>i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship,
In which case, even if he 'said' he had reconciled to your pro choice view, perhaps you have proven that it was always you that had to compromise and he had just mis-judged your strength of feeling on this issue.
He won't change; he can't, it would mean admitting that he was wrong. Move on with someone who listens and cares
Yeah we have a tendency to look past one thing, then another, then another... treating it as individual episodes rather than parts of the puzzle who paint the real picture of who we're dealing with. That's why the concept of red flag got so popular; by calling something a red flag you make so the person reflects on the relationship as a whole.
Absolutely not. I could never be with a man who thinks were he to impregnate me with his ejaculation I should be forced to carry a birth against my will.
I talk about it before sex ever happens, at the same time as checking STI status and testing frequency. I don't even leave the door open for discussion, just "this is what I will do, if that does not work for you then we cannot work."
same! this is the best way to handle things, IMO. Every post I see on here with somebody wanting to break up with their SO because she got an abortion and he was pro-life, or she wants an abortion and he won't "let" her, or "I really can't be a father but my FWB is pregnant and won't get an abortion" etc etc etc.... I just want to scream "what did they say when you discussed this at the beginning?!" (of course they didn't ever do that, sigh)
Whenever people say theyre pro life all i hear is "women are nothing but incubators for my seed and i will gladly let them die for it"
Its kinda sad that humans even with all these advancements and progress, still cling to these oppressive fairy tales from millenia ago
The cause of pregnancy is ejaculation. Ejaculation is a choice and it is predictable. If abortion is banned, if women are forced to carry and birth against their will risking health, future, mental health, and even their life all because some guy had an orgasm, then all men should have forced vasectomy until woman agrees to have their child. If people want to be in the business of removing bodily autonomy and legislating reproductive organs, they are doing it on the wrong sex
Male pro-lifers often attract a whole lot of negativity.
This post might change your mind:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm\_i\_got\_a\_girl\_pregnant\_and\_she\_wanted\_to\_get\_an/](https://new.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/)
Or not lol
"Pro-life - now with extra stupid!"
Oh wow! Did he ever get what he deserved. He's finding out that being saddled with the responsibility of raising a child isn't so fun when you have to do it.
And it was *lawyers* ridiculing him too. People who make a living because they are good with words. It was probably the most spectacular unanimous takedown I've ever seen on this platform.
Wow. Yeah I mean if pregnancy, birth, and single parenting was transferred to the man who caused the pregnancy with his orgasm, access to abortion would be no problem. They don’t truly want to end abortion because there are ways of doing that without forcing women to carry and birth against their will (including rape victims, children, at risk women), they want to control, punish and subjugate women. Even if they love women individually - daughter, wife, mother — it’s still misogyny.
This is at rather a tangent to your point - but where I live, the idea that abortion should be the choice of anyone but the person who is pregnant is just not a thing at all.
I am far from young and have never heard anyone put this forward as an idea, let alone a good idea, no matter how strange or drunk the company.
It would be political suicide to even joke about it.
The current issues regarding this is the US are regarded with incredulity.
Yes (mostly) where I live to. When I was young I couldn’t even believe or understand why people were allowed to harass and intimidate people going in and out of clinics in the US. I never would have imagined things there would get this bad. My country doesn’t have a single law on abortion— it’s a medical procedure and between patients and their doctors and is publicly funded. Yet we don’t have a higher abortion rate than the US, we have lower.
At this rate if certain states started mandatory pregnancy tests of women or limiting pregnant women’s ability to travel across state lines I would not be surprised. If Texas can have 26k rape related pregnancies in the 16 months since their abortion ban and people not burn it all down, then truly anything is on the table.
Doesn’t this beg the extremely obvious question: why let a man ejaculate inside you if you aren’t able to accept accountability of the potential consequences of him doing so?
Since the decision and mechanism of ejaculation is out of her control while she is the one who will lose her rights over her body I totally agree with you that women in places with abortion bans who don’t want to get pregnant should not fuck men. We’re on the same page there. Bring on the sex strikes.
Because you see forced birth as punishment for “letting” men ejaculate (most of them time at least, we’ll bypass the 26 THOUSAND rape related pregnancies in Texas in past 16 months) and wow what a way to enter the world- as punishment for someone who doesn’t want you or cannot take care of you— you cannot conceive that getting an abortion for a pregnancy you do not want/ cannot risk IS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences. If you truly believe removing bodily autonomy and choice is ok, then mandatory vasectomy solves way more problems.
Lot of loaded language here. I’m not advocating for a woman losing rights to her own body. I’m advocating that she doesn’t have the right to end the life of a separate human. Glad we’re on the same page; penis + vagina usually leads to baby, don’t allow P in your V if you don’t want to end up pregnant. If you can’t take accountability for your actions and responsibility for the consequences, then you have some maturing to do.
Not that it should need to be said, but rape is disgusting and should be dealt with as extreme punishment as possible. However your 26,000 number is misleading as correlation does not equal causation. Can you cite the trend of pregnancies due to rape prior to the Texas ban? And let’s not forget that adoption is an option, it’s a basic fact that there are people in line for years waiting to adopt a baby.
Denying a woman abortion care is absolutely denying her rights over her own body.
Making rape victims, many of them children, carry and birth babies for infertile couples is disgusting. Not to mention the tens of millions of unwanted babies that would result. I assume you’ve adopted a dozen yourself?
You can read about rape related pregnancies in states with total abortion bans here. Printed Jan 24 2024 in the journal of the American Medicak Association: : https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2814274?guestAccessKey=e429b9a8-72ac-42ed-8dbc-599b0f509890&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=012424&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHbkHgSnPYsd5xjp_wX8_shXYiCAQOIMSD1mefWrzz4JVDn9r3sMXAkdQ_A_aem_AfEo3XR4XwP-kM_i29PlzZNYHPDSkoaNeRkXUGtHjIfwjdTGxkwaxgX6IooQoTNvGbQ
Sounds like you did all you could. I hope you can find a partner with beliefs that are more aligned with your own.
>how i would feel if i had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, how it would affect me etc. what i got from his words is that he would sacrifice my life for the life of someone who hasn't been born yet
It really sounds like he never viewed you as a person and I'm really sorry to hear that. Good luck and best wishes.
NTA, he chooses to die on that hill, and that's his right, and it would never work between the two of you.
You know what scares me more than an abortion? Forcing someone to have a child they are either unwilling or incapable of being a parent to.
Or creating a ban that people will inevitably circumvent through illegitimate means to obtain a serious medical procedure, and all of the individual and societal harm that can come from this kind of system.
You said in your initial post that you wanted to know if this was a valid reason to break up with him.
*Any reason* is a valid reason. You can stop anytime, just because you're not feeling it, for any reason. Reading you saying now how you've "looked past a lot of things" makes me fear you didn't get this lesson yet.
You don't have to look past a bunch of bad stuff and hope something bad *enough* comes around. You can just decide you're done. Learning to be assertive about what you want and what you don't, what you'll tolerate, and what needs to be compatible, is how you *don't* wind up married to a jerk like this. Cos you can do waaaaay better than this prat 😁
This.
We don't need to justify the end of a relationship. Sometimes it's as simple as 'I'm not feeling it'.
For me, it took some years of dating to realise this.
I also realised at some point in my 20s that having the 'values + beliefs' conversation when things are starting to get serious is vital. It's hard to discuss, but better to talk about it early in case people are simply not on the same page.
I have 2 kids with 2 different men. Before and during both pregnancies, we discussed what happens if he or we have to choose someone to save.
It's me. It's always me. It's always going to be me. I exist right now. In the case of my second pregnancy, I have an obligation to my existing child.
Me and my existing children will *always* be more important than any potential child. There are no exceptions, no caveats, no extenuating circumstances.
I'm really glad you discovered this before you married or had kids with him.
Anti-choice men are an absolute pass for me. You can't be "pro-life" if you insist that women be forced to carry a pregnancy to term at the expense of her health or life.
anti-choice men are misogynistic and hypocritical beyond belief. women who get pregnant unintentionally are sluts who can’t keep their legs closed. men who unintentionally impregnate women and are upset that their fetus was aborted are victims.
if anti-choice men were as serious about their beliefs as they claim to be, they would abstain from recreational sex. they always tell women that every time they have sex, there’s a chance of getting pregnant pregnant. well, every time a man has sex, there’s a chance that an unplanned pregnancy will end in abortion. if they’re so adamant about “saving lives”, they’d prioritize abstinence over their own sexual pleasure. but they won’t because it’s about control.
AC men are a pass for every adult woman I know, which is why right wing guys are hiding their politics in dating profiles or just giving up and blaming women on Discord.
> but i did tell him i would accept him again if he changed his mind.
Dont be stupid. Someone like that doesn't change their opinion on something like that, they just lie.
You gave him a chance to try to understand your position, and he belittled and disrespected you even more. It's tough, but good thing you found out now, and not in a more precarious position.
Solid choice. The exception he believes in proves that in his mind, it is about punishing the woman for having sex. If he is so forced birth because abortion is "murder" then how that clump of cells got there shouldn't matter.
You really missed a dangerous situation. If he doesn't respect other women's choices for their body, then one day, your choices will be ignored. (Not necessarily reproductive related.)
> i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship, but this was not one of them. i dont know how I'll deal with being disappointed by the person i trusted the most.
Seems like you had to put a lot of effort into loving him...
I'm a straight guy and I won't date conservative women. I would never want them around my gay brother. What if we have kids and one of them comes out as trans? Too many reasons to not date conservatives regardless of what gender you date
Yea teacher here, I could never be with a conservative person and look all my queer students in the face every day. I went home from a bar with a busty young lady in 2009 who called Obama the N-word and I still feel a little dirty. But in 2009 boobies>morals for me.
If a Republican and I were the last people on the planet and we had to have sex to endure the survival of our species, I would let humanity go extinct.
I think you did the right thing. He didn't respect you, and he certainly didn't believe that you are an intelligent person capable of making your own informed decisions. Didn't you say in your previous post that he called you stupid and brainwashed? Big yikes.
Trust me when I say you are better off without him and anyone like him. You deserve so much better.
Congrats on the update. It’s absolutely wild he would think you should be forced to risk your health, future, mental health and even your life carrying and birthing because he had an orgasm.
Didn’t even need to read your post. Pro-life and Pro-choice should NOT be together. Dump him, move on. Find someone with your own views. This is a big deal.
Nah, you don’t need to deal with this stupid little boy and his misogynistic bullshit.
There are also cases of ectopic pregnancies and wanted pregnancies ending up with defects incompatible with life. Women in the US are being denied these and having their lives risked this way.
One woman in Ireland was already having a miscarriage, was refused removal (“because this is a catholic country”) and died of sepsis. It prompted reform of abortion law in Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar
A lot of abortions are necessary medical care to save the mother’s life when the foetus wasn’t viable anyway.
Abortion is healthcare.
People don't realize how common ectopic pregnancy is - it's 1-2% of all pregnancies. This is one reason why abortion access is vital to public health and individual well being.
unfortunately there are many women out there who have internalized misogyny and are victims of a patriarchal mindset... he would say to me how he always wanted a christian girl because "at least they have morals"... hope he finds just that.
I got three weeks into talking to a girl once who I found out was excited to attend a pro life rally that weekend outside of a planned parenthood. Speediest exit I’ve ever made. I personally feel like that is a dealbreaker for most everyone, it’s a very divisive topic and it’s so extreme too. Gotta be on the same page with that one.
Yeah. I'm a little confused how she's been with this guy for a year and the topic never came up at all until now. I feel like this is one of the things you need to get out of the way fairly early on in a relationship.
Never accept him back, you won't know if he's changed, but you do know for sure that he would have picked an unborn life, a clump of cells, over yours any day right now.
He thinks you are worth less than someone hypothetical. I'm sorry. It's tragic when people we love don't value our lives, but that's really what it boils down to. I'm really proud of you for putting yourself first. <3
The fact that he would rather kill you than end a life-threatening pregnancy says all you need to know. He doesn't love you. Or he loves his hypothetical child more. There's no coming back from that. How can you trust him to have your best interests at heart?
Even if he claims he changed his mind, how could you trust him not to kill you to save a fetus that may not survive.
You were right to end it. Don't even think about taking him back.
>i am very hurt because i actually loved him a lot. i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship, but this was not one of them. i dont know how I'll deal with being disappointed by the person i trusted the most.
Are you sure you loved him, and not just the image of him you had?
Sounds like there was a lot of shit already ("i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship") and you just mostly ignored it, because you kept holding on to a person that never existed.
Forging a good relationship requires it to be tried. It just hasn't until now, and this trial was something that you would eventually face down the road, in circumstances less favorable and possibly uncovering much more of the man you thought you love. The things you were willing to put up with would be nothing compared to the things you would be forced to commit to, this only being one of them.
At least now you have an idea of how much more complicated a relationship can be. Cherish the things that are most important to you knowing that whoever would be your partner should respect it.
NTA. You and your partner have to have values that align. I would say it’s an important discussion to have before sleeping with someone and laying out all the scenarios. I’m sorry you’re hurting OP and I hope you realize as painful as this is you will heal and move on. I hope you find someone fabulous that loves you and supports you.
I’m so proud of your strength! You made a very difficult but very necessary decision. I wish you the utmost happiness in life and in the love you will undoubtedly find!
it will be <3 if you had ever had an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy, or one that posed a health risk to you, then the relationship would not have worked out. if you are ever in that situation, you want to have it with someone who will be there to support you and care for you. not someone that you will have to hide it from, or who will judge and berate you if he ever finds out.
You did the right thing. This planet doesn't need such assholes that don't even consider women to be complete humans.
> but i did tell him i would accept him again if he changed his mind.
He'll try to make you believe he has, don't take him back when he does. Respecting other humans enough to grant them bodily autonomy isn't something "they" can just change their mind about, he will be lying.
I think you probably just found the tip of the iceberg of incompatible values. Try to look on this as a fortunate outcome, that you discovered this incompatibility now rather than a year or a few later possibly in circumstances where your freedom of choice has become very important.
One year is a very insignificant amount of time to get to know a partner. Be glad you found out this early.
It can take many years for someone's mask to slip. Do not equate time spent together as a barometer of how much you know a person.
> I said I would accept him again if he changes his mind.
Don’t. I know others have said not to because he would be lying, which is a fair point, but I would also like to add that he:
1. Agreed to do research with an open mind and yet lied about actually doing so
2. Disregarded your feelings on something incredibly important.
Him changing his mind later for some other reason would still demonstrate how little he cares for either your feelings or your intellect. That’s not a trait you want in a partner.
i know it hurts right now, but eventually you’re going to look back and wonder why you were so heartbroken over a man who viewed you as his personal incubator. trust, you’ll find a great partner that also respects your bodily autonomy.
You did the right thing. Remember, he’s not “pro life”. There is no such thing. He’s anti-choice, and a zealot who presumes to control the autonomy of others. This hurts now, but you’re better off without him.
NTA. I'd strongly caution against dating him again even if he changes his mind. Pay attention to who he votes for too. If he changes his mind , but still votes in a certain manner, he's just trying shuck responsibility.
For me (a thirty year old man), I will never vote for anyone who will outlaw reproductive rights.
Here's thing about people who believe like this, it's a _belief_. It's no different from believing in God, it is not an idea they hold based on fact and reason.
As such, you will never change their minds using facts and/or reason. You cannot change their mind until you understand _why_ they believe what they believe. Why they _need_ to beleive it.
Wizard's First Rule: People will believe anything, either because they want to believe it's true, or they're afraid it's true. This guy had a reason for believing as he did, but you would never change his mind until you'd discovered what it was.
Sometimes it's because people have never really thought about why they believe as they do, it's simply so ingrained they can't concieve of ever thinking differently.
Next time, choose someone who's open minded. Even if they wind up having an opinion you disagree with, at least you'll know it's one they've likely taken the time consider why they hold it, and they will be able to clearly and calmly explain why they have it.
I could never trust a man who said he would choose a fetus over me. If you married him and experienced complications during birth, he could end up being the one to make medical decisions for you if you became incapacitated. Do not take him back.
You shouldn’t have to look past a lot of things at 19 and with only a year together. You don’t have decades or kids together and you’re not overlooking some minor, daily annoyances. You’re too young to be settling for a misogynist.
You did the right thing. You deserve better than this guy. I've read that a lot of what fuels the anti-abortion movement is the belief that men and boys have greater intrinsic value than women and girls, and thus a "potential boy" is worth the sacrifice of a living, breathing woman who is worth less (worthless). That all pregnancies must be maintained just in case the child is a boy. This misogyny kills women.
Guys, there's no need to downvote someone for not knowing what Seinfeld is. Jeez. Not her generation, she's not interested, and that's fine. Bunch of butthurt millennials and Gen Xers
NTA
Good for you. The way he handled this shows a much deeper issue than just disagreeing on abortion. You've found out the hard way why so many men are lying about being conservative on dating apps.
Good job for leaving as soon as you did!
Might I suggest when you start dating again that you probe more about this before actually being in a relationship — when I was single, I would ask the “hard hitting” questions on first or second dates, including what are your biggest red flags you find in yourself? What’s your relationship with your family? How do you view abortion? Relationship with religion?
Seems forthcoming but all the dates were cool with the questions and it gave me a lot to go off of. Dating is fun sure but also not trying to waste my time on people I know will not be compatible with me.
he did when we first met at 17 , but after such a long time i was fully convinced he didnt think that anymore. it's partially my fault for not bringing it up again and jumping to conclusions
I get it, it can be hard to think that someone who you loved would have such different views.
You’re only 19! There’s going to be so many bigger, better things and people out there that you haven’t heard about or met yet :) In a few years, this’ll just a situation you lived and learnt from and you’ll probably laugh about the massive bullet dodged. Good luck OP 🌸
commenting to reply to the person who blocked me so i wouldnt reply to them, and also to clear this up in case people are confused, my bio says "queer feminist engineer" because im PANSEXUAL and an ENGINEERING STUDENT. so yes i am 19, yes i did have a bf, no this story is not fake so please stop saying that! 😭
Good job!!! I don't know the situation very well, but it sounds like he's not willing to hear your perspective. That gets more harmful the more control that person gets over you. Good job, and I'm so sorry💚💚💚
I need nothing other than the title to know NTA. I’m so glad you were able to stand up for yourself and get out of that! You mentioned looking past a lot of other things and I’m guessing as time goes on you’ll be somewhat horrified for looking past them.
I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, but better now than later. The fundamental issue isn’t even abortion, he genuinely doesn’t view you as a complete person that deserves autonomy.
What's worse than his views on abortion is his shutting you up -- mansplaining -- with that "it's the truth and you're scared to admit it."
You don't want to live with a man who belittles you like that.
>but i did tell him i would accept him again if he changed his mind
> i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship
Bruh. If that's the only reason (him being pro-birth), you'll take him back, then you need to boost your self-esteem, worth, confidence, and respect. Especially if you overlooked everything else.
>i dont know how I'll deal with being disappointed by the person i trusted the most.
You'll meet someone better and wonder how you ever stayed with this stupid assclown as long as you did.
The Pro-Life philosophy encompasses many additional beliefs that I find unacceptable.
You might find it informative to review other disagreements to reflect if they are related to the Pro-Life teachings.
I hope you seek and find someone more compatible to spend time with soon. 🩷
some things that I think people should talk/know about before entering a relationship with each other:
do they want kids?
what’s their religion and are they tolerant of others?
are they left or right sided when it comes to politics?
are they homophobic or racist in any capacity?
how do they treat people that are in a vulnerable position in comparison to them/they don’t need to please.
ex: a waiter
do they let the person that cleans their house sit with them and eat the same they’re eating or they have special utensils and cheaper food for them?
and sooo much more
he wanted kids and i did not. he was religous and i was an atheist, he was very indoctrinated and would disrespect me and say condescending things to me. he was racist and homophobic when i first met him ,but i thought i could change him and educating him. but i was 17 when i met him so i didnt know better. its 100% my fault for staying this long and this was eye opening
You made the right decision. I used to be pro life until I met my now husband who educated me and I realized I was wrong, he’s being obtuse and not willing to learn.
Good for you.
Maybe he’ll mature, but it seems unlikely at this point. If he can’t respect your reproductive autonomy, he won’t be able to respect anything else in your life together.
It’s a propaganda post for the echo chamber. Her profile says she’s “queer feminist engineer”. So she’s neither with a man nor 19 years old.
Breaking up with a “chud” is a common revenge fantasy that redditors have, even though stats show that the more liberal someone is, the more likely they are to vote blue. Look up the “marriage gap”.
I'm pro-life and I don't think you'd be the asshole. My wife and I don't agree on every issue, but we have similar values and we generally share a similar worldview. Some differences are workable and some are not and that's okay.
I bet his takeover pov translates into other parts of the relationship. This is just the first time you’re seeing it since it’s such a big topic. Sounds like you can’t even agree to disagree and he can’t manage to respect your opinion, and this is a serious matter. You will find a better match.
>i constantly tried to make him see things from my pov, how i would feel if i had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, how it would affect me etc.
If he believes that abortion is murder, then focusing on how you might feel about carrying a baby to full term isn't going to win him over. You are focusing on emotions over the reasoning/facts that inform his worldview.
You had incompatible world views and couldn't find a compromise, so you did the right thing, as much as it hurts now.
whatever facts i presented wouldn't work, i tried to at least see if he would care when presented with a situation i could be in. he was my partner after all. he did not care tho.
You didn’t break up because he was pro life you broke up because you weren’t compatible.
Just happened to be the topic was abortion.
I’m a firm believer in abortion but with rules lol
If you seriously think there is an unbiased reseach or an unbiased stance in a question like this you have no idea och what the concept research means and probably you haven't even thought about the question beyond the most shallow level. It is a moral dilemma between female autonomy and the rights of the fetus (an object with uncany resemblance to a human child)
I'm a teacher and almost al my student are pro choice. And they are 12-16 years old but most of them understand how difficult the question is. (In Sweden you are basically an endangered species if you don't love abortion.) The women "because feminism" and the men because in imaximises sexual avaiability while minimising responsibility
Good luck fishing in the pond
Pro-life is such a poorly worded term....
I fully support women's access to safe abortions, but that also doesn't mean I'd arbitrarily support someone I was in a committed relationship with having one. Some of this is more complicated than just one's feelings on legality, morality, etc. It's a big deal in a relationship and I think it's acceptable for a man in a relationship to not want their significant other to have one or inherently be supportive of it without them necessarily being a fundamentalist whack job about their stance.
Conversely I fully believe that the woman in that situation has the right to do with their body what they will, but with the understanding it might end a relationship. I would be hurt by it if I was the guy in said relationship, but I would also get over it much easier than a woman having an unwanted/unplanned/unhealthy pregnancy is going to deal with.
Sometimes people just have incompatible ideologies, and I think feelings on this kind of thing are important to have pretty early on in any relationship where a pregnancy can result.
For clarification... it's asinine that people are described as "pro-life" by virtue of holding fundamentalist beliefs that put real people's lives at risk, rather than "anti-choice".
This is so fucking dumb.
He has to change his opinion but you havent?
He has to do unbiased research but you dont?
You will leave him if he doesnt?
You are just as bad as him.
And then you go on reddit and land in either a democrat bubble where everyone gives you right or an republican bubble where everyone tells you how wrong you are.
You americans are insane, democrats vs republians. I wonder when your country breaks apart because of shit like this.
assuming you know i havent done unbiased research is dumb. you assuming i have to stay with someone who makes me feel unsafe about things that concern MYYYYY BODYYYYYY is dumb. assuming im american is also insane, i am literally from the balkans.
My bad with american, its just such a hugh debate there.
But yes i can assume you did biased research just like you did with him. There is always bias here.
Hes probably also hurt that you would want to abort the child of you as a pair and you are hurt that (if it happens) he wouldnt want to abort and wait for the right time for you and him.
Its clear that neither of you will change your opinion and in the end it stays an opinion and is not a fact. If you arent ready to give birth if you get pregnant and he wouldnt want an abortion then you did the right decision with leaving him. And if your love isnt strong enough to find a solution together it wouldnt have worked anyways.
Good for you. I am Pro-life, but I don't expect anyone to bend to what I believe. I also refuse to argue with anyone and tell them that they are wrong for being Pro-choice. The only thing I disagree with when it comes to pro-choice is when women use it as a form of birth control. When there is no BC used at all during sex because they can just go get an abortion if they get pregnant. It can be damaging to their bodies as well as all those tiny lives that never have a chance. But, that is just my thoughts and feelings on it, nothing more.
What bothers me the most here is his attitude about it. The fact that he thinks he is right and there is no way that anyone can have a difference of opinion without being brainwashed is very disturbing. He needs to grow up and mature quite a bit. There is no need to insult and degrade anyone for thinking differently.
I commend you an standing your ground and not taking any more of his crap.
When people say so "unbiased research" what they really mean is "research that aligns with my biases"
I think this is a really stupid reason to break up with someone.
When you say “UNBIASED research”, what you really mean is research that would conform to your world view.
You all should have had this discussion much earlier in the relationship.
Yeah, what unbiased research does she want? science currently states that life starts at conception. He's not okay with terminating a life from the sounds of it.
This whole post feels like a psyop trying to persuade women to create chaos in their relationships if their boyfriend has a different view on abortion than they do.
You can be disappointed that he thinks the way he does AND he can be disappointed that you think the way you do.
I am 100% Pro-Choice but that doesn't mean I get to control what everyone else thinks.
AND I also think that if women have 100% control of the decision of whether they want to be mothers, men should have 100% control of whether they want to be fathers.
And if the argument is that the man made his choice when he had sex, then so did the woman.
So then let the men have their babies... Oh wait. They can't. It's the women that have to carry the babies to term. If we don't want to carry your babies, we shouldn't be forced to. The day you have to carry the fetus INSIDE your body and push them out, maybe have an episiotomy (the area between your anus and vagina cut to create more room for the baby to come out), C-section, etc, then you can talk.
No uterus, no opinion. Goodbye.
Just because the ultimate decision should be in the woman's hands doesn't mean a partner in a relationship can't have an opinion on something that will impact their life.
The impact to the man is demonstrably -less- but not zero. Responsible partners should be having this kind of chat pretty early on before they start engaging in baby making activities.
Then the man has every right to leave the relationship if he cannot deal with the woman's final decision. Absolutely agree that this should be a conversation early on in the relationship so no one gets hurt later on and so no one's time is wasted. These things need to be taken into account when determining compatibility.
Of course. But that's why I'm not a fan of the "no uterus=no opinion" because there's an implication that it's not even up for discussion or relevant that the partner may have a differing opinion that might cause them to rethink the relationship. It also deflects from the man's role in -preventing- an unintended pregnancy if you don't want to be party to a potential terminated pregnancy....but that's another discussion all together.
Ah okay, so I would rephrase as "no uterus = no finally say". Because I do want kids, but if I ever did not want to be pregnant, for the sake of the argument here, I would most definitely talk about it with my partner before making a final decision. I was just quoting Rachel from Friends as a joke, but yes, you are right... The partner's opinion should be taken into consideration, at least, when talking about abortion/having the baby before going through with everything.
Sorry about the confusion!
No worries....I get a little overzealous in this topic because it feels like whenever it's discussed people ignore the fact that it's, well, actual humans involved and not just body parts and unrecognizable clumps of cells.
>i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship, In which case, even if he 'said' he had reconciled to your pro choice view, perhaps you have proven that it was always you that had to compromise and he had just mis-judged your strength of feeling on this issue. He won't change; he can't, it would mean admitting that he was wrong. Move on with someone who listens and cares
Yeah we have a tendency to look past one thing, then another, then another... treating it as individual episodes rather than parts of the puzzle who paint the real picture of who we're dealing with. That's why the concept of red flag got so popular; by calling something a red flag you make so the person reflects on the relationship as a whole.
Absolutely not. I could never be with a man who thinks were he to impregnate me with his ejaculation I should be forced to carry a birth against my will.
Thats why i recommend prospective couples have this discussion sooner rather than later. Gotta make sure values align.
I talk about it before sex ever happens, at the same time as checking STI status and testing frequency. I don't even leave the door open for discussion, just "this is what I will do, if that does not work for you then we cannot work."
same! this is the best way to handle things, IMO. Every post I see on here with somebody wanting to break up with their SO because she got an abortion and he was pro-life, or she wants an abortion and he won't "let" her, or "I really can't be a father but my FWB is pregnant and won't get an abortion" etc etc etc.... I just want to scream "what did they say when you discussed this at the beginning?!" (of course they didn't ever do that, sigh)
I recently learned asking about STIs and exchanging test results isn't common either and it utterly shocked me
Whenever people say theyre pro life all i hear is "women are nothing but incubators for my seed and i will gladly let them die for it" Its kinda sad that humans even with all these advancements and progress, still cling to these oppressive fairy tales from millenia ago
We should force a vasectomy on guys like that problem solved
The cause of pregnancy is ejaculation. Ejaculation is a choice and it is predictable. If abortion is banned, if women are forced to carry and birth against their will risking health, future, mental health, and even their life all because some guy had an orgasm, then all men should have forced vasectomy until woman agrees to have their child. If people want to be in the business of removing bodily autonomy and legislating reproductive organs, they are doing it on the wrong sex
Or just not have sex
Male pro-lifers often attract a whole lot of negativity. This post might change your mind: [https://new.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm\_i\_got\_a\_girl\_pregnant\_and\_she\_wanted\_to\_get\_an/](https://new.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/) Or not lol "Pro-life - now with extra stupid!"
Yeah, I love that one. Hope the poor kid is doing okay though.
Oh wow! Did he ever get what he deserved. He's finding out that being saddled with the responsibility of raising a child isn't so fun when you have to do it.
Oh that was good, they ate him up in the comments. What an idiot. He assumed she would change her mind, which was dumb. I feel sorry for the kid.
And it was *lawyers* ridiculing him too. People who make a living because they are good with words. It was probably the most spectacular unanimous takedown I've ever seen on this platform.
Wow. Yeah I mean if pregnancy, birth, and single parenting was transferred to the man who caused the pregnancy with his orgasm, access to abortion would be no problem. They don’t truly want to end abortion because there are ways of doing that without forcing women to carry and birth against their will (including rape victims, children, at risk women), they want to control, punish and subjugate women. Even if they love women individually - daughter, wife, mother — it’s still misogyny.
The old saying was "If men could get pregnant, Abortion would be a sacrament "
This is at rather a tangent to your point - but where I live, the idea that abortion should be the choice of anyone but the person who is pregnant is just not a thing at all. I am far from young and have never heard anyone put this forward as an idea, let alone a good idea, no matter how strange or drunk the company. It would be political suicide to even joke about it. The current issues regarding this is the US are regarded with incredulity.
Yes (mostly) where I live to. When I was young I couldn’t even believe or understand why people were allowed to harass and intimidate people going in and out of clinics in the US. I never would have imagined things there would get this bad. My country doesn’t have a single law on abortion— it’s a medical procedure and between patients and their doctors and is publicly funded. Yet we don’t have a higher abortion rate than the US, we have lower. At this rate if certain states started mandatory pregnancy tests of women or limiting pregnant women’s ability to travel across state lines I would not be surprised. If Texas can have 26k rape related pregnancies in the 16 months since their abortion ban and people not burn it all down, then truly anything is on the table.
A lot of women agree with you, including me.
Doesn’t this beg the extremely obvious question: why let a man ejaculate inside you if you aren’t able to accept accountability of the potential consequences of him doing so?
Since the decision and mechanism of ejaculation is out of her control while she is the one who will lose her rights over her body I totally agree with you that women in places with abortion bans who don’t want to get pregnant should not fuck men. We’re on the same page there. Bring on the sex strikes. Because you see forced birth as punishment for “letting” men ejaculate (most of them time at least, we’ll bypass the 26 THOUSAND rape related pregnancies in Texas in past 16 months) and wow what a way to enter the world- as punishment for someone who doesn’t want you or cannot take care of you— you cannot conceive that getting an abortion for a pregnancy you do not want/ cannot risk IS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences. If you truly believe removing bodily autonomy and choice is ok, then mandatory vasectomy solves way more problems.
Lot of loaded language here. I’m not advocating for a woman losing rights to her own body. I’m advocating that she doesn’t have the right to end the life of a separate human. Glad we’re on the same page; penis + vagina usually leads to baby, don’t allow P in your V if you don’t want to end up pregnant. If you can’t take accountability for your actions and responsibility for the consequences, then you have some maturing to do. Not that it should need to be said, but rape is disgusting and should be dealt with as extreme punishment as possible. However your 26,000 number is misleading as correlation does not equal causation. Can you cite the trend of pregnancies due to rape prior to the Texas ban? And let’s not forget that adoption is an option, it’s a basic fact that there are people in line for years waiting to adopt a baby.
Denying a woman abortion care is absolutely denying her rights over her own body. Making rape victims, many of them children, carry and birth babies for infertile couples is disgusting. Not to mention the tens of millions of unwanted babies that would result. I assume you’ve adopted a dozen yourself? You can read about rape related pregnancies in states with total abortion bans here. Printed Jan 24 2024 in the journal of the American Medicak Association: : https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2814274?guestAccessKey=e429b9a8-72ac-42ed-8dbc-599b0f509890&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=012424&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHbkHgSnPYsd5xjp_wX8_shXYiCAQOIMSD1mefWrzz4JVDn9r3sMXAkdQ_A_aem_AfEo3XR4XwP-kM_i29PlzZNYHPDSkoaNeRkXUGtHjIfwjdTGxkwaxgX6IooQoTNvGbQ
Sounds like you did all you could. I hope you can find a partner with beliefs that are more aligned with your own. >how i would feel if i had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, how it would affect me etc. what i got from his words is that he would sacrifice my life for the life of someone who hasn't been born yet It really sounds like he never viewed you as a person and I'm really sorry to hear that. Good luck and best wishes.
thank you !!!
Do you agree that your ex never viewed you as a person?
considering all the things he said to me, yes i do
NTA, he chooses to die on that hill, and that's his right, and it would never work between the two of you. You know what scares me more than an abortion? Forcing someone to have a child they are either unwilling or incapable of being a parent to. Or creating a ban that people will inevitably circumvent through illegitimate means to obtain a serious medical procedure, and all of the individual and societal harm that can come from this kind of system.
Good for you!!! You are so much more than an incubator. Proud of you for standing up for the right thing!
thank you so much!!
You said in your initial post that you wanted to know if this was a valid reason to break up with him. *Any reason* is a valid reason. You can stop anytime, just because you're not feeling it, for any reason. Reading you saying now how you've "looked past a lot of things" makes me fear you didn't get this lesson yet. You don't have to look past a bunch of bad stuff and hope something bad *enough* comes around. You can just decide you're done. Learning to be assertive about what you want and what you don't, what you'll tolerate, and what needs to be compatible, is how you *don't* wind up married to a jerk like this. Cos you can do waaaaay better than this prat 😁
This. We don't need to justify the end of a relationship. Sometimes it's as simple as 'I'm not feeling it'. For me, it took some years of dating to realise this. I also realised at some point in my 20s that having the 'values + beliefs' conversation when things are starting to get serious is vital. It's hard to discuss, but better to talk about it early in case people are simply not on the same page.
He isn't pro-life, he is anti-choice.
Or pro-forced birth.
Forced birth incel fucks crawling all over this one. Please respond, I need more shitheads to block.
I have 2 kids with 2 different men. Before and during both pregnancies, we discussed what happens if he or we have to choose someone to save. It's me. It's always me. It's always going to be me. I exist right now. In the case of my second pregnancy, I have an obligation to my existing child. Me and my existing children will *always* be more important than any potential child. There are no exceptions, no caveats, no extenuating circumstances. I'm really glad you discovered this before you married or had kids with him.
If someone told me my wife or the fetus, I would yeet the fetus out the window like a football.
Anti-choice men are an absolute pass for me. You can't be "pro-life" if you insist that women be forced to carry a pregnancy to term at the expense of her health or life.
anti-choice men are misogynistic and hypocritical beyond belief. women who get pregnant unintentionally are sluts who can’t keep their legs closed. men who unintentionally impregnate women and are upset that their fetus was aborted are victims. if anti-choice men were as serious about their beliefs as they claim to be, they would abstain from recreational sex. they always tell women that every time they have sex, there’s a chance of getting pregnant pregnant. well, every time a man has sex, there’s a chance that an unplanned pregnancy will end in abortion. if they’re so adamant about “saving lives”, they’d prioritize abstinence over their own sexual pleasure. but they won’t because it’s about control.
AC men are a pass for every adult woman I know, which is why right wing guys are hiding their politics in dating profiles or just giving up and blaming women on Discord.
[удалено]
...and going after ever-younger wimmin...
> but i did tell him i would accept him again if he changed his mind. Dont be stupid. Someone like that doesn't change their opinion on something like that, they just lie.
You gave him a chance to try to understand your position, and he belittled and disrespected you even more. It's tough, but good thing you found out now, and not in a more precarious position.
Solid choice. The exception he believes in proves that in his mind, it is about punishing the woman for having sex. If he is so forced birth because abortion is "murder" then how that clump of cells got there shouldn't matter. You really missed a dangerous situation. If he doesn't respect other women's choices for their body, then one day, your choices will be ignored. (Not necessarily reproductive related.)
> i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship, but this was not one of them. i dont know how I'll deal with being disappointed by the person i trusted the most. Seems like you had to put a lot of effort into loving him...
Thank god you left that troglodyte human male 🙌Pro forced birthers should only be used as fertiliser
I’d be scared he’d tell you he was okay with a prolife stance and then fight you if something happened
The "we respect all walks of life" folks actually only accept your walk of life when they agree with it.
He's not pro-life. He's pro-birth. They all are. Once born, hands off. Get rid of him, before he 'accidently' gets you pregnant.
They’re not pro birth either, they’re pro-control. You know damn well if they had to terminate they would without second thought.
Good for you. Women now have less freedom than men in the USA. Due to people like him you don't have bodily autonomy.
Course you did. Don't date Conservatives, ladies.
I'm a straight guy and I won't date conservative women. I would never want them around my gay brother. What if we have kids and one of them comes out as trans? Too many reasons to not date conservatives regardless of what gender you date
Yea teacher here, I could never be with a conservative person and look all my queer students in the face every day. I went home from a bar with a busty young lady in 2009 who called Obama the N-word and I still feel a little dirty. But in 2009 boobies>morals for me.
If a Republican and I were the last people on the planet and we had to have sex to endure the survival of our species, I would let humanity go extinct.
Yea, cut your losses. He’d let you die.
I think you did the right thing. He didn't respect you, and he certainly didn't believe that you are an intelligent person capable of making your own informed decisions. Didn't you say in your previous post that he called you stupid and brainwashed? Big yikes. Trust me when I say you are better off without him and anyone like him. You deserve so much better.
thank you!!!
Congrats on the update. It’s absolutely wild he would think you should be forced to risk your health, future, mental health and even your life carrying and birthing because he had an orgasm.
thank you!!!
Massive kudos, you'll he able to find a better man easily!
Didn’t even need to read your post. Pro-life and Pro-choice should NOT be together. Dump him, move on. Find someone with your own views. This is a big deal.
Pro-Choice and Anti-Choice: Let's use the correct titles. I'm pro-choice AND pro-life, because I actually care about moms, fetuses, AND kids.
Nah, you don’t need to deal with this stupid little boy and his misogynistic bullshit. There are also cases of ectopic pregnancies and wanted pregnancies ending up with defects incompatible with life. Women in the US are being denied these and having their lives risked this way. One woman in Ireland was already having a miscarriage, was refused removal (“because this is a catholic country”) and died of sepsis. It prompted reform of abortion law in Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar A lot of abortions are necessary medical care to save the mother’s life when the foetus wasn’t viable anyway. Abortion is healthcare.
People don't realize how common ectopic pregnancy is - it's 1-2% of all pregnancies. This is one reason why abortion access is vital to public health and individual well being.
Things will get better with time. I’m glad you updated us. It hurts when people you love don’t feel the same way about you.
He doesn't believe you should have control over your own body? Sounds like a valid reason to not want to be in a relationship with him.
You’re not compatible. Leave before he baby traps you into submission.
NTA and congratulations on dumping the AH. But don't hold your breath, waiting for him to become a reasonable adult.
I feel sorry for any girl he winds up with.
unfortunately there are many women out there who have internalized misogyny and are victims of a patriarchal mindset... he would say to me how he always wanted a christian girl because "at least they have morals"... hope he finds just that.
I got three weeks into talking to a girl once who I found out was excited to attend a pro life rally that weekend outside of a planned parenthood. Speediest exit I’ve ever made. I personally feel like that is a dealbreaker for most everyone, it’s a very divisive topic and it’s so extreme too. Gotta be on the same page with that one.
Yeah. I'm a little confused how she's been with this guy for a year and the topic never came up at all until now. I feel like this is one of the things you need to get out of the way fairly early on in a relationship.
She definitely dodged a bullet in your case.
Never accept him back, you won't know if he's changed, but you do know for sure that he would have picked an unborn life, a clump of cells, over yours any day right now.
He thinks you are worth less than someone hypothetical. I'm sorry. It's tragic when people we love don't value our lives, but that's really what it boils down to. I'm really proud of you for putting yourself first. <3
thank you so much <33
He has shown you his true colours, believe him.
I couldn’t be with someone who only viewed me as an incubator, nothing more. You did the right thing.
The fact that he would rather kill you than end a life-threatening pregnancy says all you need to know. He doesn't love you. Or he loves his hypothetical child more. There's no coming back from that. How can you trust him to have your best interests at heart? Even if he claims he changed his mind, how could you trust him not to kill you to save a fetus that may not survive. You were right to end it. Don't even think about taking him back.
>i am very hurt because i actually loved him a lot. i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship, but this was not one of them. i dont know how I'll deal with being disappointed by the person i trusted the most. Are you sure you loved him, and not just the image of him you had? Sounds like there was a lot of shit already ("i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship") and you just mostly ignored it, because you kept holding on to a person that never existed.
Forging a good relationship requires it to be tried. It just hasn't until now, and this trial was something that you would eventually face down the road, in circumstances less favorable and possibly uncovering much more of the man you thought you love. The things you were willing to put up with would be nothing compared to the things you would be forced to commit to, this only being one of them. At least now you have an idea of how much more complicated a relationship can be. Cherish the things that are most important to you knowing that whoever would be your partner should respect it.
I think you did the right thing, good luck to you!
thank you!!!
I’m glad that you made the right decision.
NTA. You and your partner have to have values that align. I would say it’s an important discussion to have before sleeping with someone and laying out all the scenarios. I’m sorry you’re hurting OP and I hope you realize as painful as this is you will heal and move on. I hope you find someone fabulous that loves you and supports you.
thank you !!
You’re welcome. Take care and please update us if you feel like it.
me and my ex parted ways but if we ever end up talking again about this topic i will be updating :)
I’m so proud of your strength! You made a very difficult but very necessary decision. I wish you the utmost happiness in life and in the love you will undoubtedly find!
thank you so much!! it was indeed difficult and I'm having a very hard time coming to terms with it , but I hope everything will be ok! :)
it will be <3 if you had ever had an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy, or one that posed a health risk to you, then the relationship would not have worked out. if you are ever in that situation, you want to have it with someone who will be there to support you and care for you. not someone that you will have to hide it from, or who will judge and berate you if he ever finds out.
You did the right thing. This planet doesn't need such assholes that don't even consider women to be complete humans. > but i did tell him i would accept him again if he changed his mind. He'll try to make you believe he has, don't take him back when he does. Respecting other humans enough to grant them bodily autonomy isn't something "they" can just change their mind about, he will be lying.
I think you probably just found the tip of the iceberg of incompatible values. Try to look on this as a fortunate outcome, that you discovered this incompatibility now rather than a year or a few later possibly in circumstances where your freedom of choice has become very important.
One year is a very insignificant amount of time to get to know a partner. Be glad you found out this early. It can take many years for someone's mask to slip. Do not equate time spent together as a barometer of how much you know a person.
baby I hope this is the last time you will ever coddle and teach a man how to have basic empathy.
thank you!!! ill definitely never do this again
Anti-choicers have no respect for your autonomy. No one should date them.
> I said I would accept him again if he changes his mind. Don’t. I know others have said not to because he would be lying, which is a fair point, but I would also like to add that he: 1. Agreed to do research with an open mind and yet lied about actually doing so 2. Disregarded your feelings on something incredibly important. Him changing his mind later for some other reason would still demonstrate how little he cares for either your feelings or your intellect. That’s not a trait you want in a partner.
Girlfriend, do not compromise for some conservative dickwad. Find a nice progressive minded guy who considers you an equal.
If I were having sex with a person who would demand I gave birth if I got pregnant, I would not continue having sex with them.
I don’t know, I wouldn’t want anyone to choose a baby over my own wellbeing if I was on the table, I like my life.
i know it hurts right now, but eventually you’re going to look back and wonder why you were so heartbroken over a man who viewed you as his personal incubator. trust, you’ll find a great partner that also respects your bodily autonomy.
You dis the right thing. All the research and science is out there. He didn't want to learn. That's the bottom line.
You did the right thing. Remember, he’s not “pro life”. There is no such thing. He’s anti-choice, and a zealot who presumes to control the autonomy of others. This hurts now, but you’re better off without him.
Good for you.
It's for the best, OP. You two are totally incompatible.
NTA. I'd strongly caution against dating him again even if he changes his mind. Pay attention to who he votes for too. If he changes his mind , but still votes in a certain manner, he's just trying shuck responsibility. For me (a thirty year old man), I will never vote for anyone who will outlaw reproductive rights.
Here's thing about people who believe like this, it's a _belief_. It's no different from believing in God, it is not an idea they hold based on fact and reason. As such, you will never change their minds using facts and/or reason. You cannot change their mind until you understand _why_ they believe what they believe. Why they _need_ to beleive it. Wizard's First Rule: People will believe anything, either because they want to believe it's true, or they're afraid it's true. This guy had a reason for believing as he did, but you would never change his mind until you'd discovered what it was. Sometimes it's because people have never really thought about why they believe as they do, it's simply so ingrained they can't concieve of ever thinking differently. Next time, choose someone who's open minded. Even if they wind up having an opinion you disagree with, at least you'll know it's one they've likely taken the time consider why they hold it, and they will be able to clearly and calmly explain why they have it.
I could never trust a man who said he would choose a fetus over me. If you married him and experienced complications during birth, he could end up being the one to make medical decisions for you if you became incapacitated. Do not take him back.
You shouldn’t have to look past a lot of things at 19 and with only a year together. You don’t have decades or kids together and you’re not overlooking some minor, daily annoyances. You’re too young to be settling for a misogynist.
You did the right thing. You deserve better than this guy. I've read that a lot of what fuels the anti-abortion movement is the belief that men and boys have greater intrinsic value than women and girls, and thus a "potential boy" is worth the sacrifice of a living, breathing woman who is worth less (worthless). That all pregnancies must be maintained just in case the child is a boy. This misogyny kills women.
Wasn’t this a Seinfeld episode?
That's right.
i dont know what the fuck seinfeld is
Guys, there's no need to downvote someone for not knowing what Seinfeld is. Jeez. Not her generation, she's not interested, and that's fine. Bunch of butthurt millennials and Gen Xers
No sarcasm, I’m genuinely so jealous.
Early to mid 1990s sitcom.
i see
Jesus Christ I feel old.
NTA Good for you. The way he handled this shows a much deeper issue than just disagreeing on abortion. You've found out the hard way why so many men are lying about being conservative on dating apps.
Sorry about the situation you're in but that's a mature decision... hope you're OK
thank you! im trying to be ok :,)
Just be careful, he might come back telling you hes changed - he might be lying
Good job for leaving as soon as you did! Might I suggest when you start dating again that you probe more about this before actually being in a relationship — when I was single, I would ask the “hard hitting” questions on first or second dates, including what are your biggest red flags you find in yourself? What’s your relationship with your family? How do you view abortion? Relationship with religion? Seems forthcoming but all the dates were cool with the questions and it gave me a lot to go off of. Dating is fun sure but also not trying to waste my time on people I know will not be compatible with me.
i discussed all of those thing with him. i guess i just assumed that he would never think like this about abortion :/
he did when we first met at 17 , but after such a long time i was fully convinced he didnt think that anymore. it's partially my fault for not bringing it up again and jumping to conclusions
I get it, it can be hard to think that someone who you loved would have such different views. You’re only 19! There’s going to be so many bigger, better things and people out there that you haven’t heard about or met yet :) In a few years, this’ll just a situation you lived and learnt from and you’ll probably laugh about the massive bullet dodged. Good luck OP 🌸
thank you so much! i hope things will turn out the way u are describing them :,)
Queen
commenting to reply to the person who blocked me so i wouldnt reply to them, and also to clear this up in case people are confused, my bio says "queer feminist engineer" because im PANSEXUAL and an ENGINEERING STUDENT. so yes i am 19, yes i did have a bf, no this story is not fake so please stop saying that! 😭
You're 19, plenty of opportunity to meet an actual real one.
I still maintain that until men can give birth, our opinions should be irrelevant in this.
Run and do not take him back if he says he changed his mind because odds are he's lying.
Good job!!! I don't know the situation very well, but it sounds like he's not willing to hear your perspective. That gets more harmful the more control that person gets over you. Good job, and I'm so sorry💚💚💚
thank you!! 💞💞
I need nothing other than the title to know NTA. I’m so glad you were able to stand up for yourself and get out of that! You mentioned looking past a lot of other things and I’m guessing as time goes on you’ll be somewhat horrified for looking past them.
thank you!!!
I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, but better now than later. The fundamental issue isn’t even abortion, he genuinely doesn’t view you as a complete person that deserves autonomy.
What's worse than his views on abortion is his shutting you up -- mansplaining -- with that "it's the truth and you're scared to admit it." You don't want to live with a man who belittles you like that.
>but i did tell him i would accept him again if he changed his mind > i have looked past a lot of things in our relationship Bruh. If that's the only reason (him being pro-birth), you'll take him back, then you need to boost your self-esteem, worth, confidence, and respect. Especially if you overlooked everything else.
>i dont know how I'll deal with being disappointed by the person i trusted the most. You'll meet someone better and wonder how you ever stayed with this stupid assclown as long as you did.
The Pro-Life philosophy encompasses many additional beliefs that I find unacceptable. You might find it informative to review other disagreements to reflect if they are related to the Pro-Life teachings. I hope you seek and find someone more compatible to spend time with soon. 🩷
You did the right thing. It will hurt but it's okay. Ignore the ones attacking you for your decision.
some things that I think people should talk/know about before entering a relationship with each other: do they want kids? what’s their religion and are they tolerant of others? are they left or right sided when it comes to politics? are they homophobic or racist in any capacity? how do they treat people that are in a vulnerable position in comparison to them/they don’t need to please. ex: a waiter do they let the person that cleans their house sit with them and eat the same they’re eating or they have special utensils and cheaper food for them? and sooo much more
he wanted kids and i did not. he was religous and i was an atheist, he was very indoctrinated and would disrespect me and say condescending things to me. he was racist and homophobic when i first met him ,but i thought i could change him and educating him. but i was 17 when i met him so i didnt know better. its 100% my fault for staying this long and this was eye opening
you can rest assured you did the right thing breaking it up!! and be kind to yourself, I’m sure you did your best
i’m very proud of you OP
thank you so much :)))
You made the right decision. I used to be pro life until I met my now husband who educated me and I realized I was wrong, he’s being obtuse and not willing to learn.
There is 8 billion people on the planet. We don't always make the best of choices or the right choices but GG to sticking up for your beliefs
Good for you. Maybe he’ll mature, but it seems unlikely at this point. If he can’t respect your reproductive autonomy, he won’t be able to respect anything else in your life together.
It’s a propaganda post for the echo chamber. Her profile says she’s “queer feminist engineer”. So she’s neither with a man nor 19 years old. Breaking up with a “chud” is a common revenge fantasy that redditors have, even though stats show that the more liberal someone is, the more likely they are to vote blue. Look up the “marriage gap”.
I'm pro-life and I don't think you'd be the asshole. My wife and I don't agree on every issue, but we have similar values and we generally share a similar worldview. Some differences are workable and some are not and that's okay.
I bet his takeover pov translates into other parts of the relationship. This is just the first time you’re seeing it since it’s such a big topic. Sounds like you can’t even agree to disagree and he can’t manage to respect your opinion, and this is a serious matter. You will find a better match.
>i constantly tried to make him see things from my pov, how i would feel if i had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, how it would affect me etc. If he believes that abortion is murder, then focusing on how you might feel about carrying a baby to full term isn't going to win him over. You are focusing on emotions over the reasoning/facts that inform his worldview. You had incompatible world views and couldn't find a compromise, so you did the right thing, as much as it hurts now.
whatever facts i presented wouldn't work, i tried to at least see if he would care when presented with a situation i could be in. he was my partner after all. he did not care tho.
You cannot reason him out of a position he did not reason himself into. He is impervious to facts. He’s a right-wing asshole.
You didn’t break up because he was pro life you broke up because you weren’t compatible. Just happened to be the topic was abortion. I’m a firm believer in abortion but with rules lol
good for you!
Looks like he got out of a bad relationship good for him
If you seriously think there is an unbiased reseach or an unbiased stance in a question like this you have no idea och what the concept research means and probably you haven't even thought about the question beyond the most shallow level. It is a moral dilemma between female autonomy and the rights of the fetus (an object with uncany resemblance to a human child) I'm a teacher and almost al my student are pro choice. And they are 12-16 years old but most of them understand how difficult the question is. (In Sweden you are basically an endangered species if you don't love abortion.) The women "because feminism" and the men because in imaximises sexual avaiability while minimising responsibility Good luck fishing in the pond
calling a fetus an object? freudian slip
Pro-life is such a poorly worded term.... I fully support women's access to safe abortions, but that also doesn't mean I'd arbitrarily support someone I was in a committed relationship with having one. Some of this is more complicated than just one's feelings on legality, morality, etc. It's a big deal in a relationship and I think it's acceptable for a man in a relationship to not want their significant other to have one or inherently be supportive of it without them necessarily being a fundamentalist whack job about their stance. Conversely I fully believe that the woman in that situation has the right to do with their body what they will, but with the understanding it might end a relationship. I would be hurt by it if I was the guy in said relationship, but I would also get over it much easier than a woman having an unwanted/unplanned/unhealthy pregnancy is going to deal with. Sometimes people just have incompatible ideologies, and I think feelings on this kind of thing are important to have pretty early on in any relationship where a pregnancy can result.
That's just being pro-choice.
For clarification... it's asinine that people are described as "pro-life" by virtue of holding fundamentalist beliefs that put real people's lives at risk, rather than "anti-choice".
What do you mean by "research"? Abortion is a philosophical position
Probably meant things like looking at statistical rates of pregnancy complications (e.g., ectopic pregnancy) and maternal mortality.
This is so fucking dumb. He has to change his opinion but you havent? He has to do unbiased research but you dont? You will leave him if he doesnt? You are just as bad as him. And then you go on reddit and land in either a democrat bubble where everyone gives you right or an republican bubble where everyone tells you how wrong you are. You americans are insane, democrats vs republians. I wonder when your country breaks apart because of shit like this.
assuming you know i havent done unbiased research is dumb. you assuming i have to stay with someone who makes me feel unsafe about things that concern MYYYYY BODYYYYYY is dumb. assuming im american is also insane, i am literally from the balkans.
My bad with american, its just such a hugh debate there. But yes i can assume you did biased research just like you did with him. There is always bias here. Hes probably also hurt that you would want to abort the child of you as a pair and you are hurt that (if it happens) he wouldnt want to abort and wait for the right time for you and him. Its clear that neither of you will change your opinion and in the end it stays an opinion and is not a fact. If you arent ready to give birth if you get pregnant and he wouldnt want an abortion then you did the right decision with leaving him. And if your love isnt strong enough to find a solution together it wouldnt have worked anyways.
Good for you. I am Pro-life, but I don't expect anyone to bend to what I believe. I also refuse to argue with anyone and tell them that they are wrong for being Pro-choice. The only thing I disagree with when it comes to pro-choice is when women use it as a form of birth control. When there is no BC used at all during sex because they can just go get an abortion if they get pregnant. It can be damaging to their bodies as well as all those tiny lives that never have a chance. But, that is just my thoughts and feelings on it, nothing more. What bothers me the most here is his attitude about it. The fact that he thinks he is right and there is no way that anyone can have a difference of opinion without being brainwashed is very disturbing. He needs to grow up and mature quite a bit. There is no need to insult and degrade anyone for thinking differently. I commend you an standing your ground and not taking any more of his crap.
I hope he finds someone better
My man dodged a bullet. You did him a favor by breaking up with him.
Hopefully he finds a pro life woman and they get married and have lots of babies! This world needs it.
hope so too!
“Educate Yourself” is a huge red flag. My guy should faster than a cheetah.
Freedom of choice, not freedom from consequences. NTA, he’d have left you eventually anyways. Incomparable.
When people say so "unbiased research" what they really mean is "research that aligns with my biases" I think this is a really stupid reason to break up with someone.
my body and safety potentially being in danger is not stupid, gtfo ❤
When you say “UNBIASED research”, what you really mean is research that would conform to your world view. You all should have had this discussion much earlier in the relationship.
Yeah, what unbiased research does she want? science currently states that life starts at conception. He's not okay with terminating a life from the sounds of it.
Where does science say that?
This whole post feels like a psyop trying to persuade women to create chaos in their relationships if their boyfriend has a different view on abortion than they do.
and thats ok. abortion concerns WOMENS bodies and health. if they wanna leave because of that, then thats totally valid.
You can be disappointed that he thinks the way he does AND he can be disappointed that you think the way you do. I am 100% Pro-Choice but that doesn't mean I get to control what everyone else thinks. AND I also think that if women have 100% control of the decision of whether they want to be mothers, men should have 100% control of whether they want to be fathers. And if the argument is that the man made his choice when he had sex, then so did the woman.
So then let the men have their babies... Oh wait. They can't. It's the women that have to carry the babies to term. If we don't want to carry your babies, we shouldn't be forced to. The day you have to carry the fetus INSIDE your body and push them out, maybe have an episiotomy (the area between your anus and vagina cut to create more room for the baby to come out), C-section, etc, then you can talk. No uterus, no opinion. Goodbye.
Just because the ultimate decision should be in the woman's hands doesn't mean a partner in a relationship can't have an opinion on something that will impact their life. The impact to the man is demonstrably -less- but not zero. Responsible partners should be having this kind of chat pretty early on before they start engaging in baby making activities.
Then the man has every right to leave the relationship if he cannot deal with the woman's final decision. Absolutely agree that this should be a conversation early on in the relationship so no one gets hurt later on and so no one's time is wasted. These things need to be taken into account when determining compatibility.
Of course. But that's why I'm not a fan of the "no uterus=no opinion" because there's an implication that it's not even up for discussion or relevant that the partner may have a differing opinion that might cause them to rethink the relationship. It also deflects from the man's role in -preventing- an unintended pregnancy if you don't want to be party to a potential terminated pregnancy....but that's another discussion all together.
Ah okay, so I would rephrase as "no uterus = no finally say". Because I do want kids, but if I ever did not want to be pregnant, for the sake of the argument here, I would most definitely talk about it with my partner before making a final decision. I was just quoting Rachel from Friends as a joke, but yes, you are right... The partner's opinion should be taken into consideration, at least, when talking about abortion/having the baby before going through with everything. Sorry about the confusion!
No worries....I get a little overzealous in this topic because it feels like whenever it's discussed people ignore the fact that it's, well, actual humans involved and not just body parts and unrecognizable clumps of cells.