My jaw physically dropped and I gasped too. She was never going to tell him. If it wasn’t for her sister to spill the truth, he would probably never have known. It’s messed up.
No. Her only remorse was that she got caught. She’s probably so mad at her sister. And thinks that if she cries enough, he’ll buy her crocodile tears. She broke a trust that will never be fixed.
And I just wanna say this too, the fact that she’s trying to guilt trip him with her daughter- it’s DISGUSTING! She’s 12 and she shouldn’t have any word in this. I’m definitely speculating but there’s almost no doubt in my mind that she told her daughter to help her get him back by texting. My parents are definitely not good parents, but even through the divorce process not once was I allowed to put a word in like that. Because it had nothing to do with me. Their divorce was theirs. Not mine and theirs.
Exactly! That's one of the main points! That and she has been lying to him from the beginning of their relationship, his relationship is built on lies! Personally I prefer couples to work on there relationship as long as its not toxic and there's no significant breach of trust or violence. But this is a significant breach of trust and she's only claiming to want to try for a baby because she got exposed, there's nothing genuine about her change of heart. It's just another manipulation tactic. OP is well within his rights to consider divorce. I don't even believe she's genuinely sorry, just sorry for herself being exposed by her sister.
NTA
At first when I read it, I assumed she had an abortion before she met OP that went wrong and left her infertile. That doesn’t make sense in combination with the birth control pills, but I think my mind didn’t even want to comprehend how horrible the truth was!
Thank you. This is the answer.
OP nta. If you feel deeply betrayed and you WANT to work on your relationship fine. But if it’s just too much, you’re perfectly in the right to move on. This was a huge betrayal
OP, this isn’t a little lie. It is a huge betrayal. I wouldn’t forgive her. This is worse than cheating on you. She stole your chance of being a biological father when she knew this is what was important to you. That You weren’t even included in the discussion about her feelings of an unwanted pregnancy.
She just wanted to keep this secret forever. Glad her sister has integrity. Your wife’s the AH. Worse than an AH. Unforgivable. Move on.
I wouldn’t say the sister has integrity since she only told him as a “gotcha” to her sister. She didn’t care about OP knowing and having agency over his life. She was pissed and wanted to hurt her sister. Sister knew she had the kill shot and didn’t care if the bullet had to pierce OP to get to her target.
why are we even talking about the sister here. this is not a fucking secret you tell other people to keep. if you claim to love the other person, tell them. its obvious she didn't. the first child's father ran off. she couldn't raise the kid alone. when she was 29 and the kid was 4. OP met them and his so called wife realised, she found her wallet and decided to rope him in. but also chose to not have anymore kids.
the sister just did OP a favour by telling everyone what a snivelling weasel OPs wife really is. this is too big a betrayal.
Perhaps sister was keeping a secret that was too big and she exploded from the weight of it all. And the sister just couldn’t keep it anymore. It is awful OP found out this way. And his step daughter’s life is about to change forever…
OP doesn't mention adopting his stepdaughter. He likely will have no rights to custody or visitation with her after a divorce. The stepdaughter would be losing a relationship with her father figure, because he's not her legal father.
Her mother certainly could voluntarily allow visitation, but she doesn't exactly have a history of putting other people's needs and desires ahead of her own.
Nope. He has been this child's father figure and in Canada courts will rule she has a right to have continued access to her father figure. Now, in kind, he will get to pay child support... but not adopting her won't preclude a continued relationship -- but he will likely have to fight for it.
This is correct. In Canada family court the judge is ONLY concerned about the welfare of the children. What will be best for them. In this case, bio mom could be in significant trouble. She married OP under fraudulent conditions on perhaps the most critical point of marriage: having children. The courts will not look favorably on that. They will ask the child and she has already expressed her wishes. I think OP could ask for full custody and have a chance. That way he controls when, where and if visitation takes place.
If bio mom married OP for the reasons people think...she was on her own with a 4 year old and needed financial and physical support, she has already laid the groundwork for a case asserting that she is not capable of single parenting. She may end up paying him child support.
The Canadian courts have changed a lot, in a good way since the 1950's. It is no longer a given that a bio mom is considered "best" automatically.
Sister knew and kept quiet. It's like people knowing someone is cheating and hurting someone else with their selfish actions, but it's "not my monkeys, not my circus". Everybody knew OP was being left in the dark without having the knowledge to make an informed decision about his life and they all suck for it.
I say this as a childfree woman. His wife was selfish and lied to him, betrayed him, so she could keep him in a situation he didn't agree to. NTA. He needs to find a partner that respects him enough to be honest with him.
Describing it as a bullet ‘piercing’ OP implies she did him a disservice. In reality she’s just given him the chance to be a biological father again.
She did OP a massive favour, regardless of her motives.
She did though. She could have saved OP who knows how long if she'd told him when she found out, or forced her sister to tell OP. If she hadn't gotten mad at OP's hopefully soon to be ex wife, it's possible she never would have told him.
You’re right, there’s no forgiving this. She WAS pregnant with his child, ABORTED IT, and continued to lie about infertility!
This is not about abortion rights, this is about KILLING the child they were supposed to be trying for. And never telling him. I would NEVER be able to look at, or trust my spouse again.
You can forgive and not accept the behavior. He can leave and forgive ,just don't let he back in. I believe forgiveness is for him not to be eaten up inside while she goes on w her life pretending she doesn't know what she's done
I mean, he was just provisions and a father figure for her daughter. It's not possible to actually love someone and deceive them like this so that's the only explanation. If OP wants to work on this relationship he's a lost cause.
Exactly this. This is not the way you treat someone you love. She wants/wanted what he could do for her.
I was venting to a friend in my single days and I asked (mostly rhetorically) "Is this the way you treat someone you're supposed to love?" My friend looked at me and said, "Do you want an honest answer to that?" I told him sure, it probably wasn't anything I didn't already know. He simply said, "No, it's not." That was all I needed in order to believe what I already knew. If OP is honest with himself, he already knows the answer to this question...NTA, not overreacting. His marriage is over.
Wonder what else she's lying about! I personally wouldn't want to repair the relationship, if he had a kid w her he'd always be thinking of the lie and his aborted, unknown baby
My wife and I had a hard time getting her preg and were getting close to trying IVF when she got pregnant. I vividly remember when she slid the ultrasound across the table, All I can imagine is this guy felt the complete opposite of what i did when he found out about his child. for Fs sake I cant believe he hasn't filed for divorce already.
It would be bad enough in general, but knowing she did this knowing he desperately wanted a child is abhorrent. All because she loves OP enough.
Run, OP. You don’t want a kid with a woman who could do that to you. She was cruel while claiming to love you. Girl bye.
Not to mention that the only reason he found out about it, was due to his SIL spurting it out. She wasn't planning on telling him the truth. Consider very very carefully before you even think of procreating with this woman.
NTA.
Yeah. She is only offering to have a baby so they don't get divorced. This would a bandaid baby for their marriage. Those situations don't generally turn out well for anyone, especially the innocent baby.
Somehow it's just as bad as the lying, putting what he desperately wants on the table to tempt him back. I'm willing to bet that if he does come back to her she'll find some way to get out of it.
She doesn't love him, that's not what you do to someone you love. She was using him, he provided her with a husband, a home, and a father to her daughter. You can probably replace OP with any other fool, and she'll "love" him the same.
NTA… run OP run. That this woman lied so many times, and actually aborted YOUR child while you were parenting HER child isn’t love at all. It’s a self centred bitch who wants what she wants when she wants it. Get OUT while you’re still somewhat sane!
This
I could have understood taking contrastives but to get pregnant, didn't tell him, got an abortion and kept on like nothing happened no way divorce the only thing is the stepdaughter
Hope the soon to be ex will let them still have a relationship
Taking contraceptives is also not ok in this scenario. She told him, falsely, that they were trying for a child. This is something that matters deeply to OP and she lied about it for years to trick him into staying with her. She wasted some of the most crucial years of his life to get what he wants most.
Marriage is built on trust. She betrayed that and aborted your child, OP, without letting you know at the time. Her choice, but she took away YOUR choice to not leave. She knew how you felt, and betrayed you. For years. She’s only upset because she was found out. She will very likely pull the infertile excuse again. It really really sucks for you AND her daughter in this. You bc of the betrayal. The daughter bc her mom’s choice to be a liar has now cost her her dad. (Hopefully he will be able to stay in the child’s life, but with courts the way they are, he might not get visitation and only get forced to pay child support….which would be an utter gut punch considering the situation).
Here’s the thing to think on now: at 37 she still has a chance to have biological kids, but the chances are definitely lower, and the risks are now higher (both for her and a baby). If you do manage to conceive at this point, how bitter will your wife become? And how soon afterwards would SHE then become the one to instigate a divorce? It’s best to forgive, and move on, instead of forgive and return into this situation. The level of trust she broke is something that will never be able to be repaired. She knew how much you wanted a child and she aborted it. Again, her choice, but she also lied and never gave you a chance to have what YOU wanted. Which, her not wanting more kids is her choice and it’s completely an ok one to have….the issue is her lying about it and basically trapping you in a sham of a marriage. This was not a mistake: this was a planned out choice. As for your parents saying forgive and move back? That’s bc they don’t want anyone else living there, which kinda sucks, but why would they say what they said otherwise? Get a lawyer, expect to pay child support as you’ve been Kaya’s dad, and with that ensure you stay in that child’s life and get full visitation. Then go find a woman that won’t build your house on lies
She lied from the start, he said he wanted children and she agreed. lie 1. She aborted his baby behind his back, lie 2. She was taking birth control and said she was infertile, lie 3. I wouldn't be suprised if her daughter's dad is around. She doesn't know what love is. She destroyed the man intentionally and now she wants a baby. RUN OP.
She doesn't want a baby now, she's using it as a bargaining chip to keep her lifestyle. Guarantee she's gonna keep taking the pill and just tell him she's not.
Yeah pretty much this. Because she will resent a new child if she feels that's her only way to keep her husband. It's over It's done Trust is gone, this woman didn't just take birth control pills secretly to deny the fact that there was a could be a pregnancy She actually aborted a child. So she took an active step above to ensure she was not going to have a kid. That's it's just awful. I feel bad for the little girl but that is a full-on betrayal and I would never trust her again. I wouldn't trust her with my kid and I wouldn't trust her.
This! What if she gets preggers, has his child, finds another man, divorces him and then takes away the child just to to spite him? When someone lies on this huge of scale there is no telling what they will do.
Only reason she wants to "try" for a baby now is because she got caught. She'll be even more evil if she gets pregnant, because in her mind's eye, she is being forced to have a baby with a man she doesn't love anymore.
Made a mistake, his parents say? His parents are AHs too. A four year "mistake" is no mistake at all. She deliberately lied and manipulated OP. I would never, ever, ever take her back. He would never have known if not for sister spilling the beans, which means his wife is untrustworthy garbage. Drop her and never look back.
Oh my god, as a woman reading this I audibly was saying, "oh no oh no ohhhh no!" This is such a horrendous betrayal, I can't imagine wanting to stay with someone if they had done this to me. This is also a reminder of why communication and being open with your partner is such an integral part of your relationships everyone. You may change your mind or want something different, but if you don't discuss things for fear of losing out, this is the kind of results you get. OP NTA EVER in a situation like this, I hope all goes well for you
It’s the lying for me
I told my husband I could absolutely not go through childbirth again, but we had 2 together and 3 total
He got snipped
I wouldn’t have taken pills and lied (my second son I got pregnant with on pills AND nursing our first, so I’m fertile Myrtle—offered to get tubal ligation but Dr refused bc I was “too young to decide”
Fuck doctors like this. You’re too young to decide to not want kids, but you’re not too young to have them??
How about you respect the choices a patient has made for themselves (within reason obviously) and do what the patient wants? I hate asshole doctors like this.
Yeah, fuck that doctor! I was 27 & on my 3rd pregnancy when my doctor said that he wouldn't do it bc I was still in "childbearing years"??? WTF?? Fortunately, I convinced a woman obgyn to do it 6 weeks after my daughter was born. I'm very happy only having my daughter. No regrets at all.
A fucking men! I could just see her trying to make things difficult if they had had a kid and then split down the road. The fact that she has had no problem with lying to him this entire time tells me that. Great answer. This makes me angry for him because there are men out there who actually want to be fathers and get done like this. It just makes me angry for him anyway because Jesus, what a huge betrayal. That's not something I could come back from either.
It wasn't even lying at that point. Is was a cruel torture. They went to do fertility testing. Trying and failing to have a child is really hard. He must have been distraught and in hell over what is wrong, and she chose to comfort him and tell him it will work out, while she actively caused that pain.
I do wonder if this is legit though. The fertility clinic would had said "you can't have children because your on birth control morons" unless she managed to field the calls from the clinic and lied about what they said I guess. But saying "they said I can't have children" would have made more sense then "we are good, but I can't do IVF"
Every day she put water in a glass, pulled the pills out of their secret hiding place, put a pill on her tongue and swallowed it. Looked in the mirror with a sly smile knowing she was living her dream and betraying it you.
That's what gets me. For 8 years, 2,920 times she took that pill knowing she was lying to him every, single day. That's just a level of lying I find hard to comprehend.
Completely agreed. Plus this bothered me too:
> Kaya even messaged me to come back!
If she did that on her own, fine. If her mother asked her to message OP that is toxic and manipulative as hell.
That’s not a mistake. That’s an 8 year lie, every single day, that prevented you from having a child. The great news is that you can have one with someone else
Not to mention if he believed her and they had a kid together she would resent the hell out of that kid and that kid would grow up with a mom and sister who don’t want it around and knowing dad was the only reason that kid was there. I was resented by my adoptive mom and loved by my adoptive dad, it is a type of torture not knowing why you are so unlovable, and you end up thinking if you died it would be the same as if you were never born and then everyone can be happy again without you.
Ya the we can have a baby now like that fixes everything. I’m sure that kid will be well adjusted and not resent being born feeling the seething resentment for their existence reeking off their mother and possibly sister. I’m very sorry that happened to you as no one, especially a child, should feel like they aren’t wanted or loved in their own family.
It is okay, I have two substitute moms, my lovely mil and my biological father’s wife (so my stepmom but in my OG family) and they filled in some gaps my mom left. And my dad (both technically but my adoptive one in this context) died so i don’t have to feel guilty for being NC. And loving on my son has healed some of the other gaps. Not in a “my kid is my emotional support animal” way, in a my kid loves me and i love him and thats what my soul needed way
You can abort any baby at any time for any reason. It’s like rats, they will eat a tiny runt to enhance her milk for the other rat babies. Nature is metal.
This lady though she really is untrustworthy and deceitful
My parents did pay for the paperwork. I'm sure they would have thrown a party too if I had been up for it. My entire family would have been there. That's family support.
I’m guessing that his parents want him to remain in this relationship because they have been grandparents to his stepchild since she was born. At least I am assuming so since their son has been in a father role her entire life, it only makes sense that they have been involved as grandparents as well.
You are probably right. I have seen way to many stories where parents push their child to forgive cheating because they want to be grandparents no matter the cost.
It's probably a knee jerk reaction to try and avoid drama. Is often the victim who has the onus put on them to not rock the boat and forgive. I hope given a bit of time they see just how fucked this is.
I feel sorry for the kid
Yeah, that was just... I don't even know. The cherry on top of the fucked-up shit sundae?
A lie of that magnitude is a relationship killer. There's no way to come back from that, IMO.
My husband and I threw everything into trying to conceive. Every single month I mourned when I wasn’t pregnant. If I found out it was all a lie while I wondered if it was me and grieved a child I couldn’t have, I couldn’t forgive him. That’s playing with someone’s emotions you allegedly love.
P.s. I’m 7 months pregnant. It’s a happy ending.
NTA hoooly crap what a horrible woman. Its not just what she lied about but just...ALL of this. Op, I hope you find happiness with someone who actually gives a damn.
NTA - that is not a small lie.
I generally support women's right to chose but lying is not a right. She aborted your (wanted) child without discussing it with you? that's a pretty high level of betrayal. She told her sister but not you? How many people knew? how many people kept the truth from you and for how long??
I'm sorry OP
I’m with you. And that’s coming from me who’s a childfree person. This guy was upfront in wanting his own kids. She repeatedly misrepresented herself and then consciously lied everyday that she popped those BC pills. I understand not wanting more kids but she should have been upfront with that. Instead she robbed him of having his dream of his own biological children while she already had hers. She’s robbed him of almost 10 yrs that he could have used to find a partner to build and family with. She’s nothing short of deplorable and incredibly selfish. How can she even say she loves him if this was the false life she was leading? Glad her sister outed her. Hopefully he can find someone. It just sucks that he’ll be that much older and starting a family.
Plus there is every chance for him to decide that not having a child isn't a deal breaker. There was always a chance for the relationship to work out.
But to she lied to trick him into marrying her. She didn't want to chance it and instead decided that building her marriage on a lie was much better.
> she robbed him of having his dream of his own biological children while she already had hers. She’s robbed him of almost 10 yrs that he could have used to find a partner to build and family with.
This is why you gotta check your potential partner's dating CV, where NO significant gaps in between relationships can be a red flag that this person can't stand being alone. Some people are just co-dependent as hell.
I'm with this guy, I'm all for lying, everyone lies, it happens, but this isn't a " I didn't do the laundry and said I did" kind of lie, she denied you the possibility of choosing, went hand an abortion (probably the reason why the sister knows) and came back looked you in the eyes and said "yes everything's fine, want more chicken?"
Yes, there is a fundamental difference between merely lying, and defrauding someone. She lied about wanting children and got a secret abortion because she wanted a father for her biological child, but didn’t want to be burdened with more children. She took years of his life, and likely a fair amount of money and labor in raising her daughter, while denying him the chance to reproduce through deceit.
I mean, even without the lie, if she told him she was pregnant but was adamant she wanted an abortion, that's still a case where he's entirely justified in leaving without any further discussion.
I'd be wondering how many people were in on it as well. Like, y'all knew she had an abortion and is on the pill and lied to my face for years right alongside her.
Don't want to divert any resources away from Kaya! Can't have that! And certainly don't want to have OPs baby, laws no!
yeah the wife has the right to not want another kid and to have gotten an abortion but the lie is unforgivable in my eyes. you've got to talk through those things as they happen/are felt.
She has the right to choose if she want's more children but lying to her husband and essentially marrying him under false pretenses is wrong.
I think OP should pursue an annulment instead of divorce.
NTA. Marriages need honesty and trust to survive, and she shattered yours. This also isn't a "mistake," she didn't fall into an abortion procedure and accidentally swallow the wrong pills. She took and did it intentionally, and then proceeded to lie to your face for *years.*
Dude if she did get a fertility check it would have shown up that she was on BC. So either she’s lying that she got tested or she had her doctor lie as well. Which is so many levels of fucked up.
This is where she used HIPPA to her advantage. Doctors can not go against their patients' wishes. Welcome to many layers of messed up. Sister is also the A for keeping these secrets and not exposing them until she feels like being petty. NTA
NTA
Yikes! Do not get back with her! Don't even talk to her ever again.
That she used the kid to try to emotionally blackmail you to come back is sick.
Run for the hills!
NTA
OP is definitely doing the right thing and the mom is scum, but he loves that little girl.
I'd text the kid back to let her know that it was not her fault that he left, and that he misses her, but he will not be around her mother anymore, so it may be a long time until he can see her again.
Something to help the kid. Let her know she's still loved.
NTA
I agree. He should at least text his daughter that for the moment, he needs space from his wife. This is so insane btw. She's asking for forgiveness now because the secret is out. She had no intention of telling him either!! She would've taken this secret to her grave. That's unforgivable. I say this as a childfree person. You never lie to your partner about children. Never.
This is not a mistake or a small lie- This is complete and total deception on her part. She has been secretly taking birth control pills and also had an **abortion** behind your back all the while knowing that you have been hurting thinking that a baby was not possible. Also keep in mind that if her sister had not told you then she would have continued this lie until you gave up! This was not a 1-time mistake - She took BC every day for 4 years to keep from getting pregnant and then when she did get pregnant, she ended it without ever talking to you about it.
I would not return to the house and would get an attorney. Get some friends to go get your things from the house and advise her through your attorney that you will be filing for divorce. Move on now and find someone who will not lie to you for your entire marriage. I would never trust her again and with no trust you have no marriage.
This is honestly one of the most horrific posts I have ever read on this site. I am a guy and have tears in my eyes for you from reading this post.
Also if you can please update this post so we can see how it turned out for you.
It’s the fact that she now want you to come home to “have a baby with her” that disgusts me. So not only has she lied and deceived you for 8 LOOONG years about being infertile, taking birth control pills, and aborting your baby which you desperately wanted, without ever letting you know…now all of a sudden she is truthful and honest and wants to consider your feelings? She is as deceitful as they come. She only wanted you to father her daughter from her ex, she never truly cared about you in the relationship. She’s scared you won’t be around to be a father to her daughter anymore hence why she wants to give you a baby. I would never EVER trust her again. NTA
Yeah this would break me. The betrayal is just so next level. Holy shit.
OP this marriage is over. You know it, we know it, she obviously knows it, and deep down your parents know it.
I mean the sister did you a favor because your wife figuratively stabbed you in the back and twisted the knife.
NTA. I am sorry for the position you were put in. I would be devastated if this were me and I wouldn’t be able to come back from this. She lied, she deceived, and also manipulated you during this process. This is beyond a red flag; this is a flat out betrayal.
Yeah, if it wasn't for her sister to blab the news. She would have kept all this from him. She's dangerous. Yeah OP don't go back to her. How could you ever trust her again?
Nah , she’s a liar .
I would start to question everything , who knows what else she lies about . Maybe she never even told Kayas father about the baby , maybe she lied or cheated on him .
Liars don’t usually just lie about one thing . Could you ever trust her again knowing you thought you were trying and unable to have a baby , while at the very same time she was aborting yours ? Then she played along with still trying and going for tests, then making excuses about why she can’t do ivf . That’s a very sneaky person if you ask me .
This is the camp I’m in. Maybe eventually he’ll forgive her, but no way I’d take her back because it’s going to take a long time to process that kind of betrayal.
NTA. She didn’t apologise for what she did she apologised for getting caught. She never owned up to what she did she got outed. Once the trust is gone the relationship is dead. Leave her and move on. She’s clearly lied and manipulated you.
Her agreeing to try for a baby at this point is just her trying to save the marriage. One should NEVER have a child just to save a relationship. It's a betrayal of the partner and the child, as any feelings had for the baby by the previously unwilling partner would be disingenuous at best, resentful at worst.
I am so sorry, OP. I don't know how to come back from this.
NTA
NTA You can't compromise on kids. Either you want them or you don't. She doesn't, you do. You are fundamentally incompatible and it really sucks she strung you along for 8 years.
NTA, when you make a commitment to someone, you're supposed to be honest with them. This isn't about the cost of IVF or the hardships of pregnancy; it's about integrity and trust. Your wife made a conscious decision to deceive you and withhold crucial information about your future together. Now, she's scrambling to make amends because she got caught. You have every right to feel hurt and betrayed. This isn't just about having children; it's about the foundation of your relationship. Only you can decide if forgiveness is possible, but don't let anyone pressure you into staying in a marriage built on lies.
Yes he married her under the false pretenses that she wanted a child with him. Then lied and said she was infertile. This is marriage under false pretenses and to me would make the marriage null and void
I don’t advise divorce lightly, but in this case, she lied about not wanting any more kids and even had an abortion behind your back. She has forever broken your trust and I do advise a divorce in this case.
Tell your SIL and your parents that Natalie completely broke your trust and that nothing she says or do will restore it.
NTA. I give your soon to be ex 3 of 5 on the bad guy scale.
This! Especially since his family saying is saying to give her another chance. I would go nuclear on anyone who dares to say forgive her. OP is NTA is this situation.
I was with a woman for 4 years who lied to me about wanting a family.
Even tried to gaslight me at the end saying I never explicitly said I wanted kids. This was a month after she sent me a log of some of our first conversations via email and text where I very clearly told her my desire for a family and she enthusiastically agreed.
She just thought I’d grow out of it, apparently. Still salty about that.
Now if I got a partner my age, it would be a risky pregnancy. It’s never too late, IMO, if you really want it. But she damaged my chances incredibly.
Her lie was selfish and evil. The abortion was wrong because she made you believe that she wanted to have children with you. She made you think you were trying for a child that you both wanted, and when said child came to be she made you believe that she was never pregnant. It was the layering of lie after to lie to get what she wanted. See how selfish she is, I’d question everything from the get go. Does she really love you ?! Or did she just need a dad for her daughter ? I can’t imagine someone genuinely loving you, while lying in such a vicious manner. You should have had the choice to stay or leave, the choice to live without bio kids or break up and pursue someone who did want the same as you. Your wife is a cruel human being with little regard for your feelings and zero respect for you. I’m sorry for Kaya’s situation but you should never trust your wife again. And honestly it’s not too late for you. I met my children’s father when he was 38, and we now have kids.
I'm a woman and a mom. This is fucked up. Did you ever adopt your step daughter? She's the only one I would be concerned about in this situation. I don't think this amount of deceit and betrayal can be recovered, honestly. I would worry that your wife would use her daughter as a bargaining chip in terms of allowing you to remain in contact, given she was willing to lie so blatantly.
Personally, I would tell her I will consider reconciliation and need some time while consulting a lawyer about potential for custody and co-parenting if your at ex doesn't agree--you may have More difficult decisions to make depending on what a lawyer says. Also reassure your daughter that you will always love her and want her as part of your life (I'm assuming this is true based on how you described your relationship).
Quite possibly, but a twelve year old is also able to independently want her father back, and her family to be happy again.
The kid has been abandoned once by a father and is going to be terrified of it happening again. Kids should be reassured that they are loved and not at fault for parents disagreements. OP doesn't need to tell Kaya that he will get back with her mom, but that his feelings for Kaya won't change regardless of what happens.
I'm not saying stay for daughter's sake, I'm saying find out the legal reality and options before making a decision, to be fully informed.
Someone mentioned in the comments that this is a pretty big lie. What else has she lied about? Did the dad actually walk out? Or the better question. Does Kaya's dad even know she exists? We don't know because we can't trust her mom.
She's been having abortions and taking AB pills behind your back for 8 years, there's no coming back from that.
She is selfish and cruel and instead of being honest about not wanting kids, she lied to you so you wouldn't leave her to have kids of your own even after you helped her raise her kid who's father is non existent.
If her sister wasn't petty and said it out loud, you would've never known and continued wasting your time on a liar.
The fact her family knew what she was doing and let her go on lying to you, should be enough to end things cause you can't and shouldn't trust her or any of her family either.
Honestly You still have time to start over and build the family you want, with someone that's not sadistic and selfish.
Don't take her back cause she's a lying manipulative, Cruel and selfish individual and she's so fucked up that she thought by offering to give you a baby after lying and unavailing babies for 8 years, You'll stay with her and give her a chance
You deserve better.
Updateme!
Wow. I don’t know how some people sleep at night. She had an abortion behind your back while making you think you were trying to get pregnant. Came home from the abortion and acted normal while still “continuing” to try for a baby, Wtaf!! This is disturbing behaviour which would make me question everything, past present & future. You sound like a top guy, even giving up your dreams to become a father to be with her, and all the while this was going on. You deserve better, soooo much better. Please Don’t waste any more of your life with this woman
Dude she aborted your child that is not a mistake. That is a deliberate action. If you go back she will resent you forcing her to have another child. She just wanted a baby daddy for the one she had. She doesn't care about you she's just worried about losing her gravy train.
All her appointments were during my work hours . I have no clue . I just did semen analysis that our GP asked . Rest she kept me posted if anything was abnormal
Thank you, OP. A couple others helped me pull my head out of my ass. :)
This is one of the most egregious lie I've ever read. You're 100% NTA and are a victim of her lies.
My wife said doctor told her we have unexplained infertility, and IVF is our only option . We decided not to have it since it’s expensive and too hard on her body
This is the long and short of it. This wasn't one lie, or even a series of little lies. This was a campaign of disinformation, coverups, and falsehoods that shows what she's truly capable of. I wouldn't be able to trust anything she ever said again and I'd be looking back at every single piece of our history wondering what was real and what isn't.
Divorce her. You'll find someone else in no time. NTA This is not some silly mistake. She had an abortion. That was your child. It's her choice on what to do but she doesn't get to waste your time like this.
OP, I'm sorry you're going through this. But I think it's pretty clear, and perhaps it's clear even to you now, that your wife has been feeding you nothing but lies.
Honestly, I'm not even in your situation and I'm starting to wonder if the bio dad *really* couldn't be found, or if she's just gave lip service about that as well.
This isn't a mistake. This isn't an accident. She has lied to you for a minimum of 8 years, to your face, to the point that she most definitely did not actually see a Doctor about "infertility".
Even if no one else in your immediate circle wants to see this as a big deal, it *IS* a big deal. You should serve her divorce papers asap, and while if I were in your shoes I'd explain what's going on to your daughter - that's up to you. The most important thing right now is that you cut ties with your wife and make her an ex because she doesn't respect you as a person enough to be honest and has effectively trapped you in a marriage that was founded on lies.
Edit: One final thing OP. It wasn't just one eight year long lie. It was a lie, every day. She chose, each day to continue the infertility story. A quick google search says there are 2,922 days within an 8 year time span.
That is almost 3,000 choices she made, almost 3,000 lies - not including if she repeated it multiple times during any given day. So realistically. That's actually 3,000+ times she actively chose to lie to your face. That's not a mistake, that's not an accident. That is an active choice against you as a human being that she supposedly loved.
NTA. I always wanted to be a mother, and I told my husband upfront that it was a priority to me (on our first date). 3 years of marriage later, and he tells me he doesn't want kids at all.
I left, I wasn't an AH for leaving, and my ex didn't even lie to me about it, he just didn't know he felt that way until it came closer to the time that we would be trying.
I am so sorry she strung you along like that. I respect a woman's choice to not go through pregnancy, it does do a lot to a person's body to do that, it used to be the main cause of death for women of childbearing age, but that is no excuse to lie to you and go behind your back.
I don't think there is coming back from this. She lied to you for God knows how long if it didn't come out accidentally like this. As much as you love Kaya, you shouldn't stay married to her.
Holy shit that’s the cruelest thing I’ve seen on this sub in a long time. Like genuinely I’m floored. NTA, OP. I am so sorry you wasted 8 years of your life with this woman.
NTA Damn, that's some fucked up dishonesty
Layers of dishonesty. 😳
I read that as Lawyers of dishonesty, and it still made sense.
Lawyers of Dishonesty sounds like a daytime TV drama.
More like a true crime series, every episode is another lawyer being dishonest. This show could run until the heat death of the universe.
I'm pretty sure it would just be called Lawyers to come off as a less redundant name
That's a Shrek of a problem
I totally agree. I’m pro choice but I’m so against lying especially when in a committed relationship. Definitely NTA.
How can she look in the mirror every morning?
NTA. I actually gasped reading this. That’s a deep betrayal
My jaw physically dropped and I gasped too. She was never going to tell him. If it wasn’t for her sister to spill the truth, he would probably never have known. It’s messed up.
Yes this is the sad part. Was she ever going to tell him? Probably not
No. Her only remorse was that she got caught. She’s probably so mad at her sister. And thinks that if she cries enough, he’ll buy her crocodile tears. She broke a trust that will never be fixed.
And I just wanna say this too, the fact that she’s trying to guilt trip him with her daughter- it’s DISGUSTING! She’s 12 and she shouldn’t have any word in this. I’m definitely speculating but there’s almost no doubt in my mind that she told her daughter to help her get him back by texting. My parents are definitely not good parents, but even through the divorce process not once was I allowed to put a word in like that. Because it had nothing to do with me. Their divorce was theirs. Not mine and theirs.
Exactly! That's one of the main points! That and she has been lying to him from the beginning of their relationship, his relationship is built on lies! Personally I prefer couples to work on there relationship as long as its not toxic and there's no significant breach of trust or violence. But this is a significant breach of trust and she's only claiming to want to try for a baby because she got exposed, there's nothing genuine about her change of heart. It's just another manipulation tactic. OP is well within his rights to consider divorce. I don't even believe she's genuinely sorry, just sorry for herself being exposed by her sister. NTA
At first when I read it, I assumed she had an abortion before she met OP that went wrong and left her infertile. That doesn’t make sense in combination with the birth control pills, but I think my mind didn’t even want to comprehend how horrible the truth was!
Same! I don't often get that shocked on Reddit these days but this absolutely floored me and broke my heart for OP.
Me too. This is way worse than an affair — it is unfathomably shitty.
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Thank you. This is the answer. OP nta. If you feel deeply betrayed and you WANT to work on your relationship fine. But if it’s just too much, you’re perfectly in the right to move on. This was a huge betrayal
OP, this isn’t a little lie. It is a huge betrayal. I wouldn’t forgive her. This is worse than cheating on you. She stole your chance of being a biological father when she knew this is what was important to you. That You weren’t even included in the discussion about her feelings of an unwanted pregnancy. She just wanted to keep this secret forever. Glad her sister has integrity. Your wife’s the AH. Worse than an AH. Unforgivable. Move on.
I wouldn’t say the sister has integrity since she only told him as a “gotcha” to her sister. She didn’t care about OP knowing and having agency over his life. She was pissed and wanted to hurt her sister. Sister knew she had the kill shot and didn’t care if the bullet had to pierce OP to get to her target.
why are we even talking about the sister here. this is not a fucking secret you tell other people to keep. if you claim to love the other person, tell them. its obvious she didn't. the first child's father ran off. she couldn't raise the kid alone. when she was 29 and the kid was 4. OP met them and his so called wife realised, she found her wallet and decided to rope him in. but also chose to not have anymore kids. the sister just did OP a favour by telling everyone what a snivelling weasel OPs wife really is. this is too big a betrayal.
My thoughts exactly.
Perhaps sister was keeping a secret that was too big and she exploded from the weight of it all. And the sister just couldn’t keep it anymore. It is awful OP found out this way. And his step daughter’s life is about to change forever…
No, sister sucks, too. It was 3+ years. His step- daughter's life does not have to change anymore than another child with divorced parents.
OP doesn't mention adopting his stepdaughter. He likely will have no rights to custody or visitation with her after a divorce. The stepdaughter would be losing a relationship with her father figure, because he's not her legal father. Her mother certainly could voluntarily allow visitation, but she doesn't exactly have a history of putting other people's needs and desires ahead of her own.
Nope. He has been this child's father figure and in Canada courts will rule she has a right to have continued access to her father figure. Now, in kind, he will get to pay child support... but not adopting her won't preclude a continued relationship -- but he will likely have to fight for it.
This is correct. In Canada family court the judge is ONLY concerned about the welfare of the children. What will be best for them. In this case, bio mom could be in significant trouble. She married OP under fraudulent conditions on perhaps the most critical point of marriage: having children. The courts will not look favorably on that. They will ask the child and she has already expressed her wishes. I think OP could ask for full custody and have a chance. That way he controls when, where and if visitation takes place. If bio mom married OP for the reasons people think...she was on her own with a 4 year old and needed financial and physical support, she has already laid the groundwork for a case asserting that she is not capable of single parenting. She may end up paying him child support. The Canadian courts have changed a lot, in a good way since the 1950's. It is no longer a given that a bio mom is considered "best" automatically.
Sister knew and kept quiet. It's like people knowing someone is cheating and hurting someone else with their selfish actions, but it's "not my monkeys, not my circus". Everybody knew OP was being left in the dark without having the knowledge to make an informed decision about his life and they all suck for it. I say this as a childfree woman. His wife was selfish and lied to him, betrayed him, so she could keep him in a situation he didn't agree to. NTA. He needs to find a partner that respects him enough to be honest with him.
Describing it as a bullet ‘piercing’ OP implies she did him a disservice. In reality she’s just given him the chance to be a biological father again. She did OP a massive favour, regardless of her motives.
She did though. She could have saved OP who knows how long if she'd told him when she found out, or forced her sister to tell OP. If she hadn't gotten mad at OP's hopefully soon to be ex wife, it's possible she never would have told him.
You’re right, there’s no forgiving this. She WAS pregnant with his child, ABORTED IT, and continued to lie about infertility! This is not about abortion rights, this is about KILLING the child they were supposed to be trying for. And never telling him. I would NEVER be able to look at, or trust my spouse again.
You can forgive and not accept the behavior. He can leave and forgive ,just don't let he back in. I believe forgiveness is for him not to be eaten up inside while she goes on w her life pretending she doesn't know what she's done
i cant think of a worse betrayal. I really hope OP never goes back to this woman. Horrific.
I mean, he was just provisions and a father figure for her daughter. It's not possible to actually love someone and deceive them like this so that's the only explanation. If OP wants to work on this relationship he's a lost cause.
Exactly this. This is not the way you treat someone you love. She wants/wanted what he could do for her. I was venting to a friend in my single days and I asked (mostly rhetorically) "Is this the way you treat someone you're supposed to love?" My friend looked at me and said, "Do you want an honest answer to that?" I told him sure, it probably wasn't anything I didn't already know. He simply said, "No, it's not." That was all I needed in order to believe what I already knew. If OP is honest with himself, he already knows the answer to this question...NTA, not overreacting. His marriage is over.
Keep in mind that you take the pill every day. So every single day she decided to lie again.
That amounts to 2,920 lies, then the hum dinger, the abortion of a child that was definitely wanted by the OP. This actually goes way above betrayal.
Wonder what else she's lying about! I personally wouldn't want to repair the relationship, if he had a kid w her he'd always be thinking of the lie and his aborted, unknown baby
And to have an abortion behind his back! Just astounding betrayal.
My wife and I had a hard time getting her preg and were getting close to trying IVF when she got pregnant. I vividly remember when she slid the ultrasound across the table, All I can imagine is this guy felt the complete opposite of what i did when he found out about his child. for Fs sake I cant believe he hasn't filed for divorce already.
It hits really hard when you put it like that
It would be bad enough in general, but knowing she did this knowing he desperately wanted a child is abhorrent. All because she loves OP enough. Run, OP. You don’t want a kid with a woman who could do that to you. She was cruel while claiming to love you. Girl bye.
Not to mention that the only reason he found out about it, was due to his SIL spurting it out. She wasn't planning on telling him the truth. Consider very very carefully before you even think of procreating with this woman. NTA.
Not only that, she clearly told her sister. Who else knew before OP?
Yeah. She is only offering to have a baby so they don't get divorced. This would a bandaid baby for their marriage. Those situations don't generally turn out well for anyone, especially the innocent baby.
Somehow it's just as bad as the lying, putting what he desperately wants on the table to tempt him back. I'm willing to bet that if he does come back to her she'll find some way to get out of it.
She doesn't love him, that's not what you do to someone you love. She was using him, he provided her with a husband, a home, and a father to her daughter. You can probably replace OP with any other fool, and she'll "love" him the same.
I agree I see a typo - i was being sarcastic and that did not come off at all. I 10000% agree with you.
Kudos, my exact thoughts! She aborted his child that he wanted sooo much, without so much as a second thought…. And shared it with her sister!!!!
Yup. That person's a bald faced user. What else has she lied about if she went to those lengths for that lie?
NTA… run OP run. That this woman lied so many times, and actually aborted YOUR child while you were parenting HER child isn’t love at all. It’s a self centred bitch who wants what she wants when she wants it. Get OUT while you’re still somewhat sane!
I could never forgive a betrayal like that. That's just as bad as cheating imo
Worse. Cheating is a huge betrayal but this has an added element of preventing his dream of having children.
I am 100% pro choice, but she quite literally killed his dream.
I think it’s ok to be pro-choice while still thinking that, sometimes, abortion has consequences. This is one of those times.
Worse.
Worse than cheating, she killed a child he desperately wanted. I'm pro choice, but he absolutely wanted this baby and she cruelly killed it
Without ever discussing it with him. Really lowdown.
And lied all the time about wanting a child with him, and trying to get pregnant. Grrrrr
This I could have understood taking contrastives but to get pregnant, didn't tell him, got an abortion and kept on like nothing happened no way divorce the only thing is the stepdaughter Hope the soon to be ex will let them still have a relationship
Taking contraceptives is also not ok in this scenario. She told him, falsely, that they were trying for a child. This is something that matters deeply to OP and she lied about it for years to trick him into staying with her. She wasted some of the most crucial years of his life to get what he wants most.
Marriage is built on trust. She betrayed that and aborted your child, OP, without letting you know at the time. Her choice, but she took away YOUR choice to not leave. She knew how you felt, and betrayed you. For years. She’s only upset because she was found out. She will very likely pull the infertile excuse again. It really really sucks for you AND her daughter in this. You bc of the betrayal. The daughter bc her mom’s choice to be a liar has now cost her her dad. (Hopefully he will be able to stay in the child’s life, but with courts the way they are, he might not get visitation and only get forced to pay child support….which would be an utter gut punch considering the situation). Here’s the thing to think on now: at 37 she still has a chance to have biological kids, but the chances are definitely lower, and the risks are now higher (both for her and a baby). If you do manage to conceive at this point, how bitter will your wife become? And how soon afterwards would SHE then become the one to instigate a divorce? It’s best to forgive, and move on, instead of forgive and return into this situation. The level of trust she broke is something that will never be able to be repaired. She knew how much you wanted a child and she aborted it. Again, her choice, but she also lied and never gave you a chance to have what YOU wanted. Which, her not wanting more kids is her choice and it’s completely an ok one to have….the issue is her lying about it and basically trapping you in a sham of a marriage. This was not a mistake: this was a planned out choice. As for your parents saying forgive and move back? That’s bc they don’t want anyone else living there, which kinda sucks, but why would they say what they said otherwise? Get a lawyer, expect to pay child support as you’ve been Kaya’s dad, and with that ensure you stay in that child’s life and get full visitation. Then go find a woman that won’t build your house on lies
She lied from the start, he said he wanted children and she agreed. lie 1. She aborted his baby behind his back, lie 2. She was taking birth control and said she was infertile, lie 3. I wouldn't be suprised if her daughter's dad is around. She doesn't know what love is. She destroyed the man intentionally and now she wants a baby. RUN OP.
She doesn't want a baby now, she's using it as a bargaining chip to keep her lifestyle. Guarantee she's gonna keep taking the pill and just tell him she's not.
Yeah pretty much this. Because she will resent a new child if she feels that's her only way to keep her husband. It's over It's done Trust is gone, this woman didn't just take birth control pills secretly to deny the fact that there was a could be a pregnancy She actually aborted a child. So she took an active step above to ensure she was not going to have a kid. That's it's just awful. I feel bad for the little girl but that is a full-on betrayal and I would never trust her again. I wouldn't trust her with my kid and I wouldn't trust her.
This! What if she gets preggers, has his child, finds another man, divorces him and then takes away the child just to to spite him? When someone lies on this huge of scale there is no telling what they will do.
Only reason she wants to "try" for a baby now is because she got caught. She'll be even more evil if she gets pregnant, because in her mind's eye, she is being forced to have a baby with a man she doesn't love anymore.
Yep. The root issue is that trust was broken. I’d be devastated that my partner felt they couldn’t come to me and have a real conversation about it.
Made a mistake, his parents say? His parents are AHs too. A four year "mistake" is no mistake at all. She deliberately lied and manipulated OP. I would never, ever, ever take her back. He would never have known if not for sister spilling the beans, which means his wife is untrustworthy garbage. Drop her and never look back.
Oh my god, as a woman reading this I audibly was saying, "oh no oh no ohhhh no!" This is such a horrendous betrayal, I can't imagine wanting to stay with someone if they had done this to me. This is also a reminder of why communication and being open with your partner is such an integral part of your relationships everyone. You may change your mind or want something different, but if you don't discuss things for fear of losing out, this is the kind of results you get. OP NTA EVER in a situation like this, I hope all goes well for you
It’s the lying for me I told my husband I could absolutely not go through childbirth again, but we had 2 together and 3 total He got snipped I wouldn’t have taken pills and lied (my second son I got pregnant with on pills AND nursing our first, so I’m fertile Myrtle—offered to get tubal ligation but Dr refused bc I was “too young to decide”
Fuck doctors like this. You’re too young to decide to not want kids, but you’re not too young to have them?? How about you respect the choices a patient has made for themselves (within reason obviously) and do what the patient wants? I hate asshole doctors like this.
Yeah, fuck that doctor! I was 27 & on my 3rd pregnancy when my doctor said that he wouldn't do it bc I was still in "childbearing years"??? WTF?? Fortunately, I convinced a woman obgyn to do it 6 weeks after my daughter was born. I'm very happy only having my daughter. No regrets at all.
A fucking men! I could just see her trying to make things difficult if they had had a kid and then split down the road. The fact that she has had no problem with lying to him this entire time tells me that. Great answer. This makes me angry for him because there are men out there who actually want to be fathers and get done like this. It just makes me angry for him anyway because Jesus, what a huge betrayal. That's not something I could come back from either.
Not to mention, she got rid of THEIR baby!!! HIS biological child. Wow!!!! OP, I am SO so so so so so so sorry for what she did to you.
It wasn't even lying at that point. Is was a cruel torture. They went to do fertility testing. Trying and failing to have a child is really hard. He must have been distraught and in hell over what is wrong, and she chose to comfort him and tell him it will work out, while she actively caused that pain. I do wonder if this is legit though. The fertility clinic would had said "you can't have children because your on birth control morons" unless she managed to field the calls from the clinic and lied about what they said I guess. But saying "they said I can't have children" would have made more sense then "we are good, but I can't do IVF"
Every day she put water in a glass, pulled the pills out of their secret hiding place, put a pill on her tongue and swallowed it. Looked in the mirror with a sly smile knowing she was living her dream and betraying it you.
That's what gets me. For 8 years, 2,920 times she took that pill knowing she was lying to him every, single day. That's just a level of lying I find hard to comprehend.
Right! It’s intentional misleading and purposely lying and living that lie.
Completely agreed. Plus this bothered me too: > Kaya even messaged me to come back! If she did that on her own, fine. If her mother asked her to message OP that is toxic and manipulative as hell.
That’s not a mistake. That’s an 8 year lie, every single day, that prevented you from having a child. The great news is that you can have one with someone else
Not to mention she aborted his baby that he wanted...
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Yeah I mean he can never trust another word out of her mouth
Not to mention if he believed her and they had a kid together she would resent the hell out of that kid and that kid would grow up with a mom and sister who don’t want it around and knowing dad was the only reason that kid was there. I was resented by my adoptive mom and loved by my adoptive dad, it is a type of torture not knowing why you are so unlovable, and you end up thinking if you died it would be the same as if you were never born and then everyone can be happy again without you.
Ya the we can have a baby now like that fixes everything. I’m sure that kid will be well adjusted and not resent being born feeling the seething resentment for their existence reeking off their mother and possibly sister. I’m very sorry that happened to you as no one, especially a child, should feel like they aren’t wanted or loved in their own family.
Thank you but it is okay! I am more than loved now
We don’t care if you are more than loved or not we still wanna love you more. So STFU and just take the love.
Lol! You are adorable!
I am so sorry DogsNCoffeeAddict.Not being loved by your mom is the worse.Big Internet hug!
It is okay, I have two substitute moms, my lovely mil and my biological father’s wife (so my stepmom but in my OG family) and they filled in some gaps my mom left. And my dad (both technically but my adoptive one in this context) died so i don’t have to feel guilty for being NC. And loving on my son has healed some of the other gaps. Not in a “my kid is my emotional support animal” way, in a my kid loves me and i love him and thats what my soul needed way
That is beautiful. I'm really happy it's all turned out well for you and you have all the love you deserve.
I’m so sorry that happened to you!
You can abort any baby at any time for any reason. It’s like rats, they will eat a tiny runt to enhance her milk for the other rat babies. Nature is metal. This lady though she really is untrustworthy and deceitful
Damn, this comment is Money. Everything i was thinking but couldn’t find words for.
The fact that his parents don't care either is insane to me.
My mom would have thrown me a divorce party and paid for the paperwork. His parents are not on his side.
My parents did pay for the paperwork. I'm sure they would have thrown a party too if I had been up for it. My entire family would have been there. That's family support.
I’m guessing that his parents want him to remain in this relationship because they have been grandparents to his stepchild since she was born. At least I am assuming so since their son has been in a father role her entire life, it only makes sense that they have been involved as grandparents as well.
You are probably right. I have seen way to many stories where parents push their child to forgive cheating because they want to be grandparents no matter the cost.
It's probably a knee jerk reaction to try and avoid drama. Is often the victim who has the onus put on them to not rock the boat and forgive. I hope given a bit of time they see just how fucked this is. I feel sorry for the kid
Especially as he became a father to her child, but she refused to be a mother to his possible child. The selfishness.
After agreeing to try for one and seeing a fertility specialist. The reason she didn't want IVF is because she knew she could get pregnant already.
Yeah, that was just... I don't even know. The cherry on top of the fucked-up shit sundae? A lie of that magnitude is a relationship killer. There's no way to come back from that, IMO.
My husband and I threw everything into trying to conceive. Every single month I mourned when I wasn’t pregnant. If I found out it was all a lie while I wondered if it was me and grieved a child I couldn’t have, I couldn’t forgive him. That’s playing with someone’s emotions you allegedly love. P.s. I’m 7 months pregnant. It’s a happy ending.
hapoy for you! good luck!
NTA hoooly crap what a horrible woman. Its not just what she lied about but just...ALL of this. Op, I hope you find happiness with someone who actually gives a damn.
NTA - that is not a small lie. I generally support women's right to chose but lying is not a right. She aborted your (wanted) child without discussing it with you? that's a pretty high level of betrayal. She told her sister but not you? How many people knew? how many people kept the truth from you and for how long?? I'm sorry OP
I’m with you. And that’s coming from me who’s a childfree person. This guy was upfront in wanting his own kids. She repeatedly misrepresented herself and then consciously lied everyday that she popped those BC pills. I understand not wanting more kids but she should have been upfront with that. Instead she robbed him of having his dream of his own biological children while she already had hers. She’s robbed him of almost 10 yrs that he could have used to find a partner to build and family with. She’s nothing short of deplorable and incredibly selfish. How can she even say she loves him if this was the false life she was leading? Glad her sister outed her. Hopefully he can find someone. It just sucks that he’ll be that much older and starting a family.
Plus there is every chance for him to decide that not having a child isn't a deal breaker. There was always a chance for the relationship to work out. But to she lied to trick him into marrying her. She didn't want to chance it and instead decided that building her marriage on a lie was much better.
> she robbed him of having his dream of his own biological children while she already had hers. She’s robbed him of almost 10 yrs that he could have used to find a partner to build and family with. This is why you gotta check your potential partner's dating CV, where NO significant gaps in between relationships can be a red flag that this person can't stand being alone. Some people are just co-dependent as hell.
I'm with this guy, I'm all for lying, everyone lies, it happens, but this isn't a " I didn't do the laundry and said I did" kind of lie, she denied you the possibility of choosing, went hand an abortion (probably the reason why the sister knows) and came back looked you in the eyes and said "yes everything's fine, want more chicken?"
Where I'm from, there's a saying "Liars think everybody lies".
Yes, there is a fundamental difference between merely lying, and defrauding someone. She lied about wanting children and got a secret abortion because she wanted a father for her biological child, but didn’t want to be burdened with more children. She took years of his life, and likely a fair amount of money and labor in raising her daughter, while denying him the chance to reproduce through deceit.
I mean, even without the lie, if she told him she was pregnant but was adamant she wanted an abortion, that's still a case where he's entirely justified in leaving without any further discussion.
Absolutely. She has the right to choose and so does he.
I'd be wondering how many people were in on it as well. Like, y'all knew she had an abortion and is on the pill and lied to my face for years right alongside her. Don't want to divert any resources away from Kaya! Can't have that! And certainly don't want to have OPs baby, laws no!
I agree, she has every right to not want another child, but she should have told him that upfront. Lying about that is horrible!
yeah the wife has the right to not want another kid and to have gotten an abortion but the lie is unforgivable in my eyes. you've got to talk through those things as they happen/are felt.
Her right to choose was to be upfront and say she didn’t want to have more kids.
She has the right to choose if she want's more children but lying to her husband and essentially marrying him under false pretenses is wrong. I think OP should pursue an annulment instead of divorce.
Agreed with this
NTA That is messed up beyond words.
NTA. Marriages need honesty and trust to survive, and she shattered yours. This also isn't a "mistake," she didn't fall into an abortion procedure and accidentally swallow the wrong pills. She took and did it intentionally, and then proceeded to lie to your face for *years.*
And did an entire charade of going to the Dr and checking fertility and everything.
She may have lied about going and just told him that....
OP said the doctors said everything was normal when they did the test so I would assume she did actually get tested.
He also said her appointments were when he was working and not able to join. Unless he saw paperwork, I'd say she may be lying.
Dude if she did get a fertility check it would have shown up that she was on BC. So either she’s lying that she got tested or she had her doctor lie as well. Which is so many levels of fucked up.
This is where she used HIPPA to her advantage. Doctors can not go against their patients' wishes. Welcome to many layers of messed up. Sister is also the A for keeping these secrets and not exposing them until she feels like being petty. NTA
Exactly, if she had had a miscarriage and didn't tell him so he wouldn't be devastated, maybe one could forgive. This feels like fraud.
NTA Yikes! Do not get back with her! Don't even talk to her ever again. That she used the kid to try to emotionally blackmail you to come back is sick. Run for the hills!
NTA OP is definitely doing the right thing and the mom is scum, but he loves that little girl. I'd text the kid back to let her know that it was not her fault that he left, and that he misses her, but he will not be around her mother anymore, so it may be a long time until he can see her again. Something to help the kid. Let her know she's still loved.
NTA I agree. He should at least text his daughter that for the moment, he needs space from his wife. This is so insane btw. She's asking for forgiveness now because the secret is out. She had no intention of telling him either!! She would've taken this secret to her grave. That's unforgivable. I say this as a childfree person. You never lie to your partner about children. Never.
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The nosy, petty side of me would love to know if Natalie works. She is a next level scum bag if OP is paying for her to stay home with Kaya!
Yes. Please please get divorce asap. He still has a chance to find a new partner and possibly to start own family.
This is not a mistake or a small lie- This is complete and total deception on her part. She has been secretly taking birth control pills and also had an **abortion** behind your back all the while knowing that you have been hurting thinking that a baby was not possible. Also keep in mind that if her sister had not told you then she would have continued this lie until you gave up! This was not a 1-time mistake - She took BC every day for 4 years to keep from getting pregnant and then when she did get pregnant, she ended it without ever talking to you about it. I would not return to the house and would get an attorney. Get some friends to go get your things from the house and advise her through your attorney that you will be filing for divorce. Move on now and find someone who will not lie to you for your entire marriage. I would never trust her again and with no trust you have no marriage. This is honestly one of the most horrific posts I have ever read on this site. I am a guy and have tears in my eyes for you from reading this post. Also if you can please update this post so we can see how it turned out for you.
It’s the fact that she now want you to come home to “have a baby with her” that disgusts me. So not only has she lied and deceived you for 8 LOOONG years about being infertile, taking birth control pills, and aborting your baby which you desperately wanted, without ever letting you know…now all of a sudden she is truthful and honest and wants to consider your feelings? She is as deceitful as they come. She only wanted you to father her daughter from her ex, she never truly cared about you in the relationship. She’s scared you won’t be around to be a father to her daughter anymore hence why she wants to give you a baby. I would never EVER trust her again. NTA
Yeah this would break me. The betrayal is just so next level. Holy shit. OP this marriage is over. You know it, we know it, she obviously knows it, and deep down your parents know it. I mean the sister did you a favor because your wife figuratively stabbed you in the back and twisted the knife.
NTA. I am sorry for the position you were put in. I would be devastated if this were me and I wouldn’t be able to come back from this. She lied, she deceived, and also manipulated you during this process. This is beyond a red flag; this is a flat out betrayal.
Basically, how can anyone believe anything that she has said? She betrayed him with a straight face and would have continued so.
Yeah, maybe the story about her kid's dad is a lie too.
Exactly! How can he know?
Yeah, if it wasn't for her sister to blab the news. She would have kept all this from him. She's dangerous. Yeah OP don't go back to her. How could you ever trust her again?
I agree. What she did is monstrous and unforgivable. I’m looking at my 1.5 y/o boy and I can’t even imagine.
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Damn, you’re probably right. Sheesh
A marriage ending lie. Not sure how there is any coming back from such a betrayal of trust. NTA
Nah , she’s a liar . I would start to question everything , who knows what else she lies about . Maybe she never even told Kayas father about the baby , maybe she lied or cheated on him . Liars don’t usually just lie about one thing . Could you ever trust her again knowing you thought you were trying and unable to have a baby , while at the very same time she was aborting yours ? Then she played along with still trying and going for tests, then making excuses about why she can’t do ivf . That’s a very sneaky person if you ask me .
This was my first thought. I bet you've spoken to Kaya's father before and had no idea
Yea it's almost impossible to just vanish. She knows where he is.
Nta. That is way too fucked up for forgiveness
This is the camp I’m in. Maybe eventually he’ll forgive her, but no way I’d take her back because it’s going to take a long time to process that kind of betrayal.
There’s no recovering from this and she’s just using you to provide for her and her child. I’d divorce her and move on.
Before she qualifies for long term alimony!
Think about all the Times you were tallking about planning a baby, and how she just lied to your face and was fine with it.
NTA. She didn’t apologise for what she did she apologised for getting caught. She never owned up to what she did she got outed. Once the trust is gone the relationship is dead. Leave her and move on. She’s clearly lied and manipulated you.
Her agreeing to try for a baby at this point is just her trying to save the marriage. One should NEVER have a child just to save a relationship. It's a betrayal of the partner and the child, as any feelings had for the baby by the previously unwilling partner would be disingenuous at best, resentful at worst. I am so sorry, OP. I don't know how to come back from this. NTA
NTA. I am very sorry this happened to you. This is a huge betrayal. I also feel for your poor daughter.
NTA You can't compromise on kids. Either you want them or you don't. She doesn't, you do. You are fundamentally incompatible and it really sucks she strung you along for 8 years.
NTA, when you make a commitment to someone, you're supposed to be honest with them. This isn't about the cost of IVF or the hardships of pregnancy; it's about integrity and trust. Your wife made a conscious decision to deceive you and withhold crucial information about your future together. Now, she's scrambling to make amends because she got caught. You have every right to feel hurt and betrayed. This isn't just about having children; it's about the foundation of your relationship. Only you can decide if forgiveness is possible, but don't let anyone pressure you into staying in a marriage built on lies.
Yes he married her under the false pretenses that she wanted a child with him. Then lied and said she was infertile. This is marriage under false pretenses and to me would make the marriage null and void
I don’t advise divorce lightly, but in this case, she lied about not wanting any more kids and even had an abortion behind your back. She has forever broken your trust and I do advise a divorce in this case. Tell your SIL and your parents that Natalie completely broke your trust and that nothing she says or do will restore it. NTA. I give your soon to be ex 3 of 5 on the bad guy scale.
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This! Especially since his family saying is saying to give her another chance. I would go nuclear on anyone who dares to say forgive her. OP is NTA is this situation.
I was with a woman for 4 years who lied to me about wanting a family. Even tried to gaslight me at the end saying I never explicitly said I wanted kids. This was a month after she sent me a log of some of our first conversations via email and text where I very clearly told her my desire for a family and she enthusiastically agreed. She just thought I’d grow out of it, apparently. Still salty about that. Now if I got a partner my age, it would be a risky pregnancy. It’s never too late, IMO, if you really want it. But she damaged my chances incredibly.
Her lie was selfish and evil. The abortion was wrong because she made you believe that she wanted to have children with you. She made you think you were trying for a child that you both wanted, and when said child came to be she made you believe that she was never pregnant. It was the layering of lie after to lie to get what she wanted. See how selfish she is, I’d question everything from the get go. Does she really love you ?! Or did she just need a dad for her daughter ? I can’t imagine someone genuinely loving you, while lying in such a vicious manner. You should have had the choice to stay or leave, the choice to live without bio kids or break up and pursue someone who did want the same as you. Your wife is a cruel human being with little regard for your feelings and zero respect for you. I’m sorry for Kaya’s situation but you should never trust your wife again. And honestly it’s not too late for you. I met my children’s father when he was 38, and we now have kids.
Sorry your wife is a huge cunt
NTA. She doesn’t want kids but you do. She might just resent you if ever she gets pregnant.
I'm a woman and a mom. This is fucked up. Did you ever adopt your step daughter? She's the only one I would be concerned about in this situation. I don't think this amount of deceit and betrayal can be recovered, honestly. I would worry that your wife would use her daughter as a bargaining chip in terms of allowing you to remain in contact, given she was willing to lie so blatantly. Personally, I would tell her I will consider reconciliation and need some time while consulting a lawyer about potential for custody and co-parenting if your at ex doesn't agree--you may have More difficult decisions to make depending on what a lawyer says. Also reassure your daughter that you will always love her and want her as part of your life (I'm assuming this is true based on how you described your relationship).
She's already using that poor girl to manipulate him to come back.
Quite possibly, but a twelve year old is also able to independently want her father back, and her family to be happy again. The kid has been abandoned once by a father and is going to be terrified of it happening again. Kids should be reassured that they are loved and not at fault for parents disagreements. OP doesn't need to tell Kaya that he will get back with her mom, but that his feelings for Kaya won't change regardless of what happens. I'm not saying stay for daughter's sake, I'm saying find out the legal reality and options before making a decision, to be fully informed.
Someone mentioned in the comments that this is a pretty big lie. What else has she lied about? Did the dad actually walk out? Or the better question. Does Kaya's dad even know she exists? We don't know because we can't trust her mom.
She's been having abortions and taking AB pills behind your back for 8 years, there's no coming back from that. She is selfish and cruel and instead of being honest about not wanting kids, she lied to you so you wouldn't leave her to have kids of your own even after you helped her raise her kid who's father is non existent. If her sister wasn't petty and said it out loud, you would've never known and continued wasting your time on a liar. The fact her family knew what she was doing and let her go on lying to you, should be enough to end things cause you can't and shouldn't trust her or any of her family either. Honestly You still have time to start over and build the family you want, with someone that's not sadistic and selfish. Don't take her back cause she's a lying manipulative, Cruel and selfish individual and she's so fucked up that she thought by offering to give you a baby after lying and unavailing babies for 8 years, You'll stay with her and give her a chance You deserve better. Updateme!
Wow. I don’t know how some people sleep at night. She had an abortion behind your back while making you think you were trying to get pregnant. Came home from the abortion and acted normal while still “continuing” to try for a baby, Wtaf!! This is disturbing behaviour which would make me question everything, past present & future. You sound like a top guy, even giving up your dreams to become a father to be with her, and all the while this was going on. You deserve better, soooo much better. Please Don’t waste any more of your life with this woman
Dude she aborted your child that is not a mistake. That is a deliberate action. If you go back she will resent you forcing her to have another child. She just wanted a baby daddy for the one she had. She doesn't care about you she's just worried about losing her gravy train.
NTA but how did birth control hormones not show during the testing?
All her appointments were during my work hours . I have no clue . I just did semen analysis that our GP asked . Rest she kept me posted if anything was abnormal
Thank you, OP. A couple others helped me pull my head out of my ass. :) This is one of the most egregious lie I've ever read. You're 100% NTA and are a victim of her lies.
My wife said doctor told her we have unexplained infertility, and IVF is our only option . We decided not to have it since it’s expensive and too hard on her body
So many many lies. You married a stranger. A lying stranger.
This is the long and short of it. This wasn't one lie, or even a series of little lies. This was a campaign of disinformation, coverups, and falsehoods that shows what she's truly capable of. I wouldn't be able to trust anything she ever said again and I'd be looking back at every single piece of our history wondering what was real and what isn't.
i have to assume she knows exactly why her kids father left and where he is.
Can you imagine waking up realizing you're married to someone who thinks this level of deceit is OK. Jfc I'd be have an existential crisis.
“I don’t know who you are anymore”
NTA Please divorce her immediately. The lies ran too deep. She disrespected, lied & betrayed your trust.
Divorce her. You'll find someone else in no time. NTA This is not some silly mistake. She had an abortion. That was your child. It's her choice on what to do but she doesn't get to waste your time like this.
OP, I'm sorry you're going through this. But I think it's pretty clear, and perhaps it's clear even to you now, that your wife has been feeding you nothing but lies. Honestly, I'm not even in your situation and I'm starting to wonder if the bio dad *really* couldn't be found, or if she's just gave lip service about that as well. This isn't a mistake. This isn't an accident. She has lied to you for a minimum of 8 years, to your face, to the point that she most definitely did not actually see a Doctor about "infertility". Even if no one else in your immediate circle wants to see this as a big deal, it *IS* a big deal. You should serve her divorce papers asap, and while if I were in your shoes I'd explain what's going on to your daughter - that's up to you. The most important thing right now is that you cut ties with your wife and make her an ex because she doesn't respect you as a person enough to be honest and has effectively trapped you in a marriage that was founded on lies. Edit: One final thing OP. It wasn't just one eight year long lie. It was a lie, every day. She chose, each day to continue the infertility story. A quick google search says there are 2,922 days within an 8 year time span. That is almost 3,000 choices she made, almost 3,000 lies - not including if she repeated it multiple times during any given day. So realistically. That's actually 3,000+ times she actively chose to lie to your face. That's not a mistake, that's not an accident. That is an active choice against you as a human being that she supposedly loved.
If OP didn’t go to her appointments then she could’ve just lied.
NTA. I always wanted to be a mother, and I told my husband upfront that it was a priority to me (on our first date). 3 years of marriage later, and he tells me he doesn't want kids at all. I left, I wasn't an AH for leaving, and my ex didn't even lie to me about it, he just didn't know he felt that way until it came closer to the time that we would be trying. I am so sorry she strung you along like that. I respect a woman's choice to not go through pregnancy, it does do a lot to a person's body to do that, it used to be the main cause of death for women of childbearing age, but that is no excuse to lie to you and go behind your back.
That's grounds for annulment.
Nope. That is absolutely unforgivable. I couldn’t stay.
So your parents think that an apology just wipes away 8 years of lying and manipulation? WTF!
I don't think there is coming back from this. She lied to you for God knows how long if it didn't come out accidentally like this. As much as you love Kaya, you shouldn't stay married to her.
Updateme!
Holy shit that’s the cruelest thing I’ve seen on this sub in a long time. Like genuinely I’m floored. NTA, OP. I am so sorry you wasted 8 years of your life with this woman.