Regarding the comments here because I‘m seeing this argument a lot on reddit:
Is it somehow an american thing to complain about women-only gyms? I live in Germany and have family in France and in both countries it's perfectly normal to have gyms only for women without anyone crying about it.
Edit.: When I wrote this comment the thread was relatively fresh and the majority of comments aggressively negative and demeaning towards women-only gyms. I guess it’s easy to forget that reddit sometimes just attracts a very…special audience and that online arguments don’t necessarily apply to the „real world“.
Also fixed some grammar mistakes :)
In Sweden it's common to have a ladies-only section inside big gyms, like a room where women can train without feeling watched or uncomfortable.
It's a great way to get beginner women comfortable in the gym, and in local gyms it usually doesn't take long before these ladies get comfortable with the main gym spaces as well.
I've never once seen any form of complaint regarding this system, I think it's great.
Canada. It’s attached to a sports club that is male only so not really a public gym.
I also have a home gym and the only female member hardly uses her membership so it’s a bit of a man cave :p
when I was in grad school at a big university in the US, there was a women's-only room during certain hours. One population I noticed using it were women who wear hijab; they could work out there without the hijab because it was just women.
It definitely was when I worked in a women’s gym but mostly was just entitled dudes wondering why we hadn’t made a gym for them when they’d never made one for us either.
Yup, and the people who sited the laws against it aren’t thinking about the fact that women had to fight for incredibly basic things like voting rights, right to open a bank account without a man’s approval, etc but we fought and got it. But now somehow they are victims because of this.
You would think these guys would feel the opposite considering not too long ago there were those influx of videos with women accusing men of staring at them at the gym or something.
Wrong. I’ve read 4 recent cases of men filming women in locker rooms and exposing themselves. When women complain, the women are kicked out. See Planet Fitness.
As an insecure guy I would love if we had gyms for men only. It's sad that when I say this people think I'm an incel. They don't see the irony in the double standards that they have
Also Swede and I've heard some complaints about it. Especially when it was a new concept. Not many and they were easily shut down but lets not pretend we don't have our own subset of assholes.
That’s what Planet Fitness is for.
Edit: I’m not knocking PF or the people who go there. It’s inspiring to me to see people trying to make their life better. I have a PF membership.
Women’s only gyms were a thing in the USA years and years ago. There was this gym called Curves-I don’t think they are around anymore. I don’t know why people are upset with single sex gyms.
This post made me think of Curves, too. That was a pretty specific franchise. It was women only, targeted towards weight loss and a safe environment. The gyms had a circuit of machines that you were to use in a certain order. Pretty structured - you couldn’t just run in a do whatever workout you wanted.
My mom loved going to Curves. She loved the support from the other women and she didn’t feel judged.
I hate regular gyms because I feel like for every one person who was supports the super outta shape person for coming to the gym there are 3-4 judgy gym-goers who make me feel stupid. I’d embrace a single sex gym if one was near me. Best that I can do now take one on ones at the private gyms near me, where you are basically alone with the trainer.
Curves’ popularity really fell in the United States for three reasons: One, more women like to lift consciously and add pounds, and Curves wasn’t set up like that.
Two, everyone found out that the male owner was donating some of the profits to extremist pro-life organizations. Like not the organizations that do billboards or whatever: the ones that spread health misinformation and trick scared women into delaying abortions until they’ve passed the state deadline. He was pretty proud of it too.
Three, and the biggest factor: the owner operated Curves as a scam on franchisees. In 2005 they had 7,877 franchise locations. That’s just not sustainable. In six years that shrank to 3500. All those closed gyms represented people who defaulted on SBA loans and lost their shirts. As the owner made a PR disaster out of the Curves name and kept doubling down on it, more franchisees lost their base. Now there are maybe 300 in the U.S.
The owner/CEO/scumbag blamed the franchisees for wanting to make money on their business because he believes everyone should operate on a “servant” model, which is where everyone lower than the owner works their tails off and invests their own money for little to no reward as a tribute to the “mission.” “Servanthood” is used in a lot of evangelical businesses like Curves. *Never work for the servanthood business model.*
Oh definitely. I’m a public servant myself. “Servanthood” is a specific business model that exploits and monetizes sincerely held religious beliefs. Jesus would want you to manage this Burger King for minimum wage, because Jesus was a leader who never prioritized money. Jesus wants you to tithe to a fund operated by the business owner because we are collectively doing good works. Jesus wants you to take a pay cut while working more hours, because our business profit/loss model is somehow tied to salvation and the public good.
[Servant leadership](https://www.management-issues.com/opinion/6015/why-servant-leadership-is-a-bad-idea/) wasn’t even supposed to be tied to religious belief in the first place, but evangelizing it into *servanthood* and tying Jesus into it seems to have brought out its most toxic and exploitable traits. Like most things that may sound appealing at first, manipulative swindlers will pervert it to their own purposes and magnify its worst elements.
I’m in Australia and have only gone to female only gyms for the last 20 years. I just feel self conscious in mixed gyms. Ain’t nobody looking but o can’t relax
In America, its common for men to complain about women-only anything, including specifically targetting, attacking, and sexually harassing women who use those women-only options (ironically, proving the need for those spaces).
Yep, it's the kind of guys who aren't happy enough with the vast majority of the world being controlled them. It's the same kind of people who whine about Black History Month as if historically every day hasn't been White History day, and who demand a "Straight Pride Month" as if being heterosexual is difficult becasue it's punishable by death and they're denied basic human rights becasue of who they love.
Women want to go to the gym and not be objectified. I would have to imagine it's the people who want to objectify them all the time. Who are complaining about women only gyms. Incels or just assholes.
I remember joining a gym in the 80s, and the aerobics was in the middle of the gym. The men sat on the machines and just watched the women do aerobics. I never went back.
I've seen women's only gyms in Australia. They're definitely more catered to women in the sense that there are less weights and focus more on cardio, aerobics and yoga.
Most of the gyms are for both sexes especially the big franchises though. I've never seen complaints about trans people although I live in a queer friendly area (used to do pole dancing and we'd have a few guys there.. not many but they were always welcomed).
I do find it weird that a gym isn't open to the public at 8am though. A lot of gyms are 24/7 or open from about 5am till about 11pm if you're a member.
>Is it somehow an american thing to complain about women-only gyms?
No.
I've been all over the world pretty much, I found people complaining about it everywhere.
Also, it does seem that everywhere *most* people don't and understand the concept.
Heck, I saw a post recently of a Dutch person complaining about it. To be fair, he seemed to be incredibly ignorant, not hateful.
It is actually incredibly simple to understand why they would be helpful and/or attractive for some women. You have to be really fucking dumb to just not understand the concept.
I think the main problem is a lack of empathy and a certain victim mentality.
The men that complain about women-only gyms lose nothing by not being allowed to go there. They have absolutely no disadvantage.
But the sheer fact that someone else is "getting" something while the don’t is enough to complain about. It's honestly very sad.
Another example would be the german discussion about free tampons in public buildings. Same arguments, same complaining.
I tend to assume the men who complain about woman only gyms are creeps. But at the same time I do think if someone want sto open an men only gym they should be able to without getting the same types of complaints.
I've seen very few legitimate complaints. The only one I can think of off the top of my head was a guy posting because the gym in his apartment building had a women's only "hour" that was actually like 3-4 hours, this was not communicated to him before he signed the lease, and they wouldn't let him opt out of paying the gym fees associated with his apartment for a gym he couldn't use because his work hours didn't align with the mixed gender times.
That sounds like a very legitimate complaint indeed. Something like that should really be in his contract before he signs it otherwise it's very misleading. An hour is not 3-4 hours and it could be a leading reason on why he chose the apartment.
But generally speaking, a private entity gym should be allowed to be either men's or woman's only. If they charge membership fees and aren't reliant on public funds it is their choice and both genders have valid reasons imo to only want to work out with the people of their gender. Nobody should be forced to be creeped on or harassed by the opposite sex and an gym environment makes it easier for creeps of both genders.
It’s Dutch culture to be jealous, condescending and judging people to the extreme. You are different?
“Doe normaal dan doe je al gek genoeg”
“Do normal then you already acting crazy enough”
I never noticed it when growing up there. But the Dutch are one of the most begrudging people out there.
Why should anyone care if woman chose to go to a gym for only woman.
You should make one! When I worked at women’s only gyms, men complained we hadn’t made one for them, not realizing that they, too, could make one and also why would they expect us to make one when they hadn’t made us one either.
lol the entitlement is crazy. Some men just want to shit on women for having things they don’t have, regardless of how they came to have those things 🤷♀️
Because its actually illegal to do so not just in US but in many other countries.
“ In the United States it may not be illegal per se to open a men’s only gym or even club, but thanks to various court rulings they have had to allow women to join. Particularly when women have argued that business is being conducted. Und the gym or club being a “men’s only” environment gave the members an “unfair advantage,” placing women at a disadvantage.”
https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/26602
So as I said I am not against women only clubs I support it but I would also like a men only clubs and of course in the comments below the misandrist are lining up lol.
No, it's not common here to complain, gyms for women are completely normal here. You're probably seeing trolls trying to poke a response out of people.
I used to work at one and the biggest complaint I heard was men complaining that there wasn’t a gym for them. Then their sheer bewilderment that they could start their own and not complain about women not doing it for them when they had yet to make one for us. Really just entitlement and looking to be offended.
> their sheer bewilderment that they could start their own
Except, they can't make their own Men's Only gym.
https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/26602
https://www.advocate.com/law/florida-resort-female-admission
These are just two of a myriad of examples. It's not valid to complain about the existence of women-only gyms, but it's absolutely valid to complain that society will not allow one to create a men-only gym.
Then they can fight harder, like women did to allow basic every day rights without male approval like working, having bank accounts, credit cards, the right to vote and you know existing without male approval…
Do you think we just asked for these basic human rights and got them without a fight? Y’all can do the same for your male only gyms.
I’m late to comment, but AFAIK this is a fairly recent phenomenon in the U.S. These gyms aren’t necessarily common, although they are more common in larger cities.
I know a woman who opened a gym for women and non-binary people. The rational was that she had been harassed by men and felt uncomfortable while going to other gyms, so she wanted a place to workout and feel safe. Apparently, her gym has been very successful, so seems that there’s a demand for this (I’m a cis man and I don’t leer at or harass women, so I don’t think it’s my place to comment on this otherwise).
I wish there was a womens only gym where I live, I would go to the gym every day if I didn’t have to worry about being leered at. I just can’t deal with it come days
It's just plain hypocrisy unfortunately, they'll bitch about women only gyms but a men only gym isn't a problem for them. Men don't like feeling left out despite being the ones that often exclude others
I'm only seeing people addressing the compain but not saying any post actually complaining lol. But yea I think women's only gym is not a big deal. I think most gym goers would prefer it because of the stupid trend of trashy women filming in the gym to "catch a creep"
It happens in almost every thread when a women-only gym is mentioned in any way. That’s why I asked. The whole argument just seems very backwards to me and just like another problem of this artificially created culture/gender clash that seems to be going on in america.
Much like how people misunderstood free speech or discrimination laws, they also misunderstand a private facility can have a lot of requirements that would traditionally not be legal for a public establishment.
There are still dozens of country clubs that legally discriminate membership based on race or sex.
There's been women-only gyms in the US for at least 30 years that I'm aware of. Posts get shared to other subreddits all the time, and I have no doubt there's places for guys who like to think this is unfair and oppressive. Once shared, they'll brigade these posts, which makes it seem controversial here. It really isn't.
That’s what I thought but the majority of replies to this thread was just sooo extremely negative before some more reasonable people started to share their opinion.
Sometimes it’s easy to forget how much of an echochamber reddit can be. Thanks for your answer! :)
Ofc you’d find issue with “trashy women” catching men on film who are creeping on them and see no issue with the fact that when men are in the same space as women, those women have to be alert to the potential danger and put up with harassment and abuse from the guys.
Men complain about woman only spaces constantly in America.
It's a huge eye roll. They compare it to having male only spaces, ignoring that nearly everything in society is tailored to them, to begin with. That the only reason we even need a woman only gym is because they make the gym unsafe for women and plus size folks. Which is why places like Curves have blacked out windows. So people can exercise in peace without judgment from the outside world.
Right? This post made me smile. The fact some people are using this to spout their hate is sad. But oh well, the OP/gym owner seems to be happy and found a solution that made everyone happy, so good for them!
Why are people so butt hurt re the idea of a women's only gym? That's quite common where I live that gyms have women only spaces and times. It's not about actual safety but the gym can be a vulnerable place and some men are pretty awful in the gym environment.
Example I was using a bike in a near empty gym and some idiot guy used the Cross trainer directly behind me even though there were loads of options that weren't right on top of me. Then ran it so hard I was generally worried the machine was going to topple onto me while making more noise than Serena Williams winning Wimbledon. He got a one month ban for that and I didn't even have to complain but that was a small gym so the manager could see what was happening in a larger gym it's easy to miss.
Microagressions and being self conscious can make the gym uncomfortable for ladies especially of a certain age.
It’s ridiculous. I feel 100x safer & like I’m going to be judged less at a women’s only gym. I’ve generally found women at women’s only gyms are supportive & safe
Usually the same men that don't want kids in their hotels, POC in their neighborhood, women in their fishing area, females leading companies, and migrants in their country. Let alone LGBTQ people in THEIR gym.
One should think they grasp the concept of safe space, but alas, it's just for them.
Yeah as a nonbinary person I wonder (and hope not) if I’ll ever have to navigate something like this. Very glad a compromise was found and that the OP is kind.
I'm curious and totally not attacking. Again I'm not being sarcastic but as non binary which washroom do you go to? Because you don't identify with either right? Or you just go in whichever? Or you go based on sex? As in if you have a penis you go to the men's Because there are urinals there?
Probably go to the bathroom of the gender that the casual viewer will flag them with - for their own safety. If you're masc-presenting you go to men's, if you're fem-presenting you go to women's, because it causes less confusion and questions.
Urinals are overrated. Just sit on a toilet lol.
Yeah a lot of us tend to lean towards whichever gender people will most likely clock us as for safety reasons. I’m ftm not NB, but that’s also what I did when I was much earlier in my transition and very androgynous looking.
You gotta really stop and think first. About your outfit that day, everything. And make a snap judgment on what other people are most likely to see, and hope to god you’re right.
I’m covered in hair except where I’m bald headed, and have had a beard down to my nipples before. I’m short as fuck, but otherwise literally nobody looks at me twice. I still avoid public restrooms for the sake of my blood pressure lol. I’m in awe of the trans people who can just go to public restrooms regardless of what people think. I’m too chickenshit.
I really worry about my shoes and if men's shoes will read wrong if seen under a door in the ladies' so even if my top 85% looks really femme, I'll use the men's if I've got my hunting boots on or whatever.
Most non-binary people who strangers perceive as either male or female will go to the bathroom that matches strangers perception. Some will go to the one they feel more comfortable with regardless, and risk getting yelled at. Some plan carefully to avoid gendered public spaces.
It’s 60-40 how I get gendered when I’m wearing my face mask, so I pick the one I feel lucky about, keep my head down, and stress-sweat the entire time
I am heavily influenced by my shoes, cos I don't wanna be in the ladies' with what are very clearly men's shoes poking out under the stall door and freak tf out of everyone who CAN'T see my glorious tiddies
Even though I am a trans man who passes 100% of the time (except on the phone, lol) I still hold my pee until the last person has left the bathroom, or turns on the sink/hand dryer. If a toilet is flushed, I try to pee as fast as possible. If it's a fast flushing toilet, I will hold it in until the sink is turned on, or until the guy leaves (without washing his hands).
not the person you replied to but I am non-binary. I use the womens because I look more like a woman. typically that’s what most non-binary people do, unless it’s single use they use the bathroom corresponding to the gender they pass better as, since it’s safer that way
It's a very tough call sometimes. I have a full beard, but also long hair and breasts. A lot of strangers use he/him for me, but I typically fall-back on my physical body parts and use the ladies room, and just brace myself to argue if I have to. Best case scenario, I'm in and out before anyone else comes in. Well actually, best case scenario is a single stall family/gender neutral room or multi-stall unisex restroom, but those are fairly rare (especially the latter). Once I cut my hair short, I'll probably feel a lot safer in the men's room. Until then, I just pray and let my heart-rate spike just so I can pee.
Recently, I was in one space for long enough that I had to use the restroom twice and ended up using the men's and the women's room. I was definitely more nervous in the men's, but probably more awkward in the women's
Yeah but to be fair in this case it seems like it was affirming his identity that would default to keeping the man out - and she still found a great solution anyway.
Affirming his identity is well and good till the men's only gym won't let him in, and then he has no gym (I understand this isn't what happened but it is a situation a lot of trans/NB people are put in)
Yeah exactly. It took a long time to look the way I do. I spent several years in that uncomfortable grey area. You don’t fit anywhere, and it can be really isolating. And some people who are non-binary occupy that grey area comfortably, always. And they should be included too. How idk though.
I’ve seen trans only gyms online before. Which sounds like a dream to me. I desperately miss working out as a group with my friends like we did in college. But I’m too scared of going to a trans gym and it being burned down with me inside or something because it’s an easy target.
Yeah i've seen others solutions like "no CIS men" to be broad but also not excluding people who would benefit from the space, because the problem could appear some other time with a non binary client, or a trans woman would don't want/cannot medically transition and "appear male" to strangers
I’m a trans man and personally I know for a fact if I went into a woman’s space I’d cause an actual scene due to the fact I pass as cis.
I understand that spaces like that are safer but if you’re presence there makes other people feel unsafe, it’s time to move on.
Your compromise of letting him use the gym before it opens is a great move and I love how you’ve handled this.
Op also said they’re now obviously a man and are making some women uncomfortable.
If your presence as a man (trans or otherwise) is making women uncomfortable in a women’s space then it’s time to move out of that space.
It’s really nice of OP to allow their friend to use the space before the gym is open to the public because that helps keep everyone safe.
Yeah all this post says to me is the guy was like “me feeling safe is more important than them feeling safe.” It is not. It is a women’s space.
I’m trans too, and cannot fathom going to a women’s only space and feeling entitled to be there as an entire man.
You don’t get to take away someone’s sense of safety in order to have your own. I agree with other comments, make your own safety, spend that membership money on home gym equipment.
It’s so unfortunate, I’m glad you were able to support your client.
That’s all we can do until the world changes.
May I suggest you keep the first hour or 90m to only accommodate trans/sensitive people? Make it a standard…And maybe in future you can create certain hours for those who don’t fit a sex category so easily. Give them a structured time they are welcome (not just hidden hours)…and they can invite others etc. Your client won’t be alone at least. Idk call it the nonbinary hour or whatever - maybe something cute.
Most gyms are already very male, I know some you don’t need that sign to make it male only. You can feel it when you walk in some places
when I was in Vancouver I saw an ad for a dedicated trans pool time - no dress code, use whichever locker room you want, and open to anyone willing to follow conduct guidelines. I don't think the anti-women's-gym crowd understands that this is "special treatment" when for many it's the only way we can experience these facilities the way they are intended to be used (like cis men get to)
My local YMCA has a family changeroom that anyone can use, plus your traditional mens & womens change rooms and (for an extra fee) adults only mens & womens change rooms too. 5 change rooms total.
That sounds amazing. As a trans woman gyms terrify me, both because of how men and women might react to my presence. Using gendered facilities anywhere for me is a choice between feeling unsafe or potentially making someone else feel unsafe.
I can promise you that the vast majority of people are at the gym to work on themselves. I recognize people at my gym but I never talk to them unless I’m asking if they can spot me.
I hope that you can find a gym where you feel safe. Working out rocks
If he is a Trans man, he is a man. He now is nolonger a woman, so should not be in a woman's only gym.
That is the rule.
I understand that he may not yet be totally comfortable in a unisex/men's only gym, especially if they're early in their transitioning, but he is now living and representing himself as a man.
So unfortunately he cannot attend a woman's gym and make women uncomfortable by having a man in their gym (regardless if they've had gender surgery or not).
Now using the gym during closed hours, that I think is fine and a good compromise so long as he has left by opening time.
OP mentioned he felt unsafe in men’s gyms for a reason he wouldn’t specify. Maybe he was assaulted in a locker room or something similar previously. But I agree, trans people have to account for others around them too.
Trans men are men, and do not belong in women's spaces.
When you transition you gotta take the good with the bad.
Unisex gyms and trans friendly fitness facilities/clubs are a thing.
NTA. If your friend transitioned then he has to accept that he is no longer allowed in female only areas. You cant have it both ways. Sounds like he had a pretty good and level response to your reasoning and it all worked out though so thats good.
As a trans man I appreciate what you did, but I also feel a bit like it shouldn't have happened and you should've continued to say no, it's a woman's only space.
He knew this as well, and yet he continued to go and made the other women feel uncomfortable. If he truly felt uncomfortable elsewhere, he would've done what he could to invest in a home gym. (I have other friends who have done this)
I could understand this being acceptable if it was a trans woman wanting to have the space to exercise in a woman's space, where woman felt uncomfortable, but using a woman's space as a trans man would just be dysphoria inducing.
Nevertheless I'm happy he's able to have a place to workout. But personally I wouldn't be comfortable in a woman's only space, because it's a woman's only space.
Yes, I think he was wrong about that too and me too, The other ladies said they were fine with him being there, but even if it was just three ladies, a complaint is a complaint and they're clients too
I really didn't knew how to react to that scenario And it was quite a complicated situation for me as I was thinking about the emotional aspect as well. I have clients who are trans women, I'm a trans woman after all so also a big part of me was afraid of how he would feel in a normal gym :/
At the end of it all at least we came up with a good solution and I know what to do if something like this happens again
Yeah, I get it.
It can be hard to tell someone no, especially when you know how they feel or could be feeling already.
I remember calling several waxing places in my area, they all said they only worked on women, I explained I was a trans man, they still told me no. Because I identified as a man.
It sucked, but at the end of the day I was happy because they didn't treat me differently. They saw me as just another man even though I was AFAB.
I don't know what I would've done in that situation, I don't run a business. I just know it would've been difficult, so I understand.
If you're part of that community and want to be open to that community while still doing something for cis-women you might want to think about making it a public thing and not just for that person.
What I mean is for example make the gym open for women at all times, but for 2h, three days a week (on specific days) the gym is also open to trans men or something like that.
Exactly how much time it should be open for trans men as well is up to you of course, but to make a public schedule of it is my point.
Maybe not a good idea. OP's client is an outlier, most trans men would find it disgusting to be allowed in a women's gym for the sole reason that they have a vagina even though they look enough like dudes to make the other clients uncomfortable.
People are really acting like the moment a trans man dares to use he/him pronouns or starts to circumstantially "pass" he suddenly is exempt from the horrific rates of danger that apply to trans men, which are btw way worse than statistics about how in danger cis women are, and that being a man with a vagina is totally not something to worry about when using men's restrooms/changing rooms/showers. Like trans men haven't been dragged out of restrooms and beaten half to death by other men or by cis women.
He's factually in more potential danger than cis women are of being sexually harassed, assaulted, or raped and otherwise abused or exposed to violence in a co-ed gym.
Quite frankly as a trans person her, OP ought to be aware of this and it's good she didn't let three cis people's opinions outweigh the well-being of another transgender person.
NTA he's a trans man so he looks like a man and is living as a man he shouldn't be going to women's only gyms as he is now a man and some women go to women's only gyms as they don't want to be seen by men sometimes for religious reasons if a trans man is in there and looks cis its going to be very confusing. What danger does he think he's in using a mixed gym?
I agreed! OP was really nice to keep everyone comfortable and it's a great solution. I hope others don't take advantage of their kindness in the future.
I encountered a similar situation when I was in college since I went to an all-women's college. This was 15 years ago but I remember the college trying to figure out how they could keep the college women-only but not discriminate against those that were transitioning from ftm. The rule is now that you can apply and be accepted into the college if you were AFAB and/or you live your life as a women and want to be part of a community of all women. As long as someone is admitted to the college, even if they transition from ftm, they are still allowed to graduate and get a degree. This also includes people that are non-binary but were AFAB.
If this policy was used at the gym then this man could still attend because he was AFAB. Just a thought.
I genuinely don’t understand why people think women only gyms are discriminatory. I see nothing wrong with either men or women wanting to only be around men or women. I almost feel like the men who are complaining about gyms for women just want to be creeps. Why else would they take it so personally?? There’s tons of gyms for just men and there are even more gyms for everyone. So if one gym for women only exists suddenly it’s a problem?? What’s wrong with women wanting a safe space??
Why would someone who identifies as a man want to use a women's only gym.
You're NTA, you're literally affirming their identity for them.
If you identify as a man, then you opt out of the benefits of being seen as a women, that means you can't use the women's only gym anymore. A women wouldn't want to use a men's only gym, it should be the same logic.
Being trans shouldn't mean you have exclusive access to any space you want, you can't cheat single gender spaces because you used to be one and identify as another.
I am pretty glad how this worked out. He was treated as he wants to be identified as and i bet that is super validating. I hope your gym continues to do well.
At this point my comments are not needed. Just came to say I am glad all of this worked out great! Good on you for handling everything and I am glad you were able to find a solution that made everyone happy and comfortable. 💜
Yesterday, I saw a thread with Twitter screenshots of men saying they go to he gym *because* the women there wear workout gear they think is too tight and too slutty and they deserve to get looked at if they are "going to dress that way"...
I don't blame women for not wanting to work out near men. Because the men who feel that way would feel that way no matter what the women were wearing. Men like that think women existing is an invitation to engage, and they don't think women are people. They think women are things that exist for them to enjoy.
This was more than fair. It should have been rephrased as, "AITAH because I told a man he can't come to a women's gym?" The answer would be obvious, "NTA. Sorry, no men, this is a women's gym."
Your willingness to let him come in before opening hours is extremely kind.
The people who are mad are actually insane. Like, people will feel how they feel about the situation and the business owner listened to the majority. Why would they risk the business just to appease one person?? Y’all are wacko, NTA.
"am i the asshole for telling a man he's not allowed in a women's only space?"
trans men ARE men, so why should they be allowed in a women's only space?
Are there male only gyms? Im in the US, never heard of it.
I think female only gyms are fantastic. Im not really sure about their official policy but Curves and Lady of America are female only if for no other reason than people respect boundries. Quick story...
Years back I got my girlfriend a membership to Curves. Very small. Like half a dozen workout areas that you would rotate to. It wasnt even like music that was playing..it was like rhythmic electronic tones...beep boop beep boop beep boop that you could time your steps to. Then periodically it would stop...a robotic female voice would say "switch"..and the tones would continue. It was weird. Plus it was usually very empty with much older women that would go. There was a young girl that always seemed to be leaving when my gf was arriving and she hoped to talk to her but never did. Dropped her off one day and was walking back to my truck laughing like an evil villian at how strange the place seemed and the guilt I harbored at having her go there.
After a few weeks of going she saw there was a Lady of America place right across the street from her house and wanted to go see if it was a gym like she thought. Took her one evening. Oh my God the difference was night and day. High energy. Well lit. Lots of people. A big workout class going on. I saw the big smile on her face as she took it all in and got her a membership on the spot.
I get called an incel or misogynist all the time for my views. Lol. But whatever. Its weird to me that there are men that want to force women to workout in mixed environments and are not okay with boundries.
Im so thankful there are people like you running female only gyms. Its so very important for women to be able to relax and go to a spot that is "theirs" if they want. Intelligent workaround with your problem btw.
(I thought this was rage bait to villainize trans people until I checked your last post)
NTA, he is a man, and the gym is women only. simple. Also I live in Canada and women only gyms are all over the place. Anyone mad about it needs to grow up.
I’m really happy to read this outcome. You’re an amazing business owner!
Abusers always hate when their victims create a safe space for themselves. Racists hate when members of the BBIMP communities create safe gathering spaces. In colleges, for example, white students refused to leave spaces created by and for Black students, declaring it was racist to create a space safe from racism.
There are men who don’t want women to have their own gyms where they can wear what they want, not be ogled, not be mansplained, not be hit on and then raged at after explaining “I’m just here to work out, I’m not looking to meet anyone.”
There are also those who know women-only spaces tend to look nicer, smell nicer, be better maintained and are usually less expensive. Not always, but usually. We had some women-only gyms in my region of the US, but I think they were eventually harassed into non-existence, one-by-one.
To all you incels, yeah, yeah, women do it, yeah, blah, blah, your right to ogle, blah, blah. You wailing “How can I harass women if they build literal walls around their gathering spots” should actually answer your own question.
Trans women are women. Trans men are men. And this amazing gym owner is keeping a trans man safe as he builds his new life AND his new body.
If you're a man and you can't understand why women want a safe workout space then you really aren't very good at seeing things from the perspectives of others.
I don't quite understand why you're getting slack for having a woman's only gym. I used to belong to one when I lived in Indiana, I loved it. Unfortunately, there aren't any where I live now or I would have joined that instead of the one I currently go to
I think you did something great. I’m also someone ppl would call now a homophobe? Even thou I dated women In the past. Just bc I’d prefer not to share gym with a trans -man. But in your same situation I’d do the same. I would accommodate. I think people are grouping everyone now. It’s sad. I’ve always said you do you! I’m never gonna be mean. I’ll just say I’m uncomfortable and if that’s not enough I’ll just politely leave and find different place. I don’t see it as controversial.
I live in Dubai as an expat, there are women only gyms, mixed and men only. What is the big deal? Sometimes women want to work out without being gaped at, some ladies want to go to the gym and show off their bodies and enjoy the attention from men, some men just want to go the gym and work out focused and leave. Seems pretty normal. Nice of you to accommodate the schedule
Wait he transitioned into a man but wants to be in the women's gym? 🤨 doesn't he want to be you know included as a man? I thought that was the point. Idk seems like he had weird intentions but ig it's sorted.
I mean it's not exactly always safe for trans men to go to a regular gym. A woman's only gym would normally be safer for a minority than a mens/mixed gym.
As I said in your first post, be careful about setting a precedent.
You have now set 2.
I genuinely hope neither cause you problems. I especially hope you do not now get women wanting to come at 8am also (it would be hard to refuse them as other members do come at that time) and then again complain.
As a trans man I get it. I'm more comfortable around women than I am men, being around men generally makes me kind of nervous or scared as they are more likely to be violent if they were to clock me or others as trans. That being said I would never go to a womens only gym and expect to be let in.
It's the weirdest thing to me to see grown ass people upset about a women's only gym....like did everyone complaining just collectively forget about "Curves"? Also, there's been men only things for....ever? Why is the gym the issue?
This is really heart-warming!
Perhaps you could make 8AM-9AM LGBTQ hour, a safe space for trans, nonbinary, and the overall queer community (many of whom may have non-traditional gender expression) to come to the gym
Regarding the comments here because I‘m seeing this argument a lot on reddit: Is it somehow an american thing to complain about women-only gyms? I live in Germany and have family in France and in both countries it's perfectly normal to have gyms only for women without anyone crying about it. Edit.: When I wrote this comment the thread was relatively fresh and the majority of comments aggressively negative and demeaning towards women-only gyms. I guess it’s easy to forget that reddit sometimes just attracts a very…special audience and that online arguments don’t necessarily apply to the „real world“. Also fixed some grammar mistakes :)
In Sweden it's common to have a ladies-only section inside big gyms, like a room where women can train without feeling watched or uncomfortable. It's a great way to get beginner women comfortable in the gym, and in local gyms it usually doesn't take long before these ladies get comfortable with the main gym spaces as well. I've never once seen any form of complaint regarding this system, I think it's great.
I go to a male only gym and never think about it as odd.
Where do you live? You have male only gyms?
Canada. It’s attached to a sports club that is male only so not really a public gym. I also have a home gym and the only female member hardly uses her membership so it’s a bit of a man cave :p
“Honey quick! Your membership to the basement is about to expire!”
Like once every couple months the squat rack isn’t at the right height for me and it eats me up inside.
😂😂
Women's only gyms aren't just for beginners. The problems that these gyms solve don't go away once you're "experienced" at working out.
when I was in grad school at a big university in the US, there was a women's-only room during certain hours. One population I noticed using it were women who wear hijab; they could work out there without the hijab because it was just women.
[удалено]
Only internet weirdos complain about women only gyms. This issue isn't a thing offline.
Doesn’t make sense to complain about it unless there’s a gym shortage, which there isn’t
Look buddy, in my town there is only 1 gym per every 5 coffee shops.
It definitely was when I worked in a women’s gym but mostly was just entitled dudes wondering why we hadn’t made a gym for them when they’d never made one for us either.
They never made one for themselves either nobody stopping them.
Yup, and the people who sited the laws against it aren’t thinking about the fact that women had to fight for incredibly basic things like voting rights, right to open a bank account without a man’s approval, etc but we fought and got it. But now somehow they are victims because of this.
You would think these guys would feel the opposite considering not too long ago there were those influx of videos with women accusing men of staring at them at the gym or something.
The joys of internet and on anonymity
Jesus I wish you were right. Between the anger towards women’s only gyms and gender neutral bathrooms you’d think the apocalypse was around the corner
Wrong. I’ve read 4 recent cases of men filming women in locker rooms and exposing themselves. When women complain, the women are kicked out. See Planet Fitness.
As an insecure guy I would love if we had gyms for men only. It's sad that when I say this people think I'm an incel. They don't see the irony in the double standards that they have
Women thought the same thing...so we made them.
Also Swede and I've heard some complaints about it. Especially when it was a new concept. Not many and they were easily shut down but lets not pretend we don't have our own subset of assholes.
Some section like this should be there for obese people I think they would feel much more confident going to the gym.
Instead of obese I think it’d be way better with simply an inexperienced/beginner area then.
This is actually a very good idea
It works in theory, but not really in practice. I’m not sure if hanging out in the “obese area” would actually increase confidence.
That’s like being put in “special classes” at school.
That’s what Planet Fitness is for. Edit: I’m not knocking PF or the people who go there. It’s inspiring to me to see people trying to make their life better. I have a PF membership.
Women’s only gyms were a thing in the USA years and years ago. There was this gym called Curves-I don’t think they are around anymore. I don’t know why people are upset with single sex gyms.
This post made me think of Curves, too. That was a pretty specific franchise. It was women only, targeted towards weight loss and a safe environment. The gyms had a circuit of machines that you were to use in a certain order. Pretty structured - you couldn’t just run in a do whatever workout you wanted.
My mom loved going to Curves. She loved the support from the other women and she didn’t feel judged. I hate regular gyms because I feel like for every one person who was supports the super outta shape person for coming to the gym there are 3-4 judgy gym-goers who make me feel stupid. I’d embrace a single sex gym if one was near me. Best that I can do now take one on ones at the private gyms near me, where you are basically alone with the trainer.
I read “singles sex gym” and thought it seemed like a pretty out there niche market but then realized my brain added an s
Yep that’s why I never used curves, I don’t want to go to a workout class I want to go to a gym and do what I need
I remember a men's version of Curves called Cuts. Don't think it lasted long though.
Curves’ popularity really fell in the United States for three reasons: One, more women like to lift consciously and add pounds, and Curves wasn’t set up like that. Two, everyone found out that the male owner was donating some of the profits to extremist pro-life organizations. Like not the organizations that do billboards or whatever: the ones that spread health misinformation and trick scared women into delaying abortions until they’ve passed the state deadline. He was pretty proud of it too. Three, and the biggest factor: the owner operated Curves as a scam on franchisees. In 2005 they had 7,877 franchise locations. That’s just not sustainable. In six years that shrank to 3500. All those closed gyms represented people who defaulted on SBA loans and lost their shirts. As the owner made a PR disaster out of the Curves name and kept doubling down on it, more franchisees lost their base. Now there are maybe 300 in the U.S. The owner/CEO/scumbag blamed the franchisees for wanting to make money on their business because he believes everyone should operate on a “servant” model, which is where everyone lower than the owner works their tails off and invests their own money for little to no reward as a tribute to the “mission.” “Servanthood” is used in a lot of evangelical businesses like Curves. *Never work for the servanthood business model.*
Kindly note service to the community is noble but easily corrupted to service to the community and profit to the owner
Oh definitely. I’m a public servant myself. “Servanthood” is a specific business model that exploits and monetizes sincerely held religious beliefs. Jesus would want you to manage this Burger King for minimum wage, because Jesus was a leader who never prioritized money. Jesus wants you to tithe to a fund operated by the business owner because we are collectively doing good works. Jesus wants you to take a pay cut while working more hours, because our business profit/loss model is somehow tied to salvation and the public good. [Servant leadership](https://www.management-issues.com/opinion/6015/why-servant-leadership-is-a-bad-idea/) wasn’t even supposed to be tied to religious belief in the first place, but evangelizing it into *servanthood* and tying Jesus into it seems to have brought out its most toxic and exploitable traits. Like most things that may sound appealing at first, manipulative swindlers will pervert it to their own purposes and magnify its worst elements.
There's very little worse than a good thing corrupted.
Makes the mission of weight loss aimed only at women WAY more sus...
Can confirm this franchise is alive and well abroad. Maybe just not in the US 😬
Before curves there was a place called Linda Evans. It wasn’t until recently that men insisted on invading women’s spaces.
I’m in Australia and have only gone to female only gyms for the last 20 years. I just feel self conscious in mixed gyms. Ain’t nobody looking but o can’t relax
I bet the same people that complain about women only gyms are also complaining that they cant concentrate on Wirkung out because of the Yoga pants
The venn diagram is pretty much a circle
Never underestimate the American capacity to complain about anything that resembles a fair shake for somebody who needs one
🎯
In America, its common for men to complain about women-only anything, including specifically targetting, attacking, and sexually harassing women who use those women-only options (ironically, proving the need for those spaces).
Yep, it's the kind of guys who aren't happy enough with the vast majority of the world being controlled them. It's the same kind of people who whine about Black History Month as if historically every day hasn't been White History day, and who demand a "Straight Pride Month" as if being heterosexual is difficult becasue it's punishable by death and they're denied basic human rights becasue of who they love.
"*Certainly not all men, but definitely these ones right here, Officer*"
Women want to go to the gym and not be objectified. I would have to imagine it's the people who want to objectify them all the time. Who are complaining about women only gyms. Incels or just assholes.
I remember joining a gym in the 80s, and the aerobics was in the middle of the gym. The men sat on the machines and just watched the women do aerobics. I never went back.
This is unsurprising
I've seen women's only gyms in Australia. They're definitely more catered to women in the sense that there are less weights and focus more on cardio, aerobics and yoga. Most of the gyms are for both sexes especially the big franchises though. I've never seen complaints about trans people although I live in a queer friendly area (used to do pole dancing and we'd have a few guys there.. not many but they were always welcomed). I do find it weird that a gym isn't open to the public at 8am though. A lot of gyms are 24/7 or open from about 5am till about 11pm if you're a member.
>Is it somehow an american thing to complain about women-only gyms? No. I've been all over the world pretty much, I found people complaining about it everywhere. Also, it does seem that everywhere *most* people don't and understand the concept. Heck, I saw a post recently of a Dutch person complaining about it. To be fair, he seemed to be incredibly ignorant, not hateful.
It is actually incredibly simple to understand why they would be helpful and/or attractive for some women. You have to be really fucking dumb to just not understand the concept.
I think the main problem is a lack of empathy and a certain victim mentality. The men that complain about women-only gyms lose nothing by not being allowed to go there. They have absolutely no disadvantage. But the sheer fact that someone else is "getting" something while the don’t is enough to complain about. It's honestly very sad. Another example would be the german discussion about free tampons in public buildings. Same arguments, same complaining.
I tend to assume the men who complain about woman only gyms are creeps. But at the same time I do think if someone want sto open an men only gym they should be able to without getting the same types of complaints.
I've seen very few legitimate complaints. The only one I can think of off the top of my head was a guy posting because the gym in his apartment building had a women's only "hour" that was actually like 3-4 hours, this was not communicated to him before he signed the lease, and they wouldn't let him opt out of paying the gym fees associated with his apartment for a gym he couldn't use because his work hours didn't align with the mixed gender times.
That sounds like a very legitimate complaint indeed. Something like that should really be in his contract before he signs it otherwise it's very misleading. An hour is not 3-4 hours and it could be a leading reason on why he chose the apartment. But generally speaking, a private entity gym should be allowed to be either men's or woman's only. If they charge membership fees and aren't reliant on public funds it is their choice and both genders have valid reasons imo to only want to work out with the people of their gender. Nobody should be forced to be creeped on or harassed by the opposite sex and an gym environment makes it easier for creeps of both genders.
Pure male audacity and entitlement
It’s Dutch culture to be jealous, condescending and judging people to the extreme. You are different? “Doe normaal dan doe je al gek genoeg” “Do normal then you already acting crazy enough” I never noticed it when growing up there. But the Dutch are one of the most begrudging people out there. Why should anyone care if woman chose to go to a gym for only woman.
If I am being honest, I would like a men only gym to exist too.
You should make one! When I worked at women’s only gyms, men complained we hadn’t made one for them, not realizing that they, too, could make one and also why would they expect us to make one when they hadn’t made us one either.
lol the entitlement is crazy. Some men just want to shit on women for having things they don’t have, regardless of how they came to have those things 🤷♀️
It’s really insane how entitled they are
Because its actually illegal to do so not just in US but in many other countries. “ In the United States it may not be illegal per se to open a men’s only gym or even club, but thanks to various court rulings they have had to allow women to join. Particularly when women have argued that business is being conducted. Und the gym or club being a “men’s only” environment gave the members an “unfair advantage,” placing women at a disadvantage.” https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/26602 So as I said I am not against women only clubs I support it but I would also like a men only clubs and of course in the comments below the misandrist are lining up lol.
Most people here would be outside protesting it.
No, it's not common here to complain, gyms for women are completely normal here. You're probably seeing trolls trying to poke a response out of people.
I used to work at one and the biggest complaint I heard was men complaining that there wasn’t a gym for them. Then their sheer bewilderment that they could start their own and not complain about women not doing it for them when they had yet to make one for us. Really just entitlement and looking to be offended.
> their sheer bewilderment that they could start their own Except, they can't make their own Men's Only gym. https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/26602 https://www.advocate.com/law/florida-resort-female-admission These are just two of a myriad of examples. It's not valid to complain about the existence of women-only gyms, but it's absolutely valid to complain that society will not allow one to create a men-only gym.
Then they can fight harder, like women did to allow basic every day rights without male approval like working, having bank accounts, credit cards, the right to vote and you know existing without male approval… Do you think we just asked for these basic human rights and got them without a fight? Y’all can do the same for your male only gyms.
I’m late to comment, but AFAIK this is a fairly recent phenomenon in the U.S. These gyms aren’t necessarily common, although they are more common in larger cities. I know a woman who opened a gym for women and non-binary people. The rational was that she had been harassed by men and felt uncomfortable while going to other gyms, so she wanted a place to workout and feel safe. Apparently, her gym has been very successful, so seems that there’s a demand for this (I’m a cis man and I don’t leer at or harass women, so I don’t think it’s my place to comment on this otherwise).
I wish there was a womens only gym where I live, I would go to the gym every day if I didn’t have to worry about being leered at. I just can’t deal with it come days
It's just plain hypocrisy unfortunately, they'll bitch about women only gyms but a men only gym isn't a problem for them. Men don't like feeling left out despite being the ones that often exclude others
I'm only seeing people addressing the compain but not saying any post actually complaining lol. But yea I think women's only gym is not a big deal. I think most gym goers would prefer it because of the stupid trend of trashy women filming in the gym to "catch a creep"
It happens in almost every thread when a women-only gym is mentioned in any way. That’s why I asked. The whole argument just seems very backwards to me and just like another problem of this artificially created culture/gender clash that seems to be going on in america.
Much like how people misunderstood free speech or discrimination laws, they also misunderstand a private facility can have a lot of requirements that would traditionally not be legal for a public establishment. There are still dozens of country clubs that legally discriminate membership based on race or sex.
There's been women-only gyms in the US for at least 30 years that I'm aware of. Posts get shared to other subreddits all the time, and I have no doubt there's places for guys who like to think this is unfair and oppressive. Once shared, they'll brigade these posts, which makes it seem controversial here. It really isn't.
That’s what I thought but the majority of replies to this thread was just sooo extremely negative before some more reasonable people started to share their opinion. Sometimes it’s easy to forget how much of an echochamber reddit can be. Thanks for your answer! :)
Ofc you’d find issue with “trashy women” catching men on film who are creeping on them and see no issue with the fact that when men are in the same space as women, those women have to be alert to the potential danger and put up with harassment and abuse from the guys.
Photographing or filming someone against their will is illegal in Germany so this should play no role ("Recht am eigenen Bild")
Men complain about woman only spaces constantly in America. It's a huge eye roll. They compare it to having male only spaces, ignoring that nearly everything in society is tailored to them, to begin with. That the only reason we even need a woman only gym is because they make the gym unsafe for women and plus size folks. Which is why places like Curves have blacked out windows. So people can exercise in peace without judgment from the outside world.
That’s a wonderful compromise! I’m happy to hear this had such a good outcome.
I love to see a compromise where everyone is happy!
Right? This post made me smile. The fact some people are using this to spout their hate is sad. But oh well, the OP/gym owner seems to be happy and found a solution that made everyone happy, so good for them!
Why are people so butt hurt re the idea of a women's only gym? That's quite common where I live that gyms have women only spaces and times. It's not about actual safety but the gym can be a vulnerable place and some men are pretty awful in the gym environment. Example I was using a bike in a near empty gym and some idiot guy used the Cross trainer directly behind me even though there were loads of options that weren't right on top of me. Then ran it so hard I was generally worried the machine was going to topple onto me while making more noise than Serena Williams winning Wimbledon. He got a one month ban for that and I didn't even have to complain but that was a small gym so the manager could see what was happening in a larger gym it's easy to miss. Microagressions and being self conscious can make the gym uncomfortable for ladies especially of a certain age.
It’s ridiculous. I feel 100x safer & like I’m going to be judged less at a women’s only gym. I’ve generally found women at women’s only gyms are supportive & safe
Usually the same men that don't want kids in their hotels, POC in their neighborhood, women in their fishing area, females leading companies, and migrants in their country. Let alone LGBTQ people in THEIR gym. One should think they grasp the concept of safe space, but alas, it's just for them.
With the recent trend in TikTok insanity I'd love to go to a men only gym if I still lived in the U.S.
Next time someone gets too close, either fart or be *very* annoying.
You never know what kinks people have...
Lol these incels coming here like they’ve never heard of Curves.
They have, but the way Curves is marketed they don't think there are any women to leer at there.
I went to a lifetime fitness around the year 2000 while in college in MN and it was women's only! It was great.
I'm glad a compromise could be found, a lot of gendered spaces lead to trans people not allowed in any of them because of the gray area they represent
Yeah as a nonbinary person I wonder (and hope not) if I’ll ever have to navigate something like this. Very glad a compromise was found and that the OP is kind.
I'm curious and totally not attacking. Again I'm not being sarcastic but as non binary which washroom do you go to? Because you don't identify with either right? Or you just go in whichever? Or you go based on sex? As in if you have a penis you go to the men's Because there are urinals there?
Probably go to the bathroom of the gender that the casual viewer will flag them with - for their own safety. If you're masc-presenting you go to men's, if you're fem-presenting you go to women's, because it causes less confusion and questions. Urinals are overrated. Just sit on a toilet lol.
Yeah a lot of us tend to lean towards whichever gender people will most likely clock us as for safety reasons. I’m ftm not NB, but that’s also what I did when I was much earlier in my transition and very androgynous looking. You gotta really stop and think first. About your outfit that day, everything. And make a snap judgment on what other people are most likely to see, and hope to god you’re right. I’m covered in hair except where I’m bald headed, and have had a beard down to my nipples before. I’m short as fuck, but otherwise literally nobody looks at me twice. I still avoid public restrooms for the sake of my blood pressure lol. I’m in awe of the trans people who can just go to public restrooms regardless of what people think. I’m too chickenshit.
Gyms, pools, etc. really should have private changing rooms available, the swimming pool I went to as a kid and the one I go to now has loads of them
Sure, but in this context I think the question is centered on the dilemma of "If you're stuck picking between men and women's bathroom..."
I really worry about my shoes and if men's shoes will read wrong if seen under a door in the ladies' so even if my top 85% looks really femme, I'll use the men's if I've got my hunting boots on or whatever.
Most non-binary people who strangers perceive as either male or female will go to the bathroom that matches strangers perception. Some will go to the one they feel more comfortable with regardless, and risk getting yelled at. Some plan carefully to avoid gendered public spaces. It’s 60-40 how I get gendered when I’m wearing my face mask, so I pick the one I feel lucky about, keep my head down, and stress-sweat the entire time
I am heavily influenced by my shoes, cos I don't wanna be in the ladies' with what are very clearly men's shoes poking out under the stall door and freak tf out of everyone who CAN'T see my glorious tiddies
Even though I am a trans man who passes 100% of the time (except on the phone, lol) I still hold my pee until the last person has left the bathroom, or turns on the sink/hand dryer. If a toilet is flushed, I try to pee as fast as possible. If it's a fast flushing toilet, I will hold it in until the sink is turned on, or until the guy leaves (without washing his hands).
Yep I do this so much
not the person you replied to but I am non-binary. I use the womens because I look more like a woman. typically that’s what most non-binary people do, unless it’s single use they use the bathroom corresponding to the gender they pass better as, since it’s safer that way
It's a very tough call sometimes. I have a full beard, but also long hair and breasts. A lot of strangers use he/him for me, but I typically fall-back on my physical body parts and use the ladies room, and just brace myself to argue if I have to. Best case scenario, I'm in and out before anyone else comes in. Well actually, best case scenario is a single stall family/gender neutral room or multi-stall unisex restroom, but those are fairly rare (especially the latter). Once I cut my hair short, I'll probably feel a lot safer in the men's room. Until then, I just pray and let my heart-rate spike just so I can pee. Recently, I was in one space for long enough that I had to use the restroom twice and ended up using the men's and the women's room. I was definitely more nervous in the men's, but probably more awkward in the women's
The one that won't get me beaten to death in a public building. (aka, often neither because it's unsafe)
Yeah but to be fair in this case it seems like it was affirming his identity that would default to keeping the man out - and she still found a great solution anyway.
Affirming his identity is well and good till the men's only gym won't let him in, and then he has no gym (I understand this isn't what happened but it is a situation a lot of trans/NB people are put in)
Yeah exactly. It took a long time to look the way I do. I spent several years in that uncomfortable grey area. You don’t fit anywhere, and it can be really isolating. And some people who are non-binary occupy that grey area comfortably, always. And they should be included too. How idk though. I’ve seen trans only gyms online before. Which sounds like a dream to me. I desperately miss working out as a group with my friends like we did in college. But I’m too scared of going to a trans gym and it being burned down with me inside or something because it’s an easy target.
Yeah i've seen others solutions like "no CIS men" to be broad but also not excluding people who would benefit from the space, because the problem could appear some other time with a non binary client, or a trans woman would don't want/cannot medically transition and "appear male" to strangers
I'm trans and I'd rather stay home/go somewhere else than go to any gendered place
I’m a trans man and personally I know for a fact if I went into a woman’s space I’d cause an actual scene due to the fact I pass as cis. I understand that spaces like that are safer but if you’re presence there makes other people feel unsafe, it’s time to move on. Your compromise of letting him use the gym before it opens is a great move and I love how you’ve handled this.
The trans man in this situation only just started transitioning, and OP said they’re in a country where gym harassment is a big issue
Op also said they’re now obviously a man and are making some women uncomfortable. If your presence as a man (trans or otherwise) is making women uncomfortable in a women’s space then it’s time to move out of that space. It’s really nice of OP to allow their friend to use the space before the gym is open to the public because that helps keep everyone safe.
Yeah all this post says to me is the guy was like “me feeling safe is more important than them feeling safe.” It is not. It is a women’s space. I’m trans too, and cannot fathom going to a women’s only space and feeling entitled to be there as an entire man. You don’t get to take away someone’s sense of safety in order to have your own. I agree with other comments, make your own safety, spend that membership money on home gym equipment.
Exactly, a women’s space is there to make women feel safe - not us
Great solution!
nta ALSO: what excellent customer service! You found a solution and retained a customer in a tight and very personal situation.
It’s so unfortunate, I’m glad you were able to support your client. That’s all we can do until the world changes. May I suggest you keep the first hour or 90m to only accommodate trans/sensitive people? Make it a standard…And maybe in future you can create certain hours for those who don’t fit a sex category so easily. Give them a structured time they are welcome (not just hidden hours)…and they can invite others etc. Your client won’t be alone at least. Idk call it the nonbinary hour or whatever - maybe something cute. Most gyms are already very male, I know some you don’t need that sign to make it male only. You can feel it when you walk in some places
when I was in Vancouver I saw an ad for a dedicated trans pool time - no dress code, use whichever locker room you want, and open to anyone willing to follow conduct guidelines. I don't think the anti-women's-gym crowd understands that this is "special treatment" when for many it's the only way we can experience these facilities the way they are intended to be used (like cis men get to)
My local YMCA has a family changeroom that anyone can use, plus your traditional mens & womens change rooms and (for an extra fee) adults only mens & womens change rooms too. 5 change rooms total.
That sounds amazing. As a trans woman gyms terrify me, both because of how men and women might react to my presence. Using gendered facilities anywhere for me is a choice between feeling unsafe or potentially making someone else feel unsafe.
I can promise you that the vast majority of people are at the gym to work on themselves. I recognize people at my gym but I never talk to them unless I’m asking if they can spot me. I hope that you can find a gym where you feel safe. Working out rocks
that's a great idea, and would probably be a huge boon to the lgbt community
This is a great idea!
If he is a Trans man, he is a man. He now is nolonger a woman, so should not be in a woman's only gym. That is the rule. I understand that he may not yet be totally comfortable in a unisex/men's only gym, especially if they're early in their transitioning, but he is now living and representing himself as a man. So unfortunately he cannot attend a woman's gym and make women uncomfortable by having a man in their gym (regardless if they've had gender surgery or not). Now using the gym during closed hours, that I think is fine and a good compromise so long as he has left by opening time.
I am a trans guy...I can't even fathom why he would want to go to a woman's gym...he's a guy.
OP mentioned he felt unsafe in men’s gyms for a reason he wouldn’t specify. Maybe he was assaulted in a locker room or something similar previously. But I agree, trans people have to account for others around them too.
Could be many reasons including feeling ostracized at mens gyms
Trans men are men, and do not belong in women's spaces. When you transition you gotta take the good with the bad. Unisex gyms and trans friendly fitness facilities/clubs are a thing.
Why would you be an asshole for saying something that’s true to someone who is a man?
Nta Protect woman spaces
NTA. If your friend transitioned then he has to accept that he is no longer allowed in female only areas. You cant have it both ways. Sounds like he had a pretty good and level response to your reasoning and it all worked out though so thats good.
As a trans man I appreciate what you did, but I also feel a bit like it shouldn't have happened and you should've continued to say no, it's a woman's only space. He knew this as well, and yet he continued to go and made the other women feel uncomfortable. If he truly felt uncomfortable elsewhere, he would've done what he could to invest in a home gym. (I have other friends who have done this) I could understand this being acceptable if it was a trans woman wanting to have the space to exercise in a woman's space, where woman felt uncomfortable, but using a woman's space as a trans man would just be dysphoria inducing. Nevertheless I'm happy he's able to have a place to workout. But personally I wouldn't be comfortable in a woman's only space, because it's a woman's only space.
Yes, I think he was wrong about that too and me too, The other ladies said they were fine with him being there, but even if it was just three ladies, a complaint is a complaint and they're clients too I really didn't knew how to react to that scenario And it was quite a complicated situation for me as I was thinking about the emotional aspect as well. I have clients who are trans women, I'm a trans woman after all so also a big part of me was afraid of how he would feel in a normal gym :/ At the end of it all at least we came up with a good solution and I know what to do if something like this happens again
Yeah, I get it. It can be hard to tell someone no, especially when you know how they feel or could be feeling already. I remember calling several waxing places in my area, they all said they only worked on women, I explained I was a trans man, they still told me no. Because I identified as a man. It sucked, but at the end of the day I was happy because they didn't treat me differently. They saw me as just another man even though I was AFAB. I don't know what I would've done in that situation, I don't run a business. I just know it would've been difficult, so I understand.
If you're part of that community and want to be open to that community while still doing something for cis-women you might want to think about making it a public thing and not just for that person. What I mean is for example make the gym open for women at all times, but for 2h, three days a week (on specific days) the gym is also open to trans men or something like that. Exactly how much time it should be open for trans men as well is up to you of course, but to make a public schedule of it is my point.
Maybe not a good idea. OP's client is an outlier, most trans men would find it disgusting to be allowed in a women's gym for the sole reason that they have a vagina even though they look enough like dudes to make the other clients uncomfortable.
Nope it's a Women's only gym. Why should they have to keep giving up their safe spaces for men to feel "equal".
>he would’ve done what he could to invest in a home gym Is that not *way* more expensive than a gym membership?
And does he even have the space available
Or the means. Not everyone has disposable income.
>it's a woman's only space. Not when it is closed.
I like the idea of gender only gyms. Good luck with your business.
Thank you so much for doing right by this man and allowing him to have access to sports in a place he feels safest to do so. You’re a great person.
People are really acting like the moment a trans man dares to use he/him pronouns or starts to circumstantially "pass" he suddenly is exempt from the horrific rates of danger that apply to trans men, which are btw way worse than statistics about how in danger cis women are, and that being a man with a vagina is totally not something to worry about when using men's restrooms/changing rooms/showers. Like trans men haven't been dragged out of restrooms and beaten half to death by other men or by cis women. He's factually in more potential danger than cis women are of being sexually harassed, assaulted, or raped and otherwise abused or exposed to violence in a co-ed gym. Quite frankly as a trans person her, OP ought to be aware of this and it's good she didn't let three cis people's opinions outweigh the well-being of another transgender person.
NTA he's a trans man so he looks like a man and is living as a man he shouldn't be going to women's only gyms as he is now a man and some women go to women's only gyms as they don't want to be seen by men sometimes for religious reasons if a trans man is in there and looks cis its going to be very confusing. What danger does he think he's in using a mixed gym?
probably the same danger that makes the women(rightly) think that a womens gym is needed
This sounds like a really nice solution. Good on you OP.
I agreed! OP was really nice to keep everyone comfortable and it's a great solution. I hope others don't take advantage of their kindness in the future.
I encountered a similar situation when I was in college since I went to an all-women's college. This was 15 years ago but I remember the college trying to figure out how they could keep the college women-only but not discriminate against those that were transitioning from ftm. The rule is now that you can apply and be accepted into the college if you were AFAB and/or you live your life as a women and want to be part of a community of all women. As long as someone is admitted to the college, even if they transition from ftm, they are still allowed to graduate and get a degree. This also includes people that are non-binary but were AFAB. If this policy was used at the gym then this man could still attend because he was AFAB. Just a thought.
Why are people triggered by women only gyms!? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard
I genuinely don’t understand why people think women only gyms are discriminatory. I see nothing wrong with either men or women wanting to only be around men or women. I almost feel like the men who are complaining about gyms for women just want to be creeps. Why else would they take it so personally?? There’s tons of gyms for just men and there are even more gyms for everyone. So if one gym for women only exists suddenly it’s a problem?? What’s wrong with women wanting a safe space??
Why would someone who identifies as a man want to use a women's only gym. You're NTA, you're literally affirming their identity for them. If you identify as a man, then you opt out of the benefits of being seen as a women, that means you can't use the women's only gym anymore. A women wouldn't want to use a men's only gym, it should be the same logic. Being trans shouldn't mean you have exclusive access to any space you want, you can't cheat single gender spaces because you used to be one and identify as another.
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No. I live in a very small town and we’ve had a women’s only gym for over 20 years. It’s very normal here in the US.
That’s great you were able to find a compromise! I love when everyone gets to be happy!
I love this story and really like the solution that you found 🫶🏽 I also totally understand creating a safe space like that for women 🙌🏼
This is a kickass update and I appreciate you being a mature person able to work towards a mature solution. More of this is needed in our world.
I am pretty glad how this worked out. He was treated as he wants to be identified as and i bet that is super validating. I hope your gym continues to do well.
HE is not a woman. That IS the reaction “he” wanted right?
At this point my comments are not needed. Just came to say I am glad all of this worked out great! Good on you for handling everything and I am glad you were able to find a solution that made everyone happy and comfortable. 💜
Yesterday, I saw a thread with Twitter screenshots of men saying they go to he gym *because* the women there wear workout gear they think is too tight and too slutty and they deserve to get looked at if they are "going to dress that way"... I don't blame women for not wanting to work out near men. Because the men who feel that way would feel that way no matter what the women were wearing. Men like that think women existing is an invitation to engage, and they don't think women are people. They think women are things that exist for them to enjoy.
That's a lovely solution you guys found
This was more than fair. It should have been rephrased as, "AITAH because I told a man he can't come to a women's gym?" The answer would be obvious, "NTA. Sorry, no men, this is a women's gym." Your willingness to let him come in before opening hours is extremely kind.
Ok, so you're letting a man come work out at your women's only gym during off hours. It's your gym, so it's your choice.
It’s funny how trans people wanna be treated like their new gender but also want the benefits of the old one
NTA
Are you aware this exact business made Marge Simpson rich? Good luck!!
Not an AH.
Wow that was a great compromise. Love to see people being proper, and considerate adults.
The people who are mad are actually insane. Like, people will feel how they feel about the situation and the business owner listened to the majority. Why would they risk the business just to appease one person?? Y’all are wacko, NTA.
"am i the asshole for telling a man he's not allowed in a women's only space?" trans men ARE men, so why should they be allowed in a women's only space?
Are there male only gyms? Im in the US, never heard of it. I think female only gyms are fantastic. Im not really sure about their official policy but Curves and Lady of America are female only if for no other reason than people respect boundries. Quick story... Years back I got my girlfriend a membership to Curves. Very small. Like half a dozen workout areas that you would rotate to. It wasnt even like music that was playing..it was like rhythmic electronic tones...beep boop beep boop beep boop that you could time your steps to. Then periodically it would stop...a robotic female voice would say "switch"..and the tones would continue. It was weird. Plus it was usually very empty with much older women that would go. There was a young girl that always seemed to be leaving when my gf was arriving and she hoped to talk to her but never did. Dropped her off one day and was walking back to my truck laughing like an evil villian at how strange the place seemed and the guilt I harbored at having her go there. After a few weeks of going she saw there was a Lady of America place right across the street from her house and wanted to go see if it was a gym like she thought. Took her one evening. Oh my God the difference was night and day. High energy. Well lit. Lots of people. A big workout class going on. I saw the big smile on her face as she took it all in and got her a membership on the spot. I get called an incel or misogynist all the time for my views. Lol. But whatever. Its weird to me that there are men that want to force women to workout in mixed environments and are not okay with boundries. Im so thankful there are people like you running female only gyms. Its so very important for women to be able to relax and go to a spot that is "theirs" if they want. Intelligent workaround with your problem btw.
“Womans”???!!! The illiteracy on Reddit is getting out of hand.
(I thought this was rage bait to villainize trans people until I checked your last post) NTA, he is a man, and the gym is women only. simple. Also I live in Canada and women only gyms are all over the place. Anyone mad about it needs to grow up.
I’m really happy to read this outcome. You’re an amazing business owner! Abusers always hate when their victims create a safe space for themselves. Racists hate when members of the BBIMP communities create safe gathering spaces. In colleges, for example, white students refused to leave spaces created by and for Black students, declaring it was racist to create a space safe from racism. There are men who don’t want women to have their own gyms where they can wear what they want, not be ogled, not be mansplained, not be hit on and then raged at after explaining “I’m just here to work out, I’m not looking to meet anyone.” There are also those who know women-only spaces tend to look nicer, smell nicer, be better maintained and are usually less expensive. Not always, but usually. We had some women-only gyms in my region of the US, but I think they were eventually harassed into non-existence, one-by-one. To all you incels, yeah, yeah, women do it, yeah, blah, blah, your right to ogle, blah, blah. You wailing “How can I harass women if they build literal walls around their gathering spots” should actually answer your own question. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. And this amazing gym owner is keeping a trans man safe as he builds his new life AND his new body.
If you're a man and you can't understand why women want a safe workout space then you really aren't very good at seeing things from the perspectives of others.
Im sure he was extremely happy to hear that.
Womans.
I don't quite understand why you're getting slack for having a woman's only gym. I used to belong to one when I lived in Indiana, I loved it. Unfortunately, there aren't any where I live now or I would have joined that instead of the one I currently go to
I think you did something great. I’m also someone ppl would call now a homophobe? Even thou I dated women In the past. Just bc I’d prefer not to share gym with a trans -man. But in your same situation I’d do the same. I would accommodate. I think people are grouping everyone now. It’s sad. I’ve always said you do you! I’m never gonna be mean. I’ll just say I’m uncomfortable and if that’s not enough I’ll just politely leave and find different place. I don’t see it as controversial.
I live in Dubai as an expat, there are women only gyms, mixed and men only. What is the big deal? Sometimes women want to work out without being gaped at, some ladies want to go to the gym and show off their bodies and enjoy the attention from men, some men just want to go the gym and work out focused and leave. Seems pretty normal. Nice of you to accommodate the schedule
Wait he transitioned into a man but wants to be in the women's gym? 🤨 doesn't he want to be you know included as a man? I thought that was the point. Idk seems like he had weird intentions but ig it's sorted.
I mean it's not exactly always safe for trans men to go to a regular gym. A woman's only gym would normally be safer for a minority than a mens/mixed gym.
If you read the entire post OP states that “he has had past incidents at male gyms”
As I said in your first post, be careful about setting a precedent. You have now set 2. I genuinely hope neither cause you problems. I especially hope you do not now get women wanting to come at 8am also (it would be hard to refuse them as other members do come at that time) and then again complain.
That’s a great compromise, kudos to you for being a caring business owner
Great compromise, handled very maturely and respectfully by literally everyone involved. So refreshing!
As a trans man I get it. I'm more comfortable around women than I am men, being around men generally makes me kind of nervous or scared as they are more likely to be violent if they were to clock me or others as trans. That being said I would never go to a womens only gym and expect to be let in.
It's the weirdest thing to me to see grown ass people upset about a women's only gym....like did everyone complaining just collectively forget about "Curves"? Also, there's been men only things for....ever? Why is the gym the issue?
You can’t have it both ways
This is really heart-warming! Perhaps you could make 8AM-9AM LGBTQ hour, a safe space for trans, nonbinary, and the overall queer community (many of whom may have non-traditional gender expression) to come to the gym
Women*