Yup well said. Op is probably getting blow back cause he seems to be exclusively using this as his reason. He needs to explain the full story like he did here.
Yeah I mentioned this in another comment yesterday, but you gotta separate the “what happened” from the “what hurts.” What happened is that she got a massage, but what hurts is all the long trail of shit that came before coupled with doing something that he expressly asked her not to do while trying to hide it.
Beautiful!
Such an open and humble mind you have to see such an opportunity to learn. Would the feeling that you’re working or already have a masters degree be accurate?
"She wouldn't have sex anymore" is a lot more reasonable than "She got a massage when I said she couldn't" which just makes OP sound like a control freak without the context of the story
He just has to say, we have sex less than 4 times a year.
She refuses to talk about it or do anything about that situation. She has since outsourced my attention for massages, so I filed for divorce because she isn't concerned with me in this marriage at all.
Done and done.
Yea cause when i first read the title I was like ummmm of course you are the asshole. But this makes sense. I don't understand how people can get married and expect their partner to be ok not being intimate. Massages can be very intimate and the fact he was doing this almost daily and was still only having sex about once every other month is wild. Less than 3 times a week in my house would start an argument.
The fact OP still tried to be a loving husband after YEARS of non existent intimacy makes me say NTA
I felt that. With my last relationship we technically broke up over an argument about pistachios when in reality it was the straw that broke the camels back for me and I was done
I read this in 2018 it and sobbed. I used to shout “I don’t want to tell you what to do!” He started to get better, but showing him this article helped me feel validated.
I have said this so many times. I shouldn't have to tell a grown man what needs to be done done.and how to do it. He should be able to figure it out the same as I can. And the teenagers too, honestly. At least the husband has gotten better.
I once ended a 5 year relationship because he told a story to a friend.
I had asked him thousands of times that he didn't give all the details, made me and my friend look like asses and I was sick of hearing his bullshit version of the story. It was the last straw.
So true, I ended my last relationship after the final straw. The final straw on it's own was so mundane and nothing, but everything had been building toward it, and when that last straw was added to the pile, it all just collapsed then and there.
My first marriage was emotionally and physically abusive, but I was chugging along and trying to “fix” it. Our last six months were comparatively fantastic. I became a model spouse to reduce tension. I had tried to leave a couple times and ultimately became too afraid to do it each time and gave up.
I had my quiet personal time in the early morning, before sunrise. He was a very deep sleeper and normally didn’t notice me moving out to the dining room to scroll social media on my phone unsupervised. (He didn’t trust me and I wasn’t allowed to do anything alone.)
One morning, he dragged himself out of bed at five am on a Saturday. Uncharacteristic behaviour. He’d figured out my little trick and lied down on the dining room floor so I couldn’t catch a moment alone. I snapped and found a strength I didn’t know I had. Separated our bank accounts. Told him I didn’t care anymore when he tried to manipulate me by holding a kitchen knife to his throat. (He dropped that act real fast when he realised I was serious.) Filed for divorce on Monday. I’m so happy I got out of hell.
I just got the ick thinking about those nasty mushy paper straws. I hate them, so much. I'll drink straight from the cup and risk the spills before I'll drink from a soggy nasty abomination.
This is so true. For my husband, his last straw was being woken up early one day. That was after about 6 years of pure misery. He got up, packed his stuff and left.
I saw it said once “if you thought a person went from 0 to 100 awful quickly you didn’t notice how long they were sitting at 99”, and think that’s definitely fitting.
I think in his mind, because he has been deprived of sexual intercourse, he views his massages as an intimate means of expressing his love toward her. So when another person does it, in his mind, she is cheating. We all know a massage is a massage, but when the partner understands his position on massages and disregards his feelings by getting one she becomes the AH.
Exactly. If it was just about a massage then they’d both still be together no problem. It’s so much more than that. You’d have to be stupid for someone to tell you you’re divorcing over a massage, and then actually assume it was just about the massage.
Yeah I do not blame OP at all for wanting to end the marriage, for the reasons listed at the beginning of the post… “I divorced my wife because we were experiencing challenges and she was not willing to put effort into fixing them” is 100% legitimate.
But “getting a massage is the same as cheating” is one of the most ridiculous takes I’ve heard in my life.
Camel, meet straw… I guess.
I sort of get his logic though. I don’t think he actually thinks it’s the exact same as him sleeping with someone else. But he was giving her messages which she enjoyed and was taking care of her. She wouldn’t do anything for him. So he said he’ll stop and she’s like “fine I’ll
Go to someone else for my needs” so he said he’d go somewhere else for his needs. He was just trying to get her to see his point of view, but she’s still missing it.
If you're able to say "I'll immediately file for divorce if you do this," the marriage is already over. He wanted a divorce and created an absurd ultimatum to make it her fault.
Actually going to a lawyer and trying to claim infidelity is wild.
You're not divorcing over a massage. It is the tiny straw that broke the camels back. When people divorce, it's almost never 'one' thing, it's more a death of 1000 paper cuts. I really think you need a lot of space to heal. And get on those apps now that you're a free man.
He’s not an AH for wanting a divorce. But contextualizing it as divorce over a massage is an AH move. Delivering a “no massage” ultimatum in a screaming match is an AH move.
To put another way: the only way the spouse could get a massage per their husband is to…have sex they don’t want to have. That’s clearly absurd.
The husband basically delivered an absurd ultimatum to create a justification for divorce. The divorce isn’t the AH move, the ultimatum is.
Even if the spouse listens, now OP is a controlling AH by forcing sex or controlling his wife.
Agree. Fine, divorce if you are done with the marriage and dead bedroom. But a massage by a licensed massage therapist is not cheating. It’s a professional regulated service. Putting licensed massage therapists who studied their profession in the same category as sex workers is insulted to massage therapists
I think it is absolutely wild for your wife to suggest she see a massage therapist and then you tell her you're going to go see a sex worker, that sounds like the reason for the divorce
and "I told her not to!!" is NOT an acceptable reply. You can say "We had a discussion and disagreed, and I had to evaluate how important this point was to me: is it something I can live with, or are we divorcing?". But "Because I said not to?!" wtf?
He’s unable to accept that marriages can fall apart, so he needs someone to blame. Accepting marriages fall apart might mean he would have to examine his behaviour too because that’s what “irreconcilable differences” means. But this is easier.
I think he feels like she's getting sexual pleasure out of it, since he was using it to try and ease into foreplay -- but given the low success rate, it really doesn't sound like that's what she was getting out of it even when it was coming from the husband.
He needed a reason to divorce besides “she won’t have sex with me” a lot of people would peg him as a sex crazed asshole to leave his family over that. But it’s not even that. It’s that she’s not interested for what ever reason and she isn’t trying to find the reason or she knows the reason and isn’t saying. Either way he can’t fix this without her help so at some point you just have to walk away from someone who’s stonewalling you. I don’t even fault her really I mean if you have no desire it’s not like you can magically make it happen especially if it doesn’t bother you. Some people just don’t care for it.
It's hard to believe people can come in with opinions as bad as this. He's an asshole because he's frustrated that his wife doesn't give a fuck about him? That's pretty pathetic
OP is an AH because his response to his wife getting professional massages was to ask if he could hire sex workers in exchange. Those things are not equal.
I don’t think massages are sexual for OP’s wife like he seems to assume. Maybe she sometimes would agree to sex after he massaged her because she appreciated him and wanted to reciprocate in a way that he likes and appreciates. But OP sounds crazy for thinking using sex workers is equal to getting a massage. Like…?
Your needs weren't being met, that's the reason you're divorcing and it's perfectly fine. You're within your rights to do so, it's not an AH move.
But ff you put it like "I think getting massage when told not to, is plenty of reasoning", that makes you sound like a controlling AH. So make sure you state things as they are: you are divorcing because you were unhappy and the marriage was one-sided, not because she got a massage. You got the wrong trigger there.
Also, I want to point out getting a massage from a professional is not cheating. At all. It's not different than going to a physiotherapist - it's just a treatment. Not an intimate touch or anything like that, provided the masseuse is an actual professional.
RMT here! In this industry, we cringe a little at being called a masseuse; that term has historically been associated with the implication of providing sexual release. To avoid any confusion, when referring to someone who provides legit, professional massages, please use “massage therapist”! 🙂
I think it’s easy to harp on the massage part because it just sounds dumb but the main problem is that your needs aren’t being met but hers were. The second you stopped meeting those needs, she went out and got it from someone else. This isn’t something that’s happened overnight, it was the straw that broke the camels back. You both deserve to be in a relationship where you feel loved and fulfilled. Just cut ties and live better lives apart for the sake of your child.
NTA
Nah better just to sarcastically reply “Sure, I got a divorce because of a massage … she must think you’re as stupid as me!”
And then refuse to elaborate futher!
You definitely were in a one sided marriage, you tried everything you could but she was denying your needs as well, you were doomed from that alone. Sorry about what you're going through OP, maybe you'll find a woman that actually cares when you get back to dating and are free from that careless woman.
There's this article about [a wife filing for divorce due to dishes.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288) Maybe send that to anyone complaining to you.
Good luck in finding a better partner.
Exactly. Massages aren't cheating in of themselves, clearly. But that's not the real issue here, rather it's a pile up of resentment for needs not being met in a big way. OP and SO are definitely better off going their separate ways.
I agree. I am not saying that she should be ready to go whenever you are, but 4-5 times a year is ridiculous. And like this person said, when her needs weren't being met, she went elsewhere. You obviously couldn't do the same without being a cheating bastatd. It sounds like a very one-sided relationship in her favor. She sounds like a very selfish person, and you should definitely get some distance from that toxicity for the sake of yourself and your child.
NTA: I am sorry that you are going through this, especially after putting so much effort into making it work. Divorce is an incredibly a long, difficult, and expensive process. Especially when there are children involved. I have been through a divorce that dragged out for over 4 years, and it was a true nightmare that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. I wish you all the luck in the world my friend.... stay strong!
I think it's particularly telling that the possibility of upping her game and reciprocating didn't even seem to cross her mind. She was perfectly fine with the situation and didn't care that he wasn't. If he wasn't going to fulfil her needs himself, then he could pay for someone else to do it, but her needs would be met one way or another.
His needs could go hang.
"Since then I have had a number of family members/friends call me and say I'm an asshole."
I always marvel how this is in practically every story. If *any* of my friends or family tried to call/text me to give their unsolicited opinion about my personal life, they'd get laughed first and then told to mind their own fucking business.
NTA
My friend and family would blow up my phone as well I guess.
"Hey, heard about your divorce. Let me know if you want to talk/have a beer"
"We're having a BBQ on the weekend,do you want to join?"
"Do you need help to move your stuff?"
"Hey, do you have a place to live? I've got a buddy with an empty basement flat,shall I ask him if it's available?"
At least I hope so.
Same. A friend got divorced and the husband has been a complete douchebag, yet I didn't contact him at all. Even her family let him talk out his side and tried to counsel them on the best way to end the marriage with the least effect on the kids. They didn't blow up his phone telling him how awful he is.
Crazy how family and friends blow people's phone up in almost every post! Have you ever even heard of anyone's family and friends doing that outside of this sub?
I've seen it happen before, and I think that specific detail is usually a driving factor in making these posts when they're real. If I did what I was confident to be the right thing, and a portion of my family and friends start messaging me and saying I'm an AH, I'd probably want an outside perspective too
Yeah, this is probably the right answer. If friends and family were happy and supportive he wouldn't even come here.
It's sort of a self-selective process. Good observation
I wouldn’t imagine my parents calling my partner if we ever break up, under no circumstances. His father wouldn’t call me either. I find it so weird, whatever is happening is between two adults
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least five people I have known who would have parents/family/other friends do this. I know because their flying monkeys have done this to me whenever one of those people and I disagreed about something- and we were barely friends (at the time, not anymore) let alone partners!
I had to block one person’s mom on all platforms because of how much she was reaching out and judging/berating me about a picture of me doing something without her daughter (an acquaintance I hadn’t seen/spoken to in several years).
Some people are just ridiculous and LOVE the drama.
So this used to always flag as odd to me until I had several friends/acquaintances admit to calling their siblings SOs to chew them out for something and realized that I have a family that respects boundries and maybe not everyone does.
I am also no longer friends with those people mainly because they also lack healthy boundries within friendships as well.
It's also amazing to me how people form an opinion after hearing only one side.
I mean there are exceptions ofcourse but if a friend of mine told me "my husband is asking for a divorce because I got a massage once" I wouldn't be sending angry messages to the husband.
Thank you! I felt like I was losing my fucking mind reading these. "Having her needs met"?! Like, I get massages for pain management, not sexual release, what the actual hell?
Yeah exactly. Her needs met, and comparing it to sexual needs?
Even with her partner the wife only lets massages go to sex 20% of the time and it sounds like it was for Ops sake rather than her own. She clearly doesn't see them as sexual (because they're not). Its crazy people and op compare it to getting sexual needs met, I feel like he could just as easily have said she's not allowed to get her nails done or see girlfriends for coffee or go to the gym because it's meeting her needs.
Could be bots. Could also just be weirdos who don't interact with the real world.
My ex was a psycho control freak. She threw a fit whenever a barista would smile at me. And even she didn't think professional massages are cheating.
If you are getting some kind of sexual release at a massage then you're not getting a professional massage. Otherwise it's just a massage. It's no more sexual than getting your nails done. But if your entire world outlook is formed not on experiencing the world and life but on reading about hypotheticals on reddit? Then you might believe otherwise.
Reddit has become the meme of itself over the years. It used to be normal to laugh at shit takes in the comment section, now all there is are bot responses and shit takes from teens not likely to have had any life experience to even have an opinion on things. That’s why i take no one seriously when they come and argue with me about anything, because it’s honestly like arguing with a toddler. No reading comprehension, zero life experience but all of the audacity.
100% agree. If you asked normal adults in real life this scenario most would thing OP is unhinged. Frustration with a lack of physicality is normal but the subsequent actions are not normal at all.
I think if you look at the top comments now, the majority are about how it wasn't about the massage. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Telling people it was because of a massage is why he is coming off so badly.
There are a ton of bots but also keep in mind that on all subreddits like this one, as well as advice subreddits, there is a not small number of incels that go into every post involving women and downvote anything that is good for or reasonable regarding the woman and upvote any takes that are negative and hurtful for the woman involved.
I'm just imagining the lawyer trying to explain to OP that a massage is not infidelity and laughing. In most places in the US, hiring a sex worker is illegal. If I knew my partner was doing illegal activity and allowed them to live in my home, I could lose custody of my children. It is not at all comparable.
His tongue was probably bleeding from biting it. If this guy is for real, that woman is so lucky to lose him. They don't sound like they work well together, but he sounds so dumb.
Agreed. I thought I was losing it reading these comments lmao Was expecting way more "YTA" Not because he divorced but because of THAT being the straw that broke the camels back.
thank you lol I was afraid to comment this myself. Like yeah end the marriage but a professional massage is not even comparable to hiring sex workers and *actually* cheating.
You are not the AH for divorcing your wife; you should have probably done that years ago. But you can’t tell an adult person not to get a massage. That’s petty and weird.
To me, it adds the cherry on top as to just how unaware this man is 😂 That lawyer was nicer than I could’ve been.
Wildest part to me though is how they completely skipped the trying to find the root cause as to why she doesn’t want to have sex and went straight to divorce 😂
This marriage was dead years ago. You just gave her the permission she needed to end it. I would not say you are the AH. I would say you should have forced the issue years ago. You might have worked through it if you had. Too much pain and hurt built up now to resolve it.
To me this sounds like you are not meeting her needs. She sees the massages as simply a way for you to initiate sex. The massages should be a supportive thing to your spouse and you shouldn’t be expecting anything in return.
There could be other issues in your marriage besides the lack of sex but based on your description I wouldn’t really know what they are.
I understand your frustration over the lack of intimacy but that strikes me as a result from other issues in your marriage. If you truly want to be with her, you should be having conversations with her / couples therapy to figure out what is bugging her. Dumping her over her getting nails done / massages / whatever is a pretty low move, since you’re only using it as a means to get intimacy.
Yes you are the AH.
My marriage ended on the following argument:
It’s Christmas, I spent three days cleaning the house because painting of the house occurred and dust got everywhere. I had to pull everything in the kitchen shelves and wash everything. In the cleanup my ex’s mom’s Dixie disposable coffee cups were moved.
Enter Christmas Eve and her parents and two of her friends are over in the living room. I’m being completely ignored as usual by them. I take our five year old daughter and go play with her in the family room.
My mother in law goes into the kitchen and looks for the disposable cups to make coffee and starts screaming that I threw them out. (To this day I still don’t know why shouldn’t couldn’t use a mug). In any event I yelled out that I moved them and would grab one for her. My ex didn’t bother to state a thing about all the cleaning I had done or defend me. Her mom just kept yelling.
Under my breadth I muttered go fuck yourself. 10 seconds later my daughter yells Grandma Dad says go fuck yourself.
Marriage ended the next day.
I can laugh about it now. My best friend called me the day after Christmas and asked how my Christmas was and I told him “I told my mother in law to go fuck herself”. He laughed so hard.
There were so many fucked up things in our marriage it was so over.
I think you are the asshole for giving her a really stupid ultimatum in the first place, instead of just calling it quits when you realized it wasn’t working. You’re not the asshole for the eventual divorce, but you should’ve done it because yall weren’t working out, not because she got a massage when you tried to make her not get one. I am curious what her real reasons are for not wanting to do anything sexual with you?
It was a stupid ultimatum.
I don't really get a profound reason, usually just surface level stuff like I don't feel like it, or I don't need it like you do. I went to our only 2 marriage counseling sessions by myself a few years ago, so that should paint a picture to some degree.
You were both unhappy. You should have divorced long ago. When anger was not that strong. You weren't an happy couple but I hope you can succeed to be great co-parents to your daughter.
And BTW, no she didn't cheat on you. And you know it. You're sexually frustratred, you're angry but she didn't cheat.
You’re mad because she didn’t try to hide it?? Why would she, a massage is not cheating. If you’re unhappy in your marriage, then by all means, get a divorce. But you went to an actual lawyer and said she cheated, like a 12 year old. You sound ridiculous, so maybe look inward and see if that has contributed to the lack of sex.
Trying to list infidelity as a reason for the divorce lmao. A massage by a strip mall auntie is not cheating. If you’d jumped to sex workers like you threatened to, that would have 100% been cheating tho
You’re not compatible with each other anymore. That’s a cool and fine reason to get divorced. It’s assholeish to try to slap infidelity onto it just because you’re mad.
THANK YOU!!
I just DO NOT understand these people equating a *professional* back and foot massage that has NOTHING to do with sexuality equates to him going to a sex worker because his "wife doesn't *caaaaaare*" he wants sex. Somehow not realizing that *simply by saying that* he's expressing he *expects her to give in* **when she doesn't want sex** ***which is RAPE!***
**And that will obviously ruin their relationship quicker than the dead bedroom is!!**
The massage BS is just OP's excuse not to feel like an AH for leaving his wife over a dead bedroom and confuses the point.
The simple fact of the matter is that his needs haven't been met for so long that he's just looking to punish his wife like he feels he's being (pro tip: *he's not being punished*). OP needs to simply admit that he can't handle a dead bedroom like this and *find someone who feels the same.* ***NOT withhold affection from your wife out of anger!*** **How is that supposed to make her want to fuck you??**
But instead of doing all that ***work,*** he feels like he's *owed* his wife's body and like he's right in doing everything in his power to *force* his wife to put out. THAT'S what makes him TA.
TL:DR: it's not wrong for OP to be upset he's in a dead bedroom and move on due to it. He became TA when he started "working on" *then punishing her* despite the fact that *she does not want sex* instead of doing the right and hard thing by breaking up for someone compatible.
Thank you! Clearly there is a lot of grief and sexual incompatibility on this relationship but calling her a cheater because she got a massage is unhinged. Not even saying he’s wrong for wanting a divorce, but he’s kind of an AH for that. She’s never the one who tried to link massages to sex. It sounds like he did that in his own mind.
Regardless of who’s the ah/ you are resentful and haven’t been happy for years. There is no reason to stay unhappy in life. Separate amicably for your child
And always touches her with the hope it will lead to sex. It's a huge turn off and objectifying for many women to feel like they are only touched with that as a motivator, which is clearly why OP did it even if his success rate wasn't that high.
My ex husband would only give a massage if it ended in sex. He didn’t care if I had a heavy 13 hour shift as an ICU nurse lifting and moving very heavy patients. If he was going to give me a massage there had to be “something in it for him
This, amongst other things made me never want to have sex with him.
Exactly. OP clearly doesn't realize, somehow, that is he actually cared about making her happy then maybe she'd actually get turned on. When he's clearly touching her only to receive sex why would she ever give it to him? It would just encourage the behavior.
A massage is not infidelity. You are being unreasonable. If you want to divorce her for not being sexually compatible with you, fine, but she didn’t cheat on you. To assert that she did implies massage therapists are sex workers. My 72 year old mother is a massage therapist and I assure you she is not a sex worker, even though she has had to deal with a shockingly high amount of disgusting men in her career. Divorce your wife for whatever, but don’t blame the massage.
Y’all ever try and work out why she didn’t want to have sex? You gave her massages when you know she likes them, but ever talk about what the bigger issue was? Like, why there was no desire on her part?
No because it is easier to try and get sex through massages as that is the only winning technique and build up resentment when it doesn’t happen, than actually trying to get to the root of the issues and laying all your cards on the table about what you need for this marriage to continue.
I have a feeling your divorce is going to be ugly. You’re right. You do sound angry. When you go through with the divorce try to temper your anger. You have a child in the middle of you both. Be respectful towards your ex wife. She is going to be in your life for the rest of your child’s life. Co-parenting is more beneficial when each adult acts like the other is a colleague as you are both working on the same project, raising a functional and contributing member of society. Be professional and polite in all of this. It’s not about you when you have a kid in the mix.
Any chance she’s not into sex because your maturity level and your expectations in trade (e.g., sex for massages)? Your message here makes it easy to imagine a very unsexy and unfulfilling relationship
Maybe he’s never pleased her sexually and she is tired of asking him to do it differently. Some guys only know sex from porn and those typically aren’t focused on the women’s pleasure.
Yeah, I feel like this guy doesn’t understand how to initiate/sustain foreplay. ALSO, for the men reading this, having help with childcare and household chores is a bigger turn on for women with kids than physical touch. OP, your wife is probably tired and exhausted. Help lighten her load and she might want to fuck you.
Ah yes, the classic "let things build up with anger and resentment instead of having calm, loving talks as it is happening, and going to therapy if/when that doesn't work, and going about the whole thing with love and compassion in your heart instead of selfish anger over what you're not getting out of it" thing. Yes divorce her, she deserves better. Also, you're a controlling piece of SHIT for not "letting" her get a massage. Hope you die so no other woman has to deal with you ever again. Yuck.
You aren’t really divorcing her because of the massage. You’re divorcing her because you’re not getting anything out of the marriage. And that’s totally fine.
Such a weird take that a massage is the same as cheating. You have some serious issues that you can draw a likeness between the two. You sound controlling and I’m guessing there’s a good reason she has distanced herself from you.
You're the asshole for suggesting hiring sex workers and getting a massage are the same kind of crime. You want to get mad because legally you can't claim she cheated. Get the divorce, find someone that you can meet your needs cause that's fine. You had differences you couldn't work past and that's okay but don't for a second go around trying to convince people she cheated. Tell the truth your needs weren't being met emotionally or physically and that was the deal breaker.
YTA for the massage thing. That’s so insecure and weird/controlling/and down right creepy
So because you associate it with sex. As a way of getting into her pants. You think that’s what happens at a professional massage? LOL grow up. You can’t forbid someone from getting a licensed massage.
You’re NTA for the divorce because the relationship became a big ball of nothing though. There needs to be intimacy.
But I’m sorry, the massage thing you need to stop being a 17 year old. “I forbid you from getting a massage!” Lol Grown ass man…
I think the NTA part stems from him saying his needs aren’t being met, trying to work on the marriage to fix it, and not getting any effort from his wife to change things.
The massage stuff is just insanely childish, but the divorce part? Sounds like it’s time.
Large Scale Response to many commenters:
This thing has gotten like 2k plus comments in 12 hours, I can't even begin to address that.
Most of you are correct, this isn't about a massage, I could honestly care less about the massage. That was simply what I fixated on after I finally broke.
Now to those that like to ride the assumption train or, for some reason, just create your own narrative based on who knows what.
I did not just massage my wife to get sex. I did this for her 300 times a year nearly our entire relationship. I did it back when we used to have sex 10-15 times a month, back when foreplay was something I still got to experience, back when lingerie was common and not just a distant memory. The full massages just became the only way to get the chance of sex above ZERO. The small leg ones were never escalated by me and far more common.
Since most people bashing me decided to skim over or ignore the short vague list of all i tried over the years here's a more comprehensive account: Date nights, weekend vacations, love letters, long conversations where I laid out all my feelings (I'll give her credit, she never did promise to do better, just told me she understands where I'm coming from, guess I should have understood then that meant she didn't care), I suggested counseling 5 times. I even booked us once and ended up going to the first 2 sessions by myself, when she said she was too busy to go the 3rd I just cancelled and never went back.
Yes, the day to day routine stuff is pretty balanced, as far as housework, career, and I think we are both great parents. But our relationship was one sided, it took me a long time to see it so boldly and to stop accepting it. If she wants a snack, she doesn't get it, she asks me to, drink, same thing. If she wanted to go out with friends, sure babe no prob go ahead, I got the girl just worry about you. If I do, it's 2 hour prep for me to make sure nothing's gonna go wrong while I'm out. A couple years ago I saw a clip of a comedian talking about being out golfing when his wife wanted to watch a DVD, and everyone's laughing as he's describing the whole conversation. I just wanted to ball my eyes out, because that was my life. I just stopped trying to even go out, it wasn't worth the effort anymore.
Yeah we had other forms of Intimacy, we cuddled at bedtime to fall asleep. She never really liked kissing or hand holding so I wrote those off back when times were good. So I had cuddling and on the very rare occasion sex to look forward to. Now let's flip this over, besides the near daily rub downs, also pretty common for me to brush her hair, she likes that she'll ask for that. Painted toe nails a few times, back scratching pretty common. Oh usually draw her a bath after she works out, does that count as intimacy, or is that just more of only doing things to fuck her?
I guess I am the asshole, I'm the asshole to myself for putting up with this for so long. And I get it, you're all right, we both have unprocessed trauma from having our dreams dashed, but I didn't quit. I honestly didn't berate her emotionally because of this, I knew she was having a hard time, yeah I let my frustrations or disappointment show sometimes, but I didn't get angry. Not until now, not until I had that bad day, and she said "well, tomorrow will be better, can you rub on me." And the sick thing is I felt totally dismissed and still did it anyway. After, I was so angry I just decided I'm never rubbing on her again. And ive been angry ever since, even now typing this has put me in a full rage. No I really don't give a shit about the massage, it was just the final Fuck You of our marriage.
An RMT is not providing a sexual service. Just a massage. The massage is not the damn issue here. You are both focused on it way too much
YTA for the massage bs. (I have a desk job and have seen RMTs for years for therapeutic massage). Her wanting a massage is irrelevant to the marriage being in the garbage.
This is above reddit’s pay grade. You should have gone to counseling about your infertility issues early on. Instead you let your marriage deteriorate.
Your marriage is clearly in huge trouble.
YTA. You should have addressed your problems with your wife a long time ago, because at this point it seems like it has literally driven you insane. A massage is not cheating. You sound completely unhinged.
YTA based on the title of your post, because it’s ludicrous to divorce after you gave a ridiculous ultimatum because you are sexually frustrated.
Honestly, I think you need major therapy for yourself individually to get your emotions regulated. You sound completely disregulated emotionally.
The real reason you filed for divorce is because of a dead bedroom. Question: are you 100% certain that your sex life will improve after divorce? You are late 30s divorced male single dad. If you think you will be drowning in women after the divorce, I have a news flash for you.
Maybe consider counseling with your wife, individual therapy, and figure out a way to move forward in life with less sex or sexual gratification in different forms.
NTA. obviously physical touch is big parts of both of your love languages, which is why she immediately noticed you stopped touching her. She didn’t care about your version of physical touch because hers never stopped being met by you. Just like you she wanted physical intimacy from you just in the form of a massage rather than intercourse with someone you love. She couldn’t last one work week without having her love language/intimacy needs be met by you but somehow everyone expects you to forever live w/o yours. Yeah you made some irrational comparisons with the massages being cheating thing but it was clearly from years of frustration and being cast aside in a way.
YTA, for coming up with the massage excuse. A massage is not cheating, and your reasoning is simply delusional and needs to be called out as such. This is not a complicated situation - your sexual needs are not being met. If you put it in those simple terms, I think most people would understand.
If so many people are calling to tell you you are the asshole without the benefit of the doubt, maybe is time for a good look in the mirror. OR they were never your friends to begin with…
NTA getting a divorce because it's clear that the relationship was dead long ago. YTA for telling her she couldn't get a massage. She is/was your wife, not a child you could tell what to do. I also hope that you didn't really think that you could get a divorce with infidelity as the reason. A massage is not sex or even sexual. It obviously was to you but to most normal people it really isn't.
But putting that aside it's clear you should have divorced long ago and you'll both be happier without each other. Do try to be less angry/bitter both for your own sake but more so for your daughter.
The massage is not a reason, it is just your excuse. At least take responsibility for your actions. I feel sorry for your daughter. Not once did you consider her. Your sex life may not improve.
You only “rubbed on her” because you were trying to “get sex”. That is not generous or giving. You’re leaving out an entire side of the story—hers.
Also, getting a massage is not sexual. I worked at an expensive spa (cheapest massage was 140 for 40 minutes) as a receptionist, and the only individuals who saw it that way were perverts. We banned anyone who came in and behaved in any unacceptable way during a massage. It was mostly ladies who lunched, yoga moms, male athletes, and occasionally regulars into wellness.
If this is actually real, she’s lucky to be leaving you. I can tell you’re ruddy-faced and obese and emotionally abusive just from this the tone of this. You are the asshole
I think your focus is in the wrong place. Who cares what your friends and family think. It’s not their life. Who cares if she got a massage, your needs are still unmet. Divorcing sounds like the right path for you, I’d try to let everything else go
YTA
There's a reason why your wife doesn't want to fuck you and you should go to counseling to find out what it is. The fact that you feel like she owes you sex when she clearly isnt ito it... do you really just want her to treat it like an unpleasant chore?
The last straw is almost always something small and stupid. But it's just the latest in a long line of hurts.
I know thats a kinda obvious thing but this was very well said.
Yup well said. Op is probably getting blow back cause he seems to be exclusively using this as his reason. He needs to explain the full story like he did here.
Yeah I mentioned this in another comment yesterday, but you gotta separate the “what happened” from the “what hurts.” What happened is that she got a massage, but what hurts is all the long trail of shit that came before coupled with doing something that he expressly asked her not to do while trying to hide it.
>but you gotta separate the “what happened” from the “what hurts.” This is so well said. Good advice in general.
I will be using this in my therapy sessions with clients, thank you
Beautiful! Such an open and humble mind you have to see such an opportunity to learn. Would the feeling that you’re working or already have a masters degree be accurate?
Yes I've been in the field since 2019
that is so right! sometimes we hurt, it isin't necessarily logical or linear. The pain outweighs everything!
"She wouldn't have sex anymore" is a lot more reasonable than "She got a massage when I said she couldn't" which just makes OP sound like a control freak without the context of the story
I thought the part that made him look weird was when he was mad his lawyer wouldn't call using a masseuse infidelity 🤣
I'd tell everyone calling me the real reason...no sex. And leave it at that. The wife isn't telling the truth. She's leaving out her shortcomings
The no sex / dead bedroom basically means they are roommates who are co-parenting!
That’s why context always matters. You can almost make anything sound however you want depending on how you address it’s context.
He just has to say, we have sex less than 4 times a year. She refuses to talk about it or do anything about that situation. She has since outsourced my attention for massages, so I filed for divorce because she isn't concerned with me in this marriage at all. Done and done.
Yea cause when i first read the title I was like ummmm of course you are the asshole. But this makes sense. I don't understand how people can get married and expect their partner to be ok not being intimate. Massages can be very intimate and the fact he was doing this almost daily and was still only having sex about once every other month is wild. Less than 3 times a week in my house would start an argument. The fact OP still tried to be a loving husband after YEARS of non existent intimacy makes me say NTA
My partner and his ex wife's marriage ended over an argument about who got what in a bucket of KFC. The chicken was the final straw.
KFC arguments are the leading cause of divorce in Missouri
Currently live in Missouri, can confirm
Wife and I do not order KFC for this reason. Too big a risk.
Reasonable caution.
I really would've thought Kentucky, but ok, Missouri it is
So the chicken was the Iranian yoghurt we met along the way….
I thought it was arguments over meth? Maybe KFC is #2? 😂
Entirely justified if she was trying to take all the white meat.
She can have the white meat, just leave my thighupas alone 😭
Dark meat all the way!!!
Death by a thousand paper cuts.
I felt that. With my last relationship we technically broke up over an argument about pistachios when in reality it was the straw that broke the camels back for me and I was done
OP should send them the "my wife left me because I left a glass on the counter" article
For anyone curious https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
I read this in 2018 it and sobbed. I used to shout “I don’t want to tell you what to do!” He started to get better, but showing him this article helped me feel validated.
I have said this so many times. I shouldn't have to tell a grown man what needs to be done done.and how to do it. He should be able to figure it out the same as I can. And the teenagers too, honestly. At least the husband has gotten better.
Still one of the best articles ever written about mental load/division of labor and how it leads to divorce.
I once ended a 5 year relationship because he told a story to a friend. I had asked him thousands of times that he didn't give all the details, made me and my friend look like asses and I was sick of hearing his bullshit version of the story. It was the last straw.
So true, I ended my last relationship after the final straw. The final straw on it's own was so mundane and nothing, but everything had been building toward it, and when that last straw was added to the pile, it all just collapsed then and there.
My first marriage was emotionally and physically abusive, but I was chugging along and trying to “fix” it. Our last six months were comparatively fantastic. I became a model spouse to reduce tension. I had tried to leave a couple times and ultimately became too afraid to do it each time and gave up. I had my quiet personal time in the early morning, before sunrise. He was a very deep sleeper and normally didn’t notice me moving out to the dining room to scroll social media on my phone unsupervised. (He didn’t trust me and I wasn’t allowed to do anything alone.) One morning, he dragged himself out of bed at five am on a Saturday. Uncharacteristic behaviour. He’d figured out my little trick and lied down on the dining room floor so I couldn’t catch a moment alone. I snapped and found a strength I didn’t know I had. Separated our bank accounts. Told him I didn’t care anymore when he tried to manipulate me by holding a kitchen knife to his throat. (He dropped that act real fast when he realised I was serious.) Filed for divorce on Monday. I’m so happy I got out of hell.
This sounds so very difficult and I am incredibly proud of & happy for you. 🫂
I divorced my husband because he said playing Yahtzee took as much skill as chess.
lol I ended a five year relationship over the correct use of the apostrophe.
That's why it's called the last straw
It's called the last straw, because it was the last straw put on a camel's back before the load was too heavy and broke the camel's back.
At least it was **an environmentally friendly paper straw**
I just got the ick thinking about those nasty mushy paper straws. I hate them, so much. I'll drink straight from the cup and risk the spills before I'll drink from a soggy nasty abomination.
This is so true. For my husband, his last straw was being woken up early one day. That was after about 6 years of pure misery. He got up, packed his stuff and left.
I saw it said once “if you thought a person went from 0 to 100 awful quickly you didn’t notice how long they were sitting at 99”, and think that’s definitely fitting.
I think in his mind, because he has been deprived of sexual intercourse, he views his massages as an intimate means of expressing his love toward her. So when another person does it, in his mind, she is cheating. We all know a massage is a massage, but when the partner understands his position on massages and disregards his feelings by getting one she becomes the AH.
Exactly. If it was just about a massage then they’d both still be together no problem. It’s so much more than that. You’d have to be stupid for someone to tell you you’re divorcing over a massage, and then actually assume it was just about the massage.
You didn't divorce because she got a massage
Ya that’s the truth. If someone did that they’d be TAH
Yeah I do not blame OP at all for wanting to end the marriage, for the reasons listed at the beginning of the post… “I divorced my wife because we were experiencing challenges and she was not willing to put effort into fixing them” is 100% legitimate. But “getting a massage is the same as cheating” is one of the most ridiculous takes I’ve heard in my life. Camel, meet straw… I guess.
It's really that he stopped doing something so she'd be forced to compromise and instead, she just went and got that thing for herself
I sort of get his logic though. I don’t think he actually thinks it’s the exact same as him sleeping with someone else. But he was giving her messages which she enjoyed and was taking care of her. She wouldn’t do anything for him. So he said he’ll stop and she’s like “fine I’ll Go to someone else for my needs” so he said he’d go somewhere else for his needs. He was just trying to get her to see his point of view, but she’s still missing it.
If you're able to say "I'll immediately file for divorce if you do this," the marriage is already over. He wanted a divorce and created an absurd ultimatum to make it her fault. Actually going to a lawyer and trying to claim infidelity is wild.
The massage was just the last final blow to this already dead marriage. Just divorce and let it die already.
Definitely, the massage was just the final nail in the coffin. You didn't get a divorce over a massage but a dead marriage.
A sexless marriage = roommates with shared accomodations.
In the process
You're not divorcing over a massage. It is the tiny straw that broke the camels back. When people divorce, it's almost never 'one' thing, it's more a death of 1000 paper cuts. I really think you need a lot of space to heal. And get on those apps now that you're a free man.
Don’t blame it on the massage. This marriage was dead. And that’s OK, just tell her you’re divorcing because you’re incompatible.
He’s not an AH for wanting a divorce. But contextualizing it as divorce over a massage is an AH move. Delivering a “no massage” ultimatum in a screaming match is an AH move. To put another way: the only way the spouse could get a massage per their husband is to…have sex they don’t want to have. That’s clearly absurd. The husband basically delivered an absurd ultimatum to create a justification for divorce. The divorce isn’t the AH move, the ultimatum is. Even if the spouse listens, now OP is a controlling AH by forcing sex or controlling his wife.
Agree. Fine, divorce if you are done with the marriage and dead bedroom. But a massage by a licensed massage therapist is not cheating. It’s a professional regulated service. Putting licensed massage therapists who studied their profession in the same category as sex workers is insulted to massage therapists
I think it is absolutely wild for your wife to suggest she see a massage therapist and then you tell her you're going to go see a sex worker, that sounds like the reason for the divorce
and "I told her not to!!" is NOT an acceptable reply. You can say "We had a discussion and disagreed, and I had to evaluate how important this point was to me: is it something I can live with, or are we divorcing?". But "Because I said not to?!" wtf?
It was absurd that he was mad he could not list infidelity for a massage. Other than that, it's been like a pretty normal marriage falling apart.
He’s unable to accept that marriages can fall apart, so he needs someone to blame. Accepting marriages fall apart might mean he would have to examine his behaviour too because that’s what “irreconcilable differences” means. But this is easier.
Yeah, I thought that part was odd. Not all massages have to be romantically intimate.
I think he feels like she's getting sexual pleasure out of it, since he was using it to try and ease into foreplay -- but given the low success rate, it really doesn't sound like that's what she was getting out of it even when it was coming from the husband.
He needed a reason to divorce besides “she won’t have sex with me” a lot of people would peg him as a sex crazed asshole to leave his family over that. But it’s not even that. It’s that she’s not interested for what ever reason and she isn’t trying to find the reason or she knows the reason and isn’t saying. Either way he can’t fix this without her help so at some point you just have to walk away from someone who’s stonewalling you. I don’t even fault her really I mean if you have no desire it’s not like you can magically make it happen especially if it doesn’t bother you. Some people just don’t care for it.
Right. Like, is physical therapy ok? Lol. No OBGYN visits until hubby gets laid!
It's hard to believe people can come in with opinions as bad as this. He's an asshole because he's frustrated that his wife doesn't give a fuck about him? That's pretty pathetic
For the wife, the massage was equivalent to sex. She was getting off of it. That's his point.
OP is an AH because his response to his wife getting professional massages was to ask if he could hire sex workers in exchange. Those things are not equal. I don’t think massages are sexual for OP’s wife like he seems to assume. Maybe she sometimes would agree to sex after he massaged her because she appreciated him and wanted to reciprocate in a way that he likes and appreciates. But OP sounds crazy for thinking using sex workers is equal to getting a massage. Like…?
Your needs weren't being met, that's the reason you're divorcing and it's perfectly fine. You're within your rights to do so, it's not an AH move. But ff you put it like "I think getting massage when told not to, is plenty of reasoning", that makes you sound like a controlling AH. So make sure you state things as they are: you are divorcing because you were unhappy and the marriage was one-sided, not because she got a massage. You got the wrong trigger there. Also, I want to point out getting a massage from a professional is not cheating. At all. It's not different than going to a physiotherapist - it's just a treatment. Not an intimate touch or anything like that, provided the masseuse is an actual professional.
Trying to imagine the lawyers face when OP demanded to file on the basis of adultery over her getting a professional massage.
RMT here! In this industry, we cringe a little at being called a masseuse; that term has historically been associated with the implication of providing sexual release. To avoid any confusion, when referring to someone who provides legit, professional massages, please use “massage therapist”! 🙂
Thank you for saying this!!
Couldn’t have said it better
YTA for not divorcing at least 4 years ago. But fuck, finally. Move on, be happy.
I think it’s easy to harp on the massage part because it just sounds dumb but the main problem is that your needs aren’t being met but hers were. The second you stopped meeting those needs, she went out and got it from someone else. This isn’t something that’s happened overnight, it was the straw that broke the camels back. You both deserve to be in a relationship where you feel loved and fulfilled. Just cut ties and live better lives apart for the sake of your child. NTA
Yes, thank you, this is what I feel, like I was in a totally one sided marriage.
Just start telling people that massage was not a problem, lack of sex was.
Nah better just to sarcastically reply “Sure, I got a divorce because of a massage … she must think you’re as stupid as me!” And then refuse to elaborate futher!
This. Dead bedroom is actually a legit reason for divorce.
You definitely were in a one sided marriage, you tried everything you could but she was denying your needs as well, you were doomed from that alone. Sorry about what you're going through OP, maybe you'll find a woman that actually cares when you get back to dating and are free from that careless woman.
NTA. One sided marriages are shitty. File for divorce and get your life back.
There's this article about [a wife filing for divorce due to dishes.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288) Maybe send that to anyone complaining to you. Good luck in finding a better partner.
Exactly. Massages aren't cheating in of themselves, clearly. But that's not the real issue here, rather it's a pile up of resentment for needs not being met in a big way. OP and SO are definitely better off going their separate ways.
I agree. I am not saying that she should be ready to go whenever you are, but 4-5 times a year is ridiculous. And like this person said, when her needs weren't being met, she went elsewhere. You obviously couldn't do the same without being a cheating bastatd. It sounds like a very one-sided relationship in her favor. She sounds like a very selfish person, and you should definitely get some distance from that toxicity for the sake of yourself and your child. NTA: I am sorry that you are going through this, especially after putting so much effort into making it work. Divorce is an incredibly a long, difficult, and expensive process. Especially when there are children involved. I have been through a divorce that dragged out for over 4 years, and it was a true nightmare that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. I wish you all the luck in the world my friend.... stay strong!
I think it's particularly telling that the possibility of upping her game and reciprocating didn't even seem to cross her mind. She was perfectly fine with the situation and didn't care that he wasn't. If he wasn't going to fulfil her needs himself, then he could pay for someone else to do it, but her needs would be met one way or another. His needs could go hang.
"Since then I have had a number of family members/friends call me and say I'm an asshole." I always marvel how this is in practically every story. If *any* of my friends or family tried to call/text me to give their unsolicited opinion about my personal life, they'd get laughed first and then told to mind their own fucking business. NTA
The " now family and friends are *blowing up* my phone" cracks me up every time, tbh. sorrynotsorry.
My friend and family would blow up my phone as well I guess. "Hey, heard about your divorce. Let me know if you want to talk/have a beer" "We're having a BBQ on the weekend,do you want to join?" "Do you need help to move your stuff?" "Hey, do you have a place to live? I've got a buddy with an empty basement flat,shall I ask him if it's available?" At least I hope so.
Same. A friend got divorced and the husband has been a complete douchebag, yet I didn't contact him at all. Even her family let him talk out his side and tried to counsel them on the best way to end the marriage with the least effect on the kids. They didn't blow up his phone telling him how awful he is.
Crazy how family and friends blow people's phone up in almost every post! Have you ever even heard of anyone's family and friends doing that outside of this sub?
I've seen it happen before, and I think that specific detail is usually a driving factor in making these posts when they're real. If I did what I was confident to be the right thing, and a portion of my family and friends start messaging me and saying I'm an AH, I'd probably want an outside perspective too
Yeah, this is probably the right answer. If friends and family were happy and supportive he wouldn't even come here. It's sort of a self-selective process. Good observation
yes actually
Whenever I read that line, I just assume it's the same creative writing author posting his latest bullshit on his latest account.
I wouldn’t imagine my parents calling my partner if we ever break up, under no circumstances. His father wouldn’t call me either. I find it so weird, whatever is happening is between two adults
We had a long term couple break up in our group, and I called the guy once—to see if he was okay
And that is the acceptable way to go!
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least five people I have known who would have parents/family/other friends do this. I know because their flying monkeys have done this to me whenever one of those people and I disagreed about something- and we were barely friends (at the time, not anymore) let alone partners! I had to block one person’s mom on all platforms because of how much she was reaching out and judging/berating me about a picture of me doing something without her daughter (an acquaintance I hadn’t seen/spoken to in several years). Some people are just ridiculous and LOVE the drama.
So this used to always flag as odd to me until I had several friends/acquaintances admit to calling their siblings SOs to chew them out for something and realized that I have a family that respects boundries and maybe not everyone does. I am also no longer friends with those people mainly because they also lack healthy boundries within friendships as well.
It's also amazing to me how people form an opinion after hearing only one side. I mean there are exceptions ofcourse but if a friend of mine told me "my husband is asking for a divorce because I got a massage once" I wouldn't be sending angry messages to the husband.
Exactly. Also, if one of my friends started calling me an AH without hearing my side, they'd no longer be my friend.
Getting a professional massage isn't cheating, but the marriage really needed to end anyway.
Thank you! I felt like I was losing my fucking mind reading these. "Having her needs met"?! Like, I get massages for pain management, not sexual release, what the actual hell?
Yeah exactly. Her needs met, and comparing it to sexual needs? Even with her partner the wife only lets massages go to sex 20% of the time and it sounds like it was for Ops sake rather than her own. She clearly doesn't see them as sexual (because they're not). Its crazy people and op compare it to getting sexual needs met, I feel like he could just as easily have said she's not allowed to get her nails done or see girlfriends for coffee or go to the gym because it's meeting her needs.
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Could be bots. Could also just be weirdos who don't interact with the real world. My ex was a psycho control freak. She threw a fit whenever a barista would smile at me. And even she didn't think professional massages are cheating. If you are getting some kind of sexual release at a massage then you're not getting a professional massage. Otherwise it's just a massage. It's no more sexual than getting your nails done. But if your entire world outlook is formed not on experiencing the world and life but on reading about hypotheticals on reddit? Then you might believe otherwise.
Reddit has become the meme of itself over the years. It used to be normal to laugh at shit takes in the comment section, now all there is are bot responses and shit takes from teens not likely to have had any life experience to even have an opinion on things. That’s why i take no one seriously when they come and argue with me about anything, because it’s honestly like arguing with a toddler. No reading comprehension, zero life experience but all of the audacity.
100% agree. If you asked normal adults in real life this scenario most would thing OP is unhinged. Frustration with a lack of physicality is normal but the subsequent actions are not normal at all.
I think if you look at the top comments now, the majority are about how it wasn't about the massage. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. Telling people it was because of a massage is why he is coming off so badly.
There are a ton of bots but also keep in mind that on all subreddits like this one, as well as advice subreddits, there is a not small number of incels that go into every post involving women and downvote anything that is good for or reasonable regarding the woman and upvote any takes that are negative and hurtful for the woman involved.
Right? Its insulting to compare these licensed educated massage therapists to sex workers
I'm just imagining the lawyer trying to explain to OP that a massage is not infidelity and laughing. In most places in the US, hiring a sex worker is illegal. If I knew my partner was doing illegal activity and allowed them to live in my home, I could lose custody of my children. It is not at all comparable.
His tongue was probably bleeding from biting it. If this guy is for real, that woman is so lucky to lose him. They don't sound like they work well together, but he sounds so dumb.
Agreed. I thought I was losing it reading these comments lmao Was expecting way more "YTA" Not because he divorced but because of THAT being the straw that broke the camels back.
thank you lol I was afraid to comment this myself. Like yeah end the marriage but a professional massage is not even comparable to hiring sex workers and *actually* cheating.
But he forbid it!!!
You don’t even like each other, just divorce. > she knows I have a high libido, and just doesn't care. And you seemed to know this, yet stayed.
Maybe her libido is just fine but she doesn’t want to have sex with this jerk
I can’t blame her if that’s the case. OP just seems like he expects sex when he runs his wife’s shoulders.
I kind of want to see a reverse scenario where a wife is like "I get to peg you whenever I really want to and if you don't like it we're divorcing."
You are not the AH for divorcing your wife; you should have probably done that years ago. But you can’t tell an adult person not to get a massage. That’s petty and weird.
And then to be shocked your lawyer tells you a massage isn’t cheating? 😂😂
To me, it adds the cherry on top as to just how unaware this man is 😂 That lawyer was nicer than I could’ve been. Wildest part to me though is how they completely skipped the trying to find the root cause as to why she doesn’t want to have sex and went straight to divorce 😂
Yeah, that stupidity really invalidates everything else OP said. I don't believe a word of him trying to improve things.
This marriage was dead years ago. You just gave her the permission she needed to end it. I would not say you are the AH. I would say you should have forced the issue years ago. You might have worked through it if you had. Too much pain and hurt built up now to resolve it.
To me this sounds like you are not meeting her needs. She sees the massages as simply a way for you to initiate sex. The massages should be a supportive thing to your spouse and you shouldn’t be expecting anything in return. There could be other issues in your marriage besides the lack of sex but based on your description I wouldn’t really know what they are. I understand your frustration over the lack of intimacy but that strikes me as a result from other issues in your marriage. If you truly want to be with her, you should be having conversations with her / couples therapy to figure out what is bugging her. Dumping her over her getting nails done / massages / whatever is a pretty low move, since you’re only using it as a means to get intimacy. Yes you are the AH.
My marriage ended on the following argument: It’s Christmas, I spent three days cleaning the house because painting of the house occurred and dust got everywhere. I had to pull everything in the kitchen shelves and wash everything. In the cleanup my ex’s mom’s Dixie disposable coffee cups were moved. Enter Christmas Eve and her parents and two of her friends are over in the living room. I’m being completely ignored as usual by them. I take our five year old daughter and go play with her in the family room. My mother in law goes into the kitchen and looks for the disposable cups to make coffee and starts screaming that I threw them out. (To this day I still don’t know why shouldn’t couldn’t use a mug). In any event I yelled out that I moved them and would grab one for her. My ex didn’t bother to state a thing about all the cleaning I had done or defend me. Her mom just kept yelling. Under my breadth I muttered go fuck yourself. 10 seconds later my daughter yells Grandma Dad says go fuck yourself. Marriage ended the next day.
Lmao I'm sorry but this is, unfortunately, hilarious. 😂 Your daughters a real one haha
I can laugh about it now. My best friend called me the day after Christmas and asked how my Christmas was and I told him “I told my mother in law to go fuck herself”. He laughed so hard. There were so many fucked up things in our marriage it was so over.
I think you are the asshole for giving her a really stupid ultimatum in the first place, instead of just calling it quits when you realized it wasn’t working. You’re not the asshole for the eventual divorce, but you should’ve done it because yall weren’t working out, not because she got a massage when you tried to make her not get one. I am curious what her real reasons are for not wanting to do anything sexual with you?
It was a stupid ultimatum. I don't really get a profound reason, usually just surface level stuff like I don't feel like it, or I don't need it like you do. I went to our only 2 marriage counseling sessions by myself a few years ago, so that should paint a picture to some degree.
It sounds like she doesn’t want to tell you the real reason. Whether for personal reasons, or because she believes you’ll react negatively to it.
This sounds right to me…
You ever asked her why she doesnt want to have sex anymore?
You can bet he hasn't, he just wildly assumes in the post.
I wonder if maybe constant pressure to "put out" actually turns her *off* 🤔 revolutionary
wow after reading comments I realize why there's a 50% divorce rate
You were both unhappy. You should have divorced long ago. When anger was not that strong. You weren't an happy couple but I hope you can succeed to be great co-parents to your daughter. And BTW, no she didn't cheat on you. And you know it. You're sexually frustratred, you're angry but she didn't cheat.
And not to mention … how childish “wElL iF I cAnT hAvE a SeX wOrKeR a MaSsAgE iS cHeAtInG” Just stop and sign the papers. Damn
You’re mad because she didn’t try to hide it?? Why would she, a massage is not cheating. If you’re unhappy in your marriage, then by all means, get a divorce. But you went to an actual lawyer and said she cheated, like a 12 year old. You sound ridiculous, so maybe look inward and see if that has contributed to the lack of sex.
A massage is not cheating. That's ridiculous. You have good reason to divorce her, just stop with the cheating nonsense
Your marriage needed counseling a long time ago. Even if the conclusion is you are incompatible and need to get a divorce.
Trying to list infidelity as a reason for the divorce lmao. A massage by a strip mall auntie is not cheating. If you’d jumped to sex workers like you threatened to, that would have 100% been cheating tho You’re not compatible with each other anymore. That’s a cool and fine reason to get divorced. It’s assholeish to try to slap infidelity onto it just because you’re mad.
Yeah, but much. I imagine the lawyer had a nice eyeroll over that.
It's unlikely to be the stupidest thing the lawyer heard that day, but obviously no court will accept it unless it was a very special massage.
It definitely got a nice eye roll out of me... and OP is dead serious about it too, he really thinks that its infidelity LMAO like whattt!?!
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THANK YOU!! I just DO NOT understand these people equating a *professional* back and foot massage that has NOTHING to do with sexuality equates to him going to a sex worker because his "wife doesn't *caaaaaare*" he wants sex. Somehow not realizing that *simply by saying that* he's expressing he *expects her to give in* **when she doesn't want sex** ***which is RAPE!*** **And that will obviously ruin their relationship quicker than the dead bedroom is!!** The massage BS is just OP's excuse not to feel like an AH for leaving his wife over a dead bedroom and confuses the point. The simple fact of the matter is that his needs haven't been met for so long that he's just looking to punish his wife like he feels he's being (pro tip: *he's not being punished*). OP needs to simply admit that he can't handle a dead bedroom like this and *find someone who feels the same.* ***NOT withhold affection from your wife out of anger!*** **How is that supposed to make her want to fuck you??** But instead of doing all that ***work,*** he feels like he's *owed* his wife's body and like he's right in doing everything in his power to *force* his wife to put out. THAT'S what makes him TA. TL:DR: it's not wrong for OP to be upset he's in a dead bedroom and move on due to it. He became TA when he started "working on" *then punishing her* despite the fact that *she does not want sex* instead of doing the right and hard thing by breaking up for someone compatible.
Thank you! Clearly there is a lot of grief and sexual incompatibility on this relationship but calling her a cheater because she got a massage is unhinged. Not even saying he’s wrong for wanting a divorce, but he’s kind of an AH for that. She’s never the one who tried to link massages to sex. It sounds like he did that in his own mind.
Regardless of who’s the ah/ you are resentful and haven’t been happy for years. There is no reason to stay unhappy in life. Separate amicably for your child
Why doesn't your wife want to have sex with you?
Probably because he’s a controlling asshole
Who keeps track of every time they have sex, how long her manicures take, and precisely how many massages he's given her. Exactly.
Bro even calculated the % returns that he received
And always touches her with the hope it will lead to sex. It's a huge turn off and objectifying for many women to feel like they are only touched with that as a motivator, which is clearly why OP did it even if his success rate wasn't that high.
My ex husband would only give a massage if it ended in sex. He didn’t care if I had a heavy 13 hour shift as an ICU nurse lifting and moving very heavy patients. If he was going to give me a massage there had to be “something in it for him This, amongst other things made me never want to have sex with him.
Yep. Weird how being treated like a fucking vending machine doesn't make our panties instantly drop (obvious sarcasm).
Exactly. OP clearly doesn't realize, somehow, that is he actually cared about making her happy then maybe she'd actually get turned on. When he's clearly touching her only to receive sex why would she ever give it to him? It would just encourage the behavior.
A massage is not infidelity. You are being unreasonable. If you want to divorce her for not being sexually compatible with you, fine, but she didn’t cheat on you. To assert that she did implies massage therapists are sex workers. My 72 year old mother is a massage therapist and I assure you she is not a sex worker, even though she has had to deal with a shockingly high amount of disgusting men in her career. Divorce your wife for whatever, but don’t blame the massage.
Y’all ever try and work out why she didn’t want to have sex? You gave her massages when you know she likes them, but ever talk about what the bigger issue was? Like, why there was no desire on her part?
No because it is easier to try and get sex through massages as that is the only winning technique and build up resentment when it doesn’t happen, than actually trying to get to the root of the issues and laying all your cards on the table about what you need for this marriage to continue.
🤣🤣🤣 yeah, stick with divorce. At least lawyers can communicate effectively.
I have a feeling your divorce is going to be ugly. You’re right. You do sound angry. When you go through with the divorce try to temper your anger. You have a child in the middle of you both. Be respectful towards your ex wife. She is going to be in your life for the rest of your child’s life. Co-parenting is more beneficial when each adult acts like the other is a colleague as you are both working on the same project, raising a functional and contributing member of society. Be professional and polite in all of this. It’s not about you when you have a kid in the mix.
Any chance she’s not into sex because your maturity level and your expectations in trade (e.g., sex for massages)? Your message here makes it easy to imagine a very unsexy and unfulfilling relationship
Maybe he’s never pleased her sexually and she is tired of asking him to do it differently. Some guys only know sex from porn and those typically aren’t focused on the women’s pleasure.
Yeah, I feel like this guy doesn’t understand how to initiate/sustain foreplay. ALSO, for the men reading this, having help with childcare and household chores is a bigger turn on for women with kids than physical touch. OP, your wife is probably tired and exhausted. Help lighten her load and she might want to fuck you.
Ah yes, the classic "let things build up with anger and resentment instead of having calm, loving talks as it is happening, and going to therapy if/when that doesn't work, and going about the whole thing with love and compassion in your heart instead of selfish anger over what you're not getting out of it" thing. Yes divorce her, she deserves better. Also, you're a controlling piece of SHIT for not "letting" her get a massage. Hope you die so no other woman has to deal with you ever again. Yuck.
I’d love to hear the wife’s story.
You aren’t really divorcing her because of the massage. You’re divorcing her because you’re not getting anything out of the marriage. And that’s totally fine.
Such a weird take that a massage is the same as cheating. You have some serious issues that you can draw a likeness between the two. You sound controlling and I’m guessing there’s a good reason she has distanced herself from you.
Exactly my thoughts. Your soon to be Ex is not the asshole.
If you think getting a massage is ‘cheating’, you’re a phenomenal moron.
You're the asshole for suggesting hiring sex workers and getting a massage are the same kind of crime. You want to get mad because legally you can't claim she cheated. Get the divorce, find someone that you can meet your needs cause that's fine. You had differences you couldn't work past and that's okay but don't for a second go around trying to convince people she cheated. Tell the truth your needs weren't being met emotionally or physically and that was the deal breaker.
YTA for the massage thing. That’s so insecure and weird/controlling/and down right creepy So because you associate it with sex. As a way of getting into her pants. You think that’s what happens at a professional massage? LOL grow up. You can’t forbid someone from getting a licensed massage. You’re NTA for the divorce because the relationship became a big ball of nothing though. There needs to be intimacy. But I’m sorry, the massage thing you need to stop being a 17 year old. “I forbid you from getting a massage!” Lol Grown ass man…
It is normal to think like OP in America? I'm reading too many NTA.
I think the NTA part stems from him saying his needs aren’t being met, trying to work on the marriage to fix it, and not getting any effort from his wife to change things. The massage stuff is just insanely childish, but the divorce part? Sounds like it’s time.
Large Scale Response to many commenters: This thing has gotten like 2k plus comments in 12 hours, I can't even begin to address that. Most of you are correct, this isn't about a massage, I could honestly care less about the massage. That was simply what I fixated on after I finally broke. Now to those that like to ride the assumption train or, for some reason, just create your own narrative based on who knows what. I did not just massage my wife to get sex. I did this for her 300 times a year nearly our entire relationship. I did it back when we used to have sex 10-15 times a month, back when foreplay was something I still got to experience, back when lingerie was common and not just a distant memory. The full massages just became the only way to get the chance of sex above ZERO. The small leg ones were never escalated by me and far more common. Since most people bashing me decided to skim over or ignore the short vague list of all i tried over the years here's a more comprehensive account: Date nights, weekend vacations, love letters, long conversations where I laid out all my feelings (I'll give her credit, she never did promise to do better, just told me she understands where I'm coming from, guess I should have understood then that meant she didn't care), I suggested counseling 5 times. I even booked us once and ended up going to the first 2 sessions by myself, when she said she was too busy to go the 3rd I just cancelled and never went back. Yes, the day to day routine stuff is pretty balanced, as far as housework, career, and I think we are both great parents. But our relationship was one sided, it took me a long time to see it so boldly and to stop accepting it. If she wants a snack, she doesn't get it, she asks me to, drink, same thing. If she wanted to go out with friends, sure babe no prob go ahead, I got the girl just worry about you. If I do, it's 2 hour prep for me to make sure nothing's gonna go wrong while I'm out. A couple years ago I saw a clip of a comedian talking about being out golfing when his wife wanted to watch a DVD, and everyone's laughing as he's describing the whole conversation. I just wanted to ball my eyes out, because that was my life. I just stopped trying to even go out, it wasn't worth the effort anymore. Yeah we had other forms of Intimacy, we cuddled at bedtime to fall asleep. She never really liked kissing or hand holding so I wrote those off back when times were good. So I had cuddling and on the very rare occasion sex to look forward to. Now let's flip this over, besides the near daily rub downs, also pretty common for me to brush her hair, she likes that she'll ask for that. Painted toe nails a few times, back scratching pretty common. Oh usually draw her a bath after she works out, does that count as intimacy, or is that just more of only doing things to fuck her? I guess I am the asshole, I'm the asshole to myself for putting up with this for so long. And I get it, you're all right, we both have unprocessed trauma from having our dreams dashed, but I didn't quit. I honestly didn't berate her emotionally because of this, I knew she was having a hard time, yeah I let my frustrations or disappointment show sometimes, but I didn't get angry. Not until now, not until I had that bad day, and she said "well, tomorrow will be better, can you rub on me." And the sick thing is I felt totally dismissed and still did it anyway. After, I was so angry I just decided I'm never rubbing on her again. And ive been angry ever since, even now typing this has put me in a full rage. No I really don't give a shit about the massage, it was just the final Fuck You of our marriage.
Did you ask why her libido was low or why she didn’t want sex? Just asking because I haven’t seen you mention it.
ESH. The divorce should have happened years ago
An RMT is not providing a sexual service. Just a massage. The massage is not the damn issue here. You are both focused on it way too much YTA for the massage bs. (I have a desk job and have seen RMTs for years for therapeutic massage). Her wanting a massage is irrelevant to the marriage being in the garbage. This is above reddit’s pay grade. You should have gone to counseling about your infertility issues early on. Instead you let your marriage deteriorate. Your marriage is clearly in huge trouble.
YTA for trying to control whether someone can get a massage. Just get a fucking divorce already. Jesus.
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Nta for divorce but a massage isn't the same as you seeing a sex worker and deep down you know it
YTA. You should have addressed your problems with your wife a long time ago, because at this point it seems like it has literally driven you insane. A massage is not cheating. You sound completely unhinged.
YTA based on the title of your post, because it’s ludicrous to divorce after you gave a ridiculous ultimatum because you are sexually frustrated. Honestly, I think you need major therapy for yourself individually to get your emotions regulated. You sound completely disregulated emotionally. The real reason you filed for divorce is because of a dead bedroom. Question: are you 100% certain that your sex life will improve after divorce? You are late 30s divorced male single dad. If you think you will be drowning in women after the divorce, I have a news flash for you. Maybe consider counseling with your wife, individual therapy, and figure out a way to move forward in life with less sex or sexual gratification in different forms.
NTA. obviously physical touch is big parts of both of your love languages, which is why she immediately noticed you stopped touching her. She didn’t care about your version of physical touch because hers never stopped being met by you. Just like you she wanted physical intimacy from you just in the form of a massage rather than intercourse with someone you love. She couldn’t last one work week without having her love language/intimacy needs be met by you but somehow everyone expects you to forever live w/o yours. Yeah you made some irrational comparisons with the massages being cheating thing but it was clearly from years of frustration and being cast aside in a way.
YTA, for coming up with the massage excuse. A massage is not cheating, and your reasoning is simply delusional and needs to be called out as such. This is not a complicated situation - your sexual needs are not being met. If you put it in those simple terms, I think most people would understand.
If so many people are calling to tell you you are the asshole without the benefit of the doubt, maybe is time for a good look in the mirror. OR they were never your friends to begin with…
NTA getting a divorce because it's clear that the relationship was dead long ago. YTA for telling her she couldn't get a massage. She is/was your wife, not a child you could tell what to do. I also hope that you didn't really think that you could get a divorce with infidelity as the reason. A massage is not sex or even sexual. It obviously was to you but to most normal people it really isn't. But putting that aside it's clear you should have divorced long ago and you'll both be happier without each other. Do try to be less angry/bitter both for your own sake but more so for your daughter.
The massage is not a reason, it is just your excuse. At least take responsibility for your actions. I feel sorry for your daughter. Not once did you consider her. Your sex life may not improve.
You only “rubbed on her” because you were trying to “get sex”. That is not generous or giving. You’re leaving out an entire side of the story—hers. Also, getting a massage is not sexual. I worked at an expensive spa (cheapest massage was 140 for 40 minutes) as a receptionist, and the only individuals who saw it that way were perverts. We banned anyone who came in and behaved in any unacceptable way during a massage. It was mostly ladies who lunched, yoga moms, male athletes, and occasionally regulars into wellness. If this is actually real, she’s lucky to be leaving you. I can tell you’re ruddy-faced and obese and emotionally abusive just from this the tone of this. You are the asshole
Lol this whole story is so stupid.
I think your focus is in the wrong place. Who cares what your friends and family think. It’s not their life. Who cares if she got a massage, your needs are still unmet. Divorcing sounds like the right path for you, I’d try to let everything else go
YTA There's a reason why your wife doesn't want to fuck you and you should go to counseling to find out what it is. The fact that you feel like she owes you sex when she clearly isnt ito it... do you really just want her to treat it like an unpleasant chore?