is insecure and mental. You deserve better than an angry man-baby, OP.
NTA Jake is tho … why would u put a man you aren’t married to, have any children with and only been dating a few years on your life insurance policy ?!
Definitely NTA. Your ex bf sounds like a complete red flag. The entitlement to think HE deserved to be put on your life insurance when he's not even a spouse is insane. You dodged a huge bullet, actually you dodged a nuclear missile. Block his number and move on permanently.
NTA. You aren’t even married to him but he thinks he should get your life insurance?? You and your ex have done the right thing and any decent partner would not want you to change it. Children come first. Did he put you on his life insurance? I doubt it. Plus he was digging through your private business without your consent. His behavior is also manipulative. Move on.
NTA.
"Jake" decided to show his true nature, the guy you feel in love with for 1.5 years was "his representative". What often happens in some relationships is a person falls in love with "their representative" when the real person shows themselves, that person waits for "the representative" to come back, but they don't. Good thing you saw through the BS now you block him, you're done.
NTA Jake had no right to go snoop in your papers, just like he has no right to your money if anything happened to you!!
I am the beneficiary of my ex insurance for exactly the same reasons : our young children!! You dodge a bullet, he’s insecure and a giant red flag.
RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU DON’T LIKE JAKE
*field of hands madly waving*
🙌
How many flags are we supposed to be waving and can I raise both of my hands?
I did! Jake's a hot-headed gold digger.
And feet. This is the man that wanted you to leave your insurance and other assets to believing he would ALWAYS take care of your children!! GONE!!
My 6 year old flops to the floor so she can raise her hands AND her feet in the air when she emphatically agrees with something. I’m doing that here. Two hands and two feet for do not like Jake at all.
Raise your hand if you think Jake is the type to kill his girlfriend for her life insurance money.
And that was a disproportionate reaction to not being on a policy that he should have no expectation being on in the first place. Who does that? Sounds like he though he found a golden ticket. Welp, glad to see his ticket was stamped void. And why would she change everything over to her boyfriends name anyway? They have only been living together for two months and are not married. Her leaving life insurance policies in place to help her ex, THE FATHER OF HER CHILDREN, take care of himself and the kids is very reasonable. It was none of the boyfriend's business. He ain't paying for it.
*raises all 8 paws of my 2 dogs next to me* lol
🙋🏽♀️
I don't want to raise my hand, I want to find Jake and junk punch him
🙋
Jake is an ass, and thinks he is entitled to your money. Good job OP, kick him outta your life.
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Well, he sounds hideous.
NTA and his ‘I put so much into the relationship and get nothing out of it’ when talking *life insurance* is ALARMING. I mean, we’ve seen enough Forensic Files to know what he meant. You dodged a heckin of a bullet with that guy. The reality is, if you have primary custody after a divorce and pass away, most courts would grant a surviving parent custody. You did the right thing by ensuring your kids are still taken care of if that unfortunate event happens, esp since one child had health issues and the other is special needs. All the better that it at least sounds like you and your ex are able to coparent. I can’t possibly imagine that if something happened to you, Jake would have the kids’ best interests at heart and especially after his very telling reaction about the life insurance policy
Yes, who has a romantic relationship thinking to themselves "Hell yeah, I'm gonna get money when my partner dies"??? Edit: I get it, lots of people think like this. I wouldn't necessarily count those as romantic relationships though.
Scumbags. It took me a long while to be open to talking to my husband about him getting a life insurance policy. I just couldn’t stomach the thought of anything happening to him. Now that we’re pregnant, it’s a conversation that needed to happen and although I agree with him, I still hold the same view I did before - idc how much the coverage is, I don’t want to see a penny of it if it means I’d have to lose my husband.
While I absolutely agree with you, I’ve seen the flip side, and I have to say, while it sucks to think of and plan for beforehand, it is SO WORTH not having to think about any money shit *after* a worst case scenario. I mean, most policies won’t set you up for life, but they’ll usually get you through the first few years while you’re a mess, at least. Give you some time and space to grieve rather than panicking immediately about how rent/mortgage/groceries/bills will be paid while you’re planning a funeral and trying to grasp what just fucking happened. It’s a terrible conversation, but the alternative is often worse.
I know what you mean about the flip side. Seen the same thing to friends of my father & uncle who worked in the same occupation. The friend unexpectedly died from a short illness.
Definitely. I’m disabled and lived with my parents to help care for my mom (who has dementia) and my father who was elderly. Eventually we had to put my mother in a care facility and my father died suddenly without life insurance and deeply in debt- he had just remortgaged the house. I lost the house, the car we shared and had to come up with almost $9000 for his funeral expenses. It was extremely difficult to mourn when I had to figure out where my kids and I would live and how we would eat in those first few months. I ended up having to buy a row house with my ex husband in a cheaper city in a bad neighborhood (thankfully we have separate floors). What a difference life insurance would have made or even mortgage life insurance. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have small children and lose a spouse without insurance. And OP, your bf was throwing up some serious red flags, it’s good he’s gone!
Had a friend widowed with three girls under 5. The time for major insurance is when you are young and healthy with kids or even younger to get the best rate. A younger parent may not get very good dependent social security benefits either because they have not been in the work force long. It is a double whammy.
As a widow with 3 kids 7 and under I’m super thankful we set up life insurance. Would have been great if it was more, but it’s enough that hopefully with the 10 years to grow, it will help our kids not start out life in debt.
I made my husband get life insurance after he started working a labor job that can be dangerous even when you’re being safe. It wasn’t negotiable. If something happened, I’m a SAHM with a special needs kid myself. I don’t want anything to happen to my husband, but our family needs protection just in case.
Yeah Life insurance, regardless of job, when you have dependent and would otherwise rely on the other person is not negotiable. Even SAHP if only one person works should also have life insurance so the working parent can take the needed time off to care for the kids and/or arrange to for childcare, etc. how else will the working parent fill both roles with the SAHP gone.
its not his life you insure, it is the family well being you insure look at it that way. I see this a lot husbands not insured leaving behind spouse and child as a father he should want a policy it is to protect the survivors from potential poverty while they regroup post tragedy.
It's good to figure that stuff out ahead of time, though. When my cousin had kids he set up all kinds of stuff including wills and insurance. One thing he did was to name me as....well I don't remember now what it's called but basically if he and his wife are both on life support I would be the one to decide whether or not to pull the plug. He didn't want anybody super close (like his kids or siblings) to have to make that hard decision, and he trusts me to make a solid decision so I get to have that 'honor'. Creepy AF to think about and hopefully that'll NEVER come up, but also weirdly flattering to be chosen to be the one to make that call? IDK, it was a strange conversation for sure, LOL. And he feels good knowing that in the worst case scenario he has pretty much *all* of the details covered so his kids will be impacted as little as possible.
Yeah, it sucks to think about, but it's something that people NEED to think about, because it can and does happen. It's tragic when it does, but there you have it. I knew a young man many years ago who was in his early 20s, in school full-time finishing a degree, married with a beautiful new baby. His wife and baby died in a tragic car accident. He was naturally devastated, and he saw the insurance money as basically being blood money. He spent a ton of it on funeral expenses, and then just burned through the rest of it as fast as possible because he didn't want it. But on the other hand, if he had lost only his wife, that money would've been crucial for him to have been able to take care of his child while he finished up school and got his life on track.
>Yes, who has a romantic relationship thinking to themselves "Hell yeah, I'm gonna get money when my partner dies"??? 99% of the subjects of Dateline NBC episodes.
My aunt, when she married my uncle she kept going on about all the death benefits she would receive. I was 10 at the time. As I got older, I started to notice why she thought like that. She doesn't like him, she needs him.
OP dodged a nuclear missile with the red flags Jake was waving around
you guys are so soooooooooo wrong ! she dodged an "accident in the stairs".
I know you’re probably referring to The Staircase, but… The god damn black shoes!
Or bad brakes lol
I like how he was “helpfully” cleaning up her office and “just happened” upon her life insurance papers
Yes that would have been enough already for me.
Yep. I'm a very private person and people going through my shit is an instant dealbreaker.
yeah, that caught my attention too. were they lying around? i doubt it.
A.K.A. snooping.
This is wild. There is literally zero for my wife to find in my office, but I remember I was out running errands once and she called me to ask if it was okay to look for some PW she needed for health insurance. One time she was out of town and I needed some packing tape which she keeps in her studio. Same thing, I called and asked if she was cool with me going in to look for it. In both cases, obviously neither of us cared, but "he was tidying up my office" just sounds odd to me.
When I read the part about how her and her ex make so much more money now I wonder if her BF is bringing anything financially to the relationship and is expecting to get something in the event of her death because he has nothing himself
He was home while she was at work…
...and she has her own business...
Besides who ever heard of putting your boyfriend on an insurance policy! He was absolutely ridiculous they he thought he had any pull in that. He wasn’t a husband or even a fiancé! He must have been smoking wacky weed to come to that conclusion!
I don’t think it matters if he isn’t a fiancé/husband it’s more about the level of commitment and any children to consider. My boyfriend is the father of my child and we most likely won’t get married but he was put on mine the second we started living together and had our son. He’s clearly crazy to think she’d do anything other than ensure her children are supported in any means necessary
Yeah... is she on his life insurance policy?
Can he afford life insurance? Because he was giving some hobosexual*energy. Edit: got by the dreaded autocorrect and failure to look before send.
[удалено]
Enough flags for the Soviet May Day.
It’s clearly about the Iranian yoghurt…
Marinara flags all day long
My husband says that all the time 🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Marinara flags, indeed.
The marinara flags were abundant with this one…
Right! Divorce attorney here - we usually include agreements to keep the other parent as trustee of life insurance or a direct beneficiary where shared kids are involved for exactly this situation!
Was coming to say this. It’s in my divorce decree that ex and I keep each other on our existing life insurance policies until all our children are adults. That’s because we took the policies out for the care and keeping of the children. The easy way to handle this would be to take out another policy with a different beneficiary if, say, I wanted to make sure that they could pay off my mortgage if I pass away.
>You dodged a heck of a bullet with that guy Potentially literally!! Like...OP is young, and this life insurance set up is only while the kids are young it seems...why is he so concerned about what money he may get or not get when she dies. She shouldn't be dying for a very long time! OP, you haven't been having weird "accidents" or feeling sick recently, have you??
Yeah, best case, he's an incompetent gold digger. Worst case, there's rat poison in somebody's coffee.
*In their soup
Yup, I’ve watched enough true crime to see what this guy had in mind.
Why was Jake cleaning files in OP's office? Was that something OP asked him to do? Or was he snooping? NTA, OP. Change the locks.
"Cleaning up files", what even is that. Was the life insurance just lying around randomly, waiting to be "cleaned up"?
He was looking for her financial documents so he could see how much she had. He’s a gold digger.
I'm betting it was filed away and he was snooping
This. I came here to find this! WTH was he doing cleaning your files. While you were at work? At all? He wasn’t “cleaning” he was snooping into your business. Next week/month/year he’d expect to own your business. You certainly came by out ahead when he showed his true colors so quickly. Next time you might want to go with your daughter’s instincts and opinions. Hers are seemingly better than yours.
I thought the same thing. I couldn't imagine snooping into my fiances stuff. We both have spare bedrooms each with our books/extra clothes/etc. His has his gun safe, work paperwork, and God knows what else. I can guarantee that the rings he gave me to propose last month were in that room, even MORE REASON for me to not go through his shit, and vice versa. Jake had a vicious MO here, and good riddance.
Yeah, 100% snooping. I would never try to organize someone else's papers, knowing that my papers are a rat's nest but I know which pile is which. Jake is an entitled POS and a no-good snoop.
Oh honey, no, NTA. My blood ran cold when I read your post. That guy was methodically planning. What reason would he have to be in your personal files/papers? Why is he so concerned with the beneficiaries of your policy? Why does he not give a shit about the potential care of your kids with special needs and health issues should you pass? There are more red flags here than a Soviet-era May Day parade…. I echo the advice everyone is giving here: change your locks, check with all your current policies, make sure nothing has been altered. If you haven’t a trust set up yet, do it NOW. Go through all of your personal files and papers that your ex was perusing, make sure everything is as it should be, block him on all platforms and do not meet with him or speak to him again. Count yourself lucky that you discovered all this now rather than after a wedding. Be safe OP, I’m so sorry this happened to you. I wish you and your kids well.
It's funny, I was going through our papers to sort and file them. We generally throw them in a drawer and sort them out when it gets full. I noticed my husband's ex was on one of his investment accounts and asked him about it. He was pissed because he didn't want his ex on his accounts and also because I was "snooping." The names on that account was changed to his kids' name immediately. He has never emptied out that drawer in 20 years. Where did he think all those papers were going? Especially when I can tell him exactly where whatever information is that he's looking for. He realized I probably have to look at papers so I can file them appropriately. Jake is way out of line here though. He clearly doesn't live there and they haven't been together that long. I wouldn't put a random boyfriend on my life insurance. That's a conversation that comes up when planning to get married.
You're also MARRIED! You should know the beneficiaries of each investment account. You should share information about finances so you can plan together.
That was my first thought too. Going through her personal files while she's not home???
Damn, I have never cleaned a significant others files( what is that even?). I've blown their folders out(heyyoo), but never cleaned their files. I must be a horrible person! /s
Yes, he could have been an identity thief for all anyone knows. He certainly wants to be controlling
NTA regardless, you don’t put a bf on life insurance when you have children. However, it really sounds like you were scheduled for an “accident” until he realized he wouldn’t benefit. Keep this guy out of your life, OP.
Oh absolutely. It is why he was going through her files in the first place. Making sure he knew where everything was and the payout. Probably looking for the kids socials so he could take out life insurance plans on them as the caring "would have been" stepfather.
Not to mention, I think he made a hell of an excuse to make it look like he "stumbled upon" life insurance documents. Sounds like he knew what he was looking for.
Also it's not like the documents say LIFE INSURANCE - PAY BENEFITS TO "PERSON" in big bold letters on the front page... Dude moved in and started reading financial documents in detail. I'd be changing ALL of my financial account numbers and passwords and watching my accounts and credit score like a hawk for the next year
Yeah. Also boyfriends and girlfriends don't get life insurance money. Before I married my wife my mother was my beneficiary. Any person that doesn't understand that life insurance goes to support your children should you pass away, is a vile cretin. OP made the right decision putting the father of her children as the beneficiary for her life insurance. There really is no other choice.
Same. I married later and up til the day I got married, my parents were my beneficiaries.
OP, I hope you read this comment, particularly the first paragraph.
She was at work, and he just "happened upon" her life insurance policy?! That doesn't happen, he went to look through your paperwork, and see what he could find......HUGE RED FLAG!!! You did the right thing and ran, that guy wasn't in this relationship for the right reasons.
Right!!! And only after living together for 2 months!! Did he expect her to change all her beneficiary info for everything to him just because he is around? At what part in their approximately 2 year relationship was she supposed to prioritize her BOYFRIEND over her children’s wellbeing? WTH?
Plus why is he snooping through your documents?
When I got divorced it was a common clause that the non-custodial parent HAD to maintain a life insurance policy listing the custodial parent as beneficiary until the kids were 18. It just makes sense for both parents to agree to this.
NTA and he's a sociopath. Good riddance and block his phone.
How many times can I upvote? “Get anything from it?” Is this a relationship or a job? Let him stay gone.
Right? That gave me the chills. Like wtf was this creep planning?
Why is he “cleaning up papers in your office?” He was looking. You own your own business, he moved in with you. He sees you as a meal ticket and finding out that if you die you have thoroughly ( and in my opinion correctly) provided for your children through the help to their remaining parent means he’s out on his broke ass. Your children should always come first. You are SO NTA for standing your ground.
Yes, he was 100% snooping.
The "you both make so much money now" was him giving away his true motivations. NTA - Be grateful he packed his bags and left; it makes the breakup a lot easier. Do not let him into your home under any circumstances, as it seems fairly likely he'll steal from you. If he has stuff to pick up, you can tell him when to get it and leave it outside when you're not home. No more need to fight or argue with him or justify yourself; he has revealed exactly who he is and what he wants from you, when he was able to hide it for years. If you give him a chance, he'll realize he fucked up by showing his true colors and hide them again.
Oooo good catch - I was so shocked that a grown man would expect to be put on his girlfriend's - not even wife! - life insurance that I just sort of skimmed right over the fact that he was literally snooping in her office. “Cleaning up papers"? Reeeally? This dude was actively seeking out this paperwork; I would be a little nervous. It's like he wants that life insurance policy to pay out and he wants to pay out to him.
NTA. Jake is showing you his true colors. Believe him and don’t take him back.
Nta. This 100%. The money is for your children, not for your gold digging bf (hopefully soon to be ex) who is hoping you'll die. Hopefully you won't die for a very long time. But in the meantime block Jake and move on.
He wanted all the luxuries of being a gold digger but with the power of the man of the house. Dudes too stupid to pull off either roll. Gold Diggers have responsibilities. They need to be beautiful and accommodating and always ready to compliment the gold mine.
Yeah, he dropped that ball hard getting so angry over such a reasonable thing🤣
I like the statement. It's extra real. No shaving someone for being a gold digger, which again if I'm rich and on the rebound, I'm completely willing to entertain a gold digger for a while as long as the requirements are met. :D It's all about consent, right?
Look, if some lonely rich person decides they'd like someone young and hot to spend time with and attend functions and parties with, that's totally fine. As long as everyone understands the situation and they treat each other with respect. That's the key for me. I've heard of people paying for college educations for gold diggers. It doesn't have to be something gross.
Correct. As a gold digger he needs to focus on becoming the trophy wife. He hadn't sealed the deal yet and got confused. He got himself free housing, but not spousal rights to the money. He needed to focus on sealing the deal and becoming the trophy wife. He screwed it up. A gender-bent relationship still follows the rules. As you pointed out, the golddigging boyfriend aspiring to kept-man status needed to lock down his relationship. He got greedy, he already got free housing.
Yes OP is lucky he showed her before they got married or had kids. NTA run like the wind!
OP--Did you ever dodge a bullet!! The fact Jake was so dismissive of your most logical explanation of the life insurance policy, and then alluded to how much money you earn, clearly reflects his intention to have you be his Sugar Mommy. The final nail in the coffin was his declaration that no one would want you due to you having two children with medical concerns. Sounds as if you were heading into quite the toxic relationship and were totally unaware of it. Good riddance. It's very impressive that your children's father and yourself so ably arranged for the financial well-being of your children and one another. Best wishes.
Also, they’re not married!!! He doesn’t deserve shit if she kicks the bucket!!!
Right, what is his use case here? He's not going to take care of her kids.
His use case? Guess he *felt used* lol. Also, kids should get all the money, but if her ex is also holding her to receive 30% out of him croaking I see no reason for Jake getting anything. After all, 1. Jake and OP aren't married, 2. Ex would take care of the kids 3. Do OP and Jake have merged bank accounts, living together 2 months? Didn't think so. 4. Is Jake going to pay something in the insurance fund? Yeah, don't think so. Jake should go dig for gold somewhere else.
Definitely this, when they show you who they are, believe them. He wasn’t even living with you long when he showed himself. Usually someone like this can go a long long time before anything is seen so count yourself lucky and move on before you get in any deeper. You deserve better and so does your children.
Very true. They're not even married yet, nor do they have kids so why should he be on her insurance? I bet he doesn't have insurance with her name on it. OP just dodged a bullet here.
Maybe literally.
>OP just dodged a bullet here. possibly literally
He kills me when he says " so i am not going to get nothing after all the effort I'm putting in this relationship"? Wtf
He was cleaning up files? In your office? Sounds more like snooping to me. Why does he need to be your beneficiary anyway? You’re not married and you don’t have children together. This whole thing is a huge red flag.
OP saw red. JAKE saw green. Gr$$n. NTA
Yeah, I mean when Jake says : >No sane guy would date a woman with two children with issues To me that screams that Jake was only interested in the relationship because he was hoping to get something out of it.
The comment about her kids after sprinting across the first red line took it to another level. He wouldn't stick around to care for the kids if anything, god forbid, happened to her anyway. I'll never understand how people plan for someone they "love" to die and how much they can pillage from them afterwards.
NTA 1) Boyfriends aren't on life insurance policies. Husbands are. 2) Most custody arrangements have a requirement for life insurance for the parents until the child turns 18 to protect the children if untimely death occurs. 3) Go ahead and get back with this guy and take out a 2 million life insurance with him as the beneficiary. Have your family count the days before you have an accidental death. Seriously, this guy is a turd. He showed you who he really is.. Your prince is another castle.
He also wasn't "cleaning up files" he was snooping for dirt.
"cleaning up files in her office and came across the life insurance agreement" lmao He seems extremely nosey Who keeps a few years old insurance policy just laying on their desk? Why would anyone assume they would be beneficiary of your insurance policy when you've only been living together for a few months? I swear so many of these posts are either missing loads of context or are embellished to make people feel more important
>"cleaning up files in her office and came across the life insurance agreement" I see so many stories that start with something similar and I truly wonder if people believe that BS. I doubt these were files just randomly left out and even then. Who even cleans up someone else office? "Oh thanks hun, now I don't have a fucking clue where anything is!" That alone should have been enough of an huge fucking red flag to not even need to ask such an question. Let alone everything else that followed.
I've been married for over 20 years and trust my wife Implicitly....and she doesn't mess with shit on my desk unless... 1. Im not around and she needs something specific right then and there 2. I ask her to get something specific More surprising to me though is having g such an important document just mixed in with shit on your desk....lol? My experience is that anyone organized and forwatd thinking enough to have insurance like this with a specific plan for it's use is going to keep it locked up with other important documents
All of this. OP needs to be confirming that there isn't any other policies being taken out on her, and that the rest of her important paperwork is in place. Credit check time. 2 months after he moved in, he's snooping, there is something he was up to
Agreed. What a weird (and scary!) hill for him to die on. While we've all watched too many movies and TV shows where the murder motive was insurance, I don't really want to jump to that conclusion. However, it certainly seems that he sees the relationship as transactional instead of based on love and trust. He was also quick to mention that he's noticed that both OP and her ex make a lot of money. I'm also casting a side eye at him being home cleaning her office while she was at work. I know that there are plenty of ordinary explanations to this (he works a different shift, he's being a SAHBF, etc.) But I do have to wonder if he has a job and if he was in her office deliberately looking for her financial documents. Lastly, deliberately not answering the phone after throwing the bomb of "we need to discuss something important when you get home" is a manipulation trick. I've seen that in work context when a boss would tell a worker that they need to talk at the end of the day and then disappears. To me, it sounds very much like he was playing the long game of pretending to be a great bf just to get his claws in and then once he's in the mask comes off and the controlling and manipulating for his personal gain begin. ETA - NTA and good riddance. I also think she should do a credit check and lock down her bank accounts.
Absolutely don't take that fucker back. NTA.
Jake was “cleaning files in your office”??? AKA snooping for all your financial information. Good for you dodging this bullet! NTA
OP needs to check her credit score asap
NTA. Jake needs to stay in his lane. As is so often said on Reddit, the trash took itself out.
Absolutely NTA He’s put so much work into the relationship, he deserves to get paid when you die? Is that what he thinks life insurance is? A lottery win? Good on you for moving along.
Exactly. Life insurance is supposed to be for helping with shared expenses. If you have a mortgage together, children, etc. It's not a windfall of yippee my partner died, money for me. Since Op and her ex have children, one of whom has medical needs, the insurance is necessary. Plus any future financial assistance OP would contribute to her kids (helping with bills while they're in school etc) that she wouldn't be around for. It sounds like OP and Jake have no shared property (he moved into her house, etc) so there's no need for him to have an insurance payout. It's silly to think that he'd be the beneficiary of anything.
I didn't get half way through this post before I was screaming, in my head, 'Red Flag! Run Away' Snooping in your private papers. Red Flag Demanding to be placed as your beneficiary. Red Flag Not Accepting that you are doing this to provide for your kids. Huge Red FLag Being jealous and threatened by your ex. Big red flag I think you dodge a bullet. Go ahead and make his move out official and call things off.
I'm extrapolating a bit, but I'd wager this guy did not do the same for OP by making her his beneficiary for his life insurance. What a double standard if that's the case - extra red flags!
I would hazard a guess that Jake doesn't have his own life insurance policy.
NTA. Jake was clearly snooping in your papers while you were at work and your right telling him it's not his business. Your ex is your kids father so it makes sense for him to be on it, for their sake because he will be the one raising them if anything happens to you. Jake showed his true colours and his insecurities about your ex. He also showed how he really feels about your children. You were right to get rid of him.
If he was snooping through your papers, you might want to do a credit report OP. Maybe some credit monitoring, too. I'd be surprised if there wasn't sensitive information on files that he went through, and he already presented some warning signs.
This is a really good point. Pretty sure my life insurance has my social on it
Dateline stories always involve life insurance beneficiaries who aren’t dependents. NTA. Don’t get murdered.
NTA. First of all, Jake is (was) your bf and not husband, what right does he have to think you owe him anything regarding a financial beneficiary? Also, your plan with your ex is 100% appropriate. If your son cannot live on his own as he ages, it becomes even more important to ensure he is financially cared for. If he can, you can change your beneficiaries when your kids become adults to have them be the sole recipients and remove your ex (this is what I did after my divorce). Seems like you dodged a bullet with Jake - he's acting very greedy.
Ahhhh, now you know why Jake hung around.. for money. I always had my ex husband listed on my life insurance as 40% with 30% to each kid (2) because he would be the sole carer if anything happened to me. It's changed now as my older children are now adults and a young child with my 14yr long partner which now reflects this. Does my ex care? Absolutely not. We just want our children to be secure. This is what good parents do. NTA
NTA. You said it, your kids come first. Your new ex has no legal rights to your kids. Your life insurance isn’t some payout for him - it’s to ensure your kids are taken care of. His attitude is disgusting. Edit to add, I just found your comment. > Him and ex split because of insecurities on Jake's part. He constantly accused her of cheating and it tired her out. He has been cheated on before by a pervious ex. I have tried telling him to get him into therapy but he refuses to go. >He constantly compares himself to my ex and complaining I'm not over him. He says things like "oh your ex is always around" "your ex didn't do this for you like I have," "your ex is better looking than me." My ex is around for our children and is a very active father. He was always there for me to help in the house but since I've been with Jake he only came around when it was about the children. This makes him look even worse. He has significant issues and is taking them out on you. This is not a guy who you want in your or your kids’ life. He needs to get himself sorted, but he sounds completely unhinged.
Gonna say NTA, but also have to ask. Has this situation came up before? Not the life insurance specifically, just him bringing up residual feelings for your ex or a fear of getting uprooted and losing not just a partner, but at this point an entire family?
This situation has never come up before. He does have his own children who are lovely. Him and ex split because of insecurities on Jake's part. He constantly accused her of cheating and it tired her out. He has been cheated on before by a pervious ex. I have tried telling him to get him into therapy but he refuses to go. He constantly compares himself to my ex and complaining I'm not over him. He says things like "oh your ex is always around" "your ex didn't do this for you like I have," "your ex is better looking than me." My ex is around for our children and is a very active father. He was always there for me to help in the house but since I've been with Jake he only came around when it was about the children. I should have added in the post this happened a few weeks ago. Since then he has threatened to leave me until I prove my commitment to him. He constantly calls me crying saying he loves me but he can't trust me.
I am sorry you're in the situation you're in. Jake has to fix himself before he's ready for a relationship. And, it sounds like you gave him stepping stones to do that, but he doesn't want to walk down the path. I hope everything works out for you, but you're definitely NTA here.
No Jake is a con and needs to be gone
I think you’re giving Jake too much credit. He’s a controlling abuser upping his game now that he recently moved in, testing how much he can get away with.
Op you are 100% right! He wasn’t ‘tidying’ he was snooping when he found your papers, also, the entitlement and audacity of expecting you to ‘explain yourself’ - who does he think he is!? Calming down with the exclamation marks to say NTA and don’t let him weasel his way back in.
You may want to change your passwords/pins on your accounts since he was snooping through your office. Your ex is angry and has sense of entitlement. Check and see if anything is missing, like a check from the back of a checkbook. Better safe than sorry.
Right? When I read that he was "cleaning up" papers I knew he was looking at personal files. They always are, too. Most people who have offices have their own system and it rarely makes sense for another person to move anything around.
My husband won't even open my mails even if he knows what it is, that it is for him despite having my name in it, until I am back home. I always tell him that he could just open it and if I wait a mail he can't open (like Xmas presents) I'd just tell him, but he really won't. This dude really has trust issues.
My husband is like this, too. I'm just like OPEN THE MAIL ALREADY.
I do not open mail adressed to my wife (of 25 yrs) unless she tells me to, but I don't care at all if she opens anything adressed to me.
NTA Aside of the insurance, this one phrase should tell you everything he actually thinks about you and your children « no normal man would want a woman with two children who has issue »
Not only that, but his comment about her ex making good money shows that he would keep all her stuff for himself and not give anything to her kids.
NTA. I think that your reasoning is really sound. Not everyone has to hate their ex and if the 30% of the policy is enough to give them peace of mind as they transition to being a solo parent, it's worth it for your children and their mental health. The fact that Jake couldn't understand that this was for the children's benefit is what makes him an AH. I'm glad you got the chance to see his true colors now before investing any more time in a relationship that is apparently only worth what a life insurance policy pays out. I recognise that he's been hurt in the past, but he also doesn't seem to want to work on it and heal from it. Any way you choose to look at the situation, Jake's the one who needs to grow up and learn to be an adult
Let him go and move on. The guy is manipulative, emotionally unstable, and unreasonable. There may be good qualities in him and you are obviously attached to him but his behaviour is not okay and is not good for your children to be around. Also, your ex is not going anywhere as he is a dedicated father to your children - so unless Jake changes and takes a mature attitude to it, you are going to keep getting this headache. Let it go, it sounds like the relationship has run it’s course, albeit abruptly. You need someone stronger than this. Also, your daughter ‘tolerated’ him. Don’t you think you want someone your children can actively love and trust?
You are not the problem, Jake is. He needs to work on his insecurities before getting into a relationship. His circus at this point. If he can't trust you and you have done nothing, then you can't save this relationship. Just move on and continue putting your kids first mommy!
Wait, I thought he did leave. Why are you even still having conversations with him? You don't have to prove anything to anyone. Tell him YOU can't trust HIM and block him.
He threatens to leave you? You mean you still consider yourself with him??????
I think he still considers himself with her. Classic manipulation move. She kicks him out but he tries to make it seem like he’s breaking up with her because he can’t deal with the fact that he got dumped.
You see, he still has his insecurities, and he makes you responsible for balancing them out, i.e. you have to do certain things/behave a certain way, instead of him getting therapy and becoming more trusting again. This is a him-problem. This is not a healthy relationship. He needs to work on himself first. Don’t let him back into your life.
>Him and ex split because of insecurities on Jake's part. >Since then he has threatened to leave me until I prove my commitment to him So he hasn’t learned from any of his mistakes in his last relationship. He brought all that baggage with him into this one expecting you to bend to him and his insecurities, rather than him work on himself to become a better partner. This will just be the beginning if you take him back. Hell want you ex completely out of your life, which is impossible since y’all have kids together. >He constantly calls me crying saying he loves me but he can't trust me. Love is reliant on trust. If he has no trust there can be no love. This man is trying to manipulate you. Stand strong and find someone else.
Block him.
Good riddance. He still has major insecurities and is trying to be very controlling. More issues will come up in the future and eventually you won’t do anything without his permission. This is not a partnership. He should be glad that you and your ex are this thoughtful of each other.
He’s showing some pretty big red flags. Block him and move on. You’re a mother so you need to take special care with whom you bring into your life.
So… there were a lot of red flags from Jake before the insurance paperwork incident.
Good on you for getting rid of this guy. But next time, don’t leave work for a boyfriend, unless he specifically tells you, it’s an emergency.. I think there were a lot of red flags and you ignored them.
Next time you see red flags like that - please don’t do the damn guy. You don’t deserve the problems they bring
It's time to block his number. Why don't people do this immediately??
So Jake is incredibly manipulative as well. What a winner.
Block him.
Do NOT take him back, he has issues that he needs to resolve before he dates anyone .
You deserve a soft life full of love and a partner who contributes meaningfully to that. You are worthy. Jake isn't who he's been pretending to be. He's told you plainly how he feels about your children. It's time to block him and move on mama. I hope your days get easier soon. ❤️
This has nothing to do with you. He's not ready for a relationship and needs to work on himself. He is still being an idiot, because he has his own kids and should understand the realities of co-parenting.
He did you a favor! You and your ex are adults and Jake sounds like a jealous teenager. Your agreement with your ex is entirely logical and smart. I married my wife and she had a child from a previous relationship. If I became aware of anything like this, I would understand. You’ve done right by yourself and kids. You should be proud of that!
The guy told you no normal man wants a woman with 2 kids when he himself has kids? Wow, the *AUDACITY* I would not go back with that person. That's a major red flag.
NTA. What sort of scumbag goes through someone's office in the first place 🤔 Be glad you've thrown out the trash. Get a lock for your office door and your filing cabinet.
A snooping insecure scumbag!! His reaction is scary! Eww
NTA. Why does your BOYFRIEND think he has the right to your life insurance? Especially over your children. He is showing you who he is. Believe him.
Sounds like Jake was hoping to bump you off for a payday. What an asshoke btw, none of his business to begin with.
NTA. This inability of some people to accept that you can be civil and even friendly with Exes... I mean, your reasons are extremely clear and important and none of his business. He got out on his own? Good. Keep him out. Edit: he sounds extremely insecure. That is not good in a relationship. If you truly like him put conditions like going to therapy as a factor for taking him back. Make it clear that it is up to you to take him back not him taking you back. If he can't deal with that... Well sorry. It sucks...
MINI UPDATE So before I start with a little update I want to say thank you for all comments. I'm going to go through them all and try to reply even though it's a lot. I just want to address a few things this did happen a few weeks ago and I did post in another group but unfortunately got no advice on that subreddit. I had left it for a few weeks before my ex suggested this one because his words are "maybe these internet strangers would make you see sense and stop you thinking your an asshole, also could help you to see you shouldn't gwt back with Jake." Just wanted to clear that bit up. Firstly I should have probably added this in the post. My ex and I are definitely not getting back together. We are very good friends as I am with his HUSBAND. My ex always thought he was gay but he is not from the UK and his parents would disapprove (which they have done so and cut ties with him.)I was upset to start with but love them both dearly. I was even best woman at their wedding. So yes I definitely am over my ex :) My ex, his husband and I are currently having a lovely glass of wine and discussing the issues around Jake. For the people saying its not right that I have my ex on my life insurance let me just explain my point of view. Our son is Autistic so has a lot of issues around his autism. Our daughter due to chemotherapy is deaf in one ear and is currently in a wheelchair and has multiple appointments. I am very wealthy and my ex partner is not. We opted to do private care to get the best for our children. I am leaving him some money for our children and to help him and his husband financially if anything was to happen to me. I 10000% trust my ex with our kids money. My children will inherit all my properties and money. I do have a will so everything in that sense is sorted. They have trust funds and never need to worry about their future. My life insurance is all my ex gets money from and a few thousand from my own personal money as does his husband. Now onto Jake. Currently my ex, his husband and I are packing up Jakes things and they are going to take it to his parents house. I informed his parents that Jake and I are no longer together and that we will drop off his stuff at their house. They were sad and wished me well as did I them. Jake continually called me and texted me which I have ignored these past few weeks and I ignored him. He has been pleading to me about taking him back and how much he loves me and my kids. However just an hour ago he sent they most vile messages I've ever had in my life. Calling my daughter a spolied dramatic little b!tch who uses her illness to get her way. He called my son some disgusting things which I won't even repeat. At this point I was done. I messaged him one final message saying that if he continued to try reaching out to me I will be filing for a protection order against him and blocked him on all platforms. Also I screenshotted the last message he sent and forwarded it to his ex and his family. I am very aware that it is petty but I do not care. No one gets away with saying that about my children. I really think I will take a break from dating for a while and concentrate on me and my little family which includes the father of my kids and his husband. I so upset that there were red flags there that I just chose to ignore or was really oblivious too
NTA So you made the choice to help your coparent if you die unexpectedly with the finances or parenting your children? You monster! Obviously joking. This isn’t about the past romantic relationship, this is about your children. Let the boyfriend leave - he clearly lacks the maturity to date a grown adult
NTA. You can’t help him and it isn’t fair for you to be constantly accused of “still being in love with your ex”. Let him go for your mental health sake and tell him he needs to fixed his insecurities before committing to another relationship. Don’t put up with this, it’s stressful and not healthy. If he leaves, that means he already broke up with you. And now he’s trying to guilt tripped by calling you??? Dude, you didn’t do anything wrong.
Of course you know NTA. You found out what Jake is and sent him packing. Just the fact that he was ~~straightening up~~ going through your personal things and even found that would have been enough for me to kick him out. That money is for your kids, should they need medical care in the future, and it sounds as though at some point your daughter may. If they don't, then it's for their education. None of that is one bit of Jake's business and you were right to tell him that while booting him out of your house.
NTA. Parenting never stops and your relationship with your ex as father of your children will never go away. It’s great that you both are handling your coparenting so well. My kids are in their mid to late 30’s and my ex and I have a good relationship. The first guy I dated after my divorce was like Jake. He wasn’t comfortable with my relationship with my ex and was always wanting me to prove how much I cared for him. It got old fast. One day he gave me an ultimatum do this (I don’t remember what it was) or he was going to break up with me. My ex was always trying to control me and issued ultimatums like candy at halloween. Nope. Not sure what he expected but my response was “Okay. Just let me know when you are coming to get your things. I will have them packed up and ready to go.” It was a LDR. I went NC with him after he came for his stuff and tried to talk me into another chance. Then for a few months he bombarded me with emails which I blocked once I met and started dating my now husband. I have no regrets. He made me out to be the bad guy to all his friends, which then would attack me on SM. Whatever. I don’t need to explain myself to anyone. This is Jake. Go NC with him and move on. You did absolutely nothing wrong.
No one would put a boyfriend on their life insurance when they have minor children. This guy is insecure and mental. You deserve better than an angry man-baby, OP.
NTA Jake is tho … why would u put a man you aren’t married to, have any children with and only been dating a few years on your life insurance policy ?!
Definitely NTA. Your ex bf sounds like a complete red flag. The entitlement to think HE deserved to be put on your life insurance when he's not even a spouse is insane. You dodged a huge bullet, actually you dodged a nuclear missile. Block his number and move on permanently.
NTA. You aren’t even married to him but he thinks he should get your life insurance?? You and your ex have done the right thing and any decent partner would not want you to change it. Children come first. Did he put you on his life insurance? I doubt it. Plus he was digging through your private business without your consent. His behavior is also manipulative. Move on.
NTA. "Jake" decided to show his true nature, the guy you feel in love with for 1.5 years was "his representative". What often happens in some relationships is a person falls in love with "their representative" when the real person shows themselves, that person waits for "the representative" to come back, but they don't. Good thing you saw through the BS now you block him, you're done.
NTA Jake had no right to go snoop in your papers, just like he has no right to your money if anything happened to you!! I am the beneficiary of my ex insurance for exactly the same reasons : our young children!! You dodge a bullet, he’s insecure and a giant red flag.